At 06:24 AM 5/15/98 PDT, you wrote:
>Uh-huh. It's time to move out of my apartment. Is the HP 3000 any
>good (in terms of how interesting it is)?
Is it any good? Wash your mouth out with soap! It is the best
minicomputer out there on the market, now or ever before. Don't let all
these east coast dec-heads fill your mind with nonsense... HP's will be
out there chugging along happily, long after the last DEC is dead and
buried. 8^)
Lessee... Some links for the HP3000... <http://www.3k.com/> is where I'd
go for shareware. <http://www.robelle.com/> makes the best editor out
there. <http://www.adager.com/> -- Alfredo Rego used to have a Series 1 up
and running. I'm sure there are more... Frank, you listening?
uh-oh, better go hide behind a pile of GRiD's... 8^)
P.S., my first computer (well, not *mine* exactly) was a PDP-11/70 running
RSTS/E (iirc). Damn fine machine, too.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
When did Intel (if ever) discontinue the 4000 series???
Ciao,
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 1:43 AM
Subject: RE: Intel 4004 architecture
>what was the difference between the 4004 and the 4040? Presumably the
><4040 was faster / more flexible, but was it a completely different
><architecture?
>
>Faster, larger register set and stack, increased instruction set fully
>compatable with 4004.
>
>Allison
>
-----Original Message-----
From: Huw Davies <H.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, 18 May 1998 11:58
Subject: Re: [Rare systems]
>At 01:14 PM 17-05-98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote:
>
>>Who ported UNIX to the Lisa? It wasn't Apple, was it? BTW, anybody know
>>which was the first UNIX port to a non-DEC machine?
>
>Probably the port done at Woollongong University to the Interdata x/32
>where x is some number I can't remember....
>
> Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au
> Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479
>1999
> La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
> Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"
>
email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au
desieh(a)bigfoot.com
museum_curator(a)hotmail.com
Apple Lisa Web Page:
http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm
I dont think anybody ported unix to the Lisa...well it wasnt a commerical
thing....
im not sure on this but if someone knows for sure ill like to hear from them
check out my Lisa web page......
Hello all,
"Computer Hobbyist" was a newsletter written in 1975-1976 by Hal Chamberlin
and others. Each issue was about 10 pages of small print. It had articles
like "Add a hardware stack to your 8008" which also appeared later in an
early BYTE magazine. I still have issues 5 to 10, I guess the last one. Does
anyone have access to issues 1 to 4 and would be
willing to copy them for me?
-Dave
You're right. But I say we're going to see a leaner, greener Microsoft. No
longer driven by it's NEED to have every piece of software for Windows only,
it will have ports of Word, Interent Explorer and other software for UN*X.
It's already started, with Internet Explorer for Solaris, and Netshow for
Linux. Internet Explorer is an ingenious program, and is very highly
customizable, which I like. Word is a pretty good word processor, when you
get down to it. But first, MS must get over it's neglect of it's s greatest
asset: It's customers. End-users, resellers, and other vendors.
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, May 18, 1998 9:19 PM
Subject: Historic Microsoft anti-trust happenings
>
>Hey, this whole deal with Microsoft and the government anti-trust lawsuit
>is pretty historic. Unless Microsoft all of a sudden decides to come back
>to the table (I think at this point the egos have bloated out so far that
>they are irreversibly colliding with one another) then it will be very
>interesting to see what comes of this. Ten years from now we'll be
>looking back, much like we did when they killed Ma Bell, and for better or
>worse, lamenting on the days when Microsoft was king.
>
>I think it went from interesting side note to full-blown event when
>Microsoft said "screw it" and decided to go ahead and ship Win98. That
>was a decidedly brash decision. It will be very fun to watch this unfold
>over the next few weeks.
>
>Take notes, all you amateur computer historians. This is the kind of
>stuff people always refer back to when discussing the politics of business
>and the forces that change industry.
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>Ever onward.
>
> September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
> [Last web page update: 05/11/98]
>
Just purchased a Xerox MemoryWriter 620. Anybody know how to work this
thing? I can get spaces, returns, and tabs to work, but when I try to
type any characters it just makes a grinding noise and beeps (regardless
of whether its set to printer or memory). Any ideas?
Thanks,
Tom Owad
<> Does anyone know anything about a TMS4060 RAM? Is it static or
<dynamic? I
<
<>From the TI 'Memory and Microprocessors Databook' 1976 :
<
<TMS4060 4096 bit Dynamic Random Access Memory.
<
<It's 4096 * 1bit, DRAM, either 300ns (plain), 250ns (-1) or 200ns (-2)
<access
<time.
<
<That part sounds familiar, either TI or MOSTEK was the second source?
<Wasn't it the DRAM used on the infamous MITS 4KB DRAM S-100 memory card?
<The one that never worked because they used a one-shot for the RAS-CAS
<timing. That was one collector item that should be put in a landfill.
< Jack peacock
It was used on the MITs 88-4mcd and S4k rams alone with I2107 or upd411.
The part didn't need ras/, cas/ as it was not muxed address. Your
confusing it with the 16pin muxed parts used in the TRS80.
Need some 4060s?
Allison
At 03:03 PM 17-05-98 -0400, William Donzelli wrote:
>> Really? I could've sworn that the operator's console on several
>> IBM machines was a modified Selectric.
>
>2740 and 2741 for the S/360s (found in *IBMs 360 and Early 370 Systems*, a
>must for every bookshelf, if you can find it).
Ah, the good old 2741. We had one here at La Trobe which had an 8080 based
interface so that it could talk (current loop?) to our DECsystem-10 at
134.7 baud. I understand the 134.7 baud rate is the fastest speed that you
can drive the Selectric mechanism before it flies apart :-)
Did my honors thesis on this back in 1977 using a typesetting program known
as Cicero running on the -10 written at ARL (Aeronautical Research Labs, in
Melbourne Australia). Used it again for version 1 of my M.Sc - it could do
golf ball changes to allow the pages of mathematical formulae to be
printed. From memory, a typical page took 10 minutes to print due to the
time wasted in golf ball changes. I keep trying to remember this when I
complain that the Xerox printer I now use prints about 10 double sided
pages a minute...
Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au
Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"
I recently obtained a Kaypro 2 from my great aunt, but it doesn't have
any floppies for booting.
It's also missing the cable to connect the keyboard to the main unit.
1. Can I just use a straight-through RJ11, 4 conductor wire for the
keyboard? It looks like this is
the case. (Same cable used for phones).
2. Does anyone have the images for the boot disk(s) or know where to
get them? I can rawrite them
to a SSDD disk once I have them.
3. A lot of the information on the OAK CP/M archive is in a .lbr or
.tzt format. Is there an application for
DOS or Unix to read these, and where would it be found?
Thanks for any help. I plan to use the Kaypro as a terminal via the
VT100 emulator. I'm reasonably
familiar (albeit, quite rusty) with CP/M.
-Nate
nlawson(a)scient.com
Relevant to the current lawsuit:
In "A Soul of a New Machine", the author mentions that IBM was pretty
much constantly in court at the time of Data General's beginnings.
Could someone please sum up what was happening at the time?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Thank you, I will try the drivers and tell you what happens.
What did the hitachi drives look like? Maybe it's actually the same
or almost the same thing
>as the Amdek Laserdrive-1)
>
>The interface was some proprietary subset of SCSI (parallel type). I
have
>some ancient device drivers if you want to screw around with them.
This is
>all 286/DOS3.3-era stuff.
>
>Kai
>
______________________________________________________
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Sounds like an OEM version of the Hitachi 1502/1503/2500 series (also sold
as the Amdek Laserdrive-1)
The interface was some proprietary subset of SCSI (parallel type). I have
some ancient device drivers if you want to screw around with them. This is
all 286/DOS3.3-era stuff.
Kai
You're right. 6-9 DO go to the DC37. The cable is pretty much
straight through. Any other hints you need?
>
>> OK, I finally brought the thing home.
>> The 37 pin connector is wired as follows:
>> Pins 1-17 are the only ones attached to something
>> It's fairly difficuly to trace, the traces keep switching
>> sides of the board and stuff...
>> 1-4 are wired to 2-5 of 74LS245, then go on to 2-5 of 74LS541
>
>Sounds like half of an 8-bit data bus. Where do 6-9 of the '245 go to?
>(the DC37 connector, I'll bet).
>
>How is the cable wired? In other words, where do these data pins end up
>on the drive end?
>
>> Some others as well, I'll give you the exact pins if you want.
>> The 8255-AC5 is mostly attached to the above-listed chips.
>>
>> The drive box is a DATEXT Model DTX-10, released April 1986.
>> Inside, it has the drive itself, and two 9" X 9" boards. The bottom
>> one seems to be simply hardware stuff - nothing but resistors,
>> amplifiers, etc. The top one is the one with the centronics
>> connector. It has 12 TC40H***P chips. Also, some 74LS***P chips.
>
>40Hxxxx are high speed 4000-series CMOS, I think, normally from
Toshiba.
>
>> Also, there are two huge chips, 60-pin or something. These are
>> HD61Z002 and HD63701XOP. All chips are Hitachi-labelled. There is
also
>
>I think the 63701 is a microcontroller of some kind. No idea on the
other
>one, alas.
>
>> a 34.5774 MHz crystal. Lastly, an EPROM w/the window covered over.
>> I hope it's OK that I lifted the tape. It's MBM2732A-30. The only
>
>That shouldn't have done it any harm, but keep sunlight off the chip
(at
>least unitl you've backed it up).
>
>-tony
>
>
______________________________________________________
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OK, I finally brought the thing home.
The 37 pin connector is wired as follows:
Pins 1-17 are the only ones attached to something
It's fairly difficuly to trace, the traces keep switching
sides of the board and stuff...
1-4 are wired to 2-5 of 74LS245, then go on to 2-5 of 74LS541
Some others as well, I'll give you the exact pins if you want.
The 8255-AC5 is mostly attached to the above-listed chips.
The drive box is a DATEXT Model DTX-10, released April 1986.
Inside, it has the drive itself, and two 9" X 9" boards. The bottom
one seems to be simply hardware stuff - nothing but resistors,
amplifiers, etc. The top one is the one with the centronics
connector. It has 12 TC40H***P chips. Also, some 74LS***P chips.
Also, there are two huge chips, 60-pin or something. These are
HD61Z002 and HD63701XOP. All chips are Hitachi-labelled. There is also
a 34.5774 MHz crystal. Lastly, an EPROM w/the window covered over.
I hope it's OK that I lifted the tape. It's MBM2732A-30. The only
big chip on the bottom board is an HA12049A. I hope this gives you
some idea. I have a VOM and a poorly working 'scope if you need
any of that to figure this out
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I just wanted to send the list a note, letting everyone know my
appreciation to Anthony Clifton (Wirehead) for a great transaction
this last weekend. He welcomed me into his home after 11:00pm while I
was passing through en route to Chicago (and Milwaukee and
Minneapolis!), for a great deal. I picked up TRS-80, Commodore, etc.,
hardware and software, many printers, and other goodies he threw in
for my efforts--- plus a great price.
If you have the chance to deal with Mr. Clifton, take it!
CORD G. COSLOR
--
____________________________________________________________
| Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\
| Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | |
| on AOL Instant Messenger: DeannaCord | |
| http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | |
|------------------------------------------------------------| |
| PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | |
|------------------------------------------------------------| |
| If you don't have AOL (like us) but want a great instant | |
| chat feature, just go to http://www.aol.com/aim | |
|____________________________________________________________| |
\_____________________________________________________________\|
OK, that's a new one on me...
What's a Kenback. (I hope it's not similar to a henweigh!)
Jon
>Does anyone here know if Spacewar was ever ported to the Kenback, Mark-8 or
Altair 8800? Any information on early games for these machines (even ports
of basic games like Advent) would be very enlightening...
>
>Many thanks,
>
>van
>........................................................................
>
> @
> /
> / Shift Lever
> (D)/
>\===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan ===
>BNL |- - -Phase Shifter- - - -|--/ Get Wired!
>- ------------]=[]@----------------------@ 415.276.4979
>Trans- ] ]](A) Toll Free 1.888.208.6655 (B) ? (C) Rear Connection
>mission ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
> ] ]]
>71 ------------] web superstation of the stars...
>van burnham http://www.futuraworld.com
>production manager
>wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united states
>........................................................................
>for immediate emergency wireless access send email to van-page(a)wired.com
>van(a)wired.com van(a)futuraworld.com pingpong(a)spy.net vanburnham(a)aol.com
>
>
-----Original Message-----
From: Max Eskin [SMTP:maxeskin@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 17, 1998 6:26 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: MIT flea
I only managed to go there for 50min. and only found out about a
west end when I left. It was cheaper than last time though. I bought
nothing. THe things I saw that were of interest, however:
A Xerox machine that looked like a PC clone, but the monitor plugged
into the system unit with a wide ribbon-like cable, very crude-
looking. What was this?
Sounds like an 820 or a 16/8; both of them have large flat ribbon cables that connect to the drive housing. The system unit is actually the monitor assembly, that's where the motherboard and memory is. The drives (rigid, floppy, or both) are housed in a separate unit with it's own power supply. If you think that vonnection looks crude, you ought to see how the centronic printer connector is hooked up....with the same flat ribbon cable and the user had to go inside the monitor housing to install it. Very crude indeed...not at all Plug and Play!!! Just as a matter of curiousity, how much were they asking for it?
Kirk Scott
scottk5(a)ibm.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, 17 May 1998 23:29
Subject: Re: North Star Horizon [Rare systems]
>> > > I'll have to finish that database. Oh yeah, just remembered the
Compal-80
>> > > (mid 70s S-100 box, very small, I'm sure some of the old hackers like
>> > > Allison have heard of it though).
>> >
>> > Sure! COMputer Power And Light.
>>
>> That's exactly right. An obscure (by today's standards for sure, but
>> don't know about back then...the references in the trade literature of
the
>> era are scarce) company that made S-100 boxes in the '75-'77(?)
timeframe.
>
>That's the wonderful thing about S-100 stuff; there were literally
>hundreds of small companies etching PC boards in the basement and
>selling them bare or with parts as kits. With this *huge* variety of
>boards available, what amazes me is that all the "serious collectors"
>and "serious museums" (where "serious"="have lots of money to spend")
>insist on pure Altair boardsets or pure IMSAI boardsets when I sell them
>restored machines.
>
>Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
>
email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au
desieh(a)bigfoot.com
museum_curator(a)hotmail.com
Apple Lisa Web Page:
http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm
this is getting abit of track here but nobody seems to mind:
well im in australia and ive got some mechines that i bet you guys have
never heard of:
LabTam 3000
(from around 1980, Z80, 8086, huge thing with 12" greeney 8", 5 1/4" hard
drive 5MB i think)
Dick Smith System 80
(TRS-80 model 1 clone)
UNIVAC
(CPM box, looks like a terminal)
OSI C4P
(looks like a SOL termianl computer, dont know anything else about it?
anybody else know anything about it??)
This is a TA79 HSC 9-track in a large wheeled rack. I am planning to
gut it and mount other stuff in the rack. But it's very clean, and the
guy I got it from swears it works fine. So, before I start yanking
everything out of it, I'll give anyone who wants to hook it up to their
VAX, a chance to come pick it up instead. Or if you think you can use
any of the removed pieces, let me know.
--
mor(a)crl.com
http://www.crl.com/~mor/tps/
Anyone know or has hacked NS* dosV5.2 single density for more than 35
tracks?
I'm considering using it with 80 track single sided drives if I can hack
all the locations that tell the dos max disk size. The idea of 200k on
current media with the older single density controller is appealing. The
alternate is to get the 2D controllers I have going (800k per drive is
better!). It would allow me to free up many of the SD/SS disks I have
rather than a search (or make) for new 10sector media.
Allison
On May 18, 0:16, Tony Duell wrote:
> I'd now like to ask a question in return. Can anyone provide me with the
> pinouts of the 8291/8292/8293 GPIB chips? Just a list of the 40 (or
> whatever) pins and their names. I don't seem to have them in any of my
> databooks, and I'm trying to sort out a unit which uses them
all Plug and Play!!! Just as a =
>matter of curiousity, how much were they asking for it?
It was sitting next to a sign that said "Free ! take this junk away!"
>Kirk Scott
>scottk5(a)ibm.net
>
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Which means?
>It is a CSU/DSU of some sort. I see the things quite a bit, still in
>service - there are still lots of 56K lines still in use, but one by
one
>they are being decommissioned.
>
>William Donzelli
>william(a)ans.net
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I saw a very cool thing today. I stopped off at a garage sale and found
some old computer books (a couple on UCSD Pascal, the p-system, a FORTH
book). The old lady tending the cash box said her husband had a big old
Apple that they wanted to get rid of. Thinking it just might be a Lisa I
followed up on this lead and went and got the old man. He took me to his
other house where he had it stored. It turned out it was an Apple ][+,
but it did have something cool about it. The old man told me that the ][+
was his son's and he used it when he was at Stanford. Around the time a
local bank was selling off a bunch of IBM Selectric typewriters that were
being used as computer printers. They had an external box which provided
the control mechanism for the computer. The son had a friend who was an
electronics wiz and so he built an interface card for the Apple to drive
the control box, thereby allowing the Apple to use the Selectric as a
printer. Pretty cool. I dug through his manuals and found the schemtic
for the adaptor card. I passed on it because I already had enough stuff
for the day and the beast isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I'll
probably go back for it someday (just the control box, the Selectric and
the interface card).
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 05/11/98]
On Sat, 16 May 1998 jpero(a)mail.cgo.wave.ca wrote:
> Did it have the battery at all?
No battery.
> first: hook up the voltmeter to the 74xxxx chip for 5v and ground.
I'm reading around 3.2V, which would make sense for a laptop.
> second: hook up that power jack with right size coaxial plug and to
> veriable regulated power supply at least 600mA limited
My variable regulated supply is in my other suit (I really do have one,
just not here), so I used a bunch of different wall warts instead (center-
negative isn't nearly as popular as center-postive, it seems).
> third: start at 6V and chank up in 1V steps until it starts to work
> properly especially for the display's crisp startup lamps.
Well, the good news is that there's no smoke. But I'm not getting any
lights either. I'll try to find a real power supply tomorrow and try
again.
Thanks for the help. My diagnostic skills are now floating above zero
thanks to you guys.
-- Doug
At 02:44 PM 17-05-98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote:
>On Sun, 17 May 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:
>
>> Bzzt. Unix was created in 1974 at Bell Labs on a PDP-7.
>
>Proof by assertion *and* buzzer is my favorite kind of proof. At least
>the guy that wrote the UNIX FAQ disagrees with you, but I'm sure your
>buzzer is bigger than his :-)
>
> http://www.ee.byu.edu/unix-faq/subsection3_8_2.html
Well I don't care how nicely formatted the page is, it's wrong. Unix was
definitely originally written in assembler for the PDP-7. I'm sure I've got
the reference at home.
Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au
Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"
what was the difference between the 4004 and the 4040? Presumably the
<4040 was faster / more flexible, but was it a completely different
<architecture?
Faster, larger register set and stack, increased instruction set fully
compatable with 4004.
Allison
hi all,
what was the difference between the 4004 and the 4040? Presumably the
4040 was faster / more flexible, but was it a completely different
architecture?
I remember seeing a fairly large box a few years back at my old college
in the electronics department labelled either "4004 CPUs" or "4004 CPUs"
- I really can't remember which but maybe there are still a few 4004's
out there!!
cheers
Jules
>
>
<So Intel's web site labels it as 108Khz, just as the 8008. See, the 800
<(from what I gather) was really a modified (although greatly modified) 40
<designed to accept data/characters, not numerical data.
That's like saying a Lotus Elan is a Model A with a smoother ride and
faster.
First the 8008 clock is 500khz for the slow 20us part the faster 12.5us
part was 800khz. Source is my 25 year old copy of the 8008 8 bit parallel
central procrossor unit users manual and my hand written notes from then.
I also have my listing and the printset for that project still.
Also if anything modified was not even a close term as the number and
organization of registers were considerably different from the 4004
though in some respects the overall organization was similar. At the
time IC designs like that were literally drawn on the wall and
photographed down to die size. It did however embody a 8bit data path
rather than 4. The bigger difference was the instruction set was larger
and more general than the 4004. The 4004 could process characters, it
was awkard due to the narrow data path and limited instruction set.
Allison
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, 17 May 1998 15:13
Subject: IBM Selectric used as printer on Apple ][+
>
>I saw a very cool thing today. I stopped off at a garage sale and found
>some old computer books (a couple on UCSD Pascal, the p-system, a FORTH
>book). The old lady tending the cash box said her husband had a big old
>Apple that they wanted to get rid of. Thinking it just might be a Lisa I
>followed up on this lead and went and got the old man. He took me to his
>other house where he had it stored. It turned out it was an Apple ][+,
>but it did have something cool about it. The old man told me that the ][+
>was his son's and he used it when he was at Stanford. Around the time a
>local bank was selling off a bunch of IBM Selectric typewriters that were
>being used as computer printers. They had an external box which provided
>the control mechanism for the computer. The son had a friend who was an
>electronics wiz and so he built an interface card for the Apple to drive
>the control box, thereby allowing the Apple to use the Selectric as a
>printer. Pretty cool. I dug through his manuals and found the schemtic
>for the adaptor card. I passed on it because I already had enough stuff
>for the day and the beast isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I'll
>probably go back for it someday (just the control box, the Selectric and
>the interface card).
>
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>Ever onward.
>
> September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
> [Last web page update: 05/11/98]
>
email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au
desieh(a)bigfoot.com
museum_curator(a)hotmail.com
Apple Lisa Web Page:
http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm
yes in the early 1980s this modifacation was quite popular because the price
of printers was ofthen cost more than the
computer itself. these was also one where it fit over the keys of the
typewritier and had a interface card and it pushed the keys
when somthing was menat to be printed.....
cool eh?
At 10:23 PM 5/17/98 -0400, you wrote:
>> I have a guy who's looking for a 3330-011 so he can dump a diskpack. Anyone
>> have a spare they want to get rid of, or do you have one running so he can
>> get the data off?
>
>Hmmm...I think he is in for a bit of a disappointment, as those drives
>date back to 1970 or so. I really doubt there are any left doing work, or
>even having the potential to do work.
Knowing who this fellow is, this is probably a Y2K project, believe it or
not. I guess the company's drive finally gave up the ghost and they're in a
panic, or something like that.
>
>I do remember seeing a 400 meg 3330 in a junk yard two years ago. It was
>pretty well trashed, and the ton plus beast would not fit in my Escort.
Yeah, they just don't build cars the way they used to, do they. <g>
>
>Trivia: the 3330 "Merlin" was the first production drive to have servo
>tracks.
>
>William Donzelli
>william(a)ans.net
>
>
--
David Wollmann
dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com
Bill Pechter <pechter(a)shell.monmouth.com> wrote:
> Actually there was the 8/32 port done and a 7/32 port done. The 8/32
> was (I think, the AT&T port) the 7/32 was done by Wollongong and later
> migrated into Perkin-Elmer's Edition VII.
Another part of that intro I never wrote: I work for The Wollongong
Group, or what's left of it -- it was bought by Attachmate a couple of
years ago, and the office at 1129 San Antonio Road is a lot smaller
than it used to be.
I started working there in 1989. The "Perkin-Ernie" was gone by that
time. None of the old-timers still remaining ever called it an
Interdata in front of me, always "the Perkin-Elmer" or "Perkin-Ernie".
So I don't know a lot about it, just have the impression that it was
a lot like V7 and worked pretty well 'til near the end.
As I understand the early years of TWG, they got the rights to
commercially develop the Unix port done at the University of
Wollongong and turned it into the Edition VII product, and I think
TWG sold it under the Edition VII name.
Anyone care to clue me in on what I missed?
-Frank McConnell
So Intel's web site labels it as 108Khz, just as the 8008. See, the 8008
(from what I gather) was really a modified (although greatly modified) 4004
designed to accept data/characters, not numerical data.
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, May 18, 1998 3:35 AM
Subject: Re: Clock speed of the 4004?
>>
>>
>> Anyone know what the clock speed of the 4004 is? Courson's web page
>> mentions it not.
>
>I knew I'd kept that 1977 Intel databook for a good reason :-)...
>
>OK... define clock speed :-)
>The instruction cycle is claimed to be 10.8 us. That consists of 8 clock
>cycles, each of 1.35us minimum, 2us maximum. But conventionally the clock
>was sourced from a 4201A clock generator that divided an external xtal by
>either 7 or 8. Common crystals were either 4MHz divided by 8 (giving the
>2us cycle time, 16us instruction) or 5.185MHz divided by 7 (giving 1.35us
>clock cycle, 10.8us instruction).
>
>For real Intel trivia collectors, Intel even listed a 5.185 MHz crystal
>under the part number 4801 for this chipset.
>
>Incidentally, this data book lists the following parts in the MCS-40
>family :
>
>4040 4-bit microprocessor
>4004 4-bit microprocessor
>4003 10-bit shift register
>4265 Programmable general-purpose I/O
>4269 Programmable keyboard/display interface
>4201A Clock generator
>40008/4009 Standard memory interface component pair
>4289 Standard memory interface
>4002 320 bit RAM, 4 I/O lines
>4001 256*8 ROM, 4 I/O lines
>4308 1024*8 ROM, 16 I/O lines
>4316 2048*8 ROM
>4702A 256*8 EPROM
>4801 Clock crystal
>
>I'd now like to ask a question in return. Can anyone provide me with the
>pinouts of the 8291/8292/8293 GPIB chips? Just a list of the 40 (or
>whatever) pins and their names. I don't seem to have them in any of my
>databooks, and I'm trying to sort out a unit which uses them
>
>>
>>
>> Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>
>-tony
>
At 03:53 PM 17-05-98 -0400, William Donzelli wrote:
>> Here's a quick unix timeline:
>
>Does anyone know of the oldest surviving version of Unix that is still
>running? Sure, there may be tapes for the PDP-7 version floating aroung
>somewhere, but I do not think there are any working PDP-7s around!
I'm not sure of the current status but the PDP-7 in the Digital Australia
museum was being worked on to see if it could be made to fly again. Any
Aussies with more recent information?
Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au
Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"
<>Proof by assertion *and* buzzer is my favorite kind of proof. At least
<>the guy that wrote the UNIX FAQ disagrees with you, but I'm sure your
<>buzzer is bigger than his :-)
<>
<> http://www.ee.byu.edu/unix-faq/subsection3_8_2.html
<
<Well I don't care how nicely formatted the page is, it's wrong. Unix was
<definitely originally written in assembler for the PDP-7. I'm sure I've g
<the reference at home.
The PDP-7 was the starting point. The OS was the base unix written in
PDP-7 asm, all versions later would originate from the first C version on
PDP-11. The C version is from my understanding the first unix and C are
synonomus with PDP-11 as before that was B, BCPL and the rudiments of
unix OS on the PDP-7. It would take the PDP-11 arachecture to pull
that all together.
Allison
I have a guy who's looking for a 3330-011 so he can dump a diskpack. Anyone
have a spare they want to get rid of, or do you have one running so he can
get the data off?
Thanks
--
David Wollmann
dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com
At 01:14 PM 17-05-98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote:
>Who ported UNIX to the Lisa? It wasn't Apple, was it? BTW, anybody know
>which was the first UNIX port to a non-DEC machine?
Probably the port done at Woollongong University to the Interdata x/32
where x is some number I can't remember....
Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au
Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"
I'm looking for printset (or copy)for DECMATEIII so I can do my own
periherals. I have most of the stuff from the net in the way of specs
and docs, what I need is a schematic.
Allison
On May 17, 13:09, Seth J. Morabito wrote:
> I have a silly question -- has anyone gotten a PDP-11 emulator (Bob
> Supnik's emulator, in my case) to run the distribution of 2.9BSD UNIX
> that can be had from sunsite.unc.edu?
>
> Personally, I haven't successfully gotten either to boot. I made a
> bootable tape by dd'ing together the tape images as per the instructions,
> but it doesn't boot. Neither does the RL02 image. They both hang
> somewhere during the booting process and get stuck in an infinite (or
> nearly infinite, at least) loop.
Do they really hang, or just sit waiting? I've never used 2.9, but 2.11
normally waits for you to type CTRL-D at a critical point. 7th Edition
just prints an "@" prompt from a hardware boot, and waits for you to type
"boot" (which gives you a "Boot:" prompt, to which you'd normally respond
"rl(0,0)unix").
Does 2.9BSD really fit on an RL02?
If they really do hang, it's possible you've run foul of a bug in the
emulator - older versions have a bug in the floating point, though I'd be
surprised if that affected booting.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
Anyone know what the clock speed of the 4004 is? Courson's web page
mentions it not.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 05/11/98]
<which was the first UNIX port to a non-DEC machine? I seem to recall bot
<UNIX and C were spawned around 1968 or so, but the first UNIX micro
By 1978 it had been ported to Interdata 8/32, Honeywell 6000 and IBM
System/370. This information was obtained from the preface of
"The C programming language" Kernighan and Ritchie.
There is no question in my mind that Unix (and flavors) is the most widely
ported(to different platforms) OS of them all. CPM is likely a close
second as most widely implemented on platforms with similar CPU but often
radically different IO. The reason I added this is like unix, CPM ran on
8080 (z80, z180, z280, NSC800), 8086 (8088, 80186...) and 68000. UCSD
Pascal P-system is the only other that was ported to non similar CPUs
like 8080/z80, PDP-11, 6502 (Apple][), wd microengine.
Allison
<Does anyone here know if <italic>Spacewar</italic> was ever ported to
<the Kenback, Mark-8 or Altair 8800? Any information on early games for
<these machines (even ports of basic games like Advent) would be very
<enlightening...
Can't speak for the other systems but, space war, lunar lander, TREK
(aka startrek), Adventure were all run on the s100 8080 systems that
include the altair.
I have a box of 8" media (CPM) with adventure, zork(I,II, III) and at
least 30 other titles maybe more.
Allison
<> PDP11/74,
<
<Did DEC ever market these, or were they (all four of them, or
<whatever) just a last ditch effort to save the PDP-11/70 line?
No, never marketed. Accoring to some they were built with existing
parts. It was not persued because it would eclipse the vax and the
11/70 design was not emi/rfi complient and would be very difficult to
make it so. At the time the 16 bit mini market was seen to be getting
smaller in favor of the 32bit superminis.
<Certainly, although the PDP-12s might be close to being kicked off the
<"very rare" list. I hesitate to add the KS-10s, as I think there are
<probably more of them hidden away (or maybe actually doing work!) than w
<think.
When you consider there were no more than a 1000 of either that's pretty
scarce if 1-2% still survive.
Allison
<Anyone know what the clock speed of the 4004 is? Courson's web page
<mentions it not.
I'd guess around 500khz (typical for silicone gate Pmos) but the published
instruction cycle time is 10.8uS(likely a trivial register move). It took
something like 4-5 clock cycles to get an instruction cycle minimum as
address (4bits at a time were output) and instruction was input the same
way. Instruction could and did take several cycles so this CPU was NOT
fast. ;)
Allison
<I bet it made some of the Big Blue types sick!
Why? There was a version of the selectric design and used as a keyboard
printer. I've seen them on tandy, NS* and others with both serial and
parallel ports. Duratec was one company selling them configured that way.
The serial ones used 134.5baud! Not only did they print well and reliably
they had different typeballs. As printers went they were fairly quiet
too.
Allison
That's exactly right. An obscure (by today's standards for sure, but
<don't know about back then...the references in the trade literature of th
<era are scarce) company that made S-100 boxes in the '75-'77(?) timeframe
<The one I have is very small, measuring about 12" wide x 5" high by 18"
<deep. It has a small, 4-slot backplane and a power supply, with not muc
<room left over internally for much else.
Nice boxen, then had others in the line. The small 4-5slot was used for
the POLY-88 a real small s100 system. I wouldn't mind finding a 4-5 slot
box as I could put a fully complete system in that (z80, 64kram, FDC,
4port serial).
Allison
