- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

Haven't had all that much thrifting lately so I have been pretty quiet. I just wanted to post about my jaunt to San Jose last weekend (for those of you not familiar with the region it is pretty much the center of what they call Silicon Valley). First off for those of you who live in the area, you guys drive like maniacs, you know there things called 'speed limits' and many cars are equipped with a 'turn signal' to signal switching lanes. Ok back on topic (if this were very much on topic), while my wife attended the 'Rubberama Rubber Stamp Show' I had the opportunity to check out 'theTech Museum of Innovation' It was very facinating obviously it has been supported by Intel with a mock-up clean room displaying the processes of making chips with examples, machine displays and videos. (you can even buy shiny 'bunny-suit' dolls in the gift shop) Also there was a rather interesting section on robotics, some on recycling, and a section devoted to space exploration but save for a few snapshots (of Woz's workbench and HP's garage) there was not any classic computers to be seen *sigh*. Oh and an internet/computer instruction center too, but I didn't spend much time there. The said some of the exhibits are on the new building (scheduled to be opened October 31st) so if you are thinking of visiting in the future you may want to wait. I did pick up an interesting souviner, a small hunk of processed silicon (looks like leftovers from the vats where they form the ingots). I only bought one and now think I sould have stocked up - for stocking stuffers and the like (Hey, if any of you volunteer there or go by the museum, could I get you to purchase some more for me? please???) So six bucks gets you adult admission. If you are interested in the chip manufacturing process and want to see some robots and stuff I think it's worth the money (and if you are too cheap for $6.00 at least you can see the billiard ball display just outside the entrance.) Oh, here's the web address for more details on the place: http://www.thetech.org/ -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 2 months

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Microprocessors and who made them?

by dastar＠wco.com

Is there a reference somewhere listing all the different microprocessors ever made and who the designers were? Preferrably such a list would include a way (or hint of a way) to contact the designer of said microprocessor. Thanks! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/30/98]

28 years, 2 months

4
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What is it called when the 60hz line power becomes something else?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<What do you believe the frequency changed to ? (nominal 60Hz, right. <Well, anything from 50Hz to 70Hz (say) would be no problem at all). Id sueggest if you average 0hz(no power!) and 60 hs you may get someting inbetween. However the 0hz state must not exceed 8-10 cycles or you will no question get power fail. ;) Likely the power supplies dropped out whe the line voltage got below 88v. Most of those supplies will regulate down to that. However if there is also a dropout at 88V it will stop regulating as there will not be enough stored energy in the caps to hold it up. FYI: 400hz not only gets you smaller transformers it also reduces the size of the filter caps needed to remove the ripple from the rectifiers. The size and weight difference is significant when you combine the two. Allison

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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What is it called when the 60hz line power becomes something else?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Ours did that Friday, and the servers aren't happy with it. I'm heading in now to clean the mess up. Just out of curiosity, is there an actual term for this? Does it sounds like BS? And, what do you think it did to the MicroVAXen... We were told this was what had happened by the power company, does it sound like BS or what? -------

28 years, 2 months

6
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Final Xerox Star demo

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

What processor did it use? Also, what will be done to the machine after the "last run"? >On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Larry Groebe wrote: > >> >Is there someone to contact by phone to see if there will be videotapes >> >available? >> > >> >thanks >> > >> >Kai >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] >> >Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 3:17 PM >> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> >Subject: Final Xerox Star demo >> > >> > >> >>Xerox PARC is giving one final demonstration of the original Xerox Star >> >>workstation built in 1981. This may be the last time it gets >> >>demoed, as the hardware has begun failing due to its age. Don't miss >> >>this opportunity to witness one of the most important steps ever taken in >> >>the history of computing and user interface design. >> >> >> Better yet, has anyone given thought to the viability of building a Star >> emulator? How fast could those things have been? > >Not terribly. IIRC, there was a discernable lag between keystroke and >the appearance of the character on the monitor screen! > > - don >> --Larry >> > > donm(a)cts.com >*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives > Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society > Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. > Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 >*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* > see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj > visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm > with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

2
1
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RL02 Me 2

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Well, since we have raised the topic of RL02... I have a pair that I (for some reason) would like to have hanging on my freshly-undead 11/34. I have the RL11 (M7762) and two 02s, whose 'READY' lites have '0' and '1' respectively. I have no other docs or info presently. [NOTE I would love to purchase / pay for copying / trade for these docs] I have put the controller in place of a bus grant cardlet, and have the cables properly done and the terminator on drive '1'. I have a disk pack marked RT-ll V5 that was in drive 0 when I got them, and all the hardware came as a (once working) set. I have the old 9301 boot card in now... I have a 9312 that came with the RL02 system but it causes the 11/34 to hang on power-up. From posts addressed to Zane.. I think that I have controller issues... and I certainly have no idea how to place/configure the RL11.. but at least the Magic Smoke is staying in the ICs where it belongs. *********************** Second question: I have several RT-11 disks for the RK05... they *all* boot from ODT (via the 'DK' command) but once KMON is active it gets autistic... the dot prompt appears, but any and all commands elicit the ?ILL CMD? response.... and that's it. It does this with each and every one (6 discs so far) I have the docs for RT-11 V2, and the Quick Reference booklets... and a working 11/73 with V5 on it.. so I'm a little familiar with RT-11. Does this above behavior point to anything stupid I'm doing, or......? And to think: I gave up Volunteer Bomb Disposal for this...... Cheers John

28 years, 2 months

2
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Final Xerox Star demo

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

>Is there someone to contact by phone to see if there will be videotapes >available? > >thanks > >Kai > >-----Original Message----- >From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] >Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 3:17 PM >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >Subject: Final Xerox Star demo > > >>Xerox PARC is giving one final demonstration of the original Xerox Star >>workstation built in 1981. This may be the last time it gets >>demoed, as the hardware has begun failing due to its age. Don't miss >>this opportunity to witness one of the most important steps ever taken in >>the history of computing and user interface design. Better yet, has anyone given thought to the viability of building a Star emulator? How fast could those things have been? --Larry

28 years, 2 months

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Final Xerox Star demo

by engine＠chac.org

At 15:28 6/1/98 -0700, you wrote: >Is there someone to contact by phone to see if there will be videotapes >available? Me too please? I'll be in New York on the 17th.... __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 2 months

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Books

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Sun, 31 May 1998 09:39:22 -0500, John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> wrote: >>I think Gates & Allen's first "company" was "Traf-o-data", run on >>someone else's PDP equipment. I recall it was analyzing traffic >>data. I only remember because about the same time, I was doing >>nearly the same thing as my Eagle Scout project, summarizing >>traffic and accident data for a city. Gates and Foust, the >>ominous parallels, oh yeah. :-) I thought that it was a custom piece of hardware that they used. Maybe that was the front-end. The book "Gates" is in the attic;I'll have to get it. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking Collector of classic computers <<<========== Reply Separator ==========>>>

28 years, 2 months

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Final Xerox Star demo

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

| -----Original Message----- | From: Larry Groebe [mailto:lgroebe@insidermarketing.com] | Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 3:34 PM | To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers | Subject: Re: Final Xerox Star demo | | Better yet, has anyone given thought to the viability of building a Star | emulator? I've got one! It's called an "Apple Lisa" :) Kai

28 years, 2 months

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Final Xerox Star demo

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Is there someone to contact by phone to see if there will be videotapes available? thanks Kai -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 3:17 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Final Xerox Star demo >Xerox PARC is giving one final demonstration of the original Xerox Star >workstation built in 1981. This may be the last time it gets >demoed, as the hardware has begun failing due to its age. Don't miss >this opportunity to witness one of the most important steps ever taken in the >history of computing and user interface design. > > Final Demo of the Xerox Star Workstation > 5:30 to 7:00pm > Wednesday June 17th > Auditorium Xerox PARC > > > Unquestionably, one of the major design innovations of this century >has been the Graphical User Interface, with its desktop, icons, pop-up >and pull-down menus and ubiquitous windows. The explosion of computer usage >in the last decade has in large part been made possible through this simpler >and more direct method of user interaction. > > Though millions of people around the world are now using GUIs, few >outside of the Human/Computer Interaction field or the Silicon Valley >are aware of the history of the its design prior to the introduction >of the Macintosh in 1984. > > The first GUI ever developed was the work of Dr. Douglas Englebart, >a researcher at SRI (the Stanford Research Institute in Menlo Park, CA) in the >mid-1960s. His visionary and pioneering design and prototypes succeeded in >producing the world's first screen-based windows, cursor-selectable pop-up >menus, as well as the mouse with which to interact with them. > > Though these innovations were truly revolutionary, it was not until >a decade later when researchers at the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) >began systematically studying this system in a commericial development effort. >The Xerox Alto personal computer workstation was developed in the late 70's >and included a mouse pointing system. This system influenced later systems >such as Bravo, which was developed at Xerox PARC by Bruce Lampson and included >an integrated editor formatter. Later systems included Markup, Draw, and Star. > > Xerox Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) has been a cradle of Silicon >Valley innovation for 25 years. Its research spans domains from atoms >to anthropology, from its solid-state physics lab, which develops new >laser diodes for use in printers and copiers, to the group that studies >work practices and their possible impact on current and future products. > > Located in the Stanford University Industrial Park in the heart of >Silicon Valley, PARC was charged upon its founding in 1970 to the >"architect of the information age". Since then it has delivered into >use such significant pieces of the current information infrastructure >as laser printers, graphical user interfaces, object-oriented >programming languages, and Ethernet local area networks. PARC has >contributed to user interfaces, electronic components, embedded >software and architectures for each new line of Xerox copiers, >printers, and systems reprographics products. > > > > Directions to Xerox PARC > >>From Highway 101, take the Oregon Expressway exit west 2 miles to >El Camino Real. Oregon Expressway becomes Page Mill Road at El Camino. Follow >Page Mill Road 1.7 miles to Coyote Hill Road (no light) and turn left. Coyote >Hill Road is just past the intersection with >Foothill Expressway. Go one-half mile and PARC will be on your left. >Follow the signs to the auditorium. > >>From Interstate 280, take the Page Mill Road exit. Go east one mile >to Coyote Hill Road (no light) and turn right. Go one-half mile and >PARC will be on your left. Follow the signs to the auditorium.

28 years, 2 months

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What is it called when the 60hz line power becomes something else?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Who exactly decided that there was a frequency change? It seems strange that they could have known if there are no monitors to check and this is not a central problem. Of course, if this was a resonant transformer and the guy shorted it, or he hooked the transformer to a portable generator that the construction company was using, or he temporarily powered it with a solenoid using a jackhammer for a slug... >> Who knows hertz and 60 volts. A serviceman across the hall did something > >Let me guess. 60Hz and 60V. It's very difficult (I'd say impossible, but >then somebody will find a way !) to change mains frequency by miswiring a >transformer. Voltage, sure. > >Actually, I do have a device somewhere that provides the 25Hz for UK >telephone bells from the AC mains. It contains a transformer with a >winding resonated to 25Hz by a capacitor. And it's 'kicked' into >oscillations by a 50Hz mains winding on the same core. But that's hardly >the sort of thing you can make 'by accident'. > >> [When you get to the machine room, power line monitors etc.] >> Don't make me laugh! Our machine room is a closet. > >That doesn't prevent you having power line monitors. > >> Oh, and who uses 400hz for line frequency? > >I've seen it used on aircraft equipment (small, light transformers and >smoothing caps). Didn't IBM use it on some mainframes/minis? > >> >> I am officially here, by the way. CILCO is still yelling at A&B Construction >> (Or whomever they were...) and my boss wants to go help. The machines >> seemed to care more about halving the line voltage (Which I wasn't told > >Oh, indeed. Halving the line voltage will cause all sorts of problems. >Few power supplies can cope with that and give the rated outputs. > >> about) than the frequency change... >> ------- >> > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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IBM stuff

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

And then WYSE can post their patents and try to sue them both! > >John, > > Hey, that really looks great! I heard a while back that IBM was going to >post all of their patents on the net. Now if HP will just do the same! > > Joe > >At 07:56 PM 5/31/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Hey Joe, >>Check this out!! I was looking for an IBM web site that might have your >>SCSI drive infomation on it when I stumbled upon this!! Boy...it's been a >>long time since I thought about this stuff!! >> >>http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4541168 >> >>John >> > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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Spring CP/M-UG N.W. Swap Meet this Saturday

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

For those in the N.W. Oregon / S.W. Washington area (or those inclined to drive a bit) B^} The 'n'th Annual Spring edition of the CP/M-UG Swap Meet will occur on Saturday June 6th, on Rose Festival Parade day just as always. It will be held in the lower level of the Senior Citizens Center on Omera, just south of the Tigard (Oregon) City Hall on Hall Blvd. (not too hard to reach from I-5 or Hwy-217) As always, it's Free, Easy, and Non-Fattening! (except perhaps to your wallet or garage, depening on your approach!) Bring your Junk, your Treasures, and your Wallet! The only rule is... Leave Nothing Behind! (NO garbage service!) Address: 8815 S.W. Omera (Just south of Fanno Creek on Hall Blvd.) Tigard, OR. Hours: 0800 to 1500 or whenever the good stuff runs out! (8am to 3pm for the layfolk) Fees: No charge! (we pass the hat for contributions) NOTE: Tailgating is encouraged! Some of the best deals are made in the parking lot! (before, during, and after!) See you there! --- For additional details, (directions, etc.) call Gary @ Oregon Electronics (503) 293-5293 or drop me a e-mail. -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

28 years, 2 months

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RL-02 Question

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

In the pile of stuff I got yesterday was an RL-02 and a Q-Bus controller for it. I've placed the Q-Bus controller in one of my SMS-1000's (PDP-11/73), and am trying to get the drive to spin up. Looking through my archives of the mailing list, it looks like the drive itself is fine. I think my problem is on the PDP end. The motor spins for about 15 seconds, I hear the click, but the fault light stays on. I've reversed the way I've got the cable plugged into the board, but still know luck. I suspect my problem is that the SMS-1000 doesn't support RL-02's. The Boot ROM's seem to be built into the beast, and I suspect it only supports Hard Drives (DU), TK50's and floppies. I guess my next project is to try and attach a TK-50 to the machine, as I got a small stack of TK50's with the stuff yesterday, and it looks like they've got TSX-11-something on them. Do PDP-11's have the VAX equivalent of Standalone Backup? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 2 months

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Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, 26 May 1998 22:27 Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old >At 06:44 PM 5/26/98 +1000, you wrote: >> >> >>I have one question , well I actually have two...... >>though, what software came on cassetes? >>and what is the most common fault in the IBM full height floppy drives that >>makes them die??? >> > I dunno about the FH drives. I've never seen one die! They seem to >last forever! > > Joe > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm oh well with my 5150 it has two FH IBM drives in i and they both seem to be dead, Ive replaced the controllor card check the dips, checked power output, it seems here in Austrlaia these drives are almost impossable to get a hold of......

28 years, 2 months

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What is it called when the 60hz line power becomes something else?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 1, 10:52, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > Oh, and who uses 400hz for line frequency? > > Common AC distribution voltage on aircraft and other weight-is-important > vehicles. And on some IBM mainframes, I believe. A friend of mine obtained a 360, and was most upset when the previous owner decided to keep the 50Hz-to-400Hz converters. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 2 months

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RL-02 Question

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 1, 7:41, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > Even then, it only does 18-bit DMA, so whether it's useful depends on the > > O/S -- RSX11 and Unix manage fine > > Really? Which version RSX11M? Which Unix? Certainly the recent versions > of 11M+, as well as 2.10 and 2.11BSD, will crash very badly if you use > them on a system with more than 124 kWords of memory and a RLV11. My RSX11M 3.2 and 4.1 manage fine. AFAIR, it's supported -- it's certainly in the manual somewhere. The driver understands that it has to be careful about using the bottom 124K words for disk access. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 2 months

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EC-1 (was Re: Re[2]: Computer Values)

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 09:23 PM 5/29/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 29 May 1998, Shawn Rutledge wrote: > >> FWIW, the company that currently sells Heathkit manual reprints doesn't >> look too kindly on people publishing web manuals from what I've heard. >> I'd sure like to publish my stash too if I could do so without getting sued. > >Hmm, I know that any patents associated with the EC-1 have expired by >now, but I don't recall how long a copyright lasts (more than 38 years, I >suspect). Yes, but are they still valid if the owner is out of business? I know the HK manuals are WIDELY copied and the copies sold. So are Tektronix, HP and a lot of others, and they're still in business! Joe > >-- Doug > >

28 years, 2 months

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RL-02 proves me an Idiot!

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

Well, I've got my RL-02 on the /73 working. The cable on the back had the locking key in the unlocked position. Arrrgggghhhhh, it took me a day to figure that one out! Lesson learned, visual inspections just don't cut it! Of course I don't seem to have Boot ROM's in the SMS-1000 that support the RL-02. I tell it to boot dl0: and it tells me it's an illegal device. Yet the RSX11M boot tape tells me that's the device name. I still haven't been able to figure out what they guy I got this stuff off of could have been using to boot it. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 2 months

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RL-02 Question

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 31, 20:53, Tony Duell wrote: > And I'm not sure if the RLV11 works in 22 bit addressing systems (Tim? > Allison?) I've only got 18 bit addressing CPUs here. It will work in a Q22 backplane providing you remove two links, which otherwise cause the RLV11 to use BC1/BD1 for "other than BDAL18/19". It has to be a straight backplane, with CD-interconnect, of course. Even then, it only does 18-bit DMA, so whether it's useful depends on the O/S -- RSX11 and Unix manage fine, but I don't know about RT-11. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 2 months

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Anyone have a TS-11 bootstrap?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I'll be needing this soon... -------

28 years, 2 months

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New stuff, new questions

by dastar＠wco.com

I picked up some odd-balls recently. One item is called a Disk Storage Drive Diagnostic Unit made by a company called Information Storage Systems, Inc. Another unit I saw had a Sperry-Univac label on it. It's obvious what it is, but for what drives? The manual says Model 714 and 715 disk storage drives, but is that hard or floppy? I can't tell from the unit, although my guess would be hard disk. Anyone ever used, let alone heard, of one of these? I also got another, older model, but didn't get a manual with it. (You can find more of these at Mike Quinn Electronics in case you're interested). I also picked up a Standard Engineering Corporation Word Generator (WGR-241). It looks like it is a PDP-11 card, but I'm not totally sure (its got the big horse-teeth edge connector). On the front is 24 SPST switches, I guess for setting a 24-bit word. Any clues? I also got a TI program recorder (for the TI 99/4a) and a couple AtariLab software packages (starter set and Light module), which were little physical sciences experimenter kits for the Atari 400/800. They come with a carthridge for the program, and each one has a different set of sensors that plug into the computer. The start kit has a module that connects to the joystick port, and the other kits' sensors plug into this module so you can get simultaneous readings from different sensors I suppose. The starter kit had a letter in it addressed from one of the design staff thanking whoever recieved the package for their help in bringing the product to market. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/30/98]

28 years, 2 months

3
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IBM patents

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hey take a look at this "http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4541168". I wish the other computer companies would do this! Joe

28 years, 2 months

1
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IBM stuff

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

John, Hey, that really looks great! I heard a while back that IBM was going to post all of their patents on the net. Now if HP will just do the same! Joe At 07:56 PM 5/31/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hey Joe, >Check this out!! I was looking for an IBM web site that might have your >SCSI drive infomation on it when I stumbled upon this!! Boy...it's been a >long time since I thought about this stuff!! > >http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4541168 > >John >

28 years, 2 months

1
0
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RL-02 Question

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<And I'm not sure if the RLV11 works in 22 bit addressing systems (Tim? <Allison?) I've only got 18 bit addressing CPUs here. The RLV11 is not q22 and MUST have a Q/CD backplane. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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Q-Bus PDP-11 RAM Board

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

I got a non-DEC PDP-11/73 today minus the CPU (not a big deal, I saw the CPU that had been in it, and I've got two of them). Anyway I've managed to identify all of the haul of boards, except the RAM boards. I was told they are 2Mb boards but the person wasn't sure. Also I'm wondering if anyone has the switch settings for them. The board in question is labled: NSC NS23D It also has three jumpers near the contacts. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 2 months

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RSX-11M Questions.

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

I'd just like to say... THE /73 BOOTS FROM TAPE!!! On the downside, I haven't any idea what to do. I was able to get 7 RL-02 packs, some of which are supposedly bootable, and a stack of TK-50's yesterday, but the documentation had been trashed. :^( He still had the binders, and there must have been 3-4 feet of docs at one time :^( So bear with me, I've not got any documentation (donations gladly accepted :^) The tape boots up to the following: ------- RSX-11M/RSX-11M-PLUS Standalone Copy System V03 RSX-11M/RSX-11M-PLUS Standalone Configuration and Disk Sizing Program Valid Switches are: /CSR=nnnnnn to change the default CSR /VEC=nnn to change the default device vector /FOR=n to change the default magtape formatter number /DEV to list all default device CSR and vectors Enter first device: ------- I went ahead and told it /DEV and it printed out a list of different devices stating what was present. It sees my Hard Drive and the TK50. The question is, what is this, and what do I do? I just tried entering 'DU0:' and it took that, but that seems to be the limit of my ability to fathom it out. BTW I pulled the RL-02 controller out that I was asking about earlier for this. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 2 months

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Pansonic Sr. Partner FS

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

FOR SALE Panasonic Sr. Partner XT (8088) class "portable" computer. Great condition, works great. 2 - 5.25" 360k floopy drives, 512k RAM, 8 bit ISA card slot, composite 9: green CGA monitor and external CGA port. Serial and parallel ports. Built in keyboard. NO built in printer.$45 plus shipping (about 25 lbs) For picture and other info see http://members.tripod..com/~RHBLAKE/fleamarket.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 2 months

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Why does the Apple ][ have a hardware-encoded keyboard?

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

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28 years, 2 months

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FW: Budpest Collector needs help

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Found on Usenet. One of our fellow collectors in Budapest needs help with, of all things, a Russian version of a MicroPDP-11/23. If anyone can help him along, please contact him directly. Thanks! Attachment follows. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- From: hamster(a)lord.banki.hu (Akos Varga) Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11 Subject: Knowledge on soviet uPDP models? Date: 31 May 1998 14:00:03 GMT Organization: Banki Donat Polytechnic, Budapest Lines: 20 Message-ID: <6krnp3$rhv$1(a)goliat.eik.bme.hu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lord.banki.hu X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 960804] Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-sea-20.sprintlink.net!207.12.55.130!news-west.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!surfnet.nl!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!lord.banki.hu!not-for-mail Does someone with some knowledge of the russian MicroPDP models reads this group? I acquired a machine called MIKI Micro 11/23 System 2500 Team Computer, and it seems it has a russian F-11-clone CPU and some rather strange cards with cyrillian letters on it. The cards are probably from the Soviet company "Elektronika". Now I'm not familiar with these cards, although I could identify them. I'd like to make this machine working again, can someone provide me with some information on how to do this? If yes I can write down all boards and the components on them... This is gettinig iteresting, a soviet uPDP :) / ___ _ _ ___ ____ ___ ___ /__//__///_///__ / /_ / ) Varga Akos Endre hamster(a)netweb.hu / // // /___/ / /__ / ( www.netweb.hu/hamster/english.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PDP 11 Page http://www.netweb.hu/hamster/pdp-11/ Old Irons http://www.netweb.hu/hamster/oldiron/e_index.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years, 2 months

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Books

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 12:56 AM 5/31/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: >> >> Not to mention some undoubtedly fascinating volumes on traffic >> signals. > >I actually felt a little guilty about that. Supposedly, that's how >Microsoft got its start, right? I think Gates & Allen's first "company" was "Traf-o-data", run on someone else's PDP equipment. I recall it was analyzing traffic data. I only remember because about the same time, I was doing nearly the same thing as my Eagle Scout project, summarizing traffic and accident data for a city. Gates and Foust, the ominous parallels, oh yeah. :-) - John

28 years, 2 months

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Books

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> writes: > I bumped into Frank "Reanimator" McConnell and Paul "Sun Worshiper" Coad > today, and while Paul scrounged for Sun parts, Frank and I did the > "one for you, one for me" thing over a pile of old^H^H^H classic books. > We both left behind the most complete Modula-2 library I have ever seen, Not to mention some undoubtedly fascinating volumes on traffic signals. Here's what seems to have followed me home: Arithmetic Operations in Digital Computers, Richards, 1955 Computer System Organization: The B5700/B6700 Series, Organick, 1973 (Oooh! Another stack machine!) Currents in the Theory of Computing, Aho (ed.), 1973 Decimal Computation, Schmid, 1974 Implementing Software for Non-Numeric Applications, Waite, 1973 Information Theory and Coding, Abramson, 1963 Internal Sorting Methods Illustrated with PL/1 Programs, Rich, 1972 Low Density Parity-Check Codes, Gallager, 1963 Microprogramming Primer, Katzan, 1977 Sequential Machines: Selected Papers, Moore (ed.), 1964 Systems Programming, Donovan, 1972 Oh, and the IEEE 802.2 (LLC), 802.4 (token bus), and 802.5 (token ring) standards. Curiously enough, I was looking for the first of these at work this week, and the last one may be of use to me too. > After I get my study-at-home PhD in Obsolete Hardware Engineering, I'd be > happy to loan/trade/sell a few of these titles. Similar offer: if you're in the San Francisco Bay Area and have an interest in these, ask, I'm willing to loan them out. Maybe even if you're not in the Bay Area and can convince me that sending them is a worthwhile thing to do. I definitely want to read the Organick book first, though. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 2 months

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Intel 8008 CPU date codes

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I just lucked into a few 8008's and they don't use a date code I <recognize. Can somebody interpret for me: < 1209A < 0276R < 1464B < unknown. Tempting to find one and put it in a board I have from '74. <BTW, the chips are stamped C8008. Is there any significance to the "C"? Cermet, ceramic/metal package. The I8008 were silicone plastic. they are intel parts either way. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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Why does the Apple ][ have a hardware-encoded keyboard?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<That I'd heard before, which is why I'm so supprised by the <hardware-encoded keyboard in an otherwise software-driven machine. Things you cant do with a software scanned keyboard: Key pressed interrupt, if the cpu doesn't scan the keyboard it cannot sense activity. It takes some chips extra then to sense any key pressed and cause a interupt to initiate a keybard scan and debounce routine to see what happend. The keyboard chips did n-key rollover and buffered at least one keystroke. Fewer signal carrying wires in the air, the keyboard encoders were slow and didn't create much RFI, scan lines off the bus or a port can be quite noisy. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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Processing data in blocks

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu> wrote: > Wordstar on the Otrona Attache was also very WYSIWYG because the Otrona > could do any video attribute Wordstar every dreamed of: italics, underline, > strikethrough, bold, etc. See what happens on this list? If you aren't careful, you can learn something new every day! I stand corrected; I used Wordstar on less-capable video. And now I'm wondering whether I could get Wordstar on the HP150 to do this sort of thing.... -Frank McConnell

28 years, 2 months

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[Off Topic] Just so you all know...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

As of about 10 minutes ago, I am no longer a high school student. I graduated :) I come back here next year as part of the staff. They're hiring me to run the TCP/IP equipment. And, my 11/44 still has a home... -------

28 years, 2 months

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EC-1 (was Re: Re[2]: Computer Values)

by chrish＠knet.kootenay.net

Try looking at http://www.heathkit.com/parts.html for parts and repair centers also to get old manuals and scimatics look at bottom of the url page phone 616-925-5899 At 10:06 PM 29/05/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 29 May 1998, Joe wrote: > >> Yes, but are they still valid if the owner is out of business? I know >> the HK manuals are WIDELY copied and the copies sold. So are Tektronix, HP >> and a lot of others, and they're still in business! > >Heathkit *is* still in business, just not quite the same business: > http://www.heathkit.com > >-- Doug > > >

28 years, 2 months

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Intel 8008 CPU date codes

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

At 05:19 PM 5/30/98 -0500, you wrote: >I just lucked into a few 8008's and they don't use a date code I >recognize. Can somebody interpret for me: > 1209A > 0276R > 1464B > >BTW, the chips are stamped C8008. Is there any significance to the "C"? > >-- Doug > Don't know about the date code, but for Intel the "C" means ceramic package, vs. P, plastic. The "H" is a Hermetic (2 pieces of ceramic that look like they are cemented together). I think "C" is the only version the 8008 came in. -Dave

28 years, 2 months

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help! strange Atari box

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi all, I went to a surplus store last week and found an odd Atari box. It says it's an Automatic ROM/RAM Tester. It has two rows of address switches, one switches on one row are labeled 10 through 0 and have LEDs above them. The second row of switches only has five switches and they marked 11 through 15 and don't have corrosponding LEDS. Switch 11 is directly below switch 10, switch 12 is below switch 9, and so on. It looks like they may be multiplexed somehow. The box also has 8 Data switches and LEDs. The are four low insertion force sockets on the box, two are for 25 pin DIPs and 2 are for 20 pin DIPs. There are also various other switchs marked 1K/2K, RUN/STOP, Read/R/W*, and GAME/BOX. There is only one connector on the box, it goes to a 50 pin card edge connector via a ribbon cable. There are no power connectors or other connectors on it so it has to part of a larger unit. Any ideas? Anyone? Joe

28 years, 2 months

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Why does the Apple ][ have a hardware-encoded keyboard?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I had just read the interview oyu mention yesterday. Could someone give me some idea of what chips were involved in this thing? Did it use PROMs, microcontrollers, or what? How can you make a game with 44 chips (not an expression of disbelief)? > >> It's reasonably obvious from looking at the design of all Apple ][ series >> machines and their peripherals that they were designed to use the >> simplest hardware possible. Things like the 'minimalist' disk controller, >> the bit-banger serial port and the Apple ][ I/O structure support this. >> >> Why therefore did all Apple ][s use a hardware encoded keyboard with a >> fairly complex (and expensive) encoder IC? Software scanning would have >> been simpler in the hardware, not added much to the software, and would >> have been more versatile in many ways (the single-wire shift key mod >> wouldn't have been necessary). > >At the time (mid-70's), surplus keyboards with ASCII encoded parallel >outputs were readily available from many sources. Check, for example, >the ads in the back of a '75 or '76 _Radio-Electronics_, or see >many of the articles in the early _BYTE_'s. According to interviews >with Wozniak (for example, _BYTE 1984:12 p.167), it was no big >deal to find such a keyboard, put the right plug on the end, and >plug it in (he says, of the Apple I, "You also had >to get a keyboard and wire it into a 16-pin DIP connector".) > >Apple II motherboards were also available without a case or keyboard >or power supply, and many hobbyists bought these as a way of saving >a couple of bucks. > >Why use an encoder IC? Yes, it is cheaper if you skip this and >have the CPU scan the keyboard. But encoder IC's weren't expensive >at the time, and were an extremely common industry-standard >solution; see, for example, Don Lancaster's _TTL Cookbook_ to get >an idea at how readily available such encoders were in the mid-70's. > >Wozniak often did go for non-industry-standard solutions to >peripheral interfacing, but generally only when it reduced the >chip count. It seems to me that the encoder-IC approach to a >keyboard has a lower part count than if you use SSI TTL IC's to let >the CPU scan the keyboard. > >Chip count was an extremely important thing to Wozniak; for example, >in the same interview I referenced before, he says > >"Nolan Bushnell >was really annoyed because all their new games were coming out at 150- >170 chips. He wanted low chip counts to reduce costs, >and he had seen a version of Pong that I had done, that only used >about 30 chips. He appreciated that. So he said if we could design >a hardware Breakout in under 50 chips, we'd get 700 bucks; and if >it was under 40 chips, we'd get $1000. ... We gave them a working >breadboard for it. My first design was 42 chips. By the >time we got it working it was 44, but we were so tired we >couldn't cut it down. So we only got 700 bucks for >it." > >Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca) > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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my first computer, game of "life"

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hi all, I first discovered digital logic and TTL IC's about 1973, and wanted to build something not trivial with them. The project I chose was John Conway's game of "life" as described in Martin Gardner's Mathematical Games in "Scientific American" I ending using a 32x32 element grid using 2 (then expensive!) 2102 rams (No A or other suffix then) I would calculate one generation from one ram and write to the other. I used about a 60kHz clock and 74193 counters to generate the addresses. The clock went to a decade counter and the first 8 states generated +/- x and y clocks to visit the 8 neighbors of a given cell. If the cell was a "1", another counter was incremented, number of neighbors. The 9'th state was at the given cell. The rule was then used: Neighbors =2 and cell active, or Neighbors = 3, then the new cell was active, otherwise it was not. The 10'th clock wrote the cell to the new generation (the other ram). Thus 10 clock cycles were needed for each cell, or 10240 for each generation. This was much faster than a later 4MHz Z-80 program! I displayed the results on a 5 inch oscilloscope, using 555 timers with PNP transistor current sources to charge the timing capacitor, for x and y ramp or deflection waveforms. This was straight out of a National Semiconductor databook. The refresh rate was about 60Hz. The "load" signals for the 74193's was used to write data into locations from address switches. Finally 3 7490's and 7447's displayed the generation number on 7 segment displays. It was fun to watch the generations flash by. The total number of IC's was about 35 + 6 for the generation counter. -Dave

28 years, 2 months

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Convergent Computers Re: CTOS/BTOS recovery

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I recently found a Convergent computer in a surplus store here. It has the display section, CPU section and hard drive in blocks that attach to each other and looks like it uses some kind of external power supply. Each block had a model number on it but the only one that I remember was CP-001 on the CPU. Anyone know what this thing is and wheather it's worth picking up? Joe At 10:36 PM 5/29/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi. > >I recently picked up some more Convergent machines at a thrift shop. I was >pretty amazed; my 186 model was the only one I'd ever seen. Now I've got >286 and 386 models. Wow! > >Anyway, I also picked up a few disk modules. Two 85 MB modules, I think. >(compare to my existing pair of 10 MB modules...) One is an 'expansion' >and needs to be connected to another disk module to work. > >My problem is this: the one disk that has CTOS installed was set up as a >'Cluster Controller' and actually has accounts and passwords set up. I can >just press 'Go' at the login on my CM001 and use the system. This doesn't >work on the new system. > >Is there a way I can recover the files on this disk (meaning the OS and >application software)? I have OS disks for the standalone version, but I'd >like to preserve the cluster controller so starting over is a >less-than-ideal option. I do have other working systems and parts >available to press into service for the cause. > >Thoughts, hints, suggestions? > >ok >r. > > >

28 years, 2 months

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minor find,need info

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> Found a DELL 316(386sx/16), has 5.25 360k, 1.44 floppy, 170mb IDE with <> <> QUESTION: is there a CMOS and how do I access it? < <Should be CTL-ALT-ENTER if I remember correctly. Once you're at DOS you c That was the winner, thanks. I should have specifed that it was a Pheonix bios machine. FYI it's a great Minix machine! For those that are interested there is a site on the net (http://minix1.hampshire.edu). Bins and sources are available on the net. It can be run on anything from an XT to P6. There is also a book Operating Systems design and Implmentation 2nd Edition with CDrom of sources and bins. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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minor find,need info

by allisonp＠world.std.com

This is fairly recent so please reply offlist. Found a DELL 316(386sx/16), has 5.25 360k, 1.44 floppy, 170mb IDE with a DEC color tube and keyboard. It runs so it's going to become a minix or linux machine. QUESTION: is there a CMOS and how do I access it? Allison

28 years, 2 months

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Tandy web page malarkey

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Tandy had little input into the design really), it was a fine machine. <OS-9 on the CoCo was the first real OS I ever used - it taught me a lot <about writing device drivers, multitasking, etc. And the CoCo3 (alas not <at all common in the UK) was a very interesting box. OS9, I've heard a little about it but never seen it. Is it available? I have a COCO (I think a III, has a few ASICs and 128k), no disk controller but that can't be much majik. <And don't forget the 3rd party software for the Z-80 machines. LDOS was <arguably the finest Z80 operating system at the time - it was a lot What ever happend to LDOS? Allison

28 years, 2 months

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11/34a runs now...

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Many thanks to the Listmembers who have offered suggestions and assistance and info.. I have discovered (and rectified) the problem with my RK05 talking to it's host. I could get into a long shaggy-dog story here, but basically I had the *drive* end of the interface cable in bass-ackward. >>> DOH! <<< (Lame excuse: it's the end you can't see) And now the terminal sez: RT-11SJ V02C-02 . kewl, huh? And, even though the problem turned out to be a forehead-slapper, I must say that I have learned great gobs of stuff about how the drive works, how it interfaces, and what makes it tick. I would *never* have had the opportunity to get such (rare) understanding, had it not been for the long diagnostic journey. And that is one of my goals in collecting these things: to know them well enough to keep them on the air, and to be able to share that knowledge with others in return. Thanks to Tony Duell, Tim Shoppa, Ward Griffiths, and Huw Davies for their generous assistance. Now: get the RL02s on-line, find formatter for the Kennedy 9trk, find an interface for the System Industries 470M drive, get Unix running, &tc; &tc; &tc. But.. TRW Ham/Electronic/Computer swapmeet is tomorrow, the 28th (Sat) here in SoCal... and I'm heading that way... to find all the goodies before Marvin has a chance at them. ;} Cheers John

28 years, 2 months

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Insanely Great

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Another trio of questions. I am reading Steven Levy's Insanely Great, about the making of the Apple Mac. 1)I finally have learned the purpose of Quickdraw through this book. Do all windowing systems do this, or are there ones that render all windows even if they are obscured. The name of the system I want to know about ought not be mentioned for obvious reasons. 2)It mentioned a "new input device" that was before the Xerox machine, to be used alongside the mouse, was flexible but required training. What was it? 3)Should I keep my reference cards attached to the manuals or tear them off? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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Contact

by oboissea＠club-internet.fr

Is there a list or a forum for those who collect classic micro-computers ? please help me. Thank you. Olivier BOISSEAU oboissea(a)club-internet.fr

28 years, 2 months

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20 years of BYTE

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I took out from the library a sort of collection: 20 years of byte with some historic articles, ads ,etc. from BYTE's point of view in 1994. I liked the timeline, but the articles are very boring and technical. One of the IBM ads says,"The IBM Personal Computer starts at less than $1600 for a system that, with the addition of one simple device, hooks up to your home TV and uses your audio cassette recorder" (1982:1p61). Would this one device be a TRS-80? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

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