- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by franke＠sbs.de

>>> And anyway, a number of S100 cards included boot ROMs, etc. Those need to >>> be backed up. >> Shure, but where ? Just on a disk ? I already have the problem > On paper tape, of course. It's reliable (I've never found a tape that > can't be read), human-readable, and the automatic readers are simple > enough to be repairable... Jep. Good choice - I still have some paper tabes from the mid 70s in fine condition - but I also know (remembering the past) how fast they break... >> So, what to use ? Writable CDs ? They have only a guaranteed >> lifetime of less than 15 years. Tapes ? Maybe - I have some >> PBS Tapes from 1976 and they are still readable, but they are >> 900 and 1600 BpI tapes. Any modern optical and magnetical > You can pack a lot of ROM dumps on a 1600bpi magtape.... Shure, but 1600 BpI is the first density not readable to humans. Again insecure. >> Or just put it again on EPROMS - with propper handling >> EPROMS could survive at least 50+ years - and PROMS > Never!. I'd not trust an EPROM to last longer than 10 years. Nor any > other chip for that matter. Sure, a lot of them will, but some won't. And > if it's the last copy in the world, you've got problems. EPROMS are a real lot more reliable than any other media. >> (real one not EPROMS without window) should live even > All chips fail. Bond-outs break, the chip itself fails, etc. And some > fusible link devices suffer from a problem where the fuses grow back. > I've never seen it myself, but it happens (I've read books on it). And any magnetic media is crap for long time archival. Just ask some (ausio) tape fans about tapes from the 60s. >> longer. So just copy them. And beside the information - >> it will be even more dificult to get a usable 2704 or >> 2708 not already needed for an old computer. > Wait a second. Nobody is suggesting that (a) you don't keep the EPROM > you've backed up - or indeed that you don't keep using it, or (b) that > you don't stock up on components now. But in 20 years time, it'll be a > lot easier to repair a <whatever> given a ROM dump - even if you have to > kludge in the latest multi-megabit EPROM - than without it. I'm not interested in the backup, or the content - I just want to have the particular computer, depending on the content of the ROM, running. So the backup is just a tool, but it has to be reliable for long time to reduce backup strategie time. I found EPROMS running well for 20 years in environments where a disk wont survive 1 day. And of course yes, I already have a small component stock including some 'new' EPROMS from 256 Bytes to 64K (2KBit ... 512KBit). Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

IMSAI 8080

by franke＠sbs.de

>>> But there's no way I can afford a Lisa at the current collector's prices. >>> So, alas, there's a gap in the collection :-( >> So, would you trade an Imsai 8080 for a Lisa 2? > If I had an Imsai, then yes, I would. The Lisa is a much more interesting > machine to me... :) Btw: I'm still looking for any genuine Xerox Star. I own two SIEMENS EMS 5800 class systems (5810 and 5822) - OEM Stars, but I like to add a 'real' one to them. And for your question - The Lisa is, compared to the Star like Windows 3.0 compared to a Macintosh. A cheap surogat. The differences arn't that big at first sight, but when working the wohle day just these 4 kesy on the left side are like switching from a Volkswagen Beetle to a Mercedes T. Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years, 1 month

5
9
0 0

Attache Altair??

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I have made contact with an individual who has <what he describes as an Altair 8800 which is <in an "Attache" case made by Icom in 1976. Would <appreciate any information about this "Attache". <Is it a very desirable thing. Were very many produced, etc? < It has MITS <boards (CPU, IO, disk controller) and power suppy. <He wants to trade it to me for an Imsai 8800. <Would that be a good trade on my part? Bewary as to some people all small airplanes are Piper Cubs! It may not be MITS at all or only some. Calling it an ALTAIR means specifically one of four possible boxes all desktop sized (Altair 8800, the altair 8800B, the 8800B front pannel less version or the Altair680). Interesting. MITS never made a portable or toteable. At first I'd suspected it was an Ontrona Attache. However it's either home brew or someone used mits board and a commercial case. Is the disk controller a two board set (altair) or something else. I ask as the MITS boards were for 8" hard sector only and the likely board used would the single board Icom minifloppy (5.25") controller. Those 8" drives are huge! Find, yes it is. If anything for the altair boards. Good trade for IMSAI 8080, to my feelings no if you want to run it, Yes if you want to try and make money off it. I have an Altair and unless the boards are the 8800B series it's was cranky at best. The IMSAI has a good front pannel as well, important for the older software and systems. Allison

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

IMSAI 8080

by franke＠sbs.de

> Preserving data is not like preserving a paining, we dont care about the > image or the form as we can change it as needed. No, it's just the other way, if a painting is aging (beside real damage) nobody cares. The 'experts' even praise the quality - the best example is the Sistine Capel - Everybody told us that this dark thing was the intention, but now, after a closer look it reveals tat anything we had seen was aged 'till destruction thru smoke et.al. - after restauration this masterpeace is now rainbow coloured like a NYC garfity. Its the other way - we care about the content, an art galery doesn't care. They just want to have the thing. Especialy since the 'working' condition of an art thing isn't as easy to determinate as of an computer. > Photographic film has shown remarkable life, it's a possible media for > many decades. Only if you dont compare with an unaged copy (almost impossible :) But you could do a test - take a picture digitalize it and them wait 20 years (and keep your digital copy always readabe (I don't think I'll have to mention to preserve the equipment)). Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Quarter classics (was: Big Iron Was:RE: Backwate

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>like a storage back yard than a museum. Just putin some maybe >similar things in one space, without any description or system. The system appeals to kids who enjoy running around and pushing buttons. The fact that 'the big dig' was next to ship models were next to trains and cars were next to stuff about DNA does make me wonder... >The tragedy is that some are real nice things, but without >proper integration even the best exhibit is just crap no matter >if hands on or not. In contrast to the basic exhibitions, special Has anyone been to the Boston Museum of Natural History? Now _that_ is well organised and old fashioned. Endless rooms of glass cases with everything imaginable (The New York one is considerably less informative). >shows (like the 'Jurasic Park' exhibition or 'Boston Underground') >are made with a huge effort but only a little information to tell. >Maybe they are just no longer interestet in a general purpose (*G*) >museum and change to a theme park including merchandise ... Well, it DOES have to make money...but I agree that there is not that much info. e.g. there are many models of liquid fuel rockets, with light-up modules, and so forth, but nowhere is an explanation of how they work. >Gruss >H. > >Btw: They have (had ?) a nice hands on display about mechanics > (ropes and levers), made completely from wood (Again just > standing senseles without any proper guide ). Didn't see those, don't know. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

IMSAI 8080

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

What about phonographs? Do they last? (gives a new meaning to PROMs...) >And any magnetic media is crap for long time archival. >Just ask some (ausio) tape fans about tapes from the 60s. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

IMSAI 8080

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Preserving data is not like preserving a paining, we dont care about the image or the form as we can change it as needed. Magnetic media, even CDrom are viable as they do have a known life that is adaquately long to permit copying to newer media every 10-15 years time. The only other choices that have a better life span do so only if they are carefully handled or more correctly not handled. FYI: punched paper tape; MYLAR is the current long time winner... even then it ages. Eproms, I'd trust the newer devices longer than say the 1702 or 2708 but the industry feels 20 years is about it. Assuming the device doesn't fail from say lead bond failure, metalization cracking, Oxide flaws, electromigration or other failure mechanisms common to chips. I must point out that those failure are nearly as likely as forgetting by 20 years. Since many of those failure modes exist in all ICs even if the eprom is good it's possible everything around could have failed. Photographic film has shown remarkable life, it's a possible media for many decades. Allison

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Quarter classics (was: Big Iron Was:RE: Backwate

by franke＠sbs.de

> Incidentally, I spent a lot of time today in the Boston Science Museum. > They have some old models, even a functional steam engine, but also a > lot of hands on junk. Although kids do enjoy touching things and often > regard untouchable museums as boring, there is the issue of the > usefullness of the things, and even the issue of what knowledge we are > propagating to the children. Many of the exhibits were broken. The > robots exhibit had an arm shooting hoops. The worst it got was with the > model of the NASA Dante II robot. It was hands-on, all right: press the > up button to move a leg up, and the down button to move it down. Just > one leg. BTW, they had an early Amiga in one kiosk. At any rate, I was > kinda bored with so much floor space taken up by junk. The Boston Science Museum is an impressiv thing - or should be. I been there twice. Theoretical they could be a in competition with the Deutsches Museum, but in fact a lot displays look more like a storage back yard than a museum. Just putin some maybe similar things in one space, without any description or system. The tragedy is that some are real nice things, but without proper integration even the best exhibit is just crap no matter if hands on or not. In contrast to the basic exhibitions, special shows (like the 'Jurasic Park' exhibition or 'Boston Underground') are made with a huge effort but only a little information to tell. Maybe they are just no longer interestet in a general purpose (*G*) museum and change to a theme park including merchandise ... Gruss H. Btw: They have (had ?) a nice hands on display about mechanics (ropes and levers), made completely from wood (Again just standing senseles without any proper guide ). -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

IMSAI 8080

by franke＠sbs.de

>> And for your question - The Lisa is, compared to the Star >> like Windows 3.0 compared to a Macintosh. A cheap surogat. > I thought it would be, but I'd still like one. I'm a serious PERQ-fanatic > - PERQs were the first commerically sold workstations, based on the work > done at PARC, and are not a cheap _anything_. And I've got the Daybreak > and (of course) a Macintosh. So I'd like the missing machine in the line, > but not at the current price. I still like to trade one of my lisas :) >> The differences arn't that big at first sight, but when >> working the wohle day just these 4 kesy on the left side >> are like switching from a Volkswagen Beetle to a Mercedes T. > The hardware is, I think, very different. I would guess the Star was like > a PERQ internally (the Daybreak has a lot of similarities to the PERQ 1). I'm not talking about the Hardware - 'only' about th UI. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

principals in online selling? (was: IMSAI 8080)

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

Okay, since I was the person who started this firestorm of controversy, this is the last I will say about this issue. Let me begin by saying that I did not purchase this IMSAI when I had the opportunity for three reasons: 1. I didn't have $300 2. The machine, though historic, did nothing for me (I'll Explain) 3. I don't (in general) collect Intel. Not being into S-100 (I'm an SS-50 person, myself), the machine had little appeal to me. But I knew that there would be at least a few of you out there on this list who would be interested. So I posted it here, so some of our 'gang' could take a swing at it. The asking price _seemed_ fair, although I personally felt it was a tad high (more than _I_ would pay, anyway). What I figured would happen, some one would call, offer the guy $300, and that would be it. I had _no_ idea that this guy was gonna jack up the price into the stratusphere ($1,000 ? c'mon guys! Where's the enjoyment factor here?) Anyways, this chain of events was definitely _not_ my intention. Of course, the adage: "The road to Hell is paved grandest of good intentions" certainly applies here. I offer my most sincerest apologies for this debacle. Yes, I know, the deed is done, and it looks like a few of you out there have been hurt by this. I'm sorry. Had I known this was gonna happen, I'd a sent the guy to ebay. Further, I don't think I will be offering any more material that may be considered 'Investment Grade' (should I encounter any) in the future, and I would encourage others to do likewise. Private mail is better. If anyone has any gripes/comments, please address them directly to me: jeff.kaneko(a)ifrsys.com And let's give the mailing list back to our hobby, where it belongs. Thank you for your attention . . .. Jeff Kaneko +------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Disclaimer: | | | | These opinions are entirely my own, and in no way reflect the | | policies or opinions of my employer. | | | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ > At 02:51 AM 6/20/98 -0500, you wrote: > >> For Sale: > >> > >> IMSAI 8080 Microcomputer > >[...] > >> Asking price: $300 > > > >After a round of email bidding, the seller sez: > >> IT SOLD FOR $1000. THAMKS FOR THE RESPONSE. > > > >Somebody recently suggested that it would be better to offer stuff > >directly to readers of this list rather than advertising them via online > >auction. The last IMSAI that sold on eBay went for around $650, I think. > > > >FWIW, > >Doug (still IMSAI-less) > > Well... while it may not improve the price, it may improve the audience... > B^} > > While trying to NOT reignite another flame war (which I probably contribute > to), the qualifier on this idea might be that when you post something, post > it with an acceptable price. IMHO that should not be a difficult > proposition for someone who is looking for a good home for a piece of > equipment. If you are just going to relocate an auction, then you are > probably only in it for the money! (boy, am I gonna get yelled at for THAT > one) > > What really scrapes my oxide is an approach that I am starting to see more > often in postings in and newsgroups. (it has happened to me twice now in > the last month) > > Someone posts an item with an asking price. I respond to the message with > a counter offer. The seller responds with a counter-counter offer that I > find acceptable. I respond to the message with my acceptance and provide > shipping details. The seller then responded back indicating that he has > received a higher offer and that the unit has been sold without so much as > an opportunity for further response. > > Now, maybe it is just me... But from my view when responded with a counter > to my offer, we were in the midst of transacting a deal and I should have > 'right of first refusal' until the point that either we make the deal or I > decide I don't want it. > > I don't appreciate multi-thread dealing going on without being informed. > And it was not like there were any extended delays between these messages. > The entire series of exchanges occurred over less than 24 hours. Very > similar for the second occurrance I mentioned above... > > BTW: a HERO-2000 auction just closed on eBay for $4027.78... (sheesh!) > > -jim (the obviously overly idealistic one...) > > --- > jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 > > > > >

28 years, 1 month

10
16
0 0

available 8" disks

by yaksaken＠hkstar.com

HI Allison: ...... It means.... I still can't take some from you.... Err... BTW, if possible, you can give me your full name and the snail address, I will send you a bank draft.... You can ship the discs to me after you received the bank draft, okej? Yours, Ken Yaksa > <May I have few blank disks from you too...?? I live in Hong Kong, and I > <discover that I never can find 8" disks in my location! :( If so, I woul > <pay the shipping... :) > < > <Yours, > <Ken Yaksa > > OK, here's the scoop. > > 1) I don't want to ship if I don't have to. > 2) I'd really rather not ship international > > No one is interrested in paying me to package them to ship. Even with > free boxes and wadded up newpaper as padding it's still my time and tape. > > 3) the games disks... that was an unfortunate inclusion and the number > of disks that represents is small compared to the SIGM and CPMUG portion > which is some 300 or so. The rest are belived blank, or what have you > on them. > > 3a) the cpmug and SIGM disks are all on the WCcdrom and simtel, I feel > no guilt dumping them as it's not like they are anywhere near the last on > earth. They are more useful as media of if you have a 8" cpm system > convenient. > > 4) they are all CP/M sssd though some may be ssdd. > > 5) local pickup prefered. > > > Allison

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Preservation into Eternity (was: IMSAI 8080)

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

> >So, what to use ? Writable CDs ? They have only a guaranteed > I suggest real CD-ROMs The 'real' ones can be expensive to master . . . > >lifetime of less than 15 years. Tapes ? Maybe - I have some > >PBS Tapes from 1976 and they are still readable, but they are > >900 and 1600 BpI tapes. Any modern optical and magnetical > >medium is less reliable. So printing the hex dump and then > >try to scan it back (ocr) when a replacement is needed ? > >This sould be reliable, since it is human readable (Like > >old magnetic tapes). > > I think paper is the best option. It shouldn't be a big deal to print a > hex dump for a 20-K program with a line printer. Just make sure it's Teflon, or Tyvek based paper (if such things exist), using some very high-tech ink/toner most modern papers (that I know of) have a finite shelf-life. Now papryrus-- that's rugged! S.L. = Several millenia > >Or just put it again on EPROMS - with propper handling ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ > >EPROMS could survive at least 50+ years - and PROMS > >(real one not EPROMS without window) should live even > >longer. So just copy them. And beside the information - > > What is the problem with EPROMs? Why not just put them in styrofoam? ^^^^^^^^^ Eeeek! Is this guy crazy? It would have to be stuck in carbon-loaded foam, and kept in a Faraday-cage container (metallized stat bags, or similar). > That should keep IR out... IR would be the LEAST or your worries. Now if you're a follower of Erich von Dainken, :-) you could inscribe your source in Gold leaves, as certain pre-pre-columbian 'civilizations' supposedly have done. Your assembly code will then be forever immortalized for future generations to puzzle over. Who knows? It may even become an object of worship . . . . <Tongue now removed from cheek> Jeff +------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Disclaimer: | | | | These opinions are entirely my own, and in no way reflect the | | policies or opinions of my employer. | | | +------------------------------------------------------------------+

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Convergent Miscellany

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

<Stuff about Convergent Heavy Iron SNIPPED> > Convergent Technologies of San Jose California built a number of Unix > and other platforms, most of which were OEMed by other companies -- > NCR, Burroughs, Sperry, AT&T are the most prevalent. A few years > after Burroughs and Sperry merged into Unisys, they bought Convergent, > so I'm an ex-Unisys person since I got there a year later. Anything > you find running CTOS or CTIX is a Convergent box -- the AT&T Unix PC ^^^^^^^^^^ > ran CTIX, though the name didn't show up on screen. Convergent's ^^^^ OKay, so what happened to the source for CTIX? Did it vanish? Who does it belong to? WHo do you think I belongs to? Just Curious-- Jeff > 68xxx systems included the Miniframe and the Megaframe that later > evolved into the Convergent S-Series and the Unisys 5000 series. > (When I was there I got stuck on the damned U/6000 series, with > bloody Intel CPUs and ISA buses). > -- > Ward Griffiths > They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. > Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. > Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ > > >

28 years, 1 month

3
2
0 0

Preservation into Eternity (was: IMSAI 8080)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Just make sure it's Teflon, or Tyvek based paper (if such things <exist), using some very high-tech ink/toner most modern papers (that <I know of) have a finite shelf-life. Now papryrus-- that's rugged! <S.L. = Several millenia Not a big thing, use a low acid archival paper intended for that use. Also the printing should be done using an impact technology, it puts the ink deeper into the fibers. Ink jet would be good save for the ink stability is unknown, I'd suspect it's good though. Toners are wax resin based and while storage life is good it's not great. Allison

28 years, 1 month

3
2
0 0

Not really on-topic haiku

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

A Win95 Haiku Yesterday, it worked Today it is not working Windows is like that (found in the local newspaper :) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98]

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

LCD DIsplay for Allison

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: Robert Kirk Scott <scottk5(a)ibm.net> <Don't know if this will work for you, but I knew I had seen something <like it somewhere....took a while to track it down. On page 2 of their <online catalog, BGMicro (www.bgmicro.com) has a LM 211 by Hitachi: <480x64 dot pixel display, comes with drivers but no controller, +5v and <-9v supply recommended supply voltages, part no. LCD1008, cost...$3.50. Close but no cookie... the DELL mono/VGA (640x480) LCD came from BG also. The lm211 display is very nice but we're talking 40charx8 and I want 80x24 minimum, Graphics not needed. Allison

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Not really on-topic haiku

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-06-23 22:09:20 EDT, you write: << A Win95 Haiku Yesterday, it worked Today it is not working Windows is like that (found in the local newspaper :) >> lol. i have a bunch more. message me privately if you want em. david

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Preservation into Eternity (was: IMSAI 8080)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Sorry, I guess it would degrade, wouldn't it... <Why DO EPROMs go bad? Eprom technology relies on a stored electrostatic charge. The gate structure it uses as a capacitor is insulated with (SIO2) glass so its very high resistance but over time it can absorb mosture and the charge can leak off. UV accelerates that as do xrays and cosmic rays. The Xrays, this I know from erasing OTPs back when. I hadd help from a site were they were using industrial xray hardware on pipes. They thought I was nuts until I explaned that the parts were then worth about 25$ a peice and I have maybe 100 with me. The problem with OTPs is they are plastic and are not hermetic. The best for storage are the two slabs of ceramic types with kovar header or IBMs titainium/ceramic package. Allison

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

MacWorks has old mac systems for more or less free... *shrug*

by poesie＠geocities.com

http://www.macworks.com/html/computers.html have old systems for "free", although there is a $25 handling 'fee' to make sure everything is inside. and if you're not in the kansas city area, there's 25 for shipping too. so they're not free, but i thought i'd just mention it if anyone for some strange reason is interested. -Eric

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Macintosh II (lisa???)

by poesie＠geocities.com

Not a mac collector, or user, but I spotted a box at a computer salvage place today that said "Macintosh II", big long box... about 2.5 feet wide, about 1.5 deep, about 6" high? had one 3.5 floppy slot on the right hand side and what appeared to be another slot next to it, but it was filled in. do not know if this was one of those remarketed Lisa's or if it is just another old mac. regardless, if it is anything, the store is www.dexis.com (they have a back area full of junk- mainframes, minis, racks, tons of old and quite cool stuff). let me know if it is anything interesting, i will be happy to go pick it up for somebody. -Eric

28 years, 1 month

2
2
0 0

Quarter classics (was: Big Iron Was:RE: Backwate

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Incidentally, I spent a lot of time today in the Boston Science Museum. They have some old models, even a functional steam engine, but also a lot of hands on junk. Although kids do enjoy touching things and often regard untouchable museums as boring, there is the issue of the usefullness of the things, and even the issue of what knowledge we are propagating to the children. Many of the exhibits were broken. The robots exhibit had an arm shooting hoops. The worst it got was with the model of the NASA Dante II robot. It was hands-on, all right: press the up button to move a leg up, and the down button to move it down. Just one leg. BTW, they had an early Amiga in one kiosk. At any rate, I was kinda bored with so much floor space taken up by junk. In the Computer Museum, there was a very interesting application of hands-on. They had a part of a Whirlwind, with both the wire and tube sides of a panel exposed (behind glass, of course). The tubes were on, and you could actually feel how warm they got. Then there was an English->Punched card translator...Now those are good. >What I am moaning about is the 'hands-on' experiments using equipment >that would be found in most homes (or could, at least be bought >cheaply). It doesn't cost much to buy a battery and a bulb and test >objects to see if they conduct. It doesn't cost much to buy a bucket, >fill it with water and see what floats. Those are things that can >easily be done at home. Let's have things that can't be done at home >easily (demonstration engines, clock escapements, etc). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Quarter classics (was: Big Iron Was:RE: Backwate

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

How about a system like in recent software: 'levels'. That is, the exhibits are arranged in such a way that someone doesn't HAVE to pay attention to any details, but they are there. I can't tell you how annoying it is to walk through a museum and not have any idea what the exhibits are talking about. >I don't think museums should necessarily cater to the lowest common >denominator. I realize they derive much needed revenue from public >visitors and don't want to turn the dummies off, but they shouldn't >insult the rest of us. >> Question: Do many of you actively encourage folks (at least those >>you know or trust!) to visit you and your private collection who are >>not collectors/historians like us? If so, do you have fun teaching >>them a little about old computing (or old radios, automobiles, >>clocks or whatever your interest in addition to computers)? I don't think the average person is interested in computer history. Computers are not visibly works of art, like old radios. Most people have no nostalgic memories of them except logging in to the mainframe to update some numbers at work, or the 'do not bend...' cards. When an average person sees an old computer, they don't say, 'remember when...' or 'whoa, look at that disk architecture', they say,'are you crazy? What are you bothering with this piece of **** for?'. And most modern comuterheads are Wintel drones who don't see the meaning of a computer without Windows (ironically, Mac users are much more aware of their hardware). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Sour grapes (was: principals in online selling?)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Agreed. And yes, Sam, I would talk to a buyer and ask why he wants something. I don't pay rent or insurance, so I don't know, but I would be very uncomfortable knowing I'm a thousand dollars richer and an IMSAI's blood on my hands. A few days ago, I had the opportunity to give a family living in Russia a PS/2 Model 70. Why didn't I give it to them? Because they would be hard pressed to find someone over there who is familiar with PS/2s. How would they use the english refdisk (Russian windows is no problem)? What if they want to add a sound card? This thing uses MCA, not ISA. >No flamage... just that the analogy does not work for everyone... > >(new <somewhat non-computer related> example coming to my web pages >soon...) > >-jim >--- >jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com >The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw >Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Sour grapes (was: principals in online selling?)

by fauradon＠pclink.com

>Old adage: (slightly updated) > > "An item is only worth as much or as little as someone is willing to >pay for it" > >Corollary: (much newer) > > "An item has no value unless the owner decides to sell it..." > Wow that makes my collection priceless...

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

IMSAI 8080

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>So, what to use ? Writable CDs ? They have only a guaranteed I suggest real CD-ROMs >lifetime of less than 15 years. Tapes ? Maybe - I have some >PBS Tapes from 1976 and they are still readable, but they are >900 and 1600 BpI tapes. Any modern optical and magnetical >medium is less reliable. So printing the hex dump and then >try to scan it back (ocr) when a replacement is needed ? >This sould be reliable, since it is human readable (Like >old magnetic tapes). I think paper is the best option. It shouldn't be a big deal to print a hex dump for a 20-K program with a line printer. >Or just put it again on EPROMS - with propper handling >EPROMS could survive at least 50+ years - and PROMS >(real one not EPROMS without window) should live even >longer. So just copy them. And beside the information - What is the problem with EPROMs? Why not just put them in styrofoam? That should keep IR out... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Macintosh II (lisa???)

by fauradon＠pclink.com

Nah! I went there this week-end no Lisa there and their prices are a little too high. Did you see the HP75's? Badly abused leaked batteries no PS $10 way too much plus nobody seemed to care I asked around if anyone knew wether they had the Ps's and the answers I got is if it's not near the machine it might be somewhere else. How about the badly dent Kaypro4 for $29? compac II (or III?) for $49. I used to like that place but now they are inflating their prices and won't even allow you to bargain. Francois -----Original Message----- From: Poesie <poesie(a)geocities.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, June 23, 1998 4:12 PM Subject: Macintosh II (lisa???) >Not a mac collector, or user, but I spotted a box at a computer salvage >place today that said "Macintosh II", big long box... about 2.5 feet >wide, about 1.5 deep, about 6" high? had one 3.5 floppy slot on the >right hand side and what appeared to be another slot next to it, but it >was filled in. do not know if this was one of those remarketed Lisa's or >if it is just another old mac. regardless, if it is anything, the store >is www.dexis.com (they have a back area full of junk- mainframes, minis, >racks, tons of old and quite cool stuff). let me know if it is anything >interesting, i will be happy to go pick it up for somebody. > >-Eric >

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Preservation into Eternity (was: IMSAI 8080)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Sorry, I guess it would degrade, wouldn't it... Why DO EPROMs go bad? >Eeeek! Is this guy crazy? It would have to be stuck in >carbon-loaded foam, and kept in a Faraday-cage container (metallized >stat bags, or similar). > >> That should keep IR out... > >IR would be the LEAST or your worries. Now if you're a follower of >Erich von Dainken, :-) you could inscribe your source in Gold >leaves, as certain pre-pre-columbian 'civilizations' supposedly >have done. Your assembly code will then be forever immortalized for >future generations to puzzle over. > >Who knows? It may even become an object of worship . . . . ><Tongue now removed from cheek> > >Jeff > >+------------------------------------------------------------------+ >|Disclaimer: | >| | >| These opinions are entirely my own, and in no way reflect the | >| policies or opinions of my employer. | >| | >+------------------------------------------------------------------+ > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Macintosh II (lisa???)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

A Mac II is a 68020 or higher machine, the descendant of regular macs. Video was on an expansion card. 5 NuBus slots, I think. Room for two hard drives and two floppy drives (If you could ship me the ROM and RAM for it, please email me at maxeskin(a)hotmail.com). Other models in this series were: Mac IIci - Narrower case with one space for HDD, one for FDD, three slots, video on the board Mac IIsi - Same, but a more modern case There were also other immaterial variants. >Not a mac collector, or user, but I spotted a box at a computer salvage >place today that said "Macintosh II", big long box... about 2.5 feet >wide, about 1.5 deep, about 6" high? had one 3.5 floppy slot on the >right hand side and what appeared to be another slot next to it, but it >was filled in. do not know if this was one of those remarketed Lisa's or >if it is just another old mac. regardless, if it is anything, the store >is www.dexis.com (they have a back area full of junk- mainframes, minis, >racks, tons of old and quite cool stuff). let me know if it is anything >interesting, i will be happy to go pick it up for somebody. > >-Eric > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

IMSAI 8080

by peacock＠simconv.com

What is the problem with EPROMs? Why not just put them in styrofoam? That should keep IR out... And wrap them in aluminum foil to keep out the beta radiation, or even better lead bricks, keeps out cosmic rays and background radiation, oh, and move to some place with low radioactivity in the soil (hmmm, lets me out, Nevada is one of the most heavily nuked areas in the world), and store them at some location with a low altitude too, say the Dead Sea or Death Valley. I almost forgot, are the ROMs ceramic? Bad news, transfer them to plastic OTPs, ceramics generally have materials that source beta radiation. Those pretty white and gold cases could be destroying bits even now. Seriously, I preserve ROMs in the S-100 boards by disassembling them and saving the source code. I have about 30 backup tape generations on 4mm (I do one at the end of each month, well, 2 now, bigger disks), plus older backups on DC600 cartridges, and an offsite backup too, so I don't worry too much about losing them. And an extra advantage in having the source code is you can actually figure out how the hardware works, not have to depend on the skimpy manuals. The only drawback is that it is time consuming. Jack Peacock

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

IMSAI 8080

by franke＠sbs.de

>> Well, let me modify that slightly. It's only disgusting in that it's >> going to be preventing people like the folks here on classiccmp from >> getting their hands on systems and taking proper care of them. Sure, > Yes, I agree 100%. As an example, one of the machines I would like is an > Apple Lisa. Not because it's collectable, but because I'd like to compare > Apple's extension of the work at Xerox PARC with the PERQ and with a > Xerox D-machine. In other words I want to strip a Lisa down, hook a logic > analyser up to it, and hack it to hell and back. In then end I'd still > have a working Lisa, and I'd have a stack of notes as to what really goes > on inside one. > But there's no way I can afford a Lisa at the current collector's prices. > So, alas, there's a gap in the collection :-( So, would you trade an Imsai 8080 for a Lisa 2? >> we all collect computers for the sake of collecting, but most of us >> really enjoy keeping them running and taking care of them, and can > Yes, I wonder how many of these 'collectable' computers are in any sense > being preserved properly. I would doubt if ROMs were ever backed up or > PSUs tested. Heck, distribution disks are probably not backed up even. > I'll admit I sometimes damage the fabric of a classic, but I'm a lot more > careful than that. Full working, in dayly use (ok, at least once a week. >> Lucky for me, the computers I really love the most are the ones NOT >> found on Ebay. I've never seen a PDP8 or a PDP11 on Ebay, for instance. > Ditto, actually. I don't want an Altair, amazingly. Well, if somebody was > throwing one out I'd save it, but it's not a machine I'm looking for. In > fact, as I mentioned here once before, when 10 year ago I was offered the > choice between an Altair and an Intellec MCS8i, I grabbed the latter. deal ! Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years, 1 month

4
3
0 0

IMSAI 8080

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Shure, but where ? Just on a disk ? I already have the problem <that I can't read some fd's of the early 80s. Even APPLE II disks, <althrough I always said that a DISK ][ drive could read and write <anything including Bierdeckl (beer mats/coasters). Disks on good equipment are as reliable as Magtape. <PBS Tapes from 1976 and they are still readable, but they are I have floppies from then to bot readable and not. more are readable than not. What that means is every ten years update to new media to preserve the data. <Or just put it again on EPROMS - with propper handling <EPROMS could survive at least 50+ years - and PROMS Maybe... they realy on charge storage and that can dissapate in time. Also xrays, cosmic rays and whatever can erase them! This does not include the ambient moisture getting to the silicon and rendering it to sand. <(real one not EPROMS without window) should live even Fuse link proms were even worse. I've had them grow back or develope other defects over time. AIM proms are better but still if overstressed at programming they can exhibit failure over time. <longer. So just copy them. And beside the information - <it will be even more dificult to get a usable 2704 or <2708 not already needed for an old computer. In the case of 27xx devices, if they forget reprogram the same one if it's still good. If it failed well... find another? <> takes a dry joint on the ground pin of a 7805 ( or worse still, loose <> screws on the TO3 canned version) to wipe out the entire board of IC's < <> If you think I'm paranoid about this, I am. I've had it happen, you see <> and I don't want it to happen again. I've also had those regulators drift with age. Like any IC they can fail of many ways! Allison

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

IMSAI 8080

by franke＠sbs.de

>>> Yes, I wonder how many of these 'collectable' computers >>> are in any sense being preserved properly. I would doubt >>> if ROMs were ever backed up or PSUs tested. >> Hmm, IMSAI's didn't have ROMs (or PALs and FPGAs, programmable logic had > The topic has drifted somewhat from the subject line - I wasn't only > refering to IMSAIs, but also to LISAs, etc, which most certainly do > contain ROMs. :) And also the most IMSAI I'v seen (on other boards - just to get power up a bit more comfortable :) > And anyway, a number of S100 cards included boot ROMs, etc. Those need to > be backed up. Shure, but where ? Just on a disk ? I already have the problem that I can't read some fd's of the early 80s. Even APPLE II disks, althrough I always said that a DISK ][ drive could read and write anything including Bierdeckl (beer mats/coasters). So, what to use ? Writable CDs ? They have only a guaranteed lifetime of less than 15 years. Tapes ? Maybe - I have some PBS Tapes from 1976 and they are still readable, but they are 900 and 1600 BpI tapes. Any modern optical and magnetical medium is less reliable. So printing the hex dump and then try to scan it back (ocr) when a replacement is needed ? This sould be reliable, since it is human readable (Like old magnetic tapes). Or just put it again on EPROMS - with propper handling EPROMS could survive at least 50+ years - and PROMS (real one not EPROMS without window) should live even longer. So just copy them. And beside the information - it will be even more dificult to get a usable 2704 or 2708 not already needed for an old computer. >> yet to be invented), unless you added them in yourself. As for checking >> the power supply, an IMSAI was extremely easy to eyeball...huge >> transformer, diodes, and beer can size capacitors. One problem I never > Yes, but there are regulators on each S100 card. If you've got a card > with rare socketed chips on it, I'd pull the chips and power up the card > without them the first time. Then check the local +5V rail, etc. It only > takes a dry joint on the ground pin of a 7805 ( or worse still, loose > screws on the TO3 canned version) to wipe out the entire board of IC's. > If you think I'm paranoid about this, I am. I've had it happen, you see, > and I don't want it to happen again. I hope you keep this attitude for the next 20 years. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Quarter classics (was: Big Iron Was:RE: Backwate

by franke＠sbs.de

> [Science museum] >>> Alas they've added some of those 'interactive' experiments. While a good >>> idea in theory, I'm not sure they should be combined with collections of >>> historical scientific instruments, etc. The groups of people interested >>> in the two displays would have virtually no intersection IMHO. >> Hmm. The Deutsches Museum is a 'hands-on'/'interactive') museum >> since the first years, and the combination of historic displays >> and learning works fine - at least for me. > I've got no problem with working exhibits, and hands-on learning. But the > science museum already has far more stuff than it can display, so when > a lot of the space has recently been taken over with these interactive > experiments that have little to do with the historical stuff, it's a > pity. Thats maybe a difference, because the Deutsches Museum is supposed to be a learning thing - tell science and technic One special thing is that there are displays made in the 30s, 50s or 60s which are historical themself. I had some fights in the past where these displays should be removed and replaced by something 'modern'. > While I am sure that such things are educationally very valuable, if I > want to see which materials conduct electricity, I'll do it at home :-). > I want to see things that, in general, I don't have at home, and am not > likely to have at home. No. It's exactly about the 'simple' displays to tell the basic story. I don't need a 'multi media experiance' on computers, when nobody tells the story of a flip-flop or any dimple and/or/not logic (Without these _simple_ displays at the Deutsches Museum I never had understood the two-stroke engine or the exact system of the 'controls' of an steam engine in locomotives). Example: in the computer hall they have a display showing a digital counter build of acryl boxes, driven by _water_ (As I said before - the computer display is marvelous until Zuse engine - thereafter just junk). Thats the kind I'm talking about - showing the basics. > Last time I was there, they had some kind of virtual reality system (a > game of some kind, I think). I didn't investigate further, as it cost > more money to see it. Note that this wasn't an exhibition on how virtual > reality machines work, or anything like that. And it was using the space > that had once held a GWR 'Castle' locomotive and a Class 55 Deltic. Sad, but if I had to decide between just displaying a clasic engine or a hans on display, I favour the later - don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about fun rides for entertainment. The Deutsches Museum also owns an impressiv collection of railway vehicle, and some real unique pices, but they are only to show significant stages of technology, not just historic - Thats reserved for railway mueseums (btw: you have in GB a museum still without any comperable counterpart in Germany - the Tramway Museum in Chrich!). >>> Oh, back the heads off the drum and replace it with a set of RAMs and >>> counters :-). Keep the drum turning, and demonstrate the machine with >>> more modern memory (at least for day-to-day operation). >> Exactly my idea of a display ... > Right... Well, even better, teach people how to start and stop the drum > and keep the machine original, but I guess that wouldn't be practical. Nice - but dream - the drum was alredy not very reliable when it was new. It would be a huge success if it could run only once. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

BULL - XPS 120 - HELP!

by wanderer＠bos.nl

Hi, The XPS100 and XPS120 are made by Bull S.A. (French computer maker, the Unix systems where actually made in Pregnana, Italy), the XPS100 used to be a single processor machine with an 68010 (or 68020) and the XPS120 used to be a dual cpu machine (that is, as far as I can remember it) When I worked with them they had Unix System 5 rel. 0, but maybe also release 1 or 2 has been made available at a later stage. Basically after you have connected all the disks and so on it should work, the console should generate some diagnostic messages and other stuff, and you should then get the login prompt. Ed -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer(a)bos.nl | Europarlementariers: http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates!

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

APPLE //c question

by franke＠sbs.de

>> Yesterday I opened my Apple //c to take a picture, and I >> found something strange: On the OS _EP_ROM is a batch >> to close the window, handmade with the text "NOV 30, 83" >> written on it. I always thought that the //c was released >> in april '84 and first in the US - but this is an ordinary >> (at least I think) german //c. There is no information >> sticker on the case, so no serial number or exact modell >> information is available (I forgot to check the revision >> number on the mainboard). The character generator is also >> 'only' an EPROM, but the sticker on the window is premade >> (paper) with a copyright notice (APPLE 83). > Is the texture of the case smooth or rough? Does it have the Apple logo > and the //c name imprinted on the top of the case towards the back end? > If you still have it open, look under the power supply (it takes some > force to pull the P/S out of its socket). What does it say underneath? Camera and Pictures are at home. I'll have a look (yes its still open, since I use this to giv him a complete cleaning). More information tomorrow. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

MicroVAX 2000

by peacock＠simconv.com

> If they are labeled "CompacTape", yes. I'm not sure if the CompacTape II's will work in a TK-50 drive, but I've been told they will. A TK50 (CompacTape I, 95MB) can be read in any TK drive up to a TK86 (CompacTape III, 6GB). A TK70 (CompacTape II, 295MB) is also upward but not downward compatible. However, if you fully erase a TK70 with a degausser it will work in a TK50 drive, but from then on it looks like a TK50 tape in a TK70 drive too. Re uVAX 2000 tape drives, a TK50-F is the original drive but the SCSI controller in the tape needs an upgrade if you use it with any other SCSI controller, like a MicroVax 3100. The TK50-G model had the updated ROMs, so given a choice look for the G model instead. Jack Peacock

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

APPLE //c question

by franke＠sbs.de

Yesterday I opened my Apple //c to take a picture, and I found something strange: On the OS _EP_ROM is a batch to close the window, handmade with the text "NOV 30, 83" written on it. I always thought that the //c was released in april '84 and first in the US - but this is an ordinary (at least I think) german //c. There is no information sticker on the case, so no serial number or exact modell information is available (I forgot to check the revision number on the mainboard). The character generator is also 'only' an EPROM, but the sticker on the window is premade (paper) with a copyright notice (APPLE 83). So, is this maybe some kind of early pre production series for tests in Germany ? Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Old Mac OS.... Help PLS!

by yaksaken＠hkstar.com

Hi Lawrence: Thanks for your info, I will search it up from WWW.... :) BTW, may I use any Mac emulator, and get the HD-COPY from Apple site and run it to extract the Mac disc image from an IBM directly? Yours, Ken Yaksa > There are several programs for transferring disks from a PC to Mac . > Macindos , Macsee , and IMHO the best is Macdisk . > This is a description: > macdisk.exe (249K) > Mac Disk is a PC utility to read, write, and > format Macintosh HD floppy disks. Bundled > with an Ascii converter and a utility to edit the > internal table. Contains a demo version under > Windows and a shareware version. From Pierre > Duhem. See ReadMe for additional information. > > macsq.exe (318K) > Mac SQ is a PC utility to read, write and > format Macintosh SyQuest cartridges on a PC. > Contains a demo version under Windows and a > shareware version under DOS. > > The macsq overcomes the problem of the non-MFM > 800 and 400 k flopies if you have access to a Syquest > removeable. > > I can't find the URL for this but a search should easily turn it up. > Of course if you have a working Mac you can down load to a PC > The trick is not to uncompress on the PC but simply transfer the > uncompressed files and then uncompress them with Shrinkit . > The same technique works with the Atari ST > > ciao larry > > lwalker(a)interlog.com

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

available 8" disks

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> I have about two xerox paper boxes of 8" floppies. this is several > hundred floppies. > > Box one is the entire sigm and cpmug volumes and they are readable. Readable? By what machine? Are they single or double sided and what format? (My machines with 8inch: IBM System/23, FTS Series 88 (FTS is CP/M86). I also intend one day to get a PDP running, and connect an RX02 to it.) > Box two is mostly blanks or believed to be. > > Local pick up or shipping would be small quantities of disks so they can > be packed in plastic disk boxes. As usual, shipping to the UK is likely to be expensive. I am reluctant to buy secondhand blank disks, although given the quality of most new disks nowadays, secondhand ones are unlikely to be any worse... > If there is no interest I intend to dump these as it's filling the garage. I don't think I'll buy disks unless they have something really nice on them, but: If you do get to the point of throwing disks away, please keep the paper envelopes, and I will pay for shipping of these. I am very short (some disks three to an envelope at present) because I also store photographs in them (I get 8 inch square prints back from the developer). Philip.

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

available 8" disks

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Tue Jun 23 05:31:27 1998 <Return-Path: <CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu> <Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2 < id AA07052; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 05:31:26 -0400 <Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) < by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with S < id CAA20579; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 02:25:23 -0700 <Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9 < by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ES < id CAA68408 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 <Received: from imsp073.netvigator.com (imsp073.netvigator.com [205.252.14 < by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESM < id CAA17221 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 02:24: <Received: from ken-yaksa (yckam027047.netvigator.com [206.161.49.239]) < by imsp073.netvigator.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA13587 < for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 17:24:12 +0800 (HKT <Message-Id: <199806230924.RAA13587(a)imsp073.netvigator.com> <Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 17:19:21 +0800 <Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu <Precedence: bulk <From: "Ken Yaksa" <yaksaken(a)hkstar.com> <To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washing <Subject: Re: available 8" disks <Mime-Version: 1.0 <Content-Type: text/plain; charset=BIG5 <Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <X-To: <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> <X-Msmail-Priority: Normal <X-Priority: 3 <X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN <Status: R <May I have few blank disks from you too...?? I live in Hong Kong, and I <discover that I never can find 8" disks in my location! :( If so, I woul <pay the shipping... :) < <Yours, <Ken Yaksa OK, here's the scoop. 1) I don't want to ship if I don't have to. 2) I'd really rather not ship international No one is interrested in paying me to package them to ship. Even with free boxes and wadded up newpaper as padding it's still my time and tape. 3) the games disks... that was an unfortunate inclusion and the number of disks that represents is small compared to the SIGM and CPMUG portion which is some 300 or so. The rest are belived blank, or what have you on them. 3a) the cpmug and SIGM disks are all on the WCcdrom and simtel, I feel no guilt dumping them as it's not like they are anywhere near the last on earth. They are more useful as media of if you have a 8" cpm system convenient. 4) they are all CP/M sssd though some may be ssdd. 5) local pickup prefered. Allison

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

MicroVAX 2000

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<If they are labeled "CompacTape", yes. I'm not sure if the CompacTape II <will work in a TK-50 drive, but I've been told they will. You can not us <Compact III's or IV's (not that you would want to even used they are VER <spendy). CompactTapeII is not usable as it's for tk70 and is different oxide. The II tapes are the same size though. TK50 tapes can be read in tk70 but not the reverse. <Oh, and they are light grey. of course. Allison

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

MicroVAX 2000

by allisonp＠world.std.com

It certainly seems to have a load of memory chips in it! But I didn't <really try to tally the total amount. the base board has 2mb and there are two daughter boards one for the network (has 7990 lance chip) and the otehr is more memory. <Do you have a wiretable from the 60-pin to hard and floppy connectors? Iff the top of my head no, it's not that complex though. finding the 60 pin connector is the challenge. It's then broken down to the 34pin for the floppy, 43pin for the HD and the 22pin for the HD. <That 15-pin CRT/keyboard/mouse sounds an awful lot like the Rainbow <setup. Could I be so lucky? Maybe, I forget the cable and monitor used. there were both color and monochrome. The cable for the rainbow may not be useable! I don't have graphic consoles for mine so cables and tubes are a dim memory. <Heh heh! Hope they are not the nuisance that house flies are! Not likely, but fun. This will help with the monitor command the VS2000 is a subset of the vs3100 that would come later. DEPOSIT [{ /B | /W | /L}] [{ /P | /V | /I }] [/G] [/U] [/N:<n>] [{ <addr> | <sym> | + | - | * | @ } [<datum>]] EXAMINE [{ /B | /W | /L}] [{ /P | /V | /I }] [/G] [/U] [/N:<n>] [{ <addr> | <sym> | + | - | * | @ }] BOOT [/[R5:]<bflg>] <ddau>: TEST <n> [<m>] BOOT command Syntax: BOOT [/[R5:]<bflg>] <ddau>: ddau - device in VMS/VMB column listed in 'SHOW DEV' command R5: - ??? bflg - ??? Bootstraps from and submits control to the loaded program retrieved from device 'ddau' DEPOSIT command Syntax: DEPOSIT [{ /B | /W | /L}] [{ /P | /V | /I }] [/G] [/U] [/N:<n>] [{ <addr> | <sym> | + | - | * | @ } [<datum>]] Writes argument(s) to memory /B - byte (8 bit) /W - word (16 bit) /L - long (32 bit) /P - ??? /V - ??? /I - I registers (0x00-0x13) what are they for ??? /G - G registers (0x00-0x0f) what are they for ??? /U - ??? /N:<n> - number of entries (bytes/words/longs) <addr> - memory address (hexidecimal) <sym> - ??? + - increments pointer by byte/word/long - - decrements pointer by byte/word/long * - ??? @ - ??? <datum> - that which is written to memory determined by above args EXAMINE command Syntax: EXAMINE [{ /B | /W | /L}] [{ /P | /V | /I }] [/G] [/U] [/N:<n>] [{ <addr> | <sym> | + | - | * | @ }] Examines memory contents /B - byte (8 bit) /W - word (16 bit) /L - long (32 bit) /P - ??? /V - ??? /I - I registers (0x00-0x13) what are they for??? /G - G registers (0x00-0x0f) what are they for??? /U - ??? /N:<n> - number of entries (bytes/words/longs) <addr> - memory address (hexidecimal) <sym> - ??? + - increment pointer by 1=byte, 2=word, 3=long - - decrement pointer by 1=byte, 2=word, 3=long * - ??? @ - ??? TEST commands Syntax: TEST <n> n - number in decimal 00-99 Function: Performs peripheral tests 00 - system exerciser 50 - Disply config in criptic form (the third column is informative) 51 - set default boot device 52 - set boot flags 53 - set default recover action (boot) 54 - set keyboard language 61 - screen of "E" used for monitor checking (monochrome) 62 - white screen (monochrome monitor) 70 - format drive installed (floppy ot hard) 71 - diskette or HD verifier 81 - screen of "E" for color monitor 82 - white screen for color monitor 87 - 8 color bars for color monitor 88 - 8 gray scale bars for comor or monochrome Allison

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

MicroVAX 2000

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Sounds like a Maxtor 2190 clone. usually says maxtor on the top and 2190 on the side. <> Back to that SCSI -- the SCSI in the MicroVAX 2000 was for use only <> with the TK50Z-FA tape drive, a 95MB cartridge tape system which looks <> almost exactly like today's fancy DLT tapes (It's DLT's grandfather, <> pretty much). TK50 is an extremely common format for older (early to <Is that the 4" square (about) tape cartridge that i see a lot of <occasionally? Yes and you want one as they store 95 meg and it's a sorta default smallvax tape. The TK50z-fa is a second box the same size as the one you have. If you can find a external storage box (yep, another bix just like that one) you have the full storage boat. <No, but there are a 50-pin and a 60-pin header on the motherboard that <are not presently used. the 60 pin is the MFM-HD/Floppy connector and the 50 pin is a vaild pinout for a 50 pin scsi. <The VMS VAXcluster is not an option, but the netboot may be. Also check out www.decus.org as you can get a license for VMS free. The real trick is media as Montgar.com has the CDROM with VMS5.4 through V6.1 and a bunch of other stuff for 30$. Usually you can get someone to crack the cdrom (it's DEC VMS files not PC compatable) to TK50. The alternate is if someone has a VS2000 or MicrovaxII they can put the OS directly on the rd54 and you can plug it in. Ultrix can often be found on old machines as well if your into unix. Allison

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

MicroVAX 2000

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 22, 22:05, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Is that the 4" square (about) tape cartridge that i see a lot of > >occasionally? > > If they are labeled "CompacTape", yes. I'm not sure if the CompacTape II's > will work in a TK-50 drive, but I've been told they will. No, but the other way round (CompacTape/TK50 in a CompacTapeII/TK70 drive) works. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

available 8" disks

by yaksaken＠hkstar.com

Hi Allison: May I have few blank disks from you too...?? I live in Hong Kong, and I discover that I never can find 8" disks in my location! :( If so, I would pay the shipping... :) Yours, Ken Yaksa > I have about two xerox paper boxes of 8" floppies. this is several > hundred floppies. > > Box one is the entire sigm and cpmug volumes and they are readable. > > Box two is mostly blanks or believed to be. > > Local pick up or shipping would be small quantities of disks so they can > be packed in plastic disk boxes. > > If there is no interest I intend to dump these as it's filling the garage. > > Also I have another box load that have programs (orginal disks) of the > likes of deadline, planetffall, Aventure and more.

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

What is the first computer?

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Just to be different, I accidentally sent this to Hans instead of the list last night. ;-) P. ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: Re[6]: What is the first computer? Author: Philip Belben at PowerTech2 Date: 22/06/98 18:17 >> Was the Z3 like the Z4 in using old 35mm cine film for punched tape? >> (don't try and read it with an optical reader!!!!) > > Never heard of opto-mechanics ? *g* > > In fact all early Zuse computers used old cine tapes. > Z1, Z2, Z3, Z4. Opto mechanics? Fine. That is, fine if you want your data to be logically OR'd with the picture recorded on the film... >> Irony of the week: the >> Pascal calculator in the London Science Museum is a decimal model. That >> in the Deutches Museum is a Pounds, Shillings and Pence model. :-) > > Afaik they also own a decimal one, but Pounds, Shillings and Pence > ar _way_way_way_ more exotic :) - It gets a lot more attention than > 'just' decimal calculaters, althrough the difference are only some > of the wheels. :-) IIRC, marked Livres, Solz, and Deniers. What's Solz an abbreviation of? Solides? I thought shillings were Sous! (off topic) I've always thought the single European currency should be called a Pound because there's a word for it in almost all European languages - Pfund, Livre, Lira, Peso(?) etc. Dollar would do as well, I suppose (Thaler?). Or even Ecu (Escudo?). But Euro?!?!?!? > Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut > HRK What does "HRK" mean? I apologise for taking it as your initials - our mail software strips off the header and you have to go and look for things like the Sender's name or address. (The quotation is Descartes, isn't it?) Philip.

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Tandy DWP-210 For Sale!!!

by hills＠frontiernet.net

Classic daisy-wheel printer for sale. http://www.frontiernet.net/~hills/dwp.htm

28 years, 1 month

5
6
0 0

MicroVAX 2000

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Saturday at the local swapmeet, I picked up a MicroVAX 2000. It is a < neat little package, but now that I have it what can I do with it? And < how do I do it? IT's a vax and runs VMS(fits on a RD53 or 54), Ultrix(fits on rd53 or 54) and sorta runs NETBSD(?). If you put a terminal on the DB9 (ground pin 8 to 9) it will use a standard terminal (9600, 8,n,1). The Test 50 command will display ram installed and other data about the system. VMS and ultrix runs fairly well in 4 or more meg of ram NetBSD wants 8 or more, 14mb is max. < This one is a Model 625NT-AA, and comes without harddisk. It appears IT has a hard and a floppy controller on the board (the 60 pin connector). The biggest drive it knows is the RD54 (maxtor 2990) at 159mb. It can also format hard disks and DEC floppies rx50 <400kb dual 5.25> or RX33 <1.2mb, 5.25>. < that there is a resistor board installed to provide a load comparable < to the drive on the power supply. According to a rather sketchy spec < sheet that I d/l'd from DEC, it can handle a maximum 318mb local disk. < Based on the 53C80 chip installed, I presume that the drive should be < SCSI. The 318mb of local disk is 2 RD54s. The 50 pin internal connecter is indeed SCSI... but the only device usable is an oddball version of the TK50 tape that has the ODD scsi bridge board. Reason for oddball, BOOT ROMS do not talk std SCSI nor do they boot anything other than Eithernet (BNC), Floppy, HARD disk or TK50 tape on the scsi BUS. It will not boot a SCSI disk. It can use a SCSI disk IF you supply your own driver. < At the rear of the machine are three sub-D connectors, one each 25-pin, < 15-pin, and 9-pin. What are their functions? The 15 and 9 are < presently encumbered by a plugin box that has three RJ45(?) connectors. < Network link? 25 pin is modem. 15 pin is CRT/keyboard/mouse, 9pin is serial printer or console. The MMJ adaptor bring out the serial printer, mouse and keyboard lines to RS423 serial lines for terminals (ala dec vt320). That MMJ adaptor is removeable (two screws). Network is on the AUI or BNC connector and is eithernet (10base2). They are common as house flies and as small vaxen go pretty useful and fun to run as they really don't use much power. Allison

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

FW: Fellow's looking for a VAXen in Oz

by kyrrin＠jps.net

One of our fellow collectors 'down under' is apparently seeking a VS3100 or similar. If you can help, please contact him directly. Thanks in advance. Attachment follows. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- From: <> Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Subject: vaxstation wanted NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.134.95.117 Message-ID: <358e6062.0(a)139.134.5.33> Date: 22 Jun 98 13:47:14 GMT Lines: 9 Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!139.130.250.2!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nntp.telstra.net!139.134.5.33!139.134.95.117 I am after a used vaxstation 3100 or 4000 model. Must be working. Also TLZ06 DAT drive wanted. Has anyone got one for sale in Sydney, Australia area. Email me at GADTECH(a)bigpond.com.au -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW.

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

MicroVAX 2000

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> Not exactly, the SCSI port is only for a tape drive, a TK50Z (an early > ancestor to modern DLT drives). Gerhard Moeller has hacked together a SCSI driver for the beast. You'll still need an MFM drive to boot from, though. He posts fairly frequently on comp.sys.dec or comp.os.vms, so it shouldn't be difficult to track him down with dejanews. > A uVAX 2000 uses MFM drives, either a > Microplis 1325/DEC RD53 (70MB) or a Maxtor 2190/DEC RD54 (159MB). In > order to load VMS you really need the RD54, 70MB is too small. Unless, of course, you install something like MicroVMS 4.5, which was current when the thing came out. I've installed 7.1 on an 40MB drive, but it was painful and it occasionally spontaneously crashes. Using Gerhard's driver, I have a nice little package containing a 40MB drive and a TZ30 tape drive to take on travel. I did have to do some metalwork hacking to get the TZ30 in; there's a cable that wanders around outside the 5.25" form factor. > The HD > controller is the 40 pin SMC chip on the motherboard. Oddball MFM > format, not compatible with WD HDCs, Well, technically, the format itself is compatible. The 2000 just adds some extra information to control bad block replacement. The PC doesn't know about the extra information and, consequently, doesn't add it. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

2026

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

test-drb