>The problem in my mind was that there was no guiding thread, no >hook",
no core story, no moral or lesson - just fumbling computer >companies,
insane investors, inept marketroids, crazy genius types, >etc. Is this
interesting enough, or just interesting to Amiga-heads?
The former. I can read commodore anecdotes for hours and never get
tired. One of my favorites is that they drilled circuit boards (some
early machine) to prevent people from putting their own upgrade chips in
(rather than have the dealer do it), and it cost them more to do this
than the cost of the actual chip. I mean, there does have to be some
tie-together, but it's always there if one has a lot of information.
Here's one: Capitalism, the abode of stupidity, is the crematorium of
ingenuity and creativity. Just off the top of my head.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
<> Why are folks scrounging on this list for blank 8" floppies when they a
<> readily available by mail order?
<
<I'd guess lack of information and price, Tim.
<
< - don
I'm as baffled as you two as if I ship disks I'm going to charge $5 just
so I have shipping covered for a box of about 10. After all of I have a
handful of people doing a send me some it could very likely incur some
serious $$$ in shipping. No real bargan there.
Allison
>The 512K uses an older mouse that is internally compatible with a PC bus
>mouse or an Amiga mouse, just one button. I do not know the pinout of
>the Mac, but it should be a trivial exercise to build a pin swabber. You
Speaking of Mac Mice... At the MIT Flea this past weekend, I picked up
a mouse for the Mac Classic I mentioned in other mail... it is the
'original' style of apple mouse. My question is whether this will work
correctly with the Mac Classic -- it does seem to plug in, but since I'm
not getting much response from the system, I don't know...
BTW - another question -- when the Mac Classic boots, it shows the smiley
disk and I hear the internal HD working. The screen goes light grey with
a pointer on it. This is displayed for a few seconds and then I get the
'Welcome to Macintosh' screen. This remains this way for as much as 10
minutes (I didn't wait longer). Is this normal? Have I simply not
allowed the system adequate time to boot to a user screen? (I'm used to
an RT system which boots in about 30-45 seconds, depending on amount of
memory).
Also, there are two buttons on the left side of the case... one apparently
does the mac equivalent of the three-fingered-salute on PCs... the other
one causes the 'Welcome to Macintosh' screen to go away and be replaced
by one which lookes the same (banner background) but with a '>' sign...
What is this?
Please pardon a really naive Mac user (this is my first use of a Mac, and
I'm not impressed so far), and I'm trying to get this thing working for
my partner's pre-school class.
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com |
| Digital Equipment Corporation | |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
I would honestly LOVE to visit that web site, but my proxy denies fulfilling
the request. Like it's got sensitive info.
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, June 25, 1998 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: Loss of early UCSD P-System materials...
>kroma <kroma(a)worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Damn! I wish I'd known about your museum - last summer I helped clean
>>>>>out the lab that had been Ken Bowles and we found a bunch of 8-inch
>>>
>>>OH MY GOD, THEY KILLED KENNY!!! YOU BASTARDS!!!
>
>At 06:06 PM 6/25/98 +0300, Hotze wrote:
>>Ha. You think that you're funny, don't you?
>
>Well, even I laughed. Ken's not dead, though. He's at
><http://www.electriciti.com/~bowlesk>.
>
>- John
>Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
>
<> Firstly a CD player is not that easy to convert into a CD-ROM drive. My
<> CD-ROM drive _is_ based on a CD-player, and I have the service manuals
<> both for the CD-ROM drive and the player. The mods are not that simple
<
<I'm not talking about converting - I'm talking that in 25 years
<still new drives will be available to read CDs - Maybe some kind
<of hyper-DVD-super-ultra drives - but able to read 'regular' CDs.
That may be longer than reasonable... I'd use say writable CDrom
and if 9 years from now the ability to read that start getting scarce
I'd use the next technology that is current then and copy to that.
This would allow reading using available technology and also insure the
data was fresh. FYI: checksums and various other means can be used to
insure a file has not been compromized and also make recovery possible.
<
<> Secondly, where do I get a 78rpm record player these days (new, of
<> course). Or a Playtape player. Or an 8-track cartridge player. Music
<> formats do go out of production as well.
Some do some don't and a few are easy to make. a player for 78rpm disks
would be pretty trivial. Certain tape formats are fairly easy like
800/1600 bpi magtape.
<shure ther will - I bet any money you want - or wait - I what
<about my Pascal Microengine ? You'll get it if there is no new,
<working, CD reading device availabe in 2023 :)
It is necessary to look at the entire archival picture. copies of the
eproms/roms PALs are only a peice, spares to reproduce them and the
tools needed to insert code are also required.
Allison
I have about two xerox paper boxes of 8" floppies. this is several
hundred floppies.
Box one is the entire sigm and cpmug volumes and they are readable.
Box two is mostly blanks or believed to be.
Local pick up or shipping would be small quantities of disks so they can
be packed in plastic disk boxes.
If there is no interest I intend to dump these as it's filling the garage.
Also I have another box load that have programs (orginal disks) of the
likes of deadline, planetffall, Aventure and more.
Allison
> Now, I've found 9tack tape to be _very_ reliable, second only to paper
> tape. Certainly a lot more reliable than EPROMs, PROMs, etc.
If kept in proper environment.
>> I had even new taps failing to record.
> Good, branded tapes, or just random cheap ones?
Branded - a pcs at 140 USD.
> The other thing is, nobody has said that you only keep one backup, right?
:)
> Keep the original EPROM, in use, and hope you don't need a backup
Shure thats why I have them - Backup isn't the bussines it's
the tool.
> Keep a copy on your PC's hard disk, for looking at, and for burning an
> EPROM from if your screwdriver slips and applies 12V to the Vcc pin of
> the EPROM...
I still use an 8085 systems for the EPROM thing :)
> Keep a copy on floppy disk or PC streamer tape, just in case you delete
> the wrong file
> Keep a copy on paper tape in case all else fails.
> And keep a copy on CD-R, 9-track, Zip, etc. Whatever else you can store
> it on. The more copies you have, the more likely one will be readable in
> the future.
:)
>>>> And any magnetic media is crap for long time archival.
>>>> Just ask some (ausio) tape fans about tapes from the 60s.
>>> Oh, I don't know. I've managed to play 1960's reel-to-reel audio tapes
>>> (and early 19790's video tapes, reel and cassette) with no real
>>> problems. If you pick a suitably redundant format for the data I suspect
>>> it'll be OK.
>> Managed to play and recovering all information are
>> different things.
> Yes, but
> (a) you'd use a partially redundant encoding system (I _know_ I
> would) so you could recover partially damaged data.
> (b) 'damage' that affects audio or video recordings may not have much
> effect on data (and vice versa). For example minor print-through would
> certainly be audible, but it might be possible to set the read thresholds
> so a digital tape drive wouldn't notice it. Ditto for fading. On the
> other hand drop-outs have a much greater effect on digital data than on
> audio or video recordings.
true.
>> And back to CDs (to reunite the two threads):
>> Theres a huge difference between your listed magnetic things
>> and CDs - the music sector - I bet any summ you want that
>> there will be new drives in 20 years from now, able to read
>> a CD made today (if the CD contend isn't damaged of course).
> Firstly a CD player is not that easy to convert into a CD-ROM drive. My
> CD-ROM drive _is_ based on a CD-player, and I have the service manuals
> both for the CD-ROM drive and the player. The mods are not that simple.
I'm not talking about converting - I'm talking that in 25 years
still new drives will be available to read CDs - Maybe some kind
of hyper-DVD-super-ultra drives - but able to read 'regular' CDs.
> Secondly, where do I get a 78rpm record player these days (new, of
> course). Or a Playtape player. Or an 8-track cartridge player. Music
> formats do go out of production as well.
Stop. 8-track - or what ever special formates beside regular
phonographic disks had always only a special small ocurence -
like ZIP drives, or almost any old media on computers beside
mybe tapes. For 78rpm players you should take a look at a
shop for analogue enthusiasts - there are still _new_ players
available - ok, I don't know if they sell more than 100 pcs
a year word wide, but they are available - and for 33/45rpm
players, almost any audio store still has at least one _new_
model to offer. Even Quelle (big mail order company in Germany)
still offers players. And now it's almost 20 years after the
CD.
Again, I give no chance for special devices and solution, but
I think there will be new CD Players even in 25 years - I am
shure ther will - I bet any money you want - or wait - I what
about my Pascal Microengine ? You'll get it if there is no new,
working, CD reading device availabe in 2023 :)
Servus
hans
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
<Cool Stuff about the history of computer speech SNIPPED>
> A year or two earlier, Texas Instruments got into speech synthesis in a big
> way using a technique halfway between digitized speech and speech
> synthesis, a
> process that might now be called "smoothed sampling". It worked much better
> than true synthesis in that its intelligiblity was quite good. Because of
> that, TI was able to sell a variety of manufacturers on the idea of having
> talking washing machines, microwave ovens, vaccuum cleaners, etc. The most
> expensive of these talking machines was the Chrysler LeBaron automobile
> -- and
> people (the end-users, not the engineers) found all of this incredibly
> irritating. The single most requested option on the LeBaron, by far and
> away,
> was to have the speech generator deleted.
>
> Talking appliances were a technological fad that lasted only about three
> years, 1979-1982.
/NOSTALGIA = ON
Wow, this brings back a funny (well to me, anyway) memory. In 1983,
I used to service two way mobile radios for a Motorola Service
Center in Los Angeles. Typically, the customer would bring in his
car, explain the problem, and then wait in the lounge whil I worked
on it.
One day, this guy comes in with this big, shiny new luxury car (well,
maybe it was a Buick? Chrysler? anyway . .), with a broken two-way.
I'm sitting next to him in the front seat, and he's trying to explain
the trouble. The whole time, the car is saying <<The key is in the
IGNITION>>, <<The key is in the IGNITION>> . . . in a decidedly
mechanical pseudo-woman's voice.
The guy gets pissed, and angrily jerks the key out of the ignition
(shutting up the robot), and continues to tell me how he can't talk
to his dispatcher . . .
An hour goes by, and I replace a bad antenna and feed line, and clamp
down the BIG +12v lead, and so on. I start the engine, the radio
works ok, so I kill it, and head for the lounge where the customer is
waiting.
We step outside, I explain the work I did, and he signs the invoice.
As he turns towards the car, he asks me where are his keys. Using
the best mechanical voice I could muster I replied: <<The key is in
the IGNITION>>, <<The key is in the IGNITION>> . . .
/NOSTALGIA = OFF
Well, it was funny at the time.
You really had to have been there . . .
Jeff
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Disclaimer: |
| |
| These opinions are entirely my own, and in no way reflect the |
| policies or opinions of my employer. |
| |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
On Jun 25, 2:12, Tony Duell wrote:
> Alas I don't have Inside Macintosh, and the old volumes seem to be out of
> print. From what I rember, the keyboard sources the clock signal, and the
> data line is bidirectional. The Mac starts a transmission by pulling the
> data line low and releasing it, or something, doesn't it?
That's right.
> As to what the actual bytes mean, well, I've not hacked it yet.
Looks like I need a trip to the photocopier again :-)
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
At 02:34 PM 6/23/98 PDT, you wrote:
>A Mac II is a 68020 or higher machine, the descendant of regular macs.
>Video was on an expansion card. 5 NuBus slots, I think. Room for two
>hard drives and two floppy drives (If you could ship me the ROM and RAM
Actually, room for 2 floppies and 1 hard drive, either 3.5" or 5.25"
half-height. (I suppose, if you were really creative, you could mount a
3.5" hd where the second floppy went, but you might have power problems.)
Drives were mounted on a metal platform above the HD. Had 8 30-pin SIMM
slots; not sure what (if any) the max RAM was. Standard was probably 4Meg.
>Other models in this series were:
Mac IIx - 68030?
Mac IIfx
Mac IIvx (iirc)
All shared the larger, almost pc-like box. Pop-off top to the case, making
it easy to get inside, but you needed a special bracket to mount the hard
drive on (which then was mounted to the platform.)
>Mac IIci - Narrower case with one space for HDD, one for FDD, three
>slots, video on the board
Probably my favorite Mac case. Similar but different. About 2/3 the width
of the II. Drives are now stacked, with the Hard Drive simply snapping
into the case (once you put it in its custom carrier.) Memory is easy to
get at, still had 3 expansion slots. 68030 at 33mhz, on-board video.
IIcx used the same case (same, but no video, maybe slower CPU?)
>Mac IIsi - Same, but a more modern case
Slimmer case, slightly slower than the IIci (20mhz?). Similar to the LC
models. One non-nubus slot; adapters were available.
>>place today that said "Macintosh II", big long box... about 2.5 feet
If anyone's interested, I'll be bringing some mac II cases (with M/B & P/S,
but won't boot (prolly dead battery)) to VCF 2.0 to sell or trade. They're
machines that I got for Rachel's classroom, that I scrounged for parts.
She's getting tired of having a stack of mac's in her basement all the
time. (And if I get rid of those, plus some huge monitors she can't use,
she can store the computers from school at her place over the summer
instead of at my place.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
> I found this on another list I'm on. Is this of any interest to anyone
here?
$4,000 O.B.O.
Or you can just wait until someone gives you an first generation
RS/6000...
>
At work we have an old RS/6000 320H (25Mhz, 1st generation) sitting in a
corner, not used anymore as all our customers have replaced AIX with SCO
on a P II. Boss asked me last week if we could do something with it,
now I have an answer....
store it for a few more years then sell it as a collectible classic,
maybe we'll get more for it than we paid new. :)
Jack Peacock
At 10:16 PM 6/24/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> Woah, what's that all about? Something along the lines of "In a dark
>> future, a lone boy with the power of his trusty TANDY COCO saves the
>> galaxy from domination by the evil Q'OMMADOR Empire"? :)
Probably interactive fiction ala Zork etc. (Or possibly the kind where you
read a page, then at the bottom it says "If you try to negotiate with the
Q'Ommador Mneflug, turn to page 138. If you try to kill the Mneflug with
your Quoxicalt, turn to page 47. If you turn and run while waving your
appendages wildly, turn to page 302.")
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
At 09:42 PM 6/24/98 -0400, you wrote:
>'original' style of apple mouse. My question is whether this will work
DE-9 connector? Won't work with the classic. Ya need on with a round,
4-pin connector, about the size of a PS/2 keyboard connector.
>BTW - another question -- when the Mac Classic boots, it shows the smiley
>disk and I hear the internal HD working. The screen goes light grey with
>a pointer on it. This is displayed for a few seconds and then I get the
>'Welcome to Macintosh' screen.
So far so good. Sounds like the machine works.
>This remains this way for as much as 10
>minutes (I didn't wait longer). Is this normal? Have I simply not
Not normal at all. Most likely, you have a drive with a missing or
incomplete operating system on it. Your best bet is to find a local Mac
user group (or friendly mac user) and get them to make a copy of the OS
disks (v. 7.0 or 6.0.8). You can then boot from those disks and reinstall
the OS.
>allowed the system adequate time to boot to a user screen? (I'm used to
>an RT system which boots in about 30-45 seconds, depending on amount of
>memory).
The Mac should do about the same, again depending on the amount of memory
and the number of plug-ins it loads.
>one causes the 'Welcome to Macintosh' screen to go away and be replaced
>by one which lookes the same (banner background) but with a '>' sign...
Debugger. Dunno any more than that, I'm an applications programmer. 8^)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
Got a call from a woman with a Pet 2001 here in the bay area (east bay,
actually) plus some sloppy drives and such. Please give her a call if
you're interested. Her name is Asale Kimaada (Pronounced Uh-saw-luh
Kih-mah-duh) and her phone is 1-925-606-7239. She's looking for an honest
offer. She doesn't know what it's worth, (neither do I) but doesn't want
to be cheated. She apparently gets a lot of older stuff in, so being fair
would be good in the long run.
btw, she was at last year's VCF; she was near the exhibits on the left side
(looking towards the exhibits) iirc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
At 12:32 PM 6/24/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I don't suppose that anyone (Xerox?) taped this presentation did they? I
know I
>would love to see the demo and wouldn't mind paying to get a copy.
The guard I talked to said tapes would be available for $50/copy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
At 10:07 AM 6/24/98 -0700, you wrote:
>The Star presentation was certainly well attended -- it was packed to
>overflowing! I was out in the lobby watching the presentation on a
When we got there, the guard was (rather ineffectively) trying to turn
people away. We slipped past after I mumbled something about trying to
find some friends. The guard said the demo was originally scheduled for a
room that could handle 100 people.
His estimate was that there was at least 700 people there, but I don't
think he was counting the cafeteria in that estimate.
>Uncle Roger tried to make me hold up a classiccmp sign, I tried
[...]
> and date as Roger now wants to check and see whether his tap
> dancing lessons collide.
Oh, sure, make me sound like a complete weirdo. (Yes, I know it's true,
but you don't have to tell everybody. 8^) Btw, tap class is Fridays at 7,
so Thursdays are good.
>(c) So...fine, here's a time and place for all us Bay Areans to
> argue over: Second Thursday, 09 July 1998, 7:00 PM, El Paso Cafe,
> 1407 W El Camino Real, Mountain View. Y'all can flame me about
Can't guarantee I'll be there, but it sounds good in theory.
btw, Bruce Lane (iirc -- I'm lousy at names and don't pay too much
attention to headers & .sigs anyway) will be in town (SF) soon, if y'all
wanna try and coordinate something. (Also a visit to HMR is in order.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
Ha. You think that you're funny, don't you?
At my ex-school, I fount 30(!) Apple ][GS's, a ][C, A WHOLE BUNCH of
books, around 250 disks, lots of lab interface software, Grapler interfaces,
etc. Pretty cool.
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: kroma <kroma(a)worldnet.att.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, June 25, 1998 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: Loss of early UCSD P-System materials...
>
>>>Subject: UCSD Pascal
>>>
>>>Damn! I wish I'd known about your museum - last summer I helped clean
>>>out the lab that had been Ken Bowles and we found a bunch of 8-inch
stuff,
>>>old tapes, etc. which were trashed because no one wanted them. I'll look
>>>around here and see if there's anything left.
>>
>
>
>
>OH MY GOD, THEY KILLED KENNY!!! YOU BASTARDS!!!
>
>
>
>BTW - another question -- when the Mac Classic boots, it shows the
>smiley disk and I hear the internal HD working. The screen goes >light
grey with a pointer on it. This is displayed for a few seconds >and
then I get the 'Welcome to Macintosh' screen. This remains this >way
for as much as 10 minutes (I didn't wait longer). Is this >normal?
Definitely not. Try starting with extensions off (hold down the shift
key up until it shows that screen). Normal boot on a Classic should be
under a minute.
>Also, there are two buttons on the left side of the case... one
>apparently does the mac equivalent of the three-fingered-salute on
>PCs... the other one causes the 'Welcome to Macintosh' screen to go
>away and be replaced by one which lookes the same (banner background)
>but with a '>' sign...
>
>What is this?
>
You're right about the salute, the second one is a debug button. The >
sign is a prompt, at which you can look at memory and stuff. Typing 'G
FIND' will jump to the finder if it is running, which it isn't yet on
your system. The finder is a shell like command.com. It is completely
modular and can be replaced by another program, though not common. BTW,
how much did you pay for it?
> Megan Gentry
> Former RT-11 Developer
>
>| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com
|
>| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com
|
>| Digital Equipment Corporation |
|
>| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/
|
>| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler
|
>| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg
|
>+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I found this on another list I'm on. Is this of any interest to anyone
here?
(If so, please contact the original poster directly. Thanks)
----------------begin forwarded message---------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:39:03 -0700
From: Nathan Schwartz <nathan(a)apl.acsc.net>
To: Multiple recipients of list <web4lib(a)library.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RS6000
IBM RS6000 for sale
http://www.acsc.net/apl/rs6000.htm
The Anderson Public Library has an RS6000 that we are interested in
selling.
This system was purchased from Dynix Library Services in 1991 and has the
following features. RS6000 RISC 520/20 processor, AIX 3.3, 2.4Gigs on four
drives, 128Meg RAM, 2-64 port controllers, 2.3Gig 8mm Tape, 150MB 1/4
tape,
Ethernet High Performance LAN Adapter, IBM Printer 4224, Emerson UPS
AP130sb, Muxes, cables and documentation.
$4,000 O.B.O.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles P. Hobbs __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____
transit(a)primenet.com /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ /
/ / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ /
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>It certainly has been (and will continue to be) for me...
>>But seriously, since my workshop isn't open to the public, and almost
>>nobody knows who I am, where should %random_person go to find out
>>about real front panels, forerunners of Windows, etc. If not a science
>>museum, then where?
> The local public library. Get a comfy chair, sit in front of the
> terminal, call up lynx, get a hotmail account, and subscribe to the
> mailing list. Of course, if the library has some back issues of computer
> magazines or computer history books, those never hurt either ;) A museum
> is generally considered to be a 'fun place' and though it is possible
> to learn quite a bit, they can't beat reading a good book (though they
> are a visual compendium).
Hmm I think you should come to Munich and visit the Deutsches
Museum. A slow walk thru the chemical section (for example)
could tell you the same story than a book, but you will also
_see_ whats hapening when two chemicals mix up. You still have
to read - there is plenty of text ro read - sometimes the
equivalent of 5 or 6 book pages only for one show case, and
ar far as I remember the chemical section has more than 100
of this hands on cases.
Shure, tunning thru and press every butten wont result in
any information - but just browsing thru a chemical book
either.
> BTW, the Boston Computer Museum has a very
> good history section. Books like 'A Secret Guide To Computers' also
> educate quite a bit. Lastly, since you're so worried about this (we all
> are, I hope) why not just write a book?
:) - Hereby I oder one copy.
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
> >there are only two kinds of mac mouses: 9 pin for plus and earlier and adb
> for
> >se and later models. i've never heard of anything else. as for slow booting,
> Offtopic by about 10 years:
> We just got in a Motorola 603e StarMax mac clone a few months ago at work.
> I loved this machine! It had both ADB connectors AND PS/2 style connectors.
> It also had a standard DB25 serial port connector on it. IMHO, this would
> have been a good step for Apple to make say about 5 or 6 years ago.
Apple is just doing this step in a far better direction: They
change to USB (at least thats what they told us at WWDC) and
the iMac is the first to excange ADB for USB. Not using PS/2
wasn't so bad at all - ADB is a lot more convienient since
I connect the mouse to the kbd nut the cpu.
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
>>Subject: UCSD Pascal
>>
>>Damn! I wish I'd known about your museum - last summer I helped clean
>>out the lab that had been Ken Bowles and we found a bunch of 8-inch stuff,
>>old tapes, etc. which were trashed because no one wanted them. I'll look
>>around here and see if there's anything left.
>
OH MY GOD, THEY KILLED KENNY!!! YOU BASTARDS!!!
> this isn't really "classic" per se, but...
It's the classic Mac-IDE question.
And the answer is simple no.
> I grabbed a performa 636cd, w/ a 500mb ide drive. being curious i
> ripped out the 1-connector ide cable and connected a 2-connector; the
> mac ide quantum (which specifically says "apple" on it...) was set as
> master, and i popped a seagate on as a slave. no boot unless i popped in
> the mac disk tools. if i take off the 2nd ide drive, it boots. being a
> total mac idiot, is it even possible to use a ATA ide drive on a mac? or
> is there something else to this that i'm missing? any help would be
> gratefully appreciated. thanks.
Yes_and_no to all questions. It's just that Apple only suports
one _one_ IDE drive. Almost any drive work correctly, but you
need third party setup software like HDT.
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
At 12:35 AM 6/25/98 -0500, Uncle Roger wrote:
>Mac IIx - 68030?
>Mac IIfx
>Mac IIvx (iirc)
I'm not sure about the IIvx either, but I do have a Mac IIx sitting here.
Main difference was just a little boost on the proc speed over the Mac II.
Question: Will any nubus card work in any mac with a nubus slot? (I'm
talking standard form, one piece card, not the little two piece connected
jobbies found on the SI/LC etc.)
-
- john higginbotham ____________________________
- webmaster www.pntprinting.com -
- limbo limbo.netpath.net -
At 10:54 PM 6/24/98 EDT, SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com wrote:
>there are only two kinds of mac mouses: 9 pin for plus and earlier and adb
for
>se and later models. i've never heard of anything else. as for slow booting,
Offtopic by about 10 years:
We just got in a Motorola 603e StarMax mac clone a few months ago at work.
I loved this machine! It had both ADB connectors AND PS/2 style connectors.
It also had a standard DB25 serial port connector on it. IMHO, this would
have been a good step for Apple to make say about 5 or 6 years ago.
-
- john higginbotham ____________________________
- webmaster www.pntprinting.com -
- limbo limbo.netpath.net -
there are only two kinds of mac mouses: 9 pin for plus and earlier and adb for
se and later models. i've never heard of anything else. as for slow booting,
you might want to run disk first aid if you have it on your machine. i think
you need to boot off a floppy and run it from there for it to check and fix
any problems it finds. those two buttons you found is the programmer's switch.
one does a reboot and the other brings you to a system monitor prompt.
supposedly useful for those that know what to do.
david
In a message dated 98-06-24 21:43:32 EDT, megan writes:
<< Speaking of Mac Mice... At the MIT Flea this past weekend, I picked up
a mouse for the Mac Classic I mentioned in other mail... it is the
'original' style of apple mouse. My question is whether this will work
correctly with the Mac Classic -- it does seem to plug in, but since I'm
not getting much response from the system, I don't know...
BTW - another question -- when the Mac Classic boots, it shows the smiley
disk and I hear the internal HD working. The screen goes light grey with
a pointer on it. This is displayed for a few seconds and then I get the
'Welcome to Macintosh' screen. This remains this way for as much as 10
minutes (I didn't wait longer). Is this normal? Have I simply not
allowed the system adequate time to boot to a user screen? (I'm used to
an RT system which boots in about 30-45 seconds, depending on amount of
memory).
Also, there are two buttons on the left side of the case... one apparently
does the mac equivalent of the three-fingered-salute on PCs... the other
one causes the 'Welcome to Macintosh' screen to go away and be replaced
by one which lookes the same (banner background) but with a '>' sign...
What is this?
>>
At 02:40 PM 6/23/98 -0700, you wrote:
>about it. But we invest time and money and passion into this hobby, and I
>don't think its wrong to take advantage of a good deal when one comes
In the long run, it probably offsets the times we spend more than we should
to make sure something important isn't destroyed (including paying for
storage units, etc.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
At 10:43 PM 6/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I'll trade it for an Altair and an Apple 1 and most importantly, one of
those rare
>black AppleIIplus's.
Oh sure, I gots lots of those... 8^)
>What the heck is a FlatCat (uh oh, me thinks I just set myself up here).
Laptop version of the Cat.
>It doesn't have cursor keys, or a pointing device. It uses these two
'leap' keys
Yeah, that's it. Pretty cool.
>Let me know when you get the Apple 1 and I'll dig the Cat out and send it to
>you :)
Ummm,, you don't mind if there's a little bit of white-out spilled next to
where it says "Apple ]" do you? 8^)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
Who do I have to kill?
Are they so black you can see your reflection in them? :)
Grant..
Software Engineer, Hitec Aberdeen.
Kevan Heydon <kevan(a)heydon.org> on 06/26/98 04:47:49 PM
Please respond to classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
cc:
Subject: Re: NeXT cubes or slabs.
Speaking of NeXTs, I have just got a lead on some available in the UK. The
mail I got is:
Unconfirmed reports are that I may be able to lay my hands on, like,
TWENTY NeXT slabs for the princely sum of 70 quid each. My mind
immediately turns to CamNet and the denizens within as sinks for such
wonderful but antique hardware. Note that if you want a 17" colour
monitor, then that is at the ultimate ripoff price of another 60 quid.
Both figures EXCLUDE VAT at the usual rate, apparently.
Machine specs are:
TurboColour NeXTStation.
68040/33 / 32MB / 500MB SCSI
+ Keyboard + Mouse + Soundbox. (as black as, like, the blackest thing -
none more black)
(1138x932@12bit)
Monitors:
NeXT MegaPixel Colour Monitors (Black cool case)
17" @ 60 quid
21" @ 150 quid
If you are interested then drop me an email and I will coordinate things
with the person I got this email from.
--
Kevan
Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/
Today I found the company, Techniques, Inc. in Englewood, New Jersey, that
made the printed circuit boards for the "Radio Electronics" Mark 8 computer.
They are in the same location as in 1973. Afaik, they have no web site
or email. I called them to ask if they could look for
any material, or any information, like how many board sets were made or sold.
I found nothing. They first thought that "Mark 8 microcomputer" was the name
of another company. I finally found someone who said the company was bought
in 1987, and that all information before then was gone.
I've also learned that the printed circuit boards were 2-sided, but had no
plated-thru holes. This may have caused problems to IC solder connections,
making reliability problems. I don't know if this would make buyers abandon
them making the numbers larger or smaller than otherwise.
-Dave
this isn't really "classic" per se, but...
I grabbed a performa 636cd, w/ a 500mb ide drive. being curious i
ripped out the 1-connector ide cable and connected a 2-connector; the
mac ide quantum (which specifically says "apple" on it...) was set as
master, and i popped a seagate on as a slave. no boot unless i popped in
the mac disk tools. if i take off the 2nd ide drive, it boots. being a
total mac idiot, is it even possible to use a ATA ide drive on a mac? or
is there something else to this that i'm missing? any help would be
gratefully appreciated. thanks.
-Eric
John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> wrote:
> Here's an excerpt of a posting that triggered my IMSAI smart agent.
> Does anyone recognize his name, or the company he's describing?
> From: Wirt Atmar <WirtAtmar(a)AOL.COM>
Yes. Your next step on the road to enlightenment is to webulate to
http://www.aics-research.com/history.html and follow the next-page
links through to the end.
-Frank McConnell
Found this on usenet, don't know if any of you like that CoCO stuff.
just thought i'd pass it along. please reply to him directly.
-Eric
><osc1(a)isd.net>
> Tandy CoCo sets. One is a box of rare CoCo stuff: books (fiction books
> CoCo based, how-to program books, manuals, catalogs etc), connectors (I
> don't even recall what half of them are), lots of cartridges (games,
> etc), all fairly rare and cool. The other set is a CoCo III, with a
> couple of joysticks, and five could game carts... a mini TV included!
> Each set is $20.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Carty Fox
> St. Paul, MN
<osc1(a)isd.net>
>> And anyway, a number of S100 cards included boot ROMs, etc. Those need to
>> be backed up.
>
> Shure, but where ? Just on a disk ? I already have the problem
> that I can't read some fd's of the early 80s. Even APPLE II disks,
> althrough I always said that a DISK ][ drive could read and write
> anything including Bierdeckl (beer mats/coasters).
>
> So, what to use ? Writable CDs ? They have only a guaranteed
> lifetime of less than 15 years. Tapes ? Maybe - I have some
> PBS Tapes from 1976 and they are still readable, but they are
> 900 and 1600 BpI tapes. Any modern optical and magnetical
> medium is less reliable. So printing the hex dump and then try
> to scan it back (ocr) when a replacement is needed ?
> This sould be reliable, since it is human readable
> (Like old magnetic tapes).
Paper tape, of course!
There is an action on me from this list last year (I think) to
investigate the possibility of Tyvek tapes. I still intend to do it,
but I don't know when!
Philip.
This past weekend, I picked up a few cases for SCSI disks... they have
a device on the back panel which allows one to select the SCSI id by
just pushing one of two buttons until the proper ID shows... I've
used a VOM to figure out which wires from this thing are what, but the
connector it same with is not compatible with the (as far as I can tell)
standard of three sets of jumper-width pins.
I'd like to button this thing up so I don't have to open it again (except
to replace a bad disk) but can't find anything which fits the spacing of
these pins...
For those for whom this info would be useful in telling the spacing, the
disks are RZ35s (from DEC). I don't know who actually produces them.
Any help appreciated...
My next plan is to try one of the inter-board connectors (one board has a
socket and one has pins)... the socket connector seems to have proper
spacing, but I've yet to actualy try it...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com |
| Digital Equipment Corporation | |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Here's an excerpt of an e-mail I received recently from
an admin at the UCSD computing center, where the UCSD P-System
was developed. Ken Bowles was one of the primary forces
behind the P-System, and wrote an early popular Pascal text.
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
>Subject: UCSD Pascal
>
>Damn! I wish I'd known about your museum - last summer I helped clean
>out the lab that had been Ken Bowles and we found a bunch of 8-inch stuff,
>old tapes, etc. which were trashed because no one wanted them. I'll look
>around here and see if there's anything left.
Here's an excerpt of a posting that triggered my IMSAI smart agent.
Does anyone recognize his name, or the company he's describing?
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
Subject: Re: WRQ's @Guard
From: Wirt Atmar <WirtAtmar(a)AOL.COM>
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 15:07:56 EDT
Message-ID: <3dda660e.358c088e(a)aol.com>
Mailing List: HP3000-L(a)utcvm.utc.edu
....
Just because something is possible doesn't mean that anybody's gonna want
it.
The very first business that AICS was involved in was computer-based speech
synthesis. Indeed, that's where our name comes from (AICS = artificially
intelligent cybernetic systems). The company grew out of something that had
previously been just a hobby of mine -- and a potential dissertation project
for graduate school: completely host-based speed synthesis, de novo,
where an
electrical analog of the human vocal tract was commanded to truly synthesize
new speech rather than simply play back digitized human speech.
In 1976, when I finished school and the company was formed, we actually
made a
lot of money surprisingly easily and surprising quickly selling speech
synthesizers as drop-in boards for Altair and IMSAI microcomputers. That
was a
time you could sell anybody anything. Every conference was a feeding
frenzy of
buying. You threw something up in the air and ten people wanted it.
In 1976 also, when I became a professor at our local university, several
students also continued on with the speech synthesis work. Vickie Kurtz, a
person who you actually sort of know because she is more or less single-
handedly putting together QCTerm now, did her master's work with me then.
For
her thesis, Vickie put together the best vowel synthesizer that I ever
heard,
using voltage-controlled oscillators, controlled by a simple rom-based
finite
state automaton so as to simulate the mechanical inertias found in the vocal
tract. Although her synthesizer didn't have any sort of noise generator
in it,
so it couldn't form the fricatives (hiss-like sounds) necessary for full
speech synthesis, its vowels were the most human-like I've ever heard and
were
essentially indistinguishable from a baby's babbling or cat-like animal.
Vickie finished in 1982.
A year or two earlier, Texas Instruments got into speech synthesis in a big
way using a technique halfway between digitized speech and speech
synthesis, a
process that might now be called "smoothed sampling". It worked much better
than true synthesis in that its intelligiblity was quite good. Because of
that, TI was able to sell a variety of manufacturers on the idea of having
talking washing machines, microwave ovens, vaccuum cleaners, etc. The most
expensive of these talking machines was the Chrysler LeBaron automobile
-- and
people (the end-users, not the engineers) found all of this incredibly
irritating. The single most requested option on the LeBaron, by far and
away,
was to have the speech generator deleted.
Talking appliances were a technological fad that lasted only about three
years, 1979-1982.
...
Wirt Atmar
Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:
> > IIRC, the Star had both a custom microcoded CPU and had an 8080 (or 8085)
> > to handle I/O.
>
> I believe 8080 is correct (remember, the design was started in the 1975
> timeframe, but did extend into 1981 when it was released). The 8085 is
> circa 1976. Why didn't I take better notes!? ;)
Yeah, me too. But this is where I stopped: it was an 8085.
...
The Star presentation was certainly well attended -- it was packed to
overflowing! I was out in the lobby watching the presentation on a
monitor, and apparently there were other folks watching other monitors
in the cafeteria. Anyway, that is why I gave up on notes -- couldn't
concentrate on the palmtop keyboard and the monitor at the same time.
Afterward a bunch of us did get together outside the auditorium lobby,
Uncle Roger tried to make me hold up a classiccmp sign, I tried
waving my appendages a bit whenever I saw someone I recognized, and
somehow I think we completely missed Rax. Sorry about that, Rax.
I will try to plan better next time.
So who was there? Roger Sinasohn, Rachel ? (Uncle Roger's girlfriend
-- the schoolteacher who is always on the lookout for Macs), Doug
Yowza, Doug Coward, Paul Coad, Sam Ismail, Edwin El-Kareh, and y'r
humble narrator. Stuff was swapped, stories were exchanged, we moved
to the parking lot, yakked some more, then security came around,
someone made the mistake of asking me where to go and I suggested the
El Paso Cafe in Mountain View. (Hey, I know *I* can get some
good cheap eats there.)
Notes:
(a) At least some of us seem to want to do this get-together
thing again. Of course we did not reach any consensus w/r/t time
and date as Roger now wants to check and see whether his tap
dancing lessons collide.
(b) We need to start earlier, 9:00 PM is late for dinner and
the El Paso closes at 10:00. Other places close earlier than
that.
(c) So...fine, here's a time and place for all us Bay Areans to
argue over: Second Thursday, 09 July 1998, 7:00 PM, El Paso Cafe,
1407 W El Camino Real, Mountain View. Y'all can flame me about
this in public or private, and I'm still open to change, but I want
to announce the real time and place on 30 June.
-Frank McConnell
At 05:55 PM 24-06-98 -0400, William Donzelli wrote:
>CD-ROMs have the advantage that they are far more widespread than any of
>the above disks ever dreamed to be. They are world standards, as oppossed
>to company-specific standards. With the music industry behind them,
>CD-ROMs will be around for a long time.
Indeed, and with DVD being able to read CDs you'd expect no difficulty in
reading CDs for the next 20 years or so. I'd certainly want to be able to
listen to my music CDs for that sort of time-span. In fact, with the number
of CDs I have, if I listened to a couple a week, it'd take 20 years :-)
Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au
Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"
On Jun 24, 23:38, Tony Duell wrote:
> > > So, how easy is it to crock up a keyboard and mouse for either
machine?
> > > Can I modify IBM gear to fit the bill?
Not for the keyboard, it uses 8 data bits with no start/stop/parity bits
and a separate clock; XT keyboards use 8 data bits with 2 start bits, 1
make/break bit, and a stop bit; AT/PS2 keyboards use 1 start bit, 8 data
bits, 1 parity bit, 1 stop bit.
> > null modem enclosure). The keyboard is Mac proprietary.
>
> Yes, it's _strange_. 4 wires, +5V, Data, Clock, Ground. The mac end uses
> the shift register in a 6522, the keyboard end uses a microcontroller
> (8021?). Given a keyboard the protocol is probably hackable with a logic
> analyser (future project?),
Yes, it is an 8021. The protocol is in "Inside Macintosh", Vol. III
pp30-32. It's fairly simple, though it's bi-directional.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
>It certainly has been (and will continue to be) for me...
>
>But seriously, since my workshop isn't open to the public, and almost
>nobody knows who I am, where should %random_person go to find out
>about real front panels, forerunners of Windows, etc. If not a science
>museum, then where?
>-tony
The local public library. Get a comfy chair, sit in front of the
terminal, call up lynx, get a hotmail account, and subscribe to the
mailing list. Of course, if the library has some back issues of computer
magazines or computer history books, those never hurt either ;) A museum
is generally considered to be a 'fun place' and though it is possible
to learn quite a bit, they can't beat reading a good book (though they
are a visual compendium). BTW, the Boston Computer Museum has a very
good history section. Books like 'A Secret Guide To Computers' also
educate quite a bit. Lastly, since you're so worried about this (we all
are, I hope) why not just write a book?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>>>> And anyway, a number of S100 cards included boot ROMs, etc. Those need to
>>>>> be backed up.
>>>> Shure, but where ? Just on a disk ? I already have the problem
>>> On paper tape, of course. It's reliable (I've never found a tape that
>>> can't be read), human-readable, and the automatic readers are simple
>>> enough to be repairable...
>> Jep. Good choice - I still have some paper tabes from the mid
>> 70s in fine condition - but I also know (remembering the past)
>> how fast they break...
> Paper tapes can be spliced if they break (did I mention I had a splicing
> jig and tapes here...). An a good reader shouldn't break the tape anyway.
> As an aside, paper tape holes are at 0.1" spacing. You can make a
> useable splicing jig by soldering a row of pins to a piece of stripboard
> (say at 0.3" spacing), and using those to hold the sprocket track on the
> tape.
So, what you tellin' me ? I've been in the repair business for
these devices some time around 1980 *grin*
>>>> So, what to use ? Writable CDs ? They have only a guaranteed
>>>> lifetime of less than 15 years. Tapes ? Maybe - I have some
>>>> PBS Tapes from 1976 and they are still readable, but they are
>>>> 900 and 1600 BpI tapes. Any modern optical and magnetical
>>> You can pack a lot of ROM dumps on a 1600bpi magtape....
>> Shure, but 1600 BpI is the first density not readable
>> to humans. Again insecure.
> But some 1600bpi drives are _always_ repairable. And the format is
> sufficiently well documented that a drive could always be made.
Almost, yes, and for the formats also yes - but not the media.
I had even new taps failing to record.
>>>> Or just put it again on EPROMS - with propper handling
>>>> EPROMS could survive at least 50+ years - and PROMS
>>> Never!. I'd not trust an EPROM to last longer than 10 years. Nor any
>>> other chip for that matter. Sure, a lot of them will, but some won't. And
>>> if it's the last copy in the world, you've got problems.
>> EPROMS are a real lot more reliable than any other media.
> I've had EPROMs fail. I've had floppy disks fail. Never had a 9-track
> tape fail, though. Never really lost any data because I've had it backed
> up...
Maybe just our different past - I have seen almost any kind
of magnetic media fail but never EPROMS.
>> And any magnetic media is crap for long time archival.
>> Just ask some (ausio) tape fans about tapes from the 60s.
> Oh, I don't know. I've managed to play 1960's reel-to-reel audio tapes
> (and early 19790's video tapes, reel and cassette) with no real
> problems. If you pick a suitably redundant format for the data I suspect
> it'll be OK.
Managed to play and recovering all information are
different things.
And back to CDs (to reunite the two threads):
Theres a huge difference between your listed magnetic things
and CDs - the music sector - I bet any summ you want that
there will be new drives in 20 years from now, able to read
a CD made today (if the CD contend isn't damaged of course).
I'm not talking about any specific drive of today - your
right - its even dificult to get a custom chip just 2.5 years
after the drive. Its about drives that are _able_ to read
the backup medias.
And for Zip - you're also right - I think, like you,
that Zip or syquests will be forgotten in less than
15 years (for _new_ installments).
Serus
Hans
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
Sorry for this administrivia, but if anyone cares I posted a new e-mail
address a short while ago. Please disregard this address. My primary
e-mail address still remains dastar(a)wco.com, and you may also e-mail me at
sam(a)siconic.com or though the Vintage Computer Festival web pages
(http://www.siconic.com/vcf).
Again, sorry for the interruption.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 06/11/98]
> On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Allison J Parent wrote:
>> <Shure, but where ? Just on a disk ? I already have the problem
>> <that I can't read some fd's of the early 80s. Even APPLE II disks,
>> <althrough I always said that a DISK ][ drive could read and write
>> <anything including Bierdeckl (beer mats/coasters).
>> Disks on good equipment are as reliable as Magtape.
> Better, I think, as with disks you need not be concerned with layer to
> layer adhesion or layer to layer transfer.
Maybe I shoud take some damaged 5,25" disks to the VCF
to show the effects of fd aging. It's a real mess when
the magnetic surface is tearing down. I have dozends
of deffect _mecanical_ disks and already ruined five
drives - and it took me about 6 hours (and one damaged
head) to clean one and get it back working.
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
Below is a description of the "paper floppy disk" as given by
an old friend of mine, Dennis Adams <DAdams(a)etcconnect.com>,
who once worked on this technology.
- John
The "Paper Floppy Disk"
Newslog International (aka Lab1) developed technology for recording up
to 30-50K of data on a printed piece of cardstock approximately 6" x 4".
The data was recorded with error detection and correction information
(Reed-Soloman, I believe), as well as redundant groups, so it could
withstand misprints, marks, holes, and other flaws. This was all pre-CD,
and the cost was very cheap. One of the names for them was TDB's for
Transportable Databases. They were intended for software distribution,
database updates, games on the back of cereal boxes, etc.
Each track was a
portion of a circle (about 1/10 of the circumference). The reader had a
large (approx. 14") spinning wheel, and supported variable track pitch and
data bits per inch (so different quality paper and printing processes could
be supported), and could track media that was not cut square by skewing the
tray that held the media (since there was no physical or optical "center" on
the media -- it had a virtual movable "hole" to spin on). It used a Z80
microprocessor (running extremely tweaked assembly language by Al Jewer) and
interfaced to a computer via "high-speed" RS-232 (9600 bps).
I did demo
software on a variety of hosts, including the Storm operating system
(multi-user CP/M OS by Ron Fowler, also the author of the popular MEX
communications software), Commodore 64, and IBM-PC XT. We had a Coleco Adam
computer that we briefly considered writing something for, but it never
stayed running long enough to evaluate.
We did a multi-month trial of a
large database update for a large company based in Moline. We sent out
three months of updates to a 13M database. Each update was a half-dozen or
so cards that could be scanned in any order and then the update was applied
to the database. This was run at three dealerships that could retrieve
up-to-date database information much faster than their microfiche system
which was always out-of-date. It also displayed additional textual
information that was on other microfiche or books and not usually
referenced. This was circa 1985, and was quite impressive to the people who
used it. So much so that the actual media technology took a back seat to
the database system itself (an interesting lesson to be learned there).
Newslog / Lab1 ran out of money before the technology could be completely
finished and sold or marketed. Not that they didn't try. I learned a lot
about "demos" and "demospeak" while I worked there. I still have some media
around, but alas no reader. I'm willing to bet it could be read by a modern
high-res scanner. An energetic soul could probably even write a reader
emulator that fed the bits that it peeled radially from the high-res scan
into the actual Z80 reader code to decode it.
The best anecdote I recall regarding the technology was in the "camera"
software that generated the film original used for duplication: the base
unit of measurement was derived from the bits-per-track and camera wheel
speed and other factors I've forgotten. All of the internal calculations
were based on this "tick", which varied in actual length, but was
approximately 1mS. The camera system's author was Bill Whitford, and the
unit of measurement henceforth became known as a "willisecond." Bill's code
ran on a much larger processor with a lot of memory (I think it might have
been a 4Mhz Z80 with 64K of memory), so he development in C.
This is roundabout. I work at an ISP. I have to figure out how to work
a Macintosh, so as to explain to customers how to set theirs up. This
sounds reasonable - so the salesguy produces a Mac SE. Unfortunately, it
has no mouse or keyboard. SO I go about looking around. Can't afford $90
for a mouse and keyboard that the only-Mac-shop-in-town has, so I go looking
for used stuff. I turn up a Macintosh 512K (Sadly abused. The people
KEPT IT IN THE GARAGE SO TI WOULDN'T GIVE THEIR VCR A COMPUTER VIRUS.)
Unfortunately, it is also missing the keyboard and mouse.
So, how easy is it to crock up a keyboard and mouse for either machine?
Can I modify IBM gear to fit the bill?
As for the virus bit, that is 100% true! Their frind told them it could
spread thru the power lines. :)
More information on either box would be appreciated...
-------
But a mouse is a mouse, isn't it? I think it is possible to adapt a PC
mouse to a mac...not the keyboard, though. There was a site on the net
dealing with these things, but I think it might be gone. It would be
much easier for the plus, btw, since it doesn't use ADB
>Sorry, this is mac! you cant adapt pc stuff for this. the se and >later
use ADB, with mini-din connectors. plus and earlier use a db9 >style
mouse and phone cord keyboard. i doubt either can be adapted. >id love
to find some mac plus keyboards and mouses so i can sell a >bunch of
macs i have myself.
>
>In a message dated 98-06-24 14:05:01 EDT, you write:
>
><< Unfortunately, it is also missing the keyboard and mouse.
>
> So, how easy is it to crock up a keyboard and mouse for either
machine?
> Can I modify IBM gear to fit the bill?
>
> As for the virus bit, that is 100% true! Their frind told them it
could
> spread thru the power lines. :) >>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>like a storage back yard than a museum. Just putin some maybe
>>similar things in one space, without any description or system.
> The system appeals to kids who enjoy running around and pushing buttons.
> The fact that 'the big dig' was next to ship models were next to trains
> and cars were next to stuff about DNA does make me wonder...
Big dig ? Oh sorry - did I mix up the name ?
>>The tragedy is that some are real nice things, but without
>>proper integration even the best exhibit is just crap no matter
>>if hands on or not. In contrast to the basic exhibitions, special
> Has anyone been to the Boston Museum of Natural History? Now _that_ is
> well organised and old fashioned. Endless rooms of glass cases with
> everything imaginable (The New York one is considerably less
> informative).
Thank - I put it on my to-do list. Where is ist located ?
Easy to find ?
Servus
Hans
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
Sorry, this is mac! you cant adapt pc stuff for this. the se and later use
ADB, with mini-din connectors. plus and earlier use a db9 style mouse and
phone cord keyboard. i doubt either can be adapted. id love to find some mac
plus keyboards and mouses so i can sell a bunch of macs i have myself.
In a message dated 98-06-24 14:05:01 EDT, you write:
<< Unfortunately, it is also missing the keyboard and mouse.
So, how easy is it to crock up a keyboard and mouse for either machine?
Can I modify IBM gear to fit the bill?
As for the virus bit, that is 100% true! Their frind told them it could
spread thru the power lines. :) >>
