- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

i've never had a problem cracking macs. needless to say, dont even try to use a screwdriver to seperate it at the seam; you'll only ruin the plastic! the first way is to remove all the screws and lay the mac with the tube down in your lap. put your hands around thebottom corners of the mac, and then use your thumbs to push against the DB connectors back there. since you're actually then pushing against the system board inside, that usually does it. if that doesnt work, on to step 2. for step 2, thread the top two screws in, but only a few turns. DO NOT tighten them down! use your torx bit tool or whatever, and then push or lightly hammer on your tool. by doing this, you're acutally applying pressure through the loosened screws to the front half of the mac. that usually pops it loose. you can apply the same technique to the bottom screws also. i've done this to all compact macs except for the classic and cc models since i dont own one. hope i explained it clearly. david In a message dated 98-06-27 21:57:49 EDT, john higganbotham put forth: << Also, seems that every compact mac I have messed with has already had the case popped (according to the marks). What do I do if I come across a virgin that's never been popped so to speak? Is it harder to get the case off? >>

28 years, 1 month

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OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<ObCC-Q: What was the first microprocessor-based box to run Unix? < <ObCC-A: The Z8000-based Onyx C8002 in 1980. I think that missed the unix V5 or V6 varients that ran on DEC LSI-11 and 11/23(later on). Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Inventory Control (was Re: "No name" S-100 computer)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> wrote: > Well, the DMV seems to have solved this problem -- I can never get my > license plate stickers off, even after 10+ years :-) Ha! I got an 8-year stack off mine late last year. Not because the adhesive let go though, the reflective paint on the plate did! But while I don't mind sticking that stuff on my license plates (after all, they're DMV property), I don't think I'd want to use it directly on artifacts! On storage bins/boxes, bags, and tags would be OK though. > And there's always good card stock tags and steel wire. Good choice, though I've been using the ones with string (vs. wire) to tag printed-circuit boards and some other things that look susceptible. > For the most part, I'm getting by > now with cardboard boxes and magic markers, but that renders my barcode > scanners useless, and it means that I usually stop short of writing the > entire contents on the box (due to laziness). Y'know, I've thought about barcode tagging a little bit, and I'm not sure how it would help, besides saving me from keying an object's item number to find the database record for this thing which I must be able to at least see, after all I can scan its barcode tag, right? > > OK, that said, the schema of my database looks something like this > [...] > > Looks good. I'll probably steal this, if you don't mind. No problem. If you have ideas for improvement feel free to share. Right now I'm thinking about whether the "notes" field should be split out into several note/memo fields for notes about relationships with other items, condition, work needing to be done, and other miscellany. That I lumped all this together in one note was part lack of knowledge about how I was going to use the note field in practice, and part architectural limitation of the in-ROM database software on the 100LX/200LX (which won't let you have more than one note field per record). > I'm a portable, wireless, and web zealot. I'll probably run the database > on one of my home Linuxboxen, which I can talk to via various > wireless-networked portables. (I have to admit that most of the wireless > portables are non-classic, but one of them is an early NEC CP/M portable > with a late 80's AirShare device.) This would free you from the memory > constraints of your HP200LX. (Did I mention that I have some PCMCIA > wireless LAN cards available for sale or trade?) Memory constraints? Don't be fooled by that "2MB RAM" logo above the screen, this 200LX has a 32MB RAMdisk daughterboard from Times2Tech. It's like having a turbo PC/XT in the palm of my hand. I'll give you points for using k00l technology to solve your problem, but I don't think it'd work for me. Most of my collection is not stored where I live, and between the storage locations, home, work, and some of the places I go in pursuit of Stuff, I think it'd be hard to pull off a "wireless LAN". They just aren't that local, nor are they line-of-sight in any way, nor are they all inside coverage areas excepting maybe cellphone coverage. Not that I care much -- my solution is aimed at answering my decaying-neuron questions, namely "have I got any of these?", "where are they?", and "are they so screwed up that I should be looking for another example?" As it happens it also will work pretty well for answering "what's in this box?" because I've got the box's ID in the location field, so can pull up all the records with a given box ID to get my answer. Well, it'd work that way if I actually had the inventory *done*. That's the other part of the problem, I think I'm less than 1/5 there, and what is done is in several pieces that correspond to various points in the evolution of this thing. The further I go, the more I learn. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

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FS: OLD calculators, computers, telephones, & software.

by kstumpf＠unusual.on.ca

I'm trying to practice what I preach. I've written a book called A Guide To Collecting Computers and Computer Collectibles: History, Practice, and Technique. In it I recommend you should define and refine your collection to help maximize the pleasure you can obtain from it. Well I've decided to stick with my first love - mainframes with big control panels - and sell the rest. Sample of what you'll find in this message: o Millionaire calculators o Xerox Star o MOS Technologies KIM-1 o Convergent Technologies Workslate o Northern Telecom DV-1 telephone terminal o IBM PC LAN software. PLEASE SEND YOUR OFFERS AND QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME - NOT THROUGH THE LIST OR NEWSGROUP. P.S. I thought the Classiccomp list would like to see the calculators and telephones built into terminals also. I have the following items for sale: CALCULATORS ----------------------- Burroughs huge, black, hand crank, wide platten, 9x9 keyboard, window between front edge and keyboard, extra ribbon, Made in Canada seems to work and in good condition Egli, Hans, of Zurich Millionaires - one 16 digit (#1776) and one 20 digit (#2607) good condition Facit CI 13 working and in very good condition Friden STW Automatic Calculator with plastic cover no power cord, but in very good condition Monroe 145, made in Western Germany good condition National model 750207, 67-HX-5" huge, brown, hand crank not working, but in very good condition Remington Rand black, hand crank, wide platten not working, but in good condition HP HP-25 in original box and carrying case owner's manual, applications programs manual, quick reference guide, and ac adapter not working, but in very good condition Olympia CD 71 in carrying case with instruction booklet, ac adapter without plug to the calculator very good condition TI TI 30 with carrying case very good condition TI TI Programmable 59 Solid State Software lots of original keyboard templates, Master Library Modules, magnetic storage strips and read head cleaning strips, pocket case for templates, modules, and strips 9 calculators, but only 2 battery packs very good condition COMPUTERS --------------------- Apple III, 256K with monitor the following is all original manuals, diskettes, jackets, and boxes: o System Software, SOS, Utilities, and Emulation software and documentation. o Universal Parallel Interface and software driver, Visicalc sampler, Apple Writer III, Business BASIC, Business Graphics, System Demo, Maillist Manager, Letter Quality Printer Demo all in very good condition Apple Lisa 2 in original box only powered on twice original brochures and demos very good condition Convergent Tech Workslate original everything! working, in mint condition Data General One (2207) all original accessories and software: o carrying case, AC adapter, battery recharger, no name acoustic coupler cups, expansion adapter, DOS 2.11, Owner's Manual, Pocket Reference works in very good condition Dynalogic Hyperion 3032 - Agile OEM version (also Bytec) the following is all original: carrying case, Setup Guide, User Guide, Technical Ref Guide, Multiplan, In:Scribe, BASIC, In-Touch, Aladin working in very good condition Epson QX-10 (Q701A) no keyboard or monitor cables loaded with Valdocs software and user and developer documentation in good condition HP 150 Touch Screen PC w/9133D very good condition HP 150 Touch Screen PC w/9122D and HP-IB cable very good condition HP Portable Plus with original carrying case, AC adapter, Owner's manual IBM 5100 (C02), 5103 dot matrix printer original carrying case (weighs 60lb!) IBM 5100 binder containing: o original sales literature o original invoice o BASIC manual and 12 s/w or data tape cartridges works, but keyboard has problems very good condition IBM PCjr in large IBM attache case includes original AC adapter, TV Receiver VHF Terminal, Operating Instruction manual, and sampler diskette. MOS Technology KIM-1 original everything! in mint condition Modular Micros Zorba (Gemini GC-200) (div of Modcomp) works, very good condition North Star Horizon very good condition Xerox Star (8010) not working displays xxx msg very good condition Zenith ZFL-171-42 portable original carrying case and Owner's Manual, but copy of DOS 2 boot diskette. not working, in very good condition TELEPHONES ---------------------- AT&T very good condition Bynamics PhonePad original everything! not working, in mint condition IT&T InfoStation very good condition Northern Telecom Alex good condition Northern Telecom Displayphone missing AC adapter very good condition Northern Telecom DV-1 mint condition SOFTWARE ------------------- Aldus PageMaker 1.2 for Mac complete and original good condition Ann Arbor Softworks Full Paint complete and original good condition Apple MacDraw complete and original good condition IBM DOS 2.00 w/diskettes good condition IBM DOS 3.00 w/diskettes good condition IBM DOS 3.10 & 3.30 no diskettes poor condition IBM DOS 4.00 w/diskettes unused very good condition IBM OS/2 Warp Version 3 w/diskettes and CD unused very good condition IBM PC Local Area Network 1.10 complete and original good condition IBM PC Network Program 1.00 still shrink wrapped very good condition IBM PC Network Hardware Maintenance and Service complete and original good condition IBM PC 3270 Emulation 3.00 complete and original good condition IBM PC 3270 Emulation 2.00 original missing shelve good condition IBM PC/Host File Transfter and Terminal Emulator 1.10 complete and original good condition IBM BASIC manuals shrink wrapped very good condition IBM Pascal compiler complete and original good condition IBM Guide to Operations 2.02 complete and original good condition IBM Technical Reference PC very good condition IBM Proprinter maintenance manuals very good condition idd MacDraft 1.2 complete and original good condition Symantec Grandview complete and original good condition Vestronix Pro C complete and original good condition Trilogy complete and original good condition Xerox Ventura Publisher 2.0 complete and original... all 19, 360K diskettes! very good condition Zenith Z-100 PC Service Guide complete and original good condition Zenith Z-100 Disk-Based Diagnostics complete and original good condition ----------------------------------------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf kstumpf(a)unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 (EST/EDT GMT-5)

28 years, 1 month

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Mayday! PDP-11/44 Power supply

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Hi, folks, My PDP-11/44 has a power supply problem. Symptom: A rapid flashing of the 'DC ON' light, indicating (according to the users' guide) that one or more DC voltages is not up to spec. The kicker is that I have nothing in the way of service manual or maintenance print set. I'm kind of puzzled about why the thing died. It's been functioning perfectly well at St. Martins College for years, 24/7, without so much as a burp. The only thing I can think of is that this continuous running had one or more components stretched to their limit, and when I powered it on after over a month of power off, it pushed it over the edge. Anyway... I have no way of knowing even where to probe to see which voltage died. Even if I did manage to find it, that fscking power supply's about as complex as the CPU! If anyone's got service docs for the '44, and can help me out with some copies, that would be just grand. I'd also be open to troubleshooting via phone or E-mail. If you've got spare parts, of course, that would be ideal. I could swap modules until the bad one's isolated. ;-) This is one I really want to get working. Please give me a hand if you can. Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 1 month

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OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 27, 16:50, Hotze wrote: > Most Windows CE devices are based on HP/NEC PA-RISC (IIRC) > processors, or SGI MIPS processors. Or Acorn/Digital StrongARM. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

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SE30s and IIX machines- Packet monitors and Home Automation

by thomas100＠home.com

I suppose SE30s and Mac IIs are 11 years old now! Yow. I still think of antique computers as 8-bit micros- that's just my own deluded sense of history. I bought an SE30 w/ Ethernet recently for $80 through the net. The owner showed up at my office one day recently and delivered it. The next week I also bought a Mac IIx w/ 8 megs of RAM for $25 at a Silicon Valley swap meet. A friend gave me a couple of Asante SCSI <-> Ethernet adapters which can normally be had for around $20 on eBay. I hadn't figured out much useful to do with these slower machines until... I found a very nice TCP/IP, etc packet monitor that runs on these machines. The "trial" version of this product (EtherPeek) is pretty hot in itself and is worth checking out. The full version is... unfortunately $700. I wish they'd sell the demo version with the 30-day time-bomb turned off for $100 as it's already more than what I need to monitor my cable-modem connection. Oddly... the Win32 version of EtherPeek is just so-so... I should add that in the case of SE30s, these things can sit on your desk, won't get knocked off like a laptop and are available for less than $100 with an ethernet card. This is an ideal niche machine for a packet monitor! http://www.aggroup.com - you have to download the app and then wait for the password to be e-mailed to you. ---- There was an article in the May issue of Popular Home Automation which piqued my interest in acquring these machines originally. It was entitled, "What I Did With The Mac in the Closet" and features a very vancy Macintosh/BSR controller system. This system can talk to wireless speakers in every room in the house. After taking the magazine home from the store where I found it, I realized this would be a social faux-pas in my house and decided to nix the idea. The software application that drives it is "XTension" by San Hill Engineering. It might still be fun to play with since the application is scriptable and can handle motion detectors and such. The application looks pretty nice. I wonder if the motion detectors would detect the squirrels I hear are supposed to gather from time to time in my detached garage. Hmm... The only other application I tho't of for the older Macs is as a dedicated Quick-cam machine. I must admit I use them for scanning in pictures occasionally - waiting for the images to be converted to JPEG is a hassle tho'. Thomas

28 years, 1 month

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Info wanted: Digital RZ23 SCSI Drive

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 27, 9:56, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I think some drives, includeing the RZ23 have a jumper setting to spin them > up, and some PC controllers might do this for you. Some of the RZ series do have a spin-up on power-up jumper, but the RZ23 isn't one of them :-( However, as someone else (Tim?) pointed out, most workstation controllers or OSs (as opposed to PC controllers/OSs) will take care of that. I have RZs on Acorn and SGI machines, but not, oddly, on any of my DEC ones. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

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Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>> Bob was just a dumb program. > >Bob was touted by Microsoft as the way user interfaces would work from >that point on. It was seen as a way to bring computers to mere consumers, >and launched at CES with great fanfare IIRC. What exactly is Bob? I've often see it mentioned, but never with any background to what it actually does. Thanks, Tom Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

28 years, 1 month

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OS's In ROMs

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 27, 14:41, Hotze wrote: > Would it be possible to have a control chip and a OS chip? You've got the > control chip, which contains address information on the OS chip, as well as > other EXTREMELY basic ssytem info. Then you've got the OS chip, which > contains the OS. Because of the control chip, it could be as large as you > wanted it. > I've also heard of a "Windows 98 on a chip" system, with 75MBPS through > put. Sounds like the first decent way to load Windows... Well, you typically need 4 chips, since most ROMs are 8-bit wide, and most current processors are 32-bit, but allowing a little poetic licence, Windows on a chip is possible (and Windows CE is just that). > PS-Did any computers have GUI's built in? I think that I recall that > a Tandy did, but nothing else... Amiga? Archimedes/RISC PC? Atari ST/MegaST? all those have the GUI in ROM. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

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Wang Thang

by blindpete＠stratos.net

On 1998-06-27 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said: cl{On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Don Maslin wrote: cl{> Cannot help on the pinouts, but I think their monitor connector cl{>was unique. You need to boot it with Wang disks. They are in PC cl{>format, but the DOS is different. I have a set that I can copy cl{>when you get video going. cl{Great! I'll get various Kaypro stuff from you at the same time. ;) cl{Do you know what the monitor connector looks like? The only cl{possibilities are the DIN plugs on the back of the IBM Emulator cl{card. Unless the monitor was some kind of terminal that attached cl{to the serial port. cl{The 8-pin DIN plug has a little symbol next to it which might cl{represent a CRT. (It looks kind of like a pie slice.) cl{> As I recall, the IBM Emulator board really hacks the WangDOS to cl{>be more like PCDOS and it will then run many - but not all - cl{PCDOS programs. cl{Pretty big hack. A whole PC could fit on a card half that size. :) cl{> Don't believe the D-subs on the back are for monitor and keyboard, cl{>but it may be a different board than I ever saw. cl{Well, I don't know where else to put a monitor. The Wang keyboard cl{plugs into the 4-pin DIN socket connected to the machine's cl{motherboard, I can only guess what the other things are for. I'm cl{just scratching my head trying to figure out how to get a picture cl{from the thing. cl{> > The sticker on the side (top) of the machine says it's a PC-002, cl{>but the > sticker on the back says it's a PC-P002. cl{> > cl{> > The keyboard has a lot of word processing functions on it. cl{> That is what Wang really got established in. cl{Too bad the keyboard doesn't have the greatest feel. And some of cl{the keys are in the wrong places, but that's a holy war I don't cl{want to get into. ;) cl{> > Anyway, I haven't opened it up yet, or done anything with it cl{>but look at > it. Disassembly looks like it might be difficult, cl{>because I have to slip > the innards through the full length cl{>metal sleeve. I won't be up to that > until my arms recover. cl{>I've even got bruises and some kind of blood > blisters or cl{something, from carrying that thing. :/ > cl{> Stand it up on its face and lift the cover off. Everything cl{>inside is in a heavy guage wire frame. cl{Yeah, it took me a few minutes to figure it out, but it opened up cl{easily once I decided to pull from the back instead of the front. :) cl{> - don cl{Doug Spence cl{ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca cl{http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ Hi I used to have an old wang whith a 8086 cpu in it, it had a monotor whith two cords coming out of it. one was power and the other one was for the data, they both pluged into the card whith two plugs on it. the one I had used the round ps2 stile plug maybe a little bigger, like a keyboard plug. Pete Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered

28 years, 1 month

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GOOD LORD! VARNISH?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

HOW DO YOU POUR *VARNISH* IN THE BACK OF A COMPUTER AND DON'T KNOW IT???? Just stuck my screwdriver in the back of that Mac 512, trying to open the lid and remove a sorely jammed floppy. (No, I've already tried the little button. It's jammed good.) Pull my screwdriver out - Minus the ending and COVERED IN WET VARNISH! It's all over the place! These morons DUMPED A CAN OF VARNISH in the computer, and didn't know about it! It does power on though... It comes up with the "insert a boot disk" icon. -------

28 years, 1 month

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Old computer books (was: Re[2]: Quarter classics (was: Big

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

> 'The DMA address extension register is a 4*4 register file >chip (74LS670) at location <U whatever>. It supplies the top 4 bits >of the system 20 bit address during DMA cycles. Unlike the >segmentation scheme used by the CPU, the extensions address is not a >16 bit segment address which is added to the address from the DMA >controller. Therefore, DMA operations cannot cross 64K boundaries', I can half-understand that, but if you read those urban legends about a guy calling tech support because the power went out in his block (I've had personal experience - my mom thinks there is a significant difference between a TV and monitor as far as cleaning solution is concerned), I sometimes wonder how these people learn to walk :) > >Now remember the PERQ again, and think back to the start of this (long) >thread. The PERQ happens to be the first commercial machine that would >now be classed as a workstation. For that reason alone it should not be >forgotten. But few people have ever heard of it (OK, not on this list >since I do go on about it :-)), or seen one. Which comes back to the >original point. Where should the average man in the street go to see the >machines that led up to the PC he's now using (I'll assume Windows, if >only because it's the most common OS). The average man in England might get your book, the average man in the US doesn't have time. Most people just _don't have time_ to learn about curiosities, especially when such complex, multidimensional concepts are involved. And so many people already have learned to use their computers mechanically (I just turned it on and it always loaded WordPerfect...) that such knowledge would have nowhere to go. I've seen some of my classmate have trouble understanding how muscles work, because they _just do_. Also, the economic forces that partly drove this stuff could never be understood by the naive American. To bring this long rambling to a close, I don't think many people would understand such a history, though that does not mean that we shouldn't try to make them ;) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Voice recognition?? This is still evolving and has just become viable i <the last year or so. It works in a more than limited fashion, and is onl Still evolving but usable systems are getting near 10 years old! I cite DRAGON Dictate. However user independent is far away. <many different fields. MSX was a standard that was around for a time in <Europe and Japan. Thankfully it didn't catch on in the U.S. or stick <around, but like CP/M it kinda faded. Home automation is an evolving ar MSX was replace like CPM with dos and winders. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Inventory Control (was Re:

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I'm just wondering - what DO you use these machines for? I guess you must have been doing it for a long time if you're using classics for it. Also, I think you should at least have an inventory of the manuals, and an inventory of each machine, ie Apple //c =1 computer =1 monitor //c =1 AC adapter =1 'getting started' guide etc, etc. That way, if you give the machine to someone, you won't leave anything out. >That could never work for me. I have a 'working' collection - machines >are often being used for real-world tasks (I don't really have a >non-classic computer), they're being investigated, hacked, tweaked, >repaired,etc. So machines rarely stay in the same place for very long. > >And while I have shelf after shelf of manuals, many of them are open on >my workbench, near this PC, etc. They're in _use_. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Old computer catalogs wanted

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Can anyone point this guy in the direction of heaps of old computer catalogs? Reply-to: Ferock(a)aol.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:18:00 EDT From: Ferock(a)aol.com To: vcf(a)siconic.com Subject: computer catalogs I enjoyed reading your web page. I'm also interested in old computers and old computer equipment. I collect old (1980-1990) computer catalogs. I'm especially interested in Black Box and Amp catalogs. If you know anyone who is interested in selling these items, I would greatly appreciate it if you send me an e-mail. Thanks in advance. Glenn

28 years, 1 month

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Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I guess I missed that one. Wasn't particularly useful, though versions were used as Packard Bell's "Navigator" and a popular game called "Myst" ;) >Bob was touted by Microsoft as the way user interfaces would work from >that point on. It was seen as a way to bring computers to mere consumers, >and launched at CES with great fanfare IIRC. > If you use a keyboard. Imagine a touch screen keyboard that reconfigured itself for your task, and had an enzyme coating that broke down your skin oils to prevent stains (you'd have to take breaks, of course, to prevent skin from drying out), like in Star Trek:The Next Generation. It's farfetched, but I doubt we'll use mechanical keyboard forever. >Touch screens make you take your hands off the keyboard and leave a greasy >mess on your screen while you try in vain to do high resolution tasks with >your low res finger. Can you type while you're buried inside a router closet trying to check network cables? I sure can't... >Even in humans, voice recognition isn't great. That's why there are so >many different words for "huh?". You'll always be able to communicate >with your computer faster and more accurately with a keyboard. Supercomputers are becoming less and less common because as things get cheaper, it's no longer 'super' but 'high-power', and in two years, 'entry-level'. AI works best in parallel, so do simulations like the ones India didn't want to stick to. >The supercomputer tar pits are littered with the remains of parallel >processing companies. They go fast only for a relatively small subset of >programs. > >-- Doug > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes...))

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I LOVE that idea. Now, it'd need to be EPROM, especially nowadays with bug fixes, a new version every other day of the week, etc. but still, it's a way cool concept. Which computers did this? Ciao, Tim -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, June 26, 1998 9:22 AM Subject: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes...) >>> The Mac Classic contains a complete System 6 installation in ROM that >>> you can boot from. Sorry but I don't have the docs handy, but I think >>> if you press Command-Option-Shift-X on startup, it'll boot from the >>> ROM. Another way that should work is Command-Option-Shift-Backspace -- >> >>Actually, the keys to press are: >> >> Cmd-Option-X-O >> >>That's the letter O, not the number zero. > >Wow, it has the complete OS in ROM? I didn't know any of the Mac's did >that. Are there any others or was this a one shot experiment that failed? >The OS in ROM is the main thing I like about the Atari ST's. > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

28 years, 1 month

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Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Most of what you list are excellent things that are not yet finished. They WILL catch on when they're done. Bob was just a dumb program. I find the touch screen comment unpleasant because I think touch screens are the key to an easy-to-use interface. Voice recognition and p.p. are in use and are gaining ground. What were bubbles, and why didn't they catch on? Ones you've missed? I think the Amiga caught on a lot less than it should have, same with the Macintosh. >BTW, I enjoy collecting over-hyped innovations that never quite >caught on in the way they were supposed to: Bubbles. Pen-based >computers. Touch screens. Wireless networks. Bob. MSX. Robots. >AI. Home automation. The Z8000. The iAPX432. Parallel processing. > Voice recognition. > >What did I miss? > >-- Doug > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Tektronix 4211???

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Anybody know what a Tektronix 4211 is? Its got an RS-232C port on the back, a DB-9 connector, two other db-25 ports, and some other connectors. Its in a desktop case and is greyish in colour. Saw it in a surplus shop so I don't have it in front of me to answer questions. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 06/11/98]

28 years, 1 month

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Old computer books (was: Re[2]: Quarter classics (was: Big

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>But seriously, while _I'd_ only want to write a book that's correct and >complete (and therefore does document every last gate in the device), I >guess few people would ever want to read it. You could release it in pdf format on the internet with a $5 shareware fee, or something. I'd certainly buy it, and I'm sure lots of other people (such as the ones who subscribe to this list) would as well. The information is invaluable. Tom Owad Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

28 years, 1 month

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Hang her on the wall.

by drfcline＠netw.com

A piece of computer memorabilia well worth mounting on the wall or giving as a gift is a stack memory card from the UNIVAC computer. It is the LAST time the home of a bit of information could actually be seen - a tiny doughnut on a grid of wires. See it at http://www.netw.com/~drfcline/univac.htm

28 years, 1 month

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Old computer books (was: Re[2]: Quarter classics (was: Big

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>Now remember the PERQ again, and think back to the start of this (long) >thread. The PERQ happens to be the first commercial machine that would >now be classed as a workstation. For that reason alone it should not be >forgotten. But few people have ever heard of it (OK, not on this list >since I do go on about it :-)), or seen one. Which comes back to the >original point. Where should the average man in the street go to see the >machines that led up to the PC he's now using (I'll assume Windows, if >only because it's the most common OS). There's been a lot of talk of talk recently about preserving ROM images and the like so that the machines will still be usable generations >from now. But isn't the history of these machines and of how they were designed just as important as the computer itself? Who cares how much enjoyable it is to read, just so long as the information exists. Tom Owad (whom luckily, isn't knowledgable enough to write a book about classic computers :-) Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

28 years, 1 month

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Old computer books (was: Re[2]: Quarter classics (was: Big

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

The problem being that we don't know most of that >But isn't the history of these machines and of how they were >designed just as important as the computer itself? > Who cares how much enjoyable it is to read, just so long as the >information exists. > >Tom Owad (whom luckily, isn't knowledgable enough to write a book about >classic computers :-) > >Sysop of Caesarville Online >Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/> > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Way to identify original IBM-PC?

by manney＠lrbcg.com

>Hi, > >I was wondering if there's a surefire way of telling if an IBM-PC has its >original motherboard, without opening the case. I saw one at the >Salvation Army today and was considering dragging it home (though I >decided to take another machine instead). > >The machine did have a cassette port in the back, with a femal DIN >connector. Is this attached to the motherboard? Yes, it is. > >The machine also had a full complement of cards in its slots, with lots of >ports coming out of it. And a 3.5" drive that was poorly fitted into the >case. The 3.5" drive requires a special controller card that I find rare. Snag it! > >I'm wondering if I should make a trip downtown sometime this weekend, with >the car. > > >Doug Spence >ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca >http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ > >

28 years, 1 month

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OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<competitor. Most Windows CE devices run off of UNIX-style processors, a What's a unix style processor? Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Way to identify original IBM-PC?

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Can't you also tell by the BIOS date?? I seem to remember that the original PC had one of three BIOS dates: 4/24/81, 10/19/81, and 10/27/82. This in combination with looking for a cassette port should be a good way to tell. ================================== Rich Cini/WUGNET - Charter ClubWin! Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of classic computers <<========== Reply Separator ==========>>

28 years, 1 month

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OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Yep. I knew most of those. And SPARCs, PPC's, and, if you really want to go on a limb, anything that runs Linux. I was talking about processors, generally associated with UNIX, that also run Windows CE devices. Ciao, Tim -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, June 27, 1998 5:38 PM Subject: Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes.. > ><A processor from a company who's highest-end products are UNIX based, and ><similiar version (IE in the same family, such as Pentium is in the x86 ><family). Most Windows CE devices are based on HP/NEC PA-RISC (IIRC) ><processors, or SGI MIPS processors. > >Then Alpha, ARM, PDP-11, VAX, 680xx and sundry others are also since they >all run unix. > >careful about retrorevisionist terminology... > >Allison >

28 years, 1 month

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Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Wasn't the i960 (the new Fast Ethernet chip) based on 432 archeticture? < Ciao, First of all the I960 is not a new eithernet chip it's off the high end single chip micro end where the 8096 and 80860 lived. 432 based... not even close. The 432 was a data object oriented system with a very unique bus. Aimed at ADA and Pascal type languages. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<A processor from a company who's highest-end products are UNIX based, and <similiar version (IE in the same family, such as Pentium is in the x86 <family). Most Windows CE devices are based on HP/NEC PA-RISC (IIRC) <processors, or SGI MIPS processors. Then Alpha, ARM, PDP-11, VAX, 680xx and sundry others are also since they all run unix. careful about retrorevisionist terminology... Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Wasn't the i960 (the new Fast Ethernet chip) based on 432 archeticture? Ciao, Tim -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, June 27, 1998 4:32 PM Subject: Re: Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes.. > ><I remember back in '98 when Doug Yowza wrote: ><> The Z8000. The iAPX432. Parallel processing. Voice recognition. >< ^^^^^^^ ><So you actually posess a 432 based machine? Impressive. I have only ><really heard about them in literature. Always sounded interesting. > >I have Intel docs for them. Old now, like early 80s. > >Allison >

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Info wanted: Digital RZ23 SCSI Drive

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi John, RZ23 = 104 MB RZ23L = 121 MB cheers, emanuel

28 years, 1 month

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OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

><competitor. Most Windows CE devices run off of UNIX-style processors, a > >What's a unix style processor? > > >Allison A processor from a company who's highest-end products are UNIX based, and a similiar version (IE in the same family, such as Pentium is in the x86 family). Most Windows CE devices are based on HP/NEC PA-RISC (IIRC) processors, or SGI MIPS processors. Ciao, Tim

28 years, 1 month

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Info wanted: Digital RZ23 SCSI Drive

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I've got two Digital RZ23 3.5" SCSI drives I'd like to find some more >info on. I basically need the specs (cylinder, head, size, etc.) and >jumper settings. Anyone got anything? If you go to Seagate's website (www.seagate.com) you can find pages for conner drives... it'll have graphics which show the positions of jumpers. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

28 years, 1 month

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Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I remember back in '98 when Doug Yowza wrote: <> The Z8000. The iAPX432. Parallel processing. Voice recognition. < ^^^^^^^ <So you actually posess a 432 based machine? Impressive. I have only <really heard about them in literature. Always sounded interesting. I have Intel docs for them. Old now, like early 80s. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Info wanted: Digital RZ23 SCSI Drive

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I've got two Digital RZ23 3.5" SCSI drives I'd like to find some more inf <on. I basically need the specs (cylinder, head, size, etc.) and jumper <settings. Anyone got anything? The RZ23 (there are two different ones) are either 105 or 120mb SCSI drives. The group of three(6pins, arranged 2x3) are the address. Check the various vax archives for more specs. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes...))

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Would it be possible to have a control chip and a OS chip? You've got th <control chip, which contains address information on the OS chip, as well <other EXTREMELY basic ssytem info. Then you've got the OS chip, which <contains the OS. Because of the control chip, it could be as large as yo <wanted it. Check out the IRMX-86 and the 8213x chips... beenthere done that about 12-14 years ago. However in real life OS is software and control is CPU so that logical partition is the norm for most CPUs. It's generally in RAM but as noted there are plenty with bom based kernals and OSs. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<u have a GRiD Compass with bubble memory, you get an OS <that acts like it's in ROM, but bubbles are writable. Lessee here. My supercrate s100 has CPM/BIOS/Monitor in rom. takes about 3sec to selfcheck and boot. I have an s100 crate with a 2mb write once romdisk of my design. I also have a z80 system with an two intel BPK72 bubble memories on. Each one give 128kb of space. All easily predate the GRID. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes...))

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Would it be possible to have a control chip and a OS chip? You've got the control chip, which contains address information on the OS chip, as well as other EXTREMELY basic ssytem info. Then you've got the OS chip, which contains the OS. Because of the control chip, it could be as large as you wanted it. I've also heard of a "Windows 98 on a chip" system, with 75MBPS through put. Sounds like the first decent way to load Windows... Ciao, Tim D. Hotze PS-Did any computers have GUI's built in? I think that I recall that a Tandy did, but nothing else... -----Original Message----- From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, June 27, 1998 2:09 PM Subject: Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes...)) >On Jun 26, 21:15, Hotze wrote: >> I LOVE that idea. Now, it'd need to be EPROM, especially nowadays with >bug >> fixes, a new version every other day of the week, etc. but still, it's a >way >> cool concept. Which computers did this? > >Acorn's RISC PC has the OS (RISC OS 3.7) in ROM, about 4MB IIRC. The >original Archimedes range (1987) had RISC OS 2.0 in ROM (512K, IIRC). > Usually they're mask ROMs or OTPROMs. The OS is structured as a series of >about 80 relocatable modules, so if an upgrade is required, you load the >relevant replacement module into RAM, and the kernel changes the links that >point to it. Of course, changing the kernel module itself is a little more >tricky, but it can be done -- the first RISC OS 2 upgrades had instructions >on how to boot the system from a disk to load a new "utility module". > >-- > >Pete Peter Turnbull > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York

28 years, 1 month

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Old computer books (was: Re[2]: Quarter classics (was: Big

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 26, 23:31, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > Yes, LaTeX. Since it can actually be translated to other forms. A .PDF > is more or less a bitmap picture of what used to be text and is usually > unreadable -- Hell, last week at work I got an email with a .PDF > attachment that included the icon where the document said "examine the > attached bitmap" left over from its Word origin, but for some reason > clicking on that icon in the .PDF doesn't bring up the full picture. No, PDF is more-or-less PostScript. However, *some* PDF documents actually include scanned images, which of course are usually bitmaps because the creator didn't OCR them. Both PostScript and PDF files can contain text, vector graphics, and bitmap graphics. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

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OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes...))

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 26, 21:15, Hotze wrote: > I LOVE that idea. Now, it'd need to be EPROM, especially nowadays with bug > fixes, a new version every other day of the week, etc. but still, it's a way > cool concept. Which computers did this? Acorn's RISC PC has the OS (RISC OS 3.7) in ROM, about 4MB IIRC. The original Archimedes range (1987) had RISC OS 2.0 in ROM (512K, IIRC). Usually they're mask ROMs or OTPROMs. The OS is structured as a series of about 80 relocatable modules, so if an upgrade is required, you load the relevant replacement module into RAM, and the kernel changes the links that point to it. Of course, changing the kernel module itself is a little more tricky, but it can be done -- the first RISC OS 2 upgrades had instructions on how to boot the system from a disk to load a new "utility module". -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

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Overhyped Innovations (was Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>I think cost had something to do with it, too. Cost shouldn't have anything to do with innovation. It's really a bummer. >BTW, I enjoy collecting over-hyped innovations that never quite caught on >in the way they were supposed to: Bubbles. Pen-based computers. Touch >screens. Wireless networks. Bob. MSX. Robots. AI. Home automation. >The Z8000. The iAPX432. Parallel processing. Voice recognition. Pen-based computers, although not a BOOMING success, have had a limited success. Their gaining momentum, too. Robots? Once again, go into a factory. You'll see them at work. BTW, how rare are Androbots? Wireless networks? I've seen a fwe. But I'd like more tech behind them. Bob? He was way cool. Then he died out. Too bad. AI is very much in a state of recession, as early depressions in the 80's took all the hype out of it. I say that we saw the last of current AI's with Deep Blue last year. They'll come back, but not until 64-bit is standard. Voice recognitions much the same as AI, but with a little more life, as it actually has some practical applications that are already partially-functional. >What did I miss? Bunches of processors, lots of RAM designs, some cool hard disk systems, and PC/TV integration. >-- Doug Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

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OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes..

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Come to think of it, ALL of the Windows CE devices have their OS in ROM. *My* opinion is that for UNIX hardware, it's going to be UNIX's biggest competitor. Most Windows CE devices run off of UNIX-style processors, as that's the only way that they can get any speed inexpensively and with a decent battery life. Ciao, Tim -----Original Message----- From: Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, June 27, 1998 9:14 AM Subject: Re: OS's In ROM's (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes.. >Doug Yowza wrote: >> >> On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Tom Owad wrote: >> >> > I belive Apple's Newtons have the OSes in ROM. They certainly do boot >> > quickly and a chip swap is need to upgrade the OS. >> >> Later Newts, including the eMate, are flash upgradable. A quick boot >> doesn't require a ROM OS, though. Windows is a slow booter even when >> ROM'd, but battery-backed RAM gives many portables an instant boot even >> with Windows. >> >> Of course, if you have a GRiD Compass with bubble memory, you get an OS >> that acts like it's in ROM, but bubbles are writable. > >Yes, and bubbles rival floppies for speed. There's a _reason_ why >that innovation didn't catch on. >-- >Ward Griffiths >They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. > Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_

28 years, 1 month

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Inventory Control (was Re: "No name" S-100 computer)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> wrote: > I'm pretty new to the collecting game, but I'm already having trouble > keeping machines, parts, software, manuals, and releated stuff tractable. > I've picked-up some barcode reading equipment with the idea that one day > I'll encode the contents of all of my boxes, and tie it to all together > with a database that include historical info, condition info, and other > notes. Doug, you live in a part of California that has a dry climate. How do you propose to affix barcodes to boxes? Are they sticky labels? Have you noticed that the sticky stuff turns brittle after a while (like, say, three years or so), and the labels become susceptible to falling off? Not that I want to discourage you, you understand. Besides, the inventory number is precious little of what I want to log, it just wouldn't save me that much typing. OK, that said, the schema of my database looks something like this at present: Number: an inventory item number. Type: a one-word description of just what sort of object is described by this record; types thus far are: Ad (advertisement or marketing materials) Article (magazine article or photocopy thereof) Book (includes manuals) HW (hardware) LST (listing) Papers Part Periodical (really should be "serial") Pkg (package - generally packaging material or a complete boxed package) Refcard Supplies SW (software) Title: title or brief description of object Author: the author Manufacturer: the manufacturer or publisher of the object. Manufacture Date: manufacture or publishing date ISBN: ISBN number LCCN: Library of Congress Catalog Number Model: model name/number Part Number: manufacturer's part number Version: version Volume#Number: Volume#number for serials Serial: manufacturer's serial number Acquisition Date: date when I got it Source: where I got it from Location: where it is now (box ID or shelf location) Home Location: where it normally lives ToDo: flag: does this need work? (see notes) Notes: free-form text notes, containing additional description, relationship to other items, work that needs to be done Dates are actually text fields, because most database software has really Procrustean date handling that wants to make everything fit its idea of a datestamp. The syntax I use goes like this: yyyy[/mm[/dd]][~] where [] surrounds optional text, yyyy is year, mm is month, dd is day-of-month, and ~ means "approximate". People's names are always in "Last, First" format. ... I say the schema is "something like this" because it is changing, again. I'm fooling around with New Software, actually several New Softwares that are all several-years-old dBase-alikes that run on my HP200LX palmtop. Prior to that it's been through several iterations, most of which are still there because I haven't re-inventoried stuff, done with Lotus 1-2-3 (one row per item) and the HP 100/200LX ROM'd database software (which has a limit of 5000 records per database that is past being a looming problem, hence me looking for new software). And yes, some of the ways I do things (like having only one note field) is due to architectural limitations of the previous software. ... Oh yeah, and how do I label boxes? Well, I use those hinged-lid plastic containers that you can get at Costco. They're sort of transparent, so I just write the box numbers on 5x8" index cards with a broad felt-tip marker and drop them in so I can see them through the sides. No worries about labels falling off. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

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720K drives on an original PC was Re: Way to identify original IBM-PC?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-06-26 21:30:20 EDT, you write: << 720K drives will work fine on the original drive controller AFTER you load the driver file. I've done it dozens of times to connect my NEC Multi-Speed drives to the PC. The only problem is that you can't boot from them since the driver has to be loaded for them to work. I don't *think* the 1.44 Mb drives will work on the controller though. Joe >> i've never needed a driver file in my case. for example, i have a few xt models around here and when i need to install dos or copy files over from a later computer with only a 3.5 drive, i just plug a 720k floppy into the drive controller cable in place of the 360k drive and i'm off and running. i think i could boot off the 720 drive also. you are correct in that 1.44 drives are not supported, although i do have an adaptor card that will let hi density drives work in an xt. david

28 years, 1 month

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Aim65 computers F/S

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: I got a line on about 9 AIM65-based computer systems. These systems not only include the AIM, but also a custom-made case, power supply, keyboard, and miscellaneous related stuff. These would go for about $100 each + S/H. These units are supposed to be new, being built for a specific project which never got off the ground. Those interested, e-mail me separately. Thanks! ================================== Rich Cini/WUGNET - Charter ClubWin! Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of classic computers <<========== Reply Separator ==========>>

28 years, 1 month

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OS's In ROMs (was: Re: Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes...))

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<operating systems in rom? that seems fairly popular. my atari portfolio h <dos in rom as well as my tandy 100 has apps in rom. even the original 201 <PS1 had dos in rom. Not to mention Epson PX-8 (and a few others) when CP/M OS in rom and applications in roms (cartridges) as well. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Mac Classic prob (was Macintoshes...)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I like system 6 much more than the later ones because I think it holds truer to the theory of simplicity and ease-of-use. Try sticking a MacOS 8 system folder on a RAMdisk and boot off that! Will never work. System 6 you could do that on, I've tried. Another feature of System 6 was a macro recorder which has been replaced by the more difficult Applescript. >I don't know of any other Macs with that feature either, and I'll bet that >there were none. It was a somewhat Spartan version (not as unpleasant as >a boot floppy, much less pleasant than a fancy hard-drive installation). >Now that Systems 7 and 8 have taken over, it probably would seem pretty >barren. It sure is fast though! But none of your Finder preferences get >saved. (Where would they go?) They could go to PRAM, but I guess they didn't. What's the tag? >BTW, if you "Get Info" on the virtual hard drive, you'll see an amusing >tag in the "Location" field. > >-- Derek > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Heads-up: Cleveland OH, mini's etc

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Nasa Lewis has some old computer stuff up for bid, including a couple PDP-11's and an IBM 7015 (whatever that is!). Here are some URLs: http://ltwebp.lerc.nasa.gov/980010detail.htm http://ltwebp.lerc.nasa.gov/sales.htm A partial list follows. Note that there were several of some of these items, and some of them had different notes attached. Inspection day is Thursday, July 9th from 7:30 am to 3:00. Bids will be opened Wednesday, July 15th at 1:00 pm. I don't know if there is an earlier deadline for getting bids in. There are other rules too (of course). See those web pages for more info. PROCESSOR, DIGITAL DATA CONCURRENT COMPUTER 3250XP 600 # 30" X 45" X 50" COMPUTER, MINI IBM 7015 3'X2'X6' 300# CONTROL, COMPUTER STORAGE TECHNOLOGY CORP 4670 30"X24"X52" 400# TAPE DRIVE UNIT STORAGE TECHNOLOGY CORP 4674 30"X31"X52" 450# DISK DRIVE UNIT SEAGATE 47177701 COMPUTER, MINI SOLBOURNE COMPUTER 5E900 4'X4'X6', 500 LBS. TAPE DRIVE UNIT TRIMM IND DA20V1R PART OF T/N 1109700 COMPUTER, MICRO CONCURRENT COMPUTER 6605 80 # 32 CHANNEL PROCESSOR, DIGITAL DATA DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORP MNC11DA IN A RACK (30"X21"X42") 350# INPUT MODULE DIGITAL MNCDI IN A RACK (30"X21"X42") 350# OUTPUT MODULE DIGITAL MNCDO IN A RACK (30"X21"X42") 350# CHASSIS, EXPANSION CONCURRENT COMPUTER 20 # 16 CHANNELS DISK DRIVE UNIT DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORP RL01A IN A RACK (30"X21"X42") 350# DISK DRIVE UNIT DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORP RL02 IN A RACK (30"X21"X42") 350# COMPUTER, MINI DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORP 11-24XX DISK DRIVE UNIT DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORP 70-12130 COMPUTER, MINI DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORP PDP11/24 DISK DRIVE UNIT DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORP RL02 27"X19"X11",60#, WON'T POWER UP DISK DRIVE UNIT IBM 3380 44"X32"X70" 325# If only I had a basement, a truck, and a couple days of spare time... Have fun! Bill.

28 years, 1 month

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Old computer books (was: Re[2]: Quarter classics (was: Big

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Sure, we'd all buy, at least in the interest of solidarity, but I'm not sure how many others would. Either way, I don't know how many people are alive now and able to access the 'net that have ever touched a PERQ >You could release it in pdf format on the internet with a $5 shareware >fee, or something. I'd certainly buy it, and I'm sure lots of other >people (such as the ones who subscribe to this list) would as well. The >information is invaluable. > >Tom Owad > >Sysop of Caesarville Online >Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/> > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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