> TRS80 model II with 3 physically huge 8 meg HDDs
8 meg ? not five ? Whats the type and manufacturer ?
Do you have an online picture ?
> Phillips Micom 2000 dedicated WP with an 8" Shugart
> and a Qume daisy wheel printer that has a power supply big enough
> to power a small villiage.
Same here: Any picture for the Micom 2000 available ?
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
> Kai Kaltenbach wrote:
>>[...]
> Is this the same Kai that the "power goo" software was/is created by? Haven't
> seen the name in here before and guessing he's a recent signon? (I may just be
> on a drug flashback and imagining all of this)
I think you are talking about Kai Krause - he is already
living somehere in California :)
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
> Anyway, this plus a message from one of our own, results in an
> interesting question. How, in 1982 (or in 1980-81, when Project Acorn was in
> beta), would Microsoft have written and compiled DOS 1?
86-DOS (the base of MS-DOS 1.0) at least was developed on
a DEC 2020 station and transfered via serial line to an
INTEL ISIS system for writing Disks, or to the SCP 8086
S100 system for runntime tests.
Gruss
h.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
One of my recent time sink-hole projects is de-compiling DOS 1.1. I
figure that I needed a computing challenge :)
Anyway, this plus a message from one of our own, results in an
interesting question. How, in 1982 (or in 1980-81, when Project Acorn was in
beta), would Microsoft have written and compiled DOS 1?
I know that DOS as we know it was purchased from Tim Patterson of
Seattle Computing Products (Is this the right name? I don't have a copy of
one of my many Gates books handy.), so the source code in printed, magnetic,
or paper tape form would have existed. Would they have used a PC simulator
running on another computer (the same way they wrote BASIC for the Altair)?
Would they have waited to receive a beta unit to test/develop it live after
months of writing blind code based on IBM's specifications documents?
Anyway, I digress. I've pretty much finished the boot sector code, and
IBMBIO is done. So, now I'm working on IBMDOS. Does anyone know anything
about how early DOS versions loaded? Looking at the DOS1 code and comparing
it to DOS6 code, it seems like the DOS1 boot sector loads both BIO and DOS
back-to-back in memory (producing a single image, if you will), and then
jumps to BIO. DOS6, in comparison, the boot sector loads IO, which then
loads DOS.
Any thoughts? I felt this qualifies as "classic" since the file dates
are May 7, 1982 <g>
Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com>
- ClubWin! Charter Member
- MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
- Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>
At this point in CP/M and DOS development, it was common to use
an automated translation tool to convert 8080 and Z-80 assembler
to 8088 code. I believe this was used on early DOS, too. I remember
seeing the "signature" of this in disassemblies by the way something
was done less than efficiently.
- John
< Ok, so given that there are people out there who know about phone
< systems, how would I build a device that sat on the phone line and could
< detect whether the line was in use or not - it's extremely annoying when
< you have a modem and voice phone on the same line and your voice call
< gets interrupted by a burst of modem noise! :)
for this the US and euro systems are sufficiently the same.
<
< btw, this is for a UK system - I've seen curcuits to do exactly this
< job, but they never say whose phone systems their designed for, and I'd
< imagine that US and UK systems work with different setups....
the only thing you need to do is detect if the line voltage is above or
below some level. that point is best set mid way between battery off hook
and battery on hook (easily measured). The only other need is to do it such
that you do not load the line(or you look like your off hook) and can
withstand the ring without failing the circuit. Likely the circuits you've
sen will do that.
Allison
< I would _guess_ that MS-DOS was written and assembled on a CP/M system of
< some sort, until it was self-hosting. Although, it's also quite possible
< that MS-DOS was assembled on a QDOS system, since that's basically what
< it was :)
it could have been done under intel ISIS using the MDS-311 package or
IRMX-80 or IRMX-86 along with ICE pods. the 8088/86 was a already a
mature product by time IBM started the PC and there wre at least three
second sources. Also 8086 development tools from Intel, AMD and HP to
name a few were available. So developing 808x code was not a problem.
I know that as we built a system using 8088 at 8mhz to play with the
7220 GDC which was the hottest thing for graphics on one chip for before
the PC would escape into the world.
Allison
CL>> -tony
CL>>
CL> Well, it looks like I'm going to have to read up on terminals. I really kno
CL>little about them. It has baud rate settings on the back 300 - 19.2 . I'm
CL>surprised at the speed. I would have thought 2400 or at most 9600.
CL> Thanks for the help.
CL>ciao larry
CL>lwalker(a)interlog.com
The baud speed really isn't that surprising since 19.2 is the speed of
the Atari SIO.
> The voltages must remain the same in order to be compatible with old
> equipment per government regulations. Believe it or not there are still
> many people out there with old (ancient) rotary dial telephones.
a) Don't forget about these pseudo modern phones - keys, but
still emiting pulse scemes.
b) I had, until I switched to ISDN, still a 1927 Telephone
in every day use. Worked fine, even with the latest (analogue)
exchange :) - Noy I connect it via an a/b adaptor.
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
At 09:40 PM 7/16/98 +0100, Tony wrote:
>> Has anyone built any of David Heiserman's robots? He's written several robot
>> construction books. Some with hardwired logic, some with microcomputers.
>
>I don't think I've come across these - can you provided titles, etc, please
>
He wrote many, I think about all for TAB books, now part of McGraw Hill.
'Build your own working Robot', 1976. TTL, sorry my copy has been borrowed
and lost. Must still be much easier to find, at least in the U.S. than
"We Built our own Computers"
'How to build your own self-programming Robot', 1979. Used a 8085. Has a
convoluted final algorithm (to me) to determine responses.
'How to build your own working Robot, the second Generation', 1987. Still
TTL, about 30 ic's, 4 bits input (bumpers), 4 bits output (2 drive motors).
Other's I haven't seen are '101 Programming Surprises and Tricks for the IBM
PC'.
Of course today there are all sorts of robots with PIC microcontrollers, etc.
-Dave
< running on another computer (the same way they wrote BASIC for the Altair)
< Would they have waited to receive a beta unit to test/develop it live afte
< months of writing blind code based on IBM's specifications documents?
Likely they used a intel MDS800 running asm86 or PLM86. They could run
on intel ISB86 systems (multibus 8086 based). the 8086 was introdued in
'78 and available in '79 so hardware was not a problem. Heck they could
ahve used a Seattle Computers S100 8086 crate.
< it to DOS6 code, it seems like the DOS1 boot sector loads both BIO and DO
< back-to-back in memory (producing a single image, if you will), and then
< jumps to BIO. DOS6, in comparison, the boot sector loads IO, which then
< loads DOS.
<
< Any thoughts? I felt this qualifies as "classic" since the file dates
< are May 7, 1982 <g>
The monolithic load is an artifact of the CP/m heritage in general and
specifically CP/M1.4. It's effect was to make loading drivers difficult.
That resulted in later version loading the IO which is more extensable and
then using the io to load the DOS. I may add that CP/M2.x put more of the
burden in the bios and also seperated the load preocess more. Parallel
development.
Allison
Well, then why don't the other phones sound out the data string with the
ringers?
>Wrong.
>
>Caller id senses the ring and does not go off hook as that would
disturb
>the CO and it is uneeded. Instead the ring is an alert to the caller
ID
>that data will follow and it's already camped on the line using a
non-DC
>(capacitor coupled) connection to avoid loading the line. this allows
>it to hear the ring and the data.
>
>Allison
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Hi all,
At 11:09 PM 7/16/98 +1000, Phil wrote:
>-----Original Message-----
>From: dave dameron <ddameron(a)earthlink.net>
>>Speaking of books,
>>has anyone seen the book "We Built our own Computers" by A.B. Bolt,
>>Cambridge Univ. Press, published about 1966. ^^
>
>Yes, I've got it here (bought as part of a $3 per bag haul from a charity
>book sale a month ago).
...
>I see a few other replies, so that it is not all that rare :(
>- but what exactly did you want to know for?
>
OK, Thanks,
One of my collection interests is for computer construction books and
articles. This book was mentioned in another article without any details.
If copies are floating around, I might find one yet.
-Dave
Has anyone built any of these? Does anyone have any extra copies?
>Indeed it is. 1966 IIRC
Are any still in publication or recently gone out of?
>I don't think I've come across these - can you provided titles, etc,
please
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Hello, all:
I thought that I'd share with you that I'm beginning my own classic
computing web site. I was fortunate enough to find a gentleman in Vancouver
who will sponsoring this effort. His particular interest is in PDP
equipment. Right now, he hosts a PDP8 document archive.
The first thing to be posted will be scans of the printsets that I
recently got. I'd also like to reproduce the hardware user manuals that I
own (which are on the order of 2 or 3 copy paper boxes worth).
I also intend to post the Altair scans that I've been holding, server
space allowing, of course.
I'll take some time, but when it's up, I'll solicit document donations.
More to come...
Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com>
- ClubWin! Charter Member
- MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
- Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>
> When a phone is on-hook (hung-up) there is a 48V potential on the line.
> When the phone is ringing, there is 90v (nominal) AC on the line during
> the ring cycle to activate the ringer. When a phone is off-hook (you're
> talking) there is 12v on the line.
I think the 48V on hook and 12V off hook is historical - in the days of
long copper wires back to the exchange, it was all done from the 48V
battery - 12V was all that was left after voltage drop when the 30mA or
so (apparently the carbon microphone needs at least 23mA to work well)
had to go the several miles to your house and back. May still be like
that, come to think of it.
Those on shorter lines had higher resistance phones to compensate. In
the 1960s (? What date is the 706 anyway ?), many UK phones had the
"line drop compensator" on a plug-in module, presumably so you could
swap it for one with different resistors...
Philip.
< > When a phone is on-hook (hung-up) there is a 48V potential on the line.
< > When the phone is ringing, there is 90v (nominal) AC on the line during
< > the ring cycle to activate the ringer. When a phone is off-hook (you're
< > talking) there is 12v on the line.
the voltages are wildly approximate. It's current that does the work!
On hook is sensed by some current flowing and the threshhold is about
5-10ma may be more. Ring is ac coupled but the voltage is set so the
energy level of the ringer is met despite the loop (line) resistance.
the only one that was nominal was onhook of ~48v.
Allison
In Denver try Fistell's Electronics and Crump Electronics and in Boulder try
J.B. Saunders.
- Doug
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Uncle Roger [mailto:sinasohn@ricochet.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 7:53 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Denver sources?
>
>
> My girlfriend and I are hoping to go on holiday at the
> beginning of August,
> and right now, it looks like Denver/Boulder will be our
> destination. So,
> does anyone know of any good thrift shops/swapmeets/etc. in the area?
> (And, off-topically, antique or teacher stores? Gotta keep
> the gf happy
> too! 8^) Thanks!
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ------- O-
>
> Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
> roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but
> madmen know."
> Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
> San Francisco, California
http://www.sinasohn.com/
Hi Tony and all,
At 09:28 PM 7/15/98 +0100, you wrote:
>>
>> [We built out own...]
>>
>> Oooh! Scan! Scan!
>
>Well, it's all relay logic, and switches, but it's still fun.
>
>May I also recomend 'Practical Robot Circuits' from the Philips Technical
>Library series. It describes a robot dog built from DF92 etc valves, and
>includes schematics. The radio control book in the same series is
>interesting as well.
>
This must be 30 or so years old.
Can one still get these from Philips? I didn't find anything on Philip's site.
Has anyone built any of David Heiserman's robots? He's written several robot
construction books. Some with hardwired logic, some with microcomputers.
-Dave
Yesterday I acquired two boxes, each about the size of a UK telephone
directory, that were described as "AppleTalk to serial convertors".
Opening them up reveals a Mac 512 motherboard, a nice Farnell psu,
and a homebrew card in place of Apple's analog board. There are a
couple of other mods such as the programmer and reset
switches mounted on the front panel, small speaker mounted inside the
case, no internal floppy, keyboard extender.
The Mac board in box #1 appears to be completely standard. The
homebrew board contains 2 * SN74LS221N and 1 * 74LS256N with a lead
joining it to a composite connector. Does anybody have any idea what
the video output might be for? I understand that there were a number
of homebrew video mods of this type published in Mac magazines in the
mid 80's.
The Mac board in box #2 appears to be slightly non standard. At the
location F3 the original SN74F253N has been piggy backed with a
7F153PC (I think). There are also a few connections to the chip at
location F2 and to a factory solder pad on the motherboard. The
homebrew board looks similar to that in box #1 but is better made and
clearly hand labelled "composite video".
Which size floppy drive should these boards support? The ROM HI is
Apple # 342-022 and ROM LO is # 342-0221.
Any thoughts,
Phil
**************************************************************
Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport
University of Leicester
Tel (0)116 252-2231
E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk
Spotted this in the DEC newsgroup. For our euro friends.
DO NOT REPLY TO ME - REPLY TO ORIGINAL POSTER
From: Peter Mueri <MPe(a)pop.agri.ch>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro
Subject: FS DEC material
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 20:14:18 +0000
Organization: 64 Bit Linux/AXP forever!
For Sale
1 Vaxmate Computer with HD Box sFr. 100
1 DEC uVAX 2000 sFr. 200
1 DEC uVAX 2000 4MB Memory Board sFr. 20
1 DEC VaxStation2000 RD54 RGB-19" sFr. 400
1 DEC Monitor 19" B/W VR100 55kHz sFr. 30
1 PDP-11/70 Plessey Core Memory sFr. 10
1 Rainbow Computer with DOS and CP/M and table sFr. 100
1 DEC VT100 sFr. 20
1 DEC VT240 Console sFr. 20
various DEC MFM HDs
Prices are pick/up prices in Switzerland.
Willing to trade-in McIntosh CPUs.
Peter
lwalker(a)interlog.com
< OK, easy on that anti-MS stuff. Kai might be reading :) Anyway, Scandisk
< is useful for erasing lost files which is all I use it for. Does anyone
First of all MS didn't write scandisk... anyone that uses norton tools
should recognize it. it a stripped vendor version the norton tool.
I have had excellent success with norton tools and still used copies
I've had for over 8years.
Allison
> In a message dated 98-07-15 10:58:12 EDT, you write:
>
> << I just acquired an IBM 3380 HDA which weighs 70 lbs, and is in a clear
> plastic case. Does anybody know the lineage of this? The HDA has IBM
> 390X-001 as well as 13-E8719-CJ printed on a label.
> >>
>
> hmmm, i remember seeing 3380/3880 dasd units back in 1992 when i was a
> computer operator running an IBM 4381 and later an ES9000. kinda useless for a
> pc although fascinating to look at. belt drive and everything!
3380s and 3880s were certainly around when I was at IBM in 1985-86,
mostly on 308X mainframes. I'll have a look-see if I have any info
(probably just marketing bumf as usual).
It is the clear plastic case that intrigues me. Do you mean you can see
the platters and heads and things? I have a vague memory of the HDs in
our system/34 being like that. Nice.
I also once saw a later disk model (9330 or something like that?), demo
version, which not only had a clear plastic case, but had the platters
replaced by discs of clear plastic, too. It didn't power up or anything
- strictly for showing tourists when on the factory tour...
Philip.
Nope, I'm not that Kai, and I'm far from a recent addition to the group,
either :)
Kai
-----Original Message-----
From: Russ Blakeman [mailto:rhblake@bbtel.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 1998 5:39 AM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: Places to visit in Silicon Valley?
Kai Kaltenbach wrote:
> I'm going to be visiting the silicon valley area and I'd appreciate any
tips
> on where to look for interesting old computer gear.
>
> This is a one-time visit so if you're afraid of spreading the word around
on
> your favorite spots, send me email instead of posting to the list, I won't
> tell anyone your secrets, I swear!
Is this the same Kai that the "power goo" software was/is created by?
Haven't
seen the name in here before and guessing he's a recent signon? (I may just
be
on a drug flashback and imagining all of this)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ UIN #1714857
AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN"
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
On Jul 16, 1:50, Tony Duell wrote:
> Subject: Re: How many computers?
> > >That sounds like a Torch Graduate machine. An MS-DOS copro for the
BBC=20
> > >micro. I have one, but alas I'm missing the host ROM and systems disk
=
> > for=20
> > >it :-(.
> > I dont thing it needs a rom in the BBC , I have the system disks If
>
> I am suprised. I guess it works with the standard Tube host routines.
> Odd, as it doesn't (IIRC) contain a Tube ULA. Or does it use the same
> host ROM as the Z80 copro (those I have).
>
> Does anyone know for certain? I'd not want to waste your time if there
> are other bits I need.
I'm sure it doesn't use the standard Tube routines; in face most Torch
devices play merry hell with Acorn's Tube code, which tends to see that
something is there but can't deal with it.
I suspect it used the same ROM as the Z80. A colleague used to have a
Graduate, so I'll ask him today.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
Hey! A great way to bring this thread back on topic! How do those
electronic switches work, and what is the approximate network topology
of the system? Is there a reference guide to it somewhere? I'd love to
take a look.
>>From about the 1970s and on (somewhere around there...about the time
the
>first electronic switching systems start appearing)
***snip***
As far as I know, a telephone rings because when it's on hook, any
current on the phone line is connected to the ringer. When someone is
trying to connect, the company sends a periodic AC signal to the phone.
If the caller ID data signal was sent first, it would cause jittering in
mechanical ringers, and a maddening noise in electronic ones. When the
ring is detected, the caller ID can 'pick up' the phone line briefly to
check the data signal, which should be extremely brief. The station
knows to keep ringing the phone if the user has caller ID. This is my
theory.
>I don't know the specific reasons that are behind sending the data
burst
>after the first ring. It may have a lot to do with the caller ID boxes
>needing some sort of indicator to let them know a call was coming and
they
>should start monitoring for the carrier. I think the caller ID boxes
>could have easily been designed to continually monitor the line for a
>carrier and then capture the data that came before the first ring.
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
> September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
> [Last web page update: 07/05/98]
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Hi Chuck:
> My question is how can I figure out if the 8/M chassis has the
> requisite 8v lamp supply so that if I found an 8/e front panel I
> could plug it in? Alternatively, if I pulled the 8/e panel I have
> off, and plugged it into the other one to see if it would work,
> would this damage it? (the FAQ says that you can run the LED
> panel on an E but the going the other way is ambiguous.)
You can run a LED front panel in an 8/E, Tim Shoppa and I tried this
about January. There are two connector lugs on the left hand side of both
types of front panels. The 8/e uses both lugs, an 8/f or other LED-style
panel only the blue. The blue lead is -15V, the yellow is 8V. The lugs on
the front panel are labelled "YELLOW" and "BLUE", just connect the proper
wires. Leave the yellow wire unconnected to use the LED front panel in
your 8/e. This works, we tried it.
To find out if your supply has an 8V output, best dig out the voltmeter
and check the leads coming from it!
> I need an omnibus extender card, did such a thing
> exist?
I'm sure that they did, but I've never seen one. I'm currently waiting on
connectors so that I can make one. Heck, I could make two if you need one.
If anyone wants to make their own, the connectors are hard to find. Here's
a suitable part number:
Manufacturer: EDAC, they're at 416-754-3322
Part #s: 346-036-540-201
346-036-541-201
346-036-540-202
346-036-541-202
346-036-540-802
346-036-541-802
Any of these connectors will work, they are 0.125" spacing 36 contact edge
connectors, 18 per side. You'll need 4 for an omnibus extender.
The first two types are best, as they don't have mounting ears. The last 4
parts have mounting ears that can easily be cut or ground off to allow the
connectors to be properly spaced.
Hope this helps,
Kevin
--
Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD
mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca
Phil Beesley wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dave dameron <ddameron(a)earthlink.net>
>> >Speaking of books,
>> >has anyone seen the book "We Built our own Computers" by A.B. Holt,
>> >Cambridge Univ. Press, published about 1966.
>
> If anybody in the UK is interested in getting this book, I saw a copy
> of this recently (two or three pounds) and I'm happy to go back for
> it.
Yes please. I'll try and pop into Leic. again soon and pick it up (I
live at Coalville). If I thought I'd get to Leic. this weekend I'd say,
tell me where and I'll buy it myself. But I am fully booked for the
next three weekends, I think :-(
Philip.
PS Don't forget to read it before you give it to me!
< > < Will an RL01 pack be readable in an RL02 drive?
< >
< > Yes.
<
< I think you have to rejumper the RL02 to RL01 for it to work.
Bill, you just got the good memory award. ;)
Allison
<If the caller ID data signal was sent first, it would cause jittering in
< mechanical ringers, and a maddening noise in electronic ones. When the
< ring is detected, the caller ID can 'pick up' the phone line briefly to
< check the data signal, which should be extremely brief. The station
< knows to keep ringing the phone if the user has caller ID. This is my
Wrong.
Caller id senses the ring and does not go off hook as that would disturb
the CO and it is uneeded. Instead the ring is an alert to the caller ID
that data will follow and it's already camped on the line using a non-DC
(capacitor coupled) connection to avoid loading the line. this allows
it to hear the ring and the data.
Allison
< Well, then why don't the other phones sound out the data string with the
< ringers?
The amplitude is low compared to the ring signal and it's very short blip
of data. Ring is 90-120v, voice and id are in the under two volts region.
Max, please edit the copy string! bandwidth is limited and I can remember
what I wrote even at my advenced age.
Allison
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dave dameron <ddameron(a)earthlink.net>
> >Speaking of books,
> >has anyone seen the book "We Built our own Computers" by A.B. Holt,
> >Cambridge Univ. Press, published about 1966.
If anybody in the UK is interested in getting this book, I saw a copy
of this recently (two or three pounds) and I'm happy to go back for
it.
Phil
**************************************************************
Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport
University of Leicester
Tel (0)116 252-2231
E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk
I'm going to be visiting the silicon valley area and I'd appreciate any tips
on where to look for interesting old computer gear.
This is a one-time visit so if you're afraid of spreading the word around on
your favorite spots, send me email instead of posting to the list, I won't
tell anyone your secrets, I swear!
thanks,
Kai
Allison (>>) and Tony (>) wrote:
>> media you may pit it some or at least remagnetize a small area, disaster
>> for servo tracks.
>>
>> FYI/note: Why do ALL drives spin up then load the heads? It's to allow
>
> A lot of winchesters land the heads on the platter - and not always in a
> special 'landing zone'. This implies the heads start flying as the disk
> gets up to speed.
>
> It also implies that the heads can land on the platter without damage. On
> the other hand, there's a difference between the landing when the drive
> spins down, and crashing due to hitting a dust particle.
>
>> the airflow from the spinning media to establish the clean airflow inside
>> the drive. Also any dust on the active portion of the media spins off the
>> media and is then captured in a filter.
>
> Agreed...
A lot has been said about dust in hard drives, most of it assuming that
the dust is dry. But only one person (sorry, can't remember who) has
talked about other things.
Remember, not all pollutants are dry. Some (water, spittle) are wet,
and some are quite sticky (ever parked your car under lime trees?).
These will mess a hard drive up something cruel!
Yes, if you take reasonable precautions, you may well be OK. But one
day, if you haven't got a clean room, you will come to grief...
BTW, I have two questions. What does HEPA stand for? And (Christian
will parobably be able to answer this) how do you grade clean rooms? I
take it it has something to do with the size of the largest particles
you'll find in the air and/or how many of them you have...
Oh yes. I take it "Tobacco for chewing only" goes without saying ;-)
Philip.
THe site is www.pandaproject.com. The reason why your suggestion won't
work is that the drives are right in one of the corners.
>Hmmm... Seems to me that two PC's stacked on top of each other is just
>about a cube. So, why not a case that has two motherboards, with an
>integral Monitor/kb/mouse switch...
>
>
> _______________
> ||--- ||
> ||--- ||
> ||--- ||
> || [ ] ---||
> || [ ] ---||
> || [ ] ---||
> ---------------
> ^ ^ ^
> | | \
> | \ ---- Mobo 2 with Exp Cards
> \ ---- Drives (Shared Floppy?)
> ---- Mobo 1, with Exp Cards
>
>
>Okay, so maybe there isn't any point or anything, but I still think
it's a
>cool idea... Hmmm... Mac on one side, PC on the other?
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
O-
>
>Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
>roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen
know."
>Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
>San Francisco, California
http://www.sinasohn.com/
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
The 4066/XE's belong to the US Government. From what I understand,
when an agency excesses a machine it is up for grabs by any other
federal agency, then state agency, local government, schools etc.
until it is sold at GSA auction which is where you should look.
Marty
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed
Author: Russ Blakeman <rhblake(a)bbtel.com> at internet
Date: 7/16/98 9:19 AM
Marty wrote:
> Not that I'm aware of. We are supporting a couple hundred Dell 4066/XE
> Interactive Unix servers which are at the end of their life cycle and
> being replaced by Compaq Proliant 2500 and 5000 servers. We have one
> in-house 4066/XE for building root drives for field servers. All other
> times the 4066/XE sleeps.
What (tell me please) are you/they doing with the XE's as they are replaced? I
would love to get sme parts such as a Pentium upgrade board to make it a
45xx/XE
as well as drive rails, hard drives, hard drive mounts, etc and I wouldn't
even
mind considering some for purchase if reasonable enough. Sure they are heavy
but
in the process of messing with this one I thought what agreat machine for a
local church group that runs 15-20 machines and has limited funds, to be able
to
run their homeschool machines with the same software available.
I guess I ought to take this to private email as well....
> Marty
>
>
> ______________________________ Reply Separator
> _________________________________
> Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed
> Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
> Date: 7/16/98 8:44 AM
>
> Marty wrote:
>
> > Found an easy path to the info you need:
> >
> > 1. Access www.dell.com
>
> Marty is your Phoenix bios in your 4066/XE at A17? This is supposed to fix
a
> lot of
> things including some sort of Y2K bug. Just installed it and it works
nearly
> invisible. It's on Dell's web site or FTP as 4xxXEA17.EXE
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> Russ Blakeman
> RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
> Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
> Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
> Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
> ICQ UIN #1714857
> AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN"
> * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
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> <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed
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RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
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To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu, marty(a)itgonline.com
Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed
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Oh man! Talk about a day late... I "donated" a whole ton of Amiga
mice/keyboards to a friend when I moved from Chicago to Boston.
Tony
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Uncle Roger [mailto:sinasohn@ricochet.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 10:53 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Amiga Mice (and Atari)
>
>
> At 06:55 PM 7/7/98 +0100, you wrote:
> >> >Also, are the keyboard and mouse PC-compatible?
> >>
> >> Alas, no. The keyboard will run you about $60, and the
> mouse about $15.
>
> There seems to be a guy who posts Amiga/Atari mice for sale pretty
> regularly on the Antique Computers section of Haggle (or it
> may be either
> Workstations or Other Computers); I think they sell for about
> $15. There's
> also a woman (Brenda Watson?) who sells Atari mice; I bought
> one and it
> seems fine. No connection, yada yada yada.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ------- O-
>
> Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
> roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but
> madmen know."
> Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
> San Francisco, California
http://www.sinasohn.com/
Weird Stuff Warehouse! The ultimate store for computer junk!
http://www.weirdstuff.com/
Tony
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kai Kaltenbach [mailto:kaikal@MICROSOFT.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 8:24 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Places to visit in Silicon Valley?
>
>
> I'm going to be visiting the silicon valley area and I'd
> appreciate any tips
> on where to look for interesting old computer gear.
>
> This is a one-time visit so if you're afraid of spreading the
> word around on
> your favorite spots, send me email instead of posting to the
> list, I won't
> tell anyone your secrets, I swear!
>
> thanks,
>
> Kai
>
Not that I'm aware of. We are supporting a couple hundred Dell 4066/XE
Interactive Unix servers which are at the end of their life cycle and
being replaced by Compaq Proliant 2500 and 5000 servers. We have one
in-house 4066/XE for building root drives for field servers. All other
times the 4066/XE sleeps.
Marty
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 7/16/98 8:44 AM
Marty wrote:
> Found an easy path to the info you need:
>
> 1. Access www.dell.com
Marty is your Phoenix bios in your 4066/XE at A17? This is supposed to fix a
lot of
things including some sort of Y2K bug. Just installed it and it works nearly
invisible. It's on Dell's web site or FTP as 4xxXEA17.EXE
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ UIN #1714857
AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN"
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
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From: Russ Blakeman <rhblake(a)bbtel.com>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed
References: <1998Jul13.141642.1767.118341(a)smtp.itgonline.com>
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-----Original Message-----
From: dave dameron <ddameron(a)earthlink.net>
>Speaking of books,
>has anyone seen the book "We Built our own Computers" by A.B. Holt,
>Cambridge Univ. Press, published about 1966.
Yes, I've got it here (bought as part of a $3 per bag haul from a charity
book sale a month ago).
You are right about year and publisher, but the "author" was Bolt, not
Holt - it is part of a series called School Mathematics Project Handbooks
and A.B Bolt actually lists himself as "supervisor" of 6 Exeter School 6th
form boys who actually wrote the book.
It describes a binary adder, a NIM machine, a noughts and crosses machine
....
I see a few other replies, so that it is not all that rare :(
- but what exactly did you want to know for?
Phil Guerney
Brisbane, Australia
Found an easy path to the info you need:
1. Access www.dell.com
2. Click on the SUPPORT wrench at the top of the home page.
3. Click on TROUBLESHOOT YOUR DELL SYSTEM
4. Now you will be prompted to HELP US IDENTIFY YOUR SYSTEM <or>
OR SELECT YOUR SYSTEM MODEL. Under SELECT YOUR SYSTEM MODEL
click on the last choice, All Other Product Lines.
5. Under All Other Product Lines, click on 80486.
6. Now you will see 80486 highlighted in black on the left of the
screen. On the right side click on the second choice from the top
which is 40XX/XE and you will finally be there.
The address is http://www.dell.com/support/tech/dta/4000XE/index.htm
By the way, the Dell 4066/XE is a great server, very reliable and well
built from my experience.
Marty
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 7/13/98 1:09 PM
Been there, done that. I got driver files but nothing more. Will have to dig a
little further I guess....Nice machine though, but big enough to put a cushion
on use for a couch :-)
Marty wrote:
> At http:/www.dell.com you will find everything you need although you
> will need to do some digging as Dell seems to change this site and the
> method to find info every six months. Anyway, you will find
> troubleshooting info, tech specs, jumper settings, illustrations, etc.
>
> Marty
>
> ______________________________ Reply Separator
> _________________________________
> Subject: Dell 4066/XE info needed
> Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
> Date: 7/11/98 11:10 PM
>
> Just picked up a Dell 4066/XE 486DX2 server unit, complete. It has EISA
> slots, tons of drive slots, etc...It is in a BIG case!!....
>
> Anyone possibly have a manual for one of these? I'd like to buy one, pay
> for a copy, get a scan over the net, something. With all of you that
> work in corporate business someone might have one, or know of an online
> text or PDF copy.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> Russ Blakeman
> RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
> Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
> Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
> Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
> ICQ UIN #1714857
> AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN"
> * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
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--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ UIN #1714857
AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN"
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
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Subject: Re: Dell 4066/XE info needed
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My girlfriend and I are hoping to go on holiday at the beginning of August,
and right now, it looks like Denver/Boulder will be our destination. So,
does anyone know of any good thrift shops/swapmeets/etc. in the area?
(And, off-topically, antique or teacher stores? Gotta keep the gf happy
too! 8^) Thanks!
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
Folks, here's something I found on the Boatanchors Swap List.
Wonder if they're ASR-33's? If so, they are of interest to us that collect
early DEC and Data General, etc. computers.
Of course, contact WA6GYD directly to rescue these -I'm just passing this
lead on....
>X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.foothill.net: majordom set sender to
owner-baswaplist(a)foothill.net using -f
>From: WA6GYD(a)aol.com
>Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:02:04 EDT
>To: baswaplist(a)foothill.net
>Subject: Free Telatype brand telatypes
>X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49
>Sender: owner-baswaplist(a)foothill.net
>
>2 late model machines with re-perfs on floor stands with power supplys.
>These need to be picked up this week 16th or 17th July or they will be
thrown
>in dump.
>
>they are located in So San Francisco. need reply of interest tonite or
>tommorow.
>
>Don
>
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/
Found on Usenet. If you're interested, get hold of the fellow directly.
Attachment follows.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
On Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:35:25 -0700, in comp.os.vms you wrote:
>>From: Mike Graff <mgraff(a)aimnet.com>
>>Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
>>Subject: LA120 available - interested?
>>Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:35:25 -0700
>>Organization: Wombat Internet Guild
>>Lines: 12
>>Message-ID: <35AD3CA4.AFB9FECD(a)aimnet.com>
>>Reply-To: mgraff(a)aimnet.com
>>NNTP-Posting-Host: host52.macsource.com
>>Mime-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC)
>>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news.burgoyne.com!news.eecs.umich.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news1.best.com!204.188.144.17.MISMATCH!batnet!not-for-mail
>>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I've got an old LA120 hardcopy terminal (aka DECWRITER III) to give away.
>>
>>The unit is fully functional (as far as I can tell). I've got some spare
>>ribbons for it too.
>>
>>You come haul it away, it's yours. I am located in the San Francisco Bay
>>Area. First come first served. Email me at mgraff(a)computerware.com.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Mike
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272)
http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net
Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period.
I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW.
> The tapes are spoken for. John Lawson claimed the stack, with Dave
>Jenner a close second. Glad to see they're going to a good home. Thanks,
>folks!
Any chance someone could determine if there are any sig tapes among the
stack which aren't currently available from any of the pdp-11 archives
and make sure the archives get a copy? (Tim Shoppa?)
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com |
| Digital Equipment Corporation | |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Fellow sent me a message to the effect that he's got a stack of various
DEC and T1000 boards available. If interested, please contact him directly at:
jboldway(a)cottagesoft.com
List follows.
-=-=- <break> -=-=-
Here's a list of boards:
2 X G114
2 X G235
1 X H207
2 X H217
1 X M225
1 X M3104
4 X M7168
2 X M7169
1 X M7231
1 X M7233
1 X M7234
1 X M7235
1 X M7236
1 X M7238
2 X M7555
2 X M7606
2 X M7607
2 X M7608
1 X M8012
1 X M8027
1 X M8186
2 X M8637
1 X M8639
4 X M9047
2 X clearpoint Q-RAM 11B with 76 256K chips per board
packed in as tight as you could put them. Bet these burned out from heat
problems really fast!
"Codar Technology" model 120 calender clock. A battery backup, I presume -
2 x 3V duracell batteries on this board.
The other T1000 boards:
3 X T1019
1 X T1003
1 X T1002
1 X T1012
1 X T1014
2 X T1001
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
At 01:10 PM 7/12/98 PDT, you wrote:
>black cube, the size of a NeXT cube, but balanced on one corner with
>little feet supporting it. It's made of aluminum and is just a regular
Actually, that sounds like a pretty neat idea. I'll have to check it out...
>uglier than the NeXT, and I don't quite know the reason for making it a
Simple... To differentiate it from the hordes of other technically
identical PC's available. If I had to choose between a standard PC-type
case and something like that (on a consumer level) I'd definitely go for
the oddball. Consider Bang and Olufsen stereos -- same thing.
>cube - it doesn't support four motherboards or anything! Just thought
>you people might be interested.
Hmmm... Seems to me that two PC's stacked on top of each other is just
about a cube. So, why not a case that has two motherboards, with an
integral Monitor/kb/mouse switch...
_______________
||--- ||
||--- ||
||--- ||
|| [ ] ---||
|| [ ] ---||
|| [ ] ---||
---------------
^ ^ ^
| | \
| \ ---- Mobo 2 with Exp Cards
\ ---- Drives (Shared Floppy?)
---- Mobo 1, with Exp Cards
Okay, so maybe there isn't any point or anything, but I still think it's a
cool idea... Hmmm... Mac on one side, PC on the other?
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
At 06:55 PM 7/7/98 +0100, you wrote:
>> >Also, are the keyboard and mouse PC-compatible?
>>
>> Alas, no. The keyboard will run you about $60, and the mouse about $15.
There seems to be a guy who posts Amiga/Atari mice for sale pretty
regularly on the Antique Computers section of Haggle (or it may be either
Workstations or Other Computers); I think they sell for about $15. There's
also a woman (Brenda Watson?) who sells Atari mice; I bought one and it
seems fine. No connection, yada yada yada.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
>But Andromeda has long supported 3.5" floppies under MSCP
>emulation, both as 1.2 Mbyte
>and 1.44 Mbyte devices. It's very possible that the UDC11 has
>been configured to report back the drive type as RX33. My Andromeda
>SCDC can be configured to work either way. Don't you have a ESDC,
>Megan? Ever try a 3.5" floppy on it?
Nope, because I don't have the adapter that is required for
connecting to such a drive...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com |
| Digital Equipment Corporation | |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
>Do there exist DEC drives A and B such that A and B have their own
>(different) 'native' packs, and packs from A can also be read (at least)
>in B, but not vice versa
I don't know of any such disk packs (in fact, there is one combination,
I forget which, which will result in a volume spindle swedged into the
drive spindle -- making the drive so much worthless hardware)
However, TK50 and TK70 fit the bill... you can read TK50s on a TK70,
but not write them. Tapes written on a TK70 cannot be read on a TK50.
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com |
| Digital Equipment Corporation | |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
