LARTed with a tesla coil, right? So how do you propose using a pc in
a building without three-prong sockets?
>I do, and if I catch anyone removing safety earth connections in my
>workshop, they will be LARTed. I am serious. I've worked enough with
the
>mains to know how dangerous it can be.
>
I doubt 240 vs. 110 is much difference as far as heart muscle is
concerned
>(a) If I want to commit suicide I will do :-). But I don't want to set
>booby traps in my workshop. Perhaps I'm more careful becausewe've got
240V
>mains here.
>
So, why have I never felt anything touching a PC case? I've done it
many times, I've touched insides many times, and I've never felt so
much as a tingle. Would I be able to use a VOM to find this voltage?
>
>Right, an explanation. The 'Earth' wire goes to the metal PC case, and
>also to the thrid pin of the plug. 'Neutral' is connected to earth at
the
>main distribution board (US), last distribution transformer (UK), and
is
>effectively earth. And live is 110V (or 240V) above that.
>
>Now, the 2 capacitors on the left form a capacitive potential divider.
So
>if the earth wire is not bonded to ground, then the midpoint of that is
>going to be at half mains voltage - 55V (or 120V) wrt neutral, which is
>efectively local earth. That means the case of the PC - the external
metal
>case - is at that voltage wrt local earth. Now the capacitor values
>_should_ limit the available current, but I'd not bet on it. Also, the
>capacitors should be a special safety type which are unable to fail
>shorted (I forget the type - it's either class X or class Y), but I've
>seen plenty of cheap-n-nasty PSUs with just 600V capacitors in this
>position. If I spot them like that, they get replaced, BTW.
>
>And that's what I'm going on about. Not that the keyboard was live, but
>that the metal case of the PC had a significant voltage wrt local
earth.
>Normally you'd not notice it - the front panel is probably plastic, so
>are the floppy drives, etc. But reach round the back to plug in the
>keyboard cable, touch the back of the case, and zap!
>
>
>> like mine, it's very difficult to maintain wiring and even talk about
>
>> sometime...I'm very lax with safety precautions. There is no way the
>
>I am not fanatical about safety - I do plenty of things that can be
>considered dangerous. I use machine tools, I change CRTs, I work on
>30kV supplies, I work on mains, I repair SMPSUs, I even work on live
>equipment if necessary. And yes I defeat safety interlocks if there's a
>good reason for so doing, and I know what the consequences are. But
there's
>no way you'll catch me removing an earth connection without a _very_
good
>reason.
>
>
>> boy could have electrocuted himself with any modern keyboard I know
>> of, since it's mostly impossible to get to the components inside them
>> w/o taking the thing apart. An XT keyboard, OTOH, is metal which
>
>The backplate of an XT keyboard is connected to the body of the DIN
plug.
>If that's live for any reason, then there's something seriously wrong -
>see above.
>
>> could kill someone if the keyboard is damaged or plugged into the
>
>There is no voltage on a keyboard connector that can kill - at least
not
>if the rest of the PC is correctly wired. I'd touch any component in a
>working XT keyboard and I'd live to tell the tale.
>
>> wrong place. More likely is that he touched a bad power cable with
>> hand. If the PC got moved and the keyboard got unplugged, it could
>> undo any cables spliced together w/scotch tape (another of my bad
>
>Argh!!! I prefer to use proper cable joined with proper connectors -
with
>insulation and strain reliefs.
>
>-tony
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
In message "VC404 The Standard", lwalker(a)mail.interlog.com writes:
> One of my recent curbside finds is a machine put out by a Canadian company
>based in Waterloo Ont called Volker-Craig model vg-400. On the front it has a
>title VC404 The Standard.
I also have a 404, discarded from a university lab many years ago.
These terminals seem to have been popular in university student
terminal rooms because they were relatively cheap. I seem to recall
that the company founders were ex-University of Waterloo people.
I've seen 404s not just in Canada but also in Britain, where they were
the standard terminals on a university Vax system I once used. So I'm
not too surprised Tony has a tech manual. (Actually, I wouldn't be
surprised if Tony had a tech manual for Noah's Ark :)
>It has a k-b attached with ribbon cable
Unfortunately the keyboards were not that robust and after a few
generations of students pounding away on them, the keyboard or the
ribbon cable often became unreliable.
>In the back it
>has a 25 pin RS232 connector, a BNC labelled "composite video" ,2 switches :
>one 3-pos.to configure parity the other "Transparent on off"
That video connector on the back was useful for hooking into a big
classroom overhead monitor so a whole class could learn from observing a
terminal session.
These terminals are very helpful for debugging RS-232 communications.
The "transparent" switch on the back lets you choose to display all the
ASCII control codes (eg, instead of performing a "line feed" it displays
a little LF symbol).
Larry, I don't have any tech docs but I do have a thin user manual.
About all it tells you is what the special control codes are to clear
the screen, move the cursor, etc. Still, it's the information you need
to run Wordstar with it! E-mail me with your snail-mail address
and I'll run off a copy for you.
Regards,
Arlen
--
Arlen Michaels
Nortel
Ottawa, Canada (613) 763-2568 amichael(a)nortel.ca
I have never gotten real spam to my address, non-real spam being
unwanted jokes and chain letters from people who have my address.
It's amazing, every few weeks the "Bill Gates goes to heaven" joke
is rediscovered...
>I don't know, fact is that my SPAM statistc shows an increase
>of around 5% since I'm on this list - this might be just the
>usual SPAM inflation, but taking your guesses, it might also
>be list related. (My SPAM statistics are don by my self made
>SPAM killer bot - a vcollection of key word filters - the most
>usefull filter just triggering '$$$' :)
>
>Gruss
>H.
>
>--
>Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
>HRK
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Weird. Maybe there is damage to some ROM somewhere? If you have
another floppy drive, try plugging that in. I've never had any
problems with my Superdrive
>On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:45:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Owad
<tomowad(a)earthlink.net>
>wrote:
>
>> 3. It will not accept an 800k disk formatted by an SE/30 which
>>contains System 6.0.1.
>> 4. It *will* accept an 800k installer disk, but it complains
that
>the
>>disk contains a "minimal" script file, and that I need a "full"
install
>>script. Arrrgh...
>
>>>So you actually get a happy Mac when you insert that disk? Have you
>>>tried a genuine System Tools disk?
>
> Yes, this is an *original* 6.0.1 installer disk from the
aforementioned
>SE/30. It boots, but complains about the script type. This is the
*only*
>disk that I've gotten to work so far.
>
>
>Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com>
> - ClubWin/CW6
> - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
> - Preserver of "classic" computers
><<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I am sorry, but I really have to ask this before I do anything else.
THe keyboard ribbon cable on the thing had some chipped contacts at
the location of a bend near the socket. This prevented use of many
keys. So, I trimmed the cable. This lets the kb work fine, but is
barely long enough to get to the edge connector, and once there it
won't stay properly. And now the damn thing is becoming chipped
again. What should I do? I can't replace the ribbon because the whole
keyboard circuit board is one piece of plastic film (two layers).
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
At 02:41 PM 7/22/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>I'm also planning obfuscation of e-mail addresses, to foil spammers. My
[...]
>That hardly seems worth it. Do that robots really browse web pages for
>email addresses (particularly pages like this)? And what if my email
Yep, they do. I've got a page stored on my pager that came from a spammer
trolling for e-mail addresses on web pages. (My pager can be reached at
<4152010273(a)alphapage.airtouch.com> and there is are links to said address
on my site.) I've gotten several such pages (but only keep the one to show
people.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
I was corresponding with this fellow a while back. He indicated that some
or all of the gear listed -might- get shipped to a staging point in the US
of A.
I've had no further word on that, and I'm in no position to buy anything
right at the moment. However, that may not hold true for other
CLASSICCMP'ers. With that in mind, check out the site and, if interested,
contact Mr. Tey directly.
Attachment follows.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
>X-Sender: wmtey(a)post1.com
>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:41:11 +0800
>To: "Anuar Omar" <omara(a)tm.net.my>, joe(a)ar.co.th, sakchai(a)ar.co.th,
> Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)jps.net>, chaiyut(a)irc.co.th,
<big snip of CC's>
>From: william tey <wmtey(a)post1.com>
>Subject: bargain hunting!
>
>pls visit our web page at:
>
>http://www.berkeley.com.sg/surplus.htm
>
>for best bargain in town!
>
>
>william tey
>berkeley electronics pte ltd
>135 joo seng road #05-03
>pm industrial building
>singapore 368363
>joo chiat p.o. box 0859
>singapore 914202
>tel: (65)382-5998, fax: (65)382-5982
>email: wmtey(a)post1.com
>
>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
> Unfortunatly anyone that posts to this list is suceptable to SPAM since
> these message are archived on the web.
> Then again, maybe I'm just starting to get overly paranoid, but I doubt it.
I don't know, fact is that my SPAM statistc shows an increase
of around 5% since I'm on this list - this might be just the
usual SPAM inflation, but taking your guesses, it might also
be list related. (My SPAM statistics are don by my self made
SPAM killer bot - a vcollection of key word filters - the most
usefull filter just triggering '$$$' :)
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
At 10:19 PM 7/22/98 -0400, you wrote:
>On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:56:30, Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote:
>
>
>> Does anyone have a copy of the Tim Patterson (Seattle Computer
>Products)
>>article series from Byte? I belive that it talked about DOS (...or QDOS or
>>86/DOS...). Thanks.
>>
>>>I may have the original article. What issue was it in?
>
Does anyone know if there was an index published for BYTE? Don't remember
even annual ones in the Dec. issues. I always missed them.
I do have a short one which goes to the end of 1976. Some of my issues are
in boxes where I cannot get to very easily.
-Dave
On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:56:30, Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote:
> Does anyone have a copy of the Tim Patterson (Seattle Computer
Products)
>article series from Byte? I belive that it talked about DOS (...or QDOS or
>86/DOS...). Thanks.
>
>>I may have the original article. What issue was it in?
I don't know. Tim Shoppa mentioned the article series last week, and
since I'm on a DOS 1.1 reverse engineering kick lately, I thought that the
article would be appropriate.
I would guess if Tim Patterson is talking about the predecessor of DOS,
it would be in the late-79 to mid-80 range (hedging by bets a little). I
guess that it could be as late as mid-1981 (based on the introduction of the
5150).
Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com>
- ClubWin/CW6
- MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
- Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>
>Okay, I am now irked enough at that dead "Rescue List", that I've put up my
>own version of it, copied from the old one. I hereby bring the ancient curse
>upon myself.
Great!
>I'm also planning obfuscation of e-mail addresses, to foil spammers. My
>favorite scheme is to insert extra letters, and leave an English description
>of how to correct it (such as abcxde(a)foox.baxr "remove x's"). Let me know
>if you object to this treatment of your address.
That hardly seems worth it. Do that robots really browse web pages for
email addresses (particularly pages like this)? And what if my email
address has an 'x' in it?
Anyway, please add me to the list.
Pennsylvania
Tom Owad
York, PA
tomowad(a)earthlink.net
Location: Southcentral PA., Willing to pick up. How far I'll go depends
on how interesting the computer is.
Area of Interest: Anything other than IBM PC's and compatibles,
especially Apples and DECs
Thanks,
Tom
--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>
On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:45:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Owad <tomowad(a)earthlink.net>
wrote:
> 3. It will not accept an 800k disk formatted by an SE/30 which
>contains System 6.0.1.
> 4. It *will* accept an 800k installer disk, but it complains that
the
>disk contains a "minimal" script file, and that I need a "full" install
>script. Arrrgh...
>>So you actually get a happy Mac when you insert that disk? Have you
>>tried a genuine System Tools disk?
Yes, this is an *original* 6.0.1 installer disk from the aforementioned
SE/30. It boots, but complains about the script type. This is the *only*
disk that I've gotten to work so far.
Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com>
- ClubWin/CW6
- MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
- Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>
Do you have those weird two-prong things? My building is full of them
They're screws with a rounded head, and nothing on it but two little
pits.
>> > Ever done an IBM 5151 monitor? It's painful, and the details are
not in
>> > any IBM manual (for all there's a schematic given).
>>
>> The thing I don't like about a lot of IBM stuff is the torx screws
with a
>> pin in the middle to stop as ordinary torx bit fitting. (I have been
known
>
>Yes, PC power supplies tend to be full of them. The proper tool - a
>tamperproof Torx bit - is pretty easy to obtain, actually. As are
>tamperproof hex (like allen keys with a hole in the middle), tri-wing,
>Torq, etc. I have the lot...
>
>-tony
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
At 09:04 AM 7/21/98 PDT, you wrote:
>knowing that the thing must be turned. What's a CLI?
CLI: Command Line Interface
(As in, DOS, CP/M, RSTS/E, (sometimes) Unix, TRSDOS, MPE, etc.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
This one actually cost me some bucks, so I'll want to get at least
something for it. However, I promise not to be outrageous. ;-)
I have an operating/service manual, brand new, for the Hewlett-Packard
3456A DVM (yes, the meter's over ten years old -- produced in 1982, to be
exact). I'd like to see it go to someone who has one of the meters but no
manual.
HP gets $44.00 plus tax for the thing. I'm asking $25.00, plus postage.
Anyone?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
Sorry about the blanks, folks, Lynx doesn't let me delete them.
This one I must agree with. Thank god I had some metric phillips
drivers to turn those Torx screws!!!
>You forgot one category: Most difficult to open. The last LTE I tried
to
>open required the skill of a surgeon to dissassemble.
>
>Jeff
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
For one thing, I don't think there's anything wrong with cheaters,
I have three or four connected to power strips and a microwave. If
a problem should happen, touching the case could cause instant death,
but a) so what b) what are the odds c)in an old apartment building
like mine, it's very difficult to maintain wiring and even talk about
it to the landlord. They won't even replace the valves on the
radiators! I might decide to actually attach those things to ground
sometime...I'm very lax with safety precautions. There is no way the
boy could have electrocuted himself with any modern keyboard I know
of, since it's mostly impossible to get to the components inside them
w/o taking the thing apart. An XT keyboard, OTOH, is metal which
could kill someone if the keyboard is damaged or plugged into the
wrong place. More likely is that he touched a bad power cable with
hand. If the PC got moved and the keyboard got unplugged, it could
undo any cables spliced together w/scotch tape (another of my bad
habits). In general, it's not too hard to believe. There's nothing
that could be done to prevent this from happening every so often.
>
>I would offer the following possible explanations :
>
>The PC was earthed (as it should be), and the boy was carrying a static
>charge. Zap!, but not fatal, or even a cause of serious injury.
Touching
>any piece of earthed metal would have had the same effect
>
>The PC case was connected to mains earth, which for some reason due to
>dangerous wiring wasn't the same as the local earth. If that's the
case,
>time to check out all the wiring before more accidents happen.
>
>The PC case wasn't earthed, and was floating at about half mains
voltage
>due to the filtering components. This is acutally a nasty problem, and
is
>caused by idiots who use those 2 pin cheater adapters. The mains filter
>capacitors shouldn't be able to pass enough current to be fatal, but
I'd
>not bet on it.
>
>The boy tried to plug the keyboard into something other than the PC's
>keyboard port :-).
>
>> are trying to conn a computer out of their parents.
>> If I hear any more I will pass it along.
>>
>> Charlie Fox
>>
>>
>
>-tony
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Okay, I am now irked enough at that dead "Rescue List", that I've put up my
own version of it, copied from the old one. I hereby bring the ancient curse
upon myself.
The URL is http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/ccrs_list.html . I
have added a "Current as of" date for each person, to help root out obsolete
info. Right now, those are all set to the list creation date (11-Jun-97).
If you find any of your info is wrong, let me know.
I'm also planning obfuscation of e-mail addresses, to foil spammers. My
favorite scheme is to insert extra letters, and leave an English description
of how to correct it (such as abcxde(a)foox.baxr "remove x's"). Let me know
if you object to this treatment of your address.
Bill.
I'm not sure if this would qualify as classic or not, but I have a little VLB
486 machine that needs a 32-bit Ethernet BNC NIC. If you have one you'd like to
unload, please email. I've got a bunch of old books and manuals (mostly IBM
stuff) for trade, or I have some money laying around if you prefer it. <g>
thanks
David
--
David Wollmann
DST / DST Data Conversion
ICQ: 10742063
http://www.ibmhelp.com/
On Wed, 22 Jul 1998 Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk wrote:
> If our American friends will forgive my patriotic prejudice, the main
> reason I have less than no wish to go and work/live in the US is the
> legal system and culture that generates occurrences like these.
I guess you have to grow up with the right mindset. True, the system is
bizarre, but sometimes it can work in your favor too, if you can get a
better shyster^h^h^h^h^h lawyer.
And in the end, if you can't get justice any other way, there are always
alternative options, such as a firebomb through the window at midnight,
or for those especially egregious offenses, a business deal with your
local mafia representative to "eliminate" the problem once and for all
time (a time honored tradition here in Las Vegas).
Jack Peacock
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz............
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: RE: off topic: ridiculous law suits was Re: Compaq
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 7/22/98 5:15 PM
Jack Peacock wrote:
>And in the end, if you can't get justice any other way, there are always
>alternative options, such as a firebomb through the window at midnight,
>or for those especially egregious offenses, a business deal with your
>local mafia representative to "eliminate" the problem once and for all
>time (a time honored tradition here in Las Vegas).
> Jack Peacock
As my friend, Vinnie, once told me many years ago, "Legbreakers are cheaper
than lawyers, and often more effective". The other piece of advice he gave
me was, "Never antagonize guys whose middle name is 'The'.
R.
--
Warbaby
The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire.
http://www.warbaby.com
The MonkeyPool
WebSite Content Development
http://www.monkeypool.com
Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies.
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From: Rax <rax(a)warbaby.com>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: off topic: ridiculous law suits was Re: Compaq
In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C4E2(a)mail.simconv.com>
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>>> Pilot and passenger die in 1947 Piper Cub afer crashing on take off.
>>> Two fatal, payment over $25,000,000. Reason, no shoulder harnesses.
[rest of story snipped - you've all seen it several times!]
> I have to throw in my 2 cents worth. You read about this stuff but you
> wonder if it really happens. IT DOES! A member of my family was one of
> the defendents in a trial very similar to this. The thing about that trial
> that amazed me was the facts that were keep FROM the jury. The behind the
> scenes rangling to suppress evidence was incredible. It's no wonder
> lawyers get such huge settlements considering how the jurys are
> manipulated and spoon feed only what the lawyers want them to hear.
What price the oath to tell "the whole truth"?
(In danger of getting seriously off topic here!)
If our American friends will forgive my patriotic prejudice, the main
reason I have less than no wish to go and work/live in the US is the
legal system and culture that generates occurrences like these.
It is marginally (but only marginally) better over here - European
harmonisation is making it worse, as did the Margaret Thatcher
premiership...
Philip.
On Tue, 21 Jul 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote:
> > On Sun, 19 Jul 1998, Wayne Cox wrote:
> > > Hi, I was given this email address as being the "Classic Computer
> > > Collectors List." Not sure if it is a "subscribe to" mailing list or an
> > > individual.
> >
> > This is THE place 8-) Hope you got subscribed ok - if not - try again.
> > ...
> > Name: Classic Computer Rescue List
> > URL: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/1055/classic.html
> > (Collectors by areas)
> > Name: The Classic Computer Encyclopedia Page
> > URL: http://www.xnet.com/~danjo/classic/
> > (Darn near dead - no input for about 6 months...)
> > Name: Classic Computer ListOp
> > URL: http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp/
> > (Hmmmm... Bill - ya want to move this to a working system?)
> >
>
> And don't forget Bill Yakowenko's classiccmp distributed Web-page archives at
>
> http://www .cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp
Uh, I took that down due to zero participation. A distributed anything
with only one node is a truly pitiful sight.
There is still a web page there, but now it's just my own little corner
of the web - no more grand schemes.
Bill.
Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)servtech.com> wrote:
> DC600 carts are the _physical_ media on which data is stored. I wasn't
> saying DC600 is a format nor was QICxx a format HP uses (never knew what
> protocol HP used 'til you mentioned HCD a bit later in yr msg.)
Yes, the physical carts seem to be the same -- it's easy enough to
scribble over the HCD formatting with a QIC format, at which point the
tape is no longer usable in an HCD drive.
So far as I know the HCD formatting must be written at the factory, and
the tapes I've seen have had either HP or 3M labels on them.
HP also seems to put down its own higher-level format on the tapes
that it sells. Here's a story:
Once upon a time the purchasing agent found she could save a few bucks
ordering the 3M flavor of the tapes, and so we got one for testing.
Well...on the 3000, the software for manipulating these things treats
them as serial discs (which is exactly as wacky as it sounds, the tape
drive is a CS/80 device and so the tapes are addressed by block), and
so you're supposed to use the VINIT tool to format the "disc" and
"serialize" it (i.e. write a volume label that says "this is a serial
disc" for auto-volume recognition to read later). So what I noticed
in my tests was that the 3M tape, when new, took 15 minutes for the
FORMAT step, vs. the HP tapes which took seconds. I suspect that the
time was taken by the tape drive formatting the tape and writing out
the canonical CS/80 stuff like bad-block sparing tables and so forth,
and that HP does this at their factory.
-Frank McConnell
Fine, fine, if you insist...in ' The Soul of a New Machine', it is
mentioned that IBM in the late '70s was in court almost continuously.
What was the bulk of this about?
>
>How about classic computers?
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
> September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
> [Last web page update: 07/21/98]
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> Thread getting old now...how about talking about abortion, politics, or
> environmental issues? Or maybe ice fishing. Cripes...
Cripes ?????
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
> While we're on this subject, are stupid lawsuits as common in UK
> and other countries as the US?
No, at least in Germany most of these laughable cases are
rejectet from court. But we like to laugh about the US system.
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
> Hans Franke wrote:
>> b) I had, until I switched to ISDN, still a 1927 Telephone
>> in every day use. Worked fine, even with the latest (analogue)
>> exchange :) - Noy I connect it via an a/b adaptor.
> Well done. But, pardon my ignorance, what is an a/b adaptor?
Sorry German tech talk - a/b are the 'names' of the two wires
for two wire (analogue) telephone connections - and an a/b-adaptor
is just a ISDN <-> analogue converter - so you van connect old
phones (dtmf and pulse) to ISDN lines.
> I've often wondered about adding a BCD-DTMF chip and a pulse counter to
> make dial phones do tones for all the robots you ring up and have to
> type numbers to communicate with. But where do I put # and *?
> Suggestions?
SHIFT-ALT-CTRL-1 ?
Grin(s)
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
Hans Franke wrote:
> b) I had, until I switched to ISDN, still a 1927 Telephone
> in every day use. Worked fine, even with the latest (analogue)
> exchange :) - Noy I connect it via an a/b adaptor.
Well done. But, pardon my ignorance, what is an a/b adaptor?
I've often wondered about adding a BCD-DTMF chip and a pulse counter to
make dial phones do tones for all the robots you ring up and have to
type numbers to communicate with. But where do I put # and *?
Suggestions?
Philip.
I need a manual or a decent copy of one and any other available info on the
Iomega ALPHA-10 SCSI removable disk drive. Nothing at the Iomega website,
just the newer stuff.
Thanks, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: 22 July 1998 19:00
Subject: Re: Idiots
>On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote:
>
>> While we're on this subject, are stupid lawsuits as common in UK
>> and other countries as the US?
>>
>> ______________________________________________________
>> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>It is my understanding that in UK the loser pays all legal costs which
>tends to discourage filing frivolous suits.
No, this is no the case.
I know personaly of a case where the victim lost more in expenses bringing
the case to court than the offender was eventually fined for the offence.
It's all a bit backward in the UK I'm afraid.
Compensation for serious injury is a complete joke.
We have murderers released from prison after serving only half of their
sentance.
So, while I laugh at the "My neighbour pulled a nasty face at my cat" type
lawsuits in the US. I do feel that the system in the UK is grossly unfair in
the opposite way, with the victims of crime rarely receiving justice.
Sie
Hello List-ites....
I have a question for the non-RT11-impaired among us:
I am attempting (sporadically) to get an 11/34a back in it's
original shape, when it ran a Hollywood audio company's accounting
and sales functions. It had two RK05s and several software packages
running under MACRO, Unix, and USCD pSystem Pascal.
Right now only one of the drives is hooked up, set to drive '0'.
It will boot and run the UCSD stuff and it will boot RT-11(V2.0)....
except that, in 7 out of the 7 packs with RT-11.... it is as if KMON
was missing or damaged; it boots up to the dot prompt and then
returns the ?ILL? message no matter which command I give it. I have
RT-11(V5.0) on my 11/73 and it is fully functional, so I have had
some cursory (N.P.I.) experience with the OS.
I am at another one of those self-teaching impasses.. I can't do
much more with the system the way it is... sigh.
Has anyone any ideas? Magic words? Mystery switches? Or should I
just chuck this wretched humiliating heavy loud time-consuming
suppossed-to-be-a-fun-toy..... sorry. Time for my meds again. I'm
fine now... quite calm actually.
help.
Cheers.....
John
PS: Anyone found a junk Kennedy 9300 tape machine whose vacuum
column door is in good shape... I *need* one real bad....
J
>> That's dead, I'll replace it. Should I also change the black bar-
>> shaped 7.5 v cell? It's dead too, and I don't know what it's for.
>
> I'm not sure if the 7.5V bettery is required for the machine to power
> up, on the other hand, it wasn't _designed_ to be dead, so it can do no
> harm to replace it.
It isn't required. Replacing mine did no good (ie powered up but didn't
retain all settings, with old or new battery). New ones, being NiCd,
are supplied fully discharged anyway.
Philip.
>> This one I must agree with. Thank god I had some metric phillips
>> drivers to turn those Torx screws!!!
>> >You forgot one category: Most difficult to open. The last LTE I tried
>> to
>> >open required the skill of a surgeon to dissassemble.
Phillips driver to turn a Torx screw? Shame on you! Flat bladed much
more effective provided you select the correct width ;-)
> Since when does the use of Torx screws make something difficult to
> dismantle? They're a lot better than the crosspoint (Phillips, Pozidriv,
> etc) screws, which almost seem to be designed to cause the driver to
> 'cam out' when you try to shift them.
>
> Dismantling is easy, anyway. It's getting it back together that's
> interesting...
Dismantling the LTE-lite 20 is not easy. For those who wish to have a
go:
1. Find the four obvious screws at the back of the case. Make sure
they are properly done up :-) Don't undo them! If you do you will
cause permanent damage.
2. Remove battery. Screwdriver inside battery compartment will pop
some of the clips that hold the top cover off.
3. Work around the edges, using additional force at the front corners,
until top cover fully popped. Then fold screen right back and lift off
cover.
4. Next undo the screw that holds the display cable in place (for cable
read flexible pcb) and unplug said cable.
5. Then and only then can you undo the four screws at the back, and
detach the screen.
Thereafter, fairly obvious. All the screws are Torx 9, except for a few
very small phillips in the display...
If you start by undoing the obvious screws, you will tear the display
cable, and it costs around 30 pounds to replace. Compaq don't sell to
the general public. but will tell you the names of dealers who do.
(Guess how I found that out!)
Philip.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Idiots
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 7/22/98 2:09 PM
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: 22 July 1998 19:00
Subject: Re: Idiots
>On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, Max Eskin wrote:
>
>> While we're on this subject, are stupid lawsuits as common in UK
>> and other countries as the US?
>>
>> ______________________________________________________
>> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>It is my understanding that in UK the loser pays all legal costs which
>tends to discourage filing frivolous suits.
No, this is no the case.
I know personaly of a case where the victim lost more in expenses bringing
the case to court than the offender was eventually fined for the offence.
It's all a bit backward in the UK I'm afraid.
Compensation for serious injury is a complete joke.
We have murderers released from prison after serving only half of their
sentance.
So, while I laugh at the "My neighbour pulled a nasty face at my cat" type
lawsuits in the US. I do feel that the system in the UK is grossly unfair in
the opposite way, with the victims of crime rarely receiving justice.
Sie
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From: "Sie Raybould" <sie(a)systemfile.demon.co.uk>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Idiots
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> Generally I'd agree, but in the case of the DEC VR201 I was challenged
< > It took me some 2 hrs. and I was ready to rip the case off before I fina
< > figured out that "that interesting little button on the rear" concealed
< > screw that held it all together. I think some fine art students on peyot
< > must have designed that case. It is unique I will admit.
< >
< > ciao larry
< > lwalker(a)interlog.com
While the VT100 case was easy to open the legal climate changed and easy
to open meant users (meaning idiots) should open it and hurt themselves
so they could sue. Screws like that oen in the VR200 and also others were
meant as a legal dodge as if you went through all the trouble to open that
you were delberate and if anything bad happnes it's on your head not DECs.
As some oen involved in the design process we always had to banance easy
to open with should it be openable at all. I know I was around DEC from
83->93 and worked with the corperate safety folks. You would not believe
the stories we would share...
Allison
Tony ended his long discourse on telephones with:
> In practice, you're not going to damage the exchange no matter what you do
> to the line at the subscriber end. The incoming lines are protected by an
> array of spark gaps (probably gas filled), fuses and 'heat coils'. The old
> electromechanical exchanges were certainly protected against lightening,
> contact between telephone lines and (600V-ish) power lines, etc. Mains, at
> the far end of the line, is trivial in comparison.
ISTR that at our sites (electricity supply industry) we have to install
special isolators on phone lines if the rise in local earth potential
due to an earth fault exceeds 650V. Such sites are known as "hot
sites". The implication is, anything less than 650V to ground the
exchange can cope with. Besides, I think the limiting factor is safety
of engineers working at exchanges...
Philip.
While we're on this subject, are stupid lawsuits as common in UK
and other countries as the US?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> I've often wondered about adding a BCD-DTMF chip and a pulse counter
to
make dial phones do tones for all the robots you ring up and have to
type numbers to communicate with. But where do I put # and *?
Suggestions?
Do what I do, refuse to use robot phone systems, always wait till an
operator comes on line. If a company is too cheap to pay someone to
answer the phone I certainly don't want to do business with them, it's a
clear indication of the level of service I can expect.
Jack Peacock
> While we're on this subject, are stupid lawsuits as common in UK
and other countries as the US?
There was the slander lawsuit in the UK brought by McDonalds against
some food activist pressure group. On the surface it sounded stupid,
took forever, but in the end it proved to be a wise business choice for
McDonalds. IIRC McDonalds won some small victory from it but it was a
brilliant first strike to stop any future pressure groups.
On the other hand even McDonalds loses a few. I think it was the
McDonalds in downtown Shanghai, the Chinese Govt decided they wanted the
property and booted McD out even thought McD had a lease on it. McD
tried to sue in Chinese court, which surely qualifies as a stupid
lawsuit in China.
Jack peacock
Well, I bought a replacement coin battery...it's starting up off the
SMPSU from my Packard Bell. Hmm...the screen on my Mac Portable is a
million times better...how do I get into the CMOS setup in this
thing? Since the settings are reset, I can't get to the hard drive
for any potential setup programs.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
FWIW: just to give some of you a bit of fun; no futher discussion needed
here as it's kinda off topic.
Found this in comp.sys.ibm.sys3x.misc. Don't know for sure if Mr. Welch
really gave the press rls. Posted on Thu, 16 Jul 1998:
At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the
computer industry and stated: "If GM had kept up with technology like
the computer industry has, we would all be driving twenty-five dollar
cars that got 1000 miles to the gallon.
In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release
stating (by Mr. Welch himself):
If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving
cars with the following characteristics:
1. For no reason whatsoever your car would crash twice a day.
2. Every time they repainted the lines on the road you would have
to buy a new car.
3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason,
and you would just accept this, restart and drive on.
4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn, would
cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you
would have to reinstall the engine.
5. Only one person at a time could use the car, unless you bought
"Car95" or "CarNT". But then you would have to buy more seats.
6. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun,
reliable, five times as fast, and twice as easy to drive, but would
only run on five per cent of the roads.
7. The oil, water temperature and alternator warning lights would
be replaced by a single "general car default" warning light.
8. New seats would force everyone to have the same size butt.
9. The air bag system would say "Are you sure?" before going off.
10. Occasionally for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you
out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door
handle, turned the key, and grab hold of the radio antenna.
11. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of
Rand McNally road maps (now a GM subsidiary), even though they neither
need or want them. Attempting to delete this option would immediately
cause the car's performance to diminish by 50% or more. Moreover, GM
would become a target for investigation by the Justice Department.
12. Every time GM introduced a new model car, buyers would have to
learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would
operate in the same manner as the old car.
13. You'd press the "start" button to shut off the engine.
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/
While I suppose it's technically possible to be electrocuted by anything
plugged into a wall outlet, I really have a hard time buying this story.
There's got to be more to it than that. Can you tell me in what newspaper
it appeared?
"Charles E. Fox" <foxvideo(a)wincom.net> on 07/22/98 09:47:50 AM
Please respond to classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
cc: (bcc: Bill Sheehan/Corporate/SWEC)
Subject: Re: Compaq//safety issues
Todays paper has an article about a fourteen year old Southern Ontario
boy
who electrocuted himself while using his computer "when the keyboard became
disconnected and he tried to plug it in"!!
This sounds nearly impossible and very hard on all the young people
who
are trying to conn a computer out of their parents.
If I hear any more I will pass it along.
Charlie Fox
>> $460!!!! That CAN'T right! I going to throw away my Altair and start
>> looking for Sinclairs to sell on E-pay!
> But to us british the ZX80 has the same nostalgic value as an Altair. The
> highest price I have seen a ZX80 go for here in the UK was 180 UKP but
> this example was fully boxed, the correct manuals, mint condition and
> known to work.
460 USD ? 180 UKP ?
Wooha!
And I just gave away a ZX80 for free last week (to a
fellow collector - Stefan, did you check it ? Working ?).
Althrugh it is an early ZX80 (see the glossing 'Keyboard' ?
Later modells had a darkened keymat to give a chance for
guessing the keys) I wouldn't pay anything more than
DM 80-100 (~ USD 60, UKP 30) - no way. ZX80 is sill somewhat
common. There are a lot of newer devices that are realy rare.
Shure, the ZX81 is for most people more nostalgic than
any KIM, AIM or Altair, since it was (together with the
ZX81) the first computer for a real lot of people.
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
LOL, i love that disclaimer. time to reedit my .sig file...
perhaps everyone should use it nowadays?
In a message dated 98-07-21 23:57:06 EDT, Don Maslin put forth:
<< Disclaimer:
As a resident of the '90's, I take no responsibility for anything I say or
do.
If any of my actions hurt or offend anyone, it was probably not my fault, and
the result of some childhood trauma which I've probably repressed. >>
At 10:20 PM 7/21/98 -0500, you wrote:
>For your amusement:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=21496167
>
>-- Doug
$460!!!! That CAN'T right! I going to throw away my Altair and start
looking for Sinclairs to sell on E-pay!
(Just kidding!!!!!!!!)
Go look at his other ads. He has a 1 cent paper bill that some fool
has bid $5 for!
