I wonder how many other people on this list have worked on pinball
>>machines/video games (coin ops)?
>
>Guilty! Still do!!
>
>One of my first electronics based paying jobs was with a now long gone
>outfit called "Digital Design Concepts", whos main claim to fame was a
>video game (called the "Video 5" which played five different (more or
less,
>all 'pong' styled) games.
>
>Quite radical for the time...
>
>-jim
Don't know if you are aware of it but the video arcade game
collecting hobby is about as close as it can get
to being a mirror image of the classic computer hobby.
It started at roughly the same time and has a very active
and fast growing newsgroup <rec.games.video.arcade.collecting>.
And, as I'm sure you know,
all of the innovations and developments put into the
coin-ops essentially follow the timeline of that for
computers. And that is the foundation of their collecting
interest as well. Many of them are employed by the computer
industry as chip designers, software specialists, etc.
And, eerily, their newsgroup recently devoted
a great many long threads to the resistance of many to price
increases just as is happening to computer collecting.
Interestingly, though, while game collecting and
computer collecting have so much in common - I am unaware
of anyone who is a serious participant of both. Don't
know why that is. But if you have not yet visited their
newsgroup I think you will find it entertaining.
Bob Wood
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
OK, I just had my "Big Haul" delivered (you've got to love people that want
to get rid of stuff so bad that they deliver it to you). I'll have more on
this later. At the moment, I've got a question about packs. Are "NASHUA
4443" Packs RL01 packs? Also is there a way to tell RL01 and RL02 packs
that aren't DEC packs apart?
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
but I can't
>say that I will look forward to your posts either, especially if they
are
>about latest acquisitions/sales...
>
> Megan Gentry
>
>Not a problem Megan. As I said in the first post I
anticipated exactly your reaction. I have been reading
the list for months and I realize what it is intended
for and what it means to y'all (excuse that, I am a
Southern boy). I have never had any intention to become
a regular contributor because I really am not capable
of any type of contribution that the list was intended
for. The only reason that I spewed forth with it this time
is that I was bursting to tell someone and if I told
anyone else but you guys they wouldn't even know what
the hell an Altair was.
There will be no more acqusitions to tell about. I stumbled
onto a way to get them and now it is all over with. So
unless somewhere they are building some more used Altairs
that is it for me.
Let me say one other thing in passing to all the people
who have pointed out that I have missed out on something
by never learning the fun of poking around in these computers
to see how they tick. You are right! I am sitting here with
a Proc Tech factory made copy of Star Trek on cassette.
Being a very serious video arcade game buff it is just
about killing me that I cannot see it work. I have
no earthly idea how to get my SOL to show it to me. And
I want to see it bad, bad, bad! I am extremely fortunate
enough to have both it and all the hardware to allow
me to see it. But because I never tinkered around inside
these computers I may never be able to see it play.
So I am not the enemy believe me. I truly respect all
of you folks for the abilities you have. And I want
to chime in here and fully agree with a post from yesterday
which stated that of all of the places on the Internet which
I have ever visited this one, hands down, has the most thoughtful
people of any I have ever encountered.
I hope you can keep your hobby as pure as you want it
to be. I would never want to do anything to interfere
with that.
Thanks for listening to my ramblings and, who knows,
maybe someday I will be lucky enough to actually meet
some of you at the Computer Festival. I hope so.
Regards,
Your friend and supporter.
Bob Wood
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
In a message dated 98-08-14 21:36:00 EDT, Kees put forth:
<< PCDOS 2.1 was released specifically for the PCjr. 2.1's floppy drive
access was slowed down considerably because the drive in the PCjr was
so flimsy that it would break if it was used faster. MSDOS 2.11 was
the generic version available from Microsoft, and there also were
versions 2.2 and 2.25 with specific international support added. >>
I dont understand the issue about the floppy drive "slowed down" AFAIK, its
just a regular old 360k drive. I think it may be the same drive as what's on
the 5155 machine. It probably has more to do with the lack of DMA on the pcjr
rather than anything else.
david
>> >$12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box:
>> > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570
>> >
>> >(and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy sells, what do
you
>> >think?)
>>
>> I think this whole auction reeks of bull-shit! Everything from
the
>> opening bid of $2500 to reserve of OVER $12,000 and the seller's
>> insistance of 1 day UPS delivery smells of being a FAKE!
>
>Interesting point. This auction could have been staged simply to raise
>the perceived value of the Altair 8800 just before someone dumps 25 of
>them on the market.
>
>Or someone may just be that stupid.
>
>Two theories. Take your pick.
Before this wild speculation goes any further let me
try to sets your minds somewhat at ease.
As you would expect it was my natural reflex
to offer a computer to the 2nd bidder. I have now had
several back and forth emails with him. He is, like
yourselves, an avid classic computer collector with
500 pieces including An Apple 1. He has Altairs but
not the original 8800. Hi explanation for the wide
difference in his bids on the two auctions is that
he put great value on the additional boards (the S-100
Hayes modem, a rare CPU, the video cards, etc. etc. etc.)
He is willing to pay no more for the straight computer than
his bid on Willing's auction. Now I know that most will
not agree with his assessment but that is not the point.
The point is that he is indeed a legitimate participant
I cannot, however, get into the mind of the woman who
entered the high bid. After having listed several hundred
Ebay items I can guess though. In a word - impulsiveness.
I have seen it time and again with my own auctions. In
my experience about 15% of my high bidders renig. When
I then offer the items to my 2nd bidders they will choose
not to accept about 95% of the time. This is nothing new
to online auctions (excepting that it is harder to renig
in a live auction). Auction bidding is done impulsively
and when given an opportunity to change their minds
most bidders will choose to do so.
So for whatever appeal the Altair has to her she probably
got caught up in the last minute frenzy and may have plenty
of money to be able to do so with no pain whatsoever. Or,
who knows, maybe she was buying it for someone else. There is
no way to know unless she chooses to tell us. Maybe someone has
been in contact with her and will tell us.
Of course there is always the possibility that she was a
shill. However, it is highly unlikely, given how the auction
ended.
Keep in mind that there was no offical transaction here. With
the reserve not met no one was committed to buy anything.
Much more interesting to me, than the bidders in this auction,
was the seller. What must he have been thinking to come up with such
a laughably unrealsitic reserve (and we don't know how laughable
because we don't know how high it was). I thought I had seen
just about every abberation Ebay could offer but I cannot
get into his head at all.
The bottom line is that this auction in no way contributes
to our trying to get a handle on how others now value an Altair.
Willing's outcome, however, is a more valid indicator of that.
But any auction price is only a contributing factor and should
be taken only that way.
To answer your other question, Sam, sure I would be glad to
reveal how I bought the MITS stuff. But all it would serve
to do is piss off others because it is something that every single
reader of this list could just as easily have done. Frankly,
I remained amazed for the year and a half I had it to myself,
that no one figured it out. But if I lay it out I will again
be chastised. I will be told that it is materialistic and irrelevant
because all that
matters is tinkering with the computers. Are you sure you want
to hear all that again?
Bob
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
It is likely that I am the only person on this
list who is a total "outsider". I am a collectibles
dealer. I never touched a computer keyboard until
two years ago. I will now probably be asked to leave
but before that happens I would like to share my
Altair "experiences" with you. This will be long
winded so if you are only interested in "sound-bite"
length messages hit your back button now. This little story
cannot be told in a couple of sentences.
I no longer remember how I learned of the existence
of the Altair 8800 but it was about a year and a half
ago. I learned about the history of it and it's
association with the beginning of Gates' and Allen's
business careers. I decided that the Altair's potentially could
be a big deal so I started looking for them.
Almost immediately I discovered a source. I bought eight
of them for from $100 to $300 apiece in about two months time.
At that time the price edged up to $3-500 so I said to
hell with it and stopped buying. I then put it all on the back
burner for six months.
Then, earlier this year, someone
offered to buy one from me for $800. I thought this was a sucker
price so gladly let it go. Two weeks later, that last
batch of Altairs and drives went on Ebay. The computers
sold for roughly $2K apiece. As a lark, I immediately listed a
MITS serial board and modem board on Ebay. At the time
I was so ignorant about what I had that I listed them
separately. I did not even know that together they are
a cassette interface. One brought $250 and the other $200.
I could not believe it. $450!
Like everyone on this list, I was somewhat shocked that
the computers had actually sold for $2K. When I first discovered
this list (six months ago) I posted asking for your opinions
of the value
of an Altair 8800. As always, you all were very responsive.
I vividly remember Jim Willing stating that, in his opinion,
the 8800 was worth $250.
So I concluded that the $2000 Ebay bids
must be the "real" sucker price. I offered the
buyer of my boards one of my 8800's
for $2K. Sold it.
Then a week later sold him two more for $1500 each.
I now had payed for every Altair item I had ever
bought and had a tidy profit as well. I was ecstatic.
Then, needless to say, I started to actively buy them again.
Went back to my one (and only) source and bought four more
8800's, one 8800a, two 8800b's, one turnkey b, one Attache, seven
Altair floppy drives, two MITS hard drives, controllers,
four Imsai's, three Sol 20's, every iminaginable software,
and enough docs and literature to fill a four
drawer filing cabinet. And I stumbled onto what
may be the only surviving example of a still unassembled
Altair 8800 kit. Up until last week I had been able
to have it all shipped to me but the last load was too much
to ship so I drove almost 2000 miles round trip to retrieve
it.
When I returned Friday a friend informed me that two
Altairs had been listed the day before on Ebay.
(I still do not understand the amazing coincidence
of two separate sellers listing Altair's within 35 minutes
of each other since it had been four months since the last
ones were listed).
It occurred to me that since the Altair's were about to be
hyped again that I should participate. Since I had just
come home with five Altair floppy drives, I decided that
was the logical thing to sell. The auction ends today (Friday).
My source for buying ended abruptly last week (that is
another whole story). So it is unlikely that I will be able
to buy any
more. I now think of the six months I passed on them because
I would have had to pay $400. If I had kept buying during that
time I would have a great many more of them now.
But I feel very fortunate to have the ones I do.
Why am I telling you all of this? It is because I have
been engaged in buying and selling collectibles for
25 years. I was in on the beginnings of many other
of these kinds of phenomena (jukeboxes, antique radio,
Coca-Cola, the list is long). But I have never had so
much fun as I have had with this. There is no doubt that
my involvement with it is totally different from that
of everyone else on this list. And I am certain that
(based on much of what I have read here) that many
will find it deplorable that someone like me is a
subscriber.
But the personal computer is now as important as the electric
lamp was 100 years ago. And, over time, the first examples
will be regarded with the same reverance as Edison's first
light bulbs. I feel lucky to be one of the people witnessing
the birth of that.
Bob Wood
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Well I still have alot to sort out but here is a short list of finds for
this week:
1) Beckman model 999 IC tester have not powered it up yet
2) Two Radius MacII Page Display cards
3) About 30+ different books, spec sheets, and manual
4) 28 game cartridges for the Vic20
5) 4 2600 game cartridges
6) 2 C64 cartridges
7) Various Apple II cards
8) A clone Numeric keypad for the Apple II
9) 2 Vic20 power supplies not tested
10) 1 Plus/4 power supply not tested
11) HES Mon mini assember for use with Vic20 in box with manual
12) Cardram 16k memory expansion cartridge for thr Vic20
13) Radio Shack and other brand computer cassette tapes - new
That's all I can list for now as I still have a van loaded with boxes and
about 6 boxes of items to sort in the garage. I will update later with
anything of importance. Keep Computing!! John
On Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:56:27 +0200 (CEST), colan said:
cl>Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not
cl>been able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came
cl>with a PCjr?
PCDOS 2.1 was released specifically for the PCjr. 2.1's floppy drive
access was slowed down considerably because the drive in the PCjr was
so flimsy that it would break if it was used faster. MSDOS 2.11 was
the generic version available from Microsoft, and there also were
versions 2.2 and 2.25 with specific international support added.
"In march 1984, a year after the PC-XT introduction, IBM released DOS
version 2.1 to excise these software errors [that were in verson 2.0]
and to handle a hardware error it produced, called the PCjr."
Try to find "DOS Power Tools" by Paul Somerson, ISBN 0-553-34526-5,
Bantam computer books, from which is the above quote. It has very
detailed explanations of the workings of DOS, a great many tips and
tricks, a disk with 200 PC Magazine machine code utilities, and a
long chapter on the development of DOS, from 1.0 to 3.3, which was
the latest version when the book was printed.
Kees
--
Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - pb0aia at amsat dot org
Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - http://vaxarchive.ml.org
Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered
>Interesting point. This auction could have been staged simply to raise
>the perceived value of the Altair 8800 just before someone dumps 25 of
>them on the market.
>
>Or someone may just be that stupid.
>
>Two theories. Take your pick.
What's the old saying?
"Never attribute to malice what should be attributed to stupidity?"
(Or something like that)
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
At 10:53 AM 8/14/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not been
>able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came with a PCjr?
>
>
>colan
My NEC APC uses MSDOS 2.11, on an 8" floppy.
Regards
Charlie Fox
>
>
>
>
Why don't we do everyone a real favor and just drop this whole thing. I'm
getting a 7.1GB drive next week, anyway.
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
----------
> From: R. Stricklin (kjaeros) <red(a)bears.org>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: FW: Dos v2.11 apology
> Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 11:10 PM
>
> On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote:
>
> > It's NOT that Windows won't work, I can't FIT anything on the HD. It's
> > ONLY 100MB, and Windows takes up 90-some, and the rest by MS-Mail, and
IE
> > 3.02. Leaving a total of about 5 MEG.
>
> Ah, you just want to complain. Imagine running Windows 95 on such a small
> disk and expecting to have room for anything larger than three gnats and
a
> toenail clipping...
>
> > PS>> just forget about your hat.
>
> PS>> try Windows 3.11
>
> "here's a nickel, kid, buy yourself a real OS"
> r.
>
>
This has been roughly my experience. I have one poor thing that takes about
5 minutes, hey, it is after all, 20 years old. :) My light never goes out
that I remember though, but it does blink in faster increments up to the
point it stays steady. I have two apple ///'s with profiles that are
currently operational, allthough one comes up much faster than the other. I
think it waits for the drive to "come up to speed"
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: R. Stricklin (kjaeros) <red(a)bears.org>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Saturday, August 15, 1998 6:49 AM
Subject: RE: Apple III & Profile
>On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Doug Spence wrote:
>
>> IIRC, it was more like 140 seconds. :/ That's for cold start, when it
>> goes into blinking mode after a command is issued to it, I think the
>> blinking time is shorter.
>
>On powering up the ProFile disk:
>
>"The red ready light on the ProFile's front panel will come on for about 2
>seconds, go off for about 20 seconds, and then start to flash for about 40
>seconds while the drive runs internal tests. When the tests are
>successfully completed, the light will remain on continuously without
>flashing. Under some conditions the ProFile may take up to 3 minutes to
>complete the startup sequence."
>
>ok
>r.
>>> Hmm, well I don't know about Prodos or the 'catalyst' proggy that people
>>>are
>>> mentioning, I know I managed to get directory listings from my drives
>>>without
>>> either, although it *may* have been using a diagnostics disk that came
>>>with
>>> the drive.
>>
>>That's what I thought. I don't have Prodos or catalyst, but the SOS
>>utilities disk with the drivers and setup programs seems to indicate that
>>I should be able to access the drive without anything fancy.
hmm, I should hopefully be going up to my folk's place in two or three
weeks time - if I do and this is still a problem then I'll try to get
access to my /// and see what's what (I can't remember how far back in
the pile it is though :)
>> The READY light doesn't go out, it just stops blinking. It stays *on*. I
>> hope I didn't imply otherwise in my original post, else that could be a
>> source for confusion.
>> It makes sense to me that the READY light would stay on when the drive is
>> ready.
that sounds right to me, too :) But at least it's changing state - I
guess I'd expect it to carry on blinking if there was a fault. (Out of
interest, how long was it blinking for? Seem to remember it used to be
somewhere around 30-40 seconds on my drives)
>
>> I played with it again, and I CAN get it to run from slot 3. But I have
>> to use the Profile controller board that was originally in slot 4, into
>> slot 3. Only one of the controller cards gets a response from the drive,
>> so I guess one is dead.
Interesting. My problem was probably that more than one card couldn't be
configured at once then (maybe I should get hold of a copy of prodos
>from somewhere and that'll sort things out? I can't imagine the firm
that originally used this machine swapping drives around all the time!)
>
>> Unless the cabling is wrong. :) I'm using a straight-through 25-pin
>> cable, and it's 6 feet long. Maybe the Profile doesn't like cables longer
>> than a foot in length or something? Or maybe it's supposed to have
>> different wiring?
well, I remember the cable didn't have any twists in it - ie. it was
either a full crossover or straight-through. One of my cables is
original, and it's no more than a foot long. Chances are these things
would suffer from interference - try a shorter cable and see if it
helps.
>
>> Thanks Jules, you're the only one not to try to involve Prodos so far. ;)
ooh, give me time... :)
really must get back into using the /// and finding out what there is
available for it - everyone seems to hate the machine, but it seems an
interesting beast to say the least!! (Last time I used it though it made
me realise how used I was to MS-DOS, SOS being the nightmare that it
is...)
cheers
Jules
>
Over 90% of the external modems I have dealt with were 9vdc, 500ma, but
there is always an exception, and in this case, that is probably the case.
At 04:38 PM 8/14/98 -0700, Kevin McQuiggin wrote:
>You need an AC adapter. Anyone know the correct voltage for this model of
>modem??
>
>Kevin
>
>>
>> I just got a 2400 external modem without a power cord the modem is a
>> packard bell PB2400PLUS anyone know what kind of power cord it takes(dose't
>> say anything in the manual about specs on the power cord) the jack that the
>> power cord goes into looks like a hole with a stem in the middle of it
>> looks like the size of a mini stereo jack
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD
>mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca
>
-
- john higginbotham ____________________________
- webmaster www.pntprinting.com -
- limbo limbo.netpath.net -
Hello everybody.
I was wondering if anyone out there had an old Mac Portable (the Mac
laptop) that they'd want to sell. I really don't want to pay all that much
for it, and I don't need anything all that fast (I don't know all that much
about Macs), but it needs to run at least System 6.0.5. The main reason
that I'm looking for one, is that my school uses mainly Macs (the only PC's
that they have are a few XT's that you need to turn off the lights to read
the monitors), and I don't have a Mac. Whenever I'm working on a project,
I'm confined to the 40 minutes of classtime to get it done. I'm not
looking for a full-sized Mac, because (1) I don't have the room, and (2), I
sort of need the portability, because It's not very often that I'm at home
before 8:30 or 9:00 PM, and at that time I don't really feel like working
on stuff for school.
All I'm really asking is that it works, and can run System 6.0.5 (that's
what my school uses).
As always,
ThAnX in advance,
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
Folks,
This message might be borderline annoying to some, in which case I
humbly apologize, but I really wanted to give it a bit wider
distribution than its original list. I'd be very sad if they didn't
sell and had to be trashed; not quite like "Save the whales!"
Sales pitch follows, which you can happily ignore! Deleting is quite OK!
This is an unusual opportunity to obtain an historic machine of at least
some interest. These, as the message says, need cleaning up, but
apparently most are in good shape internally.
I have no connection with the seller, but believe him to be reputable;
he made a similar offer several months back, and there have been no
complaints at all about him on the List.
(Cliff, you can ignore all of what follows; if I got anything wrong,
feel free to holler, of course! (Cliff has an STW in tip-top
condition.))
The Friden STW was the standard desktop calculator of choice, widely
used, for scientists and engineers for several decades. It was the
successor to the ST, which was probably first sold in the early 1930s.
(Yes, the Depression! Friden started a successful company in Terrible
Times. It took an acquisition by Singer to destroy it.)
If you have any interest in historic calculators, this is an excellent
and very representative example. These machines had a different
architecture from today's electronic calculators, which I won't try to
explain (the message is too long, already!).
It's a motor-driven rotary machine with no printer, and a carriage. Its
capacity was usually 10x10x20, which is to say that it could multiply
two 10-digit numbers and display a 20-digit product. The Friden STWs
were very reliable and trustworthy when properly cared for.
It does all four operations of arithmetic automatically; also can do
d=a+(b*c) and d=a-(b*c). (These can be chained, so that the new a is the
old d, and new b and c are arbitrary, although either or both b and/or c
can be the same as the previous.) (Super-slow DSP, anyone?!)
Iirc, you can also display the sum or difference of two or more
quotients. It's practical to compute square roots on it by at least two
methods, I'm fairly sure. One uses a printed lookup table (hard to
find); the other is a clever semi-mindless algorithm called the "fives
method".
There are severe limitations on automatic transfers of numbers within
the machine; essentially, almost none. The numbers in the keyboards and
the results dials can be kept for the next calculation, however.
It has 10 columns of keys, 9 keys + a clear key in each column. You
could consider this a parallel-entry keyboard. (It was called a "full
keyboard.") The STW also has the unique, distinctive little 10-key
serial-entry multiplier section.
There are such features as selectively disabling the auto. clearing of
the main keyboard, also of the accumulator and/or the cycle counter
dials. Little knobs allow you to rotate the accumulator dials to preset
them (such as for rounding numbers). Many clever applications were
worked out based on accessibility of the individual parts of the
machine, so to speak.
Decimal points are not calculated by the mechanism at all, but there are
markers to keep things simple.
Speed is 600 cycles per minute.
One limitation is that subtracting one from the LSD of all zeros does
not give a string of 20 nines; you get about 14, iirc, on a standard
machine. "Full carryover" was an option. I think there is a warning bell
to signify an accumulator "sign change".
Just about sure that a stock Belden power cord will fit, but not sure
Belden still sells that particular item. (Sorry; don't have a Belden
catalog any more.) (It has three round pins, male on the calc, iirc, and
the center pin is offset and probably longer. It was a standard until
the rectangular-pin IEC connector so well known in computers supplanted
it.)
Hmmm... budding free-lance ad copywriter? (Heaven save us!)
No doubt, some work will be needed; it would be much wiser to remove the
covers and try to cycle the machine by hand to see that it doesn't jam.
The main driveshaft has a female threaded hole in the end for a
handcrank that you could make. If the machine jams under power, there is
a fiber gear (so I'm told by an experienced Friden tech.) that might
become damaged; he says it's a Major Pain to replace if you can get the
part, and parts are hard to come by! There is a crude safety clutch
(makes a terrible racket!), but it may not disengage before the fiber
gear strips.
Again, my apologies for the intrusion.
|* Nicholas Bodley *|* Electronic Technician {*} Autodidact & Polymath
|* Waltham, Mass. *|* -----------------------------------------------
|* nbodley(a)tiac.net *|* The personal computer industry will have become
|* Amateur musician *|* mature when crashes become unacceptable.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 08:19:35 -0400
From: Julian Burke <julianb(a)ESPER.COM>
To: CALCLIST-L(a)TECHUNIX.TECHNION.AC.IL
Subject: Friden STW's for sale
Hello All, I'm not in this for profit but want to see these units go to
the right hands for collecting. I have a huge quantity of Friden STW's
for sale @ $30 each. These are as-is complete, dirty from long term
storage, might be missing a button or two and NO power cords. $30 +
shipping and packing from Knoxville, Tennessee. They will weigh 44
pounds each packed, so consult with UPS for shipping prices from ZIP
code 37909. If interested, I have "worse" (needing more cleanup or for
parts) for less and better units for more. Most people who have
purchased from me before say the insides look great and after a good
"typewriter bath", they survived very well. Hurry while selection is
good. I have hundreds of calcs for possible trade (cash also) and am
looking for a WANG 360SE at this time. (Suitcase with 4 slave calcs
>from the mid 70's) Thanks, Julian Burke
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--
Warbaby
The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire.
http://www.warbaby.com
The MonkeyPool
WebSite Content Development
http://www.monkeypool.com
Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies.
At 02:34 PM 8/13/98 -0500, you wrote:
>$12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570
>
>(and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy sells, what do you
>think?)
I think this whole auction reeks of bull-shit! Everything from the
opening bid of $2500 to reserve of OVER $12,000 and the seller's
insistance of 1 day UPS delivery smells of being a FAKE!
Joe
I'll be doing a rescue early next week from a local company that's
surplusing out some old PDP-11's. There's more than I can use, so I will
happily parcel out what I don't need.
There will be at least one 11/04, possibly one or more 11/23's, and some
DSD-880 boxes. I'll post a list to the group once I get done collecting and
sorting.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
Well.....
----------
> From: Daniel A. Seagraves <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: FW: Dos v2.11 apology
> Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 2:43 AM
>
> [Uses MSmail?]
>
> I'd rather just get a telnet client and talk straight to the SMTP
interface
> than use Outlook.
> In fact, I normally do.
>
> HELO myhostname
> MAIL FROM: me
> RCPT TO: you
> DATA
> xyzzy
> .
> QUIT
>
> -------
> I'm impressed but try again! I have asolutely no problems in all 4
> corner of any worlds even on 386sx 25 bandaid notebook I have.
> (sloooowwwwly). What is your toshiba laptop?
>
Well, it's a VERY crappy 100MHz Pentium w/ 8 meg of RAM. The HD has blown
4 times already. Half the time the CD-ROM and floppy don't work, and
Resume never worked. The screen shattered about 3 months ago (while I was
using it). The modem may be part of the problem. It's a IBM 14.4 made for
Win 3.1 and OS/2, using software for a totally different modem, because
it's the only driver that works.
> No excess frill programs, extras to foul up your installation
> attempts?
>
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
The hard drive or the computer? If you're talking about the HD, than I
know what you mean. If you mean the computer, just go to the elementary
school that I used to go to -- They had 30 of 'em. The one that I have now
(and my other two 1000's) were given to me by my high school -free...
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
----------
> From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Philips XT with 768K
> Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 1:22 AM
>
> > I also have a neat XT. It's not a Phillips, but a Tandy 1000. It has
768K
> > RAM, and a 12MHz 286 processor. Only, I still have the problem of not
> > being able to access the upper memory. Being a Tandy, it's even harder
to
> > find a driver. Another setback is it's HD. It's a 20MB Western
digital -
> > and slow as a turtle. Does anyone, by any chance, have a spare
> > XT-compatible IDE HD without a stepper motor driving the heads??
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> That may be very hard to find!
> - don
>
Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> wrote:
> An an amateur quasi-historian, I think the misperception about the
> Altair's significance is a shame. There are computers that were produced
> in similar numbers that are much more interesting, and even more fun to
> play with.
Here's what is significant about MITS and the Altair 8800:
It arrived on the scene with a price that firmly fixed in lots of
folks' heads the idea that "I can own a computer." And it was
obviously a useful computer that could be expanded to do real work
just like the real computer in the fishbowl at the office, not
something that could only be appreciated through the lights and
switches on its front panel.
And MITS' hardware was flaky enough that other folks felt encouraged
to build stuff for its bus, and even build other systems using its
bus. That made the Altair bus a de facto standard of its day,
and one that stuck around for the next few days too.
> The Altair and the Apple 1 both started at about the same time, but the
> Apple went on to have a much greater impact on "personal" interactive
> computing in the form of the Apple ][. IBM's PC was a response to the
> Apple ][, and that set the stage for the way things have been ever since.
I'd venture to say that Altair buyers saw the Altair as having the
potential to be this sort of "interactive" machine too. The base
configuration wasn't, but it was clear that you could buy more memory,
a current-loop interface, a Teletype, and run BASIC. And that was the
goal a lot of folks had then. That put you in the big leagues with
the minis that you might be using at work or in school, and put the
user in control of the computer.
That said, I think that if MITS hadn't done it with the Altair,
someone else would have done it soon enough.
-Frank McConnell
>
>I think you're the third person this year I know of that has found the
>sole surviving Altair kit :-)
I think what may have happened, Doug, is that over the
course of the year I have mentioned it in passing to
some of the people who read this list. I am not known
to you folks so I am guessing that the same unassembled
kit was brought to your attention by others. If that is
not the case and other kits have been found I would sincerely
like to hear from
those who may be in possession of them. I have some unanswered
questions about the example I found and would like to
compare it to any others.
>
>But the Altair wasn't the first personal computer, so maybe the Ford
>Model-T would be a better analogy. The Altair's place in history is
>really about Microsoft and the early hobbiest movement, not about
>computers in general. Affordable desktop computers have been around
since
>the 60's (and even the late 50's if you include analog machines like
the
>EC-1 at $199).
I did not
mean to suggest that the Altair was the 1st PC or even the
1st micro. However, the Altair is perceived at this time
to be "the start of it all" and it is the one that is available in
enough numbers to become a collectible. The Mark 8 and Scelbi,
for example, suffer from extreme rarity. They are now virtually
non existent. So will never attract the widespread interest of
the Altair.
numbers
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I'm just forwarding this mail I received.
Please respond directly to them.
>We have a Tandy 1000EX computer that was given to us
>about four years ago and was a great word processor,
>game player, etc. at the time. Since then we have
>upgraded slightly to a Pentium, 64 M of RAM, etc.
>We have no more need for the Tandy, and would like to
>know if there is any one that has a hankering for relics,
>like your museum or just a personal collector. We have
>the printer, complete computer with monitor, and user's
>manuals. We also have some software for it.
> We would certainly appreciate any help you may be able
>to give us in selling the Tandy. We live in El Paso, TX,
>and would respond to any inquiries about it. Thank you.
>James and Michelle Herrick
>jandmherrick(a)prodigy.net
=========================================
Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com
Senior Software Engineer
Press Start Inc.
Sunnyvale,CA
Curator
Museum of Personal Computing Machinery
http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum
=========================================
I have bwbasic 2.20, but it leaks memory horribly. This is
Digital UNIX, so I can't use Chipmunk. I found another BASIC for Unixes,
but it only works on m68000 Unixes, PDP-11s, Pyramids, and VAXen.
IS there any other decent BASIC interpreters out there for UNIXes?
-------
Okay, everyone with a spare IMSAI, let's all get together and have a few
"auctions" on e-bay. How about a reserve of $50K, starting bid at $15K,
$1K increments. That's just for a box, cards are extra.
Jack Peacock
Has anyone confirmed with Laura Lemay that she actually paid
or intends to pay $12,000 for an Altair, or could this be a hoax
perpetrated on her? I sent an e-mail asking for a confirmation,
and have heard nothing... This all comes back to my inherent
skepticism about online auctions as a useful method of determining
"street price." Where's a mechanism for confirmation of the
selling price? How can we detect shills?
- John
< For anyone else (Allison??) who is interested in RT-11
Been running RT-11 in various flavors since '78.
< One day I even booted a TU-58 from 1978 with
< a tape cartridge holding files from a 1978 version
I still have two systems with the TU58 and real PDP-11 hardware.
one is a PDT-11/130 and the other a BA11va shoebox with tu58.
< TU-58, it was still quite a thrill to be able to boot
< the 20 year old TU-58 with 20 year old software.
and a 20 year old system!
Allison
>pretty much a non-starter. The Altair was an improvement, but it was a
>pretty much a non-starter that fizzled after about 10,000 units. The
it that day 10,000 was a lot of systems!
< >Altair was the grandfather of the S-100 bus and CP/M, both of which
< >fizzled and left only a minor mark on MS-DOS, which didn't fizzle.
S100 would be dominent through the mid 80s. S100 system were being built
with 80386s and ran faster than the PCs with same.
I have a Compupro 8086/8088 10mhz that was faster than any IBM PC
hardware in 1982.
CP/M left a major mark on MS-dos being the source point!
Also the idea of a BIOS is a CP/M concept.
< >survivor. So, if somebody were really looking at collecting Altairs as
< >machine that "started it all", I think they have been misled and would
< >better off collecting the IBM PC, early Apples, early HP desktops, the
< >PDP-8, and all of the PDP-1's they can find :-)
To many slighly older PDP-8 and HPs were the early for runners for the
small size and proximate affordability.
< money, the prices lept ahead - but only in the brands which the collecto
< recognised. The Altair is recognised as significant, is relativly
< uncommon, and every article on computer history sings it's praises. You
< could almost guarentee that the prices would go up.
It's significance was that it was real and well exposed by Popular
Electronics. The Mark-8 was less real in that it wasn't available as a
complete kit or well presented. There are predecessor machines to both.
If we want the first Microcomputer why not the intel MCS-8? You could buy
one complete before either Mark-8 or Altair by many years.
As to extoling the virtues, altair was in teh right place at the right
time. Technically it was a DOG. The IMSAI was a vastly superior machine.
Allison
Geez, I'll bet our own Jim Willing is pretty disappointed that his only sold
for $4213.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24405966
What the heck is with that? Two Altairs auctioned simultaneously, with a 3x
price differential.
Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them
(and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either).
Kai
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 12:34 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Altair prices
$12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570
(and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy sells, what do you
think?)
That's a 600% increase from the last batch, and even beats the last Apple
1 sale I know of. I'll bet that the bidders get solicitations for about
100 Altairs in the next few days.
-- Doug
I spent part of the morning troubleshooting my BA123, turns out that I
didn't have a blown powersupply <whew>, instead I had managed to short the
power plug that goes to the TK-50, got that fixed, and it powers up just
fine. So I then pulled out the MicroVAX II CPU, memory, and some other
boards, and turned it into a PDP-11/23 :^)
However, I'm finding myself fighting the path that 'snakes' through the
backplane. Would someone be kind enough to explain it to me? I wish DEC
had done like SMS did and print it on the case! It's real easy to add and
remove Q-Bus cards from my SMS-1000's. I'm interested in both the BA23 and
BA123 backplanes.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
< Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not been
< able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came with a PCjr
I've seen it on PC xts, DEC VAXmates and S100 8086 boxen.
I still have disks with the original distribution markings (long since
reformatted).
Allison
Being the custodian of an Altair, an IMSAI system, a clutch of
NorthStars, etc., etc.... I am of the opinion that any activity
which tends to *preserve* the items of our interest is intrinsically
a Good Thing.
I am a user and a collector of old systems, and I empathasize
strongly with the "Collect to Use" folks on this list. BUT: having
spent many years in the electronic surplus business, I also know that
side of things. Bob is making a good living in collectible computers
just now... 16 hrs a day 7 days a week (my kind of hours!!).... he
has discovered and turned over many classic systems... which would
be *where* today if not for his efforts??
I understand the frustration when dilletantes invade and a
collectible 'fad' develops... it does, unfortunately, prevent some
of us from having the hardware we want. I wish that wasn't so, but
it *is* the free market.
There are, however, many aspects of this hobby... and there are
some who collect to use, some who 'warehouse', some who collect to
trade.
To me, it all means that fewer Altairs will be lost forever....
My $.02, anyway.
Cheers
John
PS: My Altair came from a big rack of 70's-era aerospace test
systems... I first saw it in one of the buildings of the surplus
company I worked for from 78 - 82. At that time, it was just one of
those wierd old S-100 machines... and I couldn't afford the IMSAI I
wanted... I ended up with a Cromemco Z2H. It was not until I
joined this list that I remembered about the Altair.. so I went
back to the old place, got the keys to the room.. and there it was,
dusty and forgotten. I paid my ex-boss $50 for it, and the rescue
was done. No, there aren't any more... trust me, I *looked* ;}
J
OK... that's the -last- time I try to write something coherent when it's
the night after a 90-degree day, near midnight, with a temperature still in
the high 70's.
Bob, I must apologize to both you and the list. You caught the brunt of
one of my foulest moods to date. It's all to easy to forget that if the
seller and buyer are both happy with the price, fine. A good deal was struck.
However it's done, keeping vintage machines out of the hands of scrappers
is always a worthy goal. I may not always agree about pricing, but that's me.
I'll see a bunch of you at VCF 2.0. ;-)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
At 04:12 AM 8/14/98 -0400, Doug Spence wrote:
>Yes, it is odd that these models have no serial port. I remember bringing
>this up before about my 1000EX and being told I must've somehow missed
>seeing the port. :)
You mean I'm not crazy for not seeing this "invisible port" everyone was
talking about? :)
BTW, I never did return to the flea market to retreive that 1000 HX. It was
raining, I had the baby with me, it was bad karma all around. Maybe next
year...
-
- john higginbotham ____________________________
- webmaster www.pntprinting.com -
- limbo limbo.netpath.net -
This is good. If I'm lucky and things keep going like they are, my Apple
collection, which at original list prices is worth around $60k, should soon be
worth twice that. And, my PS/2 Model 80, which originally listed for $10k, will
bring that price again.
All we can hope for is that this craze will go the way of collectible sports cars --
after a short period of total insanity in which people were willing to pay $90k
OVER LIST PRICE just to get on a waiting list for an Acura NSX or a Viper, the
bottom fell out and nobody wanted to buy them from the morons who paid
double price for 'em.
I just hope that Jag XKE's come down to reality sometime again so I can own
one. And, I'd actually drive the damn thing instead of putting it up on blocks
under a cover in a locked, climate-controlled garage...........
Paul Braun
NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you.
nerdware(a)laidbak.com
www.laidbak.com/nerdware
< 1. What is the difference between a MicroVAX, VaxStation, and a
< VaxServer?
Everything or nothing depending on model. generally the
vaxserver/microvax have no or minimal video. Vaxstations are the higher
end video console.
< 2. How desirable are these 3100-30's? That is, is there software
< available, or are there any undesirable traits-- e.g. hard
< to upgrade, can only hold xx amout of RAM, etc?
Popular. the rest I cant answer as they are as unPC as they come. the
disks are SCSI and ram is simms(maybe oddball though).
Generally VMS runs in 4mb but 8mb or more is desireable, with 12mb it
sings and 16mb is the max.
< 3. What kind of display does this use? CRT/Keyboard, or terminal?
Varies from a serial terminal to high end color graphics.
<4. How do I tell the disk size, memory size, etc?
Test 50, show device, show mem at the >>> prompt.
< 5. What would be a 'reasonable' price (just a ballpark figure,
< I don't wanna spend $500 on a box that could be had elsewhere
< for $50).
NOT $500! free to 150(loaded). The monitors are worth more than the
systems in some cases.
I'll be selling a few Vaxserver3100 M10es 12meg ram and RZ24l Disk(245mb)
for $60 at MIT FLEA with VMS 5.5 (nolicense but useable for single user
and the DECUS license). This model has no video and uses a regular
terminal (I'm selling VT320s for those that may need).
< 6. Anthing else I should know before committing time/money?
depends on what you know of VAXen and the operating systems that run on
them. (VMS, Ultrix (some not all models), NetBSD netboot, hopefully
scsi support soon).
Allison
I think I can wait ten years for this one, maybe even less if it hits the
market like I think it will. ;)
At 09:20 PM 8/13/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote:
>Fascinating; it's a 486 machine that has absolutely nothing to do with a
>C64. Why would anybody in their right mind try to build that association
>for their product?
-
- john higginbotham ____________________________
- webmaster www.pntprinting.com -
- limbo limbo.netpath.net -
I agree totally. it's starting to happen around here also. thankfully, ive got
enough stuff already, but am always looking for more. several weeks ago,
someone posted to the list about a coleco adam for sale in nc. i emailed the
person who said ~10 people had bidded on it and she was taking the highest
offer. i was rather surprised as i thought i'd be able to get it for $10 or so
since no one else would be interested in it. I think that the well known
"rare" computers like lisae, altairs, and so forth will inflate in price
first, and then lessor known computers will not for a time, which means stock
up now while prices are still cheap.
In a message dated 98-08-13 19:35:05 EDT, Sam Ismail put forth:
<< We spoke on this topic last year, and I and a couple others prognosticated
that the then somehwat tame trend towards escalating prices for older
computers would reach the levels we are seeing today. It was just a
matter of how fast, and it basically came upon us as fast as I expected it
would. That's why I've been busy loading my garage up with stuff. I knew
well enough to get the goods while the getting's good. Once I've got some
spare time, I can sit back and enjoy tinkering with my (cheaply
accumulated) collection while the newly-interested collectors are
scratching and clawing for that latest "RARE TimexSinclair 1000!!!" on
eBay. >>
Oh, well, thinks like that do happen, and there's not much you can do about
it. I use MS-MAIL, and a lot of times, I don't even GET some of the
messages :-( I hate it, but it's all my computer will run. It seems like
every reader has it's problems.
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
----------
> From: cdrmool(a)interlog.com
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: FW: Dos v2.11 apology
> Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 5:03 AM
>
>
> Sorry for the empty message back a bit. I understand some people were
> annoyed. Let me explain for those who don't use Pine as a mail reader.
> The cancel command ctrl-c and cancel ctrl-x are easy to mix up. Its
about
> as annoying as when using Telix and wanting to shell out (alt-j) and
> accidentally hang up (alt-h). Yes, you are prompted to make sure you want
to
> send after ctrl-x but if your not expecting it, simply expecting to
> cancel, hitting the return is done before the prompt is even seen. Also,
> being a reasonably fast typist leads to mistakes of overconfidence in
what
> has been typed. Remappimg the keyboard would be the obvious answer but
> after once doing so I caused new problems, so I don't bother.
> I promise it will never happen again.
>
> Colan
>
At 03:04 PM 8/13/98 -0500, you wrote:
> Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them
> (and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either).
Well, if I had an Altair, I think I'd probably put it up for auction -- I
desparately need a new roof, and I can think of a lot of more important
reasons to sell something I wouldn't normally think of selling. Can't
fault him, but I can be envious!
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
At 04:37 PM 8/13/98 -0700, you wrote:
>On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, the thread continued:
>
>> >Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them
>> >(and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either).
>>
>> Ah... but you make an incorrect assumption... I still have all of my
>> Altairs.
>>
>> (dontcha just love a good mystery?)
>
>Aha! So what was your commission? ;)
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
Better than I expected since it cleared the reserve (by a fair bit)... It
should pay for my trip down to VCF II. B^}
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
At 01:21 PM 8/13/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> I can't put my finger on exactly why, but I find myself extremely
>> depressed by this. Does anyone know (personally) the fellow who put in
>> the high bid? Will the Altair be something of inherent value to him,
>> or is it simply an investment?
>
>I haven't looked at the URL but I'm sure I don't know anyone involved.
>
>It IS depressing, isn't it? I've been thinking about this aspect of computer
>collecting for a while. Someone on alt.folklore.computers said that he had
>verified the authenticity of an Apple I system (complete with original cover
>letter receipt signed by Steve Jobs, etc.) just before it was shipped across
>the country to a new buyer.
I'll tell you why it's depressing. We had such a good thing going-- the
whole
world was (is) dominated by the PeeCee, nobody but us *real* hobbyists cared
about the interesting "old" stuff. It was a *real* hobby-- anyone with a
*couple* (meaning two) of dollars could get into the act.
ALl you needed to have some truly interesting stuff was a voltmeter, a
terminal,
and just a little luck.
Well, kiddies, the party's over. "Investment Grade" antique technology is
here to stay, it seems. Well I'll tell you what, guys. They can *have* it.
I'll have nothing more to do with "Investment Grade" computers. One
experience
was enough to show me the level of perversion that can be attained with this
mindset.
>As I drooled over this, I realized that it's an extremely desirable thing to
>have (and this one in particular sounded rare) but the economics are just too
>warped. There are only a handful of these machines, right? And they just
>change hands and the prices go up. Also, it may be desirable to have, but
not
>to USE. The RAM is expandable to almost 64K (though I've never heard of this
>being done) but there's only one slot and the only card built for it was a
>cassette interface. The display is slow because it uses a shift register.
Yeah, it wasn't that great of a machine, even in it's own time (although, of
course, quite historic). But such was the lot of the hobbyist at the time.
>I'm just too practical, I guess. I believe in collecting things to use them/
>have fun with them, and the rarity of the Apple I is at odds with this goal.
>I too have to wonder at the motives of the buyer of this Altair.
It's all a matter of goals and priorities. There are goals that will
produce a
productive outcome if reached, and there are some that will produce a bad
outcome.
This is a good hobby, because even schoolkids withoout alot of money can
enjoy
the 'rush' of putting an old system together and running it (something *I*
couldn't
do when I was a kid).
But when it becomes a hobby for the rich, upper classes-- as many of the
'traditional'
hobbies have become-- then something will be irrevocably lost. Hopefully, we
are still a decade or so away from the complete commercialization of our
hobby.
I can't bear the though of the classic computer going the way of the
baseball card,
and the comic book . . .
>There IS the possibility that this is an elaborate "sour grapes" argument,
>given that I have neither an Apple I nor an Altair. :)
And what I'm saying is that you don't need them to enjoy the hobby. In
fact, I'm
convinced now that having *anything* that's considered 'Investment Grade'
would
*preclude* you from experiencing the enjoyment factor. Our Pre-PC heritage
is so
vast and diverse, there literally must be something (else) out there for
everyobody.
Jeff
*FOR SALE*
Slightly used SOAPBOX.
Used only once to annoy
computer geeks online.
> My hat stays frontwards. Internet Exploiter 3.2 and Mess-Mail, or
> Internet Exploder 4.0 with Overlook Expired, either take up so much
> room that I won't take the blame when something doesn't work --
> especially since you don't even have room for swap space. (Don't
> try to tell me that 80Mb of RAM stops Windows from swapping -- I
> thought that from the the original "specifications". NOT!)
It's NOT that Windows won't work, I can't FIT anything on the HD. It's
ONLY 100MB, and Windows takes up 90-some, and the rest by MS-Mail, and IE
3.02. Leaving a total of about 5 MEG.
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
PS>> just forget about your hat.
Guys:
I realize that this question has probly been raised before,
but I'll ask, as I cannot seem to find the answer. I have a
lead on a MicroVAX 3100-30, that I can get for what I *think*
is a pretty reasonable price. But before I dive into this,
I need to know:
1. What is the difference between a MicroVAX, VaxStation, and a
VaxServer?
2. How desirable are these 3100-30's? That is, is there software
available, or are there any undesirable traits-- e.g. hard
to upgrade, can only hold xx amout of RAM, etc?
3. What kind of display does this use? CRT/Keyboard, or terminal?
4. How do I tell the disk size, memory size, etc?
5. What would be a 'reasonable' price (just a ballpark figure,
I don't wanna spend $500 on a box that could be had elsewhere
for $50).
6. Anthing else I should know before committing time/money?
Jeff
| -----Original Message-----
| From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com]
| Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 2:17 PM
| To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
| Subject: Re: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices)
|
| A babe with an Altair. I'm in love :-)
|
| -- Doug
You obviously didn't read her FAQ :)
Kai
Are you single?
-In the sense that I'm not married, yes. But I am taken. See Eric's home
page.
Will you go out with me?
-No.
Will you send me dirty email?
-No.
Will you post nude pictures of yourself?
-No.
Do you find horny geek questions like this really annoying?
-How could you guess?
