| -----Original Message-----
| From: Larry Anderson [mailto:foxnhare@goldrush.com]
| Sent: Monday, August 17, 1998 6:54 PM
| To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
| Subject: Re: C64 for $800
|
| just try
| to find docs for a PET MTU graphics board (like I am), I have a collection
of
| a lifetime.
Hmm, I'm pretty sure I have docs for that. What was the MTU again? I have
like ridiculously extensive PET docs including the service manuals and
service update notices, service test tapes & disks, etc.
Heck, come to think of it, I have a PET high res graphics board of some kind
in a box someplace. Is that what this thing is?
Kai
On Aug 18, 7:57, Zane H. Healy wrote:
> Subject: RSX-11M v4.1
> OK, last night I tried copying the damaged RL02's that contain what is
> supposed to be a RSX-11M v4.1 distribution. Unfortunatly two of the
disks
> seem to be damaged. I was able to recover 3/4 of one, and boot it in the
> Supnik emulator, the other wouldn't even mount.
>
> Now, I've got a question about these packs, and thier labels.
>
> RSX-11M V4.1 |
> RSXM35 V1 | I was able to copy 8,638,976 bytes of
> RLUTIL V2 | 10,485,760. It will boot.
> Copied 06/19/84 | Fault light now comes on when try
to load
>
> RSX-11M V4.1
> EXCPRV V1
> HLPDCL V2
> Copied 06/19/84
>
> RSX-11M V4.1
> MCRSRC V1
> Copied 06/19/84
>
> RSX-11M V4.1 |
> ACSQ22 V1 | Fault light comes on when I try to load
it.
> UPDATE V2 |
> ACS MODS V3 |
> Copied 06/19/84 rev 06/14/84 |
>
> Unfortuntaly I suspect that the first pack is the most important, and
based
> on the SYSGEN documentation, I need the first three packs to do a SYSGEN.
> What on earth is the third pack?
MCR is the standard command line interpreter, prior to DCL, and that disk
is the source for building it.
> Also, is this the standard way for a RSX-11M distribution to be packaged?
No, it looks like you have an RL01 distribution (which IIRC came on 6
packs) but copied to RL02s, two RL01s to a pack. It's been a long time,
but I think RL02 distributions were 4 packs, called something like RSXM35
(that's a bootable baseline minimal system, with the SYSGEN stuff on it,
like yours), MAPSRC (sources to build a mapped system) UNMSRC (to build an
unmapped system) and the last pack had all the extra software (EDT, DCL,
and friends). The fourth pack you have is possibly an update and may not
be necessary. But my memory may be playing its usual tricks.
> Once I've got archival copies made of all this I'll be more willing to
play
> with the packs. On a positive note, I can play with the images in the
> emulator while copying them. I think I've still got over a dozen packs
to
> go through. I'll probably finish the RL02's tonite.
Best of luck! I suspect you have enough to rebuild the system, if you can
read the packs, and perhaps there are more amongst the ones you have yet to
check.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
>i started a new job last week; one of my duties is going thru a
>warehouse load (no joke) of older mac systems. everything from se30's to
>older powerPC machines. question is this: since they all are being
>scrapped and i cannot save them
Why can't you save them?
>anyone want me to pull some roms for them? or any other useful components?
let me know WHAT
>they are, and WHERE they are
How about a Power Mac motherboard or two? :-)
More realistically, I'd be interested in any PowerPC processors & ROMs.
Some of this stuff is probably more trouble to remove than its worth,
though. How much did you want for the componets?
Sincerely,
Tom Owad
--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>
I'm passing this along from the Dead Media Collectorz list in case anyone
is interested in vintage calculators.
R.
From: "Seth D. Carmichael" <scarmike(a)tmn.com>
To: "Dead Media Project Collectors List!" <collectorz(a)lists.tmn.com>
Subject: [collectorz] FW: for collectorz
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:56:25 -0400
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Please respond directly to Nick: nbodley(a)tiac.net
Seth
***************************************
>Now this is sounding fun. One question, do you feed the output from the
>SLU to the input of the VT?
You should be able to do that... but the VT103 had some special
paddle board which plugged into the connector on the VT100
basic video board and which provided a connector (2x5) which
connects to something like an MXV11-B, and a second connector
which also attaches to the MXV11-B (or DLV11-J) and routes the
signals through to the external connector (if I remember
correctly - otherwise it provides a separate external
conenction).
I'll have to open up my VT103 at work one of these days to get
the info for you (like part numbers).
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
> Wow. I didn't know that anybody besides Commodore ever used XT IDE. I
have
> a couple of WD-98???-X drives, one in a Commodore Colt that I use for ROM
> burning. IIRC, WD made 20Mb and 40Mb XT IDE before moving on to AT IDE.
> Commodore even designed-in an XT-IDE port on their A2091 and A590 disk
> controllers for the A2000 and A500, respectively. The A590 did ship with
> 20Mb XT drives; the A2091 did not have the 40 pin connector soldered in
place.
> It does work; I have retrofitted one. They are slow.
>
> And, yes, the ST251/251-1 are both MFM. I use them on ancient DEC
hardware.
>
> -ethan
>
>
I believe the Tandy 1000 TL/2 and TL/3 (not sure about the TL/2) also had a
built-on XT-IDE controller. The TL that I have has a HardCard.
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
(in his best Rodney King voice)
Can't we all just get along?
Actually, for me, Providence is quite a haul :)
Tony
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Donzelli [mailto:william@ans.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 1:54 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: RE: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market
>
>
> > >Dare we attempt to create a Boston area computer users
> group with our
> > >raggedy group?
> >
> > I'd join...!
>
> Hey, Providence is not too far away.
>
> (Blatant RetroComputing Society ot Rhode Island plug).
>
> William Donzelli
> william(a)ans.net
>
Okay, which board do you have?
Jeff
At 12:25 PM 8/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> Ethan:
>>
>> Try www.natinst.com. Far as I know national still supports prettyy much
all
>> of their hardware.
>
>When I first got the cards last year, I tried them. I couldn't find
>a reference to my board. I wasn't surprised (the board is over 10 years
old),
>so I stopped digging.
>
>Maybe they have added more to their support page recently.
>
>Thanks,
>
>-ethan
>
Ethan:
Try www.natinst.com. Far as I know national still supports prettyy much all
of their hardware.
At 09:15 AM 8/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>> > I came up with an IEEE488 8-bit card, with drivers. Anyone want it?
>> >
>> > manney(a)lrbcg.com
>> > "Enough is abundance to the wise." -- Euripides
>
>What is the card? What drivers? I have a couple of 8-bit IEEE-488 cards
>and _no_ drivers. It's a standard, but old, National Instruments card. If
>you tell me the model number of yours, I'll check it against mine when I get
>home. I'd love drivers for it.
>
>-ethan
>
At 09:56 PM 8/17/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote:
>OK, it's been killing me, so I've just gotta ask. What do you do with a
>C64 running at 20MHz? Play a *really* fast game of Ms. Pacman?
>
>-- Doug (from his 200MHz IMSAI 8080)
Tsk, tsk! ONLY 200mhz??? Didn't you see the IMSAI overclocking FAQ???
:)
-
- john higginbotham ____________________________
- webmaster www.pntprinting.com -
- limbo limbo.netpath.net -
< Well, Joan did want to start a club called Computer Preservationists of
< Massachusetts (CPM for short). Maybe this might be the time to get it
< goin'.
Sounds like a good thing. There are people in RI and south RI doing
this as well.
Allison
< then wire-wrap one slot AB<->CD... Also, when I did it, I went down
< to one of the Digital Stockrooms and picked up some specialized
< 'power strips' which were generally used for bussing DC on the
< backplane, but could also be used to connect signal pins. It was
< a copper strip which had alternating pin-sized holes and large
< holes which wouldn't contact the pin... Perfect for connecting
< corresponding pins of successive backplane slots...
I have a bunch of them still, for exactly that use! Handy for home made
backplanes!
Allison
< two minutes? that is slow... I can boot my TU-58 based system
< in 30 seconds... (I engineered an optimized TU58 many years
< ago when people within Digital were asking how to get it to boot
< faster). It involves specific placement of various RT-11
< files on one of the four recording tracks. For those who wanted
< the system to run faster once booted, you could additionally take
< the step of loading stuff into VM and rebooting it it...
Having done that (I have a system I can demonstrate) plus the VM: trick
it's possible to build a really nice system using TU58 only! It's in the
V5 RT11 doc set.
FYI for the 11/730 hackers the TU58 boot tape for that beast also has an
optimum order for faster booting.
< (depending on the rev of the 11/23... only Rev.C could
< do so).
I've found earlier revs do, but not all and they may fail diagnostics
while appearing to work normally. I try to reserve 11/23 (KDF11-A M8186)
to 256k unless I've verified it's a REV-C or later and tested it.
The later 11/23B (KDF11-B M8189) is Q22 and saves needing a boot rom/card.
They are common enough.
Allison
More like a crummy computer. I think the school had bought it used for $50
(or it was donated), and it wouldn't even run Win 3.1. It had Win 3.0 (1
MEG RAM). When I was looking at it, the power supply (this is from 1991)
pumped out a huge 32 watts. I'm surprised that the thing lasted as long as
it did.
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
----------
> From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Philips XT with 768K/heat
> Date: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 6:51 AM
>
>
> < Would excessive heat caused the bearings in the fan to freeze? The fan
> < working when the computer was turned on, but was totally frozen (VERY
ti
>
> The heat may have helped the fan fail but the do fail, the result is not
> good for some systems.
>
> Likely it was a crummy fan.
>
> Allison
>
The last VT103 I configured went to RCS/RI and it was tested with a
11/23B in it.
< Well, I always thought that RSX and RSTS/E were far
< better of with more memory. Also, with V5.0 of
< RT-11, the availability of 4 MBytes and a VM: was highly
< useful - not needed, but very nice. Of course, until
< recently, DEC memory boards were so expensive that
< more than 1/4 MByte was not worth while in any case as
< opposed to SIMMs with the PC. However, a half MByte
< board (M8067) is now so inexpensive that it is no longer
< a problem.
I have systems with 256k and more, with a hard disk having a ramdisk is
cute but not required. Doing a a non hacked system is far easier.
Also 4mb of DEC qbus ram (1mb cards) will severely load the BA11S boxes
I have never mind the Vt103 PS, I've done it. That box with 11/73, RQDX3,
DLV11j, LAV-11, RLV12, RXV211 and 4 memory cards overloaded the 340watt
PS! The disks were off seperate power. Heck the two RD52s and RX33
requires a 70W power supply.
< > A good package is a 11/23, 256kram, DLV11j, RQDX3, BDV11.
< > That gives you 4 serial ports, full memory without backplane mods,
< > RX50/RX33 floppy and MSCP hard disk (RDxx) and the BDV terminates
< > the bus plus supplies some of the desireable boots (no mscp).
<
< What hardware did you use to connect the RQDX3 to the RX50/RX33
< floppy drives? In general, I found the floppy to be far too slow
< and if I was jumping up the an RX33, for the same price (at current
< cost for a hard drive) I would prefer at least an RD51.
The BA123 disk distribution card M9058. I use both RX33 and RX50.
generally stuff for RX50 being more common I use that more though the
rx50 will read/write RX50. for a hard disk 30mb Quantum D540s (RD52)
as they are fast and reliable plus plenty of space. RD50, RD51, RD31,
RD32 are not worth the effort as they are slow or old.
< You can always power the disk drives with an auxiliary power
< supply from a PC. In that case, you can even have 2 hard
< drives and 2 floppies. Otherwise, with just the one hard
Danger Will Robinson. External MFM drives on seperate power means YOU
MUST POWER OFF THE DRIVE FIRST THEN THE SYSTEM. Failure to do so will
mean writing garbage to the disk at what ever track it's on. The fix is
easy reformat and reload the disk... Not something you want to do. It's
ok if they both power off at the same time. Many PC power supplies have
a switched outlet that can power the VT103.
< drive (under the tube), it is indeed on the edge of the PS
< if the VT103 supplies all the power. One other option I
Don't, the drives generate serious heat and that spot is poorly cooled.
< mentioned is that a SIGMA RQD11-B (MFM controller)
< uses about the same power as an RQDX3, but has BOOT
< ROMS. As a result, you can use just the dual 11/23 and
< no BDV11. Then there is enough internal power to run
That's handy but the disk is 30-37W and it's the back breaker. Going
with over 256k of ram invites the same problem. If you want a big system
get a decent box with adaquate cooling and power and use that.
< YES!! If run for a long time. But for short demos of
< an hour or less, the VT103 was highly effective. Most
< individuals who were familiar with the VT100 did not
< recognize the VT103. So when the demo was given,
< the first reaction was to ask about the computer - they
< saw only a VT100. We used to say that we had substituted
< clever squirrels inside the VT100 instead.
there were three differnt similar systems. PDT11/130 with TU58, VT103
and a MDS11-A. The latter two woere similar but slightly different
backplane.
< I even heard that someone had re-wired the backplane
< to allow a MicroVax II (ABCD slots for the first 2).
It would be easier to use a H9276 or other correct backplane in the
available space. Still the microvaxII and memory eats power in
a serious way.
< Now imagine if DEC had sprung the VT103 on the
< PC world as a PC at PC prices with a 150 watt power
Try more like a 300W ps to build want your talking about.
< supply (and a bigger fan) to easily allow hard drives under
< the tube. And later, had gone to the MicroVax II as
Why not the pro350/380, a well designed PDP-11 desktop system.
If you want a tiny vax get a VS2000 or one of the 3100 series.
< a standard option. The 10 year late DEC PCs would
< have been initially based on the PDP-11 and could
10 years late???? The Pro350 was in the market the same time as the PCxt
and the PDT11/150 predates the PC by a few years.
< then have used the VAX. The only thing lacking was
< a pricing model to compete with the XT and the AT
The PRO350 competed with a loaded PCxt with CGA color and a hard disk for
very similar $$$$. for similar $$$ inthe PCxt space was the Rainbow100.
< I understand that a total of 32 solder connections are
< required. I once saw the re-wired backplane. It
< seemed to have been done with wire-wrap wire
< since the solder points were so small.
The ones I did had longer WW pins on the backplane (BDV-11s) and I used
a standard bussing strip I have. Saves megga pain WW'ing a backplane.
Allison
>> < If anyone has a VT103 and needs some help with
>> < how to set it up as well to convert to a 22 bit backplane,
>> < likely both Megan Gentry and I are able to supply the
>> < necessary technical information.
>>
>> I've built a few and have data as well.
>>
>> Allison
>>
>Someone -- post the wire wrap info...
If I remember correctly, you buss pins BC1, BD1, BE1 and BF1...
With a Q/CD backplane, that would mean just four sets of
wires down the AB side (BC1-BC2-BC3, etc, BD1-BD2-BD3, etc, etc)
For a Q/Q backplane, that would mean
BC1-DC1-DC2-BC2-BC3-DC3, etc (maintaining the serpentine)
BD1-DD1-DD2-BD2-BD3-DD3, etc...
BE1...
BF1...
or you could do what I did... bus the AB and CD sides separately,
then wire-wrap one slot AB<->CD... Also, when I did it, I went down
to one of the Digital Stockrooms and picked up some specialized
'power strips' which were generally used for bussing DC on the
backplane, but could also be used to connect signal pins. It was
a copper strip which had alternating pin-sized holes and large
holes which wouldn't contact the pin... Perfect for connecting
corresponding pins of successive backplane slots...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Well, Joan did want to start a club called Computer Preservationists of
Massachusetts (CPM for short). Maybe this might be the time to get it
goin'.
Tony (who runs off to find a home for the Data General arriving in
september)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: allisonp(a)world.std.com [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 12:43 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: RE: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market
>
>
> < Dare we attempt to create a Boston area computer users
> group with our
> < raggedy group?
>
> Tony,
>
> That may be a good idea. Basic meetings would be the first step.
>
> Allison
>
OK, last night I tried copying the damaged RL02's that contain what is
supposed to be a RSX-11M v4.1 distribution. Unfortunatly two of the disks
seem to be damaged. I was able to recover 3/4 of one, and boot it in the
Supnik emulator, the other wouldn't even mount.
Now, I've got a question about these packs, and thier labels.
RSX-11M V4.1 |
RSXM35 V1 | I was able to copy 8,638,976 bytes of
RLUTIL V2 | 10,485,760. It will boot.
Copied 06/19/84 | Fault light now comes on when try to load
RSX-11M V4.1
EXCPRV V1
HLPDCL V2
Copied 06/19/84
RSX-11M V4.1
MCRSRC V1
Copied 06/19/84
RSX-11M V4.1 |
ACSQ22 V1 | Fault light comes on when I try to load it.
UPDATE V2 |
ACS MODS V3 |
Copied 06/19/84 rev 06/14/84 |
Unfortuntaly I suspect that the first pack is the most important, and based
on the SYSGEN documentation, I need the first three packs to do a SYSGEN.
What on earth is the third pack?
Also, is this the standard way for a RSX-11M distribution to be packaged?
On a semi positive note, the drives (2 RL02, and 2 RL01) came with 2 RL02
packs and a RL01 pack in them. The two RL02's contain a bootable system
that appears to have the Whitesmith C on it. I'm not sure about the RL01.
I'm still hoping the Whitesmith C distribution on RL01 is OK.
Once I've got archival copies made of all this I'll be more willing to play
with the packs. On a positive note, I can play with the images in the
emulator while copying them. I think I've still got over a dozen packs to
go through. I'll probably finish the RL02's tonite.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
Dare we attempt to create a Boston area computer users group with our
raggedy group?
Tony
> -----Original Message-----
> From: allisonp(a)world.std.com [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 17, 1998 11:06 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: RE: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market
>
>
> < If people out here in the east are really interested, I'm willing to
> < lend my convention experience... Lemme warn ya beforehand,
> Its alot of
> < work.
>
> I wasn't thinking of a real convention... more like a remote tailgate
> party.
>
> Allison
>
> Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 14:31:42 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com>
> Subject: C64 for $800
>
> I'm no Commodore expert, but is there really anything in this lot that's
> worth more than a coupla bux, or is this just the alex-factor at work
> again?
Actually there's quite a lot of really good Commodore 64/128 stuff there...
> 1- C128-D Computer, with keyboard and internal 1571 disk drive. Jiffy Dos is built in with the switch
> on the front of the machine. In GREAT condition.
the 128D is a nice computer when you find one that works reliably. $30
> 1- Super CPU 128 with 8 Megs installed. Will put the 128-D at 20 mhz.
This is a 20 Mghz accellerator for the 128, it was just put on the market this
year. Probably good for $150 alone.
> 1- CMD RamLink with 12 Megs, includes the HDD Cable and battery backup.
Nice REU unit, does a RAM disk with it's memory and allows for fast parallel
access to CMD Hard Drives. Another $100.
> 1- 1581 Disk Drive... with Jiffy Dos
Somewhat hard to get maybe $40 at best.
> 1- CMD FD-2000 Disk Drive. 1.6 meg floppies yeah!
Improvement over the 1581, lets you also use 1.44 md disks and with right
software access IBM disks too. $75.
> 1- CMD 2 GIGAbyte Hard Drive that looks CHERRY New!
A CMD Hard Drive for your Commodore 64/128 is a must for the commodore fan,
Probably about $200 at most.
> 1- Commodore 2002 40/80 Color Monitor
Nice Monitor, can be used on Amigas too... $40.
> 1-1541 Disk Drive... Yes, WITH Jiffy Dos
> 1- 1571 Disk Drive with.... Jiffy DOS!
> 1- C64c Computer
Ok, I guess... Not too terribly exciting there... Maybe $50
> 1- Action Replay Cartridge (believe its v4 or 5)
Get $15 probably from me, I prefer Super Snapshot myself.
> At least 30+ Origional Programs
'Paid for Software' A buck a piece without knowing what it is... $30
> A whole GEOS COLLECTION, Origional in boxes.
I'm not much of a GEOS Fan. I could resell it for probably $20... Though
with an original GEOS 64 2.0 disk I coulde upgrade to the recent GEOS upgrade
- Wheels, which sounds pretty hot.
> Over 300+ 5.25 floppies, all kinds o stuff.
Read Pirated I'd go up to $30 hoping there would be a few gems of 64 software
lore hidden away.
> Once again, this is a once in a lifetime Commodore Collection. If you can pry this from my hands you've
> gotten the BEST Commodore Hardware that has ever been available anywhere.
Lifetime, no, Heck I could collect that all in a year at a fraction, just try
to find docs for a PET MTU graphics board (like I am), I have a collection of
a lifetime.
> Everything... Is in VERY GOOD working order, many things are in fantastic shape. No junk
> whatsoever. (Well I didn't go thru all 300+ floppies, treat those as "BLANKS"
>
> I should mention, many manuals and software for the CMD items ARE INCLUDED! The FD, the HDD, THE RL and the SCPU 128.
>
> Now all you gotta do is....
> Show me da Money! :)
Total about $765 dollars, not to say I would bid on it, but, it is a nice list
of equipment, and the current price is not all that out there. You can tell
by the list the guy was either a Commodore BBS sysop or heavily into GEOS,
only those two groups buy heavily into RAMLinks and mass storage units. I
Don't recognize the name Ice BBS though.
--
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
< Would excessive heat caused the bearings in the fan to freeze? The fan
< working when the computer was turned on, but was totally frozen (VERY ti
The heat may have helped the fan fail but the do fail, the result is not
good for some systems.
Likely it was a crummy fan.
Allison
I also have a neat XT. It's not a Phillips, but a Tandy 1000. It has 768K
RAM, and a 12MHz 286 processor. Only, I still have the problem of not
being able to access the upper memory. Being a Tandy, it's even harder to
find a driver. Another setback is it's HD. It's a 20MB Western digital -
and slow as a turtle. Does anyone, by any chance, have a spare
XT-compatible IDE HD without a stepper motor driving the heads??
ThAnX,
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
> It was a neat machine for an XT. I don't recall if I ever checked to see
if it
> was using that extra memory or if it had any SW with it. My friend will
be
> delighted to know that he can squeeze out a little extra ram for
memory-hungry
> DOS programs.
>
> ciao larry
>
> lwalker(a)interlog.com
< That, is not the HD heat problems...cooling air was poorly done in
< both installation and case design. Old Compaq Deskpro cases have
< that in mind. ST225 got real hot too so need to watch that on any
< 5.25" hds and insure cooling is good.
Amen to that. Heat is a bad thing for computers or their peripherals.
Most suffer from to much heat, and too much heat around the disk stack.
< Those ST251's have rapidly died out around here,
Actually I'm still running one, in a Leading Edge model D Xt box that
does cool exceptionally well. The power supply (and the fan in it) is
behind the disk stack and exceptionally well cooled. I put a second fan
in the 486/66 for that reason... to hot.
The altair taught me well about heat... and lousy air flow.
Allison
< If people out here in the east are really interested, I'm willing to
< lend my convention experience... Lemme warn ya beforehand, Its alot of
< work.
I wasn't thinking of a real convention... more like a remote tailgate
party.
Allison
A minor success story compared with some I read here, but I wanted to
share it with you...
This weekend I finally got my Tektronix 4052 graphics computer loading
and saving on a Commodore 8050 disk drive. The problems:
Commodore's weird handling of IEEE-488 protocol, especially with OPEN
and CLOSE. This requires bit 7 (the 128s bit) to be set when sending a
secondary address; bit 4 - usually the 16s bit of the address - tells
the drive whether it's an open or a close.
This was easily solved - the Tektronix WBYTE statement gives full
control over such things.
But the Tek is designed as a tape based machine. You FIND a file on the
tape and type OLD to load it. The machine then resets and loads the
program.
On a disk, you WBYTE @40,240: some bytes to specify the file name. But
if you type OLD @8,0: it asserts IFC during the reset, thus causing the
drive to have forgotten all about your program by the time it comes to
load it...
So I toyed with the idea of cutting the IFC line in a suitable cable.
But then I came across the APPEND statement. "APPEND @I/O address:line
number" loads a program without resetting, renumbering it to start at
the specified line. Neat.
So I now have a program to display the directory of the disk, prompt you
for a filename and APPEND the file on the end of itself. It then
performs an INIT (initialise variables, IFC and things) and drops into
the program.
Saving is easier, so less automated. You type something like
WBYTE @40,241:48,58,80,82,79,71,82,65,77,32,78,65,77,69,-13
WBYTE @63:
SAVE @8,1
WBYTE @40,225,63:
Not perfect, but it works. If anyone has an 8050 at the VCF, I'll
happily demonstrate!
Now, has anyone got a PET hard drive? And, for that matter, has anyone
got a MUPET system for sale?
Philip.
OK, I've read through the entry on the DLV11-F in the "Microcomputer
Interfaces Handbook" (I love finally having some documentation). According
to it this card supports either a 20ma current loop interface or
EIA-standard lines, but doesn't include modem control.
My first question is, am I correct in assuming that I can attach a VT100 to
it with the proper serial cable? I know I could use the 20ma current loop,
IF I had a VT100 with that interface.
Anyway does anyone have the pinout for a BC01V-X or BC05C-X modem cable?
My guess is that it's a 40-pin ribbon connector on one end and a DB25
connector on the other. Unfortunatly I don't seem to have the pinout for
the 40-pin connector or I'd see about putting this together.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
I acquired a PDP-8/L not too long ago, and in discussion with the
original owner he advised I have a fire extinguisher on hand when I power
it up.
That concerns me, as I'd rather not burn up a PDP-8/L (or the house).
What can I do to ensure the -8/L wont catch fire (or do anything else
equally bad) when I turn it on? I don't have a very good knowledge of
electronics, but I can certainly open it up and examine boards.
Tom Owad
--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>
>>Don't forget the most important thing, you can REALLY control the spark
>>curve :)
>
> Yes and the transmission shift points in some cars.
What?!? Took me a couple of minutes to work out what you're even
talking about, there.
These (mostly non-electronic) analogue computers were quite popular in
larger cars (in the UK, anything with more than 2.5 litres - 150 cu. in.
- of engine) in the early 'seventies, but they were inefficient and
unreliable and I never use them if I can avoid it...
I refer of course to automatic gearboxes. If you want control over the
transmission shift points, get a manual gearbox with electric overdrive.
Every time!
(Hmmm. Thinks... I don't think I've seen an electric overdrive on a
car made later than 1980. But automatic gearboxes are still alive and
kicking. It's a strange world...)
Philip.
Uncle Roger asked:
>A quick question... How many people know how to work on their cars? How
>many drive older vehicles without as much "black-box" stuff?
'68 Plymouth Sport Suburban (= 3-seat Fury wagon *not* the Chevy Suburban).
I'll work on the stuff that makes it go but I let professionals
handle the stuff that makes it stop or turn.
I sometimes fantasize about a medium big terrorist nuke at very
high altitude using EMP to shut down all the microprocessor-controlled cars
in the state. I don't think that would stop my car with its points and
coil. 'Course, the road will still be jammed full of inert new cars....
....and my classic computer collection will be garbage! Auuugghh!!!
I don't fanatasize about that very often.
- Mark
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Large Asteroids headed toward planets
inhabited by beings that don't have
technology adequate to stop them:
Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward.
At 06:47 PM 8/15/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> Whether that is true or not is completely irrelevant to the pricing of
>> Altairs as collectibles.
>
>Not at all. It's the *perceived* significance and rarity that makes these
Exactly! That perception need not have any basis in fact.
>Bill Gates first wrote BASIC for the Schmaltztair rather than the Altair,
I'm not sure how much Gates has to do with the perceived value of the
Altair; it may be that people just think of it as the "first".
>those brilliant bastards at Ty came up with a scheme for artificial
Doncha wish ya was one of them? 8^)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
At 11:30 AM 8/15/98 -0700, you wrote:
>I don't think ZDNet will post my comments, as mine started with:
>
>Piracy YES. Commodore 64 NOT!
Actually, they did; it was my comment that didn't get posted. I berated ZD
(et al) for proclaiming a computer dead simply because they do not receive
any advertising income from its users.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
At 04:11 AM 8/15/98 GMT, you wrote:
>inflation of the price of something that should belong to people who
>respect it as other than a "collectors item". Now I'm sure this
Why does this idea always come from the people who don't have/can't afford
the objet in question? If works of art, classic computers, '56 corvettes,
etc., should all belong to the people, then maybe we should all switch to
socialism. I have no problem with that. Everyone on the list could then
turn over their classic computers to the state, and take 3 or 4 homeless
people into their apartments. Certainly, if old computers should be shared
amongst all, then more so should food and shelter.
On the other hand, if we want to stick with the system we've got (and if
you've got a roof over your head that doesn't leak, you're doing pretty
well with this system) then we have to accept that artwork, cool cars, hot
babes (and hunks), and computers all go to those who can afford them, and
we need to quit whining about it and work to get ahead so we can be one of
those who can afford a $12K altair.
In the meantime, there are plenty of other computers out there to play with
and if you're just interested in it as a technical toy, Compupro's were
much better, or you can design your own S-100 box. And I doubt someone who
paid $12k for an Altair is going to use it as a boat anchor or flowerpot,
so don't worry about its survival.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
I dunno. I was thinking more in terms of hardware
availability, and actual adherence to the IEEE
standard. I used to play with GPIB alot, but that
was some years ago . . .
Jeff
At 03:58 PM 8/17/98 -0500, you wrote:
>At 01:45 PM 8/17/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>At 07:14 PM 8/17/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>>A minor success story compared with some I read here, but I wanted to
>>>share it with you...
>>
>><Story on how our intrepid hero kludged Commo and Tek Snipped>
>>
>>Maybe you would have been better off using an HP IEEE disk drive:
>
> Will these use HP drives? Has anybody tried using one on a Tek or PET?
>
> Joe
>
On Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:40:15 +0200 (CEST), Jason writes:
cl> Another setback is it's HD. It's a 20MB Western digital -
cl> and slow as a turtle. Does anyone, by any chance, have a spare
cl> XT-compatible IDE HD without a stepper motor driving the heads??
Those hard disks were very slow, and noisy too. They also suffer from
sudden head stiction. You are lucky it is a Western Digital.
Older machines had Miniscribe hard disks which were worse.
You can switch off the XT-IDE hard disk port with switch 8 of the
DIP switches in the Philips XT and install a regular MFM disk controller
and hard disk in the machine. Works like in any other XT.
Kees
--
Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - pb0aia at amsat dot org
Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - http://vaxarchive.ml.org
Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered
> >
> > Yeah. All the docs would be cool. The thing that really
> bugs me is that
> > I dont remember how to boot one :)
> >
> > Sure did meet Allison, she's still got a Compupro RAM card floating
> > around somewhere for me. Since we work mere blocks from
> each other, it
> > shouldn't be tough to get it from her.
> >
> > We can meet up at the Sept flea somewhere, I'll have my PDP
> collecting
> > girlfriend in tow.
> >
> > I actually want to entertain the idea of maybe joining up
> with the west
> > coast folks to see if we can get a VCF together for us east
> coasters.
> > Hell, cant be any worse than running a Japanese Animation or Sci-Fi
> > convention (both of which I have done in the past).
> >
> > Tony
>
> We should consider doing it with the Trenton Computer Festival
> http://www.tcf.net which was full of old stuff in the good
> old days -- but
> it's been moving to newer stuff (and PC's) lately. I haven't seen an
> 8 or 11 there for a couple of years.
>
> I've seen Sun3/4's, DecStations, some old PC stuff in
> addition to the current
> stuff.
>
> Bill
>
If people out here in the east are really interested, I'm willing to
lend my convention experience... Lemme warn ya beforehand, Its alot of
work.
Tony
At 07:14 PM 8/17/98 -0500, you wrote:
>A minor success story compared with some I read here, but I wanted to
>share it with you...
<Story on how our intrepid hero kludged Commo and Tek Snipped>
Maybe you would have been better off using an HP IEEE disk drive:
1. They're really common (at least, here they are)
2. You can get floppy, Winchester, or Tape
3. IEEE implementation is a little more 'standard'
But then again, mebbe you *need* to read commo disks with this
thing. Either way; well done, guy. Don 'cha love twiddling
those bits?
In this neck of the woods anyway, Commodore IEEE related 'stuff'
is pretty scarce . . .
Jeff
< As for noise, yes. It's noisy by today's standards. All of the old
< drives were touchy WRT handling. I didn't consider it more so than
< any other 8 year old drive.
The ST251 is easily over 12 years and known for spindle problems.
It runs real hot. Not a great drive compared the Quantum d540 (31mb)
that is voicecoil(fast), reliable and known to be very unfussy about
handling. Also the ST251 was very flakey compared to it's 20mb
counterpart the st225. Not all were touchy WRT to handling. The biggest
problems is that between new developments and company turnovers some
really poor drives made it out the door due to design errors or worse
poor quality control.
I still use st506, st412 and st225s but NOT st251s. I also have some 7
Quantum D540s that refuse to die in my PDP-11s, vax, and CP/M systems.
Allison
A recent storm blew a tree over and into my garage. It so happens
that I had an computer near the spot where the tree went through
the garage. Although not physically damaged by the tree, there was
a lot of water damage to the computer and especially the monitor.
Being an older machine, I am not sure how to place a value on it
for insurance purposes. If anyone out there has seen anything
recent on the machine as to what they are selling for,
I would appreciate sharing of that info.
The computer is an IBM RT Model 135, Type 6150. It has a 5 1/4 floppy,
and two hard drives (100MB & 300MB), plus the usual video and
network card.
The monitor is an IBM Model/Type 5081-19, 19" color with RGB inputs.
I am not trying to come up with some inflated value for this thing
to take advantage of the insurance company, just a reasonable fair
value to settle the claim. The machine worked fine before I parked
it in the garage. I know that there is probably cases where the
machines have just been thrown or given away, but would like to get
some compensation for it, if nothing else for what was a working
19" color monitor.
Thanks in advance for any helpful info.
Mike Thompson
mzthompson(a)aol.com
My profile's on my III's can't be accessed through Prodos, but need a disk
called catalyst to get to the drive. If you need a copy email me
personally.
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Spence <ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, August 07, 1998 8:45 PM
Subject: Apple III & Profile
>
>Greetings,
>
>I finally got around to trying the Profile hard drive someone gave me,
>with my Apple III, but I can't get it to work. I haven't tried
>formatting, but I wan't to leave that as a 'last resort', in case there's
>something useful on the drive.
>
>I opened up the drive when I first got it, to see what's inside. The
>actual drive mechanism is a full-height 5.25" jobbie, and IIRC it's 5MB.
>I don't remember who the manufacturer was.
>
>I power up the drive first, and wait until the READY light stops blinking.
>I have no Apple III docs, I just 'guessed' that that was the proper
>procedure. I don't know if it is yet.
>
>I then boot up the III with the SOS 1.3 Utilities disk. I've used the
>configuration program to make .PROFILE active. The configuration file
>reports the following:
>
>item field value
> 1 - Device Name................ .PROFILE
> 2 - Device Type................ $D1 Block, Read, Write ( range
00..FF )
> Formatter present; NonRemovable
> 3 - Device Subtype............. $02 ( range
00..FF )
> 4 - Driver Status.............. ACTIVE
> 5 - Comment
> Apple /// SOS Profile Driver (C) Copyright 1981, Apple Computer
Inc.
> 6 - Configuration Block data
>
> Slot Number................ 04
> Unit Number................ $00
> Manufacturer ID............ $0001 Apple
> Block Count................ $2600 (9728)
> Version ID................. 1.00
>
>I can't edit the configuration block data, though. If I go down to item 6
>and hit RETURN, I get to the "Edit Driver Configuration Block" screen,
>which looks like it should have at least 16 values on it. It only
>displays "[FF]" at location 00, though, and although it says I can use
>arrows to go to other values, the arrows don't do anything.
>
>If I go to the "Device handling commands" section from the main menu, and
>attempt to Verify .PROFILE, the READY light on the Profile blinks, there
>is a clicking noise, and the READY light goes out. The program reports
>".profile - Volume not found". The READY light stays out for a while,
>blinks a few times, then comes back on and stays on.
>
>If I go to "List devices configured", it pauses when it gets to .PROFILE,
>and reports "(no directory)", and the drive behaves exactly as with
>Verify.
>
>It's possible the drive just needs to be formatted, but as I said, I don't
>want to do that until I'm sure there's nothing salvageable on it.
>
>I'm not even sure I've got the cabling right. I assumed it takes a
>straight-through 25-pin cable from the ProFile controller to the drive
>unit. No twists or turns along the way?
>
>Also, I've got two Profile controllers, one in slot 3 and one in slot 4.
>I coulfn't get it to work at all from the one in slot 3, simply because it
>seems to have been preconfigured to look at slot 4.
>
>Any helpful info will be appreciated.
>
>Hopefully I don't get frustrated and try formatting the unit before I get
>a reply. :)
>
>
>Doug Spence
>ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca
>http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/
For something this old, (and worthless?) you can't really put a price on it.
I have one also, but really has no value to anyone but myself. $100 maybe? If
you don't keep the machine, i sure could use a keyboard...
In a message dated 98-08-17 09:51:22 EDT, you write:
>The computer is an IBM RT Model 135, Type 6150. It has a 5 1/4 floppy,
>and two hard drives (100MB & 300MB), plus the usual video and
> network card.
>The monitor is an IBM Model/Type 5081-19, 19" color with RGB inputs.
>I am not trying to come up with some inflated value for this thing
>to take advantage of the insurance company, just a reasonable fair
> value to settle the claim.
>Has anybody heard of the Imsai Vdp 40 machine? What is it, and
how many have been made?
Not sure how many were made, but the VDPs came out in the late 70's,
around '78 or '79 as I remember. I bought several to use as special
purpose POS terminals in a casino. They were in a "standard" size
IMSAI/S-100 case, but they had a short motherboard (8 slot? have to
look) and bays for two full height 5.25" floppies. Typically they came
with an IMSAI 8085 CPU card, a two board floppy controller (not very
reliable), PerSci floppies, and a 64K DRAM memory board. The power
supply was scaled down from the big 500 watt version, plus it had an
extra regulator board for the floppy power. There was no front panel,
just two buttons, RESET and INT (I think this was connected to one of
the S-100 interrupt lines), and a power switch.
IIRC there were three basic models, the /40, /42, and/44. The 44 was
the high end, full 64K and the fast PerSci disks. Just before IMSAI
folded, they were offering a hard drive interface to some type of 5MB
top loading drive (I think it was some CDC drive equivalent to the DEC
RL02), at least the salesman called and tried to sell me some, but I
never actually saw them. IMSAI was famous for it's vaporware.
System software was CP/M 2 with NED (aka WordMaster), a nice video
terminal oriented editor.
I still have one, though it does need a little work on the motherboard.
How I got it was an interesting story in itself. Originally I had
bought four of them for a customer, in late '78, just before IMSAI
folded. After they were installed I didn't have too much contact with
the customer, but I knew they were in use for several years. About 12
years later a friend of mine came over one night, dumped a VDP40 on my
table and said I could have it. He had paid $5 for it at a yard sale,
knew I had some IMSAIs, thought I might want it. I opened it up, and to
my suprise found the custom serial card I had wired for the original
customer still in there, it was one of the original VDPs I had bought.
No idea how it wound up at a yard sale.
Jack Peacock
I've been trying to make an archive copy of my Mindset
software, because all of the commercial software for
the Mindset requires the original disk to be inserted
before running, including Microsoft GW Basic !
Does anyone have (successful) experience copying Mindset
disks, or know of a real kick butt copy program for the
IBM PC?
=========================================
Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com
Senior Software Engineer
Press Start Inc.
Sunnyvale,CA
Curator
Museum of Personal Computing Machinery
http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum
=========================================
Guys:
I just wanna thank Seth and Allison for advising me on the uVax I was
contemplating.
The guy wanted $75 (which seemed reasonable), but I decided not to enter
the VAX
arena at this time. I have way to many things on the stove as it is.
Besides, after much soul searching, I've come to the conclusion that I'm
not really
a VMS kinda guy.
BTW-- I met Tim Hotze IRL this weekend. He's a nice kid. But since he's
moving
overseas, he can't bring all of the hardware he wants with him! Bummer.
He'll
have fun with the Apple ]['s I got for him, though.
L8r.
Jeff
This was a slow week. Not that I didn't find a lot but I was running out
of money! I did pick up *SEVEN* HP 64100 Logic Developement Systems.
And a HP 8180 pattern generator with a 8181 extender with all the cables
and manuals. I passed up a HP Touch Screen II and a HP 9826 and several HP
9000 300 series computers.
The HP 64100 LDS dates from the early '80s but HP is still making a
similar machine. These look like an oversize RS model 1s with a tape drive
to the right of the monitor and a opening to the right of the keyboard. The
opening is used to install an optional EPROM burner socket. The main unit
has slots for 9 expansion cards for logic analyzers, various CPU emulators,
extra memory, etc. I will probably keep one, the rest are up for grabs if
anyone wants them. I will charge a reasonable price to cover the cost of
packing and taking to UPS (Gag! I hate that place!) But be warned they are
bigger than a model 1 and weigh about 75 pounds bare. They're located in
Florida so you can figure out shipping. I don't have any of the plug in
emulators, etc but I do have two boxs of manuals. Most/ all of these will
be scrapped if no one wants them, they're too big to keep around.
Joe
Yeah. All the docs would be cool. The thing that really bugs me is that
I dont remember how to boot one :)
Sure did meet Allison, she's still got a Compupro RAM card floating
around somewhere for me. Since we work mere blocks from each other, it
shouldn't be tough to get it from her.
We can meet up at the Sept flea somewhere, I'll have my PDP collecting
girlfriend in tow.
I actually want to entertain the idea of maybe joining up with the west
coast folks to see if we can get a VCF together for us east coasters.
Hell, cant be any worse than running a Japanese Animation or Sci-Fi
convention (both of which I have done in the past).
Tony
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Stek [mailto:bobstek@ix14.ix.netcom.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 17, 1998 10:10 AM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: RE: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market
>
>
> Hey, Tony -
>
> Give me some time to make copies, and the SOL docs will
> be yours. Should I
> assume you also want the actual kit construction details, or
> will the theory
> of operation, schematics, etc. be sufficient?
>
> Yesterday was my first visit to the MIT flea market,
> too. Did you meet
> Allison? I bought a great new Integrand cabinet/power supply
> from her. I
> think I saw everything you bought except for the Osborne
> Executive (which I
> would have bought had I seen it first!) - I just have more
> self-restraint
> (or perhaps less money <g>) Perhaps we could go together in
> September. It
> may not be VCF 2.0, but it's what we got!
>
> Bob Stek
> bobstek(a)ix.netcom.com
>
At 05:37 PM 8/15/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote:
>$12K too much for you to pay for an Altair? OK, here's a guy that made a
>$25 Altair clone:
And don't forget, the C source and Windows executables to Altair and
IMSAI emulators are available on my web site.
I've put them there in the hopes of attracting someone who'd like
to verify their emulation, supply source code to bootstraps or
example programs, add an emulated ASR-33 for "reading" pretend
tapes and viewing output, sound effects, etc.
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
Hey, Tony -
Give me some time to make copies, and the SOL docs will be yours. Should I
assume you also want the actual kit construction details, or will the theory
of operation, schematics, etc. be sufficient?
Yesterday was my first visit to the MIT flea market, too. Did you meet
Allison? I bought a great new Integrand cabinet/power supply from her. I
think I saw everything you bought except for the Osborne Executive (which I
would have bought had I seen it first!) - I just have more self-restraint
(or perhaps less money <g>) Perhaps we could go together in September. It
may not be VCF 2.0, but it's what we got!
Bob Stek
bobstek(a)ix.netcom.com
I came to own a scanner made by The Complete PC, Inc. Natrually there
isn't any software with the device do anyone here know where I could
find a program to use this thing? I know this isn't quite 10 years old
but in '99 it will be so could we bend the rules this time?
