>> I just picked up a Tektronix 4041 computer. I think it's a general
>> purpose HP-IB instrument controller similar to a HP 9915. How close is it
>> to your 4052? I HAD a Tektronix 4046 disk drive unit for the 4041 a few
>> months ago but I traded it off (A_ S___!) Does anyone know anything
Not at all similar, I'm afraid.
The 4051 was a 6800 machine, and the 4052 used four 2901 chips and a
homebrew sequencer to give you a 25MHz 6800 with some extra
instructions. More about this - and the disgusting piece of
pessimisation they included - at my talk at VCF...
Philip.
Tony Duell qouted Jeff as having written:
>> Maybe you would have been better off using an HP IEEE disk drive:
>
> Problem is, I don't think Philip has the CS/80 protocol (mainly because
> I'm looking for it, and he's not offered it to me ;-)). And without that
> impossible-to-find document, it's almost impossible to use HP drives.
True. The reason was, I have _no_ HP disk drives, but I have _three_
8050s (one working, one in bits, one badly mangled), not to mention a
4040 and a 2031 (which would also work), and at least six PETS. So the
Commodore stuff was the obvious choice.
And Tony is also right: I don't have the CS/80 protocol.
Besides, most of the problems were with the Tektronix lacking facilities
for opening files, loading and saving named files, etc.
Not to mention its asserting of IFC just when I didn't want it to...
> The Commodore protocol is pretty well documented in a number of books
> ('Programming the PET' has enough info, I think).
by Raeto West? Exactly what I used.
>> In this neck of the woods anyway, Commodore IEEE related 'stuff'
>> is pretty scarce . . .
>
> It's not that rare in the UK. I've got an 8050, 8250LP and a number of
> printers here.
Agreed. Lots of PETs were used in commercial/scientific applications -
probably because of the GPIB - and there are even books like West or
Osborne & Donahue in the library here at work.
Philip.
I want to apologize to you for accidentally sending you an anti-spam
message. When I first set up my auto-reply spam filter it was acting
quite funky.
Again, I apologize.
Tony
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter [mailto:pechter@shell.monmouth.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 7:48 AM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Re: What the hell is a NightHawk 5800?
>
>
> >
> > At 09:26 PM 8/19/98 -0400, you wrote:
> > >Almost sounds like something from the government - even
> the name.
> >
> > Very likely. Harris does a LOT of government work. Their satellite
> > division (and others) are literally right around the corner
> from this place.
> >
>
> Harris had a number of computer lines. I can't guarrantee the
> following
> info -- but I think it's accurate. The Nighthawk was a
> (mostly) military
> real-time Unix machine based off the Masscomp 500 and 5000
> line and RTUv3
> (they started as OEM's doing a secure version of the OS and
> then began using
> stuff of their own design).
>
> Masscomp was eaten by Concurrent Computer (formerly Perkin
> Elmer, formerly
> Interdata) which was swallowed by Harris about 4 years ago. Harris
> took the Concurrent name, though.
>
> Harris also came up with both a firewall application (now
> sold by a different
> company now -- at the merger Harris spun off the firewall
> operation and
> the secure Unix, I think). They now do real-time Unix and are trying
> to crack the Video Server business.
>
> Masscomp and Concurrent used the 68000 family (Masscomp folks
> used to be
> DEC and DG types with Real-time experience on 11/23 Mincs).
>
> Masscomp kind of filled the need for small lab real-time
> stuff when DEC
> went off to chase the Vax $$$ and let real-time slip away in the mid
> 80's. They added DEC's AST's to System III to get a soft real-time
> system for labs and instrument and industrial control.
>
> HISTORY...
>
> Concurrent did real-time on their proprietary systems (OS/32) and
> saw a need to get away from OS/32 and into real-time Unix so
> they bought
> Masscomp. Concurrent failed in every small machine they tried to
> put together before Masscomp and pretty much put the last
> nail in Masscomp's
> coffin. Concurrent failed to come up with a good software
> development
> environment on OS/32. DEC cleaned their clock on everything but
> hardware price/performance. They had the most hardware bang
> for the buck and needed the OEM's to make them a winner (where
> DEC moved more into a systems and SOFTWARE company). I worked for
> DEC and later Concurrent (at the time of the Masscomp deal.)
>
> PROCESSORS...
>
> Masscomp went from 68k to Mips R3000 in the early 90's and then
> merged with Harris.
>
> Harris used 68k and then went to 88k (I think) and then Power PC.
>
> Harris also made commercial supermini's (24 bit machines).
>
>
> Bill
>
> P.S. - If anyone is interested, I'm willing to provide an edited copy of
> my windows cardfile of vendors. have about 1000 pages, w/ contacts for
> alot of diff manufacturers. email privately if interested. :)
Would you still happen to have this cardfile available?
At 12:17 AM 8/19/98 -0400, William Donzelli wrote:
>
>I am also now the proud owner of an SGI 4D/380 (and most of another
>4D/380). Physically it is in very good shape, but apparently it is quite
>sick. 8 processors, buckets of SIMMs, neeto graphics, but the best thing
>is the "CPU Power Meter" on the front of the cabinet...
>Does anyone have IRIX on 1/4" tape?
With SGI, you're dealing with a (barely? :-) still existent company.
You're supposed to buy IRIX, not copy it. On the other hand, is
there any evidence that an IRIX license was transferred to you
as part of the deal on this machine? Buying a second SGI box that
comes with a license will be cheaper than buying it from SGI. :-)
Ask the experts on news at comp.sys.sgi.*.
- John
> Hi William,
> Do you have a URL for the RetroComputing Society? I'm in South
> Central PA. Maybe I could make it down some time.
Try <http://osfn.org/rcs/>.
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
On Sun, 16 Aug 1998 17:00:56 -0700 you said to classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
cl>YES YES YES!!!!!! *Jumps about and throws mouse at floor like
cl>football* Oops...
cl>At any rate, I am now successfully logged into the MicroVax II as
cl>SYSTEM!
cl>Thanks to all who helped me out! Now if I just had documentation
cl>other than the built-in HELP database.
cl>Basically, now what I'd like to do is get some assistance (in
cl>private email if it's more appropriate) to make a full backup of
cl>the system so that I can feel safer playing around with it.
For VMS documentation try the links at
http://vaxarchive.ml.org/swdoc/vms/vms_doc.shtml
This is a list of a great deal of VMS documentation available online.
Basically you first create a Standalone Backup tape, which is bootable
tape needed to backup a system disk and restore a backup to a blank hard
disk, and then you boot from this tape and do the backup.
Boot VMS from the hard disk and enter these commands to create the
standalone backup:
$ SET DEFAULT SYS$UPDATE
$ @STABACKIT
The program asks for the name of the device the kit is to be built on,
usually this is MUA0:
To back up the system, boot from the tape with
>>> B/E0000000 MUA0:
When the prompt appears, enter the command:
$ BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY DUA0: MUA0:FULLBACK.BCK/REWIND/LABEL=AUG19
This assumes you are backing up the first hard disk on the first disk
controller to the first tape drive on the first tape drive controller.
Kees
--
Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - pb0aia at amsat dot org
Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - http://vaxarchive.ml.org
Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered
< Was DEC's EDT text editor ever `ported to any non-DEC platforms, such a
< PCs or unixes? It is still my favorite text and program editor, and I'
< love to have on on some of my "everyday" machines.
No. I do use VEDIT for CP/M configured to use the EDT keypad and function
very similar. It allows me the full screen modes via keypad and also
command line (change) using TECO macros.
Thre are versions (predeccessor) to EDT that run on PDP-11 under RT-11,
RSTS and RSX11.
Allison
allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote:
> < http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=25437342
Well, that's Allison quoting me. I'd been nosing through eBay to see
what else there was to fuss over and noticed someone put up a big lot
of parts for a low price and u-pick-up in Arlington, MA. Thought it
might be of interest to someone out that way as repair parts.
Where folks find time to go through eBay listings is what I wonder.
-Frank McConnell
Hmmm... Is the 4046 the SCSI Floppy Disk/Hard Disk rack mountable unit?
Tony
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@intellistar.net]
> Sent: Monday, August 17, 1998 11:55 AM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Re: Minor Tektronix success story.
>
>
> I just picked up a Tektronix 4041 computer. I think it's a general
> purpose HP-IB instrument controller similar to a HP 9915.
> How close is it
> to your 4052? I HAD a Tektronix 4046 disk drive unit for
> the 4041 a few
> months ago but I traded it off (A_ S___!) Does anyone know
> anything about
> the keybaords for the 4041? It uses a strange 4 pin
> connector. I've heard
> that you can operate them from a terminal. Does anyone know
> anything about
> this?
>
> Joe
>
> At 07:14 PM 8/17/98 GMT, you wrote:
> >A minor success story compared with some I read here, but I
> wanted to
> >share it with you...
> >
> >This weekend I finally got my Tektronix 4052 graphics
> computer loading
> >and saving on a Commodore 8050 disk drive. The problems:
> >
> >Commodore's weird handling of IEEE-488 protocol, especially
> with OPEN
> >and CLOSE. This requires bit 7 (the 128s bit) to be set
> when sending a
> >secondary address; bit 4 - usually the 16s bit of the
> address - tells
> >the drive whether it's an open or a close.
> >
> >This was easily solved - the Tektronix WBYTE statement gives full
> >control over such things.
> >
> >But the Tek is designed as a tape based machine. You FIND a
> file on the
> >tape and type OLD to load it. The machine then resets and loads the
> >program.
> >
> >On a disk, you WBYTE @40,240: some bytes to specify the file
> name. But
> >if you type OLD @8,0: it asserts IFC during the reset, thus
> causing the
> >drive to have forgotten all about your program by the time
> it comes to
> >load it...
> >
> >So I toyed with the idea of cutting the IFC line in a
> suitable cable.
> >But then I came across the APPEND statement. "APPEND @I/O
> address:line
> >number" loads a program without resetting, renumbering it to
> start at
> >the specified line. Neat.
> >
> >So I now have a program to display the directory of the
> disk, prompt you
> >for a filename and APPEND the file on the end of itself. It then
> >performs an INIT (initialise variables, IFC and things) and
> drops into
> >the program.
> >
> >Saving is easier, so less automated. You type something like
> >WBYTE @40,241:48,58,80,82,79,71,82,65,77,32,78,65,77,69,-13
> >WBYTE @63:
> >SAVE @8,1
> >WBYTE @40,225,63:
> >
> >Not perfect, but it works. If anyone has an 8050 at the VCF, I'll
> >happily demonstrate!
> >
> >Now, has anyone got a PET hard drive? And, for that matter,
> has anyone
> >got a MUPET system for sale?
> >
> >Philip.
> >
> >
>
A guy in Sweden put 4mb and a uVaxII and some MFM (RQDX?) in one
< with no problem and some serious wire wrap work.
<
< I don't think it's impossible -- especially with a reworked
< power supply.
Sorta agrees with what I said.
I looked at my Vt100 and it would be possible to shoehorn a set of VS2000
boards power supply and a disk into the VT100 case. It's easier to sit it
on top. ;)
Allison
> With all the DEC enthusiasts here, maybe someone can help:
>
> Was DEC's EDT text editor ever `ported to any non-DEC platforms, such as
> PCs or unixes? It is still my favorite text and program editor, and I'd
> love to have on on some of my "everyday" machines.
You might want to look into JED - it has EDT keymaps available, as well
as Wordstar and Emacs. It runs nicely on Unixes, and Win95 ports seem to
be happening as well. It's available at:
ftp://space.mit.edu/pub/davis/jed/
You'll also need the Slang library, available at
ftp://space.mit.edu/pub/davis/slang/
Slrn and Most, also available at that site, are my favorite newsreader
and pager, respectively. I haven't used Jed as much.
--
Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley(a)ac.grin.edu
CBEL: Xavier OH, Season 15 champions CMEL: Xavier
>With all the DEC enthusiasts here, maybe someone can help:
>Was DEC's EDT text editor ever `ported to any non-DEC platforms, such as
>PCs or unixes? It is still my favorite text and program editor, and I'd
>love to have on on some of my "everyday" machines.
Yes, there have been several ports of EDT. By far the most complete -
and the most expensive - is Boston Business Computing's. Everything
that is in real EDT is in BBC's EDT. See http://www.bbc.com/ for details.
There are several less worthy emulations, that do a pretty good job
of emulating EDT's CHANGE (ala "full-screen") mode but which don't
even attempt to emulate non-keypad or line modes. In particular,
an emulation package for EMACS falls into this category, as well as
the shareware JED.
-----
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917
7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817
Some folks may recall that my classic computer web pages (at
<http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/>) are automatically generated by a
program I wrote. Well, I've finally got the docs in some semblance of
order, for them what was interested. There's a link at the bottom of the
page, or you can go straight to
<http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/bldhtm.htm> for the related page. You
can also download the whole shebang there. Sorry it took so long!
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
< ObCC: Supposedly, MITS came out with a hobbyist machine a couple of year
< before the Altair called the MITS 816. I haven't found much info about
< it. Is it real?
The only prior products to the altair were a hand calc (several) and also
some hobbiest telemetry bits. If there was another computer it was a
maybe to compete in the MARK-8 realm (8008 based).
In the 8008 realm there were several companies that predate MITS. There
used to be a company here in MA called Control Logic I think that had
their "L series" modules that were 8008 based.
Personally I view collecting Altairs to wine... altair was the first lot
produced by a particular vintor. It was as drinkable as hog urine but,
it was their first and the vintor would become famous and fail making
that first lot scarce and "collectable".
Most of the early altairs had to be hacked (required) to make them work.
They are now shelf addornments and should be held up as an example of
how not to do it. I'm being serious. Anyone that wants a S100 front
pannel box to actually run would do far better with an IMSAI, Ithica
Intersystems, or several others. Most however learn the first thing
with these is that once you have it running the first code you want is
a terminal keyboard monitor as replacement switches are a few bucks each
and the originals are getting poor. Also toggling in 25 or 50 bytes every
power up or crash gets tiring. I say this as someone that lived with the
MITS ACR (sill have the analog board for one) where you toggle
in a 33byte loader, then load MITS basic crash half way through (10
minutes), toggle in the loader again, load the tape... I think that
lasted three months until I made my first PROM card using 8223 proms.
A few weeks later the ACR tape interface would be removed in favor of
a digital tape of my own design. The load, crash, reload cycles were
a great detriment to the goal of doing some serious programming. I
still feel the flakey hardware and really awful audio cassette kept me
>from doing anything useful for the first 6-7 months of ownership.
Hacks applied to mine to make it work with some reliablity before it was
replaced with a NS* system in early 78.
* Moved AC power from front pannel switch as I felt it was dangerous
having an unprotected traces with 110v on them.
* 8V DC line was 7.8v with cpu and two 4k dram cards. Added 12 turns to
the winding. Upgraded filter cap to larger value, replaced undersized
rectifers. Mits offered a new transformer at users cost.
* +-16V DC line marginal, rectifers fried, upgraded.
* Backplane was in four slot segments and was a single sided affair.
I had 8 slots and had to add bussbar to the power and ground lines
as the power distribution from one end of the bus tot he otehr was
poor.
* modifed memory cards (88MCD) to improve timing and signal quality.
* Replaced backplane with a improved two sided one from third party.
* Replaced 2mhz crystal and oneshots used for 8080 clock with 8224 and
18mhz crystal.
* modified memory cards to replace 4060s with uPD410 static devices of
the same pinout.
After all this the system would load MITS basic and run for a week solid
without crashing.
By the middle of '76 I'd be up to 4 memory cards of both the 88mcd design
and a vastly better 88S4k design. a then whopping 16k of ram. That would
be eclipsed by the addition of a Seals 8k static card that was 1/3 the
cost of the first 16k and still works!
If I'd waited a year and bought an IMSAI I'd have saved all that time,
about $3000 and had a machine that would not have required replacement.
The upside is by that time I'd learned how it should NOT be done.
Allison
RE: VAX/OpenVMS
< I would have thought so. I don't think there were any features "retired"
< going form 5.2 to 5.5. Of course, there were lots of new things added
< although sitting here I can't think of what - it's been a while since 5.
< was released!
I've been operating VMS 5.4-5.5 without docs for about five years. I'd
consider a 5.2 docset a windfall! The differences from 5.2 to 5.6 are
in part bug fixes (odd releases, like 5.3, 5.5) and feature additions
(5.2, 5.4, 5.6). that's not absolute but it generally follows that
pattern. Also within a version 5.x major changes will not happen or it
becomes 6.x! Also if the system is complete there will be a features
and additions page in the help file.
Allison
< http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=25437342
<
< When I last looked (an hour ago?) no-one had bid, the minimum bid is
< $1.00 (though there's work involved getting the stuff), there's a bit
< under two days to go, and here's the description:
<
< >Hundreds of tubes of brand-new 7400 & 74LS TTL DIPs and resistor
< >networks. 8 MHz 68000's and 16K DRAMs. Boxes and boxes of brand-new 3M
snip...
Sounds interesting but I'm cubed out here.
Allison
Almost sounds like something from the government - even the name. How
much are they asking for it? If it's not that much, it may be worth it
just to get it and see just what the heck it actually was for...
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
----------
> From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: What the hell is a NightHawk 5800?
> Date: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 1:07 PM
>
> I was offered a NightHawk 5800 computer today. What the &*&% is it?
I've
> never heard of one. It was made by Harris Computer Systems and it's
> supposed to have 16Mb, Memory tape unit, a 5802 processor, 64 Meg Local
> Memory, 64 Meg Global Memeory, 2 slot front plane (front plane???), SCSSI
> Interface (no that's not a typo), Eagle Eatha Net Card, 4 mm DAT drive
and
> two 1 G hard drives. The operating system and a LARGE pile of manuals
are
> included. Any one know anything about this? ANY idea what it's worth?
> Is it usefull for anything?
>
> Joe
>
>>Same guy. Dunno, might be same machine. $10,000 reserve!
>
> I hope E-OverPay eats him up with the listing fee!
>
> Joe
Actually, it costs him nothing to relist. The initial
listing cost him $2 but he is afforded one free relist
if the item does not meet it's reserve.
Now, I know that many of you want to chase the moneychangers
out of this temple. And some probably even think that I
am the anti-christ who came in on a black helicopter.
But please try to help me understand something. If I
put something up for auction on Ebay I have not held
a gun to anyone's head and forced them to buy anything.
If, by their own free will, they make the decision to
bid an amount that is more than the accepted value
of that item then what have I done that is unethical?
If someone goes to a high priced Mom and Pop hardware
store and pays $30 for a Weller soldering iron when
he can buy the same iron at Wal-mart for $20 did Mom
and Pop do something unethical by offering the iron for
$30?
I know many of you have occupations in which you (or
your employer)
sell products or services at retail. And I'll bet
some of it is sold at what many would deem "sucker" prices.
Does that make you unethical? Simply because
you are not willing to price at wholesale?
What is the difference?
Bob Wood
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I know this may be somewhat off-topic (I did throw in the word Altair a few
times though) but I can't help wondering now, what is preventing someone
>from setting an outrageous reserve and then simply accepting the highest
bidder's bid. The Ebay rules state (heh - you can believe me this time - I
just re-read them!) "You will not be charged a Final Value Fee if: There
were no bids on your item; OR There were no bids on your Reserve Price
Auctions that met the reserve price." In this case the Altair seller could
accept a bid of up to $9999 and end up owing Ebay $2.
Perhaps the Altair's ACTUAL (=in his head) reserve is considerably less than
$10000 and the person is simply trying to avoid the Final Value Fee.
<G>But is this ethical?
It should be noted that a winning BIDDER can also back out of a sale if
their bid didn't meet the reserve.
>
>Hey, Bob. I just noticed that you are the current high bidder! We
only
>know a few things about you: you're in it for the money, you've got a
>bunch of Altairs that you got "cheap", and you're an ethical guy. So,
>what's with the first momentum-setting bid?
>
>-- Doug
Doug,
To do this all in one post, first let me reply
to Marcus when he says...
"Ebay takes 5% of the bid
regardless of whether or not the reserve was met.
So if last time the bids went up to
$5000 - Ebay has billed him $250 + $2".
Marcus, When I need information relating to the
history of microcomputers I go to the experts. Doug
Yowza is an example. So, while certainly not an Ebay
expert, I'm a very experienced Ebay seller and you
can rely on my understanding of Ebay's terms.
Ebay charges a seller from 25 cents to $2 to list
each item (determined by the dollar amount of that
item's minimum and/or reserve). If the item does
not meet the reserve there is absolutely no further
fee charged by Ebay. If the item sells, the commission
charged by Ebay is as follows... 5% of the amount up
to $25. $2.5% of the amount between $25 and $1000.
And only 1% of the amount above $1000. The Altair
seller has been charged a total of $2 by Ebay, at this point.
If the Altair were now to sell for $10,000, the total
of fees and commisions he would pay to Ebay is
an additional $115.62.
Now, Doug, you ask "what's with the first momentum
setting bid"?
You have (and I suppose understandably so) jumped to
a wrong conclusion. If you have read all my words to
the readers of this list it should be apparent that
I have been very candid with you. I have no interest
in "establishing a momentum". The fact is that I had
tentatively made a sale on one of my Altairs. That sale
was never consummated. With all of the mention of
list subscribers contacting the parties involved in the
auction - I think it is possible that may have contributed
to my losing a sale and may influence the seller in question.
For that reason, I placed a bid that is the highest I
am willing to pay (Yes I will pay $2500. If anyone wishes
to sell me his Altair, contact me directly). If the seller
is told by those outside of his auction that his expectations
are silly then I am hoping he will sell me the computer
for that amount. It costs me nothing to try.
But, Doug, now that I have answered your question, you
have failed to answer mine. I would be very interested in
hearing your answer.
Bob Wood
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
At 08:00 PM 8/17/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Strange coincidence, I just picked up another today (my second, the first
>doesn't pass self test).
Hint! Mine didn't either at first. It gave a bunch of ROM errors. I
unplugged the ROM drawer and it passed self tests. Then I took out the
ROMs and found one with one of it's pins bent under. I straightened the
pin and put everything back in place and now it passes all tests.
I know only a little about it from the manuals I
>got with the first. The only thing I know about the keyboards is that
>they are difficult to find, as I've never seen one yet.
I can believe it. I know a guy that has six 4041s and he still hasn't
found a keyboard.
>
>Its 68000 based and has a backplane inside so you can add or remove cards.
>If you look carefully at the bottom face of the unit, you'll notice it is
>a little cover about 1" high and the length of the front of the machine.
>You can pry it off with a coin, then pull on the rubber handle you see.
>Out pops a ROM tray. The one I got today has the Graphics ROM and
>thegraphics printing option.
Mine has the Program Developement ROMs and two other ROMs with Tektronix
part numbers but no name. They show up as PD, XO and IO in the self test
failure listing.
>
>You don't necessarily need the keyboard to program it although it helps
>I'm sure.
I'll bet! I'm still looking for a keyboard for my HP 9915s too!
Joe
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>Ever onward.
>
> September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
> [Last web site update: 08/09/98]
>
>
>While there, I found a slim manual to the CDC 6000 series
machines.
>Something about SCOPE...I suppose I ought to read it.
>
There were two OSes for the CDC 6000/7000 series, SCOPE and
KRONOS. KRONOS was the full blown OS, lots of feature,
utilities, etc. while SCOPE was the stripped down OS (I think it
predated KRONOS). As I remember SCOPE didn't really offer much
more than MSDOS in terms of services, it was mostly batch
oriented, big jobs, CPU intensive, not much timeshare support.
KRONOS was a fairly good timeshare environment for it's day, not
in the TOPS-20 league but of course very fast, being a 60 bit
Cray design.
Jack Peacock
Perhaps Bob wants to ensure that the guy has to pay the 5% to Ebay.
- Doug
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug Yowza [SMTP:yowza@yowza.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 9:22 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Re: Another Altiar up for Auction
>
> Hey, Bob. I just noticed that you are the current high bidder! We only
> know a few things about you: you're in it for the money, you've got a
> bunch of Altairs that you got "cheap", and you're an ethical guy. So,
> what's with the first momentum-setting bid?
>
> -- Doug
> Actually I'm still running one, in a Leading Edge model D Xt box that
> does cool exceptionally well. The power supply (and the fan in it) is
> behind the disk stack and exceptionally well cooled. I put a second fan
> in the 486/66 for that reason... to hot.
>
> The altair taught me well about heat... and lousy air flow.
>
> Allison
>
One of the computers that had a VERY bad airflow was the Tandy 2500SX.
They used to have one at my school, and someone left it on over the weekend
(turned off the monitor and forgot the computer). When they got back on
Monday, the fan in the P/S had stopped (bearings had somehow frozen), the
HD was still going, the top of the case (plastic) had gotten soft, and the
monitor had sunk into the top of the case. The hard drive was an old
Microscience 72(? may have been 80 with a lot of bad sectors) MB that
sounded like a full-height Maxtor when it was running. Nothing worked
anymore, except the HD would spin up. It was the only computer from that
school that I couldn't revive. Not even the RAM chips worked anymore.
Would excessive heat caused the bearings in the fan to freeze? The fan was
working when the computer was turned on, but was totally frozen (VERY tight
when removed from P/S) on Monday. The computer was a mini-desktop, and
only had a few vents near the bottom of the front panel and only a 2 1/2"
fan.
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
In looking at the PDP-11/03's that I got today, one thing is very obvious.
They've got disk controllers that are useless to me. The controllers are
>from a company called 'Xebec', and it is my understanding that they went to
special drives.
Now I know that the /03's are SLOW, however, they're in a nice little case
so I'm looking at them thinking, hmmmm. I wonder if I can put a DILOG
floppy controller I've got in one of them. What I'm wondering is do such
things as drive controllers care about the 18bit / 22bit differences of the
backplane? At least it's my understanding that a PDP-11/03 has a 18bit
backplane.
On a separate note, I ended up with 3 more VT100's with this, and one of
them had a loose top, so I took a look inside, and noticed that it has what
looks to be a Q-Bus backplane. What is the story here? Can I put some
cards in here and have a working PDP-11? (I know figure the odds) I took
a look through the VT100 tech manual I got today, but couldn't find
anything about the backplane.
On a positive note, I've finally got some documentation, so maybe I'll
quite asking so many stupid questions. :^) On that note, I think I'll
send this, and spend some time trying to find some shelf space for said
documentation :^(
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
At 12:46 PM 8/14/98 -0700, you wrote:
>I fell very truly sorry for you. In a computer you have such an awesome
>and powerful device, which can educate you in more than a few ways.
>Newer equipment to a lesser degree, it's all black-boxes and corporate
secrets
>now, but older gear is perfect for finding out how things work. It's a shame
A quick question... How many people know how to work on their cars? How
many drive older vehicles without as much "black-box" stuff?
I think that automobiles are similar, in that knowing how they work, and
how to work on them, is really cool, and yet, a lot of us drive modern
machines (<20yo) and take them to mechanics, without ever thinking about
them. That's not wrong, but if you can see the similarity, it may help to
understand those who use computers without caring about how they work, or
without wanting to work on them themselves.
(P.S., I drive a '59 Land Rover(s) and my girlfriend's '89 Mazda.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
Don't know if this is classic but I just got an entire VMS 5.2 'grey
wall'free. Allison - can I reliably use this as a reference for my 5.5
system?
Now to learn eve and then VAX Macro.
Regards
Pete
Coming back from a long road trip to Radiofest in Elgin, IL, I stopped by
Fair Radio Sales in Lima, OH. On a shelf I saw what looked to be a decent
Kaypro 2X. If anyone is interested, drop them an email (search the Web
for the address). I have no idea what they wanted for it, nor its
electrical condition.
While there, I found a slim manual to the CDC 6000 series machines.
Something about SCOPE...I suppose I ought to read it.
I am also now the proud owner of an SGI 4D/380 (and most of another
4D/380). Physically it is in very good shape, but apparently it is quite
sick. 8 processors, buckets of SIMMs, neeto graphics, but the best thing
is the "CPU Power Meter" on the front of the cabinet...
Does anyone have IRIX on 1/4" tape?
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
--- You wrote:
> If they're not willing to sell them, I know two places here in Florida
>that are! They scrap out MACs by the dozens!
>
> Joe
>--- end of quote ---
>
>Oooh! Where? Where?
>
Two scrappers located in Melbourne, Florida. I can get you their phone
numbers but I doubt they'd be interested in shipping anything unless you're
willing to pay a handsome price.
Joe
--- end of quote ---
I live within (notveryreasonable) driving distance -- please do tell me the phone numbers, or at least the names and I can call information. Thank you!
-- MB
>Actually, it costs him nothing to relist. The initial
>listing cost him $2 but he is afforded one free relist
>if the item does not meet it's reserve.
This is only partly true: as soon as someone bids - Ebay takes 5% of the bid
regardless of whether or not the reserve was met. So if last time the bids
went up to $5000 - Ebay has billed him $250 + $2.
So I don't know why he doesn't just start the lowest bid at his reserve
price???? This is the same guy who lists a URL to an Ebay hints and tips
page. Perhaps he has some kind of psychological angle...
Markus Blumrich - mailto:ab594@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca
Student: Physiology & Computer Science / University of Saskatchewan
http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab594/Profile.html ICQ:12361373
"Who's the more foolish - the fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan
Kenobi
< > No, the PC DB9 is the mutant. ;) The DB25s are true RS232 with full
< > handshake.
< >
< Hmmm...I'll check with my breakout box tomorrow and check the docs on th
< terminal server. Something goofy is up. If the terminal server was
< seeing the MVII, I would have been able to telnet to the port. Hmmm...
DCE vs DTE...
< > The RD can be used but you'll need the customer formatter to format it
< > the RQDX3 instead of the DMIII controller.
< >
< Aha. I knew it. Is it hard or easy to get?
I don't have it but it's not that hard to find or copy. I use a MV2000
or RQDX3 formatter on PDP-11.
< No BASIC. I was a bit irritated with that. I think I need to find a
< decent VMS distribution on magtape or a TK50 cart. I have the controlle
< for and a TS05 6250 bpi streaming tape drive. Not hooked up yet but if
< the MVII is any indication, it'll be just fine.
Well you can get the CDrom (see decus). Even if you don't have a CDrom
on a VAX you may find someone that does.
< Anyone want to trade one-a-dem for an 11/24 cpu and 512k memory board?
< (Somehow I don't think anyone will go for that.) SCSI is where I always
< seem to fall down BTW. I need one for my 11/84 so I don't have to run
< the RA80 that's in it. Eeek. Big nasty power hog.
unibus is always harder to find eithernet and SCSI boards for. For Qbus
that would be less difficult as the DEQNA/DELQA and several vendors for
scsi cards.
Allison
I took a look at this myself; I had to go see for myself.
People, I've gotta tell you, this is way past the merely
crazy-- this is total, unbridled, runaway *insanity* !
What is *our* hobby comming to? Whats next? Celebs
pooling their money for the original source listing
of AppleBASIC? (Complete with annotations by Bill Himself,
sealed in an argon-filled case?!?!)
This is becomming worse than those damned BeanieBabies (tm).
Oy, I think I need a stiff drink now . . .
Jeff
At 04:05 PM 8/13/98 -0500, you wrote:
>When I saw the final bid on that altair, i nearly peed myself.
>
>Jim, if yer listening, I'm sending ya a check!!!!
>(not for $4K tho)
>
>Four IMSAI switch paddles and a SOL Keyboard kit :)
>
>Tony
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kai Kaltenbach [mailto:kaikal@MICROSOFT.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 3:44 PM
>> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
>> Subject: RE: Altair prices
>>
>>
>> Geez, I'll bet our own Jim Willing is pretty disappointed
>> that his only sold
>> for $4213.
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=24405966
>>
>> What the heck is with that? Two Altairs auctioned
>> simultaneously, with a 3x
>> price differential.
>>
>> Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd
>> never sell them
>> (and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either).
>>
>> Kai
--- Joe wrote:
At 06:03 PM 8/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
>If they are willing to sell the systems as is I would like to buy several
>of them, Please ask them
If they're not willing to sell them, I know two places here in Florida
that are! They scrap out MACs by the dozens!
Joe
--- end of quote ---
Oooh! Where? Where?
-- Marion
< Dare we attempt to create a Boston area computer users group with our
< raggedy group?
Tony,
That may be a good idea. Basic meetings would be the first step.
Allison
Hi,
This is a message for all of you in the Twin Cities (Minneapolis, St Paul
and surroundings)
I've allways wanted to meet some of you guys so I'll try to organize a get
together open to anyone. Here's the scoop:
The place: Tequilaberries in Coon Rapids (all you can eat prime ribs for
around $15)
The date: Friday August 28
The time: 6:00 pm
The people: Me and anyone who cares to join but you must repond to me in
advance since I'll probably have to make reservations.
Please respond to fauradon(a)pclink.com
THanks and see you soon.
Francois
-------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the desperately in need of update
Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon
I got another HP toy today. Another HP 9821! I already have one and
this is only the third one in existance that I know of. A collector in New
York has the other one. Does anyone know where I can find some manuals
for a HP 9820 or HP 9821?
Joe
i started a new job last week; one of my duties is going thru a
warehouse load (no joke) of older mac systems. everything from se30's to
older powerPC machines. question is this: since they all are being
scrapped and i cannot save them, anyone want me to pull some roms for
them? or any other useful components? let me know WHAT they are, and
WHERE they are, as I am not a mac tech. more than happy to see what i
can do for you people out there who want these.
-Eric
< At any rate, are the female DB-25 bulkhead connectors true RS-232 or som
< weirdie mutation like the console DB-9 port?
No, the PC DB9 is the mutant. ;) The DB25s are true RS232 with full
handshake.
< Also, I've got a DECMate III in the garage with no monitor or keyboard.
< But it's got an RX50 and some RD series drive. Obviously the RX50 can b
< moved to the MVII since it doesn't have one (but does have an RQDX3) but
< what about the RD series hard disk? I'd like to put it on the MVII for
< extra storage capacity but I seem to recall from playing with the
The RD can be used but you'll need the customer formatter to format it for
the RQDX3 instead of the DMIII controller.
< Also, although it includes Macro (of course) it includes NO other
< language development tools. Apparently it was a turnkey type system for
No basic?
< reading utility meters. Field service last logged-in in '92!!! And it'
< got 13000some blocks free on the disk. I'm tempted to get things like
< the GNU C binaries for it etc etc...and I always give in to that sort of
< temptation! =)
More disk, need more disk.
It's good little box. Add a scsi controller like the CMD units and hang a
real good sides disk... and wheee.
Allison
>Hey, Providence is not too far away.
Maybe I should head down that way some time with Allison...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Hello - I just joined this list and thought I'd introduce myself. I'm an
avid classic computer collector and a big fan of the TRS-80/Tandy Color
Computers which were sold by Radio Shack. I have a homepage which is
dedicated to them:
http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab594/coco.html
I have approximately 30 computers in my collection (if you include
'doubles'). Of interest are an Apple III and an Apple Lisa (Mac XL), an AT&T
Unix PC, Commodore Plus4, a backlit Apple Mac Portable (not the powerbook -
the very early one) and some odd little early computer called a "Micro
Professor". It has a chicklett keyboard - came from Japan and has a
built-in BASIC language, but not much else. Since money is tight right now
(and what spending money I do have usually goes to my Marklin model railway)
I'm more interested in picking up the cheaper collectibles - things like a
Commodore 16, Mattel Aquarius, Atari 800 (not xl) etc etc. Have you seen the
Altairs on Ebay lately! Wow, $10000 reserve on one of them. Hope to chat
with you all soon!
Markus Blumrich - mailto:ab594@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca
Student: Physiology & Computer Science / University of Saskatchewan
http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab594/Profile.html ICQ:12361373
"Who's the more foolish - the fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan
Kenobi
I have an old Tandy 1000TL that needs a HD. The one that is currently in
it is a Western Digital 20MB IDE (with stepper motor). Although this drive
is still operating, it is VERY slow. Does anyone have a 20, 30, or 40 MB
3.5" XT/XTA IDE drive (without stepper) that they'd like to part with?
ThAnX in advance,
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:31:03 +0000
From: John Huddleston <jlhudd(a)sos.net>
Subject: The New MORBBS
Hi,
You may have heard of the old Morrow Owners Review Bulletin Board that
was run by Sypko Andrae for so many years until he transfered ownership
to Jay and John Huddleston of Anacortes, Washington. We had the MORBBS
for a couple years until cost became a problem and we were forced to
shutdown the MORBBS. But now there is a newer, more accessible, and
definetly cheaper MORBBS on the internet. The new board is hosted by
sos.net and there are two sections to the Morrow page. The first
section is located at http://www.sos.net/~jlhudd/morrow.html and it is
designed to let you ask for help or for CPM related files from Jay's
huge archive. The second section of the page is the messageboard
itself. You can find the messageboard at
http://www.sos.net/~jlhudd/bbs/index.html. The messageboard works
through a CGI script written in the PERL programming language. You can
post messages on the board just like on the old bulletin board only
quicker. This way you can ask for help in a message and everyone who
reads it will be able to offer their services. The message board is
also useful for announcing any hardware, software, etc that is related
to Morrow computers and/or CPM software. You aren't just limited to
Morrow though. Anything you wish to discuss about old computers is
acceptable. There are going to be many helpful post on the message
board in the near future with links to helpful or interesting Morrow/CPM
websites. I hope that you are still interested in Morrows and old
computers and that will join us at our new messageboard soon! Thanks
for your time,
John Huddleston
the Morrow Online Homepage:
http://www.sos.net/~jlhudd/morrow.html
the Morrow Owners Review Online Messageboard:
http://www.sos.net/~jlhudd/bbs/index.html
----------
> From: Kees Stravers <pb0aia(a)iaehv.nl>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Philips XT with 768K
> Date: Monday, August 17, 1998 7:22 PM
>
> Those hard disks were very slow, and noisy too. They also suffer from
> sudden head stiction. You are lucky it is a Western Digital.
> Older machines had Miniscribe hard disks which were worse.
>
I've found that out. A 10MB MiniScribe that I in a Tandy 1000 (no suffix)
sounded like a weed whacker and started to smoke when it finally went bad.
> You can switch off the XT-IDE hard disk port with switch 8 of the
> DIP switches in the Philips XT and install a regular MFM disk controller
> and hard disk in the machine. Works like in any other XT.
>
> Kees
>
> --
>
> Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - pb0aia at amsat dot org
> Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - http://vaxarchive.ml.org
>
> Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered
>
Probably the same ex-MITS person who contacted me last weekend.
Kai
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 3:12 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: Another Altair up for Auction
On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Dellett, Anthony wrote:
> Same guy. Dunno, might be same machine. $10,000 reserve!
Looks like the same machine. So, that means the record price for an
Altair is a mere $4213 (!). Probably some slick Altair dealer contacted
Ms. Lemay and offered her a shiny low-mileage Altair for only half of her
$12,100 bid.
-- Doug
Yeah, right.
This whole thing's a put-on, I'm convinced.
Jeff
At 05:08 PM 8/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Same guy. Dunno, might be same machine. $10,000 reserve!
>
>Holycow!
>
>Tony
>
I was offered a NightHawk 5800 computer today. What the &*&% is it? I've
never heard of one. It was made by Harris Computer Systems and it's
supposed to have 16Mb, Memory tape unit, a 5802 processor, 64 Meg Local
Memory, 64 Meg Global Memeory, 2 slot front plane (front plane???), SCSSI
Interface (no that's not a typo), Eagle Eatha Net Card, 4 mm DAT drive and
two 1 G hard drives. The operating system and a LARGE pile of manuals are
included. Any one know anything about this? ANY idea what it's worth?
Is it usefull for anything?
Joe
