- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Sounds like an X term, it's been around for so many years, yawn..... Kevin At 03:57 PM 18/09/98 +0100, you wrote: >>> One of the most interesting programs I've seen this week is >>> the VNC ("virtual network computing") software at >>> <http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc/index.html> . > >Is this for real!? Has anyone tried it? Sounds too good to be true! I've >seen a remote desktop facility for NT before and it had a bad habit of >crashing the NT machine on which the server was running. This software >sounds awesome though, if it works... > >cheers > >Jules >> > > ========================================================== Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department E-Comm Project Office (604) 601-3426; Cell: (604) 868-0544 Email: mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca

27 years, 10 months

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

At 10:54 AM 18/09/98 -0500, you wrote: >The 386 was important, but not because of performance. Virtual memory, >flat 32-bit address space, and V86 mode were all essential to the success Intel x86 series have anything _but_ a flat 32 bit address space! The flat memory model is one of the positive features of the 68K series. I taught a computer architecture course a couple of summers ago and one of the most challenging parts of the course was explaining the addressing schemes used on the 386 and above. Kevin ========================================================== Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department E-Comm Project Office (604) 601-3426; Cell: (604) 868-0544 Email: mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca

27 years, 10 months

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Gooeys

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> One of the most interesting programs I've seen this week is >> the VNC ("virtual network computing") software at >> <http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc/index.html> . Is this for real!? Has anyone tried it? Sounds too good to be true! I've seen a remote desktop facility for NT before and it had a bad habit of crashing the NT machine on which the server was running. This software sounds awesome though, if it works... cheers Jules >

27 years, 10 months

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Dominique Cormann wrote: > You brought up the perfect example of how it *isn't* just marketing. > > The imac did well because of: > > * Good marketing of the product and... > > * Realizing that non-geek ppl want an attractive computer that is as > simple to use as any other electric appliance in the house (it should > packaged similar to other attractive household appliances). Do you think the socially retarded engineers at Apple designed the case? Hardly. I can guarantee you it was someone more affiliated with the marketing department. > * People wanted a cheaper mac Engineers didn't decide this. If engineers had their way your computer you'd be able to stick your dirty dishes inside your computer and have it wash them while you surf the web. Engineers aren't mindful of cost (and therefore price). However, marketers are. As for the next three of your points, it is speculation (and opinion) on your part. > * They have attractive educational discounts and bundles. (The > university I go too cannot stock enough of these things, to meet student > demand). Marketing. > * This computer is far easier to network up in large groups. (Another > plus for schools). I would guess marketing had a hand in defining this. Anyway, I'm sure a lot of people are getting pissed by now of this pointless argument. I'll move it offline. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/12/98]

27 years, 10 months

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Classic Computers FS

by WHoagIII＠aol.com

Gentlepeople: Sorry, I am located in Portland, Oregon. I also have a bunch of 8" floppys both HH & FH, Shugart, Tandon, CDC, Mitsubishi & NEC. Also some 8"HDs, Quantum etc. All untested. Any interest? Paxton Hoag

27 years, 10 months

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > It would take the PC getting to the 386 before it had the < > performance perceived to be needed to attract attention. < < The 386 was important, but not because of performance. Virtual memory, < flat 32-bit address space, and V86 mode were all essential to the succes < of Windows 3. Isn't that what I meant! Performance is not exclusivly a speed metric. All those features of the 386 (its 32bitness) is the performance improment required to make GUI software more praticeable. However it's address space while better than the 286 is anything but flat. Look at teh 68k for the definition of a flat address space. < Have you ever tried GEOS? It is a very acceptable GUI with nice Yes, long time ago. Allison

27 years, 10 months

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CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I have a (unsealed) copy of DOS 1.1 as well. I've never seen a copy of DOS 1.0.... still looking.... Unfortunately I was out killing brain cells at the time DOS 1.0 was released and have only vague hazy recollections that come and go with intermittant flashbacks. What was the question again? Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 9/18/98 1:16 PM On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Marvin wrote: > I've been looking for a number of years now for DOS 1.0. The best I have > been able to do was to buy a still shrinkwarpped DOS 1.1 a few years ago. > Does anyone know/remember how long DOS 1.0 was actually out before it was > upgraded? I too have a DOS 1.1 package. I'm wondering if 1.0 was only release WITH the PC, and was not available separately as the 1.1 upgrade was? Someone who was paying attention back then then should be able to shed some light on this. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/12/98] ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Sep18.131632.1767.64218; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:16:40 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id KAA11825; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:14:31 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id KAA43978 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:14:26 -0700 Received: from mailhub2.ncal.verio.com (mailhub2.ncal.verio.com [204.247.247.54]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id KAA12449 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:14:25 -0700 Received: from shell1.ncal.verio.com (dastar(a)shell1.ncal.verio.com [204.247.248.254]) by mailhub2.ncal.verio.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA15780 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:14:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980918101330.2754H-100000(a)shell1.ncal.verio.com> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows In-Reply-To: <3602751A.2B676A5F(a)rain.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 10 months

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I feel that people also dismissed the first Mac for the same reason. (I < had limited apps to start with, but wider initial acceptance would've po < changed that.) If they had gone on ease of use, elegance of interface, a < technological superiority, they wouldn't have bought slow, clunky DOS-ba < XT's instead. The Amiga suffered the same fate. Drastically superior < technically, but perceived by the business world as only a toy. Multimed < for games and kids until Gates and IBM told them that this new "multimed < thing they came up with was going to be the wave of the future. Ok, Boys and Girls. Fetch a cup of your favorite drink and follow along. There were events and products that had to happen before we could make the quantum leap of faith to GUI interfaces. One of which was a competent and reasonably inexpensive platform to execute on. this is about technology convergence on a set of parameters needed to produce a GUI based system. I will touch on a few of them here. At the time people were looking for more serious machines the Apples were in businesses as were trs80s. S100 crates however were acknowledge as more potent *IF* the user was willing to get into the guts. At the time of the 5150 intro S100 crates with 6mhz z80s and 8mhz 8088s were on the desks of some (compupro 8/16 for example) and setting the standard for performance that PC would not achieve for several years. The problem as I saw it back then (1980 -early 82)was the number of possible systems you could buy and their attractiveness beyond appearance. Apples were fast, had graphics and were fairly easy to configure and find tons of cheap software. Many vendors also supported Apples with hardware add ons like the Softcard extending it's performance and range of executeable software. TRS80s were popular as they also offered a soft introduction for the hardware timid. Game software may have factored in the Apple success at the time as well. BUT, they were 8bit systems. Those that needed raw computing power and couldn't afford the cost of a decent PDP-11, Nova or HP system would bite the hardware bullet and go S100, Multibus, STD or VME busses for it.They also eyed the 68000 and 8086 series of 16bit cpus for a bit more computational power and larger address spaces that their bigger programs would need. The XT at first really was lackluster. It wasn't until it started showing up with a 5 or 10 mb hard disks and at least 256-512k of ram that people could see it as a potential engine of greater performance than the Apple or the others of the time. It offered the prople that hit the hardware path something less hardware intensive like the Apple or TRS80 but with the potential of 16bit performance. That last item was selling hard at the time as the next place to be and it wasn't IBM alone saying that. Even the S100 oriented knew that already. You see the idea of graphics, WYSIWYG text editing and other memory intensive tasks were already being seen in products like DBASE, Multiplan and others. This extended to push people from the floppy to larger fixed drives as well. So in the end it was the need for more performance that would alter the shape of the early 80s computer market with the outcome fairly uncertain till the late 80s. There is no small coincidence that when 8bit systems were common storage of hundres of kilobytes were adaquate. The 8088 made megabyte a word used and storage was in the same range. The 80286 and the 68000 would stay in the megabyte range but the software was using more of it and the storage formerly in the 5-10mb range was now reaching for the 40-80mb or more realm. The advent of the 32bit 386 and the faster 68010/020 made memories also move from the 512k to 2mb range in to the serious 2-8mb range with disks pushing the 100mb region and growing fast this would push RLL, EDSI and eventually IDE is the quest for more space. One more notch up. While GUIs aren't mentioned as yet, they were not the standard. Computer performance and graphics had to come up a notch or two to support that and offer acceptable prformance. Its offering of a less complex user interface would take many years to be realized and those already knowledgable of command lines saw them as slow and awkard as they sometimes were. It would take one more notch up to 32bit computing to establish the platform that GUIs needed to succeed. When it happend those timid people looking for a computer solution without the languages and hardware jumped on the bandwagon. Since Apple chose the 68000 series there were there a bit sooner and had polish off some of the rough edges. They were first, best didn't really matter. It would take the PC getting to the 386 before it had the performance perceived to be needed to attract attention. What was missed is that in the time line GUIs needed 32bit cpus. The VAX, ECLIPSE, SUN and other worstations already knew that but at $50,000 or so they were not in the running. We are talking in the under $5000 bracket throughout this dicertation. Graphics require big address spaces or at least larger than a 16bit word could easily provide. Motorola was already there with the 68000 and Intel was still working their way to it and the 286 a 16 bit cpu was not it yet! So from the time of the PC introduction to the day of the GUI is long, nearly seven years and lot's of other things had to happen along the way, each significant in it own right and also contributing to system as we know them now. Allison

27 years, 10 months

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Gooeys

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 06:36 PM 9/17/98 -0700, Sam wrote: > >One of the most useful aspects of Linux when I was using it way back when >was the virtual terminals. One of the most interesting programs I've seen this week is the VNC ("virtual network computing") software at <http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc/index.html> . It's graphical remote-control software like the Win-world's pcAnywhere program, but it's not platform-specific. They hand out source code and define the protocol, and there are servers available for several platforms, and viewers (controlling ends) for even more platforms. Incredibly, you can control your Windows or Unix X Window box from an old DOS box, a Palm Pilot, or many other machines. It runs over TCP/IP, but I'm sure eventually someone will adapt it to direct serial or dial-up interface. What does this mean for the classic collector? To me, it means being able to control old machines from different rooms, or to put old computers to better use, allowing me to peek into windows of my present-day computers. - John

27 years, 10 months

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Classic Computers FS

by WHoagIII＠aol.com

Gentlepeople; I am liquidating my warehouse and I have a lot of collectable computers for sale. Following is a rough list of what I have. If interested please e-mail whoagiii(a)aol.com. Paradise Convertable DBS 16 (MPM) IBC IMI 5021H Onyx C5000 Vector 4 Vector 3 Kaypro II Zeus 4 Mindset CPU only Zorba Plexus P/55 Chieftain S50 Altos 8000-12 with MTU (tape) Altos 580s & 586 uSci Cromemco systems 1, 2 & 3 XORI Ampro Little Board 80186 MS-Dos Lomas Data Products S100 Kurtzweil/AI KUSPPC CPU only Morrow Decision 1 with HD/Floppy Compupro S100 Televideo 8/16-40 Xerox 820, 8/16 Multibus dual Sun Intel iPDS 8080 Portable(several) wi E-prom Programmer Intel Multibus 310s, 330s & 380s Heath/Zenith Dual 8" HH Floppy Disk Drives 2 other Dual 8" HH Floppy Disk Drives Misc 5" Hard and floppy external disk drives & cases DEC Vax 730 Wi R80 DEC TU 81 Plus Several RA 81s DEC MINK 11s DEC Rainbows & 350s Tek 43XX & Tek terminals (Many 4025, 4028, 4029, 4105, 4107, 4108, 4109, 4208, 4211, Mice Keyboards) HP Integrals HP 150 I & II HP 9810A, 9815B, 9825B, 9830B, 9845B, Many peripherals and interface cables. Separate list availiable on request. I am open to reasonable offers. Please reply to my e-mail address and not the list. I am able to ship UPS, FedEX or USPS and with special arrangements, commercial trucking. Paxton Whoagiii(a)aol.com

27 years, 10 months

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CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< CP/M actually stands for Control Program/Monitor. Yes. Taken from the first paragraph of An Introduction to CPM features and facilities version 1.4 1976. (my V1.4 manual!) QUOTE: CP/M is a monitor control program for microcomputer system development which uses IBM-compatable flexible disks for backup storage. Using a mainframe based upon Intel's 8080 microcomputer, CP/M provides a general enviornment for program construction, storage, and editing, along with assembly and program check-out facilities. It goes on from there. < While I don't know for sure, I suspected PL/M stands for Programming < Language/Monitor and not Programming Language/Microprocessor. No, PL/M is Programming Language/Microprocessor It derives it's structure from PL/1 and can be viewd as an integer version of it like smallc is to full C. < By 1978, Sharp and Zenith had yet to even create computer divisions, le < alone have computers running CP/M. Zenith at the time was doing TVs and would later aquire Heathkit who did already have products (H8 and H11). generally speaking the japanese companies like Sharp, NEC, Epson and other would be a bit later. Allison

27 years, 10 months

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CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I have to admit that I'd love to know (from Gary) whether the < similarities between CP/M PIP and RT-11 (or even OS/8) are < simply coincidental or if there is something more to it... Gary was a DEC system user and did a fair amount of cross development on DEC platforms. DEC systems (PDP-8, PDP10, PDP-11 and later VAX) were the models he knew and had used. There is no coincidence that CP/M and DEC command lines and utilities were so similar. Allison

27 years, 10 months

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CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows

by allisonp＠world.std.com

that CP/M could have possibly been our main stream OS.. How could so ma < great ideas get lost in the big shuffle..? Yes I ahve a lot of the 8bit stuff like DRGRAPH. < I know everyone has been talking about GUI's, and according to this arti < Digital Research did alot of work in this area. And real product for both 8 and 16 bit systems. < Also Digital Research back in 1989 released a very good DOS called DRDOS < used this for awhile back in 1990 and was very impressed with its featur < then MS came out with a clone of it called MSDOS ver 6.0.. I still own < several original copies of DRDOS in unopened packages.. What you missed is MPM-86 and CCPM that DRI did before DRDOS! Btoh of wich were a significant advancement over DOS. Allison

27 years, 10 months

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 04:19 PM 9/16/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: > >Anyway, sorry for the rambling. But I hope you see my point. The >majority of people buy stuff because a disembodied voice on TV or a >caption in a magazine compels them to. Buy my stuff. Buy my stuff. Buy my stuff. Is it working yet? This isn't an ordinary disembodied voice. Only *you* hear it in your head, so it should be extra-effective. The usual technoid misanthropy aside, "buy what everyone else is buying" isn't a bad strategy if it's something that's not central to your life. Do you spend as much time researching, optimizing and comparing your decisions for buying food as you do with buying computers? > The majority of the people buying >into your propaganda (marketing) is what it takes to make a successful >product. I could sell dogshit if I marketed it right. Like <http://www.doodoo.com/> ? Someone's beat you to it. - John

27 years, 10 months

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:10 PM 9/16/98 -0500, you wrote: >There was never any O/S or GUI war. After the PC and MS-DOS, Apple never >owned any serious hearts and minds except for a few niches like desktop >publishing and graphics design. DR's GEM was never a serious contender, I disagree. There are plenty of people who are mac fanatics (or Atari/Amiga/Etc fanatics) but because their employer/school/software requires MS/PC stuff, they switch. The vast majority of people who really don't care one way or another; they just use whatever they have at work/school/etc, or whatever their grandson said they should get, or even what the guy at circuit city said they should use. Personally, I feel the lack of Mac Clones is what kill^h^h^h^h wounded the Mac. An awful lot of people 10-15 years ago looked at buying a full-price Mac, a Full-price IBM/Compaq/Etc, and a PC's Limited clone, and let their budget do the choosing. I know I did -- I bought a used clone motherboard and case, added a disk drive, brand-x video card with a composite monitor, and so on. There's no way I (or a lot of other people) could afford, let alone justify the cost of a name brand computer. (The same is true, to a lesser extent of the Atari ST (which was also hampered by Tramiel) and possibly the Amiga.) >nobody has mentioned the real reason for the success of Windows 3.x: >Solitaire. Just as sex videos made VHS a standard, Solitaire is the one >thing that kept users from simply deleting Windows 3.0 after the standard I agree completely on this. Although, I explained its inclusion as a tool to help people get used to the concept of and to practice with the mouse. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 10 months

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Oh no, not another imporvement!

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Over the course of the next two weeks, here at Power Tech, we are being migrated from Lotus Cack-mail to Lotus Not. It just happens that I shall be on holiday in California at the time, doing things like vintage computer festivals. The concurrence of these two happenings means I am going to POSTPONE the list for the time being... no saying how long it will take me to get back on, though! Nice knowing you all! Philip.

27 years, 10 months

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CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows

by mbg＠world.std.com

I have to admit that I'd love to know (from Gary) whether the similarities between CP/M PIP and RT-11 (or even OS/8) are simply coincidental or if there is something more to it... It sure looked like a PIP from V3B of RT-11 (I remember we did some comparisons back in the 80's...) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 10 months

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new interesting addition

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

since im known at work as a packrat of old computer junk, someone gave me something called a microsoft <!> mach 20. turns out it's a full length 8 bit card that has a 286-8 and 2 meg and high density floppy controller on it. it has a cable that plugs into the 8088 socket and the board does all the processing. basically turns an xt into an at with lots of memory. i got everything, disks manuals and the special cable. i guess for a fun vacation project, i'll see about getting win3.1 running in standard mode or maybe even os2 1.3 for a challenging project... david

27 years, 10 months

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Indeed, that's the way it should be. Would you buy an item that's never been reviewed or advertised? The only problem is that there's a tradeoff between product quality and marketing quality most of the time. Back to GUIs, I think that a GUI is very useful for some things. For example, let's say I want to look at the files in a directory and copy five certain ones. It's easiest to do with a GUI. Graphical software can use either. AutoCAD had a CLI up to the latest version, not sure if they took it out. It was a Command-line drafting program, usable very efficiently. Only now have they jumped on the Windows buttons-pop-up-when-mouse-moves nonsense. One GUI I really appreciate is the early Mac GUI, for being almost as simple and clear as a CLI. That was really a user-friendly computer. But the lessons of PARC and early Apple were forgotten and turned into a who-can-make-the-nicest- 3d-menu competition. >Oh, I disagree. > >> If anything, Sony had better marketing. Many people continued to refer >> to VCRs in general as "Betamax" even into the mid-80s. It is widely >> believed (but of course unproven) that VHS was preferred due to the >> longer recording time per tape. JVC rarely even mentioned this feature >> in advertising. > >M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G > >Mac vs. Windows - who won? Microsoft. Why? Marketing. > >PowerPC vs. Pentium - who won? Intel. Why? Marketing. > >Those are simply two of the most obvious examples. > >Anyway, sorry for the rambling. But I hope you see my point. The >majority of people buy stuff because a disembodied voice on TV or a >caption in a magazine compels them to. The majority of the people buying >into your propaganda (marketing) is what it takes to make a successful >product. I could sell dogshit if I marketed it right. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 09/12/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 05:05 PM 9/16/98 PDT, you wrote: >Indeed, that's the way it should be. Would you buy an item that's >never been reviewed or advertised? The only problem is that there's Never advertised, sure. Never reviewed, possibly. Don't think I ever saw an ad for the Sony Mavica I've got, and I know I never read a review. Bought it because a friend had one. I don't recall seeing much advertising for the Voicemail system I have. Saw a mention of it somewhere, got info, compared what it could do to others, and bought it. It's still the only consumer-priced system I've seen that can do what I need it to. The mechanics I take my (non-Land-Rover) cars to doesn't have an ad in the phone book. Doesn't need one; they get all the business they need by word of mouth. If you need a big ad, your customers aren't doing your selling for you. Which of course does not mean that the majority of the idiots out there don't buy things simply because some guy in a fancy suit says they should. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 10 months

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PDP-11/84 & Cipher tape drive questions

by rexstout＠uswest.net

Lets start with the PDP-11/84... What is that console distribution board connected to the DB-25 port in the back? Remote power control, dumb terminal or what? What's the pinout of the connector? And about terminals... What do I need to hook up a dumb terminal? It'll be either a VT-220(after a good cleaning of the keyboard and a switch or two replaced) or WY-99GT. OK, when I turn on the system the DC on light turns on and the LED's just show a boring "77" every time... What does that mean? Anyone have a list of error codes for the 11/84? And then Cipher... Got two of them actually, the nicer one is labeled as an IBM 4968(goes with my IBM Series/1). The big noisy one says it's a Cipher 0920640-98-125OU. So, what kind of interface do I need to hook it up to my 11/84? And is there any easy way to use them with a PC or Mac? And while I'm talking about drives, does anyone in the PDX area have any cheap or free drives or Unibus cards laying around they don't need? -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | Orham(a)qth.net list admin KD7BCY | --------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 10 months

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Gooeys

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Uncle Roger wrote: > And therein lies one of the main reasons I use a GUI (and would have a hard > time going back to DOS-only.) Yes, it's possible to run multiple > programs/sessions/etc. under a CLI (use to do it with a terminal and a > CompuPro 8/16 under MPM16 -- that was a great system!) but a GUI, with the > ability to arrange windows, cut and paste, etc. is a definite advantage. Certainly. One of the most useful aspects of Linux when I was using it way back when was the virtual terminals. I could switch between something like 32 different virtual terminals and be doing all sorts of stuff on each. Very powerful, very useful. Its what a computer was intended to allow one to do with it. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/12/98]

27 years, 10 months

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Web Standards Project (Off-topic but useful)

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

I wanted to share with you guys what I learned last night at a meeting of the Web Guild (affiliated with the Association of Internet Professionals). Basically a SIG for web development. The speakers introduced the audience to the Web Standards Project, which is an effort to force web browser vendors to confirm to ONE (and only one) standard so that the web isn't such a kludge. Check out the whole deal at http://www.webstandards.org. Its very promising. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/12/98]

27 years, 10 months

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Rare Find

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Sounds like some type of terminal. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: John R. Keys, Jr. <jrkeys(a)concentric.net> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Rare Find > Date: Thursday, September 17, 1998 7:22 PM > > I have not been posting my latest finds because most are not that rare but > yesterday I got Japanese monitor for $5 that is made of wood. The casing is > wood shaped like the new iMac believe it or not but smaller. It has gold > plated trim around the screen. uses 220v only and has a 9pin mono connector. > The name on it in English is Intech Systems model CP2054B SN 1002. It has a > RS232 serial port, a Centronics 8 Bit Parallel port and is in good shape. I > can not read the Japanese writing on the front or back of it. If anyone has > anymore info on it I'd like to hear it. John >

27 years, 10 months

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Printronix Info #2

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Hello to All.. Thank you so much for the various respomses to my P 300 inquiry. In doing some research, I discovered several sites with info, but nothing specific about this model, other than someone here in SoCal who has several of them for sale ($500..... not!). I have a call in to see if they might have docs and, now that I know such a thing exists.... an RS232 or Centronics I/O card. I would like to re-iterate my previous request, though... I am interested in buying, trading, copying, or otherwise acquiring a nice set of manuals for this printer.. engineering, user, etc. I like to have the docs for stuff... it cuts down on the guess-work when they break. ;) Thanks again for all the other info... and especial regards to the individual who took the time to FAX me some critical material on VMS magtape issues... taken from an important book I don't have. Yet. I am further interested in getting a VMS 5.x Grey Wall. Purchase/ship/trade/whatever. Cheers John

27 years, 10 months

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Rare Find

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

I have not been posting my latest finds because most are not that rare but yesterday I got Japanese monitor for $5 that is made of wood. The casing is wood shaped like the new iMac believe it or not but smaller. It has gold plated trim around the screen. uses 220v only and has a 9pin mono connector. The name on it in English is Intech Systems model CP2054B SN 1002. It has a RS232 serial port, a Centronics 8 Bit Parallel port and is in good shape. I can not read the Japanese writing on the front or back of it. If anyone has anymore info on it I'd like to hear it. John

27 years, 10 months

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CP/M Disks may be Northstar

by karlm＠blitzen.canberra.edu.au

Hi, I was showing those CP/M disks I found to a friend of mine (also a computer collector), and some of them are marked as being for a Northstar, if anyone is interested in these let me know, I'd like to see them go to a good home. Cheers Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum(a)student.canberra.edu.au

27 years, 10 months

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Here's something to consider.

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

I'm looking thru this June 1977 issue of Byte. Inside I find an ad from Apple on page 14&15. The copy starts "Introducing Apple II", which makes sense as the Apple II was introduced at the West Coast Computer Faire in April 1977, so this ad was probably one of the first for the Apple II. Now, one of the great things about the Apple II was its ability to display color graphics, apparently a big deal at the time, as supposedly no other machine in the home computer class had this capability (save for the S-100 machines with a Cromemco TV Dazzler, but that was an add-on, as opposed to the Apple II's built-in capability). Yet there is another ad on page 61 for the Compucolor 8001. The Compucolor boasts pretty much the same features as the Apple II (64K RAM, cassette storage, built-in BASIC) although it runs on an 8080. However, the Compucolor came with an "integrated display", and featured 160x192, 8-color (vector) graphics (the Apple was capable of 280x192 bit-mapped graphics). The Compucolor also had "mini-disk drives" (I assume 8") available for it separately. The retail price advertised for the Compucolor was $2,750, very comparable with a similarly equipped Apple II. Yet the Apple II is celebrated as having been the first home computer with built-in color graphics, and almost no mention of the Compucolor is ever made in any general computer history texts. The obvious difference between the two is that the Apple II went on to enjoy tremendous success for the next 15+ years while the Compucolor was relegated to an also-ran. The victors do indeed write the history, or at least get the lion's share of the mention. I think its odd that a system such as the Compucolor, extremely comparable to the capabilities of the Apple II (if not more so in some respects) hardly gets mentioned in the computer history books I read. Maybe someone who is cognizant of that era can shed some additional light on this. The lesson of this story is, you can have the best, most amazing product in the world, but "build it and they will come" does not apply. You've got to advertise. Apple was obviously more masterful at this. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/25/98]

27 years, 10 months

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Apple ][ programmer's reunion

by MPritchard＠EnsembleStudios.com

As someone who was there, I can tell you all it was a blast. :) :) :) The turnout was pretty high and everyone was pleasntly surpised at that. The food was even good! Woz was great form; gratious, humble, and sense of humor fully intact; people brought _all_ manner of Apple hardware for him to sign ;-) So many good people, and the memories just flowed... -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist MS Age of Empires & Age of Empires ][ > -----Original Message----- > From: SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com [SMTP:SUPRDAVE@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 4:30 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Apple ][ programmer's reunion > > www.gamespot.com/features/apple2/index.html

27 years, 10 months

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

>a nuisance. I always have at least two DOS windows open under 95 for when And therein lies one of the main reasons I use a GUI (and would have a hard time going back to DOS-only.) Yes, it's possible to run multiple programs/sessions/etc. under a CLI (use to do it with a terminal and a CompuPro 8/16 under MPM16 -- that was a great system!) but a GUI, with the ability to arrange windows, cut and paste, etc. is a definite advantage. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 10 months

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Printronix Info

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Might anyone within the sound of my bytes have docs on a < Printronix P 300 line printer? Tech Docs? User's Guide? or at least < the I/O pinouts? Same as data products B300, B600 and LP25/26/27 series. Use DEC LAV-11, LP-11 interfaces. < Also: do any of the big mail-order computer supply houses carry < ribbons for the Decwriters? Not that I couldn't kludge one from < something the same width.... Yes. Allison

27 years, 10 months

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Printronix Info

by CLASSICCMP＠timaxp.trailing-edge.com

> Also: do any of the big mail-order computer supply houses carry >ribbons for the Decwriters? Not that I couldn't kludge one from >something the same width.... Have you tried 1-800-DIGITAL? You *will* have to know the model number of the printer you need the ribbon for. Tim.

27 years, 10 months

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Printronix Info

by jpl15＠netcom.com

To the List-Group, greetings! Might anyone within the sound of my bytes have docs on a Printronix P 300 line printer? Tech Docs? User's Guide? or at least the I/O pinouts? This machine was last in service on a Prime system, and has a large (36-pin??) Winchester connector fitted. It's in prime shape [STOP THAT!!!] and I'm wishing to make it part of the DEC managerie. Also: do any of the big mail-order computer supply houses carry ribbons for the Decwriters? Not that I couldn't kludge one from something the same width.... O Yes: I would entertain the notion of purchasing (cheaply) and having shipped a VAXVMS 5.x Grey Wall... I saw one advertised a while ago but it's gone now. Thanks y'all John

27 years, 10 months

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Tandy Model 3000 HL

by oajones＠bright.net

I'm still cleaning out my basement parts supply. I found a Tandy 3000 HL motherboard and the owner's manual. The last time I tried this motherboard it was acting flaky. But if anyone wants it for parts you can have it. Just pay for shipping and its yours. Have a nice day! --Alan

27 years, 10 months

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > Since DRI was doing a GUI interface for CPM someone would have. < < Was that how GEM was started? A project for CPM, then later moved to DO < and the atari platform? Yes. It started on 8bit cpm as GSS kernal and GKS graphics extensions also with the DR Graph product. Allison

27 years, 10 months

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Commodore 64 stuff

by oajones＠bright.net

I have the following items for sale: 1. Cartridges: Music Machine Super Snapshot, V5, with screen copy (with Docs) Fast Load Visible Solar System Oil's Well 2. C2N Cassette Unit 3. Aprospand 64 (holds 4 cartidges/switchable) I would like to sell this stuff as a package. I'm asking $20. If anyone is interested please send me email. --Alan

27 years, 10 months

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G < < Mac vs. Windows - who won? Microsoft. Why? Marketing. Wrong, wrong, wrong! MS won because intel won and several downs manufacturers of clones won. Mac was a single point product that was also for much of it's life a closed product. People do like the appearence of competition so intel boxen did get a little cheaper while Macs did have like product pressure. < PowerPC vs. Pentium - who won? Intel. Why? Marketing. Too little to late. Allison

27 years, 10 months

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> Before Windows became popular, many people sneered about icons, and WI < > interfaces. Most of those same people are running GUIs now. And ther < > evidence that the GUIs were forced on them. First off the early GUI interfaces were pretty primitive and deserved a sneer. The GUI interface we know and love is far more powerful than the originals with the ability to manipulate data and objects. < The original posting claimed that if Apple hadn't been successful, we < wouldn't be running GUIs. This is absurd; Microsoft was aware of the Xe < work before Apple developed the Lisa, and had in fact hired some ex-Xero < people. Windows might have been released later, but it still would hav < happened. And if Microsoft hadn't done it, someone else would have. Since DRI was doing a GUI interface for CPM someone would have. Allison

27 years, 10 months

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C128D

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Hans Franke just gave me a Commodore 128 D, the 220 volt version. Could someone please tell me a) how to convert the PSU (no switch) or b) how to hook up a normal PC PSU. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

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GUIs 'forced' on people (was Re: Here's something to consider.)

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

Captain Napalm said: > Nope. Porn. Sony would not allow the adult film industry the liceses > required to produce Betamax tapes. The adult film industry could, however, > get VHS licenses that that probably drove customer demand for VHS over > Betamax. At least that's the story I heard. I recently read a news story on the net regarding net.porn and porn on DVDs. A Sony spokesman was quoted as saying the porn thing was a major reason for the death of Betamax and they dang well were gonna make sure people could license DVD for porn so DVD wouldn't go the way of Betamax. Roger "Another unsubstantiated net.rumor slung your way" Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

27 years, 10 months

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Lisa floppy problems

by PB14＠leicester.ac.uk

On 16 Sep 98 at 0:14, Tony Duell wrote: > One interesting 'feature' of the 800K Mac drive (and I suspect the 400K > drive is similar) is that there's a pin on the connector (pin 9, I think) > which will trigger the eject mechanism if clamped to ground. It's not > used on the Mac AFAIK. Maybe it was used on the Lisa. I suspect that the feature is used by the Apple II family. External 3.5" drives for the II have an eject switch. Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk

27 years, 10 months

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Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)

by PB14＠leicester.ac.uk

On 16 Sep 98 at 1:42, Tony Duell wrote: > How about a list of useful things for classic computer collectors, even > for those who don't want to get involved with repair. I'd start with the > following... Feel free to add things > > A transformer to convert your local mains into the 'other' standard. I.e. > a 110V step-down transformer for the UK, a 220V step-up transformer for > the states. > > A composite monochrome monitor, capable of working with UK and US TV > standards (almost all will do that). > > An analogue RGB colour monitor, TV scan rates The analogue RGB monitor is an essential but getting one that runs at TV scan rates is getting difficult. I was lucky enough to find a Microvitec badged NEC Multisync (digital and analog inputs) that seems to display almost anything. However it's now more than ten years old and starting to display its age. These types of display are snapped up by the Amiga enthusiasts so what are the alternatives? Does anyone know the signal requirements for the "new" desktop flat screen displays? Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk

27 years, 10 months

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Kaypro & Osborne Floppy Drive compatability

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Phil Clayton <handyman(a)sprintmail.com> writes: > I have several old 360K floppy drives removed from old XT's > is it possible to use these in my CP/M machines..? > Are they compatable, and has anyone used these drives in the old > CP/M's.? Kaypro: yes Osborne: I dunno I'm thinking that the O1 has funny disk drives that need power somewhere on the ribbon cable. But it's been a while since I had one open to check, and am posting in the spirit of getting someone else to jump in and correct me. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 10 months

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Small Systems (was: Single-card video/I/O solution)

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

Uncle Roger said: >I came across a couple of small systems ... > that are the size of a small shoebox ... > Unfortunately, the ones I got are 286 and 386sx machines ... > I would > love to find such a box with something more current ... http://www.mod.com/html/desktop_products.html The only thing that might possibly link this to being on-topic is that this is Ken Olsen's new company. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

27 years, 10 months

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Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Most flat screen displays use analog SVGA signals. They're trying to elminiate SVGA, and have pure digital signals, which is how it should be for a TFT screen. When this happens, you'll have a harder time using it with old machines. Eventually, CRTs may be relegated to second place (kinda like dot matrix printers). >> for those who don't want to get involved with repair. I'd start with the >> following... Feel free to add things >> >> A transformer to convert your local mains into the 'other' standard. I.e. >> a 110V step-down transformer for the UK, a 220V step-up transformer for >> the states. >> >> A composite monochrome monitor, capable of working with UK and US TV >> standards (almost all will do that). >> >> An analogue RGB colour monitor, TV scan rates > >The analogue RGB monitor is an essential but getting one that runs at >TV scan rates is getting difficult. I was lucky enough to find a >Microvitec badged NEC Multisync (digital and analog inputs) that >seems to display almost anything. However it's now more than ten >years old and starting to display its age. These types of display are >snapped up by the Amiga enthusiasts so what are the alternatives? >Does anyone know the signal requirements for the "new" desktop flat >screen displays? > >Phil > > > >************************************************************** >Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport >University of Leicester > >Tel (0)116 252-2231 >E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

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C128D

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

No, this is an internal PSU. > >>Hans Franke just gave me a Commodore 128 D, the 220 volt version. >>Could someone please tell me a) how to convert the PSU (no switch) >>or b) how to hook up a normal PC PSU. > >Is this by any chance the same power supply used by the C-128, A-500, >A-600, A-1200? I know that for these systems the best powersupply is the >one that came with the A500 as it has the highest wattage. > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

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Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D)

by roblwill＠usaor.net

One RGB monitor that I have is a Magnavox Professional. It has composite input, RGB input, and another input that I don't have the cable for. I like it because it also is capable of displaying Monochrome (green) display in either CGA/RGB, Composite, or Monochrome mode. I think the third connector is to connect it to a Hercules card, but I don't have the cable (not the same as RGB cable. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Phil Beesley <PB14(a)leicester.ac.uk> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Classic Computer Essentials (was C128D) > Date: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 8:10 AM > > On 16 Sep 98 at 1:42, Tony Duell wrote: > > > How about a list of useful things for classic computer collectors, even > > for those who don't want to get involved with repair. I'd start with the > > following... Feel free to add things > > > > A transformer to convert your local mains into the 'other' standard. I.e. > > a 110V step-down transformer for the UK, a 220V step-up transformer for > > the states. > > > > A composite monochrome monitor, capable of working with UK and US TV > > standards (almost all will do that). > > > > An analogue RGB colour monitor, TV scan rates > > The analogue RGB monitor is an essential but getting one that runs at > TV scan rates is getting difficult. I was lucky enough to find a > Microvitec badged NEC Multisync (digital and analog inputs) that > seems to display almost anything. However it's now more than ten > years old and starting to display its age. These types of display are > snapped up by the Amiga enthusiasts so what are the alternatives? > Does anyone know the signal requirements for the "new" desktop flat > screen displays? > > Phil > > > > ************************************************************** > Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport > University of Leicester > > Tel (0)116 252-2231 > E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk

27 years, 10 months

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C128D

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

You don't have the schematics for this anywhere? The PSU is separate and it looks like I could plug in a PC power supply if I knew pinout. As for useful things, I would also suggest an older model printer, a 5.25" drive, and, if possible, an 8" drive. Then, I would say a VOM is obligatory either way. > >This is rapidly becoming a FAQ here - how to convert between 110V and >220V mains. > >By far the easiest and safest way is to use a step-up transformer. It >doesn't need to be an isolating transformer - an autotransformer is fine. >You feed 110V in and get 220V out. Since 240V -> 110V transformers are >fairly common in the UK, I would guess you can get the reverse in the States. > >If you can't find a suitable transformer, then there's a sort-of kludge >that works, but you need to take a little care when wiring it up. > >Get a mains transformer with _2_ 115V (or thereabouts) primary windings. >Such transformers are fairly common, since by connecting the primaries in >parallel you can use them in the States, and by connecting them is series >(230V) you can use them in Europe. It doesn't matter what the secondaries >are, as you're not going to use them. > >Connect the windings in series, like you would for 230V mains. Connect >the output across the 2 windings. Connect the 115V mains across one of >them. In effect you're using the primaries as an autotransformer. > >The power rating of the transformer that you use should be about twice >that of the computer you want to run. That gives a reasonable safety margin. > >Another way, which should be safe, but which for some odd reason is >against the US electrical code is to connect the 220V unit to a 220V US >outlet - the sort of thing you plug an air conditioner or whatever into. > >It may be possible to modify the PSU. If it uses an iron-core 50Hz/60Hz >transformer, then look to see if there are 2 primaries wired in series >for 220V mains. Connect them in parallel for 110V mains - taking care to >get the relative polarity correct. I'll not give any more details, >because it really depends on the PSU design what you should do. > >For a switcher, the input circuit is often a bridge rectifier for 230V >mains. If you can convert this to a voltage doubler, and if there's no >line-frequency transformer for a start-up supply, then it should work. > >A lot of switchers have 2 smoothing capacitors in series - look for 2 >large capacitors of about 470uF at 200V. Connecting the centre-tap of >these to one side of the mains (after the switch/fuse/filter) will do it. >Often there's a link on the PCB (marked 'link for 115V' or something like >that) for this purpose. Again, knowing how PSUs work is a great help here. > >But I'd recomend the step-up transformer in your case. It avoids >modification, and it's safe. > >How about a list of useful things for classic computer collectors, even >for those who don't want to get involved with repair. I'd start with the >following... Feel free to add things > >A transformer to convert your local mains into the 'other' standard. I.e. >a 110V step-down transformer for the UK, a 220V step-up transformer for >the states. > >A composite monochrome monitor, capable of working with UK and US TV >standards (almost all will do that). > >An analogue RGB colour monitor, TV scan rates > >A dumb terminal (or a PC + terminal emulator program) > >One of those RS232 quicktesters with red/green LEDs. (I use mine more >than my Tektronix datacomms analyser) > >An assortment of cables. In particular IEC mains leads (like PC mains >leads), RS232 cables (straight and null-modem), video cables (RCA - RCA, >BNC, PL259, etc) > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

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Rainbows and S/W for sale.

by mtapley＠swri.edu

All, spotted this on the comp.sys.dec.micro newsgroup. Please reply to him, not me. I love my Rainbow but don't know anything about his :-) Also, you probably should check out ftp.update.uu.se in the /pub/rainbow directory to see whether there's anything there that might suit your Rainbow software needs better. Or check it out to see what a wonderful variety of reasons there is to get a Rainbow! - Mark vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv Path: Supernews70!SupernewsNP!Supernews73!supernews.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.r cn.net!rcn!news-xfer.netaxs.com!feed.centuryinter.net!not-for-mail From: aljohnson(a)centuryinter.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.sys.dec.micro Subject: FS: Misc DEC Software for DEC rainbow and Hardware Date: Wed, 16 Sep 98 04:52:05 GMT Organization: CENTURYinter.net Lines: 9 Message-ID: <N.091598.235205.05(a)ppp093.av.centuryinter.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp093.av.centuryinter.net X-Newsreader: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00] Xref: Supernews70 comp.sys.dec:67074 comp.sys.dec.micro:9067 I have misc software including wordprocessing, multiplan, operating stuff for dec rainbows and similar machines. Have several rainbow machines and some cables. Parting out all of it CHEAP. Software a buck a box, Hardware a buck a part. Most but not all software is still in plastic. Got to get rid of it. Please email with any question. Allen ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

27 years, 10 months

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Lisa floppy problems

by Marion.Bates＠Dartmouth.EDU

--- Eric Smith wrote: Marion.Bates(a)Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) wrote: > As far as I know, it is the same in almost all respects, right down = > to the model number. But, the Lisa version supports the Lisa's = > auto-eject feature when shutting down from the front button, = > whereas the Mac version does not. No, they are in fact identical, and have auto-eject. The eject when the white "power" button on the Lisa is pressed is done by software; the button doesn't really have anything to do with the power supply. Eric --- end of quote --- I asked David Craig about this, and here's what he had to say: "Concerning your recent question about the differences between the Mac and Lisa 400k drives as pertaining to auto eject at machine shutdown, my understanding is the Lisa drive has extra circuitry to detect when its power is turned off and it then auto ejects the floppy. The Mac drive does not have this extra circuitry and therefore does not auto eject a floppy by itself. The Mac floppy ejection is controlled by the system software. See Sun's Lisa repair manual which talks about this feature. FWIW, the Lisa drive being smarter does not suprise me since the Lisa hardware philosophy was to have specific components handle specific tasks. That's why the Lisa twiggy drives were smart and did stuff like formatting whereas the Mac handles everything about the disk. The Lisa's keyboard was also smart and had its own chip to control it -- COPS, control oriented processing system." -- MB

27 years, 10 months

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