- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au

At 07:21 PM 21-09-98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: >Excellent idea! That's part of the reason to choose Java :-) Sun's Java >compiler is written in Java, and generates code for the Java virtual >machine. Most of the Java runtime environment is also written in Java, >except for the machine-level glue which is written in a combo of C and >assembler. I guess the only difference is that BCPL is significantly smaller and simpler. I doubt that I could move Java to a new environment within a week, whereas I'd be confident that anyone with some simple programming skills could move BCPL, even with the limited documentation that exists. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"

27 years, 10 months

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x86 junk, AT/370 boards, etc. (was Re: printer socket (Off topic))

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The AS/400 for example, is a non-micro. The problem, I guess, is that < when the computer market got a life of its own and was no longer < paid for by the government, PHBs didn't see the beauty of an 8-opcode ????? the government did make a few interesting machines but the bulk of them from Univac on were the result of private industry trying to make the better mouse trap. having played with a minuteman missle computer (you could get them surplus in the early '70s). I can say they are interesting for their day and hard as hell to program usefully as they were not innovative. < machine that had been developed for 10 years. And as long as computers < are commercial, we'll see much less of this 'interesting' stuff. < Maybe if Transmeta comes out with something, it will be interesting There are a lot of intresting machine of very current design that while not part of the converstation here as classics the cpus are none the less interesting even though they are neither PC or pc. Allison

27 years, 10 months

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Quantum Q540 as a RD52

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<It does this for each of the drives. The drives "sound good" for what i < worth. Is there some special trick to getting a Q540 to act like a RD52 < does the VS2000 have a dislike for RD52's, or (my personal suspicion) i < the drive simply dead. ok, Quantum DQ540s are RD52... no difference, as I have RD52s and guess what they also say on the outside. Also the QD540 is about as reliable a drive as you can find. VS2000 likes the following: 20mb Seagate St225 40mb Seagate ST251 31mb Quantum QD540 71mb Micropolus 1325 159mb Maxtor 2190 series Now if the drive is incorrectly jumpered it will not work. If it's been formatted on say a PC the format mode of the VS2000 may not work as expected. Meaning you have to fill in the values manually. Allison

27 years, 10 months

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x86 junk, AT/370 boards, etc. (was Re: printer socket (Off topic))

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I'm sure that the problem is that earlier, you had a different concept of interesting machines. I don't think minis and workstations were ever very common at hamfests, compared to common micros. I don't think PCs are bringing an end to classic computing; sooner or later, all PDPs and VAXen and IMSAIs will be in the hands of collectors. In the meantime, some interesting machines are still being made. The AS/400 for example, is a non-micro. The problem, I guess, is that when the computer market got a life of its own and was no longer paid for by the government, PHBs didn't see the beauty of an 8-opcode machine that had been developed for 10 years. And as long as computers are commercial, we'll see much less of this 'interesting' stuff. Maybe if Transmeta comes out with something, it will be interesting 10 years from the release. Then again, it might be another WinChip... >upon pile of motherboards, I/O cards, VGA cards, etc on sale. And very >few 'interesting' machines. > Did Compaq document their machines well? > >Actually, I do tend to buy genuine IBM cards, especially if they're >described in the TechRefs. A lot of them did 'set the standard' for what >followed, and although poorly designed certainly have a place in the >history of computing. > >[AT/370] > >> Too bad no technical docs were ever available, it would be fun to port >> Linux to them. > >YEs, I've never managed to trace a TechRef for them, alas... > >> > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

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printer socket (Off topic)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Well, if someone doesn't want to run a microsoft OS, does that mean they don't want any version of DOS because they think DOS sucks? CP/M doesn't suck any more or any less, IMHO. Maybe a bit more >< various UNIXoids. I'd rather run DOS in that particular case. > >You neglect CP/M-86 and CCPM. Also MINIX (unix like) and a few other more >obscure OSs. > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

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Quantum Q540 as a RD52

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

I picked up 5 Quantum Q540's yesterday in the hope of being able to get some usable diskspace for one of my PDP-11's. These are the same as a RD52 >from what I've been able to find out. I stick one of the drives in my VS2000 and try to format it with the following results: >>> T 70 KA410-A RDRXfmt VSfmt_QUE_unitno (0-2) ? 0 VSfmt_STS_Siz .?? VSfmt_RES_ERR #2 84 FAIL It does this for each of the drives. The drives "sound good" for what it's worth. Is there some special trick to getting a Q540 to act like a RD52, does the VS2000 have a dislike for RD52's, or (my personal suspicion) is the drive simply dead. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

27 years, 10 months

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EDSAC on your desk.

by CLASSICCMP＠timaxp.trailing-edge.com

Someone wrote: >> Java is the closest thing we've got today to an architecture-neutral >> executable environment. Except for the fact that it pretty much requires that IEEE floating point be used. Yes, Virginia, there are lots of machines out there that don't do IEEE math! And there are many good reasons to *not* use IEEE floating point. William Donzelli pointed out: > C is well established, Java is not. True, but C itself if far from portable. The endless maze of #ifdef's that are necessary to make a piece of source code portable among a limited set of machines and OS's are fine and dandy unless you have to support all those different permutations! > People keep worrying about what the > different companies will do to extend or change Java. When Java gets to be > a truely standard, then I might say OK. Part of the problem is that folks are already using Java in ways that are not portable. It's almost as bad as those web pages that come up and *insist* that you change your graphics mode to 640x480 or some other particular size - why do folks insist on starting with a nice general information-based document standard and then turn it into a nonportable one???!!! At least, in my experience, any page that insists on being viewed at some particular resolution inevitably has absolutely zero information content, so I don't want to view it anyway. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

27 years, 10 months

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printer socket (Off topic)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Well, I don't know of any OS that runs on an XT besides DOS and < various UNIXoids. I'd rather run DOS in that particular case. You neglect CP/M-86 and CCPM. Also MINIX (unix like) and a few other more obscure OSs. Allison

27 years, 10 months

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"bblish" Altair fails to sell on eBay AGAIN

by WHoagIII＠aol.com

If you read his text he has a reserve of $6000. Pax

27 years, 10 months

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"bblish" Altair fails to sell on eBay AGAIN

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

This is at LEAST the third time he's listed that Altair 8800 on eBay, and it failed to sell AGAIN, this time topping out at a "mere" $2225. Has anybody exchanged email with him? What the hell is this guy doing? Kai

27 years, 10 months

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printer socket (Off topic)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Well, I don't know of any OS that runs on an XT besides DOS and various UNIXoids. I'd rather run DOS in that particular case. >were running MS-DOS when I worked there back in 90-91. Possibly >not the best way to run the gear (is MS-DOS _ever_ the best way to >run the gear?) but functional. Don't recall any '486 NGENs -- I >was working with the Unisys 6000 series mostly, didn't actually >_use_ any NGENs myself, but did use several old (left over from the >AT&T contract) Unix PCs as my consoles for the machines I was doing >software QA on. The '486 was fairly new at the time, I'd been given >to understand that NGEN was a dead series then -- pretty machines >that they were. >-- >Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/> > >When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any >firearms with me. I said "Well, what do you need?" -- Steven Wright > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

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x86 junk, AT/370 boards, etc. (was Re: printer socket (Off topic))

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Well, I feel the same way about Apples. I mean, I find Apple IIs as boring as any PC XT. And both are quite common. I sometimes find various PC clone models interesting, but not very. But about these 370 cards, am I to understand they're normal PCs that can also act like 370s? >You're right! I should have paid more attention to the NAQ list. >I guess there's simply no refuge from x86 PCs; they invade every newsgroup >and mailing list. Not to mention surplus stores; it's getting very hard >to find anything interesting because the places are completely overrun >with PC crap. As if anyone really wants huge piles of off-brand EGA cards >(or any EGA cards), ARCnet cards, etc. Sigh. > >The only halfway interesting PC-based hardware I've ever found surplus are >the XT/370 and AT/370 board sets, and I've never gotten the software for >them. If anyone wants them, though, I think Timeline is still advertising >them. Be forewarned, however, that they are mapped to the 512K-640K >memory address range, so they won't work unless you have a motherboard that >can be configured to NOT provide memory in that range. > >These boards contained three processors, a custom-microcoded 68000 variant >to implement the core 370 instruction set, a standard 68000 to implement >the instructions that wouldn't fit in the microcode of the first one, and >a custom version of the 8087 hacked to do IBM radix-16 floating point >instead of IEEE. > >Too bad no technical docs were ever available, it would be fun to port >Linux to them. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

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printer socket (Off topic)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

ELKS worked more or less last time I checked it. I think Minix is a lot better for the purpose, though. I've seen several attempts at UNIX for the Commodore, but never tried them. are they anything like UNIX, or just demo UNIX look-alikes? (The difference is that when you type ls on one, it executes assembly or C code, and when you do it on the other, it has a bit of code: 300 IF A$ = "ls" THEN LOAD "$",8,1 ) >On this list, "classic" means 10 years old or older, for the most part. >The 386 already qualifies. However, there is a project (stalled?) to get >Linux running on some older 8-bitters: > http://www.linux.org.uk/ELKS-Home/index.html > >-- Doug > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

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Linux on S/370? Was: Re: printer socket (Off topic)

by cfandt＠servtech.com

At 01:16 21-09-98 -0400, you wrote: >> Anybody know where I can get an IBM 360/30? > >No. And I would _seriously_ drive across the country to get any S/360 or >370. Maybe even for an S/3 or S/7. Can't agree more with you on that William! > >> It would be fun to port Linux >> to that, although the lack of paging would be a bit of a problem. One of >> the cool things about the 360/30 is that you can alter the microcode using >> a standard keypuch machine. > >A real problem, I would say. The Model 30s were just about the runts of >the family, and could only have 8 to 64 K of storage. > >I would think that putting Linux on an S/370 would be just a bit easier, >but still cool enough to matter (circa 1974!). But I think there are less >S/370s out there than S/360s (I know of _one_ S/370, and it belongs to >IBM. S/360s, at least, number more than 10, probably). Less S/370s out there? I would think, since they are more recent vintage, there would be more. Any reason why? I'll keep my eyes peeled for you though. > >And by S/370, I mean _real_ S/370, with the cool panels. Not the beige >boxes IBM made in late 1970s, dropping the S/370 name. Yeah, even my beige box 9370 is boring as heck to look at :-( (It's a CMOS version of the S/370 from 1987/88.) No interesting front panels, can't tinker with hardware much at all, etc. Pah! Later this winter, William, I'll be trying to get the bugs worked out of that thing as to IPL failures. I still have to move it over from the old house to its new home in a nicely remodeled basement workarea. It'll set beside the PDP-11 racks I still need to haul outta the garage before winter. All this stuff is _heavy_. Oh, my sore back! Anyway, O Honorable Listmembers, stand by for a request from me for VSE OS documentation of any sort and perhaps some IPL troubleshooting. --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

27 years, 10 months

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EDSAC on your desk.

by CLASSICCMP＠timaxp.trailing-edge.com

Dominique Cormann wrote: >William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net> wrote: >> > BASIC RULES! >> >> What are the BASIC rules? >Did they ever create a standard version of Basic like there is for C >(ansi c)? Yes, there are at least two ANSI standards, and one maybe-never-quite- adopted ANSI working committee standard: ANSI X3.60-1978, _American National Standard for the Programming Language Minimal Basic_. This is a *very* minimal basic, lacking things like strings and files. ANSI X3J2 working committee BASIC. AFAIK this was never officially adopted as an ANSI standard, despite the fact that the committee must've worked on it for over a decade. In _BYTE_ 1982:6 p182, you'll find Thomas Kurtz (yes, *the* Kurtz of Dartmouth) describing the draft standard as it then existed, and he actually sold a working version of this called "True BASIC". It does things in very different ways from just about every other BASIC (the string syntax is entirely different, looking more like Fortran-77 style character-addressable strings, and the math is actually *decimal* math!) ANSI X3.113-1987 "Full BASIC". I believe this to be the standard that the X3J2 committee eventually settled on. Penware's NKR BASIC claims to be an implementation of this standard, though I've never actually seen it in use. Bywater BASIC (by Ted Campbell, and often implemented on Unix-type machines by the executable "bwbasic") claims to be a superset of X3.60-1978 and a subset of X3.113-1987. It's available under the terms of the Gnu Public License. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

27 years, 10 months

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Help with Lisa 2 vertical hold

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Does anybody know how to adjust the vertical hold on a Lisa 2? thanks Kai

27 years, 10 months

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EDSAC on your desk.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< As a software geek, C is quite portable, as long as you keep several < things in mind, like shorts are at least 16 bits, longs are at least 32 < bits, ints are at least 16 bits and can't be longer than a long, and don < use functions not defined in the Standard C library (or stuff you've < written). Those things are or should be a given for any language. The problem in all cases is when you talk to hardware, soon as you do that portability is likely broken. This has always been true and until hardware is reduced to one uniform platform (gag!). That is unlikely. < > It's almost as bad as those web pages that come up < > and *insist* that you change your graphics mode to 640x480 or < > some other particular size - why do folks insist on starting with a < > nice general information-based document standard and then turn it int < > a nonportable one???!!! See hardware and portability. Allison

27 years, 10 months

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Kids these days

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 09:32 PM 9/18/98 -0500, you wrote: > >I thought of doing two of those, put wheels on the steppers, use two to >push it around in various directions, mount a pair plastic replicas of >table-saw blades on the drive motors Sounds like my friends who build robots for the Bay area "robot wars" competitions. They do incorporate truly deadly weapons in their remote-control 'bots, including spinning saw blades. - John

27 years, 10 months

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wierd stuff/spam

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

Gang, some jerk is trying to use my site as a spam relay. If you get ANYTHING coming from litterbox.com that looks like a sex add please let me know and accept my humble apology. We've found where the attack is coming from and have sent e-mail to their hostmaster. -- Jim Strickland jim(a)calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? -----------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 10 months

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removal help

by info＠annalee.com

Please sent me information about how to be removed for this list serve. Thank you.

27 years, 10 months

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Chuck Peddle?

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 05:01 PM 9/19/98 -0700, Sam wrote: > >Rumor has it that Chuck Peddle of 6502 and Commodore PET fame will be >found walking the halls of VCF 2.0. So you found him? Who won your contest for the VCF lifetime pass? - John

27 years, 10 months

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CLASSICCMP digest 539

by mtapley＠swri.edu

All, Another announcement of possibly useful stuff on comp.sys.dec.micro. Contact him not me and I can't vouch for him. - Mark vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv Path: Supernews70!SupernewsNP!Supernews73!supernews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news- hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail From: fonzo(a)mindspring.com (Don Dalfonzo) Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro Subject: manuals Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 03:17:33 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 7 Message-ID: <360321ef.696121(a)news.mindspring.com> Reply-To: fonzo(a)mindspring.com NNTP-Posting-Host: user-38lc6s9.dialup.mindspring.com X-Server-Date: 19 Sep 1998 03:13:42 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Xref: Supernews70 comp.sys.dec.micro:9088 Anyone interested in unused(shrinkwrapped) ultrix manuals - 4.6 I believe.. let me know before I dump them... also some uniplex manuals. Complete set of both ..... Don or email fonzo(a)mindspring.com ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

27 years, 10 months

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EDSAC on your desk.

by Bob.Withers＠MCI.com

True Basic is the name of the version of the language published by Professor's Kemeny and Kurtz, the inventors of the language. As far as I know the Basic language has not been standardized by ANSI, ISO, or any other standards organization. Can you provide more information? Bob > On 21 Sep 98, at 9:55, Dominique Cormann wrote: > > > Did they ever create a standard version of Basic like there is for C > > (ansi c)? > > Yes, there is an ANSI BASIC standard. There is a version out for > the PC (and the Mac I believe) called True BASIC which is ANSI > standard. I'm sure there were others too. > > > ----- > David Williams - Computer Packrat > dlw(a)trailingedge.com > http://www.trailingedge.com

27 years, 10 months

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Help: IBM 5170

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I believe you can download the 80286 (AT) setup program from IBM's web site. Last year I downloaded the POS setup diskette for the PS/2 60. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Help: IBM 5170 Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 9/19/98 8:13 PM > > Recently I bought 2 IBM 5170's (PC/AT) for 6 bucks. I bought these > machines to add to my collection. Both of them say this when I boot up: > "162 - System Options Not Set - (Run SETUP)" That normally means that something has changed since the CMOS RAM was configured. > Both of them have a 512k System board. One only shows 256K of memory > during memory test and the other one shows 512K but has a parity error. Which version of the system board do you have? The older one has 36 RAM chips, each one being a 128K*1 device (actually made from 2 DIPs soldered together). The later one has 18 256K*1 bit devices on it. I have schematics, etc for both boards. The partiy error sounds like a RAM chip failing. Try reseating them, and if it's the later version, try replacing the RAMs one at a time with known-good ones. 256K*1 DRAMs are pretty easy to get, and the ones on the system board are socketed. > Is there any dip switches on the motherboard, and is SETUP a software There are 2 switch-things on the system board (unless you count the little 8-pin DIP postion behind the expansion slots that can be used to fiddle with the ROM addressing). One is a slide switch next to the power connector. In one position the board is set up for an MDA display. The other way for a CGA one. I can't remember which is which, but if you get it wrong, all that happens is that it fails the POST and beeps. Flip the switch and try again. The other is a jumper (J18) to the left of the speaker connector at the front). This selects between 256K and 512K for RAM on the system board. Check this is set the same way on both your boards. > program? Yes, SETUP is the program used to load the parameters into the CMOS RAM. Unlike most modern PCs, this is not in ROM, but has to be loaded from disk. There's a free clone (with source, I think) on Simtel somewhere. If the parameters have got scrambled, then about the only thing it can boot from is a 5.25" drive as A: -tony ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Sep19.201355.1767.64448; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:13:56 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id RAA09277; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:11:47 -0700 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id RAA38476 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:11:43 -0700 Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id RAA19737 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:11:42 -0700 Received: from [158.152.97.199] (helo=p850ug1) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.03 #1) id 0zKX6I-0004Rb-00 for classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 00:11:39 +0000 Received: by p850ug1 id <m0zKWvk-000IyMC@p850ug1> (Debian /\oo/\ Smail3.1.29.1 #29.33); Sun, 20 Sep 98 01:00 BST Message-Id: <m0zKWvk-000IyMC@p850ug1> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 01:00:40 +0100 (BST) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Help: IBM 5170 In-Reply-To: <36043755.4B34(a)bright.net> from "oajones" at Sep 19, 98 06:59:33 pm Content-Type: text X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 10 months

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printer socket (Off topic)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> classic -- please give us examples of '86 boxen that _can't_ run an > MS OS. And tell us how those are more "classic" than an XT. Many of the 8088/8086 and x86 powered s100 crate were not native MSdos. Many of them were CPM or Turbodos. Allison

27 years, 10 months

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Need docs for Dynabyte 16K Static RAM (S-100)

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Anyone have the docs for the Dynabyte 16K Static RAM handy? I need to know what each switch in the configuration blocks are for. I might be able to figure it out from the system I have set up but it'd be nice to know exactly what they all do. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/12/98]

27 years, 10 months

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uVAX II sleeping...

by jpl15＠netcom.com

sleeeping.....sleeeping... sleeping in a Jar (the Jar is under the bed) [sorry... had a Zappa flashback just then. Please disregard.] Ahem. Encouraged by the success of my more recent uVAX resurrection, I this evening powered up another one I have had for some time. It doesn't do much. So I have some questions re: uVAX autism. First off.. am I making a semantic error? The exact wording on the badgeplate of the 'good' machine reads 'VAXSTATION II/RC' and the dead one reads just 'VAXSTATION II'... all this time I have been refering to them as 'MicroVaxes'. Dumb? Irrelevant? Crucial? The VMS manual that I have (Thank you Bruce L. !!) seems to correspond with the sofware as extant on GoodMachine. DeadMachine is configured (externally) just the same as GM, ie. all the switches and controls are at the same settings. I am using a Decwriter III as the console, to have hardcopy. Upon power-up, the LED display on the back shows 'A'. The fixed disk, a Micropolis RD53-A, spins up and coasts down continuously. Cycling 'HALT' on the front panel causes the usual 'break' monitor printout and the pc state. The LED displays '8' and that's it... I have let it go for 10 minutes.... I have checked the power supply voltages.. all nominal. I have power-cycled the unit a few times.. same behavior. I have re-seated the CPU and MEM cards.. no change. In the absense of the System User Guides / Operating Manual / Processor Handbooks.. I am stuck here. I remember a thread on the disk drive's spin up/down routine, but I forgot the cause. I will gladly pay for some more docs for these machines.. any spare MicroVax Orange Notebooks out there?? Thanks in advance for any Info... Cheers John

27 years, 10 months

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Kids these days

by roblwill＠usaor.net

> Can I recomend that you grab the parallel port FAQ off the web. Those > printer ports are really 12 output lines and 4 input lines each. You can > do all sorts of neat stuff with those. Like _directly_ control the > stepper motors (or use some simple stepper control ICs). Hook up > switches/sensors. You can do that from BASIC, but I think you have to be > running MS-DOS and not Windows (cetainly not 95 or NT), since that tends > to get in the way of direct port access. > That's not a problem. I'm using a Tandy 1000TX running DOS 3.2, and GW-BASIC 3.11 > Using the electronics from the printer, faking it so it thinks it's still > connected to a printer, and the using the motors seems a rather complex > way to do it, actually. Maybe. I'm just trying to get something to work, first, then I'll improve it and make it easier to use after it works. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318

27 years, 10 months

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OOOpps, sorry!

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Yup. Can't read my own scrawly handwriting. EDSAC Simulator: www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~edsac Possible Bart Simpson blackboard punishment writing: I will not post screwed-up URLs I will not post screwed-up URLs I will not post screwed-up URLs I will not....... Again... my apologies to those who got treated to error messages when all they wanted was some antique Fun. Sheeeshhhh!! John

27 years, 10 months

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Windows 3.0 on 8088?

by mbg＠world.std.com

Oh, that is a problem... the system does not have a hard disk... so much for that idea... Megan

27 years, 10 months

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Hewlett Packard 9835B

by apulo＠joyce.eng.yale.eduop

We picked one up at the MIT flea today. Anyone know much about it? It seems to be working. Tony

27 years, 10 months

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Windows 3.0 on 8088?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< That means I could run it on my IBM PC Convertible. Is this true? < < Megan Yes it would. You do need a hard disk as the install kit is some 5 disks. plus dos. Allison

27 years, 10 months

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new interesting addition

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> since im known at work as a packrat of old computer junk, someone gave > something called a microsoft <!> mach 20. turns out it's a full length > card that has a 286-8 and 2 meg and high density floppy controller on I also have a card something like that. INBOARD386PC (I have it box and all!), it goes in a XT class machine and gives you a 386sx/16 with 1mb ram. I use it in a leading edge model D to make a nice fast sorta turbo-xt. I've run win3.1 on it but with 1mb of ram it's real pokey and some apps can't eb run. It's limitation is that the board only has 1mb of ram. I'm on the lookout for a matching memory card. There were two different piggyback memory cards 2mb and 4mb. also anyone have a slow (16mhz) 387math co processor (PGA package)? Allison

27 years, 10 months

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To Tony Dellett

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Tony, Send me your REAL address and I'll send the info that I promised. Joe At 06:23 PM 9/20/98 -0400, you wrote: >This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason: > >Your message was not delivered because the DNS records for the >destination computer could not be found. Carefully check that >the address was spelled correctly, and try sending it again if >there were any mistakes. > >It is also possible that a network problem caused this situation, >so if you are sure the address is correct you might want to try to >send it again. If the problem continues, contact your friendly >system administrator. > > Host joyce.eng.yale.eduop not found > >The following recipients did not receive this message: > > <apulo(a)joyce.eng.yale.eduop> > >Please reply to Postmaster(a)star1.intellistar.net >if you feel this message to be in error. >Received: from lizard ([206.105.68.165]) by star1.intellistar.net > (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-41809U2500L250S0) > with SMTP id AAF29927 for <apulo(a)joyce.eng.yale.eduop>; > Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:23:37 -0400 >Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980920182409.39d700ae(a)intellistar.net> >X-Sender: rigdonj(a)intellistar.net >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) >Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:24:09 >To: Tony Dellett <apulo(a)joyce.eng.yale.eduop> >From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> >Subject: Re: Hewlett Packard 9835B >In-Reply-To: <36053879.A58B1548(a)joyce.eng.yale.eduop> >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Tony, > >

27 years, 10 months

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Kids these days

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Tony Duell wrote: < > As somebody else pointed out, you're not going to be running < > Windows on an 8088 < < Are you certain? I thought I saw Windows 1.0 run on XTs? < < Not that anyone in their right mind would have wanted to run Windows 1.0 < but that's an entirely different issue. I have a copy of win3.0 that runs just fine (ok slow) on 8088s. Allison

27 years, 10 months

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Micro jumper blocks

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Wasn't it Manney that was looking for micro (not mini) jumper blocks for a HD a while back? He never got back with me on that or the IEE488 card and I haven't seen any posts from him of late. I have some if he wnats them, just drop me a note by reg. email. ___________________________________________________ Russ Blakeman, aka "Pooter Fixer" Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.xoom.com/pooterfixer/ ___________________________________________________

27 years, 10 months

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Does Bill Gates know how to program?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I believe his last program was in 1986 for a Tandy machine. He's been strictly buisness after that >I've got a question I've been meaning to ask for a long time. Does Bill >Gates know how to program? If my memory serves me correct he knew how to >progam in BASIC back in the late 70's, his buddy Paul Allen knew machine >language. >-- >Computing since 1982, VIC-20, CoCo, PC, CP/M >Amateur Radio since 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI >http://www.bright.net/~oajones >Rev. O. Alan Jones > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

10
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New? Find

by franke＠sbs.de

>>> Woha. Dont open. At least that what's I would do >>> (especialy since my Apple /// was stolen 2 weeks ago :(). >>> Try to get a second one. > Who stole your Apple ///? Who ? I guess some bad guys. > And under what circumstances?? They opened the basement dor on the backside of the house, and worked their way up into the computer rooms. >> To late, already openned it. I never really had any intention of >> leaving it wrapped. I bought it that way because I knew everything >> would be there and I wanted to use it in my Apple ///. BTW, sorry >> to hear about your Apple ///. Hope they didn't get anything else. >> That has always worried me. Anyone breaking in wouldn't know >> what this stuff really was and would think they just found >> something that would get them thousands at the pawn shop. > Well, if your Altair was stolen and the pawn shop owner hung out on the > computer sections of eBay, then it might actually be worth thousands at > the pawn shop :) Its exacte wat I think hapened - the APPLE /// (no plus!) was the most prominent device on the big table. I think he was the only thing close to a PC in their eyes (An APPLE // 'tower' with two Profile Harddisks, Monitor /// and an external Disk /// drive). I think it will be sold on some kind of fleamarket. They also destroyed some stuff, opened two originaly packed Atari 400, trashed an Enterprise. They also took a prototype BTX telephone unit an various small stuff - including almost all of my C64 and VC20 cartridges. Also one of the PETs is gone (an ordinary 4016) and, thats the funiest thing, the CRT of a Sirus - only the CRT the computer and the stand is still available. I'm very happy that they didn't know what was laying in front of them - they took none of the KIMs or the other ols single boarders, non of the real devices like SWTP or Heatkit. My problem is that I should monitor now all major flea markts, but I'm leaving for the VCF this saturday :( Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 10 months

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Does Bill Gates know how to program?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Hmmm...a BROTHER running GEOS, by any chance? > >> Doug Yowza wrote: >> > >> > On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: >> > >> > > That is what has been reported. There used to be a link to an >> > > interview with Gates on the subject, but a fresh look through my >> > > various Model 100 bookmarks fails to turn it up, though I read it >> > > not much over a year ago. >> > >> > http://innovate.si.edu/history/gates/gates35.htm >> > >> > -- Doug > >This machine is one of my favorites (Model 100), in fact I use it quite >often..Very Cool the fact it runs on 4 AA batteries, and at that for many >hours.. >It has no need for storage, it holds it all in its own memory. I have >several applications >I use it for that I wrote in basic. >That was an interesting article, to know that Bill Gates had a major hand in > >writing the code for this machine.. The Radio Shack Model 100 is defiantly a >very cool >machine.. >BTW: I was at Service Merchandise the other day and they had a similar >machine running >a GUI based software (Not Windows SE) , but it had the same concept as the >Model 100, >but with a GUI, No floppy drive, just memory storage, and a serial plug to >Up load the data.. >It was not a pocket type, but a lap top size computer. Priced at $299.00 >(Very Cheap).. >Price was so inexpensive bacause of no Hard Drive or Floppy, >No Color either but very good VGA type monochrome graphs and text.. >A great machine for simple applications like WP and spreadsheets >--Phil > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

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CP/M definition

by CLASSICCMP＠timaxp.trailing-edge.com

>I think trying to decide on a canonical definition of what >CP/M stands for is futile -- since DR were themeselves inconsistent over >time. Even the name of the company changed over time. Don't forget Digital Research Intergalactic! Tim.

27 years, 10 months

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Books for DEC-heads

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< They won't last more than 20 years, sorry :) Depends. The older ones may not, the later one are on far better paper though still not low acid. That change started in the early 80s. My introduction to programming 1972 is still doing well considering the newsprint it's on. < Seriously, all the DEC processor and programming paperbacks I've come < accross are printed on highly acidic paper, almost newsprint quality. < They can be de-acidified, if it's not too late. Check by gently None the less if it's a thing your serious about preserving then proceed. Allison

27 years, 10 months

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Transformer

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I looked in Radio Shack, at some step-down transformers for 'traveling abroad'. There is a price range, with some 'for heating appliances only' (the cheapest) and the higher priced ones allow motors, and the $34 ones allow electronic devices. What is the difference among these units? Also, could a transformer such as in these theoretically be reversed and used for step-up purposes? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

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Kids these days

by roblwill＠usaor.net

> I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about the fun the nerdy kids these > days could be having if they discovered classic computers. > Hey - I'm one of 'em. I've got an old drafting table in my basement covered (and full of) obsolete (286 and older) computer stuff. It's also scattered various places in my house. > Actually, there is one kid I've been talking to in e-mail (although he's > 19 now so "kid" may not be appropriate anymore). He built some sort of > digital logic contraption with relays out of an old elevator controller! > It sounds wild. He said it can do actual useful work, such as image > processing. I don't know the total details, but I'm trying to get him to > exhibit it at the Vintage Computer Festival. He said its very large and > would be a burden to move, but I'm trying to figure out a way to help him > get it to the venue. That sort of project should inspire many people > around his age to embark on similar projects of their own. > I'm only 15... I had a few plans for a few things, but the only problem is that I need to find an EPROM programmer and some old chips. Any idea where to get one - cheap?? ThAnX, -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318

27 years, 10 months

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Re.: Does Bill Gates know how to program?

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Sat, 19 Sep 1998 12:56:06 PDT, "Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>I believe his last program was in 1986 for a Tandy machine. He's been >>strictly buisness after that. Didn't Gates work on the BASIC on the Model 100? At the risk of a flame war...I think that Gates walks a razor-thin line between really aggressive and monopolistic. No question, he and Microsoft are successful, through a combination of luck, brass balls, and the paranoid fear of being technologically overtaken by another technology company. I also think that a portion of Microsoft's problems today can be attributed to sour grapes by some of the competition, fueled by books and articles in recent years which showcase Gates' incredible wealth and Microsoft's amazing success. Now, back to our regularly-scheduled program... The earliest programming example comes from "Gates" by Stephen Manes and Paul Andrews. Gates and Allen worked on an 8080 emulator on Aiken Lab's (Harvard) PDP10s during the winter '75 break. The Altair Basic command set was lifted from DEC's RSTS-11 Basic-Plus, which Gates considered elegant. The simulator code was dated 2/9/75. "Programmers at Work" by Susan Lammers quotes Gates as saying that there wasn't a program at Microsoft (at the time; the book is (c) 1986, 1989) in which he was not involved. Microsoft's Basic interpreter products are attributed to Gates, as is the work on the Model 100. At the time, Microsoft had 160 programmers, and Gates was intimately involved in the code review process, noting that there wasn't a piece of code which he didn't read. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 10 months

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Re.: CP/M Definition

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Contrtol Program for Microcomputers according to Digital Research ads in early Byte magazines. >>This is from the CP/M FAQ: >>Q3: Does CP/M stand for anything? >>A: (Don Kirkpatrick) {snip} Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 10 months

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CP/M definition

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Sep 20, 6:19, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: Pete Turnbull wrote: > > The first line on page 1 of my CP/M 2.2 manual says "CP/M? is a > > monitor/control program ..." > > It is indeed a monitor/control program. That does not mean that that > is what the initials stand for. In the same way I can say that WG is > a weird geek. (Actually, it's other people who usually say that -- I > just don't actively [or actually] disagree with them). Sure, but the point I was making was simply that it's referred to differently in different places. For example, other CP/M documentation refers to it as "a control program for microprocessors" -- but the 2.2 docs don't (AFAICS). I think trying to decide on a canonical definition of what CP/M stands for is futile -- since DR were themeselves inconsistent over time. Much the same thing happens in lots of other places, and it's not unusual for someone to pick a name simply because it has multiple meanings or interpretations. I think it's significant that early DR docs don't explicitly say what the acronym stands for (or even that it's an acronym). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 10 months

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CP/M definition

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Sep 19, 19:03, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > Subject: Re: CP/M definition > Sam Ismail wrote: > > > > This is from the CP/M FAQ: > > > > Q3: Does CP/M stand for anything? > > > > A: (Don Kirkpatrick) > > > > There are at least three popular answers - Control Program for > > Microcomputers, Control Program for Microprocessors, and Control > > Program/Monitor. The issue is clouded by authors of popular CP/M > > books giving different answers. According to Gary Kildall (the > > author of CP/M), in response to a direct question on the PBS show > > "The Computer Chronicles" following Computer Bowl I, the answer is: > > Control Program for Microcomputers. This is also consistent with > > DRI documentation. See, for example, p. 4 of the DRI TEX manual. > > > > If this is true then someone is lying (perhaps even Kildall himself). > > "Control Program for Microcomputers" is what I recall from magazine > articles in the 70s and it's what's used in my CP/M 3.0 manuals. The first line on page 1 of my CP/M 2.2 manual says "CP/M? is a monitor/control program ..." -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 10 months

2
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NeXT tidbits (hijacking a NeXT Computer properly / other tidbits)

by thomas100＠home.com

Hi, You can blow away the netinfo database if you like... tho' it's somewhat crude. There's a simple way to hijack a NeXT computer from the console.

27 years, 10 months

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NeXT tidbits [Printing]

by thomas100＠home.com

Hi, I've never figured out how to hook into a printer on another system [FROM NeXTStep/Rhapsody] which is annoying. It's easy if you're in the same location as netinfo handles everything for you... but I haven't been able to get one NeXT machine speaking remotely to another NeXT machine's laser printer without netinfo at long distances. I had better luck getting Windows networking and printing to work with my NeXT machine tho'. I expose my printer to my login account and can print from any Windows machine on the Internet to my NeXT machine once I login. Using Samba, you can have both Windows Networking and can configure your NeXT machine to look like a Postscript Laserprinter which is just _dandy_ for printing quick output from Win95 when you're away from home. Thomas

27 years, 10 months

2
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CP/M-86 / MSDOS / DRDOS / GEM / Windows

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:13:47 -0600 (CST) Scott Walde <scott(a)saskatoon.com> writes: >On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Albert J. McCann, Jr. wrote: > >> > >client was a stand-alone GEOS app. I know there were stand-alone >Win >> > >apps, but I can't remember any names. >> >> > The only one I've ever seen was the game "Balance of Power". >> > It's Windows 1.x >> >> Micrografx Designer was another. It ran a stand alone 2.x Windows. > >When I started selling computers in 1990, we had Aldus Pagemaker (v?) >on >the shelf. It included run-time windows v2.x. As did Samna's Ami (before it became 'PRO'). I still think Ami 1.0 is the best windoze wordprocessor ever written: SImple, but powerful and easy to use. It won't run under 3.1 though (sigh). > >Did this practice stop with Windows v3.0? Everything anyone has >mentioned >here was v1 or v2. > >ttyl >srw > > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 10 months

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