- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Which was false, anyhow. The entire CPU was on the 3850 chip. But you < seemed to be making the claim that the 3850 wasn't a single-chip < microprocessor because it didn't contain the complete CPU. I was statin It isn't a single chip microprocessor like it's cousin the 3870. It's definately in the multichip (IE: required external chips to be a complete system). < that the 3850 CPU was as complete as the 8080, so if you are going to cl < that the 3850 wasn't a single-chip microprocessor, in order to be consis < you'll have to make the same claim about the 8080. You are confused. The 8080 is a single chip cpu that requires support chips. The F8 is a single chip cpu that requires support chips. The 3870 however (or 8048) are single chip microprocessors. See the subtle difference? Also the F8 is not as complete a cpu as the 8080 as it really has to have a lost of stuff around it or special chips to get a nominal data/address bus to interface to convential rams/roms. Allison

27 years, 9 months

3
2
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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Funny you should mention the OSI's, a saintly coworker just gave me a C4P-MF and a C3D today. The C3D is the one you were thinking of with the 3 different CPU's. I also 'always wanted' a CompuColor II, and finally found one last year, it's REALLY rare. http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/CompuColorII.htm Still looking for a Sorcerer, but I have a couple of leads from the VCF. One gentleman has two of 'em, one of which has the S-100 box. Hasn't replied to my email yet though... Kai -----Original Message----- From: David Williams [mailto:dlw@trailingedge.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 3:20 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting On 6 Oct 98, at 16:48, Matt Pritchard wrote: > 1) Compucolor 2 (The Model with floppy disk in the monitor housing) > - I let one of these, working w/ software slip through my hands about > 4-5 > years ago That's one I played with once back in the dark ages and I wish I could find another. I have talked to people who worked there who still had a couple in the attic but didn't feel like digging them out and sending them to me, too much trouble. :-( > 2) an Exidy Sorcerer Finally got one and love it. Now if work would stop sending me around the country I could get some work done on the expansion box for it. >3) Ohio Scientific Challenger 4p (?) I'd be happy right now with any Ohio Scientific system. Though I'd really like the one, can't find my notes for the model, which had 3 processors. A 6502, Z-80 and 680x if I recall. Have the notes on it around here somewhere. Of course I'd add all of Kai's to the list too but that would throw me over 10. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

27 years, 9 months

4
3
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New Acquisitions

by hhacker＠gte.net

I worked at the Los Angeles Air Force Base in the mid 80's and one of the requirements for personal computers of the time was called TEMPEST. Computers meeting the TEMPEST specification contained such hardware as necessary in order to ensure that electromagnetic radiation emitted from the computer would not be able to be monitored in such a way as to determine the use to which the computer was being put. More simply, one would not be able to eavesdrop on the computer user, since there would be no discernable message in any electromagnetic radiation coming from the computer. Perhaps this is what you have. This would explain the extra shielding on cables and the double walled chassis. -----Original Message----- From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, October 10, 1998 12:10 AM Subject: New Acquisitions >We've all heard talk about how great amateur radio events are for finding >good stuff. Tonight, I went to the Ventura Amateur Radio Club annual >auction and picked up some interesting stuff. > >$ 1.00 IBM TPC (Tempest version of the IBM PC) >$ 5.00 Commodore 16 clean in the original box >$ 5.00 NEC PC-8201A in the original box >$ 1.00 Apple //e system w/ monitor, printer, numeric keypad >$ 2.00 Apple //e system w/ monitor, printer >$10.00 Commodore System w/ 1702 monitor, printer, etc. >$ 1.00 Collection of Apple ][ software > >BTW, I have never seen (or heard) of the IBM TPC before. Anyone know how >common these things are? Both the monitor and keyboard have shielded cables >running to the box (as expected) and it looks like the box itself is a box >within a box.

27 years, 9 months

1
0
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New Find

by lwalker＠mail.interlog.com

I keep adding to my collection regularly but this is notable. A Kaypro II to go with my (as yet non-functioning) Kaypro 2X. It was in an incredibly jammed little junk-store which remains unplumbed by me for now. In Sam's catergization scheme ,this would rate as a cockroach-market There were 2 walls piled high in a narrow shop with everything imagineable , leather jackets, jeans and toasters just tossed in a pile on top of each other with barely enough room to get between. Saw lots of old printers and monitors but at the bottom of one pile I could barely discern that tell-tale Darth Vader Blue form. It was dusty and dirty on the outside but clean-uppable and when I opened it up at home the KB was impeccably clean. It had cardboard inserts to protect the fdds, and the A drive's insert had a bill for $565 ($185 parts) with the owners name and phone number. I surmise the owner was told the price and never reclaimed it. Sounds like I have a Refurbished machine here ! :^)) ciao larry lwalker(a)interlog.com

27 years, 9 months

1
0
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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 03:16 PM 10/7/98 +1000, you wrote: >What is the difference between the PC-8201 and the PC-8201A? I've got two >PC-8201As, and what *seems* to be an PC-8201. It's a different, bronze, >colour and has "NEC PC-8201" printed on the top left-hand corner. However, >the silver sticker on the bottom of the computer says it is a PC-8201A. The most obvious difference is the japanese characters on the keyboard. The "[" key in the lower right corner (next to the spacebar) is instead a toggle key (like capslock or grph) that switches into japanese mode. It also says "personal computer" under PC-8201 next to the screen, whereas my 8201a doesn't. On the back, the silver sticker is written in japanese. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 9 months

3
2
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Internet Question

by rax＠warbaby.com

Does anyone remember the cost of internet access/online time via Compuserve in the 80s ? I need to give a comparison of today's cost of sending a graphics file. R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Once you get the nose on, the rest is just makeup.

27 years, 9 months

4
3
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FW: VS2000 Color Video Board for shipping cost.

by kyrrin＠my-dejanews.com

Check this out... -=-=- <snip> -=-=- From: "Mike O'Malley" <mike_omalley(a)usa.net> Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Subject: VAXstation 2000 Hardware Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:37:36 -0600 Organization: Flashnet Communications, http://www.flash.net Lines: 13 Message-ID: <6vo5ri$m76$1(a)excalibur.flash.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p69.amax2.dialup.abq2.flash.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-sea-20.sprintlink.net!207.12.55.130!news-west.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!nntprelay.mathworks.com!nntp.flash.net!excalibur.flash.net!not-for-mail I have one VAXstation 2000 board. - VS40X 4 Plane Color Graphics You want it, I send it. You pay the shipping. Please send request to mike_omalley(a)usa.net ...Mike ---------------- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) jps [dot] net Web: http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."

27 years, 9 months

1
0
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Misc.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< You need to add my favorite - Intersil's Intercept Jr. Good addition for an SBC, I wouldn't mind having on either. I do have the intersil 6960 sampler board. < Allison said: < >7. Intel prompt-48 < < I have one of those I could trade. < The only docs I have are 5 pages in the back of the MCS-48 < manual. Never have tried powering it up. Oh! Use to use one and know it well. Fun little box. Wouldn't mind having one for the SBC collection. Goes well with the IMSAI IMP48. Allison

27 years, 9 months

3
2
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Current Tracers

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Holy smokes! You're right! They're not in the 1998 catalog, but I found them in the 1996 catalog: HP-547A Current Tracer-- $975 ! I first saw these over 15 years ago-- the prices were *much* lower then! Ahhh, it looks like they don't make 'em no more. Bummer. But that was at most, two years ago. Not bad. On 9 Oct 1998 18:48:57 -0000 Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> writes: >> Yep, that's the one! Boy, did you ever get lucky! Those current >tracers >> are $300-$400 a shot! And HP *still* makes these. >> Such a deal. > >Are you sure? I can't find them on the HP T&M web site. > >Last time I checked into it, HP wanted about $800 for them. > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 9 months

5
6
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How to identify comm hardware you pass up

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Hey, here's a tip. If you're interested in knowing to what use you can put that communications hardware you keep passing up at your preferred source for classic computers, get yourself a Glasgal Communications catalog. The older the better. Glasgal was a company that sold thousands of communications products, from cables & connectors to muxes & switches, and everything in between (and I'm talking everything). The catalog I have from them is 1987, and has some pretty interesting stuff in it, including things I've seen at thrift stores or surplus shops, or things I've worked with. This particular catalog is called "System/Configuration Guide and Product Listing". So not only does it describe their complete product line but it also goes into technical discussions about certain products and their applications, including diagrams. Its basically a tutorial on how to hook up and use the products they are selling. It is very thorough and extraordinarily useful if you'd like to start building your own communcations network between disparate computer storage sites with old comm hardware. I found this particular catalog in a thrift store. Alas (homage to Tony :), Glasgal doesn't seem to be around anymore. I just made a bunch of calls, first to the number in the catalog, then to toll-free directory assistance, then to directory assistance in New Jersey, with no success. I then did a web search on "Glasgal Communications" and found this on a stock market discussion BBS: "WE ARE MANUFACTURERS OF HIGH QUALITY EMPTY GLASS BOTTLES. WE PRODUCE BOTTLES IN TWO COLORS AMBER & WHITE. WE ARE SUPPLYING TO THE LIQUOR, PHARMACEUTICAL, FOOD BEVERAGES AND COSMETICS INDUSTRIES ALL OVER THE WORLD." So either Glasgal Communications has radically altered its business plan or some new company has commandeered their name. If you run across a Glasgal Communications catalog from days gone by, grab it. This also applies to old Black Box catalogs (whom still exist) because if their old catalogs have the same format of their current catalogs, you can expect the same type of helpful information. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 9 months

1
0
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Misc.

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hi Sam and all, At 09:16 PM 10/9/98 -0700, you wrote: >Speeaking of which, I found an interesting Intersil board at a vermin >market (cheezier than a flea market) the other day. The silk screen mask >on the board says "ICM 7235/36 EV/KIT". It has a 40-pin socket (empty) >and two 14-pin sockets (empty) and a glass-enclosed LCD display that has >the following format: 188:8.8 (so in other words it has one digit with >only two segments, then 4 digits with all 7 segments and a colon and >period). I can't figure out what the display would be used for. It has >an edge connector for whatever purpose. Anyone know what this is? I wish >I had a damn digital camera already so I could get a picture of this to > An Intersil 7235 is a 4 digit vacuum fluorescent driver chip, 40 pins. Input = mux. BCD/hex data. A 7236 is a 4 1/2 digit counter with a vacuum fluorescent driver like the 7235. Interesting that they have a common eval. board, my old Intersil cat. just says an evaluation kit is available for each one (separate numbers). -Dave

27 years, 9 months

1
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Book Review: A Guide To Collecting Computers ...

by fauradon＠pclink.com

>Buy the book! I wish more collectors would start offering services that >target other collectors (like Jim W's IMSAI parts supply). Who will be >first to offer an old computer manual reprint service? (Similar services >seem to be popular in the ham radio community.) >-- Doug I thought WE were already doind that! Aren't WE? Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon

27 years, 9 months

1
0
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Hayes Bankruptcy

by rcini＠email.msn.com

This is the *second* bankruptcy for Hayes in 5 years. The last was in 1994 (emergence in 1996, I think). Maybe it's time to let someone else take a shot at running the company? Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 9 months

1
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FS: Hewlett Packard 90 Meter DDS Data Cartridges

by oajones＠bright.net

I have a unopened box of Hewlett Packard 90 meter DDS Data Catridges (5 cartridges, 2 Gbytes before compression). I'm asking $10 plus shipping. Send me email if you are interested. --Alan -- Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo, PC, CP/M Military Computers: COMTRAN 10, Nida 250 Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++ mailto: oajones(a)bright.net

27 years, 9 months

1
0
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Corrections to trivia

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > Babbage was not the first to come up with the idea of a computer, but you > can trace the development of modern computers back to him. You can't do > anything like that with Holt's chip -- it had no influence. Maybe there > were other Big Bangs before The Big Bang, but if they didn't create a > Universe, nobody cares. I think this attitude in general carelessly disregards an amazing body of work. In fact, I think people do care. I'm not so quick to sweep historical facts underneath the carpet simply as a matter of convenience. I'd rather know the complete and true story, and not just the easiest one to remember. Furthermore, you are are discounting the AMI microprocessors of the early 70s, which Holt went on to design after the F14 CADC, and the influence those chips may have had on later designs. In fact, you are choosing to go along with the popular history written years ago by a biased reporter that is perpetuated by lazy historians who simply regurgitate the information they read in the last book rather than doing real research and finding out there was more to the story, and that there is history before the popular history. The picture is bigger than the canvas it was painted on. I want to know what was beyond the frame. I'm surprised you have this attitude when on the one hand you'd like to see the HP9830 recognized as the first personal computer, rather than the Altair 8800. By your own reasoning, the HP9830 wasn't the big bang, so who cares? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 9 months

3
14
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Hayes

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

When was the last time? > >Again? > >George > >========================================================= >George L. Rachor george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com >Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com > >On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > >> >> Just so everyone knows, Hayes has filed for Bankruptcy.. >> >> ______________________________________________________ >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 9 months

4
3
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Internet Question

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Does anyone remember the cost of internet access/online time via Compuse < in the 80s ? I need to give a comparison of today's cost of sending a < graphics file. 1984 300 baud was 12.50hr connect time. 1986 1200baud was 12.50hr 1991 1200baud was 9.50hr 1994 2400 6.00hr I may be off some, it's a memory test. Compared to now, very expensive and graphic files were rarely sent before 86ish though there were up/downloads. Oh, internet mail was 1990 and roughly $0.15 a page additional I don't think sending binaries were possible then. Allison

27 years, 9 months

3
2
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TRS-80 Model 100 (was Re: Convergent Technologies workSlate)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:08 AM 10/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >The mention in this thread of a Kyocera-labeled product intrigues me, >as I'd never heard of such at the edge of the Pacific I was on then. The Kyocera KC-85 is well known, although not too common. The case is shaped more like the NEC, but it has the keyboard of the m100. P.S., come to VCF 3.0 and see all the variations (hopefully!) and check out the talk I'm going to do (hopefully!) on the history of all these machines. (If anyone has any info, history, or anecdotes, please get in touch!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 9 months

1
0
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Top 10 sins of a computer scrapper

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 04:07 AM 10/7/98 EDT, you wrote: >Chameleon, I may have a manual or two. If you do, would you be interested in getting rid of them? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 9 months

1
0
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Current Tracers

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Oh yeah, these things are like, mondo-cool. Generally, the logic pulser and current tracer are used together. A common failure mode for TTL and CMOS devices is you'll have a node in a circuit stuck low. Okay, you have a source driving two or more inputs. Who's weighing everything down? With the circuit in some steady state, start the pulser pulsing, and apply it to the pin that's the source. Place the tip of the current tracer on the trace that the source is attached to, and adjust the sensitivity control until the indicator light has some intensity. I think the light will blink at some intensity when it's set right-- Anyway, run the probe tip along the trace. If the light goes out, or goes dim, you passed the branch to where you pulses are going. You follow the pulses until you end up at the bad device and seriously impress the hell out of anybody watching. Why are these things so expensive? The element at the tip is an *EXTREMELY* sensitive hall-effect device, it's polarized (notice the little dot on the tip), and it's a seriously intense analog instrument in a teeny-weenie little package. But probably mostly because some people will pay just about anything for anything that's made by hp (nobody ever got fired for buying an HP product over something else). Anyway, so that's the low-down on current tracing (well, as good as I can remember, anyway). For random-logic, you just cant beat it. I think I still have an old applications bulletin around here someplace. . . . Jeff On Fri, 09 Oct 1998 18:08:32 -0700 Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)jps.net> writes: >At 14:40 09-10-98 -0500, you wrote: > >>Holy smokes! You're right! They're not in the 1998 catalog, but I >found >>them in the 1996 catalog: HP-547A Current Tracer-- $975 ! > > <eep!> > > My God... I just double-checked the model number on mine. > > Yep... 547A. Geez, and I though the Data I/O UniSite I got a >few years ago >was a coup! > > What makes the darn things so expensive? For that matter, what >are some of >the uses for it? I got it mainly as a curiousity, and as part of the >purchase of my logic pulser, but if the thing is one of those Really >Useful >but Obscure tools, I'd like to know about it. > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) (Web: >http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin) >SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in >our own >human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 9 months

2
1
0 0

Internet Question

by roblwill＠usaor.net

El,, I agree about CompuServe, but one of the online services that I know of in the later 80's was Tandy's PC-Link. It came with DeskMate, and was text-only (I think). I'm not sure of the prices, because I never signed up, though. As for graphics, I don't thing there was much graphics. Most of it was text. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)retrocomputing.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Internet Question > Date: Friday, October 09, 1998 10:17 PM > > > > > Does anyone remember the cost of internet access/online time via Compuserve > > in the 80s ? I need to give a comparison of today's cost of sending a > > graphics file. > > Er...CompuServe didn't have Internet access in the 80s. For that matter, > it doesn't really have it in the 90s but that's a matter of opinion. =-D > > Anthony Clifton - Wirehead >

27 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< There's also a version of the UCSD p-System, which runs on a minimal -11 < but that probably has licensing restrictions, too. Runs nice on -11s but the license it far as I know even more tangled. Allison

27 years, 9 months

1
0
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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Are the CPM68K sources available? Under what sort of license? < Visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site. MAIN SITE AT : http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm US MIRROR AT : http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm European Mirror at : http://cws86.kyamk.fi/mirrors/cpm/ Allison

27 years, 9 months

1
0
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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< On this it is my understanding that it was a fairly modified version of < RT-11, and it won't run on a "real" PDP-11. Most certainly did. the device drivers supplied are heath specific though for the disks only. Allison

27 years, 9 months

1
0
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Hayes

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Just so everyone knows, Hayes has filed for Bankruptcy.. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 9 months

2
1
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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Earlier I poionted out that RT-11 has a hobby license... after rereading the License it's clear that's not the case it's only available free for the Supnik Emulator. This doesn't help most people. Now, the problem is for those people that have an -11 and want to use it somehow what is there in the way of OSs? RT-11 legal restrictions exist... RSX-11 No idea, but I'd expect licensing again RSTS Licensing again? Unix... AVAILABLE via PUPs support group as free binaries and 100$ license for sources. Initially this seems good but not all PDP-11 configurations can run unix and not all versions of Unix have the drivers to interact with some PDP-11 hardware. So it may take a lot of work with limited tools or none to get it going. Xenix, available free as binaries for the PRO... Canned version OF V6 by appearance and if you have other than an RD51 it doesn't work. So what else is there that is free (or very low cost) and can be run on most of the LSI-11, PDP-11/23 or 11/73 series? IE: can be run on a 11/03 with RX01 floppy or a 11/73 with RQDX3 MSCP disks (hard disks). There is fuzzball but I know far to little about it or it's applicability to various hardware configs. Allison

27 years, 9 months

6
7
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DEC-clones from behind the old Iron Curtain.

by kstumpf＠unusual.on.ca

Some of you might be interested in this great story and remarkable photographs. >Hello! > >I'd be honoured if you include my webpage about the Digital >PDP8, PDP11 and VAX compatible computers manufactured in Hungary >during the existance of the "Iron Curtain": > http://www.internetto.hu/muzeum/e_tpa.html > >I also have a PDP-11 tribute page at: > http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/pdp-11/ > >Thanks for your time! > > / ___ _ _ ___ ____ ___ ___ > /__//__///_///__ / /_ / ) Varga Akos Endre hamster(a)telnet.hu >/ // // /___/ / /__ / ( www.telnet.hu/hamster/english.html >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > My collection http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/decadence/e_index.html >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 .

27 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Help with AES computer?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< If a sample of those diskettes is available, I, or Allison, or lots of < others on this list could check it out and find out just what they have If it's softsector I have capability. If hardsector it's within my capability. I lack the financial incentive to persue building one time hardware/software effort being they are an organization. Allison

27 years, 9 months

2
1
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Who wants 3480 1/2" tape carthridges?

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Who's the Canadian guy who said he wanted the box of 3480 1/2" tape carthridges and was supposed to send me shipping dough for them? I haven't heard from you since we last spoke. (Sorry, I forgot who you were). But this message is also to solicit anyone else who needs these. I've got a couple hundred. Used once, maybe twice, but otherwise they may as well be new. I think one application for these is an IBM AS/400. Just pay me shipping and they're yours. Otherwise I'll find some creative way to auction them on eBay and make a small fortune. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 9 months

1
0
0 0

Apple power supply problems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I can't think of a reliable troubleshooting technique that invloves < feeding unlimited current through the device. The next part to smoke may < not be the problem at all... I'd go further to say doing that assures the single point problem is not a multiple point problem assuming the damage is now not beyond repairable. Toasting chokes and transformers generally assures the tech a really nasty task of trying to find one compared to an easy one finding caps, resistors and semiconductors. Allison

27 years, 9 months

2
1
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Misc.

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

Kai said: > 1. The Altair prototype that was to be the cover photo for Popular > Electronics but was lost in shipment > 2. Xerox Alto > 3. Mark 8 > 4. Scelbi 8H > 5. Kenbak-1 > 6. Micral 8008 > 7. Apple I > 8. An unassembled Altair 8800 Kit > 9. Busicom Japan Intel 4004-based Calculator > 10. IBM 5100 You need to add my favorite - Intersil's Intercept Jr. Allison said: >7. Intel prompt-48 I have one of those I could trade. The only docs I have are 5 pages in the back of the MCS-48 manual. Never have tried powering it up. ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA =========================================

27 years, 9 months

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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< The binaries are pretty much useless if you want to run on real hardware < In order to reconfigure unix you have to recompile from the sources. The < sources, though are affordable, and certainly some versions include < drivers for a lot of DEC drives, etc. But I think you need an MMU, so no < chance of running on an 11/03 Yep! depending on version you your really need sources. I have an 11/73 with RQDX3 and two RD52s and V7 running on a 10mb RL02 cart. Without sources all of the other disks unless older RK05s are useless. Also it doesn't use all the avalable ram. Fairly useless other than it's real unix. < > The question is however is there something else? I know fuzzball is < > around but I don't know if that is a option for most -11 users. < < IIRC Fuzzball needs an RT11 system to provide a lot of utilities (things < like PIP), the assembler, etc. It's not really stand-alone. Also problematic. Almost begs a new PD OS that is on the simple scale, buildable and patterned after RT or OS/8. Porting CPM68 (c source) to PDP-11 may be doable for a simple 64k memory (16bit). Porting C sources is not my area of expertize. Allison

27 years, 9 months

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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 9, 10:00, David C. Jenner wrote: > This is a critical question. If there were only a small OS that ran > on a minimal -11 with floppies, there could be many more usable systems > out there. > > There are several other possibilities. The last two of these have > fairly liberal licensing restrictions (maybe none): > > - HT-11, the Heathkit version of RT-11 > - Xinu, which runs on an 11/03, but [...] > - FORTH, which is available in several different versions There's also a version of the UCSD p-System, which runs on a minimal -11, but that probably has licensing restrictions, too. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 9 months

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Help with AES computer?

by rax＠warbaby.com

Can anyone help this guy? >Professor Dr Hans Rollmann, who supervises one of the more elegant and >elaborate sites on the WorldWideWeb for the Department of Religious Studies >at Memorial University in Newfoundland, has found some important primary >data that he hopes to mount with other texts on the site. These data are >imprisoned on 8-inch computer disks that were made on an AES computer, >apparently in the 1980s. No printed record of the material survives; only >the 8-inch disks remain. No AES computer or 8-inch drive exists at Memorial >University; the technical services people from the Computing Sciences >Department tried to build an 8-inch drive from spare parts, but came up >short. The intellectual content frozen in this "obsolete" technology >remains unreadable. > >Does anyone know the whereabouts of an intact AES computer? Failing that, >is there any available information about these machines? What did the >acronym AES stand for? Where was it built? Most important, what operating >system did it use? What word processing software might have been loaded? > >Has anyone preserved any computer with an 8-inch disk drive? As I recall, >both Commodore and Atari used 8-inch drives. > >Anyone who has useful information on this problem can communicate with >Professor Rollmann at > > hrollman(a)morgan.ucs.mun.ca > >Those who may be interested in his religious studies web site can begin >sifting through its many layers at > > http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~hrollman > >Professor Rollmann will be grateful for any assistance anyone can offer. >The rest of us need to be sure that any intellectual material we >"catalogue" can also be "read." -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Once you get the nose on, the rest is just makeup.

27 years, 9 months

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World Power Systems scam

by bobstek＠ix15.ix.netcom.com

Kai - Please don't confuse Morrow (a "good" guy) with the Xitan scammers. TDL made a Z-80 board and then some decent software, and then some Xitan computer systems. TDL got into trouble using some bad memory chips and had cash flow problems. Some "business consultants" were brought in who dissolved TDL and started Xitan and heavily promoted an advanced Z80 system, the General. They took orders and disappeared in '78. But George Morrow wasn't involved - he was in California, and TDL / Xitan was in New Jersey. Bob Stek bobstek(a)ix.netcom.com Saver of Lost SOLs

27 years, 9 months

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"David Williams" North Star Horizon Help

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

RE: "David Williams" North Star Horizon Help I keep meaning to write up a Horizon troubleshooting guide because it seem that someone has these same problems about every 6 months. But I can't even seem to find the time to sit down and just design a logo graphic for my museum. OK here is a quick shoot at it. >Ok, I have a few minutes now to play around with the N* Horizon >I've been fixing up. I've tried to power it up and it seems to hit the >disk drive and then nothing. Good, if the drive light is coming on that saves some steps. On a normal load the drive light should be on for about 12 seconds. The first step would be to see if you are getting a READ error on the drive. 1. According to the MDS-A-D controller manual you can test for a read error at location 7C pin 6. This is the DI-GATE line and on a read error there will be a continuous stream of pulses on this line. This chip is 7 columns from the left side and 3 rows >from the top and should be a 74LS00. I tried this out this morning. I could'nt find my logic probe so I used a voltmeter. With NO disk error 7C pin 6 stayed at 4.55 VDC. With a disk error this pin dropped to 1.91 VDC indicating pulses. If you are getting disk errors, it could be: * a blank or bad disk * a single density disk * a faulty disk drive * or a fault in the read circuit of the controller. Also check that the head carriage guide is in the spiral groove on the stepper motor cam of the disk drive. If you are not getting a disk error then it's narrowed down to a unpersonalized disk or serial communcations problems. 2. It would help for the next step to have a bus monitor card. These are like gold if you are dealing with S-100 bus systems on a regular basis. But you can also just use a bus extender card to allow you to get to the bus signals with your voltmeter. This morning I looked at the address bus after booting with a working DOS disk and with a unpersonalized DOS disk. With the standard version that loads at $2000, the I/O routines are normally placed at $2900-$2A00. The unpersonalized DOS has it I/O vectors pointing to themself like this: $200D C30D20 COUT JMP COUT THIS IS THE CHARACTER OUTPUT ROUTINE * Character must be in the B register. Device # may be in the ACC, if * desired. On return the character must also be in the ACC. No other * registers can be modified. Your routine must do a RET. * $2010 C31020 CIN JMP CIN THIS IS THE CHARACTER INPUT ROUTINE * Device # may be in the ACC, if desired. The 7 bit ascii code must be * returned in the ACC. No other registers can be modified. Your routine * must do a RET. * $2013 C31320 TINIT JMP TINIT THIS IS THE TERMINAL INIT ROUTINE * All registers can be used. If not needed, point to a RET. * $2016 C31620 CONC JMP CONC THIS IS THE CONTROL C DETECTION ROUTINE * Returns Z set if control C is typed, else returns Z cleared if other * character or no character is typed. All registers can be used. In both cases bit 13 of the address bus is alway active ($2000). With the unpersonalized disk the 8 lower bits were the ONLY other active lines. But with the working disk, bits 8-11 were also active. So, checking address bits 8-11 for activity should show you if DOS is really trying to communicate with your terminal. 3. I still can't find my manual for the Horizon that shows how to set the DIP headers (the "plugs" are called DIP headers). Here a RS-232 break-out box would be handy. If you don't have one, I would try setting the Horizon to 300 baud (with that switch in the back) and your terminal to 9600 baud. That should give you a couple of lines of garbage if any thing comes across the line. Remember to set your terminal to 8 bits, no parity, 1 stop bit, no flow control, and if you are using your PC as a terminal which would be best, emulate just a standard ANSI-BBS terminal. When I use my PC as a terminal, I use a straight through 25 wire ribbon cable, but try your Null Modem cable too. If you get the garbage then set your terminal to the same speed as the Horizon. And remember that the Horizon may not boot when powered on, you may have to hit the reset switch in the back. Let me know what you find. And I'll send the games to you next week (have to work this weekend). ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA =========================================

27 years, 9 months

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6502 vs. 6800 (was Re: kits, definitions, prices...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< When IBM was developing the 1401 emulation for the 360/30, they discover < that many customers were in fact using and dependent on undefined behavi < of the 1401. They had to emulate a lot of things that were never docume This was also true for undocumented PDP-8 series microcoded OPR instructions. In the later 8E and 8A and cmons parts there would be support for some of them. Other cpus with undocumented instruction are 8085, z80 and I'll bet a slew more. Those however the undocumented instructions were also copied and assured to work by licensed and non-licensed copies of the parts. Allison

27 years, 9 months

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Old HP disk drives (HP 7925) available

by sieler2＠allegro.com

Hi, David Largent, at Largent(a)MBRNET.INTEREX.ORG, has some old HP disk drives available (in Muncie, Indiana). The HP 7925 is a 120 MB disk with an HP-IB interface (removable disk pack). The HP 7933 is a 400 MB disk with an HP-IB interface (non-removable, although extremely closely related to the HP 7935, which is removable). The drives are about the size of a 2-drawer filing cabinet ... and heavier. If you're interested in them, contact him ... not me! His posting: > OK. With all this talk about the old venerable 7925 and 7933 disc > drives, it makes me realize that I still have a pair (a master and a > slave) of 7925s sitting here in a corner with boxes stacked on top of > them. They're left over from a 3000/42 that we sold years ago, and > were fully operational when they were disconneted. I think I even > have the manuals for them! > > We're going to be relocating our offices in a few weeks, and it makes > no sense to move them. Thus a few questions... > > - Does anybody want them? They're your's if you pay to get them > delivered to you. (We _might_ [read: probably not] even be willing > to share in the cost if you can offer a good home and there's not too > much cost involved.) > > - Assuming nobody wants them (or parts of them), what should I do w/ > them? A few ideas come to mind... > > - Haul them to the junk yard for scrap metal. > - Sell them for "precious metal". (Is there any in it???!) > - Leave them in the old building and let the new occupents > figure out what to do w/ them. (hehehe) > > Being the pack rat that I am, and a long-time, loyal HP customer, > it's difficult to think about simply hauling them off to the junk > yard. Seems like they at least deserve a burial or something! > > Now I'll sit back and wait for those "creative" (or real) suggestions > to start coming my way from the list. :-) > > -dll > > David L. Largent "My thoughts are my own, > Information Services Manager unless I choose to share them!" > The Gilbert Companies, Inc. Telephone: 765/284-4461 > P.O. Box 1032 Facsimile: 765/288-2079 > Muncie, Indiana 47308-1032 Email: Largent(a)MbrNet.Interex.Org > -- Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com http://www.allegro.com/sieler.html

27 years, 9 months

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Canon Cat

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:12:07 -0500 (CDT) Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> writes: >On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Sherry Bumgarner wrote: > >> I have a lot of information on the Canon Cat and related computers. >I >> worked on them and was a company (Information Appliance) founder. >> Interested? > >Yes, very! We all want to know the real story of who killed the Cat! Maybe nobody-- maybe because it was just too 'curious'. (sorry, couldn't resist). >(And I want one or two of your Cats, as well). > >-- Doug > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 9 months

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Canon Cat

by sherry＠neteze.com

I have a lot of information on the Canon Cat and related computers. I worked on them and was a company (Information Appliance) founder. Interested? John 'Sandy' Bumgarner job(a)garlic.com

27 years, 9 months

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6502 vs. 6800 (was Re: kits, definitions, prices...)

by franke＠sbs.de

Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> > Cameron Kaiser <ckaiser(a)oa.ptloma.edu> wrote about undefined 6502 opcodes: >> [lot deleted] Exact hit Eric. > This is nothing new to microprocessors; many mainframes and minicomputers > had undefined opcodes which customers experimented with. Yes, but as a rule, mainframes and most minis catch undefined opcodes in a special exeption. Even the Intel x86 (starting >from with the 80186) throw an Int 06 on invalid opcodes. > As with the > microprocessors, there was never any guarantee that the undefined opcodes > on any two otherwise equivalent machines would peform identically. With > microprocessors, though, there tend to be fewer design changes made after > introduction than there were for mainframes. AFAIK, all NMOS 6502 CPUs > have the same behavior for all undocumented instructions. Some of the > NMOS deriviatives have different behavior though. Jep, the web article used by Cameron as reference is based on the Commodore 8502 used in the C64. Just lucky that Commo used the original MOS design for the 8502 :). Other 6502 compatible Processors, that didn't use the original design have different operations at the undefind opcodes. Eventualy this led to some problems Apple II programms encountered on individual clones or Apples with upgraded CPUs. Especialy when one switched for any of the CMOS types (65C02, 65SC02, 65G02, 65S02), becuse they used some of the free Opcodes for new/enhanced operations (like bitmaipulation etc.). Undefined opcodes ar implementation dependend like internal function of an operating system are version dependand. Just remember how ridicoulus the CPU detection algorythms on the x86 are since there was no standard cpu type command. Some of the enhanced chips can only be detected usind complex tryal and error strategies. I remember that a general purpose detector could take some seconds to determinate the CPU thru exeptions, timeouts, busfaults and arithmetic checking. And now try to distinguish the different 6502s. I have never seen any programm to perform this. Funy thing: History repeats with DirectX - Microsoft didn't include any version checking in DirectX 3.0 so, for example, if you want to use the enhanced sound functions later on, you have to perform time consuming operations to finaly find the needed function resulting in an error (or worse, depending on the function just performing diferent). Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 9 months

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Current Tracers

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Whoa! Yep, that's the one! Boy, did you ever get lucky! Those current tracers are $300-$400 a shot! And HP *still* makes these. Such a deal. On Thu, 08 Oct 1998 18:40:44 -0700 Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)jps.net> writes: >At 00:44 09-10-98 -0000, you wrote: > >>I've lusted after the HP Current Tracer for years, but they are very >>expensive and the price keeps going up! > > Is this the probe that looks a lot like the later models of HP >Logic >Probe, except with an insulated tip and a little pot that's used to >set the >sensitivity? > > If so, I got lucky and found one at a local swap meet. I think >the guy >wanted all of $25 for it and the HP Logic Pulser. I got both, >naturally. > > I would conclude that they do show up at techie swaps, but not >that often. > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) (Web: >http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin) >SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in >our own >human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 9 months

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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Someone suggested H11 and I'd bet that one is more encumbered as it was a version of RT and I think Heath was licensed from DEC. < Obviously, I don't own a license for RT-11. And assume that the commerci < license from Mentec is probably much more than a hobbyist would pay to < tinker with old machines. Has anyone approached Mentec about the Unknown, Megan any idea of cost? < they would be more apt to create one. From what I can tell, an old PDP < with no software license is virtually useless, except for < hacking/curiosity value. After a half hour of playing around with the Maybe someone could create an OS for the PD, patterned after CPM or ???. < would be without the VMS-hobbyist license. I mean, who _really_ wants t < run BSD on all of your old hardware? It kind of defeats the whole < purpose of collecting the old machines if you have the same stupid Unix < prompt on your VAX, Sparc 1, Mac IIfx, 486PC, etc... That is especially true if your not into unix though, that is an option for those that are. Allison

27 years, 9 months

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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< V5, V6 and V6 are available from the same site as the Supnik < emulators, and I don't believe the licenses accompanying them < are as strict... and yes, the license for them is only $100. The 100$ license is for the sources. Binaries are pretty much free if it runs on what you have. It turns out that can be more of a restriction than any license. The question is however is there something else? I know fuzzball is around but I don't know if that is a option for most -11 users. For me it's no fun running an emulator when real iron is at hand. Though I'm able to run most OSs I'm always looking at "Yet other choices". Allison

27 years, 9 months

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Heathkit H8 vs. H-89

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< address of 4200H or something for TRS-80 Model 1's without a memory < mapping mod, and also for some Heathkit machine. I always assumed the < latter was the H8. All of the H8 and H89 systems were rom at 0000, mods were available for both. Allison

27 years, 9 months

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Apple power supply problems

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

one of my 3 apple //GS wouldnt power up which after subbing parts out, turned out to be a power supply issue. i took the cover off the ps to look around finding nothing obviously wrong. i looked at the fuse and wasnt sure if it had burned out or not. call me crazy or whatever, but i used a paper clip to bypass the fuse and plugged the ac in and powered on for just a sec. i got a bit of smoke so i powered off and checkes. not finding the source, i did it again while watching. this time, something really smoked! it seems to be a small transformer of some sort, about 3/4 in square and 1 inch high and it's right near where the a/c comes into the power supply. there's a larger one right int he middle of the circuit board. it's still hot several minutes later! thankfully the computer itself is ok although it did reset my main computer on the same electrical outlet. provided i didnt destroy the whole bloody thing, what could be causing the problem? david

27 years, 9 months

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World Power Systems scam

by bill_r＠inetnebr.com

I was thinking I had seen it in 80 Microcomputing. If I get time this weekend, I'll see if I can find it. My memory is hazy on the issue, but I believe I either sent them money for a product, or was _about_ to send them money when it turned out to be a scam. I remember things like mock-ups of products that they used in their ads; they'd taken some standard project boxes and literally just sat parts of switches, LED lenses, etc, on top of them for the photographs. I think I may have talked to someone at the "company" about their products. If I can ask, what prompted this after so long? > >But can anyone point me to a particular issue of Byte or other >magazine that has a World Power Systems ad? > >- John > > Bill Richman incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf microcomputer simulator!)

27 years, 9 months

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Canon Cat

by sherry＠neteze.com

If anyone wants to know about the Cat, I have a large collection of info and Cats (and a Swyft or two) and a lot of memories. John 'Sandy' Bumgarner job(a)garlic.com (sherry(a)neteze.com is my wife's email address)

27 years, 9 months

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6502 vs. 6800 (was Re: kits, definitions, prices...)

by franke＠sbs.de

>::Jep, the web article used by Cameron as reference is >::based on the Commodore 8502 used in the C64. Just >::lucky that Commo used the original MOS design for >::the 8502 :). Other 6502 compatible Processors, that > Luck had nothing to do with it -- Commodore owned MOS. MOS was turned into > Commodore Semiconductor Group after Jack Tramiel bought them out. Stupid meone, no idea of history. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 9 months

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Hard drive recovery questions

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

This particular manifestation of a hard drive problem is not classic, but since it could just as easily happen on a classic computer, might as well ask it here. If you think it's inappropriate, please say so. The machine in question is a Mac Quadra 610, which has been running as a fileserver for a 15-machine network for many years. It has an 8GB hard drive, probably one of the first to get into catalogs. It was working OK, but tended to freeze when four people started to transfer 10MB files. So, we replaced it. And now, the hard drive stopped working and we can't get the documents stored on it back. Here is the hard drive problem: it spins up ok (takes about 15sec. and sounds like a hair dryer when it does), and then tries to seek. The heads sound OK for about 1 sec. and then make a clicking noise and stop. It then tries again. Does this mean some servo data has been overwritten or something? We don't want to spend $1000 on recovery, and I thought this might be a good time to try some alternative methods. Would it help if I opened the drive and manually moved the heads? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 9 months

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