- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

On a system/34, stick something through the slot, and pull the cover off. The silver thing inside the slot is one end of a catch, which attaches to the frame. Pushing on the silver thing swings the catch away. > >I made my first major equipment move today. It was a System/34 system >unit (5340), a System/36 system unit (5360), two band printers (3262), and >two tape drives (8809). About 5,000 lb. as near as I can figure. Nothing >fell over or hurt anybody- very encouraging for the next move (although >now I'm out of room!) > >My biggest, burning question is this: How do you get those darn covers on >the side of the S/36 open? All it has is a little 1/4" long slot. >Probing around inside was completely fruitless. I can see a black plastic >piece inside through the slot, but pushing, pulling, lifting, or pushing >down on it doesn't do anything. > >Any help would be much appreciated. > >Richard Schauer >rws(a)ais.net > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 9 months

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Need Info on DEC 11/84 Board, M8190

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< But this doesn't explain why some units are not common even in scientifi < fields. Like the millifarad, for example. This is because that is an odd size 1000mF (10^-6) is rather uncommon when standard values and notation came about. Back then a 50mF cap was a large value! It was the advent of transistor circuits and their lower voltage power supplies that 1000mF were common. Then again we see caps now in the full Farad sizes. Then again from a womans point of view, it may be that 1400mm sounds bigger than 5 and a half inches. ;) Allison

27 years, 9 months

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Need Info on DEC 11/84 Board, M8190/ relays

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Assuming each relay occupied a cubic inch, one million relays would < occupy a cube 100 inches on each side, or just a bit over 8 feet on each < Not ridiculously large. The problem is not the size of the relay but the wires to interconnect them. For each relay one can assume there would be a minimum 10% volume overhead for interconnecting wires. < Of course, real relays much smaller than a cubic inch are readily availa < and a real computer of that density would have incredible cooling < problems. There are small units in the size of T05 (.325" dia, .265 tall) and the crystal can sizes (1.25x1.00x.375). So small relays are common and their power needs are very small. Also they cycle faster. These relays also have the advantage of being sealed preventing contamination. The later detail is real for larger systems. I have used the crystal can relays for control systems (25 relays!) and they are reliable fast and modest power. the units I used were Allied Signal manufacture and at 26.5v only required 50mA (max) and had 5A DPDT contacts. Each relay would use 1.325W... full scale machine using say 10,000 would use a fair amount of power. There are lower power relays available as well. Using two cross coupled makes a fine flip-flop. Allison

27 years, 9 months

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Need Info on DEC 11/84 Board, M8190

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Here in the US, it's rare to see nanoFarads used as a unit - it's < far more common to see a 2.2nF capacitor referred to as a 0.0022uF < or as a 2200pF unit. This is an extension of the days when < "microFarad" was "mF", and the next subdivision was "micro-micro-Farad" < or "mmF". I have a lot of cap on drawing I've specified as nF and I switched to pF (picofarards 10^-12) back in the late 60s. < I believe that "mmg" is still used as a prefix in medical fields, < but here it means (as far as I can figure out) "millimicrogram". < Can someone correct me on this (I'm sure I'm wrong!) A friend is a toxicologist and with it isn't PPM it's picograms/liter. Allison

27 years, 9 months

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Need Info on DEC 11/84 Board, M8190

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> If one were to estimate the number of transistors in a penitum II >> at 100 million (?), then if an exchange has ~three relays per number, >More like a little more than a 1 million. With a 100 million transistor >CPU I could rule the world!!! Assuming each relay occupied a cubic inch, one million relays would occupy a cube 100 inches on each side, or just a bit over 8 feet on each side. Not ridiculously large. Of course, real relays much smaller than a cubic inch are readily available, and a real computer of that density would have incredible cooling problems. Tim.

27 years, 9 months

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Need Info on DEC 11/84 Board, M8190

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>And the millifarad. If you want to get an odd look, go into an >electronics shop and ask for a 2.2 millifarad capacitor. Nothing wrong >with the unit AFAIK but nobody seems to use it other than me :-) Here in the US, it's rare to see nanoFarads used as a unit - it's far more common to see a 2.2nF capacitor referred to as a 0.0022uF or as a 2200pF unit. This is an extension of the days when "microFarad" was "mF", and the next subdivision was "micro-micro-Farad", or "mmF". I believe that "mmg" is still used as a prefix in medical fields, but here it means (as far as I can figure out) "millimicrogram". Can someone correct me on this (I'm sure I'm wrong!) Tim.

27 years, 9 months

2
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Educational subsidies

by backofene＠hotmail.com

I know being an old Apple zealot I'm supposed to bemoan Win95, but it hasn't been a problem for us. Now 300 machines on our network with the old Cat3 cable and dozens of old switches in the wire closets- that's a problem, but nothing I can blame 95 for. > >On Sun, 18 Oct 1998 05:40:38 PDT "Eileen Backofen" ><backofene(a)hotmail.com> writes: > ><Interesting perspective of computers in the classroom SNIPPED> > >> >>The introduction of Windows 95 also did a lot to change encourage >>education to change platforms. > ><SMIRK> > >Yeah, I imagine it encouraged them to change back to the >'Pencil and Paper' computing platform. > ></SMIRK> > > > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 9 months

1
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Educational subsidies

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Sun, 18 Oct 1998 05:40:38 PDT "Eileen Backofen" <backofene(a)hotmail.com> writes: <Interesting perspective of computers in the classroom SNIPPED> > >The introduction of Windows 95 also did a lot to change encourage >education to change platforms. <SMIRK> Yeah, I imagine it encouraged them to change back to the 'Pencil and Paper' computing platform. </SMIRK> ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 9 months

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VCF on CNET

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Yah! The Vintage Computer Festival was immortalized on television. It aired on CNET Central on the USA network this morning at 6:00am. You might be able to catch re-runs of it this week on local stations. Its the last segment of the show. Here's a list of the people who were included in the 5-minute segment: Roger Sinasohn (talking about the Toshiba T1100) Jacob Rittoro Chuck McManis (talking about his PDP-8) Marvin Johnston Kai Kaltenbach (answering "Altair 8800" to the question "which is your favorite?) Paul Zachary Larry Anderson (showing off his PET 2001) Frank Gottschalk Jim Willing (talking about all sorts of stuff) And me (I'm Da Star! :) It was a very well-done segment, and I'm very pleased with it. Its sort of funny seeing yourself on TV, especially at 6am. Next year, I want prime time baby! If you get ZDTV (ZiffDavis) on cable then watch for a segment on one of their shows as well in the next couple weeks I would imagine. If I get word from them I'll pass it along too. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 9 months

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Educational subsidies

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> What were the > particulars of Apple educational licensing? Um, what was there to license? You bought an Apple ][, you got Integer Basic. You bought an Apple ][+, you got Applesoft. You buy a Disk ][, you DOS 3.2 (and, later when it came out, DOS 3.3 free of charge.) Are you possibly asking about non-operating system hardware? Tim.

27 years, 9 months

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Unibus Emulex board - ID, please...

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>The description was cut/paste directly from the "Field Guide". >Maybe you could go through the latest version and point out >other errors? I have to sheepishly admit that I think the TC13/QT13 error in the Field Guide was probably a typo I made myself 5-6 years ago! Tim.

27 years, 9 months

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Need Info on DEC 11/84 Board, M8190

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I have one -AB that has a socket for the FPJ11 and one -AB that doesn't >have a socket installed. Are these the same board? I would gusess so (assuming that it really is a -AB revision and some handles haven't been swapped around.) > Is installing a >socket on the board without one difficult (being it's multilayered)? Not so bad if installed pin-at-a-time. >I have a couple of 1MB M7458-AH (MSV11-RA) PMI boards. Although the >Micronotes refer only to MSV11-J boards, I assume that what it has to >say applies to the MSV11-R also? Amazing! Someone actually read the micronotes! About 3/4 of the Q-bus questions asked here are answered in great technical detail by the micronotes, yet it seems like most folks still ask without bothering to consult them... Yes, the MSV11-R's are just as PMI as the -J's. >I also have a 4MB non-PMI board. What sort of performance loss do I >get by using the non-PMI memory? It depends on the I/O vs CPU memory load. It's a visible performance gain, but not incredible - I'd say 10-30% for most things. > My goal is to run 2.11BSD, so more >memory may be better than faster memory. 1 Mbyte is sufficient for 2.11BSD, and 2 Mbytes is more than enough. Tim.

27 years, 9 months

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Unibus Emulex board - ID, please...

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>This is Q-Bus magtape controller: >TC13: Emulex Pertec-interface tape drive controller. Switchable TU81 >TMSCP (MU:) or TS-11 (MS:) emulation. Nope, a TC13 is MS:-only. I think you're confusing it with the QT13, which is switchable between TMSCP and TS11. Tim.

27 years, 9 months

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Need Info on DEC 11/84 Board, M8190

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 18, 12:14, David C. Jenner wrote: > Subject: Re: Need Info on DEC 11/84 Board, M8190 > CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com wrote: > > > > > A M8190-AB is a 15 MHz (11/73) CPU with "warm floating point", but > > *will* accept the FPJ11 as an option. > > I have one -AB that has a socket for the FPJ11 and one -AB that doesn't > have a socket installed. Are these the same board? Is installing a > socket on the board without one difficult (being it's multilayered)? Normally I'd say that meant the one without the socket wasn't likely to work with the FPJ11 even if you fitted it (they omitted the socket for a reason) but if they have same etch revision, maybe that's not the case. > I have a couple of 1MB M7458-AH (MSV11-RA) PMI boards. Although the > Micronotes refer only to MSV11-J boards, I assume that what it has to > say applies to the MSV11-R also? Yes, put them above the processor and they use PMI; put them below and they run as ordinary QBus memory. > I also have a 4MB non-PMI board. What sort of performance loss do I > get by using the non-PMI memory? My goal is to run 2.11BSD, so more > memory may be better than faster memory. (Of course, I can always try > to find more, faster memory!) There's quite a difference on memory-intensive tasks -- several tens of %. But the good news is that 2.11 wil run fine in 2MB. Whether more is better than faster will depend on how much memory you need, and whether you often use enough to make it do a lot of swapping to disk. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 9 months

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Unibus Emulex board - ID, please...

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>TC1310201-FSH is on the big sticker. It's - surprise! - a TC13. Unibus Pertec-formatted tape controller, does TS11/TU80/TS05 emulation. Tim.

27 years, 9 months

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Unibus Emulex board - ID, please...

by kyrrin＠jps.net

At 15:04 18-10-98 -0400, you wrote: <snip> >TC1310201-FSH is on the big sticker. I recognize it. That's a TC13 (or TC131?) tape controller. It provides control for Pertec-interface drives. As I recall (someone check me on this!) it emulates TS11, but can also handle 6250BPI density drives. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) (Web: http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin) SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

27 years, 9 months

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Unibus Emulex board - ID, please...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 17, 23:50, William Donzelli wrote: > Subject: Unibus Emulex board - ID, please... > I am sorting out my DEC cards, figuring out which ones will be included on > my upcoming "junk sale" list. I came across a Unibus card made by Emulex, > and I can not figure out its model number! > > It has two 50 pin connectors on the end, along with one red LED and a 4 > place DIP switch. Near the middle of the board are two 10 place DIP > switches. Notable chips include a 2901, six 24 pin ROMs, a 40 pin DIP with > a sticker over it, and lots of glue. It could be any of several things, for example it could be a serial line multiplexer, or a Pertec tape drive controler. What's written on the sticker on the 40-pin chip? The first two letters and two digits of the number that's usually on those chips would tell us what it is. Are there any stickers left on the ROMs? Anything silkscreened on the board, or written in the etch? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 9 months

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Need Info on DEC 11/84 Board, M8190

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I'm in Ottawa, and on my obligatory trip to the computer salvage place, >picked up an M8190 Unibus 11/84 card. How do you know that you've got an 11/84 "capable" 11/84? There were many revisions: A M8190 without any suffixes is a 15 MHz (11/73) CPU with an unusable socket for the FPJ11 floating point processor. A M8190-AB is a 15 MHz (11/73) CPU with "warm floating point", but *will* accept the FPJ11 as an option. A M8190-AC is still a 15 MHz (11/73) CPU, with a FPJ11 factory installed. A M8190-AD is a 18 MHz (11/83 or 11/84) CPU with "warm floating point", taking the FPJ11 as an option. A M8190-AE is a 18 MHz (11/83 or 11/84) CPU with the FPJ11 factory installed. Even the above suffixes don't actually pinpoint the exact revision of the CPU with respect to FPJ11 bugs, but they serve as a starting point. To further complicate matters, within digital the CPU is identified differently based on whether it has PMI memory installed or not. (And, of course, it matters whether the PMI comes before or after the CPU in the backplane!) So, for example, you may find a 18 MHz CPU with non-PMI memory called a 11/73, but with PMI memory it's called a 11/83. An 11/84 is a 18MHz KDJ11-B with PMI memory and a KTJ11-B Unibus adapter tacked on. I'm pretty sure the M8190 ROM's are the same whether it's to be used as a 11/84 or an 11/83, and that the Unibus boot ROM functionality is added in the KTJ11-B, which somehow coordinates these issues with the CPU. (It's explained in the KTJ11-B processor handbook, but I never read through it all without falling asleep.) To a large extent, all this confusion is caused by the desire for folks to say "this machine is a 11/x3" where x is 7 or 8. If you really insist on the official classifications, you have to read three of the Micronotes: uNote 25: FPJ11, KDJ11-A compatibility uNote 30: PMI on KDJ11-B and MSV11-J uNote 39: KDJ11-A and -B differences. The above micronotes - and many more - available from: http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardwar… >1. Any other support boards needed, or will this board run standalone, >presuming available RAM? If, indeed, you have the 11/84 capable version, you'll also need the KDJ11-B and the 11/84 backplane, along with PMI memory, to have a real 11/84 CPU. >4. Is anybody else using this card successfully? I've got several in use as "11/73B"'s. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

27 years, 9 months

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Intel single board computer.

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

At 06:06 AM 10/18/98 EDT, you wrote: >Hi: >The bus is Intel Multibus. Look in Intel documentation for Multibus or >80/10A. >Paxton > > Hi Paxton, Thanks, I will look. -Dave

27 years, 9 months

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Need Info on DEC 11/84 Board, M8190

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>>To further complicate matters, within digital the CPU is identified >>differently based on whether it has PMI memory installed or not. >>(And, of course, it matters whether the PMI comes before or after >>the CPU in the backplane!) So, for example, you may find a 18 MHz >>CPU with non-PMI memory called a 11/73, but with PMI memory it's called >>a 11/83. >In fact... you could find the system with PMI memory, but installed >in the wrong place, and it will be identifed - by software - as an >11/73B. If you put the same memory in the right place, it will be >identified as an 11/83. And if you put the FPP in your pocket instead of the CPU board, it won't be identified by the software either :-). Your point is good though - you've got to put PMI memory in the right slot or you don't get the advantages! >>If, indeed, you have the 11/84 capable version, you'll also need the >>KDJ11-B and the 11/84 backplane, along with PMI memory, to have a >>real 11/84 CPU. >But the board with Qbus memory in the qbus of an 11/84 system box >should work... There are lots of never-officially-supported combinations which do work. >I've also taken one of the KDJ11-B 18mhz boards, removed the 18mhz >clock and replaced it with a 20mhz clock... the boot ROM correctly >identifies the clock speed, and the system runs rock solid... Maybe you mean MHz? :-). Sorry, ads where sellers claim spectacular milliHertz performance are one of my pet peeves. (Along with specs calling for compatibility with the ASC-2 character set and construction plans calling for DB-9 connectors!) Though it would be an interesting exercise to construct a Pentium II-type computer based on relays just so that it does top out around 300 milliHertz! One thing I never understood about metric prefixes is how come many of them are misused or, even more mysteriously, not used. For example, everybody around the world uses the term "metric ton" when the perfectly acceptable (and SI-preferred) term "megagram" is exactly equivalent (and to my ears sounds better!) And why say "ten thousand metric tonnes" when "10 gigagrams" is available? Tim "but let's keep the Metric Buttload" Shoppa. (shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com)

27 years, 9 months

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Intel single board computer.

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

I found my first 8080 computer, an Intel single board 80/10A. I have no documentation. Is there a name for the physical bus at the bottom of the board so I can search for its description? The power connections I can trace OK. There is a 86 pin edge connector at 0.156 inch spacing, and another 60 pin edge connector at 0.1 inch spacing. The jumper pins on the board are numbered only, there are 80. Some I have figured out already. Once I find all the power connections (on the 86 pin connector), assume +/- 5 volts and +/- 12 volts, I will try it and test the serial connection (8251). 8 of the jumper pins look like to set the serial clock frequencies. It looks like there is current loop as well as RS-232. Haven't found any jumpers for this yet. There is a single 2716 eprom, don't know what is in it- a monitor or some control program that may not use the serial port at all. There are 2 8255 parallel ic's going to top connectors. -Dave

27 years, 9 months

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Educational subsidies

by backofene＠hotmail.com

The problems your mention is exactly what we had - over & over again. Perhaps our failure rate was due to the fact that all our Eduquests came through the grocery receipts program, we never actually bought one. And through that program, getting repairs was a hassle and they always needed repair. >there's nothing wrong with eduquests at all. in fact, the model 55 is quite >nice. the only problem is lack of many slots inside and only one bay for a >hard drive as well as if the monitor or power supply fail, that's expensive. i >like how the inner tray slides out with your system board and everything on >it. very handy. > > > >In a message dated 10/18/98 9:43:39 AM US Eastern Standard Time, >maxeskin(a)hotmail.com writes: > >> Thanks. Actually, my school just got rid of a lab full of eduquests >> to another school, and we still have one of them in the basement. >> These seem like OK machines, though never tried to use them. They're >> like PS/2 Model 25s only bigger. They have microphone and headphone >> jacks on the front, along with a floppy drive. They're all 486s with >> 16 MB RAM, IIRC. What was wrong with these? > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 9 months

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Educational subsidies

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

there's nothing wrong with eduquests at all. in fact, the model 55 is quite nice. the only problem is lack of many slots inside and only one bay for a hard drive as well as if the monitor or power supply fail, that's expensive. i like how the inner tray slides out with your system board and everything on it. very handy. In a message dated 10/18/98 9:43:39 AM US Eastern Standard Time, maxeskin(a)hotmail.com writes: > Thanks. Actually, my school just got rid of a lab full of eduquests > to another school, and we still have one of them in the basement. > These seem like OK machines, though never tried to use them. They're > like PS/2 Model 25s only bigger. They have microphone and headphone > jacks on the front, along with a floppy drive. They're all 486s with > 16 MB RAM, IIRC. What was wrong with these?

27 years, 9 months

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IBM 5120 at the local thrift store

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I know that. The post that I was correcting was the one with the list of numbers and what computer they were for: > > 5168 XT286 > > > > >5100, IBM Portable > > >5110, similar with optional (?) 8" flops > > >5120, bigger screen, built-in 8" flops > > >5140, Convertible > > >5150, PC > > >5155, Portable PC > > >5160, PC/XT > > >5180, PC/AT Notice that the PC/AT is listed as a 5180, not 5170. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Phil Clayton <handyman(a)sprintmail.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: IBM 5120 at the local thrift store > Date: Friday, October 16, 1998 12:44 PM > > > This machine is an IBM 5126 and it is an AT (286) class machine, read my > last post again its an Automobile Analyzer, not a desktop computer.. I > didn;t make the number up, its on a metal ID tag sticker on the side of > this unit, : Says "IBM 5126" I checked it out very closely.. > > Phil.. >

27 years, 9 months

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System/34 and 36

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>On a system/34, stick something through the slot, and pull the cover >off. The silver thing inside the slot is one end of a catch, which >attaches to the frame. Pushing on the silver thing swings the catch >away. This, I believe, is the reason I've found several sets of keys in various large-scale (i.e. megagram) hauls I've made :-). Tim.

27 years, 9 months

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Educational subsidies

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Thanks. Actually, my school just got rid of a lab full of eduquests to another school, and we still have one of them in the basement. These seem like OK machines, though never tried to use them. They're like PS/2 Model 25s only bigger. They have microphone and headphone jacks on the front, along with a floppy drive. They're all 486s with 16 MB RAM, IIRC. What was wrong with these? > >Never in the 17 years I've been involved in educational computing did >the government ever encourage the use of Apples. As far as I know, the >only way the gov't bore any of the price tag for computers in education >was through grants (platform independent) or at the state level through >negotiating volume pricing (all manufacturers included). Also, in >Virginia in 1988 and 1990, the state had an initiative to get a critical >mass of machines into grade levels 5-8. Some of the state money for >education was distributed in hardware form. There were 2 contracts - >one to Apple and the other to the winner of the DOS machine bid (Tandy). >I think IBM challenged the outcome of the bid process but Tandy >received the contract in the end. Each district then specified which >type of machine they wanted. Apple II GSes or the Tandy 1000TL. In 90 >the Apple offered was the new Mac LC (with no hard drive). The number of >machines you received depended on your school's enrollment. This was a >departure from the usual method of basing state aid on the district's >financial index. > >In the 80s Apple was much more committed to Computers in Education than >any other company. IBM made several abortive attempts, and formed >their Eduquest division to handle the market. The machines were >under-powered and the software was deadly. Apple asked teachers what >they wanted, IBM told us what we should have. Apple also made its >Appleworks software (WP, SS, DB) software available to schools at an >extremely reasonable price. IBMs prices were out of sight. And based >on market share, educational software manufacturers concentrated their >best stuff on the Apple platform. As the percentages changed so did the >mix of available titles. The Mac only label was common in the 80s; now >you rarely see it. > >The IIes were real workhorses in the schools - impossible to kill. The >GS, which was supposed to replace them, really didn't offer too much new >for us other than a 3.5" drive. The Appletalk built-in network was >supposed to be a plus - and it was for printing - but using it for >program sharing was a painfully slow process. I remember telling the >Apple rep that I wasn't sure what the future would be, but it wouldn't >be running at 2 MHz and it wouldn't be black and white (as the Macs were >at that time). I taught BASIC and even Pascal on those old Apples until >88 when we bought Tandys. One lab had Apple cards in them to run the >old software. > >When Apple introduced its color Macs (1990?), they were so much more >expensive than the similarly powered DOS machines that it was no >contest, we joined the Wintel world. Also, we installed our first >Novell network which helped the decision. > >On the West Coast, I think Apple was much more heavily involved in >providing hardware to schools through grants. There were several >showcase "Classrooms of Tomorrow?" And once a district invested in >Apple the tendency was to continue buying the same product. > >The introduction of Windows 95 also did a lot to change encourage >education to change platforms. > > > > > > >>Slashdot.org has a story explaining that the UK school system can't >>afford NT 5 and are considering another OS. In light of this, people >>were bringing up Apple's success in schools in contrast to the current >>situation. However, I have heard that the only reason why Apples were >>common in schools was that the gov't bore some of the price tag to >>encourage use of Apples, and Apple didn't pay as much attention to >>education as is generally thought. Is this true? What were the >>particulars of Apple educational licensing? >> >>______________________________________________________ >>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 9 months

1
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Hi

by dogas＠leading.net

Can anyone offer some insight on a basic four. Its a fridge size mini with two disk packs (2324-200) and two 'external' double 8" floppies (3200A) and I've heard 'business basic' mentioned in the same breath as this beast (which now occupies a corner of my living room.... tea... anyone... - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 9 months

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1
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Educational subsidies

by backofene＠hotmail.com

Never in the 17 years I've been involved in educational computing did the government ever encourage the use of Apples. As far as I know, the only way the gov't bore any of the price tag for computers in education was through grants (platform independent) or at the state level through negotiating volume pricing (all manufacturers included). Also, in Virginia in 1988 and 1990, the state had an initiative to get a critical mass of machines into grade levels 5-8. Some of the state money for education was distributed in hardware form. There were 2 contracts - one to Apple and the other to the winner of the DOS machine bid (Tandy). I think IBM challenged the outcome of the bid process but Tandy received the contract in the end. Each district then specified which type of machine they wanted. Apple II GSes or the Tandy 1000TL. In 90 the Apple offered was the new Mac LC (with no hard drive). The number of machines you received depended on your school's enrollment. This was a departure from the usual method of basing state aid on the district's financial index. In the 80s Apple was much more committed to Computers in Education than any other company. IBM made several abortive attempts, and formed their Eduquest division to handle the market. The machines were under-powered and the software was deadly. Apple asked teachers what they wanted, IBM told us what we should have. Apple also made its Appleworks software (WP, SS, DB) software available to schools at an extremely reasonable price. IBMs prices were out of sight. And based on market share, educational software manufacturers concentrated their best stuff on the Apple platform. As the percentages changed so did the mix of available titles. The Mac only label was common in the 80s; now you rarely see it. The IIes were real workhorses in the schools - impossible to kill. The GS, which was supposed to replace them, really didn't offer too much new for us other than a 3.5" drive. The Appletalk built-in network was supposed to be a plus - and it was for printing - but using it for program sharing was a painfully slow process. I remember telling the Apple rep that I wasn't sure what the future would be, but it wouldn't be running at 2 MHz and it wouldn't be black and white (as the Macs were at that time). I taught BASIC and even Pascal on those old Apples until 88 when we bought Tandys. One lab had Apple cards in them to run the old software. When Apple introduced its color Macs (1990?), they were so much more expensive than the similarly powered DOS machines that it was no contest, we joined the Wintel world. Also, we installed our first Novell network which helped the decision. On the West Coast, I think Apple was much more heavily involved in providing hardware to schools through grants. There were several showcase "Classrooms of Tomorrow?" And once a district invested in Apple the tendency was to continue buying the same product. The introduction of Windows 95 also did a lot to change encourage education to change platforms. >Slashdot.org has a story explaining that the UK school system can't >afford NT 5 and are considering another OS. In light of this, people >were bringing up Apple's success in schools in contrast to the current >situation. However, I have heard that the only reason why Apples were >common in schools was that the gov't bore some of the price tag to >encourage use of Apples, and Apple didn't pay as much attention to >education as is generally thought. Is this true? What were the >particulars of Apple educational licensing? > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 9 months

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Intel single board computer.

by Innfogra＠aol.com

Hi: The bus is Intel Multibus. Look in Intel documentation for Multibus or 80/10A. Paxton

27 years, 9 months

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Need Info on DEC 11/84 Board, M8190

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Hi All: I'm in Ottawa, and on my obligatory trip to the computer salvage place, picked up an M8190 Unibus 11/84 card. It's a 4-finger LSI board, connectors for console and likely a cabinet kit of some sort. I'd like to try this board, my questions are: 1. Any other support boards needed, or will this board run standalone, presuming available RAM? 2. What kind of backplane is required? I have an 11/45 backplane but this wouldn't do because of the extensive point-to-point wiring for the CPU cards, etc. 3. Any way to run this is the "straight through" section of the Unibus that exists in the high slot numbers of older Unibus' like the 11/45? 4. Is anybody else using this card successfully? Thanks in advance, Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca

27 years, 9 months

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RX50 / RX33 Questions related to PDP-11's

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>However, no matter what I try I can't get them (RX33's) to work when the ESDI >controller is in place. On that note I'm giving up on this line of attack >at least for the time being. It sounds to me like you've got a backplane DMA continuity grant problem. What cards are in the backplane? What slots are they in? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

27 years, 9 months

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System/34 and 36

by rws＠ais.net

Hi everybody, I made my first major equipment move today. It was a System/34 system unit (5340), a System/36 system unit (5360), two band printers (3262), and two tape drives (8809). About 5,000 lb. as near as I can figure. Nothing fell over or hurt anybody- very encouraging for the next move (although now I'm out of room!) My biggest, burning question is this: How do you get those darn covers on the side of the S/36 open? All it has is a little 1/4" long slot. Probing around inside was completely fruitless. I can see a black plastic piece inside through the slot, but pushing, pulling, lifting, or pushing down on it doesn't do anything. Any help would be much appreciated. Richard Schauer rws(a)ais.net

27 years, 9 months

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Unibus Emulex board - ID, please...

by william＠ans.net

I am sorting out my DEC cards, figuring out which ones will be included on my upcoming "junk sale" list. I came across a Unibus card made by Emulex, and I can not figure out its model number! It has two 50 pin connectors on the end, along with one red LED and a 4 place DIP switch. Near the middle of the board are two 10 place DIP switches. Notable chips include a 2901, six 24 pin ROMs, a 40 pin DIP with a sticker over it, and lots of glue. What is this thing called? I would like to get a good idea before I stick it into the sale. William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

27 years, 9 months

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Ultrix installation media

by sethm＠loomcom.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 865 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981016/73f21477/at…

27 years, 9 months

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Need Info on DEC 11/84 Board, M8190

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I'm in Ottawa, and on my obligatory trip to the computer salvage place, >picked up an M8190 Unibus 11/84 card. > >It's a 4-finger LSI board, connectors for console and likely a cabinet >kit of some sort. Both connectors connect to the same cab kit... though it isn't required. The console terminal baud rate can be set in the switches on the board, and the on-board LEDs will display the state which would be displayed in the cab kit LED display... >I'd like to try this board, my questions are: > >1. Any other support boards needed, or will this board run standalone, >presuming available RAM? Memory... any qbus memory will do if all you want is to get the machine up and running. A 2x5 to DB25 connector for the console terminal. A console terminal. A disk interface. A QBUS system box, or an 11/84 system box (which is qbus in the first part). >2. What kind of backplane is required? I have an 11/45 backplane but this >wouldn't do because of the extensive point-to-point wiring for the CPU >cards, etc. Sorry, the board plugs into a QBUS portion of the 11/84 system box. It will not plug into a unibus. >3. Any way to run this is the "straight through" section of the Unibus >that exists in the high slot numbers of older Unibus' like the 11/45? Nope... >4. Is anybody else using this card successfully? In qbus machines - yes... several of my systems are 11/83s (KDJ11-B at 18mhz, with PMI memory). I've even modified one to be running at 20mhz (mentioned in another message) -- I call it an 11/83plus. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 9 months

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Need Info on DEC 11/84 Board, M8190

by mbg＠world.std.com

>To further complicate matters, within digital the CPU is identified >differently based on whether it has PMI memory installed or not. >(And, of course, it matters whether the PMI comes before or after >the CPU in the backplane!) So, for example, you may find a 18 MHz >CPU with non-PMI memory called a 11/73, but with PMI memory it's called >a 11/83. In fact... you could find the system with PMI memory, but installed in the wrong place, and it will be identifed - by software - as an 11/73B. If you put the same memory in the right place, it will be identified as an 11/83. >If, indeed, you have the 11/84 capable version, you'll also need the >KDJ11-B and the 11/84 backplane, along with PMI memory, to have a >real 11/84 CPU. But the board with Qbus memory in the qbus of an 11/84 system box should work... I've also taken one of the KDJ11-B 18mhz boards, removed the 18mhz clock and replaced it with a 20mhz clock... the boot ROM correctly identifies the clock speed, and the system runs rock solid... be warned - not all boards will do so, from what I understand... your milage may vary... etc... If you make the change and it doesn't work, don't blame me... (save the old clock). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 9 months

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Need Info on DEC 11/84 Board, M8190

by mbg＠world.std.com

>> Actually, even though it came out of a Unibus machine, it's a Qbus CPU >> card. > >I assume that you mean it's a Unibus version of the 11/73. I can't >imagine that it would be usable in a Q bus backplane. The pinouts are >quite different! Nope, the KDJ11-B which plugs into an 11/84 can also be plugged into a Qbus box and work... The fact is that the 11/84 actually has two buses, the qbus, on which the processor and memory reside (as well as the q-u bus converter), and the unibus, in which the rest of the options reside. (Yes, Tim is right about the official boards which go in specific boxes and are marketed and sold as specific systems) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 9 months

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Need Info on DEC 11/84 Board, M8190

by mbg＠world.std.com

>So this is a Q bus card, that can be plugged into a Q bus backplane >without smoke generation?? Sure is... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 9 months

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Need Info on DEC 11/84 Board, M8190

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 17, 15:24, Kevin McQuiggin wrote: > Subject: Re: Need Info on DEC 11/84 Board, M8190 > So this is a Q bus card, that can be plugged into a Q bus backplane > without smoke generation?? It is indeed. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 9 months

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Sparc Supply Schematics

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Assuming it does you any good -- most of the paths are between the pins of two custom chips! > >> I have a friend who has 6 Sparc SLC's with either dud power supplies or >> monitor sync problems, is the schematics for the power supplies available > >I've found that schematics for modern computer stuff are almost never >available. And it's quicker to figure out how the thing works yourself >(including tracing out any bits of schematics that you need) than to >battle with the so-called technical support line for information ;-). > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 9 months

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Anyone need a duodisk?

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Will the DuoDisk work with an Apple //c? -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Aaron Christopher Finney <aaron(a)wfi-inc.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Anyone need a duodisk? > Date: Saturday, October 17, 1998 3:14 PM > > I picked up an Apple duodisk this morning for $1, unknown condition. > Anyone want it? > > Aaron >

27 years, 9 months

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Need Info on DEC 11/84 Board, M8190

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I assume that you mean it's a Unibus version of the 11/73. I can't imagine >that it would be usable in a Q bus backplane. The pinouts are quite >different! That's what the special backplane wiring and the KTJ11-B Unibus adapter take care of. Tim.

27 years, 9 months

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Need Info: Unibus Ethernet Card, M7792

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Hi Again All: In the same trip to the scrap place I bought an M7792 DEUNA card. From the DEC Field Guide it's unclear whether this card is usable by itself, or needs a companion card M7793, to bring Ethernet connectivity to a Unibus machine. Anybosy know anything further? I'd like to have Ethernet on my 11/45 once I solve its (probable) power supply problem. Thanks, Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca

27 years, 9 months

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Educational subsidies

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

More precisely, what were the particulars of Apple's sales to schools? > >> What were the >> particulars of Apple educational licensing? > >Um, what was there to license? You bought an Apple ][, you got Integer >Basic. You bought an Apple ][+, you got Applesoft. You buy a Disk ][, >you DOS 3.2 (and, later when it came out, DOS 3.3 free of charge.) > >Are you possibly asking about non-operating system hardware? > >Tim. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 9 months

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Educational subsidies

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I'm almost embarassed to say: I believe it was a site that compared PCs and Macs. If it was a ruse, it was very sophisticated for a person who writes an 'intelligent comparison' of PCs and Macs. Maybe they were paid off by you-know-who ... >> Slashdot.org has a story explaining that the UK school system can't >> afford NT 5 and are considering another OS. In light of this, people >> were bringing up Apple's success in schools in contrast to the current >> situation. However, I have heard that the only reason why Apples were >> common in schools was that the gov't bore some of the price tag to >> encourage use of Apples, and Apple didn't pay as much attention to >> education as is generally thought. Is this true? What were the >> particulars of Apple educational licensing? > >Well, I don't know about that. Every school I came up through had at >least an Apple lab. In fact, all the schools I attended (Los Angeles >Unified) had exclusively Apple ][s, and it wasn't until my senior year of >high school (1989) when I moved to northern California and attended a >totally new school that the school had an IBM lab, but they still had an >Apple lab (which was barely used until I raised a stink about it, and >encouraged the teachers to begin using it more to teach basic computer >skills, which they did). > >Apple very actively marketed to schools, and as far as I know had special >deals in place to encourage wide-spread adoption in schools. If I'm >not mistaken, the schools were Apple's biggest market, and continued to >use Apple ][s well after they fell out of favor in the general >marketplace. > >Where did you get your information from? > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 09/21/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 9 months

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Need Info on DEC 11/84 Board, M8190

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>My board says simply "M8190", the etching says "M8190", part number is >"5016017-01-D1-P3", etch also says "KDJ11-B CPU", there are 3x 28-pin ROM >sockets on the left hand side, 1x 40-pin on the top right, all empty. Without any rev letters after the M8190, what you've got is almost certainly the old 15MHz non-FPA-capable KDJ11B. Probably very similar to the CPU in the Micro-11/73 you got from SERF at UBC. (Or, at least I think like the Micro-11/73 I seem to recall you getting from SERF. There was a Micro-11/23 and a KA650 in a BA23 I also seem to recall...) Tim.

27 years, 9 months

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Need Info: Unibus Ethernet Card, M7792

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>In the same trip to the scrap place I bought an M7792 DEUNA card. From the >DEC Field Guide it's unclear whether this card is usable by itself, or >needs a companion card M7793, to bring Ethernet connectivity to a Unibus >machine. You also need the M7793, in addition to a DEUNA cab kit. If you get a chance, grab the DELUA instead - it's a single-board Unibus Ethernet adapter. Tim.

27 years, 9 months

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Anyone need a duodisk?

by aaron＠wfi-inc.com

I picked up an Apple duodisk this morning for $1, unknown condition. Anyone want it? Aaron

27 years, 9 months

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Morrow Laptop ID

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

I have found a Morrow laptop without any obvious model identification. While it is something of a wreck, I would at least like to know what it is. I've never seen a Morrow in Australia before. It is black, rather cheaply made with lots of wiring mods to the board. The CPU is an 80C86 The board has a 1984 copyright and a sticker "PCT 6065" It is unusual in that it opens with the keyboard flipping forward and the bulk of the machine with the small LCD type screen standing up. It is however quite stable like this. The word "Morrow" is embossed on the case and there is a nameplate with little on it but "Morrow Designs" and an indecipherable serial number. It has 2 X 5.25" floppys only and a battery compartment. This example obviously stopped working a long time ago and someone has disassembled it leaving all the cables disconnected and all the screws missing. Anyone recognise this? Hans Olminkhof

27 years, 9 months

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DECMate stuff

by kyrrin＠jps.net

As if the H89 wasn't enough, I've also got the following available on origanal DEC diskettes. DM/WPS System Diskette, V2.0 DM/WPS Utility Diskette, V2.0 Spelling, (c) Houghton Mifflin, V2.0 CBI - Intro to WPS - Drive 0 CBI - Intro to WPS - Drive 1 And, finally, I have a DECMate III APU board in pretty darn good shape. I'd like to move both the diskettes and the card as a set, though I will consider selling the disk set in one lot and the card in another. As with the H89 -- Make me an offer! Shipping would be cheap for these. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) (Web: http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin) SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

27 years, 9 months

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