Rescued a pair of Zenith Z-100s this weekend. Both an All-In-One
model and a Low-Profile model along with boxes of doc, parts and
software. They were sitting out in the garage of an old friend whom
I hadn't seen for years. When I told him I collected computers he
told me that he wouldn't pay me any more than $10 to haul them
off. :-) They're pretty dirty but otherwise seem to be in great shape.
These are cool little dual processor (8088/8085) S-100 systems.
Also picked up boxes of old software manuals and lots of old 5.25"
disks. Many are originals, others are just blanks.
The moral? Be sure and tell everyone you know about your
strange hobby, never know what might turn up.
Now, in the User Manual, they talk about CP/M-85. I've heard of
CP/M-80, CP/M-86 and CP/M-68K but not 85. I'd guess it is a
version specific to the 8085? Didn't know they made it. Anyone
know anything about it?
-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw(a)trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel T. Burrows <dburrows(a)netpath.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, 23 November 1998 13:53
Subject: Re: 85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?
>I have not tried using 2 RD5x drives in a BA23 because the power supply
>can't handle it according to the manuals.
Now that's something I didn't think of. Thank you, that could have been
very embarrassing.
This particular MVII has a single RD54 and a TK50.
I don't have any docs, so can one of the decsperts confirm this please?
Cheers
Geoff Roberts
Computer Systems Manager
Saint Marks College
Port Pirie South Australia.
My ICQ# is 1970476
Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile)
61-8-8633-0619 (Home)
61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct)
61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)
Work is continuing on my Exidy site. So far I've placed the
_Guided_Tour_ booklet which came with the Sorcerer as well as
the first 3 chapters of the _Standard_BASIC_ manual. The other
chapters will be following as I complete them. I've also placed
some PROM dumps sent to me by Pete Turnbull. He has also
sent some postscript and asm listings which I'll have up there
shortly. Lots more to go.
-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw(a)trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, 23 November 1998 9:17
Subject: RE: DEC VT102
>Big time right on. Being an exDEC terminals and printers widget I have
>yet to find a terminal emulation on the PC that does a correct
>VT100(series) or remotely passable Vt2xx/3xx even the the latter have
>very similar key layouts. They are universally broken.
Have to agree, I have tried most everything from crappy freeware/shareware
to
ridiculously overpriced NFS/X/whatever suites. All suck somewhat, in
different ways.
If it's a windoze 3 or 95 attempt, the suction increases by orders of
magnitude.
Nothing beats a real DEC VT.
Cheers
Geoff
Computer Room Internet Cafe
Port Pirie
South Australia.
netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au
Hi there.
Can anybody tell me what the first external hard drive for a Macintosh was?
I am trying desperately to remember who made it and how much memory it had
and how much it cost. I remember that it was very big and very expensive.
Any insight would be tremendously appreciated...
xoxo van
........................................................................
@
/
/ Shift Lever
(D)/
\===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan ===
BNL |- - - - Phase Shifter - - - -|--/ Get Wired!
- ------------]=[]@----------------------@ 415.276.8424
Trans- ] ]]] (A) futura lounge 415.647.4523 (B) ? (C) SELECT GAME
mission ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
] ]]
71 ------------] web superstation of the stars...
van burnham http://www.futuraworld.com
designer
wired digital 660 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 usa
........................................................................
van(a)wired.com van(a)futuraworld.com pingpong(a)spy.net vanburnham(a)aol.com
< The best emulation for a vt I've found is decterm. Stands to reason, I
< After that is Procomm, after that is the emulator that came with pathwor
Procomm is pretty good. It's advantage is the parts I consider the most
broken are the keyboard and that configurable. I still use V1.0! I
consider the scripting language it's greatest asset.
Allison
< I have not tried using 2 RD5x drives in a BA23 because the power supply
< can't handle it according to the manuals.
Ran one for years with two RD54s, DEQNA, 13mb, DHV11, TK50 controller,
LPV11, RQDX3. The description is so you know it was a full box. Insure
the internal power cable is good and the ECOd one.
Allison
< >control codes. As your VT102 doesn't do Tek 4014, this isn't
< >applicable.
<
< Understood.
Vt100s do have line drawing character set, so if you had the right
translator... graphics. Vt125 however does have sixel mode (bit
graphics). Then again a vt340 does color and most of the DEC graphics
modes including Tek.
Allison
< I have found some real terminals that are very close clones of the VT100
< I picked up a rather nice Trend terminal with an LCD display that clones
< the VT100 almost perfectly, even the setup modes are similar.
True to a point. Long story follows. A friend of mine was the manager
of the Terminal and printers QA group. They tested product to DEC STDs
and also previous products. IE: if a vt100 did it right or wrong they
knew it and the next generation would do that too in vt100 mode. VERY
FEW VT100 closed were better than 95% exact. None of the bugs they had
were subtle, others glaring. Vt100 was the most widely emulated, cloned
and flat out copied terminal made. It's easy to say that as there were
copies of vt100s, the vt220 also emulated vt100, the vt320, 330, 340 and
420 and a bunch of other along the way. then there were the clones of
each one those.
All one ever needed to do a good clone/emulation of vt100 is the user
manual and a vt100 or even better the technical manual. Worse yet the
ANSI terminal spec. Oh, the vt100 was one of the first ANSI terminals
that also did private escapes (dec private) correctly.
< Time to drive up there and use a VT100 keyboard as a LART until they
< finally learn how to count function keys.
It's a very durable keyboard but it would still ruin it to no effect.
< Knowing VT100s, they'd probably work when they arrived ;-)
I've seen boxes that test that theory.
Allison
Why do you think that is? It shouldn't be too difficult to duplicate a
VT100; after all, the specs are available. I do agree with you, though.
Every communications program I've used always messes up on _something_.
While one might work with BBS A but give weird characters with B, the other
one is the other way around, even if they both use VT100, or ANSI, or
whatever the case might be. I think it may partially be the fault of the BBS
program, but when connecting to a DEC system, this is of course not an
issue.
>Big time right on. Being an exDEC terminals and printers widget I have
>yet to find a terminal emulation on the PC that does a correct
>VT100(series) or remotely passable Vt2xx/3xx even the the latter have
>very similar key layouts. They are universally broken.
>Allison
>
>Why do you think that is? It shouldn't be too difficult to duplicate a
>VT100; after all, the specs are available.
Yeah - that's what all the emulator writers think, too :-).
> I do agree with you, though.
>Every communications program I've used always messes up on _something_.
>While one might work with BBS A but give weird characters with B, the other
>one is the other way around, even if they both use VT100, or ANSI, or
>whatever the case might be.
This is sort-of a "creeping freaturitis". Some emulator supports
some non-standard command/control string, the BBS writers use it
and include this string in their display. Another emulator - or
the real terminal - makes garbage on the screen when presented
with this code. Call up the folks who wrote the BBS, it'll turn
out they never saw the real terminal.
> I think it may partially be the fault of the BBS
>program, but when connecting to a DEC system, this is of course not an
>issue.
And other times the emulator doesn't do everything that it's supposed
to!
Tim. (shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com)
I have a mfm 3.5" drive I just got and would like data on it.
it is a WD10i, also marked Fuji Electric FK301 (also 508100625). Looks
to be '84-85 vintage from date codes.
Size, geometry info is desired.
Allison
I have not tried using 2 RD5x drives in a BA23 because the power supply
can't handle it according to the manuals.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerome Fine <jhfine(a)idirect.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: 85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?
>Daniel T. Burrows wrote:
> The RD53's were Micropolis 1325's. If you can find a 1325 you need to
> install a jumper in R7 location on the main board to make it look like an
> RD53. Also install jumper blocks on W1, W2, and DS3.
> Dan
Jerome Fine replies:
Almost correct, as far as I know, but if you do so, you will likely
lose DUA0: if it is not WRITE PROTECTED when you boot.
IF YOU ARE USING TWO HARD DRIVES IN A BA23
BOX, YOU MUST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SET THE SECOND
DRIVE AS DS4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The last time (and only) I set both drives on DS3, I lost the format
on both and could not recover DU0: - it was on a PDP-11, but
I doubt that the DS3 / DS4 setting requirements are different on
a uVAX II.
Note that the settings on a BA123 with the special I/O distribution
board in slot 13 are very different in that 4 hard drives are allowed
of you don't have any floppies AND all hard drives are set for DS3!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Computer Room Internet Cafe <netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 5:36 AM
> Subject: 85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?
>
> >Hi all,
> >
> >Just pulled a Micropolis 85Mb MFM Hdd out of a genuine, but dead, IBM
286.
> >Model is 1335, and is also marked as being an ST506.
> >Am I correct in assuming it would work in a Microvax II that presently
has
> >a single RD53, as a second drive?
> >If so, is there deep magic involved in the install?
> >I seem to recall seeing something about needing special
> >software that is not supplied with the Microvax to put in a
> >non DEC drive.
> >The Microvax is currently running VMS 5.4
> >
> >TIA
> >
> >Geoff Roberts
> >Computer Room Internet Cafe
> >Port Pirie
> >South Australia.
> >netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au
> >
On a PDP-11, there are DEC formatting programs, but I don't know
what you use on a VAX/VMS? I suggest that you take great care.
I also suggest that you either backup DUA0:
Also, the format for an RD53 on an RQDX2 is incompatible with the
format on an RQDX3.
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict
(Almost no one wants Y2K Patches for any version of RT-11)
>I have a VT 102. The only info I can find thru searches is that it is very
>similar to the VT 100 and has some sort of paging capability like a
>Tektroniks 4014 terminal.
Not exactly - the VT102 features were usually called "local editing".
The 102 also came, by default, with 132-column capability and a few
other bells and whistles that were options on the VT100.
I'm not sure what you mean by "paging capability"...
The VT132 added block-mode capability, ala IBM mainframe terminals.
> Also, there were a lot of pointers to terminal
>emulators that have VT 102 compatibility. No help from them either.
You didn't find Rick Shuford's archive of terminal info, then :-).
The DEC-Specific page starts at
http://www.cs.utk.edu/~shuford/terminal/dec.html
and the more generic terminal-cell page starts at
http://www.cs.utk.edu/~shuford/terminal_index.html
Rick's pages are a truly wonderful model of what web pages should be.
Many good indices to useful information, remarkably little self-
congratulatory graphics!
>Could anybody point me to info on this terminal or at least describe what I
>have got and if it would be useable with VMS (the paging feature)?
VMS will work quite happily with the VT102. What exactly do you want
to make it do?
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
> <begin quote>
> The xterm program is a terminal emulator for the X Window System. It
> The VT102 and Tektronix 4014 terminals each have their own window so that
> you can edit text in one
> and look at graphics in the other at the same time.
> <end quote>
This means that xterm has two distinct windows: VT102 and Tek 4014.
It'll switch between them when receiving the right control codes.
>>You didn't find Rick Shuford's archive of terminal info, then :-).
>No, dang it! Here we go again, like you were questioning a few days ago
>Tim: why don't some things get indexed?
Life isn't fair. Many search engines tend to be heavily oriented
towards flashy, glitzy sites that overload on META tags, have little
in the way of actual information, but lots of useless pictures.
(Sorry if I just insulted 97% of the web sites in existence, but
it's true.) Some search sites pride themselves at removing web
pages from their index if the information is more than a few weeks
old. (Hotbot, in particular, though others are now adopting this
strategy in response to hotbot's heavy TV advertising.)
>>>Could anybody point me to info on this terminal or at least describe what I
>>>have got and if it would be useable with VMS (the paging feature)?
>>VMS will work quite happily with the VT102. What exactly do you want
>>to make it do?
>Obviously, I would need some sort of way to use the windowing feature of
>the 102.
I think that you're talking about the xterm auto-switching between
Tek 4014 window and VT102 window when receiving the appropriate
control codes. As your VT102 doesn't do Tek 4014, this isn't
applicable.
(For those who haven't been using X-windows for the past decade,
"xterm" is a commonly used terminal emulator for X-windows.)
One gripe about terminal emulators: *never ever* assume that
because an emulator supports an escape code, feature, or function
key, that the item being emulated supports it. An example from
an article of mine that Rick thought was relevant enough to
include in his archive
(http://www.cs.utk.edu/~shuford/terminal/emulation_how_to_news.txt):
The worst offender I've found is a commercial editor that requires
VT100 users to hit F5 through F10 to access certain abilities
that are rather necessary - such as exiting the editor. Despite
repeated phone calls to the company, I've yet to convince them that
a VT100 does NOT have F5 through F10 function keys. They claim that
because some popular Windows-based emulators implement these function
keys in VT100 mode, a real VT100 must as well. Arrggghhh!!!! I'm
tempted to deliver a half-dozen true VT100's to their corporate
offices via catapult.
> From the Neosoft site mentioned in the last msg to Zane, xterm
>would have to be used but it won't work on VMS as it doesn't run the X
>windowing system.
Gees, that's news to me. I've been running X-windows, and all the
big X-windows applications, under VMS for most of a decade now.
> However, am I correct in assuming
>DECwindows under VMS is the ticket here?
Yep. DECWindows = X-windows+Motif. Don't get too wrapped up in names :-)
When you do manage to get it up and going, head straight for one of
the big OpenVMS freeware sites (for example,
http://www.decus.org/libcatalog/description_html/vs0185.html
) and have some fun!
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
In that heap of goodies I'm keeping from that DEC Haul back in the summer I
found a DEC 5.25" floppy disk package containing five floppies of the
following:
BL-T540B-M1 CZUFDB1 USER TESTS
BL-T541B-M1 CZXD1B1 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 1
BL-T542B-MC CZXD2B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 2
BL-T565B-MC CZXD3B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 3
BL-T583B-MC CZXD4B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 4
All evidently are diagnostic tests for some sort of DEC machine which uses
a 5.25" floppy drive. Could anyone identify which machine given the above
info?
Thanks, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/
< Just pulled a Micropolis 85Mb MFM Hdd out of a genuine, but dead, IBM 28
< Model is 1335, and is also marked as being an ST506.
It's mfm so it can be connected if the jumpers are set right. No I don't
have that info for 1335, only 1325s.
< Am I correct in assuming it would work in a Microvax II that presently h
< a single RD53, as a second drive?
likely.
< If so, is there deep magic involved in the install?
two things, it will have to be LLformatted (you need standalone utility)
and the drives jumpers ahve to be set right.
< I seem to recall seeing something about needing special
< software that is not supplied with the Microvax to put in a
< non DEC drive. The Microvax is currently running VMS 5.4
Yes a standalone formatter.
Allison
< VT100 users to hit F5 through F10 to access certain abilities
< that are rather necessary - such as exiting the editor. Despite
< repeated phone calls to the company, I've yet to convince them that
< a VT100 does NOT have F5 through F10 function keys. They claim that
< because some popular Windows-based emulators implement these function
< keys in VT100 mode, a real VT100 must as well. Arrggghhh!!!! I'm
My answer to them is, if I jump off a bridge will you too? They may have
confused Vt100 with Vt220(and later) as they do have the function keys.
What PCs do/did should never count as valid.
< tempted to deliver a half-dozen true VT100's to their corporate
< offices via catapult.
Tim,
Big time right on. Being an exDEC terminals and printers widget I have
yet to find a terminal emulation on the PC that does a correct
VT100(series) or remotely passable Vt2xx/3xx even the the latter have
very similar key layouts. They are universally broken.
My local solution is the use of RealTerminal (TM) IE: a in the flesh
vt100/102, H19, Vt320, VT340 or vt1200. I know they are honest.
Allison
> Jerome Fine
> RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict
> (Almost no one wants Y2K Patches for any version of RT-11)
I don't know about "patches", but Compaq and Mentec already have
orders for several hundred copies of RT-11 5.7, the Y2K compliant
version, which began shipping late last week.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
> Big time right on. Being an exDEC terminals and printers widget I have
> yet to find a terminal emulation on the PC that does a correct
> VT100(series) or remotely passable Vt2xx/3xx even the the latter have
> very similar key layouts. They are universally broken.
The vast majority of emulators out there (both freeware and commercial)
are badly broken. The closest I've found is:
1. MS-DOS Kermit from http://www.columbia.edu/~kermit/ (unfortunately,
this page seems to be broken this weekend; but you can always ftp
from ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/
2. DEC LK250 keyboard (VT-220-type key layout, plugs into a PC-clone.)
3. The LK250 config file that comes with MS-DOS Kermit.
There are some failings of the above combination, but it works
fine with me for 99.99% of the stuff I have to do.
A very excellent emulator test is Dickey's "vttest"; see
ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/vttest/ for details.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
The RD53's were Micropolis 1325's. If you can find a 1325 you need to
install a jumper in R7 location on the main board to make it look like an
RD53. Also install jumper blocks on W1, W2, and DS3.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Computer Room Internet Cafe <netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 5:36 AM
Subject: 85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?
>Hi all,
>
>Just pulled a Micropolis 85Mb MFM Hdd out of a genuine, but dead, IBM 286.
>Model is 1335, and is also marked as being an ST506.
>Am I correct in assuming it would work in a Microvax II that presently has
>a single RD53, as a second drive?
>If so, is there deep magic involved in the install?
>I seem to recall seeing something about needing special
>software that is not supplied with the Microvax to put in a
>non DEC drive.
>The Microvax is currently running VMS 5.4
>
>TIA
>
>Geoff Roberts
>Computer Room Internet Cafe
>Port Pirie
>South Australia.
>netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au
>
I am having no success getting the files from the list server. Here are the
commands I am issuing. I address these commands to listproc(a)u.washington.edu
with no subject heading.
First I did:
index classiccmp
This gives me a list of all the files available.. This works. Then I did:
get classiccmp classiccmp.log9706
For some reason i never get the file sent to me.. this has worked for me in
the past.
I have a VT 102. The only info I can find thru searches is that it is very
similar to the VT 100 and has some sort of paging capability like a
Tektroniks 4014 terminal. Also, there were a lot of pointers to terminal
emulators that have VT 102 compatibility. No help from them either.
Could anybody point me to info on this terminal or at least describe what I
have got and if it would be useable with VMS (the paging feature)?
Thanks for the help!
Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/
Marvin wrote:
>Having *finally* gotten a CD-R unit hooked up, it occurred to me that
>perhaps recording all the cassette data tapes to CD would be a worthwhile
>thing to do. Has anyone else tried this? I would think it would be
trivial
>to hook up a stereo to computers, and thus load both data and programs.
You mean record the audio on to a different track? Yes, it certainly is
possible. There was a commercial device out for the Sinclair Spectrum in
1990 that included 30 games on one CD. I think it was made by Codemasters.
I've only seen it once at a car boot sale but it appeared to be a basic to
be a basic CD player with some leads to plug into the tape port.
< >it is a WD10i, also marked Fuji Electric FK301 (also 508100625). Look
<
<Micro House doesn't give jumper settings for it, but it does list the f
<
<
<4 heads, 306 cylinders, 17 sect/track, 10 MB formatted capacity.
There are few jumpers and they are drive select and the like.
I was more curious than anything else. It's a working drive! I pulled
it from a YATUXT (Yet Another TUrbo XT).
Since I have a few of these I pulled the drives, ISA boards and any loose
components, the rest are junk.
Allison
I seem to be once again in need of 16mb ISA token ring cards. I don't
suppose someone out there has any they're selling real cheap/free?
IBM-branded ISA preferable... must be capable of 16mb.
Also, if anyone has any 486 EISA motherboards that are capable of fitting
in modern mid-tower and desktop cases, I might be interested. (The only
one's I've got (a couple of huge ALR's with the CPU and cache on
daughtercards) are waaay to large to fit into anything but the larger
tower cases...which I don't have any extra of either!)
thanks,
af
---
Adam Fritzler
{ afritz(a)delphid.ml.org , afritz(a)iname.com}
http://delphid.ml.org/~afritz/
"Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were."
-- Chicago Reader, 15 Oct 1982
Hi all,
Just pulled a Micropolis 85Mb MFM Hdd out of a genuine, but dead, IBM 286.
Model is 1335, and is also marked as being an ST506.
Am I correct in assuming it would work in a Microvax II that presently has
a single RD53, as a second drive?
If so, is there deep magic involved in the install?
I seem to recall seeing something about needing special
software that is not supplied with the Microvax to put in a
non DEC drive.
The Microvax is currently running VMS 5.4
TIA
Geoff Roberts
Computer Room Internet Cafe
Port Pirie
South Australia.
netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au
They have it on their Faxback service 800-262-9867 then 3 for the faxback
service.
Dan
>Does anyone have a spare copy of the Maxtor XT-2190 manual, or is anyone
>willing to make me a photocopy of it? A Maxtor XT-1140 manual would be
>almost as good.
>
>Thanks!
>Eric
>
On Nov 16, 5:39, Doug Spence wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Nov 1998, Tony Duell wrote:
> > The 2114 is getting hard to find now. A few companies still have them
in
> > stock, but AFAIK it's no longer in production.
>
> Ack! I need a bunch of these to get a PET 2001 going (all of the 6550s
> are bad, and I was told that the 2114 is the same part?) and a VIC 3K RAM
> Expander fixed.
They're NOT the same. I can't find a pinout, but they're a different
(physical) size and ISTR they use different voltages as well. MPS6550s
will be very hard to find as they were never second-sourced by anyone, as
far as I know. They're 22-pin (0.4" wide instead of 0.3") 4096-bit (1024 x
4) SRAMs. 2114's are 18-pin 4096-bit (1024 x 4) SRAMs.
Even MOS Technology didn't make them for very long, which is why only the
earliest PETs used them.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
First, I would like to register my *profound* gratitude to all the
folks who 'rescued' this list.. thank you for your dedication and
time. My Old Computer hobby would be much the poorer were it not for
classiccmp. Thanks again! :)
Second: I have an 11/15 and two expansion boxes. The 11/15 itself
is front-panel, backplane, and power supply only... it never had
cards. One of the expansion units is *full* of old "G" series and a
few "M" series flip-chip style small cards. The second expansion box
is empty. The CPU front panel is cosmetically good, nothing is
damaged.. it could use some soap and elbow grease, though. I have
never had power on to them... electrically unknown therefore.
These items are outside of my area of interest, and I need to free
up some rack space. They are available without charge to the
individual who is fool^H^H^H^H adventureous enough to come and get
them.. all-up weight is about three hundred pounds and I'm not even
going to *consider* shipping them... not that the excersise wouldn't
be beneficial... ;}.
I am in Los Angeles, CA.
Will also trade for Kennedy 9300 or DEC TU16 magtape and formatter
cards.... if in reasonable distance of LA, I can provide transport
for this scenario.
Cheers
John
I thought the PC/XT-286 was basically an AT motherboard in an XT case. At
least that's what I remember from a previous discussion about the XT-286.
--
-Jason Willgruber
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#: 1730318
<http://members.tripod.com/general_1>
-----Original Message-----
From: David C. Jenner <djenner(a)halcyon.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Saturday, November 21, 1998 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: 16-bit 8088/8086?
>Sounds like you are describing almost exactly the IBM PC/XT286.
>
< My idea was either an 8088 or an 8086 with a 16-bit AT-style bus. (keep
< mind that it's a theoretical idea, and not an actual project -- yet)
The 8086 can be used onthe 16bit ISA bus, its a 16 bit cpu with a 16bit
bus and 20 address lines. That will do.
< -Would it be possible to have CPU cache with an 8088 or 8086?
Not needed as the fastest 8086(V30) is 12mhz (there may be faster)
and most moden Dram can keep up with that making cache unnecessary.
Cache is a was to make a fast ram keep up with a really fast cpu.
< - I'd use the 8 MHz 8086 or 8088.
Why not the 12mhz parts. Also the 8086 has a small performance advantage.
< If this would work at all, what performance would come out of it? Would
< perform like an XT, a 286, a TRS-80, or what?
It would be a turboXT. IT's been done, check on the design of the IBM
PS2/25 or 30. PS2/m30 was a 8086/8mhz, used 30 pin simms, it was
ISA8bit (the performance difference was small there).
Two cpus require far more complex software and operating system to have
any value and the improvement will not be 2x, more like 20%, though
multitasking may bo slightly better.
< My final question is another slight disagreement with my friend. He sa
< that it would be possible to piggyback (like IBM did with the early AT R
< chips) a second 8-MHz 8088 onto the existing 8088 in an XT to make it 1
< MHz. I told him that I didn't think it would work.
Your right. It would likely not work at all as both cpus are not
guarenteed to be in sync and if one gets out of sync they will crash
each other.
< What exactly would happen if this was done? Would it run at 8 MHz? Wou
< it run at 16 MHz, or something in-between? Would it speed up, slow down
< melt down, or just fry everything?
Crash.
Allison
Does anyone have a spare copy of the Maxtor XT-2190 manual, or is anyone
willing to make me a photocopy of it? A Maxtor XT-1140 manual would be
almost as good.
Thanks!
Eric
On Sat, 21 Nov 1998 20:40:06 EST SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com writes:
>harrumph; typical clueless non-computer type that thinks any old
>computer is
>worth plenty. there's a guy at an established flea market that tries
>to get
>the same price out of old machines. i bought a northgate 386/20 from a
>guy at
>work and even got the great northgate keyboard too for only $20!
<SNIP>
Hah! That's nothing! I snarfed a couple of 386's from work for *NOTHING*.
I asked the sysadmin if these were left over from the company sale.
"Yep! Nobody wants 'em. Take 'em!"
One was an Everex with a mondo-scarce RLL drive. . .
Jeff
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Could it be possible?
I was talking with a friend of mine, and we somehow got on the topic of what
would be a cool "custom computer" to have.
My idea was either an 8088 or an 8086 with a 16-bit AT-style bus. (keep in
mind that it's a theoretical idea, and not an actual project -- yet)
-It would probably involve using dual processors, (and probably dual math
processors) to make up for the 16-bits.
-It would probably have 1 MB RAM, with 30-pin expansion slots.
-Would it be possible to have CPU cache with an 8088 or 8086?
-I would probably try to use the basic layout from a PC/AT motherboard, and
hand wire everything (so I don't have to fool around with etching
chemicals).
- I'd use the 8 MHz 8086 or 8088.
If this would work at all, what performance would come out of it? Would it
perform like an XT, a 286, a TRS-80, or what?
My final question is another slight disagreement with my friend. He says
that it would be possible to piggyback (like IBM did with the early AT RAM
chips) a second 8-MHz 8088 onto the existing 8088 in an XT to make it 16
MHz. I told him that I didn't think it would work.
What exactly would happen if this was done? Would it run at 8 MHz? Would
it run at 16 MHz, or something in-between? Would it speed up, slow down,
melt down, or just fry everything?
ThAnX,
--
-Jason Willgruber
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#: 1730318
<http://members.tripod.com/general_1>
Does anyone have copies of software or manuals for equipment from
The Digital Group?
I'd be interested in most anything at all for it, but particularly in
PHIMON software, and in manuals and schematics.
Thanks!
Eric
< > >We all make mistakes (or at least I do :-)). It is worth checking thi
< > >Why DEC didn't use polarised connectors here is a mystery to me...
< >
< > This is indeed a bone-headed thing DEC did. I bet a lot of field engin
< > were cussing about that. Must have been two different design departmen
< > between RK's and RL's (Allison. . . comments?)
DEC Field circus created CSSE (Customer Services Support Engineering)
to keep an eye on the design, testing and manufacturing processes
at the product level to engineer out things like that. That was back
in the 70s, by 1991 they put themselves out of business as they had
"trained" engineering and manufacturing well.
< Yes. On every DEC drive I own (and I guess most others), track 0 is at
< the outside edge of the disk and the highest track is closest to the
< spindle. Allison/Tim will now post a list of exceptions :-)
I'm sure there are exceptions but not many. The oddballs I know of are
most fixed head disks and of course drums.
Speaking of drums, has anyone seen any out there?
Allison
If someone can help this fellow with front-panel schematics, as noted in
his message, please contact him directly.
Thanks!
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
From: mlaman(a)home.com
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11
Subject: Looking for schematics (or pointers to them) for PDP 11/70 and
PDP 11/40 Front Panels
Message-ID: <365681d0.44505453@news>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 8
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:05:44 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.0.163.129
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:05:44 PDT
Organization: @Home Network
Path:
blushng.jps.net!news.pbi.net!131.119.28.147!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!xfer.kren.ne.kr!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!news.rdc1.sdca.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
Hi,
I looking for schematics for PDP 11/70 and PDP 11/40 Front Panels.
Pointers to where I might find them are helpful too.
Thanks in advance,
Mike
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho,
Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com
Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com
"...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object,
event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."
I agree that he is somewhat clueless, but I don't agree that it's for that
reason. Many people feel bad that they got an expensive computer only
recently, and are forced to sell it for next to nothing. They want some kind
of return on it. I guess it's too bad. One simply has to explain to these
people that it simply doesn't work this way with computers. PCs and XTs are
usually under $20, though I've seen some selling over $50, for the same
reason. Then again, if the computer is very clean and has the original
manuals, it may be worth it to a collector.
>harrumph; typical clueless non-computer type that thinks any old computer
is
>worth plenty. there's a guy at an established flea market that tries to get
>> They had a no-name 386 clone, complete with color monitor, in working
>> condition for $175, and a 486, no monitor, unknown condition (most
likely
>> working though) for $250.
>>
>> Seemed very high to me, as I've picked up working 8080 PC's and XT's for
>> under $20. . .
>>
>> (They did also have an old Mac 128, but I didn't inquire about it, as
>> those are not exactly rare either)
>>
Isn't an XGA plug the same as a VGA plug? At least it is on the IBM XGA
monitor that I have.
--
-Jason Willgruber
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#: 1730318
<http://members.tripod.com/general_1>
-----Original Message-----
From: SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com <SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 5:33 PM
Subject: NEC multisync 3D
>there was some previous discussion about nec multisync monitors. believe it
or
>not, i actually found one tossed in the partking lot of an auto parts
store.
><!> unfortunately, it wont power on. made in 1990 and has XGA plug. anybody
>want it for free or need parts from it? it has a lot of controls behind a
flip
>down door. no burn-in on the tube amazingly.
>
>david
>
Hello, all:
Tonight, I posted the following:
- Altair ComputerNotes: 7/77 and 9/77, all four parts
Also, my ISP was able to setup authentication for a "private" file area.
This area will be one which houses documents intended for the CCL group
only, i.e., files for whatever reason, are not to be shared with the whole
Internet.
My idea is to keep docs whose copyright is still active but for which we
were not able to obtain explicit permission to use. I began posting the P-E
Altair article tonight (first of 12 parts). Technical reference guides from
IBM will also go in there. This information is too valuable to CCL members
to languish unpublished.
Anyway, those interested in the login, please e-mail me privately.
[ Rich Cini/WUGNET
[ ClubWin!/CW7
[ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
[ Collector of "classic" computers
[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/
[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/
<================ reply separator =================>
>
>Besides, if I can fly all the way from Birmingham UK to San Jose CA with a
>Tektronix 4052 (80 lb) in my baggage...
There is the difference I had to learn to travel light enough that I did not
check any bags. My record was strating in the Midwest on monday morning and
by Teusday evening I had been on both US coasts.
>
>> The most important thing I was trying to point out with the first item in
>> that post is NEVER assume the meter is correct. It will bite you.
>Agreed 100% (as Tony would say). In the electricity industry, safety
>procedures require you to test an EHT meter on a known good source before
>_and after_ the measurement. While that's impractical if you're flying
>around with no more test equipment than you can fit in a briefcase, a
>useful principle to follow.
I try to and had used that meter with no problems on another call the day
before.
Dan
>Yes. On every DEC drive I own (and I guess most others), track 0 is at
>the outside edge of the disk and the highest track is closest to the
>spindle. Allison/Tim will now post a list of exceptions :-)
Only exception I know of is CD-ROM, which doesn't exactly have tracks,
but at least block 0 is on the inside and the higher-number blocks
are on the outside.
>Halt the processor after the failed boot attempt, key in the first
>address of the RK611 (I can't remember it, but you have the RK07 user
>manual, don't you?)
777440 through 777456.
Tim. (shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com)
At 09:35 11/20/98 -0500, Chuck wrote:
>One of the myth's they always told us was they all had to be
>made by hand - there wasn't a machine that could thread the
>row/column and sense wires for mass production. Is there any
>rumor to this truth?
yeahright. In _IBM's Early Computers_ by Bashe et al., you will find
elaborate description of machinery developed to automate the production of
core planes, complete [IIRC] with pictures.
__________________________________________
Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
http://www.chac.org/index.html
Computer History Association of California
I was one of the Industrial Engineers responsible for the production of
core planes at the IBM Poughkeepsie plant.
The cores were put into a machine that shook them down into a panel that
lined them up for the row and column to be inserted by machine. The sense
wires were however inserted manually. It was an almost impossible job if
you looked at what had to be done but some people (almost all women) had an
uncanny knack of doing the job in what seemed to be impossible times and
accuracy. Using MTM (methods time measurement) it should have taken them
much longer than it actually did. They just had special skills.
Gene
At 11:46 AM 11/20/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>>made by hand - there wasn't a machine that could thread the
gene@ehrich
http://www.voicenet.com/~generic
Computer & Video Game Garage Sale
I posted the following some time back:
<snip>
(1) HardCard EZ, and two Conner drives. The HardCard has a big "127"
printed on the side (capacity?). No idea if it is good - same with the two
"normal" disks (types 2 and 17, for you IDE fans out there).
<snip>
The person that was to purchase this has done nothing about it, even after
several "prods", so I am offering this up again. Best offer over $5 plus
shipping.
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
I once saw an external Mac hard drive with the label 'Apple Crate.'
Marty
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: FIRST MACINTOSH HARD DRIVE?
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 11/20/98 4:38 PM
I vaguely remember something called a "MacBottom" (a hard drive above
which one placed a Mac computer)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles P. Hobbs __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____
transit(a)primenet.com /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ /
/ / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ /
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------ Message Header Follows ------
Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com
(PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm))
id AA-1998Nov20.163820.1767.79361; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:38:22 -0500
Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13])
by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP
id NAA23956; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:34:50 -0800
Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8])
by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP
id MAA61338 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Fri, 20 Nov 1998
12:50:24 -0800
Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon(a)smtp01.primenet.com
[206.165.6.131])
by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id MAA21
652
for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:50:23 -0800
Received: (from daemon@localhost)
by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA26004
for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:50:22 -0700 (MST)
Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201)
via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd025965; Fri Nov 20 13:50:18 1998
Message-Id: <Pine.BSI.3.96.981120124929.28136A-100000(a)usr01.primenet.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:50:17 -0800 (PST)
Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: "Charles P. Hobbs" <transit(a)primenet.com>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: FIRST MACINTOSH HARD DRIVE?
In-Reply-To: <199811201902.LAA04380(a)oa.ptloma.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
Hello, all:
I made another trip to Temple University today to get some more stuff. I
picked up the following:
- More Byte Magazines: 1983-1987
- Misc Unibus boards to repair my 11/34a, which for some reason will
no longer boot.
- RK05 disk packs
- Roytron Model 528 paper tape something
The Roytron thing is interesting. It's a paper tape punch (at least). I
have no info on this. It has what appears to be a v.35 connector on the
back. It says that it is a 120vac unit, but there is no power cord apparent.
Any info appreciated.
[ Rich Cini/WUGNET
[ ClubWin!/CW7
[ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
[ Collector of "classic" computers
[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/
[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/
<================ reply separator =================>
