- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>> A lot of people don't like key clicks. I do. When I worked at IBM I >> received a lot of dirty looks for typing on a 3279 terminal, in an open > > Not half as bad as the looks _I_ got for using a Flexowriter to punch a > tape in a public terminal room at Cambridge University about 10 years ago > (everybody else was using _silent_ video terminals, mostly BBC micros). Was I there? I don't recall the incident. >> plan office, without turning off the key clicker. Now that really was >> loud! > > I have a keyboard somewhere with a little solenoid in it that hits the > metal baseplate for a keyclick. Now that is loud! 3278 and 3279 were similar, except that it wasn't the metal base plate. I never dismantled one, but it sounded like one of those plastic resonators you get in some toy guns. Philip.

27 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

Front Panel Theory

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< know about is the Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1. It's pretty! And it's th < only one I've seen that had breakpoint capability. It was a "soft" front pannel where the switches interacted with a limited amount of rom like the altair 8800B. The Heath H8 and several others did nearly the same thing but used an octal keypad. Allison

27 years, 8 months

3
2
0 0

Into the modern age

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>One thing I'm a bit surprised by is the speed of the video being much >faster than I'd imagined it would be. Now to get some software to run >on it; I've found some stuff already, but can someone point me at some >share/freeware software to run under DecWindows (besides the DECUS >archives)? In particular, I remember using an ephemeris program in school >that I could swear was freely distributed. A lot of precompiled binaries are available by anonymous ftp >from ftp.cenaath.cena.dgac.fr - but many (most?) of these are available more conveniently from one of the DECUS collections. Just about anything that runs under X-windows on a Unix platform will run under DECWindows on VMS. Generally the difficulties in porting are comparable to porting between two different Unix platforms. (That's what that endless maze of "#ifdef"'s is in there for in the first place!) >Does the DECUS hobbyist license cover all versions of VMS/DECWindows? That's a good question, and I thought the license terms itself would say. But the copy I have from http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/license_terms.html is silent on the subject! Comments on comp.os.vms tend to indicate that 6.1 is covered, but that 6.2 isn't (because 6.2 is still "currently supported" commercially.) >I'm running 5.2 on this machine; would upgrading to 6.1 noticeably degrade >performance? Would additional features balance out any slowdowns? Besides >new features, my entire manual set is for 6.1... I forget how much RAM you have, but if you have more than 16 Mbytes you won't have any problems. If you have 16 Mbytes or less, you might be a bit tight on memory and would incur some paging/swapping, depending on what you're doing. Tim. (shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com)

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Into the modern age

by A_Finney＠wfi-inc.com

I finally got a monitor for my VS3100 m38 and was playing with DecWindows all night. Really cool. One thing I'm a bit surprised by is the speed of the video being much faster than I'd imagined it would be. Now to get some software to run on it; I've found some stuff already, but can someone point me at some share/freeware software to run under DecWindows (besides the DECUS archives)? In particular, I remember using an ephemeris program in school that I could swear was freely distributed. And a couple more questions for the experts: Does the DECUS hobbyist license cover all versions of VMS/DECWindows? I'm running 5.2 on this machine; would upgrading to 6.1 noticeably degrade performance? Would additional features balance out any slowdowns? Besides new features, my entire manual set is for 6.1... Aaron

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

FW: H-11 (LSI-11) for trade or sale (SF Bay Area)

by kyrrin＠my-dejanews.com

Heads up folks! This fellow's got an H11 for sale/trade in the Bay Area. You want, get in touch with him directly. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On 25 Nov 1998 22:27:15 -0800, in alt.sys.pdp11 you wrote: >>From: John Mock <kd6pag(a)qsl.net> >>Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 >>Subject: H-11 (LSI-11) for trade or sale (SF Bay Area) >>Date: 25 Nov 1998 22:27:15 -0800 >>Organization: Spam Haters >>Lines: 15 >>Message-ID: <87ogpvt1do.fsf(a)mongrel.kd6pag.ampr.org> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: op204.value.net >>X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.pbi.net!205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.best.com!vnetnews.value.net!not-for-mail >> >>Would like to trade for amateur radio gear (non-HF) or test equipment (non- >>boat-anchor due to space considerations). I think it includes manuals, >>drawings, and various paper-tape crud; 'was always too busy to do anything >>with it. I'm now in much too small of a place to keep it, and it's just >>occupying space in the van waiting for a new home. Too much stuff to ship >>but will happily deliver to most parts of the Bay Area (especially Sonoma >>Co., where someone [whose e-mail address was lost] had expressed interest >>before). Or perhaps the Sacramento region, as i'd like finally to make it >>to the snow country this year and the stuff's in the way of that. >> >>Please make an offer, including destination, as this time, i need to deal >>with this quickly. >> >> -- KD6PAG (or in UUCP notation, 'qsl.net!kd6pag' >> to evade the spammers) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Need DTC brand Qbus SCSI board info

by cfandt＠netsync.net

I have what is believed to be a SCSI board from DTC. It is a dual-wide Qbus module. "DTC" is silk-screened on the component side plus a FAB number, ASSY number, REV number and S/N. Nothing on the ejector tab. Those numbers likely do not mean anything to a search of DTC SCSI board info files but here they are anyway: FAB 007-00003, ASSY 007-00002, REV 02, S/N 3028C2. No LSI chips on board; only two ROM chips (82S123N's with paper labels "LSH 1" and LSD0" typed on them) plus others are typical 74xxx-series chips (LS, S and 7400-series) except bus I/F chips are the typical DS8641N's. It is suspected to be SCSI as there is a 50-pin pin connector on the ejector end and a tag on the antistatic bag has "Probably SCSI" written on it by what is apparently a DEC dealer/reseller in Pittsburgh. Absolutely no part or type number on the component side and nothing on the solder side. Searching the DTC website was useless as the only thing they talked about in the Support area was all their PC-type SCSI boards. Nothing on any web search turned up anything either (figures, it's such a relatively old thing) unless there's actually a website the search engines could not see . . . It could be an earlier SASI type board too as the date codes on the chips run from mid-1982 to a few from the first weeks of 1983. IIRC, that's around the tail end of the SASI protocol days and beginning of the SCSI protocol. Anyway, I need to get info on this to see if it could be used on either my MicroVAX II or MicroPDP-11/73. Anybody have any ideas on this? Any old DTC or independant DEC reseller catalogs from the early 80's have any info on this? Thanks in advance. Happy Thanksgiving to the Stateside gang!! In addition to the good things we are given in life such as family, friends and the life we have, give thanks for our ability to keep and study the old computer and electronic technology: hobbies we are fortunate to enjoy. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Tektronix 4051

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi all, More progress on the 4051. I finally tracked down the original manuals and was able to get them. Man, are they in sorry shape. Not just mold and mildew but even termites in them! I spent all day cleaning them page by page. I was able to save most of them. The worst damage is confined to the outer pages and the edges so most of the real info is intact. Here's what I ended up with, besides the two books that I mentioned early. (Book 1) 4051 Service ROM Pack 067-0962-00, 4051R05 Binary Program Loader, 4051E01 ROM Expander Instruction Manual, 4051 Option 1 Data Communications Interface 021-0188-00, Data Communications Inteface Unit Instruction Manual 021-0065-00, 4051 Option 10 RS-232 Printer Interface 021-0189-00. (Book 2) Graphic System Reference Manual 070-2056-00 (Book 3) 4051 Graphic System Service Manual Vol I 070-2065-00, 4051 Graphic System Service Manual Vol II 070-2086-00, RS 232 Printer Interface for 4051 (data sheet) 021-0189-00, 4051R01/4051R05/4051R06 data sheet 062-3106-00. (Book 4) 4907 File Manager Operator's Manual 070-2360-00. (Book 5) Plot 50 ????? (title page missing), Plot 50 Introduction to Graphic Programming in BASIC 070-2059-00. (Book 6) 4051 Editor 4051R06 070-2170-00. BTW Paxton and Phillip were right, the model of the disk drives is 4907 not 4097. Happy weekend everybody and happy Thanksgiving to the ones of us here in the US. Joe

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Front Panel Theory

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< If you're suggesting that the breakpoint capability of the DPS-1 < front-panel was merely something that tickled a ROM monitor and told it < drop a software breakpoint, then BZZZT! That would be cheating. It was a mix of rom and some hardware but, yes! < >From the hardware description, it looks like it was a real ICE-like < hardware breakpoint, and you could break on address, data, or status < conditions. If I could recognize the part numbers in the schematic, I < might even be able to pretend I know how it works. :-) That was the part hardware part. Compared to ICE is was far more crude. Allison

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Vaxstation 3100 basics

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< The box is a model VS42A and has a 3.5" floppy and 2 X 100Mb internal SC < hard drives. It has what looks like 8Mb of RAM to me, whatever is on th < main board plus a 4Mb extension. Ok you have a 3100, with 12mb ram (VMS runs in 4 or more). This is plenty. The two RZ23l drives are plenty of space for VMS. < < On powering up it says KA 42-A v1.3, does a hex countdown and finishes w < a ">>>" prompt. < < Command "b" causes it to display ESA0 and stop. < Command "?" gives an error message. < Command "c" causes a drive to start. It then displays an error message " < ERR PC=00000000" and then lists a table I can't decipher that seems t < list drives and includes "VMS/VMB" and "Ultrix" along the top. It then h < prompt " [ESA0:] >>> ". < At that point command "b" results in a series of errors: < 83 BOOT SYS < ?41 DEVASSIGN,B < 84 FAIL ESA0 is the eithernet. So it was trying to NETBOOT! The boot device is likely DKA300. DKA is disk, scsi bus A X00 is the device number. < How can I find out if it has an operating system? or have I already prov < it hasn't? Try booting! >>> B DKA000 through 700 see if they all fail. < It looks like it is at least NEARLY 10 years old. 9 max. depending on model maybe less than 5. Though KA42A is likely a 3100 M30 nice little box actually. Allison

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Front Panel Theory

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Do you mean if you execute a HALT instruction? If you do that, the Z80 < behaves as if it's continuously executing HALT instructions, performing < repeated bus cycles, including the RFSH signal part. No. Halt is a instruction. WAIT/ is a device pin. WAIT/ will hold cpu operation at the point where a read write or IO( read or write) operation takes place an freezes it until released. Most hardware front pannels used wait/ (or ready/) to stop the cpu. the WAIT/ state on z80 does not generate refresh as it's a extended T2 state and refresh is not output until the cpu proceds to the T3 state. so for those front pannels operatios were done this way: read an address; waiting that that address with data and address leds as the would be for bus contents. CPU is waiting in M1 state for z80 case (instruction read). Write data: Same as read case but the contents of the data switches are written to the current ram address. the write pulse is from the front pannel (cpu still waiting). RUN: remove wait/, operation procedes from where you are. STOP: Assert wait/ LOAD ADDRESS: JAM jump to address into cpu. the jump instuction is a buffer with it's imputs hard wired to C3h (JP in z80) and the address bytes that follow gated off the 16 front pannel switchs. Wait is re asserted to stop after the jump. LEDs will now contain the new address and data from the address in the switches. hardware front pannels are generally a lot of chips but no smarts. Allison

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Call for final Elf99 design input

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Not everyone has a Quest Elf. I, too, want to go beyond it, but for < aesthetic reasons, I want to stay close to the original. My vision is < a compromise between what we had in 1977 and what we would have wanted < if we could have gotten it for the same price. When I built my Elf, I < followed a friend's advice and installed a wire-wrap socket for the CPU < He rolled his own I/O ports, with relay drivers and built a robot. I < never did add anthing to mine, and quickly ran out of things to do with Doing all that with a bas elf wasn't hard but very awkward. It didn't latch the high address so 256bytes were it. IO was what it was(switches and the Q led) There was no easy expansion without corrupting the base design so that some of the simplest programs did not run. < I always wanted an Elf II, but couldn't afford the board. I wish now I Same here but at teh time I was into S100 and just wanted to play with the 1802 a tiny bit and that was cheap. < had saved for it. I got a 32k PET instead. Ah, well; choices. In any < case, I liked the slots idea on the Elf II, but I don't recall too much < materializing for it. The Elf II at the Computer Museum of America in < San Diego has a plexiglass box over the boards and all the slots full. < One was memory. I don't know about the other two. For that matter, the Memory, Parrlel ports, serial ports, 1861 video board(may have been a base level board option). The most highly developed elf was the one from Netronics (ELF-II) The VIP had a ram card, rom card, IO card and a sound effects card. Never saw any of them. They were real easy to make. My idea of a 1802 system was more like the 1802 Eval board rom RCA that was unlike the elf series. My 1802 wish list for the record. Up to 32kram, 32k rom using standard pinouts so the 32k rom can be EEpro, Eprom or flash. The 28 pin site can also accept 24 pin devices (6116, 2716, 2732...). Minimum of one parallel out and one parallel in. Elf style front pannel for programs with 6 hex leds (address and data). data input would be toggle switches as they while not cheap are easy to get and mount. serial port, bit bashing serial IO gets tiresome and is limited in speed. VIP style cassette IO (tape storage) proto area with holes enough to build a few IO things. Bus brought to one connector (VIP compatable) The reason for that is there are Tbasic, Pilot and other languages and tools that all want more than 256 byts and Q-led. If some one were to do it a "advanced 1861" in FPGA. the 1861 was a primitive device that did video DMA, With a little design effort a similar device and be put in FPGA that would provide 256 horizontal by 128 vertical using 4k of ram as a bit map. This enough to better graphics and even display 32x16 characters using a 8x8 cell. Going much further with 1802 is self limiting as it was slow and actually a crude CPU. It was also like the PDP-8 in that it was blessedly simple. Allison

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

more interesting finds!

by Innfogra＠aol.com

Joe, I wish I were there. You should hang the DG core plane on the wall. They are great art. I think all core you get should be kept. Usually there is so much good (old) gold in them they go to scrap first. While later core planes, including the DG, didn't use much some of the early examples are spectacular. And, who knows, someone might want to get an old Nova 800 running again. The small pizza boxes are Sun compatible X-Window Terminals. Plug in a multisync SVGA monitor (preferably one good to 1280X1024), PS/2 mouse and keyboard and you should be able to get it to come up and run digs somewhere in the windowing system. I say Sun compatible because of the keyboard port. It would be interesting to know if Sun chips or the 68020/68881 chips were in it. Usually generic X-Window terminals used Motorola chips. If it had Sun chips it would be a Sparkstation of some kind. Probably not a Spark though, no SCSI port. HDS (Human Designed Systems) made terminals to be hooked up to mainframes. Almost all terminal makers brought out a X-Window terminals for Ethernet networks. HDS was well respected, I'm not surprised that some of their machines got out there. Most X-Window machines had this many ports, Sun keyboard excluded. They were platform independent, relying on TCP/IP and X- Windows which usually booted from ROM. This one looks like it would hook up to any kind of Ethernet you had, keyboard, mouse, parallel printer, modem, serial tablet, are there any leftover ports, oh yes the Sun Keyboard (or the PC keyboard if you hooked up a Sun one). My guess is that this is a later Motorola based X-Window terminal that is nearly plug and play on a Sun Solaris Ethernet system. NOTE: X-Window terminals were often crammed full of memory (2 to 16meg generally), usually SIMS. This often gets stripped first, even before the surplus shop gets it. Look for signs the case has been opened. If you can, check the machine yourself. Spark clones have 32 to 64 Megs of Ram, have good trading value. the earliest of these are about 10 yrs old so they can be on topic. Let us know what else you find! Paxton PS I see more current info out there after reading the mail. If it is an intel/TI system those are fairly rare and, I think, worth collecting.

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Front Panel Theory

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 25, 23:44, Allison J Parent wrote: > Front pannels don't work with Z80s if... DRAM depends on the z80 for > refresh. Reason is the stopped state is a very long wait state. Do you mean if you execute a HALT instruction? If you do that, the Z80 behaves as if it's continuously executing HALT instructions, performing repeated bus cycles, including the RFSH signal part. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Call for final Elf99 design input

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 26, 0:31, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I don't think you answered the same question I did. The "essential" thing > and the thing that there was only one vote in favor of was having the 2101 > sockets IN ADDITION TO the 62256 socket. So far, only one person, Hans, > has asserted that the 2101 sockets are a good thing. Add my name to Hans'. I don't mind if I can only have one or the other at any given time, but I happen to have a few 2101s and it would be nice to use them. > Not everyone has a Quest Elf. I, too, want to go beyond it, but for > aesthetic reasons, I want to stay close to the original. That sounds just like my ideal :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Vaxstation 3100 basics

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

I have managed to find and cobble together enough bits of hardware to have an operational vaxstation .... I think. I've never played with one before or even seen one. What now? The box is a model VS42A and has a 3.5" floppy and 2 X 100Mb internal SCSI hard drives. It has what looks like 8Mb of RAM to me, whatever is on the main board plus a 4Mb extension. On powering up it says KA 42-A v1.3, does a hex countdown and finishes with a ">>>" prompt. Command "b" causes it to display ESA0 and stop. Command "?" gives an error message. Command "c" causes a drive to start. It then displays an error message "ISP ERR PC=00000000" and then lists a table I can't decipher that seems to list drives and includes "VMS/VMB" and "Ultrix" along the top. It then has a prompt " [ESA0:] >>> ". At that point command "b" results in a series of errors: 83 BOOT SYS ?41 DEVASSIGN,B 84 FAIL How can I find out if it has an operating system? or have I already proved it hasn't? None of the stuff I have found on the web so far goes this basic. It looks like it is at least NEARLY 10 years old. Thanks Hans Olminkhof

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Call for final Elf99 design input

by allisonp＠world.std.com

The basic elf was an 8bit address only design. The high order bites were not latched. It's memory was 256bytes (2101s) and an optional 32byte fuse prom. When the prom was enabled it overlayed the first 32 bytes. The upper address bytes were meaningless as no logic saw them. Very limiting design. < > > o Circuit to ghost EPROM at $0000 until first address access at $80 < > < > I still would go for a better decoding - just the high bit is to short < > Maybe there are some spare gates to use ? < < Wait a minute. We have been having an extensive offline conversation < and you said that 32K of RAM and 32K of ROM is enough. It can be more o < of either, at a cost of gates and complexity. The VIP had 512bytes at 8000 and up to 4k at 0-0fffh/ < > Esential to be as close as possible to the original design. < < One vote for, several against or abstaining. if you stay close to the quest design you cannot have much (and none of the options) all of the options are desirable as most people added them somehow or another. < I'm not inclined to do dual 1852's. We you and I have discussed, the 18 < uses three ports, the switch/display is another port, leaving three lef < over. While ports are scarce, they are no so scarce as to overshadow th < benefits of a bit-programmable I/O port. Use port one to select banks of ports (RCA app note). Then ports are cheap and it only takes another latch. ARE 1852 available and what do they offer over a simple cheap port. < > Data transfer via Q is way more fun (Hi Alison :). < > And since we don't need high speed transfer (2400 is ridicoulous i < > we can do 110 :) a complete software solution is a great thing to do. < < I have no problems in principle with a software UART, but I do have < something to say about the speed. 2400 baud is *not* a ridiculous < speed, especially if you want to talk to an external device that has < a fixed clock, say, a serial-to-LCD board. The other issue with a < software UART is timing. If you use a hardware UART, it needs a < crystal of a particular frequency, but the CPU does not. You can then < "clock chip" the 1802 up (to use a Mac term) and not recode your serial < routines. Use the q led and EF1 for casette port. Uart for TTY/term. < I still have yet to hear why the 1855 Multiply/Divide Unit is worth < the real estate. Sure, it's a neat chip, but unless it has a purpose, < I can't see including it. Never mind finding it. < but if I maximize the appeal of the standard I/O ports, I'm likely to se < a few dozen. If I can't sell 60, I can't afford to invest in 100 PCBs. And if its only the quest design I have one already. It's appeal wears off real fast and it's was not designed with expansion in mind. Allison

27 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

Front Panel Theory

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Not trying to be a snob here, but true "Front Panel Theory" can only be < practiced on a computer where the 'innards' are exposed. Most < microprocessors are too integrated to support a "real" front panel. This < one of the reason they died out fairly quickly in the micro world but li < for quite a while in the mini-world. Wrong, wrong wrong. They died because of a multitude of things one being ROM monitor is cheaper to implement than 16-22 switches and more flexible. That and after you've baned the loader in 5 times and basic still isn't up and your finder hurt... Plus it made the machine intimidating and complex looking compared to say a KIM-1 The 8080 altair had one and it was quite useful but there were more switches and TTL on the board than the CPU, RAM and IO combined! Allison

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Front Panel Theory

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< This might be a bit of an odd question, but can anyone point me in the < right direction to find info on theory of operation of a front panel? < have a z80 based computer which I built a few years ago (wire-wrapped) < which uses an eprom for program storage. I would like to add a front < panel (switches and lights) to it to get better aquainted with the old w Find a copy of bursky's book The S100 Bus Handbook. Front pannels don't work with Z80s if... DRAM depends on the z80 for refresh. Reason is the stopped state is a very long wait state. theory wise it's farly simple but there are a lot of repeated circuits as you have to buffer everything and do some work centered around the CPU timing. Allison

27 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

Santa Ana ACP Store

by DaveyGF＠aol.com

Does the ower have an email address? I would love to ask him about his Altair computers.. David

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Audio Cassette formats; what about ADAM?

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

It's replies like the one below that make my education seem woeful to me. A -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 3:54 PM Subject: Re: Audio Cassette formats; what about ADAM? >< What about the ADAM computer from Coleco??? It uses a digital tape that >< holds (around) 256K or so... (Never set mine up yet). >< >< Is there any way you could run that thang thru an audio player and have >< PC routine re-digitalize it, or are you stuck with read a thing and >< serial-send it over to another PC? > >No! It's digital saturation like a floppy and the encoding is to the >flux reversal timing. > >Adam is digital stauration recording like a floppy only slower, audio >tape is audio frequency/phase change and the medium is the linear portion >of the BH curve. They are very different from each other. > >Allison > >

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Audio Cassette formats, was: RE: Recent Finds & Thoughts

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > Yeah 44100Hz/16/stereo eats up space perdy quick, which is why < > I'd like to try or hear from someone whose tried the various FYI, protable casette recorders 3db point is 11-14KHz for the better ones and they typical ones used 9.5-12.5KHz is more realistic. Sampling above 20Khz is wasting bandwidth and recording time. Even the fastest audio formats (sudding and TARBEL187bytes/sec) had bandwidths below 5KHz. Allison

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Front Panel Theory

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

Not trying to be a snob here, but true "Front Panel Theory" can only be practiced on a computer where the 'innards' are exposed. Most microprocessors are too integrated to support a "real" front panel. This is one of the reason they died out fairly quickly in the micro world but lived for quite a while in the mini-world. Basically an ideal front panel contains enough switches to set any memory address, load any register, and start, stop, and single step the CPU, and enough lights to monitor both system state and the current address. Many older panels let you look at several things simultaneously but later ones like the PDP-11 and PDP-8 panels used selector switches to multiplex the lights and reduce cost. --Chuck At 06:03 PM 11/25/98 -0600, you wrote: >This might be a bit of an odd question, but can anyone point me in the >right direction to find info on theory of operation of a front panel? I >have a z80 based computer which I built a few years ago (wire-wrapped) >which uses an eprom for program storage. I would like to add a front >panel (switches and lights) to it to get better aquainted with the old way >of doing things. Unfortunatly, my knowledge of microprocessor-based >systems post-dates the era of front panels. The eventual goal is to build >a hands-on display to show how systems were bootstrapped. (without >letting people abuse a 'priceless' altair or imsai) > >Thanks, >srw > >

27 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

Audio Cassette formats, was: RE: Recent Finds & Thoughts

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

Mark[SMTP:mark_k@iname.com] sez: >I have many old computer cassettes, and have been thinking of >recording them onto a computer in order to preserve their >contents. The signal from computer tapes oscillates between >two levels, right? This being the case, it should be possible >to record them using 1-bit sampling. Perhaps record with 8- or >16-bitsampling and then convert down to single bit. > >Are there any programs to do this conversion? I imagine the >equivalent of a Schmitt trigger (in software) would work. What >about playing back a 1-bit audio signal? Are there any standard >audio file formats that can be used to store 1-bit data? Well, there were/are many formats to put data onto tape, the only one I'm famalier with is as you said a FSK or frequency shift keying, using one tone for a mark or '1' and another for a space or '0'. See http://www.threedee.com/jcm/audio/index.html for some work in this area. >Actually recording tapes to audio CDs is quite wasteful since >you can only get 70 minutes or so on a CD (an issue if you have Yeah 44100Hz/16/stereo eats up space perdy quick, which is why I'd like to try or hear from someone whose tried the various levels of RealAudio or open std. MP3 compression - using those one can get hundreds of hours of 'not bad' audio on a single CD. (e.g., one 30 minute radio program = about 5Mb of MP3). Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com P.S. Nerds 2.0.1 on PBS tonight

27 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

Dismantling an AT keyboard entirely

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>> The only time that I would think the clicking would give someone a headache >> would be if they were locked in a sound-proof round all-white room with no >> windows, and dome ceiling, but then again, that's just my opinion. > > Try teaching an operation or programming class in a room full of > thosed damned clicky keyboards. You'll fire up the chainsaw before > an hour is out to drown out the racket. A lot of people don't like key clicks. I do. When I worked at IBM I received a lot of dirty looks for typing on a 3279 terminal, in an open plan office, without turning off the key clicker. Now that really was loud! Philip.

27 years, 8 months

3
2
0 0

Front Panel Theory

by scott＠saskatoon.com

This might be a bit of an odd question, but can anyone point me in the right direction to find info on theory of operation of a front panel? I have a z80 based computer which I built a few years ago (wire-wrapped) which uses an eprom for program storage. I would like to add a front panel (switches and lights) to it to get better aquainted with the old way of doing things. Unfortunatly, my knowledge of microprocessor-based systems post-dates the era of front panels. The eventual goal is to build a hands-on display to show how systems were bootstrapped. (without letting people abuse a 'priceless' altair or imsai) Thanks, srw

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Old 386 and 486 pc's

by manney＠lrbcg.com

>One was an Everex with a mondo-scarce RLL drive. . . Which one? RLL's aren't _all_ that scarce. manney

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Call for final Elf99 design input

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< This means no CHIP-8. :-( No it means CHIP-8 graphics are out. Chip-8 can be hacked for other devices like terminal io. Also the resolution of the VIP was slow low that a matrix of leds might be doable as a display. as a possibel subtitute. Allison

27 years, 8 months

3
3
0 0

more interesting finds!

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I went to a scrap place yesterday and found a couple of interesting items. One is a 16K core memory board for a Data General Nova. Huge sucker! It's marked "DATA GENERAL CORP DGC NOVA 800 16K MEMORY STACK copyright 1973". Anyone need this or should I just hang it on the wall to admire? I also found several odd looking boxs that are labled as HDS ViewStation. they're made by a company called Human Designed Systems. They're about 2" tall and 12" square. They have connectors for all the following; thick and thin ethernet, twisted pair, sun keyboard, standard PC keyboard, RJ serial port, DB-25 serial, DB-25 parallel, PS-2 mouse and standard VGA video. Does anyone know what these are or why they have so many ports? Joe

27 years, 8 months

7
9
0 0

Call for final Elf99 design input

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, Ethan Dicks <erd(a)infinet.com> wrote: ] I am cranking along with the capture of the Elf99 design (on OrCAD for DOS, ] a 10-year-old program, no less). I wanted to throw out what I have ] descided on and ask for suggestions on what is not set in stone. ] ... I didn't speak up before, but I'm sitting on the "interested" side of the fence. As for my personal preferences, modern chips are fine, if they are cheap, easy to use, readily available, and relatively standard (so they are likely to remain available for a while yet). I never had an Elf of any sort, so I don't have any attachment to any particular aspect of that. So to me, being 1802-based and being cheap/easy would be the big attractions. If I could populate the entire board for under $20, that would probably be enough to pull me off the fence entirely. Cheers, Bill.

27 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

Dismantling an AT keyboard entirely

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< The keyboard should now work. Mine does -- I typed this on it. You forgot one step in the disassembly... NOTE where each key is removed from. Otherwise I typed this on it. becomes Y riowd kida no wq, ;) Allison

27 years, 8 months

3
2
0 0

MacDraw (?) and other software wanted

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

www.eden.com/~arena/jagshouse/ previously, he had over 50 meg worth of old mac apps online, but had to remove them due to obvious copyright reasons. thankfully i was able to pull copies down in time. he still has info on internetting an old mac. In a message dated 11/25/98 6:19:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, jruschme(a)exit109.com writes: << > Does anyone have any drawing software that"ll run on it that they'd be > willing to send me? Me, no, but I think someone else mentioned MacCrypt. Also, lok for a site run by a guy named Jag. >>

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Cray Y-MP & Convex for auction in UK

by mark_k＠iname.com

Hi, In case anyone is interested (and has loads of space and a large truck), apparently Cray Y-MP-EL and Convex mainframe computers are part of an auction to be held on 8th December near Honiton, Devon, England. The URL of the auctioneers is http://www.saqnet.co.uk/users/mstcommercial If anyone decides to go to this, please let me know (I may want to scrounge a lift off you...). -- Mark

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Recent Finds & Thoughts

by mark_k＠iname.com

On Sun, 22 Nov 1998 Gareth Knight wrote: >Marvin wrote: >>Having *finally* gotten a CD-R unit hooked up, it occurred to me that >>perhaps recording all the cassette data tapes to CD would be a worthwhile >>thing to do. Has anyone else tried this? I would think it would be >trivial >>to hook up a stereo to computers, and thus load both data and programs. > >You mean record the audio on to a different track? Yes, it certainly is >possible. There was a commercial device out for the Sinclair Spectrum in >1990 that included 30 games on one CD. I think it was made by Codemasters. >I've only seen it once at a car boot sale but it appeared to be a basic to >be a basic CD player with some leads to plug into the tape port. That's what I understand it consists of. A very high speed turbo-loading routine is used; tapes would have trouble coping with this. The first track is probably a normal-speed file containing the loader code, and the other tracks would be the games recorded at high speed. (Can anyone confirm this?) I have many old computer cassettes, and have been thinking of recording them onto a computer in order to preserve their contents. The signal from computer tapes oscillates between two levels, right? This being the case, it should be possible to record them using 1-bit sampling. Perhaps record with 8- or 16-bit sampling and then convert down to single bit. Are there any programs to do this conversion? I imagine the equivalent of a Schmitt trigger (in software) would work. What about playing back a 1-bit audio signal? Are there any standard audio file formats that can be used to store 1-bit data? The final 1-bit audio files should be highly compressible, so they could be archived with zip etc. to reduce size. If sampling at 44.1kHz, the uncompressed 1-bit sample would use about 5.4K per second. For a five-minute tape, that comes to under 1.7MB. Sampling is of course the best way to preserve software, rather than converting the files themselves; with a sample an exact duplicate of the original cassette can be created, and things like copy-protection and turbo loaders are no problem. Actually recording tapes to audio CDs is quite wasteful since you can only get 70 minutes or so on a CD (an issue if you have hundreds of cassettes). My approach would be to archive tapes as described above; of course burning an audio CD is useful for transferring the data back to the source computer. -- Mark

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

more interesting finds!

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I went to a scrap place yesterday and found a couple of interesting items. >One is a 16K core memory board for a Data General Nova. Huge sucker! It's >marked "DATA GENERAL CORP DGC NOVA 800 16K MEMORY STACK copyright 1973". >Anyone need this or should I just hang it on the wall to admire? Someone with a Nova could want it :-) > I also found several odd looking boxs that are labled as HDS ViewStation. >they're made by a company called Human Designed Systems. They're about 2" >tall and 12" square. They have connectors for all the following; thick and >thin ethernet, twisted pair, sun keyboard, standard PC keyboard, RJ serial >port, DB-25 serial, DB-25 parallel, PS-2 mouse and standard VGA video. >Does anyone know what these are Very versatile terminals. Plug in a monitor, plug in a keyboard, you have a terminal over the DB25 or RJ serial connector. Plug in the Ethernet, you have TCP/IP and LAT connectivity. I believe that certain models were also X-terminals (though I never used any as such.) > or why they have so many ports? So you can hook up whichever keyboard, printer, and computer however you find most convenient. :-) Tim.

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

No subject

by bgreen＠northwoodgeo.com

UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Barry Green Web Manager Northwood Geoscience www.northwoodgeo.com

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Apple Mac External Hard Drives For Sale

by fauradon＠pclink.com

Hi, Funny you had to post this today, I just bought two MAC SE without hard drives. May be we could work out a deal here. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon/ -----Original Message----- From: Phil Clayton <handyman(a)sprintmail.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 12:58 PM Subject: Apple Mac External Hard Drives For Sale >I have two External Apple Mac SCSI Hard Drives that I no longer need.. >They were used on my Mac SE computer.. >They plug into the back of your Mac, and I suppose could be used in an >Apple II series computer if it had a SCSI interface card installed.. >Those interested please make me an offer on one or both of them.. > >1. MacDirect 120MB SCSI Hard Drive with SCSI Cable & Power Cord.. >2. CMS 60MB SCSI Hard Drive with SCSI Cable & Power Cord.. > >Both of these units work fine no errors.. >Both are formatted for Mac SE and boot to system ver 7.1 >Both have several Misl programs on them.. >Both are very clean units, well taken care of.. >Designed to sit under the Mac, and cosmetically match.. > >Those interested contact me privately at handyman(a)sprintmail.com >Thanks... >Phil... >

27 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

MacDraw (?) and other software wanted

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Hi! I have a Mac Portable with 4 MB RAM, 2400 modem, 40MB HDD, running System 7.01 Pro. Does anyone have any drawing software that"ll run on it that they'd be willing to send me? I'm also looking for a small web browser and TCP/IP dialer program for it. Are there any MIDI players for the Mac (like a Windows MediaPlayer)? What format are the sounds on a Mac, where do I get them (the Portable has no input, so I can't record anything), and how do I play them ? If there is an audio player for MacOS, where do I find one? I also have a few questions: - Just how rare are the models with the factory-installed backlight? I've heard that they're fairly rare, and the non-backlit versions are much more common. -Is there any possible way to fit a bigger HD into it? I've been told that the HD is a special type, and other ones won't work. ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> PS>> Please ignore the fact that some of these questions may be pretty basic, but the Portable is the first Apple I've had since a //c.

27 years, 8 months

3
2
0 0

Call for final Elf99 design input

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Options under consideration: < < o Sockets for two 1822/2101 256x4 SRAMs, the same style used by < the original Elf. < one 2116 outweighs that. <o A 1851 programmable input/output port -or- a pair of 4508 latches Use the one that is available. < wired as one input and one output port (as in the COSMAC VIP) Handy and useful, do the ports. < o A 1854 UART Desirable. < o A protoyping area of .1" spaced plated-through holes, nominally < a few inches long by one or two inches wide. < < o Either a dual 4042 address latch or a single 4508 latch. One or < the other is needed to implement more than 256 bytes of memory. < This would be optional in a machine built with dual-256x4 SRAMs. Consider 74hct373. < o A pre-programmed 27256 with a "library" of simple programs < (Accessible by enabling the ROM switch, setting the program < number in the switch register, then setting the control switches < to "run"). Good idea! I have sources for minimonitor and UT4(RCA) plus a buch of others in hex from articles. < Did I miss anything? Any other suggestions? I will not be including sp < for an 1861 because I have been entirely unable to locate a source. Long gone. < Do we still have any interested parties? I have saved the addresses of < all who have initially expressed interest, so I only really need to know < these features are attracting people or putting them off. Yes! Allison

27 years, 8 months

3
3
0 0

My adolescent fantasies FINALLY fulfilled!

by Arlen.Michaels.amichael＠nt.com

> Aaron Christopher Finney <A_Finney(a)wfi-inc.com> wrote: > > I finally got an ATR8000. Man, I dreamed of having one of these every > night, reading the SWP brochure until it literally fell apart. Every time > I went to buy one on ePay, someone would come along and push the price > *way* beyond what I wanted to pay. Anyway, I just got one for $60 (I know > many of you think that's still ridiculously high, but I've been waiting > ~12 years for one of these things) that came with a giant stack of disks, > manuals, and cables. The usual CP/M stuff; Wordstar, Supercalc, etc. > Unfortunately, I'm at work and have to wait a few hours before I can try > it out. > > Well, at least now I will stop harrassing everyone who posts to the list > about picking one of these things up for $5... > How about the ATR Co-Power II? The one I found recently has an 8088 and 256K RAM, so I presume it was intended let an Atari run MSDOS. It looks like it dates from around 1984. Can you comment a bit more on the history of these ATR second processor cards and do you happen to know how many different types they eventually made? Arlen Michaels amichael(a)nortel.ca

27 years, 8 months

3
2
0 0

Fw: Some DEC stuff still available

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

Saw this in comp.sys.dec, so I thought I'd post it in the list for interested parties. I'd LOVE to get the 11/750, but I'm a little too far away...... -----Original Message----- From: kshuff <kshuff(a)fast.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Date: Wednesday, 25 November 1998 13:45 Subject: Some DEC stuff still available > I still have the following stuff I'd like to see go to good homes, prices are >negotiable and do not include shipping... > > VT1200 Mono X-term base, 3 meg ram, no keyboard or mouse $25 OBO. Can throw > in a DEC VR260 mono monitor for an extra $25 > > VAXstation 3100 M38, 24 meg ram, RZ23, RZ24, SCSI floppy, keyboard, mouse, > VR262 mono monitor, external TK50, Ultrix 4.4 installed $200 OBO > > VAX 11/750, 8 meg ram, DMF32, TU-80, TU58, (2) boxes of spare Unibus cards, > all original console TU58 tapes and diagnostics, original Ultrix 3.1 on > 9-track magtape, older VMS on magtape, manuals, printset BEST OFFER, > MUST PICKUP in Eastern Pa. It does work :) > > Spare TU-80 9-track tape drive, bare unit, no cabinet BEST OFFER > > HP7475A Plotter, brand new color pens $45 OBO > >All items located in Allentown, Pennsylvania, in good and working condition. > > > > > Keith S. Huff > > kshuff(a)fast.net > --------------- > > "One World, One Web, One Program"- Microsoft Promotional Ad > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer"- Adolf Hitler Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Dismantling an AT keyboard entirely

by roblwill＠usaor.net

>Is that the same as the PC and the PS/2 keyboards? Those things are >terribly noisy, they give me a headache. I like the click, but it has a >high-pitched overtone. It does? I have an old PS/2 keyboard connected to my P200, and never noticed anything high-pitched. The space bar is a bit louder then the rest of the keys, and there's an occasional *sproing* from a stuck spring in a few of the keys. Other than that, it's a great keyboard. The PC keyboard is another good one. They both give the sure feel that a letter is going to come onto the screen (usually), unlike the new membrane (squishy-key) keyboards that almost have the feel of the Coco 2 keyboard. The only time that I would think the clicking would give someone a headache would be if they were locked in a sound-proof round all-white room with no windows, and dome ceiling, but then again, that's just my opinion. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 8 months

3
2
0 0

Call for final Elf99 design input

by dogas＠leading.net

Ethan. I hopfully have already been *counted*, but if I'm not.... Thanks - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

what is a 'stringy floppy'?

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

I know that this is an old question, but I've been on vacation. And I'm just catching up on the last two weeks. SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com said: >i was talking to my manager who is just about ready to give me a complete and >working trs80 model 1 with ALL accessories. he also said he used something >called a stringy floppy with it which used a loop of string/wire to save data >with not quite the speed of floppies but certainly faster than cassette. has >anyone seen these or can explain how they work? he said there were carts that >were put into the drive so it seems to be a removeable media device? can >anyone explain further? I have one and some information in my Lobby display case. http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum/display.htm ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA =========================================

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Call for final Elf99 design input

by amc358＠interserv.com

> On Tuesday, November 24, 1998 2:48 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > The Elf99 will consist of the following: Count me in for one! > Did I miss anything? Don't forget the 'Q' LED. ;-) > Any other suggestions? I will not be including space > for an 1861 because I have been entirely unable to locate a source. This means no CHIP-8. :-( Al McCann amc358(a)interserv.com

27 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

11/34A/RK07 not booting. Help wanted

by mbg＠world.std.com

>>Yes. On every DEC drive I own (and I guess most others), track 0 is at >>the outside edge of the disk and the highest track is closest to the >>spindle. Allison/Tim will now post a list of exceptions :-) > >Only exception I know of is CD-ROM, which doesn't exactly have tracks, >but at least block 0 is on the inside and the higher-number blocks >are on the outside. I seem to remember something about the RD series disks (or at least the RD52 or RD53) installed in a PRO-series machine having the outermost track *not* track zero... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 8 months

4
5
0 0

Call for final Elf99 design input

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

At 02:47 PM 11/24/98 -0500, ethan wrote: > I am cranking along with the capture of the Elf99 design (on OrCAD > for DOS, a 10-year-old program, no less). I wanted to throw out what > I have descided on and ask for suggestions on what is not set in > stone. All the basic stuff sounds fine to me. > Options under consideration: > > o Sockets for two 1822/2101 256x4 SRAMs, the same style used by > the original Elf. I'd like that. PIO and UART would be extremely useful, probably more so than the prototyping area -- at least, to me. > o A pre-programmed 27256 with a "library" of simple programs That's a good idea. > Do we still have any interested parties? Yes :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

salvage hardware (fwd)

by danjo＠xnet.com

Relatively NEWER stuff - but you never know...... > Sure post it but please include a note that the items will have to be > picked up the week of Nov 30th - December 4th. Thanks > Amy >>---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:05:15 -0600 >>From: Amy Bryant <abryant(a)hamiltongrp.com> >>To: danjo(a)xnet.com >>Subject: salvage hardware >> >> I saw your name on the Internet as someone who is interested in older >> computer parts for free. I have 4 AST docking stations (no laptops) >> going in the trash unless I can find someone to come take them away. >> Also included box of parts with older hubs, bernoulli box, 5.5 " disk >> drives, keyboards, and lots of other stuff. >> We are located in the near north area just north of the loop. >> Please reply if you are interested. >> Thank you. >> Going soon.... >>****************************************** >>Amy Bryant 312.642.1825 >>Hamilton Communications Group >>ABRYANT(a)HAMILTONGRP.COM >>****************************************** BC

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Info on Motorola Educational Board

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: I'd like to start playing with the Motorola Educational Board that I got a few months back. I downloaded Xinu, a multitasking OS designed for it (and the dubject of several books). But, I'm having a devil of a time finding info on the hardware itself. Amazon has a book on it, but it's out of print. The book is "68000 Microcomputer Experiments: Using the Motorola Educationa Computer Board" Maybe someone has a pointer to schematics? Anything would be helpful. Thanks. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Posted tonight

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: Here's what was posted to the secure area of my Web site: - Altair article scans: parts 1-3 and 10 What remains is parts 4 through 9. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Call for final Elf99 design input

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< < o A protoyping area of .1" spaced plated-through holes, nominally < < a few inches long by one or two inches wide. A thought, Since holes cost... Reduce that to several lines of holes on .1 ctenters with .3 spacing between lines. That will accept dips in the .3(std parts) and .6 for the wide parts. Allison

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

2026

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

test-drb