- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by Watzman＠ibm.net

I'm looking for a Seattle Computer Products CPU Support card. It's an S-100 card with various mixed functions on it. If anyone has one or knows where I can find one, please let me know. Barry Watzman Watzman(a)ibm.net

27 years, 7 months

1
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Help fill in the blanks...

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

I've finally gotten round to putting a page up with the pictures that I shot at the Moffitt Field Historical Computer Collection "Visible Storage" facility during VCF II, but have spaced a bit on the identities of some of the artifacts. The page is not quite ready for public consumption yet, as it is still missing various titles and it should be a bit better organized... But, if anyone would like to take a look, and perhaps assist with identifying the units without titles, you can access the page at: http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/jcgm-mfhcc.html Until I get this page 'finished', there won't be a link from the regular 'Computer Garage' pages, so you will need to use the direct URL above. Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide! -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 7 months

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Commodore Pet 2001

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/23/98 4:22:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, handyman(a)sprintmail.com writes: > The Chicklet keyboard has several keys that are hard to get to > work, I must press some of them several times to work.. > Anyone have any ideas on how to clean them. Some of the people who clean keyboards for a living use Ultrasonic cleaners. Years ago I got a sample of a cleaner that you mixed with water that was formulated for ultrasonic keyboard cleaning. You also need an Ultrasonic cleaner that you can submerge a keyboard in. Unfortunately I don't have the name of the company anymore. Paxton

27 years, 7 months

1
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Old Radios

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I collect old radios, and I can definitely say differently. Just try plugging in a metal-cabinet radio with a few bad tubes, turning it on, and touching the case. Also, get out of the way when a shelf collapses with a 52-pound short-wave receiver on it. Other than that, you're probably right. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Marty <Marty(a)itgonline.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 2:40 PM Subject: Re: Old Radios > Come now comrade Griffiths, an old radio never hurt anyone. > > Marty > > >

27 years, 7 months

1
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Commodore Pet 2001

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Phil Clayton <handyman(a)sprintmail.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, 24 December 1998 11:54 Subject: Commodore Pet 2001 >Well I finally got an original Commodore Pet 2001 Nice find, they are getting rare. >8MB RAM Ahem, do you mean 8K RAM? Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 7 months

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OT, but info needed: RAM uprade

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Well, even though I haven't tried it yet, it HAS to be faster booting than my Toshiba 200CDS. (100MHz Pentium, 8 MB RAM, Win 95OSR2). It takes 15-20 minutes to boot, and with absolutely NOTHING running but Explorer and IE, 89% of all system resources are used. It's the worst computer I ever owned, and make more use of the 386-20 IBM PS/2 L40sx laptop w/ 6 MB RAM. And, I may add it only takes 1.34 minutes to boot (Win '95 OSR2) - yes, I timed it. Only problem is that the keyboard quit. Anyone have a replacement? I don't really feel like paying $90 for one from IBM. Happy Holidaze, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin <kurtkilg(a)geocities.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 1:37 PM Subject: Re: OT, but info needed: RAM uprade >A _little_? How many minutes does it take to boot? I have tried booting a >486sx/20 with 4 MB RAM from a premade Win95 setup, and it took a looong >time! I started and finished a major meal and it still wasn't done. >>my girlfriend runs Win95 on a 386/20 Dell laptop. a little slow, but >actually >>not that bad. oh, 4M of ram. the slowest thing is printing. >> >>Kelly > >

27 years, 7 months

1
0
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Old Radios

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, 24 December 1998 11:16 Subject: Re: Old Radios >> >> Come now comrade Griffiths, an old radio never hurt anyone. > >What, not even if you touch the chassis of an AA5 with wet hands? Da, tovarisch. Not to mention the exploding electrolytic effect when a radio that's sat through about 20 Australian summers in a tin shed and is dryer than most Middle Kingdom Egyptian Mummys is powered up for the first time. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 7 months

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Old Radios

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Come now comrade Griffiths, an old radio never hurt anyone. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Old Radios Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 12/23/98 4:54 PM The Old Radios Trade wrote: > > Dear Colleagues > > We have for sale multitude of rare russian antiquarian radios. > There are Zvezda 54 (RED STAR) , Belarus 53, SVD9 and many others solid radios. That's what we get for being an open list. Much better than any of the ads I get when I admit my existence on Usenet, anyway. -- Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/> WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Dec23.165400.1767.87080; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:54:01 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id NAA12688; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:51:12 -0800 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id NAA0 8636 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:51:08 -0800 Received: from news2.cnct.com (root(a)news2.cnct.com [165.254.118.49]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id NAA10 572 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:51:07 -0800 Received: from cnct.com (gram(a)terra.cnct.com [165.254.118.50]) by news2.cnct.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA26243 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:55:59 -0500 Message-Id: <36816730.3A480243(a)cnct.com> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:57:04 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Old Radios References: <65.981224(a)radiolink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sender: ward(a)news2.cnct.com X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 7 months

2
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Old Radios

by oldradios＠radiolink.net

Dear Colleagues We have for sale multitude of rare russian antiquarian radios. There are Zvezda 54 (RED STAR) , Belarus 53, SVD9 and many others solid radios. We have are the following portable radios: model, year. Gauya, 61 Neva, 60 Mir, 62 Lastochka, 62 Neva 2, 63 Kiev 7, 63 Planeta, 64 Saturn, 64 Selga, 63 Almaz, 64 Orbita, 65 Sokol 2, 65 Quartz 401, 70 Orbita 2, 70 Selga 402, 70 Yupiter, 64 Neiva, 64 Signal, 64 Etud, 67 Kosmos, 63 Orlenok, 67 Kosmos 602, 70 Rubin, 66 Surpris (Notebook), 67 Era 2M, 65 Mayak 1, 65 Mikro, 66 Atmosfera, 59 Alpinist, 64 Kosmonavt, 64 Riga 301A, 66 Geala, 68 Spidola, 62 Banga, 65 Sport 2, 66 Sokol 4, 67 Sonata, 65 Souvenir, 65 Meridian, 67 Wef 12, 67 Wega, 68 Russia 301, 70 Okean, 70 Riga 103, 68 Riga 302, 69 Also we have multitude of old russian vacuum tubes and old radio details. We have old russian TV's, LP's, old audio articles and cameras. Please inform what are you interested from Russia ? We will be happy to help you. Unfortunately we can not make photos of our radios. Therefore we are sending you a photo of Russian Red Star which made collector from England. If you interested something please let us know. Our e-mail is: oldradios(a)radiolink.net Yours sincerely The Old Radios Trade

27 years, 7 months

3
2
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Free to museum or collector

by pctech＠davidbowie.com

I'll take it -----Original Message----- From: Daniel T. Burrows <dburrows(a)netpath.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 9:59 AM Subject: Fw: Free to museum or collector >Found this on usenet if anyone is interested. >Dan >-----Original Message----- >From: Stan Korzep <%skorzep(a)magicnet.net> >Newsgroups: misc.forsale.computers.other.misc >Date: Monday, December 21, 1998 7:45 PM >Subject: Free to museum or collector > > >Zenith Z100 monitor/computer/keyboard like new. Operational. ZDOS and >CPM. All Documentation. Modem. Printer. Extra power supply. Owner was >ready to pitch it. Free to good home if new home will pay shipping. > >Contact Gene at gene_grant(a)msn.com. >

27 years, 7 months

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Fw: Free to museum or collector

by dburrows＠netpath.net

Found this on usenet if anyone is interested. Dan -----Original Message----- From: Stan Korzep <%skorzep(a)magicnet.net> Newsgroups: misc.forsale.computers.other.misc Date: Monday, December 21, 1998 7:45 PM Subject: Free to museum or collector Zenith Z100 monitor/computer/keyboard like new. Operational. ZDOS and CPM. All Documentation. Modem. Printer. Extra power supply. Owner was ready to pitch it. Free to good home if new home will pay shipping. Contact Gene at gene_grant(a)msn.com.

27 years, 7 months

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Price of a Lisa 2?

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: I got a message from a German involved in the sale of a Lisa 2, and he asked me to estimate a fair price. Not having too much experience in Lisa pricing (unless someone wants to sell me one :-)), I told him that I'd check it out for him. Here are the stats: >Lisa II >Working (Screen unstable). >It has a 3-1/2 floppy drive. >0.5 MB (or 1MB; unsure) RAM >10 MB hard disk >Software (all in German): LisaCalc, LisaList, LisaWrite, LisaGraph >and the manuals (on backup disks, not on the original disks). What do y'all think? [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 7 months

7
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VAX/VMS Assistance Requested

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> If you have any programming languages at all on the machine you could try > writing a uudecode utility and then uuencoding the kermit binary on another > machine, and doing the cut and paste you were talking about. You could > probably write a uudecode in DCL, but it would be slow, ugly, and nasty. You shouldn't need to do that, especially to get KERMIT over. KERMIT-32 (the old Macro-32'ed BLISSengized version) includes a hexengized program and a small dehexer. You type in the dehexer (which is written in MACRO-32) and transmit the hexengized kermit using something like MS-DOS kermit's TRANSFER command (which sends a line at a time) then use the dehexer to dehex the hexengized version and voila! KERMIT up and running. FTP on over to kermit.columbia.edu or web over to http://www.columbia.edu/kermit and look about. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

27 years, 7 months

1
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rz23s

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

Well, my 2 100mb drives from alltronics arrived. They are indeed rz23s. And the price turned out to be $14.95 each. A good deal, assuming they work. -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? -----------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 7 months

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OT, but info needed: RAM uprade

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I do agree that 4 MB can do a good amount of stuff (even run IE3.02 for win 3.1). Minix would be great, but my friend wanted to have Win'95 on it, which is why I threw in the 120MB HD and 14.4 modem. I figured that since my IBM laptop runs Win'95 fairly good with a 386-20, 120MB HD, and 6 MB RAM, that the Tandy (486-20) would run it great with 10 MB RAM, until I discovered that the RAM wouldn't work, and it only has 4 MB. Would a new BIOS chip solve the problem, or does the RAM limitation have to do with the M/B? I know in my Tandy 1800HD (same as 3800HD, but a 286), when I put in the 4 MB chips, the computer boots, and recognizes 1 MB out of each of the chips, then runs down a huge list of memory errors, then works fine (after the errors are done). If a new BIOS won't work, has anyone ever ran Win'95 with 4 MB RAM? How does it perform? ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 7:11 PM Subject: Re: OT, but info needed: RAM uprade > >I have run win3.1 in 2mb of ram and 40mb of disk(386/20). Netscape would >never run as they admit it want at least 5mb (and it's cranky at that). I >was able to run a lot of stuff and most dos programs successfully > >that was in '93 coad bloat would make that harder but at 4mb you could run >quite a bit. FYI, minix 3.0 in 4mb screams. > >Allison > >

27 years, 7 months

3
2
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HELP

by pctech＠davidbowie.com

OK this thing is a trip if i keep turning it off and then on it boots to a prompt but if i just turn it on the 5 1\4 drive just stays on and it does nothing.I would be led to believe that there is something wrong. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Strickland <jim(a)calico.litterbox.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, December 21, 1998 7:05 PM Subject: Re: HELP >> >That is in the left hand corner.But it goes no >> >further,Does anyone have any idea what is going >> >on???? i have never messed with one of these >> >and i dont know what its going on here.PLEASE >> >help me!!! Do i need disks???? >> >> Yep, you need disks. Go get a copy of ProDOS or some other Apple II OS. I >> don't know where to find them, bet there's lots of Apple II stuff on the >> internet and I know that there are disk images out ther SOMEWHERE. Try the >> comp.sys.apple2 FAQ, and of course some WebCrawler searches wouldn't hurt... >> >> >alltech is a licensed supplier of boot disks. www.allelec.com > >you can get the disks from apple's FTP site, but without a boot disk of >any kind that doesn't help you much. > >Byteworks also sells them. >http://www.hypermall.com/byteworks/ > >-- >Jim Strickland >jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? >-----------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 7 months

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Weekend acqusitions and horny dilemmas...

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

(...or should that be: "on the horns of a dilemma?") A VERY good weekend, with the possble exception of the 'Digi-Comp' that got away (at least for the present...) Santa dropped a whole back seat full of assorted S-100 boards and such my way (and I drive a Suburban, so I've got a BIG back seat!) Some assembled units and a number of unassembled (!) kits, some still in the original shrinkwrap/baggies! Now the dilemma: in trolling thru the garage archives (read that: rack shelving) recently, I came across my collection of Cromemco games (on paper tape) for Altair (or similar), Dazzler, D+7A, and joystick. All of which I have in the collection except for the joystick. I've got the docs on it, just not the physical unit... Until now... And there you have the dilemma - the Cromemco joystick is one of the (pristine) unassembled units that came in the stack! So now, do I follow my initial thot of building/adapting a joystick to play the games, or warm up the soldering iron and assemble the Cromemco unit? (which would complete the original configuration) Sigh... And then there is the LOCI-2 and it's 'bed of nails' card reader... (LOgarithmetic Computing Instrument I'm told) ...and the... Heath H-10!!! (hah!! I finally got one!) <BIG GRIN> All of these decisions just before I start my Christmas vacation... -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 7 months

6
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OT: Online auctins an institution?

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/22/98 4:49:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au writes: > > I seem to recall that this is the reason the Pentium(c) is called that and > not > a 586. Intel tried to copyright it, (to stop clone chip makers calling > their cpu's > "586's", and were told by the courts (?) that a numerical sequence couldn't > be > copyrighted. > Actually I believe that Intel lost their copyright on the X86s by allowing others to use the numbering system. In the US you have to vigorously protect your copyright to keep it. Intel was lax and allowed the sequence to become common words and numbers. Paxton

27 years, 7 months

2
1
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Evans & Sutherland Y2K scrapyard heads-up

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 21, 18:20, Scott Ware wrote: > SGI also does not certify any of their systems with 68K, R2000, or R3000 > processors to be Y2K compliant, presumably because they cannot run IRIX > 6.5. Watch your local scrap dealer for IRIS 2000/3000, 4D series, and > Indigo R3000 systems. IRIX 5.3 and above are all Y2K compliant (providing they include the rlevant patches). Indigo R3000 and 4D systems running IRIX 5.3 *will* take all the Y2K patches (there aren't many, since 5.3 was mostly Y2K compliant anyway). I know; I did a survey on this earlier this year, and I've just finished (literally, about 5 minutes ago) installing the Y2K patches on an Indigo Elan for my wife's Christmas present. Of course, if you can get one at a reasonable price, an Indigo is a very nice classic (though not quite by this list's definition, it was released in 1991) machine. Now if only I could get a copy of Star Office or Word Perfect for Irix 5.3... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 7 months

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Info needed: Loci 2

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Amongst a stack of new acqusitions today a rather interesting looking unit branded "LOCI 2". Based on the name/serial number plate on the rear, it is an electronic programmable calculator. Apparently built by Wang Labs. One of the interesting things about it (to me at least) was an accessory that came with it. A card reader. Reads cards in the IBM 80 column form factor, but they are different. The cards (of which I received a supply along with the unit) carry 40 columns of data, have perforated holes for manlau punching, and are masked to indicate 80 steps of programming information. (pictures to follow on my web site in the next few days) It was supposed to be functional when it was put in storage (some years ago), but it will probably be a while before I can start working htru a pre-start routine on it. Anyone familiar with this unit? And does anyone have any docs on it? -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 7 months

2
1
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OT, but info needed: RAM uprade

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<You'd be surprised what you can do with 4MB RAM. Actually, lots <of 486's shipped with 4MB and Windows 3.1. You just need to be <conservative, and use swap. Actually, I've heard that you can get <by with 2MB... but I wouldn't believe it even if I saw it. I have run win3.1 in 2mb of ram and 40mb of disk(386/20). Netscape would never run as they admit it want at least 5mb (and it's cranky at that). I was able to run a lot of stuff and most dos programs successfully that was in '93 coad bloat would make that harder but at 4mb you could run quite a bit. FYI, minix 3.0 in 4mb screams. Allison

27 years, 7 months

1
0
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VAX/VMS Assistance Requested

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

-----Original Message----- From: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)retrocomputing.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, 23 December 1998 13:22 Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Assistance Requested >Ah!!!! Never mind! I started digging through the old user >directories on the machine and found a copy of kermit.exe! >Yes! The hacker spirit triumphs! Ok, sounds like you're all set. If I were you the first things I'd stick on there would be Zip and Zmodem. Kermit is painfully slow and most installation file sets are zipped these days. If you want to break free of the terminal server, CMUIP is a freeware IP stack for VMS. Good luck with it. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)

27 years, 7 months

1
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VAX/VMS Assistance Requested

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

-----Original Message----- From: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)retrocomputing.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, 23 December 1998 13:04 Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Assistance Requested >Just for sake of description, I'm using a Mac SE running System 7.0.1 as >a console to the Vax. =-) I won't hold it against you. Whatever works. ;^) >I do not have a qbus ethernet board. Someone on the list had them for >$50 but I'm wretchedly poor so I make due with serial connections to my >freebie machines. Familiar feeling....:^) I also have a Microvax II sans ethernet. >It's running VMS5.3-1. But that just gave me an idea. Someone on the list >said they were doing Decnet with a Linux box. I spend ALL my time every >day hacking on Linux boxes and have several at home. Hmmm...I'll have to >dig back through the list postings! =-) Hmm, NetBSD supports Microvax II's pretty well these days. If you are more comfortable with that than VMS. (Keep the VMS license PAK's though, you will need them if you want to reinstall VMS at some future time.) This is the URL to the DECnet for Linux page.... http://linux.dreamtime.org/decnet/ I don't know if it works over a serial port connection on a Vax though.... Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)

27 years, 7 months

1
0
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VAX/VMS Assistance Requested

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)retrocomputing.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, 23 December 1998 11:56 Subject: VAX/VMS Assistance Requested >Ok, here's the scoop. I actually have a MicroVax II on the net kinda >sorta via a terminal server. Uh, ok. >But my problem is that I've got no way to >get binaries on and off the machine. >have no file transfer capabilities >on it as far as I can tell Does it have a tape or floppy drive? >My understanding is that you can take any file, binary, text, etc and put >it in a share archive (IE .shar) extension, transfer it to the machine in >text mode (basically cut and paste in a terminal window or using an ASCII >transfer) and simply execute it using a @. > >Does the kermit binary(ies) exist someplace via ftp >in a .shar archive? Not AFAIK. > >Maybe I'm being completely ignorant here. Because I can reliably telnet Is the telnet function being supplied by the terminal server and not by an IP stack on the machine itself? Does it have a network card? Are there any other Vaxen there? An asynchronous Decnet connection is a possibility even if it doesn't have a network card. I'm assuming it's running VMS? Or NetBSD? >to the machine I'd like to clean it up, make a backup image on tape, This implies it has a TK50 or similar. Someone on the list who is closer to you, that has Vaxen with TK tapes, might be able to send you Zmodem or Kermit binaries on TK50 if that's the case. That would likely be the easiest way. Hope this helps. Geoff Roberts VK5KDR Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 7 months

2
3
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TV Typewriter Cookbook

by lwalker＠mail.interlog.com

A couple of good finds lately: A JDH Videomate a predecessor of TV cards. Which works with a VGA like a VCR does with the 8-bits. Works but need a manual. A Kraft KC-3 Joy-Stick ,swichable to work on an A-ll or PC with 9 and 15 pin connector. Nicest J-S I've seen. My main find tho was a "TV Typewriter Cookbook" from Sams by Don Lancaster, the author of the TTL cookbook among others. Might be old hat to most members on the list, but I find it's an amazing book. My apologies to those who've seen it before. Wozniac and others must have been influenced by it. A quote (long) from the end of the book is interesting. " WHERE TO FROM HERE? When this book was started, there was only one low-cost hobby microcomputer (the Mark-8) and only one very dated tvt (the TVT-1). If you could get them, 2102's were $30 each and nonexistent microprocessor chips were advertised for $300 to $400 each, without documentation, and the key interface and support chips were a figment of the data-sheet writer's imagination. Peoples Computer Company CC) and the Amateur Computer Society (ACS) were voices crying in the wilderness. An incredibly short time later, the hobbyist and experimenter are literally swamped with microprocessor computers and CPU evaluation kits. Well-documented and supported CPUs are now available for $20 each in single quantities. The 2102's are available as surplus for $1.50 each, only slightly over a tenth of a cent per bit. PROMs have dramatically dropped in price to half a cent per bit and less . Computer and tvt-user clubs and groups exist by the dozens. Besides PCC (Peoples Computer Company. Box 310 Menlo Park, CA 94025), and the numerous smaller newsletters, major computer hobbyist magazines now exist with excellent editorial materials, professional graphics, and wide distribution. These include BYTE, Interface and Microtek. Universities, junior colleges, industries, and even high schools now offer microprocessor courses. There are now dozens of retail computer stores. Now what? Where do we go from here? The answer literally changes by the minute. In fact, if things continue at their present explosive rate, many of the basic principles in this book may seem quaint or primitive by the time you read this. Let's suppose that for an instant we could freeze time at November, 1975. Suppose further that your main interest was not in experimenting with a CPU and software like everyone else, but was aimed at bringing tvt's and other truly low-cost peripherals as near to reality as possible, so that something useful could be done cheaply with the CPUs everyone else was building. Here, as I see it, are the major tvt-related questions that you can help answer at this instant in time: * Can a basic low-cost tv typewriter with cursor and memory be built to retail at the hobbyist level for $39.95? * Can a miniature calculator-style ASCII keyboard and encoder with quality features (2KRO, choice of strobe, tactile response, two shot keys) be built to retail at the hobbyist level for $14.95? * What is the longest length and highest character quality that can be obtained with direct rf entry of an unmodified tv set? * Can you build a legal, universal, single-channel rf modulator to retail at the hobbyist level for $4.95? * What is the minimum possible cost for a snap-on Selectric base-plate adapter and converter? How fast will it operate? Can it be made to enter as well as print? * How do you add light-pen feedback to graphic and tvt displays? * Can a single microprocessor such as an MOS Technology 6502 provide all the timing and control for a stand-alone tvt? * What are the most effective software and algorithms needed for graphic display games and puzzles? * Can you design a simple CPU backup for a graphics tvt that will move chessmen following chess notation, e.g., Bishop to King's Rook 5? * Can you build a basic compiler on a chip or two? * What is the setup needed for a tvt-oriented wordprocessing system to be used for addressing, printing form letters, and so on? Can this be done without a CPU? * What is the simplest and cheapest dedicated "super front panel" tvt configuration you can come up with that will read out the entire memory contents of a microcomputer a page at a time? ? Can you make it sequentially read out locations in hex or octa1 instead of ASCII? * Can you come up with a simple and universal locking system for video titling and superposition on existing EIA sync programs, both for studio and home video-recording uses? Can you make it crawl, have variable character size and shape, etc.? * How do you use a tvt for printed-circuit and schematic layouts? * What is he best way a CPU and tvt can interact with an electronic music synthesis system? * What about video art synthesis? Can you build a super spirograph? Make it follow music? Where to from here? Get literature. Pour over trade journals. Join a club. Subscribe to PCC, Interface and BYTE. Collect newsletters. Take some courses. Read. Read. Read. " Now that was excited enthusiasm you don't see any more. ciao larry lwalker(a)interlog.com

27 years, 7 months

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OT: Online auctins an institution?

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Hans Franke <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, 23 December 1998 4:34 Subject: Re: OT: Online auctins an institution? >Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> >Just tell me you are joking - next time someone copyrights the >number 5 and you have to pay to use it ? C'mon, they CAN'T >copyright data - only representations ... It can't go that >way. I seem to recall that this is the reason the Pentium(c) is called that and not a 586. Intel tried to copyright it, (to stop clone chip makers calling their cpu's "586's", and were told by the courts (?) that a numerical sequence couldn't be copyrighted. >> There most certainly are companies that claim ownership of raw data, and there >> in not yet enough established case law in this area. Some of the courts have >> ruled in favor of plaintifs in these cases. Shakespeare had the right idea. "First, lets kill all the lawyers" The USA is not the entire world either. A company established in say, Latvia or Kazahkstan selling such information might as well be on the dark side of the moon as far as US courts/laws are concerned. >Hmm, you sound realy serious. It's ridicoulus ... next time >time some University claims the fact that the earth is measured >25.000 Miles around and wants royalities from everyone using this >fact ? Maybe thats a way to convert the US to the metric system ... >just copyright all mesurements in Miles and Inches ad so on ... Now there's a thought......:^) Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 7 months

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sun hard drive info needed

by KFergason＠aol.com

SUN0535 labeled drives were typically a Seagate 3610. There was at least one other model used, but it was also in the 600Mb range. Kelly In a message dated 12/22/98 1:26:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, jruschme(a)exit109.com writes: > Either way, both should work fine on a PC. You may need, however, to move > the jumper which causes the drive to wait for the startup command. > > FYI, though, I can't speak for the 524, but the 424's have a tendancy to > get real loud as they get older. Something to think about... > > <<john>>> > > > I think that the Sun 424 is a Seagate ST1480N. I'm not sure about the > > Sun 524 drive. > > > > SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com wrote: > > > > > > someone wants to trade some sun scsi drives for a cd rom i have. he said > they > > > are sun 424 and 535 drives. where i can i get info on these drives? i > have no > > > idea what capacity or form factor, much less if they will work in a pc.

27 years, 7 months

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OT, but info needed: RAM uprade

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Hello everyone... I have a question: I have a Tandy 3800HD laptop that I' trying to upgrade for a friend, with a 486-20 processor, 120 MB HD, 14.4 modem, VGA, and 4 MB RAM. It's a great little computer, but it really can't do much with 4 MB RAM. It has 2 MB on board, and 2 MB in (2) 1 MB 30-pin SIMMS. I have (2) 4 MB 30-pin SIMMS that I tried putting in to put it up to 10 MB. However, when I turn it on, absolutely nothing happens (the screen occasionally lights up). Do I need a some sort of BIOS upgrade, or am I basically stuck with the 4 MB? It currently has Win 3.0 on it, because even with 3.1, it doesn't have enough RAM to do anything. Happy Holidaze -and- ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 7 months

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Back on the List

by tim＠thereviewguide.com

Hi. For those who remember, and for those who care, I'm back. After coming back from my vacation to my new home in Guyana... (yes, I swore off Kool Aid) and found that it had numerous problems. After sorting most of them out, getting back on-track, and then spending lots of time thinking about but not doing, I got back on the list. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze

27 years, 7 months

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sun hard drive info needed

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

someone wants to trade some sun scsi drives for a cd rom i have. he said they are sun 424 and 535 drives. where i can i get info on these drives? i have no idea what capacity or form factor, much less if they will work in a pc. david

27 years, 7 months

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Info Needed: Motorola EXORcisor 6800 System

by Arlen.Michaels.amichael＠nortelnetworks.com

> Kevin McQuiggin <mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca> wrote: > > Anybody else have one of these? I understand that Bill Yakowenko (sp?) > does, but don't have his email. > > Any and all info appreciated. There's nothing on ther web that I can find. > It dates from 1975. > I remember seeing these used to develop embedded microprocessor systems for applications like industrial control, back in 1979. I was using a Kontron development system then so I didn't use the EXORcisor firsthand. As I recall, it had a backplane that accepted cards from Motorola and a few 3rd-party manufacturers (cpu, memory, serial ports, etc). The cards had dimensions similar to S-100 but were 86-pin or something like that, and of course the bus incorporated more 6800-ish signals, like the E clock signal used to synchronize bus events. The idea was that you could run the EXORcisor itself as a general-purpose computer (monitor, editor, assembler, Basic, and so on--running on top of a proprietary Motorola OS that I can't recall) and you could stuff in any special boards you were developing for your application and so integrate them into your software development. When you had the code debugged, you'd blow an eprom, pull the boards out and stuff them into their own cabinet, insert the eprom, and start up your embedded system independent of the EXORcisor. One interesting thing was that many of Motorola's standalone (KIM-like) single-board computer "development kits" like the "D2" had the same EXORcisor bus connector and you could easily mix-and-match those boards with standard EXORcisor cards. I have a couple of EXORcisor cards somewhere (a Burr-Brown D to A card, some memory boards I think?) but no EXORcisor and no documents. So if you have documentation I'd like to take advantage and get copies of the relevant schematics, etc. I also think I have a couple of ROMs containing Motorola Basic that would probably work if plugged into an EXORcisor memory card. The system you've got probably sold for upwards of $20K back then. This was state-of-the-art professional gear, so admiration and respect are warranted :) Arlen -- Arlen Michaels amichael(a)nortelnetworks.com

27 years, 7 months

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OT - power supplies

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

Thanks to all who replied. I was concerned that if the PSs are really pulling 7 amps each I was going to run out of power really quickly in my computer room, which is fed by a single 20 amp circuit. However, since they're not, my 3 soon to be 4 computers, tv, and laser printer will (hopefully) all peacefully coexist. Again, thanks. :) -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? -----------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 7 months

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OT: Online auctins an institution?

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

I can't believe what an institution online auctions have now become. Check out this preposterous item up for bid: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=49600496 Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 12/07/98]

27 years, 7 months

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HP9100 EHT oscillator transistor

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

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27 years, 7 months

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HP9100 EHT oscillator transistor

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, 22 December 1998 15:24 Subject: Re: HP9100 EHT oscillator transistor >If it is a 2N1701, then the maximum collector current for that device is >2.5A. The transistor is part of a blocking oscillator using the EHT >transformer, the supply to which is fused at 750mA. But the maximum >collector current for a BF259 is only 100mA. I am suprised it worked at >all, but work it did. It will be a short life I suspect. It's probably drawing around 200ma. >The maximum voltage is not a problem. The oscillator runs off an >unregulated 20V line, and there are no HV spikes flying around. The >2N1701 is only rated at 60-odd volts, which the BF259 (or any of the >other transistors I've tried) can stand trivially. Well, a 2SD350 or 380 are fairly common HOP transistors, they will certainly run at line freq, I don't have a data book handy, but they have Ic ratings of well over an amp. 2N3055 might work too, though I'm not certain it could handle the frequency. They all have TO3 cases though, so mounting it might be a headache. If I can dig up a data book in this mess I'll see what else I can come up with. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)

27 years, 7 months

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SunOS -- was: Evans & Sutherland Y2K scrapyard heads-up

by KFergason＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/22/98 9:33:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, dhansen(a)zebra.net writes: > SunOS and Solaris were seperate creatures up until about Solaris 2.4 and > SunOS 5.4 when they began merging the two into one entity. > As for the numbering scheme that is definitely weird. It's advertised as > Solaris 7, yet in the code it comes up as 2.7. Guess their marketing dept. > had an afterthought about it. > I don't know where you are getting this. Solaris is an "environment". Always has been. It includes SunOS, Openwindows, and tools. Real developement ended on SunOS 4 about 7 years ago, 4.1.4 being the last released version about 3-4 years ago. Also called Solaris 1.1.2. Yes, the Solaris moniker was retrofitted to the SunOS 4 stuff. SunOS 5, also called Solaris 2, is running rampant as we speak. the Solaris 7 thing, well, we figured that was just to get a bigger number than NT 5. course, now its windows 2000. Solaris 7, aka 5.7, aka 2.7, still returns 5.7 in the uname commands to ensure compatibility with scripts, etc. This is even on topic, sort of. The Sun announcement of what would become Solaris was in 1987. Kelly

27 years, 7 months

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SunOS -- was: Evans & Sutherland Y2K scrapyard heads-up

by dhansen＠zebra.net

SunOS and Solaris were seperate creatures up until about Solaris 2.4 and SunOS 5.4 when they began merging the two into one entity. As for the numbering scheme that is definitely weird. It's advertised as Solaris 7, yet in the code it comes up as 2.7. Guess their marketing dept. had an afterthought about it. david On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) wrote: >On Dec 21, 23:04, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > >> Indeed. SunOS 4.1.x is what I was referring to. I generally assume that >> someone who mentions "SunOS" is referring to versions previous to 5.0 and >> "Solaris" refers to versions 5.0 and later, although I realise that >> Solaris is officially SunOS. > >I wasn't sure what was meant, but what you describe is what I usually >assume as well (though SunOS != Solaris, according to Sun -- they seem to >have changed their marketing position recently, to say nothing of the >numbering scheme). > >-- > >Pete Peter Turnbull > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York

27 years, 7 months

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SuperPET vs 8096

by ckaiser＠oa.ptloma.edu

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27 years, 7 months

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SunOS -- was: Evans & Sutherland Y2K scrapyard heads-up

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 21, 23:04, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > Indeed. SunOS 4.1.x is what I was referring to. I generally assume that > someone who mentions "SunOS" is referring to versions previous to 5.0 and > "Solaris" refers to versions 5.0 and later, although I realise that > Solaris is officially SunOS. I wasn't sure what was meant, but what you describe is what I usually assume as well (though SunOS != Solaris, according to Sun -- they seem to have changed their marketing position recently, to say nothing of the numbering scheme). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 7 months

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Southern California TRW Swap

by jpl15＠netcom.com

To any of us who will be in or near the SoCal area this Northern-Hemisphere Solstice proximate weekend: Greetings. The TRW Amateur Radio Swapfest will be held on 26th December at the TRW facilities in El Segundo, Cal from 7:30 am til 11:30 am.. 405 (San Diego) freeway to Rosecrans exit, Rosecrans west to Aviation, Aviation south (turn under the railway bridge) one block and it will be on your right. The closest intersection is Aviation and Marine. E-mail me if more info is needed. If any interest, those who Show Up will be invited to an after-swap luncheon whereat we can gloat/whine over the day's 'catch'. Marvin and I will be in spaces J-21 and -23. Cheers John PS: WX is clear, crisp and beautiful; not like last time...

27 years, 7 months

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Info Needed: Motorola EXORcisor 6800 System

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Hi Again: Anybody else have one of these? I understand that Bill Yakowenko (sp?) does, but don't have his email. Any and all info appreciated. There's nothing on ther web that I can find. It dates from 1975. Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca

27 years, 7 months

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New updates to Secret Weapons of Commodore

by ckaiser＠oa.ptloma.edu

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27 years, 7 months

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TV Typewriter Cookbook

by Arlen.Michaels.amichael＠nortelnetworks.com

> >My main find tho was a "TV Typewriter Cookbook" from Sams by Don >Lancaster, the Have to check my basement, but I _think_ I have an extra copy of this book if anyone needs it. Arlen -- Arlen Michaels amichael(a)nortelnetworks.com

27 years, 7 months

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Rair systems

by Arlen.Michaels.amichael＠nortelnetworks.com

> Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> wrote: > > Oh cool. I didn't think anyone would have ever heard of these, let alone > work with one as Jim did. > I think they're genuinely rair ;) I also own two. The first was a hand-me-down from the Scottish university where I worked in the early 80's. (Too bad I wasn't able to inherit the Perq they had around then too!) I found my second Rair, incredibly, at a garage sale in Aylmer, Quebec, only a few months ago. Information about these machines is scarce also, although I'd expect Tony and other friends in the UK might be in a better position to dig something up. These rather elegantly styled micros (well, for the time: 1979-81) originated in England. The earliest models were built using the 8085, around an idiosyncratic motherboard/bus design (not S-100), and ran CP/M. Mine has the most complex-looking, overdesigned switch-mode power supply I've ever seen (although some DEC models perhaps come close). I think, but I'm not sure, that they put 8086's into their later models. Around 1981, I recall the British computer conglomerate ICL re-badged the Rair micros under their own name and sold them that way for a couple of years, probably because like many other huge computer companies they needed to get a micro on the market quickly to regain some credibility in the new marketplace for small computers. Somewhere, I have a reference to a defunct American company (Drake Micros?) that sold Rair for a while. If anyone is desperate to know I will dig up that bit of history. My original Rair machine is I think the original design: dual floppies, 32K ram, running CP/M v1.4 with a dumb terminal. It runs, and I can supply a boot disk for this model. The other machine is a little more recent and is blessed with a hard drive and is supposed to run CP/M v2.2 --but it won't boot. The hardware design is quite different from the original model, and my v1.4 floppy won't boot up this machine. So, if anyone can provide a system disk for this beastie I'd be very grateful. Arlen -- Arlen Michaels amichael(a)nortelnetworks.com

27 years, 7 months

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Free Kaypros

by JWRobertson＠SkyBest.Com

I have two Kaypro machines, (a II and a IIX) both with daisy wheel printers (a converted SCM teletypewriter and a Juki marketed under the Kaypro name). I have all of the original software, documentation, cables, etc. as well as some supplies (extra ribbons, printwheels, floppies, etc.). When last used, about ten years ago, everything worked fine. I would like to donate these items to anyone who will pick them up. I would be unable to pack and ship them. I am located in Sparta, NC, which is located in the Northwest North Carolina mountains close to where NC, VA, and TN meet. If you have any interest and are able to pick them up or have someone do it for you, please E-mail me at jwrobertson(a)skybest.com.

27 years, 7 months

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Another ~1960 computer kit

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:30 PM 12/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >making a small radio receiver powered off an AC line. And the book says, >"for all ages". We don't have these things anymore, it's hard to learn. When I was a kid, (<7 y.o.) I wanted my drill to be just like my dad's. So I tied a piece of string around the handle, tied a paper clip to the other end, and plugged it in. Luckily, we had flame retardent carpeting and a good family doctor. Recently, my idiot sister's idiot dog bit a woman who worked for a neighbor. In talking with her, she told me that "this is the sort of thing you hope for." I believe she got about $20K out of my insurance company before they cancelled my insurance. So, with those two examples, can anyone guess why companies are reluctant to produce things like we would like them to? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 7 months

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Bernoulli Box

by mpasser＠CSTP.UMKC.EDU

I have a the drivers diskette for the 10Mb devices. I believe the controller card is a PC2B or something along those lines. It could be had with or without a boot ROM. Please drop me a line at mwp(a)acm.org with if you haven't found a copy, and I'll arrange to get them to you some way (electronically or snail mail). -- Mike Passer

27 years, 7 months

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Evans & Sutherland Y2K scrapyard heads-up

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 21, 21:17, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > Subject: Re: Evans & Sutherland Y2K scrapyard heads-up > On Mon, 21 Dec 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > My guess would be any Sun that only runs SunOS isn't, and won't be Y2k. To > > the best of my knowledge they've no intention of making SunOS Y2k as they > > want you running Solaris. > > I'll have to check the site again...we don't run any SunOS machines, so I > didn't pay too much attention. But I was under the impression that any Y2K > problem with the Sun3's was about the NVRAM, No, while they do have a problem with the NVRAM/clock chip, that's far from the only issue with SunOS. > and that there are patches > available for some of the 4/xxx series and the Sparcs that are still > running the most current SunOS. Which is not usable on a Sun3. "Current SunOS" is Solaris 2.6. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 7 months

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Bernoulli Box

by rws＠eagle.ais.net

Hi everybody- A while back I got an Iomega Bernoulli Box at a hamfest, along with a big stack of cartridges. It's almost the exact same size, shape, and style as an XT, with dual 10MB 8" drives. I also got the sort-of-SCSI host adapter card. I didn't worry much about asking the guy about drivers, because, hey, there's a bazillion Bernoulli Box users out there, right? Wrong. I can't seem to find anything of use on the web, Iomega's site doesn't yield anything except that the drivers that sound like they should work, have a line buried deep in the readme file that says that they don't support 8" drives. So, I ask: Does anyone have the drivers for Bernoulli Box 10MB 8" Alpha drives? I'd really appreciate a copy. Thanks, Richard ps. The pictures of the weird systems I promised a while back- I'm still working on them. The film's still got some exposures left.

27 years, 7 months

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Kids these days (was: Another ~1960 computer kit)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

>LEGO MindStorms, the lucky bastards. Heehee, aren't we though? 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 7 months

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