- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>As to the keyboard, the answer is a custom one... I have the HP150 >TechRef here, and if the keyboard connector is 6 pin (and not HP-HIL), >then it's an original HP150. Just to confirm, you have a CRT that doesn't >tilt in the case, and 2 expansion slots horizontally at the back, yes? Well... I wouldn't say it tilts _in_ the case, but it does have a tiltable stand. There are two horizontal expansion slots on the back - and - one of them has an HP-HIL interface card in it. >I have the schematic of the keyboard, and you're in luck. There's nothing >remotely custom in there. Not even a microcontroller or a ROM. It's all >plain 4000-series CMOS running at 12V... I'll respond to this part in the morning. :-) Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

27 years, 6 months

2
1
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OT? Help with Compaq Deskpro 486-33L

by hansp＠digiweb.com

I am helping a friend add a CDROM to his Compaq system. It has is an IDE cable but the driver that came with the CDROM does not recognize the drive. I suspect the IDE address and/or IRQ may not have been standard at that time. Does anyone have the tech specs on this compaq system? I've checked the Compaq support site and though there is some info it is not terribly helpful. Regards, -- Hans B Pufal Tel: +33 (0)476 12 90 24 /\ Field Application Engineer Mobile: +33 (0)607 71 77 02 /\/\ American Megatrends International <mailto:hansp@ami.com> _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue <mailto:hansp@digiweb.com> <http://digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc> Hans B Pufal Avigo developers resource <mailto:hansp@digiweb.com> <http://digiweb.com/~hansp/avigo> Hans B Pufal DEC PDP-9 Restoration Project <mailto:hansp@digiweb.com> <http://digiweb.com/~hansp/PDP9>

27 years, 6 months

1
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Merced - and the ol' Unix story (was Re: OT, but info needed: RAM uprade)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<That was DEC, when they were first plugging Ultrix. It's basically a <New Hampshire license plate from the era. ("Live free or die" is the <New Hampshire state motto, the only notable quote from the commander Yes the same dec where a the teeshirt with: the slashed circle (no/not) with the letters "unix" in it. the caption was: unix, the unsystem never had it never will and the DIGITAL keys (white on blue blocks). Right after I got mine ATT got DOD to go with unix as a standard... Then all of a sudden unix was important. Allison

27 years, 6 months

1
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micropolis 1355

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> > The other cure is to open up the HDA and free the head manually. If you <> > do this in reasonably clean conditions (not necessarily a proper clean <> > room) then you should be OK. <> <> I've done that, but now it spins up, and after appr. 1 minute spins down <> again and spins up, .... < <Hmm... I've never seen one do that. The microcontroller is obviously <finding _something_ wrong, but no idea what (yet). The 13xx series has a rubber bumper the head actuator contacs when resting and from heat and age it gets sticky... the head can't seek as it's glued and the drive spins down. The fix is to unstick the head and somehow deal with the sticky material. Allison

27 years, 6 months

1
0
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Almost OT: How can that be?

by zmerch＠30below.com

On or about 01:24 AM 1/15/99 -0500, R. Stricklin (kjaeros) was caught in a dark alley speaking these words: >On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Roger Merchberger wrote: > >> Mind you, it's not a whopping lot faster, but how it can be faster (by a >> few to five percent) is this: Larry Wall (who wrote Perl) optimized it in >> such a way that any ol' schmuck (like me) says "I could do this in C!!!" >> and does so, but not as efficiently as Larry did... therefore, code in Perl >> is faster than the reworked version in C. > >This isn't always true. 'Tis why I said *can* be faster... not *is*. :-) > When I wrote a de-artifacter for images captured >from a video source, I wrote it first in PERL to prove to myself the >algorithm I conceived would work; I used PERL because I am more familiar >with it than any other language. > >Later, I ported the program to C which netted me a dramatic performance >increase: 15 minute processing times dropped to around a minute, while >CPU usage during the processing dropped from 100% to about 30%. Certainly... but what does "perl" stand for? 2 answers: Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister... or Practical Extraction and Report Language The strong points of perl are its strong array & list processing capabilities and the file management commands. The former are where Perl gets it's speed, and the latter, while prolly slower than C, are much easier to code to do file manipulation. Sure, if a proggie needed 20 lines of C versus 20 lines of perl, sure C's gonna win. However, if your proggie relies heavily on perl's associative arrays, it'll be tough to program in C, let along program *more efficiently* in C... >This isn't to disparage PERL at all. I like PERL. There are some things >other languages are better suited for, though. Of course. Perl (for me) is best for that "quick & dirty" program. Get it done, and fast, and move on. Tho I use it more often than C, C certainly does have its advantages. ObCC: IMNSHO, Basic09 has more...... Neener, Neener... ;^> Off to DreamyLand, Roger "Merch" Merchberger ===== Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- zmerch(a)30below.com SysAdmin - Iceberg Computers ===== Merch's Wild Wisdom of the Moment: ===== for (1..15) { print "Merry Christmas\n"; } (from perl.1 man page, version 4.)

27 years, 6 months

2
1
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formatting gunk [Re: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00]

by pctech＠davidbowie.com

I never got so many nasty messages as this, and for what because I forgot a setting???Last i checked i was just human, but you never know i might be a system engineer and that would make me impervious to mistakes or something. Again i am sorry!!!!! Brian -----Original Message----- From: Joseph S. Barrera III <joebar(a)microsoft.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 10:01 PM Subject: Re: formatting gunk [Re: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00] >>Erm, are you speaking mailer as in mail *client* or mail *server*. If mail >>client, there should be a setting that states "Never send HTML." > >Mailer client. A pre-pre-release version of Outlook Express 5. > >There is such a setting, but it gets ignored (apparently) when replying to >an HTML message. > >Feel free to keep beating this dead horse. I'm sure everyone else on this >list cares. A lot. > >- Joe > >

27 years, 6 months

1
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Computers for children

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> This'll probably offend many. (followed by a description of a circa 1991 powerhouse system) Well, it has been shown that it's not any more challenging to learn UNIX than Windows than DOS than MS BASIC 2.0 if it's the first exposure to computers. I think that if it can be helped, a person's first exposure should be as encouraging of good computing habits as possible. This means not windows, and preferrably not macintosh. Just like many intelligent people like to say that a child should learn to do manual calculations before using a calculator, same with this. A child should get a proper introduction to computers. No child needs to be stuck with stupid paintbrush programs for four years before graduating to doom. I agree with a C-64, though that's not really to great either. I recommend either a UNIX/Linux system, because that will allow learning about networks and so on, or a machine like a PDP-8 or an Altair that would encourage really low-level tinkering. I hope no one here makes the decision to raise a Microserf!

27 years, 6 months

15
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formatting gunk [Re: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00]

by joebar＠microsoft.com

Sorry. I do have plain text set, but sometimes the mailer thinks it knows better than I do how my mail should be sent. Excuse me while I send off some nasty internal email about this issue (again). - Joe

27 years, 6 months

2
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Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00

by pctech＠davidbowie.com

You gotta go see this i cant believe it $8500.00

27 years, 6 months

5
5
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micropolis 1355

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi, ---------- > From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: micropolis 1355 > Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 4:50 PM > > > > > Hi all, > > > > i got here a micropolis 1355 drive with my pdp, but the disc only spins up, > > and after few seconds down again. It happens again and again forever. like > > a jojo :-(( > > the power supply is ok. > > any ideas ? > > Yes... This is the most common failure with the 1300 series. The head > sticks to the rubber bumber inside the HDA and can't move to find the > home track. Thus the drive spins down. > > The other cure is to open up the HDA and free the head manually. If you > do this in reasonably clean conditions (not necessarily a proper clean > room) then you should be OK. I've done that, but now it spins up, and after appr. 1 minute spins down again and spins up, .... Dead ? thanks, emanuel

27 years, 6 months

3
3
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Journalism student looking for people with old computer collections

by mbg＠world.std.com

She's looking for people in the Ottowa area -- contact her directly - - - - - I'm a journalism student working on my final project before graduation: a documentary. I'm looking into the world of old computers as a possible subject. I'm specifically interested in meeting anyone who has a collection, or one very special old computer. Anyone interested in showing off their peices of computer history, please reply to this message. Sally Goldberg Journalism IV Carleton University -- Sally Goldberg 4th Year Journalism, Carleton University ch989(a)freenet.carleton.ca sgolber(a)chat.carleton.ca - - - - -

27 years, 6 months

1
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Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00

by joebar＠microsoft.com

>I went, I saw, I don't beleive it either. When I was looking at it there >were ZERO bids, I wonder why. That's strange... I entered a bid of $12500.00 about half an hour ago. Damn, I hate it when eBay drops my bids like that. - Joe

27 years, 6 months

1
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Questions on today's acquisitions

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>::Texas Instruments Compact Computer 40. This is a lot like the TRS-80 >::PC-4 in appearance, but a bit bigger. It has BASIC in ROM and a >::connector for cartridges. Is there anything actually useful for this? >::THe keyboards too small to do any actual word processing. > >Got a picture? You can see a picture of one (not mine) at <http://pw1.netcom.com/~bcostin/cc_ticc40.htm>. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

27 years, 6 months

1
0
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Slight OT| Ebay anti fraud measures

by wpe101＠banet.net

Cnet.com's e-commerce area currently has an article about new anti-fraud measures Ebay plans to implement. Will

27 years, 6 months

1
0
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Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00

by joebar＠microsoft.com

> From: PCTech > Sorry about the HTML! I've been messing with the system and forgot to put it back on plain text. You're still sending HTML. And when I reply to an HTML message, my mailer defaults to HTML. Sigh. If you want to debug turning off HTML, you can send mail to me and I'll let you know when you have it turned off. - Joe

27 years, 6 months

1
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Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00

by pctech＠davidbowie.com

Sorry about the HTML! I've been messing with the system and forgot to put it back on plain text. -----Original Message----- From: Joseph S. Barrera III <joebar(a)microsoft.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 5:29 PM Subject: Re: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 Granted, but it's a much more *mundane* rip-off. ----- Original Message ----- From: PCTech To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 Even at $85.00 thats a rip off. I have one that i would consider in mint condition with all the parts manuals and original box I got it for $12.95.They had that Osborne 1 on there for $5000.00 and i just got one for free.If these people dont want the stuff let the folks who want it to restore it or whatever HAVE IT. -----Original Message----- From: Joseph S. Barrera III <joebar(a)microsoft.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 4:25 PM Subject: Re: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 I'm confident that's a typo (probably meant $85). I've sent mail to the seller. ----- Original Message ----- From: PCTech To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 3:18 PM Subject: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 You gotta go see this i cant believe it $8500.00

27 years, 6 months

1
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Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00

by joebar＠microsoft.com

I'm confident that's a typo (probably meant $85). I've sent mail to the seller. ----- Original Message ----- From: PCTech To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 3:18 PM Subject: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 You gotta go see this i cant believe it $8500.00

27 years, 6 months

3
2
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Merced - and the ol' Unix story (was Re: OT, but info needed: RAM uprade)

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> silly assumptions about the machine (MS-DOS software often assumes that > the floppy drive is A: and the hard disk is C: - and refuses to let you > change this!). Or that misdetect the hardware I have (my enhanced CGA In fact, I've always found the limitations of DOS and PCs curious. Does anyone know why: *They refuse to boot from anything but A: or C: *DOS FDISK refuses to create more than 1 primary partition *DOS can't find an ATAPI cd-rom without a driver, even though it's an IDE device *Why we are limited to 2 floppy drives in DOS

27 years, 6 months

2
1
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Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00

by joebar＠microsoft.com

Granted, but it's a much more *mundane* rip-off. ----- Original Message ----- From: PCTech To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 Even at $85.00 thats a rip off. I have one that i would consider in mint condition with all the parts manuals and original box I got it for $12.95.They had that Osborne 1 on there for $5000.00 and i just got one for free.If these people dont want the stuff let the folks who want it to restore it or whatever HAVE IT. -----Original Message----- From: Joseph S. Barrera III <joebar(a)microsoft.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 4:25 PM Subject: Re: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 I'm confident that's a typo (probably meant $85). I've sent mail to the seller. ----- Original Message ----- From: PCTech To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 3:18 PM Subject: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 You gotta go see this i cant believe it $8500.00

27 years, 6 months

1
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Computers for children (soldering)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:13 AM 1/15/99 -0500, you wrote: >Well, in grades 6-8 I was playing with exolosives. My friend and I >were interested in rockets, but we couldn't afford the Estes kits. [...] >a couple of burns, so did my partner, we were lucky because we didn't >always follow the rules that well -- making rocket fuel out of sugar When I was a kid (back before I learned that detectives didn't always escape to catch the bad guys like in the Hardy Boys) I had a book about a texas P.I. named (iirc) J.J.Armes. He was ironically named because as a boy he lost both hands while playing with dynamite. While I definitely understand the benefits of first-hand experience, I don't think I'd want any kids I know to have eyesight like mine just so they can learn for themselves. Part of the value of intelligence is that past experiences can be shared. Your 8-year-old doesn't need to get a soldering iron scar -- you can show her yours, and hopefully, that will be good enough for her. btw, something I find amusing is the idea that some folks have here that if it ain't the way it was done when they were kids, then by gummit, it just ain't no good. In some cases, that may very well be true. You won't find a vehicle available on the market today that can compare with my 40 year old Land Rover. But on the other hand, it's not stock either. It's got GPS, onboard laptop, wireless internet connection, dual batteries, chevy engine, overdrive, etc. Similarly, there's nothing wrong with books, but to say that's the only way to learn to read is like saying that newsletters should be hand-typed and reproduced on (what was it?) spiritusumdruckers! That guy on TV that builds things with only homemade tools is interesting, but I don't see too many contractors working that way. >(But I nowadays know enough first principals to get or make many of >the raw materials we used to buy at the drugstore, potassium nitrate >and several of its chemical cousins being among the main things our Why does this frighten me, Ward? 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 6 months

2
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Classic Home Console Computers to Trade/Sell/Buy

by markr＠play.com

Hi Everyone, I'm new to this list. I've been collecting classic home console computers for about two years now and have some items to trade and some things I'm looking for (either trade or buy). You can check out my collection on my website at http://www.markrandall.com. Regards, Mark Randall Play Incorporated ====================== Classic Computers To Trade: ====================== Apple IIGS (full system with monitor/printer) Compaq Portable (original) IBM PC Jr. KayPro II KayPro IV Macintosh 128 (original) Radio Shack Color Computer Texas Instruments 99/4A ================================= Computers I'm Looking to Buy / Trade For: (Console Home Computers Only) ================================= Acorn BBC Micro Acorn Electron Amstrad CPC 6128 Amstrad CPC 664 Atari 65XE Atari 520ST Camputers Lynx Canon V-20 MSX Dragon 32 EACA Colour Genie EACA Video Genie 3003 (AKA System-80 / PMC 80) Exidy Sorcerer Franklin ACE 1200 Interact Model One Jupiter ACE Mattel Aquarius Memotek MTX 500/512 (or RS128) Oric 1 Oric Atmos Panasonic JR-200U Personal Micro Computer PMC 81 Phillips Videopac Salora Fellow Sharp MZ800 (MZ821) Sinclair QL Sinclair Spectrum Sinclair Spectrum + Sinclair Spectrum +2 / +2A / +3 SpectraVideo SVI 328 Sony HitBit Sord M5 Timex Sinclair 1500 Timex Sinclair 2068 Toshiba HX-10 Toshiba T100 Video Technology Laser Compact XT Video Technology VZ200 =============================== Computers Currently In My Collection (Pictures at http://www.markrandall.com) =============================== Amiga 500 Amiga 600 Amiga 1200 Amstrad 464 CPC Atari 400 Atari 800 Atari 600XL Atari 800XL Atari 1200XL Atari 130XE Atari 1040 ST Apple II Apple IIc Commodore 16 Commodore Plus/4 Commodore 64 Commodore 128 Commodore VIC 20 Laser 128 Radio Shack Color Computer Radio Shack Micro Color Computer (MC-10) Radio Shack Color Computer II (low rise keyboard) Radio Shack Color Computer II (high rise keyboard) Radio Shack Color Computer III Radio Shack Model 1 Sinclair ZX80 Sinclair ZX81 Tano Dragon 64 Texas Instruments 99/4A (gray/silver) Texas Instruments 99/4A (beige) Timex Sinclair 1000

27 years, 6 months

3
2
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Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00

by pctech＠davidbowie.com

Even at $85.00 thats a rip off. I have one that i would consider in mint condition with all the parts manuals and original box I got it for $12.95.They had that Osborne 1 on there for $5000.00 and i just got one for free.If these people dont want the stuff let the folks who want it to restore it or whatever HAVE IT. -----Original Message----- From: Joseph S. Barrera III <joebar(a)microsoft.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 4:25 PM Subject: Re: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 I'm confident that's a typo (probably meant $85). I've sent mail to the seller. ----- Original Message ----- From: PCTech To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 3:18 PM Subject: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 You gotta go see this i cant believe it $8500.00

27 years, 6 months

1
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Questions on today's acquisitions

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

Made a few purchases today, and have questions on them all: HP 150 with an HP 9133 expansion chassis. Anybody know what kind of keyboard this takes? It has a 6 prong telephone style connector. Texas Instruments Compact Computer 40. This is a lot like the TRS-80 PC-4 in appearance, but a bit bigger. It has BASIC in ROM and a connector for cartridges. Is there anything actually useful for this? THe keyboards too small to do any actual word processing. MPP-1150 Parallel Printer Interface by Supra Corporation. This has a parallel connector on the one end and a strange 13 pin connector which looks something like this: _______ |_______| /_______\ on the other end. Does anybody know what computer this goes to? And lastly, I have a single IC in a bag labeled "printer". The chip says "NEC RI8739-I35 D2332C 374". Does anybody know what this is? Anybody want it? Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

27 years, 6 months

4
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Questions on today's acquisitions

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> Texas Instruments Compact Computer 40. This is a lot like the TRS-80 > PC-4 in appearance, but a bit bigger. It has BASIC in ROM and a > connector for cartridges. Is there anything actually useful for this? > THe keyboards too small to do any actual word processing. I have one of these too. TI supposedly made a thermal printer, an RS-232 interace, and a 70KB tape drive, which would plug in to the six-pin BERG connector on the back, next to the power jack. I use it as a programmable scientific calculator.

27 years, 6 months

1
0
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biofeedback (was: Computers for children (soldering))

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:49 PM 1/14/99 -0700, you wrote: >> ObCC: I seem to recall somebody producing a biofeedback device for the > >Ooo... now THERE would be a cool thing to get my hands on... anyone know >anything about these or have one gathering dust? There was also one for the 8-bit ataris and (iirc) TRS-80's (Cocos?). --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 6 months

1
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Which comes first?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

I was talking wiht another programmer recently and we considered the question of whether science drives science fiction, or vice-versa. I think that while it probably goes both ways, to some extent, the real pathway is: Science Fiction --> Research Labs --> Consumer Electronics --> Science Fiction. An example that comes to mind is a story I read (can't remember what or who, but perhaps Hogan?) wherein a character sat down and unrolled the screen of his powerbook 9999. I just read (Microtimes?) that someone has come up with a flexible LCD screen which may be used at some point in such a device. I'm not sure what this has to do with classic computers, but I decided to post it anyway. Lot less off-topic than some stuff lately. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 6 months

1
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Direct Neuro Coupling (was: Computers for children (soldering))

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:10 PM 1/14/99 -0600, you wrote: >I guarantee that some time in the future, an alternative pathway will be: > computer =electrical impulse=> brain > >and you won't be able to tell the difference. Check out James Hogan's Bug Park (not the first book to use the idea, just the most recent I've read, and one of my two favorite authors.) Obcc: Hogan used to be a salesrep(?) for DEC and his books include fairly realistic computers and such, and kinda obviously DEC. (And, iirc, Apple II's in earlier books?) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 6 months

1
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OT? On Programming (was: Re: Computers for children)

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> This is definitely off-topic (who was that said I was single-minded?) but > for a fine example of bletcherousness, try the source to the pine mailer > (here also known as pain, or Pain In Neck Email). Find the 70K source file > that handles the main mail stuff, and try 'grep goto' - and watch three or > four screenfulls scroll by. All in one function (the 70K file is almost > all one function). Besides for this example, what do you feel is wrong with PINE? What do you prefer? I would like to know since I'm an inexperienced Linux user, and this is on-topic since PINE is over 10 years old.

27 years, 6 months

1
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OT? On Programming (was: Re: Computers for children)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 16, 3:05, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > Remember, C has a goto statement, although I don't think in my nearly 10 > > years of C programming I've ever used it, although on certain rare > > occasions it seemed the easy way out to a sticky coding problem. I think I've used it once -- and then removed it again. > Perhaps it's my own biases here (coming with 9 years of solid C coding) > but if you have more than one conditional test in an `if' or `while' > statment, you may be doing something wrong. Also, if you're so deeply > nested that you need a `goto' to get out of trouble, then again, you may be > doing something wrong. If you are nested about four levels deep in a > function, you may be doing something wrong. Don't be afraid to use lots of > functions, each doing one thing and one thing only. This applies to any > language really. This is definitely off-topic (who was that said I was single-minded?) but for a fine example of bletcherousness, try the source to the pine mailer (here also known as pain, or Pain In Neck Email). Find the 70K source file that handles the main mail stuff, and try 'grep goto' - and watch three or four screenfulls scroll by. All in one function (the 70K file is almost all one function). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 6 months

1
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PS/2 Mouse drivers

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

Does anyone here know where I can get drivers for using a PS/2 mouse with DOS programs like a normal serial mouse? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Max Eskin | kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor

27 years, 6 months

1
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Computers for children (soldering)

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> Nowadays, of course, it's difficult to > get many of the books or raw materials we used back in the Sixties. Actually, I have a small packet on how to build a 'sugar rocket', which I ordered for something like $20 a few years ago. I never built anything, but sometime, I ought to try. The same company also has a full-blown book on making rocket engines.

27 years, 6 months

1
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Stupid CP/M question

by drbilling＠ucdavis.edu

At 08:03 PM 1/15/99 +1, you wrote: > ... >> The first hard disk was made by IBM around 1956, and I assume it didn't >> take them much longer to write a DOS for it, but I don't know when they >> did or what it was called. > >Didn't they already use the term DOS ? The first commercially available IBM disk system was the IBM 305 RAMAC, but I believe the disk was just a peripheral device like a tape drive, not a system disk like we view it today. There certainly was no operating system stored on the disk and I doubt they even stored a program on the disk. It was pretty small electronically although it was physically huge, and incredibly slow because it only had one read/write head that had to be moved >from disk platter to disk platter. Since all IBM computers of the era, the 700's and 7000's were punch card fed machines, the programs were stored on punched cards and loaded each time they were to be run. Tape drives held intermediate results and input and output data, but not programs. At some point the the 7000 series life I believe there was a primitive "Tape Operating System", or TOS, developed so that once a program was debugged, the compiled binary version could be stored on tape, and a punch card "IPL" program could read that tape, load the program and then the machine would continue on just as if it had read the program from punched cards. After the 305 RAMAC was designed, a disk drive that I believe was called the 2305 was developed and it was hooked to the 7000 series machines. At some time around 1964 IBM coupled a 2305 to a 7044 which had a Direct Couple interface to a 7094 and used the 7044 to stage and control program loading on the 7094. A primitive "DOS" was developed called IBSYS, but all it did was que programs and data on the disk to be run on the 7094, one program at a time. This greatly minimized operator setup time and kept the very expensive 7094 humming. I don't think it was until the delivery of the S/360, in the 1968 time frame, that IBM had an operating system that they called DOS, but maybe there is an IBM expert in the group that could comment. -- db =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Dean Billing Phone: 530-752-5956 UC Davis FAX: 530-752-6363 IT-CR EMAIL: drbilling(a)ucdavis.edu One Shields Way Davis, CA 95616

27 years, 6 months

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paper -> HTML (and The First PC)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:49 AM 12/30/98 -0600, you wrote: > 1) do a color scan to grab images > 2) clean up images > 3) resize based on guess at a good size and res for web pages Don't think you can do much about these steps. I usually shoot for 320x240 pixels for web images -- on most monitors that's about 4" by 3" or so. It used to be (not sure if this is still true) that the default width for netscape on the mac gave you 400 pixels across; I believe on the PC it was 480? (I'll have to dig up that article again.) Also, that's a manageable size for downloads. Anyway, on a 640x480 screen, you lose some width for scroll bars and all; plus you need a border/margin... Sure, you can design your web pages for 800x600, if you don't care that most people won't be able to see it all at once. > 4) scan again as B/W line art > 5) OCR > 6) clean up OCR > 7) create HTML combining OCR'd text and images > >I don't much like PDF for web docs, so an HTML solution would be best. It >looks like the "pro" version of Xerox's OCR software might automate the >task somewhat. Any recommendations? Well, your main issue is getting the text into machine-readable format. My current belief is the best way (especially for lower quality originals) is to read them into a word processor using dragon dictate or similar. Once you've got a text file, there are several options to get them HTML'ized, including things like MS Word, and HTML editors. (I prefer doing it manually.) Depending on what you're doing, a CGI program that reads/formats text files, inserting images as necessary, might be the way to go. (See http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/index2.htm) for an example.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 6 months

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Stupid CP/M question

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<While I realize that it would not have been possible to make <their graphics part of the standard OS for a PDP-11, I <was led to believe that the PR0 350/380 had access to <their bit mapped screen displays. While doing such <manipulations was likely discouraged, is that a true POS did have a color and somewhat graphical display (menus on color screen) that was far from being graphics like most describe. Also the Graphical part was really not inherent to the basic OS, IE: no mouse or other object linking or support. The PRO350 also was contemporary to the PC XT making it a mid life PDP-11 based system. While -11s were used for graphics most of the serious work really required specialized hardware and programming support not generally available at the time. <Also, I understand that the first RT-11 was released about <1973. >When was the first CP/M released? 1974 (late) and was based loosely on Tops10, RT-11 and OS/8 (DEC Command line styles). > And the first DOS? Before 1970! Dos for PC was 1981ish. TRSdos was '78ish, NS* dos was late '76. DOS used to be a generic as well for "disk operating system". Allison

27 years, 6 months

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Stupid CP/M question

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<As I recall, some of original Star War's movie graphics were done on a <PDP11. I don't think so. They used masks and other film tricks. someone else can comment. Though the -11 had graphics. It was more that any graphics were not supported by the OS and the hardware to do that was likely as big as the machine itself and not anywhere near real time. Graphics need lots of ram and lots of disk neither of which where common then nor cheap. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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selling a blank floppy disk

by eric＠brouhaha.com

For my very first eBay auction, I managed to sell a single blank floppy disk for $22.00: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=51510929 Of course, it wasn't your average, run-of-the-mill diskette; it was a classic, or I wouldn't be talking about it here. :-) Happy New Year! Eric [If I hear one more person joking about partying tonight like it's 1999, I think I may go postal.]

27 years, 6 months

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TI99: Re: SCSI devices

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I was going under the assumption, probably a false one, that all <"parallel" ports that were able to talk to a printer w/ a centronics <connector, conformed to a standard, and that a parallel zip drive <needed nothing above and beyond that to work. Of course figuring out how <to talk to the drive is another story as well. Severely untrue. PCs use a simple port with little to no hardware handshaking, however many other use hardware hand shaking so there are few if any readable lines for data return. Few non pc system implement a bidirection or EPP port and that is not require to do basic centronics interface. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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Dapple computer

by Marion.Bates＠Dartmouth.EDU

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27 years, 6 months

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Almost OT: How can that be?

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>> Oh, and when I called it an "interpreter," that's a misnomer. It may look, >> walk, talk, and smell like an interpreter, but it's actually a JIT compiler >> in disguise... that's why it's so darned fast in comparison to an interpreter. > > Actually, it compiles to an internal byte code that can be interpreted > faster than parsing text, much like Forth or even Java. In my experience, very few interpreters actually parse text in real time. Every BASIC I've used AFAIK reduces keywords to byte codes at the time of entry, and some actually encode numbers etc. at the same time. Notable exception: I think REXX parses text in real time, or did when I used it under VM/CMS. Philip.

27 years, 6 months

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Computers for children

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 11:37 PM 1/14/99 -0800, Sam Ismail wrote: > >Remember, C has a goto statement, although I don't think in my nearly 10 >years of C programming I've ever used it, although on certain rare >occasions it seemed the easy way out to a sticky coding problem. > [...] but C really suffers from a lack of >a general error trapping mechanism that one can invoke to break out of >loops as required. Sometimes I think goto's are the answer but I can >never find an appropriate way to implement it. I use "goto" in C on a regular and consistent basis for error exceptions: USHORT firstFunction( void ) { USHORT lerr; if ((lerr=secondFunction()) != TE_NOERROR) { goto out; } out: return lerr; } The benefit is that all functions propogate an error code, any function can fail, and all functions clean up after themselves after their "out" label. - John

27 years, 6 months

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Computers for children

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hi Tony and all, At 10:44 PM 1/14/99 +0000, you wrote: >I would strongly disagree with that, at least in hardware. I've recently >been looking at some discrete-transistor logic circuits and the >creativity that went into their design (IMHO) exceeds anything that I've >seen done with modern 'black-box' chips. For example, I've seen a >keyboard encoder (8*8 matrix of keys to 6 bit binary + strobes + ...) in >about 20 transistors and as many diodes. Much, much more elegant than >throwing a microcontroller at it. > Yes, for example the Popular Electronics keyboard in ~1974 by Don Lancaster and Southwest Technical Products used a few inverters (RTL) and transistors. 3 transistors sensed which of 8 columns a keyswitch was pressed, and these 3 transistors produced 3 of the ASCII output bits. The 8 row ouyputs produced 3 other bits. Much easier to "fix" than the MOS encoder chip, if that chip was programmed for a custom matrix, such as the Heath H19 terminal. -Dave

27 years, 6 months

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Dapple computer

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi, I was digging thru the junk ^H^H^H^H er, ah, treasures at my favorite scrap dealers a few days ago and found what looked like an Apple IIe except it was marked "Dapple (something) IIe". I've never heard of a Dapple computer before. Is there anyone that collects Apple clones and wants it? Joe

27 years, 6 months

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power supply for Zenith supersport sx laptop

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

I have this Zenith supersport sx laptop (386, black and white screen i think) but no power supply.. The label on teh bottom of the unit states that it wants 16.5 volts, 2 amps... The power connector is one of those small round plugs, and it has a DC noted next to the plug. Does anyone know where I could find a compatible power supply? -Lawrence LeMay lemay(a)cs.umn.edu

27 years, 6 months

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Old ISA Riser card on a Pentium?

by gareth.knight2＠which.net

Kirk Davis >Hey, don't forget that $100 Atari Belt buckle (only one at >that price!!!) :-) Perhaps you would be interested in a once in a lifetime offer of an Amiga CD32 umbrella (never used), or a chocolate tea pot, or... Anyway, does anyone have experience with Riser ISA cards. I have one salvaged from a Viglen 25MHz 486 and want to connect it to a Pentium 2. The Riser card has 6 ISA ports.

27 years, 6 months

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Computer paint jobs (was Re: SOL feeding frenzy?)

by Watzman＠ibm.net

This may or may not be a description of your situation, but when I worked at Heath/Zenith, we bought "Gold" floppy disk drives directly from the manufacturers of the drives (Shugart, Tandon, etc.) that were painted gold for use as duplicators in producing the commercially sold software (operating systems, languages and applications). These were hand-calibrated drives with essentially perfect alignment. Not saying that this is what you have, but it is possible. Barry Watzman ---------- From: Bill Sudbrink [SMTP:bill@chipware.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 10:39 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: Computer paint jobs (was Re: SOL feeding frenzy?) In one of the Ohio Scientific C2's I have, the face plate of one of the 8 inch floppies has been painted gold! The rest of the unit was classic tan/brown and the guy I got it from had no idea why.

27 years, 6 months

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classic computer stuff in Scientific American

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Lawrence Walker" <lwalker(a)mail.interlog.com> wrote: > I have that edition in my collection. I have 2 other S.A.s > that have micro themes. The Nov. 65 issue, one of the articles is > by Hao Wang , and the Sept 66 which is all computer related > articles And I think Scientific American re-published the September 1966 issue as a book, "Information". -Frank McConnell

27 years, 6 months

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hello

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

Hi. I've just joined your mailing list. Currently I'm working on getting a Cromemco Z2 system with dual 8" DSDD drives setup. I have cp/m 2.2 and CDOS. Unfortunately, I have no docs, except a cp/m 2.2 manual I downloaded from the web. If anyone has a similar system, and can make a cp/m 3.0 8" floppy, i'd appreciate it. My plans are to attempt to rewire a Teac 5.25" floppy drive to make it appear to be a DSDD 8" floppy drive. I have several Terak computers in need of serious work. These were computers that would break down frequently back when they were in service back in tehe 80's, so they break down after being 'repaired' (the contacts seem to go flakey, both on teh boards and mainly on the socketed ram chips). If anyone has any technical information on the Terak floppy controller, or on the shugart 800 floppy drives in the Terak, i'd like to have a copy. preferrably I would want to setup my 5.25 floppy drive so it can be used on either computer system, but the Terak uses a 40 pin ribbon cable, skipping pins 1-10 on the shugart drive. I'm curious as to which connectors on teh interface cable are actually necessary for the Terak floppy controller to operate properly. -Lawrence LeMay lemay(a)cs.umn.edu

27 years, 6 months

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Classic Home Console Computers to Trade/Sell/Buy

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> Hi Everyone, > > I'm new to this list. I've been collecting classic home console computers > for about two years now and have some items to trade and some things I'm > looking for (either trade or buy). You can check out my collection on my > website at http://www.markrandall.com. Hi Mark. Afraid I haven't time to look at your website just now, but your list looks impressive. Since you're new here, I feel I should tell you: one thing you must remember on this list, if you are offering anything for sale or trade, YOU MUST SAY WHERE YOU ARE. Looking at your list of your collection and your list of wanted stuff suggests you are not in the UK (as I am), but probably somewhere in the US. But more than that I can't tell, and it may be important! Philip.

27 years, 6 months

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Osborne 01 for only $5000.00

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:27 PM 1/13/99 -0500, you wrote: >went for 2.7 Million, with an addition 305k being paid in commission >by the purchaser... A far cry from 7 Mil... For values of x, where x = my bank balance, 3mil * x = 7mil * x. It's all the same to me. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 6 months

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Altair kits??

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 10:36 AM 1/7/99 -0500, you wrote: >>QUESTION - to any of the folks out there who >>put these kits together originally... >>Is this the way you received them from MITS? >>With the front panel and/or the power supply >>pre-wired and assembled? I never built one from a kit but what I have been told MANY times is that the front panel and PS were customer assembled and the front panel was an absolute BITCH to build! Seems there was a mess of wires running from all those front panel swiches to the motherboard and it was hell to get them all connected correctly and to work in among all of them. Joe

27 years, 6 months

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