- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by museum＠techniche.com

check this out: http://www.anchordesk.com/a/adt0118nk/2997 Doesn't do much about $8500 commodore's, but I could see it being an issue for collectors, especially in light of the copyright article that I mentioned last night. There are obvious issues about reselling last year's copyrighted software, especially if you're not careful to comply with the legal requirements (like you destroy all of your copies if you transfer ownership). But what about 15-20 year software? I guess legally the requirements are the same depending on what the original licensing contract agreement stated. Jon

27 years, 6 months

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older operating systems and...

by dogas＠leading.net

Anyone remember/use (read as: have a spare copy for...) of Wendin's OS Toolkit. A pc release circa 88 that gave you some building blocks to roll your own os? Thanksly - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 6 months

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Available: Internal Memory Expansion for Pro-3xx

by djenner＠halcyon.com

I have a couple of internal memory expansion boards for the DEC Pro-350. They have 128KB of memory (64Kbit chips). These work in 350s and probably in 380s, too. You can desolder the 64Kbit chips and put (sockets with) 256Kbit chips on them, solder in two jumpers, and they become 512KB memory expansion boards (which work for sure on the 380 and maybe on the 350). (Note: This board does not plug into the expansion connectors, but does plug directly in to the mother board.) If you want one let me know. They're free, but if I get more requests than I have boards, I'll give preference to anyone with something to trade. Dave

27 years, 6 months

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No subject

by museum＠techniche.com

There was a very interesting article that appearred in the NY times last week about publishing copyrighted materials on the web. I thought it was apropos given the list members that have volunteered to publish old manuals and such on their web sites. The focus of the ariticle is not on technical specs but there are analogies even though the issues are not identical. As we know sometimes technical materials are not released under the guise of limiting the copyright holders liability. Or releasing the documents somehow reduces a competitive advantage. Or the fear that release somehow implies a warranty or guarantee of support. The article argues against a recent change to retroactively extend the period of copyright. And is being brought by a collaboration of folks many who publish previously copyrighted, and now public domain material on the web. It is recent news, but it affect documentation that clearly falls into our area of interest. I have not included it here because it is a little long. If anyone wants to see it contact me and I'll forward you a copy in e-mail (I don't have a site to post it on, anyone want to volunteer?). Jon

27 years, 6 months

3
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Disasters and Recovery

by foxvideo＠wincom.net

At 07:57 PM 1/17/1999 -0800, you wrote: >On Sun, 17 Jan 1999, Doug wrote: > >> > Paper will last longer than anything we've been discussing so far (save >> >> Where did you get that idea? Paper will disolve in just about any >> solvent, including water, and is subject to tearing. Again, if we're >> talking about preservation in controlled environments, a CD-ROM kicks >> paper's butt. > >What are you talking about? The whole aversion to using CD's was the fact >that they have a theoretical shelf life of only 50-100 years. Like I >said, the Dead Sea scrolls lasted more than two millenia without much >thought going into how to preserve them. And here you are talking about >going thru the trouble of filling a chamber with inert gasses to promote >preservation. Unless your line of thinking is to fill the chamber with >water just to give paper a challenge. > >Paper has passed the test of time. You can go into antique book shops and >find volumes hundreds of years old that are still very readable and very >intact. > >CDs, on the other hand, have only been with us a couple decades. > >> What makes some of today's technology fragile is simply the density, or >> equivalenty, the lack of redundancy in a given area. A plain old EPROM >> should be fine for 100 years if you include 100 copies of the information >> within it. > >100 copies on what? 100 other EPROMs? On CD? Or encoded on paper? > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Always being hassled by the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 01/15/99] > > I still have people trying (without much success) to get video transferred off their 1970 vintage 1/2 inch reels. On the other hand I have several Edison cylinders from the early 1900's that are still playable, although not exactly "hi-fi". Cheers Charlie Fox Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo(a)wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo

27 years, 6 months

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Disasters and Recovery

by foxvideo＠wincom.net

At 04:18 PM 1/17/1999 -0800, you wrote: >On Sun, 17 Jan 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > >> > >How about we start sending all our precious data into space via radio >waves towards some big celestial body (like one of Jupiter's moons) so >that in X years it will bounce back and we can then retrieve it >(hopefully intact thanks to some keen error correction protocol). Of >course you'd have to send it on such a trajectory that both the >transmission and bounced data stream are not obscured by some other object >(like that pesky moon!) > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Always being hassled by the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 01/15/99] > > The picture that comes to mind is all this data heading out into space to be recovered by some advanced alien intellegence at a far galaxy, who then have a look at Windows and decide Earth is populated by a very uncivilized race and forthwith declare war. (Think I could sell this as a pilot for a program to replace the X-Files?) Cheers Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo(a)wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo

27 years, 6 months

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Fanware

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 07:15 PM 1/15/99 +1, you wrote: >> > BTW: Are there some people collecting merchandise/advertizeing >> > gimicks of the computer age ? [...] >Well, not exactly what I asked (but glad about every saved flyer). >My question was more about all the other stuff - T-Shirts, umbrellas, >tie needls, watches, keyholder, cups, ..... Well... There are advertising collectibles, and I'm sure they go after computer stuff too (the ones that go for newer stuff.) My brother (the ElderPutz) collects such things (one of his hobbies is going to conventions/trade shows to get all the freebies) and after I got into the business decided he wanted to be too (not being good at anything else either) so he fancies himself a techie and thus has a lot of high-tech ad stuff. He's now a tech writer and has finally been able to hold down a job for more than 18months. Anyway, if you want to, you can contact the jerk at <psinasohn(a)siebel.com>. (If it sounds like I don't like him, a big part of the reason is that he's decided that Oakland is too far away from San Francisco for him to visit his dad. For referenec, The VCF in Santa Clara is three times as far away >from SF. Can't even be bothered to call. (And those that were at VCF got a chance to meet my dad -- not the most spry fellow, but a nice guy.)) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 6 months

3
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Disasters and Recovery

by roblwill＠usaor.net

-----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, January 17, 1999 8:00 PM Subject: Re: Disasters and Recovery >On Sun, 17 Jan 1999, Doug wrote: > >> > Paper will last longer than anything we've been discussing so far (save >> >> Where did you get that idea? Paper will disolve in just about any >> solvent, including water, and is subject to tearing. Again, if we're >> talking about preservation in controlled environments, a CD-ROM kicks >> paper's butt. > >What are you talking about? The whole aversion to using CD's was the fact >that they have a theoretical shelf life of only 50-100 years. Like I >said, the Dead Sea scrolls lasted more than two millenia without much >thought going into how to preserve them. And here you are talking about >going thru the trouble of filling a chamber with inert gasses to promote >preservation. Unless your line of thinking is to fill the chamber with >water just to give paper a challenge. > But - The dead sea scrolls were on parchment, not paper, weren't they? >Paper has passed the test of time. You can go into antique book shops and >find volumes hundreds of years old that are still very readable and very >intact. > >CDs, on the other hand, have only been with us a couple decades. > >> What makes some of today's technology fragile is simply the density, or >> equivalenty, the lack of redundancy in a given area. A plain old EPROM >> should be fine for 100 years if you include 100 copies of the information >> within it. > >100 copies on what? 100 other EPROMs? On CD? Or encoded on paper? > Or was that 100 copies of the same information in the single EPROM? -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 6 months

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TK50Z-GA EPROM

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1104 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990116/00d482cd/at…

27 years, 6 months

6
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RT-11 Help

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I dont know RT-11 (yet.) and am looking forward to the experience. But >before that happens the seller wants to purge some sensitive employee >files on the system. Can someone tell me how to tell him to 1) move >through the directory structure, and 2) how to delete specific files ( >some that span partitions 0 - du4 according to him ), and... On RT-11, as with many OSes, deletion of a file simply updates the directory in some way to indicate that the file is deleted. In some OSes, it might mean removal of the directory entry which pointed to the data on disk (or the list of pointers to retrieve the info). In some, it may be to mark the directory entry as a deleted file. In the case of RT-11, it marks the disk space taken up by the file to be 'free'. But until another file is written over that data, it remains, and can be retrieved. What they can do, however, is to delete all those files which they don't want anyone to have access to, and then to 'SQUEEZE' the disk volume. The squeeze process is similar to what Windoze does when it defragments a disk volume, only RT-11 files are not fragmented - they exist as contiguous files. But the files are all moved to the beginning of the disk (low block numbers) with all the free space consolidated to the end of the disk (higher block numbers). This will result in at least those deleted files which existed between others being overwritten with files being moved. The only problem might be a deleted file at the end of the volume (or if the quantity of deleted files are sufficient that the moved files don't adequately cover the deleted ones). It should be possible to write a very short program which will determine the last block used on the (squeezed) volume, and to write null blocks to all disk blocks from there to the end of the volume. Finally, RT-11 files cannot span RT-11 disk partitions. An RT-11 file can only exist in the partition in which it is defined. It is possible, however, for a user application to make use of the system library routines which allow full access to an MSCP disk -- in which case doing the squeeze won't help. What you may want to suggest to him is to 1) Delete all sensitive files from all disk partitions 2) Squeeze all disk partitions. 3) backup all disk partitions (on a file, not device, basis) 4) FORMAT all disk partitions (RT-11 Format doesn't really do a low-level format except for specific devices, and MSCP disks are not one that it will do -- with the exception of RX33 diskettes) 5) Restore the backed-up files to all partitions. 6) Release the hardware to you... :-) >Where can I find a good source of RT-11 info? Not counting the documentation which can be purchased for it... right here is a good place... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 6 months

3
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Teac FD-55FV-13-U

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi, Does anyone have the specs for a Teac FD-55FV-13-U 5 1/4" floppy drive or the URL of a website with specs for Floppy drives? Joe

27 years, 6 months

2
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VAX-11 book

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I have hard back copy of VAX-11 Assembly Language Programming written by Sara Baase and published by Prentice Hall. If anyone wants it, E-mail me directly. Joe

27 years, 6 months

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Apricot F10

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 16, 10:42, George Rachor wrote: > Subject: Apricot F10 > Spotted a curious find last night... > > It was labeled Apricot F10. > > It was narrow and had a minidisk slot in the front. In the back it had > what looked like a rca jack (Video?), a parallel port (Centronics) a nine > pin(serial) and something like a DB25. > > I suspect this is an expansion unit for the apricot line as I saw no > obvious keyboard port unless it was the DB-25... I don't think it's an expansion unit; I'm pretty sure it's a complete computer, except that it's not complete in this case :-) It sounds very like an F1, so perhaps the connections are similar. On the back of an F1, there's a 25-pin D serial port, a 9-pin D colour monitor connector, an RCA jack mono (composite video) monitor socket, centronics parallel port on the bottom, and a pair of power connectors higher up. The main power socket is an IEC style, and there's a 12V power input for use with an Apricot mono monitor as well. The keyboard connection on an F1 is by an infrared link. There's an IR sensor on the front, and a fibre optic connector as well, for situations where the sensor picks up too much interference. Perhaps the F10 also has an unusual keyboard connection on the front? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 6 months

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Disasters and Recovery

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Possibly. I still don't like to endorse a company that built a computer that the display exploded in my face (sort of - it shattered and started leaking LCD juice everywhere-during use). It was new. The model line only lasted about 6 months. The best bet would probably include a computer in a tower case, with a flat-panel display, eliminating the hazards of the pressure in a CRT. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Russ Blakeman <rhblake(a)bigfoot.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, January 17, 1999 3:36 PM Subject: Re: Disasters and Recovery >While gateways, Dells, GRiDs and others would be good, I have a 4 yr old Toshi >that's never needed more than a battery and it's seen some rough use. It may be >that you've gotten a blemish or a used one that was treated badly before you got >it. >

27 years, 6 months

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Disasters and Recovery

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Just a though: Build a computer with 2 CD-ROMs, a hard disk, and a floppy (and whatever else you decide to throw in there - maybe even a DVD). Configure one of the CD-ROMS as the primary master, and the HD as the primary slave. Write the OS/boot files to a CD/R disk, and have it boot of the CD-ROM (provided that the CD-ROM drive will still spin up. And surely, a CD-ROM drive would be much easier to repair than hard disk, and no alignment would be necessary, thus eliminating another problem. Another solution may be to deep-freeze the whole mess, and put it into "suspended animation". I'm not sure how it would work with magnetic media or bearings / lubricants, but it does wonders with rubber. My grandmother had a rubber band from 1956 (around that time) in her freezer holding a cover on a fruitcake (no joke). Last year she finally decided to trash the fruitcake. She let it thaw (to keep the container), and when the rubber band had defrosted, it was as pliable and stretchy as if it had been brand new (to a point). Of course, you would need to leave specific instructions on how to defrost the system, leaving it in a climate-controlled room, slowly raising the temperature degree-by degree, as to not have any disasters, such as the CRT imploding from sudden temp changes. Better yet, throw in a flat-panel LCD display. Near the end of 1999, they should be a bit more affordable. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 6 months

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list manager

by dhansen＠zebra.net

what is the email address of whoever maintains this list? david

27 years, 6 months

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OT? On Programming (was: Re: Computers for children)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 17, 8:12, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Subject: Re: OT? On Programming (was: Re: Computers for children) > ::> I'd hate to hear what you have to say about Elm, which is my favourite > ::> mailer. :-) > :: > ::Mine too. But it badly needs to be updated to support metamail and mime > ::message creation from within elm and support stuff like pgp. > > Actually, it does. PL25 ME39 (which comes in the Debian dist, ask me for the > tarball) supports in-process attachments and PGP. And PL25, which is > commonly available, supports MIME through metamail. I've had almost zero exposure to elm, so I'm not in much of a position to comment -- not that that always stops me :-) I'd guess elm (which is what pine was originally based on) is smaller, sleeker, and simpler. Not a bad thing... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 6 months

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Disasters and Recovery

by roblwill＠usaor.net

If you want something to last 100 years, DONT't leave a Toshiba. I've got one, and it won't even last one year without breaking. I've had it for three years, and it's been in the repair shop 10 times, all because of product defects. The best would probably be one of the new Gateway laptops (can't remember the model). It also has a magnesium housing. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> Ya know - the people at GRiD seem to have had a good idea about the magnesium casing...It just didn't catch on quick enough. -----Original Message----- From: Doug <doug(a)blinkenlights.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, January 17, 1999 1:49 PM Subject: Re: Disasters and Recovery >On Sun, 17 Jan 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > >> One of the reasons I want to have a completely spec'd Pentium class >> computer is to create an archive that will survive a reasonable amount of >> time (100 years in a time capsule). > >Don't leave them a clunky desktop box, leave them something like a sleek >Toshiba Portege 3010 (3lb notebook in magnesium case) along with a solar >cell so they can fire the thing up when they pull it out of the capsule. > >Remove all batteries, of course. > >-- Doug > >

27 years, 6 months

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thoughts on UNIX and older systems

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi, ---------- > From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: thoughts on UNIX and older systems > Date: Sunday, January 17, 1999 9:18 AM > > Sure, they're not going > to be secure enough for defense work, Most systems aren't. Not "only" the ones stated before. cheers, emu

27 years, 6 months

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Heath H19

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

At 04:57 PM 1/16/99 +0000, Tony wrote: >[H19] > >> Yes, I found the manual and there is both an encoder AND a ROM. Seems sort >> of redundant, can only guess why. Many years ago the encoder chip died in >> mine, and I first tried the generic version of the chip, most likely a GI > >Ouch... Something to watch for if mine ever dies... Or the generic replacement was bad, and the Heath one was good, also the generic part? The 2 bad parts are long gone, so I cannot retest them. > >> part. It didn't work, ended up ordering a replacement from Heathkit which >> did work. > >Didn't work at all, or gave you the wrong characters? If the latter, then >maybe reprogramming the ROM would sort it out. The first (original) had no strobe output, so appeared dead. The generic one I don't remember now, but even so, had no provision to program EPROM's then. Later a built a single board Z-80 computer that could copy, edit (HEX) and program 2716's, 2732's and 2764's. It used the H19 as its terminal. Am trying to remember what I used to program its monitor EPROM..."you need to program a EPROM with routines to get your EPROM programmer to run..." I think I found someone with a Cromemco system that could. -Dave

27 years, 6 months

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victor 9000 (also called Sirius) (fwd)

by foxnhare＠jps.net

> From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: victor 9000 (also called Sirius) (fwd) > > > > Here's someone in Belgium wanting to get rid of a Victor 9000. It was an > > early 80's 8086-based machine that came out before the PC but eventually > > was PC-compatible. It was actually a much better machine than the PC and > > had many interesting innovations, but we all know the story. > > Strange machine. It's what you get if you take the CPU from a PC (8088), > add Mac-style variable-speed drives (but 5.25") with a Commodore-like > controller, and then stick on an Apricot-like video system. Keep in mind this was one of Chuck Peddle's creations (along with the 6502 and Commodore PET). > > Interesting features include the sound system (a synchronous serial chip > driving a CODEC chip) which also has a sound input connector, the 2 3-bit > DACs to control monitor brightness and contrast in software, the user > port (a complete 6522 less one pin wired to a 50 pin header inside), the > centronics printer port that can be turned into a GPIB port in software, > the drives/controller, etc. > Sounds cool, maybe one day I'll get one. :)

27 years, 6 months

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OT help request: Quantum XP34300 not working

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

OT HELP REQUEST: I've got a Quantum XP34300 hard drive that is giving me grief. It is getting power, it spins up, but it is not being recognized by the SCSI adaptor. I've switched it to a different system with a different adaptor and the same thing happens. On the system its connected to now with a BusLogic adaptor, I switched on the Send Start option and it kicked the drive into operation, but only once. And when the OS loaded (I'm just running DOS) the drives in the drive table showed up as F: and G: but when I accessed F: there were no files (there should be a ton) and when I tried to access G: the computer froze. After that, the drive stopped responding altogether again. Since I have two of these drives my next thought is to swap the logic board on the good one with the flaky one as I really need the data off the flaky one. Any ideas? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99]

27 years, 6 months

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UNIX License plate

by bwit＠ticnet.com

On Saturday, January 16, 1999 3:29 PM, Chuck McManis [SMTP:cmcmanis@freegate.com] wrote: > At 06:36 AM 1/16/99 -0500, you wrote: > >ObCC: Around 1980 or so, I knew somebody with a license plate that said > >"Unix: Live Free or Die". Was this issued by Bell Labs? And who has one > >they'd like to sell? > > The New Hampshire vanity plate (state motto "Live Free or Die") UNIX was > registered to Bill Shannon who worked at Sun (still does actually). Some > vendor did some fake plates for one of the Uniforum conferences but I don't > know if Bill got any royalties :-) I think the vendor that issued these fake plates was DEC. Bob

27 years, 6 months

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ISP mania -- can't change editor

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 17, 5:10, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > I've tried editing my pinerc repeatedly, it always seems to be reset > the next time I log in. One of the features of pine is that there can be several configuration files, including a system-wide one that contains settings which a user can override in ~/.pinerc, and a separate system-wide one which ~/.pinerc *won't* override. The intent is that a sysadmin can set defaults in the first (usually /usr/local/lib/pine.conf), and set fixed values in the second (usually /usr/local/lib/pine.conf.fixed) -- the sorts of things that users shouldn't meddle with, like the name of the server, the mail domain, the operating-dir (which restricts the part of the file structure users can access) or whether they're allowed to forge cancel messages. It sounds like your ISP has a somewhat overzealous sysadmin; perhaps they just copied every setting into pine.conf.fixed. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 6 months

2
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Reading age of 3 (was: Re: Computers for children)

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> Well, my parents were told by the local school _not_ to teach me to read, > or to handle numbers as 'you won't do it the right way'. Fortunately they > ignored this (it was too late anyway - I was already reading), and taught > me the good old-fashioned way. Guess what? I never had any problems > learning things, unlike some kids.... AAAAugh! You had a narrow escape. The arrogance of educators talking about "the right way" to teach a child, when theories as to what this is seem to change every three years, is amazing. I recall in 1975 (I think - I was only about 8 at the time) we knew a retired teacher who sometimes did supply work for a local school. She was given a remedial class to look after, and started teaching them by traditional methods. Result, in a few weeks they were ahead of the main class. Our retired friend quite reasonably asked why the school couldn't adopt such methods as a matter of course, and apparently they were "not allowed to". She could get away with it since she was retired and not a permanent employee, or something. I heard a story similar to yours from a friend (Tony - did you ever meet ACAW1?) at university (last heard of doing a PhD in the history of German). He told me that it is a commonly held belief in Germany that there is no point in teaching a child to read until it is 6 years old - the age of starting school in Germany - since children younger than that lack the necessary development (unspecified). Apparently his German friends were always amazed to discover that his parents, wanting him out of mischief at age {nearly 4}, and unable to get him a school place until {nearly 5}, taught him to read. Any comments from our Geman readers? How prevalent is this myth? Two shorter comments to finish. I too have heard that playing music to very small children (age <2) helps them develop intelligence. The music has to be of the sort that takes some thought to listen to, of course. Mozart, Beethoven etc. are good choices, as are some of the better-thought-out pop styles, but minimal music or thud-thud-thud pop music are probably not. (Sorry, as a mainly classical listener, I don't know the correct terms for the pop music styles) And finally a saying attributed to the Jesuit order: Give us a child till he's 6 years old and we have him for life. Philip.

27 years, 6 months

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OT: humans are the most advanced form of life- Yeah Right!!

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I know this is OT but it's too good to miss! Joe > >They have finally been released! For anyone not familiar with the Darwin >Award: it's an annual honor given to the person who provided the universal >human gene pool the biggest service by getting killed in the most >extraordinarily stupid way. As always, competition this year has been keen >again. Some candidates appear to have trained their whole lives for this >event! > >1998 DARWIN AWARD CANDIDATES: > 1. In September in Detroit, a 41-year-old man got stuck and drowned in >two feet of water after squeezing head first through an 18-inch-wide sewer >grate to retrieve his car keys. > 2. In October, a 49-year-old San Francisco stockbroker, who "totally >zoned when he ran," according to his wife, accidentally jogged off a >200-foot-high cliff on his daily run. > 3. Buxton, NC: A man died on a beach when an 8-foot-deep hole he had >dug into the sand caved in as he sat inside it. Beachgoers said Daniel >Jones, 21, dug the hole for fun, or protection from the wind, and had been >sitting in a beach chair at the bottom Thursday afternoon when it collapsed, >burying him beneath 5 feet of sand. People on the beach on the outer banks, >used their hands and shovels, trying to claw their way to Jones, a resident >of Woodbridge, VA, but could not reach him. It took rescue workers using >heavy equipment almost an hour to free him while about 200 people looked on. >Jones was pronounced dead at a hospital. > 4. In February, Santiago Alvarado, 24, was killed in Lompoc, CA, as he >fell face-first through the ceiling of a bicycle shop he was burglarizing. >Death was caused when the long flashlight he had placed in his mouth (to >keep his hands free) rammed into the base of his skull as he hit the floor. > 5. According to police in Dahlonega, GA, ROTC cadet Nick Berrena, 20, >was stabbed to death in January by fellow cadet Jeffrey Hoffman, 23, who was >trying to prove that a knife could not penetrate the flakvest Berrena was >wearing. > 6. Sylvester Briddell, Jr., 26, was killed in February in Selbyville, >DE, as he won a bet with friends who said he would not put a revolver loaded >with four bullets into his mouth and pull the trigger. > 7. In February, according to police in Windsor, Ontario, Daniel Kolta, >27, and Randy Taylor, 33, died in a head-on collision, thus earning a tie in >the game of chicken they were playing with their snowmobiles. > 8. In September, a 7-year-old boy fell off a 100-foot-high bluff near >Ozark, AR, after he lost his grip swinging on a cross that marked the spot >where another person had fallen to his death in 1990. > >1998 DARWIN AWARD HONORABLE MENTIONS: > 1. In Guthrie, OK, in October, Jason Heck tried to kill a millipede >with a shot from his 22-caliber rifle, but the bullet ricocheted off a rock >near the hole and hit pal Antonio Martinez in the head, fracturing his >skull. > 2. In Elyria, OH, in October, Martyn Eskins, attempting to clean out >cobwebs in his basement, declined to use a broom in favor of a propane torch >and caused a fire that burned the first and second floors of his house. > 3. Paul Stiller, 47, was hospitalized in Andover Township, NJ, in >September, and his wife Bonnie was also injured, by a quarter-stick of >dynamite that blew up in their car. While driving around at 2 AM, the bored >couple lit the dynamite and tried to toss it out the window to see what >would happen, but they apparently failed to notice that the window was >closed. > 4. Taking "Amateur Night" Too Far: In Betulia, Colombia, an annual >festival in November includes five days of amateur bullfighting. This year >no bull was killed, but dozens of matadors were injured including one gored >in the head and one Bobbittized. Said one participant, "It's just one bull >against [a town of] a thousand morons." > >SOME MORE ALSO RANS: > 1. Four people were injured in a string of related bizarre accidents. >Sherry Moeller was admitted with a head wound caused by flying masonry, Tim >Vegas was diagnosed with a mild case of whiplash and contusions on his >chest, arms and face, Bryan Corcoran suffered torn gum tissue, and Pamela >Klesick's first two fingers of her right hand had been bitten off. Moeller >had just dropped her husband off for his first day of work and, in addition >to a good-bye kiss, she flashed her breasts at him. "I'm still not sure why >I did it," she said later "I was really close to the car, so I didn't think >anyone would see. Besides, it couldn't have been for more than two >seconds." However, cab driver Vegas did see and lost control of his cab, >running over the curb and into the corner of the Johnson Medical Building. >Inside, Klesick, a dental technician,was cleaning Corcoran's teeth. The >crash of the cab against the building made her jump, tearing Corcoran's gums >with a cleaning pick. In shock, he bit down, severing two fingers from >Klesick's hand. Moeller's wound was caused by a falling piece of the >medical building. > 2. Taos, NM: A woman went to a poison control center after eating >three birth-control vaginal inserts. Her English was so bad she had to draw >a picture describing how she believed she had poisoned herself. A translator >arrived shortly thereafter and confirmed the doctors' suspicions. Marie >Valishnokov thought the inserts were some kind of candy or gum, being unable >to read the foil wrappers. After the third one, she realized something was >wrong when her throat and mouth began to fill with a sour-tasting foam. She >ran for the Poison Control Center, only a few blocks away where doctors were >able to flush the foam from her mouth, throat and stomach with no ill >effects. > 3. La Grange, GA: Attorney Antonio Mendoza was released from a trauma >center after having a cell phone removed from his rectum. "My dog drags the >thing all over the house," he said later. "He must have dragged it into the >shower. I slipped on the tile, tripped against the dog and sat down right >on the thing." The extraction took more than three hours due to the fact >that the cover to Mr. Mendoza's phone had opened during insertion. "He was >a real trooper during the entire episode," said Dr. Dennis Crobe. "Tony >just cracked jokes and really seemed to be enjoying himself. Three times >during the extraction his phone rang and each time, he made jokes about it >that just had us rolling on the floor. By the time we finished, we really >did expect to find an answering machine in there." > 4. Tacoma, WA: Kerry Bingham, had been drinking with several friends >when one of them said they knew a person who had bungee-jumped from the >Tacoma Narrows Bridge in the middle of traffic. The conversation grew more >heated and at least 10 men trooped along the walkway of the bridge at 4:30 >am. Upon arrival at the midpoint of the bridge they discovered that no one >had brought the bungee rope. Bingham, who had continued drinking, >volunteered and pointed out that a coil of lineman's cable lay nearby. One >end of the cable was secured around Bingham's leg and the other end was tied >to the bridge. His fall lasted 40 feet before the cable tightened and tore >his foot off at the ankle. Miraculously, he survived his fall into the icy >river water and was rescued by two nearby fishermen. "All I can say," said >Bingham, "is that God was watching out for me on that night. There's just >no other explanation for it." Bingham's foot was never located. > 5. Bremerton, WA: Christopher Coulter and his wife, Emily, were >engaging in bondage games when Christopher suggested spreading peanut butter >on his genitals and letting Rudy, their Irish Setter, lick them clean. >Sadly, Rudy lost control and began tearing at Christopher's penis and >testicles. Rudy refused to obey commands and a panicked Emily threw a >half-gallon bottle of perfume at the dog. The bottle broke, covering the >dog and Christopher with perfume. Startled, Rudy leaped back, tearing away >the penis. While trying to get her unconscious husband in the car to take >him to the hospital, Emily fell twice, injuring her wrist and ankle. >Christopher's penis was in a styrofoam ice cooler. "Chris is just plain >lucky," said the surgeon who spent eight hours reattaching the penis. >"Believe it or not, the perfume turned out to be very fortuitous. The high >alcohol content, which must have been excruciatingly painful, helped >sterilize the wound. Also, aside from it being removed, the damage caused >by the dog's teeth to the penis per se is minimal. It's really a very >stringy piece of flesh. Mr. Coulter stands an excellent chance of regaining >the use of his limb because of this." Washington Animal Control has no plans >to seize Rudy. > >AND THE WINNER: >Paderborn, Germany: Overzealous zookeeper, Friedrich Riesfeldt, fed his >constipated elephant, Stefan, 22 doses of animal laxative and more than a >bushel of berries, figs and prunes before the plugged-up pachyderm finally >let fly and suffocated the keeper under 200 pounds of poop! Investigators >say ill-fated Friedrich, 46, was attempting to give the ailing elephant an >olive-oil enema when the relieved beast unloaded on him like a dump truck >full of mud. "The sheer force of the elephant's unexpected defecation >knocked Mr. Riesfeldt to the ground, where he struck his head on a rock and >lay unconscious as the elephant continued to evacuate his bowels on top of >him," said flabbergasted Paderborn police detective Erik Dern. "With no one >there to help him, he lay under all that dung for at least an hour before a >watchman came along, and during that time he suffocated. It seems to be >just one of those freak accidents that happen." > >

27 years, 6 months

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thoughts on UNIX and older systems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<None. I haven't seen an NT box up for months at a time without <a reboot due to something trivial like a network change that can be done <with a Unix box without a reboot. Well I have. Current up time for the three NT 3.51 servers I live with at work is over 6months. We do however have things like memory leaks from Cold Fusion's OBDC driver that forces the running of a batch job every night to shut that down and restart the one peice. Often the OS gets blamed for cranky apps. <> We're switching to Linux at work only because there's more software <> available, and we have more knowledge available for Linux than BSD. < <Sounds reasonable... I've been using FreeBSD with 6+ months <uptime on web servers (only rebooted because of equipment moves in the lab) This thread is interesting to me (though OT for Classiccmp) as I plan to introduce a FreeBSD(or linux, slakware, redhat or debian) and not haveing much unix expereince it's an interest to me. Personally a VMS node suits my liking. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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thoughts on UNIX and older systems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> > FreeBSD = Cathedral development <> > Linux = Bazaar development <> > <> > Read "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" by Eric Raymond to understand what <> > mean. Organized with scheduled releases and maintainers vs ad hoc team with frequent builds. is this what were talking about? Also Freebsd is linked to the BSD school of thought VS other more radical factions. From the playing I've done the differences are insignificant and either works assuming it supports the hardware. What's more significant is that linux has Attracted third party vendors producing products that run in that environment. <The analogy was only intended to indicate that DOS survived and CP/M <basically did not. To a point that is true but CP/M really didn't die. It mutated and DOS was the result. Also while dos was developing we had MPM, DRdos and CCP/M to name a few. To date DOS As far as I know does not have the CCPM multitasking. If there is an analogy CPM supported more different platforms than DOS. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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OT? On Programming (was: Re: Computers for children)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 15, 18:00, Max Eskin wrote: > Besides for this example, what do you feel is wrong with PINE? What do you > prefer? I would like to know since I'm an inexperienced Linux user, and > this is on-topic since PINE is over 10 years old. Mostly that it has a very broken idea of how to handle dates; it insists on parsing the date in the "From" line in order to validate it, and gets upset if it can't. When things go wrong, it has a habit of believing that two messages are in fact one (the one with the unparsable date being concatenated to the preceeding one). I also fail to see why pine, alone amongst the dozens(?) of mail programs around, has to have a control message at the top of a mailbox: a message which confuses anyone who subsequently uses another mailer; which gets moved to a different place if another mailer re-sorts the mailbox (making the control message useless to pine, which inserts another copy and actually displays the old one); and which typically gets removed by any POP3 server that accesses the mailbox for a remote user (so pine has to replace it again). It has a crazy insistence on having certain terminal capabilities in order to work... and refuses to run if they are not detected, despite the fact that it actually contains code to get round many of the things it claims to need (such as clear-to-end-of-line). There are also some bugs to do with clearing lines on terminals with a minimal set of capabilities -- notably when going backwards and forwards from the setup and addressbook menus. It's possible to get pine into a state where the display is unusable until you quit, reset the display (usually scrolling a screenful is enough, though) and restarting. It doesn't let you add headers other than a small set of pre-defined ones, which are sometimes necessary -- though beginners might not need to do that. IMNSHO, a mail program and a news program are two different things -- and pine's news capabilities are pretty poor. And, of course, it's BIG. Compare the size of a pine executable to the size of other MUAs on the same platform. It *does* have some nice features -- but for me, both as a user and a sysadmin, they're far outweighed by the shortcomings. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 6 months

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OT? On Programming (was: Re: Computers for children)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<This is definitely off-topic (who was that said I was single-minded?) but <for a fine example of bletcherousness, try the source to the pine mailer <(here also known as pain, or Pain In Neck Email). Find the 70K source fil that proves any tool is a hammer. I've written good code using BASIC but for the most part the early BASICs were weak in string and file handling so they were not the first choice for a lot of things. Also the early BASICs didn't have local variables and recursive routines were a PITA as a result. Add to that most were interpreted (slow) so fast IO was out of the question. I forced me to go to PASCAL (via UCSD p-SYSTEM) and that was a real eye opener as I started looking at the PASCAL code and writing assembler to look like that. C was interesting as it was efficient for machine level things but I still find it criptic. Along the way there was also algol, PL/M(PL/i) and some stabs at FOCAL. Forth(and PostScript) was amoung the stack languages and I like them for some things. There were the hybrid basic C-basic, E-basic and S-basic, they offered some fo the features of Pcascal and C in the familiar Basic form. But when I'm working with 8085 or Z80s assembler just usually happens. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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thoughts on UNIX and older systems

by meo＠netads.com

All this noise about the younger OSes (Linux, FreeBSD) got me thinking. I vaccilate between amused and annoyed over the bickering between the Linux and FreeBSD contingents. That kind of thing is part of the reason Windoze owns as much of the matket as it does. I realize nobody could predict the way it would take off, but when MS first started to own the desktop, the *users* of UNIX should have started cooperating. But instead, they went along with the vendor factions, and Windoze won. Yeah, I know, it was somewhat inevitable. But I don't think it would have been quite as bad as it is. So learn from history. Feel free to argue in private, but in public, I'd push the overall UNIX-like OS, with just a recommendation. Of course, it's a good feeling to even have the option. Because 10 - 12 years ago, what were your UNIX options, if you weren't the government or a university? 1) You could buy expensive hardware that ran a UNIX variant. 2) You bought a workstation from Sun or Apollo - still not cheap. 3) If you were lucky, you got one of the few Cromemcos or Perkin-Elmer desktops, that ran UNIX. But they weren't much less expensive than the Sun, Apollo, etc workstations. (Fortune's desktops were in the workstation price range.) 4) If you were really lucky, you found a good deal on a used PDP from someone with a UNIX license who forgot to wipe the disks or tapes - but then you were illegal. 5) You bought Minix. Minix was cheap, and you got source, but it was really meant to be a teaching tool. It was well done, but extremely limited. (Nevertheless, Tanenbaum's _Operating Systems Design and Implementation_ is still an excellent book.) 6) If you were *really* lucky, you got a good deal on a working workstation. Just out of curiosity, does anyone have a Perkin-Elmer desktop running Linux? IIRC, it was pretty much a straight port of whatever was current from bell Labs at the time - or maybe an older version. -Miles

27 years, 6 months

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Anyone have an extra IBM 5155 laying around??

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Well, I remember the teacher telling me that he found the computer in his basement, and just brought it to the school to show the kids how the computers used to be when you had to program them, and you didn't just stick in a disk and turn it on. Apparently, I was the only one (well, there was one other person) that was interested in it. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, January 16, 1999 5:32 PM Subject: Re: Anyone have an extra IBM 5155 laying around?? >Right... That makes sense.... > >I still wonder if a cheap clone floppy controller or drive (whichever was >needed) wouldn't have been cheaper/easier than putting a 5150 board in >there. I assume that 5150 came out of a PC, so why didn't he use the >controller or drive from that machine. A full-height drive kludged on >externally would have worked and been a lot nicer than a cassette-based >machine. > >Of course fixing the original parts probably wouldn't have been too hard >either, but then a lot of people seem to be frightened by a simple >schematic... > >-tony > >

27 years, 6 months

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Todays Finds

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Hi! Want to sell one of the Convertibles? It doesn't matter that there's no power supply, or even if it works or not. I collect old laptops, and the Convertible is one of the ones that I don't have. ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, January 16, 1999 2:03 PM Subject: Todays Finds >I got a call on the radio from another ham checking out garage sales, and he >told me about a Unix machine. When I went over, the machine turned out to >be an IBM RT with docs and disks! There was also a Compucorp 675 that I was >told was a dedicated word processor (no docs.) The guy wanted $15 for the >RT and was giving away the Compucorp so I gave him $20 *after* I told him I >have so many machines I don't usually buy them, and we had a nice talk. He >will see if there are any docs for it and he will be talking to others that >have been in the business since the late '70s and early '80s. Went to the >club station where I was given a Mac IIvx (OT? as I have no idea what era it >is from.) Another guy had just visited the local scrap yard and gave me 3 >IBM Convertibles w/ no power supplies. All in all, not a bad day! > >Anyone know anything about the Compucorp 675? >

27 years, 6 months

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Questions on today's acquisitions

by gregorym＠cadvision.com

At 06:23 PM 1/15/99 -0500, you wrote: >> Texas Instruments Compact Computer 40. This is a lot like the TRS-80 >> PC-4 in appearance, but a bit bigger. It has BASIC in ROM and a >> connector for cartridges. Is there anything actually useful for this? >> THe keyboards too small to do any actual word processing. > >I have one of these too. TI supposedly made a thermal printer, an RS-232 >interace, and a 70KB tape drive, which would plug in to the six-pin BERG >connector on the back, next to the power jack. I use it as a programmable >scientific calculator. > The thermal printer and RS-232 interface were both produced, but not in large numbers. They're hard to find. A few pieces of cartidge software (or as TI liked to call it, "Solid State Software") were produced, AFAIK, but also not in large numbers. I've never seen any in six years of looking. The tape drive, called a "Wafertape" drive, was pretty much vapourware. There were a few prototype units sold, but it was never in full production, because TI couldn't get the bugs worked out. The box for my CC-40 has a sticker attached that says "Tape drive not available". The lack of secondary storage pretty much doomed the CC-40 as a computer; it never caught on. I think there was an article in the book "The Best of 99'er Magazine" on how to build a cable to connect a CC-40 to a TI-99/4A. I also used mine as a programmable calculator. Cheers. Mark. > >

27 years, 6 months

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Oops......

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Oops... That last message wasn't supposed to be posted to the list. Sorry... -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 6 months

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Anyone have an extra IBM 5155 laying around??

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Well, I think the only card that was in it was the video card (HD and floppy controllers had been removed). The first slot (closest to the side of the case) on the XT and PC motherboards do match up. I think for the cassette port, he just drilled a hole in the case, or cut something. I'm not too sure how he did it, because it's been 5 years since I've seen it. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, January 16, 1999 3:49 PM Subject: Re: Anyone have an extra IBM 5155 laying around?? > >Ouch... That takes a lot of metal-bashing to (a) make a hole for the >cassette connector) and (b) get the 5 slots on the PC motherboard to >attempt to line up with suitable holes in the case. No thanks... It would >have been a lot less work to fix that floppy.... > >-tony > >

27 years, 6 months

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thoughts on UNIX and older systems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> 5) You bought Minix. Minix was cheap, and you got source, but <> it was really meant to be a teaching tool. It was well done, <> but extremely limited. (Nevertheless, Tanenbaum's _Operating <> Systems Design and Implementation_ is still an excellent book.) < <Minix 1.3 was very limited. V1.5 was better. 2.0 is better still and MINIX-vmd is supposed to be hot. I finally picked up the book/cd at Boarders for $53. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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thoughts on UNIX and older systems

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> I don't know where you heard that but its nonsense. > > FreeBSD = Cathedral development > Linux = Bazaar development > > Read "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" by Eric Raymond to understand what I > mean. Oh, so you're saying that Linux will defeat FreeBSD solely because of its possibly superior development model. So, where does the DOS\CP/M comparison come from?

27 years, 6 months

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OS2 2.00.1

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

Does anyone want/need OS2 2.00.1 ? I have quite a few sets of these I set aside in a box many years ago. Also, if anyone needs any of the stuff that came with the IBM Valuepoint 33Mhz DX systems (user guides, etc) I have plenty of sets of those too. Most of this stuff is still in shrinkwrap. -Lawrence LeMay lemay(a)cs.umn.edu

27 years, 6 months

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Anyone have an extra IBM 5155 laying around??

by roblwill＠usaor.net

My teacher had replaced the XT motherboard with a 5150 board when the HD and floppies quit, so that ROM BASIC could be used with the cassette port. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, January 16, 1999 9:22 AM Subject: Re: Anyone have an extra IBM 5155 laying around?? >> I'm not necessarily concerned about originally, just as long as the monitor, >> P/S, and keyboard work, and it's in fairly good condition ( I have a bunch >> of parts). I'm basically looking for it for sentimental value, since a 5155 >> was the first IBM-compatible computer that I used. It was in the elementary >> school that I went to, and neither the floppies or HD worked, so all it ran >> was ROM BASIC, and saved the programs on cassette. Since I had an old > >This bothers me. The 5155 (I have one, although not up for grabs) uses an >XT motherboard, and AFAIK it never had a cassette port. Yes, there was >ROM basic, but no way to save from it. The only way you could have used a >cassette would be if somebody had designed an expansion card that grabbed >INT15 (I think) and implemented the cassette port. If that card ever >existed, then I want one! > >There never was an official IBM hard disk, but plenty of people put a >short-length controller card in the machine together with a half-height >hard drive. > >-tony > >

27 years, 6 months

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victor 9000 (also called Sirius) (fwd)

by siconic＠jasmine.psyber.com

Here's someone in Belgium wanting to get rid of a Victor 9000. It was an early 80's 8086-based machine that came out before the PC but eventually was PC-compatible. It was actually a much better machine than the PC and had many interesting innovations, but we all know the story. Please respond to the owner directly. Reply-to: phonelinks(a)skynet.be ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:03:26 +0100 From: Fabrizio Franzi' <phonelinks(a)skynet.be> Subject: victor 9000 (also called Sirius) Hello, I wonder if anyone would anybody have an interest in a "new" Victor 9000. 256KRAM, 2 double-speed 1.2 MB 5 1/4" FDs, monochrome screen, qwerty keyboard. Used to run cp/m 86 and ms-dos 2.0. I'm in Belgium (Brussels) -- kind regards Fabrizio Franzì --------------------------------------------- e-mail: phonelinks(a)skynet.be voice: +32 2 347 2566 gsm: +32 75 474775 fax: +32 2 372 2258 or +32 2 347 2471 Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)verio.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details [Last web site update: 01/15/99]

27 years, 6 months

2
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PDP 11/34 in Belgium

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

And this one too: pdp 11/34 Monday, 02-Nov-98 15:45:05 Message: 193.74.7.181 writes: I have a complete pdp11/34 with removable hardddisks puncher reader deckpack rk05f rk05j deckpack 28 .attention its a very old one buth he is complete.it's in belgium david_evi(a)hotmail.com Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99]

27 years, 6 months

1
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TRS-80 Model 12

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Found this on a web-site: Radio Shack TRS80 model 12 brand new, sealed box Tuesday, 03-Nov-98 09:06:02 Message: 205.188.193.39 writes: Brand new, in un-opened sealed box, Radio Shack TRS80 Model 12 microcomputer for sale, also used ones available. E-mail or call to 773-935-7080 ext. 205 Attn: Darius Augustine Darius Augustine Tel: 773-935-7080 ext. 205 Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99]

27 years, 6 months

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Computers for children

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 11:37 PM 1/14/99 -0800, you wrote: >I've never seen a "BY" modifier although I wouldn't doubt that some BASIC >could have been designed with it. But are you sure you didn't mean >"STEP"? Okay, so I've been doing COBOL too long... 8^) Yes, in BASIC it's STEP. Same idea as COBOL's BY option. (In COBOL it would be PERFORM VARYING variable BY inc FROM start UNTIL variable IS GREATER THAN end (I think -- it's not a common usage of the Perform verb.)) >and while loops (I rarely use for's), but C really suffers from a lack of >a general error trapping mechanism that one can invoke to break out of >loops as required. Sometimes I think goto's are the answer but I can >never find an appropriate way to implement it. errflag := 0 /* is it := in C to assign a value? */ DO WHILE variable < end AND errflag = 0 { do stuff variable++ /* I think that increments a variable */ IF error THEN errflag := 1 ENDIF LOOP IF errflag = 1 THEN do error processing ENDIF No, I'm not a C programmer (nor do I play one on TV). --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 6 months

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Merced - and the ol' Unix story (was Re: OT, but info needed: RAM uprade)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 16, 8:22, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > Subject: Re: Merced - and the ol' Unix story (was Re: OT, but info needed > Doug wrote: > > > ObCC: Around 1980 or so, I knew somebody with a license plate that said > > "Unix: Live Free or Die". Was this issued by Bell Labs? And who has one > > they'd like to sell? > > That was DEC, when they were first plugging Ultrix. DEC may have done so, but they originally came from Armando Stettner, one of the early Unix developers, at one of the unix conferences. I don't think Ultrix goes quite as far back as 1980? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 6 months

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Kaypros and Osbornes

by joebar＠microsoft.com

Are Osbornes really that much harder to find than Kaypros? eBay currently seems awash in Kaypros for under $30... - Joe

27 years, 6 months

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Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 15, 20:37, jpero(a)cgocable.net wrote: > Subject: Re: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 > Date sent: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:35:25 -0800 > Send reply to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00 > > > Hey, that's impressive. By default my e-mail program which can handle this > > garbage displayed a blank screen. Simply put people, _PLEASE_ use plain > > text. I'm quoting the garbage so you can see the garbage you're sending. > > 34 lines of crap for 1 line of message, that's MicroSlop for you. > > > > Zane > > Now I don't waste on this and they get killed on sight unread. > > Jason D. That's exactly what I do, and I suspect that many other readers do the same. It's not even good HTML -- with all those font and colour requirements that many systems couldn't honour. Like Zane, I use a mail reader that can handle MIME, but it often fails on the bad HTML and/or screwy MIME-types that some messages contain. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 6 months

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formatting gunk [Re: Commodore 1541 on ebay for $8500.00]

by joebar＠microsoft.com

>Erm, are you speaking mailer as in mail *client* or mail *server*. If mail >client, there should be a setting that states "Never send HTML." Mailer client. A pre-pre-release version of Outlook Express 5. There is such a setting, but it gets ignored (apparently) when replying to an HTML message. Feel free to keep beating this dead horse. I'm sure everyone else on this list cares. A lot. - Joe

27 years, 6 months

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Anyone have an extra IBM 5155 laying around??

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Hi! Does anyone have, or know where I can get an IBM 5155 Portable computer? I'm not necessarily concerned about originally, just as long as the monitor, P/S, and keyboard work, and it's in fairly good condition ( I have a bunch of parts). I'm basically looking for it for sentimental value, since a 5155 was the first IBM-compatible computer that I used. It was in the elementary school that I went to, and neither the floppies or HD worked, so all it ran was ROM BASIC, and saved the programs on cassette. Since I had an old TRS-80, I was fairly familiar with BASIC, and wrote approx. a whole cassette-full of programs on the thing during study halls, free periods, etc. When I was talking to my teacher over the summer, the subject of the 5155 came up, and I ended up asking him if he would find out if the school would want to sell it. Well, the next year, I asked the teacher about it, and he said that the school told him that I could have it. The only problem was that over the summer, it had been "lost". Big surprise when they never found it. Anyway... If anyone has one that they'd like to sell/trade, please email me. I have various XT parts, a 386 full-AT motherboard (upgrade for the 5170 M/B), and an old desktop case. ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 6 months

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Heath H19, was Computers for children

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

At 06:54 PM 1/15/99 +0000, Tony wrote: >> 3 other bits. Much easier to "fix" than the MOS encoder chip, if that chip >> was programmed for a custom matrix, such as the Heath H19 terminal. > >I have the H19 schematics here (well, actually the Z90 schematics, but >AFAIK the 'terminal' part of that computer is a H19), and I'm suprised >that the encoder is custom. There's a ROM between the data outputs of the >keyboard encoder and the data lines of the terminal processor. I would >have thought that would have handled the translation for the custom matrix. > >If they did use a custom version of the encoder chip, then what on earth >is that ROM doing there? > Yes, I found the manual and there is both an encoder AND a ROM. Seems sort of redundant, can only guess why. Many years ago the encoder chip died in mine, and I first tried the generic version of the chip, most likely a GI part. It didn't work, ended up ordering a replacement from Heathkit which did work. Also found that leaving the hinged case cracked open helped with the cooling, the metal flange/heatsink on the pc board gets quite hot. Never upgraded mine to a computer- Z89 or such. Thought at the time there was a neat graphics add on for it as well. -Dave

27 years, 6 months

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