- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Ebay: Very Old IBM Model 705 Tube-type Logic Module

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Doug <doug(a)blinkenlights.com> > points 1,2,3,4,5,6... <snip> Beyond all of that this just logically dosent make sense if the intent is to make sure (just) that a computer gets a good home/is saved from the trash. If there is already an existing bid on an item, then the computer has been... *ahem* saved. And publishing an auction just because the current bidder is a non-member of this list seems a form of discrimination that says *we* know better. A service I would more appreciate Marvin, would be something like: Hey, someone *tried* to sell a system here and couldn't, here's an e-url... - Wheez: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 6 months

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Ebay notices, was re: PDP-8 on e-bay

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

OK.. I guess I'll have to appologize for starting this flame war. Of the lists that I subscribe to, this one has always impressed me by how cooperative and sharing the members are. Every single day I see members donating their time, effort, knowledge, and hardware to promote the hobby of collecting computers. Unfortunately, It's threads like this that kill the spirit of the group. In my own defense, I'd like to say: I am not a "conniving, sniviling, wheez who would probably step on my own mother to get at a cool computer". I don't think most of the other members would either. I hope anyone that does, gets exactly what they want! Secondly, I'm not just the guy with the bull horn. Just check the bidding history on the SOL and see who the first bidder was! I posted it in the group because, someone here might want it more than me. If they do, then so be it... If you check any of those listings you'll see they have really obscure terms like "computer" in the description. Now, if that's hidden in a dark corner where it'll get overlooked, then I'll eat my hat. Thirdly, there have been a number of times that I have intentionally skipped a bid when I knew that a member of this group was bidding on an item. IE: The "Ohio Scientific" thingy that Andrew Davies was looking at a couple of weeks ago. Sure I'd like to have it but, I wouldn't bid against someone that REALLY appreciates it. Fourthly, I for one am willing to share my good fortune with the other members. I'd much rather see something from my collection go to someone in this group that anywhere else. When I decide to get rid of something, you'll (group) be the first to know. Also, I don't think this set any kinda precedent. I've seen plenty of similar messages. Finally, I really do appologize. If I had realized that it would be taken so personally, I would have never posted it. Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> -----Original Message----- From: Doug [SMTP:doug@blinkenlights.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 3:34 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Ebay notices, was re: PDP-8 on e-bay On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Marvin wrote: > I understand there is more than a little competition for that stuff at some > of the bay area swap meets and perhaps that is where your philosophy comes > from. I've missed some spectacular bargains at similar swap meets, but I > also know the stuff went to good homes. When I first started collecting, I > might have had the same philosophy, but time has taught me that the real > bargains come through my contacts, not ebay. Most people who know me > realize I am not in this thing for money but rather attempting to keep as > much as I can from hitting that great dumpster in the sky. A side benefit > is helping other collectors. That's what makes your actions even more ludicrous to those of us who do buy stuff on ebay -- the guy at the swap meet with the bull horn is not there to buy or sell, he just came to advertise using his bull horn! Ebay advertises their service nationally, and they have a $10 billion market cap to draw from. I don't think they need your help. If your only concern is that every orphaned computer find a home, then I think the only right thing for you to do is to make sure that every one of the contacts >from whom you get your old computers has the name and phone number of everybody on this list just in case you're out of town when they call. You expressed concern when you found that somebody was willing to pay a higher price than a closing bid. Did you have that same concern when you paid a few dollars for an Altair or an IBM 5100? -- Doug

27 years, 6 months

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TRS-80 Model 4 for sale CHEAP ($10)

by nobody＠replay.com

My email: trs80(a)plbm.com Dual-floppy drive TRS-80 Model 4 microcomputer for sale CHEAP (only $10). NOTE!!!! THIS IS -NOT- A MODERN COMPUTER! IF YOU NEED TO ASK IF IT IS AN IBM COMPATIBLE, THIS IS *NOT* THE COMPUTER YOU WANT!!! Please see "The Catch" below. Picture available at http://www.plbm.com/trs80.jpg I just powered it on and it works fine. I have two diskettes; one boots to TRSDOS and I just ran CDRAG (Sea Dragon) off the second disk, so both drives seem to work fine, although some files on the disks don't seem to run. Notes: The little sticker on it says 16k RAM. I didn't verify this. Spare parallel centronix printer cable. Conformal dust cover included. See picture at: http://www.plbm.com/trs80.jpg THE CATCH I absolutely do -not- have time to take this to the post office or Mail Boxes Etc, and stand in line to ship it somewhere, even if you're offering to reimburse. Therefore, you need to come here and get it. I live in Costa Mesa, California (in Orange County) and you can email me at trs80(a)plbm.com to arrange a mutually-convenient pickup if you're interested. If nobody is interested, it goes to the dumpster in a few more weeks. DO *NOT* SEND EMAIL ASKING IF I CAN SHIP IT TO YOU. I WILL NOT SHIP THIS COMPUTER! I WILL DELETE ALL SUCH EMAILS WITHOUT RESPONDING!! lwalker(a)interlog.com

27 years, 6 months

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thoughts on UNIX and older systems

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

> Here's an analogy for you: > > Linux = DOS > FreeBSD = CP/M > > Therefore, Linux will come to dominate the world. So don't worry. I'm sorry, but I don't know the vital distinction between the two, and would like to find out. As I understand, Linux is somewhat less secure and less stable; but what else? And why is Linux less secure/stable?

27 years, 6 months

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IBM Thingy strikes again!

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

For anyone that cares, I just got this from IBM . > >Joe, >I talked to one of the Field Engineers tonight who know what your THING is. >Believe it or not it is a piece of test equipment that is used to diagnose >several different types of IBM equip. AND it is still used today. In fact >he said I was sitting next to 2 of them this morning when I was in the CE >office!! They are used to test devices like 3380, 3480, 3490 Disk drives. >These drives are the humongo mainframe drives ( they stand over 6' tall) >although they are very old technology. He also said that the device is used >to diagnose communication problems between remote controllers and the main >system. He also said that as a stand alone device it is pretty much >worthless....unless you want to copy diskettes...but I don't know of too >many people who need 8" diskettes copied!. He was surprised that you >"found" one. He said that it could have been left behind at a clients >location by a repair person and forgotten about.....or the CE's use to keep >them in the trunks of their cars and it could have been taken from one. I >asked him what you might be able to do with it...he said (jokingly) that one >option would be to sell it to a competitive maintenance company (like bell >Atlantic) who would want them so that they could service IBM hardware.?? >> >> I powered up the THING today. It says it's a Stand Alone Terminal >>Exorciser, PN 08309930, date 01/84. It passes the self test and brings up a >>menu that lets you select 327X Tutorial, 327X BSC, SDLC/SNA or R-LOOP. >>Selecting the R-LOOP option brings up another menu for 8775 Device or 3276 >>Device. That's as far as I can get in the menu, after that it asks for a CU >>address or will autoscan for it but of course there's nothing connected so >>it doesn't find what ever it's looking for. Do you think you can find any >>more about it? >> >> >> Joe >>

27 years, 6 months

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Disasters and Recovery

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:34 AM 1/18/99 +0000, you wrote: >What harm is gravity going to do, unless the machine falls off a shelf or >something? I read once that all solids are actually just very slow moving liquids. Apparently the floor of Ft. Knox (where a lot of gold is supposedly stored) has a tiny but significant amount of gold in it that has seeped in from the bars sitting on it. I would think that 100 years could be long enough for the drive platters to warp slightly (but enough!) or whatever else. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 6 months

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more auction silliness...

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=201894731 shows some induhvidual selling some IBM family one machine, most likely a 5150 pc with a minimum bid of $500. Gee, i wonder if he'd buy my 'rare' 5140 for that price... lol.

27 years, 6 months

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MITS Sherwood Medical S-Twelve

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I don't remember if I asked for information on this computer before. I'm looking for any documentation or history of this Sherwood Medical computer. 'A Brunswick Company' is proudly proclaimed on the front panel adjacent to where it reads Sherwood Medical S-Twelve (which oem'd this MITS Altair for blood gas analysis). The Sherwood S-Twelve has eighteen slots, a heavy duty power supply and the following boards, all made but MITS: 8800 CPU BD REV 0 4K STATIC BOARD REV-2 X4 88-2 SIO REV 0 8K PROM BD REV 0- X2 INVERTER BD 88-IS SH REV 1 88 (SIOB) SERIAL TTL REV 1 MITS MODEM BD 88-MUX REV 1 MITS A/D CONVERTER REV 0 If you have any information about MITS 8800s sold to industry as in this case, please let me know. Thanks, Marty marty@itgonline

27 years, 6 months

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Ebay notices, was re: PDP-8 on e-bay

by dogas＠leading.net

From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> >The reasons for collecting have been already discussed on this list a number >of times, but it is worthwhile trying to remember that for most of us, this >is a HOBBY done because we enjoy it. I don't know how you infered from my rant that this isn't a hobby of mine that I enjoy. I do enjoy this and have for several years *and* don't make money in this way (I do dispose of quite a bit of it though) although my intent is not to disparage the speculators out there. For some, ebay opens access to machines not otherwise available. I dont think Jacksonville Florida and *many* other locals know what a swap meet is nor do we have the likes of some of those bay area thrifts to so offhandedly dismiss ebay. And for collectors newer to the hobby ebay does provide a way to quickly backfill missing euipment. Don't get me wrong. The brainshare of this group is invaluable, there is no other resource like it. I wans't trying to flame someone into submission, just expressing my opinion. I guess if I already had an Altair or an 8, I'd probably be a little more altruistic. Naaa ;) Wheezer Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 6 months

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Help with article

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

A few days ago someone posted a message about the February issue of a magazine having an article about collecting and talked about one of the guys on this list. Anyone remember the mag's name ? Thanks John

27 years, 6 months

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Kaypros and Osbornes

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:27 PM 1/15/99 -0600, you wrote: >> Are Osbornes really that much harder to find than Kaypros? eBay currently >> seems awash in Kaypros for under $30... > >Both machines were very popular in their time and have no collector value >beyond whatever sentimental value they have for you. Well, I currently wouldn't pay for an Osborne 1 or executive, (except maybe a few dollars for a tan 1,) but I would pay for a Vixen or Encore. I would pay a bit for various Kaypros, but probably not as much as it would cost to ship one. My reasoning is that I have a lot of O1's and a few Execs, but only a KII. I think other people's reasoning is that a lot more people know about the O1 than the Kaypro, so that gets more interest/higher perceived value. Meanwhile, no one's ever heard of a Zorba, so I don't know why the two I've heard about sold for over $100. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 6 months

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RANT Re: PDP-8 on e-bay

by Marty＠itgonline.com

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: RANT Re: PDP-8 on e-bay Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 1/20/99 5:55 PM On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > their teeth" on Sun machines who will be flush with cash, it would not > suprise me in the least if you could get $10,000 for it in 5 to 7 years. > (Others might tell you that selling it for more than $50 + postage is a > crime against nature but don't listen to 'em) Ack! Don't say that! >>Listen to the reasonable people: $50 + postage is more than fair :) As usual, Sam is the voice of reason. PLEASE listen to Sam and sell me one of these. Marty Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1999Jan20.175526.1767.94090; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:55:27 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id OAA09870; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:53:05 -0800 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id OAA2 8474 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:53:00 -0800 Received: from smtp1.ncal.verio.com (smtp1.ncal.verio.com [204.247.247.82]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id OAA01 861 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:52:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell1-n1 (dastar(a)shell1.ncal.verio.com [204.247.248.254]) by smtp1.ncal.verio.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27340 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:52:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.4.05.9901201451310.12444-100000(a)shell1.ncal.verio.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:52:58 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: RANT Re: PDP-8 on e-bay In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990120143043.00af6720(a)mailhost.hq.freegate.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 6 months

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PERFEX Machine???

by sunmoon＠rmi.com

Hello! I thought this would be the best place to ask about a PERFEX machine... I am wandering what it is??? I have searched everywhere else and I found some info that says its a Computer that helps in Diagnosis of Heart problems.. ??? But this thing is not at all like the one they explain.. Any info?? Thanx Michael Sunbear(*)

27 years, 6 months

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y2k stuff

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

You might look at the Charles Babbage Institute http://www.cbi.umn.edu They have a lot of stuff and are willing to copy at $.25 per page. John G. Zabolitzky

27 years, 6 months

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WTB: Motorola MVMEbus module manuals

by cfandt＠netsync.net

I'm in search of several manuals for some Motorola MVME boards I have. Please reply if you have any available for me to purchase. MVME 236-1,2,3 (Publication number MVME 236-1 Dx ) MVME 133-1 ( " " MVME 133-1 Dx ) Support Docs: SIMVME133-1 MVME 134 ( " " MVME 134 Dx ) Support Docs: SIMVME134 and finally the Support Documentation (schematics, etc.) for an MVME147S which is publication number SIMVME147S. Thanks for your help! Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

27 years, 6 months

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Twinaxial pins needed

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

Anyone know a good source for bulk crimp pins used in the Amphenol (and other brand) twinaxial connectors used in networks? I need to get a handful for the inevitable repairs that come up at work and a few cents each for two pins and recutting the coax is better than $8 and up for each for a new connector set, just to use the pins. Thanks for any leads you might have.

27 years, 6 months

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Wirehead Prime??

by bill＠chipware.com

Does anybody know what happened to Anthony Clifton (Wirehead Prime)? I was going to buy his OSI. He hasn't replied to any of my email or posted to classiccmp since before Christmas. Bill Sudbrink

27 years, 6 months

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Classic Home Console Computers to Trade/Sell/Buy

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Hi Mark, If the Mac 128 is still available, I'm interested. I'm located in the Washington, D.C. metro area. I have a number of appliance (home computers) plus some Apples (II+, IIe's) available. I will post a list to the members of Clasiccmp of what I'm excessing sometime this month. marty(a)itgonline.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Classic Home Console Computers to Trade/Sell/Buy Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 1/15/99 7:05 AM Hi Everyone, I'm new to this list. I've been collecting classic home console computers for about two years now and have some items to trade and some things I'm looking for (either trade or buy). You can check out my collection on my website at http://www.markrandall.com. Regards, Mark Randall Play Incorporated ====================== Classic Computers To Trade: ====================== Apple IIGS (full system with monitor/printer) Compaq Portable (original) IBM PC Jr. KayPro II KayPro IV Macintosh 128 (original) Radio Shack Color Computer Texas Instruments 99/4A ================================= Computers I'm Looking to Buy / Trade For: (Console Home Computers Only) ================================= Acorn BBC Micro Acorn Electron Amstrad CPC 6128 Amstrad CPC 664 Atari 65XE Atari 520ST Camputers Lynx Canon V-20 MSX Dragon 32 EACA Colour Genie EACA Video Genie 3003 (AKA System-80 / PMC 80) Exidy Sorcerer Franklin ACE 1200 Interact Model One Jupiter ACE Mattel Aquarius Memotek MTX 500/512 (or RS128) Oric 1 Oric Atmos Panasonic JR-200U Personal Micro Computer PMC 81 Phillips Videopac Salora Fellow Sharp MZ800 (MZ821) Sinclair QL Sinclair Spectrum Sinclair Spectrum + Sinclair Spectrum +2 / +2A / +3 SpectraVideo SVI 328 Sony HitBit Sord M5 Timex Sinclair 1500 Timex Sinclair 2068 Toshiba HX-10 Toshiba T100 Video Technology Laser Compact XT Video Technology VZ200 =============================== Computers Currently In My Collection (Pictures at http://www.markrandall.com) =============================== Amiga 500 Amiga 600 Amiga 1200 Amstrad 464 CPC Atari 400 Atari 800 Atari 600XL Atari 800XL Atari 1200XL Atari 130XE Atari 1040 ST Apple II Apple IIc Commodore 16 Commodore Plus/4 Commodore 64 Commodore 128 Commodore VIC 20 Laser 128 Radio Shack Color Computer Radio Shack Micro Color Computer (MC-10) Radio Shack Color Computer II (low rise keyboard) Radio Shack Color Computer II (high rise keyboard) Radio Shack Color Computer III Radio Shack Model 1 Sinclair ZX80 Sinclair ZX81 Tano Dragon 64 Texas Instruments 99/4A (gray/silver) Texas Instruments 99/4A (beige) Timex Sinclair 1000 ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1999Jan15.070554.1767.92508; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:05:55 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id EAA10867; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:00:56 -0800 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id EAA2 3376 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:00:47 -0800 Received: from mail.calweb.com (mail.calweb.com [208.131.56.12]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id EAA06 415 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:00:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.calweb.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id EAA00119 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:00:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <000d01be407f$37c600a0$ef5dd3cf(a)markr.calweb.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:04:35 -0800 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Mark Randall" <markr(a)play.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Classic Home Console Computers to Trade/Sell/Buy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-To: <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-SMTP: helo markr from markr(a)play.com server @sac13-239.calweb.com ip 207.211.93.239 user=markr X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-8 on e-bay

by joe＠barrera.org

> Subject: PDP-8 on e-bay >Don't know what the reserve is. The same guy also has a SOL and a Rainbow for sale. I just found out... $900. :-) I actually work just down the hall from Gordon Bell... if he can't help me get it working, then probably no one can... :-) - Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 8:15 AM Subject: PDP-8 on e-bay >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=58405239 > >Don't know what the reserve is. The same guy also has a SOL and a Rainbow for sale. > >Regards, > >Steve Robertson - QA Team Leader <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> >HotOffice Technologies, Inc. <http://www.hotoffice.com> >Phone: +1.561.995.0005 x228 Fax: +1.561.995.5990 > >HotOffice - The World's First Online Virtual Office Service > >

27 years, 6 months

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OT, but info needed: RAM uprade

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Slower clock speeds. This means that you literally can have a plug in <upgrade. You could also make one with a larger micron process and more <vertical and not worry about heating, but that gets to be bone headed. A <better idea would be to learn from competitors, and start making a more <economical way of producing chips. Your way off. First off intel is the process leader. But when you require everything to be 16bits wide like memory, address latches, byte/word logic and other nifty things to get to 16bit wide the cost goes up for the system. the cost to produce the 8088 and the 8086 was nearly the same save for the 8088 was cheaper due to volumes and not technology. <But I see your point... but remember, before being used on the IBM PC the <8088 had been on the market for 3 years, and probably in OEM's hands a yea <before that. very true. I was running a 8086/8mhz Multibus based system with 512k of ram and a 5mb hard disk and 1mb 8" floppies when the IBM PC was introduced. Needless to say I was appalled at it's terminally poor performance. <>The 386? < <Lower clock speeds... kind of a all-solving solution. Not hardly. <>The 486? < <The 486 was just plain dumb. You didn't really need a 486SX at all. You <could keep on making a 386, but Intel was afraid of AMD catching up to the <(with their 40MHz 386's and all). You could have also made a 386 to go in <a 486 socket. nope. The 486 executed instruction in fewer cycles and had several features that made it faster internally for the same clock speed as a 386. <>The Pentium II? < <The Celeron was actually a pretty good idea, too good. They should have <made the 128K cache at half clock speed like in the PII. A Celeron 333 <will perform better than a PII 300 in the same system, and you can <overclock the Celeron to compete with almost all Intel processors. the celeron is a pentium! it's more integrated with the onboard cache but it's also a fixed configuration so expanding it is harder. <Well, they did have a lot of proffessionals a lot smarter than I am workin <on the problem, and I'm willing to bet they had good ideas, but may have <been shot down somewhere between 'cost' and 'competion'. Also they were trying to get the x86 into the other non PC markets. <I'll say that I don't really like it, and that we could have done much <better. MIPS, SPARC, Alpha, all better than x86, and if they had <competition like the x86 market does, then it'd be a good assumption to <guess that the cost might even be halfed and performance considerably faste The dynamics of the microprocessor market is more complex than you think. If MIPS was so good it would ahve pushed out x86. Alpha is a 64bit cpu targetted at high end systems and the MicroVAX (32bit) was already well established and faster than 386/486. <Well, I'm glad that Merced means the end to this lousy architecture. It <wasn't until this year that we began seriouly getting rid of ISA, which, <aside from going from 8 to 16 bit, hasn't changed all that much since the <days of the XT. Note this is good for the collector side of me, but very <bad for the 'innovative, creative, etc.' side of me. Yep! Now all your boards don't work in the new machine and most of the older PCI ones don't behave either. What will merced run... pentium emulator so there is software for it. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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Merced - and the ol' Unix story (was Re: OT, but info needed: RAM uprade)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 15, 19:35, Max Eskin wrote: > In fact, I've always found the limitations of DOS and PCs curious. Does > anyone know why: > > *They refuse to boot from anything but A: or C: > *DOS FDISK refuses to create more than 1 primary partition > *DOS can't find an ATAPI cd-rom without a driver, even though it's an IDE > device Pass. > *Why we are limited to 2 floppy drives in DOS Actually, you can have 4, if you have a controller at the secordary floppy controller address as well as at the primaryfloppy controller address. Each controller can only have two drives because of a silly hardware setup chosen by IBM. On a normal SA400-style interface, there are 4 drive selects, and one of each other control signal; each control signal is normally gated (on the drive) with the approriate select line. IBM chose to use an arrangement where completely separate motor-on signals were provided for the two drives. The way they did this was to arrange the signals in the cable such that one drive used a particular drive select and the motor signal in the standard place, and the other drive used a different select with the moror signal on a different wire. Hence the infamous cable twist, such that each drive sees a particular drive select (it's the second select line) and the motor-on signal in the standard place. However, from the point of view of either drive, there is another motor signal on a pin which would otherwise be a select line for another drive. Thus you can't use all 4 drive selects, and hence only two drives per controller cable. Another way to look at it, is to assume that IBM wanted all drives to have the same jumper settings, including the drive select jumper. But instead of putting a twist in the cable which would just swap some of the select lines, they used a twist over a wider section. Unfortunately that also moves the motor control line to where a select line would normally be. Thus they need another motor control line somewhere else (where a drive select would be, obviously), and end up only being able to put half as many drives on the bus. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-8 on e-bay

by joe＠barrera.org

><rant> >Ok, maybe its just me. I'm a conniving, sniviling, wheez who would probably >step on my own mother to get at a cool computer (on my good days) and I >spend alot of time raking though the ebayish trash to come across something >tastey in a dark passed over corner of the sale. And just when you think >you got a line on something, some damn smaraitan decides to post a >billboard.... (no offense) ></rant> I completely understand... but you have to admit, "PDP" is not a very obscure search string (it's among the ones I usally check every day anyway). So chances are pretty small that the PDP-8 (if that's really what it is) would have gone totally unnoticed. Now, finding something listed only under "DEC" is another story, given how many false positives it turns up (playboys, national geographics, etc.) - Joe (fellow conniving wheez)

27 years, 6 months

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More Books

by joe＠barrera.org

>BTW I'd never heard of CORAL or PARLOG before. Anyone with experience want >to comment? http://www.realtime-info.be/encyc/techno/terms/99/19.htm http://www.realtime-info.be/encyc/techno/terms/6/68.htm CORAL 66: A real-time system programming language derived from JOVIAL and ALGOL 60. It was adopted as the British military standard from 1970 until the arrival of Ada. Parlog: An AND-parallel Prolog, with guards and committed choice nondeterminism (don't care nondeterminism). Shallow backtracking only.

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-8 on e-bay

by joe＠barrera.org

>Just out of curiosity, while the description says PDP-8, is it *really* a >straight "8" or did the seller forget to add on any important little >suffixes? Seems like that would make quite a difference in the price of the >unit. Good question... I've pointed him at a web site with PDP-8 pictures (Paul Pierce's) and asked him to identify the suspect. I've received at least one email asking whether I'm crazy. Well, clinically, yes. :-) But beyond that, I was severely traumatized as a child (well, in high school) and I'm still recovering. I spent most of my morning recesses (and many lunches) of my sophmore and junior years programming an IMSAI 8080 system, with North Star BASIC and floppy drive, Tarbell tape monitor, and a teletype for a printer. Then when I returned from Summer vacation my senior year, I found the IMSAI disappeared, replaced with (IIRC) an Altos MP/M machine. I was heartbroken. So now that I'm a grown-up and have a real job and some money to spend, I spend some of it on old computers. Perhaps I'm crazy. But not nearly as crazy, in my opinion, as people that buy mass-produced luxury cars for many tens of thousands of dollars... - Joe PS. Paul, are you on this list?

27 years, 6 months

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Baa-aa-aad jokes...

by dogas＠leading.net

That shear is a turn for the worse.... ;) - Mike:dogas@leading.net -----Original Message----- From: Hans Franke <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 10:17 AM Subject: Re: Baa-aa-aad jokes... >> > > But where can you find a drive that can read a sheep? >> > You mean you've not come across baa-code readers :-) >> I have...but didn't have enough RAM to use it! ;-) > >Never drive a RAM - to dangerous. > >Gruss >H. > >-- >Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >HRK >

27 years, 6 months

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GRID LAPTOP

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 04:30 PM 1/19/99 -0500, you wrote: > While out junking at lunch I met a gent who said he has a Grid Laptop > with a metal case (he said this model went to the moon) and uses > bubble memory. He said he'd entertain selling it but I've no idea what > to offer. Any ideas on what to offer or any info on this laptop? I'd > appreciate and info. Could be any one of several models. If it really uses Bubble Memory, it's probably a Compass (model 11xx). That, I'd pay a bit of money for, maybe as much as $50 if it's working. More likely, it's a GRiDCase and maybe worth $20 at most. If, on the other hand, it's a Convertible (2260 or 2270), you're talking real money again; I'd pay $100 for a 2270. The one that was used on the shuttle (I don't think the shuttle ever landed on the moon?) was (iirc) the GRiDPad 19xx, see my other message about those. If it turns out to be a 1535 (or other model with both the Gas Plasma screen and battery power), let Derek Peschel know; he's been looking for one for a while. (I have been trying to find one unsuccessfully for him.) Aside from the bubble memory and the magnesium case, btw, the Compass was the first of the clamshell style computers. Beat the Gavilan by half a year at least. (And no, the Gavilan wasn't the second clamshell either.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 6 months

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PDP-8 on e-bay

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=58405239 Don't know what the reserve is. The same guy also has a SOL and a Rainbow for sale. Regards, Steve Robertson - QA Team Leader <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> HotOffice Technologies, Inc. <http://www.hotoffice.com> Phone: +1.561.995.0005 x228 Fax: +1.561.995.5990 HotOffice - The World's First Online Virtual Office Service

27 years, 6 months

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GRID LAPTOP

by Marty＠itgonline.com

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: GRID LAPTOP Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 1/20/99 10:40 AM > > The one that was used on the shuttle (I don't think the shuttle ever landed > > on the moon?) was (iirc) the GRiDPad 19xx, see my other message about those. > No, the shuttle never landed on the moon. (At least not that THEY've told > us about :-) Various shuttle missions have used the Compass, the 1910, > and the 1530. >>They have - I have seen in more than one movie a shuttle on >>the moon, and neither Hollywood nor my TV would lie (There is >>a nice >>B (?) picture, some kind of Dracula/Alien/Bermuda Triangle >>mxture, where they use Shuttles for moon missions, and from the >>inside they are bigger than the Nostromo ...). Thanks. At first I felt completely and totally foolish after stating the 'gent' told me the Grid had been to the moon. Now I feel vindicated. Hooray for Hollywood! Marty > In fact, NASA orignally funded GRiD to build the Compass just for this > purpose, AFAIK. GRiD stood for Graphical Retreival Information Display or > somesuch terribly strained acronym. Didn't know about that until now - I thought they where done as som high class luxury toys (liek mountain boots for the office:) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1999Jan20.104036.1767.93940; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:40:36 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id HAA27710; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:37:34 -0800 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id HAA2 1826 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:37:22 -0800 Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (nixpbe.pdb.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id HAA23 866 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:37:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from M23769PP (m23769pp.mch.sbs.de [139.25.241.35]) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA11093 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:37:02 GMT Message-Id: <199901201537.PAA11093(a)nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:37:03 +1 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Hans Franke" <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: GRID LAPTOP In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.990119175753.27006B-100000(a)genco.haggle.com> References: <3.0.16.19990119145248.2a7f1538(a)ricochet.net> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 6 months

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Infocom InvisiClues

by ckaiser＠oa.ptloma.edu

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 752 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990119/79a7b9a2/at…

27 years, 6 months

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Disasters and Recovery

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

But where can you find a drive that can read a sheep? At 08:33 PM 1/17/99 -0800, you wrote: >On Sun, 17 Jan 1999, Jim Strickland wrote: > >> It bears mentioning that the dead sea scrolls were written on sheep hide. > >Doh! > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Always being hassled by the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 01/15/99] >

27 years, 6 months

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Heathkit H11 (was Re: Unibus boards for trade

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I'd like to configure a Heathkit H11 as a *small* PDP-11 with just CPU >(M7270 LSI-11/02), terminal, and paper tape. I have no cards for it now, >but I've got the M7270 on order. It works just fine... I configured my H11 box with an 11/53+ (KDJ11-D) processor. >Which cards do I need for RAM, serial, and parallel I/O? I know nothing >about DEC buses. Do I need a bus terminator or anything else? Also, I >recall that something about the H11 wasn't DEC compatible, but I don't >remember what it was.... I suggest you get an MXV11-B board. This has some memory, two serial lines and the boot code all on board. Then you'll need some sort of disk interface, like RQDX3 (and a couple of disks). You'll need to find a leprechaun box (external desk-top mounting box for RD series disks, the kind which go with the RQDX3). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 6 months

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Prime parts

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

Group, I'm trying to resurrect a PRIME 2450. If anyone has spares or knows where to get them, I'd sure appreciate it. Thanks, Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

27 years, 6 months

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Disasters and Recovery

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

Presumably you can counter the effects of gravity by rotating the capsule every 'n' units of time. As for semiconductor degredation, that can be mititgated by lower temperatures. Also when I worked at Intel we measured dopant migration which was not measurable when power was not applied. There were concerns that during operation the temperatures and electric fields generated would cause things to migrate and the chip to eventually fail. Analysis of 5 year old chips that had not been powered up showed no measurable change. Given that I don't believe the semiconductors will have a problem. However the EEPROMs and FLASHes can very well have a problem. The BIOS on most mother boards is flashed in and it requires that the system boot to flash a new bios in. Perhaps a tool to flash the bios in circuit would need to be supplied as well. I like the mylar paper tape idea. Although I cannot imagine how much tape I would need to hold a 128K byte flash image. Wait a minute, let me get some tape here .... 10 bytes/in so 13,107" or 1092' or roughly 11 100' rolls. That is a lot of tape and that is only the BIOS! I agree with Sam we may be relying on 22nd century technology to recover the bits from the mag tape. And while Tony's comments about restoring a PDP-8 or 11 are good ones, I suspect that in the 22nd century they would be able to fabricate one fairly easily. The goal is to create a snapshot of "current" computing as it is at the turn of the century. And it may be an exercise in futility to expect it to work, but my goal was to make a credible best effort to address those things (like batteries) that would be known to make it _not_ work. --Chuck

27 years, 6 months

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Kaypros and Osbornes

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

Group, I picked up a ZORBA at the thrift shop a couple of weeks ago (25$). Looks like the Mother Board is fried. I opened the case and it's immaculate inside. If anyone needs any of the guts, let me know. Regards, Steve Robertson - QA Team Leader <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> -----Original Message----- From: Bill Pechter [SMTP:pechter@monmouth.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 7:46 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Kaypros and Osbornes > > I think other people's reasoning is that a lot more people know about the > O1 than the Kaypro, so that gets more interest/higher perceived value. > Meanwhile, no one's ever heard of a Zorba, so I don't know why the two I've > heard about sold for over $100. > Because the Zorba's are slick little CP/M machines? --Bill (a Zorba fan and owner) --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org

27 years, 6 months

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OT Re: Reading age of 3 (was: Re: Computers for children)

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> [1] If you read to your kids every day, spend your non-working time taking > them to museums, plays, camping, etc., work with them on what they're > interested in, even if it means giving up watching football, spending time > with your friends, and so on, then this doesn't apply to you. No kids of my own yet. But my experience of kids these days is that "work with them on what they're interested in" means that I'd have to _start_ watching football. And I find it hard to think of any activity more boring. But by and large I agree with you. Just don't forget what you keep telling us - your girlfriend is not a typical teacher, she is an example to the profession. Teaching usually pays peanuts, and the profession therefore has more than its fair share of monkeys. If we can get both good teachers _and_ good parents, even the less bright kids will go far... Philip.

27 years, 6 months

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Computers for children

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:24 PM 1/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >What I meant was, in the early BASICs, you would have to type out the FOR >loop with a variable, an increment, a conditional statement, and a goto. Every BASIC I've ever used had a for-next construct as follows: FOR variable = start TO end [BY inc] commands NEXT [variable] No GOTO was ever needed. However, it is just a simplified version of a combination IF and GOTO. >easier to understand that the NEXT X must be going back to that FOR X= 1 >TO 10 I saw a while ago, as opposed to scrolling incessantly trying to >find where each GOTO leads. For-Next is pretty basic (pun intended). Do While/Do Until is not found in earlier BASIC's; perhaps that's what you were thinking of? Nonetheless, Using IF and GOTO to simulate a For-Next loop does not mean lots of searching for GOTO destinations -- if you are a good programmer, it doesn't. >I don't know exactly at what point the FOR...NEXT gets translated into its >components, but the point is, since it doesn't have to be typed out, it's >somewhat lower-level. For-Next is interpreted when executed. It is at that point that the relevant machine language instructions are generated and executed. Machine language is low-level, C is slightly higher, BASIC is definitely high-level, things like Powerhouse and other 4GL's are even higher levels of extraction.

27 years, 6 months

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picked up PDP11/23

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Davie <adavie(a)mad.scientist.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, 20 January 1999 23:47 Subject: picked up PDP11/23 >Just thought I'd let the list know what I got today >PDP 11/23 PLUS, with DECSTATION across the front. >RT01 on top, an RT02 on the bottom. >Serial number of the machine is 320 - pretty low :) Nice catch...... >Now, to get the thing running... first I'll have to put a nail across the >circuit in my fusebox, as I can only run the dishwasher and heater... or the >TV and the microwave and the fan... or... you get the idea. The PDP cord is >10A, so I'm told :) You probably have a bit of leeway there, DEC boxes always seem to draw less than they say on the psu labels. My 6000-320 is 3200w according to the markings, but it only uses about 500. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.

27 years, 6 months

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Setting-up AppleTalk?

by thedm＠sunflower.com

You need to pick a folder on your macintosh and share it. Then on the GS, you go into appleshare and it will give you a list of the available servers. The GS can only be an appletalk client, not an appleshare server. -----Original Message----- From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. <rcini(a)msn.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 7:29 PM Subject: Setting-up AppleTalk? >Hello, all: > > I'd like to try to get my Mac 512k, Apple //gs, and IW-II talking >together. I have all of the LocalTalk (PhoneNet style) hardware connected to >the respective units. However, this is the first time that I'm attempting >any form of networking on my Apples, so I really don't know where I'm going. > > I know that you have to identify one of the serial ports as LocalTalk. >I've done this in the //gs Control Panel, and I think that I've done this on >the Fat Mac, but what am I supposed to see? How do I know that it works? > > Thanks again. > >[ Rich Cini/WUGNET >[ ClubWin!/CW7 >[ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking >[ Collector of "classic" computers >[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ >[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ ><================ reply separator =================> > > > >

27 years, 6 months

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Interesting find -> Honeywell-Bull AP/M

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Where would I get a copy of Norton? (one of the many useful utilities I don't have) There's no Undelete. It has some Bull-ized version of DOS 3.2. ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> > >Why don't you use UNDELETE or Norton and see if you can recover some files >in the ARCNET directory and/or others. If UNDELETE is not in the DOS >directory, I'd bring Norton to it on a floppy rather than write it to the >disk. > > - don

27 years, 6 months

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Bubble memory

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 04:31 PM 1/19/99 -0800, you wrote: >Speaking of Bubble memory has anyone ever run across an Apple ][ bubble >memory card? No but I have a new Intel one for a PC. Joe

27 years, 6 months

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Sanyo 55x detractors (was:RE: IBM Floppy...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I nominate the Sanyo 550 series computers as THE worst computer ever sol <in the US! < < I also nominate the Sanyo 550 computers has having THE worst <documentation of any computer ever sold in the US! < < Any seconds? No but I'd counter that the average PC from the late AT clones on may set a new standard for non documentation. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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Multiuser computing invented!

by kurtkilg＠geocities.com

Thought you folks might get a kick out of this ad in the new PC World: "This revolutionary new technology allows you to add a 2nd PC for only $149 to your existing Win95/98 PC (100 KHz (sic) or faster). With our _Buddy System_ - internal card installed in the main PC, up to 50 feet of cable and a little connector box, you can hook up a monitor, keyboard, mouse and create a new, completely independent PC. Consider this: Both PC's can concurrently run any software you have on the main PC..." Hehe...Made by Vega Technologies. Just call 1-888-654-5415 or visit www.vegatechnologies.com

27 years, 6 months

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Disasters and Recovery

by mtapley＠swri.edu

Ward Griffiths wrote: >...I really wouldn't expect a modern computer to manage more >than a few decades at best unless somebody developed a functional >"stasis field", and we need a major breakthrough in theoretical >physics -- and the followup engineering -- for that to happen. >... Ward, I'm surprised! There are at least two ways to do this with current physics: 1) put it way down deep in a gravity well. It'll have to be a *big* gravity well to get the potential difference without generating tidal stresses severe enough to threaten the structure of the computer. Pull it back out when you are ready for it. 2) Accelerate it up to near 300,000 km/sec. Take a couple of months, of course, else you'll generate acceleration-induced specific forces which again might be dangerous to the classic computer. Run it in a big circle, then decelerate it again at the destination date. It'll be in *much* better shape than its twins left at home, per Al Einstein's classic. Followup engineering, I admit, needs a breakthrough or two..... - Mark - Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Asteroids headed toward planets inhabited by beings that don't have technology adequate to stop them: Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward.

27 years, 6 months

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OT Re: Reading age of 3 (was: Re: Computers for children)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 07:53 PM 1/17/99 +0000, you wrote: >Of course being cynical, I could say that it's easier on the teacher to >have to teach less complex stuff. I am not saying the the lowest students >are the easiest to teach, but the brightest ones certainly aren't. The >latter are likely to question just about everything that the teacher says >(as I was known to do...) Actually, that's not true. The easiest thing for the teacher to do is to give kids lessons that a) interest them and b) are at their level. Lessons that are too difficult are frustrating and lessons that are too simple are boring. Either way, you end up with kids looking for something else to do, which is generally cause trouble (for the teacher.) (Speaking from experience on both sides of the issue.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 6 months

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OT: Alien Media (was Disasters and Recovery)

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> IC memory is a problem. Will they know what logic levels and supply > voltages to apply. Will data books survive? Very few of them are anything > like archival quality... > > It's things like that (+5V logic supply rails, TTL thresholds) that > we'll probably forget to include, but which might be _very_ important. Depending on how long we expect to elapse before the archaeologists get around to digging it up, I would tend to include copies of suitable reference books with whatever else is in the capsule. To take it to extremes, things like the definition of a volt may be needed... Philip.

27 years, 6 months

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TK50Z-GA EPROM

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

At 09:07 PM 1/18/99 +0000, Tony wrote: >> Hmm. You're comparing CMOS with TTL. The traditional EPROMs are not TTL >> but NMOS - very similar components (at the transistor level) to CMOS, but > >Were some of the early EPROMS PMOS? The 1702 might have been (the supply >voltages look like PMOS supply rails), but it's not stated in either the >Intel or NatSemi data sheets. > Yes, as well as National's (5203), as well as families like Intel's 1101, 4004, 4040, 8008, etc. My guess back then = around 1974, was NMOS was not used (much) yet, so MOS only meant pMOS. Another giveaway would be the negative Vdd. It puzzled me for a bit that some pMOS chips had no ground (0 Volt) pin, a 1101, for example, ran off a 14 Volt supply with the positive tied to 5 Volts so the pMOS outputs could drive TTL. Am sure there were very many others such as the AY-5-1013 UART and 2513 (in)famous character generator... One of Intel's last pMOS products was the 1103 1K ram. I seem to remember it was marketed as a replacement RAM for various mini's. This is _only_ 25 years ago, does anyone have a system RAM board running with these? (Connecting the thread for 100 year old systems.) -Dave

27 years, 6 months

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OT: Bomber navigation [WAS: Long term data storage (was: Disasters and Recovery]

by gregorym＠cadvision.com

At 09:46 PM 1/18/99 -0500, you wrote: > >On-board instrumentation on German aircraft was not that good (as it was >also not that good on English or American planes early in the War) during >the Blitzkrieg. Landmarks were often crucial. Stonehenge _may_ have been >a landmark, but there weren't that many targets (none that I can think of) >beyond it for bombing raids from the usual directions -- at most, it would >have clued the navigator to tell the pilot to turn around. > >Stonehenge was definitely neither bulldozed nor bombed. It would show, and >too many people have examined it since then. (And a number of groups held >ceremonies there during the war, not always with the permission of the >government despite the fact that they were on the same side). > >-- >Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/> > >WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, >and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. > On the contrary, German aircraft during the Blitz used two fairly sophisticated systems of radio navigation called Knickebein and X-Geraet. The former used overlapping Lorenz beams to guide bombers along the flightpath to their targets, using super-sensitive versions of their blind-landing receivers. The latter used radio beams that intersected over the target; one beam provided flightpath direction, the second announced when the target was reached. The British expended a lot of time and energy locating and jamming the signals, and later copied the system when Bomber Command went on the offensive (called Oboe, I think). My apologies if the details above are inaccurate; it's been a long time since I read R.V. Jones' Most Secret War (great book, BTW). Mark Gregory.

27 years, 6 months

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mac tool

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/19/99 9:05:53 PM EST, lemay(a)cs.umn.edu writes: << Does anyone know where I can get the tool you need to use to crack open teh case of an old MacIntosh? I seem to recall that in addition to special torx tools, probably one with an extra long shaft, that you needed something to pop the case open... I'd like to upgrade the tiny hard drive in a mac se, and maybe in a mac plus 1 Meg, to use a 250 meg scsi drive. Any idea if these units will run system 7? >> yes, they will run system 7, but make sure you have 4 meg. also, get the updates so you're running 7.01 or 7.1 system 6.0.8 is smaller and faster too. you dont need a mac cracker to open those compact models. here's two hints: 1. once all screws are removed, try pressing on the scsi and and floppy drive connectors on the back while holding the back half of the mac. that usually seperates it. or, 2. undo all screws, then start them back in their holes about one turn. use your torx tool to press against the screws while holding the back half of the mac. when it seperates, remove all screws and take the back half off.

27 years, 6 months

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mac tool

by joebar＠microsoft.com

>>I'd like to upgrade the tiny hard drive in a mac se, and maybe in a mac plus >>1 Meg, to use a 250 meg scsi drive. > >Let me get this right, you want to put an internal HD in a Mac Plus?!?! >Somehow I really don't think that's possible. They're meant to use an >external drive. As long as you get the SCSI termination right, does it matter? I'll confess, I don't do Macs, but with PCs, I routinely make internal drives external and vice versa... ...or are you concerned mostly about space and heating? - Joe

27 years, 6 months

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IMSAI/586 [ Re: Multiuser computing invented! ]

by joe＠barrera.org

>$149 to your existing Win95/98 PC (100 KHz (sic) or faster). At 100 KHz, I think you're better off spending the $149 upgrading to a 1Mhz 8080... :-) Seriously, how slow can you clock a Pentium and still have it run? More generally, can you build an IMSAI style box (with more LEDs :-) around a Pentium and be able to single step the processor? - Joe

27 years, 6 months

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