- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I found this in a news-group. I've never heard of a MAC-8 before. The Bell Labs Technical Journal, Autumn 1997, p53 states: The first microprocessor designed at Bell Labs was the Mac-8, a general purpose 8-bit micro- processor announced February 17, 1977. The Mac-8 was designed in 5-micron CMOS, requiring 7,500 transistors in an area of 32,45 mm2. It was packaged in a 40-pin dual inline package and ran at 3 mHz, providing 0.2 million instructions per sec- ond (MIPS) in performance. Long ago and far, far away in another lifetime; I somehow acquired a tube of these chips. I've always wanted to get a minimal system going built around this CPU. However I have NO DATA WHATEVER on them. Does anyone, anywhere reading this have the necessary hardware/software tech data to allow me to build and program a small system built around a Mac-8 ????????

27 years, 6 months

2
1
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Altair Registry

by jpl15＠netcom.com

With the current foment and debate concerning the mechanics of free-market capitalism as applied to Our Hobby.. this is prolly on-topic. It has been suggest to me (privately) that I have reacted to David Freibrun's offer of a central Altair registry in a bitter and unfriendly way. Such was not my intent, though Freudians are undoubtedly nodding their heads sagely right now saying "JaJa, he only sinks he means dat.." For the *tone* of my message, I truly apologize. For the *content* of my message, I reiterate, a little more calmly, that I have no intrinsic problem with a centrally-maintained database of who gots what where. BUT... tied in to some of the concerns Doug has/is raising [not that I agree with all of it, Doug... :) ] I am really leery of providing personal info on a rare and perhaps desirably valuable item in my possesion.. which, in the case of my Altair, is not for sale or trade, and I'd rather it not be stolen, either. That's all I tried to say, and I guess I got huffy in the process. If such a list is set up and maintained well and seems trustworthy, I have no problem with listing my gear. David, I apologise if I offended you personally... again it was not my intent. Cheerz John

27 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

Where to buy Gorilla Banana printers?

by todd.osborne＠barnstormer-software.com

Anyone know where I can find a Gorilla Banana printer? I have searched all the "normal" channels. These things were so popular in the early 80's, I can't believe they have all disappeared. Thanks, -------------------------------------------------------- Todd Osborne Senior Software Engineer FMStrategies, Inc. http://www.fmstrategies.com/ -------------------------------------------------------- FMStrategies, Inc: tosborne(a)fmstrategies.com Internet E-Mail: todd.osborne(a)barnstormer-software.com -------------------------------------------------------- Founder of the Virtual Windows Class Library (C++) http://www.barnstormer-software.com/vwcl/ -------------------------------------------------------- Anagrams? (http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/) Can you figure out this one? Want the answer? E-Mail me. COCO VERDI MOM (Hint: Think Late 1970's Computer) -------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "The timid die just like the daring, and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" - Michael Longcor

27 years, 6 months

8
12
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Unix for 8080/Z80? [Re: WooHoo!! PC/XT Unix anyone?]

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well . . . CP/M "looked a lot like" the old OS/8, yet it wasn't. I guess it depends on what your goal is. With the CP/M, it was having a console protocol which was already understood by any unemployed DEC programmer so they could be put to work on the 8-bit micros. Because it was already a defined quantity, it didn't have to be too thoroughly documented, either. I don't know about OS-9. I never saw it on a 6809 though I did see it running on a 68008, which is quite a bit more processor. It didn't look too much like *NIX either.l Dick ---------- > From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Unix for 8080/Z80? [Re: WooHoo!! PC/XT Unix anyone?] > Date: Saturday, January 23, 1999 9:43 PM > > > <This notion of cooking up or breathing new life into an old 8-bit model to > <run *NIX is probably a mite more than has been considered for one reason. > <*NIX tends to want to use virtual memory, without which many systems would > <quickly choke. The old CPM-capables don't support VM. A good reason for > <this is probably the lack of performance. > > Unix didn't always have the idea of virtual memory. See Minix for an > example of that also V4 and maybe V5 unix didn't either. > > Also It's been done! UZI uses the total swaping model, IE: processes are > swaped out of core to make room for others. > > Allison

27 years, 6 months

1
0
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IBM PC-JX (was: Reiability of wrong media)

by guerney＠uq.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> >How many know about the IBM PC-JX? It had 5.25" 720K drives! >Never sold in the U.S., just Japan and Australia? Hmmm ... never sold in the US....I'll not dwell on the obvious about collecting a load of JX systems that were used in some schools here and selling them on e-bay ;) Do you US collectors want these machines? I don't collect IBM PC's, although I did relent once and pay $A20 for a JX machine (IBM Model 5511 with 5515 monitor and 5519 expansion unit - made in Japan and all in black with a 3.5" drive in the main box and a 5.25" drive in the expansion box) that was in good condition. As I suspected, not a very interesting computer to me. If someone was prepared to foot the freight bill from Australia, I would be prepared to sell or trade it. I also would be prepared to look out for others and send them on. Same applies to real Aussie micro's like Microbees and not-so-real Aussie items like Dick Smith branded computers (which invariably were sold under other brand/model names in the USA). Trades are more interesting to me than sales - my main interest is roughly defined as "1975-1985 home micros". It doesn't matter how much money I got for this at auction, it wouldn't help me find a lot of stuff that seems available to you lot at your local thrift store! If anybody is interested, contact me by private e-mail. Just be prepared for at least a 3-month shipping delay, unless it is only a light item, or you can afford a hefty air-freight bill. Phil Brisbane, Australia.

27 years, 6 months

1
0
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Legitimacy of the Ten Year Rule.

by roblwill＠usaor.net

How about no IBM PC's above the 5170? -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Doug <doug(a)blinkenlights.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, January 24, 1999 2:49 PM Subject: Re: Legitimacy of the Ten Year Rule. >On Sun, 24 Jan 1999, Bill Yakowenko wrote: > >> 4. Simply having origins in something that is classic does not make a >> thing classic. Otherwise *everything* would be classic. > >Here's the dictionary definition of "classic" that I think most of us mean >when we use the word in the context of this list: > > Having lasting significance or worth; enduring. > >The problem is that "significance" and "worth" are personal judgement >calls. I really think it's futile to try to define acceptable criteria. >How about defining it this way: > > Discussions related to machines no longer supported by their > manufacturers, with the exception of old IBM PCs, Macs, and their > clones. > >-- Doug > >

27 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

E-pay: Kaypro 2X with software and printer

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

Kaypro 2X system with software, cables, daisy wheel printer http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=59787635

27 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Unix for 8080/Z80? [Re: WooHoo!! PC/XT Unix anyone?]

by edick＠idcomm.com

This notion of cooking up or breathing new life into an old 8-bit model to run *NIX is probably a mite more than has been considered for one reason. *NIX tends to want to use virtual memory, without which many systems would quickly choke. The old CPM-capables don't support VM. A good reason for this is probably the lack of performance. regards, Dick ---------- > From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Unix for 8080/Z80? [Re: WooHoo!! PC/XT Unix anyone?] > Date: Saturday, January 23, 1999 11:44 AM > > > Any Unix clones for 8080/Z80 systems? It ought to be doable, given that the > > original Unix was done on a 64KB address space machine... > > The problem with any multi-tasking or multi-user system on a Z80 is that > there is no easy way to write position-independant code. There is no > relative call and no relative loads/stores (both the PDP11 and the 6809 > have them). There are workarounds (either you use RST instructions to > simulate the relative call, etc or you relocate the task when you load > it), but they make life a little harder. > > -tony

27 years, 6 months

3
2
0 0

Unix for 8080/Z80? [Re: WooHoo!! PC/XT Unix anyone?]

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<This notion of cooking up or breathing new life into an old 8-bit model to <run *NIX is probably a mite more than has been considered for one reason. <*NIX tends to want to use virtual memory, without which many systems would <quickly choke. The old CPM-capables don't support VM. A good reason for <this is probably the lack of performance. Unix didn't always have the idea of virtual memory. See Minix for an example of that also V4 and maybe V5 unix didn't either. Also It's been done! UZI uses the total swaping model, IE: processes are swaped out of core to make room for others. Allison

27 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Unix for 8080/Z80? [Re: WooHoo!! PC/XT Unix anyone?]

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Has it ever been tried on a TRS-80 Model 4? The hardware meets the above <requirements... Unknown. Porting uzi is a bit of a task as the user has to supply the low level drivers for their system. Allison

27 years, 6 months

1
0
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FYI: MEI/Microcenter is out of 5-1/4" diskettes

by mark_k＠iname.com

On Thu, 21 Jan 1999 Tony Duell wrote: >Ouch!. 8" disks are difficult to find, 5.25" disks are difficult to find >(what about 1.2 Mbyte ones - are they still available?), 3" disks are >impossible to find. I'd better start hoarding them... You can still buy 8", 5.25" HD and 3" disks. Trouble is, they may be *Really* expensive; I noticed on the Imation web site a couple of months ago that (from memory) a box of 8" disks was over US$100. 3" disks are still available new from at least one place in the UK, though they are over 2 pounds each. -- Mark

27 years, 6 months

4
3
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Altair Collectors Registry

by davidfreibrun＠home.com

I'm am trying to perserve history and keep people informed by building this registry. It is completely voluntary. I'm sorry you are so bitter. davidfreibrun(a)home.com http://altaircomputers.org -----Original Message----- From: John Lawson <jpl15(a)netcom.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, January 24, 1999 1:29 AM Subject: Re: Altair Collectors Registry > > So... let me get this straight... you want every one to >*register* their Altairs with .....you??? For what, so you can get >a "hit list" together for a little second story work? So you can >spam-barrage members with Auction Solicitations? > > Aren't you the same individual trying to start the "Altair Owner's >Club" on one of those idiotic Yahoo 'conferences' or whatever they >call them.... and trying to get the List Admin to give you access >to the Archive so you can harvest names...??? > > OTOH, maybe my Curmudgeon Index is a little high today.. > > And, oh yes... thanks once again for shovelling a shit-load of >HTML crap into a plain-text based mailing list. > > > > Cheerz > >John

27 years, 6 months

2
1
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Altair Collectors Registry

by davidfreibrun＠home.com

Altair Collectors Registry http://altaircomputers.org/registrymodel.html Model: 680 Registered: 1 ------------------------------------- Model: 8800 Assembled Registered: 4 ------------------------------------- Model: 8800 Kit Registered: 12 ------------------------------------- Model: 8800b Registered: 5 ------------------------------------- Model: 8800b(sm) Registered: 1 ------------------------------------- Model: 8800b(t) Registered: 4 ------------------------------------- Model: Attache Registered: None If your model is not on the registry, let me know so I can update the list. Of course your privacy will be respected if you don't want your name published. Altair Computer Collectors davidfreibrun(a)home.com http://altaircomputers.org

27 years, 6 months

2
1
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Legitimacy of the Ten Year Rule.

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

I personally feel the 10 year "rule" is useful as a guide, however, I also consider that there are several machines that rightly qualify as "Classic Computers" that are less than 10 years old. There is a particular "grey" area in that a particular machine might span the period. I suppose logically, we should look at when a particular box was FIRST made. I have 2 Vax 6000's here (which I propose to the list are a "Classic" regardless of age") one is 89 manufacture and therefore (just) 10 years old. The other is a 1990 build. Microvaxen have been around for a fair while now, but I am given to understand they are still orderable, new, from Digital. IMHO, I would also class ANY Microvax as a "Classic" regardless of age. In fairness to all, it's unlikely that we want to see extensive discussions of the vagaries of Pentium II's discussed here (for some years at least!) but I am confident that the 10 year rule is meant to guide us, not shackle us to a time frame. i.e. IF you have a machine that is less than that age, or you wish to discuss it on the list, and IF you consider it to be a classic in it's own right, then I suggest it be put to the list. IF the consensus of list members is that it should be classed as a classic, then so be it. Just my 2c worth. Your opinions and/or mileage may vary. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 6 months

2
1
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ebay: Timex Sinclair Computers

by ss＠allegro.com

Date sent: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 15:24:49 -0800 Subject: Re: ebay: Timex Sinclair Computers From: healyzh(a)aracnet.com To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Send reply to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Jeez, even with 5 computers he probably got them for about that NEW back in > about '82! I wonder if that one place is still selling unmade kits? Yes...I bought two in December, for about $25 to $35 each (forgot exact amount). SS

27 years, 6 months

1
0
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DELQA Switch Settings

by dburrows＠netpath.net

SW1 closed = CSR 17774440 default SW1 open= CSR 17774460 SW2 reserved SW3 mode * SW4 option * SW5 reserved Default = all closed *remote boot and sanity timer - call me for these as my right hand is healing and typing is difficult. Dan -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, January 23, 1999 12:05 AM Subject: DELQA Switch Settings >OK, I'm almost ready to downgrade my PDP-11/73 to a DEQNA since I've got >plenty of Doc's for it :^) > >Does anyone have the switch settings for DELQA ethernet card such as they are? > >BTW, for a PDP-11 is there any real difference in the two cards? > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | >

27 years, 6 months

2
1
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Linux and 8" diskettes?

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

I've been thinking about trying to use my Microtech 8" drive unit, which is attached to a fairly standard FDC, to read IBM 3740-format (Sys/23, Sys/36, Displaywriter, etc.) diskettes from Linux. I did some reading on 'fdutils' and found one brief mention of 8" diskettes, but nothing really useful, for obvious reasons I guess. Has anyone tried this or anything like it on Linux? A lot of the 8" diskettes I'm getting from customers these days are in poor shape and the Microtech drivers don't handle hard errors very well. I'm hoping the Linux driver is a little more persistent and will allow me to recover more data with less hassle. If only I could read all the bad diskettes on the Displaywriter--that thing will grind away on a diskette all day if it has to and rarely fails on a hard error. I wouldn't normally bother the list with this, but getting Linux installed on this box is going to be a major project and if it won't work I don't want to invest the time and money. -- David Wollmann DST / DST Data Conversion http://www.ibmhelp.com/ ICQ: 10742063 AIM: FathomS36

27 years, 6 months

3
4
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Legitimacy of the Ten Year Rule.

by hhacker＠gte.net

Given that Classic Computer(s) list members can agree on a standard for the application of the term "classic" with regard to collected computing (and other) hardware, is that as far as it goes? Perhaps there is more to value in the discussion. The act in which we all participate, the collection, repair and restoration, and operation of collectable computers and software has become vogue. Hence, given our collective expertise on this matter, it is our opportunity to effect the language and propriety of our activity. I am sure that many would benefit from a formal presentation of the collective view of the propriety of applying the term "classic" to a computer, etc. To do so would not be different from the same activity as applied to antiques, numismatics, philately, etc. It is exactly in this way that these, and other, standards of collectability (a measure of "value" not necessarily economically justifiable) are derived, becoming manifest. I think that we would be doing ourselves and our activity justice. What say you? William R. Buckley

27 years, 6 months

4
4
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Memory. (was: Reliability of wrong media)

by mbg＠world.std.com

"Buck Savage" <hhacker(a)gte.net> wrote: >>Heck - my home PC has 128 Mb... which shows up through the >>POST as 130nnn (I forget the last three digits). > >128 * 1024 =3D 131072 > >Hence, if your display is > >131072K > >then your display is accurate. And it isn't what is displayed, though it is what I expected... >K means 1024, and that is universally accepted by all programmers! It >is we, the programmers of the world, who define the value of such >symbols, and = I say, it is also our prerogrative if ensure that their >use by lay persons is = accurate. This is not any different than du Pont >protecting the meaning of the = name teflon, nor Xerox the meaning of the >name Xerox. > >If this is not the display, then perhaps it is > >(128 * 1024) - (1024 - 640) =3D 130688 This looks more like it, and in fact is what I realized last night as I was writing a reply on this topic... so I did finally figure it out... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 6 months

2
1
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BNF pickiness. (was Re: Reiability of wrong media, etc.)

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

] ... ] There's a reason why I personally rarely reduce abbreviations all ] the way to two characters. I usually use {K|M|G}b{y|i}t[e][s]. If ] I leave it at just {K|M|G}, assume bytes. When you use "Kbyts", "Kbite", or "KBites", what does it mean? :-) How about {K|M|G}b{yte|it}[s]? Or even {K|M|G}{byte|bit}[s], which is less efficient, but clearer to humans? Any good compiler would optimize it to the former anyway. Cheers, Bill. ] -- ] Ward Griffiths ] "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then ] you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor

27 years, 6 months

1
0
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Reiability of wrong media (was: is out of 5-1/4" diskettes

by mbg＠world.std.com

Following up to my own post... I think the problem with '1.44 Mb' is that IBM chose to refer to the exact number of bytes without using the power-of-two term properly. For example... on pdp-11s, the virtual address space is always referred to as 64 Kb... but the actual max (byte) address is 65535. If we were to follow what it appears IBM did, we would have been referring to 65.5 Kb. I agree that it is annoying that it isn't consistent. Heck - my home PC has 128 Mb... which shows up through the POST as 130nnn (I forget the last three digits). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 6 months

5
5
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Memory. (was: Reliability of wrong media)

by hhacker＠gte.net

>Heck - my home PC has 128 Mb... which shows up through the >POST as 130nnn (I forget the last three digits). 128 * 1024 = 131072 Hence, if your display is 131072K then your display is accurate. K means 1024, and that is universally accepted by all programmers! It is we, the programmers of the world, who define the value of such symbols, and I say, it is also our prerogrative if ensure that their use by lay persons is accurate. This is not any different than du Pont protecting the meaning of the name teflon, nor Xerox the meaning of the name Xerox. If this is not the display, then perhaps it is (128 * 1024) - (1024 - 640) = 130688 and this value would be accurate, in the sense that the region of memory between 640K and 1M is typically excluded from the sum of all memory available within a PC environment because is is mapped out so that the I/O devices may be memory mapped. William R. Buckley

27 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

PC's Limited

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

I want one of those LCD panels! Where can I find one? At 01:01 AM 1/22/99 -0600, Dave Wollman wrote: >Have you seen the LCD panels for Linux boxes?

27 years, 6 months

9
13
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Unix for 8080/Z80? [Re: WooHoo!! PC/XT Unix anyone?]

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Gary Oliver <go(a)ao.com> wrote: > Damn. I'm home and can't look it up... But I believe I recall something > called (IIRC) "Micronix" (or something similar) that ran on a Godbout > or Morrow system. I have some hardware documentation for the system > that ran it - got it in anticipation of getting one of the S-100 CPU > boards. Yep. It was a Morrow thing and I think it ran on the Decision 1 system (not the Micro Decision which is completely different). I ran into someone once who said he had experience of running Micronix and told me I did *not* want to try running it. Heh. > The system had a memory paging system on top of a Z-80 and included > some fairly sophisticated protection (both memory and I/O) that would > have permitted a Unix-like system to operate securely. Likewise my docs and disks (and hardware) are buried in storage, but >from what I remember this is all on the Z80 card and described well enough to code around in its manual. It divides the Z80's 64KB address space and the IEEE-696 16MB address space into 4KB pages, so that any page in the Z80 address space can be mapped to any page in the -696 space, and it keeps 16 page tables (called "tasks") in RAM on the Z80 card. Task 0 is special (the "supervisor") in that one of its pages is the page table RAM. The page table entries have protection bits that mark a page for various sorts of access, and if the Z80 tried to access memory in a way that wasn't allowed, the card would force an interrupt in task 0's context so that task 0 could figure out what to do (which could mean something like increasing the failing task's memory allocation and retrying the operation). I think the CPU card for the Decision 1 is the Morrow MPZ80, but can't remember if I have the part name right or not. It's a fancy IEEE-696 Z80 card. If anyone has clues on the proper system configuration for Micronix, I'm interested -- it's been a while, but I did try to get it to boot once upon a time without much success. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Unix for 8080/Z80? [Re: WooHoo!! PC/XT Unix anyone?]

by kurtkilg＠geocities.com

On Sat, 23 Jan 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > Unix didn't always have the idea of virtual memory. See Minix for an > example of that also V4 and maybe V5 unix didn't either. I would expect that the original PDP7 that ran UNIX didn't have VM...

27 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

FYI: MEI/Microcenter is out of 5-1/4" diskettes

by edick＠idcomm.com

I have quite a number of experienced 8" diskettes I haven't discarded yet, and a few (30-40) of the 5-1/4 types (unused) which I'd be happy to send you, if you don't mind picking up the freight. Some of those 8" diskettes even have useful stuff on them. I once "inherited" a friend's collection of CP/M software but never got around to useing it for anything, since it was in some wierd format I couldn't read at the time. Dick ---------- > From: Mark <mark_k(a)iname.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: FYI: MEI/Microcenter is out of 5-1/4" diskettes > Date: Saturday, January 23, 1999 8:35 AM > > On Thu, 21 Jan 1999 Tony Duell wrote: > >Ouch!. 8" disks are difficult to find, 5.25" disks are difficult to find > >(what about 1.2 Mbyte ones - are they still available?), 3" disks are > >impossible to find. I'd better start hoarding them... > > You can still buy 8", 5.25" HD and 3" disks. Trouble is, they may be *Really* > expensive; I noticed on the Imation web site a couple of months ago that (from > memory) a box of 8" disks was over US$100. > > 3" disks are still available new from at least one place in the UK, though they > are over 2 pounds each. > > > -- Mark

27 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Where to buy Gorilla Banana printers?

by edick＠idcomm.com

That's definitely the answer . . . Thrift Stores . . . I donated about a dozen terminals and nearly as many daisywheel printers to them last year just to have the things out of here. It's amazing what you find there. Dick ---------- > From: John R. Keys Jr. <jrkeys(a)concentric.net> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: RE: Where to buy Gorilla Banana printers? > Date: Saturday, January 23, 1999 8:59 AM > > I do have a couple back in Houston with condition unknown at this time. > When I go back in June I will check and may make a trade. I got them at > Goodwill thrift stores in Houston. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu > > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Todd Osborne > > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 1999 12:57 AM > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Subject: Where to buy Gorilla Banana printers? > > > > > > Anyone know where I can find a Gorilla Banana printer? I have searched all > > the "normal" channels. These things were so popular in the early 80's, I > > can't believe they have all disappeared. Thanks, > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Todd Osborne > > Senior Software Engineer > > FMStrategies, Inc. > > http://www.fmstrategies.com/ > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > FMStrategies, Inc: tosborne(a)fmstrategies.com > > Internet E-Mail: todd.osborne(a)barnstormer-software.com > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Founder of the Virtual Windows Class Library (C++) > > http://www.barnstormer-software.com/vwcl/ > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Anagrams? (http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/) > > Can you figure out this one? Want the answer? E-Mail me. > > COCO VERDI MOM (Hint: Think Late 1970's Computer) > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Quote: > > "The timid die just like the daring, and if you don't take the plunge then > > you'll just take the fall" - Michael Longcor > > > >

27 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Legitimacy of the Ten Year Rule.

by edick＠idcomm.com

This is all well and good, but for the fact, it seems peculiar to refer to, and deal with, as "classic", machines, the architecture of which is still supported with currently available commercial, off-the shelf, software and hardware products. DIGITAL products aside, the original PC architecture is still supported with software and hardware in the form of playing-card-sized mocrocontrollers, etc. and the software to develop for and test these devices is still available, thereby extending the life of these old but still capable devices. The term classic, seemingly a qualifier to this list, must refer to SOME class. Isn't it like the old ('50's) T-bird, vis-a-vie the Edsel? Dick ---------- > From: Doug <doug(a)blinkenlights.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Legitimacy of the Ten Year Rule. > Date: Saturday, January 23, 1999 2:00 AM > > On Sat, 23 Jan 1999, Buck Savage wrote: > > > To do so would not be different from the same activity as applied to > > antiques, numismatics, philately, etc. It is exactly in this way that > > these, and other, standards of collectability (a measure of "value" not > > necessarily economically justifiable) are derived, becoming manifest. > > A "universal" rating/certification system, similar to the way coins are > graded, would be ideal. But I don't think you'll ever get this group to > agree on anything -- just do it! (And then sell a book.) > > Forget the word "classic". A guide that gives production numbers, > variations, years, criteria to judge condition, price, etc. would be cool > -- I'd buy one, and I'd buy a new copy every year as you updated prices > and other info. > > Start with Hans P's list of machines (and pay him royalties). > > -- Doug >

27 years, 6 months

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Where to buy Gorilla Banana printers?

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Good grief, what for? Don't tell me that they've started becoming a collector's item! Joe At 01:56 AM 1/23/99 -0500, you wrote: >Anyone know where I can find a Gorilla Banana printer? I have searched all >the "normal" channels. These things were so popular in the early 80's, I >can't believe they have all disappeared. Thanks, > > >-------------------------------------------------------- >Todd Osborne >Senior Software Engineer >FMStrategies, Inc. >http://www.fmstrategies.com/ >-------------------------------------------------------- >FMStrategies, Inc: tosborne(a)fmstrategies.com >Internet E-Mail: todd.osborne(a)barnstormer-software.com >-------------------------------------------------------- >Founder of the Virtual Windows Class Library (C++) >http://www.barnstormer-software.com/vwcl/ >-------------------------------------------------------- >Anagrams? (http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/) >Can you figure out this one? Want the answer? E-Mail me. >COCO VERDI MOM (Hint: Think Late 1970's Computer) >-------------------------------------------------------- >Quote: >"The timid die just like the daring, and if you don't take the plunge then >you'll just take the fall" - Michael Longcor > >

27 years, 6 months

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DELQA Switch Settings

by mbg＠world.std.com

>BTW, for a PDP-11 is there any real difference in the two cards? At least for RT-11, it doesn't matter from a programming standpoint since the NQ handler places the DELQA in DEQNA mode. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 6 months

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ten year rule.

by hhacker＠gte.net

>Jim Strickland >jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > >Does being designed around XT class hardware count? > Certainly is a laudable argument. How many XT systems are manufactured today? I can't imagine any myself, save for embedded systems. So, i'll vote for the term classic as applied to the presence of an XT foundation. William R. Buckley

27 years, 6 months

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LSI-11 Processor Status Word

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

Stupid question: I'm trying to install TCP/IP on my PDP-11/73 running RT-11 V5.4 and am trying to choose the proper driver. Does the PDP-11/73 CPU have a Processor Status Word? Also, if you've got a driver for TSX-11 do you have to have corresponding driver for RT-11 installed? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

27 years, 6 months

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WooHoo!! PC/XT Unix anyone?

by cube＠msn.fullfeed.com

Actually, there was a thingy called PC/IX which ran on those non memory-managed systems. I actually managed to snag a copy a few years ago. Jay At 04:28 PM 1/22/99 -0500, cswiger wrote: >Spotted this in a Linuxtoday.com article on the latest >linux kernel: > >"On somewhat of a tangent, there is continuing work to >support a subset of the Linux kernel on 8086, 8088, >80186, and 80286 machines. This project will never >integrate itself with Linux-proper but will provide >an alternative Linux-subset operating system for >these machines. " > >Hmmm, I do have *a* 'C' compiler running on one of those >Compaq luggables... > > Chuck > cswiger(a)widomaker.com >

27 years, 6 months

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DELQA Switch Settings

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

OK, I'm almost ready to downgrade my PDP-11/73 to a DEQNA since I've got plenty of Doc's for it :^) Does anyone have the switch settings for DELQA ethernet card such as they are? BTW, for a PDP-11 is there any real difference in the two cards? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

27 years, 6 months

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Reiability of wrong media (was: is out of 5-1/4" diskettes

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Well, every computer I have that has 1 MB or more or RAM. Which is a total of Hmm.. 4. All my others only have 640k. two are IBM's, one's a toshiba, and the other's my P200. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 4:27 PM Subject: Re: Reiability of wrong media (was: is out of 5-1/4" diskettes >> >> Every computer that I've ever owned, When it does a memory test of "1 >> megabyte", the listing is always >> >> 1024KB......OK. > >I can't work out if you're agreeing with me or not. > >However, 1024KB _is_ 1 Megabyte. It's 1024 * 1024 (=1048576) bytes. >Unless 'every computer that you've ever owned' defines 1KB as 1000 bytes >(hint : none of mine do that). > >-tony > >

27 years, 6 months

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Reiability of wrong media (was: is out of 5-1/4" diskettes

by mbg＠world.std.com

>If so, how does 1474560 become 1.44M, not 1.47M? >The only way is to mix the terms, and use 1024000 as a meg! That is >NEITHER the power of ten, NOR the power of two. In addition, it is NOT >what they then use to measure memory! Heck, I don't know about PCs... they do strange things. In pdp-11 land, we all talked about powers-of-two for memory and disk space, and knew full well that the actual count of bytes was going to be different. 1 Kb is 1024 bytes. 64 Kb is 65536 bytes. 128 Kb was 131072 bytes. and so on... Worked the same way for disks... RT-11 architectural limit for a disk volume is 32 Mbytes. That's 65536 (blocks) * 512 (bytes) ---------------------------- = 32 Mb 1024 * 1024 It all just seemed to work properly *in the ole days*, PCs screwed things up... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 6 months

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UCSD P-System info

by sieler＠allegro.com

Hi, If you're interested in the UCSD P-system, the pages at: http://www.ics.uci.edu/~archive/documentation/p-system/p-system.html provide some info on it. The "owner" of the pages is Dr. Alfred Bork, one of the implementors of UCSD Pascal. -- Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com http://www.allegro.com/sieler.html

27 years, 6 months

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PC's Limited

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:01 AM 1/22/99 -0600, you wrote: >I wonder if it could marquee "I wish I were an Alpha."? Just a thought. I wish I were an Alpha brand computer, and not a cheap taiwanese pc. cuz if I were an Alpha powered server, I would not be stuck with WinNT. Sorry, couldn't resist. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 6 months

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Reiability of wrong media (was: is out of 5-1/4" diskettes

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 21, 15:15, Don Maslin wrote: > Subject: Re: Reiability of wrong media (was: is out of 5-1/4" diskettes > On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > > Don't forget that '720K' 5.25" disks also exist, although they're not > > common on IBM PCs. By that I mean 80 track, double density, double sided, > > 300 oersted coercivity. Most of those do not have the reinforcing ring IIRC. And they're pretty common on non-MSDOS systems. I far more 80-track DS drives than 40-track of any flavour. > > > 720K 5.25" v 360K 5.25": again, an issue of testing/certification, > > > similar to SS v DS. At least for a while, they were manufactured the same, > > > but were tested/certified for 48tpi or 96 tpi. > > > > I have had very little success in formatting 48tpi disks in 96tpi drives. > > As I mentioned earlier, this includes name-brands like 3M.. > > Interesting! I have never had a problem using even generic 48tpi disks > at 96tpi. > - don Nor have I, usually. I tend to treat all double-density 5.25" disks the same. Some of the old ones I have were converted to be "flippy" 40-track, and some time ago I found one such without a label. Not knowing whether it really had been formatted flipped, I tried it out, using the by-now-standard 80-track DS drive and a two-step circuit, and found it had. "OK, so that's a flippy", I said to myself. A little later, I re-read the catalogue -- and got a different listing! I had inadvertantly catalogued side two, with the disk right-side-up -- and realised that the tracks must not line up, so side two had two sets of data, going in opposite rotations, with the tracks interleaved! So I have a three-sided 40 track disk :-) > > > 3", 3.25": Many newbies will get sloppy in reference to 3.5" diskettes, > > > without realizing that there actually were 3" and 3.25" diskettes. 3" > > > were used by Amstradt, some non-US Canon?, and Amdek add-on drives for Coco There are also 2.5" disks, though the only ones I've seen were made by TDK for an early digital camera. Anyone remember the make? Canon? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 6 months

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Reiability of wrong media (was: is out of 5-1/4" diskettes

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Every computer that I've ever owned, When it does a memory test of "1 megabyte", the listing is always 1024KB......OK. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 2:58 PM Subject: Re: Reiability of wrong media (was: is out of 5-1/4" diskettes >> Find me an authoritative reference that defines a megabyte as 1024 * 1024 >> bytes and I'll eat a pancake. > >I don't know how 'authoritative' you need, but will an IBM TechRef do? > >The PC/AT one that I've just picked up says : > > >M (1) Prefix mega; 1,000,000. (2) When refering to computer storage >capacity, 1,048,576 (1,048,576= 2 to the 20th power) > >Also >Mb 1,048,576 bytes. > >Incidentaly, it also defines > >Gb 1,073,741,824 bytes (=2^30 ARD) > >Can you find a reference (other than an advert :-)) that defines it any >other way? > >Anyway, I might accept that 1Mbyte = 10^6 bytes, particularly if you >happen to have a decimal or BCD machine :-) (this is classiccmp). But I >don't see any justification for making it 1024000 bytes. And that's the >only way you can have '1.44Mbytes' on a HD 3.5" disk > >-tony > >

27 years, 6 months

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C-10 Certified leaderless cassettes

by dogas＠leading.net

I cleaned out the local Radio Shack Liquidation Center of all their computer cassettes. At a nice price of 12cents each I bagged well over a hundred... So, if anyone is really ruffing it and could use some ust let me know. - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 6 months

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Bubble Memeory was Re: eBay Finds (was: Ebay Posts was...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I can't get to the bubble memory chip because it has a metal shield <spot-welded around it. Wrapped around 4 of the 6 sides, so to speak. I'= <ve tried removing this sort of thing before - nigh impossible without a <chisel, and I'm not about to do that. <Chip has 12 pins/side, for a total of 24, if that helps. Peeling the shield would destroy the part. It holds in place the magnets used for fixed bias to maintaining the bubbles during power off. There is nothing much to see under it. Allison

27 years, 6 months

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manuals, mac software

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

Well, all this talk of supplies of old floppies got me to worrying a bit, so I obtained permission to grab a bunch of old manuals and floppy disks from work. Actually I'm rather annoyed, because a former employee came back and asked for the N-Cube computer, and was given permission to take it! Thats a multi-processor machine with hypercube data exchange links between processors.. Sigh.. and it looked kool too (we had christmas lights blinking inside its smokey front panel, and students would see it and be very impressed at all the computing that was being done!) Anyways, I grabbed a bunch of old disk drive manuals and disk drive controller manuals, from abnout the sun2/sun3 era. Rimfire controller manuals for SMD-E style drives, eagle (maybe double eagle) drive manuals, CDC Sabre drive manuals, Fujitsu drive manuals (i think these are probably 5.25" drives, but they were rackmounted in teh old days and were in very long cases). If there is any interest i can catalog all the names of this stuff. I also have a set of NeXT manuals. Might be version 1.0, might be 2.1 And I'll be grabbing approximately 800 3.5" DSDD floppy disks that currently have very old MacIntosh software on them. Mainly stuff like Word, Excel, etc.. If anyones interested in this, I can work on making a detailed list of the manuals or software. Perhaps I could trade the manuals for something interesting. -Lawrence LeMay

27 years, 6 months

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OT: Alien Media (was Disasters and Recovery)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 22, 12:57, Max Eskin wrote: > Subject: Re: OT: Alien Media (was Disasters and Recovery) > Philip.Belben(a)pgen.com wrote: > > Metre, Kilogram, Second, Ampere, Kelvin, Mole and Candela (normally > > Kilogram? Why not gram? The whole system is based on units that are matched to each other in such a way that the constants involved in relating units to other units work out to unity. So the kilogram just happens to be a handier quantity than a gram, and saves a lot of dividing or multiplying by 1000. Except, of course, in real life, where units are rarely handy sizes at all :-) On Jan 22, 13:28, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Subject: Re: OT: Alien Media (was Disasters and Recovery) > :: Uh, I thought a gram was defined as 1 cc of water at 4C. A kilogram is > ::1,000 cc of water at 4C, which is one litre of water (a litre being 1,000 cc > ::volume). > > The original kilo is a big lump of metal in a bell jar, when the kilogram > was introduced as a standard. It was originally intended to be a cubic decimetre of water at it's maximum density. Unfortunatley, that turned out to be 28 ppm to large -- the constants I mentioned above don't quite work out to unity. So it was changed to an arbitrary amount to suit -- and the litre was defined as the volume of water that had that mass at it's maximum density. Hence a litre was actually 1000.028 cm^3. Since that just moves the "obviously silly" constant to a different place in the scheme, it was redefined later to be exactly 1000 cm^3, but with the recommendation that it not be used for work of high accuracy. Hmmm.... and we thought IBM were having trouble with the megamaths. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 6 months

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PC's Limited

by bill＠chipware.com

On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Uncle Roger wrote: > I will break with my above comments long enough to say that if I had lots > of storage space, it would be really cool to get a PC's Limited pc... My roommate in college had their 12MHz 286 with 640K of *STATIC* RAM. Oh man... I would have given my right arm for that machine. The front panel was really useful, not just that clone fake display set with jumpers. It showed POST codes, disk access info CPU speed... That was a cool machine. Bill Sudbrink

27 years, 6 months

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The "megabyte" discussion

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/22/99 3:03:37 PM EST, dastar(a)ncal.verio.com writes in repsonse to chuck mcmannis: > > I bought an IBM Deskstar hard disk that was rated at 810 Megabytes and it > > had a note inserted into the packaging that had, IIRC, this to say about > it: > > > > Dear Customer, > > The disk you have purchased holds 810,549,248 bytes when it > > is formatted. Some programs will use the value of 1,048,576 bytes > > as the size of a megabyte and will show this disk as having only > > 773 "megabytes" of storage, other programs will use 1,024,000 bytes > > as the size of a megabyte and show the disk as having 791 or 792 > > megabytes. We don't understand it either, sorry for the confusion. > > IBM Support > > I can hardly believe IBM would put that last sentence in any of their > literature. Some jocular IBMers must've slipped that thru when the > corporate exec wasn't looking. > well, you better believe that induhviduals can and do escalate up to corporate about things like this that they cannot or will not understand. hey, a little humour always helps the rank novice to get a clue. david

27 years, 6 months

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OT: Alien Media (was Disasters and Recovery)

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>> extremes, things like the definition of a volt may be needed... > > :-)... Possibly.. I think that might be going a bit far. I would hope > some other electrical books had survived. > > If not, how would you define a 'volt'? In terms of the steps on a > microwave-excited Josephson Junction? It's reproducable, and > frequency/time is also easy to define. I was thinking of defining it in terms of a bandgap, such as used in precision reference "diodes". I'd like to define it in terms of SI units, but the Kilogram is not too easy (yet). Philip.

27 years, 6 months

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FYI: MEI/Microcenter is out of 5-1/4" diskettes

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: I tried ordering the bulk 5-1/4" disks yesterday. Gone for good...none left...sorry...bye bye...look elsewhere. Better start stockpiling 360k diskettes... [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 6 months

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Reiability of wrong media (was: is out of 5-1/4" diskettes

by manney＠hmcltd.net

My heathkit H-89, which used SSHS mounted vertically, had a note in the manual that using "flippy" diskettes was not recommended, as dirt and suchlike (which collects on the liner during normal operation) was likely to fall out if the disk were flipped, and thus run backwards. S'pose that was so they could sell you more disks, or was there some truth to that? I can think of very few home units which had vertically mounted drives... Trash-80's are all that come to mind. P Manney >"Flippy": The second side can often be used in a single sided drive by >flipping the disk over. In the case of Apple ][ and Commodore, it >requires punching a write enable notch. (Which does NOT need to be square.) >On TRS-80, IBM, etc, it is necessary to also punch an additional >(symmetric) access hole for the index hole. (jigs for marking and >punching used to be available.)

27 years, 6 months

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eBay Finds (was: Ebay Posts was...)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:01 AM 1/21/99 -0800, you wrote: >One thing I find interesting is that I rarely find anyone talking about >their finds on ebay; why not? okay, I was waiting until I was able to do more research, but... For $5 and shipping, I got (on eBay!) a Sharp PC-5000 laptop. No biggie you think? Well, for starters, from what I can tell, it beats the Gavilan out for second place in the Clamshell laptop race (GRiD Compass was first). On top of that, it beats the Gavilan for: removeable program/data cartridges (uses Bubble Memory carts) clamshell with a built-in portable printer, and something else I forget at the moment. It's pretty cool, and a lot cheaper than some of the commoner stuff I've gotten. Other eBay scores: V-Marc 88a portable computer, NEC PC-8201 (not the 8201A), I'm sure there are more, but I have to go pick up my dad. eBay can be useful, but it's takes time to look for old computers. Try doing a search on "Donald Duck" (with the quotes) -- that's a piece of cake. Look for computer and you get a lot of junk. Look for "vintage" and you miss a lot. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 6 months

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