- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by dogas＠leading.net

No... It has been a long while since I read it too but IIRC the article was something like 'How to teach a matchbook to play tic tac toe' - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net -----Original Message----- From: blstuart(a)bellsouth.net <blstuart(a)bellsouth.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 9:56 PM Subject: Re: question about viruses >In message <01be5b3b$65657aa0$d3c962cf@devlaptop>, "Mike" writes: >>Speaking of _Adikesence of P1_ .... Does anyone know the SciAm issue date >>for the referenced matchbook neural net ??? > >It's been a long time since I read the book (I really should >read it again, now that the subject has come up). But if >he're refering to the article I think, it's by Martin >Gardner. Unfortunately, I can't find a full reference. >(Somewhere I've got a photocopy of it, but I can't find it >right now.) Anyway, I do find that it came from a 1962 issue. > >In the article, Gardner defines (I can't remember if he references >anyone else) a simple game played with six pawns played on a 3x3 >board. Using 24 matchboxes, he shows a learning machine called >Hexapawn Educational Robot (HER). > >I've got a fond spot in my heart for this one of Gardner's >articles. A simplified version was printed under the title >"How to Play Hexapawn" in the collection called *The New Reader's >Digest Treasury for Young Readers,* a copy of which was given to >me by a relative when I was a kid. It sparked my interest in AI >which reached it climax about seven years ago when I defended my >dissertation in machine learning. > >Brian L. Stuart >

27 years, 5 months

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Call A.P.P.L.E.

by dpeschel＠u.washington.edu

I couldn't send e-mail to you. > book. Still, in my paper, Apple Worm (published in the November > 1986 issue of Call A.P.P.L.E. magazine - as the cover story), I > make reference to the book. That's a name I haven't heard in a while. What was your involvement with A.P.P.L.E.? I grew up with the Apple ][. (I mostly played games, although I wrote a few interesting programs which I may still have.) I've lived in Seattle for the past 16 years, and my family belonged to A.P.P.L.E. We didn't go to many meetings. I was the main computer user in the family, but I was much too young to drive; my mom was almost totally uninterested in computers at the time, and my dad was only slightly interested. (Admittedly, I still can't drive, because my vision is not good enough, but I think you see what I mean. And I only got one good game out of my parents, which I let them sell -- see below.) Still, at one time we had a stack of magazines, a lowercase chip for our Apple ][+, something else (came in a plastic bag with a white manual, like the lowercase chip, except the title was in yellow instead of orange... maybe related to accounting? I don't remember), The Graphics Magician (?) and its companion program, The Mummy's Curse, and assorted public-domain disks. This was all from A.P.P.L.E. I'm not nearly as Apple-centric as I used to be (for example, I now appreciate the design of the Atari and Commodore, which I basically sneered at when I was younger; and I'm experienced enough to understand the ]['s flaws). But I still feel fond about my Apples. The access to machine language is still a strong point, the disk system has an admirable design, and some of the software produced for the ][ still amazes me. And we sold the software we had and now I'm looking for some replacement items. :( -- Derek

27 years, 5 months

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What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

On Thursday, February 18, 1999 10:17 AM, Joe [SMTP:rigdonj@intellistar.net] wrote: > >On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > > > >> I need a Seagate ST-419 to replace one that failed in a HP computer. > >> Anyone got one to spare? > > I opened up the 419 drive, No wonder it failed, someone drilled a 5/16" > hole thru the cover and all three platters! This thing was mounted under a > circuit board and inside a steel case. Everything was very neatly put back > together. Who would go to that much trouble to wreck a drive and why? > > Joe Joe, Drill about 18 more and put it up for auction ;-) Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

27 years, 5 months

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Classic Calculator: Value?

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Ok, so I'm not a big calculator collector. ;-) However, I did pick up a neat little box recently, one that I'd like to (a) find out, ballpark, what similar units have been going for on the swap market, and (b), use it myself for a while. What I've gotten is an HP-65, in pretty darn good shape, in its hard case with a bunch of the program pacs and all its manuals. I know I've got at least one, possibly two EE pacs, a stat pac, and others that I've not looked at just yet. The batteries are dead, of course, so I think I'd like to get them replaced at least. Are they generic NiCds or what? Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

27 years, 5 months

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Latest finds....

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

Yep, its the same thang, Sellam. I have the manual for this machine. There is a similar machine, the VZ-300. A -- Andrew Davie adavie(a)mad.scientist.com Museum of Soviet Calculators http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html Yahoo! Netscape, New Scientist, The Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and UK Independant Cool Site! >VZ200, eh? Interesting. Maybe you Oz-nerds can shed some light on this. >I recently acquired a Dynasty Smart Alec Jr. Its a small computer with a >chiclet keyboard. Almost reminds me of a Mattel Aquarius. Anyway, on the >bottom the label reads that its a model VZ200, made by VTech (or Video >Technology) circa 1982. Is this the same thing perhaps as a Dick Smith >VZ200? > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com

27 years, 5 months

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What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Gads! I've heard of reformatting old drives for security reasones, but >this one takes the Cake... Quick and easy way to eliminate a data >getting in the wrong hands I guess.. Quick and easy way of removing a few bytes, that's all. As I mentioned previously, there are companies which specialize in data recovery from disks... and the disks don't even have to be operational. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 5 months

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CESI PDP8/e boards

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

Anyone have any boards made by CESI in their PDP8/e ? I have a bunch of advertizement fliers describing many of these boards, if somoene is interested in the information. They made a replacement cpu board and quite a few other boards. -Lawrence LeMay

27 years, 5 months

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question about viruses

by dogas＠leading.net

Speaking of _Adikesence of P1_ .... Does anyone know the SciAm issue date for the referenced matchbook neural net ??? Thanks - Mike: Dogas(a)leading.net -----Original Message----- From: Derek Peschel <dpeschel(a)u.washington.edu> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 1:10 AM Subject: Re: question about viruses >> _Adolesence of P1_ was mid-70s. I just got another copy at a thrift >> store. Is it any good? > >I haven't read most of it. But if you want to learn about: a) how OS/360 >works, and b) how little computer power you really need for an artificially- >intelligent program (*smirk*), this is the book for you.

27 years, 5 months

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Differences between hard drives

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Can someone tell me the difference between a Memorex Model 101 and Model 102, and between a Fujitsu Model 2301 and Model 2302? Thanks. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99]

27 years, 5 months

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What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Wouldn't it just be quicker to remove all the partitions? And if the extra time is taken to reformat it, the drive can be sold if it is still usable. In the case that the hole was drilled through it, the drive may have died, leaving no way to reformat it. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: musicman38(a)mindspring.com <musicman38(a)mindspring.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 2:23 PM Subject: Re: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive > >--- I opened up the 419 drive, No wonder it failed, someone drilled a 5/16" >>hole thru the cover and all three platters! This thing was mounted under a >>circuit board and inside a steel case. Everything was very neatly put back >>together. Who would go to that much trouble to wreck a drive and why? >> >> Joe > >Gads! I've heard of reformatting old drives for security reasones, but this >one takes the Cake... >Quick and easy way to eliminate a data getting in the wrong hands I guess.. > > >

27 years, 5 months

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question about viruses

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Allison, < Do you remember a worm that some sysadmin (North, South Carolina or <someplace like <that?) turned loose on his systems, back around 89-90, and _forgot_ to <isolate his network from the general DECnet? I sure do.. Spent most of a Yes... I had to put securepak on VIDSYS:: and it was the first time the vax crashed seems there rev levels were a bit off. The machine was never quite as stable after that until I reinstalled when 5.3-2 came out. The istability was an inherited problem from the former sysop and system owner. I still have VIDSYS:: and it's still running 5.4-4 and securepak though I've trimed as much as I dare off. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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[OT] Space shuttle explosions and computers (was Re: Who invented the internet?)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

First off it's ok, I'm ok! <Allison wrote: <> FYI the speed attained at <> that point is some 3600mph far from orbital velocity. < <I'm not sure how to parse that. Are you saying that it was traveling at <3600 MPH, which is far from orbital velocity (i.e., a missing comma), or <that it was travelling at 3600 MPH less than orbital velocity? Sorry bout that. I do tend to be a tad graphlexic the comma should have been there. It was velocity of 3600. they need 17500+ to orbit. <(In any case, the use of the word velocity is incorrect. Velocity is <a vector, as I had drilled into me in Physics class.) Their forward speed, velocity. I'm a pilot and am quite used to having vectors influence the direction and speed that is indicated vs ground track. <The NASA reference I posted earlier claims: < At this point in its trajectory, while traveling at a Mach number < of 1.92 at an altitude of 46,000 feet, the Challenger was totally < enveloped in the explosive burn. Downrange groundtrack speed is far lower as the vector is still mostly vertical (still greater than 60degrees) at that part of the mission. If memory serves the debrie field was a rough footprint of 20 wide by 80 miles long (for the greater part of the material). As to what computer... Not sure myself totally. It's my belief that the IBMs are high level systems management computers and they command the engine computers. The engines have their own local computers to handle their realtime needs. Same applies to several other systems. I consider spacecraft/aviation computers to be both classic and of great interest. Most are very system and mission specific thus may be nothing more than sequential controllers. Still, I'm curious. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive

by musicman38＠mindspring.com

--- I opened up the 419 drive, No wonder it failed, someone drilled a 5/16" >hole thru the cover and all three platters! This thing was mounted under a >circuit board and inside a steel case. Everything was very neatly put back >together. Who would go to that much trouble to wreck a drive and why? > > Joe Gads! I've heard of reformatting old drives for security reasones, but this one takes the Cake... Quick and easy way to eliminate a data getting in the wrong hands I guess..

27 years, 5 months

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Old CDC/Magnetic Peripheral Drive on DPS6

by enigma＠sevensages.org

I have this weird drive on an old mini (Honeywell DPS6). These things have an internal fixed disk, plus, you have to put in a disk pack in them also. Well, on one of my drives, the belt that runs between the drive spindle and the motor broke. Where can I find a replacement? Manufacturer: Magnetic Peripheral Equip ID# BJ7D3-A Part # 77708003 Series Code 01 Another thing, I think the drive might be refurbished or something. On the serial number on one of them, atleast (the working drive) it has a hand-written "R" after the number. Anybody who can help me, please do. In fact, if you can help me with anything about the DPS6 or with GCOS6, I will be forever thankful. From what I've heard, GCOS6 is sort of a GCOS/Unix hybrid. Should be interesting. Also, if by chance, you know of an old Unix variant that would run on this baby, that could be nice too. I think having an old 7th edition Unix system would be nice. However, I think having GCOS6 would be really nice, too. Regards, J.S. Havard Head Geek The Seven Sages Project Regards, J.S. Havard - ----=(enigma(a)intop.net)=---------------------------------------------- This message was sponsored in part by John Havard. Copywrong (c) 1998 by John Havard under the terms and conditions of no sort of public license. All prices subject to change. Void where prohibited. Tax, title, and license fees not included. All rights reserved. ------------------------=(www.intop.net/~enigma/)=--------------------

27 years, 5 months

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What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive

by mbg＠world.std.com

I doubt it was security concerns, since there are companies which can recover data from all the parts of the platters which weren't drilled. Either that, or the security person who ordered it really doesn't know what they're doing... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 5 months

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I need a ST-419 hard drive

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I need a Seagate ST-419 to replace one that failed in a HP computer. Anyone got one to spare? Joe

27 years, 5 months

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Sanyo 550

by musicman38＠mindspring.com

>Phil Clayton wrote: >> >> Purchased a Sanyo MBC 550 today at the local thrift for $3.50.. >> Just the CPU, no monitor or Keyboard.. >> Haven't really tested it yet, but I did power it up with no monitor or keyboard >> and it tried to access drive A: >> Wonder if this thing has any real value. >> Anyone know how many of them were produced ? > >I was over at the thrift store today, and saw a Sanyo MBC 555 and the >monitor for $1.91 each; don't know if it had a keyboard or not. I have >three of them here along with keyboards, and two monitors. Can you get me a monitor & keyboard ? I goto the thrift stores all the time here in Fort Myers, FL and have never seen one of these in all the piles of computers I rumage through all the time. Must depend on where you live. I guess I will box this thing up and add it to my ever increasing collection of obsolite computers taking up more and more space in my garage. And I thought I got a good buy at only $3.50.. <Grin>!!! Phil...

27 years, 5 months

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new stuff

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Cameron Kaiser <ckaiser(a)oa.ptloma.edu> >::Greetings Dyslexia of Borg, I am Typo from the planet Vulcan. >Hmm, my sister and I came up with Damn, you figured it out... I'm your long lost sister... ;)

27 years, 5 months

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new stuff

by dogas＠leading.net

err.... mcs-4, mcs-8, of course... I am Dyslexia of Borg, fusistance is retile. Your ass will be laminated. ;) - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 5 months

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Who invented the internet?

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well, if you mean the rescue I think you mean, it's actually in the Indian Ocean. That's where the Challenger went down. The fuel tank and solids (booster rockets) went down near Florida, but the Challenger went down on the far side of Africa if memory serves me. I, along with others, had the job of analyzing the potential failure modes in the engine controller in the wake of the Challenger accident. It's quite an interesting device, considering it's made of really old and simple TTL logic with plated wire memory (faster, though not much, than core of that generation). It had no stack, and therefore a different way of "calling" a subroutine, requiring you to have your program store in read/write memory. This ultimately meant that flaws masked by the redundancy of the system could become "inherited" from one mission to the next. There were other pitfalls as well. Dick ---------- > From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Who invented the internet? > Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 11:53 AM > > On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > It's somewhat divergent from the current topic, but it might interest some > > to know that the Honeywell '516 is the engine control computer which was > > still in use on the space shuttle at the time of the Challenger accident. > > There were two, one redundant, for each engine, of which I believe there > > were three. > > Do I sense a potential rescue mission somewhere off the coast of Florida? > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 02/15/99]

27 years, 5 months

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HP-85 Belts needed

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

On Wednesday, February 17, 1999 3:10 PM, Michael Grigoni [SMTP:msg@computerpro.com] wrote: > Greetings, > > PIC has quoted price and availability for the two HP-85 Calculator belts > as follows: > > > > EPS0175A125N $1.71/ea Stock > > > > > > EPS0080A250N $2.33/ea Stock > > > They have a $50.00 minimum order. Who all wants to join in an order > large enough to justify the minimum? > > Michael Grigoni > Cybertheque Museum > Michael, Are those belts problematic? I have a real nice HP-85 here but, have never really used it. If the belts are likely to deterioriate or fail, I wouldn't mind having an extra set. BTW: If anyone has an extra set of manuals for a HP85, I could sure use them. Of course, I'm willing to pay a _fair_ price. Are there any good on-line resources for HP85 programming and operation? Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

27 years, 5 months

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Free commodore printer

by max82＠surfree.com

I am repeating my offer for a free C-64/C-128(D) -compatible 9-pin dot-matrix printer, an Okidata 120, available for free to anyone in the Boston, MA area. I am also willing to ship it within the continental USA for the price of shipping. It goes to the thrift store this weekend. Thanks. --Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com)

27 years, 5 months

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[OT] Space shuttle explosions and computers

by edick＠idcomm.com

I'm not at all certain about any of the mission details regarding the January 1986 (final) Challenger mission. I will yield to your obviously more accurate and current information. Having known that I'm gradually going soft in the head for some time, I'm not surprised or concerned that don't remember precise details about the final Challenger mission. I am quite certain, however, that the documents and schematics which were given to me as part of a FMEA/CIL team, which was a part of the NASA "shuttle-return-to-flight" mission the following fall, were relating to the Honeywell 516. These were not the main computers, of which there are several, but only the engine controllers, which are configured as redundant pairs, one for each engine. There was talk of a plan on the table at the time to replace these with something smaller and lighter, using semiconductor memory and having other features, but the one which we spent half a year studying, at great expense to the taxpayer, and which was purported to be used as that controller was definitely the Honeywell 516. Perhaps there were other more popular models of that number, but the one on the shuttles at that time were all of this type. These were NOT the main computers on the shuttle, but rather the dedicated main engine controllers. The IBM numbers to which you refer do sound to me like the main computers. Analysis of the engine controllers, however, is what our assigned task was, and that's what I remember. I don't suppose they would have had 50 or so of us working for six months on something that wasn't involved. It's conceivable, however, that there are several versions of this processor. It doesn't seem reasonable that they would have used two of a processor weighing what you attribute to the 516. 2.5 cu meters, however, is a small room, and sounds like approximately a 6' rack cabinet, or maybe even a pair. Are you perhaps including a bit of packaging hardware? What's used to control the engine is the processor. The technology is of the same vintage as the DEC PDP-8's I've seen, with hand-wired backplanes and built from ttl-msi. This one used plated wire memory, since that was a mite faster (1 us) than the core of the time(1.2 us). Let's see . . . the IBM AP-101S uses 1/40 cu Meter . . . that's a bit less than a cu. ftm 30 kg and 550 watts. . . . seems reasonable. That they later used one of its IOP's to replace the old model in use on the Challenger and other shuttles at the time seems reasonable as well. Unlike the defense industry and certainly unlike the commercial computer industry, the domain of flight hardware is controlled by "proven-reliable" hardware, so the "current" technology of the time, and the shuttle was designed in the late '60's and built in the '70's, was not the technology of choice. What's more, the engines in use in the early-mid '80's were hand-tweaked hangar queens, not some sort of production hardware. The controllers used "proven" software, which reflected all the caveats of the NASA policy of the time. It's not always the latest technology that you want on your 2-billion-dollar aircraft, but rather the most reliable that does the job. Dick ---------- > From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: [OT] Space shuttle explosions and computers (was Re: Who invented the internet?) > Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 9:49 PM > > Allison wrote: > > FYI the speed attained at > > that point is some 3600mph far from orbital velocity. > > I'm not sure how to parse that. Are you saying that it was traveling at > 3600 MPH, which is far from orbital velocity (i.e., a missing comma), or > that it was travelling at 3600 MPH less than orbital velocity? > > (In any case, the use of the word velocity is incorrect. Velocity is > a vector, as I had drilled into me in Physics class.) > > The NASA reference I posted earlier claims: > At this point in its trajectory, while traveling at a Mach number > of 1.92 at an altitude of 46,000 feet, the Challenger was totally > enveloped in the explosive burn. > > The best information I have suggests that the Space Shuttle does not > use the Honeywell DDP-516 in any capacity, and that engine control is performed > by the some of the IOP processors that are part of the IBM AP-101S > computers. The entire AP-101S, including both the GPC and IOP, occupies > about 0.025 cubic meters, masses about 30 Kg, and consumes about 550 W. > A DDP-516 occupies about 2.5 cubic meters, masses about 250 Kg, and consumes > over 1000 W. > > The AP-101S replaced an earlier AP-101B computer that was twice the size. > Anybody know where I can find one for my collection? :-)

27 years, 5 months

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Who invented the internet?

by edick＠idcomm.com

I guess we'll have to see what information is available on the net about that January 1986 event. I do seem to recall that the flight was about 2 minutes 10+ seconds underway when the ship hit the fan, so to speak. The entire trip into orbit only required about 8.5 minutes, so they were a fair piece of the way along. My recollection is that they were searching off Florida for the boosters, but in the Indian Ocean to recover the shuttle and the bodies. There was a lot of talk about the 8 minutes or so that it took for the shuttle to hit the water after things went bad. I could be mistaken, of course. It wouldn't be the first time . . . Dick ---------- > From: Ward D. Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Who invented the internet? > Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 3:48 PM > > On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Well, if you mean the rescue I think you mean, it's actually in the Indian > > Ocean. That's where the Challenger went down. The fuel tank and solids > > (booster rockets) went down near Florida, but the Challenger went down on > > the far side of Africa if memory serves me. > > The Challenger was nowhere near suborbital when the explosion took > place. Everything landed off the coast of Florida. > -- > Ward Griffiths > "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then > you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor

27 years, 5 months

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Who invented the internet?

by lundo＠interport.net

Doug wrote: > I've heard that UCLA hosted Arpanet node #1 (I've also heard that BBN was > supposed to host node #0, but their IMP didn't work), but I've never heard > of Kleinrock.... There's a very entertaining and informative article by "Mr. Protocol" in SunExpert magazine Feb 98 entitled "Mr. Protocol Looks Back" at <http://sun.expert.com/C1/SE.C1.FEB.98.pdf>. Well worth reading, all about early Internet history and the machines in play. (Check out the rest of Mr. P's archives at the parent link[s]!). -- +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Robert Lund | "So many good ones, and so many bad ones; + + lundo(a)interport.net | that's what you get for trying." + + New York City | Dutch Schultz, last words + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

27 years, 5 months

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Kleinrock

by nerdware＠laidbak.com

I just went to Len's homepage, and from what I can tell, based on the research and reading that I've done, the story as put forth in his bio is accurate. Licklider had forseen a worldwide (actually, galactic) network where information was accessible to anyone, anywhere. Kleinrock did describe how packet switching would work in his dissertation. Plus, the UCLA team was under his command. ARPA was under Bob Taylor (later to run PARC), but Taylor's job was to assemble the people to make it happen, and Kleinrock was one of them. If you get a chance to see the PBS series, Kleinrock is interviewed several times. You probably don't know his name because most of the guys from ARPA and PARC are unknowns. They are responsible for inventing most of today's computer technology, but other guys were much better at exploiting their inventions and assuming credit for them (not to mention anybill's name.....) Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware(a)laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware

27 years, 5 months

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Floppy/Parallel Ports

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> Does anyone know of any early (pre-1990) computers, other than the early > Toshibas, that used the parallel port to access an external floppy drive > (or other external storage device)? Thanks! (-: Roger, that's a very foolish thing to say on Classiccmp. For startres: An "Early" computer does _not_ mean "pre-1990". More like "pre-1960". Lots of pre-1990 machines used a parallel port to talk to floppy disk drives. HP and Commodore machines used HPIB/GPIB for example. And yes, that was the printer port on those machines too. Need I go on? Philip. :-) (I think someone else has already given a sensible answer, so I have no qualms about posting the above)

27 years, 5 months

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HP-85 Belts needed

by msg＠computerpro.com

Thanks to all for your responses so far. We now have enough interest to place an order for eleven sets of belts. I'll wait another few days to collect any other responses to get a final count. > Greetings, > > PIC has quoted price and availability for the two HP-85 > Calculator > belts > as follows: > > > EPS0175A125N $1.71/ea Stock > > > > > > EPS0080A250N $2.33/ea Stock > > They have a $50.00 minimum order. Who all wants to join in an > order > large enough to justify the minimum? > Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum

27 years, 5 months

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new stuff

by dogas＠leading.net

Wow, UPS delivered 3 hrs ago and I'm still trying to dig myself out of the pile. You gotta love those 145lb UPS deliveries. My Thinker Toys S100 homebrew system came in with several little supprises. The basic system is a Wunderbuss with 2 8" Shugarts, 2 exetron Stringy Drives (with 30 cartridges), and 13 s100 cards, 1 wirewrap, and one card that's a I don't know what... Pictures and restoration log publishing pending. Some of the cooler docs include Intel MSC-4 Micro Computer Set Users Manual Jan 1972 Rev. 1 ;) !!! "" Sept 1974 Rev. 5 Intel MSC-8 8008 8-bit Parallel Central Processor Unit Users Manual March 1973 Rev. 3 Processor Technology Extended Cassette BASIC Users Manual Jan 1978 Gotta go, I hear the siren song. More later - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 5 months

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Who invented the internet?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Well, if you mean the rescue I think you mean, it's actually in the Indian <Ocean. That's where the Challenger went down. The fuel tank and solids <(booster rockets) went down near Florida, but the Challenger went down on <the far side of Africa if memory serves me. Challenger went down near Florida as well The failure mode was the Solids burnt through the Orings joining the segments and cooked the main tank, boom. <"calling" a subroutine, requiring you to have your program store in <read/write memory. This ultimately meant that flaws masked by the <redundancy of the system could become "inherited" from one mission to the <next. There were other pitfalls as well. Can't see why, RW memory lost it's contents on power down and the plated wire was rom for the most part. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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Looking for two BC08-J cables

by dburrows＠netpath.net

Sorry I don't have any paper tapes here so I know I don't have the cable. Most later DEC cables I probably have however. Dan >BC08-J > >> >> I probably do but where are they used. I don't keep my cables sorted by >> part #. > >They're the cables that link a PC05 paper tape punch to a PC11 interface >card (or at least that's what Jay wants them for). 40 pin Berg on one >end, 36 pin PCB on the other. > >> Dan > >-tony >

27 years, 5 months

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Fwd: Remark and Sextant

by cfandt＠netsync.net

Hey folks, Here's some Heath User Group magazines and a third-party Heath computer publication. They cover the H8, H89/Z90, H/Z100 and some H/Z150 series machines. If interested give him a shout. --Chris >Priority: normal >X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) >Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:10:01 -0800 >Reply-To: "Kennan H. Hollingsworth" <kholly(a)SPRYNET.COM> >Sender: Heathkit Owners and Collectors List <HEATH(a)LISTSERV.TEMPE.GOV> >From: "Kennan H. Hollingsworth" <kholly(a)SPRYNET.COM> >Subject: Remark and Sextant >To: HEATH(a)LISTSERV.TEMPE.GOV > >I have many REMARK magazines from years past that I have >saved and no longer can find room for. Anyone interested? If so, >respond and I will list what issues I have. Would prefer to get rid of >them all at once. > >Also have a large number of SEXTANT magazines. Again, if >interested I will list them. >Ken Hollingsworth <kholly(a)sprynet.com> > >--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- >To subscribe: listserv(a)listserv.tempe.gov >and in body: subscribe HEATH yourfirstname yourlastname >To unsubscribe: listserv(a)listserv.tempe.gov >and in body: signoff HEATH >Archives for HEATH: http://www.tempe.gov/archives >--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa

27 years, 5 months

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HP-85 Belts needed

by msg＠computerpro.com

Greetings, PIC has quoted price and availability for the two HP-85 Calculator belts as follows: > EPS0175A125N $1.71/ea Stock > > > EPS0080A250N $2.33/ea Stock They have a $50.00 minimum order. Who all wants to join in an order large enough to justify the minimum? Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum

27 years, 5 months

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FSOT: Apple IIc+

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I have a good working Apple IIC Plus with the Apple monochrome monitor and an Apple 5 1/4" external disk drive that I don't need. I'll take offers for it in either cash or trade. If I don't get any fair offers, it's off to E-OverPay. I'm interested in S-100 stuff, NorthStar OS software, and/or HP computers or calculators. Joe

27 years, 5 months

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Floppy/Parallel Ports

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:39 AM 2/17/99 +0000, you wrote: >> Seeing as he said 'the parallel port' I would assume he meant _THE_ >> parallel port as in 'the D-25 female connector with the pinout that was > >In which case you're restricting it to PCs and clones only I would think. Okay, I'll try to be more clear... 8^) (And yes, I know "early" is the 50's around here. 8^) What I'm researching is computers that used the Centronics parallel port to access a floppy drive or other storage device. Mostly interested in PC's and compatibles, or computers that use a "PC-compatible" centronics port (like the Atari ST). It needs to be controlled by software only (no A/B/PRT switch like some Toshibas) and ideally needs no re-configuration before switching between drive and printer (or better still, offers a pass-through for the printer.) HP-IB/GPIB/IEEE-488 is interesting, and somewhat related, but not entirely relevant; same for SASI & SCSI. Also, anything after 1990 or so is too new. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 5 months

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Anyone have any docs or software for a HP 125 CPM computer?

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I just got a HP 125 today. Does anyone have anything for it? Joe

27 years, 5 months

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question about viruses

by charlesII＠nwonline.net

Could any one point me to a source for the history of viruses and computer worms. I'm doing a recearch paper and I'm looking for sources. Thanks CharlesII(a)nwohio.net

27 years, 5 months

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Looking for two BC08-J cables

by dburrows＠netpath.net

I probably do but where are they used. I don't keep my cables sorted by part #. Dan -----Original Message----- From: Jay West <jlwest(a)tseinc.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 4:53 PM Subject: Looking for two BC08-J cables >Would anyone happen to have two BC08-J cables lying around? > >I'm in need :) > >Thanks! > >Jay West >

27 years, 5 months

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HP-85 Belts needed

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 12:45 PM 2/17/99 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Michael Grigoni wrote: > >> PIC has quoted price and availability for the two HP-85 Calculator belts >> as follows: > >Are we talking about the same HP85 that's the size of an Apple ][? Yes. How >would one wear that on a belt? You wouldn't. It's belts for the integral printer. Joe > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 02/15/99] > >

27 years, 5 months

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Looking for two BC08-J cables

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

Would anyone happen to have two BC08-J cables lying around? I'm in need :) Thanks! Jay West

27 years, 5 months

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FWD from alt.folklore.computers

by Anthony.Eros＠digital.com

Make that a _cancer_ charity... -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Eros Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 3:31 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: FWD from alt.folklore.computers Possibly, but I remember seeing an eBay auction last year that was structured in a similar way. Winning bid went to a cancel charity (I think...) -- Tony -----Original Message----- From: SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com [SMTP:SUPRDAVE@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 3:13 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: FWD from alt.folklore.computers In a message dated 2/17/99 11:48:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, steverob(a)hotoffice.com writes: << My wife's aunt just cleaned out her closet and gave us a digi-comp 1 in excellent shape with all the manuals, box, etc. I see from previous discussion that this is a beloved object to many of you.Since I don't want to profit on her (pre)spring cleaning, I would be happy to ship the unit to the first person who would be willing to make a $500 donation to the charity of my choosing (for a 40% bracket, that is a $300 net expense).I will be happy to confirm contents and quality of the unit with _serious_ purchasers. Since this is a charitable donation, I will not go down on the price (if no buyers emerge by March 1st, it's off to ebay). It will be sold first come, first served basis.Please, no haggling, and I hope that we can find a nice home for this little red computer, while supporting a worthy charity as well. Best regards,Lionel >> i'll be willing to bet one of my old computers that any of the ebay profit wouldnt goto charity...

27 years, 5 months

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FWD from alt.folklore.computers

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

> On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com wrote: >> steverob(a)hotoffice.com writes: >> << My wife's aunt just cleaned out her closet and gave us a digi-comp 1 in >> excellent shape with all the manuals, box, etc. I see from previous > > "All the manuals"? There's the rather slender "Manual" and the > assembly instructions. That's all that ever came with mine, long gone. Maybe she bought the other manuals - there was a manual of detailed explanations of the various "experiments" (cost: $1), a "Digi-Comp Romps" booklet of games and clever tricks, and possibly another book of additional serious experiments. My Digicomp also came with a brochure for the other ESR products: Digi-comp 2, Dr. Nim, and Think-a-dot. --Larry Groebe (new! webpage for Digicomp fans: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/friendsofdigicomp)

27 years, 5 months

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FWD from alt.folklore.computers

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 2/17/99 11:48:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, steverob(a)hotoffice.com writes: << My wife's aunt just cleaned out her closet and gave us a digi-comp 1 in excellent shape with all the manuals, box, etc. I see from previous discussion that this is a beloved object to many of you.Since I don't want to profit on her (pre)spring cleaning, I would be happy to ship the unit to the first person who would be willing to make a $500 donation to the charity of my choosing (for a 40% bracket, that is a $300 net expense).I will be happy to confirm contents and quality of the unit with _serious_ purchasers. Since this is a charitable donation, I will not go down on the price (if no buyers emerge by March 1st, it's off to ebay). It will be sold first come, first served basis.Please, no haggling, and I hope that we can find a nice home for this little red computer, while supporting a worthy charity as well. Best regards,Lionel >> i'll be willing to bet one of my old computers that any of the ebay profit wouldnt goto charity...

27 years, 5 months

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FWD from alt.folklore.computers

by Anthony.Eros＠digital.com

Possibly, but I remember seeing an eBay auction last year that was structured in a similar way. Winning bid went to a cancel charity (I think...) -- Tony -----Original Message----- From: SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com [SMTP:SUPRDAVE@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 3:13 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: FWD from alt.folklore.computers In a message dated 2/17/99 11:48:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, steverob(a)hotoffice.com writes: << My wife's aunt just cleaned out her closet and gave us a digi-comp 1 in excellent shape with all the manuals, box, etc. I see from previous discussion that this is a beloved object to many of you.Since I don't want to profit on her (pre)spring cleaning, I would be happy to ship the unit to the first person who would be willing to make a $500 donation to the charity of my choosing (for a 40% bracket, that is a $300 net expense).I will be happy to confirm contents and quality of the unit with _serious_ purchasers. Since this is a charitable donation, I will not go down on the price (if no buyers emerge by March 1st, it's off to ebay). It will be sold first come, first served basis.Please, no haggling, and I hope that we can find a nice home for this little red computer, while supporting a worthy charity as well. Best regards,Lionel >> i'll be willing to bet one of my old computers that any of the ebay profit wouldnt goto charity...

27 years, 5 months

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Who invented the internet?

by edick＠idcomm.com

It's somewhat divergent from the current topic, but it might interest some to know that the Honeywell '516 is the engine control computer which was still in use on the space shuttle at the time of the Challenger accident. There were two, one redundant, for each engine, of which I believe there were three. Dick ---------- > From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Who invented the internet? > Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 1:36 AM > > On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Doug wrote: > > > I was searching the web for a picture of a Honeywell IMP (DDP-516), and I > > found one sitting on the home page of Leonard Kleinrock, self-proclaimed > > Inventor of the Internet: > > http://millennium.cs.ucla.edu/LK/Inet/birth.html > > He certainly has an interesting story for such a major contribution to > computing since I've never heard of him either. > > Get this: > > "In this work, he developed the basic principles of packet switching, thus > providing the fundamental underpinnings for that technology." > > As far as I know the concept of packet switching was first described by > Paul Baran of the Rand Corporation (see a timeline at > http://www.unc.edu/courses/jomc050/pioneers3.html. Interestingly enough > the name "Kleinrock" does not show up anywhere in this list). > > But this guy certainly takes the liberty of practically taking full credit > for single-handedly inventing the internet. > > How about this: > > "More recently, Kleinrock has taken the leading role in the new technology > of Nomadic Computing and Communications; the idea is to create a > technology that will support the nomadic user in his computing and > communication needs as he travels from place to place." > > This has already been pioneered by Steven Roberts and his BEHEMOTH (see > http://www.doitsports.com/biketour/tolman/nomad.htm). > > Does this dude have an original idea? > > This guy seems to like to take credit for stuff other people invented. I > hate guys like that. Maybe this is a scam web site like that one that was > posted last year about the one dude who purportedly single-handedly > invented the personal computer and the GUI (didn't that guy also claim to > have invented the internet?) > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 02/15/99]

27 years, 5 months

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FWD from alt.folklore.computers

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

Found this in another news group. Please reply to the original poster not this group... <CLIP> DIGI-COMP 1 FOR SALE My wife's aunt just cleaned out her closet and gave us a digi-comp 1 in excellent shape with all the manuals, box, etc. I see from previous discussion that this is a beloved object to many of you.Since I don't want to profit on her (pre)spring cleaning, I would be happy to ship the unit to the first person who would be willing to make a $500 donation to the charity of my choosing (for a 40% bracket, that is a $300 net expense).I will be happy to confirm contents and quality of the unit with _serious_ purchasers. Since this is a charitable donation, I will not go down on the price (if no buyers emerge by March 1st, it's off to ebay). It will be sold first come, first served basis.Please, no haggling, and I hope that we can find a nice home for this little red computer, while supporting a worthy charity as well. Best regards,Lionel zuckier(a)aecom.yu.edu </CLIP> Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

27 years, 5 months

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Floppy/Parallel Ports

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<In which case you're restricting it to PCs and clones only I would think. < <The PC printer port has 12 outputs and 5 inputs IIRC. But for a _printer_ <you really only need to have the 8 data lines, strobe and either ack or <busy. The others can normally be ignored. But non-printer PC parallel <port devices often use all 17 lines for whatever purpose (e.g. reading a <nybble in on 4 of the 5 inputs) The implmentationwas full centronics parallel. The extra inputs are PAPER OUT and a few other status indicators. <Before that, centronics ports tended to be the 36 pin amphenol connector. <But there were other printer port standards as well - like Data Products <that was used on some line printers. And of course serial printer ports <(RS232, current loop, etc). Commonly it was 34 or 40 pin card edge or the amphenol that we see on the back of the printer but 37 pin DB connectors were used as well. In the olden days there were two common and nearly similar parallel ports. Data Products (also used for DEC LP25/26/27) and Centronics. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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Sanyo 550

by musicman38＠mindspring.com

>At 11:11 AM 2/15/99 -0500, Phil wrote: >>Purchased a Sanyo MBC 550 today at the local thrift for $3.50.. > Then you paid about $3.50 too much! >>Just the CPU, no monitor or Keyboard.. > OOPS! The keyboard is special, only the Sanyo one will work on the 550. >>Anyone know how many of them were produced ? > > Lots and lots and lots. I used to see them all over. > > Joe Joe, I know that you a special love for these machines (Sanyo 550) I have read your comments on the forum on the one you soaked so much money in trying to get it to run.. (HeHe)!!! Maybe they are worth collecting in the fact that they could possibly be the most "Incompatible" "Compatible" early DOS machine ever produced.. <HeHe>!! Anyway if they are so plentiful in Orlando how about getting me a Keyboard and a monitor for it.. <Grin>!! I still have some have some change left from the $3.50 I paid for the CPU... Phil... BTW: The Clerk at the Thrift store was convinced it was a VCR, and now that I look at it, it does look very much like a VCR.. Same size, Same color (Metal Gray / Black Front).. OK that makes it collectable Right !!!! "In the year 2525 (If man is still alive, if woman can survive) Commodore 64 computers will still be plentiful and routinely sold at Garage Sales"

27 years, 5 months

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[Fwd: Antique Unix Computers]

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Forwarded from misc.forsale.computers.other.systems Replies to original poster, not to me or the list please. -jim

27 years, 5 months

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M SoKit 68

by amichael＠nortelnetworks.com

I've never heard of the M(icro)SOKit 68, but I'm wondering how many other enterprising teachers designed their own small systems for training? I have a "U of T 6809" board, a teaching aid developed by the University of Toronto in the early 80s and manufactured for them by a Toronto company. At one time they were even advertised nationally in one of the Canadian hobby electronics magazines. It was a single-board system with a monitor/debugger in eprom, and you'd run it from a terminal. You could develop programs on-board, or download 6809 code from a host system and run it on the card. Does anyone else have one of these? Arlen Michaels On Sat, 13 Feb 1999, Lawrence Walker" <lwalker(a)mail.interlog.com> wrote: > In 1983 at the end of taking a digital tech course at a community > college > here in Toronto at George Brown CC, I spent about a month assembling and > debugging a trainer kit that my prof was marketing, similar but more > sophisticated than the Heathkit ET34400. It was called a M(icro)SOKit 68. > It was based , of course, like the ET3400 on the M6800 CPU. Does anyone > have > one of these out there ? It was geared to teach students about micros by > building their own micro. I know he sold a number of them, but don't know > how > many. I have the manual, parts #s, etc. if anyone is interested. Included > in > the manual is a couple of pages of layouts obviously meant to be > photocopied > and etched. > > ciao larry > lwalker(a)interlog.com > -- Arlen Michaels amichael(a)nortelnetworks.com

27 years, 5 months

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