- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

HP3000/2000/1000 emulators?

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

in case you missed my post on classiccmp, Jeff Moffat wrote an emulator for the 2100. Don't recall the URL, but search yahoo & such for 2100 and you should find it. Jay West -----Original Message----- From: Arfon Gryffydd <arfonrg(a)texas.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 8:11 AM Subject: HP3000/2000/1000 emulators? >Anyone know of any HP1000/2000/3000 emulators (for a PC running Linux?) >

27 years, 4 months

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HP 2000 Time Shared BASIC Memories

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

Jim wrote... >Ah, yes... I remember it well. As to its fate, I can offer a few more >tidbits... > >The METCOM system, known as "Darlene" to its friends, met its final >(publically anyway) end at a sealed bid county auction in the early 1980s. Our high school HP2000 started out as the 2000E variety, then was upgraded to 2000C', and finally to 2000 Access. It's lovable name was HUEY. Right next to it was our other high school machine, a PDP-11/03 running RT-11 with TSX+ extensions. It's name was DUEY. (I have already gotten several machines of mine up and running RT-11 with TSX+). Gee - I wonder what they would have named a third system if we had it ;) Jay

27 years, 4 months

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HP 2000 Time Shared BASIC Memories

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

Rick; Great to hear some stories about my personal obsession - TSB. I know of only one TSB system still up and running - a friend of mine in CA. I still don't have mine up but I'm getting awfully close - all I need is a 2748 paper tape reader and a 12920 mux set. I found the paper tape reader but they want $650 for it. Pound Sand I said ;) Yes, there is an emulator for the 2100 series cpu. Check out Jeff Moffat's website. Don't remember the URL, but search yahoo & such for "2100" and you'll find it. He has an emulator that runs on dos. It is supposed to run on Unix, but - it has some real problems with FreeBSD. Another user on the list here was kind enough to fix it up for freebsd and send me a diff file. I've got it here if you want it. The emulator supports most of the 2100 instruction set (or subset of the 21MX M series - however you look at it). I haven't yet dug into the emulator - eventually I will for sure - but for now I'm obsessed with getting the "real thing" up and running. As I recall from a quick first blush look - the emulator didn't have any real support for emulation of the select code addressed devices - ie - no 13210 disk controller, no 12920 muxes, etc.. but jeff has done a lot of great hard work on it so it's a fantastic starting point. On a side note - I'm still waiting but recently reconfirmed that I'm receiving a complete SOURCE code listing for TSB (2000F varietry) both the I/O and system processor portions. Then we can not only run it but change it (and perhaps fix that NAM-, issue <grin>). Another person recently offered me a copy of the "cupertino gold tapes". This is source for every version of TSB, RTE, DOS, etc.... That isn't a firm deal yet but you can imagine my anticipation if it works out :) You also queried about if HP still made TSB available in any form. I've got some pretty close ties to HP - the answer is a resounding NO. I even went so far as to plead my case to their Historical Archives administrator. There's not a shred left. But eventually I DID find some load tapes (both punched and magnetic). See ya! Jay West -----Original Message----- From: Rick Bensene <rickb(a)pail.enginet.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 10:57 AM Subject: HP 2000 Time Shared BASIC Memories >Jay West (in a wonderfully informative message about HP systems) wrote: > >> Generally the HP2000 designation meant the system was running TSB >> (Timeshare >> BASIC) which is my particular target of collecting since it was the first >> computer system I ever learned. If the same hardware was running DOS/RTE, >> etc. is was called an HP 1000. >> >So, does anyone out there know of, or have, any of the HP 2000 Timeshared >BASIC systems *running*? This is what I learned on also. >The county educational services district purchased an original HP 2000B >TSB system. Over the years, it was upgraded to a C, then C', then E, F, and >finally ACCESS. The last I know of the system being in service was in the >early >1980's. I've tried to track down what happened to it, but every lead has >resulted >in a dead end. > >I was able to visit the 'computer center' where the machine was kept (more >on this in the story below). It was >a little hole-in-the-wall building about 5 miles from my house. I think >that >it was running in the 2000C configuration when I saw it. It used dual >CPU's (don't remember which ones). According to the operator, one CPU >handled >the I/O stuff (the system had, as I recall, 32 ports, most connected to >Bell 103 modems), and the other 'ran' the BASIC environment. The system had >a washing-machine sized disk drive with removable multi-platter disk packs. >There was also a rack/cabinet about the same size as the rack that the >two CPU's were in that contained a fast drum memory that was used for >swapping store. > >Does anyone know if HP still can make available the TSB code? It would be >TOTALLY amazing to get ahold of it, write and emulator for the CPU and >associated hardware on something like a PII 450 running Linux, and *run* TSB >again. >It would be a big project, but chances of finding the real mccoy >seem pretty unlikely nowadays. > >Here's a recollection for y'all on the 2000C Timeshared BASIC system. > >One day I was reading the TSB manual (wish I still had it, but I think it >ended up coming un-bound because I used it so much, and I think it got >tossed away years ago when I was moving) in an effort to learn any new >tidbits of information. > >On the page for the "NAM" command, which was used to attach a name to the >current program in working storage, I noted that it said to NEVER name a >program >with a single comma; i.e. NAM-, > >I wondered why this would be. So, I wandered into the terminal room at >our high school, and dialed up the machine (I still remember the phone >number!) >and logged in. I typed in a little program, and typed NAM-, and pressed >RETURN. A linefeed popped back at me. I thought..."well, that was >exciting". > >So, I typed LIS and there was my little program as expected. I then >did a CATLIST to dump out my user directory. The CATLIST came back empty. >This was startling, as I *thought* I had a whole bunch of stuff in my >directory. >I then typed the command that would tell you how much (I think it was TIME) >connect time you'd used this session, and how much of your monthly time >quota >you had left. The command came back with really weird answers...and, it >came back with different numbers each time I ran the command. This was VERY >strange. So, I logged off, and re-logged back in, and didn't type NAM-, >and did a CATLIST. There was all my stuff. I typed in NAM-, then did a >CATLIST... >and all my stuff was gone. > >I then thought...I wonder if the NAM-, magically transports you to a >different >file area. So, I typed up a little program, gave it a name with the NAM- >command (which seemed to take, and not affect 'where' I was), and SAVed it. >I did a CATLIST. There it was. The interesting thing was that the CATLIST >(which I hadn't really noticed before) said that I had some tremendous >amount >of storage blocks remaining. > >Upon noticing this, I thought I'd try CREating a big file, just to see how >much >space I really had available to me. I issued a command to create a 1000 >block >file..which was a pretty good-sized file, as I remember. I typed in the >command, and pressed RETURN. There were three other TTY's in our computer >lab, and all were occupied by other students at the time. When I pushed >RETURN, >all the other TTY's quit printing for a second or two...just like the >machine >had crashed (which happened from time to time), but as soon as my terminal >printed it's acknowledging linefeed, they started right back up where they >left off. >Hmmmm... > >So, how about a 10000 block file? Well, that took the system a while to >create...and everyone else was 'dead' during that time...no character echo, >output 'froze' at the point where I pressed RETURN on my terminal. > >I did a CATLIST...and sure enough, there was my little program, my 1000 >block >file, and my 10000 block file. I did a KILL on my 10000 block file, and >that took a bit, and everyone else again froze during the KILL operation. >Too weird. I left it alone for then, and called a friend that night that >went to another school that used the same system, and told him to make sure >that he was logged on at 11AM the next morning, and observe. > >At 11AM the next morning, I was logged in, and had done the magic NAM-,. >I asked the system to create a 100000 block file, pressing the RETURN >on the command at 11AM sharp...which *appeared* to make >the system crash, at least from my end. All the other terminals were >'dead'. >About 2 minutes into my create, my terminal (a good old TTY ASR33), along >with >everyone else's chattered a few garbage characters, like these beasts did >when >the carrier dropped. Either the system totally crashed, or the operator >had killed it to reboot. I was a little scared at that point, as I figured >it >was all caused by me. I didn't do any more tinkering after the system came >back >up that day. > >My friend called me that evening, and said "Did you do that?". So, I knew >that whatever I was doing, it was system-wide! He wanted to know how I >did >it, but I didn't tell. > >I did a few more experiments with this strangeness, but never 'crashed' it >again, >just playing around to see how much resource this 'warped' place that NAM-, >too me to could consume. In this space, I had a larger working storage set, >had virtually unlimited file storage space (I wrote a little program that >would CREate lots and lots of small files), and unlimited connect time. >It seemed that NAM-, sent you off to the 'system overhead' area...where all >resources that weren't in use were available to whomever had executed the >NAM-, command. > >After tinkering with it for a while, I decided I should tell my instructor >about >it. The instructor and I were very close, and I figured this was something >that >could cause problems if the word got out about it. He was amazed..and >immediately >called the operator of the system, and arranged a meeting so we could tell >them >what was going on. We arranged a meeting in an evening after 'prime time' >so I could demonstrate this. The operator was stunned...it would be >terrible >if the word about this got out...people could 'wedge' the machine pretty >much at will. Apparently, a call was made to HP the next morning, and there >were >HP folks there the next day, and within a couple of days, the NAM-, command >would result in something like "ILLEGAL FORMAT". > >According to our system operator, from what was told to her by the >HP engineers, was that the the NAM-, command was a purposely written-in >'back door' that was put into the TSB code. It had to have been known >about >by HP, because of the mention of not using a name of ',' in the manual. >In any case, the back door was closed, at least on our system. > >I made a point of checking, when we upgraded to the C', E, F, and ACCESS >systems >to check the NAM-, to see if it worked. It never did again. > >Sorry for the long message, but I thought it'd be of some interest to those >who used these wonderful old systems. > >Best wishes, >Rick Bensene > >

27 years, 4 months

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Looking for RT-11 Documentation

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I have absolutely no RT-11 documentation, although I have two systems >running it (both 11/23s). Does anyone have any online documentation on >the command language, configuration, device drivers, sysgen, etc? I'm >fumbling around without it. There is no on-line documentation... if there is, I'm sure Mentec would be a little bothered by it. There might be HELP available on the system, depending on the version and whether all the required files are still there... Try 'SHOW CONFIG' or 'SHOW ALL' to see if you get anything (this actually runs the program RESORC.SAV from SY:) The command language is DCP (Digital Command Language), and is pretty consistent from one system to another, modulo those things which aren't supported... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 5 months

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Looking for RT-11 Documentation

by mbg＠world.std.com

>The command language is DCP (Digital Command Language), and is That's *DCL*... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 5 months

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Hans Franke?

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

I think he is on a business trip; I do not have any other contact information, but could try to get some if urgently needed. John G. Zabolitzky

27 years, 5 months

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3 1/2" boot disk for Spectravideo.738 computer (fwd)

by donm＠cts.com

Can anyone help this chap out on his quest for a system disk for the Spectravideo.738? And, perhaps, he will send me a copy also. Please info me on your reply. Thanks! - don ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:44:01 +0100 From: Arnfinn M. Manders <arnfinnm(a)c2i.net> Reply-To: <@c2i.net> To: donm(a)crash.cts.com Subject: 3 1/2" boot disk for Spectraviedeo.738 computer Hi Don Trevor Gowen Suggested that I might contact you regarding a 3 1/2" boot disk for my Spectravideo-738 portable computer. The disk has the following specifications: Single side Soft sector IBM MFM format 80 tracks double density 9 sectors/track 360 Kbytes formatted capacity Since this is a UK made machine, and the company is still in bussiness as Logic 3 International Ltd., I figured that there may be a chance that there are a few collectors in the the UK that may have this machine in their collection. Can you give me a lead to someone that may be able to supply me with a disk? The address of the company is Logic 3 International Unit 27, Norhfield Industrial Estate Beresford Ave., Wembley Middelsex HAQ 1NW Phone:0181 9022211 Best regards from the cold and dark Norway Arnfinn

27 years, 5 months

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Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Dwight Elvey <elvey(a)hal.com> >Hi Mike > The 1101 was a 256x1 part 2102 is a 1Kx1 part. I'm sure >the pinouts would be similar but exactly what I don't know. >2101 is a 256x4. I think all of these have seperate input >and outputs, unlike the 2111 that has a bidirectional I/O. Thanks Dwight. There is a good article in Kilobaud #1, "How Memory Works" that features the 2102.... It shows the chip's 1K bits as a 32x32 'memory matrix' addressable in a row(5 bit) x column(5 bit) format. - Mike:dogas@leading.net

27 years, 5 months

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Tektronix 4051 magic mode found!

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>> >> Try "Exec". I don't have any details of how to use it, sorry. Let me know >> what you find out. >> > > Hmmm...this brings back some memories. From my recollection, this > statement accepted a string argument. The character string supplied > was coded in a special pseudo-hexadecimal: > > 0="0", 1="1", 2="2", 3="3", 4="4", 5="5", 6="6", 7="7" > 8="8", 9="9", a=":", b=";" c="<", d="=", e=">", f="?" > > For example, to represent the hex sequence 6e7f391d, the string would be > "6>7?391=" > > Each two characters represent a byte. > > Now, using this method, you could 'code' 6800 machine code instructions. > > The EXEC statement would store the bytes supplied in the string argument > as a linear sequence of machine code, and cause a jump to the segment > of code. I don't recall if it was JMP'd to, or JSR'd to...and don't > remember any of the details of how to return from a segment of code > executed with the EXEC statement. Obviously, sending random stuff > to an EXEC statement could wedge the machine up. > > I remember that EXEC was used frequently by folks who were experts > with the machine (and had magic lists of the internal runtime > calls) to make game programs and stuff in machine code that would > run much faster than the interpreted BASIC. It also allowed > 'extensions' to BASIC that you could use to do things like PEEK and POKE, > etc. There were conventions for passing variables in and out of > EXEC'd code, so BASIC could be used for 'high level' functions, and > the fast EXEC'd machine code could be used for time-critical or > other functions that were too slow, or too tedious (IE: bit manipulation) > to do in BASIC. > > Hope this helps. It's all from foggy memories..all the fun with 4051's > that I had happened sometime around 1978...21 years ago. I'm amazed > that I can remember ANY of it, given that many times I can't remember > where I put my car keys :-) Rick, you wonderful person! I wonder what this does on the 4052... Something to try when I get home tonight, perhaps. Joe, what was it you were saying about already having picked Rick's brains? (FWIW I am still negotiating a trade with Zane for that ROM) Now what we need are some exec calls for things like peek, poke, reading the joystick port without a "pointer" instruction, and so on. I must step up the pace of my own research... Philip.

27 years, 5 months

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CRT handling Was: Re: It's ALIVE!

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

I'm following the discussion around the danger of household circuits: >> I have worked on various appliances ,electrical devices and/or wiring >> most of my life, close to 50 years, and I have been "bitten" on occasion. >> Of course, except for stoves and dryers, the voltage here is 110 v. I >can >> understand the respect given to 220v.(3wire) and have never worked on >> anything at that voltage without shutting down the circuit. I have also >been >> very cautious about working on anything in damp conditions like in a >> washroom or wet basement. Travelling in some other EU countryes, I've noticed that few household installations have "SAFETY DIFFERENTIAL-CURRENT BREAKERS" (here in Italy are called "Salva-vita=Life-saver), and also from these messages I learn that 220v are used also in the US (surprise) for heavy applications, but again nobody from both side of the ocean refers to the presence, safetiness, of these devices that here are used and mandatory from 15-20 years. I would like to hear from you all what's the situation there, if they are diffused, you use them, are considered (toghether with earthing) enough to avoid danger situations. Ciao Riccardo Romagnoli <chemif(a)mbox.queen.it>

27 years, 5 months

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Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Dwight Elvey <elvey(a)hal.com> >> Anyone know where 1101 RAM chips are for sale (if at all?) BTW, the pinouts for the 2102 is 1-a6,2-a5, 3-r/w, 4-a1, 5-a2,6-a3,7-a4,8-a0,9-gnd,10-vcc,11-din,12-dout,13-ce,14-a9,15-a8,16-a7. So, what's the difference between the 2102 and 1101? 512 bits??? - Mike, dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 5 months

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Tektronix 4051 magic mode found!

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> Philip, > > You need to read the messages more closely. I was the one that found the I probably do, but I don't have time for that :-) In fact I didn't see your message at all! (and I've been getting other Classiccmp messages out of order, but that's nothing new) > EXEC command and posted it here. And yes I had already talked to Rick > about them but he couldn't remember the command or anything about it. I > told you about that conversation. It wasn't till I posted the message about > the EXEC command and Rick read it that it stuck a chord and he remembered > the codes to use with it. Oh, you mean you'd already _tried_ to pick Rick's brains. That's something quite different ;-) ;-) ;-) Philip.

27 years, 5 months

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Amiga 1000 sidecar

by PeksaDO＠cardiff.ac.uk

As the Amiga 1000 has been brought up .... Sometime last year I acquired an Amiga 1000 (Built Feb 1986) and an Amiga 500 but only recently have I got arround to playing with them. The 1000 came with a sidecar unit and by now you should have guessed what I'm about to ask .... I've got the 1000, I've got the sidecar, I've got kickstart and workbench but I haven't got the software required to access the sidecar from the amiga. The sidecar has 448K of memory (256K on motherboard (with space for another 256K) plus 3x64K on a ISA card (with space for another 64K) and a hardcard (which hopefully has an amiga partition). Anyone out there have this software or know where I can get it from, Ta, Doug.

27 years, 5 months

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Xerox 820 family almost complete

by edick＠idcomm.com

Keep in mind that the 820 is from Xerox and the 802/803/806 . . . are from Televideo. The TVI stuff is MUCH more sophisticated in design and packaging, not to mention capabilities. The TVI models used the 1793 and 5.25" DSDD while the XEROX used the 1771 with 8" SSSD . . . Dick ---------- > From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Xerox 820 family almost complete > Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 1:38 PM > > On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > > > At 10:45 PM 2/23/99 -0800, George wrote: > > > > >Is there still a source for 5.25 inch CP/M for the Xerox 820? > > > > > > > Will the CPM for the 803 or one of the other models work on the 820? > > Does anyone know what the capability is between the various Televiedo models? > > No, and for a variety of reasons, Joe. First. the 820 can only read single > density disks and the TeleVideo disks are all double density. Even the > DD 820-II disk uses a single density first track, so it would choke too. > Second, the Xerox 820 disks read all of the first side before even > venturing into the second side, whereas, the TeleVideo machines read the > tracks on both sides of the disk before moving the heads to the nexr > track. Third, there are other format differences also. Different number > of sectors per track, different skew, ... > > As to the Televideo disks, most of the machines can read/write another > models disks. However, there is much less commonality between CP/M > operating systems used. A few will interchange, others will not. > > - don >

27 years, 5 months

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Xerox 820 family almost complete

by edick＠idcomm.com

I only mentioned it because I was occasionally prone to mix them up myself. They had numerous things in common. They were both single-board types of approximately the same size, they both ran CP/M, they both used a Z-80 . . Dick ---------- > From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Xerox 820 family almost complete > Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 1:37 AM > > Dick, > > At 10:46 PM 2/24/99 -0700, you wrote: > >Keep in mind that the 820 is from Xerox and the 802/803/806 . . . are from > >Televideo. > > Yeah, I realized that after Don posted his reply. I don't know what I > was thinking of when I asked that question. > > Joe

27 years, 5 months

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Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hi Sam and all, At 09:03 PM 2/24/99 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Dave Dameron wrote: > >> I have both the AMD and Intel data sheets for the 1101(A). They also may be >> in a early (~1976) Intel data catalog. > >Cool. Is it a couple pages I can convince you to photocopy and mail out >for a future favor? Yes, the Intel data sheet is 4 pages. > >> >Anyone know where 1101 RAM chips are for sale (if at all?) >> >> A few years ago I searched all over the place, not only Halted, James, ACP, >> and any other advertisers in early Byte magagines that might still exist, >> but the "obsolete ic" house resellers too. Remember the ads for "8008 +8 >> 2102's"? I only found about 3 "tubes", but may not ever use them as wire >> wrapping 8 chips give only 256 bytes. How many do you want? >> >> Can't you find this stuff by the barrel and data sheets by the ream there >> in Si valley :-)? ..Like a west coast "Poly Pac's". > >Probably at one of these surplus shops somewhere. I've just never looked >before (never had a need until now). Based on some of the exotic things >I've found over the years, I don't doubt there's at least one of >everything laying around this great Valley somewhere (I know there's an >IBM 360 stashed in someone's garage waiting to be liberated). I think I bought some 1101's at Alltronics in San Jose. Also, for those looking for replacements, the Mostek MK4007 seems functionally and pinout the same, although they call it a dynamic ram? -Dave > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Always hasslin' the man. >

27 years, 5 months

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Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Dave Dameron <ddameron(a)earthlink.net> >For the 8008, the best is the mcs8 microcomputer set users manual. Someone >on the list just found one in the last week or 2. I probably have a That would be me... Let me know is some info is still needed - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 5 months

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Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<We've had to keep our clock set back to preserve our VMS and TCP/IP <and NFS and numerous other packages... < <Anyone have a clue as to how we can preserve the software without <moving to some 'hobby' license of a newer VMS? The hobbiest licensse supports version of VMS from 5.4 through 6.1. It may not however support things like UCX. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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Puyallup event

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

To answer earlier questions... Yes, this is an indoor event. Two floors worth. I've not been to TRW in years, but I have attended Bay Area swap meets such as the Livermore and Foothill events. For those that have done the same, I would guess the size of the Puyallup event as about half again as big as Livermore (conservative). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

27 years, 5 months

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Puyallup swap details

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

The Puyallup swap meet takes place the second Saturday of each year at the site of WA's annual Puyallup Fair (a livestock and amusement thing). Since it is sponsored and put on by one of the local ham radio clubs, it is not dedicated to computer hardware, though I have definitely seen 'classic' stuff show up there. It's primarily electronics: Communications (radio), along with test gear. I regret that we only have room at the house for a single guest (John), and that I have only one additional admission tag to cover him. Anyone else who wants to come, feel free, but you'll be on your own for lodging. The event actually starts Saturday the 13th at 09:00. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

27 years, 5 months

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Numerix VAX manuals

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I picked up a BIG load of manuals today. A lot of them are manuals for the software to accompany the Numerix MARS-432 Array Processor that (I *think*) was used in the VAX 11/760. The books are dated 1984. Numerix is Numerix Corporation located in Newton, Mass. Is anyone familar with this stuff? Anyone need the manuals? Joe

27 years, 5 months

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Puyallup Meet

by jpl15＠netcom.com

I will be happy to partake in a get-together of classiccmpers while there. Count me in. Also: SoCal TRW reminder... this weekend, the 27th Saturday. Another get-together will be help afterward. See previous posting for details or e-mail me privately. Cheers John

27 years, 5 months

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Interesting item on eBay web site item#70453747: 21 year old man forsale! (fwd)

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

This fits the charter of being a "classic computer" I suppose. I wonder if he'll fetch more than an Altair? --- Title of item: 21 year old man forsale! Seller: mooxe(a)recorder.ca Starts: 02/23/99 08:46:50 PST Ends: 03/02/99 08:46:50 PST Price: Currently $5.50 To bid the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=70453747 Item Description: Hi!! My name is Andrew and I need a home! I'm 21 years old, 6'0 175 pounds. I have blue puppy dog eyes and unemployed!!! I have a great personality! Physically fit. My hobbies include staying up all night on IRC, and reading porno on the web and usenet! If you buy me you get a loving, cuddly sensitive young man! I come with the standard 10 year warranty and my own clothes to last me for 1 year! WHAT A DEAL EH? I come with many more hidden surprises, habits, hobbies and sexual desires! I can be anything and do anything you want! Buy me now cause supplies are limited tee-hee!! Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99]

27 years, 5 months

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Packing and Shipping

by jpl15＠netcom.com

I might come to regret this.... ;} I will be in the Seattle, WA area the weekend of the 13th. I will be inflicting myself on the kind hospitality of Mr. Bruce Lane, and visiting the Puyallup Swap Meet. I am flying there in a plane and returning in a 12-foot truck, which I think will only be partially loaded. So.... If anyone has something truck-able in the Seattle area to be delivered into the Los Angeles area.. p'raps we can work something out. The governing parameters are: it fits in the truck, it gets on the truck Saturday the 13th afternoon or early evening, and it gets picked up in LA at my house, or can be easily transfered to my (smaller) pickup truck and delivered to you in the LA region for a suitable bribe. I am driving straight through Sunday, so no intermediate stops are planned between There and Here. Also: items of interest to classiccmpers only, please. This was inspired by Jay West's idea of forming a network of folks to 'stagecoach' jun^H^H^H^H equipment accross the country. Let me know via private e-mail. Cheers John

27 years, 5 months

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Interesting book was Re: Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 01:30 PM 2/24/99 -0800, Sam wrote: > >Does anyone have the data sheets for the 1101 RAM and the Intel 8008? I >need both. In the case of the 8008, an instruction set listing would also >be cool. Sam, I have one. I was at a library trift store and found a neat book, Microcomputers and Microproceesors: Hardware, Software and Applications by John Hilburn and Paul Julich, 1976. It has the instructions for the 4004, 4040, 8008, 8080, National IMP, Rockwell PPS_4, RCA COSMAC and a lot of others. I'll loan you the book if you'll send it back soon. Joe > >Anyone know where 1101 RAM chips are for sale (if at all?) > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 02/15/99] > >

27 years, 5 months

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Amiga 1000 boot ROM & Kickstart 27.5(!)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Ethan Dicks <erd(a)infinet.com> wrote: <> The only place I've seen the term "slushware" used is on the DECmate boxe <> AFAIK, its use there matches your use here. < <Not really. The slushware on a DECmate is in an entirely different addres <space from user code, and can only be invoked by trapped I/O instructions <and the like. It is much more like the System Management Mode of the recen <x86 processors (late-486-era to present). Cant speak for the kickstart code. Slushware is the softloadable diagnostic, boot and system service code for DECmateII/III systems. the code provides terminal and keyboard emulation and some device emulation. Due to the characteristics of the CMOS PDP-8 (6120) the device has the nominal 32KW of system space as 8 4k pages and also a duplicate space that is special in that it's assigned it's own unique front pannel interrupt. That address space and interrupt BTW is something a real PDP-8 does not have. Due to the way it's structured you can sort of use it as system space for things like rom, rom loaders and special purpose handlers. Also unique to the DMII/III is that IOTs for 603x and 604x (TTY IO on nominal -8, a few others as well) are trapped to CP space handlers for emulation of display and lk201 keyboard. It can be considered on other micros as boot and device code that runs is special banked memory. It is not however microcode. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Does anyone have the data sheets for the 1101 RAM and the Intel 8008? I <need both. In the case of the 8008, an instruction set listing would also <be cool. I have a full data book on the part. Interesting beast in that it was only 18 pins! That part alone made it loads of fun back in '73 to work with. <Anyone know where 1101 RAM chips are for sale (if at all?) I think I have 8 of them, not for sale. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Here's some information. It's a 256*1 bit PMOS static RAM, access time <850ns or better. It runs off +5V and -9V (as usual for PMOS). The pinout <is : That was the fast part. the lowcost part was 1.5us. it was very slow and in 1972 when I first encounterd it, they were $15 a copy too! < <1 A5 <2 A7 <3 A6 <4 Vd (-9V) <5 Vcc (+5V) <6 A4 <7 A0 <8 Vdd (-9V) <9 A2 <10 A1 <11 A3 <12 Data In <13 Data Out <14 Data Out/ <15 R/W <16 CS/ Correct. according to my data sheet. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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attention MITS fiends . . .

by edick＠idcomm.com

My problem stems from the fact that there are WAY too many things for me to handle at once, Sam. You wanted me to pack the stuff and have it shipped via an economical method but which required me to package and haul the stuff some 45 miles to the airport area. I just haven't the resources (personal) or the time to do all this under my present circumstances. What's more, I've had to move TONS more stuff from the basement to the covered storage outside, and it's pissing my neighbors off. Some of them understand, but many don't. Now, if you can think of a workable way which doesn't involve a major outlay on my part, in advance of the fact, and doesn't involve many hours of packing and hauling time, mine, I mean, since I have to pack and haul from inside the house to outside, I'm listening, so to speak. Those ALTOS boxes I bought on your behalf are still in the car, by the way, but I can't open the trunk because I was rear-ended by an illegal alien with no insurance . . . In the meantime, I'm going through the just-now-moved stuff to ensure I don't expose otherwise sensitive and potentially fragile hardware to unfavorable conditions. What this amounts to is looking through the stuff I've had help to haul from the basement in the last day or two, in the dark, and examine it in the daylight, to ensure it retains some of its remaining worth, if I can do anything to that end. Keep in mind that I'm stressed to the MAX right now, because I have a new 30-hour-a-day, 8-day-per-week job for anew client, in addition to all this other headache. What's more, I'd like to avoid the exchange of dollars for anything other than expenses because of the accounting headaches that creates. I had this stuff in two sections of the basement because some of was known to be of some value and therefore worth preserving. That's of less concern to me now than it once was, but it is of some importance to me to avoid discarding the stuff in a way that will result in no benefit to anyone. I'm willing to ship, via USPS because I visit my P.O. box several times a week, those items I can easily ship. I have physical limitations which render me unable to lift items with much weight or raise my arms much above the level of my shoulders. I don't have a lot of boxes in which to ship things, nor do I have the time or the desire to shop for boxes and packaging materials. I would, of course, consider bagging a board or documentation, and taking it to Mailboxes, etc, to have them package and ship it at the expense of the recipient. However, I don't have lots of cash to invest in speculation on COD shipments. I can do this a little, but I have a boy at Harvard and one (who didn't want to go to MIT because his brother was already in Boston) at Georgia Tech. You know that's not free! The reason I decided to get into the pile of miscellaneous hardware and move it out is because I'm in the "proof of concept" stage with my new client and while packaging doesn't matter at this point, I do have to have hardware on which to implement the concepts and I no longer go out and buy, randomly, hardware which suits the task, first because it often doesn't and secondly because it ultimately winds up in "the pile." I doubt that you intended to publish this communique' but I'm also publishing my reply so I won't have to explain to every individual why I don't have inventory listings of all the stuff in "the pile" or in "the heap." This stuff is the product of over twenty five years' accumulation of hardware I bought at market price and which has not found another home . . . yet. I remember what some of this stuff cost, so I'm reluctant simply to toss it where it will produce no further value. Those old Apple-]['s still do, faithfully, the job they could do back in the '70's, though no better, and the CP/M boxes will still turn out the payroll, though not in color and without the fancy noises. I try to pass this stuff on to people who will get some benefit since it's worthless lying around unused. Clearly, you're in the business of distributing such items as we discussed before. I have no problem with that. I just can't afford to expend my limited resources making the business of getting these items moved to your venue convenient for you. Things were different two to three weeks ago, when I didn't have the trunk of my car sealed by the damage, and when I didn't have the problem of making room for additional residents in my house. As I've said before, I don't mind giving stuff away to someone who will use it. If I "get" something for it, I prefer it not take the form of cash, because of the tax-related bookkeeping hassles. As I pick my way through "the pile" looking for resources I can use for my present task, I'll make a list of what I see. In some cases, I'll know I have other parts, or documents, or whatever, which might "go with" these and probably won't have time to find them. I will however offer a partial list as time allows and as I go back inside to "take a load off." Does this make any sense to anyone? Dick ---------- > From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: attention MITS fiends . . . > Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 10:30 AM > > On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > I'm trying to make room for a child and her progeny in my basement, hence > > have moved some items into the carport . . . > > > > Since todays weather is good, I'm out sifting through the stuff looking for > > items of interest, and find I have a MITS modem board. > > > > Would this be of interest to anyone? > > Richard, what happened? > > You were going to consolidate all the stuff in the carport and then > determine a total shipping weight so I could figure out how much I owe you > for it. > > Now you are offering up bits & pieces to the list. I thought we'd already > had a deal on everything. > > I am very confused as to why you are doing this. > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 02/15/99]

27 years, 5 months

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Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Does anyone have the data sheets for the 1101 RAM and the Intel 8008? I need both. In the case of the 8008, an instruction set listing would also be cool. Anyone know where 1101 RAM chips are for sale (if at all?) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99]

27 years, 5 months

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Avail: 50-pin cables/rack-panel/connectors for unknown system

by ss＠allegro.com

Hi, (hoping this version makes it past the classiccmp filter :) Free to any home: (pick up in Cupertino, or pay shipping) two 5 meter (?) cables, with female 50 pin AMP connectors on both ends (three rows of holes: 17, 16, 17). The cables have tags reading: 422-0018-018 REV C RMH one 19" panel (about 1.5" high) with two male 60 pin connectors (matching the ones on the cables). These two connectors are wired to two long ribbon cables (3 meters?) that both end in 50 pin card connectors of some kind. The male connectors on the panel are labelled J1A and J1B. These were bundled into a surplus purchase, and have absolutely no connection with the computer I got! thanks, Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com

27 years, 5 months

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attention MITS fiends . . .(NOW PACKING AND SHIPPING)

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

>Packing and shipping though is a straight forward problem, which I would >love to see a discussion of. > >Heavy old junk. >The only thing I see practical here is the personal transport option, stick >it in the trunk, back of the pickup, etc. I am curious about the creation >of some sort of hardware hitch hiker pool, so people going from one place >to another anyway, might consider hauling some junk for others besides >there own junk. With regards to shipping, here's my "magic" solution (like there is one) ;) Find an associate (friend, spouse, customer, etc.) who works somewhere that does a lot of shipping. These companies get HUGE discounts off shipping costs from folks like roadway, ups, etc. Then see if you can have them do the shipping in to their warehouse, and you pick it up from there. You of course offer to pay their shipping cost outright (still a huge savings for you off normal pricing) or you can setup a barter arrangement with the company (like helping with their PC network). Case in point - I'm having a pallet with a HP21MX rack, including 15231 power supply (heavy), cpu (somewhat heavy), and 7900A disk drive (VERY heavy) sent to St. Louis from California. Normal roadway shipping cost is around $695.00. However, a customer of mine does a lot of shipping and their cost from roadway is $195.00. I'm doing side consulting work for them to pay off their cost, but in a barter arrangement you could easily offer them a bit more work/time in trade than their cost for their trouble. That all being said, I've driven hundreds of miles to pick up something for my collection. But in a pinch, the above method can be better at times. I myself would be MOST interested in forming some type of hardware pickup arrangements with folks in other areas. I'll pickup stuff in my area for you - you do the same for me in your area. Then once every so often several of us could meet halfway to exchange the stuff for others and/or ourselves. Perhaps each person gets partial gas reimbursement if it's only equipment for others... who knows - I'm just throwing out ideas for all to throw stones at. FYI - I'm in St. Louis, MO - a nice central location, so I'd be happy to hold onto those 5 altairs and 8 imsai8080's for ya <grin - just kidding - I don't even collect micro's> Finally - I'm going to be in Irvine, CA (flying into LAX though) march 3,4,5, and a bit on saturday the 6th. Two questions - 1) Can anyone direct me to any favorite surplus/salvage stores in the area I can scavenge in my spare time while I'm out there? and 2) If anyone on this list is in the Irvine area, I'd be happy to buy ya a cup of coffee and exchange stories about when computers were real computers :) See ya! Jay West

27 years, 5 months

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21mx system I bought...

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

Ok folks - since everyone and their brother is asking.... Yes, I *DID* get a 21mx system from Berman today. However, that is not the 21mx system I was referring to in my post. I got two 21mx systems today, both from california (one from berman), but >from different places there. BTW - does anyone have HP 21mx M series cpus(2105a, 2108a, 2112a)? I'd be willing to trade 21mx E series cpu's for them. The E series I have are faster than the M's, and completely compatible (except for timing dependent program loops due to the faster speed). The software I want to run will run better on the M's - so... Let me know! Jay West

27 years, 5 months

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question about viruses

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The first article I ever read on computer viruses was in the Los Angeles <Times in 1986. In fact, I clipped and saved this article (and many <others) and still have it in a file folder laying on a shelf in my bedroom <closet. They are far older. <The author then accurately predicted the explosion of computer virus <attacks. In 1986 I was just playing around with computer timebombs on the <Apple ][ (one of my dumb friends actually used my program on an <unsuspecting fellow computer class student and got reamed out pretty good <by the teacher) but viruses were pretty scarce. A few years later and <they started to become a major nuisance. The first one I know of ram on TOPS-10 V3.x and was a monitor virus (using modern terms). It was a hack to open the security door. That done we created cancer that was a program that did nothing except copy itself. that was back around '71. There were telco virus as well in teh 70s with the advent of ESS. back in late '69 on a PDP-8I we ran a Trogen Hourse to get passwords and spoof people (written in pal-III!). Allison

27 years, 5 months

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NEC APCIII - Any insights?

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Hi! My school has an old NEC APCIII. All I know about it is that it's an AMD 8086-2, and had a hard drive and floppy drive. What I want to know is if there is a way to make it boot from the floppy. I turn it on, it beeps, sits for about 2 minutes, says : DOS 2.11 command interpreter, then locks. it only beeps when a key is pressed. Any ideas on how to get into setup? -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 5 months

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Amiga 1000 boot ROM & Kickstart 27.5(!)

by mark_k＠iname.com

Hi, Are there any people who have Amiga 1000s on this list? If so, please contact me, even if you can't help directly with the things mentioned below. Boot ROM -------- Inside the A1000 there is a boot ROM whose purpose is to load Kickstart from disk. In normal use -- after Kickstart is loaded -- this ROM is not visible. I want to try and get the data from the boot ROM dumped to disk; it will be interesting to disassemble this and see how it works. To do this requires using a little trick (involving the RESET instruction), which only works when Fast RAM is present. I can write a program to hopefully allow the boot ROM data to be dumped. This would need to be run on an A1000 which has Fast RAM. Please let me know if you're interested in helping with this. Kickstart 27.5 and early Amiga demos ------------------------------------ Many years ago, I received a catalogue disk from an American company called Chiron Conceptions Public Domain, who used to advertise in Amiga World magazine. Listed there were some very early Amiga demos, used for the Amiga launch in 1985. They require a pre-1.0 Kickstart, version 27.5, to work. I would really like to get hold of any of these demos and Kickstart 27.5. Below is the listing from the PD catalogue. VERSION 27.5 DEMO DISKS ======================= CC-001 --VERSION 27.5 KICKSTART Prerelease version of Amiga Kickstart. Needed for some disks. (NOTE: Will not work on the Amiga 500 or 2000). CC-002 --AMIGA SHOW STOPPER PAK Includes two of the demos shown at the Amiga debut at Lincoln Center: Eagle Demo Watch the eagle as it swoops over the digitized mountain range. Listen to it's screams as it glides across your screen! An endless loop demo. Ballet Stills A series of superb digitized graphic stills of a ballerina. (NOTE:Requires Version 27.5 Kickstart (CC-001) and thus will not run on the Amiga 500 or 2000). CC-003 --ISLAND GRAPHICS DEMO SET A two disk set of graphics pictures and animations demonstrating the Amiga. Very nicely done. (Requires external disk drive & Version 27.5 Kickstart-(CC-001) and thus will not run on the Amiga 500 or 2000). CC-004 --ELECTRONIC ARTS GRAPHICS DEMO A two disk set demonstrating Amiga's music, graphic, and voice abilities. Includes digitized voice, scenes from EA's Amiga software, music, and digitized photos.(NOTE: Requires 2 drives, 512K, and Version 27.5 KickStart (CC-001) and thus will not run on the Amiga 500 or 2000). Regards, -- Mark

27 years, 5 months

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Xerox 820 family almost complete

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Two questions: < <Is there still a source for 5.25 inch CP/M for the Xerox 820? That machine had a lot of mods and people working on it so I'd say likely. If you can fid the sources it's not that bad to edit and reassemble. <Was there ever a 5.25 inch floppy/ hard drive combo offered? Unknown on that but I'd bet yes. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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here's the list . . .

by edick＠idcomm.com

It has been about 20 years since I was involved with the AMI chip, but I do recall that the AMI version is a superset of the MOT version. It has features not present in the MOT part. I rather doubt they are interchangeable without firmware modifications. AMI also made a few parts for the MOT processor family which MOT themselves never got around to building. One example is the 6834, which is a two-ported RAM, I believe. It was intended for communication between multiple processors in a system, but MOT really didn't implement this until they put out the 68121, which was apparently intended as an intelligent peripheral controller for an MC68000 family processor. The '121 was a 6803 with a built-in 6834. The part's use was envisioned in a rather narrow way and, hence never saw much popularity, as it was difficult to use in any way outside this narrow scope. I'll see if I can find an old AMI databook . . . Dick ---------- > From: Arlen Michaels <amichael(a)nortelnetworks.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: RE: here's the list . . . > Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 12:02 PM > > On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)30below.com> wrote: > > > >> BIOTECH ELECTRONICS BCT800 graphics board - uses AMI 68047 chip and 12 > > > > Erm, sounds like that AMI chip is a clone of Motorola's 6847 VDG, which > > was > > used in Tandy's CoCo 1 & 2, and the MC-10. > > > > I wonder: > > > > 1) if they're pin compatible, > > 2) if they've got added functionality -- might be fun to play with in one > > of my CoCo's if there is! > > > It's quite likely that AMI's 68047 is a clone of Motorola's 6847, because > AMI used to supply pin-for-pin equivalents of a number of Motorola > 6800-family devices, including the 6821 Peripheral Interface Adapter and the > 6850 Asynchronous Communications Interface Adapter. The 68047 and 6847 are > both 40-pin chips, but I don't have an AMI datasheet handy. > > Arlen > > -- > Arlen Michaels amichael(a)nortelnetworks.com

27 years, 5 months

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PDP-8 Handbooks

by dpeschel＠u.washington.edu

Kevin's message propelled me to look through our library catalog for all the DEC handbooks we have. (I already sent the list to him.) That made me think of a question I've had for a while. Megan or Allison, maybe you know the answer? You two seem to have vast collections of manuals. Our library has volume 1 of a two-volume _Introduction to Programming_ set. I've always wondered what was in the other volume. (It covers details of the languages supported on the PDP-8.) But I've never seen the two-volume set anywhere else, just a one-volume book. And while I'm at it... We have the OS/8 handbook as well. I've never been clear on what the different versions of OS/8 are, so I don't know how early or late our handbook is. The OS/8 book does mention using a TD8E system, which requires either 12K of RAM or a special ROM page. Unfortunately, the Intro to Programming handbook doesn't explain how the ROM is installed. The programming handbook is specific to the 8/E, but it omits a lot of details about customizing your 8/E. I do understand that the TD8E was a total corner-cutting move -- it shifted the burden of getting the bits off the tape from the hardware to the software, right? -- and is universally regarded as a disgrace. -- Derek

27 years, 5 months

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DEC Handbooks - information please.

by kstumpf＠unusual.on.ca

I am trying to compile a pictoral history of DEC handbooks. The tentative title is a Handbook of DEC Handbooks. Trying to find a definitive list of all such publications is proving to be very difficult. The Compaq-version of DEC is still very much unorganized. The Smithsonian is doing their best, as is Charles Babbage Institute, and TCM is next on the contact list, but please consider helping. I believe the list can only be compiled through grass-roots channels. If you have any DEC handbooks, please send an email directly to me with the titles and dates of publication. Please only send a message if you have the title, not just if you sort'a know it might exist. I'll publish the list on my web site. Thank you all. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 .

27 years, 5 months

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PDP-8 Handbooks

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Our library has volume 1 of a two-volume _Introduction to Programming_ >set. I've always wondered what was in the other volume. (It covers >details of the languages supported on the PDP-8.) But I've never seen >the two-volume set anywhere else, just a one-volume book. The second volume was the _programming languages_ handbook. >And while I'm at it... We have the OS/8 handbook as well. I've never >been clear on what the different versions of OS/8 are, so I don't know >how early or late our handbook is. I'm afraid I can't speak to that... when I first used a pdp-8, it was with 4k and an ASR33 -- it took too long to load editor, then assembler, then linker by low speed paper tape, so we learned really quickly how to hand-code and toggle the programs in through the front panel. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 5 months

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xenodisk?

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

I've heard Xenodisk bandied about a lot. Would someone tell me what it is? -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? -----------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 5 months

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CRT handling Was: Re: It's ALIVE!

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

> I have worked on various appliances ,electrical devices and/or wiring > most of my life, close to 50 years, and I have been "bitten" on occasion. > Of course, except for stoves and dryers, the voltage here is 110 v. I can > understand the respect given to 220v.(3wire) and have never worked on > anything at that voltage without shutting down the circuit. I have also been > very cautious about working on anything in damp conditions like in a > washroom or wet basement. I realize that it is the total amperage that kills > when you become ground. Most household circuits here are 15-20 amps. > Having been "bitten" to no ill effects other than by my reaction to the shock, > what are the parameters which would kill you on these circuits. e.g. rubber > soled shoes vs leather, etc. There is a common misconception that the amperage is what kills you. That is simply not true. At low frequency (50-60HZ) and DC, the human body is a simple resistive circuit and will obey OHMS law E=I*R. It is impossible to have one without the other! IIRC a current of approx 100MA through the trunk of the body is enough to stop the heart. If you measure the resistance of your body and plug those factors in the foumula, you'll get an idea of how much voltage it takes to kill you. The internal body parts actually have a fairly low electrical resistance. This is because your body is filled with fluids that are somewhat conductive. Most of the bodys resistance is due to the insulating properties of your skin. Dry skin is a relatively poor conductor of electricity but, when it is dampened the resistance becomes much lower. That is why medical probes have a conductive jelly on them. The electrolyte in the jelly breaks down the resistance of the skin and provides a better path for current into the body. A cars battery is capable of producing 100s of amperes of current however, it won't fry you. When you touch the poles of the battery, the amount of current (determined by the formula above), is very low and generally cannot be felt. However, if your hands are damp, you could get a minor electrical shock from it. NOTE: A shock from DC is a burning sensation rather than the "vibrating" sensation of 60HZ curent. There are a couple of ways to getting shocked when working on appliances. Some more dangerous than others. If you are working on a device and not well insulated from the ground, there is a current path from your hand through your trunk (and heart) directly to the ground. If you are foolish enough to stand in water while doing this, the resistance through the soles of your feet is much lower and the potential of a fatal shock is greater. Thick rubber soled shoes like tennis shoes and isolation transformers are the best protection here. If you are working with both hands, it is very possible to get zapped from hand to hand. Once again the current path is directly through the trunk (heart) of the body and is quite dangerous. That is why many electricians work with in hand in their pocket. A shock that is isolated to one hand could be painful but, isn't nearly as dangerous. The worst shock that I have received was working on a antenna for a HF transmitter. I was dumb enough to leave the equipment running while adjusting the antenna and someone keyed the transmitter from a remote location. A high frequency shock (like DC) is a burning sensation and I had the blisters to prove it. Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

27 years, 5 months

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Xerox 820 family almost complete

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 10:45 PM 2/23/99 -0800, George wrote: >Is there still a source for 5.25 inch CP/M for the Xerox 820? > Will the CPM for the 803 or one of the other models work on the 820? Does anyone know what the capability is between the various Televiedo models? Joe

27 years, 5 months

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Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk)

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

Whee! it's finally here! I got my vaxstation 3100 from Tim in the mail today! It's a Vaxstation 3100 model 42 a-bd with a mighty 8 megs of ram. It works, too! Tim thoughtfully loaded VMS 6.01 on the rz23 it came with, and after hooking it up to my apple2GS with spectrum (also a classic computer :) I got the thing to boot up into VMS. VERY cool. :) Wishing it had TCP-IP, but heck, if it had *everything* I want on it, where would the challenge be? :) By the by, after attempting to negotiate with Sydex about a single user license for Teledisk pro (the 150 dollar license they sell is a 25 user site license) and failing, I've resolved not to do business with them again and have removed Teledisk 2.16 (which turned out to be a hacked version) >from my system as well as 22disk, which is their utility for copying to and >from CPM disks. Good software, but not worth what they want for it. It's DOS mode software for pete's sake. -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? -----------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 5 months

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here's the list . . .

by amichael＠nortelnetworks.com

On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)30below.com> wrote: > >> BIOTECH ELECTRONICS BCT800 graphics board - uses AMI 68047 chip and 12 > > Erm, sounds like that AMI chip is a clone of Motorola's 6847 VDG, which > was > used in Tandy's CoCo 1 & 2, and the MC-10. > > I wonder: > > 1) if they're pin compatible, > 2) if they've got added functionality -- might be fun to play with in one > of my CoCo's if there is! > It's quite likely that AMI's 68047 is a clone of Motorola's 6847, because AMI used to supply pin-for-pin equivalents of a number of Motorola 6800-family devices, including the 6821 Peripheral Interface Adapter and the 6850 Asynchronous Communications Interface Adapter. The 68047 and 6847 are both 40-pin chips, but I don't have an AMI datasheet handy. Arlen -- Arlen Michaels amichael(a)nortelnetworks.com

27 years, 5 months

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CRT handling Was: Re: It's ALIVE!

by cfandt＠netsync.net

Upon the date 04:35 PM 2/22/99 -0500, R. Stricklin (kjaeros) said something like: >On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, William Donzelli wrote: > >> Post 1960 CRTs are actually quite tough and will sustain a great deal of >> physical abuse. When they break, the neck shatters first and lets all the >> air in. The days of the nasty implosions due to no safety glass are gone. > >Hm. You're certain? I have this disembodied memory of seeing a box in my >parents' shed in the early '80s, with an implosion hazard warning >emblazoned on. I'm fairly sure it was the box for their old TRS-80 Model >III, but it is possible it belonged to their Zenith TV they'd just bought. > >Maybe it was just a bozo-warning. Yes it probably was a bozo-warning (I like that expression. Gotta remember it. :) I've handled CRTs since I was 11 or 12 (33-34 yrs ago). There were those that were dead and had to be disposed of from a set I was repairing. When throwing them into the town dump (that's back in the days before controlled landfills and waste management laws, etc.) I was able to observe that they would take quite a whack on the side of the large part of the envelope before they broke. BUT, when they did break, the implosion caused glass pieces to fly several meters distant. On the other hand, when just the neck got broke, there was usually a definite, brief "chufff" sound when the air rushed into the envelope and no other drastic action. Here's a story to illustrate effects of an implosion: Back when I was getting more and more into TV repairs during my 17th summer, there was a dead 19" 110 degree deflection CRT that I had to get rid of. It was setting on the ledge of the basement foundation wall. Dad was helping me sort out and haul some junk to the dump. That CRT had to go in that load. Dad figured he could simply break up that tube to save space on the load as we were using the rather small family car to haul it (a '65 Corvair). Well, as he'd never himself broke a CRT nor even seen what happens during an implosion he was unaware of the "proper" way to bust one up. He held a corrugated box under the edge of the wall where the tube was sitting, grabbed a hammer and gave the side of the envelope a firm whack. Naturally, just as I started to say "Don't hit it there!!", the deed was done. At least knew enough to hold his eyes closed. A few minutes later, after we both picked the broken glass out of our hair, we observed that the largest piece of that tube was not even the size of a fist. Mom came running downstairs and asked what in the world was going on with that loud 'bang' and glass shattering sounds. Took a while to get the place cleaned up. And you can bet that my mother was there watching us to make darn sure we _did_ clean it up well. Just understand the neck of a CRT is not so fragile to just break while twisting a yoke after its clamp is loosened. Use common sense while working around a CRT. Don't work in a tight area where you could turn around and accidentally bump the neck with your elbow. Have plenty room around the monitor while on the table or workbench. Don't drop tools onto the CRT (happened to me once --and _only_ once!). Careful of getting zapped by any unprotected parts of the yoke while under power and rotating it (you could jerk around and bump the neck). There usually is a part of the plastic yoke body with which you gould grasp while rotating. The high voltage lead going to the ultor connection on the side of the envelope handles about 15 to 18 thousand volts for a monochrome monitor. Don't get close to the lead or especially the ultor connection. Following these hints should help anybody here get through a simple yoke adjustment like this. Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa

27 years, 5 months

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Address for John Healy

by dogas＠leading.net

John, I lost your email address and would like to contact you. Please drop me a note. Thanks - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 5 months

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TCP/IP for DEC Pro's

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>My DEC Pro has an ethernet card (DECNA) and POS has Pro/DECnet freely available. >As far as I can tell, there isn't any TCP/IP software for it. (But, if someone >knows of any, please let us know!). If you abandon POS, and instead install RT-11 (the best way, of course, is to buy RT-11 5.7, with all the Y2K hooks for the Pro realtime clock), you can put Alan Baldwin's TCP/IP for RT-11 on it quite easily. See http://shop-pdp.kent.edu/ (itself a RT-11 machine with a http server) for details. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 5 months

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Hans Franke?

by edick＠idcomm.com

I saw a line from him just a couple of days ago. Dick ---------- > From: Sellam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Hans Franke? > Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 4:21 AM > > > Did Hans Franke die or something? I haven't heard even a peep from that > loquacious Bavarian in a while. > > Maybe John Zabolitzky has heard from him in the past few weeks? > > Christian, do you have his telephone number by any chance? > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 02/15/99]

27 years, 5 months

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