- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

23F2716 cables all sold, Monday swapday?

by mikeford＠netwiz.net

I guess the three people on the earth with a P70 must be on this list, those cables are gone. A couple of the other lists I am on have Monday as swapday, the day people should offer up things they don't need to those who do need them. So don't be surprized if from time to time I end up making some kind of post here as I rifle through my stuff and make a post on one of the other lists. Today I want to hit three points, a vendor I know with some old software, recent additions to my personal heap of stuff, and the URL that points to it. At the Fontana, CA hamfest last Saturday a vendor I know had a couple dozen moving sized boxes of old (circa 1990) software, many still sealed. I bought AppleShare 3.0, 2.0, a couple PC Appletalk cards, a full set of AUX version 1.1 (Apple unix), and plan on paying a visit to his warehouse before he takes the next load to Pomona next Saturday. If someone is looking for a complete boxed set of some software of that era, MacDraft, MacSomethingElse, let me know ASAP, or wander out to Pomona and see whats left. The mix BTW was about 60/40 mac/pc, but I don't have a clue about old PC stuff. I bought a dozen old macs, a pair of laserwriter II's (I now have motherboards for IInt, IIntx, and IIg), a box of Apple II cables, a big box of Farallon phonenet adapters, more nubus video and ethernet cards, and out of the dozen old macs it looks like two of the SE have Levco Prodigy boards (the first I looked at included a 4 MB ram on the Prodigy board) and three SE/30 are checking out pretty well. If you see something on my web page, NOW is a good time to ask for it. As usual my web page isn't very up to date, but at least I am getting more listed all the time. If I don't show a price, help me out and suggest one. http://www.netwiz.net/~mikeford/MacList.html

27 years, 4 months

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mass storage controllers for S-100

by edick＠idcomm.com

It turns out I've got a few mass storage controller which might be of use. All were funcional when removed from their previous homes. Cipher Data products - 2-board set + controller formatter (on the format of the open reel tape drive, rather than the S-100 board pair) 9-trackTape interface - XComp 8" Winchester Disk Controller board pair tuned for the 4.34 MHz data transfer rate of SA-100x series drives. - MSC - (later called Xebec) S-100, unfortunately over-height ST-506 (2 drives) interface, MFM coding. - Ditronics-1 (Micro Applications, Inc) dual density FDC (5-1/4" drives only) Let me know if you have any use for these items, and perhaps we can arrange a transfer. Dick

27 years, 4 months

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VMS architects

by joe＠barrera.org

> >So I guess Dave Cutler was there from the beginning of VMS development. > > However, it's my understanding he left somewhere shortly after Version 1.0. > > Zane He and a bunch of other VMS folks headed off to DECWest, and worked on a variety of projects including the Mica (?) operating system. I believe it's largely the DECWest crowd that moved to Microsoft. If you look at http://www.halcyon.com/edge/decwest_alumni you'll see a large number of @microsoft.com addresses. - Joe

27 years, 4 months

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Available: Apple //c, Atari 800, Mac Plus

by douga＠email.com

They aren't all that obscure, but they're all three available at my local thrift store (sans power cables). If anyone would like me to pick them up, shoot me an email. I'm not a particular fan of any of these machines, but I figured someone on the list might be interested. FYI... Doug

27 years, 4 months

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HP CS/80,SS/80 & Amigo Protocols

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Frank: I got the docs you sent, I think these will help quite a bit! I'm gonna put a few dollars in the mail to cover postage, etc. Thanks! Jeff On 10 Mar 1999 16:18:13 -0800 Frank McConnell <fmc(a)reanimators.org> writes: >Jeffrey l Kaneko <jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com> wrote: >> Does anyone have the docs for these HP protocols? > >Parts of CS/80, from the 7941/7945 service manual. I'd like to get >info on the rest too. > >> The Amigo protocol is the oldest. Then the CS-80, >> and the SS-80 is the newest. I think any of >> these would be relevent to the work I'm doing. > >For real? Can you talk about it? > >-Frank McConnell > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 4 months

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Sony SMC-70 available

by peterutz＠worldnet.att.net

Please post this in your newsletter, with responses to come to me directly at peterutz(a)worldnet.att.net as I am not a subscriber. LOOKING FOR A GOOD HOME I have 3 Sony SMC70 CPUs, and loads of related stuff: Boxes of cables, TV interfaces, a monitor, 64K RAM cache drive (a big deal back then), loads of software for word processing, CPM utilities, titling and graphics, and instruction books for it all (hardware and software). All 3 machines worked a year ago, but one has a couple non-operating characters on the keyboard and another has a nonfunctioning serial port.The third was perfect, but a year idle in the basement may have taken some toll. I have maybe 50 3.5" floppies for the SMC70. I'll sell the works for $200 plus postage from NJ, or will sell specific cables and books for $15 each. I used these machines from about 1980 to 1986 for word processing, television graphics, and to operate an interactive laser videodisc. They have lightpen, audiocassette, and keypad ports, along with parallel, serial ,and external devices ports and dual SSSD 3.5" floppy drives.

27 years, 4 months

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[OT] NT, software reliability, and the lack thereof.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> Didn't all the lead technicians who built NT come from DEC? In fact <wasn't Dave Cutler, NT head honcho, the designer of VMS? < <Yes and yes. Not quite. Cutler was the designer of RSX-11 and files-11 all of which were part of VMS but not VMS it self, his direct involvemnt was near nil by the mid to late 80s. His contribution to NT was at the higher archetectual level. Allison

27 years, 4 months

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classic operating systems

by mbg＠world.std.com

>You can get an 'ancient unix' source license for $100. It gets you the >source to unix 7th edtion and earlier for personal use. I *think* it might also give you rights to use 2.11BSD, the most recent BSD for pdp-11s, which also comes with source. Best to contact PUPS to find out... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 4 months

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[OT] NT, software reliability, and the lack thereof.

by drbilling＠ucdavis.edu

At 08:21 PM 3/15/99 -0000, you wrote: >Dean Billing <drbilling(a)ucdavis.edu> wrote: >> After M-Squish designed NT, they hired one of the VMS gurus from DEC > >No, they weren't *that* stupid. They hired him at let him design it. >The actual operating system deep in the bowels of Windows NT isn't so >bad. This doesn't sound right to me. I guess there are so many legends about the NT design team that we would have to name each person and understand their contribution. Very early on, when NT betas were being distributed free, and I got one of them, the lore going around that NT core was canabalized from the new Mach kernel. Later, I heard that one of the VMS gurus was hired by MS. I find it very difficult to believe that they would hire a DEC VMS guru before NT was cast in iron and then "...let him design it." If NT was based, even loosely, on the Mach kernel, why would they hire a VMS guru? Why not a Mach kernel guru? >But they have lventy-seven layers of crap on top of it to keep >you from seing anything that might be simple and elegant. Every operating system today has "...lventy-seven layers of crap on top of it..." including UNIX with an X client and then applications or AIX with SMIT on top of an X client or even VMS. >> ... >No, it isn't. The underlying operating system is nothing like Unix, and >only vaguely like Mach (which are themselves two entirely different things). OK, but isn't the general end result of using the Mach kernel, a UNIX system? >However, as a "normal" Windows programmer (for the Win32 subsystem), you >can't even get to the operating system. You can only call the Win32 >layer. VMS protects itself in the same way. If you are writing well behaved applications, you can only make VMS system calls, even if you are writing drivers. >> Therefore, they have not been able to implement a true clustering system >> and IMHO because the DEC software engineers came late to the game, they >> were unable to design the basic reliability into the operating system >> software interfaces. > >Again, that's not the fault of the kernel. The kernel is pretty good. The >problem is the leventy-seven layers of crap above it. I believe it is the fault of the kernel, for without a kernel with a built in distributed lock manager, you can't implement true clustering. You get something like IBM AIX with HACMP which is a "...lventy-seven layers of crap on top of it." to simulate a "cluster" in a UNIX environment, except you have a system disk on each CPU which must be synchronized with every other system disk. >And the I/O architecture is even OK, but unfortunately you end up with >hundreds of device drivers written by bozos running at ring zero, so >naturally the system isn't as robust as it should be. DEC was in complete >control of the VAX, so most VMS sites didn't run any drivers that were >written by clueless morons. This is surely not the case of sites that used VAXen for process control, which was a primary feature of VMS in the early days; VMS being an extension of RSX-11. DEC also has documentation to write drivers properly, as I would assume MicroSoft does for NT. I doubt whether all of the problems with NT are bad drivers written by our local " ... clueless morons." ... since we don't do that, and our NT systems still crash frequently. > ... >Um, what do you mean by "doing development work on them"? I mean doing any kind of application software development work simultaneously with using it for a server, which is what we do every day on our VAXcluster and IBM RS/6000 UNIX servers. >If you want a file server to be as robust as possible, it should be used for >nothing but serving files. That was true even in the old days. That would be news to any large VMS or IBM mainframe shop. >Nowdays people load all kinds of crap on their NT file server. It's no >wonder the things fall over every few days. We have loaded all kinds of applications and third party software on our VAXcluster, from Interleaf, Sapiens, Oracle, MEC, and others and it has never crashed except during hardware failures which have ocurred every few years. >Of course, if NT didn't have the problems discussed above, it should have >been able to go weeks or months without falling over. > >> Another drawback to NT is that many software >> upgrades and application installation/deinstallations require rebooting, >> something unheard of with VMS. > >This problem is definitely a matter of poor design. I'm pretty sure this >one is also not the fault of the kernel, but of the leventy-seven layers >of crap above it. The programmers were too lazy and/or in too much of a >hurry to bother to figure out how to make changes without rebooting. Agreed. -- Dean =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Dean Billing Phone: 530-752-5956 UC Davis FAX: 530-752-6363 IT-CR EMAIL: drbilling(a)ucdavis.edu One Shields Way Davis, CA 95616

27 years, 4 months

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Got a question....PDP? VAX?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<has yet, true clustering. You can grow huge systems modularly and only <have to maintain one system disk. VMS is one of the few that can have a disk farm and a cpu farm as a result of the clustering technology. It's nice in that my MV2000 with it's tiny 159mb disk can be a cluster member to the 3100 allowing common files and all sorts of nice things including common configuration and diskless booting. <>I heard that NT has a lot of VMS engineers behind it. < <This statement might be somewhat true. After M-Squish designed NT, they <hired one of the VMS gurus from DEC and while there have been many A few but not a lot. <modifications to NT to add more VMS like features, it has one giant <drawback, the underlying operating system is UNIX based, the Mach kernel. that and how the protected kernel is not very protected. <software interfaces. NT servers usually crash regularly, i.e. in less tha <a week, sometimes several times a day, especially if anyone is doing <development work on them. Another drawback to NT is that many software <upgrades and application installation/deinstallations require rebooting, <something unheard of with VMS. I run three Nt servers (3.51 SP4) and they are extremely reliable but not heavily loaded. My understanding the NT doesn't load well. Whats funny is a could stuff a 3100m76 in there and replace the whole lot and still have cpu left over. VMS does (over)load gracefully. Allison

27 years, 4 months

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Hazeltine?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<That might have been true many, many years ago, but my involvement with th <mfg of printed circuit boards started in the mid 70's, and that was not th <case from that point on. Second, the statement about dumping copper, nickel Ah I was there and it was done. there were few regulations yes but cost was a driving factor. the intervention was cost when the materiels were worth though to recover and the real pressure in the early 80s. the problem is the crap is still in the soil and spreading 20-30 years later. Allison

27 years, 4 months

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IBM PC 5150 with no drives?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I was joking when I said real-time clock since I thought the PC came with <a real-time clock. Is this not the case? Hmm, come to think of it, I <guess not since I don't see a battery on the MB of this 5150 here. Yep, XT class machines didn't have a TOY CLOCK (TOY is time of year), All the had was a periodic timer interrupt and when you power off so goes the date. Hence the stuff like smart watch. A multi-io card was typically 2 serial, joy stick. either a FDC interface. Most were commonly two serial on one card, a Video and Parallel on another with FDC being stand alone or paired up with the HDC. Clocks were commonly the smart scoket under the bios roms. I have many examples of those here. Allison

27 years, 4 months

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Got a question....PDP? VAX?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<How does passing their building prove that they still make VAXen <(as opposed to Alpha-based hardware)? I still have friends inside. The subtle point being I used to work there and make a point of keeping in touch with the activities of what's left of the old DEC. Also I didn't say making, I said selling. I believe there is little if any VAX chip production going on. <> Also the OS is still current and planned for future for the <> Alpha. < <No, it has already been available for Alpha for eight years. It's not <planned for the future, except in the sense that they are continuing to <support it. Nit picking crap again. I was a Digit when it was ported to Alpha. While nt and Unix was more or less new to alpha I was running a Jenson (early alpha) on my desk and using VMS. Keep in mind I run VAXen, talk to Digits (now Compaq) and live local to the action so to speak. <However, a little more thorough searching reveals that as of January 25, <they still offered: < < VAXstation 4000 Model 96 < MicroVAX 3100 Model 88 < MicroVAX 3100 Model 98 < VAX 4000 Model 108 < VAX 7000 Model 810 (up to six CPUs) Asked and answered. Allison

27 years, 4 months

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Hazeltine?

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Thu, 11 Mar 1999 06:35:55 -0500, Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> wrote: >>The manual for the 1420 has a date of July 1979 on it. The ID tag on the >>terminal indicates that it was manufactured in Greenlawn NY. This building is about a 20 minute drive from my house. It's on Pulaski Road in Greenlawn. The sign outside now says "GEC/Marconi/Hazeltine" and is locally acknowledged as a Superfund site (although I never checked if it made the CERCLA list or not). Place has been there forever and is a pretty unassuming 2-story Government-style office building, but with no fences or razor wire. Looking in, it appears that the interior consists of a cube-farm on the lower floor and some offices on the upper floor. I don't know if there is manufacturing in the rear or not, although it appears overall to be a large building. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <---------------------------- reply separator

27 years, 4 months

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FW: Cleaning My Room

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Attention, would-be rescuers in or near Milwaukee, WI! There's a graduating student (Josh Hulbert) looking to get rid of a VAXen and PDP-11 (unknown model) as freebies. If interested, contact him directly. Best of luck! -=-=- <break> -=-=- Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:26:47 -0600 (CST) From: Joshua Hulbert <hulbertj(a)msoe.edu> To: port-vax(a)netbsd.org Subject: Cleaning My Room Sender: port-vax-owner(a)netbsd.org Delivered-To: port-vax(a)netbsd.org Hello All, I will be graduating at the end of this quarter and moving several hundred miles away from my dorm, so I need to minimize the amount of stuff I take with me. I have the following VAX-related equipment, free for the taking: VS2000, with VR-160-DA, LK201, and puck-mouse. I have the 3-meter long cable for this one. It has an RD-54, and a RAM expansion to 20MB IIRC. I know it boots and runs NetBSD just fine, but there is nothing on the RD54. PDP-11: I know next to nothing about this thing. I picked it up for $10 at American Science and Surplus. From what I could gather, it may have been a terminal server or something. It doesn't have enough RAM to load an OS, but it has some funky ROM card. If anyone is interested, I can send the M-numbers on the cards in the cage. Heres the catch: You have to come get it, as shipping would exceed the value of these boxes. I live in downtown Milwaukee, Wisconsin (USA). Again, if anyone is interested, I can send part numbers on all the parts. Joshua Hulbert Senior Electrical Engineer Milwaukee School of Engineering -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

27 years, 4 months

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[OT] NT, software reliability, and the lack thereof.

by bwit＠ticnet.com

On Monday, March 15, 1999 4:34 PM, Max Eskin [SMTP:max82@surfree.com] wrote: > On 15 Mar 1999, Eric Smith wrote: > >The actual operating system deep in the bowels of Windows NT isn't so > >bad. But they have lventy-seven layers of crap on top of it to keep > >you from seing anything that might be simple and elegant. > > Of course, the kernel can't be blamed for much of anything. I'm sure that > if Microsoft got its hands on VMS source code, they would mess it up, > while if DEC got its hands on NT source code, they would make something > wonderful out of it... > Didn't all the lead technicians who built NT come from DEC? In fact wasn't Dave Cutler, NT head honcho, the designer of VMS? Bob

27 years, 4 months

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classic operating systems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<question: Is there any classic operating system known for which the <complete source code is available ? Well if you took the time to look and read... This is a non exhaustive list of just a few. CPM (8080, z80, 8086, 68000) This also includes all of the CP/M clones such as P2dos, Suprbdos, Zrdos, Zsdos. These can be found at various FTP sites on the net. Uzi Unix (z80, z180, z280) Can be fount as www.psyber.com/~TCJ and also several other versions at FTP sites. Minix (808x, 80x86 and others) the book Operating System Design and Implmentation ISBN 0-13-6386677-6 By Tanenbaum and Woodhull. Also the sources and executables are on the net. Pretty good simplified unix like OS that is source available for teaching and other student/research use. Classic Unix is available with a lowcost license (versions include V5, 6, 7 and a whole load more. RTS-8, OS/8 (also OS278) for PDP-8 family are at various places on the net. This OS is good for illustrating the close relationship of hardware to software. Allison

27 years, 4 months

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IBM PC 5150 with no drives?

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

At 11:59 PM 3/13/99 -0800, you wrote: > >I saw an IBM 5150 today in a thrift store. The odd thing about it was >that it had no disk drives! It only had two black covers over the disk >drive bays. It seems like it came from the factory this way. It is the >first revision of motherboard with the cassette jack, so its conceivable >that it was used with a cassette recorder and was always like this. Does >anyone wish to concur on this? I'm debating if I should get it, but not >for the $20 they have it tagged for. Sure 'nuff. The original configuration of the IBM PC had no drives, and 4k of memory. Diagnostics and a utility or two on Cassette (altho the cassette player was optional?!?). BASIC in the ROM so it could be programmed... Back in the days when a single floppy drive and controller was a (apx. $900 option) Frighteningly enough... I remember selling quite a few of them in that (cassette only) configuration. -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 4 months

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PS/2 external storage device cables

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 15.3.1999 6:44:26 Eastern Standard Time, rhblake(a)bigfoot.com writes: > Mike Ford wrote: > > > I just put these on a newsgroup, and realized somebody here might need > > them. I found 3 new old stock IBM 23F2716 cables in a box I bought. I > think > > they are for a model 70 external floppy drive, looks like a HDI30 to DB37F, > > > but thats just guessing. $5 each and shipping. After searching for hours, i finally found out what cable this is. It connects the 4869 external floppy to the P70 suitcase PS/2. Not of any use to anyone who doesnt own those two items. david

27 years, 4 months

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IBM PC 5150 with no drives?

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> wrote: > IBM's braindead decision to have 5 (instead of 8) expansion slots meant > that aftermarket "multifunction" cards became quite popular. MANY of > them advertised SIX functions; after memory, serial, parallel, and > joystick, how many people remember what purported to be the other two > functions? #5 was the battery-backed-up real-time clock, and I have this vague recollection that #6 was something not directly on the card but software which used the card, something like a RAMdisk driver. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 4 months

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List Transactions

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Before we mount a full-scale Salem Witch hunt... allow me to say that I have had many pleasant dealings with my friends on this list, and other lists... the percentage of deals gone sour has been very low. Andrew Carnegie said: "It is better to be occasionally cheated, than forever suspicious.." And I can confess that there a few Nice People here on Classicmp to whom I have promised to send various items; the promise still exists but I have flaked out so far. Sorry Eric, Dave, Megan, Ian, .... :] (In my defense: absolutely *no money* is involved in these deals, most I am even shipping myself. And packing. And lugging..) If I have sent you money, and you cannot complete your end of it for some reason... send me the money back. Or tell me *when* you can complete the deal. Or offer me something else I might want. Or at least **tell** me that the item(s) and my money are no longer available, and why that is so. Shit happens....at least give me the true info and let me see what I can do. But disappearing with someone else's funds is.. theft. That's all. Confess your sins! Con-feesss you sins!! con-fesss your siiiins!!! Or we shall torture you wiiiithhhh... The COMFY CHAIR!!!!! Cheers John

27 years, 4 months

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TSR-80 Model 4 keyboard problems

by bluoval＠mindspring.com

When i hit some keys, it displays the wrong letter. Sometimes it displays all caps then all lower case. What's wrong with it? How do i fix it?

27 years, 4 months

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Got a question....PDP? VAX?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Larry: Buck: < <Given your start in computing in the mid-fifties, you must now be <in your mid-sixties. I was one who started in the early 70's (as <early as my 12-th year) and am now 41. The machine was <an IBM 370/155 with 1MB of main memory, and the language was <APL (APL*PLUS from Scientific Time Sharing). I have at 46 te dubious honor of bridging both. I started however with small computers in the late 60s and the PDP-8 the whole of wich was three 6' racks was my idea of an approachable system. I was also priesthood incarnate in that for the small computer revolution I was there and part of it. To me a "big" cpu weighed about 80-110 pounds and only partially filled one of those racks. The 8008 (1972-3) and later the 8080 were part of my life as I was there on the edge pushing it. I never put a "good old" or "bad old" sticker as that was where things were and even then it was clear the target was a fast moving one. Allison

27 years, 4 months

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classic operating systems

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

Hi all, thank you for the extensive replies. What I meant was "available for a reasonable price", which is not more than a few hundred $ in my mind, so the PUPS offering really appeals to me most. Thanks and regards John G. Zabolitzky

27 years, 4 months

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Yesterday's hamfest & manual FT

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

Yesterday's snow kept all but about 8 tailgaters from coming to the York Springfest, resulting in a rather dissapointing show. I managed to get an Apple IIe for $2, an IBM Model 25 for $5, and a bunch of manuals (including some for the IBM System/36), but that was about it. I got two copies of "IBM Maintenance Library - 3278 Display Station Models 1,2,3,and 4 Maintenance Information". Anybody want the second one ($5 shipped), or wish to trade for it (intersted in books on interfacing the Apple II)? I also purchased a book called "Master Transistor/IC Substitution Handbook. A GIANT one-stop, easy-to-use manual that gives you commonly available replacements for over 80,000 U.S. and foreign tranistors and ICs...plus basing diagrams." (c)1977, 517 pages. Looks like it could be a useful reference, if the the replacement part numbers are still up to date. If somebody _really_ has a use for this book, let me know. Tom Owad

27 years, 4 months

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TSR-80 model 4

by bluoval＠mindspring.com

Does anyone know what this computer goes for? When i start it up, the screen is full of strange characters. I hit the orange button and then the drive lights go on and the bottom drive light stays on. The prompt is: Diskette? I don't have any disks for it. I just picked it up yesterday. What's wrong with it? How can i fix it? does anyone have any disks for it? Also, there is a guy at a flea market where i live who has a room full of old computer junk. That's where i picked up this computer. I've seen an Apple II plus with disk drive, a couple of TI99 4/As, and many old modems. There is also a very old Compaq portable, and about 5 Commadores. Who knows what else is in there. Is anyone interested in any of these? Let me know.

27 years, 4 months

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Hazeltine?

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> >of toxic wastes were *legally* disposed of with all the associated >government regulations that the government is now coming back and looking >for money to clean up sites they had approved as safe. A favorite saying of >mine is "There would be no such thing as the environmental movement were it >not for scientific illiteracy." Yes, it is an overstatement, but there is That resonates well with one of my favorites: If you add a drop of wine to a barrell of shit, you have a barrell of shit. If you add a drop of shit to a barrell of wine, you have a barrell of shit. - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 4 months

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Planning for an equipment move...

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Since I don't have a class two license, I can't get a truck with a >lift gate, The two aren't mutually exclusive. Several times I've rented a lift-gate truck, usually from Budget, to move a machine. Now this was always on the West Coast, and it's possible that on the other coast that the laws are different, or that the truck companies just don't want to risk renting to folks who probably don't know how to run a lift. You might also try some of the non-UHaul-non-Budget- non-Ryder companies in your neighborhood (the kind that rent tractors and bulldozers) and see if they'll rent you a liftgate. > so I was planning on unloaded all the boxes from the racks >(CPU, disks, anything else) and placing them on shipping pads, the >disks with foam pads underneath. I was planning on tipping the racks >over onto dollies to be wheeled up the ramp into the truck where they >would travel on their sides, on mats. Sounds like a fine plan. Note that many medium-sized station wagons will hold a single H960, too. Get yourself nice dollies with pneumatic wheels if at all possible. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 4 months

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Got a question....PDP? VAX?

by hhacker＠home.com

Larry: Given your start in computing in the mid-fifties, you must now be in your mid-sixties. I was one who started in the early 70's (as early as my 12-th year) and am now 41. The machine was an IBM 370/155 with 1MB of main memory, and the language was APL (APL*PLUS from Scientific Time Sharing). Well, it is true that the machines of the 50's were the so called Unit Record devices and the low quality mainframes of the day, like the 7090, the 1620 (if I get the numbering correct) and the 1401 (all of IBM fame). I had the privilege of working with such Unit Record devices, and even to have programmed a few of the old style plug boards. I am greatful that those days are over! William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Walker <lwalker(a)mail.interlog.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 10:28 PM Subject: Re: Got a question....PDP? VAX? On 12 Mar 99 at 17:53, Mike Ford wrote: > >Hi! > > > >I've been growing up in the age of "IBM era" of computers. The only non-IBM > >(compatible) computers that I've worked on was an apple //c and a TRS-80 > >model III that nearly caught my basement on fire. I'm 16 years old, so I > >haven't had any experience with any pre 1980's stuff (other than the //c). > > > >What I'm wondering, is what exactly is a PDP, or a VAX, or an Altair, or any > >of the other things that come up frequently on the list. Also - how is one > >of the computers (such as the Altair) operated, with all the switches and > >indicators? Is there a keyboard or a monitor with it? > > Wow, do you want the one or two paragraph history of computing as we know it? > > Maybe Moore's law explains it best, every couple of years computers get > twice as fast, for half the money and size. Now Start with a typical > present day Pentibum II 400 Mhz 128 MB ram 10 GB hard drive that sells for > $2000 and go back in time 20 years (about 10 of Moore's cycles). Computers > were 1000 times slower, bigger, and more expensive. That was a different > world, and you had to treat such valuable resources differently. People, > and really only a small favored few, had to share the computers, and time > 24 hours a day was highly prized. > > Around 1970 a computer about as powerfull as a present day $100 calculator > cost about $10 million and required a large secure and temperature > controlled room. That was the mainstream of mainframe computers. The > computer was the size of a kids play house, and all around it in the large > room were "peripherals" designed to keep the main cpu busy working all the > time. > > Away from the main IBM oriented data processing shops, dozens of smaller > companies fought for the minicomputer market. Smaller, and less powerfull > in absolute terms, these units were targeted at the scientific and > industrial users who needed the computational or control that only > computers allowed. Minicomputers weren't that different from mainframes, > just scaled down in some senses, and optimized in others. > > Digital Equipment Corporation, DEC was one of these minicomputer companies, > and its PDP line was hugely popular in many areas. Industry, banking, > telephone, and most important universities. The DEC PDP series became the > platform that many computer scientists experiemented on, and many students > still didn't get to use. As Moores law improved the lot, the VAX line came > out, and people logged on with gusto forever after. > > Oh, those switches and lights are mostly because the hardware and software > used to screw up fairly often, and by looking at the lights, and flipping > switches the operation of the computer could be single stepped (one > instruction per button push) and errors identified so they could be > corrected. > Wow, great thread. Thanks Jason. I tend to think of the evolution of computers in physical relation to myself. In an incarnation in the mid-fifties, I worked for a large government department as a "junior IBM operator" I worked sorting IBM cards, reproducing cards that were "bent, mutillated, and spindalled", and wired peg-boards to interpret the data contained on those cards, which were "punched" by a room-full of typist "punch-card operators". Even tho this was a large gov. apparatus, the machines could only be "leased" not bought from IBM and even some programs were rented. In a temperature-controlled room filled with machines spinning large metal tape-reels were the "high priests" of this genre. I never entered that room. It had windows where you could see the esoteric operatives at work. In the 70's I worked for a large railway keeping track of boxcars entering and leaving the Yard. I would write up a report each day and submit it to the computer room. Again, a temperature and environment controlled room, but the "priests" were fellow workers who, tho aloof, I could talk to. And I could even enter the "temple" Fast forward to the early eighties in a tech school. Each student had a terminal ID to access the main computers but they were at another location which I never saw. The school could even have been renting service space from another provider. But in the course I actually used a real computer more or less, an ET3400, to explore the godlike ways. We also had a trainer in which you could enter and step thru each program using switches with LED indicators. In a tech-course a few years later I was introduced to floppydisks using an Osbourne. We smoked and drank cokes using them. To me the great flowering of the 8-bits was the demystifying of computer arts. Unfortunately, I feel OS2, Win9x, and NT are removing us from that control ,as against the "high Priests" of VAX. It's amusing to remember that my professors looked blank when I asked them about Unix in 83 after reading about it in "Electronics" magazine. I explained it as simply a method of disk storage organisation and access. Altho the computer world has changed mightily I think the "deification" remains with the minis and mainframes and Unix is it's theology. I appreciate Linux precisely because it has an empowering feel to it. That is the glory of the personal computer. I have a PDP-8 maintenance manual and an IBM VS360/370 programmers manual and at some point I will study them. But neither can give me the joy of an old "populist" 8-bit programming manual, with a code-bloatless program to automate your toaster on a 64k ram machine. That was elegance. Flame away. ciao larry lwalker(a)interlog.com

27 years, 4 months

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more "stuff" . . .

by edick＠idcomm.com

For those individuals interested in HPIB stuff that's unusual, I have an MSC 9305 HPIB ST-506 interface hard disk controller. This product was one I bought in 1981 and never used, but since the hardware and its documentation are in the same place at the moment, I thought I'd see if someone wanted it worse than I do. It has great potential as a data logger or even a traffic recorder. I'm up for a trade, with my target being some sort of fairly simple SBC with resident firmware and documentation. An evaluation board from MOT or somthing on that order would suffice, I think, provided it's functional and documented. regards, Dick ---------- > From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: wanted: muMath and/or muLisp for Apple II or CP/M > Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 4:38 PM > > Eric- > > Check with me next time you're in Denver. I may still have the software > somewhere, but I know I had the CP/M-version documents in my hand about a > week ago. > > Dick > > ---------- > > From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > > Subject: wanted: muMath and/or muLisp for Apple II or CP/M > > Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 3:22 PM > > > > I seem to have misplaced my copies of muMath and muLisp for > > the Apple II. If anyone would like to sell their old ones > > to me, please let me know. The CP/M version would also be > > of interest. If all else fails, I could live with the > > PC-DOS version, but I don't want Derive (the product that > > replaced muMath). > > > > Thanks! > > Eric

27 years, 4 months

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TSR-80 Model 4 keyboard problems

by fauradon＠pclink.com

That depends on how much of it you drink at once. But in moderation It should be ok. Your mileage may vary. I'm not going to sign this one ;) > >Would alcohol damage anything? > >

27 years, 4 months

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classic operating systems

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> Some DEC OS's such as RT-11 come with > most if not all of the source. A regular RT-11 distribution comes with source for the monitors and drivers, with most all the comments stripped out. You also get the uncommented macro libraries. You don't get the sources for any except a few of the utilities (*.SAV's). A source kit for RT-11 gets you the commented sources to the monitors, drivers, and utilities. A few things are still missing (MACRO-11 and CREF, mainly because these are now built under VMS.) Believe me, the commented sources are much more interesting! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 4 months

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classic operating systems

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>question: Is there any classic operating system known for which the >complete source code is available ? What do you mean by "available"? Freely distributable? Hmm, some of the FigForths fall in this category (if you want to call them OS's), and OS/8 is there too. Easily acquired? There are several disassemblies of CP/M-80 and Apple DOS 3.3 floating around in various places, but these aren't the "official" sources - they're a disassembly. The PL/M sources to CP/M-80 are also available, though I've never quite figured out how to go from the PL/M to the executables. You can get the source if you hand over enough $? Sure, lots of minicomputer OS's fall in this category. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 4 months

1
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IBM PC 5150 with no drives?

by mbg＠world.std.com

>5140 PC convertable (laptop) ? I have several of these... as I mention on my web page (of home systems), it's not so much a portable computer as it is a *luggable* computer... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 4 months

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Got a question....PDP? VAX?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I'm not convinced. I couldn't find any listed as current products on <www.digital.com or on www.compaq.com. And WWW.anything.com is the absolute authority? ;) They are still selling them... I only pass the place (Maynard and LKG) everyday. Also the OS is still current and planned for future for the Alpha. Though Compaq did extend and improve the hobbiest license to include layered products and more recent versions of VMS. Allison

27 years, 4 months

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Got a question....PDP? VAX?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<successful. The processors were used in a wide variety of machines. The <VAX is DEC's first 32-bit machine. It used an OS called VMS, which some <people like a lot for some reason, to the point of still using it. I heard <that NT has a lot of VMS engineers behind it. An Altair is an early 8-bit VMS is still used for one reason beyond preference, it's a 24x365 robust operating system that even memory loss doesn't crash. VMS is still a production operating system V7.2 or V7.3 I think is current. VAXen are still sold by Compaq and VMS is also the OS for Alpha along with unix-64 and NT. Nt has Cutler (only real name) who used to be of the DEC RSX-11 (foundation for VMS) fame. <as a kit and was poorly designed/unreliable. Although the Altair used some <medieval methods of programming, in later machines like the IMSAI, one <would generally use a dumb terminal and resort to the front panel for <debugging purposes. OK, now you may correct everything I said :) Right on target. Most people even then lusted and used some form of terminal rather than wear out fingers on the front pannel. Even altair users had terminals of some sort. the most common use for the front pannel was for code that was not configured for the IO in use (no standards) so you would single stp through the IO portion, write it all down by hand and then hand patch it for what IO was in use. Allison

27 years, 4 months

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classic operating systems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<CP/M. You can download the source, but it's not "Free Software". You hav <to get a license from Caldera for commercial use. Inflact the only question was is the source available (no other qualifiers). Ok then P2dos, a clone that is a direct replacement and improved. there are others (suprbdos, Zsdos, Zrdos). See my earlier post. The question didn't qualify commercial or not. If you allow for non commercial/student use the list is quite large. Allison

27 years, 4 months

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wanted: muMath and/or muLisp for Apple II or CP/M

by edick＠idcomm.com

Eric- Check with me next time you're in Denver. I may still have the software somewhere, but I know I had the CP/M-version documents in my hand about a week ago. Dick ---------- > From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: wanted: muMath and/or muLisp for Apple II or CP/M > Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 3:22 PM > > I seem to have misplaced my copies of muMath and muLisp for > the Apple II. If anyone would like to sell their old ones > to me, please let me know. The CP/M version would also be > of interest. If all else fails, I could live with the > PC-DOS version, but I don't want Derive (the product that > replaced muMath). > > Thanks! > Eric

27 years, 4 months

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classic operating systems

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

Hi all, question: Is there any classic operating system known for which the complete source code is available ? Thanks and regards John G. Zabolitzky

27 years, 4 months

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IBM PC 5150 with no drives?

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I saw an IBM 5150 today in a thrift store. The odd thing about it was >that it had no disk drives! It only had two black covers over the disk >drive bays. It seems like it came from the factory this way. It is the >first revision of motherboard with the cassette jack, so its conceivable >that it was used with a cassette recorder and was always like this. Does >anyone wish to concur on this? I'm debating if I should get it, but not >for the $20 they have it tagged for. Interesting... I had a machine in one of the piles at work (I have a second office, called the 'Annex' where I do hardware hacking for my group on occasion, and stuff gets dumped there) which I recently excessed, and it had 'IBM-PC' on it, along with 5150 on one of the labels... But it had a fair amount of memory in it, and a hard disk drive in it... Should I have saved it and tried to purchase it from the company? Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 4 months

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Planning for an equipment move...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I know of no laws relating lift vs. ramp on anything related to <special class licenses, though perhaps there might be something <special enacted in the People's Republic of Massachusetts. You <might inquire at rental places over the line in NH where (most) <of the laws are a bit less draconian. there is none in MA save for lift gates are not toys(trained users) and they are usually found on class-2 sized trucks. Allison

27 years, 4 months

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FS: CBM 8050 drive

by cfandt＠netsync.net

I'm finding stuff that was buried in the uncharted, uncivilized regions of the basement over at the old house. I have a Commodore CBM 8050 Dual Disk drive unit. Originally it was with a CBM 8032 that's long been disposed of. Don't know condition as I have no way to test it now. Anybody want it for whatever you may want to offer? I'm easy! Consider that shipping weight may be around 15-20 lbs from zip 14701. I'll likely have more odds 'n' ends that I don't need and will post them here for you. Just gotta dig through the pile. I found some old radio and TV parts today that I had back when I was in high school (figure '68 - '71). An archeologist's playground over there ;) Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa

27 years, 4 months

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IBM PC 5150 with no drives?

by danburrows＠mindspring.com

>IBM's braindead decision to have 5 (instead of 8) expansion slots meant >that aftermarket "multifunction" cards became quite popular. MANY of >them advertised SIX functions; after memory, serial, parallel, and >joystick, how many people remember what purported to be the other two >functions? clock and ??? memory fade. Dan > >But the original $1320 5150 was devoid of drives and cards. ** FS >(after I back off all of the mods and put the original pieces back in) ** > >-- >Fred Cisin cisin(a)xenosoft.com >XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com >2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 >Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 > >

27 years, 4 months

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DEC PathWorks available

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

I have several packages of DEC PathWorks software available as follows. PathWorks 4.1 for DOS (media and docs, three packages in the set). PathWorks 4.1 for OpenVMS (media and docs, two packages in the set). PathWorks 5 for OpenVMS LAN Manager (whatever the heck that is, media and docs, two boxes in the set). Since I plan on using NetBSD and TCP/IP for my main networking functions, I don't see that I'll ever need this stuff. Best offer takes the lot. Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

27 years, 4 months

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Definitely OT: Apple Network Server 500

by ckaiser＠oa.ptloma.edu

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1722 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990310/583cba83/at…

27 years, 4 months

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Planning for an equipment move...

by mbg＠world.std.com

It's an hour trip up to where they are... I'd rather not make multiple 2-hour drives if I can help it, which is why I'm trying for a truck. Someone mentioned Budget... I'm going to contact them... Megan

27 years, 4 months

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AES 7100 photos

by ds_spenc＠alcor.concordia.ca

For those of you that requested photos of the AES 7100, I just put some up on my web site. I was exceptionally lazy about carrying stuff around, so I just used the family television set as my monitor for grabbing and cropping the pictures. I hope they're in focus. :) -- Doug Spence ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/

27 years, 4 months

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items purchased from Tony Dellett

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Yeah, tony was supposed to send a 'parts only' c-128, and maybe a 1571, but I haven't heard from him. I haven't pursued this for two reasons: I haven't sent him any money, and he has had a seriously life-changing experience, leaving destruction in its wake. SO, anyway, is there a way to properly handle deadbeats onthis list? There's someone I'd like to publicly embarass, but I'm unsure if it would be the proper thing to do. . . . Jeff On 13 Mar 1999 20:07:02 -0000 Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> writes: >Back in November, Tony Dellett posted to this list a message offering >a bunch of items for sale. A copy is attached below. > >Would anyone who purchased items from Tony please send me private >email? > >Thanks! >Eric >------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- >Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:24:10 -0500 >Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu >Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu >From: "Dellett, Anthony" <Anthony.Dellett(a)Staples.com> >To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Subject: Spring Cleaning >X-To: "'classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu'" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > >I know it's not spring but it is time for me to thin out my >collection. I'm >offering these for sale here first before sending them off to ebay. > >Email me with offers to anthony.dellett(a)staples.com. I dont get time >to >check the list much so posing a reply there will get you nowhere. > >Atari 800 (not working, parts?) >Atari 1050 Disk Drive (two of them) >Commodore 64 (complete in box, I have two like this) >Commodore 1541 Disk Drive (2 in box, one works, one doesn't) >Commodore 1541 II Disk Drive (complete in box) >Commodore 128 (complete in box) >Commodore 1571 Disk Drive (complete in box) >Compupro S-100 Enclosure (motherboard and PS only, no cards) >IMSAI 8080 W/8080 Processor Card, SIO4 (Godbout w/docs), RAM64 >(Godbout >w/docs), PIO8 (IMSAI) >Kaypro I (incl. boot disk) >Kaypro II (incl. boot disk) >Kaypro IV (incl. boot disk) >NorthStar Horizon (not working) >NorthStar Advantage (works completely, with boot disk) >Osborne I (not working) >Osborne Executive (incl. boot disk) >Processor Technology SOL w/SOLOS personality module >Sanyo CP/M System (with software) >TI-99/4A Computer (beige model, in box) >TRS-80 Model III (with some software) > >8" DS/DD Floppy Drive (in wooden enclosure) and Controller (Godbout >w/docs) >8" SS/SD Floppy Drive (no enclosure) >8" SS/SD Dual Drive Subsystem (ICOM) >8" Hard Disk Drive in enclosure w/controller (Fujitsu Hard Drive, >Godbout >Controller w/docs) > >I also have some random Commodore stuff that I cant remember (modem, >paddles, trackball, etc...) I can take a closer look if anyone is >interested. > >A word of warning... I'd like to sell these things to someone on the >list >but I'll only accept "reasonable" offers. > >Tony ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 4 months

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Items Available for Trade

by guerney＠uq.net.au

Said Kevin McQuiggen: >A real longshot would >be anything related to the IBM 1620, docs, software. Back in 1978 the University Dept where I worked gave away its IBM 1620 (had been working regularly up till then) and I managed to grab a copy of "Programming the IBM 1620" by Clarence Germain, 2nd ed., 1965 from the bin. Contains 192 pages of detail on the hardware and Fortran and ML programming. I would be prepared to photocopy it if it was of real use to someone - they would have to pay photocopying and postage - about $US20 +/- $US5 all up. Phil in Brisbane, Australia.

27 years, 4 months

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Planning for an equipment move...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Sat Mar 13 16:24:50 1999 <Return-Path: <CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu> <Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0 < id AA06221; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:24:41 -0500 <Received: from host (server(a)lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) < by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.02/8.9.3+UW99.01) with SMTP id NAA1 < Sat, 13 Mar 1999 13:24:35 -0800 <Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7] < by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.02/8.9.3+UW99.01) with ESMTP id NAA4 < for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 13:24:31 -0800 <Received: from mail.30below.com (mail.30below.com [12.15.88.1]) < by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.02/8.9.3+UW99.01) with SMTP id NAA317 < for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 13:24:30 -0800 <Received: (qmail 32229 invoked from network); 13 Mar 1999 22:13:53 -0000 <Received: from zmerch.30below.com (HELO zmerch) (12.15.88.12) < by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 1999 22:13:53 -0000 <Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990313163735.00950790(a)mail.30below.com> <Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:37:35 -0500 <Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu <Precedence: bulk <From: Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)30below.com> <To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washingto <Subject: Re: Planning for an equipment move... <In-Reply-To: <v04011706b3107923550c(a)[192.168.1.2]> <References: <19990313191751.18176.qmail(a)brouhaha.com> < <990313110353.20200677(a)trailing-edge.com> <Mime-Version: 1.0 <Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" <X-Sender: zmerch(a)mail.30below.com <X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN <Status: R < <Once upon a midnight dreary, Zane H. Healy had spoken clearly: < <>in the back of my current pickup. I'm wondering if the smaller pickups <>along the lines of a Chevy S-10 can handle that. < <Altho they did make longbox (8 foot) boxes on the S-10 line, they're prett <tough to find. Otherwise, an S10 will fit anything 6 foot even... or maybe I have a toyota (1982!) and with the gate down 8Ft items are no problem. It has in the last year moved 12 VS3100s, 15 Vt320s, 8 S100 crates and atlest 8 8" disk pairs, several racks 8 assorted telvideo unknown number of printers and monitors. If I could get it in it or on it, it moved. <Weight-wise - I've found the S10 line to be quite capable. They're standar <1/2-ton, but I've had over 3/4 ton in the back of mine, once... I pulled Same with the toyota, the Chevy LUV (it was the predecessor to S10). So considering I drive 100mi a day with it at 162,000 its solid enough. Pickup trucks regardless of the size are really great for moving computer hardware and the Vans or their kin are a good second choice. Weight is not a limiting factor as more often you cube out first. Allison

27 years, 4 months

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0
0 0

2026

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

test-drb