- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by edick＠idcomm.com

Marvin, you're right on the money! Sam objects to "idiots" bidding against presumably rational people and allowing the prices to escalate (he believes) due to the auction atmosphere presented by eBay. I don't happen to agree with him. The people who sell their good at auction wish for a ridiculously hign price. They don't often get it. The notion that these high bidders are idiots is false, however. You remember what was paid for John Kennedy's cigar Humidor? Well only an idiot would pay that for a humidor, right? It's the market that determines what an item is worth at any given time, and these "idiots" are free to roam the market, as are those who hope that THEIR Altair serial I/O board will look, to someone else, like JFK's humidor. It's true, that eBay seeks to benefit by this overall-inane-if-not-insane auction environment, simply because their fee is tied to the final bid offered. Sam objects to this, while I object to the high precentage of failed transactions which eBay freely admits. I also dislike the fact that eBay charges for the price and not for the amount paid, which, in the failed transactions, is nil. A few days ago, I was visiting Best Buy, which is a common source of computer hardware at reasonable prices. I declined to pay $180 for a 10GB hard disk because I though the price was a mite high. That was not the only reason, but it was a factor. Twenty years ago, I paid $1500 for a 5MB Winchester drive. Lots of other people thought the price was a mite high, but I paid the price, believing that I needed the drive more than I needed the $1500. Does that make me an idiot? Does that make all the people who didn't buy the things twenty years ago fools? I think not. All this is an allusion to the fact that it's called a "free" market. I guess that means that there's no restriction against fools and idiots. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, March 20, 1999 1:38 AM Subject: Re: sellers market > > >Sellam Ismail wrote: >> >> On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Marvin wrote: > >> Yes, an open market WITH MECHANISMS IN PLACE TO ENCOURAGE THE RAMPANT >> ESCALATION OF PRICES BEYOND ANY REASONABLE ASSUMPTION OF "FAIR MARKET >> VALUE"! Look me straight in the eye and tell me that you think the way >> eBay structures its service does not lead to unreasonable price >> speculation on the part of buyers? >> >> The price an idiot decides to pay for a certain something does not and >> should not define what the rest of us should have to pay! > >Are you interested in getting a hot topic going for VCF III? Put me down on >the panel to debate the function online auctions play in determining >pricing, and the relationship of that pricing to perceived value. > >Your statement about MECHANISMS IN PLACE is interesting, but anyone who >stops to think will realize that any type of marketing will produce the same >results. So why are you trying to make ebay a special case (which it is >not)? > >Since this is getting seriously off topic, I'll let it drop, but you might >want to consider this topic for VCF III! > >> I'm throwing my support behind whatever effort takes place to create a >> free buy/sell/trade bulletin board. Its something I've been wanting to do >> for a while, and I think the time is right. I see a need and a purpose >> for it, and it will be a great year round anchor for the VCF activities, >> which is why I'd be willing to put whatever time and money it takes to >> bring it to fruition and have it sponsored by the VCF. > >Free? I think this is a great idea, but generally speaking, "free" to one >person can be expensive to another. To name just one example, VCF. You have >put a great deal of time, effort, AND money into getting it up and running >with minimal cost to participants. > > I think a better idea would be to have niche market mini-online auctions, >and charge accordingly. I don't think I have ever found someone who objected >to ebay charges.

27 years, 4 months

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Fw: Pre-history of Digital Research

by fpp＠concentric.net

An important thing to remember is that the Original IMSAI sold for almost $1000. SO even though a new Pentium II 400 is only $1000 with all the bells and whistles there is a cost savings due to selling hundres of thousands of the thing. An IMSAI kit maybe a few hundred or so.

27 years, 4 months

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Fw: Welcome Back! {IMSAI}

by edick＠idcomm.com

I wrote Tom Fischer a few lines this morning, about the niche his "products of yesteryear" could fill in today's world. It's quoted below in his reply. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Fischer <TRF(a)imsai.net> To: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> Date: Saturday, March 20, 1999 10:51 AM Subject: Re: Welcome Back! ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Erlacher To: mail(a)imsai.net Sent: Saturday, March 20, 1999 7:40 AM Subject: Welcome Back! It's good to see you back, offering to support these venerable and still thoroughly useful microcomputers. Many of the functions which were commonly used back in the 1970's and '80's, but which are no longer supported in current generation microcomputers, are still valuable and in demand. Today, however, it is necessary to build custom hardware, often requiring a larger investment than it did in the '70's, to provide a simple function. It's not unusual to have an entire PC devoted to the handling of a few bits of control and monitoring, which was straightforward to handle back in "the good old days" with a parallel or serial port board which could be used to handle much more without taxing the CPU. I still use the old Intel boards, which I admittedly bought at inflated prices back in those days, to provide simple control and communication functions not convenient to provide with an entire PC. You may be surprised to find how much of the interest in the old S-100 boards there is today, not for the many hobbyists interested in "retrocomputing," but from persons like me, whose primary interest is in exploiting the control and monitoring capabilities of these systems. regards, Dick Erlacher Hi again, Dick- I started writing a "short reply" to your e-mail, but an hour later I have this. You brought out a few points that I've been meaning to articulate for a while, so here's a first draft. A modified form of this will appear on the imsai web page http://imsai.net as a call for comment from all interested parties. Thanks for your interest! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've been living "in a bubble" with respect to how current desires and requirements for the older machines are concerned, so forgive me for a bit of historical rambling and perspective. Your input is desperately needed in order for me to fulfill some, in not all, of the requirements to be implemented in the new embodiment of the IMSAI line. I'm going to experiment with the concept of letting the user-to-be provide input about the architecture and bus requirements, perhaps developing a second-generation evolution to the venerable S-100 standard. In the mid-70's we started to explore the capabilities of those early machines and were fascinated with the ability to achieve higher-level logic and control functions in an open-architecture environment. The tremendous appeal was demonstrated by the sudden explosion of hobbyist computing magazines, hitherto non-existent, save for Radio-Electronics and Popular Electronics as examples of general circulation. Those of us involved in serious electronic design subscribed to professional publications such as Electronics (with my favorite "Electronic Casebook" feature), Electronic Design, IEEE Computer, etc. Subsequently we were witness to the unravelling and experimentation with newer levels of logic and integration of both digital and analogue design. We went from the cumbersome multi-voltage logic families like DTL and RTL (hobbyists couldn't practically afford ECL logic with its superior speed and high power requirements), to the infant TTL and later CMOS variants which eventually would prove practical for most design requirements. As the first logic families began to stabilize in popularity and standardization we build the TV Typewriter, the MARK 8 computer (based on newcomer INTEL's 8008 traffic light controller chip), and the CYCLOPS video capture device. Then, MITS sprang the ALTAIR 8800 on us. A bit later came the ALTAIR 680 which used the Motorola 6800 processor. The S-100 bus was an expensive entry into this infant field, but it allowed anyone armed with just a bit of electrical and mechanical know-how to build a machine that could interface to a televison, perform mathmatical operations, monitor and control machinery and remote functions and limitless other possibilites, all at 1 or 2 Mhz clock speeds, and with as little as 1K of RAM! Anyone could conceive and build a real-time clock board, a sound board, expansion memory board, I/O board, video display or capture board, interface to mass storage devices, limited only by the imagination. Like Henry Ford's Model T offered in bare-bones dress to the populace, the S-100 machines like ALTAIR and IMSAI brought entrepreneurial opportunity to the kitchen table! The more "left-brained" of us became programmers; the High Priests, writing clever code that would tame the cumbersome process of hand-loading instructions into the machine's memory. They ported software like assemblers, compilers, interpreters, BASIC and other high-level languages down from University and Corporate mainframe systems down to the microcomputer. The simple "Kill The Lights" program offered free with the first IMSAIs was an example of perhaps 60 instructions that had to be toggled into memory by various manipulations of the address and data switches, stepped by the EXAMINE, DEPOSIT, and SINGLE STEP switches. It seems archaic today but back then the wonder of this machine doing something marvelous because YOU built it AND programmed it was joyous beyond belief. (we were easily amused :) This S-100 architecture became "The Peoples' Architecture" and it flourished like nothing before it for perhaps a dozen years until eclipsed by the PC which, although still open-architecture (and superbly documented by IBM), was a magnitude of order more complicated and structured. Now the experimenter or designer had to master a BIOS, a more complicated bus structure, and a more expensive platform on which to prototype or design on. The increase in "horsepower" necessitated significantly greater expense and resources. I feel that the same situation still exists. Witness the popularity of Parallax' BASIC STAMP and embedded controllers in all forms like the PIC series, INTEL and MOTOROLA families, etc. These architectures are removed from the increasingly complicated structure embodied in the AT class of PC. I would like to propose a return to the basics in purpose and stategy. To encourage a leaner, more focused and straight-forward compromise between hardware and software considerations. To once again provide a development platform that is classic and utilitarian in purpose. There are two IMSAI machines planned for later this year. The first is a limited editon Platinum Classic machine featuring the front panel design and function that made it so popular in 1976. Inside, it will house a powerful Pentium-class motherboard on par with the most advanced Dell or Gateway machines, and high-wattage switching power supply. The front panel will have an embedded controller and interface for the still-to-be-defined bus, which will allow expansion in the same manner as the original S-100 architecture. Included will be a three-channel programmable Infrared communications link to allow interface and communications with virtually any device within IR range. A video bus, perhaps S-video, is also planned as a feature. The bus structure is open to comment, and a preliminary specification will be offered on http://imsai.net within the next couple of weeks. The second IMSAI machine will be similar with respect to the above, but will not include the PC motherboard, although provision will be allowed for the user to install his/her own. The front panel capabilities will be the same, but perhaps with limited capabilities installed (but upgradeable). It will look very much like the original IMSAI 8080 in color and proportion, but will probably NOT include the OCTAL representation under the HEXADECIMAL switch lableing like the original. I think that only octal-notation advocate George "flat Earth" Morrow would miss that feature. Let me know if you disagree. As for putting the original S-100 machine back in production, I think it would have to sell for around $1200.00 and require guaranteed sales of at least 500 units to make it a reality. But with IMSAI's and ALTAIR's selling for $3000 to$4000 on the internet, maybe that's a bargain! With a warranty to boot! I think we can all do better by embracing the new proposed standard. Please e-mail me with your comments, and pass the word. Best regards, -Thomas Fischer

27 years, 4 months

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S-100 bus specs

by edick＠idcomm.com

The standard allowed for 16-bit use, but no more AFIK. The IEEE696 standard provided for 24 bits of address and 16 bits of data. However, since the signals on the S-100 were designed for the old 8080 functonal model, and most of the signals which were required to run a computer's bus were simpler than the model around which the S-100 was designed, the adoption of the standard simply served to kill the S-100 bus. What's more, with its on-card voltage regulation, far too much heat was generated in these linear regulators for the technology which was current. This required fans and fans were noisy enough to be objectionable on the desktop, which was the new environment for computers. The '696 standard defined cards which wouldn't work with the old versions and which required far too much fiddling with the newer processors' bus control signals to allow for a simple and elegant design solution, so the bus simply went away, more or less of its own weight. A decent reference for the S-100, though not a web site, is the Osborne/McGraw-Hill book Interfacing to S-100/IEEE 696 Computers by Sol Libes and Mark Garetz. This should give you all you need if you can find a copy. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Arfon Gryffydd <arfonrg(a)texas.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, March 18, 1999 12:30 PM Subject: Re: S-100 bus specs >Is the S-100 bus used in any current computers? Can it be expanded to >16/32/64 bits? > >At 02:12 PM 3/18/99 -0500, you wrote: >>Anyone know of a good reference on the web for the S-100 bus (pin >assignments ect..)? >> >>TIA, >> >>Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> >> >> >> >---------------------------------------- > Tired of Micro$oft??? > > Move up to a REAL OS... >######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # >#####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## >####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### >###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### >##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### ># ###### > ("LINUX" for those of you > without fixed-width fonts) >---------------------------------------- >Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com >

27 years, 4 months

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Imsai Web Site

by edick＠idcomm.com

I got the following (quoted) email in response to an inquiry regarding my couple of IMSAI parallel I/O boards. Their hit counter listed me as #13. I hope that's not an omen. The site is clearly a work in progress. If they see the direction the PC world is going, i.e. no expansion slots for us to use, they may actually see a market for the product types they sold twenty years ago. Who knows?? It's definitely worth a visit to the site < http://www.imsai.net > even if it's just for nostalgia. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Fischer <TRF(a)imsai.net> To: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> Date: Saturday, March 20, 1999 9:00 AM Subject: Re: documents ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Erlacher To: info(a)imsai.net Sent: Saturday, March 20, 1999 7:22 AM Subject: documents Over the years, I've been separated from my documents, or parts of my documents for the PIO-4 and PIO-4 boards. While, on the surface, these are quite transparent to understand, There are features, e.g. the 26-conductor connector at the top of the PIO-6, the purpose of which is not clear. Perhaps publishing the document for these boards will clear up my questions, which I'll bet are not unique. regards, Dick Erlacher Hi Dick, I'll see if I can get the PIO-6 info active tomorrow. That center connector brought out the bus control signals to complement the latched bi-directional signals for the other two connectors. If you're not already doing so, go to: http:/imsai.net since this is the new URL for IMSAI. Thanks for your interest. Best regards, -TRF

27 years, 4 months

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Fw: Pre-history of Digital Research

by edick＠idcomm.com

This web site is worth a visit. It seems to imply that as time allows, they're going to publish documents on the web, and perhaps even produce more of their old product line. These old computers still do what they always did, and, frankly, as we move in the dircection of a PC with no expansion slots inside the box, it does look like a return to "fiddle-able" hardware of some sort is needed in order to cover the needs of the person who needs to monitor ten switches and drive a dozen relays. Cards with which to do this are all too rare, and I've seen lots of cases where one S-100 box with the old IMSAI PIO-4 board would easily have done what I routinely see four PC's doing through their printer ports. Will this one web site lead to a resurrection of the "old days?" Well, probably not, but there's certainly cause for thought. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. <rcini(a)email.msn.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, March 20, 1999 6:06 AM Subject: Fw: Fw: Pre-history of Digital Research >Hello, all: > > I've had some interesting correspondance with Tom Fischer, of >Fischer-Frietas. See below... > >[ Rich Cini/WUGNET >[ ClubWin!/CW7 >[ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking >[ Collector of "classic" computers >[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ >[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ ><---------------------------- reply separator <snip>

27 years, 4 months

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Pointers please - Obsolete/discontinued chips

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

In einer eMail vom 20.03.99 03:36:49 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << AM7992BCD >> Maybe you mean AM 7992 BDC ??? Lots of these in stock at http://www.hrent.com John G. Zabolitzky

27 years, 4 months

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Security question (sort of)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The serial ports are no longer recognized ANYWHERE - in the BIOS, in DOS, b <MSD, Windows, anything. I have already re-installed Windows. < <A virus planted by a hacker can damage hardware by "eating" at the chips, o <just scrambling the code in the chip. (I know someone (Ironically, it's th <sister of the person that did this to my computer), who's keyboard <controller chip got scrambled. I don't believe people believe this. Keyboards are cpu/rom based they are either good or dead. While it's possible to scramble the CMOS and if the machine has it Flashram you do need to work at it. the last time someone told be this I was give a 1gb IDE drive that was "poisoned", turned out the MBR and noot blocks had garbage (not even a virus) in them from a defective motherboard. Reformat and tada it was good. Urban legend most of the time. If W95 is still bootable then just hit the hardware install wizard and have it look for the missing devices. make sure the CMOS setting do enable the missing devices and also enables the PNP stuff ot the later w95 install will never find it. FYI: a lot has to be there to boot w95. What may have been done is the little dork went into the chipset features or advanced features and turned off some stuff. The fix, turn them back on. Oh, if the machine has flashram it likely came with a config disk to sort things out. If it can boot it, it's recoverable. Allison

27 years, 4 months

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Calling Doug Yowza - right e-mail?

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Sorry for the intrusion: I can't seem to get Doug's right e-mail address...Doug, e-mail me. Thanks! [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <---------------------------- reply separator

27 years, 4 months

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Fw: Fw: Pre-history of Digital Research

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: I've had some interesting correspondance with Tom Fischer, of Fischer-Frietas. See below... [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <---------------------------- reply separator ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. <rcini(a)email.msn.com> To: Thomas Fischer <amrock(a)cwo.com> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 1999 7:47 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Pre-history of Digital Research > Tom: > > >I have some ambitious plans in > > store to satisfy some of the demand for a return to the "feel" of early > > microcomputing. Those plans will unravel over the next couple of months > on > > www.imsai.net. > > That is excellent! In the IMSAI's heyday, I wasn't aware of the subtile > elegance of the S100 machines (I'm 32 now, so I was about 14 in 1981). Most > of my computing focus at the time was the micros: Commodore, Tandy, and > Apple, which is what I used in school. > > I didn't become interested in computers that pre-date the micros until > about 3 years ago when I began collecting in earnest. I started with some of > the micros which I grew-up on, and then expanded to others, including my > only S100 machine, a Northstar Horizon. My collection still includes many > micros, but also some SBCs, workstations, and a PDP11. I also belong to an > on-line group of collectors who share history, folklore, collecting and > repairing tips for these machines. > > FWIW, what I'd like to see is a 25th Anniversary IMSAI 8080 Kit. Price > point: about $500. This would give those of us who have not had the > experience of building a true computer kit the opportunity to do so. > > I'll be anxiously watching your site. Good luck. > > [ Rich Cini/WUGNET > [ ClubWin!/CW7 > [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > [ Collector of "classic" computers > [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ > <---------------------------- reply separator > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Thomas Fischer <amrock(a)cwo.com> > To: Richard A. Cini, Jr. <rcini(a)msn.com> > Sent: Friday, March 19, 1999 10:48 PM > Subject: Re: Fw: Pre-history of Digital Research > > > > At 10:28 PM 3/19/99 -0500, you wrote: > > >Tom: > > > > > > This is a second try... > > (snip) > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. <rcini(a)email.msn.com> > > >To: Thomas Fischer <paralegl(a)cwo.com> > > >Sent: Friday, March 19, 1999 6:41 PM > > >Subject: Re: Pre-history of Digital Research > > > > > > > > >> Tom: > > >> > > >> I say your post and was intrigued. What ever happened to IMSAI > after > > >F-F > > >> owned it? In all that I have read, IMSAI's history ended at F-F. > > >> > > >> Thanks! > > >> > > >> [ Rich Cini/WUGNET > > >> [ ClubWin!/CW7 > > >> [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > > >> [ Collector of "classic" computers > > >> [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > > >> [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ > > (snip) > > Hello Richard, > > > > Nancy and I retreated to Orangevale California (near Sacramento) in early > > 1984 to preserve our shrinking assets and enjoy a more idyllic country > > style life. We continued support and sales until 1986 when my consulting > > and design talents took me into other ventures. IMSAI remained dormant > > until a few months ago when the collectability issues and perceived demand > > prompted me to renew our trademarks and once again consider serious > > participation in the retro-computing area. I have some ambitious plans > in > > store to satisfy some of the demand for a return to the "feel" of early > > microcomputing. Those plans will unravel over the next couple of months > on > > www.imsai.net. > > > > Thank you for your interst and support. Best regards, > > > > -Thomas "Todd" Fischer > > > > > >

27 years, 4 months

1
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Computers in Parallel

by roblwill＠usaor.net

You know, not to sound mean, but that sounds like a discouragement to me. I am aware of the fact that it will not be the _fastest_ system around, but it would be interesting to do. Also, considering that when you have 10 odd computers, that may not be the fastest around, and can only be used one at a time, why not have them work together? The last thing I thought I'd see on the list was someone discouraging someone to try something. Just my $.0002 -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 7:06 AM Subject: Re: Computers in Parallel > >This is highly off-topic for this list - along with discussions of >(contemporary) computer security and/or retaliatory recommendations, >etc. Hardly a minute goes by on the net without some youngster hearing >about a new processor, or a pile of old processors, chanting the >word "beowulf" and thinking that 1 + 1 + 1 + overhead suddenly equals 10. >Also, it's a sure sign they aren't paying the electric bill, and >can't afford a $200 PC that'll beat the pants off their dream cluster. >Sure, there's the sheer hack value, but... > >- John > >

27 years, 4 months

6
7
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Maximum version of MacOS for Mac SE?

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

What's the highest version of MacOS that can run on a Mac SE? 7.3? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99]

27 years, 4 months

3
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Security question (sort of)

by edick＠idcomm.com

A virus could conceivably alter the volatile parameters in the BIOS-controlled CMOS parameter table. This would possibly alter the port configurations and addresses. The MSD is worse than worthless for diagnosing problems in your PC. It is useful for guessing at what WIndows might do with what's there. If someone maliciously wanted to fool your computer into believing it has a configuration that's not valid, it could change the CMOS parameter memory content and enable the plug-n-pray flag, such that the system reconfigures its resource assignments differently than Windows is set to anticipate, which will confuse it. This sort of thing wouldn't happen if you didn't let vandals and criminals into your computer facility. People who think it's clever to damage the content of your computer are no better than those useless wastes of skin that go around painting graffitti on other people's property. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Jason Willgruber <roblwill(a)usaor.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 8:40 PM Subject: Re: Security question (sort of) >The serial ports are no longer recognized ANYWHERE - in the BIOS, in DOS, by >MSD, Windows, anything. I have already re-installed Windows. > >A virus planted by a hacker can damage hardware by "eating" at the chips, or >just scrambling the code in the chip. (I know someone (Ironically, it's the >sister of the person that did this to my computer), who's keyboard >controller chip got scrambled. > >If you noticed the red text on the top of the page, I have removed all of >the images. I just didn't feel like deleting all the links. >-- > -Jason Willgruber > (roblwill(a)usaor.net) > ICQ#: 1730318 ><http://members.tripod.com/general_1> > >-----Original Message----- >From: Sellam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 6:51 PM >Subject: OT: Re: Security question (sort of) > > >>On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Max Eskin wrote: >> >>> On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Jason Willgruber wrote: >>> >Check out my website: >>> > >>> >http://members.tripod.com/general_1 >>> > >>> In summary, it caused damage to the serial ports. Any computer whose >>> hardware can be damaged by software in this way should be thrown off the >>> Empire State Building. >> >>I think what Jason may not have initially realized (and maybe still not >>yet even) is that his Windows system configuration files got screwed and >>therefore his serial ports are no longer accessible under windows. As far >>as I know, its impossible to physically damage a serial port through >>software unless you make it possible by building a device whose soul >>purpose is to electrically short pins on the serial port on command. And >>of course, no sane persson would go through the trouble. >> >>So all he really needs to do is probably go into the Cntrol Panel, select >>System, then go to ports, remove the old serial ports (if they are still >>there) then add them again. Or maybe let windows find them for you with >>the Add New Hardware icon. >> >>BTW, I checked out the web site but all the links are bad. They all end >>up at a Tripod "page not found" page. >> >>Sellam Alternate e-mail: >dastar(a)siconic.com >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- - >--- >>Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. >> >> Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 >> See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! >> [Last web site update: 02/15/99] >> >> >

27 years, 4 months

1
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Security question (sort of)

by edick＠idcomm.com

I'd certainly like to know what kind of a virus and what kind of chip that would be. There's little programmable logic on a modern PC, and none of it, if the board is jumpered as it should be, can be changed by accident or vandalism. Please correct me, with details, please, if I'm wrong. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 9:52 PM Subject: OT: Re: Security question (sort of) >On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Jason Willgruber wrote: > >> The serial ports are no longer recognized ANYWHERE - in the BIOS, in DOS, by >> MSD, Windows, anything. I have already re-installed Windows. >> >> A virus planted by a hacker can damage hardware by "eating" at the chips, or >> just scrambling the code in the chip. (I know someone (Ironically, it's the >> sister of the person that did this to my computer), who's keyboard >> controller chip got scrambled. > >Well, again, unless someone comes forth to edumacate me, there's typically >no way to destroy hardware from software, unless you count that POKE from >BASIC on the PET. Also, maybe monitors I guess since you can ruin one by >running it at the wrong sync rate or what not. But you can't send a "bug" >out to go munch on a "chip". C'mon, you've been watching that movie >_Hackers_ too much. > >What you probably need to do is reset your BIOS. He probably put a BIOS >scrambler trojan in your AUTOEXEC.BAT or something. It then executed when >you reboot and fricked up the BIOS. > >> If you noticed the red text on the top of the page, I have removed all of >> the images. I just didn't feel like deleting all the links. > >Well, you only had them up there for a day. From the time I got your >message to the time I checked the page was only a few hours. > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 02/15/99] >

27 years, 4 months

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OT: Re: Security question (sort of)

by edick＠idcomm.com

These Motherboards have jumpers which must be set to enable the programming voltage to the Flash memory. If you make sure the jumper is in the inactive position, nothing and no one will be able to mess with your BIOS FROM. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 10:14 PM Subject: Re: OT: Re: Security question (sort of) >At 08:46 PM 3/19/99 -0800, Sellam wrote: >>Well, again, unless someone comes forth to edumacate me, there's typically >>no way to destroy hardware from software, unless you count that POKE from >>BASIC on the PET. > >"modern" computers have writable BIOS "roms." Malevolent crackers are >writing bombs these days that scribble bits in nasty places in your BIOS. >One of the worst is called "last place AWARD" that destroys an AWARD BIOS >and resets your computer. No bios, no boot, no way to flash a new bios >without some fairly specialized equipment (to do in circuit Flash programming.) > >--Chuck > >

27 years, 4 months

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OT: Re: Security question (sort of)

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I have an AMIBIOS "Burn-IN". I've reset it with the "clear BIOS jumper", left the battery out for three days, and still no serial ports.-- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> ------///////// -----// // ----// ## ---// ////### --// //#### -/////////## ## -----------/ ## / ## / ## / ######## /-----------> -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 9:11 PM Subject: Re: OT: Re: Security question (sort of) >At 08:46 PM 3/19/99 -0800, Sellam wrote: > >"modern" computers have writable BIOS "roms." Malevolent crackers are >writing bombs these days that scribble bits in nasty places in your BIOS. >One of the worst is called "last place AWARD" that destroys an AWARD BIOS >and resets your computer. No bios, no boot, no way to flash a new bios >without some fairly specialized equipment (to do in circuit Flash programming.) > >--Chuck > > >

27 years, 4 months

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test?

by bluoval＠mindspring.com

test. I can't see my posts. why?

27 years, 4 months

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some items

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 7:44 PM Subject: Re: some items >> 4. Digital TK50Z-GA (can this be used on a Micro pdp?) > >Maybe, if the Micro PDP has a SCSI controller. > >Then again, it's hard to say. The TK50Z and TZ30 both have fairly >wacked-out SCSI implementations (and not even in exactly the same ways), >and neither is known to work reliably on much of anything other than >a VAXstation. Bummer... Anyone need it(4.)? And anyone know anything about the televideo 806es? - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 4 months

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Sun 4/110

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I went to one of my favorite scrappers today and got lucky. One of their trucks had just come in with a load of HP stuff. They generously (?) let me unload it for them. I found a mountain of HP stuff! My poor little Subaru was dragging the ground coming home! One of the things that I saw was a SUN 4/110. Can anyone tell me the general specs for it. CPU type and speed, what size hard drive they have (if any), amount of memory, etc. Any idea of what it's worth? Also is anyone interested in it? I'm going back there tomorrow and can get it but I have to know before tomorrow or else it's going to be scrap metal. Joe

27 years, 4 months

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Micom 2000

by lwalker＠mail.interlog.com

A chance quote in the Cromemco thread by Sellam led me to some info on the old Micom 2000 I've had for some time. Seems that historically it was in good company, with the Atairs, MITS, and the Apple 1 (included for context). I guess when I did my last search Don Poullsons definitive list wasn't up yet. >FROM TIMELINE OF MICROCOMPUTER HISTORY................Poulsson March (75) Fred Moore and Gordon French hold the first meeting of a new microcomputer hobbyist's club in French's garage, in Menlo Park, California. 32 people meet, including Bob Albrect, Steve Dompier, Lee Felsenstein, Bob Marsh, Tom Pittman, Marty Spergel, Alan Baum, and Steven Wozniak. Bob Albrect shows off an Altair, and Steve Dompier reports on MITS, and how they had 4000 orders for the Altair. [185.110] [266.104] [301.55] [346.18] [353.200] [346.257] (April [208.67] 266.39) Stephen Dorsey, founder of Automatic Electronic Systems, sells his 25% of the company for $135,000. [615.98] Stephen Dorsey and Louis Miller found Micom Data Systems, in Canada. [615.90] July (75) Bill Gates and Paul Allen sign a licensing agreement with MITS, for their implementation of the BASIC language. [299.8] Bill Gates and Paul Allen ship 4K and 8K version of BASIC v2.0. [123] Dick Heiser opens Arrow Head Computer Company, subtitled "The Computer Store", in Los Angeles, selling assembled Altairs, boards, peripherals, and magazines. This is the first retail computer store in the USA. [266.185] [684.41] Micom Data Systems ships its first product, the Micom 2000 word processing computer. [615.99] September (75) IBM's Entry Level Systems unit unveils "Project Mercury", the IBM 5100 Portable Computer. It is a briefcase-size minicomputer with BASIC, 16KB RAM, tape storage, and built-in 5-inch screen. Price: US$9000. Weight: 55 pounds. [9] [197.xi] (Price over US$10,000 [203.10]) The first issue of Byte magazine is published. [9] [266.159] March (76) Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs finish work on a computer circuit board, that they call the Apple I computer. [46] By the end of its first year in business, Micom Data Systems ships 180 Micom 2000 computers, worth $2 million. [615.99] May (78) Stephen Dorsey signs an agreement with Philips to sell them 80% ownership of Micom Data Systems. [615.103] May (83) Philips buys out Stephen Dorsey's remaining 20% ownership of Micom Data Systems. [615.103] [615] Knights of the New Technology - The Inside Story of Canada's Computer Elite, by David Thomas, 1983.

27 years, 4 months

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OT: Re: Security question (sort of)

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

At 08:46 PM 3/19/99 -0800, Sellam wrote: >Well, again, unless someone comes forth to edumacate me, there's typically >no way to destroy hardware from software, unless you count that POKE from >BASIC on the PET. "modern" computers have writable BIOS "roms." Malevolent crackers are writing bombs these days that scribble bits in nasty places in your BIOS. One of the worst is called "last place AWARD" that destroys an AWARD BIOS and resets your computer. No bios, no boot, no way to flash a new bios without some fairly specialized equipment (to do in circuit Flash programming.) --Chuck

27 years, 4 months

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Calling Doug Yowza - right e-mail?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:01 PM 3/19/99 -0800, you wrote: >> I can't seem to get Doug's right e-mail address...Doug, e-mail me. > >I don't think Doug is on the list anymore. I think he was one of the >people that jumped after the last flamewar. However, I'm in need of his >current e-mail address also. The collector formerly known as Yowza (sold out to the flesh peddlers, the lucky bugger) can be reached at <doug(a)blinkenlights.com>. And yes, I believe he's no longer on ClassicCmp. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 4 months

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OT: UNIX/Linux info?

by max82＠surfree.com

Hi, I don't currently have any good books on UNIX or Linux, and am trying to configure a Linux system mostly from scratch, with a lot of my own 'improvements'. However, there is one thing I'm stuck on (the inittab shutdown and reboot scripts), and I'm wondering if anyone here knows what would be the list or newsgroup most able to answer my question. Of course, if someone on this list wants to take a shot at it, by all means e-mail me privately. --Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com)

27 years, 4 months

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Pictures of a Sun 1/100U

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

I tossed together a few pictures of a Sun 1/100U onto a web page. I havent gotten around to adding some words of description, but I figured most people here have never seen this computer... so i'll just give the URL and see if anyones interested: http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~lemay/sun1.html -Lawrence LeMay

27 years, 4 months

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My pdp-8 move this weekend...

by mbg＠world.std.com

Oh yeah, forgot to mention... the person from whom I am getting the -8s will help me load, I only need help in unloading... in the afternoon... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 4 months

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some items

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Then again, it's hard to say. The TK50Z and TZ30 both have fairly >wacked-out SCSI implementations (and not even in exactly the same ways), >and neither is known to work reliably on much of anything other than >a VAXstation. I've got a TZ30 working on a pdp-11/93 at home, and working just fine... In fact, I used it to load 2.11BSD, and RT-11 V5.7... The TZ30 SCSI implementation seems to be more stable than the TK50Z one... It may depend on the board you use... I used the RQZX1, which was qualified with the TZ30... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 4 months

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Another Find

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Today I picked a copy of the Secret Guide to Computers (20th edition), I >remember reading these years ago when the guy offered free help over the >phone on any computer topic. Anyone else remember these books. John I've got a set of these I got some 15 or more years ago... I sure do remember them. I used them to help my son learn a little about computers and programming in BASIC (if you're lucky, flames regarding this will be ignored) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 4 months

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sellers market

by edick＠idcomm.com

While it's true that ensuring that no money changes hands except between buyer and seller will remove the incentive on the part of the site owner to support needless price escalation, that mechanism won't be effective to encourage sane pricing unless there's a powerful mechanism, probably one stronger or at least swifter than the legal system, to ensure that the bidder and seller are held to their obligations. My problem with eBay is not that the prices are unreasonable, though I've felt they are. My problem is with the 70% advertised successful completion rate of transactions resulting from completed auctions. This means that only seven of ten auctions in which a bidder offers an amount equal to or in excess of the buyer's demand, result in a transfer of funds for the merchandise at auction. This doesn't include those auctions which result in the buyer receiving a brick, and may (?) not include cases wherein the seller receives a bogus check. It only considers those cases in which one of the parties backs out. Unfortunately, I don't see a reasonable method which can be used to fix this problem. The free market says that an item is worth what someone will pay for it. How can one depend on the likes of eBay to set the price when there is no mechanism to bind the parties to their commitment to the agreed-upon transaction? How can we improve on it? What could we do if we had a site dedicated to the exchange of computer antiquities and oddities, to prevent falsely imputed prices resulting from transactions, faked in order to make record of prices at which commodities can not reasonably be traded? Before we become too critical of eBay, we should, I think, have a positive construct which addresses their shortcomings. EBay is, I believe, a good idea, implemented as well as can be, though perhaps not, which, like our form of government, is by no means perfect, yet is superior to whatever else is available. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 5:20 PM Subject: Re: sellers market > > >Sellam Ismail wrote: >> >> > That's why eBay operates the way it does, still more or less isolated from >> > the transactions, yet able to bring in lots of dollars because they charge >> > the speculators money regardless of whether they sell their item or not. >> > >> > Does this seem different to you? >> >> Yep, no money involved save for what the buyer wants to give the seller. >> All transactions based upon personal reputation. No system that >> encourages over-bidding and unreasonable price escalations. Just pure >> open-market-based buying, selling and trading. > >I was born yesterday, but it wasn't that late in the day. Ebay *is* an open >market (except in the brain damaged recent decision to unilaterally ban the >sale of firearms.) There is absolutely nothing to force a buyer to bid on >anything there, and the last I heard, browsing was still free. Anyone >sticking their head in the sand and thinking that vintage computers will not >appreciate in value is just fooling themselves. And has been said many >times, most of us do not collect for the investment value, but rather >because there is a sense of preserving history. > >Have I left anyone out of being insulted :)? > >Personal reputation is generally the only reason I (and a number of other >people I know) get a lot of the things I do given to me as well as leads on >other "good" stuff. The other side of that coin is that I am not free >(ethically) to sell off this stuff for personal profit. BUT, it takes time >to develop a reputation, and what you are suggesting will only work with >people that have known each other for quite a length of time. That, almost >by definition, leaves out a public list. > >I don't see any public alternatives to ebay and the like. A number of people >have written comments (not too many on this list) that they have found >things on ebay they have been trying to locate for years. It seems rather >ostrich like not to acknowledge the value of ebay, etc. At least everything >there is open for the scrutiny of all involved.

27 years, 4 months

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Cromemco (was Re: S-100 bus specs)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Re: <> > 1979 <> > First multi-user operating system CROMIX (UNIX derivative) <> > <> > First multi-user operating system...what? On a micro? Maybe. <> <> Even then, dubious. When did OS-9 come out? < <IIRC, I was using a multiuser Alpha Micro (probably an AM 100) <in my apartment around June or July of 1978. It was based on the <Western Digital microengine, which emulated a DEC 11. < <Stan Lessee there are some points of order... Alpha Micro AM100 was a sorta LSI-11 in that it used the same chip set and was similar but not compatable in any way. The Western Digital PASCAL Microengine was a P-machine and operationally as well as programativcally very different from DEC PDP-11. It did however use the same chipset. The chipset is WD13 and it's functionality is determined by microms (microprogramming roms). Alpha micro was very close to the PDP-11 but far enough away to avoid copyright problems. The WD P-engine was oneof the few direct P-code executing systems (a stack machine). All very interesting machine as they were pushing the microcomputer envelope for the time. Allison

27 years, 4 months

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[Fwd: FS: TI calculator]

by bluoval＠mindspring.com

thought someone might be interested. topgun72SPAMSUX(a)hotmail.com wrote: > For sale: Texas Instruments TI-60 calculator and user guide > > Will sell for $15.00. I can email you a picture of the calculator. > > TI-60. An advanced scientific calculator with programmability -- up to > 88 program steps and 12 constant user memories. One- and two-variable > statistics, linear regression, trend-line analysis and other > statistical functions. Number-base conversions and mixed-base > calculations. Ten-digit LCD. > > Postage not included in price. Thanks for your interest! If > interested, please respond to: topgun72SPAMSUX(a)hotmail.com. Be sure > to remove SPAMSUX from the email address. > ----------------------------------------------------- > please remove SPAMSUX from the address to send email!!! > > ----------------------------------------------------- > LEGAL NOTICE: Anyone who sends me unsolicited/commercial email will be charged a $500.00 proofreading fee. Consider this offical notification. > > "By US Code Title 47, Sc. 227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. > By Sec. 227(b)(1)(C), it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment. > By Sec. 227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500.00, whichever is greater, for each violation."

27 years, 4 months

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some items

by dogas＠leading.net

I missed the opening of a thrift sale that still had some possibly interesting leftovers. Anyone have any info on the following: 1. Televideo TS0806/20: one floppy, one hd, z80 (I think) 2. Televideo T806H20 same case as above containing just a hd 3. DecServer 200/MC 4. Digital TK50Z-GA (can this be used on a Micro pdp?) Would consider trades with anyone looking for any of this stuff specifically. TIA - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 4 months

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Another Find

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Today I picked a copy of the Secret Guide to Computers (20th edition), I remember reading these years ago when the guy offered free help over the phone on any computer topic. Anyone else remember these books. John

27 years, 4 months

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Intel Classics

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

Does anyone on this list collect Intel stuff? I've recently picked up two Intel 5 slot rack mount multibus I chassis (this is the 2U size box), an an iSBC 86/35 and an iSBC 86/05. The former counts as a singleboard computer as it has ROM and RAM on board, the latter expects RAM to sit on the P2 bus if I recall correctly. I would prefer to trade for Q-bus stuff but reasonable offers are welcome as well. --Chuck

27 years, 4 months

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Last Chance for GRiDPad's

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

If you're interested in the GRiDPad 1910's I picked up, please let me know. After I get this first batch out, whatever's left is going on ePay to try and make back what I paid for 'em, perhaps even a little extra to cover the hours I've spent testing them. Cost is $15 for working ones, $5 for non-working (plus shipping). E-mail me off-list for more info. (I'll only send progress updates to those who have said they want one (or more) from now on. Thanks for being patient!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 4 months

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Security question (sort of)

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I already have power-up passwords, but that doesn't help when the person is hacking in through the Internet after the computer is booted. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com <SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, March 18, 1999 8:41 PM Subject: Re: Security question (sort of) >In a message dated 3/18/99 10:39:42 PM US Eastern Standard Time, >roblwill(a)usaor.net writes: > >> My computer was recently hacked into, and a bunch of the software, and some >> of the hardware was messed up (I know who did it - no one on this list - >> someone from my school). >> >> What would be the best thing to do here (other than physically damage the >> person/and/or their computer)? Is there any security programs for Windoze >> '95 that can be downloaded? > >uh, how about a power-on passwoid? >I know some IBM machines have an unattended startup mode that locks the >keyboard and mouse within the os until the passwoid is typed in. What about >hardware locks? seems to be a simple and obvious answer to your problem. > > > supr 'revenge is a delicious dish best served cold' dave >

27 years, 4 months

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some items

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Mike <dogas(a)leading.net> > 1. Televideo TS0806/20: one floppy, one hd, z80 (I think) Opps, TS-806/20 actually. >- Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 4 months

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sellers market

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:04 PM 3/18/99 -0700, you wrote: >>So someone needs to create another web site that is the opposite >>of what eBay provides. A site where you can advertise that you're >>looking for an Exidy Sorcerer computer, and woould be willing to >>pay about $15 plus $10 shipping. I suggest you call this new Ph sure, and if I (john doe) had an exidy, I would look at your listing, then head over to eBay and post it with a $15 min. bid. Then I would send you an e-mail saying I had one on ebay. >service which protects the buyer and the seller, by ensuring the funds and >the merchandise as represented are there and by ensuring the parties >complete the transaction to which they're supposedly committed, would be >VERY valuable and would take a BIG bite out of Ebay's share. That's not an Sure, they're called Christies, Sotheby's, Butterfield and Butterfield... (Or did you want to pay an extra $10 to guarantee that $10 sale?) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 4 months

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sellers market

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

In einer eMail vom 18.03.99 19:40:17, schreiben Sie: << > Ward D. Griffiths III wrote: > > ePay seems to be a seller's market. There's nothing inherently wrong with > that, but nevertheless I think it sucks. Of course, my opinion is very > biased, since I'm generally on the buying end of the deal. > So someone needs to create another web site that is the opposite of what eBay provides. A site where you can advertise that you're looking for an Exidy Sorcerer computer, and woould be willing to pay about $15 plus $10 shipping. I suggest you call this new site yaBe.com .... -Lawrence (yes I want an Exidy, who doesn't?) LeMay >> I think this is a VERY, VERY GOOD idea ! John G. Zabolitzky

27 years, 4 months

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HP-85's available

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Hi All, I've got three HP-85s , two are the 'A' model and one is the 'B' model. I'm looking to sell them (or trade for PDP-8 stuff), consider this a silent auction :-) Here's the scoop: - None of them have any ROM modules. Unit #1: HP-85 Serial #2204A54765 Includes printer. It is missing the tape drive. It is missing the key cap for the 'up arrow' key. Powers up, gives "Error 23 - Self Test" (presumably, 'my tape drive is missing') Typed the standard 10 FOR I = 1 TO 10 20 DISP I 30 NEXT I 40 END Diagnostic and it works fine. Printer appears to work but I don't know how to test it. Unit #2: HP-85 Serial #2023A08736 Includes printer. It is missing the tape drive. Has all its key caps. Powers up, gives "Error 23 - Self Test" (presumably, 'my tape drive is missing') Typed the standard 10 FOR I = 1 TO 10 20 DISP I 30 NEXT I 40 END Diagnostic and it works fine. Printer appears to work but I don't know how to test it. Unit #3: HP-85B Serial #2510B49048 Includes printer. Includes the tape drive. Has all its key caps. Does NOT power up. I have verified the fuse is good but not done any other work on it. They weigh about 15 lbs each so they are pretty inexpensive to ship UPS in the continental US. Terms are basically buyer pays actual postage plus their offer amount. Auction closes at midnight 3/23/99 (Tuesday) Pacific Standard Time. I'll keep all bidders confidential and updated as to the current offer so they may revise their bid. Last update from me will be Tuesday 3/23/99 around 5PM PST. Email me (cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com) if you're interested or have any questions. --Chuck

27 years, 4 months

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SWTPC paper for sale

by william＠ans.net

I am preparing to haul a bunch of micro junk to RCS/RI this weekend, and found some extras in the box. Here we go: * SWTPC MP-01 6800 Computer System, Aug 75. Apparently this was the early "sales" document, with descriptions and prices for the various boards and things. Included is a Q and A section, with inqueries like "What type terminal do I use?", and "When can I expect to get delivery?". The original order form is still attached to the back, butif you fill it out, I doubt you will get a computer! 8.5" x 11", about 15 pages. * SWTPC Computer Peripherals, Jul 76. Another catalog, this time with pictures for extras like the AC-30, PR-40, and GT-61. Also included is the announcment of the CT-1024 terminal system. For some reason the back cover has been cut oddly - perhaps a flaw >from the printers. 8.5" x 11", about 15 pages. * Ready for Business, no date. This is a four page pamphlet showing the whole SWTPC system - CPU, floppy box, AC-30 cassette interface, printer, and terminal, as well as the DMAF1 1 Megabyte Disk System (basically a dual 8" drive box). 8.5" x 11", 4 pages. * SWTPC Computer Products catalog, Dec 76. Basically like the first item on this post, but in a smaller format. 6" x 9", about 15 pages. * SWTPC Computer Products catalog, May 78. Again, like the first item, but now with more stuff (and a better quality job on the document!), but in a smaller format. 6" x 9", about 15 pages. All of this stuff looks sort of cheesy, as some of it was printed before the computers were actually shipping. Most have dates scribbled on them >from the previous owner, Owen Davis, who also put his name on several pieces. Nothing of these scribbles, however, are messy or annoying. All of the things are in pretty good shape, with no bad creases or significant rips. I guess will make this best offer. I would prefer to sell it as a lot. Lets give this until Monday afternoon - then I will decide the winner(s). Trades are possible - basically old mainframey and super type things and paper are wanted. Trades with bribes are also possible! William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

27 years, 4 months

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Security question (sort of)

by arfonrg＠texas.net

Jason, >The better thing to do would be to either a) beat senseless the punk who >broke into your system (my first choice), b) hack into his computer and >retaliate, c) both. >Of course, if you can lay hands on the bugger who did it... >First, buy a machete. >Second, hack off the offender's naughty bits. I have seen many e-mails which support violence and revenge. This should be a kinder-gentler world because it takes a village you know. Let bygones be bygones and this will pass. And in a few months when the memory is gone things will be better. Then sneak over to the guy's house and fill his gas tank with a full bag of sugar! THEN load Linux onto your system and live the good life. You're Welcome, Arfon P.S. May I suggest Slackware? ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com

27 years, 4 months

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Transistor help

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<types. The replacement transistor <that NTE had didn't seem to have enough gain. In order <for a flyback switcher to work, the edges have to be sharp. <I currently have a 2N4401 in there but it may have too much gain <or not be able to handle the higher reverse voltage on the the 4401 is a good match but the NTE part should work. The transistor should be able to withstand 60V and have a moderate beta. I'd try a 2n2219 or maybe a 3904. The cicut is not the best design and tended to flake out if the load was too high. Allison

27 years, 4 months

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Security question (sort of)

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I want a few people's opinions before I take any actions: My computer was recently hacked into, and a bunch of the software, and some of the hardware was messed up (I know who did it - no one on this list - someone from my school). What would be the best thing to do here (other than physically damage the person/and/or their computer)? Is there any security programs for Windoze '95 that can be downloaded? Where or who would I report this person to? FCC? ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 4 months

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sellers market

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

In einer eMail vom 19.03.99 19:03:07 MEZ, schreibt Sellam: << On Fri, 19 Mar 1999 Jgzabol(a)aol.com wrote: > So someone needs to create another web site that is the opposite > of what eBay provides. A site where you can advertise that you're > looking for an Exidy Sorcerer computer, and woould be willing to > pay about $15 plus $10 shipping. I suggest you call this new > site yaBe.com .... > > -Lawrence (yes I want an Exidy, who doesn't?) LeMay > > >> > > I think this is a VERY, VERY GOOD idea ! It is a good idea but let me be the naysayer for a moment. Say someone does go through the trouble to create such a cool site. A bunch of guys sick of the ebay atrocity start posting want ads for stuff they want. And they wait. And wait. And wait. And...nothing ever comes of it. People who are selling this stuff come to the page, see someone wanting an Exidy Sorcerer for $15 and go "HAH! I can get 20 times that on ebay!" Then they go to ebay and get 20 times that. Now I would think that many on this list are more interested in trading computers in a sane manner with other like-minded hobbyists, and on the strength of that alone will this work. Now let's say that a trading board is added, where people can post stuff they have for sale or trade there. Let's say some really cool things are offered for sane prices, like S-100 systems and cards, interesting micro's from the 80s, PDP-8 hardware and software, etc. Good stuff. All being offered at reasonable prices because its offered by hobbyists intended for hobbyists. Now, along comes some jerk with a lot of money, he starts buying up everything that gets posted, and then even worse, a couple weeks later this stuff starts showing up on ebay and getting sold for the same old ridiculous prices! Now, what I'm trying to say is, while this sounds like a very cool idea, it has the potential to get destroyed by the very thing we're trying to avoid. A system needs to be designed to insure that there is a level of integrity maintained, otherwise you just have another ebay, and one ebay is bad enough. I don't have any ideas on this (yet) but I think it should be well thought out before anyone even bothers to set up the site. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >> That impresses me as very logical. By that token, no automatic scheme of any sort would work. This seems to point to the need for some kind of registry: differentiating between hobbyists and jerks must be done in an intelligent manner, and someone would be kind of the gatekeeper. Here in Germany we have a point scheme for traffic violations: whenever you commit one, a note is sent to a central registry. When your point sum reaches a limit, you loose your license. This kind of scheme - an extension of the mediated mailing list I would say - may be the right thing here: - Hobbyists apply for the right to participate; - Unless negative info is known, application is granted; - if and when negative info accumulates, right of participation is revoked. Of course, the registrar must be a person really in high esteem by everyone! John G. Zabolitzky

27 years, 4 months

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sellers market

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 19.3.1999 14:13:44 Eastern Standard Time, af-list@wfi- inc.com writes: > On a small scale, it would be a nice resource for the members of this > list to have a simple, searchable registry of who's looking for what. > You don't even have to disclose what you're willing to pay (I think it'd > be much more anti-ebay if there weren't any dollar signs on it at all), > but just that you would like anyone who has one of these systems > available to contact you. This would simply be a contact facilitator, > and the independent parties could then negotiate prices, etc. > > Worst case would be that the professional auction sellers would find out > and start flooding the registrants with URLs of their eBay auctions. But > if it's a "registered user" service, it would be simple enough to > implement a "no-eBay" policy and boot people for doing that. for an example of this, goto www.aomci.org/webads.htm i collect old outboard motors and their online advertisement area has a similar format. People list what they are looking for along witha contact name and address and that's it. aomci.org also has a newsletter that matches the website. prices are strictly forbidden in the advertisements to prevent artificially high prices and the type of price increases we are seeing in our own hobby. david

27 years, 4 months

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Sorry list members for misdirected message.

by kstumpf＠unusual.on.ca

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 .

27 years, 4 months

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More spring cleaning...more books FS and giveaway.

by kstumpf＠unusual.on.ca

Hey dude. The following were claimed, but the rest are yours. I'll followup with postage estimate tomorrow. >> -Laboratory Automation with the IBM PC (hardcover) $0 >> -IBM PC in the Lab (hardcover) $3 >> -Interfacing to S-100/IEEE 696 Microcomputers (Osborne) $0 >> -Interfacing Lab Applications to Microcomputers for >> Instrumentation, Data Analysis, and Control $3 >> -Microcomputer Interfacing (hardcover) $3 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 .

27 years, 4 months

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57 PST) - STAN VEIT'S HISTORY OF THE PC !! only $3 !! (http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-c

by fauradon＠pclink.com

I'm sorry. please don't hurt me. I...I don't know what happened, I guess I was under the influence of eBay. They sent subliminal messages instructing me to post on the list. It's not my fault I swear I didn't mean to... Oh WTF at $3 and a 1000 available it seemed like a good deal for all of us heck you can even get two if you want. Francois PS: :-) me too. >> For those of you who missed it the last time >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=79618079 > >How dare you post about eBay auctions here! There's a separate list for >that, you know! :-) > >(In case you're emoticon-challenged, I'm being sarcastic.) >

27 years, 4 months

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57 PST) - STAN VEIT'S HISTORY OF THE PC !! only $3 !! (http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-c

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

> > Hmm. Actually, last time I looked, vintagecomputers and sassy-scottie were > in a bidding war for all 1000 copies. I think the price is up to $13.25 per > copy. And don't be surprised if imsai snipes all 1000 at $26 a copy at the > last second. > > - Joe > > OEE (obvious emoticon elided) > > > Now I feel guilty... I bid on a copy not realizing it was driving up the price for everyone else ;-) Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

27 years, 4 months

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More spring cleaning...more books FS and giveaway.

by kstumpf＠unusual.on.ca

All softcover, unless otherwise noted, in very good condition (were unused review copies), prices (if one) is in US$, and shipping is extra. First come, first served. This list includes books about micrcomputers, laboratory applications, microprocessors, Apple II stuff, UNIX, and X/Windows. -Animation, Games, and Sound C64, IBM PC, TI 99/4A $2 -Computer Graphics Toolbox C64, VIC 20 $2 -Computer Graphics Toolbox Timex 1000 and Sinclair ZX-81 $2 -Powering Programming Graphics and Sound for C64 $0 -Microcomputer Displays, Graphics, and Animation by Bruce Artwick - creator of Flight Simulator $5 -Applied Concepts in Microcomputer Graphics by Artwick (hardcover) $10 -AT&T PC6300 Made Easy (hardcover) $4 -Basics Reference Manual 2 vol covering: PC jr., DEC Rainbow, C64, TRS Model 100 portable, Atari, Apple, VIC-20, and IBM $8 -Mastering C64 $0 -Using and Programming the IBM PC/AT $0 -Comprehensive Guide to the IBM PC $3 -Applied BASIC for Microcomputers $0 -IBM PC Conversion Handbook of BASIC $0 -Programming in BASIC for the IBM PC (hardcover) $2 -IBM PC/XT BASIC $0 -BASIC Scientific Subroutines 2 vol (hardcover) $10 -Microsoft BASIC $0 -C64 BASIC Made Easy (hardcover) $5 -Assembler for the IBM PC (hardcover) $5 -dBase II for beginners (hardcover) $3 -Hard Disk Management w/ diskette $3 -Laboratory Automation with the IBM PC (hardcover) $0 -IBM PC in the Lab (hardcover) $3 -Interfacing to S-100/IEEE 696 Microcomputers (Osborne) $0 -Interfacing Lab Applications to Microcomputers for Instrumentation, Data Analysis, and Control $3 -16 bit Microprocessors 8086 and 68000 $3 -8086/8087/8088 Macro Assembler Reference Manual (published by Intel in 3 ring binder format) $5 -Microcomputer systems: architecture, programming, and design of the 8086/8088 Family (hardcover) $8 -Microcomputer experimentation with the Intel SDK-85 $5 -Z80 Assembler (Osborne) $3 -Z8000 Assembler (Osborne) $5 -Z8000 Microcomputer Design Handbook (hardcover) $5 -Z8000 User's Reference Manual (Zilog) $5 -MC68000 Microprocessor Handbook (Osborne) $5 -MC68000 16/32 bit Microprocessor Programmer's Reference Manual (Motorola) $5 -MC68881 and 2 Floating Point Coprocessor User's Manual $0 -Programming and Designing with the 68000 Family (hardcover) $5 -MC68000 Assembler (hardcover) $5 -MC68000 Microprocessor Family Assembler (hardcover) $5 -6502 Assembler (Osborne) $5 -MIPS RISC Architecture - R2000/2010 and R3000/3010 $0 -Realtime Personal Computing for Data Acquisition and Control (big) $5 -Microcomputer Interfacing (hardcover) $3 -Microprocessor-based design: a comprehensive guide (big) $5 -Complete Guide to RS-232 and Parallel Connections (big) $10 -RS-232 Made Easy $5 -IBM PC/XT - Making the Right Connections (outstanding - device level, data communications, and LAN with photographs and is hardcover) $10 -Microprocessor Hardware Operation and Troubleshooting with IBM PC Applications (hardcover) $10 -CP/M User Guide (Osborne) $3 -Apple PC for Beginners (Apple II) (hardcover) $5 -Apple IIe PC for Beginners $3 -Apple House (computerize your home) (hardcover) $5 -Apple IIe BASIC for technical applications $0 -Apple II/IIe Robotic Arm Projects (hardcover) $3 -Calculator Clout $3 -Scientific Analysis for Programmable Calculators $3 -Innovations in Electronic Mail '88 $5 UNIX System V 1987 by AT&T $20 for library: -Utilities Release Notes -Programmer's Guide -Programmer's Reference Manual -Streams Primer -Network Programmer's Guide -Streams Programmer's Guide -User's Guide (2nd edition) -User's Reference Manual UNIX System V/386 by AT&T $20 for library: -Release 4 Product Overview and Master Index '91 -Programmer's Reference Manual '88 - Streams Primer '88 -System Administrator's Reference Manual '88 -User's Guide (2nd edition) '88 -Programmer's Guide '88 -Streams Programmer's Guide '88 -Network Programmer's Guide '88 -System Administrator's Guide '88 other UNIX books by AT&T: -The UNIX System User's Manual '86, AT&T Info Systems $5 -The UNIX System User's Guide '86, AT&T Bell Labs (hardcover) $10 -UNIX System Readings and Applications 2 volumes '87 $10 -AT&T Computer Software Catalog UNIX System V Software '87 (thick) $5 -AT&T Computer Software Catalog Workstation Software '87 (thick) $5 other UNIX books: -The Design of the UNIX operating system '86 (hardcover) $10 -UNIX Administration Guide for System V $3 -The UNIX System V Environment $3 -X Window System Version 11, Release 4 complete reference to: Xlib, Protocol, ICCCM, and XLFD $3 -X Window System Toolkit $2 -Open Software Foundation, Application Environment Specification, (AES) User Environment Volume '91 (hardcover) $5 -OSF/Motif Style Guide '90 $0 -OSF/Motif User's Guide '90 $0 -OSF/Motif Programmer's Guide '90 $0 -OSF/Motif Reference Guide '90 $0 That's all folks. Happy collecting. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 .

27 years, 4 months

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