- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

PS/2s nicer than expected; some questions

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 24.3.1999 15:57:21 Eastern Standard Time, lwalker(a)mail.interlog.com writes: > > Over the weekend I acquired some interesting PS/2 machines: a PS/2 P70 386 > > portable, and a PS/2 Model 95 XP 486 server. This was my first experience > > with the PS/2 family, and I was pleasantly surprised. From what I remember > > when PS/2s were new, the media savaged them, mainly due to high price and > > the incompatibility with all existing ISA cards, RAM, etc. > > > > I was impressed with the build quality and design of the machines (the > > power supply in the M95 XP486 for example: undo one butterfly screw and > the > > whole thing swivels out, allowing easy access to the drive bays) and with > > the ease of configuration of Microchannel cards - better Plug and Play > than > > with many peripherals on Win 9x machines. > > > The PS/2 is one of the lines I collect. They were a remarkable machine. > Unfortunately IBM goofed in charging exhorbitant liscensing fees for the > MCA which gave birth to the EISA consortium. I have an 8530 (XT model), > 8557 (386,SCSI and fast UART), 8560 (tower 286), 8570-A21 (386, my fastest > at 25mhz with coprocesser and cache) , 8580 (386, introduced PS/2 MCA line > and VGA (on planar), tower, built like a tank-my favorite) and several > spares. > Want a P70 and 95 to fill out the line. > MCA was PnP before it became a "feature" The major drawback is the > availability and price of the cards. Virtually all the PS/2s were easily > disassembled. > > > Some questions: > > > > 1) Why did Microchannel fail so completely? From a user point of view it > > seems quite nice. > > > MCA, EISA, and the price. The 8580 sold for $10,000 bare. It's still used > quite > extensively in the corporate world tho. > > > 2) Can MFM or IDE drives be used with an ESDI controller, or do the drives > > have to be ESDI drives? > > > As others have mentioned ESDI is ESDI, but cards are available for IDE or > SCSI. > > > 3) Anybody know if the 486DX33 on the processor board can be replaced with > > an Overdrive chip to make it at least a 486/66; or, does IBM still run > > their parts depot in Boulder for old machines? > > > IBM still supplies but as in all things IBM at hugely inflated prices. > There > are several alternate sources which the "MCA Mafia" on the PS2 newsgroup > can apprise you of. > > > 3) I'm having some trouble with the P70. Originally, it wouldn't boot at > > all. I ran the diagnostics from the Reference Disk, and all tests were > > passed. I re-ran the Auto Configuration with no errors. I installed PC- DOS > > 6.3, and formatted the built-in HD at the same time. Everything seems fine, > > > but the system won't boot from the hard drive alone. If I boot with a > > floppy in the drive, I can access the HD and run programs off of it. But > > without a floppy, nothing works. Any ideas? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > There was a discussion regarding this recently (and earlier) on the > newsgroup. > Some models have info re set-up on the HD, and if you erase this when > fomatting > there are certain steps you must do to reinstall the reference info. Can't > remember the details but the "MCA Mafia" are quite helpful. You could also > check out Peter Wendt's site to see if there's anything regarding this > problem. > > http://members.aol.com/mcapage0/mcaindex.htm > you can also visit IBM canada at: www.can.ibm.com/helpware/vintage.html there is info on family 1 and ps2 products. I got from a good source that the reason MCA was discontinued was because if the bus speed was increased in order to keep up with PCI, that would have started encroaching on the RS/6K machines. Also, MCA was expensive because extensive development had to be done to every card. Every MCA option/device was GUARANTEED to work. None of this plugandpray stuff. supr 'love my PS/2s' dave

27 years, 4 months

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Seller's market

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 11:08 AM 3/21/99 -0500, you wrote: >The messages by some of the participants shows that they really do not >understand [or perhaps do not want] the concept of a free market. What they >really want is a highly imperfect market so that they can buy things at low >prices even though there are people around who are willing to pay more >[given the presumption that all sellers will sell to the highest bidder ..... Well said. >But, perhaps a better way would be for E-Bay to create a new class of >"Bonded Buyers and Sellers", Sounds a lot like a high feedback rating to me... >in which E-Bay has credit card numbers from both buyer and seller, and both >buyer and seller have agreed to binding arbritration by a 3rd party [E-Bay]. except that that opens eBay up to a lot of legal responsibility that they're probably quite happy to avoid. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 4 months

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sellers market

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 11:34 AM 3/20/99 -0700, you wrote: >the belief that no one will outbid that value, and then abort the >transaction after the auction ends. This gets the auctioneer paid at the >seller's expense, yet costs me nothing. Next month I use a different email >account to identify myself, and all's well with eBay. Actually, if the item doesn't sell (bidder backs out) the seller doesn't have to pay eBay. And it does cost you something -- negative feedback on the old account and no feedback on the new account. Destroys that sense of trust everyone is so fond of. (And I seem to recall someone mentioning that eBay requires a credit card if you're coming from one of the free services.) BTW, everyone pisses and moans about eBay in regards to classic computers, but they forget that you *can* get really good deals on other types of collectibles through eBay. (I've gotten deals on: cookware, donald duck stuff, miniature land rovers, buttons, etc.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 4 months

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Rebirth of IMSAI

by mbg＠world.std.com

>You mean things like GT40 lunar lander, which is (IMHO) a classic game... I have the source for that... a copy of the source that Max.B and I hacked on years ago (1976/77) to get it working on a pdp-11/40 based VT11/VR14... I think it is more up-to-date than is available on the web... I'll have to track it down... There were some changes we had to make for a different clock (KW11-P) and adjusting some values on the intensity of some vectors which hit by the light pen... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 4 months

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sellers market

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 05:15 PM 3/19/99 -0800, you wrote: >Yes, an open market WITH MECHANISMS IN PLACE TO ENCOURAGE THE RAMPANT >ESCALATION OF PRICES BEYOND ANY REASONABLE ASSUMPTION OF "FAIR MARKET >VALUE"! Look me straight in the eye and tell me that you think the way >ebay structures its service does not lead to unreasonable price Are you referring to something eBay does specifically, or to auctions in general? If the latter, you need to go a little further back in history than eBay to place blame. >The price an idiot decides to pay for a certain something does not and >should not define what the rest of us should have to pay! No, but it does define what an opportunist can expect other idiots to pay. And until there are no more idiots, there will always be opportunists waiting in line to separate them from their money. >Without ebay, do you honestly think that people would be regularly paying >$3,000 for Altairs and IMSAIs? Of course not! Take ebay, remove their >silly auction mechanisms, replace them with a basic best-offer paradigm Sure they would, but they would be doing it through small ads in the back of InfoWorld, Wall Street Journal, The New Yorker, etc. And instead of ending up in the hands of someone like Alex (no offense, Alex!) who actually knows what they are and will preserve them, if not actually use them, they would end up on Mrs. Rittenhouse's coffee table being used as a magazine rack. If you don't believe me, take a look in the back of the NYer, Smithsonian, etc. and you'll see all kinds of artifacts listed for sale as decorative items. (Things like carousel horses, radios, old sewing machines, gas station pumps, etc.) >Appreciate sure, but based on rational, measurable attributes. But to be Everything appreciates in value *solely* based on the quantity available, number of people who want it, and the ability of the current owner to contact as many of the potential market as possible. If I've got the only fliggleblaster in the world, and there are 200 people who want one, the value will go up *if* I can get in touch with those 200 people. If instead, I look at my fliggleblaster and think "Geez, look at this old P.O.S., nobody would ever want this" and stick it back on the shelf, its value is nil. Likewise, if I post it on eBay, and exactly 0 people in the world want one, it won't sell for even a cent. But, when you can get in touch with buyers, and they're actually interested, then your value goes up. The more buyers, the more uncommon the item, the higher the price. That's why auctions have been around for centuries. All eBay does is put sellers in touch with potential buyers. (And yes, people know the word "Altair", but that simply affects the number of people interested; it's not eBay's fault.) >There is hoarding going on by individuals hoping to cash in years from now >when they expect this ridiculous craze to hit a fevered pitch. At the >rate we're going, if this keeps up then nobody will be able to afford >anything older than 1990, and that will be a god damn shame. There was a guy (whose name escapes me at the moment) who advertised in all the papers that he would pay an exorbitant amount of money for a particular coin (and yes, I should know the details). No one ever found one; he knew that all 5 examples were already accounted for. But, it got people looking at their pocket change, and offering him other old/interesting coins. He built quite a business out of it too. And I know a number of people who regularly take trips to Mexico, the Philippines, etc. looking for antiques that they buy dirt cheap, bring back to the states, and sell for outrageous prices to collectors and decorators. As long as there are idiots out there... All you can do is kill all the stupid people. (Or, kill all the greedy people, but they reproduce faster than you can make bullets. Hmmm... For that matter, stupid people reproduce even faster. Sorry.) >them). But when people realize that there is an alternative, they may >forsake ebay altogether in preference to a more sane environment like a >buy/sell/trade board. You WILL build a loyal following eventually and you You will build a loyal following of eBay sellers who buy stuff cheap from you and sell it for $$$ on eBay. Duh. Sure, sell me an Altair for $50, and watch me fidget and squirm as I try not to parlay that into a new bathroom because of "principles". >That's a silly statement. Of course you see no alternatives because no >one yet has dared tried to build one. Instead of being discouraging, its Um, actually, there is an alternative, and Marvin has mentioned it once or twice. Build a reputation and those that are not simply after $$$ will give their computers to you. There's nothing you can do about the guy who wants $10K for his vic-20 and not a penny less, but the guy who wants his beloved Sharp PC-5000 to have a good home may just send it to you for the cost of shipping. As for collector-to-collector trades, there is a medium for that as well, and you're looking at it. >Ebay has done nothing but to cut out the footwork for the lazy people, >and charge them a premium for it. Ta-da! And there you have it. The secret of getting rich. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 4 months

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Museums

by dogas＠leading.net

Someone else mentioned a inter 'library/museum' loan system that I think can also be ironed out. I'd like to schedule a few checkouts and I also have some diverse stuff that could go on the circut... - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 4 months

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Museums

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 9:44 PM Subject: Re: Museums >>Saxonville, Mass. When I called, I was told that all they had left was >>a 2500 sq-ft area... at *$8* per sq-ft. That's US$20000 (I believe for >>a year), $1667/month. If this could be a club formed as a non-profit >>organization, and if I could get $10/month out of people, we'd need >>167 members just to pay for the space... Then we have electric, which >>I would suspect will be a major part of the cost for such a power-oriented >>hobby. > >Don't forget this is America, land of the lawsuit, something like this >would potentially need some hefty insurance because of all the "dangerous >items". > I would also imagine the museum brick and morter will have to be electronically shielded to allow things like trs-80 mod 1s to operate in a commercial zone. - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 4 months

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More details was: HP stuff

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I'd need the part number to be sure... but... if that's what I think it >is you're a very lucky camper. >That sounds like the HP Network Analyzer. It is sold as a Laptop unit >with custom HP network monitoring software. It is an HP4972A... Lan Protocol Analyzer 68010 processor Bootrom 4.0 keyboard Graphics HP-IB HP98628 at 20 2096992 bytes >If that's what I think it is - it is a CURRENT product, and sells for >anywhere from $15,000.00 to $60,000.00 depending on the options it has. wow... I didn't know that... I'm still using it at work... but need for it is waning a little, what with FDDI, Token Ring, ATM, etc... (unless it has options for other network media) I'll have to find out what price I might be able to get it for when/if it is excessed... it may be beyond me... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 4 months

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.DSK files.

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/rt/decus/ >> >> Just FTP there from your RT-11 system and you're set! > I may be going about this all wrong. > Firstly FTPing stuff implies an FTP client on the target system >and a modem. Modems I have, but how to get RSTS to talk to them is >not clear to me at this point on my learning curve. Acquiring and >installing Kermit and/or FTP software is something I want to do, but >have no clue presently. All in due time I suppose. I don't know of any FTP for a RSTS/E (or RSTS) machine, but there are several commercial and one freeware package for real RT-11 internet connectivity. See http://shop-pdp.kent.edu/ for information on the freeware package. > BUT: Do I really need RT11 to use the programs on the tapes, if >they will work under RSTS? I imagine not... so the real question is, >can I unpack the .DSK file uner RSTS V9.7? Good question! If there's some way that you can do a "file to device" copy under RSTS/E, then you'll be able to copy the .DSK to a real disk and then mount that as a RT-11 volume. I've never done this on RSTS/E, but if you ask where all the experts hang out (comp.os.rsts) you'll probably get a good answer. Note that I've written several tools for manipulating RT-11 .DSK files on "foreign" systems, and many classic Unices shipped with similar tools. The RT-11 filesystem is simple enough that such tools are easy to write. See http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/rt/ldto… for a tool that I've suggested in the past when folks have asked "how can I read a .DSK without a real RT-11 system?" -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 4 months

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.DSK files.

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> I am trying to use some DECUS tapes which I obtained; they exist >on tape as one large file with extent .DSK . > Any info on how I can get started unpacking thses files? Others have already told you about MOUNT, but if you just want easy access to the unpacked files, all the RT-11 DECUS SIG tapes (about 300 Megabytes worth) are available by anonymous FTP from ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/rt/decus/ Just FTP there from your RT-11 system and you're set! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 4 months

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Big Commodore PET Haul - trades? for sale?

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Lawrence LeMay <lemay(a)cs.umn.edu> wrote: > > Hmm.... I _do_ have a 25Mhz NeXT slab > > Hmm, what is required to duplicate an OS disk for an old NeXT cube? If > memory serves, they used some sort of optical disk. NeXT cubes did ship with an optical disk. I have a slab. It has room inside for a 3.5" SCSI disk and has a 2.88Mb floppy for removable media. It is monochrome and otherwise resembles (from point of view of the software that runs on it) a faster version of the cube. I haven't seen a cube up close since they first came out. Perhaps people wanted to find out if the case really was made of magnesium and set them on fire? :-) -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

27 years, 4 months

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FW: PDP-11/83 looking for good home

by kyrrin＠my-dejanews.com

Arrrgh! Why couldn't this guy have been in north Seattle or something? I've been hunting for an 11/83! Anyone in Ohio looking for a nice PDP in a Worldbox? Attachment follows. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:25:09 -0500, in comp.sys.dec you wrote: >>From: matuscak(a)rohrer.com (Joe Matuscak) >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec >>Subject: PDP-11/83 looking for good home >>Message-ID: <MPG.1162bfd24561aa4989684(a)news-server.neo.rr.com> >>X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10 >>Lines: 13 >>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:25:09 -0500 >>NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.210.200.18 >>X-Complaints-To: abuse(a)neo.rr.com >>X-Trace: dustdevil.neo.rr.com 922285509 204.210.200.18 (Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:25:09 EDT) >>NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:25:09 EDT >>Organization: Road Runner High Speed Online -- Northeast Ohio >>Path: news1.jps.net!news-west.eli.net!newsbox.grin.net!pants.skycache.com!howland.erols.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!204.210.223.23!dustdevil.neo.rr.com!not-for-mail >>Xref: news1.jps.net comp.sys.dec:89 >> >>We have a PDP-11/83 system (BA123 worldbox, 2 DHQ11, RD54, TK50, LA120, >>LA324) that is looking for a home. It's running MicroRSTS and is working. >>We are located in northeast Ohio. Call or email me. >> >>Thanks, >> >>-- >>Joe Matuscak >>Rohrer Corporation >>717 Seville Road >>Wadsworth, Ohio 44281 >>(330)335-1541 >>matuscak(a)rohrer.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."

27 years, 4 months

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PS/2s nicer than expected; some questions

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 24.3.1999 1:41:26 Eastern Standard Time, gregorym(a)cadvision.com writes: > 1) Why did Microchannel fail so completely? From a user point of view it > seems quite nice. > > 2) Can MFM or IDE drives be used with an ESDI controller, or do the drives > have to be ESDI drives? > > 3) Anybody know if the 486DX33 on the processor board can be replaced with > an Overdrive chip to make it at least a 486/66; or, does IBM still run > their parts depot in Boulder for old machines? > > 3) I'm having some trouble with the P70. Originally, it wouldn't boot at > all. I ran the diagnostics from the Reference Disk, and all tests were > passed. I re-ran the Auto Configuration with no errors. I installed PC-DOS > 6.3, and formatted the built-in HD at the same time. Everything seems fine, > but the system won't boot from the hard drive alone. If I boot with a > floppy in the drive, I can access the HD and run programs off of it. But > without a floppy, nothing works. Any ideas? > ah, the PS/2 models, my favourite. truly state of the art for the time. Its my opinion that MCA didnt fail. Look at all the ps2 stuff you'll find at hamfests and company surplus. I have lots of old software that mentions compatibilties with ps2s, even netware 2.2! One reason I was told it was discontinued was that around 1994, MCA was starting to conflict with the PCI bus machines that were coming out. the model 95 you have is pretty nice. plenty of drive bays and DMA io ports, parity or ECC mem, SCSI with cache, selectable boot drive, worldwide power supply and even that little LED panel that you can even make it say what you want. I know there were 25mhz models upgradeable to 33mhz and a pentium upgrade somewhere. IBM still has their parts counter in boulder, CO. http://www.direct.ibm.com david

27 years, 4 months

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.DSK files.

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>4) to disassociate the LD with the file, > type DISMOUNT LDn: >Sounds like you're getting off a horse! Should have >been, probably, UNMOUNT. Nope, it's DISMOUNT. If you've ever got any such doubts about RT-11 commands, just type HELP, or if you don't have a RT-11 system handy at the moment: http://www.trailing-edge.com/~shoppa/rthelp/ gives you the RT-11 5.7 HELP information. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 4 months

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Museums

by mbg＠world.std.com

>FWIW there are more than one kind of museum. There is a "Tech museum" >kind that has a bunch of pretty displays behind plexiglass and the >"research" kind. (And a whole bunch that are somewhere in the middle). >If you have privileges at a research museum you can work on and/or use >parts of the collection that are not available for "general" use. I would >expect that a good research computer museum would be a great place to >visit. All this talk of museums... I've been toying with the idea of trying to set up something like that... Along the lines of RCS/RI... I was wondering how such groups got started... how did/do they afford storage places... Are there people in the eastern-mass area who might be interestd in trying to put one together? What I've been thinking of is a place where people can put their systems on display -- static while being worked on, with help >from volunteers, and dynamic once working. At least when working I would hope that people could use a terminal to use/program it. Obviously, not everyone would be allowed to actually touch the innards of a system or the removable bits... that would be reserved for those who have an expressed interest/knowledge of a specific system. Otherwise, people would have to settle for terminal access, or supervised access. I was thinking of contacting the current owners of the Maynard Mill to see if there was any possibility of donation of (or reduced rental) on a space there... it would be neat if some DEC systems could return home for display... What do people think? What if we had a 'chain' of said museums, run by members of the classiccmp list, all over the country... would make it easier to have VCF-east,south, midwest, etc... Pardon my ramblings... I guess I'm disappointed with the Boston Computer Museum, some of what I've heard about the Computer Museum at Moffett field is criminal, plus it is too far away as is VCF, and with my schedule I've been unable to get to RCS/RI... (plus, I know my partner would like to see me move some of my collection out... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 4 months

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PS/2s nicer than expected; some questions

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

Mark Gregory wrote: >Over the weekend I acquired some interesting PS/2 machines: a PS/2 P70 386 >portable, and a PS/2 Model 95 XP 486 server. This was my first experience >with the PS/2 family, and I was pleasantly surprised. From what I remember >when PS/2s were new, the media savaged them, mainly due to high price and >the incompatibility with all existing ISA cards, RAM, etc. > >I was impressed with the build quality and design of the machines (the >power supply in the M95 XP486 for example: undo one butterfly screw and the >whole thing swivels out, allowing easy access to the drive bays) and with >the ease of configuration of Microchannel cards - better Plug and Play than >with many peripherals on Win 9x machines. I quite like them too. My favourite machine (although I don't have much software installed on it) is a model 76 with a DX2/66 chip, an original IBM XGA monitor and OS/2 2.1 installed. This combination just seems to work really well. Not classic yet though. > >Some questions: > >1) Why did Microchannel fail so completely? From a user point of view it >seems quite nice. > I don't think it failed completely. It was widely used in corporate situations. Not built for the shoestring home market. EISA competed with it in it's day and avoided an IBM license fee, and later PCI improved on it. >2) Can MFM or IDE drives be used with an ESDI controller, or do the drives >have to be ESDI drives? > ESDI is ESDI, MFM is MFM and IDE is IDE. They don't mix. >3) Anybody know if the 486DX33 on the processor board can be replaced with >an Overdrive chip to make it at least a 486/66; or, does IBM still run >their parts depot in Boulder for old machines? > That will work fine. >3) I'm having some trouble with the P70. Originally, it wouldn't boot at >all. I ran the diagnostics from the Reference Disk, and all tests were >passed. I re-ran the Auto Configuration with no errors. I installed PC-DOS >6.3, and formatted the built-in HD at the same time. Everything seems fine, >but the system won't boot from the hard drive alone. If I boot with a >floppy in the drive, I can access the HD and run programs off of it. But >without a floppy, nothing works. Any ideas? Other than basic stuff like not marking the partition active I don't know about this one. Try checking for bad sectors. Also try fdisk /mbr.

27 years, 4 months

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Pro-350 anyone?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Yes, but apparently it's freely distributable. And in the absence of a <license, I think that implies that derived works are freely distributable <as well. My hypothetical reverse-engineerined "source code" would obviousl <be a derived work. I'd say if it was done non-profit and protpper credit given there would be little room for squawks. I have no idea if that would fly legally, however intent is sometimes important. Allison

27 years, 4 months

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sellers market - firearms + 386 upgrade for sale

by KFergason＠aol.com

In a message dated 3/23/99 9:59:17 PM Central Standard Time, bluoval(a)mindspring.com writes: > > E-Bay banned fire arms for two reasons: > Are these reasons official? > > > First, they couldn't do the background checks or check for stolen weapons. > A legally valid reason, but likely an excuse. > > The first is a given, but its not an excuse, its the law. When did this become law? State laws vary, but Texas has no such requirement concerning private sales. So that this message will have some on-topic content: I have some Cyrix 386 to 486 clock-doubled upgrade microprocessors. Box says it upgrades the 386DX-16, 20 and 25 Mhz. Part number is Cx485DRx2-25/50. Three of them in shrinkwrap, 1 opened, I have no clue if it was ever used. Best offer within the next few days. Kelly KFergason(a)aol.com

27 years, 4 months

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Museums

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

Megan wrote: > What if we had a 'chain' of said museums, run by members of > the classiccmp list, all over the country... would make it > easier to have VCF-east,south, midwest, etc... All over the country? Is this the right time to try and resurrect VCF-UK? Or even VCF-Europe? Marvin replied: > That is a really good idea! One of the perceptive comments made at last > years VCF was that it was a "social gathering." It was and is wonderful to > be able to meet and talk with others who enjoy collecting this stuff. A BIG > advantage is that any future dealings with people we meet are based on > something other than just email. This personal network of people we know > makes for a higher confidence level with any transactions that might take > place. Hear, hear! Seriously, I think that some sort of permanently-installed VCF type locations, where volunteers could come and work on exhibits, and where (possibly) trade could be carried out, would be very useful. And as I said before, I am prepared to sponsor the UK one to the tune of quite a bit of money, _if_ enough people are committed that there is a chance of making it work. (Once it's got going, I think it should be self supporting from members' subscriptions and possibly trade commissions or visitors' donations, or even commercial sponsorship :-( , but I'm not optimistic enought to think that it would work that well from the start). Philip. PS A model for trade at a permanent VCF. I was introduced to it by my brother when we were both visiting my parents... Large building full of junk. Anyone can go in and browse, and ask prices, buy things, etc. The arrangement is: you have junk you want to sell. Take it in and say "I want X pounds for this widget." The staff either say, "fine" and put it on the shelves, or say "no thanks, we don't think that'll sell (or is legal, or whatever). When someone buys something, the owners of the "trading post" (as it is called) take a commission (I think 25%) and hand the rest to the seller. If it doesn't sell after a certain length of time, they ask the seller to reduce the price or take it away or whatever. P. PPS before anyone flames me for suggesting commercial sponsorship, it would be absolutely necessary to have strict rules like the committee vets all sponsors, no conditions of "must have machine Z on display", etc.

27 years, 4 months

4
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Pro-350 anyone?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< What all is the DEC LK201 used on. I know it works on the Rainbow, Decmat <and now the Pro-350. Was this kind of a general purpose DEC keyboard ? < There's a raft of them in the main branch of the local Goodwil, left behin <when a bunch of Rainbows were either scooped up or junked. Rainbow, DECMATEII/III, Vt2xx, Vaxstations, Pros and on and on. It was the generic keyboard design. the LK3xx and LK4xx series are later, lowercost and interchangeable. <Has F1-12 on top and F13-15 between the main and num keypads next to <term ans, copy, and a square image. It has an 8-trace connector kind of lik <oversized RJ45. No external label but internally has a "Cherry", Waukegan, <label, and B4VE-A302, 51941115 Rev. F. It was manufactored in 84. The <main chip is mounted, 350M 9103, VANILLA, REV C . Anyone got a clue as to <what this is or a need for it ? Sounds like the LK250 used for VAXmate and PC use. Allison

27 years, 4 months

1
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Museums

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

-----Original Message----- From: Megan <mbg(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, 24 March 1999 10:03 Subject: Re: Museums >>I think our vision of such a place may be something like a Cybercafe with >>a dedicated place for old computer equipment to be renovated and >>experimented with. Obviously there would be a place for visiting >>computers systems as well as space for "The Collection". Ahem, yes. Mine too. I run an Internet Cafe. We have a big workshop out the back, which is partly filled with Vaxen in various stages of repair/decomposition. As well, I use an 8530/CIBCA? and TU78/TA78 pair as a room divider in the cafe, and a HSC50 and a half height cabinet, with 3 RA81's in it, as a counter. Oh, yeah, there's a 6310 and SA600 (working system) in there too. (Single phase conversion done) There is a large warehouse (ex-bakery) next door, (was a s/h shop but they went broke) that I am trying to rent at a reasonable rate. The landlord currently wants unreasonable rates, by local standards. (it's a small place, 15000 or so) It's perfect, solid building, big doors, concrete floors, 3 phase power (they had electric kilns) and plenty of room for even very big systems, which I hope to specialise in, several desktop machine "museums" around, but very few with big iron it seems. (I'm currently looking for PDP-8, PDP-11, Vax, Prime and IBM "big stuff" in Oz, preferably South Australia) A Cray would be nice too, but no idea where I'd find one.... Any other big systems that list members think might be worthy of inclusion? >>I propose the Cybercafe part to raise enough revenue to pay for the space >>but I down't really know if you could generate enough to keep out of the >>red. Not at the moment, but it looks like it might eventually, diversity is the key, we also do repairs and sell s/h systems. Tea, Coffee, Lollies, drinks and ice-creams do surprisingly well too. In a museum they'd probably do better. Surprisingly good market for $100-200 computers, of the 386/486 variety. People on Unemployment, Supporting Parent and Invalid Pensions can't afford to buy $1500 new computers, and typically just want to play a few games and do a little word processing...... >if I were a little more financially >set (like after winning a lottery), Now that would help, I'd buy the whole damn place off this guy, $100k would buy my shop, the attached house, and the bakery complex..... Seriously, I think your concept is good, biggest headache is floor space, my bet is that you need to set up in a smaller place, a country town, not too far from a big city, but where the rents for warehouse space don't look like the NASA budget. I suspect this is why most museums I've seen/heard of concentrate on desktop stuff, they don't need a huge area to house it. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia. Email: geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au ICQ #: 1970476 Phone: 61-8-8633-8834 Mobile: 61-411-623-978 Fax: 61-8-8633-0104

27 years, 4 months

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HP disk drive command set

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

I just sent a CS-80 reference manual to a list member..... Jay West -----Original Message----- From: jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com <jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, March 22, 1999 11:08 PM Subject: Re: HP disk drive command set >Joe: > >Yes, I could use this; I won't be getting a CS-80 document any time soon. >WOrk continues on the disassembly. I'll be getting a new interface pod >for my logic analyzer in a couple of weeks, so I'll be able to take a >look >around 'inside'. > >Thanks. > > >Jeff > > >On Mon, 22 Mar 1999 20:50:09 Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> writes: >>Jeff, >> >> I finally found my copy of the docs for the HP Amigo command set. Do >>you >>still need a copy? >> >> >> Joe >> > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >

27 years, 4 months

3
3
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Wanted: HP RuggedWriters

by sieler＠allegro.com

Hi, I'm visting a client of mine, and when I walked into his office, I saw two HP RuggedWriters opened up, with their parts strewn around. They're trying to combin two broken ones to make one working one. Their business relies on the HP RuggedWriter, which is now obsolete and not supported by HP. If anyone can point me to some used RuggedWriters, I'd appreciate it! thanks, -- Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com http://www.allegro.com/sieler.html

27 years, 4 months

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More details was: HP stuff

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

I'd need the part number to be sure... but... if that's what I think it is you're a very lucky camper. That sounds like the HP Network Analyzer. It is sold as a Laptop unit with custom HP network monitoring software. If that's what I think it is - it is a CURRENT product, and sells for anywhere from $15,000.00 to $60,000.00 depending on the options it has. Let me know the part number and I'll hunt it up for ya. Jay -----Original Message----- From: Megan <mbg(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 5:42 PM Subject: Re: More details was: HP stuff >With all this talk about HP stuff... I have the chance to get ahold >of one of the HP Ethernet network trace units... it is something like >an HP9273 (I'll have to check)... > >It has a 5" Green monitor, flip-down keyboard in the cover, AUI >port. It can boot from 3.5" floppy or internal hard disk (which >may be 20 or so MB...) I think it uses a 68020 processor (?). > >Can this boot something other than the HP network analysis >software? Are there any development tools which someone >can get ahold of which can be used to write software for >it? > >I know I can use it on my home network... but it would be a neat >hack to also be able to develop software for it (maybe see if a >unix port is possible...) > >If anyone can identify it from my somewhat scattered description, >great... if not, I'll get the info and ask again... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ >| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | >| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | >| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | >| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | >| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | >| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > >

27 years, 4 months

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HP phone numbers...

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

Here's some handy phone numbers... HP Service Parts Identification: 916-783-0804 I don't know for sure if this number is for public dissemination, but I know they don't ask for a reseller number or anything when you call. They can identify part numbers for you, cross reference part numbers, etc. Generally they can also translate mfg. part numbers to replacement (refurb, etc.) part numbers too. You can get some info just via touch tones, but eventually you can get a real human to look things up for you. This number even has selections for the 1000 series, test and measurement, medical, etc... HP Direct: 800-227-8164 This number is for ordering ANY hp parts. They ask for a reseller number, but this is only to determine discount levels. They will sell to the general public (those without a reseller number) but only at list price. So - this number is definitely "open to the public" as long as you don't mind paying list. Generally when a product is discontinued HP clears the shelves and trashes anything past the EOS (end of support) date. However, when you call HP Direct if the product is not stocked and no longer made, I suggest you ask them for the number for FRD. This is their division which handles remanufactured gear (I don't have the number with me at the moment). They might have that 1972 widget on a shelf... :) There is also a strictly touch tone part ID phone number which I used to have but lost. One of these days I'll ask another CE for it. You punch in the part number and a recording tells you what the product is, what major assembly it goes with, updated (replacement) part numbers, etc. Anyone have this? Finally, if anyone needs a really tough HP part number tracked down, just let me know. I can get access indirectly to the HP internal parts database (PAL) which has every part HP ever made in it. I even tested it out with a dust cover plug from an HP41C calculator and it brought it right up. I don't want to abuse this route with my contact - but if anyone needs that on rare occasion feel free to contact me. Cheers! Jay West

27 years, 4 months

2
1
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Museums

by mbg＠world.std.com

>All over the country? > >Is this the right time to try and resurrect VCF-UK? > >Or even VCF-Europe? Whoops... I apologize for being too Ameri-centric... I should know better... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 4 months

1
0
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Museums

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I think our vision of such a place may be something like a Cybercafe with >a dedicated place for old computer equipment to be renovated and >experimented with. Obviously there would be a place for visiting >computers systems as well as space for "The Collection". Yes, yes... that's it exactly... >I propose the Cybercafe part to raise enough revenue to pay for the space >but I down't really know if you could generate enough to keep out of the >red. My problem is that I don't have the time to organize it myself, nor the courage to take the risk... if I were a little more financially set (like after winning a lottery), I would consider it, but not right now... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 4 months

1
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HP phone numbers...

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

Hum, I've generally had good luck with SPID, but most of the old stuff I ask them about is 2000 related which really means "1000 series" for most intents and purposes. Since the 1000 stuff is more "current" perhaps that's why I've had better luck. Also, I must admit going straight to PAL rather than SPID. This avenue is open if you have a request :) Jay West -----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 3:34 PM Subject: Re: HP phone numbers... >Jay, > > Thanks for posting this but I've never had ANY luck with HP's parts >identification. I recently called about something for a HP9825 and they >swore they'd never made a 9825. Funny since I have about 8 of them sitting >here! They have also told me that there was NEVER a service manual for the >9815 (and others). I later found one. As I said, I have NEVER gotten any >help from them. It's a waste of a time to call them IMO. > > Thanks for the suggestion of the FRD. I'd heard of that but didn't know >how to get ahold of them. > > > BTW for any of you that try to locate docs for HP stuff, don't forget to >ask if they have a PN for the doc on micro-fiche. I've gotten lucky a >couple of times and got docs on fiche that weren't available on paper. > > > > Joe > >At 01:52 PM 3/23/99 -0600, you wrote: >>Here's some handy phone numbers... >> >>HP Service Parts Identification: 916-783-0804 >>I don't know for sure if this number is for public dissemination, but I know >>they don't ask for a reseller number or anything when you call. They can >>identify part numbers for you, cross reference part numbers, etc. Generally >>they can also translate mfg. part numbers to replacement (refurb, etc.) part >>numbers too. You can get some info just via touch tones, but eventually you >>can get a real human to look things up for you. This number even has >>selections for the 1000 series, test and measurement, medical, etc... >> >>HP Direct: 800-227-8164 >>This number is for ordering ANY hp parts. They ask for a reseller number, >>but this is only to determine discount levels. They will sell to the general >>public (those without a reseller number) but only at list price. So - this >>number is definitely "open to the public" as long as you don't mind paying >>list. >> >>Generally when a product is discontinued HP clears the shelves and trashes >>anything past the EOS (end of support) date. However, when you call HP >>Direct if the product is not stocked and no longer made, I suggest you ask >>them for the number for FRD. This is their division which handles >>remanufactured gear (I don't have the number with me at the moment). They >>might have that 1972 widget on a shelf... :) >> >>There is also a strictly touch tone part ID phone number which I used to >>have but lost. One of these days I'll ask another CE for it. You punch in >>the part number and a recording tells you what the product is, what major >>assembly it goes with, updated (replacement) part numbers, etc. Anyone have >>this? >> >>Finally, if anyone needs a really tough HP part number tracked down, just >>let me know. I can get access indirectly to the HP internal parts database >>(PAL) which has every part HP ever made in it. I even tested it out with a >>dust cover plug from an HP41C calculator and it brought it right up. I don't >>want to abuse this route with my contact - but if anyone needs that on rare >>occasion feel free to contact me. >> >>Cheers! >> >>Jay West >> >> >> >> > >

27 years, 4 months

1
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CS/80 Instruction Set Programming Manual - 5955-3442.

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

>CS/80 Instruction Set Programming Manual, part no. 5955-3442. Aw heck, why didn't you guys just say so :) Since in my day job I'm an HP reseller, I just did some checking with my HP sources. The following manual: CS/80 Instruction Set Programming Manual, part no. 5955-3442 (new part number 07957+49A-90003) is available. My cost is $24.00 each plus shipping. Does anyone want me to order some copies and ship? Jay West

27 years, 4 months

2
1
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MSCP controller docs?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Anyone got docs on programming the UDA50 MSCP controller? -------

27 years, 4 months

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CS/80 Instruction Set Programming Manual - 5955-3442.

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

I dunno Jay, you better check stock! I called HP about a week ago and they said it was on 'backorder'. They couldn't give me a lead time, either. Hm. I wonder if they were just jerking my chain . . . If they're in stock, put me down for one. Jeff On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:40:03 -0600 "Jay West" <jlwest(a)tseinc.com> writes: >>CS/80 Instruction Set Programming Manual, part no. 5955-3442. > > >Aw heck, why didn't you guys just say so :) > >Since in my day job I'm an HP reseller, I just did some checking with >my HP >sources. The following manual: > >CS/80 Instruction Set Programming Manual, part no. 5955-3442 (new >part >number 07957+49A-90003) is available. My cost is $24.00 each plus >shipping. > >Does anyone want me to order some copies and ship? > >Jay West > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 4 months

1
0
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Toshiba

by dchew＠engr.UVic.CA

Does anyone know how the fn keys work on the Toshiba T3100e40? I have one of these 286 and I have no idea how to use the fn combo with the F# keys. Also how do I get into the setup CMOS in one of these computers? Are there software that I can get to work with it, IE, powersavers and etc? Also how do I get the modem to work on the computer? I have noticed that there are already 2 builtin serial ports, one in back and one on the right hand side. Also what is little round plug used for, that is located on the left hand side of the laptop? Is that little plugin for a INPORT mouse or a Logitec Handheld scanner or what? Some models has a plastic plug in that socket. Thanks dan

27 years, 4 months

3
2
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Museums

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

>Actually sharing the Vision -- As long as we're doing the "Vision Thang" I'll kick in my $.018995211 worth. There used to be a nice book store in town called "A Clean Well Lighted Place for Books" and it was unique in that the people who worked there read, and they wanted you to read too. You could pick out a book, read a few chapters, talk with people who probably had already read it, etc. I thought it was really a cool place. So I figured I'd open "A Clean Well Lighted Place to Hack." Kind of the same deal, we'd sell quality technical books in addition to coke and twinkies :-) And one of the coolest parts would be the 'hack wall'. That would be a wall of single board computers and i/o lines from non computers connected to lights, speakers, fans, LED bar signs, etc. The idea being that if you needed something to "target" in order to hack some code the wall was available. Periodically we'd showcase the best "wall hack" where someone had several computers working together to do something cool on with the wall i/o. --Chuck

27 years, 4 months

1
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Moving Sale

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

Found this reference in another newsgroup. <CLIP> > > We are located in 411 W. River Rd, Elgin, IL 60123. > > Everything at http://www2.iteams.org/webadmin/moving_sale.htm is available. Our prices are highly negotiable. > > Philip > > -- > _______________________________________________________ > Philip Barker phil.barker(a)iteams.org > Asst Manager of Info Systems 847.429.0900 > International Teams - USA http://www.iteams.org </CLIP> Check under the "mini-computer" heading . They have a MICRO VAX II and a MICRO VAX III listed. Orginally, they had a TANDY 16 in the listing. I see that it has been removed :-( Please contact the seller directly. Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

27 years, 4 months

1
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Rebirth of IMSAI

by edick＠idcomm.com

I'm not at all sure I'd let current generation programmers mess with MY computer hardware. Thirty years ago, when programmers were not only the people hunched over a teletype, but also the guys who jumpered the 026 keypunch and knew how to decipher what was on a tape which wouldn't deskew properly, you could trust them to examine without damaging things. Over the past 20 years, however, I've observed that programmers have less and less concept of the reality of the computer in front of them or down the hall at the end of the cable . . . Such individuals would probably do damage, irreparable or otherwise, yet not only fail to grasp that it could happen, but deny it when faced with incontrovertible evidence of their sins. I don't know whether it's better to protect the old hardware, or the people's right to see it. I do know that I've observed perfectly adult-looking individuals doing things to computer equipment not their own, of which I would only accuse a child not tall enough to reach it. just my nickel's worth . . . (inflation) Dick -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin <max82(a)surfree.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, March 22, 1999 4:07 PM Subject: Re: Rebirth of IMSAI >On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Tony Duell wrote: >>Do you really think that such a display is an acceptable substitute for >>the real thing? > >Well, I would be very cautious about letting people use the 'real thing' >(see below). > >>If you keep a complete backup of the hard disk (something that's a good >>idea anyway), and possibly substitute the keyboard (if spares for it are >>impossible to obtain), then there's little that can be damaged from >>people using the machine. And an unoriginal keyboard is a lot better than >>an unoriginal CPU > >Yes, that's true. But how would the people use such a machine anyway? I >mean, if you put on a card some instructions, people will just type them >in not understanding the reasons for them, and not get any joy from it. >This is especially true for machines that don't use keyboards and >screens. Let's say we took a DEC running OS/8 and let people use it. What >would they do with it? They might type DIR, say "Oh, it's like DOS" and >walk way. > >>Are you sure about that. Some people are certainly interested in seeing >>how things (computers, steam engines, machine tools, etc) were used. I've >>been to plenty of interesting museums where many exhibits consist of >>somebody demonstrating something. > >Yes, but for a computer there's nothing to watch besides blinking lights. >For a steam engine, you see someone poke firewood, the wheel spinning, >smoke coming out, etc. > > --Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com) >

27 years, 4 months

3
5
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Rebirth of IMSAI

by edick＠idcomm.com

I'd say let 'em prove they know enough not to hurt anything before you let them at the "real McCoy" hardware. Test them out on a simulator complete with obscure anomalies, let them prove they won't roach the hard disk or dump the tape on the floor. Of course, I also advocate allowing only those who've passed a test on the issues/candidates vote. How silly can a guy get??? -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, March 22, 1999 5:45 PM Subject: Re: Rebirth of IMSAI >On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >> I'm not at all sure I'd let current generation programmers mess with MY >> computer hardware. Thirty years ago, when programmers were not only the >> people hunched over a teletype, but also the guys who jumpered the 026 >> keypunch and knew how to decipher what was on a tape which wouldn't deskew >> properly, you could trust them to examine without damaging things. Over the >> past 20 years, however, I've observed that programmers have less and less >> concept of the reality of the computer in front of them or down the hall at >> the end of the cable . . . >> >> Such individuals would probably do damage, irreparable or otherwise, yet not >> only fail to grasp that it could happen, but deny it when faced with >> incontrovertible evidence of their sins. > >Sure, so then you're in the camp that says lock them up and don't let >anyone ever touch them, much less see them? How then does one learn >anything about them? > >> I don't know whether it's better to protect the old hardware, or the >> people's right to see it. I do know that I've observed perfectly >> adult-looking individuals doing things to computer equipment not their own, >> of which I would only accuse a child not tall enough to reach it. > >If I were serious about creating a "museum" where I wanted people to be >able to handle the artifacts (and by the way, I am) I'd make sure that >each individual would be required to become a member, and membership would >entail some manner of education about proper handling of computer items, >including static discharge procedures, not pulling cards out of a live >system, etc. From basic electronics to storage media handling to >electrical safety precautions. Only after the new member passed this >training and proved competence would he/she be able to actively examine >and experiment with the artifacts. > >This has the side benefit of weeding out the weekend engineers and >ensuring that the truly interested and dedicated get access to the stuff. >The rest just get to look at it :) > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 02/15/99] >

27 years, 4 months

2
1
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FW: Toshiba

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

It's the second try at sending this message about getting into cmos. John -----Original Message----- From: John R. Keys Jr. [mailto:jrkeys@concentric.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 11:48 AM To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subject: RE: Toshiba Just holddown the Fn key while turning on the machine to get into cmos. John > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of CHEWSTER WOLFMAN > DAN > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 2:56 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Toshiba > > > > Does anyone know how the fn keys work on the Toshiba T3100e40? > > I have one of these 286 and I have no idea how to use the fn combo with > the F# keys. > > Also how do I get into the setup CMOS in one of these computers? > Are there software that I can get to work with it, IE, > powersavers and etc? > > Also how do I get the modem to work on the computer? I have noticed that > there are already 2 builtin serial ports, one in back and one on the > right hand side. Also what is little round plug used for, that is located > on the left hand side of the laptop? Is that little plugin for a INPORT > mouse or a Logitec Handheld scanner or what? Some models has a plastic > plug in that socket. > > Thanks > dan > > >

27 years, 4 months

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SoCal TRW Swap meet

by jpl15＠netcom.com

To all classiccmpers who might be in the Southern California area this coming weekend: The TRW Electronics and Ham Radio Swapmeet is this Saturday, the 27th March 1999, from 7:30 am until 11:30 am, at the TRW El Segundo facility. From the 405 (San Diego) freeway, take the Rosecrans exit west, proceed 1 mile to Aviation (under the Metrolink bridge) turn left (south) onto Aviation and go south about three blocks; parking and the Meet are in the southern lots of the plant.. just look for all the antennae on the cars. ;} Persons with Stuff to sell are welcome to use my Spaces (providing there's room); e-mail me privately for further details. Marvin has flaked out this time, so not only will I get all his goodies, we can talk about him behind his back at the After-Swap Classiccmp Brunch, provided anyone shows up for same. All are invited! Cheers John

27 years, 4 months

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HP GPIB Cables

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Just in time for all the HP items flowing thru The List: I have gotten about 25 GPIB cables which might be of interest to all you Hewlett-Packard types out there. Price: make offer on a few, U pay shipping... Cheers John

27 years, 4 months

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deletion and recovery of data

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Slashdot mentioned an interesting article titled "Secure Deletion of Data >from Magnetic and Solid-State Memory," which mentions relatively low-cost techniques for recovering data from supposedly "erased" media, which I suppose could be applied to recovery of data from classic computing devices: <http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/secure_del.html> - John

27 years, 4 months

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berman?

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

Someone posted earlier about some HP stuff at berman. I apologize, but lost the message. In any case, there were several items they mentioned were up this week that I might be interested in. However, I just received the list from BDI and it doesn't appear that such items are on the list. Any ideas? Jay West

27 years, 4 months

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HP disk drive command set

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

This document has been elusive for quite some time. There are no less than five of us on the list who are seeking it. I would be happy to reproduce/distribute this to all interested parties for cost . . . Jeff On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:57:52 -0600 "Jay West" <jlwest(a)tseinc.com> writes: >I just sent a CS-80 reference manual to a list member..... > >Jay West >-----Original Message----- >From: jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com <jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Monday, March 22, 1999 11:08 PM >Subject: Re: HP disk drive command set > > >>Joe: >> >>Yes, I could use this; I won't be getting a CS-80 document any time >soon. >>WOrk continues on the disassembly. I'll be getting a new interface >pod >>for my logic analyzer in a couple of weeks, so I'll be able to take >a >>look >>around 'inside'. >> >>Thanks. >> >> >>Jeff >> >> >>On Mon, 22 Mar 1999 20:50:09 Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> writes: >>>Jeff, >>> >>> I finally found my copy of the docs for the HP Amigo command set. >Do >>>you >>>still need a copy? >>> >>> >>> Joe >>> >> >>___________________________________________________________________ >>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >> > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 4 months

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Pro-350 anyone?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Since P/OS is "in the public domain" (having been contributed to DECUS), do <that mean that I can in principle reverse engineer it and publish my <reverse-engineered "source code"? Just a comment. No I don't think so. First DEC(Compaq) still holds the copyright and it's free for use, not free of copyright. Also I haven't seen a good disassembler for PDP11 (havent really looked either). Still POS with the programmers toolkit was a nice multiprogramming system with graphics back then. Allison

27 years, 4 months

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Rebirth of IMSAI

by mbg＠world.std.com

>But seriously, I would require even the most obviously technically astute >person to take some sort of qualifying "quiz" to make sure they indeed >knew what they were doing. If they failed any part of this quiz, they >would then be required to go through the entire informational course so >that they would have all the information needed to minimize (and >hopefully eliminate) any damage they could conceivably cause to any >artifacts. Anyone who would go through the trouble to fulfill this >requirement proves their sincerity and earns the right to access the >materials and artifacts. I like this... Provides education at the same time that you ensure that the systems will be at minimum risk... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 4 months

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.DSK files.

by jpl15＠netcom.com

I am trying to use some DECUS tapes which I obtained; they exist on tape as one large file with extent .DSK . Any info on how I can get started unpacking thses files? Now that the 9trk works, that is.. :) Cheers and Thanks.. John

27 years, 4 months

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Rebirth of IMSAI

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:05:30 -0500, Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> wrote: >>The tenative price of $500 seems awfully high to me. After all, it's not >>like there is a lot of R&D involved, the components aren't exactly >>cutting-edge, and to some extent the markets are already established. I don't recall Fischer's Web site quoting a price. I applied the price of $500 to a currently-mythical 25th Anniversary Edition kit which was my $0.02. I don't know if $500 is the right number either, but I figure that in a "new" IMSAI 8080 kit in low quantities, there'd be at least $75 in boards, $100++ for the case, $50 for the power supply, $25 for a silkscreened front panel and the rest, silicon, passives, switches, and the backplane connectors. And that doesn't iinclude any re-engineering costs to account for parts that have been discontinued or marked as "end-of-life." Given what happens when the old IMSAIs hit ePay, I'd pay $500 for a new kit that I could build myself. I don't know if I'd want a Pentium-class IMSAI with a front panel for $1200. I guess it would depend on how faithfully it reproduced/simulated the operation of the original. I also don't know if another bus standard is necessary, too. Personally, I'd prefer a kit, and I think that $500-600 is not unreasonable. I'm sure that if you open this up to the hobbyest community, you'd find enough takers to make a 500-unit quantity production run feasable. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <---------------------------- reply separator

27 years, 4 months

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HP disk drive command set

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Joe: Yes, I could use this; I won't be getting a CS-80 document any time soon. WOrk continues on the disassembly. I'll be getting a new interface pod for my logic analyzer in a couple of weeks, so I'll be able to take a look around 'inside'. Thanks. Jeff On Mon, 22 Mar 1999 20:50:09 Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> writes: >Jeff, > > I finally found my copy of the docs for the HP Amigo command set. Do >you >still need a copy? > > > Joe > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 4 months

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.DSK files.

by mbg＠world.std.com

> RT11 docs I have complete.. I can look up the 'logical disk' >stuff there. But if you are doing this on a RSTS machine, there is no concept of logical disks in the V3B RTS... Logical disks weren't added until much later in RT's life... (V5.?) > I think I've not just bitten off more than I can chew.. actually I >think the Sandwich itself is bigger than I am.... ;} Naw... if you get RT running, it should be fine... there was an early logical disk handler submitted to decus some years before we incorporated something similar in the base system. What version of RT-11 do you have to use? Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 4 months

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BDV11 - which ROMs ?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Ok, now the "panel" if you can call it that on the PDP-11/03 BA11-N has <three switches as well (restart (momentary), Halt, and Aux). I assume that <these are connected in some way to the BDV11 internally? tracking the <ribbon cable isn't easy on this chassis. No. they both interact at the bus level so that ribbon from the FP goes to the PS or backplane depending on BA11 model. So you can disable the LTC using either switch (watchout for that too.) and reset/restart using either. If you have all three cpus go with the m8186 (11/23A) as it has memory management and is faster. If the Backplane is Q22 or modified to be Q22 and the BDV11 is also modded then 4mb of ram is possible otherwise your limited to 256k (for most PDP-11 stuff that is plenty!). Allison

27 years, 4 months

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Pro-350 anyone?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Zane's earlier comment is right on. I have a 380, and it's a semi-alternat <to an 11/23 or 11/73. Although it uses the same chip as the 11/73, its bu <(CTI=Computing Terminal Interconnect) is pretty slow; I think it's an 8-bi <bus that multiplexes everything. Not correct. CTI is very nearly qbus with some simplifications. It is however 16bit. What slows them is the terminal emulation running concurrently and also the disk controllers for both the floppy and the hard disk are SLOW. Still for single user stuff they are ok. For multiuser version of Venix or Unix the serial port and a termianl is far faster! Allison

27 years, 4 months

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