- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> In a box (from Dave, IIRC) I have found (3) three RLV11 cardsets, >the printsets for same, and the printsets and drawings for the RL01 >and 02. This is kinda like going thru the pockets of an old coat >... >... I know that Zane has successfully attached RL02s to his 11/73, and >I wanna do that, too... You're fine, as long as your 11/73 has less than 248 kbytes in it. The RLV11 won't DMA any higher than 18-bits; if you've got 256kbytes or more of RAM, you want a RLV21. > The 11/73 has an RQDX2 and one RX02 8"... tell me how much more >info to provide and I'll do that. I'm going to try to install the >boards, but the little backplane is stuffed and I need to re-arrange >some things. Oh, yes, the backplane: You need two adjacent slots with the "CD" bus. Depending on what else you have, this may not be possible in a BA23. > Wait... will RLV11s go in the 11/44??? That would be major cool, >as well... No, the RLV11's won't, but a RL11 will. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

classic back ends?

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Ok, so the subject is a bit provocative, actually the question isn't that bad. Are there backends for the GCC compiler tools for the 'classic' computers out there? I'm particularly interested in a PDP-11 back end at the moment as it seems that I could easily port uC/OS II to the 11/23 and have something useful without forking over the RT11 dough. In lieu of that, if I compile programs using RT11 under Supnik's emulator can I run them on a "real" 11 legally? --Chuck

27 years, 3 months

4
4
0 0

Rebirth of IMSAI

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I doubt that any of the old stuff I have, much of which, incidentally is <older than the 21-year-old to which you referred, will run at that 10MHz It's not as old as the altair or some of the other goodies like the MDS-800 that was part of the VT100 development. What makes it significant is it's still in use! <rate, though I once used an ordinary Z-80A at 12 MHz with a BUNCH of 2147' <(that's power-hungry, basement-heating, fast, static RAM). Unfortunately, Yep, used them also, 2167s (16kx1 45ns) were available to me and they were nicer. <almost no peripherals would talk to it without half a dozen or so <wait-states. That was in a hand-wired application and not in an S-100, <where, although you can interface the processor, RAM, and ROM with just a <gate or two, the bus interface takes about a hundred. (not really, but quit <a few!) On a good day about 14 each board. <If I go the route of hand-wiring something for the S-100, I'll probably us <one of the WD1002-series bridge controllers I still have lying about. I They work well or the old ISA-8bit controllers. <About ten years ago, Someone gave me several of the XCOMP STS board pairs, <but tuned for 8" rather than 5.25" drives' data rate. I imagine they spen <a lot of time in someone's desk drawer, in order to keep the boss from <learning he'd paid for yet another item they couldn't use. Those might be <interesting to try out. They may be interesting if the caps havent died of old age. Allison

27 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

OT: Linux was Steve Gibson's NEWS of a Stunning NEW Search Engine ...

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi, I got this from Steve Gipson (author of SpinRite) and thought some of you might be interested since you're Linux fans. I haven't tried the search engine that he's talkng about so I have no idea if his claims are factual. Joe >Return-Path: <mailbot(a)grc.com> >To: <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> >From: Steve Gibson's MailBot <mailbot(a)grc.com> >Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 19:57:16 -0800 >Acct: <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> >Subject: Steve Gibson's NEWS of a Stunning NEW Search Engine ... > >Hello, > >We've all experienced the problem: > >The automated search engines (like Alta Vista) return 54,321 >items "in no particular order" (many of which are porn sites). >But the human-indexed search services (like Yahoo) often can't >find what you want because they're only able to index a small >fraction of the entire web (since they're human.) So you're left >with the uneasy (but probably accurate) sense that what you want >is out there somewhere ... but you're no closer to finding it. > >The truly amazing new solution: > >A couple of extremely bright guys at Stanford University solved >the Web Search Engine Problem once and for all, creating the last >search system you will ever need: http://google.com/ > >What's their secret? They use Linux-based web robots to explore >and index the entire Web. But then they determine the QUALITY of >each resulting link based upon the QUALITY of the OTHER sites >that link INTO that site. So, THE ONLY WAY a site can be highly >rated, under Google, is if other highly rated sites have links >pointing into it! It's brilliant. > >This simple concept works SO WELL that every single person I've >told about Google has switched permanently to using Google as >their Web search engine of choice. It really is that good! > >And of course it's free! ... so give it a shot for yourself!: > > <a href= "http://google.com" >Google</a> > >(NOTE: You received this news because you chose to receive my >notes about "Important PC Industry Happenings". If you're unhappy >about this, you may visit your personal preferences page using >the link below. I hope you've found this information useful!) > >Steve Gibson. > >________________________________________________________________ >You may easily edit your profile, or remove yourself from this >eMail system entirely, by visiting your personal page anytime: ><a href= "http://grc.com/x/ne.dll?-dhyngyd2-" >Edit Profile</a> >Please DO NOT REPLY to this message since it will only be seen >by my mailbot. If you need to contact my office for any reason, >please write to: <a href= "mailto:offices@grc.com" >eMail Us</a> >

27 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

homemade computer for fun and experience...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I have so many TTL's and LSI's and some VLSI's, CPU's of all <kinds (intel, Zilog and others), memories, different crystrals and <oscillators. Should it be single board with everything on it in <stages or do it modular via cards? Check the www.psyber.com/~tcj, there is a lot of info and back issues are available. <SRAM or DRAM? With dense srams (2 62256s is 64k!) that is an easy choice for small memories (64->128k). There are designs out ther ethat are 3.5" foot print and work well with 3.5" floppies and IDE or scsi drives. Allison

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

New arrivals to the Vintage Computer Festival Archives!

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

At 09:31 PM 4/2/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Hey, check out the new arrivals to the VCF Archives: > >* IBM 557 Alphabetic Interpreter >* Small-scale Honeywell DPS-6 mainframe > Man, that '557 looks to be in real nice shape! (externally at least) Most cool! -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

classic back ends?

by mbg＠world.std.com

>In lieu of that, if I compile programs using RT11 under Supnik's emulator >can I run them on a "real" 11 legally? I can't see that running software you developed yourself would be illegal to run on real hardware regardless of where it was built. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

first DEC machine

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi R, ---------- > From: R. Stricklin (kjaeros) <red(a)bears.org> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: first DEC machine > Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 9:25 PM > > I found it; I take it this selects the default console device. Switching > it doesn't make any difference---the result of either is the same: if you really don't have anything on the monitor, pull the switch "up" to use a terminal as a console. That's the one with the printer icon, 9600 baud 8n1. > The ultimate stop of the LED disagnostics is with positions 1 and 7 lit. If you using the enumeration from DEC (76543210) Your machine should be fine. It looks like all diagnostics is done besides of one of the options failed. > I was unable to locate a usable cable today for hooking up a serial > terminal; I'll have one of our VARs try to get one to me next week. > Anything I can try in the meanwhile? open it, and check if something look strange ;-)) And i forgot, what type of monitor you have, but it should have at least 1280x1024 at some graphics options. Sometimes you can change that to 1024x860 via a switch on the graphics option. cheers, emanuel

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

classic back ends?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Ok, so the subject is a bit provocative, actually the question isn't that bad. >Are there backends for the GCC compiler tools for the 'classic' computers >out there? I'm particularly interested in a PDP-11 back end at the moment >as it seems that I could easily port uC/OS II to the 11/23 and have >something useful without forking over the RT11 dough. The PDP-11 backend for GCC is a decade out-of-date with the rest of the changes in the compiler. Updating it ought to be straightforward, but nobody's stepped up to do it. Alternatively, you can use the PDP-11 backend with the matching version of the GCC front end, but I don't see any decade-old versions of the front end at the traditional GNU distribution sites. You also have to keep in mind that GCC doesn't come with a PDP-11 C run-time library. Not a problem if you're writing an OS from scratch and will be writing all the libraries too. Too bad you're giving up on RT-11 so quickly - there's several hundred megabytes of freely-distributable code available for it in the DECUS collections. >In lieu of that, if I compile programs using RT11 under Supnik's emulator >can I run them on a "real" 11 legally? I don't see why not - especially if you're using (for example) the free PDP-11 DECUS C compiler - as long as you anything you use the code for would come under "hobbyist". The DECUS C compiler is quite capable, and many major packages have been written in it. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

FW: Old VAX, VMS documentation going via Ebay (or landfill)...

by kyrrin＠my-dejanews.com

There's been way too much good stuff dumped in landfills already. Get in contact with this fellow directly if you want to help stop yet another load from such an ignoble fate... -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On 2 Apr 99 14:42:00 CST, in comp.os.vms you wrote: >>From: SMS(a)Provis.com >>Newsgroups: comp.os.vms >>Subject: Old VAX, VMS documentation going via Ebay (or landfill)... >>Message-ID: <199904022043.OAA00504(a)stroke.provis.com> >>Date: 2 Apr 99 14:42:00 CST >>Organization: Info-Vax<==>Comp.Os.Vms Gateway >>X-Gateway-Source-Info: Mailing List >>Lines: 11 >>Path: news1.jps.net!news-west.eli.net!newsbox.grin.net!pants.skycache.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.mathworks.com!mvb.saic.com!info-vax >>Xref: news1.jps.net comp.os.vms:1018 >> >> Just a quick notice that we're cleaning out old VAX and VMS (paper) >>documentation via Ebay. Some of these things are classics. Search for >>seller "ss1" for details. >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Steven M. Schweda (+1) 612-785-2000 ext. 16 (voice) >> Provis Corporation (+1) 612-785-2100 (facsimile) >> 5251 Program Avenue #100 sms(a)provis.com (e-mail) >> Mounds View, MN 55112-4975 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

New arrivals to the Vintage Computer Festival Archives!

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Hey, check out the new arrivals to the VCF Archives: * IBM 557 Alphabetic Interpreter * Small-scale Honeywell DPS-6 mainframe To see images, jump over to: http://www.siconic.com/newstuff/ Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99]

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

first DEC machine

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Switched the machine on, and waited. And waited. Nothing. No lights on the <keyboard, nothing on the display. The LED status whatsis at the rear <wibbled around a bit but I didn't pay close attention to what it was <doing. The disks never spun up. There is a nearly hidden switch between the leds and the MMJ connector, try both positions. Also DEC spins the drives up after the boot starts not at powerup. The monitor if there is no disks(at all) should display a countdown as it does self test. The monitor can be interacted with for diagnostic uses. Allison

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

OT: Classic bicycles?

by max82＠surfree.com

Does anybody here know of an old bicycle mailing list/message board? Does anyone here use or have old bicycles? The reason why I ask is that I found an old English bike, several decades old, and would like to know when it was produced, etc. It's certainly a lovely bike, black with gold trim, in perfect condition after I washed off the dust. My two functional questions: 1) Can I use WD-40 on non-moving parts to keep them from rusting? 2) The thing has one of those 3-speed in-hub gear shifters but the cable and handle are missing. Therefore, the little chain is retracted into the hub. Is it in 1st speed or 3rd speed? Does anyone have any extra 3-speed switch handles :) --Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com)

27 years, 3 months

3
3
0 0

Sickening Documentation

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Merle K. Peirce <at258(a)osfn.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, 3 April 1999 11:18 Subject: Re: Sickening Documentation >Hmmm...non compos mentis, isn't it? You may be right, it's been a while. Mentis sounds better now that I think about it.. Cheers Geoff

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

off-the-wall question (possibly OT)

by fauradon＠pclink.com

I thought the Robot sounded more like "Danger Will Robinson" or something like that. >Has anybody here ever heard a relay machine running, like one >of the early Zuse machines or the Harvard Mark-1? It occurred >to me (please don't ridicule me too much for this*) that the >sound of the robot in the old "Lost in Space" TV series may >have been intended to sound like a relay machine. I've heard >descriptions of them sounding like a thousand women knitting, >which could sort-of describe that robot sound-effect as well... > > Cheers, > Bill. > >* I guess you should ridicule me just the right amount. :-) >

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Sickening Documentation

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

-----Original Message----- From: Derek Peschel <dpeschel(a)u.washington.edu> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, 3 April 1999 7:21 Subject: Re: Sickening Documentation >Well, "decus" is a Latin word. (I forget what it means -- it's part of a >motto, "decus et tutamen". One translation could be "an ornament and a >safeguard", though I thought "an ARMAMENT and a shield" was the translation.) >So there's an angle that would encourage keeping the old name. Compus is also latin. IIRC, it means "sound" in the the sense "non compus mentus" (literally, "not of sound mind") Cheers Geoff Roberts

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

HP21MX 12531C?

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

I have two HP 12531C interface cards, one known bad the other unknown. I'd like to test them out, but I need some info on jumper settings, etc.... Would anyone happen to have docs on the 12531C? Jay

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

sinclair computer kits

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

Does anyone know if the timex sinclair computers were ever sold in kit form by other companies? Long ago I purchased a MicroAce computer kit, and it sure looks like a timex sinclair 1000 (or probably an earlier model). This was sold by a company in Santa Ana, California. -Lawrence LeMay

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

decitek reader

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

Does anyone have any docs on the decitek paper tape reader? Full docs would be fantastic, but initially just two items: 1) The unit appears to be set for 220v. Is there some simple strappings to change it to 110V? 2) I have no power cable for the unit, and it uses a (to me anyways) rather unique power cable. Any ideas where I might find a power cable (Digikey, etc?)? Thanks in advance! Jay West

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Nicolett NPC-764 CP/M machine & logic analyzer.

by jlewczyk＠his.com

I have an old Nicolett NPC-764, which is CP/M machine (8085 based) with built in Logic Analyzer hardware (its main function). The logic analyzer software was stored in 48K of ROM, and you could boot CP/M from there. Its a "luggable" computer (which means that they put a handle on it and bolted down all the boards ;-). One thing I do not have is any 5 1/4" floppy disks for it. Because of this, I can't boot CP/M and I don't have any of the software that came with the unit that assist in using some of the logic analyzer's abilities. Do have any idea on how I could get some of this software? Nicolet hasn't been any help. Thanks! - John Lewczyk - IO Consulting - 401 Queens Row Street - Herndon, Virginia 20170-3131 - jlewczyk(a)his.com

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Kits vs ready-made (was RE: Rebirth of IMSAI)

by edick＠idcomm.com

I take extra care with my prototypes because they not only prove the concept, but they have to serve as a development tool. In reality, wire-wrapped circuits are more likely to survive mishandling than a PCB would be. Whereas you could break a pin or a wire, that's normally quite apparent to visual inspection. I've got a whole paper-box full of perfect-looking PCB's which don't work because of some intermittent open or short due to an overetched or overstressed circuit board. Where space was a problem, I've been known (rarely) to ship prototypes which were hand-wired with point-to-point soldered #30 wire. This is much like wire-wrap, except it require much greater care to cut the wires to just the right length and strip just the right amount of insulation. It makes for plenty of wasted wire. BTW, TechAmerica now sells sheets of 0.100" matrix wire-wrap card with low-impeance ground/Vcc plane on top/bottom, similar to what I used to build into my wire-wrap boards. This is really handy, because you can isolate one section of ground plane from another with a Dremel tool and connect them with a bypassed ferrite bead or low-value resistor. This makes for realtively quite regions if you take sufficient pains. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 11:23 AM Subject: Re: Kits vs ready-made (was RE: Rebirth of IMSAI) >> >> This strategy is pretty popular with analog work being tried for the first >> time. I prefer to wire-wrap my digital stuff, and I've shown that wire-wrap > >Yes, dead bugging takes far too long for most digital stuff. I still >think you need a groundplane for anything with dfast edges (which means >just about anything using modern chips). > >> between digital and analog circuitry can be mde to work as well. I prefer > >I've been known to screw a piece of copperclad as a 'dead bug' >groundplane to the edge of a board containing wire-wrapped circuitry. It >might not look all that neat, but it's solid, and it works. > >> my prototypes to be really rugged unless there's a specific reason why one >> can't be, and I'm always afraid to play with those "spiderweb-technology" >> circuits, so once built, they never get any improvement from me. > >There is rarely any excuse for sloppy construction, even in prototypes. > >> >> Now, I've learned a few tricks from those analog weenies who use this kind >> of stuff all the time. I'll certainly never forget watching one guy track >> down a 4MHz clock from a processor getting into the analog section of his >> circuit by using a divider with points sharp enough to penetrate the solder >> mask and a spectrum analyzer. He found the section of ground plane which >> needed bypass, then fixed it with a couple of capacitors bypassing the >> unwanted signal to just the right place. No mean trick if you ask me. > >Another trick worth knowing is that sometimes cutting a slot in the >groundplane can isolate a noise source (like that processor) from the >sensitive input circuitry. You want to prevent digital ground currents >from getting anywhere near the analogue side. The impedance of a >groundplane can cause problems. > >-tony >

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

first DEC machine

by red＠bears.org

Howdy; Several years ago while I was at UW I promised myself that one day I'd get a VAX and learn how to use VMS. That day came yesterday, when a VAXstation 3100m76 showed up on my doorstep. So in the immortal words of Zane, "I can't get it to boot." (: I realise I may be making an entirely faulty set of assumptions about what I'm doing so here's where I'm at. I received also an LK201 keyboard, the wondrous "hockey puck" mouse, and the video cable (15 pin D-sub on one end, 3 BNC plus what look to be keyboard and mouse connectors). The machine supposedly has SPX graphics. I connected the video cable to the appropriate port on the rear of the VAX, and plugged the keyboard and mouse into the connectors on the cable, and the 3 BNC to a NEC 5fge, which supports composite sync-on-green and I'm fairly sure should sync up to whatever the VAX puts out. Switched the machine on, and waited. And waited. Nothing. No lights on the keyboard, nothing on the display. The LED status whatsis at the rear wibbled around a bit but I didn't pay close attention to what it was doing. The disks never spun up. I tried again with the keyboard and mouse plugged into the connectors on the back of the machine, and got keyboard lights, but aside from that had the same luck as before. What should I be looking at first? I'll try to borrow from work a cable I can use to connect a serial terminal to the box to see if anything useful happens then. ok r.

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Sickening Documentation

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I don't mind the "Compaq" where the "digital" used to be, it's the >"Compaq OpenVMS" I find sick! How egotistical! What about DECUS?... I received my booklet announcing the next DECUS, and it says 'DECUS, A Compaq Users Group'. ugh. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 3 months

7
6
0 0

first DEC machine

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi r, Tell us the signature of the LED's. Probably, something is wrong with your motherboard, memory, graphics ... Another idea is to plug in a terminal in the printer port. probably you get a message there.And don't forget to put the little switch "up" that is left to the 8 LEDs. If it is already "up" you have the terminal as the console already, so you don't get anything on the Monitor. You told that you have a Lk201 ? Which of the LEDs are on ? (they displaying some errors from the box too) hope it helps, cheers, emanuel ---------- > From: R. Stricklin (kjaeros) <red(a)bears.org> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: first DEC machine > Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 2:22 PM > > > Howdy; > > Several years ago while I was at UW I promised myself that one day I'd get > a VAX and learn how to use VMS. That day came yesterday, when a VAXstation > 3100m76 showed up on my doorstep. BTW, the name for my is "godot" simply because I waited so long ... > I received also an LK201 keyboard, the wondrous "hockey puck" mouse, and > the video cable (15 pin D-sub on one end, 3 BNC plus what look to be > keyboard and mouse connectors). The machine supposedly has SPX graphics. nice !!! > Switched the machine on, and waited. And waited. Nothing. No lights on the > keyboard, nothing on the display. The LED status whatsis at the rear > wibbled around a bit but I didn't pay close attention to what it was > doing. That's bad .. > The disks never spun up. Usually they spin up, IF the system tries to boot from them, or you execute a "show config" > I tried again with the keyboard and mouse plugged into the connectors on > the back of the machine, and got keyboard lights, but aside from that had > the same luck as before. which lights ?

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Real Hackers, tools of the trade (was Re: Vector Graphic range...)

by danburrows＠mindspring.com

> >A tip I saw in a magazine a few weeks back (and haven't tried) for >sharpening dull reamers was to run a carbide-tipped lathe tool (about >\pounds 5.00 if you don't have one) along the flutes of the reamer (up >under the flutes I guess). Apparently, this will put the edge back on. Someday I will have to try that. > >Were you saying that Xcellite used to do them in the 99 range? They're >now listing tamperproof Torx in a couple of sizes. > I have gotten rather frustrated with Xcellite over the last 10+ years because they are so slow to come out with new stuff. All of my tamperproof bits are other MFG. Dan

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Real Hackers, tools of the trade (was Re: Vector Graphic range...)

by danburrows＠mindspring.com

>> In the toolbox that I use every day I think there is every 99 series tool >> that is avail. There are also some that they don't make anymore. Also you > >What has been discontinued? I remember seeing a stubby handle once. And >magnetic nutdrivers (although the magnetic 1/4" one is in the 99MP kit). >Anything else? There were 2 sizes of reamers and only one now is the primary one that comes to mind. The one I use the most is the one they discontinued - of course since mine is dull. >>'Tamperproof' Torx drivers are almost essential if you work on SMPSUs >(many manufacturers seem to like them). I've got all sorts of strange >drivers (Torq, Tri-wing, etc), but I've never seen them in computer >equipment. Tamperproof allen and brain fade due to lack of sleep lately. Dan

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

LT33?

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

I'm looking at the required hardware listed on a SPD I got today, and it lists a "LT33 terminal with low speed paper tape reader". Is that the same thing as a ASR33? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

27 years, 3 months

4
4
0 0

Kits vs ready-made (was RE: Rebirth of IMSAI)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<What I do if I can stand the stray capacitance (and I often can) is take <a piece of copperclad for the groundplane. I then stick (double-sided <tape is strong enough) little 'islands' of stripboard, track side up onto <the groundplane. Solder the ICs to the stripboard. Then solder the ground <wires from the strips to the groundplane (as short as possible). That <will anchor the stripboard in place. Decoupling caps go from the power <strip straight to the groundplane, etc. That happens to be an effective way to do it. Works well for RF too. As to proto, I have a few peices of equipment that were deliberately built that way with over 15years on them. With a little care it can be very rugged. Allison

27 years, 3 months

2
3
0 0

Real Hackers, tools of the trade (was Re: Vector Graphic range...)

by danburrows＠mindspring.com

>An expensive set, but WELL worth the money! Of course my set is actually >made up of two or three smaller sets. Xcellite are tops in my book! Of >course I'd rather have the set the size of a small suitcase! I have found that the 99MP is good as a starting base and then add the rest. In the toolbox that I use every day I think there is every 99 series tool that is avail. There are also some that they don't make anymore. Also you need to check out the security bit sets that Jensen offers. They have the most complete set I have found. Dan

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Sickening Documentation (OT)

by mbg＠world.std.com

>>I doubt the RT-11 also > >The RT-11 5.7 SPD has been out for over half a year now, and begins: > >* COMPAQ >* >*Software >*Product >*Description Oh... "Never mind." Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

New uses for old toys!

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

My boss has come up with a good use for all my old toys! We're an ISP here, and I play BOFH. So, we're moving to a new building, and all the customers are wanting to see our internet toys when they sign up. So, the new machine room is being constructed as follows: 1. It'a a large room, raised flooring, and it has an observation window. The idiots can look thru the window, but not come in the door. 2. The room is also decently air-conditioned. It'll (obviously!) have fast 'net access. Meaning: 3. We aim to get our hands on all the boxes we can with flashing lights or interesting buttons on the panels. These will be visible from the window. All the real gear will be on the other side of the room. Basically, this means all my boxen get a fast 'net wire, and a nice room to live in. All they need to be able to do is look complicated and/or impressive. Is this sort of thing legal? Sounds too good to be true to me... -------

27 years, 3 months

2
2
0 0

Collectors list

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi Bill, ---------- > From: Bill Yakowenko <yakowenk(a)cs.unc.edu> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Collectors list > Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 12:17 AM > > I guess I'm not advertising enough! Would anybody object if I > posted this announcement periodically, like maybe once every two > weeks, or once per month? YOU SHOULD, If you simply mail a pointer to it, should be enugh. > The "Classic Computer Rescue Squad" web page lists people's location, > classic computer interests, and contact info. If you aren't on it, > you are missing out. And if you want to find nearby classic computer > geeks, this is the obvious spot for one-stop-shopping. I thought about, why i haven't found this before. Sorry, no offense, but "its the name". ( seeing the "RESCUE" i saw already one of this SAR helicopters around my head ;-)) I just was on your site, and this is probably exactly what i tried to do. I would only suggest, to put the "collector" somewhere in the name. thanks a lot for your work, emanuel

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

H740 Bridge Rectifier

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Hi Allison: I have the schematic in front of me, mechanical drawing too. It's on my web site if you _really_ need it after this, or send me your fax number and I'll get it to you that way. Looking at the mechanical drawing, if you look at the rear of the 8/f, with the H740 installed, the bridge rectifier is at the top, right hand side of the supply, above the large heat sink fins, to the right of two large transistors. Ascii art for pin orientation: (top edge of board, as you face component side with H740 installed) --------- | + AC| (Large Trans) (Large Trans) | | |AC -| --------- ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- (Heat Sink Fins) ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- (Large Trans) (Large Trans) (Large Trans) (Round connector) (bottom edge of board) The rectifier is labelled only "NSS3514", no ratings indicated in the specs, just "bridge rectifier". Input is 28VAC. Good luck, Kevin --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Help finding software for Nicolet NPC-764 logic analyzer (8085 CP/M)

by jlewczyk＠his.com

I recently obtained an old Nicolett NPC-764, which is a CP/M machine (8085 based) with a built in Logic Analyzer, with software for the logic analyzer built into ROM. Its a "luggable" computer (which means that they put a handle on it and bolted down all the boards ;-). One thing I do not have is any 5 1/4" floppy disks for it. Therefore I can't boot CP/M and I don't have any of the software that came with the unit to assist in using the logic analyzer. Do have any idea on how I could get some of this software? Nicolet hasn't been any help. Thanks!

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Looking for 8008 language software (PL/M, MASM, BASIC,...)

by jlewczyk＠his.com

Hi. I'm new to the list and this is my first posting. I am looking for PL/M cross compiler that Intel produced for the 8008 CPU. I have the Intel manual, but no source or object for the language compiler, which was written in Fortran by Gary Kildall when he worked for Intel back in ~1973. I have source for an 8080 version of PL/M from Intel which went into the public domain at some time, but I do not believe that it will produce 8008 code (that ability is not mentioned in the documentation). Any help or information on this would be appreciated. Also, a macro assembler or a basic interpreter would also be appreciated! Anything would be better than hand assembling and jamming in bytes via switches. Thanks, John - John Lewczyk - IO Consulting - 401 Queens Row Street - Herndon, Virginia 20170-3131 - jlewczyk(a)his.com

27 years, 3 months

2
2
0 0

Kits vs ready-made (was RE: Rebirth of IMSAI)

by edick＠idcomm.com

This strategy is pretty popular with analog work being tried for the first time. I prefer to wire-wrap my digital stuff, and I've shown that wire-wrap between digital and analog circuitry can be mde to work as well. I prefer my prototypes to be really rugged unless there's a specific reason why one can't be, and I'm always afraid to play with those "spiderweb-technology" circuits, so once built, they never get any improvement from me. Now, I've learned a few tricks from those analog weenies who use this kind of stuff all the time. I'll certainly never forget watching one guy track down a 4MHz clock from a processor getting into the analog section of his circuit by using a divider with points sharp enough to penetrate the solder mask and a spectrum analyzer. He found the section of ground plane which needed bypass, then fixed it with a couple of capacitors bypassing the unwanted signal to just the right place. No mean trick if you ask me. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 7:24 PM Subject: Re: Kits vs ready-made (was RE: Rebirth of IMSAI) ><What I do if I can stand the stray capacitance (and I often can) is take ><a piece of copperclad for the groundplane. I then stick (double-sided ><tape is strong enough) little 'islands' of stripboard, track side up onto ><the groundplane. Solder the ICs to the stripboard. Then solder the ground ><wires from the strips to the groundplane (as short as possible). That ><will anchor the stripboard in place. Decoupling caps go from the power ><strip straight to the groundplane, etc. > >That happens to be an effective way to do it. Works well for RF too. > >As to proto, I have a few peices of equipment that were deliberately built >that way with over 15 years on them. With a little care it can be very >rugged. > >Allison >

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Vector Graphic range...

by fauradon＠pclink.com

Is the Vector3 also an S100 machine? If so: WOW I have an S100 machine and didn't know about it! There is a small picture of it at the Sanctuary site in the Miscelaneous part of the museum. Francois --------------------------------- Visit the oh so neglected sanctuary at: www.pclink.com/fauradon >Vector Graphic made a range of machines starting with the Vector I. I am not >familiar with all of them, but I believe they were all S-100 machines. The >machines I have are the Vector 1, 3, 4, and MZ. I am not familiar at all >with the Vector Graphic B; I would pick it up just out of curiousity. All of >the machines I have run CP/M. Are you talking about the UCSD P-System? If >so, I didn't think that was an operating system, but rather something more >like an interpreter. >

27 years, 3 months

9
13
0 0

Sickening Documentation

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I got the Base Set of OpenVMS 7.2 doc's that I ordered today. How >disgusting! On the spine, it says "Compaq OpenVMS", and the spines are ALL >white, so they aren't colour coded by type. The "traditional" DEC way of dealing with this is to have pockets on all the spines and put cardboard identifiers in each one indicating which volume it is. If you go to a well-stocked office supply store, you'll find similar sized pockets that are self adhesive and which you can stick to the spines of your new manuals, and them label everything appropriately. All the way back to white, eh? My old TOPS-20 manual set (from mid-to- late-70's) is in white binders... >I don't mind the "Compaq" where the "digital" used to be, it's the "Compaq >OpenVMS" I find sick! How egotistical! Within a day or two of the announced merger, all the faxes I got from DEC began reading "Compaq" at the top! >Oh, well, I've got doc's that match the version I'm running now at least >(though the V5 "System Managers Manual" will continue to be the most used >manual). Now if the two Cluster manuals that I ordered at the same time >would ship, I'd be almost happy. Still need up-to-date DECnet manuals >though. Incidentally, there are several places on the net where the OpenVMS documentation is browsable. For starters, you can go to http://www.openvms.digital.com/ and click on "Documentation". It looks like the Cluster manuals and DECnet manuals are there. Of course, electronic docs are not nearly as satisfying as a "grey wall" (or, as it seems to be now, white), but it can come in handy in a pinch. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Collectors list

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

I guess I'm not advertising enough! Would anybody object if I posted this announcement periodically, like maybe once every two weeks, or once per month? The "Classic Computer Rescue Squad" web page lists people's location, classic computer interests, and contact info. If you aren't on it, you are missing out. And if you want to find nearby classic computer geeks, this is the obvious spot for one-stop-shopping. E-mail addresses on it are mangled to make it more difficult for spammers (though I have an idea for a better anti-spam measure), and pretty much all the decisions about what info to list are made by the Rescue Squad volunteers themselves. I've even been pretty good about maintaining it. Requests usually get handled in less than 24 hours. Here's the URL: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/ccrs_list.html Be there, or be a rectangle in which each side is one fourth of the total perimiter. Bill. On Wed, 31 Mar 1999, Sellam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> wrote: ] ] On Wed, 31 Mar 1999, Jerome Fine wrote: ] > So, if you are willing to give your zip/postal code, in effect that is ... deletia ... ] ] I think the rescue list on Bill Yakowenko's site (don't have the URL ] handy) can serve the purpose of knowing where generally other fellow ] collectors are located. Aside from privacy concerns, its a swell idea. ] But I guess it would be on a voluntary basis. ] ... more ...

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Osborne PSU

by a2k＠one.net

Hello, I recently aquired an Osbourne Model I luggable.. I have system disks for it and I can't wait to fire it up.. unfortunately it has a bad power switch (a little flaky; works occasionally, usually not), which is not big deal as I can change that out.. the problem is when I was working on the panel that has the wires attached (wrapped around those posts) I accidentally ripped them all off (grr).. does anyone have a pinout of which colored wires go to which pin? thanks, Kevin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After sifting through the overwritten remaining blocks of Luke's home directory, Luke and PDP-1 sped away from /u/lars, across the surface of the Winchester riding Luke's flying read/write head. PDP-1 had Luke stop at the edge of the cylinder overlooking /usr/spool/uucp. "Unix-to-Unix Copy Program;" said PDP-1. "You will never find a more wretched hive of bugs and flamers. We must be cautious." -- DECWARS ____________________________________________________________________ | Kevin Stewart | "I am a secret | | KC8BLL ----------| Wrapped in a mystery -Milford High School | | a2k(a)one.net | Wrapped in an enigma Drama Tech Dept. | |jlennon(a)nether.net| And drizzled in some tasty chocolate stuff.| --------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

DEC cables

by kees.stravers＠iae.nl

>I have some DEC cables that I peicked up. Does anyone know what they're for? >Marked "BC-022D-10" also "82351-000" DB-25F on both ends estimate 10 >foot long >Marked "BC22D-50" also "71065" DB-25F on both ends, estimate 50 foot long >Marked "BC22D-25" also "71065" DB-25F on both ends, estimate 25 foot >long,NIB >Thanks, > Joe BC22D is a RS-232 null-modem cable, used to connect terminals to RS232 terminal ports on a VAX or PDP. See the DEC cables page at: <http://www.digital.co.uk/info_uk/Tech/cables.htm> <http://www.vaxarchive.org/hw/cables.html> Kees -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers(a)iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ I'm Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - Visit VAXarchive! http://www.vaxarchive.org/ (primary) http://www.sevensages.org/vax/ (mirror) http://www.coyote.org/mirrors/vaxarchive/ (mirror)

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Terak software

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 12:40 AM 4/2/99 -0800, Sell 'em @ eBay wrote: >On Thu, 1 Apr 1999, John Foust wrote: > >> port, where I capture it using the venerable Pro-YAM telecom package. >> (Now there's a guy who belongs on this list <http://www.omen.com/>.) > >Ah, Chuck Forsberg, a.k.a. TeleGodzilla? Yup. He's the one. Quite the god of telecom, judging by the level of detail in his manuals, and the power and reliability of Pro-YAM. My POTS dial-up has diminished ever since I got a T-1, but Pro-YAM's certainly one of the oldest yet original programs I've got on my PC. The other is Brief. Well, actually, BEEP.COM, SQ.COM, USQ.COM, BOLD.COM and SWEEP.EXE are still on my path, and they date to first-quarter '84. - John

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Rescuer's list vs Collector's list was Re: Collectors

by lwalker＠mail.interlog.com

On 2 Apr 99 at 10:27, Joe wrote: > At 02:17 AM 4/2/99 -0500, you wrote: > >I guess I'm not advertising enough! Would anybody object if I > >posted this announcement periodically, like maybe once every two > >weeks, or once per month? > > Hi Bill, > > Do it! But I don't think the collector's list is intended to be a > rescuer's list, just a list of people with old computer interests so that we > can locate others with similar interest that are nearby. > > Joe > > Exactly. Those on the collectors list would not necessarily be willing to go to extent of arranging transport etc. For example, altho I have done rescues of old equipment, I don't even have a vehicle to do so and as with most of us very limited and rapidly dwindling storage space. It just makes it easier to find collectors in your locale who might have similiar interests. It's a good start but please keep the names coming. Only those collectors who wish to be included on the list and who send the data will be listed. ciao larry lwalker(a)interlog.com Collectors info http://members.xoom.com/T3C

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

PAGING: Joe Rigdon, Mike McManus

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

(Posted to the list, CC: to both recipient's E-addys) Will Joe Rigdon and Mike McManus please get in contact with me regarding their participation in the Teledisk group buy? Joe, I've seen your posts to the list so I know you're still around. However, you've not responded as yet to ANY of the E-mails I've sent you. Mike, I've just not gotten any responses from you at all. Please contact me ASAP. Thanks to you both. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

off-the-wall question (possibly OT)

by edick＠idcomm.com

Not quite . . . those stepping relays had quite a bit more energy as they had to move something more massive than the little relay contacts. It's more like what the room full of stepping relays sounded like from down the hall. You were only barely aware of it, but you were immediately aware of a change in the pattern. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 7:32 AM Subject: Re: off-the-wall question (possibly OT) >Bill, > > I've never heard a relay machine in operation but I've heard lots of >telephone co switch rooms with the old stepping relays in opertation. I >imagine the sound must be similar. > > Joe > >At 02:27 AM 4/2/99 -0500, you wrote: >>Has anybody here ever heard a relay machine running, like one >>of the early Zuse machines or the Harvard Mark-1? It occurred >>to me (please don't ridicule me too much for this*) that the >>sound of the robot in the old "Lost in Space" TV series may >>have been intended to sound like a relay machine. I've heard >>descriptions of them sounding like a thousand women knitting, >>which could sort-of describe that robot sound-effect as well... >> >> Cheers, >> Bill. >> >>* I guess you should ridicule me just the right amount. :-) >> >> >

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Sickening Documentation (OT)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> *Compaq recommends that all other customers purchase Compaq's In- >> *stallation Services. These services provide for installation of the >> *software product by an experienced Compaq Software Specialist. > >> If you want to see how much a "Compaq Software Specialist" knows about >> the PDP-11 OS's, just look at some recent postings to vmsnet.pdp-11 where >> a Compaq employee is trying to ask how to run BRU under RSX-11. >Hell, my office didn't know how to install and sysgen RT11 in 1986. For quite some time, when DEC decides that they fired/laid off/re-assigned the personnel that knew how to do the job, they've been going to outside sources (such as Mentec), and these outside sources often been hiring outside consultants. The markup after going through this chain of "resellers" is truly amazing; in some cases the customer has ended up paying $10K just for installation of a RSX11M+-with-TCPIP upgrade, for example. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Sickening Documentation (OT)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>>we'll see manuals labeled "Compaq RT-11" or Compaq VMS"). >I doubt the RT-11 also The RT-11 5.7 SPD has been out for over half a year now, and begins: * COMPAQ * *Software *Product *Description * *___________________________________________________________________ * *PRODUCT NAME: RT-11, Version 5.7 SPD 12.01.41 * (Single-User Operating System) * *DESCRIPTION * *RT-11 is a software product of Mentec, Inc. and is licensed under Com- *paq Computer Corporation's Standard Terms and Conditions. If you browse down a bit further, you see: *This very fast, multi-volume backup/restore facility supports the stream- *ing capabilities of Compaq's TK25, TSV05, TSU05, TK50, TU80, and TU81+ *tape drives. And to top it all off: *Compaq recommends that all other customers purchase Compaq's In- *stallation Services. These services provide for installation of the *software product by an experienced Compaq Software Specialist. If you want to see how much a "Compaq Software Specialist" knows about the PDP-11 OS's, just look at some recent postings to vmsnet.pdp-11 where a Compaq employee is trying to ask how to run BRU under RSX-11. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 3 months

2
1
0 0

Sickening Documentation

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Farzino, just about everything OpenVMS runs on Linux runs on. (I doubt >we'll see manuals labeled "Compaq RT-11" or Compaq VMS"). As for RT-11, you're right... because it is handled by Mentec now. But for VMS... don't be so sure... At work yesterday I saw a box of VMS manuals which was being distributed to the VMS support group... they clearly had "Compaq OpenVMS" on them... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

off-the-wall question (possibly OT)

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Has anybody here ever heard a relay machine running, like one of the early Zuse machines or the Harvard Mark-1? It occurred to me (please don't ridicule me too much for this*) that the sound of the robot in the old "Lost in Space" TV series may have been intended to sound like a relay machine. I've heard descriptions of them sounding like a thousand women knitting, which could sort-of describe that robot sound-effect as well... Cheers, Bill. * I guess you should ridicule me just the right amount. :-)

27 years, 3 months

3
2
0 0

Timonium Hamfest

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 3/31/99 8:42:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, rigdonj(a)intellistar.net writes: > That's exactly right. A lot of the vendors have sold their stuff and > left by 1:30. That why you found piles of trash that they'd left. I > usually register as a vendor and pay the extra fee just so I can get in > ahead of the public. I can tell you for a fact that the BEST deals happen > long before the public gets in the door. If I couldn't get there before > 1:30 I would bother going even if it was across the street! agreed. there's a hamfest thats coming up in two weeks here and a friend and i are going as vendors with a small cache of junk to sell. the best deals can be found the night before when everyone is still setting up. still havent gotten over being 30 seconds too late buying a small robot...

27 years, 3 months

5
5
0 0

2026

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

test-drb