- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

Woohoo! I got my vs3100 running with the hobbiest CD! Installed it on the big hard disk too! Now I just have to find where I printed out the licence before my PC ate itself. -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? -----------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 1 month

8
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Bringing up a CPM

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> The first sector DOES NOT HAVE TO BE THE BOOT. < <Hi < It does on my system unless I toggle in a loader or have <EPROMs to do it. I'd like to not have any EPROMs if I don't <need it. The controller automatically loads track 0 sector 1. <I start executing at address zero and it boot loads the <CPM system. The boot loader then jumps to the start of <the CPM and it over writes info at address zero with what <it requires there. As far as I know, I am following the examples That is an example of the MDS800 style of boot. It is also fairly atypical of many. <for a non-MDS800 type system and following exactly what is <shown on 6-14/6-15 of the CPM manual that I got from the <unofficial site. The mapping shows that the first sector <is a cold start loader and the CPM ( CCP ) part doesn't start until <the second sector. Yes that config is specific to the MDS800 and that boot will likely NOT work with any controller in a IMSAI. If the controller in the imsai is the one I think it is (has an 8080 and an d372 FDC), the bios is simplified as that one does a lot of the work. I've built enough CPM system to have the configuration guide memorized. However I stopped going by the book as it's actually a bit to terse and does leave one to much imagination. The book by Andy Johnson-Laird The Programmers CPM Hand book is a must have for anyone doing bios work. Allison

27 years, 1 month

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What's a "computer console" selectric called?

by amichael＠nortelnetworks.com

I'm not sure if it's the same kind of Selectric terminal, but about 20 years ago when I was trying to find an alternative to a Teletype to connect to my homebrew S-100 system, I acquired a used Selectric with a set of solenoids built inside its base to activate the printing mechanism. Maybe this is the model you remember. IBM had to make the base deeper to accommodate the extra actuating solenoids, so unless you placed the Selectric into a cutout or well it would sit too high above the desk for comfortable working. You'd energize solenoids in various zany combinations to tilt the type-ball correctly for each character. Electrical interface was through a 50-pin rectangular AMP connector at the rear, and I believe the solenoids needed 48 vdc. It weighed a ton. Actually, the biggest challenge in interfacing this thing to a computer was to sort out how to read one particular status signal from one of the microswitch contacts in the print mechanism, so your computer could start sending the next character at just the right moment before the mechanical cycle completely finished. Else your software had to pause a few milliseconds between characters, but there was a hidden menace awaiting if you took this easy way and just timed out for each character to finish. The starting-and-stopping would soon wear out the clutch mechanism. With the high duty cycle of computer printing (rather than manual typing) you would eventually put too much strain on the mechanism and wear it out if you didn't poll to respond to that "ready" signal. Many people don't realize the Selectrics were *completely* mechanical. No electronics, just complex and elegant mechanics. A nightmare :-) I gave mine away years ago. If I recall correctly it was a "Model 735 i/o Selectric". Maybe that name will help you track one down. I bought mine surplus from an outfit in England back in '77, but there were companies selling similar models in the USA too. They ran magazine ads in the early years of Byte and Kilobaud. There were some articles in Radio-Electronics (of Mark-8 computer project fame) describing a Selectric interface. Arlen > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Oliver [SMTP:go@ao.com] > Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 4:35 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? > > Back in the days before "glass" consoles, computers often (if > they had them) used typewriter devices as console input and > output stations. Many minicomputers used Teletypes, but Control > Data used (believe it or not) IBM Selectric typewriters. > <snip> -- Arlen Michaels amichael(a)nortelnetworks.com

27 years, 1 month

2
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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > Yes, but have you seen the price of IDC DD50 plugs? Last time I needed > some, the standard 'Amphenol' 50 pin plugs (like overgrown Centronics > plugs) were a couple of pounds a time, but the DD50s were \pounds 17.00 > or so... Ouch! I've paid US$11.00 or so each (at Halted, in 1993), and didn't grumble too much because at that price it still beat the hassle of splitting a 50-wire flat cable to make it fit a solder-tail connector. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 1 month

2
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Yet another freebie

by af-list＠lafleur.wfi-inc.com

More junk in the spring-cleaning frenzy here, to a good home: A Wyse50/350 keyboard, P/N: 840059-01 Aaron

27 years, 1 month

1
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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by edick＠idcomm.com

IDC termination s for a 3-row connector are mechanically problematic. They're probably needlessly/intolerably fragile. Fortunately, external ribbon cables are no longer tolerated here in the U.S. They have been replaced with Pacific-rim-manufactured shielded cables which work quite admirably and which can be built into the DD50 with just as much integrity as the 2-row connectors. Those guys on the SCSI-II committee must have been software weenies, having picked the teensy and fragile high-density cable connectors they chose. I'd say they're every bit as likely to break as the microscopic things used in the "SCSI-III" connectors which look like the ones used on several of my PCMCIA cards. Fortunately, I'm too cheap to buy these most modern and extremely expensive connectors. I've got about two dozen of the old "Blue-Ribbon" (used in office phone systems) connector-fitted cables most of which I've had for years, used to tow the car, etc, and I've never had reason to cuss them. I have seven of the "SCSI-II" connectors on five cables, of which all but one are adapters. Only one of the adapters works right, i.e. their strain relief actually relieves strain, as opposed to pulling out. Of course, with them, I always know which end has the problem. I've not used the one with the little connector at both ends. I doubt I could fix it if it broke, which it surely will . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 5:37 PM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) >> >> It's odd that SUN, then, having declared the SCSI on the skids, would have >> been the ONE with the most sensible and least fragile connector on their >> external cable harnesses. If I had $1 for every time I've had a problem >> with external SCSI cable connectors, I could retire in luxury. I've NEVER >> had trouble with the D-types, in this case, the DD-50, breaking off >> contacts, etc. > >Yes, but have you seen the price of IDC DD50 plugs? Last time I needed >some, the standard 'Amphenol' 50 pin plugs (like overgrown Centronics >plugs) were a couple of pounds a time, but the DD50s were \pounds 17.00 >or so... > >I must admit they're (DD50s) a much nicer connector, though. > >-tony >

27 years, 1 month

2
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Bringing up a CPM

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> Still that doesn't explain the 7680 bytes in the file from >the site. I still don't know what to do. Well, 7680 bytes = 60 128-byte sectors, which is more than the first two tracks on an 8" floppy. I suspect that the "file on the site" is from an implementation where the boot track was double density or on something other than an 8" floppy. (30 256-byte sectors, 15 per track, maybe? Sounds like a 5.25" DD format.) According to my DR "CP/M 2 Alteration Guide", track 0 sector 1 is the cold start loader (bootstrap). Track 0 Sectors 2-17 are the CCP. Track 0 Sectors 18-26 and Track 1 Sectors 1-19 are the BDOS. And Track 1 Sectors 20-26 are the BIOS. This is for a plain-vanilla 8" SSSD installation, of course. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 1 month

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"default" DHV11 CSR?

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Does anyone know the "default" CSR for the first DHV-11? (8x serial mux) >I'm trying to get one recognized in my uVax III with NetBSD and it's not >seeing it. There is no one set CSR assigned to the first DHV11... it depends on what else is in your system. The lowest address a DHV can be configured for is 17760020. Subsequent ones increase by 20(8). The vector also depends on what else is in the system. Since the uVaxIII has the config command, you might want to try using that, and enter all the devices on your system, and it will provide you with what the correct configuration should be according to the configuration rules. Just for the heck of it, I checked the RT-11 SYSGEN procedure to see what it uses for a default for the first DH-type interface, and that is 17760440. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 1 month

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MVax II FOR FREE

by kees.stravers＠iae.nl

I am only relaying this message, please contact the poster. On 1999-05-27 bfarnam(a)skantech.net said: bf>I have an old MVax II (630QE Rack Cab, (2) RA-90, (1) TK-50, (1) bf>TS-05) that I need to move this weekend. I would like to find bf>someone who can put this hardware to good use, because come Tuesday, bf>it gets trashed. Do you know of anyone who would pick it up. It is bf>located in Greenville, North Carolina and I have UNLIMITED Licenses bf>for OpenVMS and DECNet in MY name that I will sign over. If bf>interested, or know someone that is, they can reach me via pager bf>during the day, as I don't check my e-mail that often at 888.511. bf>8830 or in the evening at 252.974.0162 bf>I thank you in advance for you time, bf>Brett A. Farnam bf>Washington, North Carolina -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers(a)iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ I'm Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - Visit VAXarchive! http://www.vaxarchive.org/ (primary) http://www.sevensages.org/vax/ (mirror) http://www.coyote.org/mirrors/vaxarchive/ (mirror) Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered

27 years, 1 month

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"default" DHV11 CSR?

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

Does anyone know the "default" CSR for the first DHV-11? (8x serial mux) I'm trying to get one recognized in my uVax III with NetBSD and it's not seeing it. --Chuck

27 years, 1 month

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"default" DHV11 CSR?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Does anyone know the "default" CSR for the first DHV-11? (8x serial mux) >I'm trying to get one recognized in my uVax III with NetBSD and it's not >seeing it. All but the earliest KA650's have a built in SYSGEN CONFIG utility which you can check for such answers. Under VMS, this is how it's done: $ mcr sysgen SYSGEN> CONFIG DEVICE> dhv11 1 DEVICE> [control-Z] Device: DHV11 Name: TXA CSR: 760440* Vector: 300* Support: yes As a side note, SHOW DEV from the >>> console prompt won't list things like serial multiplexers anyway. I suspect, however, that you're having a NetBSD problem and not a hardware configuration problem, as NetBSD for the most part completely ignores issues involving "standard" CSR's and Vectors. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 1 month

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confidential info on old harddrives.

by foxvideo＠wincom.net

At 04:32 PM 5/26/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >If this is a ? thats been dealt with before I joined the list my >apologies. > I repeatedly come across personal and confidential information on >discarded computers. I sit and shake my head in shock. Lawyers seem to >be the worst. I have considered contacting the original owners and >educating them about practicing safe hex but, especially in the case of >lawyers and women, don't want to have them freak out and think I'm being >weird and calling the police. On the other hand I feel that I should do >something. In the end I just format the drives and forget about it. > Has anyone experienced contacting an original owner? What was the >response. This is something that I've not read about in the media as Y2K >and Hackers get all the press but I suspect this is a bigger potential >problem. > > >Colan > In my opinion you are doing the right thing in just formatting the HD. If too much noise is made about this problem the word will get around and people will destroy their discarded computers rather than let them get into the hands of collecters. In some cases users don't know how to scrub the hard drive, and in others the computer has gone down and they can't erase it without going to some expense. Possibly somebody (Sam?) could come up with a "Computer Collector's Code of Ethics" which would include erasing any confidential material on acquired computers. Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo(a)wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo

27 years, 1 month

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by edick＠idcomm.com

Please see comments below: Dick -----Original Message----- From: allisonp(a)world.std.com <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, May 27, 1999 7:02 AM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) >> > The 2190 is 1224*15. However the number of cylinders can be increased (it >> > was controller limit not the drive) the limit, I think is closer to >> > 4096*16*18*512 or roughly over 600mb. The problem is that RLL with the >> >> Do you mean that Maxtor used only about the first third of the available >> platter for data? That seems like a bit of a waste. I do recall - years >> back - discussion about how the XT1085 could be extended, but not by a >> factor of three! >No, No No... > >The maxtor 2190 is 1224 Cylinders by 15 heads and whatever formatting for >the number of sectors. This lies within the capacity limit of 504 MB imposed by many older '486 motherboards. >the command structure for most MFM and RLL controllers only used >1024 of the possible 4096 (10 of the available 12 bits). It's an artifact >of the controller designs. Where do these 12 bits fit? The 10-bit limit was inherited from the WD1010 chip's register geometry. This was frequently a motherboard/BIOS-imposed restriction. If the Motherboard doesn't recognize drive types with more than 1024 cylinders, the controller won't either. Several controllers offered various ways around this, e.g. masquerading fewer heads up to the maximum of 16 and reducing the number of cylinders correspondingly, and, likewise, fiddling with the number of sectors so that it was up to the BIOS-compatible maximum of 63 whereas the drive only had 15 heads, again with a corresponding reduction in the number of cylinders. However, if the BIOS on the PC motherboard supports drives up to but not exceeding the 1024x16x63x512-byte configuration, then that's all it will do. >Physically you can go for up to 16 heads and 4096 cylinders in the st506 >interface spec'd drives. The problem was that more cylinders do not >enhance speed. It's better to pack more on a given cylinder as you can >access that data faster than moving heads across a lot of tracks. Please explain what you mean by this. I've not yet gotten feedback from my ex-girlfriend's son, currently chief eng'r at Maxtor, but I've seen no information which suggests that the 2190 drive actually had 4K cylinders. You must be referring to some geometry aliasing stunt performed by some controllers. I'm mystified. I can see no way a controller can circumvent the BIOS, which is the vehicle by means of which the OS communicates with the HDD at the lowest level. The only exception I've run into is the Lark Associates controller, which lies to the motherboard about what it attached and presents, say, my 8760 as two physical drives, of which one is at the maximal 504 MB capacity, while the remainder of the drive appears to be on a separate physical drive. >Please everyone prune of the unwated portions of the message. If I can do >it using pine across a sluggish telnet link during the day No one has an >excuse. > >Allison > >

27 years, 1 month

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Someone should correct me if I'm wrong (I'd be interested in knowing that <I'm wrong!), but the largest capacity MFM geometry is that of the Maxtor <XT2190 (1024 cylinders * 15 heads), giving you just under 150 Mbytes (M=10* <after formatting at 19 sectors/track. And the RLL version gets <another 30% or so of capacity. The 2190 is 1224*15. However the number of cylinders can be increased (it was controller limit not the drive) the limit, I think is closer to 4096*16*18*512 or roughly over 600mb. The problem is that RLL with the higher bit packing, and EDSI with the higher data rates put more data on a square inch of media and make more sense than pushing the mechanics of the drive. <Of course, large embedded-controller SCSI drives are readily available on t <surplus market these days. 9 Gbyte drives start below $150.00, and <2 Gbyte drives seem to get around $40. And they are small too! Allison

27 years, 1 month

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confidential info on old harddrives.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> It's a foolish practice. Running Norton's diskwipe is a good thing but a FYI: disk wipe write a patternover the dat file to reduce it's recoverability. <wiping program (and *think* it is okay although not as good as doing a <wipedisk) is to overwrite the offending file with another larger one, i.e. Delete and format will pretty much clean the disk. The key thing is to not leave it out in the open so to speak. <drive, and then hit the platters with a bulk eraser. I have heard that it Then the disk is useless and you much as well hit it with a hammer as the positioner servo information is gone. <is possible to recover data from the HD even after doing a wipedisk by <removing the platters and then analyzing the platters (urban legend?) Yes that is true but, you're taking in a lab setting with sophisticated tools and knowledge. IE: CIA/fbi stuff. Allison

27 years, 1 month

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VCF 3.0 ANNOUNCEMENT: VINTAGE COMPUTER FAIRE!

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Like Tim said, nont one member of LICA has a "pure" machine. Some part >was non stock and often the reason was price or availability. I can't say >how many Altair and IMSAIs with floppies from neither vendor were seen. Or, as I understand the rules, it would penalize someone who hooked a Model 33 Teletype to their Altair because MITS didn't make the Teletype. Yet the Teletype is the most singularly classic input/output peripheral of the era. And if you didn't have a Teletype, users generally had some surplus keyboard hooked to their S-100 box (heck, look at the very first issue of _BYTE_ which features "surplus keyboards" as the cover story!). Yet again, you get penalized in the judging for configuring your machine as it would have typically been configured by an actual user in that day. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 1 month

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Used DEC equipment for sale

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Anyone after PDP-11 gear? Check this out. -=-=- <break> -=-=- On Thu, 27 May 1999 02:33:09 GMT, in comp.sys.dec you wrote: >>From: "Kim Waggoner" <kaw(a)weatherbank.com> >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec >>Subject: Used DEC equipment for sale >>Lines: 11 >>Organization: WeatherBank, Inc. >>X-Priority: 3 >>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 >>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 >>Message-ID: <F9233.310$f73.185(a)news.rdc1.tx.home.com> >>Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 02:33:09 GMT >>NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.4.97.165 >>X-Complaints-To: abuse(a)home.net >>X-Trace: news.rdc1.tx.home.com 927772389 24.4.97.165 (Wed, 26 May 1999 19:33:09 PDT) >>NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 19:33:09 PDT >>Path: news1.jps.net!news.pbi.net!131.119.28.147!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!feeder.qis.net.MISMATCH!feeder.qis.net!nntp.abs.net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news.rdc1.tx.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail >>Xref: news1.jps.net comp.sys.dec:1139 >> >>We have migrated out of our DEC PDP-11 systems. >>If anyone is interested in purchasing our used DEC equipment, please E-mail >>dec(a)weatherbank.com or call Kim Waggoner at 405-359-0773. >> >>We have 3 Dyna-5 12 slot backplanes, 11/73's Mentec 11/73's (18mhz with 4MB cache). >>Emulex comm boards, SCSI and ESDI disks. MultiTech modems, KXJ-11 I/O processors ect.. >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."

27 years, 1 month

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by edick＠idcomm.com

I don't think they could be extended to 4K cylinders either. 1224 x 15 was a pretty common geometry. It even appeared in some BIOS drive tables. The 4380E was built like that wasn't it? Most manufacturers had an ST-506 interfaced drive with the same geometry as their ESDI drives so they had someplace to put the platters/HDA's which didn't handle the servo well enough. One surface was dedicated for servo, IIRC. The 4380 was about 1224x15x35 or 36 (take your pick, and set the jumper). The WD1007 ESDI controllers would make that look like 636x16x63 or some such. You didn't have to sacrifice capacity in order to use that. It was their RLL and MFM controllers that couldn't translate track/sector geometries. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 10:57 PM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) >On Wed, 26 May 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > >> <Someone should correct me if I'm wrong (I'd be interested in knowing that >> <I'm wrong!), but the largest capacity MFM geometry is that of the Maxtor >> <XT2190 (1024 cylinders * 15 heads), giving you just under 150 Mbytes (M=10* >> <after formatting at 19 sectors/track. And the RLL version gets >> <another 30% or so of capacity. >> >> The 2190 is 1224*15. However the number of cylinders can be increased (it >> was controller limit not the drive) the limit, I think is closer to >> 4096*16*18*512 or roughly over 600mb. The problem is that RLL with the > >Do you mean that Maxtor used only about the first third of the available >platter for data? That seems like a bit of a waste. I do recall - years >back - discussion about how the XT1085 could be extended, but not by a >factor of three! > - don > >> higher bit packing, and EDSI with the higher data rates put more data on >> a square inch of media and make more sense than pushing the mechanics of >> the drive. >> >> <Of course, large embedded-controller SCSI drives are readily available on t >> <surplus market these days. 9 Gbyte drives start below $150.00, and >> <2 Gbyte drives seem to get around $40. >> >> And they are small too! >> >> Allison >> >> > >

27 years, 1 month

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well . . . I'd really never considered using an SMD <=>SCSI bridge. I used to have a CDC LARK drive on my CP/M system because I've always loved removable media. That was back when my elder son wasn't tall enough to get on the table, though. Now I use SCSI drives in trays. All of them are 1GB 3.5" drives. The frames are set to hold the device ID, so the drives are, by the grace of God, hot-swappable. Those little frame/tray combo's cost $15! It's the best $15 I've spent, for sure! I was aware of the ESDI drives, having used a number, and having them around the house as doorstops, etc. The most interesting ones are the 380 MB size, which, in both MINISCRIBE and MAXTOR incarnations, allow their converson >from ESDI to SCSI with the swap of a single board. Complete software packages, e.g. FPGA/CPLD support software from conceptualization to programming tools want more than that, particularly if you want schematic entry software with it. I find 1GB about right. Libraries can be left on the server unless they need to travel to a client's site. I fought quite a bit with the MAXTOR 1140's. They just didn't work reliably with RLL/ERLL encoding, though they were rock solid when used with MFM. I don't know why this was . . . I bought two of these babies about ten years ago for use with a PERSTOR (remember them?) only to find that the controller and drives didn't like each other. My system drives ( also removable ) are EIDE models. I saw 10.5 GB drives for $199 (new) at Costco this morning. I'm sure one can do better, but that certainly would discourage me from paying $150 for used SCSI drives. I guess I am just too frugal . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 6:27 PM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) >>I've had decent results with the ADAPTEC 4070's too. What I'm mainly >>interested in is having a boxed drive, in this case, complete with bridge >>controller, which moves from system to system, as I do with my native SCSI >>drives. Unfortunately, there aren't any MFM/RLL drives big enough to be >>interesting. > >Someone should correct me if I'm wrong (I'd be interested in knowing that >I'm wrong!), but the largest capacity MFM geometry is that of the Maxtor >XT2190 (1024 cylinders * 15 heads), giving you just under 150 Mbytes (M=10**6) >after formatting at 19 sectors/track. And the RLL version gets >another 30% or so of capacity. > >Hitachi ESDI drives are available up to 1.5Gbytes or so, and work well on >Emulex ESDI<->SCSI controller. > >All the above was assuming you meant size=capacity. If you meant >size=cubic feet or pounds, I'm sure you could put a 14" CDC SMD drive >on the other side of a SMD<->SCSI controller. > >Of course, large embedded-controller SCSI drives are readily available on the >surplus market these days. 9 Gbyte drives start below $150.00, and >2 Gbyte drives seem to get around $40. > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 1 month

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Another Univac

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Today I got back to the other Univac bit, the one that got towed away by somebody else while I was slobbering all over the 9200. This is the one that is going to sacrifice some parts to keep another Univac running. But the scrapper now wants some actual cash for it, instead of just a few bucks that he hinted at before. Guess he realized that it still has about the same scrap value even after he pulls out those few parts... Anyway, I had the chance to look at it closely, and I _still_ don't know what it is. I did take notes, and have posted them on a web page. But (#@!$%) I forgot to bring the camera, so I have no pics to show. Here is the URL: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/univac/whatisit.html Please take a glance at that, and if you can help ID this thing, let me know. There is also the possibility that it could be up for grabs, since I already have more Univac than I know what to do with. I'll probably want it for myself if it is somehow needed by the 9200. Otherwise, it will be available to anyone who will cover the costs of purchase, storage, shipping, etc. If nobody claims it, it might get melted down as soon as one week from today. Bill.

27 years, 1 month

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Interesting thing on slashdot

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I work for a small Lawn & Garden sales/repair shop. We keep all the service/sales/inventory records on a TRS-80 Model 3 that we picked up at a flea market for $15 The only "upgrade" is that it now has IBM 360k FH floppy drives, because the doors on the originals were broken off. ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: ss(a)allegro.com <ss(a)allegro.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 4:57 PM Subject: Re: Interesting thing on slashdot I forwarded the contest note to a friend who still uses his Altair 8800 to burn ROMs for his company! (He assembled the Altair when it was new) He's planning on entering, but will decline if he wins...because he doesn't want to give up his machine! Stan

27 years, 1 month

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface

by edick＠idcomm.com

You can establish which modulation technique was used by looking at the crystal. If it's a harmonic of 5 MHz, it's MFM, if it's a harmonic of 7.5 MHz, it's probably RLL. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 6:55 PM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface >> <OMTI (SMS) and ADAPTEC made quite a few of these SCSI-HOST to MFM or RLL >> <devices. It seems to me that NOVELL capitalized on this proliferation of > >Who wants/needs?: >SMS OMTI 7100 REV C has 50 pin dual row header (SCSI?), power >connector, 34 pin dual row header with two 20 pin (MFM? RLL? ESDI? - who >knows which it is?) EPROM is labelled 1002286-A > > >-- >Fred Cisin cisin(a)xenosoft.com >XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com >2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 >Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 >

27 years, 1 month

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > Most later workstations had SCSI interfaces for the hard disk (even if > they then broke that by insisting on an ST506 drive on the other side of > a SCSI->ST506 interface, as ICL and Torch both did). Some older Sun did this too. It wasn't 'til SunOS 4.0 that the SCSI-disk driver would actually talk to SCSI disks. Before that, it wanted to talk to an Adaptec ACB4000 or an Emulex MD21 (for ESDI disks). I think I remember reading somewhere that this was done because the SCSI-to-whatever interface had the intelligence for bad-block remapping. But I wouldn't be surprised to find that the cost of the drives had something to do with it; I remember Amiga folks scheming to use ACB4000 boards with their SCSI interfaces because it was cheaper than buying a SCSI disk, and I've opened a few Mac SCSI hard disk boxes to find the same sort of thing inside. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 1 month

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I've had decent results with the ADAPTEC 4070's too. What I'm mainly The 4070 and a maxtor2190 will get you near 200mb. I also have a couple of boxes (disk, powersupply and scsi bridge controller) that I use for VIsual1050s that are the adaptec non RLL board. Those also run quantum d540s (31mb). For a lot of small stuff the Quantum d540 is a reliable st506 interface MFM drive, it runs RLL encoding well and is fast. Besides, I have a big bunch of them so if a box doesn't use all 512 cylinders or 8 heads not great feeling of loss. <interested in is having a boxed drive, in this case, complete with bridge <controller, which moves from system to system, as I do with my native SCSI <drives. Unfortunately, there aren't any MFM/RLL drives big enough to be there are a few EDSI bridges that would easily do serious space. Of course you can just stuff any scsi DISK into a box and be done and skip the bridge board. the latter is har not to do when for 200$ you can get a couple of GB of narrow ultra SCSI and box for maybe 19-29$. I do that with a bunch of DEC RZ56s (680mb 5.25" full height scsi) I have. Allison

27 years, 1 month

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what is this? BASIS108

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

some guy locally has one for sale. I thought it was a foreign-made apple compatible but not sure. can anyone clarify? system disks are manuals are included with the machine, i've been told. I hope it's worth $20 i'm willing to offer the guy for it.

27 years, 1 month

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Semi-Final Northstar Horizon Update

by mranalog＠home.com

Anthony Clifton said: > On a disk that Doug Coward sent me, which doesn't boot but can be read > once I boot of one of the disks sent to me by Don Maslin, Sorry, I'm just back from a vacation trip and I'm still not back at work yet, so I'm doing this from memory. It been at least a year since I sent that disk, but I seem to remember that I sent you an email after I sent the disk saying something like "Oops, by the way, by mistake the NSDOS disk I sent you is a special version compiled to load at 0100 hex not the normal 2000 hex." Look at the label, if this is the case it should say North Star DOS (version something) AT 100. So (if this is the case) you would need RAM starting from 0000, and BASIC on this disk would expect to find the DOS I/O vectors starting from 0100 hex, but the BASIC programs would work with the normal version of DOS. Without being able to search through my old email, because I'm not at work, thats how I remember it. Sorry, I just seems to have gotten in a hurry and sent the wrong DOS on the disk without thinking. I run CP/M also so I just naturally start RAM at 0000. I hope I'm not thinking of someone else I sent NSDOS to. I'm glad you're having so much success. --Doug ==================================================== Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com (work) Sr. Software Eng. mranalog(a)home.com (home) Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum/ and the new Analog Computer Museum and history Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog ====================================================

27 years, 1 month

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 27, 0:13, Tony Duell wrote: > Yes, but have you seen the price of IDC DD50 plugs? Last time I needed > some, the standard 'Amphenol' 50 pin plugs (like overgrown Centronics > plugs) were a couple of pounds a time, but the DD50s were \pounds 17.00 > or so... > > I must admit they're (DD50s) a much nicer connector, though. You can get Amphenol IDC ones that take *standard* ribbon cable (not the delicate half-pitch stuff) from Videk, for about a fiver. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 1 month

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<OMTI (SMS) and ADAPTEC made quite a few of these SCSI-HOST to MFM or RLL <devices. It seems to me that NOVELL capitalized on this proliferation of And Xybec. <Has anyone ever used a SCSI-hosted bride controller of this sort with <essentially no problems at all? If so, I'd surely like to know which one <and how it was implemented. I have the following: Adaptec 4070 SCSI to RLL, use that with a quantum D540. Xybec 14xx in a CP/M system (SB180, with SCSI adaptor) (miniscibe 3.5"mfm) DEC TK50Z SCSI to DEC TK50 DLT tape on a Microvax VIA CMD200 scsi card. All work with minimal setup. Allison

27 years, 1 month

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> wrote: > Has anyone ever used a SCSI-hosted bride controller of this sort with > essentially no problems at all? If so, I'd surely like to know which one > and how it was implemented. Um, yeah. I've had several of the Emulex MD21s in service on up to 300MB drives. They worked. Especially after we got the problem child to put his drive cabinet on his desk instead of on the floor. Here's another question for Chuck: if it was purely an economic decision, why did Sun's sd driver require the ACB4000 or MD21? I once tried to get my 2/120 w/SunOS 3.5 to talk to a SCSI disk. No go. So I tried again, with a similar disk (but ESDI) behind an MD21, and it worked just fine. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 1 month

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I've had decent results with the ADAPTEC 4070's too. What I'm mainly >interested in is having a boxed drive, in this case, complete with bridge >controller, which moves from system to system, as I do with my native SCSI >drives. Unfortunately, there aren't any MFM/RLL drives big enough to be >interesting. Someone should correct me if I'm wrong (I'd be interested in knowing that I'm wrong!), but the largest capacity MFM geometry is that of the Maxtor XT2190 (1024 cylinders * 15 heads), giving you just under 150 Mbytes (M=10**6) after formatting at 19 sectors/track. And the RLL version gets another 30% or so of capacity. Hitachi ESDI drives are available up to 1.5Gbytes or so, and work well on Emulex ESDI<->SCSI controller. All the above was assuming you meant size=capacity. If you meant size=cubic feet or pounds, I'm sure you could put a 14" CDC SMD drive on the other side of a SMD<->SCSI controller. Of course, large embedded-controller SCSI drives are readily available on the surplus market these days. 9 Gbyte drives start below $150.00, and 2 Gbyte drives seem to get around $40. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 1 month

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by edick＠idcomm.com

I've had decent results with the ADAPTEC 4070's too. What I'm mainly interested in is having a boxed drive, in this case, complete with bridge controller, which moves from system to system, as I do with my native SCSI drives. Unfortunately, there aren't any MFM/RLL drives big enough to be interesting. Nevertheless, it's a pregnant vehicle for modularity in system functionality. (almost sounds like gov-speak, doesn't it?) The idea is that I want to house software packages in boxes of their own so they can be run wherever there's a spot open. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 5:28 PM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) ><OMTI (SMS) and ADAPTEC made quite a few of these SCSI-HOST to MFM or RLL ><devices. It seems to me that NOVELL capitalized on this proliferation of > >And Xybec. > ><Has anyone ever used a SCSI-hosted bride controller of this sort with ><essentially no problems at all? If so, I'd surely like to know which one ><and how it was implemented. > >I have the following: > > Adaptec 4070 SCSI to RLL, use that with a quantum D540. > Xybec 14xx in a CP/M system (SB180, with SCSI adaptor) (miniscibe 3.5"mfm) > DEC TK50Z SCSI to DEC TK50 DLT tape on a Microvax VIA CMD200 scsi card. > >All work with minimal setup. > > >Allison >

27 years, 1 month

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Interesting thing on slashdot

by zmerch＠30below.com

Rumor has it that Aaron Christopher Finney may have mentioned these words: >For the browser impaired, Dell is hosting a contest to find the oldest PC >still in use in a small business. The winner will receive 15K in computer >equipment. Businesses have to be < 400 employees and you have to show >proof with a receipt, warranty card, or other proof of age/purchase... Actually, I was first thinking of someone who still runs his accounting business primarily on Tandy Color Computers (1's and 2's - tho he might have a 3 floating around)... However, I won't; here's why: From what it looks like on the web page, you have to donate the old computer setup back to Dell so they can give it to a museum. If the person I had in mind actually won, he'd kill me - he doesn't want to upgrade. Pentium Xeon servers won't print the checks any faster >from a daisy-wheel printer any faster than a CoCo can!!! The other downfall to this is if someone was still using 3-4 Altairs for their business setup, with the speculation over these machines the company might actually take a loss thru Dell than selling the machines via auction. Think about it. Disgusting, ain't it? Just a thought, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.

27 years, 1 month

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68020 vs 68EC020

by gareth.knight2＠which.net

Pete Turnbull wrote: >> > An A1200 question: what's the difference between the 68020 and 68EC020? >> >> I believe the 'EC' version is for Embedded Control, and lacks some of the >> functions of the plain 68020 (probably MMU-related or something). > >I'm not sure of the other details, but "EC" = "Embedded Control", as you >say. According to my Motorola cribsheet, it's a 68020 with only 24-bit >addressing, without the dynamic bus sizing, ands restricted speed range. > It does have the co-pro interface, though, and probably most if not all of >the instruction set (the crib sheet doesn't get very detailed). Yup. In real terms the choice of EC by Commodore restricted the standard A1200 to just 10Mb fast RAM. This can be overcome with an accelerator that plugs into the trapdoor. On a slightly related note, a friend of mine in the US has found that his washer machine contains a 020 processor. Those things sure get around. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | ICQ No. 24185856 http://welcome.to/aig | "Shine on your star"

27 years, 1 month

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Space, the next frontier

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> > The HD controller was 8x300, teh floppy was on the main board and relie <> <> I thought it was a Western Digital chipset, but I can't find a board to <> check at the moment. < <I just looked at one of mine and the major chip is a WD1010AL-00. I was going by the proto (likely) that I have that does have 8x300 like the DECMATE and a few of the other DEC systems. I thought it went WD as well but the board I have was scrounged from a system in the mill back in the crazy days. Allison

27 years, 1 month

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Space, the next frontier

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> All rainbows had both that was the base configuration. The later B and B < <Sure. I was commenting about Tim's comment of a dedicated Z-80 for the <FDC. AFAIK there isn't. There is a Z80, but it can run user programs. The z80 when not running user programs is dedicated to floppy IO. When it is running CPM80 code it's still servicing the Floppy. <The colour graphics card was pretty nice as well. It's got a 7220 <graphics copro on it... I know... I was at NEC when we sold it to DEC. we were trying to get them to use the 765 floppy but the alreay had to many WD chips. Allison

27 years, 1 month

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Interesting thing on slashdot

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<For the browser impaired, Dell is hosting a contest to find the oldest PC <still in use in a small business. The winner will receive 15K in computer <equipment. Businesses have to be < 400 employees and you have to show <proof with a receipt, warranty card, or other proof of age/purchase... I gotta go collect... I'm running a 286 for an oven control system and also a XT turbo clone for a measurement test and logging system. Being ISO 9001, PMA, and FM those system are well documented (and have to be eco'd if a part is replaced!). Allison

27 years, 1 month

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by edick＠idcomm.com

It's odd that SUN, then, having declared the SCSI on the skids, would have been the ONE with the most sensible and least fragile connector on their external cable harnesses. If I had $1 for every time I've had a problem with external SCSI cable connectors, I could retire in luxury. I've NEVER had trouble with the D-types, in this case, the DD-50, breaking off contacts, etc. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 4:13 PM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) >At 02:51 PM 5/26/99 -0700, Frank wrote: >>Sun did this too. [scsi to MFM] ... >>I think I remember reading somewhere that this was done because the >>SCSI-to-whatever interface had the intelligence for bad-block >>remapping. But I wouldn't be surprised to find that the cost of the >>drives had something to do with it; > >Cost has more to do with it than bad blocks, the 4.1BSD disk driver knew >how to remap bad blocks but with Adaptec and Emulex solutions you could put >_two_ cheap drives behind a SCSI interface (logical unit 0 and 1) and when >you did that the costs were significantly less for the scsi+ESDI solution. >Of course Sun was a huge proponent of IPI, claiming it would wipe SCSI off >the planet. > >--Chuck > >

27 years, 1 month

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by edick＠idcomm.com

-----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 4:21 PM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) >OMTI (SMS) and ADAPTEC made quite a few of these SCSI-HOST to MFM or RLL >devices. It seems to me that NOVELL capitalized on this proliferation of >these bridge controllers as well, providing a configuration utility for use >with their SCSI board. I don't know how well they worked, but I imagine >they had "little" problems with them as did nearly everyone else. > >Has anyone ever used a SCSI-hosted bride controller of this sort with OOPS! . . . er . . . that's BRIDGE controller . . . <sorry!> >essentially no problems at all? If so, I'd surely like to know which one >and how it was implemented. > >Dick

27 years, 1 month

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non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)

by edick＠idcomm.com

OMTI (SMS) and ADAPTEC made quite a few of these SCSI-HOST to MFM or RLL devices. It seems to me that NOVELL capitalized on this proliferation of these bridge controllers as well, providing a configuration utility for use with their SCSI board. I don't know how well they worked, but I imagine they had "little" problems with them as did nearly everyone else. Has anyone ever used a SCSI-hosted bride controller of this sort with essentially no problems at all? If so, I'd surely like to know which one and how it was implemented. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Frank McConnell <fmc(a)reanimators.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 3:58 PM Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) >ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: >> Most later workstations had SCSI interfaces for the hard disk (even if >> they then broke that by insisting on an ST506 drive on the other side of >> a SCSI->ST506 interface, as ICL and Torch both did). Some older > >Sun did this too. It wasn't 'til SunOS 4.0 that the SCSI-disk driver >would actually talk to SCSI disks. Before that, it wanted to talk to >an Adaptec ACB4000 or an Emulex MD21 (for ESDI disks). > >I think I remember reading somewhere that this was done because the >SCSI-to-whatever interface had the intelligence for bad-block >remapping. But I wouldn't be surprised to find that the cost of the >drives had something to do with it; I remember Amiga folks scheming to >use ACB4000 boards with their SCSI interfaces because it was cheaper >than buying a SCSI disk, and I've opened a few Mac SCSI hard disk >boxes to find the same sort of thing inside. > >-Frank McConnell >

27 years, 1 month

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Space, the next frontier

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<All my 'bows have 2 processors. An 8088 and a Z80. The Z80 runs the VT100 <emulation from ROM, etc, _but_ it's also possible to run user programs on <it (CP/M on a rainbow will run CP/M80 or CP/M86 programs). All rainbows had both that was the base configuration. The later B and B+ versions were allabout adding hard disk and hard disk booting, IE firmware. IT did run CPM80/86, that was the base OS and the system was set uyp so that you could run z80 or 8088 code. in z80 mode the 8088 was idle. In the 8088 mode the z80 was doing IO processing. Obviously the 8088 mode hard far more performnce than many turbo PCs as the z80 is a pretty good io processor. <I don't recall there being any processors on the disk daughterboard (and <I think I'd remember that), unlike, say, the Pro where there's a <microcontroller between the system bus and the FDC chip. The HD controller was 8x300, teh floppy was on the main board and relied on the z80. Formatting was possible on all models. Only that the early OS packages didn't include the formatter(Pournelle got a first off the line). For a long while Rainbows were popular for formatting rx50s. That and people that had them really liked them. Allison

27 years, 1 month

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confidential info on old harddrives.

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

On Wednesday, May 26, 1999 5:39 PM, Chuck McManis [SMTP:cmcmanis@mcmanis.com] wrote: > So what's the problem? Any responsible adult would simply delete/erase the > personal data and move on. Yep... That's what I do. Besides, I've never seen any info that was any particular interest to me. I'll admit, I don't generally erase other peoples source code without inspecting it. I find it invaluable when trying to learn a new OS or the specifics of a programming language. Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

27 years, 1 month

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confidential info on old harddrives.

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

So what's the problem? Any responsible adult would simply delete/erase the personal data and move on. Anyone who would consider invading someones privacy by riffling through their old data files is simply rude and uncivilized. When someone gives me a computer I offer to copy off any data onto an archive disk for them, but I then delete it after doing so. I'm sure that lawyers are the worst because they know that if you did anything with the information or even made it public knowledge that you had the information they would successfully sue you for everything you own. --Chuck At 04:32 PM 5/26/99 -0400, Colan wrote: > I repeatedly come across personal and confidential information on >discarded computers. I sit and shake my head in shock. Lawyers seem to >be the worst.

27 years, 1 month

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FA on Haggle: MultiBus Prototype boards

by edick＠idcomm.com

It would be interesting to know more about these cards. Is there a picture or something to specify the configuration of the boards? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 9:28 AM Subject: FA on Haggle: MultiBus Prototype boards >Hi, folks, > > I just posted a pair of unused MultiBus wire-wrap prototyping boards on >Haggle (I can't stand Ebay) in the 'Antique Computers' section. I've >started them off at $5.00 each, and I figure that, if anyone, at least some >of you would be interested. ;-) > > I also inserted a proviso in the description that I won't sell these to a >gold scrapper even if they're the high bid. I want these beauties to go to >someone who can actually use them in a project. > > If you want to have a look (sorry I couldn't arrange a picture): > > http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=202018178 > > Enjoy! > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >http://www.bluefeathertech.com >Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com >SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own >human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

27 years, 1 month

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Misc manuals available

by svs＠ropnet.ru

G'day, Are the following documents of value to listmembers? I could scan them, if so. I will gladly accept scan(s) of certain DEC manual(s) in return. - Control Data 405 card reader, mod D Supplemental Manual, Pub No. 49750900 (Logic Diagrams, Logic Wiring, Logic Chassis, Logic Location) - iSBC 80/30 Single Board Computer Hardware Reference Manual, (c) Intel 1978. - iSBC 501 Direct Memory Access Controller H.R.M., (c) Intel 1976. - iSBC 544 Intelligent Communications Controller H.R.M., (c) Intel 1978. - Univac Series 70: VMOS Executive Program Interface Document No. 77031000, Revision 11, Revision date: 23 August 1972. -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru

27 years, 1 month

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Unibus cards availiable

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>While visiting the scrapper that bought much of my auction I had him set >aside 4 Unibus cards that I thought the list would be interested in. I >thought they were unusual and old. > >The numbers are G235, G232 (printed with a rubber stamp) and two G114s. There >is some indication that they deal with X,Y positioning. They are 6 wide >Unibus. These are all "XY" drivers for various core planes. Most likely from 11/70 core boxes, though they were also used in other systems. They aren't actually Unibus, though they do plug into hex-height slots. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 1 month

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Space, the next frontier

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<There are dozens of other machines like that. The Xerox Daybreak I have <here has a similar setup. The TRS-80 Model 4 I have has a hard disk box <containing a WD controller card and an ST506 hard disk. That one would be <easier to modify to use a different disk, but still not trivial. the problem is often more than just having a formatter program or even the capability. Many systems the OS may have built in limitations on what drives may be used. CPM typically the bios is set up for only one trivel geometry and changing it is a assembly language project if your lucky enough to have sources. Allison

27 years, 1 month

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Unibus cards availiable

by Innfogra＠aol.com

While visiting the scrapper that bought much of my auction I had him set aside 4 Unibus cards that I thought the list would be interested in. I thought they were unusual and old. The numbers are G235, G232 (printed with a rubber stamp) and two G114s. There is some indication that they deal with X,Y positioning. They are 6 wide Unibus. If anyone is interested the owner would sell reasonably but would want more than scrap value. Paxton PS I also pulled out two Compaq Intelligent Drive Array-2 cards and an FDDI card, all for EISA bus. Does anyone know of a Compaq list that I could post them on.

27 years, 1 month

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FA on Haggle: MultiBus Prototype boards

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 5/26/99 8:36:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time, healyzh(a)aracnet.com writes: > I like that, but am curious as to how you intend to identify a scrapper. It is easy. Sell the card for more than it's scrap value. In this case it is about a penny a pin plus the value of the card's fingers (less than 50 cents, more than a quarter). Paxton

27 years, 1 month

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FA on Haggle: MultiBus Prototype boards

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Hi, folks, I just posted a pair of unused MultiBus wire-wrap prototyping boards on Haggle (I can't stand Ebay) in the 'Antique Computers' section. I've started them off at $5.00 each, and I figure that, if anyone, at least some of you would be interested. ;-) I also inserted a proviso in the description that I won't sell these to a gold scrapper even if they're the high bid. I want these beauties to go to someone who can actually use them in a project. If you want to have a look (sorry I couldn't arrange a picture): http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=202018178 Enjoy! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

27 years, 1 month

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Interesting thing on slashdot

by af-list＠lafleur.wfi-inc.com

I grabbed the following from slashdot: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/990526/tx_dell_co_2.html For the browser impaired, Dell is hosting a contest to find the oldest PC still in use in a small business. The winner will receive 15K in computer equipment. Businesses have to be < 400 employees and you have to show proof with a receipt, warranty card, or other proof of age/purchase... Aaron

27 years, 1 month

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test-drb