I found a few minutes of free time and snapped a few shots of the Card
Reader I got on Sunday with my digital camera. I've got the start of a web
page up for it at the following URL:
http://zane.brouhaha.com/healyzh/C302.html
Beware the five pic's are 640x480 or smaller, so take a while to load.
Also it will probably take a few seconds for the connection to wake up.
Apparently my DSL line 'dozes' when not being used.
I still don't know anything about it other than it's a 'Peripheral
Dynamics' Model C302 Card Reader made in May of '72. The picture at the
bottom of the page shows the empty slot that I would suspect is used to
interface it with a computer.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
Today I got VAXServer 4000-200 with another tower unit labeled R215F, both
for $10. I told the server does not work anyone know what else I need to
power this unit up ? I have no manuals, kb or anything else for it. Thanks
John I'm not sure of it's age as per the 10 year rule.
I was recently told that DEC sold an RSX-11M emulator that run as a process
on VMS for people who had old RSX code they wanted to run. Is this true?
And if so is it part of the hobbiest license?
--Chuck
I charged up the Epson HX-20 that I bought on Sunday, and it doesn't
seem to like me. The screen flickers out after a minute or so of use.
This seems to indicate a bad battery, but this hypothesis does not
appear to be borne out by lab tests.
Therefore, a lab report:
PURPOSE:
To determine if the battery pack from subject computer is
defective.
APPARATUS:
Battery pack in question (4xsubC, 4.8V)
Fluke 73-III handheld multimeter
Hewlett-Packard 6060B DC electronic load
Miscellaneous cables
47-ohm and 100-ohm resistors
PROCEDURE:
1. Measure open-circuit voltage of battery. Reading is 5.16
VDC.
2. Wire battery directly to load. Power on. Display reads
5.14 VDC, 0.03 A. Load is set as follows:
Range 6.0000 A
Input Off (htf do you turn it on?)
Short On (same)
Tran Off
Freq 1000
Slew .50000
Duty cycle 50.0
Mode Current
3. Dial in current at assorted amperages. Results:
Current Actual
requested (A) current (A) Voltage (VDC)
0.000 0.03 5.14
0.100 0.11 5.09
0.150 0.16 5.08
0.200 0.21 5.06
0.250 0.26 5.04
0.500 0.52 4.98
1.000 1.00 4.98
0.000 0.01 5.09
4. Try some resistance values.
Resistance (O) Current (A) Voltage (VDC)
5000 -0.01 5.11
1000 -0.01 5.11
500 -0.01 5.11
100 0.03 5.11
50 0.08 5.09
25 0.18 5.04
10 0.48 4.98
5 0.97 4.89
5. Connect a resistor across the battery terminals, and measure
the current.
Resistor: 100 ohms (spec)
102.3 ohms (measured)
Current: 47.3 mA
Resistor: 47 ohms (spec)
46.3 ohms (measured)
Current: 98.0 mA
CONCLUSION:
This battery pack doesn't look too defective, although I really
don't know too much about what the characteristics of a
functioning pack are.
Could someone who knows these things tell me if this pack is indeed
okay, as these tests seem to indicate, or if it is indeed bad?
--
Brad Ackerman N1MNB "...faced with the men and women who bring home
bsa3(a)cornell.edu the pork, voters almost always re-elect them."
http://skaro.pair.com/ -- _The Economist_, 31 Oct 1998
<#1 Jobs and Wozniak were actually working at Atari when they designed the
<Apple 1 (and was the resource for most of the parts they used), in fact, i
<was the revenues from Jobs' project Breakout that financed the trip to
That must have been later after HP!
<#2 IBM came to Microsoft looking for an operating system for the IBM PC,
<not the other way around. Microsoft originally sent IBM to Gary Kildall
<(developer of CP/M) who refused to meet with them. IBM returned to Gates
<who, in turn, bought the OS from Kildall himself for $50K and then license
<it back to IBM. These facts were totally inaccurate in the film.
Way off.
First Kildall didn't take the IBM meeting seriously and his wife working
with layers could net get to agreement on nodisclosure that IBM wanted.
Gary didn't refuse to meet with IBM, they "dropped in" and it was not
convenient.
Second Gates bought Qdos (a lofing of CPM1.3, that was copyright infringed)
>from Seattle Computer for $50k and granted a unlimited license back to them.
He would later reneg on the deal. The copyright problem would result in
the rapid design by virgins and issue of the buggy MSDOS/PCDOS V2.
<#3 Bill's hair was never that blonde.
In 1978 when I met him at PCC78 it was light but very dirty blonde!
Allison
Aren't those 6520's just weak-kneed versions of the 6821? I haven't ever
had cause to use a 6520 and I though it was more or less the same in an
identical pinout as the 6821 (maybe the 6521).
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Dwight Elvey <elvey(a)hal.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: Quest ELF was Top 150 .....
>Philip.Belben(a)pgen.com wrote:
>>
>>
>> Ethan Dicks wrote:
>>
>> > Now, my junk box is *much* deeper. I could probably assemble an entire
>> > PET PCB and Amiga PCB, just from spares. Thankfully, I don't have to.
>>
>>
>> You mean you actually have spare 6520 chips? How many can you send me
and how
>> much do you want? I have at least one dead one in one of my PETS.
>>
>> Philip.
>
>Hi Philip
> You can buy 6520A's from Jameco. Part number 43246 at $3.75us for
>1-9 and $2.95us for 10+ ( 2.95 was a sale price and may have gone up
>some). You can even deal through the net ( www.jameco.com ).
>Take care
>Dwight
>
>PS
> Of course you could always give me your PET.
>I would give it a good home ;)
>
On Jun 23, 12:22, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> --- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > What is the (practical) difference between a 6520 and a 6821? They look
> > to be very similar devices IIRC.
>
> I do not know. I do, however, have an abundance of 6821 chips.
As far as I know, there is no practical difference. They are supposed to
be equivalents.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
On Jun 23, 14:53, Philip.Belben(a)pgen.com wrote:
> Ethan Dicks wrote:
>
> > Now, my junk box is *much* deeper. I could probably assemble an entire
> > PET PCB and Amiga PCB, just from spares. Thankfully, I don't have to.
> You mean you actually have spare 6520 chips? How many can you send me
and how
> much do you want? I have at least one dead one in one of my PETS.
They're not hard to get: Rockwell still make 6520s (or at least, suppliers
here still list them), and Hitachi and SGS-Thomson make 6821s, which are
exact replacements (the 68A21 is slighlty faster at 1.5MHz and the 68B21 is
2MHz, but that won't matter). You can get them from Farnell in the UK.
We always used to replace the 6520s with 6820s or 6821s if they failed, as
the 682x seemed to be more robust.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
Hi. A while back I was talking with Rodger on the list about the
(appearant) abundance of GridPad 1910's that he was selling.... did th
message t osend money float by me, or are we all still in waiting? And
come to think of it, I haven't seen any messages from Rodger recently...
thanks
Tim
On Jun 23, 20:30, Lawrence LeMay wrote:
> Subject: card edge connectors
> I'm looking to buy several card edge connectors, preferrably with solder
> ends. I'm not exactly sure of the size of the connector though.
>
> Its a 10x2 connector, and the width of each connector&space appears to
> be a tiny bit more than 1.5 times the same measurements from a IBM XT
> expansion card. IE, putting the edge connectors together, 3 connectors
and
> gap spaces on a XT board are almost the same as 2 connectors and gap
> spaces on the connector I need to purchase.
>
> Any ideas of the proper name for what i'm looking for is, and maybe a
> source that I could obtain these from, will be appreciated. I'm
rebuilding
> 20+ year old Terak keyboards, and this will help complete the project.
Sounds like a connector with a 0.156" pitch, which is a standard pitch made
by several companies. Any reasonable electronic supplier should have them.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
I'm looking to buy several card edge connectors, preferrably with solder
ends. I'm not exactly sure of the size of the connector though.
Its a 10x2 connector, and the width of each connector&space appears to
be a tiny bit more than 1.5 times the same measurements from a IBM XT
expansion card. IE, putting the edge connectors together, 3 connectors and
gap spaces on a XT board are almost the same as 2 connectors and gap
spaces on the connector I need to purchase.
Any ideas of the proper name for what i'm looking for is, and maybe a
source that I could obtain these from, will be appreciated. I'm rebuilding
20+ year old Terak keyboards, and this will help complete the project.
-Lawrence LeMay
lemay(a)cs.umn.edu
Ethan Dicks wrote:
> Now, my junk box is *much* deeper. I could probably assemble an entire
> PET PCB and Amiga PCB, just from spares. Thankfully, I don't have to.
You mean you actually have spare 6520 chips? How many can you send me and how
much do you want? I have at least one dead one in one of my PETS.
Philip.
>>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> writes:
Tony> I have a daybreak. To confirm it's the same machine, it's a
Tony> brown tower case with 5 card slots on the back. From the
Tony> left (looking at the back), they are :
Tony> Memory/video Spare (memory expansion?) Mesa Processor Board
Tony> I/O Processor Board Spare (Optional I/O)
Tony> To the right of those there's a fold-down door with the PSU
Tony> and hard disk behind it. The floppy drive (and tape streamer
Tony> on my machine) are separate boxes that stack on top of the
Tony> main tower.
I have all slots full, I cannot confirm the order right now,
but it seems right to me. In my unit, the PSU e ontop the harddisk,
and there are three fans on the bottom of the case, that slide just
like a rack (I guess it's even numbered after all the other boards),
after a couple of screws have been removed.
Tony> I also have a monitor - a big (Samtron?) monochrome
Tony> thing. What I don't have is the keyboard or mouse. The
Tony> keyboard plugs into the 5 pin DIN socket on the monitor
Tony> base, the mouse, I believe, plugs into the keyboard.
Hum, one of the boards of my unit, the one with the floppy
interface, ethernet, and serial ports, has a DB9 conector labeled
keyboard. But I found a couple of extra lines in the DB15 monitor
connector besides video and sync signals...
Tony> I am told that hardwre documentation and especially
Tony> schematics for this machine are impossible to obtain. When I
Tony> have time, I'll attack my machine with a logic analyser and
Tony> try to figure out something about it. But that won't happen
Tony> soon, I'm afraid.
Thanks for the info anyway.
Cheers,
--
*** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt>
*** Teaching Assistant and MSc. Student at ISR:
*** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa
*** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, Portugal
*** PGP Public Key available on my homepage:
*** http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda
*** Key fingerprint = 0C 0A 25 58 46 CF 14 99 CF 9C AF 9E 10 02 BB 2A
>I'm looking to buy several card edge connectors, preferrably with solder
>ends. I'm not exactly sure of the size of the connector though.
>
>Its a 10x2 connector, and the width of each connector&space appears to
>be a tiny bit more than 1.5 times the same measurements from a IBM XT
>expansion card. IE, putting the edge connectors together, 3 connectors and
>gap spaces on a XT board are almost the same as 2 connectors and gap
>spaces on the connector I need to purchase.
Common pitches for card edge connectors are 0.1", 0.125", 0.156", and
0.24". The ISA-bus connector is 0.1" pitch, so I'm willing to bet you
want a 0.156" pitch card edge connector.
>Any ideas of the proper name for what i'm looking for is, and maybe a
>source that I could obtain these from, will be appreciated. I'm rebuilding
>20+ year old Terak keyboards, and this will help complete the project.
You're lucky that you're in the same state with one of the best
distributors for card edge connectors, Digikey. Go to http://www.digikey.com/
and you'll find that EDAC and Sullins make edge connectors like what
you want, with your choice of solder tail or solder eyelet terminations.
For your use, it sounds like you want to put wires on the edge connectors,
so I'm guessing that you want the solder eyelet termination, in which case
you want EDAC 305-020-520-202, Digikey EDC307200-ND, which will cost
you exactly $1.98.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
If you compare the pin spacing with that of the classic 44-pin edge
connector, you may find it's the same, based on what you wrote. I'd guess
it's 0.15625" spacing. There are really only three typical spacings from
the old days: 5/32", 1/8", and 1/10".
The S-100 used 1/8" while the ISA Bus connectors used 0.100. The old
KIM-Bus was 5/32".
Is that the info you needed?
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence LeMay <lemay(a)cs.umn.edu>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 2:36 PM
Subject: card edge connectors
>I'm looking to buy several card edge connectors, preferrably with solder
>ends. I'm not exactly sure of the size of the connector though.
>
>Its a 10x2 connector, and the width of each connector&space appears to
>be a tiny bit more than 1.5 times the same measurements from a IBM XT
>expansion card. IE, putting the edge connectors together, 3 connectors and
>gap spaces on a XT board are almost the same as 2 connectors and gap
>spaces on the connector I need to purchase.
>
>Any ideas of the proper name for what i'm looking for is, and maybe a
>source that I could obtain these from, will be appreciated. I'm rebuilding
>20+ year old Terak keyboards, and this will help complete the project.
>
>-Lawrence LeMay
> lemay(a)cs.umn.edu
--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> What is the (practical) difference between a 6520 and a 6821? They look
> to be very similar devices IIRC.
I do not know. I do, however, have an abundance of 6821 chips.
-ethan
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
<I can grab a big Compro (model:?) computer that the junk guys says is a
<S100 computer. it includes two 8" drives.
What model? They had at least 4 or 5.
<Anyone know anything about this box?
Generic question generic answer.... Yes!
Allison
> Ah yes. Active use of Rax's theory in computing collecting. I have multiple
> instances of empirical proof of it's validity. Wonder what I would need to draw
> an Apple 1 to me.
>
CASH!
Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>
In a message dated 6/22/99 1:06:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes:
>
> > Anyone know of a company/person who fixes/refurbishes/aligns floppy
drives?
>
> > I need some old floppies worked on.
>
Try
ABC Drives 818-885-7157
ITS 800-342-Disk they also do 8" floppies and Pertec
I can find more if these don't help.
Paxton
Perhaps not a true acid test, but one that reassures me as to its veracity.
I loaded FOCAL-8 tonight from tape via the '33s reader, then typed in one
of the example programs from the programming in Focal pamphlet that found
the intersection of two functions and then "plotted" them using ASCII
graphics. It all worked as expected so I'm officially declaring this setup
revived. I also found a kind soul on the greenkeys list who will re-ink
ASR-33 ribbons so I will have something of a supply of those. All in all I
am quite pleased and it should make for a _much_ better VCF display running
Focal than it did last year just running the memory test!
--Chuck
<http://www.play.com/news/062199-2.html>
Paul was one of the founders of the First Amiga User Group in the
mid-80s in San Jose. He soon became part of NewTek, makers of the
prescient DigiView video digitizer for the Amiga, and the video
manipulation device the Video Toaster.
Paul left NewTek with several other employees to form Play several
years ago, who made the Snappy video digitizer for PCs, and the
Trinity video effects device.
- John
>What DEC module would be the Q-Bus controller for a TS05 (9-track) tape
>drive? I just aquired a drive and I'd like to give it a spin.
For Q-bus:
M7196 TSV05 Q TSV05 controller for Q/Q22 bus
For Unibus:
M7455 TSU05 U TSU05 controller
Since the TS05 interface is just a minor variation on Pertec Formatted,
*most* generic Pertec formatted formatters (i.e. Dilog DQ132, Emulex
QT13, etc.) will work.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
--- Philip.Belben(a)pgen.com wrote:
>
>
> Ethan Dicks wrote:
> You mean you actually have spare 6520 chips? How many can you send me and
> how much do you want? I have at least one dead one in one of my PETS.
I will have to look. I bought a former Commodore dealer when they went
bankrupt in 1992. I do have a tacklebox full of PET parts. I have no
idea what a 6520 is worth these days. They used to sell for between $5
and $10 when I had to replace one in the old days.
-ethan
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
This is not really on topic, since I failed to find any classic computers,
but...
I just got pointed towards qxl.com, "Europe's biggest on-line auction".
It was (a) very short of stuff for sale; (b) expensive; (c) devoid of anything I
might have considered buying.
Has anyone on this list _ever_ bought _anything_ useful and/or at a sensible
price from QXL?
Or had I better just look at the US on-line auctions and pay the transatlantic
shipping?
Philip.
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--- Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> wrote:
After I wrote:
> >I just bought the bare [Quest Elf] board.
>
> It was available as a kit but rarely did I ever buy the kit if I could get
> the bare board. I had (and still have) a very deep junk box.
In high school, I had enough of a junk box to build most of the Elf with
scrounged parts (I did screw up and stick in some 4001's instead of the
4011's the first time I assembled the Elf. It didn't work so well ;-)
Now, my junk box is *much* deeper. I could probably assemble an entire
PET PCB and Amiga PCB, just from spares. Thankfully, I don't have to.
-ethan
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
That was the traffic signal control system they wrote software for before
they got the MITS contract. They mumble its name briefly in the dialogue.
"TrafficNet" or something, I forget.
Kai
-----Original Message-----
From: LordTyran [mailto:a2k@one.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 1999 5:18 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: WTF?
I'm watching Pirates of Silicon Valley on TNT right now (yes, I'm so lame
I have my computer in front of the television) and Bill Gates is working
on a box... the dialogue infers that it is supposed to by an Altair,
but it's just a big box with four blinking lights (alternates - 2 red,
2 green) and reading paper tape.... next scene he's working on a PDP-8/?
(I I think, but I'm not up on my PDPs... not so much working on it as
having the machine open on his table... no soldering iron, manuals,
cards... I could have made the scene a lot better with the stuff in my
basement...)
Oh well.
Kevin
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
"It's you isn't it? THE BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL!"
"In the flesh, on the phone and in your account..."
-- BOFH #3
<I don't doubt that it was possible to build quite a good computer from the
<board selection that the CompuPro line had, at one time or another. I
<bought about ten combinations they recommended, however, and not a one of
Try this,
STD Compupro s100 crate.
CPU-Z Z80
Ram17
MPX-1
DISK1
DISK3
InterfacerII
Runs killer, no repairs needed depite the boards last being powered in '92.
<Once there was a standard, I don't believe that any other single
I could never figure it out. If anything after working with Multibus,
Qbus and Omnibus s100 was pure anarchy though somewhat tolerent of bizzare
variations.
<manufacturer did more to undermine the standard than CompuPro. Their board
<were not all claimed "compliant" to the standard and even those about whic
<that claim was made often had little footnotes disclaiming certain things
<and indicting where they felt their board didn't comply precisely. Since
<that set a model for others, even if they didn't originate the practice,
Based on the manuals I have (fairly complete) and expereince they were
pushing IEE696 and no question their interpretation was somewhat off.
Then again my NS*, Computime and CCS systems don't come close either.
IEEE spec was pretty late in the game and was influenced more by the
intel cpu timings (8085 and 8086 series).
<non-compliant boards were proliferated throughout the S-100 world, spreadin
<non-interoperability throughout. This lead people to throw up their hands
It was already there, that was what IEE696 was supposed to fix long after
the barn emptied and burned. Like none of the Teltek (or Konan) cards
work in NS* crates due to some lines being grounded and the expectation of
address mirroring on IO.
<at the prospect of continuing to use S-100 systems in favor of the
<relatively risk-free SBC's which were becoming VERY popular, e.g. Ferguson
<Big Board, Ampro, et. al. and offered CP/M standard media compatibility at
<the disk level and all the basic features built-in.
That part I can't agree with more. S100 interoperability was at best
terrible and generally systems integration was a true challenge. My
Ampro and SB180 systems are compact, fast and worked (and still do) as
advertized! Bus based systems are flexible, but without well established
standards it can be tough to make them work with third party boards.
My qbus and multibus experience also shows with a good solid specification
it's still possible to produce a third party board that is marginal.
<The IEEE Std.696 board scheme couldn't survive if it wasn't sincerely
<implemented.
True.. it required lot of stuff including timing specs that most Z80s
didn't meet. It's worst fault was the adption was near the end of the
S100s life span when there were already a flooded market of non conforming
boards. While I was a user and adopted it S100 was a terrible bus!
Allison
I don't doubt that it was possible to build quite a good computer from the
board selection that the CompuPro line had, at one time or another. I
bought about ten combinations they recommended, however, and not a one of
them worked, so I sent them back. I still have a couple of their
motherboards in various cardcages. I will say one thing against the
CompuPro line, though, and I doubt it can be denied.
Once there was a standard, I don't believe that any other single
manufacturer did more to undermine the standard than CompuPro. Their boards
were not all claimed "compliant" to the standard and even those about which
that claim was made often had little footnotes disclaiming certain things
and indicting where they felt their board didn't comply precisely. Since
that set a model for others, even if they didn't originate the practice,
because they were at the bottom of the price scale, their non-standard and
non-compliant boards were proliferated throughout the S-100 world, spreading
non-interoperability throughout. This lead people to throw up their hands
at the prospect of continuing to use S-100 systems in favor of the
relatively risk-free SBC's which were becoming VERY popular, e.g. Ferguson
Big Board, Ampro, et. al. and offered CP/M standard media compatibility at
the disk level and all the basic features built-in.
The IEEE Std.696 board scheme couldn't survive if it wasn't sincerely
implemented.
(now I'll get off my soapbox . . .)
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: Compro, S100 & 8" drives
><That's a risky proposition. CompuPro produced some of the best but much o
><the worst S-100 hardware ever made. It seems that Bill Godbout would buy
><couple of boxcar loads of j-k flipflops and the next 5 boards his guys
><produced would be made from them. Nobody cared if they worked. People
><bought them because they were cheap. Interoperability was never a concern
><for Godbout. If it worked with ONE of their other boards, that was good
><enough.
>
>I have two systems and spares for two more and am using some of them in
>other systems, all work. From some 10 systems I aquired and parted out to
>several here. Those 10 systems ran a small company and I know their
history
>and the original owner would also argue they were solid. Generally the
>later IEE696 complient boards are very good and my experience over 20 years
>says they were one of the better vendors. HOWEVER::: The 696 complient
>boards often did not work in systems that were way off the spec or were
>pre696. My ALTAIR and the NS* systems are amoung them for the most part.
>the NS* mis uses a few lines so the timings are off and a few liknes are
>ground that would be otherwise assigned. Standard S100 problem till about
>'83-84ish.
>
>The most interesting and scarce bord they did was the MPX-1 an IO
>processing slave. I'm running one with a DISK-1 and DISK-3 in a z80
>system to offload the IO (most of the bios) and it's really a sweet deal.
>
>Allison
>
One other item, aside from speed to be considered when using this part, is
the current it will sink. The LS variety was slower, basically because it
used a slower technology. The 8T97 used essentially the same technology
internally as the SCHOTTKY parts the various vendors sold, but it had
stiffer outputs, i.e. could sink/source more current. Almost any part which
was as fast and would source/sink as much current, will generally bring
about the same behavior in the rest of the circuit. If the edges become too
steep, as you might see in the form of too much ringing or
overshoot/undershoot, soldering little 1/8-watt resistors in series with the
outputs will help. I'd say start with 47 ohms and go as far to the smaller
side of that as you like. Fairchild actually made a version of their
"F-series" logic with 33-ohm resistors built in to minimize problems from
both ground bounce and output edges being too steep. One other thing that
helps somewhat is to solder a small (<.001uF) high-frequency cap between
power and ground on the IC, straight across the back. The leads are long,
but it will maintain enough local storage to help with the ground bounce.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: N8T97N IC, what is it?
>>
>> Jim:
>>
>> The 8T97 was also recently discontinued by Jameco.
>>
>> How does the propogation delay compare to the LS367? Tony said that
the
>> 8T97 has an 8us delay. ISTR that the reason to use the 8T97 was that it
had
>> a shorter delay.
>
>
>Yes, you're right. The same Signetics data book lists the 74LS367 as
>having a typical propagation delay of 10ns. Incidentally, if I claimed
>8us for the 8T97, that was a typo, I meant 8ns, of course.
>
>Anyway, the 74F367 (I looked in the Philips databook) claims a typical
>delay of 5ns, so that should easily replace the 8T97 (provided decoupling
>an layout is OK - these FAST chips like to cause ground-bounce, etc).
>
>
>-tony
>
<That's a risky proposition. CompuPro produced some of the best but much o
<the worst S-100 hardware ever made. It seems that Bill Godbout would buy
<couple of boxcar loads of j-k flipflops and the next 5 boards his guys
<produced would be made from them. Nobody cared if they worked. People
<bought them because they were cheap. Interoperability was never a concern
<for Godbout. If it worked with ONE of their other boards, that was good
<enough.
I have two systems and spares for two more and am using some of them in
other systems, all work. From some 10 systems I aquired and parted out to
several here. Those 10 systems ran a small company and I know their history
and the original owner would also argue they were solid. Generally the
later IEE696 complient boards are very good and my experience over 20 years
says they were one of the better vendors. HOWEVER::: The 696 complient
boards often did not work in systems that were way off the spec or were
pre696. My ALTAIR and the NS* systems are amoung them for the most part.
the NS* mis uses a few lines so the timings are off and a few liknes are
ground that would be otherwise assigned. Standard S100 problem till about
'83-84ish.
The most interesting and scarce bord they did was the MPX-1 an IO
processing slave. I'm running one with a DISK-1 and DISK-3 in a z80
system to offload the IO (most of the bios) and it's really a sweet deal.
Allison
Sellam doesn't like the movie because he's an early Apple devotee, and the
movie portrays Steve Jobs as an acid-dropping, drug-pushing, commune-living,
personal-conviction-abandoning, illegitimate-daughter-fathering,
beyond-workaholic, universally-disliked-yet-adored, employee-abusing,
god-complex-nurturing, business-disrupting idiot whom one expects to have
his employees drink hemlock-laden Kool-Aid at any moment.
Oh, and Wozniak is portrayed as a small, fuzzy bunny.
Does that about sum it up?
Kai
p.s. the Microsoft contingent gets off rather lightly by comparison, with
Bill Gates shown as merely a shrewd, somewhat ruthless, absent-minded
businessman with personal hygiene issues. Paul Allen is indistinguishable
>from Wozniak in the film, just standing in the background of shots, and has
about 30 seconds of screen time. Steve Ballmer, however, is played by
Krusty the Klown from the Simpsons.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com]
Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 11:33 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: That awful show on TNT
On Mon, 21 Jun 1999, Tony Duell wrote:
> > I'm virtually apoplectic about this garbage that some of you may watched
> > tonight on TV (I certainly did NOT watch it).
>
> For the benefit of those of us who don't get American TV, could you
> please explain what this programme (show?) was and what it got wrong?
Its a "story" (fictional) about the early days of Apple vs. Microsoft. I
don't even want to talk about it really. Just know it was horrible in
every way possible.
If anyone dares to pipe up and say they actually liked it I swear to you I
will unleash such a torrent of rage upon thee so please don't. Keep it to
yourself for your own good.
Sellam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 05/25/99]
<I just bought the bare board. I may have mis-remembered the price. I
<know I got the CPU chip and 1822 RAMs from Hughes-Peters here in Columbus.
<also got the RCA VIP docs from them, too, when a friend cleaned out his fil
<cabinet.
It was available as a kit but rarely did I ever buy the kit if I could get
the bare board. I had (and still have) a very deep junk box.
Allison
Anyone know of a company/person who fixes/refurbishes/aligns floppy drives?
I need some old floppys worked on.
How about hard disc repair shops?
----------------------------------------
Tired of Micro$oft???
Move up to a REAL OS...
######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ #
#####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /##
####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /###
###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |####
##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|####
# ######
("LINUX" for those of you
without fixed-width fonts)
----------------------------------------
Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com
Slackware Mailing List:
http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html
Hello, can anyone provide me with the voltages for the motherboard
connector of a Panasonic Businessmate (286) PSU? On the floppy
connectors, I assume that the red it +12V, the 2 blacks are GND, and the
yellow is +5?
Thanks,
Kevin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's you isn't it? THE BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL!"
"In the flesh, on the phone and in your account..."
-- BOFH #3
This coming Saturday, 26th June 99, will be another in an endless
series of TRW Ham Radio and Electronics Swap Meets.. at the TRW
Plant in El Segundo, CA, from 7:30 to 11:00 am. The meet is held on
the last saturday of every month, no matter what.
From the 405 (San Diego) freeway, take the Rosecrans exit and go
west 1 mile to Aviation. Turn left (south) on Aviation [under the
Metrolink bridge] and go down about four blocks. The TRW facility
will be on your right, and the Meet is held in the southernmost
parking lots.
I will be in spaces J21 and J23, if anyone wishes to come by and
heckle me in person.
If someone has an item or two to sell, let me know via private
e-mail and Arrangements will be made.
Due to Ham Field Day activities, no brunch or will be held after
the meet this time. *Next* month, however....
Cheers
John
In a message dated 6/20/99 11:36:32 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dastar(a)ncal.verio.com writes:
> I'm virtually apoplectic about this garbage that some of you may watched
> tonight on TV (I certainly did NOT watch it).
>
> If the facts and how they are perceived in the public's mind weren't
> already distorted enough, this show totally trivializes the recent history
> of computing. They would not do this with the Holocaust or Vietnam, so
> how dare they create such a blatantly falsified story?
>
> It will take years to undo the misconceptions and outright falsehoods this
> show has promoted.
was it really that bad? I wasnt able to view it. Please give some examples of
what was wrong with the show.
Despite your best efforts to keep me from helping you by dissing Microsoft
in your help request :), here is the solution to your problem from the MS
KnowledgeBase
(http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q191/0/64.asp)
Kai
Error Messages When Running TCP/IP-Based Utilities or Programs[win95x]
ID: Q191064 CREATED: 06-AUG-1998 MODIFIED: 28-MAY-1999
WINDOWS:95
WINDOWS
PUBLIC | kberrmsg kbtool win95
\* Security : PUBLIC
======================================================================
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
The information in this article applies to:
- Microsoft Windows 95
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
SYMPTOMS
========
You may experience the following symptoms when you attempt to use a
Transmission
Control Protocol/Internet Protocol-based (TCP/IP-based) utility or program:
- When you attempt to use the Winipcfg utility, you receive the following
error
message:
Fatal Error! Cannot read IP configuration.
- When you attempt to ping a Web site name or TCP/IP address using the Ping
utility, you receive either of the following error messages:
- Bad IP address <Web address>
- PING: transmit failed, error code 10091
- When you attempt to load a Web page using Internet Explorer, you receive
the
following error message:
Internet Explorer cannot open the Internet site <Web address>. A
connection with the server could not be established.
- When you try to uninstall Microsoft Personal Web Server 4.0, you receive
the
following error message:
WINSOCK2 is required to run this setup utility. Please click OK to exit
setup.
CAUSE
=====
This behavior can occur if you attempt to uninstall the Winsock 2.0 update
for
Windows 95, but it is not uninstalled completely.
RESOLUTION
==========
To resolve this behavior, follow these steps:
1. Click Start, point to Programs, and then click MS-DOS Prompt.
2. At the command prompt, type the following commands, pressing ENTER after
each
command
cd\<windows>\ws2bakup
ws2bakup.bat
exit
where <windows> is the folder in which Windows is installed.
NOTE: If you are prompted to abort, retry, or fail the operation, press
A.
This causes the Ws2bakup.bat to continue restoring up all the necessary
files.
NOTE: If you receive sharing violation error messages when you run the
Ws2bakup.bat file, continue with step 3.
3. Click Start, click Shut Down, click "Restart in MS-DOS mode," and then
click
OK.
4. Repeat step 2.
NOTE: If you receive error messages when you run the Ws2bakup.bat file
stating
that some programs cannot be run outside of Windows 95, disregard them.
MORE INFORMATION
================
For more information about the Winsock 2.0 update for Windows 95, please see
the
following article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
Q182108 Availability of Windows Sockets 2.0 for Windows 95
Additional query words: wsock
======================================================================
Keywords : kberrmsg kbtool win95
Version : WINDOWS:95
Platform : WINDOWS
Issue type : kbprb
\* Edit Status : Published
\* Tech Status : Reviewed
-----Original Message-----
From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com]
Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 11:15 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: OT: Desperate for immediate help with Win95 IP stack
I would normally not post such a lame question to this list but I need
help desparately and don't have time to go wading through a haystack for a
needle. Its bad enough I have to keep re-visiting this problem of windows
deciding to kill itself every few months for the joy of it.
My IP stack is hosed on my Win95 machine. When I try to ping any host I
get "Transmit failed, error code 10091". If I try to run WINIPCFG I get
"Fatal error: cannot read IP configuration".
Since MS is fucked and doesn't have any sort of technical documentation
anywhere useful that would list these errors I must now try to go
searching for what this bullshit means. Unless you already have the
answer?
This started to happen after I had to re-install windows over the existing
install, because it all of a sudden started coming up with a "Windows
exception" during boot and would not boot any further.
TIA.
Sellam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 05/25/99]
Hi. I got a Xeros workstation recently, probably a Daybreak. I
was able to hack the monitor a bit and connect it, but I'm totally
puzzled by the keyboard. Does anyone has any info about Daybreak
hardware (ou Xerox ws. hardware in general), namely pinouts, etc. I'm
really in need for that kind of info.
Thanks,
Cheers,
--
*** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt>
*** Teaching Assistant and MSc. Student at ISR:
*** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa
*** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, Portugal
*** PGP Public Key available on my homepage:
*** http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda
*** Key fingerprint = 0C 0A 25 58 46 CF 14 99 CF 9C AF 9E 10 02 BB 2A
> On the chance that someone else here might be interested, the
> arcade video game song classics Pacman Fever, etc. have now
> been released on CD. Check out:
>
> http://www.bucknergarcia.com
>
> Now maybe I'll replace my vinyl copy.
You throwing out the vinyl version? I'll take it! :-)
(seriously, I buy vinyl whenever possible, but I'd mainly rather buy secondhand
than pay new CD price for something like that.)
More seriously, I checked out the URL you gave, and it says "the 8 songs from
the vinyl version" but doesn't say what they are!
Does it contain the Space Invaders song? That's the only video game song I
remember hearing...
Philip.
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept
for the presence of computer viruses.
Power Technology Centre, Ratcliffe-on-Soar,
Nottingham, NG11 0EE, UK
Tel: +44 (0)115 936 2000
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**********************************************************************
That's a risky proposition. CompuPro produced some of the best but much of
the worst S-100 hardware ever made. It seems that Bill Godbout would buy a
couple of boxcar loads of j-k flipflops and the next 5 boards his guys
produced would be made from them. Nobody cared if they worked. People
bought them because they were cheap. Interoperability was never a concern
for Godbout. If it worked with ONE of their other boards, that was good
enough.
Dick (owner of lots of Godbout's hardware -and some even works!)
-----Original Message-----
From: Arfon Gryffydd <arfonrg(a)texas.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 8:38 AM
Subject: Compro, S100 & 8" drives
>I can grab a big Compro (model:?) computer that the junk guys says is a
>S100 computer. it includes two 8" drives.
>
>Anyone know anything about this box?
>----------------------------------------
> Tired of Micro$oft???
>
> Move up to a REAL OS...
>######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ #
>#####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /##
>####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /###
>###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |####
>##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|####
># ######
> ("LINUX" for those of you
> without fixed-width fonts)
>----------------------------------------
>Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com
>
>Slackware Mailing List:
>http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html
I would normally not post such a lame question to this list but I need
help desparately and don't have time to go wading through a haystack for a
needle. Its bad enough I have to keep re-visiting this problem of windows
deciding to kill itself every few months for the joy of it.
My IP stack is hosed on my Win95 machine. When I try to ping any host I
get "Transmit failed, error code 10091". If I try to run WINIPCFG I get
"Fatal error: cannot read IP configuration".
Since MS is fucked and doesn't have any sort of technical documentation
anywhere useful that would list these errors I must now try to go
searching for what this bullshit means. Unless you already have the
answer?
This started to happen after I had to re-install windows over the existing
install, because it all of a sudden started coming up with a "Windows
exception" during boot and would not boot any further.
TIA.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 05/25/99]
On the chance that someone else here might be interested, the
arcade video game song classics Pacman Fever, etc. have now
been released on CD. Check out:
http://www.bucknergarcia.com
Now maybe I'll replace my vinyl copy.
-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw(a)trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com
One of these beasts is available for the price of shipping (from zip 97339)
if someone responds to be by Thursday (6/24/1999). Please save this guy
>from the scrap heap. A short (two or three foot) cable is included, though
the power cable is missing. (Connectors appear to be 37 pin D-sub (DC37?)
at both ends.
Guestimate weight is about 20 pounds. Check your preferred method of
shipping.
No media.
Only one, so first-come, first-served.
Gary
I sold mine to a local guy last week for $300. The last one on eBay about
three weeks back went for $565.
good luck!
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom howe <howet(a)ohsu.edu>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 3:23 AM
Subject: MITS ALTAIR 8-inch Floppy Auction
Hello:
I put an original 8-inch floppy drive for the Altair on Ebay. Go to this URL
to see a picture of the unit and to place a bid:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120678854
--Tom
>Wait a minute.... You can order out of print manuals from Compaq? How
>much, and who do you contact? This sounds even more interesting than the
>pair I've got!
You call 1-800-DIGITAL, give them the part number (often EK-xxxxx-UG
or -MM or whatever), and they'll tell you about availability. Not
everything is available, but a fair amount of stuff from the 60's
and 70's is available as kind-of nicely Xeroxed copies of the originals.
Some of the copies are from microfiche and aren't so nice. It's hard
to tell beforehand how nice the copy you end up getting will look!
If you don't know the part number, a very handy tool is the DAS
(Digital Assisted Services) searchable catalog, at
http://www.digital.com/info/DAS-Catalog/dassearch.htm
For example, I typed in "RX0" and it came back with these part numbers
and prices:
H771-A Pow Supply RX01 (RX11) 60 Hz $276.00
M7726-00 RX01 Controller $405.00
M7727-00 RX01 R/W Control $152.00
M7846-00 RX01 Unibus $426.00
M8029-00 RXV21, Q-bus RX02 Interface $381.00
M8256-00 RX211 Unibus RX02 Interface $518.00
EK-ORX01-MM RX01/08/11 Maintenance Manual $ 84.00
EK-ORX01-OP RX8/RX11 RX01 Floppy Disk Sys $ 21.00
EK-ORX02-UG RX02 Floppy Disk System Users $ 21.00
EK-RX012-PS RX01/RX02 Pocket Serivce Guide $ 42.00
Now clearly not all the RX01/02 parts that ever existed are in
the above list, but it's a start. And it also shows you how DEC
manual part numbers are often constructed; "-MM" is Maintenance
Manual, "-UG" is User's Guide, "-PS" is the Pocket Service Guide,
etc.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
Does anyone have a copy of the "IBM PC Network Technical Reference Manual"
(c. 1984) that they could part with / copy/scan a few pages out of for me?
I'm trying to write an RPL loader daemon and can't seem to figure out a
few things about the protocol. (I'm trying to boot an IBM 8227, which is
not-so-classic as the above book is.)
Also, does anyone know of something (besides LANtastic, which I can't get
to work), that will speak such an old thing as IBM "FIND/FOUND" RPL?
Thanks
af
---
Adam Fritzler
{ mid(a)auk.cx, afritz(a)iname.com}
http://www.auk.cx/~mid/
"Behold the power of cheese." -- National Dairy Council
>I just got a box of doc's today in the mail, and I'm totally fascinated by
>two of them. They're nicely done copies!?!? They have semi-heavy cream
>coloured covers with the actual cover xeroxed onto them, and the pages are
>xeroxes, but the right size. They're bound with the spiral plastic things.
>Does anyone know what the story is with these? Are these copies that DEC
>made, or did a 3rd party go to this much trouble?
If you order out-of-print manuals from DEC (err, Compaq) today, they
run Xeroxes off from originals - there's a special name for the facility
they use to do this, but I can't remember it at the moment. The
resulting document sounds very much like what you're describing.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
