On Jun 25, 11:45, Sellam Ismail wrote:
> :: On Jun 25, 10:37, Arfon Gryffydd wrote:
> > ::Can anyone tell me what DOS (name and version) works with an Apple
//e
> Actually, it can run any version of DOS (3.2 or 3.3) but for 3.2 you need
> the 3.2 controller.
Um, Sellam, are you sure you've not got 3.2/3.3 compatibility round the
wrong way? The P5A and P6A PROMs that came on Disk ][ cards sold with DOS
3.3 (16-sector) can also handle the encoding used for DOS 3.2 (13-sector),
but P5 and P6 PROMs supplied with Disk ][ cards can't handle the encoding
used by DOS 3.3. There are a very few exceptions related to copy protected
disks, of course, which is why some of us had switchable cards.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
Hello, I'm trying to netboot my Sun 3/60 (from my Linux box). None of the
HOWTOs I can find are very clear on how to do this. I've recompiled my
kernel for rarp and nfs. My ethernet card works (00:00:C0:73:50:52) and my
Sun is 8:0:20:6:10:35. When I try to run a command like /sbin/rarp -s
192.168.1.10 8:0:20:6:10:35 I get the error: SIOCSRARP: Network is
unreachable . Any ideas? I think I have the correct kernel for the Sun,
but that shouldn't matter -- it should at least try to talk to my Linux
box, right? When I do >b le() on my Sun, it says
Boot: le(0,0,0)
Reqesting Internet address for 8:0:20:6:10:35
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Kevin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's you isn't it? THE BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL!"
"In the flesh, on the phone and in your account..."
-- BOFH #3
I wrote a while ago about Russian microcomputers. A couple of days ago I received my first two, and throught I'd write a brief description to the list.
"Microsha"
Appears to be a (souped-up) Spectrum clone in functionality, but looks totally different. Quite cool, actually... Keyboard unit in dirty yellow (Atari 800-style colour and basic appearance) but much flatter (about 1.5" thick). Red and blue keys in a really weird cyrillic layout.
Each key has two labels, shown in pairs here. Many of the Cyrillic letters are unreproducible in ASCII, so I'll enclose a best guess in [...] The first of the pair is the TOP marking on a key, the second is the lower marking.
Top row:
(;+) (1!) (2") (3#) (4[circle with 4 prongs]) (5%) (6&) (7[triangle]) (8[left bracket]) (9[right bracket]) (0) (-=) (red: cyrillic [GT]) (red: cyrillic [AR2])
row 2
([backward n with accent][right square bracket]) ([CH]C) (yU) (KK) (EE) (HN) ([G]G) ([sch][left square bracket??]) ([sc??][right square bracket??]) ([zh]Z) (XH) (:*) (red: [PS]) (red: [VK])
row 3
(red: yC) ([ph]F) ([bI]Y) ([B]W) (AA) ([P]P) ([R]R) (OO) ([L]L) ([D]D) ([??V]V) ([3]\) (.>) (red: PyC LAT)
row 4
(red: [HP]) ([backward R]Q) ([sort of y]^) ([C]S) (MM) ([bacward N]I) (TT) ([b]X) ([b with bar]B) ([circle with half plus]@) (,<) (/?) ([b with bar overhang left]_)
row 5
two small space keys for left/right thumb.
Keyboard has a "keypad" section at right, with contents
left diagonal up arrow, F1, F2
left arrow, up arrow, right arrow
F3, f4, f5
down arrow, CTP
What a bizarre organization!!!
Keys are i correct positions - size differences confirm this.
anyway, the gist of it is that the keyboard isn't QWERTY, but more like CUKENG
It looks so very alien. Weight: abot 2lbs at a guess.
Unit has an expansion interface at back (RAM?) which plugs in at right angles (ie: a bit like a cart slot on an Atari 800, again). Several other interface ports on back, the most interesting is a square unit simply marked (interface 2) with a 3 x 10 female connector.
I have the manuals and power supply for this machine. I'll do a picture if there's any interest.
I also have about ten cassette tapes of original software for this one.
The other machine is a PDP-11 processor-clone machine called BK-0010
It's in original box, with all documentation. More about that later, if there's any interest.
Cheers
A
Well good! I was wondering what to do with these, so, knowing that I don't
have to feel I should gouge someone for them, I can give them away.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Saturday, June 26, 1999 5:34 AM
Subject: RE: 8" floppy media with 32 hard sectors
>>I see there are floppy diskettes being auctioned off on eBay. I =
>>remember too that there was some discussion about where one might get =
>>some hard-sectored diskettes. Well,folks, I have a box of new ones! =
>>Though the box was ruined, the plastic bag inside protected the media, =
>>so they were undamaged by the moisture which got in due to a damaged =
>>shrink-wrap on the box. =20
>
>You know, it isn't that hard to find these (despite what everyone seems
>to claim.) Take a look at http://www.athana.com/, specifically at part
>number 47-0801 on the "diskettes" page :-).
>
>Tim.
>has anyone seen the movie 'Three Days of the Condor'? there are many
>computers shown. the only one i think i can identify is an Imsai with a
>tape drive (?).
Heh heh - talk about misidentification. That's a PDP-8 with DECTape drives!
Since when did Imsai's have orange and burnt amber front panels with
light bulbs? :-)
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
>>I see there are floppy diskettes being auctioned off on eBay. I =
>>remember too that there was some discussion about where one might get =
>>some hard-sectored diskettes. Well,folks, I have a box of new ones! =
>>Though the box was ruined, the plastic bag inside protected the media, =
>>so they were undamaged by the moisture which got in due to a damaged =
>>shrink-wrap on the box. =20
>You know, it isn't that hard to find these (despite what everyone seems
>to claim.) Take a look at http://www.athana.com/, specifically at part
>number 47-0801 on the "diskettes" page :-).
And if you don't mind paying a lot more than Athana charges, you can go
to http://store.imation.com/ and select 8" SS-DD-32-W/WP, 8" DS-DD-32-W/WP,
or the 8" SS-SD-32-W/WP.
Tim.
>I see there are floppy diskettes being auctioned off on eBay. I =
>remember too that there was some discussion about where one might get =
>some hard-sectored diskettes. Well,folks, I have a box of new ones! =
>Though the box was ruined, the plastic bag inside protected the media, =
>so they were undamaged by the moisture which got in due to a damaged =
>shrink-wrap on the box. =20
You know, it isn't that hard to find these (despite what everyone seems
to claim.) Take a look at http://www.athana.com/, specifically at part
number 47-0801 on the "diskettes" page :-).
Tim.
has anyone seen the movie 'Three Days of the Condor'? there are many
computers shown. the only one i think i can identify is an Imsai with a
tape drive (?). there are a few others that i can't identify. one
(cast iron?)big blue punch card machine; one black face, white case
terminal with white keys; a teletype and another disassembled computer
Redford was looking into. there are glimpses of others, but those are
the ones i noticed.
I see there are floppy diskettes being auctioned off on eBay. I remember too that there was some discussion about where one might get some hard-sectored diskettes. Well,folks, I have a box of new ones! Though the box was ruined, the plastic bag inside protected the media, so they were undamaged by the moisture which got in due to a damaged shrink-wrap on the box.
Anyone interested?
Dick
In a message dated 6/25/99 5:48:01 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com writes:
> On Jun 25, 11:45, Sellam Ismail wrote:
> > :: On Jun 25, 10:37, Arfon Gryffydd wrote:
> > > ::Can anyone tell me what DOS (name and version) works with an Apple
> //e
>
> > Actually, it can run any version of DOS (3.2 or 3.3) but for 3.2 you need
> > the 3.2 controller.
>
> Um, Sellam, are you sure you've not got 3.2/3.3 compatibility round the
> wrong way? The P5A and P6A PROMs that came on Disk ][ cards sold with DOS
> 3.3 (16-sector) can also handle the encoding used for DOS 3.2 (13-sector),
> but P5 and P6 PROMs supplied with Disk ][ cards can't handle the encoding
> used by DOS 3.3. There are a very few exceptions related to copy protected
> disks, of course, which is why some of us had switchable cards.
>
I've got several disks from apple called BASICS that will allow a dos3.3
system to boot up and manipulate dos 3.2 disks. The only dos3.2 disk I've
ever seen was/is a diagnostic disk from call-APPLE that i got in a box of
materials i got from someone. Prodos can be used with any apple ][ with 64k
and an autostart rom. There is a bug in version 1.1.1 that can trash track 0
but I've never had it happen. Later versions do not have this problem. I
think it's prodos version 1.8 (or is it 2.0) that won't run on a ][+ anymore.
Forwarded from comp.sys.3b1. Contact the owner directly.
Joe
In comp.sys.3b1, John Isenhour <isenhour(a)uiuc.edu> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Been off the list for a long time. My free space has just shrunk
>(girlfriend induced:) and I need to retire my trusty 3b1/7300
>collection. There is almost too much
>stuff to mention, I got a lot of it from George who worked at ATT and
>had a warehouse fulla new stuff (if anyone here was on the list that far
>back)
>
>I have a 3b1 (4 MB) with the p5 upgrade and larger disk, my main
>machine,
>this is loaded to the gills with about all the hardware and software
>the old gang could help me stuff into it over the years.
>Downside - the battery is dead
>
>otherwize...
>several new in box 7300's (opened, tested, reboxed)
>several shrink wrapped system doc/software sets
>several new keyboards, also some 3b1 and 7300 mildly used ones
>memory cards
>ethernet cards
>hard disks, several, from 70 mb to 10mb
>ethernet mau's 2, (converts 15 pin ethernet to BnC connector)
>two tape drives and some tapes
>external expansion box (good for everything but memory)
>telebit t-1600 and a trailblazer modem
>serial cards
>some other cards I have forgotten what they do (voice card maybe?)
>extra power supplies
>an extra fan or so
>extra motherboards
>a few of the wd2010 controller chips
>Probably more stuff in storage I have forgotten about.
>
>I will probably move this stuff at a yard sale in two weeks, to people
>at
>the university here (UIUC). If there are any diehard unixpc types that
>are
>interested in maintaining their equipment or getting backup stuff (is
>why
>I collected so much) no reasonable offer will be refused. I would like
>to
>see this stuff get a nice home.
>
>cheers,
>john
>isenhour(a)uiuc.edu
>
>
I have a two-board Q-bus Controller for 8" hard disks. Having no use for
same, and not wishing to "go there" I'm hoping someone in this group is
curious enough to send me $6.20 for postage via USPS Priority mail, as I
don't think they'll make the 2-lb limit, being fully loaded enough to have
no identifying silkscreen markings to indicate who made them.
Any takers?
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, June 04, 1999 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: Formatting disk on rt11
>>>Alternatively, if you have a VS2000, it has a RQDX3-compabitle
>>> formatter built into it.
>
>>I just formatted the disk in a MVII with the diagnostic tape.
>
>Or - maybe you didn't :-(. The MVII diagnostics are worse than useless.
>
>>>What error message do you get when you try DIR DU0: ? If it's a
>>>"?DIR-F-Error reading directory",
>
>>I still get this one ...
>
>Then you didn't format the RD54 successfully. The best you can hope
>for with the MVII diagnostics is to turn an already formatted RD54
>into a formatted RD54. The worst that can happen is that you
>lose an already existing format.
>
>Let me know what media it'd be useful to you on, and I'll get you a
>bootable XXDP disk/pack/cart/tape with ZRQC?? on it.
>
>>.INIT Du0:
>>DU0: Initialize are you sure ?Y
>>?DUP-F-Size function failed
>
>Yep - you need to really reformat the disk, as opposed to what the MVII
>diagnosics do. And congratulations on actually posting the command
>you used and the error message that resulted!! If only everyone else
>on the list could do the same, it'd be a much nicer world!!
>
>--
> Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
> Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
> 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
> Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
Header says it all... If you have to ask, you probably can't help... B^}
If you have one that needs a new home, drop me a note with what you're
looking for... ($, trade, favours, etc...)
[please, no "I just put one up on ePay..." notes]
-jim
---
jimw(a)computergarage.org
The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
You wouldn't happen to have any spare keycaps for those, would you? I've
got an ADM-3A that's missing a couple. Not where the terminal is right now,
so I can't say which for sure...
>
>I have a couple of Lear Siegler ADM-3A CRT terminals available
>for sale or trade. These are early models, with a board
>
Bill Richman
incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
(Home of the COSMAC Elf
microcomputer simulator!)
Yipee. So after only two steps in the "clutch trip area" adjustment pages
I've restored "normal" operation to the reader. Per the manual I loosened
the armature extender, rotated the typing unit to the "stop position" and
adjusted the extender for the correct distance (page 7, adjustment RRA-2)
and once complete the reader returned to normal function. The bulk of the
problem was, as Tony surmised, that the arm was now too far forward which
did not allow the linkage to "catch" when the reader was turned off. Once
adjusted the reader starts and stops under switch control.
Now to hook this puppy up to the 8/E and see what I can make it do!
(acutally eventually I'll get to the point where I read in FOCAL-8 but for
now the TTY test loop would be just peachy thankyou very much.
--Chuck
Can anyone tell me what DOS (name and version) works with an Apple //e and
where I can get a copy?
Thanks,
A
----------------------------------------
Tired of Micro$oft???
Move up to a REAL OS...
######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ #
#####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /##
####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /###
###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |####
##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|####
# ######
("LINUX" for those of you
without fixed-width fonts)
----------------------------------------
Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com
Slackware Mailing List:
http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html
Ok, here is one for the true wireheads among us.
I finally got some time to start working on the PDP-8/i in my collection,
and started keying in some test programs with the intent of getting the
timing on the TTY interface tweaked in so I could load some serious
software, and found that the old beast seems to have an odd problem.
See if anyone has hit on this one and has a suggestion...
I can't seem to write into location 0 on any memory field?!?
Regardless of what I write into the location, it always reads back as
0000.
I can write into any other location, and all of the primary logic
functions seem to be ok... (I can load/run programs as long as they don't
need location 0)
The 'write all zeros' test program (that org's at location 4) runs as
expected...
Thots, suggestions, comments, eek!?!
-jim
---
jimw(a)computergarage.org
The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
>>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives
>>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live!
Hello all:
Does anyone have use for the above 5.25" drive?
We recently obtained a pile of junk, er, highly collectible computer crap,
and this drive was in it -- still attached to its Boat Anchor (PS/2 80).
If you are interested, reply by private e-mail with an offer, and we'll try
to fire it -- and the Boat Anchor -- up to determine its condition.
Cosmetically, it's perfect.
Regards,
Glen Goodwin
ACME Enterprises
0/0
In a message dated 6/24/99 1:48:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ware(a)xtal.pharm.nwu.edu writes:
> Could the Brazilian Sinclair clone phenomenon be related to Timex Computer
> Corportation's presence in Portugal? Many of the Timex/Sinclair computers
> sold in the USA were manufactured by Timex of Portugal, and the systems
> apparently remained popular in Portugal after Timex pulled out of the US
> market. If this was the case, then there may have been a ready supply of
> Portugese-language software and documentation for Sinclair clones, making
> them a reasonable choice for cloning in other Portugese-speaking
> countries.
Very interesting theory! I'll have to check with my firends in Portugal &
Brazil.
>
> Speaking of rubber-keyed ZX81 clones, Timex made such a beast for the US
> market - the Timex/Sinclair 1500. It's essentially a ZX81 with 16K of RAM
> in a Spectrum case. I have a picture of one at
>
> http://www.corestack.com/classic/machines/ts1500.html
Please -- the TS1500 case is nothing like the Spectrum case, except for the
rubber keys.
0/0
Glen Goodwin
Are the manuals in Russian or english?
-Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Davie <adavie(a)mad.scientist.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 1:52 PM
Subject: Russian computers in hand :)))
I wrote a while ago about Russian microcomputers. A couple of days ago I received my first two, and throught I'd write a brief description to the list.
"Microsha"
Appears to be a (souped-up) Spectrum clone in functionality, but looks totally different. Quite cool, actually... Keyboard unit in dirty yellow (Atari 800-style colour and basic appearance) but much flatter (about 1.5" thick). Red and blue keys in a really weird cyrillic layout.
Each key has two labels, shown in pairs here. Many of the Cyrillic letters are unreproducible in ASCII, so I'll enclose a best guess in [...] The first of the pair is the TOP marking on a key, the second is the lower marking.
Top row:
(;+) (1!) (2") (3#) (4[circle with 4 prongs]) (5%) (6&) (7[triangle]) (8[left bracket]) (9[right bracket]) (0) (-=) (red: cyrillic [GT]) (red: cyrillic [AR2])
row 2
([backward n with accent][right square bracket]) ([CH]C) (yU) (KK) (EE) (HN) ([G]G) ([sch][left square bracket??]) ([sc??][right square bracket??]) ([zh]Z) (XH) (:*) (red: [PS]) (red: [VK])
row 3
(red: yC) ([ph]F) ([bI]Y) ([B]W) (AA) ([P]P) ([R]R) (OO) ([L]L) ([D]D) ([??V]V) ([3]\) (.>) (red: PyC LAT)
row 4
(red: [HP]) ([backward R]Q) ([sort of y]^) ([C]S) (MM) ([bacward N]I) (TT) ([b]X) ([b with bar]B) ([circle with half plus]@) (,<) (/?) ([b with bar overhang left]_)
row 5
two small space keys for left/right thumb.
Keyboard has a "keypad" section at right, with contents
left diagonal up arrow, F1, F2
left arrow, up arrow, right arrow
F3, f4, f5
down arrow, CTP
What a bizarre organization!!!
Keys are i correct positions - size differences confirm this.
anyway, the gist of it is that the keyboard isn't QWERTY, but more like CUKENG
It looks so very alien. Weight: abot 2lbs at a guess.
Unit has an expansion interface at back (RAM?) which plugs in at right angles (ie: a bit like a cart slot on an Atari 800, again). Several other interface ports on back, the most interesting is a square unit simply marked (interface 2) with a 3 x 10 female connector.
I have the manuals and power supply for this machine. I'll do a picture if there's any interest.
I also have about ten cassette tapes of original software for this one.
The other machine is a PDP-11 processor-clone machine called BK-0010
It's in original box, with all documentation. More about that later, if there's any interest.
Cheers
A
Presumably this was a hoax as the site has been disabled, and the NIC
record for WOZ.ORG indicates that it was simply a host record (rather than
a domain) and not related to Wozniak at all.
--Chuck
At 08:10 AM 6/24/99 -0700, you wrote:
>With all of the avid Slashdot readers here, how did this not get posted?
>Or is my mail server dropping messages?
>
>Anyway, if there's anyone who hasn't seen it yet, this page has a bunch of
>Woz's replies to email questions about the show:
>
>http://www.woz.org/woz/commets.html
>
>I just tried it again and the site seems to be Slashdotted at the
>moment (funny, it worked fine around 3am!). Along with reasserting that he
>was the only real engineer of the bunch, he says that though the show may
>have taken liberties with hard facts, that the personalities were captured
>perfectly.
>
>Aaron
>
At 21:05 20/06/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Sorry, but I'm not in Europe... wish I was in England, but that's another
>story..
No need to excuse ;)
I thought you were talking about Milford near London (he,he :)
It can easyly happen, considering the number of city that are present on the
two continents..
Anyway, again I would like to receive news from all the subscriber
concerning the "BEST
HAMFEST/FLEAMARKET" or VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVALS referring to the presence
of vintage computing of theyr country, (possibly with the date) with no
"continental" restrictions.
This will allow us to have a list of places around the world to be visited.
I think that many times happen that one of these HAmfest are happening in
the country I'm visiting, and I don't take the chance to visit this just
beacuse I ignore it (that for a vintage collector is something bad).
So, please report wich are the most important dates: If the idea is
interesting also someone else, we could post the results on the web,
similarly we have done with the CCC list.
Comments are welcome!
Ciao
Riccardo
Riccardo Romagnoli
<chemif(a)mbox.queen.it>
I-47100 Forl?
Thre is no "original" Apple 1 case.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Maginnis [mailto:celt@chisp.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 11:47 AM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: 70's sheet metal cases
Well, I think I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one - the
motherboard itself was mounted on a square of sheet metal which was
screwed into a real wood casing. Extra pieces of sheet metal were added
to the inside of later versions of the Apple 1 to improve durability and
lifespan, but the case itself was wood, not metal. If the Apple 1
featured in those pics has a metal case with contact paper stuck over
it, then it's a replica, not an original.
Mike
Bill Sudbrink wrote:
>
> > The case is actually wood, not sheet metal.
>
> The main body of the case (where the keyboard
> is mounted) is _SHEET_METAL_ covered with wood
> grain contact paper. _NOT_WOOD_. It looks very
> much like a SOL case and somewhat like a C4P case.
<>On a more serious note, I looked inside and there was:
<> A Z-80 cpu card.
<> 2 cards with 512K on them and were labled Disk something.
<
<Well, then, these are your disk controller(s). The "something" that
<comes after Disk is very important in identifying them!
Likely 512k Mdrive (ramdisk) really nice and quite a speed up for cpm.
<> A wire wrapped (home-brew looking) card that looks like the 8" drive
<>interface.
<What makes you think that it's the 8" drive interface? Look for the 50-pi
<cable coming from the drive box and figure out where it's going.
Could be anything...
<
<> Another card covered with 6116 Ram chips.
<
<32 6116's gives you 64Kbytes, a comfortable amount for running CP/M-80.
<Your description matches that of the Compupro RAM17, though lots of
<of other manufacturers made similar boards that might be in your system.
Ram16, ram17 there were other vendows with comparable cards.
Allison
Bring your copy of "A History of the Personal Computer" to VCF 3.0 so
you can get it signed by Stan Veit.
Also, Jon Titus, Horst Zuse (son of Konrad Zuse), and more.
Stay tuned for details.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 05/25/99]
Sam said:
>Its a "story" (fictional) about the early days of Apple vs. Microsoft. I
>don't even want to talk about it really. Just know it was horrible in
>every way possible.
>If anyone dares to pipe up and say they actually liked it I swear to you I
>will unleash such a torrent of rage upon thee so please don't. Keep it to
>yourself for your own good.
Ligh-en up Sam! It's not the Learning Channel and it's not the History
Channel. It's Turner, and they just colorized history a little. Partly
to keep the audience interested and partly to squeeze it all into 2 hours.
I enjoyed all of the scenes that take place in Albuquerque. (MITS, the
hookers, Bill getting arrested). :)
You just have to remember that not everyone on this list lives here in
California. In other places it not considered polite to tell people what
they can't think, what they can't say. :)
--Doug
=========================================
Doug Coward
Press Start Inc.
Sunnyvale,CA
=========================================
<>There are only three voltages on the bus, +8VDC, +12VDC, and -12VDC, whic
<>in reality are usually closer to +10~12VDC, +16~18VDC, and -14~18VDC.
A good way to soft start a old powersupply that is also short safe is a
100-200W 110v (or equivalent for other countries) in SERIES with the
110v power. If the supply is shorted you will get a bright light,
if it's ok it will Dim gradually or quickly to a dull glow or less.
Works well for forming caps that arent totally gone.
It's cheap and easy to make.
Whille the lamp is in series with the source you can check the unloaded
powersupply voltages, if the look good you can use an auto 12V bulb for a
1A load or a headlight for a 5-8a load.
Allison
>I wonder if you could cast one using that stuff that classic car
>restorers use to make rubber parts [an aside : Anyone know where to get
>that in the UK?]. Making the mould would be fairly easy, I think.
I always carved new ones out of pink rubber erasers, and they seemed
to work fine for me.
Tim.
<Well, I think I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one - the
<motherboard itself was mounted on a square of sheet metal which was
<screwed into a real wood casing. Extra pieces of sheet metal were added
<to the inside of later versions of the Apple 1 to improve durability and
<lifespan, but the case itself was wood, not metal. If the Apple 1
<featured in those pics has a metal case with contact paper stuck over
<it, then it's a replica, not an original.
Many that were bought as boards and cased elsewhere. The Apple 1 was the
first of the fairly complete machines (one or multiple board). The apple
II ( or ][) was significant in the construction including the molded case.
Allison
Well, much to my amazement, at lunch today, I got
an IMSAI 8080. In beautiful condition, a few small
scratches, almost no dust. Hasn't been up in years.
I know we've done this before on this list, but...
Where should I start?
I figure:
1) pull all cards.
2) attach dummy load and check PS voltage
and amperage.
(What is an appropriate dummy load?)
3) check front panel mechanically. Use an
OHMmeter to be sure that all switches are
opening and closing correctly? I seem to
remember that some people said that front
panel disassembly/assembly is tricky.
4) install CPU and see if it "lights up"?
Thanks,
Bill Sudbrink
>Thre is no "original" Apple 1 case
Right! We had 5 of them, no cases and the thing was a kit! Oh God, why did
we get rid of them? We mounted them behind a wall with cut-outs for
monitors and a shelf for keyboards and charged kids, mostly adults, to play
breakout etc. Sold a lot of computers that way. "Hey kid, do you know that
is a computer, and you can buy one for your own?"
Symptom: Print quality degrading on the ASR-33.
Analysis: Black tar like substance coating the print head apparently
originating on the print hammer.
I didn't look closely but was part #180502 the print head formerly made of
black rubber? Seems like it.
--Chuck
I once found a handy gadget for seeking adjacent line shorts on the S-100.
It's essentially a board with the edge connector and little else, except
that the pins on one side are connected. Since the lines tend to be laid
out alternating from one side to the other, your audible squeaker will allow
you to test one side at a time with the "other" probe tide to the opposite
side. Finding shorts is really quick and easy with this. It's easy make,
though several vendors sold them at one time. Fortunately, it's built
without the part of the board which would prevent you from reversing it, so
you can do just that. An unaltered board with the connections on one side
shorted wouldn't quite work due to the mechanical offset which prevents you
>from reversing a board.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: James Willing <jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: Just scored an IMSAI
>On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Bill Sudbrink wrote:
>
>> Well, much to my amazement, at lunch today, I got
>> an IMSAI 8080...
>
>Congradulations!
>
>> Where should I start?
>>
>> I figure:
>>
>> 1) pull all cards.
>
>Yep... Then I frequently do a quick 'shorts' check on the S-100 backplane
>before proceeding. Take a ohmmeter on a low resistance setting and step
>across the opposing pins with the leads. Start on pin 3, pin 53, then pin
>4, pin 53, then pin 4, pin 54, and onward across the backplane. This will
>quickly catch any adjacent line shorts. You may also reverse the stepping
>sequence in case the backplane is an oddball and the lines are interleaved
>differently.
>
>Skip pins 1,2,51,52,50, and 100, since these are the power supply pins and
>will give readings back thru the power supply components.
>
>(note: pins 1/51 = +8VDC, pin 2 = +12VDC, pin 52 = -12VDC pins 50/100 =
>GND)
>
>> 2) attach dummy load and check PS voltage
>> and amperage.
>> (What is an appropriate dummy load?)
>
>Well... (and I'll probably catch some heat for this) since the IMSAI
>supply is an unregulated linear supply (regulation is done on each
>individual S-100 card), a 'dummy load' is not really necessary for a basic
>check. (switching supplies need a load or they get unhappy)
>
>There are only three voltages on the bus, +8VDC, +12VDC, and -12VDC, which
>in reality are usually closer to +10~12VDC, +16~18VDC, and -14~18VDC.
>
>With the cards out, you can check these with a voltmeter. Now, where you
>may want to load things up a bit is for a 'ripple' test. (looking for
>bad/leaky capacitors &/or bad rectifier stacks. Although a bad recifier
>will often cause the line fuse to blow)
>
>Depending on the amperage rating of the supply, (the IMSAI is a honker!) I
>have a bank of automobile lamps (headlights for high amp, taillights for
>lower). I gang these together for the appropriate voltage/amperage
>ratings and 'light it up'! (pun intended) Then you can look for odd sags
>in the voltage, and if you have a 'scope look for ripple on the suppliy
>lines.
>
>> 3) check front panel mechanically. Use an
>> OHMmeter to be sure that all switches are
>> opening and closing correctly? I seem to
>> remember that some people said that front
>> panel disassembly/assembly is tricky.
>
>Not THAT complicated, but there are LOTS of screws, spacers, etc...
>
>Usually I just do a 'click' check on the switches, (toggle them and
>listen. Bad ones will often make either a muffled sound or no sound at
>all), and then do a function test once the panel and CPU boards are
>plugged in.
>
>> 4) install CPU and see if it "lights up"?
>
>After a final 'visual' check for bad/damaged/improperly installed
>components, etc...
>
>Ever onward! YMMV!!
>
>Regards;
>-jim
>---
>jimw(a)computergarage.org
>The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org
>Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
>
>>>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives
>
>>>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live!
>
-----Original Message-----
From: allisonp(a)world.std.com <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 6:28 AM
Subject: Re: More on the Compupro
>
>On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote:
>
>> I've been watching this thread with some interest, as I'm curious how
large
>> a board with 512Kbytes in 4116's would be. I've got some boards
downstairs
>> which have sites for 288 4116's on each. That's 576KB, though it's
>> organized as 64-bit words with off-board SECDED which makes it 512 KBytes
>
>The board in question obviously has 4164s on it or it's only 1/4 the size
>indicated.
>
That's what I concluded as well, though the originator of this thread has
said at least once they were 4116's. I'e got an 8MB "ramdisk" board I built
back in about '85 when the 256k's were new. This board is populated with a
few LSI samples I got, together with a 4MBx18 section literally hacked (with
a bandsaw) from a client's application circuit and tacked to the S-100
board. The packages were the "zip" package, which allowed for pretty dense
layout. If I ever find this circuit again, I intend to rework the logic,
since the memory is actually organized 1MBx72 bits, and I have a
now-obsolete LSI from TI, the 74AS6364A, which is a gigantic LSI used to
perform SECDED. Since it corrects and propagates in only 10 ns, I want to
build in a hardware error scrubbing circuit and maybe a battery backup
scheme. The board's still more than half empty, since the memory is on two
mezzanine boards. - Dick
>
>Compupro made a M-drive, a 512k ram disk using 4164 devices. I have one
>of these and it works quite well.
>
>Allison
>
>
I can grab a big Compro (model:?) computer that the junk guys says is a
S100 computer. it includes two 8" drives.
Anyone know anything about this box?
----------------------------------------
Tired of Micro$oft???
Move up to a REAL OS...
######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ #
#####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /##
####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /###
###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |####
##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|####
# ######
("LINUX" for those of you
without fixed-width fonts)
----------------------------------------
Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com
Slackware Mailing List:
http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html
>>http://www.woz.org/woz/commets.html
>Presumably this was a hoax as the site has been disabled, and the NIC
>record for WOZ.ORG indicates that it was simply a host record (rather than
>a domain) and not related to Wozniak at all.
It's a real site, and really is Woz's, but it appears to be "down"
(possibly from overloading):
$ whois woz.org
[No name] (WOZ-HST) WOZ.ORG 209.76.144.2
UNUSON (WOZ-DOM) WOZ.ORG
$ whois woz-hst
[No name] (WOZ-HST)
Hostname: WOZ.ORG
Address: 209.76.144.2
System: ? running ?
Coordinator:
Wozniak, Steve (SW70) steve(a)WOZ.ORG
(408) 354-5000 (FAX) (408) 354-8999
$ whois woz-dom
Registrant:
UNUSON (WOZ-DOM)
16400 Blackberry Hill Road
Los Gatos, CA 95030
US
Domain Name: WOZ.ORG
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Wozniak, Steve (SW70) steve(a)WOZ.ORG
(408) 354-5000 (FAX) (408) 354-8999
Billing Contact:
Harvey, Carlos (CH1750) carlos(a)WOZ.ORG
(408) 354-5000 (FAX) (408) 354-5000
Record last updated on 07-Apr-99.
Record created on 27-May-94.
Database last updated on 23-Jun-99 08:35:41 EDT.
Domain servers in listed order:
WOZ.ORG 209.76.144.2
NS1.PBI.NET 206.13.28.11
Tim.
>Thanks, how about a generic answer more like this:
> "It is probably an S-100."
> "Open it and look for:"
> "XXXX Processor.. this is a CP/M machine."
> "XXXX Processor.. This is a Super-whammodyne-OS machine."
> "A Blah blah card."
Life with S-100 boxes is a bit more complicated. Machines rarely kept
their original factory configuration... and it was not uncommon to
find every board in the machine made by a different company.
With Compupro stuff, there are 5 main lines:
1. "Disk n" disk controllers, n=1, 1A, 1B, 2, 3, or 4.
2. "CPU nn" CPU cards, nn=85/88, Z, etc.
3. "Interfacer n" I/O boards, n=1 to 4
4. "System Support" boards, with real time clock, console port, etc.
5. "RAM nn" boards, nn usually greater than 16.
There are many other less common Compupro boards, like their video
controllers, etc.
Of course, there were literally *thousands* of S-100 manufacturers,
and the above list only helps if you know you're dealing with Compupro
stuff.
>On a more serious note, I looked inside and there was:
> A Z-80 cpu card.
> 2 cards with 512K on them and were labled Disk something.
Well, then, these are your disk controller(s). The "something" that
comes after Disk is very important in identifying them!
The "512K" sounds like a Compupro board etch identifier, but I just
looked over my Compupro Disk 1's, 1A's, Disk 2's, and Disk 3's, and
none of them say 512K. Maybe it's a Disk 1B? Disk 4?
> A wire wrapped (home-brew looking) card that looks like the 8" drive
>interface.
What makes you think that it's the 8" drive interface? Look for the 50-pin
cable coming from the drive box and figure out where it's going.
> Another card covered with 6116 Ram chips.
32 6116's gives you 64Kbytes, a comfortable amount for running CP/M-80.
Your description matches that of the Compupro RAM17, though lots of
of other manufacturers made similar boards that might be in your system.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
I was just channel surfing and ran across Ghostbusters on STARZ... in their
lab, they have a clearly visible Cromemco System One with a C-10 acting as a
terminal! Totally cool.
I wonder if anybody's ever put together an "old micros spotted in movies"
list.
Kai
Bravo manual, page 33, "Bravo is controlled partly from the keyboard and
partly from the mouse, the small white object with three black buttons which
sits to the right of the keyboard".
Also: "The three buttons on the mouse are called RED (the top or left-most
one, depending on what kind of mouse you have), YELLOW (the middle one) and
BLUE (the bottom or right-most one)."
This implies that there were at least two mouse designs, one with three
buttons from left to right, and one with three buttons from top to bottom.
They both used a ball (not wheels).
Kai
-----Original Message-----
From: Innfogra(a)aol.com [mailto:Innfogra@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 2:50 AM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Alto Mouse in "Pirates"
In "Pirates" a mouse was handed about, supposedly from the Alto. Was it an
Alto mouse? Was the Alto mouse a three button? Who made it?
I know the star 8010 Dandelion and 6085 Daybreak mice were two button mice
as
I have had several.
Anyway I have a mouse that looks like the one in the movie and it is
possible
it came from an Alto. I would like to identify it for sure.
Paxton
Did anyone else follow the link in the WIRED Apple 1 article?
It goes here:
http://www.grin.net/~cturley/gsezine/GS.WorldView/*APPLE.HISTORY/
Does anyone know the origin of this case? The color and
general style of the sheet metal look about right for some
OSI boxes. It also has a SOL-ish quality.
Were there one or two sheet metal shops doing the cases for
most computers in the mid-to-late 70's?
I've sent this question off to the ex-OSI engineer I know, but
he will probably take a couple of weeks to respond.
Bill Sudbrink
With all of the avid Slashdot readers here, how did this not get posted?
Or is my mail server dropping messages?
Anyway, if there's anyone who hasn't seen it yet, this page has a bunch of
Woz's replies to email questions about the show:
http://www.woz.org/woz/commets.html
I just tried it again and the site seems to be Slashdotted at the
moment (funny, it worked fine around 3am!). Along with reasserting that he
was the only real engineer of the bunch, he says that though the show may
have taken liberties with hard facts, that the personalities were captured
perfectly.
Aaron
Hi, Larry,
at 17:44 23/06/99 +0000, Larry wrote:
> You might try the International Amateur Radio Union listings at
>
>http://www.iaru.org/iaru-soc.html
>
>ciao larry
>lwalker(a)interlog.com
>
>Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page.
At the moment I'm going to attend the HAMFEST'99 (HAMRADIO+HAMTRONICS+BEER?)
that will be held fm 25 to 27/06 in Friedrichshafen (a place very close to
Switzerland and Austria borders).
Seems that this is nerly the bigger HAM-FLEAMARKET convention in EU..
Maybe Hans can tell something more about that and the VINTAGE COMPUTERS
density inside...
Ciao!
Rick
Riccardo Romagnoli
<chemif(a)mbox.queen.it>
I-47100 Forl?
>I've been watching this thread with some interest, as I'm curious how large
>a board with 512Kbytes in 4116's would be. I've got some boards downstairs
>which have sites for 288 4116's on each. That's 576KB, though it's
>organized as 64-bit words with off-board SECDED which makes it 512 KBytes
>with correction. These boards are about 15"x22" which is quite a bit large
>for any of my S-100 boxes. The compupro boys often were fairly ambitious
>with their "features" and may have planned a different
>jumpering/multiplexing scheme for the power, addresses, etc, which were
>different once the 64K parts became available. However, considering what it
>took to make a memory board, even 64K parts would have left it a difficult
>task to fit all those DRAMs on the board, considering 1982 or so technology.
The M-Drive/H 512K's that I have are populated with 64 4164's (1982/1983
date codes) and the M-Drive/H 2MEG's that I have are populated with
64 41256's (1984 date codes). The DRAM's take up about 70% of the board,
with the remainder going to the Intel DRAM controller (8203), bus drivers,
PAL's, and regulators.
These boards were available partially populated, too.
These boards were not cheap when introduced; from old price lists,
they sold in the $5000-$8000 range fully populated.
> The Godbout boys were really
>not inclined to use the most costly technology available. Hence, I doubt
>the CompuPro board in question held 512K of 4116's.
I agree, it wouldn't be physically possible to put 512K of 4116's on a
single S100 board. But the Compupro folks had customers who were more
than willing to buy a S-100 board the price of a new car, and bought
the technology to do it with the denser DRAM's just becoming widely
available at the time.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
I've been watching this thread with some interest, as I'm curious how large
a board with 512Kbytes in 4116's would be. I've got some boards downstairs
which have sites for 288 4116's on each. That's 576KB, though it's
organized as 64-bit words with off-board SECDED which makes it 512 KBytes
with correction. These boards are about 15"x22" which is quite a bit large
for any of my S-100 boxes. The compupro boys often were fairly ambitious
with their "features" and may have planned a different
jumpering/multiplexing scheme for the power, addresses, etc, which were
different once the 64K parts became available. However, considering what it
took to make a memory board, even 64K parts would have left it a difficult
task to fit all those DRAMs on the board, considering 1982 or so technology.
I worked on a board from "little machines, inc" in '80 or so, which had on
it about 250 IC's including some of the first sipps I ever saw on one side
of the board (Multibus-1) and about 1000 passives and discretes on the other
side. I think the combined RAM on the board came up to 512K, though the
parts with which you could do that were not available. That board used
every modern LSI and space-preservation strategy available at the time, yet
was truly 10 pounds of SH*T in a 5-pound bag. The Godbout boys were really
not inclined to use the most costly technology available. Hence, I doubt
the CompuPro board in question held 512K of 4116's.
The question remains, "What is it?"
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 12:01 AM
Subject: RE: More on the Compupro
>On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Arfon Gryffydd wrote:
>
>> >1. "Disk n" disk controllers, n=1, 1A, 1B, 2, 3, or 4.
>> >2. "CPU nn" CPU cards, nn=85/88, Z, etc.
>> >3. "Interfacer n" I/O boards, n=1 to 4
>> >4. "System Support" boards, with real time clock, console port, etc.
>> >5. "RAM nn" boards, nn usually greater than 16.
>>
>> >>On a more serious note, I looked inside and there was:
>> >> A Z-80 cpu card.
>> >> 2 cards with 512K on them and were labled Disk something.
>> >
>> >Well, then, these are your disk controller(s). The "something" that
>> >comes after Disk is very important in identifying them!
>> >
>> >The "512K" sounds like a Compupro board etch identifier, but I just
>> >looked over my Compupro Disk 1's, 1A's, Disk 2's, and Disk 3's, and
>> >none of them say 512K. Maybe it's a Disk 1B? Disk 4?
>>
>> Nope... I suspected RAM disc cards because 512K is the AMOUNT of RAM I
>> counted (a board covered w/ 4116s). And there were no connectors to the
>> boards other than the card edge.
>> There are two of these mystery boards.
>
>SemiDisk, perhaps?
> - don
>
>>
>> >> A wire wrapped (home-brew looking) card that looks like the 8" drive
>> >>interface.
>> >
>> >What makes you think that it's the 8" drive interface? Look for the
50-pin
>> >cable coming from the drive box and figure out where it's going.
>>
>> Uh,I thought it was the drive interface because it had a 50pin cable
>> comming off it that matched the 50pin connection to the 8" drives box.
>>
>>
>> >> Another card covered with 6116 Ram chips.
>> >
>> >32 6116's gives you 64Kbytes, a comfortable amount for running CP/M-80.
>> >Your description matches that of the Compupro RAM17, though lots of
>> >of other manufacturers made similar boards that might be in your system.
>>
>> Yep, that sounds right.
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>> Tired of Micro$oft???
>>
>> Move up to a REAL OS...
>> ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ #
>> #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /##
>> ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /###
>> ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |####
>> ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|####
>> # ######
>> ("LINUX" for those of you
>> without fixed-width fonts)
>> ----------------------------------------
>> Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com
>>
>> Slackware Mailing List:
>> http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html
>>
>
>> >> 2 cards with 512K on them and were labled Disk something.
>> >
>> >Well, then, these are your disk controller(s). The "something" that
>> >comes after Disk is very important in identifying them!
>> >
>> >The "512K" sounds like a Compupro board etch identifier, but I just
>> >looked over my Compupro Disk 1's, 1A's, Disk 2's, and Disk 3's, and
>> >none of them say 512K. Maybe it's a Disk 1B? Disk 4?
>>
>> Nope... I suspected RAM disc cards because 512K is the AMOUNT of RAM I
>> counted (a board covered w/ 4116s). And there were no connectors to the
>> boards other than the card edge.
>> There are two of these mystery boards.
>
>SemiDisk, perhaps?
That certainly seems to be the idea, though I'm puzzled as to why the
board would say "Disk something" on it. All my Compupro ramdisk-type boards
say "M-Drive" on them.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
>I was recently told that DEC sold an RSX-11M emulator that run as a process
>on VMS for people who had old RSX code they wanted to run. Is this true?
Yes, it is. This is the start of the SPD (see
http://www.mentec.com/SPDS/vaxrsx.html for the whole thing):
SPD 26.73.08
VAX-11 RSX, Version 2.5 is a member of a family of operating system and other software products produced by
Mentec Inc. for the PDP-11 family of computers. It is available from Mentec Inc. or Digital Equipment
Corporation subject to a software license issued according to standard terms and conditions.
Description:
Overview
VAX-11 RSX is an emulator of the RSX Operating System family which executes on all VAX systems. VAX-11
RSX runs in compatibility mode on processors that support a PDP-11 instruction set subset in hardware or
microcode, and also runs on processors without this support by providing its own software emulation of the same
PDP-11 instruction set subset.
VAX-11 RSX provides special capabilities which enable PDP-11 users to develop programs for execution in the
following environments:
VMS compatibility mode (hardware-supported or software-emulated)
RSX-11M-PLUS
RSX-11M
RSX-11S
Micro/RSX
VAX-11 RSX also allows for the migration of many existing RSX applications to VMS.
>And if so is it part of the hobbiest license?
No, it isn't, though last time I checked it was part of the CSLG.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
In "Pirates" a mouse was handed about, supposedly from the Alto. Was it an
Alto mouse? Was the Alto mouse a three button? Who made it?
I know the star 8010 Dandelion and 6085 Daybreak mice were two button mice as
I have had several.
Anyway I have a mouse that looks like the one in the movie and it is possible
it came from an Alto. I would like to identify it for sure.
Paxton
GE Fanuc is a Japan based company which manufactures devices known in
the CNC field as a "control." It is essentially a computer which is used to
control the operation of machine tools, such as mills and lathes.
William R. Buckley
-----Original Message-----
From: Merle K. Peirce <at258(a)osfn.org>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 5:10 PM
Subject: Re:...
>
>We were just given a GE Fanuc case. Apparently it held some sort of hard
>drive, which has evaporated. Does anyone know what these things are?
