- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

In a message dated 08/19/1999 12:48:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com writes: > Our wholesaler sells cases with (crap) 250 watt power > >supplies for US$20, 250 watt (crap) power supplies by themselves for $19, > and > >(crap) replacement fans for $15. > > I believe the technical term for this would be crapitalism. Thanks for the wonderful term. I'm hereby stealing it, er, adding it to my vocabulary. > >Can anyone provide a clue as to why this is so? Basic economics suggests > >that it costs a *lot* more to produce a case w/psu than a psu alone -- > >likewise for the psu vs. the fan . . . > > People who try to sell good fans have to charge $35 - $40 for them. You and > I might say, "Gee, that's a damn nice fan, here's your $35." but 90% of the > people walk in and say "Hey man! Why are you tryin to rip me off with this > fan price, I can buy a whole case including a fan for that price!" To which > your only response, "Go buy it then and get out of my shop!" Guess what. > You won't sell enough to stay in business. Its called crapitalism. We sell cheap stuff for the chintzers and high quality items for our more discriminating customers. When someone assumes that we are a rip-off outfit because we sell some expensive (translate: high-quality) items I have no problem telling them to go to Circuit City. But it's still frustrating trying to convince some knucklehead that the higher quality component will probably last longer than *they* will . . . > The weird thing is that sometimes good stuff comes through the pipe. Fry's > had an $18/case deal that turned out to have a really nice PSU and case > inside. Didn't last though :-(. Yeah, we get lucky once in a while, too . . . Glen Goodwin 0/0

26 years, 11 months

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id this board? M3118-YA

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

The PMAX system has a board in it called a M3118-YA with two centronics like (but smaller) connectors. Anyone know what it is? --Chuck

26 years, 11 months

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imsai 2

by edick＠idcomm.com

If that sticks in your craw, go back and read my original statement. It's a fact that the fan alone costs $15 more than the case with the PSU with the fan in it. What's more, it appears nobody carries the fans as a stock item. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Glenatacme(a)aol.com <Glenatacme(a)aol.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, August 18, 1999 10:31 PM Subject: Re: imsai 2 >In a message dated 08/18/1999 10:20:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >edick(a)idcomm.com writes: > >> The unfortunate fact, Tony, is that here in the U.S, because people are >> accustomed to paying <$25 for a case with power supply (250 Watts is the >> rating) including shipping, it's hard to get vendors to stock replacement >> fans of any sort, let alone good and quiet ones. > >Man, that's a fact. Our wholesaler sells cases with (crap) 250 watt power >supplies for US$20, 250 watt (crap) power supplies by themselves for $19, and >(crap) replacement fans for $15. > >Can anyone provide a clue as to why this is so? Basic economics suggests >that it costs a *lot* more to produce a case w/psu than a psu alone -- >likewise for the psu vs. the fan . . . > >Glen Goodwin >0/0

26 years, 11 months

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suggestions on backplane cleaning? (or, HP2100 continued)

by nabil＠spiritone.com

On Tue, 3 Aug 1999, Jay West wrote: >One major problem with my 2100A has been solved (sort of). I had a card that >wouldn't work properly in a particular slot, finally got the bright idea to >move it to a different slot (I'm using polled mode, not interrupt, so this >is possible). The card works great. Problem solved? No..... > >In the troubleshooting process I noticed a few slots that no cards would >quite work right in. I checked the back of the backplane (it is a hand-wired >backplane), no loose wires, etc. After very close inspection of the >backplane slots, I determined the problem is the contacts are >dirty/corroded/whatever. I tried the best I could to clean the contacts >inside the slot, but this is virtually impossible. I also cleaned the card >edge with an eraser just to be sure. Bingo - card now works fine but only in >the cleaned slot (or one that worked previously). > >So, given that it's a delicate hand-wired backplane, does anyone have any >magic tricks for how to clean the gold contacts inside of the backplane edge >card connectors? I'm afraid to experiment and looking for wisdom... :) > >Thanks! > >Jay West Using an eraser is a no-no. See http://www.spiritone.com/~nabil/pdp8/tools.html (Tools for old computers) for a discussion of DeoxIT and PPE (polyphenyl ether). I have some more material on PPE from the manufacturer that will be added soon. If it's just dirty, something like Blue Shower/Tuner-wash followed by a PPE spray might do the trick. Look at the connectors in an unused socket, if you can see what look likes corrosion (green corrosion, purhaps) in little spots (sometime slightly raised), the connectors are hopelessly destroyed, it'll never be reliable again. That sort of electrolytic corrosion damage is very common (it's caused by microscopic defects in the plating (or people using erasers) and the metals migrating around), and short of replacing them, un-repairable. -- Aaron Nabil

26 years, 11 months

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More on that PBX...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Okay, I got the thing up to a lighted room, cleaned it up, and I'm going about checking it over. So far, I've determined the following: The computer itself is a 16-bit discrete-logic machine, with scattered ICs. It spans about 7 or 8 boards for the CPU itself, and about 16 or 17 for 64K or so of RAM. Dunno what it runs, as I can't power it on yet, but it boots from a magnetic tape cartridge. (I think it's a QIC-02 cartirige, aren't those the ones about 1/2" thick, 5-6" wide, and about 3" long?) Anyway, I haven't found a TTY connection yet, but I did find a Bell answer-only modem inside the rack (In fact, it had broken free of it's mounting and was bouncing around inside the rack) so it does have one somewhere. The main problem at the moment is the AC input box appears to be dead. No output when power is applied. I'm getting a second person to watch me open it tonight, that way if I do something stupid and nail myself, there's a second person to run for help. Replacing the AC box with a power strip won't help either, it appears to generate all the miscellaneous AC voltages required. If I get ambitious, I may be able to replace it, but I don't wanna unless I have to. More as I find it out... -------

26 years, 11 months

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Article on old software programs (for IBM, Apple, Borland, etc)

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well . . . there's a new take! an appropriate observation, too. I like the boards which require you to move a jumper to the "flash-enable" position before you can roach up the BIOS on your SCSI card. Of the half-dozen or so times I've upgraded firmware in situ, I've only left it that way once, having to return to the previous version because the board in question didn't like the "upgrade" very well. Dick -----Original Message----- From: jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com <jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, August 18, 1999 8:11 PM Subject: Re: Article on old software programs (for IBM, Apple, Borland, etc) > > >On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 19:48:53 -0600 "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> >writes: >>You can't always unplug it. Nowadays, the PROMs are soldered in and >>you >>reprogram them in situ. >> >>How does that effect your definitions? > > >Stupidware, n: Data entities that can be deleted by software, which, >when so deleted require de-soldering of one or more parts in order >for them to be restored. <'Modern PeeCee's are generally now equipped >with *stupidware*, as a cost saving measure.'> > > >Slushware, n: The silly practice of de-compressing firmware, and >placing it in RAM, usually in a very vulnerable area of the address >space. <"When changed the address of the BIOS on my SCSI card, the >the boot message said that I had 'corrupt *slushware*'.> > > > >> >>Dick >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Dwight Elvey <elvey(a)hal.com> >>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >>Date: Wednesday, August 18, 1999 1:16 PM >>Subject: RE: Article on old software programs (for IBM, Apple, >>Borland, etc) >> >> >>>"Charles P. Hobbs" <transit(a)primenet.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> > If you said that that computer had "hardware software" I would >>have >>>> > to kill you ;-) >>>> >>>> Firmware? >>>> >>>> >>> >>>Definitely firmware. You can grab it and remove it. It is >>>plugged in. >>>Dwight >>> >> > >___________________________________________________________________ >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 11 months

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id this board? M3118-YA

by danburrows＠mindspring.com

CXA16 16 line Mux Dan -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, August 18, 1999 8:34 PM Subject: id this board? M3118-YA The PMAX system has a board in it called a M3118-YA with two centronics like (but smaller) connectors. Anyone know what it is? --Chuck

26 years, 11 months

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Article on old software programs (for IBM, Apple, Borland, etc)

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 19:48:53 -0600 "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> writes: >You can't always unplug it. Nowadays, the PROMs are soldered in and >you >reprogram them in situ. > >How does that effect your definitions? Stupidware, n: Data entities that can be deleted by software, which, when so deleted require de-soldering of one or more parts in order for them to be restored. <'Modern PeeCee's are generally now equipped with *stupidware*, as a cost saving measure.'> Slushware, n: The silly practice of de-compressing firmware, and placing it in RAM, usually in a very vulnerable area of the address space. <"When changed the address of the BIOS on my SCSI card, the the boot message said that I had 'corrupt *slushware*'.> > >Dick >-----Original Message----- >From: Dwight Elvey <elvey(a)hal.com> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Wednesday, August 18, 1999 1:16 PM >Subject: RE: Article on old software programs (for IBM, Apple, >Borland, etc) > > >>"Charles P. Hobbs" <transit(a)primenet.com> wrote: >>> >>> > If you said that that computer had "hardware software" I would >have >>> > to kill you ;-) >>> >>> Firmware? >>> >>> >> >>Definitely firmware. You can grab it and remove it. It is >>plugged in. >>Dwight >> > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 11 months

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Cache of SEQUENT tapes found

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Guys: I found the following DC-600's at a local junk dealer: DYNIX SVAE 3.1.0 Balance DYNIX Maint. Delta 3.0.19/3.14 DYNIX Encryption 3.1.0 Balance DYNIX OS Delta 3.0.14 to 3.1.10 DYNIX BASE OS 3.1.0 If these are of possible value to anyone, please respond via private E-Mail. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 11 months

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Probably not classic but ...

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

I just picked up two DecSystem 5500's (and about 500 TK70 tapes :-) in BA213 cabinets. I _thought_ they were Vax 3500s but no, they have KN220 CPUs. Apparently Ultrix is loaded on them (haven't powered them up yet). So what are they? (SPIM machines? (aka PMAX'es)) They have had some parts "borrowed" but between the two of them I think I've got one complete system. --Chuck

26 years, 11 months

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First Laptop

by wsmith＠gj.com

>>> "Paul Passmore" <fpp(a)concentric.net> 08/18 4:52 PM >>> >Ok, heard back from my friend Bob the Epson man. he says"Epson never said >that they made the first laptop computer. Epson said they made the first >NOTEBOOK computer. This may seem to be a Marketing word game, but I feel >that given that the computer was the first >portable computer about the size of a notebook, their statement is true and >is one of the few things they told us that was true. " Must be true because you can easily fit, for example, an HP-85 in your lap (although it's a bit hard to see the screen).

26 years, 11 months

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First Laptop

by fpp＠concentric.net

Ok, heard back from my friend Bob the Epson man. he says"Epson never said that they made the first laptop computer. Epson said they made the first NOTEBOOK computer. This may seem to be a Marketing word game, but I feel that given that the computer was the first portable computer about the size of a notebook, their statement is true and is one of the few things they told us that was true. "

26 years, 11 months

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imsai 2

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<transformer/rectifiers. So if you're going to have on-board linear <regulators anyway, there's little to be gained in efficiency by using an <SMPSU rather than a simple transformer/rectifier/cap supply. And the <latter is a lot simpler. Actually that's not true. having done it using DEC H74x power bricks on one system to regulate the +9.4V(@18A load) to 14V(unloaded) to +8. The reduction in onboard regulator heating was enough to make me investigate a simpler way. I ended up using SCRs and much cruder regulator (still switchmode) to narrow the wild swing to 8.5 to 9.3V over a 1-18A load swing. <I agree that if you were going to make a 8080/Z80 machine _now_ you'd not <copy the Altair or the Imsai. And you'd not use the S100 bus, most <likely. But that's not what they're trying to do here. Actually My comments were narrowly aimed. the IMSAI was a far better example of S100 and worth copying. Only ONE change I'd do... NO MAINS POWER ON THE FP! Back when I'd seen one altair and a IMSAI fried by someone comming in contact with that. It had no business there. <Oh come on. If you can't design a linear PSU, you probably can't design <the rest of the computer... And you test on dummy load (for considerable <periods). Linear is much easier than switchmode. Especially HV switch mode! <In any case, in an S100 system, the regulators are on the cards. If you <get the raw supplies slightly too high you're not going to damage <anything. And of course you test them before inserting any cards. True, but a common problem in S100 is excess heat, removing it and hte regulators if over dissapating shutting down (undesired due to when they might!). Simple switch mode and CVTs were a good solution as the regulation reqirements of 10-15% were acceptable for bus raw power. The solution used by some and I hold the TI peripheral bus (also used local on card regulation) was to use higher voltages, smaller caps to beat the effects of ripple. Again another bix that really needs the PS tamed down. Allison

26 years, 11 months

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DC300 Tape Repair

by wsmith＠gj.com

>>> Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> 08/18 10:57 AM >>> >> Yes. I have four original IBM 5100 data tapes (1 diagnostic and 3 BASIC >> Aided Instruction) all of which have broken belts. Age has taken its >> toll. I do have numerous other tapes, although only a few blank IBM's. >> The problem doesn't appear to affect the Scotch tapes, which is what I >> have most of. >In my (limited) experience you can't interchange parts (belts, idlers, >etc) between different makes of cartridge. So I guess you're going to >have to take some of the good IBM ones apart to repair the defective ones. >You could try using parts of the 3M tapes, but I doubt if they will work. The winding pattern is the same, but the belts are a different color. On the IBMs they are an off-white. On the Scotch they are brown. I also have several 3Ms where they are closer to black. With so many broken IBM belts I am reluctant to swap out what are likely to ultimately be more broken belts. ! ! !

26 years, 11 months

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HP1000 ?????

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

A few weeks back someone on the list posted that they knew where some equipment was that was scheduled to be pitched. In addition to other gear, one of the items was an HP1000 system. I had expressed interest in the system, but have not heard anything for a while; I also can't find the email address of who it was. If you're on the list, please email me privately to discuss. Regards! Jay West

26 years, 11 months

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DC300 Tape Repair

by wsmith＠gj.com

>>> Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net> 08/18 5:37 AM >>> >>Yes. I have four original IBM 5100 data tapes (1 diagnostic and 3 BASIC >>Aided Instruction) all of which have broken belts. Age has taken its toll. >Oooh, ouch! Bet those tapes are hard to find (!). Definitely worth trying >to fix at least the diag tape. I have an extra diag. tape, but I haven't run it in a while. The first thing I'll do is copy it. >Hmmm, wonder if it would be practical to take a very good condition 3M >cart, dismantle it to bits and take the media from the defective IBM cart >and install it into the 3M cart. Of course, the spools will be different so >the media would have to be unwound from the old and wound onto the new. It >would take a _long_ period of time and a whole heap o' patience to do this >but it's a thought that came to mind. (I'm figuring the mechanical diffs >between the two sets of small parts would not allow simply installing a 3M >belt into the IBM cart.) I think I'd have to take the belt off to do this in any case, so it probably makes more sense just to replace the belt. Thanks, Wayne. ! ! !

26 years, 11 months

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semantics (was Article on old software programs (for IBM, Apple, Borland, etc))

by edick＠idcomm.com

Just to add grist for the mill, I'd point out that people now are, perhaps erroneously, calling recorded program material for your stereo and your TV 'software' as well. Now, I would call a CD or a CDROM firmware, since you can't really change it, but who's splitting hairs . . . Years ago, people predicted that it would become increasingly difficult to distinguish hardware from software, though I doubt that. After all, if you can see it or touch it, it's hardware, right? Now we have software for building hardware. Not just the HDL's of various sorts, but one can actually realize a series of 'C' statements via VHDL or Verilog, among others, I'm sure, in a hardware (?) implementation. If we call the content of ROM and PROM devices firmware, it's reasonable to call the content of PAL and CPLD devices firmware as well, isn't it? What about the content of those volatile FPGA devices? They're not like PROMs, in that they forget what they learned last time power was on. They can be changed pretty readily. Some are even capable of running (yecchh!) self-modifying code <shudder> internally. What do we call all this "stuff" now? Dick -----Original Message----- From: John Ruschmeyer <jruschme(a)hiway1.exit109.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, August 18, 1999 12:34 PM Subject: Re: Article on old software programs (for IBM, Apple, Borland, etc) >> > Bill, would you not call this an example of a hardware program? >> >> "Software" implies "program". "Software" by itself is sufficient. >> "Computer program" to differentiate from say "television program" >> I can accept because "program" by itself is ambiguous. I can accept >> "hardware program" as well, although I would say "programmed in hardware". >> If you said that that computer had "hardware software" I would have >> to kill you ;-) > >I'm not sure you can really say that "computer program" is any less >ambiguous than "television program", at least when taken with no >context. > >For example, Bill asks his friend, "Have you seen the new computer program?" > >Is he referring to: > > a. Front Page 2000 (a software application) > b. "The Computer Chronicles" (a television program about > computers) > c. A new political initiative aimed at puttimg more computers > in schools. > >Gotta love English... > ><<<John>>>

26 years, 11 months

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At least SOMETHING went right today... New toy.

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

This SHOULD be on-topic, it DOES have a computer in it... Remember that Bell box I mentioned awhile ago? It turns out it's a Bell Dimension 400 PBX, and it's now mine. I got the console and boot tapes, and a mess of documentation. Some of it was inside the box, which wasn't too heavy (I was able to move it around (Up 5 floors! Cargo elevators are a good thing!) by myself, it's on casters.) The only bad things so far is the general state of disrepair of the unit - Some of the cards inside were dismounted, the modem inside had broken free and was boucing around, Also, the ceiling above it was crumbling, and so there's a bunch of white powder all over the top. From looking inside the front door though, it doesn't appear to have gotten inside. Oh, and the power plug is that odd round thing on PDP-11 power supplies, so I'll have to open it up and replace that. That shouldn't be TOO hard, unless I do something silly again, I really don't like playing around where line current is involved... So anyway, the usual 30 questions bit: 1. So, what can I do with this besides take up space? Can I plug this into the phone network? I plan on toting it to work and putting it to use there, where a PBX is desperately needed... Otherwise, I guess I could run it non-connected, but it'd be a waste. 2. Is this hard to program? I haven't had time to read thru all the manuals yet. I got 7 different manuals: A. Dimension 400 PBX task lists and index B. How to operate the Dimension attendant console (etc.) C. A small flip-type card listing all the feature codes... D. Dimension 400 PBX detailed level procedures. (500-659) E. Dimension 400 PBX detailed level procedures. (660-793) F. Customer order document. (I dunno what this is...) G. Schematic Drawings. (Don't worry, it's only block diagrams and general stuff, nothing really specific that I can see.) 3. Can I plug normal phones into this, or does it need special phones? I guess that's it. I'll learn a little more about it tomorrow when I fire it up... -------

26 years, 11 months

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Wanted: jumper settings for Teac FD-235HF-101

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

I have been over the numerous PDF files on the Teac web site. The *-101 drive is not listed. It has a row of jumpers near the power connector with some recognizable names (D0, D1, FG, H-HI...) and at least one with a mysterous name (OP). The problem that I am having is that I have this flat-panel PC with an external DB-25 for an external floppy. I have traced out individual pins from an internal 34-pin header to the DB-25, but have come up with several that don't connect... 34-pin: 2, 4, 6, 12, 16 AFAIK, pin 16 on a standard floppy is the MOTOR ON signal. The behavior is this: the drive seeks on boot, the disk auto-rotates on insertion and when it gets to the part of the initialization where the floppy is read, the LED lights up, the heads twitch, but the disk does not rotate. On 5.25" drives (i.e., FD-55GFR and pals), there are straps to control when to light the LED and when to fire up the motor. I cannot figure out if there is a way to tell this floppy to spin based on other signals than MOTOR ON. There are several "S*" jumper pads on the drive PCB. I did have to change one jumper before using this drive in a standard enclosure (it came from a four-disk floppy duplicator) in order to select it. It works find in a PeeCee now. I'd love to know what the half-a-dozen pads are for. Caveat: I don't mind swapping this drive out with another one, but I only have a source of +5V, not +12V from this connector (no, the FD-235 does not use +12V for the motor). -ethan === Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

26 years, 11 months

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DC300 Tape Repair

by wsmith＠gj.com

>>> Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net> 08/17 5:42 PM >>> >Do I assume correctly you have an only copy of a very important OS tape or >something just as critical you're unfortunately trying to repair? Yes. I have four original IBM 5100 data tapes (1 diagnostic and 3 BASIC Aided Instruction) all of which have broken belts. Age has taken its toll. I do have numerous other tapes, although only a few blank IBM's. The problem doesn't appear to affect the Scotch tapes, which is what I have most of. Thanks.

26 years, 11 months

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imsai 2

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>What puzzles me is why the IMSAI folks decided to use a switching power >supply when the box and everything else already supported the needs of the >S-100 with the previously available and now quite inexpensive unregulated >supplies of yesteryear. Probably an issue of economy, using PC-clone power supplies at about $25 each vs using a custom-wound transformer at $200 or so a pop. > One of the main benefits of the S-100 was that it >had on-board regulation, so that if you didn't need a given supply, you >didn't have to bring it on board and regulate it, dissipating power as you >went. If the new box is capable of running the original boards, it must >provide the raw 8 and +/- 16-volt supplies. Where's the benefit in having a >switching regulator sitting in the back of the box? I suppose it creates a >market for a power distribution module to put +5 and +/- 12 on each board >which needs it rather than using the on-board regulators, but that opens >another can of worms. What's the "right" way to distribute it without >tampering with a historically correct board? According to what I read from the web page, there's a PC-clone switching power supply followed by a "boost" switching circuit to get back to +8 and +/- 16. That's not completely unreasonable, but it sounds a little bit fishy to me in the sketchiness of the details. Several S-100 manufacturers who were still at it in the mid-80's had regulated +5V on the S-100 backplane. Those who wanted to use their older S-100 cards in such a machine just jumpered across the 7805's and viola! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 11 months

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imsai 2

by edick＠idcomm.com

Assuming you've used a real wire, it certainly will keep the two points at the same potential. I thought you meant bypassing the already installed regulator by attaching a feed directly from the power supply, which indicates what I was thinking rather than what I should have been. What I was trying to envision is what kind of external booster they intend to put on a PC PSU. I can't imagine any worse sort of arrangement, though. By this I mean that the one functional component which seems to fail most is the power supply. WHile I've only had about half a dozen motherboards die over the years, I've got a 55-gal drumful of dead power supplies, on most of which the fan is what failed. In many cases, the fan fails and then the supply gets hot and dies. The common PC PSU is overdesigned by a fair amount. I doubt that a single 250-watt PSU is adequate for a typical S-100 setup. I know, that's 50 Amps on the +5! I've never seen one supply, even a 450-watt server supply that could approach its rated loading. They're out there, I'm sure, but I've never encountered one. Back to IMSAI's problem . . . I can't see financial justification for booster supplies from a PC PSU when you can buy a 450-watt open-frame switcher and set the outputs to the required voltage and be done with it. A day's work behind making the decision will eat up all the savings associated with using a PC PSU. Dick -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 6:46 PM Subject: Re: imsai 2 >>I'm not sure that "jumpering across" the 7805 will be healthy for the 7805. >>Of course, if the input doesn't drop below the output during shutdown this >>may not be a concern. > >Maybe I was unclear on what I meant by "jumpering across": you put a >wire between pin 1 and pin 3 of the regulator. With such a jumper, >it's impossible for the input to drop below output at the regulator. > >Of course, you've got to remember to remove the jumper before putting >the resulting card back into a system with unregulated power busses! > >Like I said, regulated S-100 power busses were done by several manufacturers >in the early and mid-80's with great success. It's a non-issue. > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 11 months

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imsai 2

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Anyway, why does it have to be one transformer? Why not a 12-0-12 for the <16V lines and a 6V one for the 8V line (those should produce DC voltages <within the range of any normal S100 board regulator). Such transformers <are trivial to obtain. Then you'd end up with the piece of crap altair supply... <There is a myth doing the rounds that PSUs -- even simple linear PSUs -- <are impossible to design. No idea where it came from... Because any error means all your silicon is junk. Also if you make a small error the core you using could get quite hot. Or maybe the ripple >from switching exceeds the reasonable level by say a volt or two. Then there are the high current ground loops that cause instability at something approaching max load or minimum load. The worst is when you forget the chopper side has 300V on it, S*!^^ d@**. The number of errors that can be made are far higher. Then again having designed a few, once you've done it you learn... mostly everything they taught you was far from enough. that and fixing all those that were really not so well designed. Allison

26 years, 11 months

3
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Hacker tea (was Re: Late Nights and Caffeine)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Aug 17, 15:04, Don Maslin wrote: > Subject: Re: Hacker tea (was Re: Late Nights and Caffeine) > On Tue, 17 Aug 1999, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Actually, Tetley, and Taylors of Harrogate. > > Lovely little town - don't know about the tea. We spent a night there > some years back and had a truly excellent dinner at the Brasserie along > with some top notch jazz from a local group. Memorable evening. Yes, it's a nice place. I live in York, about 25 miles away -- and Taylors have a branch here too. They also own Betty's, which is a famous cafe. Actually, Taylor's are better know here for coffee than tea... If you're ever in that part of the world again, drop me line and say hello. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 11 months

2
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DC300 Tape Repair

by wsmith＠gj.com

What's the best way to replace a broken belt in a DC300 tape cartridge? Is there a source for new belts?

26 years, 11 months

6
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imsai 2

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:11:10 -0600 "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> writes: <Stuff SNIPped> > What puzzles me is why the IMSAI folks decided to use a switching > power supply when the box and everything else already supported the needs > of the S-100 with the previously available and now quite inexpensive > unregulated supplies of yesteryear. Well, for a given wattage, switchers are smaller, lighter, and more economical to produce. I imagine if they resorted to the old iron-core transformers of yore, they would have had a difficult time finding a supplier for them. When they did, the part would probly cost as much as the rest of the materials put together. Makes perfect sense to me. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 11 months

5
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imsai 2

by chris＠handsoninc.com

Thanks to someone on the list, I saw the url for the people making a "new" imsai. I couldn't help but wonder: Will the fact that you can buy a new one for $995.00 finally curb the pricing on places like ebay for the vintage ones do you think? Jay West

26 years, 11 months

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S100 box (was Re: imsai 2)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Say... trade for neat PDP-8 stuffies or similar? B^} < <-jim Smoking wacky weed? I have two NS*, one Altair, a CCS, Compupro and one of my own nightmares (split bus so there are three s100 busses that only share power). Then there were a dozen or so Intergrand and TEI cases I practically gave away. Allison

26 years, 11 months

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[Fwd: Lear-Siegler ADM3A with Retrographics (Tek emulator) plus spare parts] (fwd)

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Forwarded from the 'net. Replies to original poster please. This is very cool... If I was closer, I'd grab it! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:38:25 -0400 From: Rich Kulawiec <rsk(a)gsp.org> Subject: Lear-Siegler ADM3A with Retrographics (Tek emulator) plus spare parts I have an original relic of the computing of the late 70's and early 80's here: it's an ADM3A (the ASCII terminal that looks like a Volkswagen Beetle) that has had a Retrographics board dropped into it so that it can emulate Tektronix graphics. (I've never used that functionality, but I can provide you with the notes that were given to me on how to make it work.) It's in the light blue/dark blue two-tone that LS liked to make these in...it's almost indestructable...and it's relatively heavy. I also have a box of spare parts which includes 1 or 2 extra ADM3A boards (gotta love all that TTL logic!) plus whatever else I gutted from the extra ADM3A's that were sitting around. It also works: I used it to boot a Sparcstation last week. Make me an offer (and please be sure that it's enough to cover shipping costs, or you can pick it up near Philadelphia or Baltimore) and the entire pile o'stuff can lend an authentic air to your retro-computing environment. My email address is below. ---Rsk Rich Kulawiec rsk(a)gsp.org

26 years, 11 months

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S100 box (was Re: imsai 2)

by edick＠idcomm.com

The thing to remember about the "good old days" of early microcomputers, etc, is that most of the work was done by people who had the courage to do it in spite of their complete lack of educational credentials and the accompanying conventional prejudice. But for these courageous folks, nothing might have been done for another decade, as the trend at the time was to BE CONSERVATIVE. These bold newcomers were opportunists, building S-100 because they got a good deal on 100-pin edge connectors, for example, not because it was necessarily the best choice from a technical standpoint. That's what brought these machines to within the reach of the hobbyist/experimentor who reinvented electronics engineering of the time. The fact that the power supplies were "crap" was because they were built with stuff the vendors believed, but only barely, would "work" though it was bought primarily because it was "affordable." "Work" was loosely defined, and what was an inconvenience to the folks who bought the first Altair boxes was a costly lesson to the folks who designed the things in an essential vacuum. Most of the guys I knew back then to be doing the design came from Math, the Sciences, even Industrial Arts backgrounds, and they were working from a perception of need, not from, with their own funds or funds begged or borrowed from people who knew no more than they about what might happen. Dick -----Original Message----- From: allisonp(a)world.std.com <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, August 18, 1999 7:02 AM Subject: Re: S100 box (was Re: imsai 2) >> Then you'd end up with the piece of crap altair supply... >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> <VENT WARNING - proceed at your own risk> >> >> Ahem... (with regard to the last line immediately above) Get Stuffed! > >Thanky very much and, here's your sign! > >Let me introduce myself... > >in december of 1974 I got my copy of Popular Electronics as usual and lo >and behold there was Altair. Having some expereince with 8008 prior to >that and PDP-8 as well I wanted one and had saved some money. Off goes >order by then airmail! Arrived 4 weeks later (told thats a record too) >is 200th built Altair with a 4k memory and PIO. Built with in days and >I was for many weeks maybe months the first one I know of on LI to have a >machine. > >NOW, there is NO question the PS was crap. The first transformers (two of >them for both voltages) were horribly undersized for the load, the >filter caps not to mention the diodes were also pretty over loaded. By >time spring came I'd finally gotten my 88ACR and another 4k of ram and >watche the PS fry. The transofrmer for +-16 was too light and I found a >suitable replacement. The somewhat larger +8 core was stripped and >rewound to provide 7.5V and the caps were tossed for some nice 55,000mFD >units. > >LIke I said the design was CRAP!. MITS would later that summer send a new >pair of transformers that were better but still woefully undersized. > >The were first, not best! > >> If a capable group of people (please note the non-specific reference here) >> were available and were such hot $#!* in 1975, why didn't they produce >> something better??? > >They did. IMSAI was far better as was the Altair 8800B. Everyone that >follow surely learned from the errors from better poser supplies to >improved cooling and bus noise reduction. > >> Twenty-Five years after the fact it is far too easy to pronounce judgements > >I said that at the time and quite bluntly, however it was cheap and most >of the problems could be overcome if you didn't mind applying some havey >modifications. > >> on the past, judged against the current 'state of the art'. But was >> anything learned from it? > >On my part yes, I'm still here. They arent. > >> In comparison to todays cars, the Model T was CRAP but I don't see it >> constantly being held up to ridicule. It, like the Altair and many other >> early developments were done with the materials and skills that were >> available AT THE TIME to the PEOPLE who got off their duffs and DID IT! > >Actually in many ways that is not true and you know why. > >> And all indications are that much was learned from it, as evidenced by the >> rapid followups by improved units like the IMSAI, the SOL, and even the >> ALTAIR 'B' series. > >The Bseries was how many years later? By then everyone was eating MITS >lunch. > >> In every revolution, someone has to be the first... and guess what? RARELY >> are they the shining example of the art that it seems like some expect that >> the Altair and its ilk should have been. More often, they are the >> unskilled visionaries, the hacks, the garage bands, the hobbyists, or even >> just someone out to make a quick buck and bail. > >Yep, and all of the above applies. > >> Maybe this is why it has been so hard to get people really interested in >> the HISTORY behind computers. It has just happened all too fast, and there >> has not been enough time for the whole art (science if you prefer) to gain >> any respect. > >As a practicing engineer then and now while the idea of cheap facinated >me, I was surprized that things know to the industry were not apparently >know to those guys. It's why by early '78 that box was for the most part >permanenty retired. It is still in my collection and while first from my >engineering perspective it serves as shining example of HOW NOT TO DO >IT. It stays in the collection as MY first one and how persistance >allowed me to do things that were difficult then with the hardware >available (to me). > >> Or we get the people that came from the jobs that some of up would died for >> back then. Working with 'real computers', built by well trained (I like to >> believe) people in 'real companies', with a 'real goal' ahead of them... >> Reality check folks, that was a whole other world from the reality that >> some of us grew up in! > >Oh, guess my resume doesn't qualify. > >> So, (not that anything I will ever say is likely to stop anyone) call it >> what you will, but to some few of us who were still in awe of computers >> back in 1975, and the Altair or some similar device was the first computer >> that we could ever call our own, it was magic! > >It was majik. No question but as someone that was there there was more >magic in our dreams. Those dreams I may add were all to often spent >chasing a design of the machine error when the real desire was to crank >code! Or watching our really neat VDM1 demo fry as bus nise crashed the >machine. > >Like the Model T those of us that have driven one, worked on the engine >understand why it deserves to be preserved, driven and documented as it >it's effect on the world. It does not negate that it's a crude machine. >The later will never change but history knows that too. It's partly the >reason for the AAA and a lot of other inovations! > >With that in mind the computer equivelent of AAA was the Homebrew >Computer Club, LICA<Long Island Computer Association>, BCC <boston >computer Society> and so on. They were there to help those that couldn't >cope with the design errors, limitations or outright shoddy design on >their way to accomplishing a dream which wa often very different from >coping with a machine that didn't work as could be expected. > >Not a rant, just a loud, wake up! The good old days were more than simple. >VCF is dedicated to showing the full story, all of it including the dirty >sides like the World Power SCAM. > >Allison > >

26 years, 11 months

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More available equipment / Chicago rescue opportunity

by ware＠interaccess.com

The moving truck arrives Monday, and I still have far too much stuff. If anyone in the Chicago area is interested, I have the following equipment available free to a good home (of course, interesting token small trades or cash won't be turned down...) DEC RL02 disk drive w/packs DEC 6-bit A/D converter (likely to be incomplete - made with single-height flip chip modules. Was used with an 8/e.) Assorted DEC power supplies (single and multi-voltage outputs) Apple II+ with Disk II drives Apple IIgs Apple Disk II drives Apple Macintosh IIci Apple Macintosh Plus (qty. 3) Apple Macintosh SE Apple monitors - II, IIc, RGB, Mac Assorted monochrome and color monitors Assorted PC clone cases, parts, and power supplies AST 486 desktop (stripped) Compaq 386 desktops (qty. 5) Compaq Portable II (one data line on ISA bus stuck low?) Data General/Hitachi 20" monitor (fixed freq for AViiON, RGB+sync on green, slight xdm login screen burn. Same model used with some SGI systems) Magnavox Odyssey2 (qty. 3) Okidata LaserLine 6 printer (w/extra toner) Sony 16" Trinitron monitor (fixed freq, RGB+h&v sync inputs) Keyboard for Commodore 128D VTech Laser 128 (poor cond.) 8" and 5.25" floppy disks Various non-computer electronics (JBL speaker components, assorted a/v equipment, old test equipment) There are also many other items that I may be willing to part with if someone is interested, including the following: DEC PDP-11/24 Luggables - Compaq, Panasonic, Sanyo, etc. Other Apple II-series and Macintosh systems and peripherals I will not have time to pack and ship any of this equipment before the move, so pickup in Chicago (Lakeview/Lincoln Park area in the city) would be greatly preferred. I may be able to make some of the smaller items magically reappear in the SF Bay Area in a few weeks (for the cost of freight) if there is no local interest, but I can't do that with the larger items. Help! -- Scott Ware ware(a)interaccess.com

26 years, 11 months

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Spotted at the thrift shop

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

26 years, 11 months

1
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Spotted at the thrift shop

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

> > >On another note: I picked up a couple of real nice "Media Cabinets" for $25 > >each. They're 7 feet tall, 18 inches deep, and 3 feet wide. They have > >lockable roll-down doors (tambour), they're made of steel, and weigh a TON! > >Great storage at a great price. > > Yep! Those are likely some examples of the early 'Wright Line' cabinets. > You can get all kinds of inside accessories for them to store just about > any kind of media or books you can imagine. > Yep... That's exactly what they are. Fortunately, they came from a clean environment and are in extremely good condition. After getting them home, I realized how useful they would be so, I'm gonna go back and see if there are any more. > Wright Line is still very much in business, and they're happy to sell > accessories. Check them on the web at www.wrightline.com. > Thanks Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 11 months

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Spotted at the thrift shop

by lwalker＠mail.interlog.com

On 17 Aug 99 at 10:01, Steve Robertson wrote: > Saw this at the local thrift and was wondering if it is worth grabbing. > > It's a ZENITH Luggable computer. Looks kinda like a COMPAQ suitcase > computer. Although it could be a tad smaller. The unsual thing about it is > that the drives (5-1/4 and HD) are hidden in the top of the case. There is > a release mechanism that allows them to pop-up for access. > > It's priced at $30 but, I could probably get it for about $20. Is it worth > collecting? > I have one in my collection, but with 2 fds no HD. Cool design. Mine's a ZFA-161. It's a Dos machine with a monitor program in ROM ,but a CP/M card was available. It has a passive backplane and one of the most uncluttered interiors I've seen. If it has an HD I'd go for it, Hell, I'd give you $20 just for the HD and controller. ciao larry PS Just had a look a Uncle Rogers images. Apparently the model 150 was also luggable. If you can really say the first Compaqs or Kaypros were "luggable" with a sraight face. lwalker(a)interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c(a)xoommail.com Vintage Computer Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C

26 years, 11 months

1
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(fwd) coco stuff for sale (fwd)

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Found on the Usenet... Send response to bbaker(a)hal-pc.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Bruce R. Baker <brb(a)delphi.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.os9 Subject: coco stuff for sale Date: Tue, 10 Aug 99 16:42:09 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info(a)delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 60 Message-ID: <J1beTyB.brb(a)delphi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.93.4.2 Xref: psyber.com comp.os.os9:3431 Look, all this for $60.00 > TRS-80 Color Computer Sell List > August 9, 1999 > > Color Computer 3 Extended Basic Manual by Microsoft and Microware > Color Basic and Extended Basic Quick Reference Guide,for Coco 2 > Part 1: Introduction to BASIC, Student Manual Cat: 26-2151 > Micropilot Manual and Reference Guild for TRS-80 (no disks) Cat: 26-2718 > Getting Started with Color Basic (for Coco 2) - 2 copies > Going Ahead with Extended Color Basic (TRS-80 Color Computer) > Space Assault by Radio Shack ROM only Cat: 26-3060 > Polaris by Radio Shack, ROM and manual Cat: 26-3065 > Roman Checkers by Radio Shack, ROM and manual Cat: 26-3071 > Slay the Nereis by Radio Shack, ROM with manual Cat: 26-3086 > Doubleback by Radio Shack, ROM only Cat: 26-3091 > Androne by Radio Shack, ROM only Cat: 26-3096 > Dragonfire by Radio Shack ROM only (128k Coco) Cat: 26-3098 > Flightsim I by Tandy, 2 copies of disk and manual (32k Coco) Cat: 26-3108 > Electronic Book (for TRS-80), Shapemaker, Number Factory, and Maze Master > Cat: 26-3141 > Cave Walker, disk only, 2 copies Cat: 26-3246 > Deskmate by Tandy disk, manual, and box (64k Coco) Cat: 26-3259 > Biosphere, disk only Cat: 26-3280 > Pegasus and the Phantom Riders, disk only (64k Coco) Cat: 26-3281 > Pitstop II by Epyx includes disk and manual (64k Coco) Cat: 26-3282 > Pitstop II, disk only (64k Coco) Cat: 26-3282 > Robot Odyssey I by The Learning Company, disk, manual and box (for 64k Coco) > Cat: 26-3284 > Robot Odyssey I by The Learning Company, disk only Cat: 26-3284 > Pitfall II, disk only (64k Coco) Cat: 26-3287 > Shamus, disk only, 2 copies Cat: 26-3289 > Desert Rider, disk only (32k Coco) Cat: 26-3292 > The Dallas Quest by Datasoft includes disk and manual Cat: 26-3294 > The Dallas Quest, disk only, Cat: 26-3294 > Interbank Incident by Tandy, 3 disks. manual, and box (for OS-9 Coco) > Cat: 26-3296 > Graphic Pak Manual Cat: 26-3157 > Pyramid 2000 (manuals only), 2 copies Cat: 26-3310 > Number Stumper Manual by The Learning Company (manual only) > Word Spinner Manual by The Learning Company (manual only) > Learn about Sounds in Reading (box and manual only) > Hangword/Scramble B5 Software, for 32k Coco computer > Sword of Roshon for Model III, cassette and manual (16k Coco) Cat: 26-1918 > Compac Manual, cassette tape and cable (16k Coco) Cat: 26-3330 > > Beginners Guide for Personal Computers by Forrest Mims, III 2nd Edition > @ 1983 Cat: 62-2003 > Understanding Digital Computers by Forrest Mims, III Cat: 62-2027 > Basic Conversion Handbook by Brain, Oviate, Paquin, and Stone Cat: 62-2088 > Color Computer Programs by Rugg and Feldman Cat: 62-2313 > I will sell the whole lot for $60.00. plus shipping!! Anyone want any off these things? $5.00 per item but you get quantity discounts. Make me an offer! > > Bruce Baker, Houston, Texas send response to bbaker(a)hal-pc.org if you can. --- Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/17/99]

26 years, 11 months

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VCF 3.0 Announcement

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Parallax Inc. and Dr. Dobb's Journal proudly present... The Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 October 2nd & 3rd Santa Clara Convention Center Santa Clara, California www.vintage.org For the third year in a row, the Vintage Computer Festival is back to thrill and amaze you with the history of one of the greatest inventions in all of mankind, the computer! The Vintage Computer Festival is for YOU! We don't care which computer you think is the best. We don't care what machine you grew up with, or first fell in love with, or still use today. The VCF is a celebration of computers and their history! Come share the joy of computing!!! This year: * More great speakers! * More great exhibits! * More great vendors with Cool Stuff to sell! * More fun games and contests, including the Nerd Trivia Challenge! * Tour The Computer Museum History Center! * And of course, FREE STUFF!! In short, plenty of stuff to indulge all your SENSES: HEAR the speakers! SEE vintage computers! TOUCH them too! SMELL their electronics! But please don't TASTE them! "The mission of the Vintage Computer Festival is to promote the preservation of 'obsolete' computers by allowing attendees to experience the technologies, stories and people that embody the remarkable tale of the computer revolution." If you haven't yet experienced the VCF, DON'T MISS THIS ONE!!! Register Early and $AVE! Register by September 15 and pay only $20 per person. That includes access to the entire event all weekend, including the speakers, the exhibit and the flea market. Kids 17 and under are admitted free, and as always, parking is free too! To pre-register, send a check or money order to: Vintage Computer Festival 4275 Rosewood Drive PMB#29-161 Pleasanton, California 94588 For ultimate convenience, please visit the VCF website for more information as well as a handy registration form ready to print. http://www.vintage.org/vcf/register.htm The Speakers Horst Zuse Horst, the eldest son of early digital computer pioneer Konrad Zuse, will be giving a lecture on his late father's machines and will focus on the computer businesses that Konrad later founded to market his ideas. Jon Titus Who can forget one of the earliest of kit microcomputers, the Mark-8? Jon designed the Mark-8 around Intel's 8008 microprocessor and wrote the construction article that appeared in the July 1974 issue of Radio Electronics--a milestone in microcomputer history. Todd Fischer Todd bought the assets of IMSAI after their bankruptcy and continued to manufacture and sell IMSAI products under the Fischer-Frietas Corporation. Todd consulted with MGM for the movie _War Games_ and, as a treat, will be bringing along for show and tell the actual IMSAI 8080 computer that co-starred in the film. Michael Wise Mike contends that his Sphere Computer circa 1975 is in fact the first integrated "Personal Computer". Some people think he has a valid claim to that title. Come hear his story and decide for yourself. Stan Veit Stan is an early chronicler of the microcomputer revolution, and also a participant. Stan started one of America's first computer stores in New York, and in the process forged relationships with some of today's revered pioneers, including Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, whom he shared a booth with at the first West Coast Computer Faire where the Apple ][ was debuted to the world. Ed Kramer Ed has been creating computer graphics since the days when it was done using mainly analog video devices. Today he's a Sequence Supervisor for Industrial Light & Magic doing computer generated graphics and special effects for such films as "Deep Impact", "The Mummy" and "Star Wars: The Phantom Menace". Jim Willing Our admired and beloved VCF Celebrity, Jim will wax philosophic on various themes of stupendous relevance. This year, Jim will help the aspiring vintage computer collector restore their machines to operating condition with "Debugging for Dummies", and will also give you tips to help you revive ancient copies of your favorite computer games in "Dead Media Society". Liza Loop Liza heads up the LO*OP Center, a non-profit organization dedicated to improving education through innovative thinking.  Liza introduced the first Apple into public schools in 1976 (in fact the first Apple 1, given to her by Steve Wozniak) and the world has never been the same since. Liza will be bringing along the Apple 1 and other historic machines for show and tell. Eugene Kim Eugene recently left Dr. Dobb's Journal as Senior Technical Editor to start his own consulting firm. He'll be giving a lecture on the history of free software, a very relevant topic considering the free-software movement is in full force in today's computing arena as evidenced by the escalating adoption of GNU/Linux. Curt Vendel Curt is the founder of the Atari Historical Society (check out his great website at http://www.atari-history.com) and has amassed an amazing collection of Atari artifacts and company history, including some one-of-a-kind Atari prototypes. Curt will be bringing along some of these prototypes for show and tell. Roger Sinasohn Roger is an avid collector of early portable computers and will be giving a talk on the history of the Kyocera 85, a.k.a. the Tandy Model 100, a.k.a. the Olivetti M10, a.k.a. the NEC PC-8201A. Doug Salot Doug's research has uncovered what he believes to be the first "personal computer". Forget the Apple ][, the Altair or even the Alto. Doug's pick as first PC goes all the way back to the 1950's. Designed by Edmund Berkeley, an unsung hero of computer history, Doug intends to win Berkeley the prominance and praise that he feels is much deserved by this virtually unknown computer visionary. Plus! Workshops by Parallax on their amazing little BASIC Stamp. Get a preview of this cool little device by visiting their website at http://www.parallaxinc.com. For complete speaker information and schedules, point your favorite web page viewing software at http://www.vintage.org/vcf/speakers.htm. The Vintage Computer Faire and Exhibition This year, the Vintage Computer Festival exhibit will feature the exhibits of individual collectors, all vying to win first, second or third place in eleven categories, plus the coveted "Best of Show" award. The winner of the "Best of Show" ribbon will also win fabulous prizes. This year, we want YOU to exhibit the pride of your collection. What better way to demonstrate your enthusiasm for your hobby than to be an exhibitor at the Vintage Computer Festival. Exhibitor information can be found on the Vintage Computer Festival website (http://www.vintage.org/vcf/exhibit.htm). The Vintage Computer Flea Market Every year the best deals on vintage computer items can be found at the Vintage Computer Flea Market. Here are only a few of the amazing items sold at last year's flea market: * Apple 1 (no, we're NOT kidding!) * SWTPc 6800 * A rare computer by "the digital group" * Morrow Decision 1 (S-100) * California Computer Systems (S-100) * Apple Lisa 2 * And much, much more!! If you've got old computer stuff that you'd like to sell, there's no better place than the Vintage Computer Flea Market at the Vintage Computer Festival. Please visit our website for rates and regulations (http://www.vintage.org/vcf/vendor.htm). The Nerd Trivia Challenge! Hey trivia fans! Think you got what it takes to survive the Nerd Trivia Challenge? If you qualify, you'll be pitted against two other players in a battle to determine who is the undisputed master of computer history trivia. Answer the most questions correctly and you could walk away with $50 in cash plus some other nifty prizes. Lightweights need not apply, this contest is geared towards the serious computer history enthusiast. For contest rules please visit http://www.vintage.org/vcf/ntc.htm. Tour The Computer Museum History Center! The Computer Museum History Center boasts the largest collection of historic computer artifacts in the world. Their collection includes rare, one-of-a-kind computers and artifacts that date back to the early part of the century and beyond. A tour of the History Center's "Visible Storage" warehouse will be organized on Sunday, October 3. Tickets are limited and so advanced registration is recommended. FYI: The History Center is on the move, and is thrilled to announce plans to build a permanent museum to be dedicated by 2007. You can help the History Center achieve its goal by becoming a member. Information about becoming a member of the History Center can be found at http://www.computer-history.org. Meet Fellow Computer Collectors! The VCF is the premier gathering for collectors of vintage computers. What better way to enjoy your hobby than by meeting other like-minded individuals to share stories and information about your computer collection. Register in advance by September 15 and save $$$! Visit http://www.vintage.org/vcf/register.htm for details. Visit our Sponsors! Without our sponsors, the Vintage Computer Festival could not be a reality. It is our wonderful sponsors that enabled us to bring you the Vintage Computer Festival year after year. Demonstrate your appreciation by visiting them on the web: Parallax, Inc. http://www.parallaxinc.com Parallax manufactures the BASIC Stamp, a versatile microcontroller with a built-in BASIC language that is suitable for most any electronics and computer hobbyist project. Dr. Dobb's Journal http://www.ddj.com Dr. Dobb's Journal is the oldest continually running microcomputer journal, in existence since 1975. It features monthly articles and columns geared towards the computer programming professional. EOF Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 05/25/99]

26 years, 11 months

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First laptop?

by fpp＠concentric.net

How about this? According to a close friend, Epson referred to him as Mr. HX no less, says it was the first. he even wrote some software to make the computer "wake up" every few days using the internal clock and print out "I miss Bob" while he was on vacation. So I'd have to agree its was the first. But is the TRS 80 handheld the first palmtop?

26 years, 11 months

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VCF 3.0 Speakers Announced!

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

The VCF 3.0 speakers have been announced! For the speaker list and speaker bio's check out http://www.vintage.org/vcf/speakers.htm (Not all speaker bio's are in yet but should be updated within the next few days). There's still about a month to pre-register and save $$$... http://www.vintage.org/vcf/register.htm Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 05/25/99]

26 years, 11 months

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New arrival: Son of Digi-Comp?

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Ok, perhaps stretching a point... an E.S.R. "Dr. Nim". It plays (can you guess?)... Nim! and some variations. Pix in the usual places... B^} -jim --- jimw(a)computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives >>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live!

26 years, 11 months

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Spotted at the thrift shop

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

Saw this at the local thrift and was wondering if it is worth grabbing. It's a ZENITH Luggable computer. Looks kinda like a COMPAQ suitcase computer. Although it could be a tad smaller. The unsual thing about it is that the drives (5-1/4 and HD) are hidden in the top of the case. There is a release mechanism that allows them to pop-up for access. It's priced at $30 but, I could probably get it for about $20. Is it worth collecting? On another note: I picked up a couple of real nice "Media Cabinets" for $25 each. They're 7 feet tall, 18 inches deep, and 3 feet wide. They have lockable roll-down doors (tambour), they're made of steel, and weigh a TON! Great storage at a great price. See Ya, Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 11 months

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imsai 2

by edick＠idcomm.com

No idealization here . . . just an approximation. let's see . . . #12 wire . . . 0.3" long . . . 7805 maxxes at about 1.2 amps with a good heatsink . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: sms(a)antinode.org <sms(a)antinode.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 9:15 PM Subject: Re: imsai 2 > From: "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> > >> Assuming you've used a real wire, it certainly will keep the two points >> at the same potential. > > I love to see an idealist. Is your wire carrying zero current, or is >it a superconductor? > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Steven M. Schweda (+1) 612-785-2000 ext. 16 (voice) > Provis Corporation (+1) 612-785-2100 (facsimile) > 5251 Program Avenue #100 sms(a)provis.com (e-mail) > Mounds View, MN 55112-4975 sms(a)antinode.org (e-mail 2)

26 years, 11 months

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questions about NeXT & VAX Systems....

by macierno＠cvm.msstate.edu

two unrelated questions: first : where can I find software/support for my NeXT computer on the web...... searching the web for quite a while has not produced any good sites..... Also, I'm looking for an old but WORKING Microvax or VAXStation on which to run (read : play with) VMS -- anyone have any good ideas on where to look - i've been watching ebay but most systems that come up for auction look like "fixer upers" or are expensive. I just need the basics....... thanx mark ------- ICQ 40439199 http://www2.msstate.edu/~mja2

26 years, 11 months

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imsai 2

by sms＠antinode.org

From: "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> > Assuming you've used a real wire, it certainly will keep the two points > at the same potential. I love to see an idealist. Is your wire carrying zero current, or is it a superconductor? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda (+1) 612-785-2000 ext. 16 (voice) Provis Corporation (+1) 612-785-2100 (facsimile) 5251 Program Avenue #100 sms(a)provis.com (e-mail) Mounds View, MN 55112-4975 sms(a)antinode.org (e-mail 2)

26 years, 11 months

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imsai 2

by edick＠idcomm.com

well . . . back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, and IMSAI was a major computer maker, the 25.2VCT was about as common as its companion, the 6.3V filament heater (starting to sound familiar?) and there were a few supplies which got away with that. If you filtered well and used only one diode at a time, you still had enough headroom to allow for 2.2 forward volts in the regulator. I've got switchers in the basement which have adjustable voltages for three (5-10Vdc, +/-12-18Vdc). The previous statement that switchers like a constant load is quite correct, though and what is meant there is that the switchers don't like capacitive loading, nor do they like loads which are intermittently on. S-100 boxes sometimes housed floppy and hard drives, though, and if it was only the 5-1/4" types, and floppies only, the +12 saw its worst nightmare. It saw nearly fully on, vs nearly fully off, since one floppy took more +12 than all the RS232 ports. I don't know where they're going to end up, but I believe that the power supply thing will have toox have quite a bit more attention than it's gotten so far. My advice to anyone wishing to sell hardware in the quantities they're likely to sell, would be to build a kit, no assembled units, find a catalog standard switcher to sell them, and use the fact that it's all just spare parts to bypass the FCC reg's. Sell the box top, sell the box bottom, the front, the rear, but no fully assembled boxes. Sell the front panel as a replacement part, too. That way there's no enclosure to require approval. What's more, it will make the phone support burden lighter. If they want a fully assembled and tested unit, tell them to buy a PC. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 8:00 PM Subject: Re: imsai 2 ><Anyway, why does it have to be one transformer? Why not a 12-0-12 for the ><16V lines and a 6V one for the 8V line (those should produce DC voltages ><within the range of any normal S100 board regulator). Such transformers ><are trivial to obtain. > >Then you'd end up with the piece of crap altair supply... > ><There is a myth doing the rounds that PSUs -- even simple linear PSUs -- ><are impossible to design. No idea where it came from... > >Because any error means all your silicon is junk. Also if you make a >small error the core you using could get quite hot. Or maybe the ripple >from switching exceeds the reasonable level by say a volt or two. Then >there are the high current ground loops that cause instability at >something approaching max load or minimum load. The worst is when you >forget the chopper side has 300V on it, S*!^^ d@**. The number of >errors that can be made are far higher. Then again having designed a >few, once you've done it you learn... mostly everything they taught you >was far from enough. that and fixing all those that were really not so >well designed. > >Allison >

26 years, 11 months

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Apple I on eBay

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Flame me if you want... But it seemed significant enough to mention. Should be interesting to see where this one goes price wise. Minimum bid is $5,000US. -jim --- jimw(a)computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives >>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live!

26 years, 11 months

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First laptop?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:31 AM 7/21/99 -0400, you wrote: >> The TRS-80 Model 100 had a much more useable 40x8 character display. The >> Model 100 also had a built-in editor, address book, schedule, and > >The real question is who made it for tandy and what other name did it sell >as? It was available as: NEC PC-8201 * NEC PC-8201A * Olivetti M10 * Kyocera KC-85 * Tandy M100 * Tandy M102 * and later, upgraded as: NEC PC-8300 Tandy M200 * The NEC PC-8201 was the Japanese version of the 8201A. Followups that were *not* related include: NEC PC-8401A * Olivetti M15 * Tandy M600 * I'm not sure about the NEC PC-8500 though. * Examples I have -- I'm looking for an 8300 and would like a non-modified m102. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

26 years, 11 months

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Spotted at the thrift shop

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:01 AM 8/17/99 -0400, you wrote: >It's a ZENITH Luggable computer. Looks kinda like a COMPAQ suitcase >computer. Although it could be a tad smaller. The unsual thing about it is Bigger. Quite a bit bigger. And heavier. Take a look at: http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/images/zen150a.jpg http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/images/zen150b.jpg http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/images/zen150c.jpg http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/images/zen150d.jpg http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/images/zen150e.jpg http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/images/zen150f.jpg http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/images/zen150g.jpg http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/images/zen150h.jpg and see if it's the same thing. If so, it's basically a portable pc; nothing fancy, nothing special, except its hugeness. >It's priced at $30 but, I could probably get it for about $20. Is it worth >collecting? $20 might be a little high. For $10 it's definitely worth getting; If you like it or collect portables, $20 is okay. I'd hate to have to pay shipping. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

26 years, 11 months

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First laptop?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 05:49 AM 7/21/99 -0400, you wrote: >While the Epson HX-20 can lay claim to being the first laptop, it had some Epson HX-20 was the first laptop-sized computer. Toshiba claims they coined (and trademarked) the term "laptop", beginning with their T-1100. I'm going to have to chase down that Byte reference; I seem to remember "lap-computer". The m100, being a fair bit more usable and available, became a hit with journalists, and got quite a bit more fame. >Now, does anyone know which the first notebook was? Was it the Grid >Compass, or the DG/One? Or something else I've never heard of? GRiD Compass, in Fall '82, followed by the Sharp PC-5000 and the Gavilan (both in '83; I'm still trying to find out which came first.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

26 years, 11 months

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DC300 Tape Repair

by wsmith＠gj.com

>>> Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> 08/17 6:01 PM >>> > > Upon the date 05:01 PM 8/17/99 -0700, Wayne Smith said something like: > >What's the best way to replace a broken belt in a DC300 tape cartridge? Is > >there a source for new belts? > > Not likely unless there was a real unusual need and someone already > supplies them. Normally, the mfr (3M, Dysan, or whoever else made them) > figures the user will typically throw out a defective cart and use a new > one. Hence, the assumption there's likely no aftermarket supplier, > especially now since DC300's have been out of popularity for several years. In my experience, spares for tape cartridges are impossible to obtain, other than by dismantling a new cartridge. This is worth doing if you have a defective catridge with some important data on it. > Best way to deal with this is to find an unusable tape with a good belt and > very carefully remove it and very carefully replace it on your defective > one. Probably should find one of the same manufacturer just to be safe. > It's stretched rather taught and will be a real circus to replace. Got > three or four arms hanging off you? :) Tony, have any thoughts on this? Argh! (that's me remembering what happens when you try to do this). The belt runs from the 'drive puck' (the roller that's driven by the capstan in the drive), between the 2 tape spools (it rubs on the outer layer of tape on both spools, thus maintaining the tape tension, and causing the tape to move at constant speed), and then round one or two idlers. The better cartridges have a fixed idler (on a post fixed to the baseplate) in the bottom corners. Some lesser cartridges have a 'floating' idler between the 2 spools at the bottom. That sort is a right pain to rebuild, and some of them were glued together (particularly on the smaller tapes), and these will drive you mad! OK, assuming 2 fixed idlers and screwed-together housing. It's best if you have 2 new tapes - one to take to bits for spares, the other to show you where all the bits go. Start by undoing the screws on the bottom of the cartridge, and pull off the cover. Remove the door and its spring. Take off the empty-ish spool (unwind the few turns of tape if necessary), the idlers, drive puck and belt. Take off the full spool, making sure you don't spill tape everywhere. Clean up the rollers and housing. Now to reassemble. Put the full spool on the 'supply' side. Put the drive puck, idlers and belt in position. The belt will be fairly taught even now, and should stay in place Drop the empty spool over the other spindle. It won't drop down as the belt gets in the way. Using a cocktail stick/plastic spike/etc, hook the belt round the spool. Evertything will fly off (:-(). Try again, and after about 5 goes you'll get it in place. Run the tape round the guides and put the end in the gap between the belt and the empty spool. Hold everything in place and carefully turn the drive puck. Keep on guiding the tape until 2 or 3 turns are wound on. Counter-rotate the 2 spools to tension the tape. You will have to force them against the friction of the belt. Refit the door and spring. Often you can fit the spring into a hole on the bottom of the door, tension it, and hook the end into a slot on the door. Then drop the assembly onto its post, and finally release the spring. Put the cover one, and fit the screws. Wind on the tape a few more turns, and try it in the drive. Start by 'retensioning' the tape. -tony >>>Thanks for that great description, Tony. I don't know whether you've inspired or depressed me. ;-) Wayne ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

26 years, 11 months

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imsai 2

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Well . . . freight cost alone might be justification for using switchers. <Nevertheless, I don't see a use for the regulated supplies in connection <with a bus which by definition uses on-board regulation. If the supply <actually provides the specified voltages, that's a different situation. Th <typical S-100 box, IIRC, used lots of amperes, even for just one memory The average S100 crate was +8 20A minimum and many were 25-30A on that bus never minding +12 at some 6A and -12 at same. The boards DO heat a bit and fans were typically 110V 100-140CFM models! Allison

26 years, 11 months

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