- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

Just doing some more testing, as I wanted to see if I could successfully retrieve data from floppies with the system wanting to crash after a minute. I discovered something REALLY ODD. It crashes after a minute, BUT that is a minute after there has been no activity with the RX50. This is so wierd, however, if I can't find a solution, I think this is a behavior that I can actually live with. Besides since it sounds like this might be a problem with the version of RT-11 I'm running, I suspect I'm stuck with it. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 11 months

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My own thoughts on surplus...

by max82＠surfree.com

Before you flame me about this e-mail, read this disclaimer: what is in this may be construed as heresy to the religion of this mailing list. I'm not being heretical. I am a very curious person, and I like to deal with machines, sometimes even build my own. Below are my observations of society at large, and the explanations which fit. It does not reflect on classic computer collecting and other hobbies to which you may be partial. Original message from Bruce Lane: > 1). The "PC Revolution." The advent of PCs did a lot to bring cheap >computing power into the hands of home users. The problem here is that >consumer pressure pushed PCs from well-built reliable systems into cheesy >'commodity' electronics that could be quickly and easily mass-produced. You mean, "it pushed companies". Home users used IMSAIs, PETs, Apple ][s, TRS-80s, and other cheesy, easily mass-produced machinery, and before that they simply didn't use anything. > Why? Because those who might have gotten into the field as a hobby settled >for buying consumer-grade crap off-the-shelf, no matter how cheesily it >might have been built, instead of modifying existing equipment, or building >their own device. Well, consider that at a certain time, building computers was a trend. A lot of people did it, a lot of people enjoyed it. Now, certain other computer-related things are trendy, and a lot of people do them and enjoy them. I don't think that this can be blamed on the PC revolution, I think it should be considered the natural flow of things. By the same token, a lot of people now work on Web design. This will lessen when web design has evolved to a formulaic, mechanical task (it's already happening). Cheesy consumer-grade crap cannot be built on a kitchen table these days. Nobody would build a PCI VGA card when one can be bought for a lower price. > 2). Schools: The labels of 'geek,' 'nerd,' and other such epithets have >been flying around our public school system for decades, along with a >social climate that, for reasons I've still not figured out, seems to >actively discourage curiousity, hands-on engineering skills, and pursuit of >interests in the physical sciences. For one thing, don't start blaming the problems of your hobby on public schools. Secondly; I haven't heard those labels at my school, mostly because they're not used. They're not used because it's no longer reasonable to BE a geek. Sir Lancelot was quite useful in his age, but if he came into an army recruitment center today, people would see him as Don Quixote. His approach is no longer valid. The fact that curiosity is discouraged is very true, and a very important point. The reason why is a blend. Most kids haven't a clue why they're forced to learn what they learn, and they say that they'll never need it again. When they become teachers, therefore, they have no idea why they're teaching what they teach. And so, when a student displays curiosity, the teacher sees it as his job not to harvest curiosity, but to make sure that the student is learning what he's supposed to, just for the sake of learning (I do speak from experience). When I have seen a piece of equipment which I wanted to know more about in my school's science lab, the teachers often display a strong desire to chase me out of the lab, or the entire school if it's after school hours. Of course, from a social viewpoint, this has an excellent use: it keeps people in power, it keeps corporations making money, without a whole lot of challenge. This has (or so I've heard) been different during the space race days, when it was necessary to have as many scientists as possible working on the rockets.

26 years, 11 months

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RQDX3 as third controller under RT-11

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>OK, I've run a bunch of tests the last few hours while writing this up (and >spending a lot of the time with the troubles at work). I have found one >setting on the RQDX3 that I'm not sure about. Should I have the LUN set, >and if so to what? Actually in this case identifying the jumpers to jumper >might be helpful, as I'm using a scan of the pages dealing with the RQDX3, >and don't have actual doc's on it. What I do have isn't clear at all about >LUN's. I think I should either not have it set, or set it to 4 or 8, >but.... Some operating systems will insist that unit numbers on one MSCP controller not duplicate those found on another. RSTS/E is picky about this, but RT-11 isn't - you can start the unit numbers from wherever you want. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 11 months

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RQDX3 as third controller under RT-11

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>The thing really wierd about this system, and one of the main reasons I >call it a mutant beast is the following: > >Controller CSR Vector Purpose >Viking QDT 172150 154 Both Hard Drives are on this board >WQESD 160334 150 Bootstrap (that's all it does) >RQDX3 160354 144 RX50 There's no real need for RT-11 to know about the existence of the WQESD, if there aren't any drives there. I'd do a SET DU:CSR2=160354 and map any other ports to unused CSR's and see if that helps. If you ever want to get rid of your WQESD, let me know - I *love* them - they're wonderfully configurable controllers, and particularly good under RT-11 as you can get 8 bootable OS's per drive. >After one minute, I get the following: > @134606 ... >I think it's always at 134606, but the minds a little fuzzy at the moment, Which monitor - FB? XM? SJ? If you do a SHOW MEM (on a running system, clearly!) where does 134606 fall? Which version of RT-11? RT-11 5.3 had some seriously screwy problems with the DU driver in some situations, and the early 5.4's had some serious difficulties. 5.4G isn't so bad, but not as good as 5.5 or later. >I'm working on this while working on problems at work, and it's just a >little late. Anyone have any ideas? My plan is to normally have DU7: set >to PART=3 of UNIT=1, and only switch it to the RX50 when I need to use a >floppy drive. Are you running any foreground jobs simultaneously? TCP/IP, maybe? Does the crash happen if you don't start up the foreground jobs? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 11 months

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bill@chipware.com

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I don't know of one on the net. After a lot of searching, the guy I got <the Check WWW.IMSAI.NET he's trying to get schematics up. so far he only has a few. If not put in a search for burskys book. <IMSAI from found his schematics. We have a scanner at work. I'll see <if I can get a good scan of it this week and email it to you. Also get it to FF (imsai.net) for posting. Allison

26 years, 11 months

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Another Question on Codar Clock

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

The Codar Clock board has a jumper to turn the battery power on and off for the board. What good is this? Is this just a way to save the battery life when the board isn't in a system? Is the board any good without the batteries? It doesn't seem to be, but... Considering I've no idea how ancient the batteries are, they amazingly enough function well enough for me to be able to turn the system off for a short period of time and back on. Not sure if they're strong enough for longer periods. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 11 months

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My own thoughts on surplus...

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

I practically grew up with the surplus market. I've been buying and selling stuff related to it for nearly 20 years. I'd like to take a moment and add my own thoughts to the thread. Bear in mind that said thoughts are the product of late-night ramblings after a long day. Take them however you please, or ignore them. I won't mind either way. I hate to say it, but these days it all comes down to money. Many of the real 'tinkerers' of years past are gone, and some of those tinkerers, I'm convinced, ran (or helped to run) surplus stores during earlier (and, IMO, somewhat happier) times. Now, greed is running rampant, and its not limited to the surplus field either. Anyway... back in the 70's and early 80's, deals that most of us would consider pretty darn good were relatively easy to come by in both computing and military surplus hardware. It was not at all uncommon for dealers to help out folks they knew were truly interested, even if it meant selling something intact for a little less than they might have been able to get if they scrapped it out. During the late 80's to now, that mindset seemed to undergo a radical change. Surplus stuff was, and is, still available, but prices have shot through the roof in many cases, while the variety of stuff, and the quality thereof, have declined significantly. I blame this mainly on two things: The "PC Revolution" and the prevalent attitudes in our public school system. 1). The "PC Revolution." The advent of PCs did a lot to bring cheap computing power into the hands of home users. The problem here is that consumer pressure pushed PCs from well-built reliable systems into cheesy 'commodity' electronics that could be quickly and easily mass-produced. Such mass production and cheap availability removed much of the incentive folks once had to learn about basic electronics, digital circuitry, etc. This means demand for certain types of surplus, such as component parts and some types of test gear, slacked off. Why? Because those who might have gotten into the field as a hobby settled for buying consumer-grade crap off-the-shelf, no matter how cheesily it might have been built, instead of modifying existing equipment, or building their own device. In short: Somewhere along the line, quality, serviceability, functionality, and longevity became less important than cosmetic appearance and ease of operation. Surplus places are often choked with equipment that was never designed to last more than a couple of years. 2). Schools: The labels of 'geek,' 'nerd,' and other such epithets have been flying around our public school system for decades, along with a social climate that, for reasons I've still not figured out, seems to actively discourage curiousity, hands-on engineering skills, and pursuit of interests in the physical sciences. Fewer people in the sciences means fewer would-be engineers and technicians. This also means fewer people who are likely to want to tinker with anything other than "politically correct" technology (again, PCs, because they're often plug-and-pray). Where I'm going with this: Demand for 'commodity' surplus (PC parts) shoots on past demand for equipment that may be more reliable, or more rewarding as far as gaining a virtually free technical education goes, but that actually requires some degree of technical skill to repair or use. I believe these attitudes have spawned a new generation of surplus dealers who, in many cases, know darn little about what they may have except how much they can make off it if they scrap it, or sell the parts to another reseller. Greed is, unfortunately, running rampant, and many good machines have suffered, and likely will continue to suffer, as a result. The best possible thing I think we can all do is keep rescuing what you can. Keep educating those who are curious about what you do, why you do it, and why those who are curious should be interested in tech history. If you meet up with someone who shows interest in the field, point them in a good direction to develop it! The worst possible thing I think any of us can do is alienate the very people who have access to "classic" equipment, and the power to decide what's done with it. This includes spewing vitriol at dealers via E-mail or in person, or treating what any of us might consider a "dumb" question from a curious youngster or adult as just that. As has been said before, "The only truly stupid question is the one that you keep to yourself." There are, and will always be, exceptions. The fellow who brought out a perfectly usable piece of gear, only to beat it to bits with a sledgehammer in front of the buyer, should be shown no mercy whatsoever. There's just no excuse for wanton destruction or waste in the name of spite. People who show little interest in a system other than "Can it run Windows?" may be beyond help. HOWEVER... I would not be sitting here now and typing this had it not been for several very wise and patient people who inspired me to pursue electronics as both a hobby and career. If I can, within my lifetime, inspire even one other person to follow a similar course, and to fight back against peer pressure, I'll be a happy camper. Keep the peace(es). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

26 years, 11 months

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IMSAI docs online?

by bill＠chipware.com

> Is there a scan of the IMSAI hardware manual online anywhere? Uh, "The Hardware Manual" doesn't seem to exist. There are manuals for the individual components by the board. I now have originals for the front panel (CPA), the power supply, the 8085 CPU board (MPU-B), and one of the floppy controllers (DIO-C). It looks like the imsai.net guy is trying to put stuff up. I'll scan what I have as I get the time and access to the scanner and send it to him. Bill Sudbrink

26 years, 11 months

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IMSAI docs online?

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Is there a scan of the IMSAI hardware manual online anywhere? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/17/99]

26 years, 11 months

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Dell "Oldest PC" winner on zdnet

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 8/21/99 9:51:14 PM US Eastern Standard Time, aknight(a)mindspring.com writes: > In spite of the pros/cons about the lawyer who turned > over his Altair for a WinPC, one good thing (I think) > that came out of this contest is publicity/awareness regarding > the preservation of classics. Case in point is that > when I got home last night and finally had a chance to > read yesterday's local paper, in the business section there was > an article about the Dell contest and the museum, including a photo > of one of the curator (David Weil) trying to bring up a Commodore PET. > While I wasn't surprised to hear about the contest & museum > on the 'net, I was quite surprised to read about it in a > local paper here in central North Carolina (right there next > to the news about Red Hat). It was an Associated Press article, > so it is bound to have appeared in other papers nationwide. > > FWIW, the article says that the museum has 200 "pieces", including > a 360 mainframe, "the KIM Homebrew computer, a kit which sold for > $25 ..." (I wonder if they dropped a zero), and a "Royal > Precision Vacuum Tube Computer" - described as being built in > 1963, with 113 vacuum tubes (sounds like a small number to me), > drom memory, disk, & paper tape reader. The article also said > there was some kind of storage disk from 1965 that was the > size of a tractor-trailer tire, holding 2.5 Mbytes, and had > to be sandblasted to be erased. (Huh???). > > Anyhow, this kind of awareness is a good thing, IMO. > well, awareness of old computers IS good, but like any hobby, once the speculators get involved, it's not a hobby anymore. eventually (and unfortunately) once the general populace mistakenly thinks that ANY old computer is worth hundreds or thousands of dollars it will be hard to find anything collectable cheaply. i'm trying to get a complete mac plus with the original boxes from my neighbor, but she's got that mindset and probably wont sell it for any realistic price although i try to downplay any investment value in computers.

26 years, 11 months

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bill@chipware.com

by bill＠chipware.com

> Someone asked me for help with his IMSAI box, including the front panel with > which you've recently done battle. Do you have a schematic available in > some machine-readable form? I'd like to help this guy but it's a bootstrap > situation. Until at least one or two things are functioning, you're working > blind. Yea, tell me about it! > If you could send or point me to a machine-readable schematic of this FP, > I'd be better able to encourage this fellow. I'd rather not foist him off > on you. I don't know of one on the net. After a lot of searching, the guy I got the IMSAI from found his schematics. We have a scanner at work. I'll see if I can get a good scan of it this week and email it to you. Bill Sudbrink

26 years, 11 months

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Another Question on Codar Clock

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>>See, for source code and documentation, >> >> ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/codar/ >Cool, Thanks Tim! Guess it's a good thing I wanted to use it on my RT-11 >system though :^) You'll find that the file CCSUBS.MAC is specifically for RSX-11. It also has a nice little table at the top, summarizing some of the programming differences between the Codar 101/102/120/150/151 models. >The Codar Clock board has a jumper to turn the battery power on and off for >the board. What good is this? Is this just a way to save the battery life >when the board isn't in a system? > >Is the board any good without the batteries? It doesn't seem to be, but... I have several different Codar boards, and they all have batteries set up slightly differently. I *think* my 120 has two independent sets of batteries, with a jumper to select which one is being used, to allow you to change batteries without disrupting the clock. >Considering I've no idea how ancient the batteries are, they amazingly >enough function well enough for me to be able to turn the system off for a >short period of time and back on. Not sure if they're strong enough for >longer periods. If they're like my Codar 120, they're lithium batteries, and good for 7 years or so. I got a new set from Radio Shack about two and a half years ago. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 11 months

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More (Heavy Duty) DEC Pro Docs Available

by djenner＠halcyon.com

You gotta be serious to want these. (a) They're heavy. (b) They're hard core. DEC Professional 300 Series Developer's Tool Kit Nine, 8.5"x11" three-ring binders full of everything you ever wanted to know about developing P/OS (aka RSX-11M+) applications on the DEC Pro. These are all Version 2.0 of the PRO/Tool Kit. You can get almost all the software (last version, 3.2) at ftp.update.uu.se or metalab.unc.edu. The only exception may be the Fortran compiler, which may be available there? (It does include MACRO.) These will take up about two banker's boxes to ship and probably will cost $20-$30 UPS Ground. I will add on a couple of bucks for packaging. If more than one person wants it, I will give preference to someone with something to trade: other DEC Pro hardware or software, or PDP-11/Q-Bus hardware or software/docs. Let me know if you're interested. Here is a detailed inventory of what is included: Professional Tool Kit PRO/Tool Kit Installation Guide and Release Notes Command Language and Utilities Manual RSX-11M/M-PLUS RMS-11 Utilities Manual Volume 1, Introduction Host Tool Kit Installation Guide and Release Notes Tool Kit User's Guide Tool Kit Reference Manual FMS-11/RSX Release Notes PRO/FMS-11 Documentation Supplement FMS-11/RSX Software Reference Manual Volume 2, Video Terminal Subsystem Manual CORE Graphics Library Manual PRO/GIDIS Manual Volume 3, Task Builder RSX-11M/M-PLUS Task Builder Manual Volume 4, P/OS System & TMS P/OS System Reference Manual TMS Programmer's Reference Manual Volume 5, PRO/RMS-11 PRO/RMS-11: An Introduction PRO/RMS-11 MACRO Programmer's Guide RSX-11M/M-PLUS RMS-11 User's Guide Volume 6, MACRO Program Development IAS/RSX-11 ODT Reference Manual Supplement IAS/RSX-11 ODT Reference Manual PDP-11 MACRO-11 Language Reference Manual Guide to Writing a P/OS I/O Driver and Advanced Programmer's Notes Volume 7, PRO-DECnet PRO/DECnet Tool Kit Release Notes Introduction to DECnet PRO/DECnet Tool Kit Installation Guide PRO/DECnet Programmer's Reference Manual Pro/Tool Kit FORTRAN-77 Pro/Tool Kit FORTRAN-77 Installation Guide and Documentation Supplement Language Reference User's Guide Object Time System All the binders are the gray originals except for the FORTRAN volume, which is an orange binder.

26 years, 11 months

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DEC Rainbow/colour monitor

by cdrmool＠interlog.com

I've gone through a number of old reviews of the Rainbow including the October 1984 issue of "Popular Computing" and see no mention of a touch screen. From my knowledge there was a choice of three monochrome monitors -amber, green, and white, and a colour monitor. Graphics modes also available. If there was a touch screen monitor available, I will have to alter my wish list. colan ____________________________________________________________________ Vintage Computer Collectors List and Info: http://members.xoom.com/T3C Mail us at: T3C(a)xoommail.com

26 years, 11 months

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Q-Bus Codar Clock

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Cool, Thanks Tim! Guess it's a good thing I wanted to use it on my RT-11 >system though :^) Have to give this a try once I get my floppy problem >solved. Though now that I've got TCP/IP working floppy support is less >important. About a year ago, I received from someone who had moved into the Mill complex in Maynard, *the* pdp-11/73 which had, until DEC moved out of the mill, monitored building temperatures and controlled various bits of the heating/cooling system. (It still has all the code on it, in source form no less -- MicroPower Pascal)... It has one of the Codar boards in it... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 11 months

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imsai 2 (but way OT)

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

I wrote: > > We put the internationally awe-inspiring name ACME on ours ;>) Tony Duell replied: > The only place those letters should appear in electronic equipment is on > a particular type of tuning indicator. That's funny! I'll be sure to rush down to city hall monday morning to change our company name! How about: Intelligent Machine Store of America, Inc. -- then we cound brand our systems "IMSAI" ;>) Glen Goodwin 0/0

26 years, 11 months

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Q-Bus Codar Clock

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>While digging through my spares a couple days I came across a very >interesting looking card. > >CODAR TECHNOLOGY INC. > >MODEL 120 CALENDAR CLOCK >ASM 951-1200 REV B >COPYRIGHT 1987 MADE IN USA > >Does anyone have any information on this card, and what OS's it can be used >with. Does it require special software? See, for source code and documentation, ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/codar/ You'll find the original distribution files (from README.1ST): The Model 120 Calendar Clock Source Kit contains: 1) files to build the programs STIME and RTIME, which set the calendar clock and initialize your operating system's date and time, respectively, RTIME . COM RT11/TSX-Plus command file STIME . MAC Source for STIME for all RT11/TSX-Plus systems RTIME . MAC Source for RTIME for RT11 V4.0 and later (and TSX-Plus) 2) subroutines used by RTIME and STIME to read and set the calendar clock, CCSUBS . MAC Source for subroutines used by RTIME as well as the file CODAR.DIFF, which has the Y2K patches I did a few years back to the sources. Now that you've got TCP/IP working under RT-11, I'll also post my "NBSTIM" source - it goes out and queries a National Bureau of Standards time server for current UTC time and date over the network, converts it to local time, and uses it to check or set the -11's clocks. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 11 months

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Dell "Oldest PC" winner on zdnet

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Sure, but the Dell machine is worth considerably more at the moment. So <it's a good deal. If he's going for the long term investment, he could <sell it immediately and re-invest the money in 4 more Altairs...

26 years, 11 months

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bill@chipware.com

by edick＠idcomm.com

Someone asked me for help with his IMSAI box, including the front panel with which you've recently done battle. Do you have a schematic available in some machine-readable form? I'd like to help this guy but it's a bootstrap situation. Until at least one or two things are functioning, you're working blind. If you could send or point me to a machine-readable schematic of this FP, I'd be better able to encourage this fellow. I'd rather not foist him off on you. regards, Dick -----Original Message----- From: Bill Sudbrink <bill(a)chipware.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, July 16, 1999 4:05 PM Subject: IT'S ALIVE! (IMSAI) >I meant to post this Tuesday, but things got busy. >My IMSAI is up with the front panel, CPU and >memory card. I can now reliably do all front >panel operations and can toggle in and run short >programs on either the 8K SRAM or 64K DRAM card >(only one in the box at a time). For those keeping >score: > >Replaced all chips on the front panel. All are >now socketed. > >Replaced two switches on the front panel. > >Routed several traces around burned or otherwise >damaged spots on the front panel. > >And... (this is the kicker) >Re-patched the MWRITE circuit. The original (and >incorrect) patch brought the SOUT signal to U25 >pin 5. What was actually required at U25 pin 5 >was NOT-SOUT. > >So next, I suppose, is to get the MIO working >(at least the serial port) so I can get a terminal >on this baby. If anybody has MIO REV.2 schematics, >it might make my life easier. To begin with, all the >chips on this card are socketed. It is a very neatly >and carefully done soldering job. The following chips >are missing: U8, U11, U30 and U34. I can see the >silkscreens for U30 (74LS32) and U34 (8T20), but the >sockets hide the silkscreens for U8 and U11. Does the >absence of these chips simply indicate that one of the >functions of this board is disabled? > >Thanks, >Bill Sudbrink

26 years, 11 months

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Damn fools (was Re: Dell "Oldest PC" winner on zdnet)

by max82＠surfree.com

>Yes, this is politics. Just remember that its a good idea to have friends >in high places. Having enemies up there does no good to anyone, but with >a little responsibility, is easily avoided. Also known as "Don't burn your bridges behind you"...

26 years, 11 months

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Dell "Oldest PC" winner on zdnet

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<>> > The Altair is being donated to the Computer Museum of America in Mesa <>> > California. <>> <>> La Mesa! <> <>Is this the same Computer museum that parted out some PDP monsters <>for saleable souveniers? < < Oh you've GOT to be kidding. Tell me you're not serious. < < -Dave McGuire I ask the question, not knowing the answer. I do hope I'm very mistaken. Allison

26 years, 11 months

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Parting out VAX 11/750

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Guys: There's a VAX 11/750 that will soon be parted out. If there are any tid-bits of this thing you want, please LMK via private e-mail. (Don't ask for the whole thing, it's the size of a small refrigerator, and weighs just as much). Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 11 months

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Dell "Oldest PC" winner on zdnet

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> Is this the same Computer museum that parted out some PDP monsters <> for saleable souveniers? <> <> Allison <> < <I have a hazy recollection of that event, but I don't think(?) it is the <same one. This one exists in conjunction with Coleman College - computer <training. < I'm happy to hear that. TCM does not rank high on my list of, things to do to historical items. Preserving history, understanding it is very difficult and an active wholsale destruction of any machine for money is the same as tomb raiding for gold. Allison

26 years, 11 months

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FW: PDP11 documentation and test code on paper tape

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>>>DEC PDP-11/20 DR11-C Engineering Drawings > 11/20 print sets!! AGH!! He's trying to confuse us: the DR11-C is *not* an 11/20. I think he has the DR11-C (M786+M105+M7821) print set, which is far, far way from an 11/20 (KA11) print set. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 11 months

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Re. imsai 2

by edick＠idcomm.com

Sooner or later, someone will bring in a TI "Speak-N-Spell" which was one of the most important mass-produced electronic toys of the '70's. Once they become rare enough that they bring a good price, lots of plastic-packaged electronics will appear, right along with those Ming-dynasty vases. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, August 21, 1999 12:37 PM Subject: Re: Re. imsai 2 >> > I think that it's a load of crap. Old computers for the masses. Ruins it >> > for the rest of us. Next thing you know, the Antiques Road Show will have an >> > "antique computer" eposode. >> >> Um, from what I heard, someone on the Roadshow said within the last year >> that computers will become the next hot collectable. Someone locally here >> told me that (I didn't see the show myself). So it's too late for fear, >> move straight on ahead to loathing. > >Certainly on the UK version of the programme, somebody brought along a >Sinclair calculator, and one of the 'experts' said that these machines >were becoming ever more collectable. I've never seen any electronic >equipment on the programme apart from that, though. > >-tony >

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Q-Bus Codar Clock

by edick＠idcomm.com

If I'm not mistaken, this one was built for us when I was with Martin Marietta, working on a JPL project to militarize uVAX-II hardware in our customized packaging. It works with VMS, and I doubt there was little else done with it in conjunction with our project. I worked on other parts of the system (rotating memory), but that company, located in Longmont, CO, I believe, may still be in business. Codar built the customized backplanes for us to use in our portable and extreme-temperature tolerant boxes, along with a few other odds & ends. I once was called upon to rectify a problem with one of their switch panels, which I did with a resistor array (a minor oversight). Dick -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, August 21, 1999 11:19 AM Subject: Q-Bus Codar Clock >While digging through my spares a couple days I came across a very >interesting looking card. > >CODAR TECHNOLOGY INC. > >MODEL 120 CALENDAR CLOCK >ASM 951-1200 REV B >COPYRIGHT 1987 MADE IN USA > >Does anyone have any information on this card, and what OS's it can be used >with. Does it require special software? > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 11 months

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Hacker tea (was Re: Late Nights and Caffeine)

by edick＠idcomm.com

So . . . Linux will use the parallel port to turn on the coffee maker, but who'll fetch, measure, mix, and grind the beans? When does it clean out the coffee pot and put the old coffee in the house-plants? What about the filter? Hmmmm? Dick -----Original Message----- From: John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 8:43 AM Subject: Re: Hacker tea (was Re: Late Nights and Caffeine) >At 11:05 PM 8/16/99 -0400, LordTyran wrote: >> >>As stupid/crazy/cool as it seems, there is a Linux-Coffeemaker-HOWTO. >>Tells you how to use an SCR or a relay to hook up your coffee makes to >>your parallel port, add a /dev/coffeemaker entry (basically a ln to >>/dev/parX) and add a cron daemon entry to make your coffee each morning. > >X-10 stuff is more flexible and probably less expensive. I jumped >for the $6 promo news-ertised on Slashdot a few weeks ago, and have >been sorely tempted to buy more, so I guess the plan worked. The >offer is still up there. > >What? No one's going to stand up and defend the ice-cold can of >Diet Mountain Dew? > >- John >

26 years, 11 months

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HP2100 core memory problems

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

Well, once again I come to the well for knowledge.....:) Seeking advice from those up on core memory I'm kinda lost on checking out the memory in my HP 2100. I have two 2100's, each with four 8K boards or 32k per machine. I had lots of parity errors so I lined up all eight 8K boards on the bench and reconfigured the memory controller for 8K total rather than 32K (test one board at a time). I put in one of the boards and ran a small memory test (not a diag tape, but a core memory test from the CE guide via the front panel).The core test has three "controlling" locations, one location for the first address to test, one for the last address, and then how many cycles per memory location. A cycle is defined as writing all zeros, read, and compare - then writing all ones, read, and compare all on a single location. Here's the symptoms. The full test of 8K takes about 2 hours (with a cycle of 3). On different boards it gets to different locations before the parity error halt. So far mostly at the middle or end, I don't recall it ever parity halting towards the beginning. I'll get a parity error halt on say location 012336 for example. I then manually go to the failing location and try storing different values in the location and reading them back out (all via the front panel). Most of the time this gives a parity error like you would expect. But - many times it doesn't. Then just for kicks I restart the diagnostic a few locations lower (like 012320 in this example) than the failing location. It fails right away usually (like location 012322), quite a few cells before the location which originally failed. This causes me great confusion, because it's actually now failing on addresses which previously tested OK just a few minutes ago on the previous test pass. Every 8K board I have exhibits this problem, but all at different locations. Supposedly both machines worked fine before they were put in storage 20 years ago, so these weren't picked up out of a junk heap or anything. Cosmetically they're beautiful inside and out. I've also tried switching the XY driver boards, the memory controller, etc. etc. but I can't seem to get anything stable enough to start intelligently swapping parts when every combination is bad. In case it matters, each 8K board is 17 bits per word (1 parity plus 16 data bits). Also, it isn't a complete failure - I've keyed in many other programs from the front panel and read in paper tapes (a suite of I/O tests and such) that all run fine so I know the system is somewhat coherent. I've checked the power supply for the memory cage and it's supposed to be 20 volts - my VOM came up with 20.48 ISTR, which is probably close enough I would think. Can anyone suggest a course of action or possible culprits in this situation? I suspect I can't see the forest for the trees anymore :) Thanks! Jay West

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Re. imsai 2

by rcini＠msn.com

On Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:29:34 -0500, Jeffrey l Kaneko <jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com> wrote: >I had several conversations with Tom Fischer over the last {snip} >>Not to mention recent E-Bay prices. Amen to that. The recent prices are certainly an incentive for one to try his hand again. > And, could the "mainframe" actually cost that much?? > Switches: 22@$5=$110. PS=$50. Backplane=$75. Sheetmetal=$250. >FP=$100. Maybe I have a warped idea of what this stuff costs, but I was >expecting a lower number. >>I dunno, your price breakdown sounds alright to me. Mebbe he >>figured that these are 'hand crafted' hence have some kinda snob >>appeal. As Tim mentioned, my PS number is low. I was figuring on the included ATX PeeCee power supply. I'd bet the transformer alone in the old IMSAIs was *at least* the $50. I also agree with the snob appeal, although I don't know if it would be the "hand-made" part, or alternatively, about "it was made by the same guy who made the old ones." > I have some old S100 cards to play around with, but I only > have a non-working Northstar Horizon. So, I would be Tom's target > audience. I would prefer a kit, though, since I have the skill level > and interest to assemble one myself. >>Well that was the whole point, wasn't it, eh? You built it yourself >>because you a) Had more time than money or b) That's the only way >>you could get it. I dunno about you, but I certainly fell into the >>'more time than money' category (and *still* couldn't afford it). >> >>I believe his target audience has 'more money than {time | brains}'. >>I dunno Rich, I always figured you as a pretty smart guy. Maybe >>on a budget, too. Would be better just to buy the 'unique' bits, >>and piece one together yourself (utilizing the PSU of your choice). Thanks for the compliment :-) I wasn't focused on computers when the original IMSAI was available. I was about , dunno, maybe 11. So, I certainly didn't have the money. I did have time, though. Now, I have much less time and more money, but I'd still prefer to build my own. $$$ are always a concern, but the deal with my wife is what ever I make from freelance computer writing, I can use for my hobby. Sweet deal, huh?? A custom PS would be nice (I've always liked building power supplies). I wouldn't be opposed to piecing a system together myself, but by the time you piece together the HTF parts (such as the FP, the backplane, and the case), you have 70% of the unit. I think that an unassembled kit for $599 would be OK. >>BTW, what's wrong with your Horizon (just curious)? Don't really know. I have no info on some of the boards, so I don't know if the jumpers are set for the right addresses. I also can't verify that the backplane serial ports work, or even if the on-board ports work or floppy controller works. Power supply is good, though :). Basically I'm in the dark. I gave up last year because I started to renovate the basement. Now that that's done, this winter, I'll probably start fiddling with it again. Somewhere around here, I have a list of my boards I can send you. Most of the boards are Vector Graphics (ZCB, RAM, ROM), though. > Conclusion: although I want an IMSAI badly, I don't think > that I'm prepared to spend $1k for an out-of-the-box non-functional > machine. >>Ah yes, as I suspected, you're way too smart to be drawn into this >>'Techno chic' marketing shtick. That's all it is: chic. This guy's >>just trying to 'make hay while the sun shines'. I think that it's a load of crap. Old computers for the masses. Ruins it for the rest of us. Next thing you know, the Antiques Road Show will have an "antique computer" eposode. > If I were buying an "old" non-functional IMSAI, at least I could > restore it to functioning status. I wouldn't pay $1k for that one, > either. >>True, although this would be the way to go, assuming the price is >>right. Even if you just have a pile of old boards, as i said before, >>just get the 'unique' stuff, then fill in the gaps with off-the-shelf >>items. That's essentially what we did in the old days. This would be my ideal project. Just as long as the FP fascia is intact, I think that I could handle everything else. I have a huge box of random S100 cards just waiting for a working home... ----------------------------------- [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ <---------------------------- reply separator

26 years, 11 months

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Comments? Proper way to (un)subscribe CLASSICCMP

by jon＠techniche.com

Can someone refresh my memory as to the proper procedure to subscribe & unsubscribe from this list? I need a break to catch up on my e-mail !! Thanks, Jon

26 years, 11 months

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Hacker tea (was Re: Late Nights and Caffeine)

by max82＠surfree.com

Brian L. Stuart wrote: > And bringing it full circle, Brazil is the name of the latest > research OS at Bell Labs from the same folks who brought you > UNIX. They seem to take great pride in naming systems with > names that make marketing cringe. The predecessor to Brazil > was Plan 9 after the infamous sci-fi movie Plan 9 From Outer > Space. Any data on this BrazilOS?

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Q-Bus Codar Clock

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

While digging through my spares a couple days I came across a very interesting looking card. CODAR TECHNOLOGY INC. MODEL 120 CALENDAR CLOCK ASM 951-1200 REV B COPYRIGHT 1987 MADE IN USA Does anyone have any information on this card, and what OS's it can be used with. Does it require special software? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 11 months

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FW: PDP11 documentation and test code on paper tape

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Lots of useful goodies. I just wish he'd offered them up here first before dumping them on E-pay. Anyway, have a look... -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On Thu, 19 Aug 1999 17:49:35 +1700, in alt.sys.pdp11 you wrote: >>Hi, >> >>For auction on ebay : >>DEC PDP-11/04 TRAP INSTRUCTIONS TEST PROGRAM >>DEC PDP-11/04 CPU TEST CODE ON PAPER TAPE >>DEC PDP RK11/RK05 PERFORMANCE EXERCISER CODE >>DEC PDP-11 M9301 M9400 BOOTSTRAP DIAG CODE >>DEC PDP-11/34 SYSTEM USER'S MANUAL >>DEC PDP-11/04 SYSTEM USER'S MANUAL >>DEC PDP-11 MS11-E-J MOS MEMORY maint. man. >>DEC M9301 PROM/BOOTSTAP/TERMINATOR card doc >>DEC PDP11/04 Engineering Drawings (complete) >>DEC business cards holder (came with PDP doc) >>DEC PDP-11 M9312 Engineering Drawings >>DEC PDP-11 M9312 Module technical manual >>DEC PDP-11/20 DR11-C Engineering Drawings >>DEC PDP-11 RK11-D Engineering Drawings >>DEC PDP-11 RK05J Engineering Drawings >>Check : >>http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=ebay%40cur… >> >>Thank you. >>s. >> >> >>* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * >>The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."

26 years, 11 months

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Re. imsai 2

by edick＠idcomm.com

You can't have it both ways, fellows. If you don't want the "old" stuff to become plentiful in the sense that there are viable copies available which, in a sense, water down the market, and hold down the prices, then eBay will set the prices, and you know what that means. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Richard A. Cini <rcini(a)msn.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, August 21, 1999 5:06 AM Subject: Re. imsai 2 >On Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:20:14 -0700 (PDT), Sellam Ismail ><dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> wrote > >> I think that it's a load of crap. Old computers for the masses. Ruins >it >> for the rest of us. Next thing you know, the Antiques Road Show will have >>an "antique computer" eposode. > >>>Um, from what I heard, someone on the Roadshow said within the last >>year >that computers will become the next hot collectable. Someone >>>locally here told me that (I didn't see the show myself). So it's too >late >>>for fear, move straight on ahead to loathing. > > Aw, crap...there goes the neighborhood. > >Rich > >----------------------------------- >[ Rich Cini/WUGNET >[ ClubWin!/CW7 >[ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking >[ Collector of "classic" computers >[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ ><---------------------------- reply separator > > > >

26 years, 11 months

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Re. imsai 2

by rcini＠msn.com

On Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:20:14 -0700 (PDT), Sellam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> wrote > I think that it's a load of crap. Old computers for the masses. Ruins it > for the rest of us. Next thing you know, the Antiques Road Show will have >an "antique computer" eposode. >>Um, from what I heard, someone on the Roadshow said within the last >>year that computers will become the next hot collectable. Someone >>locally here told me that (I didn't see the show myself). So it's too late >>for fear, move straight on ahead to loathing. Aw, crap...there goes the neighborhood. Rich ----------------------------------- [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ <---------------------------- reply separator

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CLASSICCMP digest 870 -Reply

by cutler＠nmah.si.edu

I will be on vacation from Aug 23 to Sept 15 and will get back to you after that date. I apologize for the delay.

26 years, 11 months

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(for sale) MacWEEKs, Apple developer's CDs

by tom＠tgeller.com

Time for spring cleaning (yeah, yeah, I know I'm late). Here are some items bound to fascinate those interested in Apple and Macintosh history. * Two years of MacWEEK issues, Jan. 1996-Jan. 1998. Amazing stuff. * Five years (!) of Apple's Developer CD-ROMs. Load every System since 7.0! Tiptoe through the corpses of Dylan, OpenDoc, Rhapsody and PowerTalk! Both series are more or less complete, and in a San Francisco location. Available to the best offer. --Tom Geller tom(a)tgeller.com --- Tom Geller, San Francisco, http://www.tgeller.com Write for sign-up info for my mailing lists: (1) Personal news, (2) Business-related news, (3) Discussion about suing spammers.

26 years, 11 months

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Parting out VAX 11/750

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

The parts for the VAX 11/750 have been claimed; all involved parties will be notified of what turns up. Thanks Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 11 months

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Re. imsai 2

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:20:14 -0700 (PDT) Sellam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> writes: >On Fri, 20 Aug 1999, Richard A. Cini wrote: > >> I think that it's a load of crap. Old computers for the masses. >Ruins it >> for the rest of us. Next thing you know, the Antiques Road Show will >have an >> "antique computer" eposode. > >Um, from what I heard, someone on the Roadshow said within the last >year >that computers will become the next hot collectable. Someone locally >here >told me that (I didn't see the show myself). So it's too late for >fear, >move straight on ahead to loathing. It's the END OF the WORLD as we know it, (and I feel fine . . ). ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 11 months

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FS: mVaxII, mVax2000, grey wall - $50.00

by therunk17＠earthlink.net

I just got the message, are they still available? If so, I'm interested and how big are the units? Ron ---------- >From: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) >To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Subject: FW: FS: mVaxII, mVax2000, grey wall - $50.00 >Date: Tue, Aug 10, 1999, 10:31 AM > > Fellow here has some good VAXen stuff pretty cheap. Contact directly > if you're interested. > > -=-=- <snip> -=-=- > > On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:02:10 GMT, in comp.os.vms you wrote: > >>>From: wetboy <wetboy(a)shore.net> >>>Subject: FS: mVaxII, mVax2000, grey wall - $50.00 >>>Newsgroups: comp.os.vms >>>User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980618 (UNIX) (SunOS/4.1.4 (sun4m)) >>>Lines: 29 >>>Message-ID: <SETr3.1282$EG4.221700(a)news.shore.net> >>>Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:02:10 GMT >>>NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.233.85.1 >>>X-Complaints-To: abuse(a)shore.net >>>X-Trace: news.shore.net 934282930 192.233.85.1 (Tue, 10 Aug 1999 07:02:10 EDT) >>>NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 07:02:10 EDT >>>Organization: Shore.Net/Eco Software, Inc; (info(a)shore.net) >>>Path: > news1.jps.net!news.pbi.net!165.87.194.248!newsfeed.us.ibm.net!ibm.net!news.m axwell.sy > r.edu!news.shore.net!not-for-mail >>>Xref: news1.jps.net comp.os.vms:785 >>> >>>MicroVax II: >>> >>> BA123 case >>> RD53 >>> 9 MB ram >>> TK50 >>> VMS 5.3 >>> >>>MicroVax 2000: >>> >>> RD32 >>> 6 MB ram (IIRC) >>> VMS 4.5B >>> >>> >>>VT320, LA75 >>> >>>Most of VMS 5.0 "grey wall" (some >>>notebooks later than 5.0). >>> >>> >>>All for $50.00 >>> >>>Pick up near Portsmouth, New Hampshire. >>> >>>E-mail me if you are interested. >>> >>> >>>-- Wetboy > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, > Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com > Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com > "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, > event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define > any of them..." > >

26 years, 11 months

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Unibus Grant COntinuity Cards

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

These are G727A's. ANybody need some? Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 11 months

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Whats this??

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

ANybody know what a Xeros X967 or X968 is? Is it historically important? ANybody need parts? It seems to be an 8085 based machine, but it's hard to tell for sure, with all of the rust. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 11 months

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To: Data General Fiends

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Guys: I spotted some 8" floppy drives that may have been used with the ECLIPSE. If anyone is interested in these, please contact me via private E-Mail. They are big drive units, two drives in the box, painted this 'airforce' blue color, with these funny 'doors' on them. The serial plates say they're model AF6030. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 11 months

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Still more PBX stuff.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<[CO wasn't talking to me?] < <Not sure how it determined it, but it sensed the CO wasn't there. <(Minor Network Alarm is what the panel indicated.) Probably what <you said. No loop voltage. Easyist thing to sense. Allison

26 years, 11 months

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Dell "Oldest PC" winner on zdnet

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I stumbled across the following link on the zdnet web site <about a lawyer with a MITS Altair 8800b who was awarded <Dell's prize in a contest for the "oldest working PC" : < <http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2317770,00.html < <The computer is going to a museum, and Dell gave <him a new computer. I remember the contest and kept my Horizon and explorere8085 out of the running as I wished to keep them. A PC would not a be a welcome exchange. Allison

26 years, 11 months

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Article on old software programs (for IBM, Apple, Borland, etc)

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well, we're not quite there yet, though that fellow (what's his name . . . ), the CEO of Oracle, is promoting a situation in which you'd not buy software at all but would simply search for what you wanted, buy it "by the drink" over the net, and run it once, repeating the process, and paying for it each time you use it. I certainly hope that such a scenario is not where we're headed. The technology has been in front of us for some time, and what's prevented this so far is the FPGA vendors' tight hold on how to configure their products. Once that cat's out of the bag, someone will surely try this, since he can then incorporate his configuration generator into his software hierarchy. That will certainly put an end to the question of which CPU runs which application the best, since the application will then be integrated with the configuration of hardware which suits it the best. Dick -----Original Message----- From: John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 12:45 PM Subject: Re: Article on old software programs (for IBM, Apple, Borland, etc) >At 11:04 AM 8/20/99 -0600, Richard Erlacher wrote: >> >>I don't think we'll have to wait long for a situation to arise, in which one >>links to a site on the web, is fed a download of configuration data which >>defines how the system on which one's running is to be defined, then reads >>the code which will be executed on the specifically configured "hardware" >>environment. Instead of the hardware defining how the software must be >>configured, the software will define the way in which the hardware addresses >>its requirements. > >It's already here. The Transmeta CPU could work that way. >Field-programmable gate arrays (Xilinx chips) have existed for >many years, so who knows how they're being used. > >For example, the circa 1992 Video Toaster for the Amiga relied >heavily on these chips to perform real-time video manipulations. >Load a new transition, reprogram the array. > >- John >

26 years, 11 months

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M7865 question.

by ebrens＠dds.nl

Hello, It reads 'Unibus 2 word out' on the back, and the DEC module field guide doesn't provide with additional information. What is it used for ? thanks, Erikb.

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imsai 2

by edick＠idcomm.com

Nope, what I'm referring to is the retail outlet of a "real" electronics supplier, e.g. Newark, etc. I haven't bought components from RS since the late '70's when we bought some regulators, I think there were several hundred because they were the only ones who could ship them promptly. We found after testing about a hundred, that none of the ones we tested were in tolerance. I have bought nibblers, a soldering iron, a neat little wirewrap tool for the briefcase (discontinued because it was too good) and a solder-sucker from RS since then, notice I remember EVERY item. Not one component is on the list. I'd almost wager that none of their 5% resistors fall within 5%. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, August 19, 1999 3:56 PM Subject: Re: imsai 2 >> >> The joke is on the one who tries to buy from a "real" elelctronics shop, >> where 1/4-watt resistors cost upwards of a buck . . . and the first item on >> the list costs $100 because that's their minimum. > >That sounds like RatShack, not an electronics shop :-). Over here, >resistors cost 3p (say 5 cents) each in 10-off quantities (0.6W, 1%). > >The only time I've payed nearly a pound for a resistor is when it was >either precision (0.1% ones are a lot more expensive) or high power (50W >metal-cased ones, for example). > >-tony >

26 years, 11 months

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imsai 2 (but way OT)

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

In a message dated 08/19/1999 5:57:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > But, by 'computer shop', I meant the sort of place that sells no-name PCs We put the internationally awe-inspiring name ACME on ours ;>) > The sort of place that will try to sell you a new printer rather than a > ribbon for your old one. Those places never sell useful spares like fans. I think I know the place you're referring to -- "You're in luck cause we only have one of these babies left . . . it was the floor model . . . my boss told me to find it a good home . . . somebody like you . . . can have it for $$$" Fortunately we have a great relationship with one of these establishments -- if they can't shake all the money out of someone by selling them a new box, they send them to us to repair their old unit. They also don't sell fans, odd cables, etc., but we do, and we sell stuff out of our junk bin every day >from their referrals. I guess they deserve their place in the food chain too. Anyway thanks for the clarification and I'm glad to know you don't paint us all with the same brush ;>) Glen Goodwin ACME Enterprises 0/0

26 years, 11 months

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imsal 2

by edick＠idcomm.com

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, August 19, 1999 4:58 PM Subject: Re: imsal 2 <snip> >> to claim you have an ALTAIR computer running in your basement then what's >> down there had best be ALTAIR stuff, not just an ALTAIR CPU in a Morrow box >> with a CCS FDC and a COMPUPRO serial board. > >Of course in the 'real world' it was very common to find a mix of boards >in a particular box. > >> >> If you have an Integrand box, I guess you can call your computer an >> Integrand no matter what's in it, since they only made the boxes, right? >> >> I think that's the mentality that drives the eBay prices up. If you have a >> VERY pretty Daimler Benz hood ornament, with Chevrolet wheels, a Ford >> engine, a BMW emblem on the rear bonnet of a Corvair, with a Corvette >> steering wheel, what do you call your car (not that those parts would play >> together) ? For the collector, it's VERY important that all the parts fit, >> not just essentially, but exactly. That means that if IMSAI made one >> (whatever that might be), your system isn't complete without it. > >But most collectors only seem to care about the name on the front... > >Suppose you had an Altair with Altair CPU, RAM, PROM, serial I/O, disks, >etc. And a no-name S100 box with Compupro CPU, Vector Graphic memory, >Micromation disk, Tarbell tape, CASU serial, etc. > >Now put all the Altair cards into the no-name box. And the other cards in >the Altair box. > >Which do you think would fetch the higher price on E-bay? > I would be surprised if the higher bid didn't go for the Imsai box, rather than the original card set, but, if your card set happened to be spotted by a "collector" he'd undoubtedly bid however much it took to get the boards he was lacking, even if he had to buy your whole set. If that was $10k more than the box, well, it depends on things other than your preference and mine. > >> If you restore your '57 Chevy with parts carefully sought out at the >> junkyards within a 1000 mile radius of your home, and with "real" parts and >> real lead in the body work, and original upholstery, etc, it's not the same >> as the one built from whatever after-market parts you could find. It may >> look good, but it isn't "real" is it? > >One point here, though, is that users (who were most often hackers at >that time) did use other cards when the machine was 'new'. It's not like >taking said car and putting (somehow) a modern Ford engine in it. It's like >taking the car and fitting a standard (for the time) tune-up kit - >something that plenty of owners (presumably) did. > >I feel there is a place in a collection for both 'as the manufacturer >intended' and 'as the users generally used' machines. A lot of museums >ignore the latter category, though, which could lead to a mistaken >impression as to what really went on. > You're right about that, Tony, but it's a good idea to keep in mind, at least when dealing with Altair and IMSAI, that the Altair stuff is, for the most part, the worst kind of junk, always was and always will be, yet it was good enough to function, sorta, and only after you fixed it, and, being first to do that, it is the "original" while IMSAI stuff which was, from what I've seen, about as good as any you could get, though the style was definitely "early TTL" style, with one-shots, and enough rough edges, design-wise, to raise your eyebrows from time to time. The difference is easily summed up in that the IMSAI was designed by someone who know how to make a circuit that worked while the guys who designed the MITS stuff only knew how to make a circuit. > Dick >

26 years, 11 months

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