- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by dchopper＠mindspring.com

I hope this is the correct place to ask this question. If not, please direct me elsewhere. Is there anyone out there that is familiar with the little Panasonic Hand Held Computer (RL-H1000 series) that came out in the early eighties? More specifically, can it be adapted to use some type of conventional printer to bypass the little thermal printer (RL-P1004A) that was designed for it? There seems to be a surprising number of these computers still in use out there in many two-way radio shops. The HHC was the heart of GE's 'suitcase programmer' for setting the frequencies in their early models of synthesized radios. The print heads in these printers fail, so you can't get a printout of the frequency information that has been read >from the radio or going to be written into the radio. It does not make the programmer useless, but it would be handy to be able to get hard copies again. Thanks for any help! - David -

26 years, 9 months

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Classic BYTEs for Sale

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

I have a pretty complete series of BYTEs from 1982 until 1998 that need to find a new library to add their immense body of computer history knowledge to. Pricing does not include shipping unless specifically mentioned. Priority will go to buyers wanting to take entire runs (ie. someone wanting to buy an entire year will get priority over someone wanting to buy one or two issues for that year). Please reply directly to <sellam(a)vintage.org> or <dastar(a)wco.com>. Replies to this message to ClassicCmp will not even be seen by me, and will therefore be ignored. Repeat: REPLIES TO CLASSICCMP WILL BE IGNORED. APR,MAY/1982 - $2.00 each JAN-DEC/83 - $2.00 each or $18 for the whole set JAN-DEC/84 - $2.00 each or $18 for the whole set JAN-DEC/85 - $1.50 each or $15 for the whole set JAN-DEC/86 - $1.00 each or $12 for the whole set JAN-DEC/87 - $0.75 each or $5 for the whole set JAN-DEC/88 - $0.50 each or $5 for the whole set JAN-DEC/89 - $0.50 each or $5 for the whole set JAN-DEC/90 - 1.2 * shipping (whole set only please) JAN-DEC/91 - 1.2 * shipping (whole set only please) JAN-DEC/92 - 1.2 * shipping (whole set only please) JAN-DEC/93 - 1.2 * shipping (whole set only please) JAN-DEC/94 - 1.2 * shipping (whole set only please) JAN-DEC/95 - 1.2 * shipping (whole set only please) Also available are these special editions: 1984 IBM PC Special Issue: Guide to the IBM PCs - $3.00 1985 IBM PC Special Issue: Guide to the IBM PCs - $2.00 1986 Extra Edition Guide to the IBM PCs - $1.00 1987 Extra Edition Guide to the IBM PCs - $1.00 1987 Bonus Edition: Applications Software Today - $1.00 1988 IBM Special Edition - $1.00 1989 IBM Special Edition: Redefining the Standards - $1.00 1990 IBM Special Edition: Guideposts for the 90s - $1.00 1991 Extra Edition: Outlook '92 - $1.00 1992 Special Issue: Essential Guide to Windows - $3.00 1992 Special Issue: Essential Guide to Portable Computing - $1.00 1993 Spring '93 Special Issue: Essential Guide to Windows - $1.00 Remember: Reply to <sellam(a)vintage.org> or <dastar(a)wco.com>. To help you decide which issues you want, here's a handy guide that shows the issue topic that is printed on the binding of each issue: 04/82: Human Factors Engineering 08/82: Logo 01/83: Looking Ahead 02/83: Standards 03/83: Mass Storage 04/83: New Chips 05/83: The Electronic Office 06/83: 16-bit Designs 07/83: Videotex 08/83: The C Language 09/83: Portable Computers 10/83: Unix 11/83: Inside the IBM PC 12/83: Easy Software 01/84: 1984 and Beyond 02/84: Benchmarks 03/84: Simulation 04/84: Real-World Interfacing 05/84: Computers and the Professions 06/84: Computers and Education 07/84: Computers and Video 08/84: Modula-2 09/84: Computer Graphics 10/84: Databases 11/84: New Chips 12/84: Communications/Byte Guide to Apple PCs 01/85: Through the Hourglass 02/85: Computing and the Sciences 03/85: Bargain Computing 04/85: Artificial Intelligence 05/85: Multiprocessing 06/85: Programming Techniques 07/85: Computers and Space 08/85: Declarative Languages 09/85: Homebrewing/10th Anniversary (* great historical issue!) 10/85: Simulating Society 11/85: Graphics Hardware 12/85: Computer Conferencing 01/86: Robotics 02/86: Text Processing 03/86: Homebound Computing 04/86: Number Crunching 05/86: Mass Sotrage 06/86: Computers and Music 07/86: Engineer's Toolbox 08/86: Object-Oriented Languages 09/86: The 68000 Family 10/86: Public Domain Powerhouses 11/86: Knowledge Representation 12/86: Graphics Algorithms 01/87: Programmable Hardware 02/87: Educational Computing 03/87: Image Processing 04/87: Instruction Set Strategies 05/87: Desktop Publishing * Internal Modems 06/87: CAD * Mice * 12-Mhz ATs * IBM PS/2 Family 07/87: LANs * IBM PS/2 Models 30,50,60 * CAD Software 08/87: Prolog * 386 Hardware and Software 09/87: Printer Technologies * 80386 System Software 10/87: Heuristic Algorithms * Tandy's New Lineup 11/87: Accelerator Boards * Workstations 12/87: AT Memory Boards * Natural Language Processing 01/88: Database Software * Managing Megabytes 02/88: 14 Multiscan Monitors * LISP 03/88: New Math Coprocessors * Enhanced EGA/VGA Boards 04/88: Memory Management * 24-pin Printers 05/88: CPU Architectures * Word Processors 06/88: New Benchmarks * Ultra-High-Speed Modems 07/88: Multitasking * Fast 40-megabyte Hard Disks 08/88: The C Language * Special Macintosh Supplement 09/88: Display Technology * Postscript Printers 10/88: Hypertext * Affordable 80386s 11/88: Parallel Processing * NeXT * Project Management 12/88: Mac Supplement * Groupware * Benchmark Update 01/89: PC Communications * Annual Awards * Digitizing Tablets 02/89: Personal Workstations * C Compilers * Mac SE/30 03/89: Mac Supplement * 286 vs. 386SX * Object-Oriented Programming 04/89: CASE * UPSes * Graphics Supplement 05/89: Unix * CAD * Technology Breakthroughs 06/89: Mac Supplement * Security * Modems 07/89: 12 GUIs * LAN OSes * Distributed Processing 08/89: 80386-based Portables * Neural Networks * Mac Supplement 09/89: Apricot 80486 * Multiuser Operating Systems * Database Trends 10/89: Mac Portable * Optical Technologies * Optical Storage 11/89: Inside EISA * Beyond VGA * 32 Bits and Above 12/89: 5 New Laptops * Sound and Image Processing * CASE Tools 01/90: Annual Awards * Harddisk Utilities * State of Chips 02/90: Annual Index * Multimedia * Great Spreadsheets 03/90: 26 VGA Monitors * Compaq Systempro * Life within 1 Megabyte 04/90: OS/2 2.0 * Applications Architecture * 386 Roundup 05/90: SQL Servers * Amiga 3000 * Global Text Displays 06/90: Windows 3.0 * Networking * Low-cost LANs 07/90: Computing Without Keyboards * Low-cost Lasers * Reader's Awards 08/90: 386SX Showdown * Inside Windows 3.0 * End-user Programming 09/90: 15th Anniversary Summit * WYSIWYG Word Processors 10/90: DTP * Object-Oriented Computing * Knowledge Engineering 11/90: Mass Storage * Large SCSI Drives * FPUs 12/90: Laser Printer Alternatives * Advanced Graphics 01/91: Annual Awards * Artificial Intelligence * Caching Controllers 02/91: Laptop Technologies * 15 Notebook Computers 03/91: E-mail Software * Network Management * DOS Secrets 04/91: OCR Tools * Soviet Computing * Paperless Offices 05/91: Managing Gigabytes * Nineteen 486/33s * HP 95LX 06/91: 486SX vs. Am386-40 * SX Notebooks * Desktop Multiprocessing 07/91: DOS 5.0 * Wide-Area Networks * Sparc Clones 08/91: Safe Data * 10 Years of Smalltalk * NCR's Pen-based Portable 09/91: 64-bit Computing * 3rd-Generation CD-ROMs * Group Schedulers 10/91: Printer Technologies * Modularity * 9600-BPS Modems 11/91: Interoperability * Momenta * New Macs 12/91: OS/2 2.0 * Multimedia * Presentation Graphics 01/92: 1991 Awards * Databases * Cross-platform Development 02/92: Tomorrow's Processors * PowerPC * Network Servers 03/92: Windows on the Road * Memory & Storage * Spreadsheets 04/92: Natural I/O * Business Graphics * Windows 3.1 05/92: 3-D Computing * Intel's 486DX2 * High-resolution Monitors 06/92: Text Management * Color Printers * Windows Special Report 07/92: Apple's PDA * Portable Libraries * Flatbed Scanners 08/92: Network Analysis Tools * Postscript Printers * Parallel Computing 09/92: Unix * Optical Computing * Notebooks 10/92: Windows NT * Local Bus * Removable Storage 11/92: DSPs * Low-cost PCs * Ultimate Workstations 12/92: 66-Mhz 486DX2s * CPU CHoices * Objects and Users 01/93: 1992 Awards * Machine Translations * Windows Accelerators 02/93: Recordable CD-ROM * Fax Servers * Mobile Communications 03/93: E-mail * Groupware * 600-DPI Printers 04/93: Fighting Fatware * Compression * Visualization 05/93: Pentium * Lab Report: 126 Printers * Security 06/93: Windows * Client/Server Technology * Fast 486s 07/93: Pentium PCs * Data Acquisition * Fast Modems 08/93: PowerPC * 100 Ethernet Cards * Tomorrow's Networks 09/93: Video Computing * Hard Drives * Digital Documents 10/93: First PDAs * Pen and Voice * Notebooks 11/93: Special Report: Windows & OS/2 * Graphics Technology * Printers 12/93: WANs * High-speed 486s * Printer Technology 01/94: Advanced Operating Systems * New Processors * Monitors 02/94: Compression * Graphics Accelerators * Compilers 03/94: The Data Highway * 486-based Portables * Mass Storage 04/94: PowerPCs * Pentium/486 Systems * Object Database Systems 05/94: Componentware * Printers * Wireless Communications 06/94: New 80x86s * Ethernet Adapters * Distributed Computing 07/94: PC-Telephony * 14.4-Kbps Modems * Groupware 08/94: Document Management * High-end Pentiums * Bus Technologies 09/94: Plug and Play * Fast CD-ROM Drives * Internetworking 10/94: Intelligent Networks * Portable Systems * Data Acquisition 11/94: Special Report: Beyond Windows * Printers * New CPUs 12/94: Apple's Gamble * 90-Mhz Pentiums * Networking 01/95: Small-office Computing * Monitors * Color Management 02/95: The New Novell * Graphics Accelerators * Pattern Recognition 03/95: Technology Reshapes Learning * Tape Drives * SOftware Agents 04/95: Intel's P6 * Internet Firewalls * Client/Server Computing 05/95: Mainframes of the Future * Printers * Digital Video 06/95: Mobile Computing * V.34 Modems * Memory Technologies 07/95: The Internet * Ethernet Switching Hubs * 3-D Graphics 08/95: Microsoft * Windows 95 * Internet Servers * Groupware 09/95: 20th Anniversary Special Issue 11/95: Chips * Operating Systems * Network Printers 12/95: Software Reliability * 133 Mhz Pentiums * Games 01/96: Supercomputers * Best of Comdex * Componentware 03/96: Web PC * Web Servers * Multimedia 04/96: Future Computers * Windows 95 * Middleware 05/96: Unix vs. NT * Mobile Computing * WANs 06/96: Electric Money * Ink-jets * Recordable CDs 07/96: Group War * NT * Reader's Choice Awards 08/96: Business on the Net * Tape Libraries * ATM 09/96: No-wait Web * Telephony Boards * Software Quality 10/96: 3-D For Everyone * Notebooks * Network Design 11/96: Java Chips * Dual Pentium Pros * Cairo, Copland, 64-bit Unix 12/96: How Chips Changed the World * Network Printers 01/97: Can Java Replace Windows? * 3-D Workstations * Netware 4.11 04/97: Network Computers * Web Componentware * Java 1.1 05/97: NT 5.0 * SMP Servers * Hostile Applets 06/97: Digital IDs * 56K Modems * Database Programming 07/97: New User Interface * MMX Systems * Memphis 08/97: Energize Your Intranet * New Chips * Extend Your Enterprise 09/97: ActiveX Demystified * 300-Mhz Pentium IIs * Universal Inbox 10/97: Your Next Net * 8 Java Solutions * Pentium II with AGP 11/97: The Orbiting Internet * MMX Notebooks * Secure Windows NT 12/97: Beyond Pentium II * Editor's Choice * Network Computers 01/98: 1998's Top Technologies * 300-Mhz Pentium IIs * Cable Modems 02/98: Disposable PCs * Internet2 * Storage Report 03/98: Reinventing the Web * Netware 5 * 3-D Boards 04/98: Crash-proof Computing * Benchmarks * Color Lasers Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. VCF East? VCF Europe!? YOU BETCHA!! Stay tuned for more information or contact me to find out how you can participate http://www.vintage.org

26 years, 9 months

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collectors vs. enthusiasts

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 11:02 PM Subject: Re: collectors vs. enthusiasts > > >Tony Duell wrote: >> >> > >> > > > It's crazy. I can't believe what they are paying on EBay for less >> > > > than *incomplete* systems. I could see $1400 with drives, running, >> > > > tested, manuals, etc... but a shell?????? >> > > >> > > <rant> >> > > That's because eBay is where "collectors" hang out. Not people like >> > > us, for whom collector is an insufficient/inaccurate term. >> > >> > Whereas I agree that there is a differentiation between the >> > "collector" and the "enthusiast", I must take umbrage to the ,again, >> > generalization of the person who pays "too much" on ebay >> > automatically being "collector assholes, just because he had deep >> > pockets". >> >> My main objection to e-bay (and to most other forms of selling, >> actually), is that I don't know who the item is going to be sold to. > >The same could be said about newcomers to this list, and just about anyone I >don't know. This is something only time will correct. The same goes on ebay. >After a while, you see a lot of the same people bidding on stuff. The other >not so minor detail is that people that pay for this stuff will probably not >send it to that junkyard in the sky. > Collecting computers is in it's infancy (for the general population). I don't think owning an old mini with front panel switches will ever go out of style. Stamps first, then cars, now computers.... I don't see these EBayers leaving anytime soon. Just look at the other items... IE: Monopoly games. A 1933 board game fetched $30-40 last year, this year it's over a $100. As more people get online there will be more of that *one* person that just HAS to have the item on the auction block. and for computers... how many Silicon Valley Execs are retiring this year???

26 years, 9 months

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collectors vs. enthusiasts

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

George, I agree 100%. If you want something that bad you have to pay for it. Pure and simple. -----Original Message----- From: George Currie <g(a)kurico.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 9:13 PM Subject: Re: collectors vs. enthusiasts > > It's crazy. I can't believe what they are paying on EBay for less > > than *incomplete* systems. I could see $1400 with drives, running, > > tested, manuals, etc... but a shell?????? > > <rant> > That's because eBay is where "collectors" hang out. Not people like > us, for whom collector is an insufficient/inaccurate term. Whereas I agree that there is a differentiation between the "collector" and the "enthusiast", I must take umbrage to the ,again, generalization of the person who pays "too much" on ebay automatically being "collector assholes, just because he had deep pockets". Are you implying that one must be of modest means to be an "enthusiast". If you saw a rare whatnot that you had always loved and wanted to tinker with, and had the financial means to acquire it, would you let it go to the scrap because you thought the asking price was too high? Would you let it go to a "collector asshole" because you thought the asking price was too high? If this is the case then you obviously didn't "want" the item that much or didn't have that much passion for it. Perhaps this activity can be further classified as "bargain vintage computer enthusiast". I am both an enthusiast and a collector. I try to get working what I can, but I don't stop acquiring if I know that I won't have time to get around to something. Maybe a computer has special meaning to me, and I just want to have one, and I have the financial resources to do it, does that make me an asshole? Now of course, there are people who would purchase something simply for the "coolness" of having it. With the advent of ebay, those who have deeper pockets are now playing the game. It's a real bummer having to pay lots for stuff that used to be given to you. But hey, that's life. Is the guy who drives a Ferrari an asshole because you drive a Ford (of course he could be, but not just because he drives the Ferrari of course). I fully understand the frustration, but venting it by making generalizations of those who happen to be better financially equipped than you, or are just willing to pay more for something than you, is just immature. I get just as bummed as anyone else when something that I've been wanting goes for more than what I'm willing to pay ($100 for an HP Integral, nope, don't think so, but dang, I've been wanting one for a very long time now), but at least it's not going to a scrapper (in my opinion, our true enemies). And yes, I know that those who don't have a passion for the item is more likely to scrap it if it's investment value/cool factor diminishes, so no come-backs about this are necessary. Another thing is this whole "if someone paid more than what I think something's worth, then they must be one of these slimeball collector folk" attitude. Before I discovered things like live auctions, ebay was the best/only (or so I thought at the time) to acquire things. If it is your only reasonable source, then of course you would be willing to pay more for something than someone who lives next door to Weird Stuff. Anyway, sorry for the long rant, but this whole "attitude" thing just irks me and I've been averaging like 4 hrs of sleep for the last couple of weeks (new baby + company being bought out) so I guess I'm a bit touchy (and not too coherent). So, whine about how hard it is to get stuff on cheap, fine, I do that all the time (just ask my wife). Call the guy who purchased an Altair for $2K an asshole/loser collector/not worthy, well, anyway, you now know how I feel. George

26 years, 9 months

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Support your local Goodwill

by reyes＠orion.ae.utexas.edu

I just came across this site. Here in Austin the Goodwill has vintage stuff for sale and stuff on ebay. http://www.eden.com/~arena/compworks/vintage.htm Not all are good deals but some are right like the Woz GS for $19.95. Ruben

26 years, 9 months

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What's the best RS-232 terminal?

by dogas＠leading.net

Anybody have a favorite? Why? - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

26 years, 9 months

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Collecting IBM Manuals

by musicman38＠mindspring.com

Glad to hear that others find value in these historical manuals.. > I have collected a few also. The XT and AT manuals have >etched writing on the outside. PC-DOS 3.10 (don't have >3.00) and later in the 3.xx series have a paper cover. >And I have PC-DOS 4.00 in the hard cover manual and the >el-cheapo paper box. So I am assuming that this is where >the hard cover manuals stopped. I think you are right, I have IBM DOS 5.0 but its manual is a Paperback type.. >I have a real nice glass faced wooden book shelf for their display. >Partly for outward viewing and partly to keep the dust out. My collection is centered in the family room and is always the subject of conversation when I have guests over.. All my other reference books and manuals are filed in the garage so I can get to them if I need one in a hurry.. And I have many Boxes full of them.. Phil..

26 years, 9 months

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collectors vs. enthusiasts

by allisonp＠world.std.com

WHat people pay for something important is their business and generally good as anything with cash value is less likely to fill dumpsters (trashbins). Yes, for the guy looking for the $10 item it may be more expensive but then again it may be for sale instead of long gone. To me a 8e case/fp for more than a few hundred is out of my "range", but if it were exceptional in condition of one of the oddball customer special color schemes there may be something to warrent it. They were not that cheap when new! It all according to what you want/need. Also consider the buyer may have a complete 8E and no box. There are people out there still using them for CNC and other uses where $1000 is cheap for spares when compared to trying to upgrade to a PC! <I am not sure that it is off-topic. After all, this list is supposed to <be about collecting classic computers. And as well as discussions on <repairing them, using them, etc, discussions on why we bother in the <first place should be OK here. there in lies the point. Most of are enthusiasts AND collectors. The distinction is the true collector who is speculating on the potential value and has little to no interest in how it works if it does. Not saying thats wrong but it's a more distinct line of demarcation. Me I accumulate. ;) Ebay, thats someone elses problem, I don't look or buy there. It's not on my horizon. I rather look elsewhere for more interesting and possibly complete systems that say ran a machine or plant. Allison

26 years, 9 months

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Old 8086 Amstrad

by musicman38＠mindspring.com

Finally found the Amstrad PPC640, here it is.. http://www.sinasohn.com/cgi-bin/clascomp/bldhtm.pl?computer=ppc640 Phil..

26 years, 9 months

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Amstrad PPC640

by musicman38＠mindspring.com

I have not found it on any of the internet museums. I wonder how common this machine was, and if it was marketed in the United States.. >A PPC640 ? At least that's what it was called in the UK. Yes this was a typo on my part, it is a PPC640.. >> I just purchased one at the local Thrift store yesterday for $4.04 >> and when I got to the checkout line the lady told me it was half price >> day so for only $2.02 I got this really cool Portable XT dual >> 720KB floppies, and a nice LCD screen.. > >It's a reasonable machine. I've been known to use mine as a terminal, or >to run a drive exerciser program (with the parallel port connected to >some signals of the drive-under-test), etc. I am very impressed with its design, for a machine made in 1987.. The keyboard is very nice Full size with numeric keypad and also 12 function keys, not very common in an XT class machine.. Very unsual how the keyboard folds up on it.. >I have the manuals for it (somewhere), including the software tech manual >and the service manual. It's pretty close to one of the Amstrad desktop >XT clones -- it's even got the same ASICs in it IIRC. I looked on the internet for some information on it, but there is nothing on it, with the exception of the dip switch for the video.. >> Very impressive machine for 1987.. >> And it appears to run on standard D batteries for portable use.. > >I thought it was C cells, but I might be wrong. Do you have the 2 plastic >tubes that hold the cells together? I've never tried running it on >batteries, since it takes 10 cells (!) and they don't last long. Yes you are right it uses 10 C cells for portable power, doubt if I will ever use it in portable mode, the external power supply is just fine.. >On the back are 2 power input connectors. The coaxial one is for a >12V-ish input, centre +ve, which is what I normally use (from my bench PSU). >The 14 pin DIN is a power input (all sorts of _regulated_ voltages) from >an Amstrad PC monitor. It's probably best to ignore this. >Oh yes, the power switch on the top is really a changeover from batteries >to external PSU. It seems a little odd at first. I believe this is why is was marked "AS-IS" and priced at $2.02 at the thrift store. They plugged it in and looked for a power switch and could not find one, and decided it was bad as it did not power up.. Not usually interested in any machine that is DOS based, but this one has my interest, atleast for the moment.. Amazing how much fun two bucks can bring... Phil..

26 years, 9 months

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HP3000

by AGoodwinDa＠aol.com

What exactly is this? It's a dinosaur? I have an interview in a few days and this is the system they're running. Any help with what questions they might ask me about it? ther are also running IBM 4690 maybe for point-of-sale. Any help with questions and answers for this interview would be a blessing.

26 years, 9 months

2
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collectors vs. enthusiasts

by kstumpf＠unusual.on.ca

Great discussion, perhaps off-topic, but important. You, who are contributing, to this thread have endorsed an important part of my book since I deal with these and other, similar issues in The Guide to Collecting... Yours in good faith. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 .

26 years, 9 months

2
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Tape drive help and/or part needed (Attention DEC-heads!)

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I think our KS10 has separate ports for the massbuss marked disk and >tape, but I'd have to double check to be sure I'm not thinking of >something else. Right... yours has the two ports... mine is the one which only has the Disk Massbus port. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 9 months

1
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Stuff thats available

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

I just saw a IBM data display terminal, model 4978 if I recall correctly (not 100% sure about that 9 anymore). Is this something I should grab? The keyboard is, well, I would describe it as 'similar' to a original Sun 1 keyboard, but no-one else knows what that looks like. the keyboard is in a thick iron case, somewhat triangular, if that description jogs anyones mind. On another note, does anyone want to trade something for a Hayes Smartmodem external, with an original box? If I didnt have an original box, and I wasnt already posting to the list, I wouldnt bother mentioning this, but I know some people go crazy for original boxes. Frankly I think thats crazy, but a person who is restoring a PDP8/e is probably the last person to throw stones... And, last but surely not least... I found a company that has a PDP8/f for sale. They want $600 for it. -Lawrence LeMay

26 years, 9 months

2
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Running a 220v computer in a 110v environment

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Find out what the danger areas are. There's little hazard in working on a >CPU board, for example (but then we all know that :-)). Actually, there *is* a substantial hazard around CPU boards, especially on classic machines where the power supply is capable of putting out 5V at a 60 or 100 or (in a recent machine that I've been tinkering with) 350 Amps. If something metal shorts out the power supply, and that something metal is near your fingers, you can get a very nasty burn, and also send sparks and bits of molten metal into your eyes and face. (Note that I've completely passed over the rather substantial harm often done to the supply components and PC board etches by a dead short. If you're lucky, you'll simply melt the PC board traces rather than burn yourself or send sparks flying.) The solution, of course, is simple: don't wear anything conductive while poking around high-current supplies. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 9 months

2
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CDC 9766 aka RM05

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

Hello there, does someone have any documentation on the CDC 9766 SMD drive, aka DEC RM05 (with different interface, as it appears) ? Schematics, handbooks, service manuals, etc., would be greatly appreciated; all eventual costs covered, of course. Thanks and regards John G. Zabolitzky

26 years, 9 months

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Floppy disks again

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Allison wrote: <> There are two media for 96tpi, one for DD and lower and is the SAME <> magnetic material as 48tpi. THere is also the 1.2mb media and this is <> VERY DIFFERENT and incompatable with any other drive or density. < <Not quite. The "1.2mb" media is compatible with Apple Twiggy diskette <drives, though the jacket cutouts are different. I consider Apple disks and disk systems to be generally unique to themselves. I was trying to stay within softsector standard dives and media and not looking at the specifically unique like the Apple or Commodore or just about every other hard sector formatter (though the drives may be run of the mill for these). Since the jacket is different, the media is again only somewhat compatable. there were plenty of "odd" disk drives and media out there like the Amstrand 3" and the really old sony 3.5". Allison

26 years, 9 months

5
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Running a 220v computer in a 110v environment

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

Peter Pachla quoting [I forget whom] > > A fuse will never protect _you_ nor the device. It is only ment > >to protect the house/the installation.... > > This I have to take issue with (though I'm probably quibbling over > semantics?). > > The purpose of the fuse in the PLUG is to protect the power cable between the > plug and the device from carrying an unsafe current in the event of a problem > with that CABLE. > > The device itself should contain a second fuse which is there to protect the > PSU in the event of a failure or overload. > > At least that's what we were taught when I did an electronics course a few > years back. Right. I think there are some misconceptions around here that need clearing up. I will put in a disclaimer that I am not an electronic engineer but an electrical engineer - my field ends roughly where the power cord enters the computer! - but many of the principles carry across between the fields. Misconception 1: A fuse or breaker in the live (hot) wire means that a person touching live metalwork will not get a fatal shock. THIS IS TOTALLY FALSE - which is I think what our previous contributor was getting at. A fuse or breaker is intended to interrupt the circuit when there is an excessive current flowing. Since it can take as little as a milliamp to kill someone, and very few people survive more than 30mA, a fuse is unlikely to help. The fuse - as Tony and Peter have both pointed out - performs what might be called damage limitation on the device. One fault causes excessive current; the fuse prevents the excessive current causing further faults, either upstream or dounstream. Misconception 2: Earthed (grounded) metalwork is safe. It is usually safe, PROVIDED fuses and things are in place, AND THE EQUIPMENT HAS BEEN PROPERLY DESIGNED. Anyone who has designed electronics will have encountered earth path resistance. If there is a large current flowing in the earth path, the potential of nominally grounded points can rise. (In digital circuits this is usually a transient phenomenon, where a switching surge puts glitches on signals that should be constant at ground potential. This has the disadvantage that inductance is also significant...) When designing electrical equipment, it is important to keep the resistance of the earth path low enough that in the event of a short circuit, the potential of (say) the chassis will not rise too high. So how high is too high? The answer depends on the length of time for which the potential will be present - the longer it is there, the more likely it is to kill the person writhing on the floor unable to release their finger muscles... The length of time the high potential is present depends - of course - on the fuse or breaker. Fortunately there is negative feedback - the lower the current, the longer the fuse takes to blow; but the lower will be the potential rise, so the lower will be the current flowing in the person touching it. In this sense the fuse protects you - in the event of a short circuit, it cuts off the current before a high voltage has been present on the "earthed" chassis long enough to kill you. But remember, THE CURRENT FLOWING IN _YOU_ IS DEPENDENT ONLY ON VOLTAGE (and on how you make contact - but not on the circuit to which you're connected) - your resistance is so high (kilohms) that your effect on short circuit currents or fuses is NEGLIGIBLE. (OK, perhaps someone will come up with an exception - but it is best to assume that this always applies. I know of no exceptions on domestic mains...) If you are running electrical equipment and a fuse blows, YOU MUST DISCONNECT IT before you go poking around inside. NEVER rely on the open-circuited fuse to protect you (which may also be what our previous contributor was getting at). If you are running British equipment from a US 120-0-120 supply, and there is a short to ground near the hot end, the fuse will blow in the normal way. This will interrupt most of the current, but will leave the other side of the supply connected through most of the device to ground. An earth leakage trip (ELCB, RCD, GFCI) [1] is required to pick up the remainder of the fault current and disconnect altogether. If there is a short to ground near the neutral end, only the ELCB (and possibly the main breaker or fuse at the consumer unit) will see it. This is the disadvantage of running British (or European) equipment on US 220V mains. The fact that parts of the innards will be live (hot) when a single pole switch is opened or a fuse blows is IRRELEVANT, because YOU SHOULD BE UNPLUGGING BEFORE YOU GO POKING AROUND INSIDE ANYWAY. If you have to run stuff with the cover off, be aware of the dangers, and take precautions to minimise the risk. But this too goes for all equipment anyway. I hope this clears up some misconceptions. Philip. [1] Earth leakage trips: ELCB = Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker (UK) GFCI = Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (US) These are generally Residual Current Devices (RCD) - detecting the difference between hot and neutral currents. Some older trip switches were not RCDs, but measured ground potential rise instead, but these are not recommended for new designs - or for old ones for that matter! They should still work for any fault that makes a chassis potentially (pun intended) dangerous to touch. This E-mail message is private and confidential and should only be read by those to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, reproduction, modification or publication of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please delete the message from your computer and destroy any copies. This message is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. This company therefore disclaims all responsibility and accepts no liability of any kind which may arise from any person acting, or refraining from acting, upon the contents of the message without having had subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this communication in error, or if any problems occur in transmission please notify us immediately by telephone on +44 (0)2476 425474

26 years, 9 months

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Floppy disks again

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 12, 18:55, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > On Tue, 12 Oct 1999 allisonp(a)world.std.com wrote: > > > There are two media for 96tpi, one for DD and lower and is the SAME > > magnetic material as 48tpi. THere is also the 1.2mb media and this is > > VERY DIFFERENT and incompatable with any other drive or density. > > > > So if we ignore 1.2mb media and the oddbal spindle speeds and data rates > > that go with it we come down to one media (softs sector) and 6 different > > drives over the years. They are: > > > > 48tpi single sided (sa400) > > 48tpi double sided (sa450) > > 96tpi single sided (teac Fd55E or DEC RX50) > > 96tpi double sided (teac FD55F) > > 100tpi single and double sided models (micropolis I think) > > > > Ok, I wasn't aware of any 96tpi drives except the HD ones... Were > they ever used in the PC marketplace, or was it mostly a DEC thing? > After re-reading my uVAX manual about the RX50, I agree it is a > 96tpi single sided drive, though the manual says: "Use only formatted > RX50 diskettes, available from DIGITAL or its licensed distributors" They were used practically everywhere *except* in IBM/Intel/Microsoft PCs. They're certainly not unique to DEC. IBM/Microsoft seemed to want to standardise (not unreasonable!) and picked a particular format/size (with minor variations). The reason the manual says "Use only formatted RX50 diskettes" is that formatting the 10 sectors/track on an RX50 is rather critical, and most DEC machines to which those drives were connected, weren't supplied with formatting software. Rainbows were, though (I think), and I regularly format RX50s on other machines. > So there are four drives using the same media: > SSDD 180K,48tpi,40tracks/side > DSDD 360K,48tpi,40tracks/side > RX50 360K,96tpi,80tracks/side > ???? 720K,96tpi,80tracks/side - What was (is) this called? DSQD? The number of tracks has nothing whatsoever to do with the density! RX50 is SSDD, it just happens to have 10 sectors of 512 bytes per track, and 80 tracks. Your "??? 720K" is DSDD. Yes, some people did call this QD, but it isn't a different density at all -- the misnomer comes from people who don't understand what the words mean. Your numbers for 180K, 360K, etc, assume a particular number and size of sectors, which need not be the case (ie you can use the same drive and media to make a disk of different capacity). Also, there's nothing about (most) drives that makes them inherently single density or double density; that is just a question of how you interleave clock and data pulses, and how fast you send them down the Write Data line to the drive. > And the HD drive: > DSHD 1.2M,96tpi,80tracks/side - can read older media, but writing > is unreliable (head isn't wide > enough to erase the whole old track) Not so, the head is exactly the right width and layout for any 96 tpi DD (or SD, come to that) media. You just have to make sure it's set to the correct write current. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 9 months

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Yet another "free stuff" bonanza

by af-list＠lafleur.wfi-inc.com

Well, in the spirit of all the "free stuff" sharing going around, I dug out a few more things to share... 1) Apple Mac+ keyboard, no cable, dirty 2) An HP 9123 drive for the TouchScreen II (150), beaten up, no PS 3) IBM Thinkpad 560 w/cracked LCD and missing a mouse button 4) Kaypro 4 "Parts" (2 kbds, whatever you want me to remove) from 2 already-somewhat-stripped machines Preference is always given to anyone who can pick up (SoCal), sorry. If someone was really interested in creating a big love/share fest, I'm looking for some 4meg memory modules for my mac IIfx... Cheers, Aaron

26 years, 9 months

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HP 9123 disk drive was Re: Yet another "free stuff" bonanza

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 09:27 AM 10/13/99 -0700, Aaron wrote: >Well, in the spirit of all the "free stuff" sharing going around, I dug >out a few more things to share... > >1) Apple Mac+ keyboard, no cable, dirty >2) An HP 9123 drive for the TouchScreen II (150), beaten up, no PS The 9123 doesn't have a power supply. It gets it's power from the TouchScreen II through the five pin DIN connector. Except for the power supply, the 9123 is the same as the 9122 (double sided 3.5" Sony floppy drives). You can connect it to a +5 and 12 VDC power supply and use it like a 9122. Joe

26 years, 9 months

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paper tape repair

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

Greetings! I have a paper tape that got messed up when I was trying to rewind it in a rather non-conventional way <grin>. I have several copies of the tape so it's no big deal, but I'd like to fix the messed up one. I seem to remember years ago seeing a paper tape repair kit that had clear tape with all holes punched in it. This was to be taped over the problem area. Is this type of thing still available anywhere, or are there other methods of repair people have found here? Thanks in advance! Jay West

26 years, 9 months

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Old 8086 Amstrad

by musicman38＠mindspring.com

WOW! Great Timing on the infor for the Amstrad Website.. I can't believe you guys are on the subject of Amstrad PC6400.. I just purchased one at the local Thrift store yesterday for $4.04 and when I got to the checkout line the lady told me it was half price day so for only $2.02 I got this really cool Portable XT dual 720KB floppies, and a nice LCD screen.. Very impressive machine for 1987.. And it appears to run on standard D batteries for portable use.. Looking forward to learning all about it.. Phil... -----Original Message----- From: Olminkhof <jolminkh(a)nsw.bigpond.net.au> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 04:42 AM Subject: Re: Old 8086 Amstrad >I don't know, but here's a link to an Amstrad site: > >http://web.ukonline.co.uk/cliff.lawson/product.htm > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Rodrigo Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Tuesday, 12 October 1999 0:19 >Subject: Old 8086 Amstrad > > >> >> Hi. Anyone knows how to enter the BIOS setup in such a PC? >>Does it even have a BIOS setup utility? >> >> Thanks, >> > >

26 years, 9 months

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collectors vs. enthusiasts

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 12:29 PM Subject: collectors vs. enthusiasts >> It's crazy. I can't believe what they are paying on EBay for less than >> *incomplete* systems. I could see $1400 with drives, running, tested, >> manuals, etc... but a shell?????? > ><rant> >That's because eBay is where "collectors" hang out. Not people like us, >for whom collector is an insufficient/inaccurate term. Well, if you are looking for a good home for one of stright 8s and for a decent $ then please e-mail me! I won't hang the core memory on the wall and I will get it running! I agree with you on the "collector" term. That PDP 8 was bought for $1300 because it was a nice looking desktop unit. Rack mount minis don't even get bids on EBay! I use EBay to try and buy parts (never heard of any of lists/groups like this one a month ago.). I lost the H214 core memory module I needed from EBay from a sniper bidder wanting to frame it (I think). john > >It's like the difference between coin or stamp collectors and classic >car enthusiasts. A coin or stamp collector gets the coin or stamp he's >been drooling over, puts it in a book or in a display on his wall, >checks it off a list, and he's done. Since coins and stamps don't "do" >anything, that's fine. > >But a classic car enthusiast maintains classic cars in working order (or >at least attempts to do so), and drives them now and then. They're not >just a checklist item. > >A seemingly large percentage of the computer "collectors" on eBay are >just people who see collecting computers exactly like collecting coins. >They don't give a shit whether the thing works, as long as it looks cool >and will impress their friends. Hell, if they got a PDP-8 that did >work, they wouldn't know what to do with it aside from destroying the >core planes to make wall hangings. > >That's why I personally will try never to sell any truly rare items on >eBay. I'd rather make sure that they go to a good home, rather than be >obligated to sell to one of these collector" assholes, just because he >had deep pockets. ></rant> > >Eric >

26 years, 9 months

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Where and Where to get an IBM 1130

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

At , Randy M.Kaplan wrote: >1. I have noticed in reading the list that individuals will come upon >various machines in various places that are being retired. I also recently >purchased a Sun IPC from ebay. When I went to pick it up, the fellow had a >yard full of stuff he had apparently scarfed up from various companies. How >does one find out about these sources? Who do you contact? Well a couple of things, if you start collecting old computers many sources will find _you_. Unfortunately many of those sources will want you to take 75 80386SX computers off their hands not IBM 1130s. Look up scrap metal recycling in your yellow pages. These guys are sort of the "sharks" of computer collecting, they devour things indiscriminately but you can be a "trigger fish" and teach them the value of some machines. A good relationship with a top tier scrapper is a really good thing to have. The scrappers watch the new paper for liquidation bids. Places that are scrapping out entire buildings and such. Older and larger computers are sometimes found in these liquidations because the buildings are abandoned and the "big iron" in the machine room is just left there. (I "found" 1/2 of a 370 that way once in a building that was for lease.) >2. I was wondering if anyone had any notion of where I might look for an IBM >1130 or is this a totally ridiculous pursuit. When I started out, this was >the first machine I wrote Fortran programs for. The 1130 is not an easy machine to find. You will have several sources (ranked from most likely to least likely): 1) Another collector who can't afford the space any more and wants to keep the machine in the hands of a caretaker. 2) Some place that had to keep software for it running and kept one around as a "gold standard." 3) A scrapper who hasn't had the heart to crush it yet. 4) IBM (who might have one in a warehouse somewhere for some reason) Its certainly a worthwhile pursuit. --Chuck

26 years, 9 months

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Tape drive help and/or part needed (Attention DEC-heads!)

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I either need to find someone who knows what they're doing with a TU77, or someone who has and can get rid of a TM03 formatter for a TU77 with the special 18-bit card. Chris Zach (cz(a)alembic.crystel.com) has the MIT-AI KS10, and wants to run ITS on it, but his tape drive (A TU77) is screwed up. It generates a FORMATTER ERROR in the Status register whenever it's on. He has booted from drives on the same Massbus so that's OK. Having a real '10 with ITS on the 'net again would be a really good thing. Does anyone think they can help this guy? -------

26 years, 9 months

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IBM PC era software

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

I found some 5.25" floppy disks, apparently from the era of the IBM PC. This stuff could be yours... IBM Diagnostics (version 2.05; IBM Personal Computers) 1983 Lotus 1.2.3 version 2.10 1986 PSpice - electrical Circuit Simulator. Classroom version. Demo versions of pro/bis and pro/sci version 1.0 Borland turbo pascal 8087. version 2.0 1983 Borland Turbo Graphix Toolbox. version 1.05A 1984 Ability Demo Disk 1 & 2 T3 (thats T cubed) Scientific Word Processing System. Beta Version 2.11 Absolutely no documentation for any of this stuff. -Lawrence LeMay lemay(a)cs.umn.edu

26 years, 9 months

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MicroVAX 2000 questions.

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

>F_..E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5...4_..3_..2_..1?.. > > ? E 0040 0000.0005 > ? C 0080 0000.4001 > ? 6 00A0 0000.4001 >?? 1 00C0 0011.700E If you put a terminator on the network spigot, the "?? 1" should go away. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

26 years, 9 months

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Floppy disks again

by jpero＠pop.cgocable.net

> From: jpero(a)pop.cgocable.net > To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:46:24 +0000 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Subject: Re: Floppy disks again > Priority: normal > In-reply-to: <Pine.SGI.3.95.991012100527.27475A-100000(a)world.std.com> > References: <199910120735.DAA20413(a)swordfin.cs.unc.edu> > X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) > > > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:33:08 -0400 (EDT) > > Reply-to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > > From: allisonp(a)world.std.com > > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > > Subject: Re: Floppy disks again > > X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > > > Yes, specifically head width. The media also limits things some > > as very narrow head will tend to dig into the media and the width of the > > track also defines signal level. Zip disks are high track density > > floppies using special cobalt media for high bit density and also high > > track density. They aslo have servo info on the media to aid in finding > > the rather narrow tracks. > > The tolerences is very loose especially in zip harderned steel > wire-rails resting in vee notches basically clamped between black > chassis and clear piece by 4 T6 (wood) screws, the magnet poles > simply held together by magnetic power. Whole magnet thingy is > simply loose in it's holder and only kept in place by pieces of tapes > to prevent rattling. I rescused one from certain death after > cleaning the heads with piece of tissue paper clamped between heads > dampened with model glue fluid to clean both. Alignment is basically > built in (mostly in that black chassis and heads). Remaining > alignment errors is taken up by servo tracking alone. > > Curious: What is ideal way for heads design? Make it larger to keep > it from digging into soft floppy cookies in those zip drives? Those > heads looks exactly like it came out of early 3.5" harddrives. > And ironically spun at 3600rpm. > > > > > This is why 135 tpi has been the limit for absolute mechanical positioners > > like floppies. At some point the track is so narrow you have to be able > > to hunt for it and stepper based positioners are inexpensive but lack > > resolution (and speed) for that task. The next generation will be some > > form of voicecoil and the media will have embedded servo (Zip, LS120, > > Jaz and friends). At some point you bridge the differences between floppy > > and hard disk. > > Small bone: Jaz is harddrive technology w/ platter(s) in a cartidge > no different from Syquests and like. > > > Allison > > Wizard >

26 years, 9 months

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Running a 220v computer in a 110v environment

by rmeenaks＠olf.com

Hi, Probably some of you have already done this. I have an equipment, a parsytec xplorer, that runs a 220v. I got it from across the pond. Since I am in the states and the power output is 110v, is there any way for me to run this without getting a transformer to pump it up to 220v??? Unfortunately, the parsytec doesnt convert automatically like PC and laptops of today. In my apartment, there is a funny looking plug next to out AC. I remember somewhat vaugely that it is actually 220v. Is this true??? How did you guys solve this problem???? I want to get a good solid response before I blow up the machine :-) Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | Senior Software Engineer | OpenLink Financial Inc | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks(a)olf.com ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/

26 years, 9 months

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Tape drive help and/or part needed (Attention DEC-heads!)

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I either need to find someone who knows what they're doing with a TU77, >or someone who has and can get rid of a TM03 formatter for a TU77 with >the special 18-bit card. Earlier this year, a team of people rescued a couple (three) KS10 systems along with RP06s and TU77s... the TU77s were confirmed to have the mentioned board... >Chris Zach (cz(a)alembic.crystel.com) has the MIT-AI KS10, and wants to run >ITS on it, but his tape drive (A TU77) is screwed up. It generates a >FORMATTER ERROR in the Status register whenever it's on. >He has booted from drives on the same Massbus so that's OK. Before I offer the board we have (on loan only, of course), I would have to talk with the others at the Rhode Island Computer Museum, but I would also have to confirm with you (and him) that the board that was in his tape drives did not go bad due to something else. I'd hate to see a known good board used in place of a bad one, only to have it go bad because the underlying problem has not been corrected. So... why is his board bad? Age? Or did something else go bad and take it for a ride? If the latter, has the problem been fixed (for sure)? Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 9 months

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Needed / Available

by edick＠idcomm.com

I'm inclined to agree with you about this matter, except that there's a company in SD or MT or somewhere thereabouts which has apparent'y persuaded him that if he sells one of their boards with his monitors it's worth many hundreds of dollars. That's no longer the case, since you can buy a VERY decent 20" monitor at the local computer house for <$400. . .not MUCH less, but less, just the same. Those guys in the northern prairie were once offering a board for about $400 and that might have been a bargain if you HAD to have the large format and the market would then bear a price of $1100 for a 16" NEC Multisync 4D or $2200 for a 19" Multisync 5D. Those days are behind us, though, and I don't miss 'em. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 12:12 PM Subject: Re: Needed / Available >>Well . . . what I meant was the monitors. That's what he's asking $75 for >>and without the Appollo stations they're of little use, being fixed >>frequency types. If he asked $25 for them they'd still be difficult to >>move. > >Depends on the locale. Here in SoCal we have a LOT of these workstation >monitors turning up and a few places have even brought in a tech to modify >a batch for use on a PC and sold them at a higher price. I don't see the >standard units as a bargain even at $25, unless you NEED one. They are OLD, >BIG, HEAVY, and generally support only a single (low in modern terms) >resolution. > >At $75 IMHO he is looking for suckers, people that don't know what the >monitor is, or what is required for its use, and are lured into purchase by >what they think is a low price for a BIG color monitor. So maybe he sells >one or two at that price, and each of those customers then tell ten friends >about getting ripped off at so and so's place. Great business plan. > >

26 years, 9 months

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CDC 924 console in 'The Terminator'

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Grigoni <msg(a)computerpro.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Grigoni wrote: > > >A reasonbly good scan of the showcase photograph from a marketing brochure > > >for the CDC 924 can be found at: http://www.mtr.webconcept.de/image/ > > >computer/cdc/924.jpg > > > > Huh? You sure about that URL? I get a 404... > > I swear that last night the URL was good; today I get the same results. Your mail agent split the URL, so when people with HTML aware agents attempted to build a link, it doesn't include "computer/cdc/924.jpg". It happened to me, too. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 9 months

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Running a 220v computer in a 110v environment

by danburrows＠mindspring.com

Be VERY carefull as some of the British equipment I deal with all the time only put a breaker in the Hot leg. They expect the neutral to be at / near ground. If this is wired to US 240 then it will only protect 1 hot lead. The other will be unprotected and ready to bite you. Not to mention the fact you are then depending on the house breaker to protect your equipment. Dan >Could be - I'm not the expert in US electrics (althrough I just did >some studies to buy the right stuff for my 110V paneel) - but 220/240V >sounds good when it comes to a 3~ plug. If you buy an aprobiate plug, >and whire two 'hots', your system should work well. If the outlet has >a distinct Protective Ground, you should also wire PG to allow your >GFCI to check for deffective loops. This is save with all newer European >stuff, since an in device PE/N connection is no longer valid - also all >devices ave to be constructed in a way that there is no need to >distinguish between Neutral and 'Hot' (Some exceptions apply to British >EQ, but even their manufacturers switched soon, since they don't want to >have two different PSUs for the same unit :).

26 years, 9 months

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ZX81 Question also...

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

In a message dated 10/11/1999 2:18:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jester909(a)Phreaker.net writes: > How do I load a program into a ZX81? I get as far as LOAD and then cant seem > to figure out the rest. Any Ideas? Try LOAD "" which should cause the zx81 to load the first program it encounters on the tape. If the name of the saved program is known, use LOAD "PROGRAM NAME" Incidentally, it's _not_ a good idea to keep both of the audio cables plugged in at the same time. This cause LOADing problems with many cassette recorders. Glen Goodwin 0/0

26 years, 9 months

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Sources for DEC Software

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Does anyone know of any sources for old DEC software. Specifically, RT11 >for the PDP-11 series? RT-11 is licensed software. In order to run a copy of it, you need a license. The company which owns and distributes RT-11 now is Mentec, Ltd. (mentec.com). The latest version of RT-11 is V5.7. It is possible to obtain earlier versions (earler than V5.3), but by license they may only be run using a specific pdp-11 emulator, and not on real hardware (I wish it was otherwise, but these are the terms of the license). Even old versions require a license... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 9 months

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Floppy disks again

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> I consider Apple disks and disk systems to be generally unique to <> themselves. < <Actually the Twiggy was their only floppy drive that required any <special diskettes. But they have the modifed sa400s with a GCR controller. About the only that wasn't unique about that was the media. Generally and with limited exceptions the only thing that reads an Apple disk is another Apple (or it's clone). Ok maybe a commie. Allison

26 years, 9 months

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Tape drive help and/or part needed (Attention DEC-heads!)

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Was this TM03 originally installed on the KS or has it come from >somewhere else. I'm wondering if it's got all the correct varients >for the TU77 and 18 bit bit fidler. > >Anyone have a TM03 print set that I can look at... When we got the -10s, we got print sets... and I know that there are some TM03/TU77 printsets in there... I'll have to look. I also have a bunch of manuals at work (that I rescued recently) relating to TU77. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 9 months

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Off Topic

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Does anyone have or know where I can get a setup disk for the HP omnibook 600c ? No luck on HP's web site. Thanks and sorry for the noise.

26 years, 9 months

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Floppy disks again

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> 48tpi single sided (sa400) <> 48tpi double sided (sa450) <> 96tpi single sided (teac Fd55E or DEC RX50) <> 96tpi double sided (teac FD55F) <> 100tpi single and double sided models (micropolis I think) <> < <Ok, I wasn't aware of any 96tpi drives except the HD ones... Were <they ever used in the PC marketplace, or was it mostly a DEC thing? <After re-reading my uVAX manual about the RX50, I agree it is a In the PC market place... what that? ;) Ok, No. PCs used 48tpi and the later 96tpi/all mode (fd55gfv or similar). Most of the 96tpi drives known as QD were in the CPM/CCdos/Zdos market and were DD rate but double storage due to twice the tracks of the 48 tpi drives (hence quad density). The same format that gave 360k on a 48tpi two sided drive allowed 720k on a QD drive by virtue of more tracks. <96tpi single sided drive, though the manual says: "Use only formatted <RX50 diskettes, available from DIGITAL or its licensed distributors" RX50 is not a media problem it's a formatting problem as it's 10 512byte sectors per track and the 1793 (and kin) really are the correct parts to exactly duplicate that format. Most PCs can with the right drive format RX50 media (teac FD55E or 55F with correct jumpers in place). RX50 media is standard two sided DD media. I use it for RX180 and also RX180 for RX50 properly erased and formatted and both work in PCs as 360k media (erased and formatted). <RX50 360K,96tpi,80tracks/side <???? 720K,96tpi,80tracks/side - What was (is) this called? DSQD? Yep! It was used in many machines but most were CPM based or PCdos not on standard PC hardware( or CCdos on S100). <DSHD 1.2M,96tpi,80tracks/side - can read older media, but writing < is unreliable (head isn't wide < enough to erase the whole old track) Correct. <If Bill indeed has DSDD media, bulk erasing the media before applying <it to the 96tpi (non-HD) drive should work fine. This erases the old <data from between the new (half as wide) tracks, so it doesn't <interfere with reading. Correct. In the 5.25" drive market from 1977 to current the number and variation of drives and controllers and formats used would make one batty. there were for the most part only a few differnt media though. Most of the media with the exception of 1.2mb (or it's derivitives) was all the same oxide and any variation was hard sector, odd envelopes or only one side certified good (though both were usually good.). FYI: I have NON-PC 5.25 media for: old 35track sa400s (verbatum and shugart) hard and soft sector (inclued the originals for my NS* system that have short window and the ICOM FDOS soft sector media with short window) Visual 1050 96tpi 1 and two sided variations. <FD55F and 55G> RX180 <sa400l and tandon TM100-1> RX50 (vms, POS, RT11, Rainbow, RSX, Netbsd, XXDP, OS8, WPS filesystems) <rx50> RX33 (dec 1.2m for Vaxmate and Later vaxen) <FD55GFV> Ti99/4 (40tr SSSD) <sa440L> H89 softsector <tm100-1> Kaypro (SSDD, DSDD, DSQD advent turborom format) <mix of drives> Ampro 48tpi and 96tpi CPM <I used FD55B 48tpi early on> And a box of misc mongrul formats. Those are the ones in active use here. I've endevored to reduce the number of formats to those. PCs I unilaterally have discontinued active 5.25 media use as it's inconsistant at best and 3.5" is supported in most I use (I have one system that can do 360, 1.2 or ?? if need be). Allison

26 years, 9 months

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RX02 on PDP8/e

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

What hardware is needed in order to connect a RX02 to a PDP8/e? Is it just the M8357 RX8E interface card, or is something else (data break?) needed? Can I boot an operating system from a PDP8/e with only a serial terminal and a RX02? While i'm at it, does anyone have a spare M8357? -Lawrence LeMay lemay(a)cs.umn.edu

26 years, 9 months

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MicroVAX 2000 questions.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< <F_..E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5...4_..3_..2_..1?.. < < ? E 0040 0000.0005 < ? C 0080 0000.4001 < ? 6 00A0 0000.4001 <?? 1 00C0 0011.700E < <>>> No disk? or not bootable. Also, the 3100 is a superset of the Vs2000 so any info on that also applies generally. Check here: http://www.netbsd.org/Library/Hardware/Machines/DEC/vax/index.html <Trying to run a test from the >>> prompt doesn't work either. T 50 doesnt work? Allison PS: copy of an old message from tim on tests. From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph01.triumf.ca> Message-Id: <9805241840.AA08441(a)alph01.triumf.ca> Subject: Re: VS2000 tests and other oddities? > I was poking around for various test numbers and letters on a VS2000 when > I came across the most interesting test 90. It obviously has to do with > stats on the ethernet device, but is there anything else it does? > > I knew about test 70 being an MFM disk formatter, but what's test 71? > > test 70 gives "KA410-A RDRXfmt" > test 71 gives "KA410-A RDver" > > Then tests 51, 52, and 53 seem to do more than your average bogus test > which results in "?17 ILL CMD" but at the same time it's not obvious to me > what it actually is that they do (if anything). What I reproduce below is from an old DEC SPD on the built-in diagnostics; I hope it helps. Somewhere here I have the DEC part number for the "Hardware key" used to enable the less-well-known packages. PRODUCT NAME: MicroVAX 2000/VAXstation 2000 Diagnostic Package TEST 0 - Invokes the customer runnable system excerciser. This test executes a serial string test of all devices in the system. After serial device testing has completed, a concurrent device test is executed. The test automatically configures the test based on the system's hardware configuration and will test all devices present. This test runs for two test passes and concludes with a summary table of test results. TEST 50 - A utility that displays the hardware configuration of the system. It displays a listing of all functionality present along with status of each device on the last diagnostic executed. Additionally, this display identifies the current revision of firmware in the system as well as the system I.D. number (used as the system's hardware address when networked). TEST 51 - Allows the user to define a default boot device for automatic bootstrapping of the system. TEST 52 - Allows the user to set default boot flags to be used by the operating system during boot operations. TEST 53 - Allows the user to set default recovery action flags used by the system during power up and also used by the system if an error is detected with the operating environment. TEST 54 - Displays a language inquiry menu on the console device (VAXstation 2000 only) to allow the customer to select the appropriate keyboard type based on the country keyboard in use. On MicroVAX 2000, this function is accomplished through the language set-up utility that is part of the console terminal. TEST 61 - Sends a full screen of E's to the console monitor display (VAXstation 2000 only) allowing a quick check of the monitor's linearity adjustments. TEST 62 - Sends a full white screen to the console monitor display (VAXstation 2000 only) allowing a quick check of the monitor's raster as well as a check of the video controller's display memory. TEST 70 - Allows the customer to format hard disk drives and RX33 floppy diskettes. RX50 diskettes need not use this utility as they come pre-formatted. If formatting a non-Digital Equipment Corporation hard disk drive, this utility goes into a query mode thus allowing the customer to enter drive parameter data prior to actually performing the format operation. Note: Formatting destroys all user data on the disk or diskette being formatted. TEST 71 - A disk verifier utility. This utility does a non-destructive test of hard disk formats to search for new bad blocks on the media since operating system installation and identifies any new bad blocks to the customer. This utility is for use with hard disks only. TEST 90 - A utility that is used with systems that are connected in a network configuration. This utility, when invoked, puts the system in a test mode to provide loopback and system I.D. support to network level diagnostics run from a host or boot node. Working in combination with network level excercisers, this utility assists in verifying the system's network hardware/firmware interface is correctly functioning. TEST 80000050 - A utility that displays all system firmware revision levels by function (i.e. self test, bootstrap code, console code, etc.). Part III - Extended Diagnostics/Maintenance Utilities for Digital Equipment Corporation Field Service Personnel and Licensed Customers This section describes diagnostic functionality that is proprietary to the Digital Equipment Corporation Field Service and Support organizations. This series of routines require the use of a special hardware key to invoke and execute. TEST 60 - A utility that displays a circle/crosshatch pattern on the console monitor (VAXstation 2000 only). It is used by service personnel to check/adjust monitor linearity and aspect ratio. TEST 72 - A utility that writes a special key on scratch floppy diskettes. After running a floppy diskette through this utility, the diskette can then be used with the Field Service system excerciser to do write testing of the floppy diskette subsystem. Floppy diskettes used with the system excerciser that do not have this special key written on the media will do a read test only. TEST 73 - A utility that writes a special key on a scratch TK50 COMPACTape. After running the COMPACTape through this utility, the cartridge can then be used with the Field Service system excerciser to do write testing of the TK50 subsystem. Cartridges used with the system excerciser that do not have this special key written on the media will do a read test only. TEST 101 - Executes the Field Service mode system excerciser. This test excercises each device once sequentially and then excercises all devices concurrently. This sequence is executed for two complete passes of all system devices present in the configuration. Loopback connectors and test media are required to optimize test coverage with this routine. This test automatically stops after two complete passes and displays a test summary. TEST 102 - Executes the Field Service mode system excerciser. It excercises all devices in the system configuration in the same sequence as described for Test 101. However, when Test 102 is invoked, the sequence is repeated continuously until the user types CONTROL/C at the system console. When CONTROL/C is typed, the test terminates at the conclusion of the current test pass and displays a test summary. Note that the user must allow this test to run for at least two complete passes before typing CONTROL/C. TEST 80000106 - Allows the Field Service Engineer to select individual device tests from the total test used in Test 102 described above. Whichever device tests are enabled and executed run in a continuous loop until CONTROL/C is typed at the system console. As with Test 102, the user must allow this test run for at least two complete passes before typing CONTROL/C. Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca) and more info... The Seven Sages Project has moved the mirror of the Vax Archive. It will no longer work if you go to http://www.sevensages.org/vax/. You must now go to http://vaxarchive.sevensages.org/ instead. If enough people complain, I'll shorten that to vax.sevensages.org. Also, I'll also have apache point from /vax/ to the new site. Regards, John Havard Head Geek The Seven Sages Project

26 years, 9 months

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pdp8/f

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

OK, the PDP8/f is in California. As i mentioned before they want $600 for it. This is what it contains: > 1 M8330 > 1 M8310 > 1 M8300 > 1 M837 > 1 M848 > 5 M1709 > 2 M8655 (NOT THE TWO LISTED BELOW) > 1 M849 > 1 M8320 > AND 1 DATARAM DR118 CORE MEMORY I'm still dealing with them over the PDP8 boards I want to buy, which is why i'm hesitant to mention the company at the moment. -Lawrence LeMay

26 years, 9 months

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Floppy disks again

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

Fred Cisin wrote: >http://www.xenosoft.com/fmts.html#720K >will give you a list of some of them. Wow, an impressive list of formats. I'm disappointed that I don't see the grandaddy of them all - IBM 3740 - explicitly listed, though! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 9 months

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Floppy disks again

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Okay, one final question before I drop this topic forever (or until tomorrow, whichever comes first). How is it possible that DD media could be of such poor quality that it can't (reliably?) do 96 TPI, while still being just fine at 48 TPI? I mean, it is recording something like 3000 bits per inch along each track, right? How could that same media not have enough resolution to keep the bits of adjacent tracks separate at less than 100 per inch? Can somebody who believes this can happen give me a mental model of what is going on there? I mean, in terms of physics or geometry or mechanics or anything measurable and specific. It sounds to me like it must be the drive, and not the media, that limits the number of tracks to anything below 1500 TPI. Thanks, Bill.

26 years, 9 months

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Floppy disks again

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Ok, so not as much as at 7:00 this morning... HD media has a higher >coercivity, thus requires more write current to put a bit on the >disk. If you use that much write current with LD media (lower >coercivity) you will get a larger bit. The larger bit will partially >overwrite adjacent bits, leading to low amplitude, and read errors. The "bit" size has more to do with the gap and physical construction of the head, as I remember from my magnetics courses. Yes, the current is obviously interrelated, but the primary factor is the head gap. >Ok, I wasn't aware of any 96tpi drives except the HD ones... Were >they ever used in the PC marketplace, or was it mostly a DEC thing? Yes, there were a few not-quite-100%-PC-compatible clones that used DD media at 96 TPI. There were even 100 TPI drives, just to be incompatible with nearly everybody! (Well, they also eked out a bit more capacity >from the same media, which was a selling point when few had hard drives.) >After re-reading my uVAX manual about the RX50, I agree it is a >96tpi single sided drive, though the manual says: "Use only formatted >RX50 diskettes, available from DIGITAL or its licensed distributors" > >So there are four drives using the same media: >SSDD 180K,48tpi,40tracks/side >DSDD 360K,48tpi,40tracks/side >RX50 360K,96tpi,80tracks/side >???? 720K,96tpi,80tracks/side - What was (is) this called? DSQD? Some aftermarket third-party DEC-compatible controllers have a double-sided RX50 mode that they call "RX52". -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 9 months

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PDP 8/s and I have a CTS-11J available

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

The PDP 8/s is now completely running. It ran for over 10 hours (today and yesterday) with no bugs - not flaky! yes. The high speed reader is *finally* aligned and working well. The 8/s is running all kinds of MAINDEC programs today before the real "binary loader" is run. BTW: The PDP 8/S CPU has 1001 transistors in it (999 if you don't include the two transistors on the core stack) A few things amaze me about this machine. First, the signals are so *clean* on the scope - No noise or rounded/poor waveforms I am use to seeing on TTL units (slower switching rate obviously). Second is the PC0 paper tape drive. DEC managed to get 300 cps through this unit by merely strobing the data off the optical sensors DIRECTLY onto the negibus (no flip flops!)... A real fun treat to align as the punched holes have to appear directly over the sensors half way through the feed. Weirdest thing I have ever seen. The D/A converter is working well and the A/D unit has also been tested. I am hooking up an ASR 33 to it tomorrow so I can start running some *serious* programs on it. Core memory and power supplies have been tuned. I am going to put up a website for it by the end of the week with pictures of this unit. Hopefully a telnet/camera link to it by the end of the month. In total it had: One bad connection on the W108 board (near core - caused from heat) One bad connection on SY R133 board - 2 hours to find that problem - serial everything.. ugghh..(again, near core - heat) One bad transistor on a 302 triple flip flop (my fault, I was actually tired enough to try a spare module...not the way to fix this machine) Alignment on the reader was out by a hair to cause poor data. about 10 hours reading/ 10 hours working hand on. I would like to thank the folks in this group who gave me advice about their experiences with transistor computers which saved me many hours of work and helped to make sure this unit would not be buggy. ----- I am trimming my collection to focus on the real pieces I want to collect. I have a CTS11-J backplane and cards for anyone here who wants to trade anything for it or just plainly really needs it. I also have an H213 core stack if anyone would like to trade some broken/not broken R XXX series flip chips for it. I am going back into storage over the next couple of weeks and should have quite a bit of stuff to find good homes both here and on Ebay. john

26 years, 9 months

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PDP-11/44 assistance....

by west＠tseinc.com

Tony had asked about what chips were in the standard memories board that I posted about.... It is Standard Memories MM-144. Unibus: there's two rows of 20 ram chips each, and underneath that is two rows of 20 empty sockets each. Underneath that is two rows of 19 ram chips each, and underneath it is two rows of 19 empty sockets each. So, (2x20)+(2x19)=78 chips total. The chips are all OKI M3764-20RS. On the right side of the board on the top are three LED's designated +5B, RUN, and U.ERR. Underneath that is a 14 pin DIP jumper pad, and two 8 switch DIPS. Any ideas on how much memory this is and would anyone happen to have docs on this board? Also, I think my previous post about the modules in the 44 wasn't listed correctly. The slots are filled as follows: 1 A-B M7090 CIM 4 A-F M7094 5 A-F M7095 6 A-F M7096 7 A-F M7097 8 A-F M7098 10 A-F MM-144 (see above) 14 A-B first half of M9202 15 A-B 2nd half of M9202 16 D G727A 23 M9302 I found it odd (to my very uninformed mind) that the G727A was stock in slot 16 D with nothing else around it. If I don't want to hook anything up to this system other than a serial console for now, how should I move the above cards around to prevent continuity problems??? Thanks in advance! Jay West

26 years, 9 months

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MicroVAX 2000 questions.

by reif＠magicnet.net

I just rescued two MicroVAX 2000s from the local scrap yard and I'm trying to get them working. I'm getting the following output on a VT330 I have hooked up to the 9 pin serial port: KA410-A V2.3 F_..E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5...4_..3_..2_..1?.. ? E 0040 0000.0005 ? C 0080 0000.4001 ? 6 00A0 0000.4001 ?? 1 00C0 0011.700E >>> I searched the web and found that E means low battery and C means terminal problem. I couldn't find any reference to the other errors. Does anyone have a link to a web site with a full description of the error messages for this machine? Trying to run a test from the >>> prompt doesn't work either. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Bob.

26 years, 9 months

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DEC Module Edge Connectors

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Hi Lawrence: At 03:16 AM 99/10/08 GMT, you wrote: >Sure, if you can dig up teh name of the place that had those wierd connectors >for the PDP8/e, i would be interested in seeing if i could still >obtain some. The place is: Gateway Electronics Inc. 9222 Chesapeake Drive, San Diego, California 92123 (619) 279-6802; Fax (619) 279-7294 They were $2 each. You want 36 pin double sided 0.125" spacing card edge connectors. These are, of course, two rows of 18 pins each. Good luck, Kevin --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca

26 years, 9 months

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