- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Anyone have pointers to good Z-80 Assembly language programming >resources on the net? Any of the CP/M archives will be filled with more Z-80 and 8080 assembly source than you'll know what to do with. For starters, try http://oak.oakland.edu/pub/cpm/ >What books would you recommend for advanced programming topics? If I remember correctly, Rodney Zaks had a book titled "Programming the Z-80" in his lineup. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 9 months

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I EBay snipered these PDP extenders last night. Did anyone else see them?

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- daniel <daniel(a)internet.look.ca> wrote: > I got two quad (looks to be originals for the 11) PDP extender cards for > $21.50! I had to get up at 1 in the morning to nail it. If the spacing is > the same on either side of the middle "slot" then I guess I just have to cut > them down the middle for the PDP 8? Sorry "flipchip". You don't need to cut them... just pull four cards and extend all of them together. At these speeds, the extra length isn't going to kill you. Quad is quad. They can also be used for OMNIBUS cards as well as Qbus/UNIBUS cards. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 9 months

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How to reach more classic computer users?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

While trying to figure out how to reach more PDP-11 users with my freeware archives (immodest plug: See http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/freeware.html for information about the PDP-11 freeware CD's and FTP sites with PDP-11 freeware) it occured to me that I've only been using two methods of announcing availability: this (Classiccmp) mailing list and Usenet newsgroups specific to PDP-11's. It's obvious that these methods of reaching classic computer users hit only a small fraction of active PDP-11 users. There's what, maybe a couple of dozen frequent participants in this mailing list, and the number of regular posters on vmsnet.pdp-11 can be counted on two hands. Is there a better way of reaching a wider audience of classic computer users? In particular, folks who don't read technical Usenet discussion groups and who haven't happened upon this specific mailing list. Or, even in this "connected" world that we live in, is there no better way of reaching what I know is a very broad base of classic computer users out there? One idea that has crossed my mind, but I don't know if there's any way to pull it off: There are obviously lots of "collectors" on E-bay who have little connection with our reality of using classic computers. Is there no way at all of reaching these folks? I don't mean preaching to them, but at least tying them together into a broader knowledge base than the wheeling and dealing on E-bay. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 9 months

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WANTED: IBM parts.

by Henk.J.Stegeman＠is.shell.com

Hi, I still believe in miracles... I am looking for a IBM MST-1 card with P/N 5558222. This card was used by IBM Customer Engineer in an IBM System/3 model 15 (IBM 5415). This card was only available at IBM CE Branch Offices and was needed to diagnose any problems in the so-called 'DA 3277/3284 Attachment' and 'LDA (Local Display Attachment)' in the S/3 model 15. Together with the card came a CE Switchbox P/N 5558132 and overlay P/N 5558224. Anyone who might be able to perform a small miracle... ? Thanks. Henk Stegeman IBM Collector.

26 years, 9 months

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Programming the Z-80

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

Anyone have pointers to good Z-80 Assembly language programming resources on the net? What books would you recommend for advanced programming topics? TIA, Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 9 months

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TImex SInclair 1000 Manual

by edick＠idcomm.com

I'm not surprised. The Sinclairs were very plentiful back in the days when they were of interest. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Glenatacme(a)aol.com <Glenatacme(a)aol.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 9:46 PM Subject: Re: TImex SInclair 1000 Manual >In a message dated 10/17/1999 12:06:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >edick(a)idcomm.com writes: > >> While digging through a box of "stuff" I have, I found a Timex Sinclair >1000 >> manual in used but decent condition and apparently quite complete. Is this >> something best placed on eBay, or do you some of you guys have use for it? > >Actually this is a very common and abundant item. A "perfect" one will >typically fetch less than US$10 on Ebay. > >Glen Goodwin >0/0

26 years, 9 months

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EBaying; howling after an auction

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I've seen this, too. On one particular item that I wanted, >in viewing the "View Sellers Other Auctions", I noticed that >he had a number of them to sell. Spread out over a few days. >I would bid on one and someone would outbid me. I'd bid on >another and someone would outbid me. I finally just said forget >it, this is getting ridiculous. :-) Certainly, E-bay does provides tools for many "commodity" type items to compare one sale with past ones, so you know what a reasonable bid is. There are evidently folks who don't know how to use this, and it doesn't really bother me, I just feel kind-of-sorry for them. Other E-bay phenomena: 1. Items (like HP C3010 2 Gbyte SCSI drives) that have been flooding the surplus market. These are available from liquidators like www.hitechcafe.com and www.compgeeks.com for $30-$35-$40, but I've seen them bid up into the $50-$60 range on E-bay very regularly. Same thing often happens for surplus PC-clone mainboards. 2. What really amazes me is when a seller makes a reserve price auction, very plainly states the reserve price in the item description, and there are literally dozens of bids made *below* the stated reserve price. What the ???. Either the bidders think this is entirely a "bidding game", where the objective is to outbid the other guy with no real intention to buy, or they don't read the description at all, or they haven't a clue period. Tim.

26 years, 9 months

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EBaying; howling after an auction

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>>>Either bid at the end, and I mean well within the last minute if not the >>>last 10 seconds or so, or bid the full amount you are willing to pay for >>>the item. >> >> If you're bidding on something that you really want, be prepared to be awake >>and in front of your machine when the auction ends. Everyone learns this >>after >>a while. >Or just bid your full amount to start with. Lots of people use eBay like a >email store and just place an order, with a bid that delivers 90% of the >time. I've done that - usually for some oddball item that nobody else would likely want, anyway. I've been following the E-bay auctions for SCSI drives closely in the past month or two, and what's *really* amazing is that sometimes there'll be 4 identical items, all from the same seller, all closing within minutes of each other, and in one auction the drive is bid up to $180.00 and in an another auctions the cost settles around $60-$70. Someone here said that E-bay is perhaps one of the harshest marketplaces around, implying (I think) that it's pure open competition with commonly available knowledge, but this isn't always the case: some of the bidders haven't a clue as to what's going on, and instead of treating the auction as what it is - a business transaction - they get caught up in the frenzy of bidding. (It takes at least *two* such bidders to bid the price up to ridiculous heights.) I personally don't understand "sniping" at all - it isn't necessary. Set your maximum bid what you're willing to pay. If someone else outbids you, you didn't "lose" - "losing" is when you pay more than you're willing, not when someone outbids you! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 9 months

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TImex SInclair 1000 Manual

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

In a message dated 10/17/1999 12:06:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, edick(a)idcomm.com writes: > While digging through a box of "stuff" I have, I found a Timex Sinclair 1000 > manual in used but decent condition and apparently quite complete. Is this > something best placed on eBay, or do you some of you guys have use for it? Actually this is a very common and abundant item. A "perfect" one will typically fetch less than US$10 on Ebay. Glen Goodwin 0/0

26 years, 9 months

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DEC boards unearthed - I have some info

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 11:28 PM Subject: Re: DEC boards unearthed - I have some info >> >> Yes, it is. It was called the 11/05 in 72 but later docs called it the >> 11/10. > >Hmm... I've seen 5.25" boxes with both 11/05 and 11/10 nameplates on the >front (no, not on the same machine :-)). I think the only 10.5" one I saw >was an 11/10, but I'd happilly believe in the existance of a 10.5" 11/05 Actually I have one... It says 11/05 on a 10 1/2" box (one of the first knocked out). I will be putting pictures of it up on my website with the 8/s, honeywell, 34,45,73,accuray,etc... > >I tend to regard the 11/05 and 11/10 as the same machine. Same boards, >same boxes, etc. Ditto for the 11/35 and 11/40. Even DEC got fed up with >the dual numbering scheme later on (the 11/39 was going to be the >end-user version of the 11/34, and some early manuals mention it. AFAIK >it never existed. Ditto for the 11/09). > > >> >> Anyway, do you have an 11/05 running and do you have any PDP 8s you collect? > >I've got a working 5.25" 11/05 here. And another one that's much hacked. > >Got a couple of Omnibus 8's.... > >> I am trying to find blank backplanes for the old flipchip modules (r series) > >What's special about them? Don't R series fit any DEC connector blocks? >You said you want them blank, so can't you unwrap some other backplane? > No, I was hoping for one with the usual power strips already attached. I have enough r-series spares to design the intel 4004 with flip chips. >-tony >

26 years, 9 months

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DEC boards unearthed - I have some info

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

Yes, it is. It was called the 11/05 in 72 but later docs called it the 11/10. Anyway, do you have an 11/05 running and do you have any PDP 8s you collect? I am trying to find blank backplanes for the old flipchip modules (r series) john -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 11:08 PM Subject: Re: DEC boards unearthed - I have some info >> You don't have all the prints then. I have prints outlineing your two +: >> >> >> Module Utilization: >> >> Slot 9: M930 /Stack >> Slot 8: G231 >> Slot 7: G110 >> Slot 6: G231 >> Slot 5: G110 >> Slot 4: M930 / Stack >> Slot 3: M7261 >> Slot 2: M7260 >> Slot 1: Bf11 / M9970 / Km11A / KM11B >> >> (16k) > >Are you sure that's not the backplane for the 10.5" box (BA11-K)? That >one does have the CPU on the right (and Unibus out on slot 9 on the >left). > >-tony >

26 years, 9 months

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DEC boards unearthed - I have some info

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 9:01 PM Subject: Re: DEC boards unearthed - I have some info >> >There are at least 3 different backplanes, but the 11/05 and 11/10 can >> >use any of them. The 11/05 and 11/10 are really the same machine -- the >> >differences seem to be what was included when the machine was originally >> >shipped. >> > >> >The first backplane goes in the 5.25" box. The CPU cards go at the bottom >> >(in slots 8 and 9). >> >> No, CPU goes in slots 2&3, the maintenance board goes in slot 1. > >I was absolutely certain the CPU went in slots 8 and 9 in the 5.25" box, >so I've got the printset out. I was right about the CPU, but wrong about >Unibus out (which comes from slot 2 or 3 depending on the version, >because as you said, the KM11 goes in slot 1 _or 2_) . Here's the 'module >utilization' : > >8K version >Slot 1 A-B : not used, C-F : SPC >Slot 2 A : KM11, B : KM11, C-F : SPC >Slot 3 A-B : Unibus Out (or M930 terminator), C-F : SPC >Slot 4 A-B : not used, C-F : SPC >Slot 5 A-B : M930 (terminator) C-F : H213 or H214 core stack >Slot 6 : G231 Memory Driver >Slot 7 : G110 Control/Data loops >Slot 8 : M7261 Control logic and microprogram (CPU control) >SLot 9 : M7260 Data Paths (CPU Data) > >16K version >Slot 1 A : KM11, B : KM11, C-F : SPC >Slot 2 A-B : Unibus Out (or M930 termiator), C-F : H213 or H214 core stack >Slot 3 : G231 Memory Driver >Slot 4 : G110 Control/Data loops >Slot 5 A-B : M930 (terminator) C-F : H213 or H214 core stack >Slot 6 : G231 Memory Driver >Slot 7 : G110 Control/Data loops >Slot 8 : M7261 Control logic and microprogram (CPU control) >SLot 9 : M7260 Data Paths (CPU Data) > > You don't have all the prints then. I have prints outlineing your two +: Module Utilization: Slot 9: M930 /Stack Slot 8: G231 Slot 7: G110 Slot 6: G231 Slot 5: G110 Slot 4: M930 / Stack Slot 3: M7261 Slot 2: M7260 Slot 1: Bf11 / M9970 / Km11A / KM11B (16k) I have 3 different print sets as the company I got all this equipment from was an inital beta test site for the 11/05. > >-tony >

26 years, 9 months

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DesqView/X v2.0 Disk needed....

by dann＠greycat.com

All right, I guess it's not under the 10-year rule, but I'm desparate, and this audience is the most likely to understand... I have an old Toshiba T3200SXC portable. It's the only DOS based machine I have left, and the only one, therefore, that will run my prom-burner software (Don't ask...) and some essential DOS based utilities. I had it hooked to my network and did things such as burn "BIOS" EPROMs for my VS3100's. The networking depended on some of the capabilities of DESQVIEW/X. Recently I *really* (&(*$^*%$ up, and managed to blow up my setup on that machine. Rebuilt everything, went to load DV/X and .... got an unrecoverable read error on my only copy of Disk #2. Aborts the install completely. In the midst of my preparations for hara-kiri, it came to me: Maybe someone out there had a copy of DV/X who would be willing to send me what's on Disk #2, or at the least, the bad file. The file is one of the compressed files, MERGECFG.EX_. The version of DV/X I'm using is 2.00. Quarterdeck/Symantec is no use; they don't even mention DV on their web page. As I said, I'm desparate, and again apologize for the (possibly) OT stuff. If you have v2 of DV/X around somewhere, or know where I can get that file, let me know. If you've got a full copy of DV/X you're willing to sell, and the disks are still readable (:-)), let me know that, too. Thanks! Dann Lunsford

26 years, 9 months

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Help! ID this Xerox mouse

by jlewczyk＠his.com

I have recently come into posession of what certainly appears to be a Xerox mouse and I am wondering if you can help be identify it, that is, what machine it was used on. It has no markings on the case, cable or connector. It has the same appearance as one used on the Alto with three grey buttons, beige case, exactly like the the one pictured here. http://www.newmedianews.com/pictures/1998/10/09/th_alto/3.jpg However, it is an optical mouse, unlike the "rolling ball bearing" mouse described in the Byte magazine article in Sept 1981 here. http://www.byte.com/art/9609/sec4/art3.htm It has a black cable, not too long, about 28", terminated in a grey db-9, not molded, but hand assembled. Here are two pictures of it, taken with my scanner. http://www.his.com/~jlewczyk/MyXeroxMouse.jpg (123K) http://www.his.com/~jlewczyk/MyXeroxMouseBottom.jpg (60K) Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. I'd love to verify if it works! Are pin-outs available for it? John jlewczyk(a)his.com

26 years, 9 months

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My Biggest eBay gripe..

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

-----Original Message----- From: John Lawson <jpl15(a)netcom.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 8:57 PM Subject: My Biggest eBay gripe.. > > > My main concern with the eBay auction algorithm is that it is >time-limited, rather than bid-limited.... the aution closes after a >fixed span **no matter what the bidding activity is**. > > 'Normal' auctions close when **no further bids are recieved** in an >agreed-upon span. > > I have bought and sold hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of >aerospace and industrial surplus at auctions large and small, >sealed-bid and open-floor, honestly run and 'otherwise'. The reason >I dislike the eBay model is that the item most often goes to the >fastest/luckiest bidder (sniper)... and that's totally wacked, IMHO. > > I am not going to join the "capitalism vs. overvaluation" debate. >I'm a captialist *and* a collector... that's internal conflict >enough. > > I wonder how much tweaking would be involved on the part of eBay's >logicians to convert it over to the more familiar "going, going, >gone!" type of format. > > What do You All think?? > I emailed EBay asking them to extend an auction by 10 minutes every time a bid comes in close to the closing (within the last 10 minutes) . No response yet... I love the snipering though.. have gotten many great deals because people won't bid what they are willing to pay if they think no one else will bid. > Cheers > >John > > >

26 years, 9 months

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EBaying; howling after an auction

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

-----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 8:38 PM Subject: Re: EBaying; howling after an auction >>I've seen this, too. On one particular item that I wanted, >>in viewing the "View Sellers Other Auctions", I noticed that >>he had a number of them to sell. Spread out over a few days. >>I would bid on one and someone would outbid me. I'd bid on >>another and someone would outbid me. I finally just said forget >>it, this is getting ridiculous. :-) > >Certainly, E-bay does provides tools for many "commodity" type items >to compare one sale with past ones, so you know what a reasonable bid >is. There are evidently folks who don't know how to use this, and >it doesn't really bother me, I just feel kind-of-sorry for them. > >Other E-bay phenomena: > >1. Items (like HP C3010 2 Gbyte SCSI drives) that have been >flooding the surplus market. These are available from liquidators >like www.hitechcafe.com and www.compgeeks.com for $30-$35-$40, but >I've seen them bid up into the $50-$60 range on E-bay very regularly. >Same thing often happens for surplus PC-clone mainboards. > >2. What really amazes me is when a seller makes a reserve price auction, >very plainly states the reserve price in the item description, and >there are literally dozens of bids made *below* the stated reserve >price. What the ???. Either the bidders think this is entirely a >"bidding game", where the objective is to outbid the other guy with >no real intention to buy, or they don't read the description at all, or they >haven't a clue period. > Easy, to track the auction and get an email with the info about the auction (for future reference). Auction programs help you when you have a bid in. >Tim. >

26 years, 9 months

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DEC boards unearthed - I have some info

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 2:54 PM Subject: Re: DEC boards unearthed - I have some info >> >> One of the other interesting items are a M7260/M7251 pair, one marked >> >> "datapath", one marked "11/05 control". These are clearly the CPU for an >> >> 11/05, but will they go into an 11/04 or short (not BA-11) 11/34 chassis >> >> for testing? >> > >> >You need the 11/05 (or 11/10 -- they're the same) backplane and >> >frontpanel for these. There was a 5.25" box versions and a 10.5" box >> >version with _different_ backplanes. They won't work in an 11/04 or 11/34 >> >backplane, though >> > >> > >> >> Actually the 11/05 and the 11/10 have two different backplanes (as I have >> both) and the cards are fitted differently in each one. Keep your H214 > >There are at least 3 different backplanes, but the 11/05 and 11/10 can >use any of them. The 11/05 and 11/10 are really the same machine -- the >differences seem to be what was included when the machine was originally >shipped. > >The first backplane goes in the 5.25" box. The CPU cards go at the bottom >(in slots 8 and 9). No, CPU goes in slots 2&3, the maintenance board goes in slot 1. The next 3 slots are for one set of core memory >boards. And then 4 SPC slots, with Unibus out on slot 1 (top of box -- >yes, I do have this the right way round!). > >The second backplane is similar, and also goes in the 5.25" box. Again >the CPU goes in the bottom. The next 6 slots are for 2 sets of core >memory, with a single SPC (and unibus out) at the top (slot 1) > >The third backplane goes in the BA11-K 10.5" box. The CPU goes on the far >right (slots 1 and 2). Unibus out is on slot 9 (as you'd expect). One of >the A+B slots is for a paddleboard that connects to the the console >cable. I can't remember how many core memory sets you can put into it. > >> 74 - if the back of the boards are green (solder masked) >> 72/73 - if there is no baud selection switch > >Hmmm... They're strictly different systems -- the rotary switch implies >it's an 11/05S board set. This has 2 extra features, firstly you can >easily disable the on-board console port (if you want to use a DL11 for >some reason) and secondly you can disable the unibus arbiter so that the >CPU can be a slave device on the unibus of another machine. > >> >> The best backplane I have is from someone who completely modified a PDP >> 11/05 (16K backplane).He took out the second core memory set and completely >> hand wired the RK11-D on it. Yikes. It works and I still have the plane if > >Seems reasonable. Modifying backplanes isn't _that_ hard if you are >careful. I've done a couple of major backplane mods. The best thing to do >is to make a wirelist and tick off each wire as you do it. Oh, and don't >bother with one of those slit-n-wrap tools -- the general experience of >those is that about 10% of the connections are actually good. Do the job >properly, and it will work. > >-tony >

26 years, 9 months

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PS/2 Model 50 help wanted

by peter.pachla＠vectrex.freeserve.co.uk

I've already posted this to the PS/2 newsgroup but thought I'd drop it in here too just in case - I believe the machine in question is old enough (or odd enough) to qualify. Basically I'm in the process of restoring a Model 50 I was given recently and was wondering if anyone could point me at a technical reference guide for the machine? I also have a couple of questions. 1) The machine contains what I assume to be the hard disc controller, what capacity/type of drives will the machine accept - and where can I get one? 2) Can the machine accept 2.88Mb drives (this one is purely out of interest)? 3) There is an expansion card with no markings on installed in the slot farthest away from the PSU. It is connected to what appears to be the processor socket ('286 right?) by a section of flexible PCB. The card has a daughter board attached which is about half as long as the card. The visible part of the main PCB contains three (empty) 72-pin SIMM sockets. Any ideas on what this may be (some sort of turbo board, 386SX upgrade, etc)? Was it fitted as standard or was it added later? 4) The "paddle" on the power switch has been broken off. Can I get a replacement switch or do I need to get a new PSU? Thanks. TTFN - Pete. -- Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer. Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC) peter.pachla(a)wintermute.org.uk | peter.pachla(a)vectrex.freeserve.co.uk | peter.pachla(a)virgin.net | peter.pachla(a)wintermute.free-online.co.uk | www.wintermute.free-online.co.uk --

26 years, 9 months

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PS/2 Model 50 help wanted

by allisonp＠world.std.com

I have one of these PS2/M50Z. Nice boxen! There wer two versions the M50 and the M50Z. The latter was the faster 286 of the two. <1) The machine contains what I assume to be the hard disc controller, what <capacity/type of drives will the machine accept - and where can I get one? The two standard controllers were 20mb or 60mb but there were later ones to I think 120mb. <2) Can the machine accept 2.88Mb drives (this one is purely out of interest Not that I know of. <3) There is an expansion card with no markings on installed in the slot <farthest away from the PSU. It is connected to what appears to be the <processor socket ('286 right?) by a section of flexible PCB. Likely a memory expansion. <4) The "paddle" on the power switch has been broken off. Can I get a <replacement switch or do I need to get a new PSU? best source is a PS/2 wreck (most any of the older models.). there is a web site that has PS/2 info. Can't seem to find it right now. Allison

26 years, 9 months

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How to reach more classic computer users?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>>One idea that has crossed my mind, but I don't know if there's any way >>to pull it off: There are obviously lots of "collectors" on E-bay who have >Between newsgroups and this list you have informed a number of people who >tend to blab, so lots more get key information. True, but for every well-connected classic computer user (and I rank all subscribers to classiccmp as "well-connected"!) I'm willing to bet there are 1000 others who don't have a clue as to what free resources there are on the web for their old platform, be it a PDP-11 or a CP/M machine or a IBM 1401 :-). >Ebay is simple, put some up for auction. Its an AD. I'm more concerned with hooking up users with all the free software archives that are already out there, than with selling any particular item. Even many of our "collector" pages, where folks put up pictures of their favorite old computers, often do a very poor job of connecting random readers to useful resources. Am I completely misguided in wanting to reach more people - in particular, folks we haven't already reached - so that they can more effectively use their classic computers? Many of our efforts on this list are confined to the small circle of those who are already "in the know". -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 9 months

6
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Outbid

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<One thing that I myself forget at eBay is that you can state a maximum bid <and the machine will automagically bid for you in the stated increments <until the auction either ends or your maximum bid limit is reached. Ick, my machine can out bid you machine. Ah, shades of the 87 stockmarket. I think I stay away from online auctions for another few years. Allison

26 years, 9 months

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Outbid

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:44:55 -0700 "Mark" <markiw(a)prodigy.net> writes: >>About a week ago I put a bid on a Micro PDP-11/23 on ebay. I was top >>bidder until the end. > >Don't you hate it when that happens? > >One thing that I myself forget at eBay is that you can state a maximum >bid and the machine will automagically bid for you in the stated >increments >until the auction either ends or your maximum bid limit is reached. > >I am writing this on a computer I got there last year at about half >the going price that way. As eBay has gotten popular it is getting harder >to just watch the auctions and bid yourself. In fact, I no longer shop >there anymore as I think the prices have gone postal. Well, despite your astute observation, there *are* some bargains to be had. I just got an NOS 8" FDD for <$4. YOu just have to know which items are likely to go 'postal' and stay away. . . Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 9 months

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Outbid

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Now see guys? That's the kinda pricing *I* like to see! (It's the only kind I can afford . . . .) Jeff >Let me add a data point, lest Randy or others be left with the idea >that ebay prices are universal. Last month I bought an 11/73 for $5; the >zeros came *after* the decimal point. > >-- >Kevin >schoedel(a)kw.igs.net ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 9 months

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Outbid

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

-----Original Message----- From: schoedel(a)kw.igs.net <schoedel(a)kw.igs.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 12:54 PM Subject: Re: Outbid >>Randy, I have another 11/73 loaded I was going to put up on EBay , you can >>have it for $300. It has a tape drive, RD52, memory, 8 line serial port, >>runs, its missing one switch on the front and the bottom of the stand is >>cracked.. other than that it runs micro rsx - happy machine. I think I might >>be able to dig up an RX50 for it as well. > >Let me add a data point, lest Randy or others be left with the idea that >ebay prices are universal. Last month I bought an 11/73 for $5; the zeros >came *after* the decimal point. and I am picking up: 2 Honeywell 316 systems with 4 (I repeat) 4 - PDP 11/05s with 2 RK05 on each) - FOR FREE! Either: 1- Straight 8 with full docs or 1- IBM 360 for $200. I don't think I'll sell any of them for less than $1000. Just because we get something for $5 or free does not mean they are *worth* that. (and I'm not even talking EBay dollars!) john > >-- >Kevin >schoedel(a)kw.igs.net >

26 years, 9 months

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Apple II-C

by edick＠idcomm.com

Another thing I've had lying about for a number of years is an apple II-C. Is there anything one can do with this thing hardware-wise to use it for some for of fairly complete I/O processing? If I pry it open, will I find anything there to which I could attach a cable and bring out, say, sufficient signals, etc, to drive a PIA or some such? Is there a bit of free software one can use to develop code for this thing? I'd like to fiddle with it if it allows putzing with I/O, since I'm always trying to stimulate/monitor SOMETHING to see how/whether it works. A simple box like the II-C might be just the thing. Any suggestions? Dick

26 years, 9 months

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Outbid

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

Randy, I have another 11/73 loaded I was going to put up on EBay , you can have it for $300. It has a tape drive, RD52, memory, 8 line serial port, runs, its missing one switch on the front and the bottom of the stand is cracked.. other than that it runs micro rsx - happy machine. I think I might be able to dig up an RX50 for it as well. If you want it or anyone else please email me. -----Original Message----- From: Randy Kaplan <rkaplan(a)accsys-corp.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 10:47 AM Subject: Outbid >Hello all - > >About a week ago I put a bid on a Micro PDP-11/23 on ebay. I was top >bidder until the end. Of course the end was when I was asleep (3 AM) >this morning (serves me right for sleeping). Got up and was very >disappointed. Since the recent discussion about collectors vs. >enthusiasts I thought I would share this with the group. As a new >collector, I have been reading alot about sources and establishing >networks but they are not in place yet so one of my main venues is ebay >at this time. I plan to start contacting scrappers, universities, and >friends in companies soon. But, alas, today a PDP-11/23 flew by. > >Randy Kaplan >

26 years, 9 months

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DEC boards unearthed - I have some info

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- daniel <daniel(a)internet.look.ca> wrote: > >> One of the other interesting items are a M7260/M7261 pair... > Actually the 11/05 and the 11/10 have two different backplanes (as I have > both) and the cards are fitted differently in each one. Keep your H214 > memory and G231/G110 core drivers.. The 11/05 uses that for it's own memory. > The older 11/05 backplane did not use +15V either! Given where this stuff came from (there's an inventory sticker glued to the back of one of the CPU boards of the company I rescued it from), that all makes sense. > Which CPU boards do you have. It's easy to tell. Does one of them have a > rotary switch to set the baud rate? It's not in front of me, but I do rememeber spotting one of those button rotaries on there and wondering what it was for. I recovnize it as usually being for baud rate, but I was guessing it was some kind of timing adjustment. > To get an 11/05 running you need: To jump in out of turn, IIRC, this particular unit also came to me with an RX11 controller. > M7260 > M7261 Check. > G231 X 2 > G110 X 2 > H214 X2 Well... I've only got 16K > G727 (grant) I have crates of those, including several "Grantasaurous Rex" cards, the original third-party double grant card (NPR plus the other three). I should scan one. For those that haven't seen them, they have no colored handle, but the PCB is but into a soft-edged T-handle with a dinosaur silkscreened in red on the "component" side. Somewhere, I still have the original artwork. Software Results Corp made and shipped one with every COMBOARD(R) > You don't need a console serial board (M7800) as that was built into the CPU > board. I didn't know that. I take it that it uses the standard DL11 cable? > You can tell the year of the PDP 11/05 CPU set by: > > 74 - if the back of the boards are green (solder masked) Bingo. > I have restored many PDP 11/05s for "collectors" - yes, at $875 a pop! Stunning. > I have about 5-6 cpu sets, 1 is beta. Interesting. > >> Finally, we come to an RK11D board set... M7254 through M7257. > I have two sets of these and run 8 RK05s, again, restored many of these. You > need a RK11-D backplane. I'm not sure I have one of those. > You can hand wire one (yes I know many who have for UNIBUS operation I can probably come up with the goodies to do that. I have the remnants of a PDP-8/L that came as parts with the first one I got... the chassis was broken (mounting bar in the front), the front panel scavenged, no core and obviously broken wires on the backplane. I wish I hadn't now, but I did remove the remaining wires from the backplane (one at a time, documenting them because it was the only way at the time to try and understand how the other one worked). The end result is that I have a set of DEC backplane blocks I could wire into a different configuration. I recycled the stamped metal bus strips on a couple segments into the upper address bits on a BA11N way back. DEC used to sell that stuff by the foot. I'd love to get a spool of it (Ha!) > The best backplane I have is from someone who completely modified a PDP > 11/05 (16K backplane).He took out the second core memory set and completely > hand wired the RK11-D on it. Yikes. It works and I still have the plane if > you are interested in the wire list to do that. Wow. Much work. I'll get back to you if I can't find an RK11D backplane. > The PDP 11/05 needs AClow, DClow,5V, -15V. > > The newer ones required +15V. Muchas Gracias. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 9 months

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DEC boards unearthed - I have some info

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, October 16, 1999 6:52 PM Subject: Re: DEC boards unearthed >> One of the other interesting items are a M7260/M7251 pair, one marked >> "datapath", one marked "11/05 control". These are clearly the CPU for an >> 11/05, but will they go into an 11/04 or short (not BA-11) 11/34 chassis >> for testing? > >You need the 11/05 (or 11/10 -- they're the same) backplane and >frontpanel for these. There was a 5.25" box versions and a 10.5" box >version with _different_ backplanes. They won't work in an 11/04 or 11/34 >backplane, though > > Actually the 11/05 and the 11/10 have two different backplanes (as I have both) and the cards are fitted differently in each one. Keep your H214 memory and G231/G110 core drivers.. The 11/05 uses that for it's own memory. The older 11/05 backplane did not use +15V either! Which CPU boards do you have. It's easy to tell. Does one of them have a rotary switch to set the baud rate? To get an 11/05 running you need: M7260 M7261 G231 X 2 G110 X 2 H214 X2 G727 (grant) You don't need a console serial board (M7800) as that was built into the CPU board. You can tell the year of the PDP 11/05 CPU set by: 74 - if the back of the boards are green (solder masked) 72/73 - if there is no baud selection switch 72 (beta) - hand stamped date before June 72, and a different layout of the M7261 (with loads of wires) I have restored many PDP 11/05s for "collectors" - yes, at $875 a pop! I have about 5-6 cpu sets, 1 is beta. >> >> Finally, we come to an RK11D board set... M7254 through M7257. What else is >> needed to make a working controller? A custom backplane? Paddle cards? I > >Again you need the right backplane. Apart from that, not a lot -- the >cabling is the standard BC11 Unibus cables (both for the Unibus and to >link up the RK05 drives). > >> think I've got an RKV11 box attached to an 11/03 (I haven't pulled it out of > >IIRC 3 of the 4 cards in that box are the same as the ones for the >RK11-D. The bus control is different (I think). > >> the corner yet) If I'm missing too much of it, I can probably fix the RK11C >> that I got with my first RK05 drives. I've never used it and neither did the > >Oh, RK11-Cs are fun to fix (for suitable values of 'fun'). I learnt about >hard disk controllers, Unibus DMA cycles, etc while tracking down a dead >chip in mine. Having the printset is _essential_, though! > >I have prints for the RK11-C and RK11-D, and the PDP11/05. I don't think >I have the RKV11-D set anywhere, but it can't be that hard to figure out. I have two sets of these and run 8 RK05s, again, restored many of these. You need a RK11-D backplane. You can hand wire one (yes I know many who have) for UNIBUS operation - PDP 11/05. The best backplane I have is from someone who completely modified a PDP 11/05 (16K backplane).He took out the second core memory set and completely hand wired the RK11-D on it. Yikes. It works and I still have the plane if you are interested in the wire list to do that. The PDP 11/05 needs AClow, DClow,5V, -15V. The newer ones required +15V. > >-tony >

26 years, 9 months

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DEC boards unearthed

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1270 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991017/6b937f44/at…

26 years, 9 months

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Outbid

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Curious what are they going for? I'm still finding them for free to $100 a really nice corperate system complete might be worth more if you can haul it in the associted racks. Allison <About a week ago I put a bid on a Micro PDP-11/23 on ebay. I was top <bidder until the end. Of course the end was when I was asleep (3 AM) <this morning (serves me right for sleeping). Got up and was very <disappointed. Since the recent discussion about collectors vs. <enthusiasts I thought I would share this with the group. As a new <collector, I have been reading alot about sources and establishing <networks but they are not in place yet so one of my main venues is ebay <at this time. I plan to start contacting scrappers, universities, and <friends in companies soon. But, alas, today a PDP-11/23 flew by.

26 years, 9 months

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Kaypro Computer History

by markiw＠prodigy.net

Thanks for the KayPro history reminder. I have not forgotten the Web page project and have just added your note to the file. I will get moving on it as soon as the weather turns winter. And please people, send me some scans of any and all KayPro graphics/photos you might have. So far only one gentleman has sent anything. Let's not let these fine machines be forgotten. (Okay, so maybe I should get a life, huh?) Send your KayPro scans to me at tgycwr(a)yahoo.com best. Thanks, Jim Rossbach, Visit the Web sites of Navy Vietnam Veterans at the Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club, http://tonkinyachts.cjb.net >

26 years, 9 months

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Outbid

by markiw＠prodigy.net

>About a week ago I put a bid on a Micro PDP-11/23 on ebay. I was top >bidder until the end. Don't you hate it when that happens? One thing that I myself forget at eBay is that you can state a maximum bid and the machine will automagically bid for you in the stated increments until the auction either ends or your maximum bid limit is reached. I am writing this on a computer I got there last year at about half the going price that way. As eBay has gotten popular it is getting harder to just watch the auctions and bid yourself. In fact, I no longer shop there anymore as I think the prices have gone postal. Regards, Jim Rossbach, Visit the Web sites of Navy Vietnam Veterans at the Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club, http://tonkinyachts.cjb.net

26 years, 9 months

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Outbid

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

If you're going to bid on e-bay, be prepared to get hurt. It's the most unforgiving marketplace on earth. It is regularly prowled by individuals with *extremely* deep pockets. Jeff On Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:47:38 -0400 Randy Kaplan <rkaplan(a)accsys-corp.com> writes: >Hello all - > >About a week ago I put a bid on a Micro PDP-11/23 on ebay. I was top >bidder until the end. Of course the end was when I was asleep (3 AM) >this morning (serves me right for sleeping). Got up and was very >disappointed. Since the recent discussion about collectors vs. >enthusiasts I thought I would share this with the group. As a new >collector, I have been reading alot about sources and establishing >networks but they are not in place yet so one of my main venues is >ebay >at this time. I plan to start contacting scrappers, universities, and >friends in companies soon. But, alas, today a PDP-11/23 flew by. > >Randy Kaplan > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 9 months

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Commodore manuals

by edick＠idcomm.com

While passing time on a snowy day when I didn't want to go outside yesterday, I saw the manual for a Commodore 64 while sifting through the rubble. I also found a VIC-20 manual while doing this sifting. Would this be of interest to anyone? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 10:13 AM Subject: TImex SInclair 1000 Manual While digging through a box of "stuff" I have, I found a Timex Sinclair 1000 manual in used but decent condition and apparently quite complete. Is this something best placed on eBay, or do you some of you guys have use for it? Dick

26 years, 9 months

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Kaypro Computer History

by philclayton＠mindspring.com

Since everyone is on the subject of Kaypro here is some information that I have compiled from articles I have read.. Kaypro BTW is my favorite computer I have at least one of every model in my collection, excluding a Kaypro Robie.. ALso have a Model 16 .. Perhaps someone could update this list and ad to it.. The more information the better.. Hope this is of some interest to everyone.. Phil... Kaypro Computer and Non-Linear Systems After Adam Osborne came out with the O-1, it was immediately set up as a target. Every company started shooting at the magic price of $1800. Among the people to set their sights at this figure was Alan Kay. Alan had originally started a company which sold oscilloscopes called Non-Linear Systems. He decided Osborne had the right idea, but needed a little tweaking on the case. He envisioned a computer which would not only be rugged enough to be carried around, but would be tough enough to be carried out in the field by engineers. With this idea in mind, he designed the Kaypro Computer. The case was made of aluminum which allowed it to be extremely rugged, but still save a little weight. These are sometimes nicknamed "Darth Vader's lunch box." Needless to say, this case passed the test for ruggedness. Except for the Robie and later DOS machines, all Kaypros had the same case and varying shades of gray paint. All the computers came bundled with software, originally the Perfect Series, but later WordStar and SuperCalc. Kay originally sold his computers under the company name of Kaypro, but it turned out this name had already been taken. He then sold the computers under the Non-Linear name, but was able to keep the Kaypro name on the computers. Somewhere along the way, he did manage to acquire the rights to Kaypro Company, but it was late in the company's life. The Kaypro II is the oldest computer Kaypro made. It has SSDD disks and the screen is green and it has the standard 64 K of RAM. After Kaypro left Chapter 11, they came out with several DOS compatibles, but were no longer considered a force in the industry. There were several unique units that came out including some extremely compact units that were designed to be desktop computers but were light enough to be carried from place to place. Kaypro II In the beginning there was the Kaypro II (aka II'83 later). It came with 2 SS/DD full-height floppies, a 2.5 MHz Z-80, one serial port, and bundled software from Perfect Software. Introduced late 82. Kaypro 10 Next was the original Kaypro 10. It came with 1 DS/DD floppy drive, a 10 meg HD, a 4.0 MHz Z-80A, two serial ports, light pen port, rudimentary graphics, a real time clock, and software from Perfect Software and dBase II. Introduced mid-83. Kaypro IV Then there was a Kaypro IV (aka IV'83 later). It was a II, but with DS/DD full-height floppy drives. Wordstar started being included in addition to the Perfect Software suite. Introduced in mid-83. (Same goes for the II'83, late versions included Wordstar also.) 1984 rolls around, and some changes made. Kaypro 4 The 4 (aka 4'84) is introduced. It now has two DS/DD half-height floppy drives, a Z-80A at 4.0 MHz, 2 serial ports, internal 300 baud modem, a real-time clock, rudimentary graphics. Software is from Micropro (Wordstar, Calcstar, etc.) Early 1984. Kaypro 2 The 2 (aka 2'83) is introduced. It has two SS/DD half-height floppy drives, a Z-80A at 4.0 MHz, 2 serial ports, rudimentary graphics. Software is from Micropro. Slightly later in 84. Kaypro 2X The 2X is introduced. This is closer to an old IV, or a 2 with DS/DD half-height drives. Again a Z-80A running at 4.0 MHz, 2 serial ports, rudimentary graphics, software from Micropro. Kaypro Robbie Early 84. The Kaypro Robie is introduced. This is the first non-portable machine, a black desktop. This has 2 2.6 Megabyte (not a typo) floppy drives. Motherboard is basically the same as a 4, with the 300 baud modem, rough graphics, etc. (late 84?) 1985 arrives. Kaypro upgrades most of the machines to the "Universal ROM", so a boot disk for one can be used in another. The 4'84 is renamed the 2X (sometimes known as 2X MTC). Old 2X, 2'84, 4'84 are all dropped. Kaypro New 2 The "New 2" is introduced. This is basically an old 2X motherboard, but with just one DS/DD floppy drive. It comes with just CP/M and Wordstar for software. (early 85?) Kaypro starts producing the II'83 again, with Perfect software as opposed to Micropro software. (early 85). Kaypro 4X The Kaypro 4X is announced. It's a Robie but in the standard portable case. I also have seen reference to the 12X, which was going to be a Kaypro 10 but with a Robie floppy drive. (I've never actually seen a 4X or a 12X. The store where I worked might have sold only one or two Robies, so it wasn't a big seller.) 1986 or so arrives. Kaypro 1 The Kaypro 1 (yes one) is introduced. It's equivalent to the old 2X, with 2 DS/DD floppies, 4.0 MHz Z-80A, 2 serial ports, etc. The floppies are vertical as opposed to horizontal. It comes with CP/M and Perfect Writer for software. At this point, Kaypro is producing just the 1, 2X MTC, 10 and Robie basically. This continued until they got out of the CP/M machines. There were also a few variations on some of these machines, such as the 4+88, which had a SWP (?) co-processor board with an 8088, 256K of memory (which could be a ramdisk under CP/M), and could run some MS/Dos software.

26 years, 9 months

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identify this PDP11 core

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

What PDP11 system accepts this core memory set, and what type of buss? G116 H224C 32K Core Memory G236 Thanks. -Lawrence LeMay

26 years, 9 months

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TImex SInclair 1000 Manual

by edick＠idcomm.com

While digging through a box of "stuff" I have, I found a Timex Sinclair 1000 manual in used but decent condition and apparently quite complete. Is this something best placed on eBay, or do you some of you guys have use for it? Dick

26 years, 9 months

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PDP 11/05 and PDP 11/45 available.

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

I have two systems that I have finished restoring that I would consider for trade for either an older PDP 8 or some negibus peripherals. Both CPUs are running and very happy. The PDP 11/05 has 16K core memory (2X H214) and has a KW11-P (real time clock) in it.It runs well. I really like 11/05's!!! This unit comes with a copy of the engineering docs, as well as the 11/05 computer manual (theory). The PDP 11/45 (runs, yes... really). I restored this CPU back in '86. I am just moving the PDP 11/45 CPU and console serial port. It comes with one supply and boots RT-11V5 (so it has been well tested) . This CPU is FAST compared to a 34. You have to run your own BA11 memory box... I might be convinced to part with some MOS memory and backplane for the right deal. This PDP 11/45 was really a pain to restore as I had no documents on it and spent the better part of two days scoping the inital problems. I have seen engineering docs go on EBay so finding them is not a problem anymore. Cash is always welcome. If a deal can't be struck then I'll be dropping these beasts on EBay. I am trimming my collection so these two have to go. P.S. I picked up a Nova 2 yesterday with Diablo drives, 6 boxes of documentation, 5 big boxes of paper (RDOS, fortran, algol, basic, etc...), kennedy tape drive, graphics generator, and of course a "Ken-Net" box to network it to a PDP. I think I have every paper tape/document ever made for this system. PDP - 8/S - I picked up the rest of the documents on it including - PC0 tape unit, PT08, floating point, the original "Flip Chip modules manual - rev. 1 , '65" and "Flip Chip Modules Seminar" as put on by DEC in 1965. The system is running everything and is very happy. Reading about how the Flip Chips were made was absolutely amazing.... (many pictures). john

26 years, 9 months

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Urgent Current Loop Question - ASR 33 / PT08

by daniel＠internet.look.ca

That's it Tony, and yes... I'm serious. They connected the ASR-33 across an inverter and shorted it out when the relay transmits. The R107 is RTL (with a real transistor) so it can't damage it. I made the change and...... the PDP 8/s is now running DECUS tic tac toe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I got the docs finally on the PT08 and found a -3V reference supply was in the wrong slot... That would account for the problem I had initially. Otherwise the entire system is now happy. BTW: I also picked up the ASR 33 schematics and the "Teletype Service Manual - ASR 33" as well. Thanks for the help. john -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, October 16, 1999 2:33 PM Subject: Re: Urgent Current Loop Question - ASR 33 / PT08 >> >> Before I attempt to figure this one out I would like to know if anyone else >> can help me. > >I know the ASR33 pretty well, but I've never seen an 8/s. But maybe I can >help. I'm going to assume you have the sort of ASR33 that's normally used >with computers -- that's to say one with a current loop interface. >There's s 3 position knob on the front of the machine (line/off/local) >and no other controls on the 'call control unit' (electronics module). > >> >> I hooked up an ASR-33 (non DEC) to my PDP-8/s. I ran a maindec program and >> the PDP could talk to the teletype no problem, never an error. >> >> After spending 4 1/2 hours cleaning up bad solder joints on the receiver I >> got it up and running.... *kind of* >> >> The problem is this: The ASR-33 is interfaced to the PDP currently by tying >> one receive line to the input of a R107 (transistor inverter) and the other >> receiver line to the output of the same inverter. Then, the signal is >> *conditioned* (inverted) a few times before it is passed onto shift >> registers,,, etc.. > >Are you sure this is right. It sounds crazy to me (and now I'll get a >pile of replies pointing out how DEC were being clever here)... > >The ASR33 transmit loop is electrically a switch. Actually it's a complex >array of switches. but in the end, it either shorts the 2 Tx terminals or >opens them. There is no voltage on either terminal (in a 'stock ASR33') >from the ASR33 electronics. There are no other components involved. > >Connecting a switch between the input and output of an inverter is not >normally a good way to get a clean logic signal ;-) > >The normal circuit (used in all sorts of machines) is to connect one of >the tty Tx wires to one supply rail, possibly through a small resistor >to limit the current in the event of a short somewhere). The other tty Tx >wire to the other supply rail through a (larger) resistor. And then to >monitor the voltage at the 'top' of that resistor, say by connecting it >to the input of a logic gate. > >> >> If I hook up the teletype the WAY the circuit exists now I get a 0-1V data >> signal (notice positive) out of the first inverter which of course is >> totally incompatible with the others and the signal never passes through >> beyond the first inverter. >> >> If I disconnect the FIRST inverter from the second one and LEAVE the one >> receive line in the input of the first inverter ("floating") and hook up the >> SECOND receive line to the input of the now *disconnected* second inverter I >> get data. Most of the time good, but some bad characters get through. >> >> This is obviously not a working current loop solution. >> >> If the teletype is passive should I just connect the receive line on the >> input of the first inverter to ground or -3V??? > >Well, I could understand connecting the tty Tx loop between the input of >one inverter and the output of another one, especially if the input of >the latter was tied to a known logic level (so the output is just a >constant voltage source, etc). This makes an assumption about how >floating inputs behave, which may be OK on transistorised logic like this. > >You are _sure_ that you've connected to the right pins on the R107 >module, and that in fact that's the right module to be using? > >> #1) As I don't have docs nearby on the ASR-33 and have never had a VERY >> simple interface like this CAN I short the one receive line to ground or -3 >> volts???? > >Sure. Just make sure the TTY contacts don't have to carry high currents >(like don't connect the loop across the PSU) unless you like repairing >burnt/melted switches... > >> >> I just want to make sure the ASR 33 does not have any active part that will >> eat my PT08 for breakfast. > >Not that I know of... > >-tony >

26 years, 9 months

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WWII radio reciever

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

Anyone want a WWII navy radio reciever? 70 pounds of iron, tubes, and vernier tuning. Shortwave bands. I'm not shipping it, and i'm getting real serious about tossing it out. SO, you need to be in Minneapolis, or coming by this area reasonably soon. Don't expect it to work, of course. -Lawrence LeMay

26 years, 9 months

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RL02s available

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

In einer eMail vom 16.10.99 20:56:37 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << Gonna try to take a RL02 as carry-on luggage? :-). The above comment was only half-joking - I once took a full 10.5" high PDP-11/44 on an international flight. The power supply (the heavy part!) was removed and carried on, so that the main chassis (now just the steel frame and backplanes) weighed about 45 pounds and could fly without any checked-luggage-over-weight-allowance charges. I was lucky that day - they didn't weigh carry-ons (they often do in Europe now, and I think the limit is 5 or 7.5 kgs!) >> I fly a lot, and my hand luggage _NEVER_ has been weighted. However, I would not try to do that anyway (too lazy for lifting large weights when travelling), but there are many very good freight services in the US, a simple reference to the yellow pages will always allow me to take care of shipping within less than a day. It is simply so very much easier to find things in the US than in Europe, that shipping costs are outweighted by that. If you get together something on the order of at least 500 kg (a pallete full, say) I find that quite reasonable. John G. Zabolitzky

26 years, 9 months

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DEC boards unearthed

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > One of the other interesting items are a M7260/M7251 pair... For the record, the above number is a typo... it should be M7260/M7261 pair. > You need the 11/05 (or 11/10 -- they're the same) backplane and > frontpanel for these. I might have a 5.25" 11/05 box at the back of the pile. I probably pulled the cards to keep them in a better environment. > > Finally, we come to an RK11D board set... > > IIRC 3 of the 4 cards in that box are the same as the ones for the > RK11-D. The bus control is different (I think). Makes sense. > Oh, RK11-Cs are fun to fix (for suitable values of 'fun'). I learnt about > hard disk controllers, Unibus DMA cycles, etc while tracking down a dead > chip in mine. I have an ace up my sleeve - I can test basic M-series modules out of circuit with a chip tester and a harness I built from a test clip and some ribbon cable. I can clamp the test clip on each chip in turn for cards like the M216 or M111 etc. Takes second. I did build a FLIP-CHIP tester for the VIC-20 (the bare boards were available at RatShack), but I never wrote the software. I wanted to make a table-driven thing with graphical display of what faulty chips were found, but I never wrote a meta-language to decribe each signal, in and out, to be able to succinctly list off enough info to test a few dozen types of boards. > Having the printset is _essential_, though! Almost always the case. > I have prints for the RK11-C and RK11-D, and the PDP11/05. I don't think > I have the RKV11-D set anywhere, but it can't be that hard to figure out. Are these available scanned anywhere? Are you looking for any docs that we might be able to swap bits on? I don't relish paying to ship slices of dead trees across the pond. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 9 months

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Quake?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I think our California members should store their more precious old <computers on the east side of the fault line in case the rest of Californi <should someday slide off into the Pacific. Or is that the west side case it becomes an island? ;)

26 years, 9 months

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Quake?

by cfandt＠netsync.net

Upon the date 05:14 PM 10/16/99 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) said something like: >> Or is that the west side case it becomes an island? ;) > >My understanding of the tectonic plate movement is that everything east of >the Hayward/Roger's Creek fault will slide into the Atlantic. Oh thanks Fred :-/ Now I'll have to go out and buy flood insurance :( --Chris (in Western NY State) -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/

26 years, 9 months

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Help with PDP-11/04 Front Panel

by jhfine＠idirect.com

I am supposed to go a look at a very old PDP-11/04 this week and would appreciate some help as to how the front panel is set up. Mainly, I want to be able to look at the program that was loaded using hardware ODT, that is just examine the program and confirm that it is the same as a listing that I will have on a laptop which I will bring along. I don't have to verify all 20 KBytes of the program, just look at it ever 1000 octal bytes to verify that it is the same at about 20 locations. I doubt if this information makes any difference, but I have been told it operates with paper tape, has core memory and an ASR-33 as the console device. Also, the program is stand alone (obviously since it has no disk drives). Mainly, I just want to press the HALT switch or button. Then I want to look at memory via hardware ODT, then restart the system without changing anything at all. Is this possible? I know how to do it on an 11/73. And I used to be able to do in on an 11/34. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine

26 years, 9 months

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DEC boards unearthed

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>After several years of "emergency" storage, I am relocating a large pile of >mostly DEC stuff from a friend's basement. I am finding stuff that I have >been looking for and finding stuff I forgot I had. Hey, I know what that feels like. Closest thing I can remember to Christmas morning as a little kid :-). >One of the other interesting items are a M7260/M7251 pair, one marked >"datapath", one marked "11/05 control". These are clearly the CPU for an >11/05, but will they go into an 11/04 or short (not BA-11) 11/34 chassis >for testing? If I'm not mistaken, the chassis will be OK, but you'll need an 11/05 backplane and front panel. >Finally, we come to an RK11D board set... M7254 through M7257. What else is >needed to make a working controller? A custom backplane? Yep, the backplane you want will have a sticker saying "RK11-D" on it. > Paddle cards? Standard Unibus cable connectors will do fine. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 9 months

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How to reach more classic computer users?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I know myself that I've not found _all_ of the PDP-11 and uVAX resources. >I've noticed some webpages, for example, never come up in any search engine >because the owner hasn't indexed their page properly or at all. I can >search till I'm blue in the face and miss stuff. Absolutely true. I already complained about the freeware archives that I maintain dropping out of several prominent search engines where they used to be prominently mentioned. The pages (and pages referring to these pages) have been submitted to the search engines many times since they disappeared, but have never come back. Here's where I'm sure someone can help me. If anyone could look at, for example, my DECUS freeware index at http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/decus/ and particularly suggest which META tags I might have to add again to make this page (and the pages that it refers to) show up in search engines, I'd greatly appreciate it! Back when these pages were indexed by search engines, they'd get hundreds of search hits a day. But now they never ever turn up, and I don't know why. I mean, the pages still have the same information they always did, and it's not like anyone else has a similar index on the web that replaces this one. Maybe I'm oversimplifying things, but it seemed to me that a couple of years ago the search engines did a very good job of finding a page based on content. For example, if I knew a key phrase that occured somewhere on a page, I could do an Altavista search for that phrase (in quotes) and get a hit every single time. This doesn't seem to work the same way anymore. Is it because search engines no longer index based on content? If they aren't based on content, then what the heck are they based on? And I've also been warned that adding too many META tags will actually cause some search engines to reject a page (or even an entire site) for indexing, as they don't want folks essentially using search engines as a form of Spam. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 9 months

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Quake?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>So where was this quake for us less informed types? > >--Chuck A 7.0 about 30 miles N of Joshua Tree (that is, about 90 miles ENE of downtown LA). See http://www.scec.org/ for more details. According to the folks I know east of LA, the quake felt *much* bigger than the '92 Landers Earthquake which was a 7.3 (and I personally rode out, along with the Northridge quake a few years later.) Lots of stuff thrown off tables and shelves. Supposedly one of the I-40 bridges in Barstow is pretty badly damaged, but still standing. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 9 months

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DEC boards unearthed

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

After several years of "emergency" storage, I am relocating a large pile of mostly DEC stuff from a friend's basement. I am finding stuff that I have been looking for and finding stuff I forgot I had. Today was diskpack and circuit-board day (rack day comes later ;-) The most striking thing I found was a lot of PDP-11 core memory. If anyone is looking for some, I'm willing to trade it for PDP-8 core, something I can put to better use. In addition to several PDP-11/20 4K stacks (H207), there are a couple of H214 stacks and one hex-height 16k set, G235, H217C and G114. I do have driver boards for the 4K stacks, but not all the backplanes (I rescued as much as I could of the contents of an 11/20 from the dumpster at work around 1988, but it just wasn't all in there). I might even still have the CPU box, but it is likely that I don't have a power supply. One of the other interesting items are a M7260/M7251 pair, one marked "datapath", one marked "11/05 control". These are clearly the CPU for an 11/05, but will they go into an 11/04 or short (not BA-11) 11/34 chassis for testing? Finally, we come to an RK11D board set... M7254 through M7257. What else is needed to make a working controller? A custom backplane? Paddle cards? I think I've got an RKV11 box attached to an 11/03 (I haven't pulled it out of the corner yet) If I'm missing too much of it, I can probably fix the RK11C that I got with my first RK05 drives. I've never used it and neither did the people I got it from (they wanted the drives for something else and already had the controller). I would like to back up the several dozen RK packs I moved today, too. I have several options for CPUs and OSes, but I need to identify which RK controllers are going to work before I can see about spinning off RK images. We took some pictures with my friend's digital camera. I'll post a URL when he gets them to me and I get them up on my page. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 9 months

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FS: PDP 11/03, 23 73 (fwd)

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Up Heads: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 12:52:15 -0600 From: Charles Stoyer <cstoyer(a)support.interpex.com> To: Info-PDP11(a)transarc.com Subject: FS: PDP 11/03, 23 73 I have 3 LSI-11's from the very late '70's, early '80's. Basic units have processor and RX02 drive. Accessories include 1 9-track tape drive (1600/800 bpi), RL02 10Mb disk drive (can't get removable disk out), A/D and clock boards. Some spares. Processors include 11/73, 11/23 and maybe 11/03. At last check I think everything was in working order. Also Tektronix 4006 and large Non-DEC wide printer/printing terminal (dot matrix). I can ship UPS ground if items are within limits. Items are in Golden, Colorado, USA (near Denver). No reasonable offer refused. E-mail cstoyer(a)support.interpex.com if interested. Charles -- Charles Stoyer Golden CO ---------- To unsubscribe (or subscribe) from (to) this list, send a message to info-pdp11-request(a)village.org, with the first line of the message body being "unsubscribe" or "subscribe", respectively (without the quotes).

26 years, 9 months

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