- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: > >> >What's the -8/I switch? > I believe I am VERY lucky to have a wife and children that don't mind > co-existing with such hardware (it is in its own room)! I ended up buying a farm with a 30'x50' quonset hut, but for more reasons than just the collection. If all goes well, I'll be breaking ground for a purpose- built edifice for the collection in the spring. > I can answer your question when you tell me: > > What kind of modules are in your DF32 - purple M series with "G", or read > "R" series with "G". No M. R. On all drives, masters and slaves. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 8 months

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expanding PDP-8 memory (was Re: Finally got a "straight" DF32 yesterday)

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 05, 1999 8:17 AM Subject: expanding PDP-8 memory (was Re: Finally got a "straight" DF32 yesterday) >--- John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: >> >--- Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> wrote: >> >> >More Paper tape software... >> >> If the paper tapes have anything PDP 8 on them I can send you a copy. I have >> the PDP-8/S already hooked up to my PC (positive level converters ;-) ) > >Great. > >> One other thing.... you mentioned you wanted to add more memory to one of >> your straight 8s. > >Not quite. I have no interest in adding more memory to the Straight 8s. I >was contemplating either replacing a core stack in an -8/L with battery- >backed CMOS static RAM to free up a core stack for my -8/i, or adding 28K of >CMOS static RAM to the -8/i. This is all to be able to run OS/8. I know >the Disk Monitor will run in 4K. Okay... > >> I have two studies done by the McMaster University on >> building core memory expanders for the 8,8/s using straight 8 memory (8/s,8 >> used the same kinds) and some flip chips. > >Interesting. > Very.. very nice.. makes it easy to ad memory. I also got a copy of the 8K RIM loader and 8K binary loader. >> You might want to kill one of your straight 8s for the memory... > >> A straight-8 still isn't worth as much whole as it is in parts.. Ugh.. > >I'm not completely convinced about that. I might be, but as the "first 8", >there's a certain aura that goes with it. > I do appreciate what you are saying about "aura". Some people like to own the first. I have a population problem and have owned too many "firsts" including univac stuff. But, one the Straight 8 stuff - one sold on ebay this spring, complete untested for $1400 (but in great cosmetic condition) on eBay... they are getting more for Altairs :-(. I am picking up at least one over the next three weeks in MINT condition and I have a friend that wants one bad (I won't part with my 8/s) so I will sell it to him around $1000. The first PDP 8 was made for many years as DEC had problems with memory on the 8I. I have scrapped quite a few 8s (I am sure rack straight 8s as I have found front panel PCBs in my storage for them) over the years as I at the time I did not like 12 bit computers at all. (here is where I know large rocks will be thrown at me - I'm ready.. ;-)) A straight 8 in pieces is worth a lot more. You can sell the front panel on eBay for at least $250. Then, toss the core memory out of it for souvenirs and get an easy $500 - even maybe sell it to someone who needs it. You then could get a few hundred for the chassis (if its table top) from someone on eBay who wants to convert a rack mount unit. Sell the flip chips away or keep them as spares and you are way head of the standard $1400 for an 8. Original documents command good $$ too on eBay. A lot of folks have straight 8s which seems to be keeping the prices down.. it would not surprise me if there was a few hundred in the States alone as there are 8 "mint" running units in Australia! Abundance of a model dictates it's value.. ie: A LINC-8 and a PDP-8/S exists in very low numbers and fetch a lot more $$$. I've been talking to some folks on here about the $$ of old machines to get an idea of what "deep pockets" and collectors value the machines at.. and have found that I still can't get much for a Straight-8... But HEADS-UP - Some of these old ultra-rare minis are commanding some serious $$$. I was offered $12,000 and $15000 (this one wants to make another offer) for my 8/S (running) with docs and software in mint condition. I refused both offers (these were two eBay deep pockets that found me by looking at my "About Me" page.). I don't know what a LINC-8 in mint condition running is worth but probably more.... Another HEADS-UP - Honeywell 316s - Not whole but in parts. One of my 316s was carted to the dump this spring but spares for the machine are fetching big $$$ from those who want to hang up on their wall a piece of "ARPANET". The core memory gets at least $1000 CAD for the set and CPU boards/micropacs are fetching at least $60 US EACH!. Front Panel - no idea but probably a couple hundred. You can't get $4000US for a 316 whole but you can if you kill it. In my defense for such actions I do have/had "population" problems with some mini models.. The IBM 1130 took up the entire first floor of my parents home (it had every accessory), it was scrapped. I had 16 large racks of 316/ARPANET type stuf,Singers, Olivettes, etc... There is only so much one person can handle and "funding" is required for new loads of minis. >> You might want to think about doing that as it is nice to keep the same >> boards/technology in a transistor computer like that. > >I have every interest in keeping the technology "pure". It's the M-series >-8s that I'm considering polluting with modern parts. That's good. I like to keep transistor computers all transistors and tube computers all tubes... > >-ethan > > >===== >Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >Please send all replies to > > erd(a)iname.com >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com >

26 years, 8 months

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New Collector in Need of Help!

by mrdos＠swbell.net

I don't know. Where is/was it? >Do they still have that first Saturday sale each month ? I never got to >there to see it but was told you pay almost any can of computer item made >during the one day sale.

26 years, 8 months

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Finally got a "straight" DF32 yesterday

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: > >What's the -8/I switch? > Depending on the DF32, I have found two transistor versions. One with a > rotary switch on the right side of the front and one without. The switch > allowed you to select "PDP 8, 8/S, 8/I". I don't think I have that switch on my drives. You have schematics? Do you know what that switch affects? -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 8 months

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expanding PDP-8 memory (was Re: Finally got a "straight" DF32 yesterday)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: > >--- Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> wrote: > >> >More Paper tape software... > > If the paper tapes have anything PDP 8 on them I can send you a copy. I have > the PDP-8/S already hooked up to my PC (positive level converters ;-) ) Great. > One other thing.... you mentioned you wanted to add more memory to one of > your straight 8s. Not quite. I have no interest in adding more memory to the Straight 8s. I was contemplating either replacing a core stack in an -8/L with battery- backed CMOS static RAM to free up a core stack for my -8/i, or adding 28K of CMOS static RAM to the -8/i. This is all to be able to run OS/8. I know the Disk Monitor will run in 4K. > I have two studies done by the McMaster University on > building core memory expanders for the 8,8/s using straight 8 memory (8/s,8 > used the same kinds) and some flip chips. Interesting. > You might want to kill one of your straight 8s for the memory... > A straight-8 still isn't worth as much whole as it is in parts.. Ugh.. I'm not completely convinced about that. I might be, but as the "first 8", there's a certain aura that goes with it. > You might want to think about doing that as it is nice to keep the same > boards/technology in a transistor computer like that. I have every interest in keeping the technology "pure". It's the M-series -8s that I'm considering polluting with modern parts. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 8 months

1
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Shipping old heavy stuff

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<gets. Sounds like you did everything that you could to protect it. Do yo <have any other suggestions other than using someone other than UPS? Did <you file a claim with UPS? What were the results? Over the years I've shipped 3 VS3100s, two PC minitowers and an assortment of stuff via UPS. They all arrived as shipped, one peice no scars. Several errors are often made. BUBBLE DOES NOT WORK. Ok why? Most people put one or two layers of the large bubbles around an item and wedge it into a box. At arrives with the corners rounded. Look at any commercial product of similar weight and you find expanded foam or a VERY thick layer of stuff between the item and box. There's a reason for this. You drop a box 30" to concrete and there has to be enough padding to protect it. The other is use of extra cardboard at the corners to reinforce the padding and the external box or better yet wrap it, box it and pad it and box it. I've seen a lot of stuff shipped and if packaged correctly it will survice that 30" drop and then some. Oh, and Fedex will drop boxes too. Allison

26 years, 8 months

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New Collector in Need of Help!

by mrdos＠swbell.net

I live around the Dallas/Fort Worth area. How far I am willing to travel depends on the system. Probably a few hours, say 3 or 4. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 04, 1999 5:16 AM Subject: Re: New Collector in Need of Help! >> I am kind of new to the collecting game. I am in need of some >>help. I need someone to tell me where I can find older and larger >>computers. I have a lot of micros, but now I am looking for bigger game. >>I have decided to focus my collection on older mainframes and >>minicomputers. Can anyone point me to sources? I found a local business >>that has older and larger computers, but the > >To be of any use we would need to know what area you are willing to travel >to to pick up stuff. > >

26 years, 8 months

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Finally got a "straight" DF32 yesterday

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 04, 1999 2:42 PM Subject: Fwd: Finally got a "straight" DF32 yesterday >--- John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: >> Looks like the PDP 8/S will be running a lot more than FOCAL in the near >> future. > >Cool. > >> Yesterday in our snow storm I picked up: >> >> DF32 with docs and "Disk Monitor" paper tapes. This is the first series >> DF32s with the "R" series modules and no "8I switch". > >What's the -8/I switch? I have several DF-32's. All well used and not >necessarily working (I have played with them but never really tried to use >them for storage - the rotation sensor has been verified on at least one >drive, but that's about it). One set came with the straight -8s, another >set came with the -8/I. Depending on the DF32, I have found two transistor versions. One with a rotary switch on the right side of the front and one without. The switch allowed you to select "PDP 8, 8/S, 8/I". I went through the logic today and all looks good. (I am NOT spinning the drive up.....yet). > >If you get this working, I'd love to get a copy of the tapes - I have an -8/I >that may someday have 8K on it (if I sacrifice an -8/L by stealing its core; >I have N machines that use them and (including the second field on the -8/I), >N-2 core stacks) I'm thinking of wiring up some CMOS static RAM on the pins >of an -8/L for its 4K and migrating the core to the -8/I). I could use the >slot between the planes on the core stack for workspace It's unpopulated. > You don't need 8K for DM. It happily works in 4K of space (with FOCAL 1968 [I have two versions of focal - any idea why????]). I am just getting together a list of tapes and boards now to help folks out. I played the dice game today (craps - 5/8-14 ). Pretty cool! >> This unit was wrapped in plastic >> and was used as a spare - it looks like it was used very little. I also got >> a new spare disk for it if I need it. > >You know that the heads crash everytime you power it off, yes? They are the >kind of disks you power up and leave on forever. In the real world, when the >osmium coating wore too thin to record data, DEC FS flipped the disk once >and reformatted. > Yes I do. People have been warning me.... and I have *one* thing to say. I didn't get this far with this transistor computer to let some silly design flaw stop this system from running a disc. I will modify the hardware anyway I can to stop it from crashing (even add some solenoids to pull the heads back if I have to!). I want to keep this system "chip" free... I almost fell over when I saw the "disc file" had no chips too! I will have this system done when it is running only/all transistor peripherals it now has plus the DF32 with DM software and the 32B Oscilloscope interface. >> But... the DF32 needs 13 I/O cables to >> connect to the 8/s. Anyone still selling these kinds of things? > >I do not know *who* would have that sort of thing. I have one set per master >drive. No spares. Sorry. > >> H901 Flip Chip Patch Panels - These are really sweet. You basically plug the >> flip chips in the back and use banana plugs in the front. Also, (I didn't >> know this at the time) hundreds of those "plastic" cards for the front of >> the H901 to make it easy to wire circuits. > >Is this the original DEC logic experimenter's board? There were two produced: >one for DTL, one for TTL. I got a classroom book for the TTL version when I >was in grade school. I did many of the exercises on paper since I didn't have >the hardware to try stuff out on. Yes they are. You can find them in the DEC handbooks. These only support A,B,R,K,W flip chips... sorry no Ms :-) . Only for the transistor stuff! > >> I am building a quick testing station with the H901s with the 8/s so I can >> quickly fix these Flip Chips so I can provide a list on my website for >> anyone who needs one. > >I'd love to see pictures. > I am putting pictures online this weekend and will update everyone here. I installed the H901 panels on the 8/s so I can start some "testing" fun. I have to go out this weekend to buy some banana plug test leads for interconnection. These make it a lot easier to work with flip chips. I think I am going to have our graphic designer make a "No Chips Allowed" gif for the page. >> I will update the webpage over the next few weeks to catalog the parts and >> software I have to help others with their old transistor computers. > >Perhaps in a couple of months, I'll dig down through the pile far enough to >begin to recondition the cleaner of my Straight-8s. The dirty one was >apparently from a newspaper and coated in ink. It has a PA-60 which is, I >think, some kind of typesetter's interface. > Good stuff. I really enjoy restoring transistor systems.... it's made PDP 11s/newer 8s really boring. I am sure you will have as much fun as I have. >> Updates to members here (trying to save bandwidth) >> >> Chuck: I am going to storage this weekend. I will look for the RK8E cables >> for you. I don't need them as I don't like any "IC" PDP-8.. well, maybe an >> 8I. > >You have maybe an extra RK8E that you aren't going to use? All I have for >hard disk on ONMIBUS is RL01/RL8A sets. I've never had any RK stuff for >the -8. I do have this 16-sector RK05F pack (and no 16-sector RK05J packs, >only 12 sectors) that I'd love to read, but we've been over this on the >list before. At this point, I'd probably have to hack one of my RK05J drives >and replace the heads, realign it to match the pack, back it up, etc., etc. >I've always wondered what's on it. I've had it since 1984 and never owned the >gear to read it. > I have 8 RK05 drives. They all run well. I use to add as many of them as I could. I am looking for newer PDP-8 parts for folks here as I use to scrap them up to a couple of months ago. I even found bits of an 8I I butchered 15 years ago... I could never understand how someone could get excited about a 12 bit computer in 1972 when all the big boys were 16 bit or more. If I still have the cables he can have them. Besides, even if I tried to patch an RK05 to the 8/s (with about 400 flip chips) I would be doing it's "chip free" atmosphere a real disservice. john >-ethan > > >===== >Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >Please send all replies to > > erd(a)iname.com >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com >

26 years, 8 months

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Finally got a "straight" DF32 yesterday - bandwidth saver - many messages inside

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> wrote: > >More Paper tape software - A lot of old DECUS stuff for the 8/s (old dice > >game, 5,5/8,8), etc.. Two trays of Disk Monitor and PAL III-D. I STILL NEED > >MANY MORE PAPER TAPE TRAYS! > > I have two trays, blue things with a clear top and 8 sections about 1x1 > inch, 4 or 5 of said sections complete with papertape still in them. $1 & > postage to the first who wants them. Ooh... ooh... I'm interested (if you don't want to ship them to Canada). What's on the paper tape? I'm about to have a serial papertape reader hooked up to my Linux box (DEC PR/S01) as soon as I can borrow my friend's 20mA<->RS-232 adapter. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 8 months

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Some articles on VCF 3.0

by siconic＠jasmine.psyber.com

Here are some articles on VCF 3.0 in case anyone is interested. http://www.mercurycenter.com/svtech/columns/dispatches/docs/mc093099b.htm http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,31638,00.html http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/technology/archive/1999/10/… I apologize for the lack of activity on the VCF website. I'm hoping to have it updated with pictures from the event (including the exhibits) before the end of the year :) Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF East? VCF Europe!? YOU BETCHA!! Stay tuned for more information or contact me to find out how you can participate http://www.vintage.org

26 years, 8 months

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Shipping old heavy stuff

by wsmith＠gj.com

FedEx 3-days service or FedEx freight is more expensive than UPS, but they take much better care of your stuff. I recently shipped my IBM 5100 cross-country by UPS and had bad results. I heavily wrapped the unit in bubble wrap, put it in a 275 lb test large box full of styrofoam popcorn, and then put that box in a larger 275 lb test box full of styrofoam popcorn. It arrived badly banged up, and half the cards had fallen out of the backplane. >>> "George Currie" <g(a)kurico.com> 11/04 12:39 PM >>> What shipping methods do people prefer for shipping larger (say > 100lbs, large deskside, small mini type) systems. If you send it through ups are you just guaranteeing it'll get banged up? What alternative, relatively inexpensive methods are available? George

26 years, 8 months

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11/34 & Cool stuff, but what is it? (Q-bus gear)

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

So I'm trying to collect the stuff I won at a recent auction, the most unexpected deal was the PDP 11/34 for $10 with the DEC Cassette tape transport. Its dirty and grimy but it seems complete. I could satisfy my desire for a Unibus -11 for now (and at a cost I appreciate :-) Anyone have any info on the DEC Cassettes? TU-?? they are standard audio format cassettes and one of the cassetes that came with it claims to have PAL, EDIT, and LINK on it. This will be fun to explore. Then I bid on a rack of "junk" which was topped off by a Kennedy 9610 tape drive. I bid on it because the tape drive had what appearred to be a 50 pin cable going to a Q-bus card marked Emulex. In fact it was _two_ 50 pin cables and the Emulex card is labelled QT1310401-00-REV E. On the firmware the label reads QT1310201-02 REV K. What is it? A search of the web turned up zilch. I was hoping it was a SCSI controller but two connectors? (one is terminated with resistor packs) On board is the obligatory processor and some switches. Anyone know how to configure this? (If nothing else it gives me 9-track capability. Another "jewel" on the rack was a Dilog Q696-20 dual ESDI controller. I'm going to try swapping the RQllD for this one and see if I can get NetBSD to run stably. The MSCP implementation in the RQ has a bug that NetBSD tickles so it makes it hard to debug things. Then what clearly _was_ a SCSI controller was a board from Alphatronix. This thing was connected to a dual cartridge disk unit. It looks from the front like CD-ROM drives with CDs in carriers but until I choose to risk power to it I can't get the media out to inspect it. The box is called an "inspire"? Anyway, the model number is Q/9142 or Q1.50, _any_ help here would be greatly appreciated. Then the other interesting card was a national instruments 179055-01 which has an Intel 8291? on board (date code of either '84 or '91). Sort of a weird 40 pin connector that goes to what looks like the old GPIB connectors. Final question, how do you "de-rack" the 11/34? I can get it to rotate but I can't get it to let go and come out of the rack. I don't want to transport it in the rack so... Its like christmas, --Chuck

26 years, 8 months

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HP 9144A, other stuff

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

I think the caveat is that it needs to be INITIALIZE'd before use. Jeff On Thu, 4 Nov 1999 09:49:48 -0500 (EST) John Ruschmeyer <jruschme(a)hiway1.exit109.com> writes: > > > > John: > > > > Have you actually tried this? > > Back when we were using 9144's, we used to do it all the time. > > > The reason I'm asking is that on the Imation web site, they have a > > > compatibility chart, and the HP 9144 is listed as having 'NONE': > > > > HEWLETT-PACKARD, HP9134A NONE > > HEWLETT-PACKARD, HP9142A, HP9144A/M NONE > > HEWLETT-PACKARD, HP9145A NONE > > > > Although IOTAMAT format tapes are listed elsewhere on the table > at: > > > > http://www2.imation.com/dsp/cmptblty/dc_drv.html > > > > Could it be that Imation is hiding HP's 'dirty little secret'? > > Odd. > > <<<John>>> ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 8 months

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DECStation 5000/240 how to open?

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Ok, so its not classic but it was sitting under the Sun Shoebox I bid on so they made me take it. (And a DECStation 3100 which I thought at first was a VAX but alas, it was a mipper-doodle.) Two questions: 1) How do you open the 5000? I unscrewed the big knurled screw in the back/middle of the case but it is still stuck together like ants on honey. 2) The 3100 is stuffed with RAM, but I'm not sure what kind of RAM. Are the 3100 (and 5000) simms "standard?" (ie could I put them in a PC to get a size number, or better yet is there a number->size translation somewhere?) --Chuck

26 years, 8 months

2
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Update: Schottky diode

by jpero＠cgocable.net

I just threw together that condcuivity tester and diode checker: All are in series: Pair of quick clips (those push-release to hook on something) I saved 2 dollars by cutting pair of clip jumpers and use the halves. 60mA 6V lamp and 6V battery and all that bits. The schottky diode DUT worked one way that lamp lights not else. The resistance ranges on my DMM is lying especially on those schottky diodes. Sheesh! I half-expected to blame bad diodes. What is your comments now that I have new results turned out this time? I have to borrow another DMM to scope out my DMM's resistance ranges, so keep everybody updated. Wizard

26 years, 8 months

2
1
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Mitsubishi MP286L

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 11/4/99 5:53:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, rberryman(a)lucent.com writes: > I saw your question about getting into the set up of the MP286L and have a > similar problem, did you ever get an answer as to how to get into the setup? > I picked up one for $5 at a garage sell and the internal battery is dead so > the setting didn't save. It boots from the floppy and I want to check the > hard drive before I spend any money replacing the CPU battery, any help > would appreciated. > never got an answer, but i did find a generic setup program called gsetup31.exe that let me set the cmos parameters. unfortunately, i think the hard drive is dead in mine. if you cannot locate the program LMK and i will send it to you. DB Young Team OS/2 --> this message printed on recycled disk space view the computers of yesteryear at http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm (now accepting donations!)

26 years, 8 months

1
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Conf-Cookie:941752187-43038-1

by jbmcb＠hotmail.com

Conf-Cookie:941752187-43038-1

26 years, 8 months

3
3
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Shipping old heavy stuff

by Innfogra＠aol.com

UPS Hundredweight is a cheaper way of shipping 100 pound + packages. UPS will also ship up to 150 pounds I believe. Packaging is very important in shipping. There should be little open space. I use large bubble wrap and buy it in bulk at a packaging supply wholesaler. Anything that could be shaken apart should be taken apart and wrapped separately. For heavy items use at least two layers of large bubble wrap. The box is important also. Most boxes have weight ratings, often printed on them. For loads over 100 pounds usually you should use a double weight box with two layers of cardboard. Use good tape. If you have a Federal Express account they will ship pallet weight loads in their economy rates. Contact them. Heavier loads often get strapped to a pallet. I recommend wrapping the item in many layers of cardboard and then use stretch wrap to contain the package, including the top. If the item is on wheels block it up with wood so the load is off the wheels. Use a good strapping machine. The bands need to be tight. Consider support in all three dimensions. In strapping to a pallet consider where the forks go. You don't want the forks of the forklift cutting the straps. Check the business around you. If they do regular freight shipments they might have a significant discount with an LTL shipper. I used to ship with a place that sold bearings. They had a 50% discount. This can make it affordable. If you have several full height cabinets call freight forwarders for partial truck loads. This is sold by a combination of floor space and weight. You may not need to palletize the cabinets. If you have a valuable item it can be shipped in an air ride trailer. I have shipped several older disk drives and some fab equipment by this method. We just rolled it on, they threw a blanket over it and tied it to the wall. This was the easiest for me and the costliest for the buyer. However it got through with no problems. Good luck Paxton PS If you have specific questions about specific equipment contact me off the list.

26 years, 8 months

1
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Conf-Cookie:941752187-43038-1

by KFergason＠aol.com

What, you didn't get the cookie? It was good! hmmm, cookies..... (best homer voice) In a message dated 11/4/99 5:10:23 PM Central Standard Time, healyzh(a)aracnet.com writes: > OK, someone mind explaining what the **** this was about? > > Zane >

26 years, 8 months

1
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Mitsubishi MP286L

by rberryman＠lucent.com

I saw your question about getting into the set up of the MP286L and have a similar problem, did you ever get an answer as to how to get into the setup? I picked up one for $5 at a garage sell and the internal battery is dead so the setting didn't save. It boots from the floppy and I want to check the hard drive before I spend any money replacing the CPU battery, any help would appreciated. Richard N. Berryman RTS III rberryman(a)lucent.com 1111 Freeport Parkway Cube 2E-370-F Coppell, Texas 75019 Direct # (972) 745-5699 Pager # (800) 401-3011 TampaBay Ext # 74558

26 years, 8 months

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Wanted: PDP-11 in Texas

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

I'm in Austin, willing to drive most anywhere in Texas (well, within a 4-5 hour radius, which normally gets me over the Oklahoma border), and looking for a PDP-11. Preferrably something I can rackmount, but I'll consider MicroPDP- based boxes as well. I'd like to purchase the machine, or trade if the other party is interested in either a pair of RS/6000 workstations (POWERserver 530s) or some older Sun VME gear. Thanks! -- Bill Bradford * mrbill(a)mrbill.net / http://www.mrbill.net mrbill(a)sunhelp.org / http://www.sunhelp.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes, because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes." -- Unknown

26 years, 8 months

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Shipping old heavy stuff

by danburrows＠mindspring.com

I made arrangements with a national trucking company. If you get set up with a business account (takes several days) you can get 50+% off the normal tariff rates. Dan -----Original Message----- From: George Currie <g(a)kurico.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 04, 1999 3:46 PM Subject: Shipping old heavy stuff What shipping methods do people prefer for shipping larger (say > 100lbs, large deskside, small mini type) systems. If you send it through ups are you just guaranteeing it'll get banged up? What alternative, relatively inexpensive methods are available? George

26 years, 8 months

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Finally got a "straight" DF32 yesterday - bandwidth saver - many messages inside

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Mark Green <mark(a)cs.ualberta.ca> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 04, 1999 4:23 PM Subject: Re: Finally got a "straight" DF32 yesterday - bandwidth saver - many messages inside >> >> One other thing.... you mentioned you wanted to add more memory to one of >> your straight 8s. I have two studies done by the McMaster University on >> building core memory expanders for the 8,8/s using straight 8 memory (8/s,8 >> used the same kinds) and some flip chips. You might want to kill one of your >> straight 8s for the memory and ebay/keep the rest of it. I am picking up at >> least one straight-8 over the next 3 weeks and if I end up with two (looks >> that way) I have the one sold (have to quickly restore it first) and the >> other I will butcher for memory for my 8/s. A straight-8 still isn't worth >> as much whole as it is in parts.. Ugh.. You might want to think about doing >> that as it is nice to keep the same boards/technology in a transistor >> computer like that. >> > >I remember that particular 8s from when I was an undergraduate. I >did my undergraduate degree at McMaster, at a time when they were >still running PDP 8 machines. That probably ages me :-). At one >point it was a server for a group of DG Novas (I think the >original ones). > I actually bought the Nova network that was there too! I have the Nova 2, Nova 3 with the Nova-PDP 8/S link, Ken-Net and all the original software and docs. The Nova 2 has a graphics interface and IC tester, Kennedy 9800, and a diablo 42. The first memory expansion study was called "8K Interface for PDP-8S with memory protect (A study in frustration)", by John Elton McFee, 1966. BTW I wasn't BORN yet... doesn't that age me! To give you an idea.. Focal 1969 outdates me! john > >-- >Dr. Mark Green mark(a)cs.ualberta.ca >Professor (780) 492-4584 >Director, Research Institute for Multimedia Systems (RIMS) >Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) >University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada >

26 years, 8 months

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Finally got a "straight" DF32 yesterday - bandwidth saver - many messages inside

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 04, 1999 3:04 PM Subject: Re: Finally got a "straight" DF32 yesterday - bandwidth saver - many messages inside > > >--- Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> wrote: >> >More Paper tape software - A lot of old DECUS stuff for the 8/s (old dice >> >game, 5,5/8,8), etc.. Two trays of Disk Monitor and PAL III-D. I STILL NEED >> >MANY MORE PAPER TAPE TRAYS! >> >> I have two trays, blue things with a clear top and 8 sections about 1x1 >> inch, 4 or 5 of said sections complete with papertape still in them. $1 & >> postage to the first who wants them. > >Ooh... ooh... I'm interested (if you don't want to ship them to Canada). >What's on the paper tape? I'm about to have a serial papertape reader >hooked up to my Linux box (DEC PR/S01) as soon as I can borrow my friend's >20mA<->RS-232 adapter. > If the paper tapes have anything PDP 8 on them I can send you a copy. I have the PDP-8/S already hooked up to my PC (positive level converters ;-) ) One other thing.... you mentioned you wanted to add more memory to one of your straight 8s. I have two studies done by the McMaster University on building core memory expanders for the 8,8/s using straight 8 memory (8/s,8 used the same kinds) and some flip chips. You might want to kill one of your straight 8s for the memory and ebay/keep the rest of it. I am picking up at least one straight-8 over the next 3 weeks and if I end up with two (looks that way) I have the one sold (have to quickly restore it first) and the other I will butcher for memory for my 8/s. A straight-8 still isn't worth as much whole as it is in parts.. Ugh.. You might want to think about doing that as it is nice to keep the same boards/technology in a transistor computer like that. john john >-ethan > > >===== >Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >Please send all replies to > > erd(a)iname.com >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com >

26 years, 8 months

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Fwd: Finally got a "straight" DF32 yesterday

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: > Looks like the PDP 8/S will be running a lot more than FOCAL in the near > future. Cool. > Yesterday in our snow storm I picked up: > > DF32 with docs and "Disk Monitor" paper tapes. This is the first series > DF32s with the "R" series modules and no "8I switch". What's the -8/I switch? I have several DF-32's. All well used and not necessarily working (I have played with them but never really tried to use them for storage - the rotation sensor has been verified on at least one drive, but that's about it). One set came with the straight -8s, another set came with the -8/I. If you get this working, I'd love to get a copy of the tapes - I have an -8/I that may someday have 8K on it (if I sacrifice an -8/L by stealing its core; I have N machines that use them and (including the second field on the -8/I), N-2 core stacks) I'm thinking of wiring up some CMOS static RAM on the pins of an -8/L for its 4K and migrating the core to the -8/I). I could use the slot between the planes on the core stack for workspace It's unpopulated. > This unit was wrapped in plastic > and was used as a spare - it looks like it was used very little. I also got > a new spare disk for it if I need it. You know that the heads crash everytime you power it off, yes? They are the kind of disks you power up and leave on forever. In the real world, when the osmium coating wore too thin to record data, DEC FS flipped the disk once and reformatted. > But... the DF32 needs 13 I/O cables to > connect to the 8/s. Anyone still selling these kinds of things? I do not know *who* would have that sort of thing. I have one set per master drive. No spares. Sorry. > H901 Flip Chip Patch Panels - These are really sweet. You basically plug the > flip chips in the back and use banana plugs in the front. Also, (I didn't > know this at the time) hundreds of those "plastic" cards for the front of > the H901 to make it easy to wire circuits. Is this the original DEC logic experimenter's board? There were two produced: one for DTL, one for TTL. I got a classroom book for the TTL version when I was in grade school. I did many of the exercises on paper since I didn't have the hardware to try stuff out on. > I am building a quick testing station with the H901s with the 8/s so I can > quickly fix these Flip Chips so I can provide a list on my website for > anyone who needs one. I'd love to see pictures. > I will update the webpage over the next few weeks to catalog the parts and > software I have to help others with their old transistor computers. Perhaps in a couple of months, I'll dig down through the pile far enough to begin to recondition the cleaner of my Straight-8s. The dirty one was apparently from a newspaper and coated in ink. It has a PA-60 which is, I think, some kind of typesetter's interface. > Updates to members here (trying to save bandwidth) > > Chuck: I am going to storage this weekend. I will look for the RK8E cables > for you. I don't need them as I don't like any "IC" PDP-8.. well, maybe an > 8I. You have maybe an extra RK8E that you aren't going to use? All I have for hard disk on ONMIBUS is RL01/RL8A sets. I've never had any RK stuff for the -8. I do have this 16-sector RK05F pack (and no 16-sector RK05J packs, only 12 sectors) that I'd love to read, but we've been over this on the list before. At this point, I'd probably have to hack one of my RK05J drives and replace the heads, realign it to match the pack, back it up, etc., etc. I've always wondered what's on it. I've had it since 1984 and never owned the gear to read it. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 8 months

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New to the list & other Stuff....

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

On Thursday, November 04, 1999 12:23 AM, Benjamin Gardiner [SMTP:cvisors@CarnageVisors.net] wrote: > Hi all, > I have been lurking on this list for the last few days, and I thought I > will introduce myself... > Well I'm 25 or so ,living in australia, and I have aquired a number of > DEC MicroVAX IIs. > one of which is missing enough cards to render it useless...(oh well > such is life.. > I am slowly trying to get at least one of these machines working, and I > hope to have one of them working soon. What I was wondering, is I have a > lot of cards for these machines, and was wondering if anyone would be > able to help me identify them and tell me what would be the best way to > order them in the Q-bus, and help me with setting the adresses on the > cards which nees such settings. > I realy want to get one of these old beasts going, and hopefully get > netBSD running on them. > > Thanks > Benjamin Gardiner Hi Benamin, Well you've found the right place for info on these machines. I don't collect VAXs but, many of the list members do. I think you'll find everyone most cooperative in sharing their knowledge of these things. If you have any specific questions, just ask... Later, Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 8 months

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Basic 4 tape drive?

by edick＠idcomm.com

The only thing that is in any way familiar about this is the Cipher name. Cipher Data Products was a supplier of 9-track tape drives for most of the time during which 9-track drives were relevant. For example, I've got an S-100 board set and a controller formatter which comes from Cipher. The board set I have seems to be a Pertec-type interface adapter, though, i.e. it uses the same pair of 50-conductor cables. Is that what you have on this tape drive? Is it a 9-track type? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Charles E. Fox <foxvideo(a)wincom.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 04, 1999 10:00 AM Subject: Basic 4 tape drive? > > > I was just bequeathed a batch of Basic 4 bits, terminals, etc. and the >only thing that looks interesting is some sort of tape drive with the >following identification: > > MAI Basic 4 Information Systems > Model 4402 > > and > > Cypher F880640-90-1025U > > Can anyone tell me what this thing is? > > Regards > > Charlie Fox > > > Charles E. Fox > Chas E. Fox Video Productions > 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada > email foxvideo(a)wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo >

26 years, 8 months

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Basic 4 tape drive?

by foxvideo＠wincom.net

I was just bequeathed a batch of Basic 4 bits, terminals, etc. and the only thing that looks interesting is some sort of tape drive with the following identification: MAI Basic 4 Information Systems Model 4402 and Cypher F880640-90-1025U Can anyone tell me what this thing is? Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo(a)wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo

26 years, 8 months

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HP 9144A, other stuff

by fmc＠reanimators.org

John Ruschmeyer <jruschme(a)hiway1.exit109.com> wrote: > I don't recall seeing 3rd-party 9145 tapes (32-track), but for the 9144 > you want 3M DC600 IOTAMAT-format. 3M used to sell the 15MB/150-foot 9144-compatible flavor as the DC615HC. A former employer tried to get me to use those once, which is how I found this out. After trying one for a while, I declined. Here's why: There are two or three layers of "formatting" on these. The 3M tapes had the lowest layer, the one that must be done at the factory because it requires the full-width head that can write block delimiters. The HP tapes have the next layer as well, the data that is read by the tape drive and which contains usage and block sparing information. If you have an HP3000 w/9144 the VINIT FORMAT command will write this, but in my experiments at the former employer I found it took noticeably longer to format the 3M tapes (perhaps it was testing the tape blocks to figure out which blocks need sparing? I don't know). I didn't think it was worth the couple of bucks we would save per tape for someone to sit on his or her butt waiting for this to happen. But once you do this they do work. And I have no idea how to do this step with a 9000. The third layer? Well, on a 3000 you access the 9144 as though it is a removable-pack disc drive. Fortunately the 3000 has the concept of accessing a disc serially: you use the VINIT SERIAL command to label the "disc" (actually the tape) as a serial volume. I don't think this applies to 9000s but I think for the 9000s you are supposed to pipe tape data through tcio (which buffers the tape drive I/O in a way that reduces wear and tear on the drive and tape). -Frank McConnell

26 years, 8 months

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HP 9144A, other stuff

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

John: Have you actually tried this? The reason I'm asking is that on the Imation web site, they have a compatibility chart, and the HP 9144 is listed as having 'NONE': HEWLETT-PACKARD, HP9134A NONE HEWLETT-PACKARD, HP9142A, HP9144A/M NONE HEWLETT-PACKARD, HP9145A NONE Although IOTAMAT format tapes are listed elsewhere on the table at: http://www2.imation.com/dsp/cmptblty/dc_drv.html Could it be that Imation is hiding HP's 'dirty little secret'? Jeff On Thu, 4 Nov 1999 09:09:20 -0500 (EST) John Ruschmeyer <jruschme(a)hiway1.exit109.com> writes: > > I don't recall seeing 3rd-party 9145 tapes (32-track), but for the > 9144 > you want 3M DC600 IOTAMAT-format. > > <<<John>>> ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 8 months

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HP 9144A, other stuff

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Steve: You have a working hp-9000? What model? What OS are you using? If it's a 68020 or higher, I *really* want to talk to you! Jeff On Thu, 4 Nov 1999 09:25:08 -0500 Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> writes: > I recently pickup up a 9144 and it works great with my HP9000. I've > also got a couple of boxes of new tapes and might be willing to part with > a few if someone REALLY needs them (Joe?). > > Later, > > Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 8 months

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OT: TANSTAAFL (was: VMS architects)

by mtapley＠swri.edu

Megan wrote: >Sorry... the Nivenisms are: > > TANJ - "There Ain't No Justice" > TANSTAAFL - "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch" I haven't got my copy around, but I'm pretty sure TANSTAAFL appeared prominently in "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" by Robert Heinlein. Maybe 1969? Anybody got a copy? It may have appeared in a Niven reference earlier, I don't know. - Mark

26 years, 8 months

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HP 9144A, other stuff

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

On Thursday, November 04, 1999 4:21 AM, Joe [SMTP:rigdonj@intellistar.net] wrote: > Mike, > > At 12:29 AM 11/4/99 -0800, you wrote: > >A HP 9144A tape thing is sitting at one of the salvage places I go by. > >There is a tape in it, but thats about all I can tell. Location is southern > >Orange county. > > The 9144 is a tape backup. It's HP-IB and can be used EXACTLY like a > HP-IB disk drive. You can even boot from it but it's S-L-O-W and HP doesn't > advise it except in case of emergency. It's capacity depends on which tape > you use in it. The "S" tape has a capacity of 15 Mb and the "L" tape has a > capacity of about 65 Mb. The 9144s are common but the tapes are sort of > hard to come by. I could use the tape if you can get it without any > trouble. The 9144 uses a 16 track tape. The 9145 is similar but uses a 32 > track tape. BTW the 9144 and 9145 both use preformatted tapes. You MUST > use preformatted HP tapes in them. The 9145 can read but not write 9144 > tapes, I have neve been able to find 9145 tapes. > > Joe > > I recently pickup up a 9144 and it works great with my HP9000. I've also got a couple of boxes of new tapes and might be willing to part with a few if someone REALLY needs them (Joe?). Later, Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 8 months

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New Collector in Need of Help!

by mrdos＠swbell.net

I am kind of new to the collecting game. I am in need of some help. I need someone to tell me where I can find older and larger computers. I have a lot of micros, but now I am looking for bigger game. I have decided to focus my collection on older mainframes and minicomputers. Can anyone point me to sources? I found a local business that has older and larger computers, but the owner and I didn't hit it off. It's really a shame. He had some great stuff. While I was there I had to watch the workers scrap what looked like a very old classic control panel. Also, someone recently offered me a UNIVAC System 80. Anyone know anything about it? Is it something worth having in a collection?

26 years, 8 months

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Finally got a "straight" DF32 yesterday - bandwidth saver - many messages inside

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

Looks like the PDP 8/S will be running a lot more than FOCAL in the near future. Yesterday in our snow storm I picked up: DF32 with docs and "Disk Monitor" paper tapes. This is the first series DF32s with the "R" series modules and no "8I switch". This DF32 has all the interface hardware to connect to the 8/S. This unit was wrapped in plastic and was used as a spare - it looks like it was used very little. I also got a new spare disk for it if I need it. But... the DF32 needs 13 I/O cables to connect to the 8/s. Anyone still selling these kinds of things? 500+ flip chip spares - mostly R (mostly the #s used in the CPU of 8,8/S) and a bunch of A,B,K,W,Z.. no Ms :-) If anyone is looking for any kind of transistor Flip Chip I am sure I can help. I have over 800+ spares now for this system. Hundreds of Flip Chip Test Specs/Schematics - every possible module I have seen. H901 Flip Chip Patch Panels - These are really sweet. You basically plug the flip chips in the back and use banana plugs in the front. Also, (I didn't know this at the time) hundreds of those "plastic" cards for the front of the H901 to make it easy to wire circuits. More Paper tape software - A lot of old DECUS stuff for the 8/s (old dice game, 5,5/8,8), etc.. Two trays of Disk Monitor and PAL III-D. I STILL NEED MANY MORE PAPER TAPE TRAYS! A half dozen more PDP 8/S software manuals. A data General Nova 3 with 2 40 series drives, paper tape high speed reader, and more docs, disks. Another teletype by Leigh (ASR-33)... This one is nice as it has seen almost no use.. Also, 2 more sets of schematics and serice manuals for this teletype. A couple of weeks ago I picked up another PDP 11/34 with 2 RL02s... Next month I will be getting at least one Straight-8, a bunch of Honeywell 316 systems.. I am still waiting to find out which mystery IBM system I am picking in in the near future (was purchased before '68). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Questions: Is there a company that still sells I/O negibus cables? Has anyone here worked with Disk Monitor? Any special tricks to setting it up or using it? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- Notes: I am building a quick testing station with the H901s with the 8/s so I can quickly fix these Flip Chips so I can provide a list on my website for anyone who needs one. I got a dedicated internet line now so I will have the 8/S connected to telnet soon. I am hoping to have the drive up and running in a few days so interested people can connect to the 8/s or a Nova. If I can get a good 220V->110V transformer then I can run a couple of PDP 11 systems too. I will update the webpage over the next few weeks to catalog the parts and software I have to help others with their old transistor computers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- Updates to members here (trying to save bandwidth) I am just starting to move my personal collection from storage and have found many versions of complete sets of documentation for RT11, RSX-11M/PLUS, and RSTS/E - ver 7.0,9.0, etc..) also many original distribution sets for many of the above PDP 11 O/Ss. As I am trimming my collection of minis pre '73 (unless they are REALLY something) and many 11s. I am not going to waste anyones time waiting for "will trade for" or anything like that... reasonable $$ will take it. Kevin: Will get back to you on the 11/45,TS03 this week. Chuck: I am going to storage this weekend. I will look for the RK8E cables for you. I don't need them as I don't like any "IC" PDP-8.. well, maybe an 8I. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------- Enjoy! john Enjoy...

26 years, 8 months

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Nx 586

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

Hans Franke wrote: >> >Not classic I know, but maybe more obsolete than some 10 year old computers >> >perhaps? > >> Now this comment I like!!! It sums up my feelings about the collectibility >> of x86 based systems designed to run Microsoftian OS's. > >Well, the NextGen is (was) a quite remarkable step. And for >PCs, I'm already starting to aquire some early Pentiums. >Dual P60 server systems _are_ already vanishing. > Well I've put aside some P60's with the floating point bug at least. >Anyway, what kind of Nx586 boards are offered ? > Don't know yet, I'm still negotiating price. They're in Australia. Hans Olminkhof

26 years, 8 months

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New to the list & other Stuff....

by cvisors＠CarnageVisors.net

Hi all, I have been lurking on this list for the last few days, and I thought I will introduce myself... Well I'm 25 or so ,living in australia, and I have aquired a number of DEC MicroVAX IIs. one of which is missing enough cards to render it useless...(oh well such is life.. I am slowly trying to get at least one of these machines working, and I hope to have one of them working soon. What I was wondering, is I have a lot of cards for these machines, and was wondering if anyone would be able to help me identify them and tell me what would be the best way to order them in the Q-bus, and help me with setting the adresses on the cards which nees such settings. I realy want to get one of these old beasts going, and hopefully get netBSD running on them. Thanks Benjamin Gardiner

26 years, 8 months

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11/34 & Cool stuff, but what is it? (Q-bus gear)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> >Then the other interesting card was a national instruments 179055-01 which >> >has an Intel 8291? on board (date code of either '84 or '91). Sort of a >> >weird 40 pin connector that goes to what looks like the old GPIB connectors. >> >> Yep, it's a IEEE-496 interface. >A what? Is this some varient of IEEE-488, or something totally different? Whoops, wrong IEEE number there :-). I meant IEEE-488, as you figured out. I believe that the confusion was caused by IEEE-696, aka "S-100"... -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 8 months

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11/34 & Cool stuff, but what is it? (Q-bus gear)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>So I'm trying to collect the stuff I won at a recent auction, the most >unexpected deal was the PDP 11/34 for $10 with the DEC Cassette tape >transport. Its dirty and grimy but it seems complete. I could satisfy my >desire for a Unibus -11 for now (and at a cost I appreciate :-) > >Anyone have any info on the DEC Cassettes? TU-?? TU-60. > they are standard audio >format cassettes and one of the cassetes that came with it claims to have >PAL, EDIT, and LINK on it. This will be fun to explore. Sounds like the standard cassette tape development tools. >Then I bid on a rack of "junk" which was topped off by a Kennedy 9610 tape >drive. I bid on it because the tape drive had what appearred to be a 50 pin >cable going to a Q-bus card marked Emulex. In fact it was _two_ 50 pin >cables and the Emulex card is labelled QT1310401-00-REV E. On the firmware >the label reads QT1310201-02 REV K. What is it? The QT13 emulates either a MS: (TS11) or MU: (TMSCP) type drive and talks to tape drives with the Pertec-formatted formatted interface. > I was hoping it was a SCSI controller but two connectors? Not SCSI, it's Pertec formatted. >Then the other interesting card was a national instruments 179055-01 which >has an Intel 8291? on board (date code of either '84 or '91). Sort of a >weird 40 pin connector that goes to what looks like the old GPIB connectors. Yep, it's a IEEE-496 interface. >Final question, how do you "de-rack" the 11/34? I can get it to rotate but >I can't get it to let go and come out of the rack. I don't want to >transport it in the rack so... There were several different styles of chassis-mount slides on the 11/34 series. Are your slides shiny metal or are they grey? If they're shiny metal, look for one shiny wobbly lever on each side that has to be pressed in to release the catch. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 8 months

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Schottky diode Question.

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well . . . MY DMM doesn't read the DIODE the same in both directions. If it reads the same when the DMM is in DIODE TEST mode (the only one which is really meaningful) it should read the voltage across the diode. If it's the same in both directions, AND NO OTHER CONNECTED Devices are present, it's not a diode. In your case that probably means that it's broken. If you're measuring it in situ, the other components in the circuit are probably playing a role. I don't have the data book on that diode here, so I'm guessing it's a rectifier, and therefore has a forward voltage on the order 0.275 volts. (SCHOTTKY diodes are preferable for rectifiers in portable devices because they (1) require less voltage overhead, and (2) don't generate as much heat. Be sure you know what you're measuring! I've never had a battery on my notebooks go bad, so I don't know how they behave when they do that, but I've seen some sensor circuits used in turning the system on which don't work when the battery is in "deep discharge" as it might be if it was left on and became "empty" enough that the charge circuit sees it as a short and defends itself by shutting down. Try an external charger for the battery. If that doesn't charge the battery, then charge up a 7500 microfarad capacitor to about 75 volts and discharge it through the battery, observing correct polarity. That may blow out any cilia which may be causing a cell to behave as though it's collapsed. good luck! Dick -----Original Message----- From: jpero(a)cgocable.net <jpero(a)cgocable.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 4:28 PM Subject: Schottky diode Question. > It might work better if you use an unused gate or some such. Phantom often > has numerous loads on it, so you could consider a pair of OC gates if > they're available. Otherwise, a SCHOTTKY diode should suffice, since its > forward voltage isn't enough to confuse any other device into missing the > LOW on the PHANTOM line. I have measured resistance both ways, it becomes less of a diode as I go higher in resistance scale on my DMM, around 20K and up I read like a piece of 100 ohm resistor both ways but reads fine on diode mode. BTW: these are 1N5822. I'm working on a bondwell 486NC2 notebook seems to have power problem. Even with batteries unplugged, charge LED lights up same time as power lights up when I plug power brick in. Sometimes I can get hint of action and just once got computer to boot up for few seconds then dies. What gives? Wizard

26 years, 8 months

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schottky diode again..

by edick＠idcomm.com

Its not a bad idea to test a diode at the current for which it was designed. If you want to do that, it won't be a waste of your effort. However, I would guess it's time not well spent to continue fiddling with the diode you've apparently shown has too much reverse leakage to be of use. I'm persuaded (perhaps incorrectly) that your diode is from a rectifier or switching circuit associated with the battery charging/power conversion process. If it is, then it's probably a rectifier and not a signal diode. You can probably replace it for less than a dollar and get several spares in the same operation. Dick -----Original Message----- From: jpero(a)cgocable.net <jpero(a)cgocable.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 5:48 PM Subject: Re: schottky diode again.. > Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 00:10:57 +0000 (GMT) > Reply-to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: schottky diode again.. > Have you tried reading the 'manuals' for most modern meters (or other > test gear)? They're useless for actually telling you what the instrument > is doing. At one time, such manuals contained schematics, simplified > schematics, circuit descriptions, etc. Not any more :-( Tony as usual is right. I don't read those modern manuals these days. Except skimming for few areas just to be sure. > > Surely the sort of person who buys a multimeter is also the sort of > person who can read/understand a schematic. So the lack of such > information is something of a puzzle to me. That DMM is built by me in kit form and calibrated it for voltage and current. Good as any normal DMM should do. Same with ESR. no calibrating required. Zeroes when shorting and press the button twice. One push turns on ESR, when on and probes is showing low resistance or shorted together and pressed button again zeroes it to account for losses in internal circuits and probe wires. That ESR meter has real docs because it's kit and info that explains why can most of time can measure caps in circuit. Came from Dick Electronics (Aus) for about 40 US. The pot is only there to preset for voltage cut off to warn of low battery condition. > > For this reason, I _always_ test every feature of a new piece of test > gear, often in unconventional ways. I _will_ check diodes on resistance > ranges to see what happens. Often the lower resistance ranges _do_ > provide enough current to provide a useful test on diodes, and the > ability to do the check at more than one current sometimes picks up > 'rogue' diodes. Correct as I suspected by playing. My DMM actually shows better when I move from low res scales to mid to high ranges. I need to grab another meter to see what it do on my dmm. :-) Tony inpsired me to this! > > -tony > Wizard

26 years, 8 months

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schottky diode again..

by edick＠idcomm.com

If you have a diode of any kind which behaves more as a resistor and less as a diode, i.e. it measures more or less the same in both directions, though differently on different settings on your DMM, I'd say it's broken. The reason for all the discussion about batteries is that a set of batteries for a typical notebook costs only a bit less than $200 for a cheap one, and it's useful to know whether the notebook works before buying a new battery pack. Most of them don't work with no battery at all, though some do. If there's something wrong with your diode and the diode is in the charging circuit, with behavior like you've described, it will discharge your battery and subsequently into deep discharge, which will permanently and irrevocably damage NiCd and NiMH batteries. A schottky diode is simply a diode. It has doping different from a typical silicon diode, hence has a lower forward voltage, hence dissipates less power than a silicon diode at the same current. If it has measurable resistance cathode to anode and anode to cathode which is about the same, it's no longer acting as a diode. Dick -----Original Message----- From: jpero(a)cgocable.net <jpero(a)cgocable.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 3:30 PM Subject: schottky diode again.. Sheesh, that topic wandered off the diode discussion! Snip! The important thing I wanted to hear about is how schottky diodes reacts if good and what it's like when bad or sick on a DMM with different resistance scale settings used, diode test also seems says "good" but I know it's very low current also low voltage so that would usually not screen out sick diodes. That why I used resistance ranges just to be sure. Yes, I pull diodes and transistors out for checks to be sure. Ingore the battery thing please. I'm more concerned getting the notebook going. Thanks. Wizard

26 years, 8 months

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Alphatronix == Viking

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

Darn if Dan the Man didn't win the prize on this one. The Alphatronix board is a re-badged Viking SCSI board with some of their own firmware. Now to see if I can change its notion of identity.... --Chuck

26 years, 8 months

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schottky diode again..

by sms＠antinode.org

> From: "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> > > If you have a diode of any kind which behaves more as a resistor and less as > a diode, i.e. it measures more or less the same in both directions, though > differently on different settings on your DMM, I'd say it's broken. I'd say you have a modern meter, and neither of you knows how to use it. The "diode" range on the meter is there because the other resistance ranges are not useful for testing diodes. Read the manual for the meter, or buy a curve tracer, or build a continuity tester from an old flashlight (two-cell preferred), or ... I'm curious. Have you tried the same family of (mostly misleading) tests on a known-good, plain-old silicon diode? > > From: jpero(a)cgocable.net <jpero(a)cgocable.net> > > ... > > says "good" but I know it's very low current also low voltage so that > > would usually not screen out sick diodes. The current and voltage for the resistance ranges are probably much lower, which is why the readings are so useless. (Repeat previous rant here.) > That why I used resistance ranges just to be sure. This must be some new meaning of "sure". There are some subtle defects possible in a diode which will not be revealed by the "diode" test on a multimeter, but that's almost certainly the best test offered by the meter. > Wizard Apparently a misnomer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda (+1) 651-645-9249 (voice, home) 1630 Marshall Avenue #8 (+1) 612-754-2636 (voice, work) Saint Paul MN 55104-6225 (+1) 612-754-6302 (facsimile, work) sms(a)antinode.org sms(a)provis.com (work)

26 years, 8 months

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Items Added to Classic Computer Sale

by bill_r＠inetnebr.com

Today a number of additional items were added to my on-line sale, including a Tandy 1000, a Tandy 2000, Tallgrass hard drive, Tektronix scope, Beehive MicroB1 video terminal, and a Hazeltine 1000 terminal. Check it out at: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r/computer-sale.htm -Bill Richman (bill_r(a)inetnebr.com) http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r - Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities.

26 years, 8 months

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Victor series 1400 CRT tube display calculator

by bill_r＠inetnebr.com

I'm trying to restore a Victor series 1400 CRT tube display calculator, and wondered if anyone had any information about them. It's got a 3" or so green CRT display with masks for the numbers, and a big board full of mostly unmarked chips. It used to work fine, but one day it quit, and I have no clue why. It's just totally dead. Have checked the fuse, caps, etc. A schematic would be wonderful. -Bill Richman (bill_r(a)inetnebr.com) http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r - Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities.

26 years, 8 months

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schottky diode again..

by edick＠idcomm.com

SInce I sometimes take testing fairly seriously, I have several meters with several slightly different diode testing modes. I've found none which indicate a bad diode is good, nor do any of them indicate a good diode is bad. One of my testers is something I built for matching diodes, and and transistors, and it runs a pretty constant 1.26 or 12.6 ma (from an LED biasing a 2N3904) through a diode, and a panel meter displays the forward voltage. Not one of my meters exhibits behavior as described by "Wizard" however. I can't imagine what the problem is, but I agree that digital meters can produce unpredictable results when used in a way not intended by the designers. Generally speaking, the DMM is a Digital Panel Meter with a fixed reference voltage built into it, looking a the output of an analog or even mechanical switch, the purpose of which is to run the appropriate current through/into the component under test to generate a voltage scaled to display a value reflecting the value of the component under test. In the case of diode test, that's really easy, since it's a current within a fairly forgiving range, and which will, with most any diode produce a voltage reflecting what that particular diode drops at that current. Almost all measurements can easily be done in this way. Voltage is easiest, of course. Dick -----Original Message----- From: sms(a)antinode.org <sms(a)antinode.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 4:40 PM Subject: Re: schottky diode again.. >> From: "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> >> >> If you have a diode of any kind which behaves more as a resistor and less as >> a diode, i.e. it measures more or less the same in both directions, though >> differently on different settings on your DMM, I'd say it's broken. > > I'd say you have a modern meter, and neither of you knows how to use >it. The "diode" range on the meter is there because the other >resistance ranges are not useful for testing diodes. Read the manual >for the meter, or buy a curve tracer, or build a continuity tester from >an old flashlight (two-cell preferred), or ... > > I'm curious. Have you tried the same family of (mostly misleading) >tests on a known-good, plain-old silicon diode? > >> > From: jpero(a)cgocable.net <jpero(a)cgocable.net> >> > ... >> > says "good" but I know it's very low current also low voltage so that >> > would usually not screen out sick diodes. > > The current and voltage for the resistance ranges are probably much >lower, which is why the readings are so useless. (Repeat previous rant >here.) > >> That why I used resistance ranges just to be sure. > > This must be some new meaning of "sure". > > There are some subtle defects possible in a diode which will not be >revealed by the "diode" test on a multimeter, but that's almost >certainly the best test offered by the meter. > >> Wizard > > Apparently a misnomer. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Steven M. Schweda (+1) 651-645-9249 (voice, home) > 1630 Marshall Avenue #8 (+1) 612-754-2636 (voice, work) > Saint Paul MN 55104-6225 (+1) 612-754-6302 (facsimile, work) > sms(a)antinode.org sms(a)provis.com (work)

26 years, 8 months

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Gridpads on epay

by Innfogra＠aol.com

I noticed a couple of Gridpads on epay that are closing in 6 hours. Current price is $31 and it hasn't changed in over 24 hrs. Item number 187950991 Paxton

26 years, 8 months

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VMS architects

by mbg＠world.std.com

>> Sorry... the Nivenisms are: >> >> TANSTAAFL - "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch" >> >> Megan Gentry >> Former RT-11 Developer > >Sorry, That one's Robert A. Heinlein. Yep, sorry about that... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 8 months

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Help: Identify DEC/Dilog Modules

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Hi Groups: I have some DEC modules that aren't in the latest Field Guide (thanks to Tim Shoppa for bringing this up to date). The identifiers are: M7684 M7773 M7774 M7776 M7786 M7787 I also have two questions: 1. I have a M7133 Unibus 11/24 CPU. As it's a single card CPU, does it still need a custom backplane, or is this a leter model CPU that can fit in a standard SU or something like that? 2. I have two Dilog controllers, the DQ236 and the DQ256. The Q for Dilog generally indicates Q bus. These have 1 x 60 pin header and 4 x 26 pin headers on them. Disk controllers? What type of drives? Any info appreciated, Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca

26 years, 8 months

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