I've found a box with 2 x 8" floppy drives. . . . external to some unknown
computer.
The box is a Panasonic JB3038P and inside are 2 X JA751 drives.
The drive connectors and the cable coming out of the box are all 50 pin,
exactly like an internal SCSI cable. Unfortunately it isn't recognised by a
SCSI controller, at least not without fiddling with parity and stuff like
that.
Does anyone know what this might have been for?
SCSI 8" floppy drives would have been great cos I don't think I'm ever going
to find a compaticard !
Hans
Hi,
Someone a while back was going to check out the PS pinout for an HP
Windows Client 425SX, but I lost the original message to remember who...
Does anyone have it handy? The scratched sticker on the back looks like it
says 20V~, but it's pretty scratched. The connector is 4 prongs in a
row...
Thanks,
Aaron
Yesterday was a pretty good day for me, as I found some of the following:
1. Tomy robot at thrift for $2.80 need some work but could not pass on it, too low a price.
2. Mics Grid items.
3. Nice Apple Mac items most not 10 years old yet.
4. 12 AMIGA software packages NEW and Unopened for the 500/1000/2000 series.
5. Various cards for the Apple II, IIplus, and IIe with some manuals.
6. About 30+ books from Apples to Next machines.
7. A Travel Data Systems 28 computer complete and new in box for $2.50 at thrift.
8. Koala pad for Apple II. IIplus, IIe
9. Something TG Products in Planto TX has mounting for 6 chips each with it's own switch ?????
And many more items not yet 10 years old. Keep on Computing John
Well, with the aid of the "PDP-8/e Simulator" for the Mac, I figured out
how to use the front panel, and execute the "Initial Operating Check".
Load it into the real PDP-8/m, and start it. Wait a minute, that's not
what it's supposed to be doing...
After a bunch of investigating, and going back to the "PDP-8/e Simulator"
to figure out how to display the contents of memory, I discover that there
is nothing in memory :^(
Based on the fact I can see what I'm trying to enter when I've got the
switch set to 'MD' and hit Deposit, it sounds to me, suspiciously like I've
got a bad 4K Core set.
Anyone have any suggestions on something to check?
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
Sorry to keep deluging the list with modernish freebies, but I figured
there might be a few list people interested...
Does anyone want a 486SX/33 base in a small box? It's actually the
bottom half of an HP Scanjet 4si (so, same form factor as an HP IIP
scanner). It's got 2 ISA/1 VLB slots...just perfect for a nice, small LRP
router... (I'm using an identical one for that at home)
Aaron
pretty good hamfest in benson, nc probably because the greensboro one next
month is cancelled. picked up 2 tandy model 100s and 1 kyotronic 85 (same
thing) for $15, a mac adb mouse, XGA2 card still in box and other pc junk.
unfortunately, had to pass on a coco2 with disk drive and a really clean PS/2
77. it breaks my heart, but you really cant save everything...
DB Young Team OS/2
--> this message printed on recycled disk space
view the computers of yesteryear at
http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm
(now accepting donations!)
I just came into ownership (well, I've have it a couple of days) of a
Supermac Technology Enhance card that was an internal upgrade for a Mac128K.
I need some information on this card, such as feature set, connectors, etc.
Basically I need a manual, a copy of same, or to communicate with someone
with experience
with this vintage card and a Mac 128K.
Anybody know about it?
Thanks,
John
jlewczyk(a)his.com
>Probably should make one thing clear here, as long as it's just the one room
>and the garage, I plan on simply running one cable and connecting a hub in
>the house to a hub in the garage.
It's fallen a bit out of fashion in the past few years, but 10Base2
(50-ohm RG58 Coax) is particularly useful for the "home runs" between
twisted-pair hubs. Many twisted-pair hubs come with Coax connectors for
just this purpose.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
>> I've found a box with 2 x 8" floppy drives. . . . external to some unknown
>> computer.
>>
>> The box is a Panasonic JB3038P and inside are 2 X JA751 drives.
>> The drive connectors and the cable coming out of the box are all 50 pin,
>> exactly like an internal SCSI cable. Unfortunately it isn't recognised by a
>> SCSI controller, at least not without fiddling with parity and stuff like
>> that.
>Why on earth do you think it would be SCSI? The standard 8" floppy drive
>interface (a de-facto standard defined by the SA800) is a 50 way ribbon
>cable. I'd bet that's what you have.
It *could* be SCSI, assuming a SCSI <-> SA800 controller is in the box
with the floppy drives. These are found not too uncommonly on some
Apollo and other early workstations. The ones that I've had to deal
with were actually SASI.
But, yes, 99% chance that it's just the SA800 interface cable.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
This fellow emailed me looking for some DEC parts.. maybe someone on the
list will be able to help him out.
Kevin
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 21:40:35 -0500
From: jmccance(a)muskingum.edu
To: A2K(a)ONE.NET
Subject: request
hi kevin
got your name from the classic computer rescue list. hopefully
you'll have some things that are surplus to you that you would
be willing to sell. so here is my wish list;
Dl11-E or DL11-W serial cards, 3
VS2000 12-meg mem, 4
VS40X 8-plane card for '2000 1
M8267 fp11-a /34a fpp 1
M8268 kk11-a /34a cache 1
( my /34 has the M8265 and M8266 cpu)
M8061 rlv12 rl-01/02 controller 1
M8017 dlve1 serial card 3
a unibus card that talks mscp on one side and st412/506 on the other.
or,
a unibus card that talks mscp on one side and scsi on the other.
yea i know, i want the moon;-}
also need the pin-out info for a DR-11C (M7860) and a AR-11 (M7809),
or tell me where on the net this can be found.
if you have any of this available for sale, please quote prices,
either per item or bundled as a lot and i'll see what can be
afforded.
thank you for your consideration of this request.
reguards
john
john w mccance
cambridge oh 43725
740 439 0182 home
jmccance(a)muskingum.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------
| i am in no way affiliated with Muskingum College. |
| The College is a community oriented school and the nice folks |
| at the computer center make available login accounts for |
| people in the community to have some access to the internet. |
| Many Thanks to them. |
|__________________________________________________________________|
> Subject: MicroVax I wont boot
>
> Here is the Capture File out Hyperterminal:
>
>
> MICROVERIFY STARTED
>
> MICROVERIFY PASSED
>
> 00000000 03
> ATTEMPTING RESTART
>
> RESTART FAILED
> ATTEMPTING BOOTSTRAP
>
> %BOOT-F-ERROR, None of the bootable devices contain a program image
> 000008B3 02
>
> It leaves me with a >>> (prompt)
> that seems to accept one character commands
> Is htere a way to send it a file that will direct it to Disk or Diskette?
>
> Several years have passed since I 've had this thing running and I believe
> I used to be able to list Devices.
>
> What Have I forgotten? Is there a generic default boot device target? Or
> do I need to specify one?
>
> Any reference Docs online to boot uVAX I?
>
> Larry Truthan
> truthanl(a)oclc.org
>
>
Hi,
I just received an IBM 5120, from Germany. The back says 200/210/220 volts
at 50 Hz. However, opening it up and looking at the power supply reveals
enough choices in wiring that I suspect the power supply might already be
capable of being easily adapted to 110/60 Hz ... does anyone have
any familiarity with this system? Otherwise, I'll be visiting
Fry's for something (transformer?).
thanks,
Stan Sieler
sieler(a)allegro.com
Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com
www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.htmlwww.allegro.com/sieler
I saw this in a newsgroup and I am just passing it on.
>In article <19991112094324.07490.00000376(a)ng-fg1.aol.com>,
>rborliniwm(a)aol.com (RBorlinIWM) wrote:
>
>> Want To Buy HP 3000/928 W/100 User License!!!!
>>
>> Bob Borlin
>> 440-449-8006
Did you ever pick up the Univac?
-----Original Message-----
From: Owen Robertson <mrdos(a)swbell.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 11:06 PM
Subject: New Collector in Need of Help!
I am kind of new to the collecting game. I am in need of some help. I need someone to tell me where I can find older and larger computers. I have a lot of micros, but now I am looking for bigger game. I have decided to focus my collection on older mainframes and minicomputers. Can anyone point me to sources? I found a local business that has older and larger computers, but the owner and I didn't hit it off. It's really a shame. He had some great stuff. While I was there I had to watch the workers scrap what looked like a very old classic control panel. Also, someone recently offered me a UNIVAC System 80. Anyone know anything about it? Is it something worth having in a collection?
>It is with pleasure that I report that the pdp-11/60 in Vancouver has
>been rescued!
Great news... kudos to all involved... score one for our side... :-)
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
OK, I've got most of the boards out of the PDP-8/m, and some of them are
rather in need of cleaning. Anybody have any recommendations? I don't
remember what the suggestions were the last time this came up, I just
remember that my method (Pink Pearl Eraser) was recommended not to use :^)
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
I have data sheets on Sharp ( electronics corporation ) LCD units circa
1988.
They Show a LM64015T Display which was also 640 X 400.
Its logic was 5.0 V (MAX 6 V) and the Supply (LCD) drive is Typical -21V
(Min- 32V. Max -14V)
It was driven with a Yamaha V6366 display controller.
There is also a TDK CXA-1301 Inverter spec'd which provides CCFT backlight
voltage ( Typical 1000 Vrms @ 400hz)
The Sharp LM64015T display is a 12 pin device,
Pin 1 labelled S for Scan Start up high
Pin 2 CP1 (clock pulse 1) Input Data latch (High to low)
Pin 3 CP2 Data Input Clock Signal ( High to low)
Pin 4 open
Pin 5 NC
Pin 6 Power supply for Logic
Pin 7 Gnd potential
Pin 8 Power for LCD Drive
with pins 9-12 being display Data, D0 - D4 respectively - (High on)(Low
off)
This gives an Idea of typical voltages and interfaces of the era. This may
not apply to the Specific Matsushita device you asked about. It points out
that there are often Display Controllers Like Yamaha V6366 and High Voltage
inverters like TDK CXA -1301 ( 100V- 1000V) for backlighting.
Sincerely
Larry Truthan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefan Boss [SMTP:stefan.boss@gmx.net]
> Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 11:56 AM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Old plasma display
>
> Hello
> I have an old Matsushita plasma displays (from a Compaq PC I think).
> Do you have any information about this (or a similar) display... any
> datasheets about data communication or the power connector pins???
>
> The display has the numbers
> MD400F640PD5
> 7.0.13 C:60963
>
> I'm very glad if you could help me...
>
> yours sincerely, Stefan
>
>
> PS: I'm a student from Switzerland and I might be interessted to write a
> assembler-program with my microcontroller system (MC68HC11G5) for the
> display.
>
> Reference:
> http://www.heydon.org/kevan/mlists/classiccmp/1998-08/msg01244.html
>
>
> --
> Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net
I am Samuel Caldwell's grand-daughter and would be very
interested in your copy of his book. Every copy I have ever
found has been well used and is in poor condition.
--
Jennifer Dowling Liles
I'm also having the same problem on my 2000. I have a feeling that it's
the floppy controller chip(s) but I'm not sure yet. At first I thought
it was a bad power connector but they all check out OK. Then I replaced
the FDs with no change. I even replaced the motherboard with a spare
that I had but all that ever comes up is the "256k memory" line, and
that's all. Still, I'm only making guess' here.
I should say that I aquired my two machines, one with a hard drive, for
free but they were not tested. I had to have a video cable made before I
could see what was going on with the system, so I'm not entirely sure of
what is supposed to happen on bootup. I had the same problem with a
Tandy HX a while back, and that turned out to be a bad memory chip that
was locking up the system when it ran it's memory test. I've been
tinkering with my 2000 off and on as I get new solution ideas but so
far, I'm stuck too.
<OK, I've got most of the boards out of the PDP-8/m, and some of them are
<rather in need of cleaning. Anybody have any recommendations? I don't
<remember what the suggestions were the last time this came up, I just
<remember that my method (Pink Pearl Eraser) was recommended not to use :^)
Dishwasher, bake at 160-170f until dry. All but the core plane. the core
plane is fragile and the water jets would blow the mat away.
The PDP-8F I have got that treatment. Vacuum the case well.
Allison
I just got back from the Tampa hamfest. Besides all the odds and ends, I
picked up a HP 9845 claculator, three old HP 2623 terminals, two HP 9885 8"
disk drives, a HP 9878 system expansion box and 6 or 7 interfaces for the
9845. Some of the intefaces are brand new and haven't even been unwrapped.
Also picked up a HP 7245 Thermal Plotter. A very strange item! It prints
on thermal roll paper using a full width printhead but it does excellant
printing and plotting.
Other items of interest include a HeathKit ET-3100 digital trainer with
manual, three IBM computer technical reference manuals (IBM convertable Vol
I and II and PS/2 model 30) and a Tektronix 178 linear IC tester. I also
found another manual for my Tektronix 4051 computer. This one covers the
hardware for the disk drives. Also got some kind of I/O box for the 4051, I
don't know exactly what it is yet. Also got four new manuals for a
Tektronix digital trainer. I left behind a FREE & operable PDP 11/34 with
expansion cabinet. I'm not real interested in DEC stuff and I didn't have
room to haul it or to store it. I barely missed getting a very clean HP 45
calculator in the box with charger for $5. But a close friend of mine
that's also a big HP fan got it so I'm not too upset. All in all, a pretty
good hamfest!
Joe
I finally have a PDP-8/m. On the 1st of November someone that knows I'm
looking for one notified me of a Internet auction that was ending in about
4 hours, and I was able to get the winning bid of $356 in (thankfully this
wasn't on eBay).
M8330 -- Timing board (system clock)
M8310 \_ KK8E CPU control
M8300 / KK8E CPU registers
M847 -- MI8E Hardware Bootstrap Loader.
M848 -- KP8E Power fail and auto-restart.
M849 -- shield to isolate memory from CPU
M8650 -- KL8E RS232 or current loop serial interface.
G104 \
H220 > MM8E 4K memory (H220)
G227 /
M8320 -- KK8E Bus terminator
It arrived today, and I just unboxed it a few minutes ago. As a result you
can see the web page with pictures at the following URL:
http://zane.brouhaha.com/healyzh/PDP8m.html
Now, I've got to figure out where I'm going to put it for the time being.
I also need to figure out what a couple of the cables that were included
are for. Unfortunatly I think the console interface is a 20ma interface.
However, there is a Canon plug that I've no idea what it goes to.
I'll be cleaning it up before I try and fire it up. Unfortunatly I've got
to leave for work in a little over an hour so that will have to wait till
tomorrow.
Also, the module list that I announced yesterday has grown in size
considerably and now includes at least a few parts from the following
systems:
PDP-4
PDP-5
PDP-6
PDP-7
PDP-8
PDP-9
PDP-10
PDP-12
PDP-14 Programmable Controller
PDP-15
PDP-16
The YADML can be found at ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/ModuleList.txt
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
>> Ah... Most 8" drives do have mains-powered induction motors, so the
>> frequency does matter. I've seen reference to the odd drive with a 24V DC
>> spindle motor, but I've never seen an actual drive like that (although I
>> am sure they exist). If the motor 'looks' like a mains motor, has a large
>> capactor can hung off it, and seems to have mains wiring going to it,
>> then it's likely to be a mains motor.
>The only 24V DC spindle motor that comes to mind at the moment was on
>the Tandon 848-02 DSDD half-height 8" drive, Tony.
In addition to those Tandons, there are also NEC and Mitsubishi HH 8"
floppy drives with 24VDC spindle motors.
For a challenge, how 'bout the other way around: what 5.25" floppy drives
have 120VAC spindles? (If any!)
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
I came across a box of stuff from my old DEC days, and one of the things
in it
was a xerox output copy of the manual for System 1022 Data Management
Software
for TOPS-10. Is it, or any info from it, of interest to anyone?
Will
>Didn't know an 11/60 was going on the trash block; those systems are
>RARE. And they were one of two 11's that could actually be microcoded in
>the field... (the other was the 11/03 with the WCS11)
I've not seen or heard of one since the one I used to use at DEC...
I've always wanted to have one to play with the WCS myself... I think
I have some development code somewhere for it...
If this cannot be saved, it will be a tragedy...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
>I am, however, going to save the CPU cards, any other cards, and the
>backplanes. I will also try to save anything else that can be readily
>removed from the machine.
If you can take some tools, I would appreciate your getting the
front panel from it...
>I did try to find a taker for this beast, as you'll recall from the
>lists, but unfortunately it's been almost a year and the potential takers
>have not been able to get around to picking it up. He cannot wait anymore
>and has arranged for a scrap metal dealer to pick it up this Monday.
>
>This is a sad situation, but at least I'll be able to save some of the
>machine. I'll post to the lists with my results.
This is sad... very sad... I wish I had space for it. I would take
it in a second... Even without space, I would consider it, but there
isn't enough time to arrange a rescue...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
<What are the commands available? And where can I find the boot sequences?
<Which is kindofa moot point right now because I don't have an os disk. ;(
CR, LF, P, /, R ODT is a very simple monitor for depositing, displaying
memory and registers. If your serious about PDP-11s fine a copy of the
Microcomputer handbook for one of the years in the range of 1976-9*!
They are pretty common and essential in the informationof the PDP-11
family.
<And what are all the device names?
Depends...
Allison
<>Watch out for the PS, the heath design was a switching low voltage design
<>and tended to fry itself.
<
<I don't suppose you have a modification to prevent this do you? :)
Don't substitute on parts and if all else fails use an H780.
Allison
Zane wrote:
>Of course it would be nice to mount the RT-11 Hobbyist software CD on a
>emulator running the Hobbyist RT-11, and without MSCP, I don't believe that
>is possible.
The best way to do this is with John Wilson's full E11, where you can
directly mount the high (RT-11 disk structure) partitions of the CD-ROM.
Of course, this requires the commercial version of E11 for large disk
MSCP support, and also requires a regular (non-hobbyist) RT-11 license
to run (as the hobbyist RT-11 license is only good on the Supnik emulator.)
I think it also requires a SCSI CD-ROM (though I could be wrong and
it'll work fine with an IDE CD-ROM.)
The next best way to do this is free, and doesn't require commercial
anything, just the Supnik emulator running on your system and a copy
of RT-11 in compliance with the hobbyist license. If you look in the
RT-11 freeware CD at the ISO9660 partition, you'll see that each and
every piece of software on the CD is represented as a logical .DSK
file. In particular, in the /dsk directory, you'll find 185 logical
disks of freeware, split up between the SIGtapes, the DECUS 11-xxx
entries, and the "other" stuff. These can be mounted as any sort of volume you
like under the Supnik emulator, as long as the emulated device is
large enough to hold the contents of the .DSK (i.e. you can use an
emulated RL02 to hold any virtual .DSK up to 20480 block.) Then
you're home free, and have "direct" access under the emulator to all
the contents.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
--- Megan <mbg(a)world.std.com> wrote:
> Isn't XKL doing -10 support?
Dunno about that, but I do know that at least one employee of XKL has a copy
of Zork for the -10 cuz I've run it (I used it to verify my port of the
ancient MDL code to Inform...
http://penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/zdungeon/
...for Z-machines the world over, from the C-64 to the Palm Pilot).
-ethan
=====
Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February.
Please send all replies to
erd(a)iname.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
--- "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> wrote:
> However, I'd be interested in hearing peoples results with the originally
> mentioned emulator. Bob Supnik's is quite excellent with better support
> from the looks of things, but it looks as if the Begemot PDP-11 emulator
> will do a couple things it won't (multiple terminals and DEQNA emulation).
I helped Bob Supnik debug the RP driver for his PDP-11 emulator (because
2.9BSD didn't used to install) and can say that I'm happy with it. My BSD
images are from a *real* 2.9BSD 16MT9 that I got about 15 years ago, and,
once the RP driver was fixed up, things worked real smooth.
While I have nothing against Ersatz-11, I don't need a PDP-11 emulator bad
enough to pay for it.
YMMV,
-ethan
=====
Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February.
Please send all replies to
erd(a)iname.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
[This line is here to make listproc stop bugging me]
The subject says it all.
(SUBJECT is one of listproc's commands and so it can't be on the first line
of the message. ^_^)
-------
> Subject: Re: Classic Hardware Documentation Project
> Date:Thu, 18 Nov 1999 18:11:09 -0500
> From: "Jason McBrien" <jbmcb(a)hotmail.com>
>
> Maybe not public domain, but I don't think, for example, Commodore (or
> whoever owns them now) would mind posting the schematics for the C64, or if
> someone were to scan in the owners manual for a TI/99, or a VAX 11/750
> technical manual. Otherwise, if a company goes belly-up, who owns the
> copyright then? The disclaimer I'm looking to write acknologes all
> copyrights, and would allow the holders to request that I take them down, as
> long as they can proove that the copyright is still valid and that they own
> it.
Between Project 64 and the Funet.Fi Commodore archive I think the 64 is
probably one of the best documented 8-bits on the net (and some of the other
Commodore 8-bit models as well). I think there have been some issues with the
games (like Hasbro who has been re-vamping old Atari titles and threatining
some of the games sites), but not much mention from the original Commodore
hardware community. :/
Ref:
http://project64.c64.org/http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/
--
01000011 01001111 01001101 01001101 01001111 01000100 01001111 01010010 01000101
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (209) 754-1363 300-2400 baud
Commodore 8-bit page at: http://www.jps.net/foxnhare/commodore.html
01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01010101 01010100 01000101 01010010 01010011
>"Bob Supnik's is quite excellent with better support
>from the looks of things"
Bob's emulator is quite good, but a drawback is that it doesn't
have MSCP emulation or Ethernet emulation.
E11 (Ersatz-11) has both. I believe that Viking does as well. I
don't know about Charon...
>What is the status now of Bob's work, now that he has left DEC?
>I thought I heard that Megan was working on 10 support, for example.
Me? 10 Support? No...
I'm simply working on trying to get my KS10 operational, while working
off and on on a pdp-10 emulator, using Bob's package as a base. I
have been working toward a KA10 emulator with conditionals (where I
understand things enough) to do the right thing for a pdp-6 or a
KI, and for those instructions I have done, I'm getting almost
600k emulated instructions per second (eips?). But I don't have
the PI system working at all, and there are some issues about
instruction processing I don't have down yet...
Daniel Seagraves is working on a KL emulator, and actually has
some code running, it appears (at least he has tried to boot
ITS and it has done a little of the boot process).
There are some other efforts around the net to produce various
-10 emulations...
I'm also in the process of getting all the software I do have for
the 10, currently on tapes, off to other storage with the help
of Tim Shoppa (actually, I'm just supplying him with tapes, and
he's doing the work... :-)
Most recent mail from him indicates we appear to have almost a
complete 7.03 distribution, parts of the 7.03A patchs and working
on a 7.04 distribution.
But as for 'supporting' this stuff... I was an okay -10 programmer
in college... I mostly did -11 stuff. I'll never be anywhere near
the level of the -10 gurus who wrote this code... so I would not
presume to 'support' it.
Isn't XKL doing -10 support?
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
> What's RT-11's device name for TMSCP tapes?
MU0: through MU3:, assuming that they are SYSGENed into existence,
you're running a version of RT-11 modern enough to support TMSCP (5.4
or later), and the CSR's and VECTOR's for the MU devices are set up
to match your hardware.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
>"Bob Supnik's is quite excellent with better support
>from the looks of things"
Regarding my previous post... don't get me wrong, I mostly
use Bob's emulators, especially since I'm doing my own
emulator work using his code as a base...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Here is a list of DEC gear I must get rid of. It's a sizeable part
remaining of that Great Haul I had back in Summer '98. Setting out in our
garage. Also, some miscellaneous items are listed at end.
Absolutely no room to keep the machines as I must soon clear out a storage
cubicle upon which I'm paying $62/month rent. I could certainly better use
those bucks for paying bills and also want my radio items stored at home.
Can't contact anymore -nor find thru searching to the best of my ability-
the previous party who was interested.
So it goes to the list. Come an' get it!:
** VAX 11/750 with a TU78 console tape cartridge (diagnostics? boot?) Was
mainline system at the place I got all this gear from. Office had been
closed since 1994 and equipment stored there. Owner decided to not renew
his lease and had to get rid of everything fast (in the meantime, I
discovered this and bought a truckload of goodies :-) Reportedly has VMS
5.3 or 5.4 plus several diff. language compilers on the RA81's listed next.
Set of six TU78 cartidges with VMS 5.3 on them.
** RA81 in 40" rack (p/o the 750).
** TU80 tape with RA81 drive in 40" rack (p/o the 750).
** PDP-11/24 w/FPF11 (M8188) floating pt. option, two RL02's all in 40"
cabinet. Cabinet is same physical size as the 750's cabinet (40" high,
about same width & depth.) Console prompt okay but need to fix RL02 problem.
** PDP-11/34A in a 40" rack. Not complete. Old, early style, square-edged
shaped metal programmer's panel. Not the stylized plastic shape most are.
** RL02, at least three units *not* including the two in the 11/24. Fault
lights appear on two or three (yes, I checked them while hanging off my
11/34A with RL controller :-)
** RL01, one unit. Fault light, IIRC.
** RK07's, four units. One is known to come up without a fault. Another has
rather noisy spindle bearing. Others Fault, IIRC.
** RK611 system unit for BA11 with all five boards. Came out of the 11/34A
I'm keeping.
** RA60 (needs to be fixed) Seems to be a platter motor driver problem. No
spin-up, IIRC. Two disk pacs included.
Note: I strongly suspect this RA60 went with my 11/34A, which I'm keeping,
as the box had the UDA50 boardset installed and of which was up and running
next to the 11/750 at the ex-owners' office. So, probably 11/34A-specific
software on the pacs. It's RSX-11 v. 4.2 or 4.3 I rather suspect. *Think* I
have an extra UDA50 boardset boxed up somewhere. There's a set in the 11/24
I know. Then again, it could have hung off the /24 as it, the RA60 and the
/34A were all setting near the 750. Rest of the stuff on this list, except
for two RK07s, were crammed into a small storeroom up the hall.
** decwriter I (LA180) page printer. Not checked.
** decwriter II (LA36) printing console. Not checked.
** decwriter III (LA120) (Typical printing console device for the 11/750,
et al). Not checked.
(BTW: What's the exact differences between the decwriter II and
decwriter III ??? I've got no documentation on them.)
** ADM-11 terminals, two units. Not checked (as of yet).
** VT100 terminals & kbds. Two or three units. Working fairly well IIRC.
** DECmagtape system. TS03 drive and TMB11 I/F (together called a TMB11-M
system). Mounted in a DEC 6' tall PDP rack (with the purple and magenta
trimpiece at the top). TMB11 I/F mounted in a 10.5" BA11 box. Not checked.
Has two of the three RL02's mentioned above residing in the rack. Uses 7"
dia. tape reels mentioned next.
** tapes 7" size, 800 BPI, about 85 of them
** 7' tall tape storage rack for hanging above tapes.
** RK07 disk pacs, about 20 or so.
** RL01 disk pacs, about 20 or so. Have to sort out some to keep on hand
for an RL01 I'm keeping.
** RL02 disk pacs, about 25-30 or so. Same, have to select-out some for one
or two RL02s I'm keeping.
Here's something from my collection which *must* go because of severe space
limitations:
** Tektronix 4015-1 graphics terminal, two units, same as 4014 except
includes APL keyboard and 19" screen. I've had these in the collection for
14+ years and they still worked when last checked in '97. RS232
communications. Came out of the old IBM Endicott plant in '84/'85 when they
"downsized" (jeeeze, I dislike that word now since I had personally
experienced it last year :( ) Kinda big.
** Zenith Z19 terminals, two or three. One I know has defective RS232
chips, other(s) are okay.
** Zenith Z90. Carterphone OEM version. Some additional boards and parts
go with it too. Worked, no floppy installed.
** Teletype ASR33 (one or more units). One or more may function. Need
relubing/adjustment.
** Bunches of Zenith Z150-series boxen and keyboards. 15 sets I think, in
various conditions.
I might dredge up some more smaller stuff to toss onto this listing as time
allows. There's certainly more to go.
I'm waffling on getting rid of my VAX 11/730 which needs mass storage of
some sort added and some other minor restoration. It's a small big iron VAX
which makes me unsure whether to get rid of it so far.
If ya want to contribute a little $$ on top of shipping/packing material
costs I sure won't complain! :-)
Smaller items could be shipped but the big stuff should be picked up
(unless you're prepared to pay the freight costs for it).
Phone: 1.716.488.1722 from 08:00 to 20:30 EST. Location: Western NY State,
off the NYS Rt 17(very soon to be I-86), just past West side of Jamestown
on Rt. 394.
Thanks for your interest. Please take it away soon!
Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/
I'm restoring a TRS-80 model 1, 16K level II basic, cassette tape version
(though I dont have a cassette tape player yet, just lots of tape software).
Anyways, every key seems to have keybounce problems. These keys are the kind
with a rectangular tube which, when depressed, allows two contacts (one flat
and one with about 4 prongs) to come into contact with each other. There is
a strange mustard-like substance in each key in various places near the
contacts.
I'm wondering if this yellow stuff is supposed to be there, ie, is it some
sort of conductive rust preventative? Is it supposed to be the color of old
mustard, or has it seriously decayed in the past 21+ years?
Suggestions on how to properly clean/refurbish this to near-new condition
would be appreciated.
-Lawrence LeMay
"Bob Supnik's is quite excellent with better support
>from the looks of things"
What is the status now of Bob's work, now that he has left DEC?
I thought I heard that Megan was working on 10 support, for example.
Well, for those of us who cant have our own 11/34s, here's hte next
best thing:
Path: news.onr.com!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.tli.de
!do.de.uu.net!f.de.uu.net!news.uni-stuttgart.de!news.ruhr-uni-bochum.de!gmd.de
!gmdtub!not-for-mail
From: Hartmut Brandt <brandt(a)fokus.gmd.de>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11
Subject: Version 2.4 of the p11 PDP-11 emulator
Date: 19 Nov 1999 15:04:33 GMT
Organization: GMD-FIRST
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <813ou1$lp7$1(a)freebsd.first.gmd.de>
NNTP-Posting-Host: scotty.fokus.gmd.de
User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-19990805 ("Preacher Man") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.0-CURRENT
(i386))
Xref: news.onr.com alt.sys.pdp11:644
Version 2.4 of p11 - the Begemot PDP-11 emulator - is available on
ftp.fokus.gmd.de:/pub/cats/usr/harti/p11. This release supports the following
platforms:
FreeBSD 4.0
Sparc-Solaris 2.[5678]
Redhat-Linux
It will possibly work on FreeBSD [23].* and other Linux variants.
To build it you need libbegemot (avalaible in the same location), gcc and
gmake. Previous versions also built on BSD/OS and SunOS.
A version of the emulator is run on one of our machines. Try one of the
following (it may not always be available):
telnet scotty.fokus.gmd.de 10000
telnet scotty.fokus.gmd.de 10001
telnet scotty.fokus.gmd.de 10002
telnet scotty.fokus.gmd.de 10003
to get connected to one of the four available terminals. If telnet
connects, but this terminal is currently in use, you'll get a short
message. You should then try connecting to another port. Once you are
online, log into 2.11BSD with username and password guest/guest1.
Don't forget to logout, before disconnecting with telnet.
Note, that there is an IP connection to the host machine, but not to the
outside world (this is due to IP routing restrictions in out network).
The current implementation emulates a KDJ11A, one or more RLV12, RHV??, RK11
disk controllers, a boot ROM, one or more KL11A controllers, on FreeBSD and
Linux a DEQNA ethernet adapter, a read-only TM11 tape and a standard line
printer interface. A boot ROM (with source code) to boot from RL/RK and RP
discs is included.
On a 450MHz Pentium-III a full 'make world install' of 2.11BSD takes around 6
hours, which is several times faster than a real PDP. Floating point
performance is even higher.
The emulator hast tested with 2.11BSD, RSX and RSX-PLUS, RT V4, V[4567]-Unix
and XXDP.
Enjoy,
Harti B. Brandt
--
harti brandt,
http://www.fokus.gmd.de/research/cc/cats/employees/hartmut.brandt/private
brandt(a)fokus.gmd.de, harti(a)begemot.org
It seems to me that there are cases such as government funded privately (by
contract) generated documents in which ownership of the information is
public, but ownership of the document itself, i.e. the layout, text
formatting, etc, is property of the party or parties who generate and print
it. In the case of hardware, the information is part of a patent, not part
of the document in which it is presented, therefore subject to prevailing
patent law not copyright. This, like most legal matters, is probably
subject to the whim of whatever court your adversary manages to get to hear
the matter if you don't beat him to the punch, however, until such time as
superior court decisions etch it in firmer material.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Hans Franke <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, November 19, 1999 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: Classic Hardware Documentation Project
>> Public Domain? Not if there's any indication of a copyright on them.
>
>> That disclaimer you plan to write will not cut it if there is a copyright
>> on the documents. Very few documents could be considered PD unless they
did
>> not have a specific copyright notice OR if there is a general specific
>> release given by the copyright holder to PD OR the copyright holder gives
>> *you* permission to hang it out on your website for the public to see
with
>> a notice stating the copyright holder still retains copyright. Recently
>> revised copyright laws make *everything* copyrighted nowadays.
>
>ALso you may have to take into account that other countries may have
>complete different Copyright laws. For example, German law defines
>three complete different positions within:
>a) The Copyright is strictly limited to natural persons. No company
> or whatsever may hold a copyright. Also a person is _unable_ to
> sell this right. If you are issueing some work, it's yours until
> the end of time. Business is still not restricted, since you are
> entiteled to sell comerial usage of your work on a royality base.
> These comercial right are also only valid for a limited time beyond
> your lifespan.
>b) To be copyrighted a pice of work has to reach a 'non trivial level'.
> So a simple note may or may not be copyrighted - even a book may not,
> althrough based on regular court decisions it's hard to do this.
>b) There is no thing like Public Domain. Every work (if it reaches a
> defined level) is copyrighted. It is just impossible to give up your
> copyright (like it's impossible to give up your human rights - well
> basicly the same idea). You may choose not to use your right and
> pursue violators, but never give up your basic copyright.
>
>Well, this isn't ideal world, so in every days business the situation
>is the same.
>
>Gruss
>H.
To whoever may be interested:
Would anyone be interested in a donation of a 286 AT clone, equipped with
a 20MB hard drive, 5 1/4-in floppy, and Samsung monochrome monitor? The
machine no longer operates, so it may be of interest only as a museum piece
representative of a common desktop computer of the mid-1980s. If anyone is
interested, please reply to my email address below.
Sincerely,
Steve Jaskoski
stevejaskoski(a)hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I've now got a little more info about those machines in Woodbridge VA.
Here is an excerpt from the e-mail:
> If you have one or two people that are serious about this, that would be ok,
> but maybe not a dozen.... I looked around a bit on Friday and the DEC is a
> PDP 11/34, there are several old IBM (and other ) pc's, printers (atleast 2
> NEC spinwriters and other Oki, epson and Lord knows what else) and boxes &
> boxes of old software. Boxes of old boards.... just a plethora of fun, sorta
> like going thru Grammas attic...
Unfortunately, it sounds like mostly PC stuff. And he does not want to
deal with a dozen different people.
So, I'd like to choose two designated information-collectors to meet
at the warehouse (or factory, or whatever it is) and make a list of
what's there. If these things are really going for free, we'll want
to work out a way of avoiding conflicts, so nobody feels cheated. I
suggested that this guy may want to take offers as a way of resolving
it, but I don't know if he'll do that. If he does, I recommend
bidding _low_, since he wasn't planning to make money out of this.
I expect he will choose a date in the first weekend of December for
viewing the heap. (He will be out of town this weekend.) If you want
to volunteer to be on the info-collection team, let me know. If I get
more than two, I'll choose by rolling dice. If a chosen person has
to back out, I'll roll the dice again.
Also, after this, I will be sending only to the list of people who
have expressed an interest, not to the entire classiccmp list. If
you want to be kept informed, and are seeing this only through the
classiccmp mailing list, you need to let me know to add you to my
own list of interested people.
Cheers,
Bill.
From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
>ODT, yes...
What are the commands available? And where can I find the boot sequences?
Which is kindofa moot point right now because I don't have an os disk. ;(
And what are all the device names?
Thanks yet again,
- Mike
From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
<snip> thanks,
>Watch out for the PS, the heath design was a switching low voltage design
>and tended to fry itself.
I don't suppose you have a modification to prevent this do you? :)
>
>Allison
>
Thanks,
Mike: dogas(a)leading.net
>>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> writes:
Only yesterday I dear the pdf's of the Daybreak tech ref
manual (cited in this thread)! It was frustrating because althought
it corroborated everything I've discovered, it did not explained what
I have not yet discovered, namely the KEYBOARD CODES!!!
Does anyone know the actual keyboard codes? I guess this is
the big question right now.
Tony> What are you using for a monitor? At a quick glance, the
Tony> Daybreak monitor has ECL inputs for sync and video, and no
Tony> idea what the scan rate is..
I don't recall the excat values, but I got from a digital
osciloscope, the following values:
HSYNC: 28kHz
VSYNC: 76Hz
I have a mono monitor with HSYNC at 15kHz and VSYNC at 50Hz,
which I was able to hack (!) in order to sync to the above values. I
use a simple transistor buffer to convert from the ECL output to the
75OHM load of the monitor. I can give you further details on this if
you want.
Cheers,
--
*** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt>
*** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda
*** Teaching Assistant and MSc Student at ISR:
*** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa
*** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL
*** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585
The recent interest for simulators/emulators on this list has prompted
me to share publically the modifications I've made to the Supnik 2.3d
simulator.
It is available at:
ftp://ftp.mrynet.com/pub/operatingsystems/simulators/sim2.3d+BB1.tar.gz
Others who have already seen the modified work from me will have known
this file as "sim2.3e.tar.gz." I've changed the distribution file name
to prevent confusion with any official distribution that might perhaps
follow from Mr. Supnik.
There are regular (daily) minor changes to this as I clean it up and
verify portability to other platforms.
My interest in making modifications were for the same reason I've seen
posted about the Supnik emulator: limited serial line support.
Below is a summary of my work.
Please email me any impressions, suggestions, requests and additional
modifications.
Kudos to Mr. Supnik for his extremely understandable and workable
simulator.
Cheers,
-skots
--------From the top-level README--------
From: Scott G. Taylor
September 4, 1999.
This is the Supnik Emulator for the Nova, IBM 1401 and DEC PDP
8, 11, and the 18b family PDPs 1, 4, 5, 7, 9 and 15. A directory
exists for each of the models where an executable is created.
(Except for the PDP 1, all the 18b CPUs are handled by the
pdp18b executable coding).
Current copyright information is contained in the file COPYRIGHT.
The original copyright and documentation are contained in the
file 'doc/simh_doc.txt'.
Additions to the original Supnik 2.3d distribution:
A utility program called `xtapeutil' has been added to the utils/
directory. This program allows you to interactively read and
write tape images in the format used by the emulator. You can
create tapes from individual files, or from "tape log" mapped
images. The generated images have been tested extensively and
found to work with all bootable tapes for RSX, RSTS and UNIX
operating systems. It is also currently being reworked to aide
in transferring real-tape data to simulator-format images, as well
as handling labelled real- and simulated-tapes.
Summary of modifications:
The only modifications to the original source code are in the PDP-11
simulator version. With the exception of reorganisation of code into
discrete directories for each simulated processor version, no other
code has been modified. The only exception is a small modification
to allow adjustment of the CLK timing in simulators which utilise
a clock (in common/scp.c). Additionally, a structure of makefiles,
compatible with BSD and GNU make, has been added to facilitate simulator
builds.
The PDP-11 code was modified in the following ways:
o Addition of a 4-line DL-11 driver (pdp11_dl.c).
o Removal of the stddev KL11 code. The console KL11 functionality
has been assumed by the pdp11_dl.c DL11 code. The console line,
however, can be reimplemented by defining -DUSEKL in the pdp11
Makefile.
o Work-In-Progress on a 4/8-line DZ-11 driver.
o A utility program, called 'netline' has been created to allow
the simulated DL-11 serial lines to be accessible via TCP
TELNET protocol.
See README_pdp11 for more details.
Building the simulators:
I have 3 VT220's with keyboards that are available. I'm not sure the
keyboards are vintage VT220 but they are DEC.
2 VT220-AC white screen
1 VT220-BC green screen
They are not in great shape they were manufactured in 1985-1986 and have
been in use in our microbiology lab. They work!!!
If you pay shipping and packing they are yours. If you are close we can
work out other means.
Mike
mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu