- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 14:55:44 -0800 Al Kossow <aek(a)spies.com> writes: >"DTC has denied that they ever made bridge boards (even though I >have several)" > >I have docs on most of the SCSI OMTI/DTC/SMS boards. I would be >interested in info on the larger DTC 14xx series boards, esp the >ones that SMS used in the QBus boxes that weren't compatible with >DEC disc drivers. The ones I have are all 510's (I think), 5.25" formfactor. Can't get any info on these (a couple aren't even marked with the model number!). One has a row of blinkenlights (510B). Would be good to get info on these. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 7 months

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LET'S (old topic)/and PDP-8I code/update

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 1:16 AM Subject: Re: LET'S (old topic)/and PDP-8I code/update > > >--- John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: >> >> I got the 8I finally to lead a tape properly.. First a quick memory tester: >> >> I am going to put up a bunch of little programs on my webpage so folks can >> test devices without trying to get a paper tape up (will do TTY, and maybe >> basic INST test, and some more core tests) >> > >Thank you, John. That's just the sort of thing I can use right now. My >PDP-8 assembler skills are _very_ rusty and its helpful to see working stuff >that fits on one page to get my mind back in the right frame. I think it's >been 15 years since I wrote anything from scratch. > Your welcome. I think they will help a lot of people out as *most./all* of the 8 has to be running to get MAINDECs fed in.I will have the programs up on the page by Monday morning. I am having to restore PDP-8s *really* fast so I have to be able to find problems quickly. The most important useful <1 page programs I have had to write (over the past day) are: memory test memory test with parity option memory - inhibit driver test (very small) - scope needed memory -X/Y test (very small) - used to find X/Y driver problems with scope. tty software loopback tty continuous output generator (character selected on SR) tty device selection test (scope needed.. checks flags and W103s) high speed paper tape continuous reader high speed paper tape 1/0 test high speed punch test (select character to be punched on SR) high speed paper tape copier (less than 20 bytes or it's free! ;-) ) If you can think of any others that would be needed please tell me as I want to get them all done and tested. >-ethan > > >===== >Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >Please send all replies to > > erd(a)iname.com >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. >Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com >

26 years, 7 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> Heres a question for anyone reguarding bridge adaptors. is there >a Scsi 2 to Floppy bridge board around? I would like to find one that can >be used with an XT or 486 system I have here with a scsi host adaptor. Sure, lots of workstations shipped from the late 80's onwards used SCSI floppy drives, generally a generic 3.5" floppy disk with 34-pin interface through a bridge board. Specifically, look for DEC RX23 (1.4MB) and RX24 (2.8MB) floppy drives with attached SCSI bridge board. They're all over the surplus market. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 7 months

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[OT] They're restarting Chernobyl?

by classiccmp＠mrynet.com

> Slashdot has a link to an MSNBC story about the Russians restarting reactor > #3 at the Chernobyl plant in the Ukraine. They need the power but can't > afford a new reactor. > > Sounds like a fun place to work, eh? ^_^ Yobanoye sovetskoe naslesdtvo. The Ukranian, Byelorussian and Russian governments continue to be engaged in their Soviet legacy -- Absolute lack of concern for the environment, the people, and their neighbours. You can follow this legacy on the RFE/RL (Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty) web page and mailing list at http://www.rferl.org. regards, -skots -- Scott G. Akmentins-Taylor InterNet: staylor(a)mrynet.com MRY Systems staylor(a)mrynet.lv (Skots Gregorijs Akmentins-Teilors -- just call me "Skots") ----- Labak miris neka sarkans -----

26 years, 7 months

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ACB4070 ... (was Re: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?)

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well, first of all the 4070's not an MFM bridge adapter at all, but rather an RLL type. Before we proceed, though, I'd like to ask how the floppy fits in. The ACB4070 doesn't support floppy disks. LINUX doesn't care about the parity, IIRC. It's just the SCSI channel controller that has to be set up. It can either check or ignore parity, your choice, generally. In the case of the 2825, you need to type control-A at the appropriate moment during boot, and it will send you to the controller's BIOS for controller-specific functions. Where the trouble begins is in that modern SCSI drives know their characteristics, but the 4070 doesn't know what kind of drive it's got until it reads it. If it can't read it, it can't ask it for that data. The drive doesn't know either, until the 4070's formatted it. The controller's firmware formatter doesn't know how to TELL the drive/controller what's out there either, so you have to write your own formatter. That's not terribly difficult once you know the bridge controller and host adapter are talking. Unfortunately, I doubt the 4070 is smart enough to help you much. I've never used a bridge controller of any sort with the PC though I can't see any reason it shouldn't work. Now, the ACB40xx series isn't entirely true SCSI, and I have no idea how to make the typical modern host adapter "see" it. If you have specific questions, perhaps I can help you, but it's a big manual and I don't see myself scanning or copying it anytime soon. Dick -----Original Message----- From: B'ichela <mdalene(a)home.ctol.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 11:57 PM Subject: Re: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? >On Fri, 26 Nov 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >> My own interest in bridge controllers has been as tools. As you may have >> noticed, I have a number of hard/floppy controller bridges, but only a few >> different types. My goal is to be able to get hardware running in a hurry >> and bridge controllers are only helpful if you don't have to write new >> driver software for each application. >> >> I guess you might say I tend to collect things that are "nearly" ready to >> use, though they seldom see any use. > Heres a question for anyone reguarding bridge adaptors. is there >a Scsi 2 to Floppy bridge board around? I would like to find one that can >be used with an XT or 486 system I have here with a scsi host adaptor. I >have an Adaptec ACB-4070 or so, but it does not support parity. thus I >cannot for the life of me get it to work with my 486 under Linux, Nor do I >have any disks with any software for accessing an MFM HD that was attached >to it. its a Scsi to MFM hard drive bridge board, I also have a Scsi to >MFM bridge board made by Adaptive Data and Energy Systems, it >came out of a verisys multiuser 286 >system. I have had NO luck even finding documentations at ALL on this one. >the ACB-4070 (I might have the wrong numbers but the 70 part is right.) >sorta wants to talk to my Adaptec 2825VL host adaptor, but aparently it >lacks the Scsi device Identification string. thus when the host adaptor >boots, it cannot figure out what the ACB=4070 IS for! Can this be used on >a IBM compatible system? of so how? > > A pearl of wisdom from the y2K newsgroups: >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Y2K appears to be the Baby Boomers mid-life crisis, and it has the >potential to be a dandy. > -- Anonymnous -- >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > B'ichela > >

26 years, 7 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by edick＠idcomm.com

So you've had trouble getting 8" drives, eh . . . I've had trouble getting RID of most of mine, though I'm about there now. I still have a few DSDD types which I may use myself in the course of reconstructing my old S-100 boxes. A goodly share of my life's work has been designing bridge controllers of various sorts. SCSI<=>MIL STD 1553 is one you won't see often. I had to cook that one up when it turned out that a fellow contractor had claimed the had a 1553-interfaced WORM drive, when they really didn't. They did the full pitch and everything, and to our customer (NASA). They produced documents, part numbers, etc, yet when I started pressing for details, they buckled. It turned out that all they had was an objective spec. Our customer had based a whole chain of requirements on that pitch and the associated claims and passed them to us as requirements. My own interest in bridge controllers has been as tools. As you may have noticed, I have a number of hard/floppy controller bridges, but only a few different types. My goal is to be able to get hardware running in a hurry and bridge controllers are only helpful if you don't have to write new driver software for each application. The WD100x series was really handy for this, since once I had built a processor<=>WD100x interface cable adapter, the only thing that changed was drive parameters and controller address block. One of these days I'll up a SASI adapter as well, probably based on the code and instruction set for the XEBEC controller, since their code is published. There's code for an S-100 adapter example published in the ADAPTEC ACB4000 bridge controller series manual, but I've never tried that one out because I've heard it's compatible with the ADAPTEC boards but neither SCSI nor SASI. I guess you might say I tend to collect things that are "nearly" ready to use, though they seldom see any use. Is that screwy? Dick -----Original Message----- From: jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com <jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 11:05 AM Subject: Re: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? >I collect bridge boards. >I can't help it-- I have a fetish for bridge boards. All makes: >Emulex, DTC, Xebec, WD, Adaptec, etc. All kinds of configurations: >Cpu<->MFM (ala wd-1000), SASI<->MFM, SCSI<->ESDI, SASI<->QIC30, >all kinds. > >The SCSI<->SMD configuration still eludes me, however. I know >they exist (Adaptec ACB-55xx), though I've never seen one. Docs >are *really* hard to get. Still looking for the docs for the >Emulex MD-23, possibly the best darned SCSI<->ESDI bridge >ever made: Handles four drives at up to 24MHz data rate. Smokin'. > >8" drives are interesting to me too, but I haven't seen too >many in this neck of the woods. > >On Thu, 25 Nov 1999 23:48:11 -0800 Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> >writes: >>I am just wondering what some of us collect that we consider the >>screwiest >>ourselves. For example, for reasons I can't fathom I have started >>collecting Apple logo AC power cords, and have a couple dozen of >>various >>styles now. >> >> > >___________________________________________________________________ >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 7 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by edick＠idcomm.com

As I have experienced them, bridge controllers have two types of interfaces. One class is the HOST interface, often SCSI or SASI, and the other is the target interface, e.g. ST506 or SMD, etc. Though it's an easy mistake, it's like asking whether a SCSI channel could drive the Q-bus via an Emulex SCSI adapter. While the data can flow both directions, the relationship is still one of host and slave device. In short, NO! The SCSI <=> ESDI adapter won't let you interface a SCSI drive via an ESDI host interface, unless, of course, the ESDI is the host channel on the bridge adapter. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 7:48 PM Subject: Re: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? >>I collect bridge boards. >>I can't help it-- I have a fetish for bridge boards. All makes: >>Emulex, DTC, Xebec, WD, Adaptec, etc. All kinds of configurations: >>Cpu<->MFM (ala wd-1000), SASI<->MFM, SCSI<->ESDI, SASI<->QIC30, >>all kinds. >> >>The SCSI<->SMD configuration still eludes me, however. I know >>they exist (Adaptec ACB-55xx), though I've never seen one. Docs >>are *really* hard to get. Still looking for the docs for the >>Emulex MD-23, possibly the best darned SCSI<->ESDI bridge >>ever made: Handles four drives at up to 24MHz data rate. Smokin'. > >Something I've been wondering about. These boards look to have been used >to convert ESDI to SCSI for stuff like Apollo's and Sun's. Could they be >used to convert a SCSI drive to work on an ESDI controller? > >Feel free to ask if I'm out of my Freaking mind, I've never really taken >the time to look at them. Actually not sure I want to know, I think I gave >the box of such things away. > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 7 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by edick＠idcomm.com

CCS is one of the features which distiguishes SCSI from previous channel-based interfaces. There's no reason, though, to expect SASI bridge controllers to work with SCSI host interfaces. What disturbs me is that there are so many devices claiming to be SCSI-compatible when they clearly are not. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Al Kossow <aek(a)spies.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 4:02 PM Subject: Re: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? >"The SASI ones I never expected to work: They don't support >the 'IDENT' command (among other things) >" > >or disconnect/reconnect > >sounds like the unix drivers are expecting to be talking to a >SCSI Common Command Set board.

26 years, 7 months

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EMC buys DG for $1.1B

by maisnon＠yahoo.com

--- John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> wrote: > This was announced a few weeks ago... > > <http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?99089.piemcdg2.htm> > > - John Am I on your mailing list? ===== Edward J Beaulieu maisnon(a)yahoo.com ICQ# 10888245 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

26 years, 7 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by aek＠spies.com

"The SASI ones I never expected to work: They don't support the 'IDENT' command (among other things) " or disconnect/reconnect sounds like the unix drivers are expecting to be talking to a SCSI Common Command Set board.

26 years, 7 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by aek＠spies.com

"DTC has denied that they ever made bridge boards (even though I have several)" I have docs on most of the SCSI OMTI/DTC/SMS boards. I would be interested in info on the larger DTC 14xx series boards, esp the ones that SMS used in the QBus boxes that weren't compatible with DEC disc drivers.

26 years, 7 months

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Need help, and I screwed up with my post

by edick＠idcomm.com

There are other part numbers which should teach us to be specific. There's a Motorola MC4024, which is a dual VCO not unlike the 74S124. The CD4024 is a 7-bit counter. There's a Motorola MC4044 which is a phase-detector/amplifier intended for use with their MC4024 as parts of a PLL. OTOH there's the TI TMS 4044 4kx1 SRAM, and the CD 4044 which (?) is a quad RS flipflop. With NEC numbers, the uPD414 won't do much good if you need a uPC414. You can probably imagine how I learned some of these details. The fact that I still remember them may shed some light as well. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 2:55 PM Subject: Re: Need help, and I screwed up with my post >The use of the entire part number might avoid confusion as well. Intel has >never made a CD4040, have they? > >Dick >-----Original Message----- >From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 2:28 PM >Subject: Re: Need help, and I screwed up with my post > > >>On Fri, 26 Nov 1999, Tony Duell wrote: >>>Yes, there are some numbers that were used for 2 or more totally >>>different chips. The other well-know confusing one is '4040' which is >>>either a CMOS 12 bit ripple counter (and is very common) or the second >>>Intel microprocessor (and is much rarer). >> >> Ahh, but the 4040 microprocessor is a 24-pin DIP...making it difficult to >>confuse them "in person"... >> >> -Dave McGuire >

26 years, 7 months

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Need help, and I screwed up with my post

by edick＠idcomm.com

The use of the entire part number might avoid confusion as well. Intel has never made a CD4040, have they? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 2:28 PM Subject: Re: Need help, and I screwed up with my post >On Fri, 26 Nov 1999, Tony Duell wrote: >>Yes, there are some numbers that were used for 2 or more totally >>different chips. The other well-know confusing one is '4040' which is >>either a CMOS 12 bit ripple counter (and is very common) or the second >>Intel microprocessor (and is much rarer). > > Ahh, but the 4040 microprocessor is a 24-pin DIP...making it difficult to >confuse them "in person"... > > -Dave McGuire

26 years, 7 months

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Need help, and I screwed up with my post

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

DOH! I should read all the posts next time... I was thinking Intel 8251's... <smack> However, if there is interest I could make a list of all my extra IC's... some are pretty dang old. I also have all the schematics, software, etc. for the Nova 1210. However, I need help with mine... I plugged it in after reassembly and it works, but I quickly turned the key to off and unplugged it cuz I noticed smoke coming from one of the capacitors on the back of the backplane.. I either plugged the power connectors in backwards or the supply is faulty, any ideas on how to diagnose this? I have the schematics but they show a totally different supply than what is in the machine... I got the Nova from a guy I met through Usenet. He said he had a microVAX 3100 and a VAXstation 3100 for me, if I would go get them, as well as a VMS gray wall. So I went up and got the stuff, and while I was loading it we started talking... he mentioned he still had his first computer, a Nova 1210, up in his attic... so we went up and dug it out and he said it wouldn't boot... opened it up and the PSU was loose inside, bending the boards. He then said i could have it if I wanted it, but he didn't think I'd want it because it didn't boot. So I carried it down and put in the car, with the board all out of it in antistat bags. It has 8K of core! Woohoo! Anyways, I happened to notice a bunch of manuals and some binders marked "Cray Research" in the trash area... I asked and he said they were mine if I wanted them... So I got an orange wall also.. as well as gems like VAX-11 FORTRAN and a complete UNICOS manual set for the Cray Y-MP/216. I also have VAX-11 C on 9 track. Unfortunately, he said I should have met him earlier, since he had already taken a microVAX I to the dump.. I did get three random Qbus boards though. Then he said his son down the street has some PDP-11's I can have.. so I need to go back.. I still haven't gotten the Teletype either... Also I have found a source of PDP-8 boards, don't know how many or what they are but I can get them Sunday... Will J ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 7 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:15:34 -0500 CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com writes: >>The SCSI<->SMD configuration still eludes me, however. I know >>they exist (Adaptec ACB-55xx), though I've never seen one. > >I believe the Adaptec boards are what were bolted onto the Fujitsu >SMD drives I saw with a SCSI controller on them. I want to say that >I've seen some OMTI ones too, but those may have been SASI. Seems most of the OMTI bridges I've heard about were of the SASI Variety . . . >At one point I had a Pertec Formatted <- SCSI bridge, but it never >interacted well with the hardware I wanted to use it with so it got >traded away. Funny you mention this; many of these boards were made before the SCSI standard was 'solid'; hence some rather bizarre compatibility problems. Take the Emulex MD-23, for instance. The thing works with MS-DOS, no problems. Formats, works great. I can hang two or more drives from it, no sweat. FreeBSD: Pukes on boot-up. Ditto with OpenBSD. NetBSD: OK. What the @$%&*?!?! Similar story with the ACB-4525; formats and runs great with MS-DOS, no other OS can talk to it (at least the ones I've tried so far). I guess MS-DOS really doesn't care. The SASI ones I never expected to work: They don't support the 'IDENT' command (among other things) Jeff. ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 7 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 10:07:54 -0800 Al Kossow <aek(a)spies.com> writes: >"The SCSI<->SMD configuration still eludes me, however. I know >they exist (Adaptec ACB-55xx), though I've never seen one. Docs >are *really* hard to get. Still looking for the docs for the >Emulex MD-23, possibly the best darned SCSI<->ESDI bridge >ever made: Handles four drives at up to 24MHz data rate. Smokin'. >" > >They exist.. I'll check if a friend of mine still has any. I have >a big pile of adapter docs. The only thing on line currently are for >the Xebec 1410 and 1401. Next time I'm at my storage locker, I'll see >if I can find the box that has all this stuff. I know that Tony asked >me for some old OMTI info a LONG time ago. Wow, I would *really* appreciate that! SO far, the only docs I have are for the ACB-4000, ACB-4525, and WD-1002-05' (thanks Richard!). DTC has denied that they ever made bridge boards (even though I have several), and I'm not even going to talk about Emulex . . . Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 7 months

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EMC buys DG for $1.1B

by jfoust＠threedee.com

This was announced a few weeks ago... <http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?99089.piemcdg2.htm> - John

26 years, 7 months

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Interesting... PDP-8/m Mem problems

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

OK, granted I don't know what I'm doing, but... I don't think there is anything wrong with the G104 board. I've been examining E24 and E28. The problem with E28 is it's not getting any input, and unless I'm mistaken E24 isn't either. The board is broken into 3 sections, and I've also checked the section next to it to get a better idea of what I should be seeing. Now for some very un-technical talk. I've been trying to find the lines that bring the bits from the Core board to the G104 board. As far as I can tell the bits are brought over on the back side of connectors 'F' and 'G'. There are 12 dual pin groups. The four that correspond to E24 and E28 aren't acting right. With the logic probe, when examining locataions, I only get a beep on the 8 that are acting right when it checks Memory locations: xxx0 - xxx3 (the ones effected by the bad 8251 on the G227 board). On the other 4 I always get a beep, no matter what location. So.... My conclusion is that the section on G104 that contains E24 and E28 isn't getting any bits, and may very well be a totally functional section. Having said that, I'm more than a little stumped as to how to attack the Core Board itself seeing as how it's sandwiched between two other baords. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 7 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 3:51 PM Subject: Re: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? >>The SCSI<->SMD configuration still eludes me, however. I know >>they exist (Adaptec ACB-55xx), though I've never seen one. I had to buy on of those in 1990 as I recommended we take the SMD drives we had and port them to the MacIntosh servers. The interface worked well but had # of head limitations. > >I believe the Adaptec boards are what were bolted onto the Fujitsu >SMD drives I saw with a SCSI controller on them. I want to say that I've >seen some OMTI ones too, but those may have been SASI. > >At one point I had a Pertec Formatted <- SCSI bridge, but it never >interacted well with the hardware I wanted to use it with so it got >traded away. > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 >

26 years, 7 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>The SCSI<->SMD configuration still eludes me, however. I know >they exist (Adaptec ACB-55xx), though I've never seen one. I believe the Adaptec boards are what were bolted onto the Fujitsu SMD drives I saw with a SCSI controller on them. I want to say that I've seen some OMTI ones too, but those may have been SASI. At one point I had a Pertec Formatted <- SCSI bridge, but it never interacted well with the hardware I wanted to use it with so it got traded away. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 7 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by aek＠spies.com

"The SCSI<->SMD configuration still eludes me, however. I know they exist (Adaptec ACB-55xx), though I've never seen one. Docs are *really* hard to get. Still looking for the docs for the Emulex MD-23, possibly the best darned SCSI<->ESDI bridge ever made: Handles four drives at up to 24MHz data rate. Smokin'. " They exist.. I'll check if a friend of mine still has any. I have a big pile of adapter docs. The only thing on line currently are for the Xebec 1410 and 1401. Next time I'm at my storage locker, I'll see if I can find the box that has all this stuff. I know that Tony asked me for some old OMTI info a LONG time ago.

26 years, 7 months

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LET'S (old topic)/and PDP-8I code/update

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: > > I got the 8I finally to lead a tape properly.. First a quick memory tester: > > I am going to put up a bunch of little programs on my webpage so folks can > test devices without trying to get a paper tape up (will do TTY, and maybe > basic INST test, and some more core tests) > Thank you, John. That's just the sort of thing I can use right now. My PDP-8 assembler skills are _very_ rusty and its helpful to see working stuff that fits on one page to get my mind back in the right frame. I think it's been 15 years since I wrote anything from scratch. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

26 years, 7 months

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4381 (was: Re: Grrrrrr)

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> However is seems that a lot of people just want to have them operational > in their house, garage etc. If this cannot happen just let the machine got > to the shredder. This is exactly what I was told by local hobbyists I > approached to find help in saving an IBM 4381 mainframe. Well I replied to the address you set up, but it seemed to have problems, so perhaps my message didn't get through. I worked at IBM when the 4381 was current, and I'd like to see one saved. Not sure how much help I can be at this distance, since I mainly worked on PCs, S/34s and S/36s. I did try and grab any technical info I could find (which was very little since I worked in a marketing unit) and I will try and look things up if I can find anything... > Now I have found at my university floor space, power supply and internet > connection, but almost nobody seems interested in it. Only the LInux 370 > community gave some feedback. Well done. I'm all in favour. (Can I still remember how to use CMS...?) > Have I 'invested' on the wrong thing to save? 8-( Your decision. If you think it's worth saving, save it. I think it's worth saving, but I'm not sure there's much I can do to help (which makes it easier for me to declare my support, I suppose). I will e-mail you privately... I tried to save a 4341 around 10 years ago when I was still a student. There wasn't a hope, though... Philip. ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. Power Technology Centre, Ratcliffe-on-Soar, Nottingham, NG11 0EE, UK Tel: +44 (0)115 936 2000 http://www.powertech.co.uk **********************************************************************

26 years, 7 months

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LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???)

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 25, 1999 5:09 PM Subject: Re: LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???) >> >> >> >> Grrrrrr. >> > >> >I agree with you, Dave- it seems that recently there's been a surge of >> >"this or that computer is junk, it's only worth scrap for metals content. > >And I'll agree with you two... > >> >I'll enjoy scrapping this one" As I recall, indiscriminate bashing of any >> >particular computer is prohibited by this list's FAQ and Rules (and I'd >> >definitely say that calling a whole class of machines junk would be >> >bashing). > >Yep!... > >> > >> >When some of us go hunting in Dumpsters and scrapyards for measly old >> >micros, while working minis are being gleefully hauled to the shredder for >> >gold content, it kind of makes you wonder if it's all worth it. > >Some of us only see 1 or 2 interesting machines every year. And some of >us spend _months_ trying to track down an obscure option or manual for >our machines. And then we get people like this appearing... > You are not proactive ,.. sorry, that meant you actually have to financially commit to get more minis! >> > >> >Richard >> > >> >> First, I have never brought any kind of mini/micro to a gold reclaimer... If >> I get a system I really don't want I either take the boards out and have the >> rest crushed or ask one of my scrapper friends to cut it up. "I'll get what > >I am not sure what the difference is, since it means one less interesting >computer in the world. > > That's right,, easy to say save every mini when you don't do anything pro-active. Tell you what Tony.. I gave addresses for 30,000 pounds of systems today.. Who here is committed to flying into those sites , pay for them, remove them and then SHIP THEM! >[...] > >> We should resolve this issue... What is a collectable computer?? I think > >Simple, a collectable computer is one that somebody wants to collect. And >there are people here who want to collect just about everything that ever >computed... > I Agree. >> there are enough COCO-2s in collections to cover all of Toronto... should I >> still hoard and buy every unit I see? I realize this is a touchy issue so I > >Well, there's another issue here. > >If you buy up a machine and scrap it, then it's gone, period. > >If you don't then somebody else will buy it. Most likely they'll scrap >it, so it's still gone. But there's a small (but non-zero) chance that it >will be bought by somebody who actually wants to use it again. Large companies don't offer "pick and chose"... you really haven't called companies or factories have you to bid on a lot? > >I am _not_ at all convinced that you're helping to preserve computers. Again, the couch potato approach.. Much easier to think the minis will go to nice place when bought by scrappers. > >> I am looking for. For the most part I will get stuck dealing with a lot of >> VAX 11/78Xs, IBMs, some Supercomputers (like the Fujitsu) and a lot of >> PDP-11s. None of these computers are rare in any way and are quite abundant > >This is obviously a definition of 'rare' that I am not used to. FWIW, >none of those machines are at all common in my experience... > That's because you aren't doing anything to look for them. I can't remember the last time a Vax 11/780 fell out of the sky. >> among collectors. They are heavy, difficult to deal with and not profitable. > >Ah... You're doing this to make a profit. No wonder I can't understand it. > and God forbid I make some guy happy getting him a machine he has always wanted than telling him to wait for one to fall out of the sky and hit him. Oh, and let the machine he has always wanted go to the melter! Get a grip! http://www.pdp8.com/ john >-tony > >

26 years, 7 months

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NCD 15r + monitor 15b

by edick＠idcomm.com

NCD apparently just private-brand-labelled monitors from HITACHI among others. If you take the plastic off, you'll likely find a "real" manufacturer's name and model number. good luck! Dick -----Original Message----- From: Rodrigo Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 25, 1999 11:59 AM Subject: NCD 15r + monitor 15b > > Hi. I just got my hands on an NCD mono X term model 15r and >I'd like to know what are the sync frequencies of this monitor. > > Any information about this terminal is also extremely welcome! > > My idea: to hack an adapter to connect this monitor to a Xerox >Daybreak workstation. > > Cheers, > >-- > >*** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt> >*** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda >*** Teaching Assistant and MSc Student at ISR: >*** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa >*** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL >*** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585

26 years, 7 months

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FW: FS: Rainbow & decmate stuff

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Rainbow and DECMate goodies for those who care to contact the author of the attached post... -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On Thu, 25 Nov 1999 17:15:02 -0600, in comp.sys.dec.micro you wrote: >>From: "SpaceKommander" <jboldway(a)cottagesoft.com> >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro >>Subject: FS: Rainbow & decmate stuff >>Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 17:15:02 -0600 >>Organization: Cottage Software Inc. & The Internet Connection >>Lines: 23 >>Message-ID: <943571262.98033(a)linux2.intcon.net> >>X-Complaints-To: newsabuse(a)supernews.com >>X-Priority: 3 >>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 >>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 >>Cache-Post-Path: linux2.intcon.net!unknown(a)20.ict-max.intcon.net >>Path: news1.jps.net!news-west.eli.net!sdd.hp.com!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail >>Xref: news1.jps.net comp.sys.dec.micro:109 >> >>Happy Turkey Day! >>I'm stuffed with turkey and my house is stuffed with computer stuff. >> >>Time to clean out! >>Memory board fully stuffed with 256K chips (768K totak on board) for >>Rainbow - $10 >>Rainbow CPM 86/80 V 2.0 documentation pack >>Rainbow System Kit and Installation Instructions >>Rainbow MS-DOS operating System V 2.11 - all three above documentation packs >>for $10 >>Rainbow WPS documentation - in black binder rather than brown/grey box with >>purple stripe above three have. $5 >>DECmate Word Processing - The Basics and Word Processing - Options. 2 >>documentation packs - $5 for the pair. >>Rainbow 100 in tower case with RD50, floppies, fully populated memory >>expansion card and video expansion card. Works perfectly. Comes with >>keyboard, monitor (sorry - B&W, not color) and cables. $50 for all. >>RD-50 - works fine. $5 >>Prices do not include shipping. >> >> >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."

26 years, 7 months

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Fwd: VAX 11/730 System and 11/750 parts available

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

I received the following message this morning, and due to the nature of VAX 11/730's I suggested he just send it to the list, but turns out he's not subscribed and asked if I could forward it. So here goes. As always, reply to the person below, not me. Zane >X-From_: allogagaw(a)megsinet.net Thu Nov 25 10:40:42 1999 >Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 12:16:39 -0600 >From: Mark Wilbur <allogagaw(a)megsinet.net> >Subject: VAX system on Classic Computers? >To: pechter(a)pechter.dyndns.org, healyzh(a)aracnet.com, allisonp(a)world.std.com, > jim(a)calico.litterbox.com, jfoust(a)threedee.com, mikeu(a)conan.ids.net >MIME-version: 1.0 >X-Priority: 3 > >Bill, Zane, Allison, John, Mike and Jim > >I picked your names at random off of ><mailto:classiccmp@u.washington.edu>classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu >in part of a VAX tread. > >I have a VAX 11/730 system and parts from a 11/750 taking up space >in my hobby shop. I have not played with them in several years. > >I also have a complete 11/44 system. > >Given any interest, I will try to itemize the options. > > >These are old enfough to be classics. (or maybe still boat anchors) >Think it is worth offering on the list? or should I scrap them? > >I need more room for my PDP-8 stuff :-) > >Mark Wilbur - St. Louis, Mo. > > >

26 years, 7 months

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LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???)

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 25, 1999 5:28 PM Subject: Re: LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???) >On Thu, 25 Nov 1999, John B wrote: >>The fujitsu is *HUGE*... I doubt anyone here would want to even try and run >>it. Its worth more in parts than whole. It's not old (6 maybe 7 years).. so >>what does one do?? The boards are nice, they look great.. Collectors are >>looking for this kind of stuff to hang on their walls... can't possibly run >>it. > > That's a big assumption. I know someone who would want it...and want to >*run* it...and has the heat/power/space capabilities to do so. I can't speak >for him of course, but I'll be he'd be interested right now. > > But was anyone ever given the chance? > You are talking right out of line here Dave. I haven't even picked up the units yet. When I do, I will offer it (as I have everything else)... Start reading the messages first Dave.. I am starting to understand why scrappers/factories won't take your calls and just melt the stuff. > Supercomputers rarely have high resale value because of the specificity of >their applications. That translates to "worthless", or relatively so when >compared with their often-multimillion-dollar new cost. The important thing to >note, however, is that WORTHless != USEless. Somewhere, there will be someone >who would peel off their fingernails to get their hands on such a machine. > That's right. EBay seems to bring people together that way.. WORTHLESS = NOT WORTH THE MONEY TO PAY FOR AND PICK UP. However, the Fujitsu might be worth some bucks as parts... and just might make 4 others *work* again. > -Dave McGuire >

26 years, 7 months

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Corroding Core memory

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 11/15/99 7:28:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, Henk.J.Stegeman(a)is.shell.com writes: > > I have some core memories stored in my garage which is relatively > dry, but I don't like the risk that they get corroded. > Put them in an antistatic bag with a small bag of silica gel inside the bag. Pack in a box with more silica gel. Silica gel is often reusable. Bake it in the oven to drive the moisture out. This will work well unless the boards actually get wet. Paxton

26 years, 7 months

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LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???)

by yoda＠isr.ist.utl.pt

>>>>> "John" == John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> writes: John> That's life. I *really* find it hard to understand why John> scrapping a Vax 11/780 would break your heart when there are John> probably at least 100,000 left in mills out there... and no John> one wants them! It's not that hard. Just remember that attraction to something/somebody is not related to the whole number in the whole planet, but instead the number you have access to. I can give you millions of examples. I understand you treat Vaxes like garbage because you have handled so many of them. But I, for instance, have never touched an actual Vax, and therefore I feel a _different_ thing. Do you see? Different experiences mean different evaluations of reality. This is not hard to understand, is it? Take women! There are millions of Pamela-Anderson-alike in the planet, yet any (straight) man can't help from being attracted, can he? (with or without artificial boobs, I guess... 8-))))) Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt> *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and MSc Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585

26 years, 7 months

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Got a partial list of some of this load... (FUJITSU/VAX)

by Innfogra＠aol.com

Did I miss where this stuff is located, shipping info? Paxton

26 years, 7 months

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Archives and Computer Museum History Center

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

Dag Spicer wrote (about the goals of the CM History Center): >>>4. Have your own sites linked to (or even archived) by the Center as a >>> way of bringing attention to your specific area of interest. >> >>You're ahead of me... what do you mean by archived? I would think that >>private sites would be kept up by the owner... >One of the concerns we have at the Center is that while there are superb >computer history sites out there run by individuals, there is no >institutional architecture for ensuring that they can continue past the >sponsor's lifetime or (much more likely) even five years. As you know, >some of these sites are simply superb and irreplaceable resources whose >loss would be gravely felt. If we take the geological timescale into >account (50 years for computers!), there is a real concern that such >wonderful resources might no longer be maintained after some finite amount >of time. I think you'll agree this is a pretty reasonable conclusion. Certainly, in this day and age, after an archive of information is *organized* getting it *distributed* isn't such a big deal. For instance, I've been archiving all PDP-11 (and also PDP-10) DECUS software/freeware that I've been able to get my hands on for most of this decade. The collection started out as hundreds of reels of 9-track tape, lots of 8" floppies, etc. Now the PDP-1n freeware collection, several Gigabytes in size, resides on a handful of CD-ROM's which the public can access through anonymous FTP, a web site, and they can also order CD-ROM copies through Amazon.com. Does it take a concerted effort to package a widely dispersed collection into such a tiny and potent package? Of course! None of this would have been possible without my networked PDP-11's here in the lab with tape and disk drives to read the old distribution media. But after it gets distilled, it's easily distributed. I can pop a CD volume into the mail for a few bucks, compared to the hundreds of pounds of original tapes and disks that the software was originally distributed on. And - as icing on the cake - real PDP-11's with attached CD-ROM readers can directly read the CD's, since the CD's are available with native PDP-11 filesystems on them. So, in many respects, things are much easier today than they were a decade ago. What *isn't* so easy is tracking down the "originals" and convincing their owners that it is a good thing for the contents of their archives to be copied to more modern media. Now, it may seem like a no-brainer to many folks here that this is the "obvious" thing to do, but let me tell you, getting my hands on stuff to put into the archive is like pulling teeth sometimes. Usually the tapes are stacked in the back of a warehouse or in someone's basement, in less than ideal storage conditions, and just getting their current owner(s) to drop them in a Fedex box and send them to me (on my Fedex account number, so they're not out any money) can be an ordeal. So, Dag, let me ask you this: what efforts are being made at the Computer Museum History Center to archive media in the collection? While my personal efforts have been concentrated on PDP-11's and PDP-10's, I'm certain the Center has a wider range (and older collections) of information that can be transcribed to modern media. Most of what you have is several decades old by now, I would guess, and you've got a coherent plan to check the condition of the media and copy them to more modern forms when possible, right? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 7 months

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Some Progress on -8/m Mem problems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Zane, <I have loads of 8251's all pulled from various things, not desoldered all <socketed.. I have 1000+ ICs from all kinds of stuff... Is it the 8251 usart (28 pins) or signetics 8251 decimal decoder (14/16pins)? Allison

26 years, 7 months

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Some Progress on -8/m Mem problems

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

Zane, I have loads of 8251's all pulled from various things, not desoldered all socketed.. I have 1000+ ICs from all kinds of stuff... Will J ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 7 months

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Yet more on -8/m Mem problems

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

OK, I've discovered something, but have no idea what it means. For all that goes, I am honestly not sure why I discovered it other than I was fooling around with the front panel while checking voltages on the memory module. I had the following results when depositing 7777 to the memory. Memory locations: xxx0 - xxx3 don't save anything Memory locations: xxx4 - xxx7 save 7760 This holds true to at least location 0200. On to other matters, I'm trying to do the resistance checks on pg. 4-16. I've run into a couple of problems. It says that each winding for one bit is ~3 ohms, however I show them at ~6 ohms. Also step 6 tells me to check the resistance of diodes FSA2501. Um, someone mind explaining how to do this exactly? Beware, I don't have the equipment to put the core plane on extenders and run cables to the G104 & G227 boards. Near as I can figure out they're a diode array from Fairchild Semiconductor, however thier web site doesn't have a data sheet. Shouldn't the resistance readings from one chip match that of another chip? Oh, I do have the scope at home now, but haven't tried anything yet, or checked into how horrible the probes are (I remember they're pretty pathetic). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 7 months

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Grrrrrr

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 25, 1999 5:10 PM Subject: Re: Grrrrrr >> Exactly, reality kicks in. You can't run a big IBM in your home... sorry, > >Care to explain why not? I am pretty sure there are collectors in the UK >with 308x IBM mainframes that they're either running or fully intend to >get running. > >> not going to happen. People only want the minis they can run easily at home >> and something that does not disrupt the house as it is. > WOW! Thats amazing.. Great! When I post it here then I should expect someone to buy the system right??????? >That's news to me... I want machines that are _difficult_ to run (the >easy ones are no challenge...). And disrupting the house is no real >problem either... > >> >> Most collectors want: > >If ever there had to be proof of the damage that these sort of >'collectors' are doing to the history of computing then this is it. > >> That's right,,, they are all wrong and you are *right*????? >> The first computer they ever touched (that's where I come in) >> An old transistor mini >> Maybe a PDP-8/11.... > >Fortunately, few of us here are 'most collectors'. People here do not >(necessarily) want the 'popular' machines. Many of us what the machines >we had never heard of... > Mee too. I have quite a colelction myself.. (and not the popular ones) >> >> Most others aren't worth the cost of shipping. > >If ever I find out that you've scrapped certain machines, the known >number of which remaining can be counted on the fingers of one hand (in >unary!), then I will not be responsible for my actions. > HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH.. That's funny .. sit here and whine about the minis being crushed but you do *nothing* proactive to seek out and *save* those units... All wind, no action gets you ..............................<nothing> http://www.pdp8.com/ john >-tony > >

26 years, 7 months

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LET'S (old topic)/and PDP-8I code/update

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 25, 1999 8:13 PM Subject: Re: LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax6000,2Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???) >Upon the date 06:11 PM 11/25/99 -0500, John B said something like: > >>>Some of us only see 1 or 2 interesting machines every year. And some of >>>us spend _months_ trying to track down an obscure option or manual for >>>our machines. And then we get people like this appearing... >>> >> >>You are not proactive ,.. sorry, that meant you actually have to financially >>commit to get more minis! > >So, all of us who want to be proactive and save interesting machines will >become high rollers first :-/ > no. just put out the money, time and space to house such units. We all know that is not cheap. Fortunatly, I am able to fill a void and make some $$ in the process. and I wasn't refering to you., I know you have done some trips. -------------------------------------------------------- now off that topic: I got the 8I finally to lead a tape properly.. First a quick memory tester: ; 22 = FIRST ADDRESS TO START WRITING PATTERN TO ; 23 = CURRENT ADDRESS BEING WRITTEN TO. START 10 7200 CLA ; CLEAR ACCUMULATOR 11 1022 TAD 22 12 3023 DCA 23 ; SET ADDRESS COUNTER MAIN 13 7064 LAS ; LOAD ACC WITH SR CONTENTS 14 3423 DCAI 23 ; STORE PATTERN IN MEMORY 15 1423 TADI 23 ; LOAD WRITTEN DATA. (SHOUDL CAUSE A PARITY ERROR HERE IS MEMORY BAD) 16 2023 ISZ 23 ; IF ADDRESS=0 , INC 23, SKIP NEXT INSTRUCTION TO START LOOP OVER 17 5013 JMP 13 ; GOTO MAIN 20 7200 CLA 21 5011 JMP 11 ; GOTO START (RESTART) 22 0024 ; FIRST ADDRESS TO START WRITING PATTERN TO. 23 0 ; TEMP VAR, CURRENT ADDRESS TO WRITE PATTEN TO. This routine will test all locations from 24->7777 Play with the SR and see if you can creat a pattern to cause the PDP-8 to crap out. IF it does you know which location the problem occured at by looking at the MA register. The 8I ran this well. I found out the problem was a bad solder joint on the paper tape reader causing too much gain on certain holes.. (thereby causing bad reads at high speed). I am going to put up a bunch of little programs on my webpage so folks can test devices without trying to get a paper tape up (will do TTY, and maybe basic INST test, and some more core tests) http://www.pdp8.com/ john > --Chris >-- -- >

26 years, 7 months

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LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax 6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???)

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Richard W. Schauer <rws(a)enteract.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 25, 1999 12:13 AM Subject: Re: Made a deal to get a Vax 6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10??? > was: > >On Wed, 24 Nov 1999, Dave McGuire wrote: > >> On Wed, 24 Nov 1999, John B wrote: >> >As for the systems, I will probably scrap the Vax6000 (for EBay souvenirs). >> > >> >I saw one of the Fujitsu boards last year.... nice... most of the chips had >> >heat sinks on them (ram board).. and they were huge.. Again too new and too >> >big to deal with.. I'll get what gold I can out of it. >> >> Grrrrrr. > >I agree with you, Dave- it seems that recently there's been a surge of >"this or that computer is junk, it's only worth scrap for metals content. >I'll enjoy scrapping this one" As I recall, indiscriminate bashing of any >particular computer is prohibited by this list's FAQ and Rules (and I'd >definitely say that calling a whole class of machines junk would be >bashing). > >When some of us go hunting in Dumpsters and scrapyards for measly old >micros, while working minis are being gleefully hauled to the shredder for >gold content, it kind of makes you wonder if it's all worth it. > >Richard > First, I have never brought any kind of mini/micro to a gold reclaimer... If I get a system I really don't want I either take the boards out and have the rest crushed or ask one of my scrapper friends to cut it up. "I'll get what gold I can out of it"... is an expression meaning I will try and get as many Ebay dollars out of the boards as I can to offset the purchase and shipping of the lot. We should resolve this issue... What is a collectable computer?? I think there are enough COCO-2s in collections to cover all of Toronto... should I still hoard and buy every unit I see? I realize this is a touchy issue so I will try to explain where I am coming from and I would appreciate opinions. I have taken a leave of absence for 1 year to restore and cycle through as many minis as I can for private collectors (kind of an *early retirement* if I get the right ones). I have quite a "wish list" and a "want list".. On average I usually have access to at least 40-50 minis/year. I usually send 40+ to the chopper. I can't possibly store so many units (especially when most collectors don't want them). I expect a few hundred over the next year >from auctions, scrappers, factories, and trade-ins.... I have gotten together with quite a few scrappers (through the ones I know) and other contacts to dig out as many possible sites that would have the kind of minis I am looking for. For the most part I will get stuck dealing with a lot of VAX 11/78Xs, IBMs, some Supercomputers (like the Fujitsu) and a lot of PDP-11s. None of these computers are rare in any way and are quite abundant among collectors. They are heavy, difficult to deal with and not profitable. The documentation and software are everywhere for these computers and *more* weight I have to deal with. I can't possibly keep every Vax, Fujitsu, IBM, PDP and most people in this group cannot deal with such large systems... So what do I do???? One idea is to pull the boards out and hope to dump them on EBay... [I am paying for this equipment]. That would help people fix their own minis if they needed the boards... There will be systems *worth* restoring (that's why I am doing this), IE: alot of PDPs 8s, transistor PDPs, and maybe some 18 bits,, I expect an IBM 360 along with at least one 1401... and a lot of spares , docs, and software. The fujitsu is *HUGE*... I doubt anyone here would want to even try and run it. Its worth more in parts than whole. It's not old (6 maybe 7 years).. so what does one do?? The boards are nice, they look great.. Collectors are looking for this kind of stuff to hang on their walls... can't possibly run it. and the Vax 6000. The last one didn't even fetch $300 on EBay. There are thousands of Vaxes and I am sure millions of RA81/90s (whatever) out there. No one wants the stuff [well, maybe the boards] I agree with you on one thing.. I will refrain from calling certain minis/micros *junk*.. but put yourself in my shoes.. If you had cabinets of minis/mainframes coming in every month and *very* limited time/space what would you do with them ? ... [and of course consider the fact that you *paid* for them]. I will at least mention them here for parts before I have them shredded. Basically, any mini I get that does not *like* paper tape will probably get chopped up for parts. P.S. I asked about 2 months ago if anyone wanted a free RH11 boards. I got no responses - none. What should I do with them? Upset my wife more by keeping them or toss them in the dump? Suggestions? >

26 years, 7 months

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Oscilloscopes

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 11:19 PM Subject: Re: Oscilloscopes > > >--- Jeffrey l Kaneko <jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com> wrote: >> My sentiments exactly. >> I should *never* have sold my 465B. It was in pristine condition, >> and I sorely miss it today. I would seriously look for a *nice* >> 465. They're old, but there were alot of them made, and they're >> pretty reliable (well, I never had any trouble with mine, anyway). > >That ain't old... I've got a Tek 317 that I bought at auction about six >or seven years ago... it has an A.E.C. inventory sticker from 1968. The >sign at the auction cashier's window said, "All equipment is guaranteed >to be non-radioactive". Some reassurance. :-) I just won two Tek RM503s on EBay, one for my 8/S and one for the 8I. Talk about old.... I have never worked on scopes this old... Hope I can get them up and running to play spacewars soon. These were the original scopes used in the LAB-8.. and now I find out (contrary to quite a few things in the PDP-8 FAQ) they were also used as the oscilloscope on the 34D interface. How is your 8/e restoration going? john > >It didn't come with probes, but a friend of mine at the local university >found me a package of vintage probes, unopened, in a drawer. Probably been >there since they were new. > >-ethan > > >===== >Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >Please send all replies to > > erd(a)iname.com >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. >Yahoo! Shopping. >

26 years, 7 months

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Grrrrrr

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Enrico Badella <enrico.badella(a)softstar.it> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 25, 1999 4:06 AM Subject: Re: Grrrrrr > > >Mike Ford wrote: >> >> >> Grrrrrr. >> > >> >I agree with you, Dave- it seems that recently there's been a surge of >> >"this or that computer is junk, it's only worth scrap for metals content. >> >I'll enjoy scrapping this one" As I recall, indiscriminate bashing of any >> >> This is an iceberg kind of thing, 90%+ of old computers are going to the >> shredders, or just as bad sitting in some deteriorating environment. 90% of >> the rest is getting dismantled for parts, and only a tiny number are being >> kept "operational". > >Agree. > >However is seems that a lot of people just want to have them operational >in their house, garage etc. If this cannot happen just let the machine got >to the shredder. This is exactly what I was told by local hobbyists I >approached to find help in saving an IBM 4381 mainframe. > Exactly, reality kicks in. You can't run a big IBM in your home... sorry, not going to happen. People only want the minis they can run easily at home and something that does not disrupt the house as it is. Most collectors want: The first computer they ever touched (that's where I come in) An old transistor mini Maybe a PDP-8/11.... Most others aren't worth the cost of shipping. >Now I have found at my university floor space, power supply and internet >connection, but almost nobody seems interested in it. Only the LInux 370 >community gave some feedback. > >Have I 'invested' on the wrong thing to save? 8-( > >e. > >======================================================================== >Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella(a)softstar.it >Soft*Star srl eb(a)vax.cnuce.cnr.it >InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 >Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 >10143 Torino, Italy > > Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, > manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals >========================================================================== >

26 years, 7 months

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Got a partial list of some of this load... (FUJITSU/VAX)

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

?? notes I am not sure if I got the number right. RA81 - 3 of them RA81 - 3 more RA82 - 6 TA81?? (tape) TU81/82? HSC50AA Vax 6000/610 63AMDYE SA600 HSC50 Omnigraphic Recorder (still more to come on this unit) (partial fujitsu - this is the smaller, older of the two): F6470A M770 N770 F1751E F6425GB4 F170051- (something) F6425GA?4 F675AC Does anyone know any of these Fujitsu part numbers? The fujitsu has: 2 - 2000LPM printers, 2 "coke machine" type 50 minimum capacity tape cartridge robots [thats what they described it as], and two CPUs. More peripherals... haven't gotten that far yet with their purchasing officer... I have found out they will be scrapping two VAX8000 series units (huge) along with the 750s, some micro vaxes [many] (oops, can't say that --- undesirables) and the other stuff in the next few months.

26 years, 7 months

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Your message to ClassicCmp

by aek＠spies.com

"very shortly (as in the next week or two) there will be a public archive available with TOPS-10 distribution tape images, sources, build kits, etc. Total quantity of stuff (at the moment) is in the few hundred megabyte range, and will likely grow a bit by announcement time. Keep your ears peeled to alt.sys.pdp10 for details. There will be about 200-300 Megabytes of PDP-10 (TOPS-10 and TOPS-20) DECUS freeware, too." This is WONDERFUL news! Thanks, Tim!

26 years, 7 months

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LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax6000,2Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<a pile of other minis I have not seen yet. I do know I will be getting a <pile of ASR-33s... no idea why they held onto them. Good question but people occasionally want one. <If you have items you are seriously looking for please-mail me. I won't be <dragging everything to the shop. I would but, I don't want the price to go up 1000%. :) Seriously I'd like to find a 4k(or larger) core set for an 8E and an RX8 controller. However if there were a wish... I'd love to see a skip full of NT boxen crushed. I'd pay to see that. Allison

26 years, 7 months

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Your message to ClassicCmp

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>"The PDP-6 in question is coming back to the History >Center by December 20 (this year) as part of a.donation by Compaq >which is clearing out a little-known warehouse TCM used for deep storage." > >Do you happen to know if any documentation or software was stored there? >There was just a discussion on alt.sys.pdp10 that it appears that all of >DEC's PDP-10 software archives disappeared, and I'm hoping they MAY have >ended up there, maybe other software as well (people were unable to locate >18 bit software, for example). I don't know about the History Center's software archives - I would imagine they've got loads of tapes and packs, but no equipment nor time to use them - but very shortly (as in the next week or two) there will be a public archive available with TOPS-10 distribution tape images, sources, build kits, etc. Total quantity of stuff (at the moment) is in the few hundred megabyte range, and will likely grow a bit by announcement time. Keep your ears peeled to alt.sys.pdp10 for details. There will be about 200-300 Megabytes of PDP-10 (TOPS-10 and TOPS-20) DECUS freeware, too. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 7 months

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NCD 15r + monitor 15b

by yoda＠isr.ist.utl.pt

Hi. I just got my hands on an NCD mono X term model 15r and I'd like to know what are the sync frequencies of this monitor. Any information about this terminal is also extremely welcome! My idea: to hack an adapter to connect this monitor to a Xerox Daybreak workstation. Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt> *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and MSc Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585

26 years, 7 months

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RH11

by pat＠transarc.ibm.com

John B. mentioning having some RH11 board reminded me ... Does anyone have an RH11 *manual* they'd be willing to part with? I asked a similar question on the info-pdp11 list recently, but got no leads... Thanks, --Pat.

26 years, 7 months

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Grrrrrr

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Al Kossow <aek(a)spies.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 25, 1999 11:52 AM Subject: Re: Grrrrrr >"Most collectors want: > >The first computer they ever touched (that's where I come in) >An old transistor mini >Maybe a PDP-8/11.... > > Most others aren't worth the cost of shipping. >" > >Fine, but if you scrap a machine, try to at least get the documentation and >software to someone that can use it. Many times these items are separatated >from the computers as they're being disposed of. These items are much smaller >and are also practical to ship, and are vital to restoring the other machines >around the world that haven't been parted out. > I am actually doing that for you Al. I have you wish list and will send documentation to any system on your wish list.. Most companies trash the software and docs as normally scrappers don't want it or the company feels it can't legally hand it out. (I feel another Boo!, Hiss coming but I can't keep every manual either): I don't throw out any documentation I get with systems even if I do scrap them...but my dad likes to heat his home with wood and so I give him surplus manuals to start his woodstove/fireplace.

26 years, 7 months

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UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Stephen Jensen

by jensens＠mcs.net

Hope I'm doing this right. I need to unsubscribe from this mailing list. It generates too much traffic for me and I can't keep up.

26 years, 7 months

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LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???)

by aek＠spies.com

"We've got quite a few sets of eyes and ears sensitive to looking for minis on this list, not just micros --including folks with close connections to scrappers-- and there are relatively few alerts raised as to 780 or 750 (and other big iron mini) availabilities vs. your contention many types are common. " A friend of mine in Milwaukee has an 11/780 he'd like to sell, if anyone near there wants it. It will be a non-trivial de install, though (it's in a basement). If someone is serious about this, I can forward his phone number / email adr.

26 years, 7 months

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Your message to ClassicCmp

by aek＠spies.com

"The PDP-6 in question is coming back to the History Center by December 20 (this year) as part of a.donation by Compaq which is clearing out a little-known warehouse TCM used for deep storage." Do you happen to know if any documentation or software was stored there? There was just a discussion on alt.sys.pdp10 that it appears that all of DEC's PDP-10 software archives disappeared, and I'm hoping they MAY have ended up there, maybe other software as well (people were unable to locate 18 bit software, for example).

26 years, 7 months

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