- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<There's always the well-known kludge method. You get a 3-phase motor <somewhat larger than the one you want to run (any such induction motor <should work). You energise one winding from single-phase mains, using a <capacitor to generate enough phase shift to another motor winding for it <to start and run. Then use all the motor terminals as a 3-phase output to <the motor you want to run. Effectively this new motor becomes a rotary <converter. < <I assume the motors in disk drives are not that large, so this may well <work. It's certainly been done for (small) lathe motors. I've seen this done for motors in the 3-5HP range! Allison

26 years, 7 months

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PDP-11 Processor Handbook?

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Hi Brian: At 06:49 PM 11/28/99 -0500, you wrote: >I think it's great what you're doing -- digitizing PDP-8 docs for public >use, however my main interest is the PDP-11, so I was wondering if you >have a PDP-11 Processor Handbook (preferably one that relates to the >PDP-11/45) that you plan on digitizing? Thanks. Thanks! Credit for the scanning goes to others, I just manitain the web site. I don't have anything on the pdp-11 in electronic form. Rich Cini specializes in pdp-11 stuff, he has an account on highgate too. See http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini to see what he currently has online. I've cc-ed him on this message so you can talk directly if necessary. You could also ask on the classiccmp list: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu, or on the pdp-11 list: info-pdp11(a)village.org List folks: can anybody help this fellow with an electronic format processor handbook? Good luck, Kevin > > > ========================================================== Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department E-Comm Project (604) 215-5095; Cell: (604) 868-0544 Email: mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca

26 years, 7 months

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Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> wrote: > On Sun, 28 Nov 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >Since the GOV also loved DEC, I'd be very surprised to learn that there's no > >practical implementation available of the EXB8200 on a DEC machine... > > They do exist...I have a couple of subsystems here which have Exabyte > drives in them (unmodified, regular SCSI drives) with bridge boards which > go to SDI connectors on the other side. We had a few of them on the VAXcluster at Lucent. Screwy damn things... you had to double-tap one of the bridge-card buttons to unload the tapes; they wouldn't unload with the internal eject button nor under VMS control. I myself have more than one 8200. If anyone is looking, let me know. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

26 years, 7 months

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Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Unless there is no equivalent... I've got the exact problem with the <DECsystem-10 I got earlier this year... it came with two RP06 drives. <They are 3-phase drives. We don't yet have three phase power (or a <close approximation of it), so cannot run the drives. Without the <drives, we cannot even load the microcode for the machine, so it is <a very large paper-weight. < <I've been looking of a non-three-phase replacement for the drives, but <we still would need three-phase to get the data off the disks I have. Why not a rotary phase converter, not the most efficient but buildable. That would allow running the drive off a single phase ckt that is heavey enough to take the load. Allison

26 years, 7 months

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DEC Qbus Card

by ndiablo＠diablonet.net

Hi! I'm not sure offhand what the card is, but you might want to check the Visual Field Guide at http://vaxarchive.org - it has a lot of information useful in regard to identifying and configuring a lot of QBus cards. -Sean Caron (root(a)diablonet.net)

26 years, 7 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

as for myself, beer cans and antique outboard motors 1960 and earlier. In a message dated 11/26/99 4:21:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, jim(a)calico.litterbox.com writes: > Um... Swords. And Anime Cels. Old PCs seem to follow me home, but they > either > get taken apart and recombined into useful machines or thrown out, so I > wouldn't > call them a collection. > > > > I am just wondering what some of us collect that we consider the > screwiest > > > ourselves. For example, for reasons I can't fathom I have started > > > collecting Apple logo AC power cords, and have a couple dozen of various > > > styles now. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Jim Strickland > jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com

26 years, 7 months

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Obsolete media -- wanted a non-three phase RP06

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> It would be great if there was a massbus interface for a more recent >> tape drive, and the same for a disk... it would be neat to be able to >> have a DAT tape acting like a TU77 or something supported by the machine, >> and a couple of SCSI or even IDE disks acting as RM03 or RP06 disks... >> >> (anyone know of any? Anyone up for the challenge of designing one?) >Well, considering the DEC Massbuss patent and that they damn near sued >anyone who used it to death... I don't think it will get much interest. >I don't know any company out there that would consider it. Luckily, a company called SETASI did consider, and has been selling Massbus-compatible interfaces to "modern" drives for the past two decades. DEC, as a matter of fact, has been selling several SETASI-produced units for the past several years. The SETASI Shelby has been listed as the DEC RM06 and RP12 in the DEC Systems and Options catalog for some time now. See http://www.setasi.com/DECPP.html for details. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 7 months

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Need DOS 3.3 to restore a PC based instrument

by edick＠idcomm.com

In case you can't get the right dos version right away, perhaps you could try loading SETVER. That should work with your later DOS version. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Stan Perkins <stan(a)netcom.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, November 28, 1999 10:49 AM Subject: Need DOS 3.3 to restore a PC based instrument >Hello all, > >I have just acquired a PC-based instrument. It's a Model DTA 8850 >Digital Timing Analyzer, made in 1989 by a company called International >Test Instruments, Inc. in Irvine, CA. Unfortunately, they seem to be out >of business. > >The machine is based on a PC architecture, with the specialized signal >conditioning circuitry on a backplane. It has some sort of non-volatile >electronic disk as the C drive. I was able to determine that the >operating system is DOS 3.3, but there is something munged about it, >because it won't run the application software for the instrument. I can >boot the instrument from a floppy, but the only version of DOS I have is >6.22, and the instrument gives "Incorrect DOS Version" error messages >when I run the application software (but it does run). > >I would like to get a copy of DOS 3.3 to restore this machine to its >original state. Also, does anyone know anything about International Test >Instruments, or (fingers crossed) have a manual or other information >about this machine? > >Thanks in advance, >Stan

26 years, 7 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by edick＠idcomm.com

Actually, the ACB4070 is a SCSI<=>RLL bridge. It operates in a way which translates what is on the disk to cyl/hd/sector. However, it talks to the host in SCSI. In any case, I've seen implementations (back when they were all over the place) which worked very well, and I've seen others which worked very poorly. Insofar as the bridge controllers were the same, I have to assume that it was because of the BIOS code. I should have informed myself about that back then, but it didn't seem important enough. Take a look at additional comments below, plz. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, November 28, 1999 10:45 AM Subject: Re: CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ??? ><Yes, that part of the task is quite clear. However, if you have an ACB407 ><with, say, a 60 MB drive attached to its other side with some very specifi > >Ok thats a EDSI controller. The key question is do you talk to the bridge >board in blocks or CHS? Most SCSI disks (like my RZ22s are blocks) and >the drive logic does things to make that into CHS for it's internal use. Many ESDI drives work on a logical block basis just like the SCSI's. They have in many cases, in fact, dedicated processors on the drive logic to handle the individual tasks. I've got some old Miniscribe 9380's on which I can put either an ESDI or a SCSI logic board. If you compare the two boards, they seem to have most of the same logic. Only the host interface is different. There's a dedicated MPU to run the head carriage, one to manage the raw data flow into the drive-resident buffer memory, one to handle correction/detection of errors, (in the case of the SCSI only) and one to shuffle the data between the host and drive. The thing that makes SCSI outperform ESDI in most cases is that the SCSI leaves the host adapter alone except when it's transferring corrected data. The ESDI relies on the controller to handle all the correction, etc. In an environment, e.g. DEC's MSCP, where there are enough smarts to utilize command queueing and overlapped seeks, etc, SCSI outperforms the fastest ESDI by quite a little bit. I participated in a MicroVax implementation using two ESDI drives from Maxtor for a JPL-run Army/Air Force project. When Maxtor released their SCSI drive equivalent to the very famous 4380E, which they called the 3380, we took out the Emulex ESDI controller and replaced it with someone's SCSI adapter, half the size of the ESDI one, perhaps it was from Emulex as well, and put in two of the 3380's where the 4380's had been, and got WAY better () performance. The adapter cost less than half what the ESDI one cost, the 3380 drives were $1k lower in price, at $3375, while the 4380's cost, (get this!) $4380. It wasn't a tough choice. The JPL guys didn't like the report I had written about the performance gain which went along with the price cut. I was fired (briefly) from the project, and the switch to SCSI was made a few months later. ><number of cylinders, heads, and sectors, there's yet another task to handle ><It would really be slick to figure out some combination of partitioning, ><simple arithmetic, and some form of sleight of hand, to map the sector ><number and track number you get from the BDOS into the physical drive layou ><directly, then derive a parameter for the benefit of the SCSI side of the ><controller to munch while fetching the appropriate block. The DR-supplied > >For current SCSI and IDE I just map SPT at something binary and that set >tracks to a number I can easily work with. Since TRACK and SECTOR are both >16bit values (or can be) this makes it pretty easy. > >Watch out for track (one head) and cylinder (n many heads). It seems that if the BDOS is willing to call out both the track and the sector numbers in a range from 0..FFFFH, that means you only need to specify one sector per track if all you want is a logical block (physical sector) number. You then right-shift to scale for the physical sector size and then let the deblocking code wade through undoing that. FFFFH sectors is the 8MB max allowable capacity, is it not? The bridge controller translates from logical block numbers to cyl/hd/sec in some way they don't choose to tell us mere mortals. OTOH, using the BDOS to do more of the work, sorta, you can map tracks into logical blocks, and use the sector number to point into the logical block at the appropriate 128-byte portion. What I'd like to know is what works best. It's particularly important that this be small, since it's for CP/M 2.2. > >For something like the old Xybec bridge you working with raw CHS so >something like 16 physical (64 logical) sectors per track (what it >formatted to on a ST225) and 4 heads can be sent to the bdos as 256spt >(4h*16sectors*4logicalsectors per physcial block). That means there >will be 615 tracks. Very straightforward. This gets a bit messy if >there are say 17spt (512byte sectors) but then if there are 4 heads that >makes 68 physical sectors times 4 (128 byte logical sectors) or 272 sectors >per track... awkward but manageable (note the sector value is 9bits so the >bios will have to capture the full 16 bits passed in DE from the BDOS). > >Myself unless I'm working with floppies I give the bios table (disk >prarmeter block) numbers like 256spt and say 2047 blocks (8mb logical disk >with 4k allocation size). That means the concatination of TRACK and SECTOR >passed to the bios will be a pure binary number of the logical sector >(0-65535) the BDOS wants. I can then in the BIOS translate that to what >ever mapping I need. Generally for SCSI disks I add some number of blocks >to that to get the track offest for partitioning or system tracks. What do you find this does to your directory allocation scheme? I've never quite figured out how to optimize the block size so you don't either run out of directory entries or disk space far too soon. ><code (DEBLOCK.ASM) will handle the selection of the right 128-byte block ><easily enough. > >You can do better than DEBLOCK. If you have space caching larger that >physical blocks give a real performance boost. > ><Barry Watzman was kind enough to root through his BDOS listings to assure m ><that while the sample BIOS's in every case use only a byte for the sector ><number and track number, those are developed to 16-bits and passed as such ><in and from the BDOS and to the BIOS. This means one has to make no ><concessions to CP/M about contiguous block numbering. It gets ugly, though > >Barry's examples are practice VS what the BDOS actually does. The BDOS >passes 16 bit values for both track and sector. If the SPT happens to be >set to less that 257 then you can be assured the BIOS will recieve a 16 bit >sector with the upper byte of 00. Why not take advantage of the BDOS doing >this work? For all the BDOS cares SPT can be 1 or 65535! all it does is >crank out a different "track" value for those cases. > >Hint in the past I've use 4 spt! that means the sector number is an index >into a physical block for a 512byte sector (for deblocking). Track has the >relative block (0-16384) for me to crack into physical head, sector, track. >Or in the case of most SCSI disks the actual block I want from the drive. Yes, this is what I meant, above. >The one thing that is hard limit is there will be 65536 sectors MAXIMUM to a >logical disk under cpm 2.2. If you have P2DOS, ZRdos, Novados, CPM3 those >all increase by a minimum of 4 to 32mb and can be as large as 1gb for >logical disks (if you can live with a allocation size of 32k and have the >alloc table space). > ><if you want to fit those nice, neat numbers into a scheme supporting 7 ><heads, 1117 cylinders, and 26 sectors of 512 bytes into it. > >It will not fit as that is a 1Gb disk! Reality is the BDOS (V2.2) can >only deal with a 8mb partition of that (some 128 partitions would be >needed and CPM is never going to do all of them <limit of 16>). Also >while some of the CPM clones will address a disk this large the granularity >is really bad as they want to use 32k allocation blocks. It can be done >but you going to have to create a "different" bios that will allow ony of >the 16 logical drive to be assigned to any physical drive (or a partition on >one). Actually, it's a 99.25 MB disk. It's a miniscribe 3085 used with RLL. Since I have one of these lying about, and since the 4070 is an RLL bridge, I thought I'd use those numbers. >I've done this enough times to know what the book says, what people have >done (not all good either!) and what the BDOS really does (read the code!). >What the BDOS sends back is reflective of the Disk Parameter Block and those >numbers do not have to have any relationship to the physical device other >than some consistancy on total device size. Keep in mind the BDOS has no >concept of heads (you have to deal with that in the bios) and could care >less about the geometry of the disk as that is something the bios writer has >to decide. > >There are few hard rules for the CPM bios and a great deal of flexibility >if you care to take advantage. > >Allison >

26 years, 7 months

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Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?)

by aek＠spies.com

"IMHO, it makes little sense to retain media for washing-machine-sized disk drives if you don't retain the drives and maintain them in order to retain the value of the media. Hindsight is always 20/20, but wouldn't it make sense to archive data/software on an archival medium, likely, we hope, to remain useable over time, rather than to store it on what's intended for on-line storage, and is likely to become obsolete within a couple of years of when it was developed? " It makes perfect sense, and as soon as I can get a mechanism running to read the packs, the data will be archived. If it was simple to get this done, I would have finished the project years ago. Archiving data in a form that is "useable over time" is another matter entirely, and I'm sure it must have been the subject of many messages here in the past.

26 years, 7 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Yes, that part of the task is quite clear. However, if you have an ACB407 <with, say, a 60 MB drive attached to its other side with some very specifi Ok thats a EDSI controller. The key question is do you talk to the bridge board in blocks or CHS? Most SCSI disks (like my RZ22s are blocks) and the drive logic dows things to make that into CHS for it's internal use. <number of cylinders, heads, and sectors, there's yet another task to handle <It would really be slick to figure out some combination of partitioning, <simple arithmetic, and some form of sleight of hand, to map the sector <number and track number you get from the BDOS into the physical drive layou <directly, then derive a parameter for the benefit of the SCSI side of the <controller to munch while fetching the appropriate block. The DR-supplied For current SCSI and IDE I just map SPT at something binary and that set tracks to a number I can easily work with. Since TRACK and SECTOR are both 16bit values (or can be) this makes it pretty easy. Watch out for track (one head) and cylinder (n many heads). For something like the old Xybec bridge you working with raw CHS so something like 16 physical (64 logical) sectors per track (what it formatted to on a ST225) and 4 heads can be sent to the bdos as 256spt (4h*16sectors*4logicalsectors per physcial block). That means there will be 615 tracks. Very straightforward. This gets a bit messy if there are say 17spt (512byte sectors) but then if there are 4 heads that makes 68 physical sectors times 4 (128 byte logical sectors) or 272 sectors per track... awkward but manageable (note the sector value is 9bits so the bios will ahve to capture the full 16 bits passed in DE from the BDOS). Myself unless I'm working with floppies I give the bios table (disk prarmeter block) numbers like 256spt and say 2047 blocks (8mb logical disk with 4k allocation size). That means the concatination of TRACK and SECTOR passed to the bios will be a pure binary number of the logical sector (0-65535) the BDOS wants. I can then in the BIOS translate that to what ever mapping I need. Generally for SCSI disks I add some number of blocks to that to get the track offest for partitioning or system tracks. <code (DEBLOCK.ASM) will handle the selection of the right 128-byte block <easily enough. You can do better than DEBLOCK. If you have space caching larger that physical blocks give a real performance boost. <Barry Watzman was kind enough to root through his BDOS listings to assure m <that while the sample BIOS's in every case use only a byte for the sector <number and track number, those are developed to 16-bits and passed as such <in and from the BDOS and to the BIOS. This means one has to make no <concessions to CP/M about contiguous block numbering. It gets ugly, though Barry's examples are practice VS what the BDOS actually does. The BDOS passes 16 bit values for both track and sector. If the SPT happens to be set to less that 257 then you can be assured the BIOS will recieve a 16 bit sector with the upper byte of 00. Why not take advantage of the BDOS doing this work? For all the BDOS cares SPT can be 1 or 65535! all it does is crank out a different "track" value for those cases. Hint in the past I've use 4 spt! that means the sector number is an index into a physical block for a 512byte sector (for deblocking). Track has the relative block (0-16384) for me to crack into physical head, sector, track. Or in the case of most SCSI disks the actual block I want from the drive. The one thing that is hard limit is there will be 65536 sectors MAXIMUM to a logical disk under cpm 2.2. If you have P2DOS, ZRdos, Novados, CPM3 those all increase by a minimum of 4 to 32mb and can be as large as 1gb for logical disks (if you can live with a allocation size of 32k and have the alloc table space). <if you want to fit those nice, neat numbers into a scheme supporting 7 <heads, 1117 cylinders, and 26 sectors of 512 bytes into it. It will not fit as that is a 1Gb disk! Reality is the BDOS (V2.2) can only deal with a 8mb partition of that (some 128 partitions would be needed and CPM is never going to do all of them <limit of 16>). Also while some of the CPM clones will address a disk this large the granularity is really bad as they want to use 32k allocation blocks. It can be done but you going to have to create a "different" bios that will allow ony of the 16 logical drive to be assigned to any physical drive (or a partition on one). I've done this enough times to know what the book says, what people have done (not all good either!) and what the BDOS really does (read the code!). What the BDOS sends back is reflective of the Disk Parameter Block and those numbers do not have to have any relationship to the physical device other than some consistancy on total device size. Keep in mind the BDOS has no concept of heads (you have to deal with that in the bios) and could care less about the geometry of the disk as that is something the bios writer has to decide. There are few hard rules for the CPM bios and a great deal of flexibility if you care to take advantage. Allison

26 years, 7 months

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Dayna File

by jcountry＠seidata.com

Did you ever find one/data or manual/ or better yet the software to make them work? I've got two of them here (one 3.5/5.25 the other dsdd 5.25/dshd 5.25) but only one power supply and no software. They show on the scsi bus to scsi probe, but won't mount a disk to the desktop...I suppose I need software for that? I find a site on the dayna ftp that has versions of the driver...but they are password protected, so they are of no use to me, and their tech support hasn't answered. All ideas/help appreciated! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Home | Collection > > > > Software | Mailing Lists > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > [Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index] > > Re: Dayna File II > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > * To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > * Subject: Re: Dayna File II > * From: jruschme(a)hiway1.exit109.com > * Date: Thu, 25 Mar 99 17:20:57 +0000 > * Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > * Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > <pre> > I found a couple of these surplus. They're external 5 1/4" floppy drives > and appear to have a SCSI connector. Does anyone know what system they're > for? Are they SCSI? What voltage and polarity is the external power > supply? Any details appreciated. > </pre> > > They are SCSI and with the appropriate software would allow one to read > PC-format disks on a Mac. Not sure about the adapter, but I *think* one > can still find the software at: > > ftp://ftp.dayna.com/Pub/Macintosh/DaynaFile/ > > A couple of notes: 1) They've been discontinued for quite a while, so I > don't know how well it will work with newer OS releases. 2) Apparently, > they equipped them with different types of drives as I've seen ones with > 360K, 1.2MB, and even 1.44MB floppy drives. > > I have to confess that I wouldn't mind finding a cheap one to play > with. Unfortunately, the ones I've seen always seem to be out of my > range. > > <<<john>>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > * Prev by Date: Re: Floppy drive Jumper question > * Next by Date: Re: Open Houses (was Re: Museums) > * Prev by thread: Re: Dayna File II > * Next by thread: Dayna File II > * Index(es): > o Date > o Thread > > > > > Created by: Kevan Heydon on Thursday, 25-Mar-1999 09:36:00 PST

26 years, 7 months

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[OT] They're restarting Chernobyl?

by cem14＠cornell.edu

I know, bad form to reply to my own post, but I kept on reading the report and found more specific stuff: At 12:46 AM 11/28/99 -0500, I wrote: >>From the numbers quoted, a little over 10000 cases of thyroid cancer >(which has a 10% mortality rate), mostly in children, can be blamed on >Chernobyl. The exact figure until 1996 was actually 800 people in the three most exposed countries. Projections of excess cancers resulting in death over the lifetime of all those exposed have been revised downwards continuously. They are currently at about 7000, but the lack of incidence of leukemia (compared to what they expected) is making people to further downgrade the expected death toll. Of course, many people venture figures; Greenpeace estimates that the death toll will eventually be 30000, but most cancer epidemiologists disagree, according to the report.

26 years, 7 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by foxnhare＠jps.net

> Subject: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? > Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 23:48:11 -0800 > From: Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> > To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > > I am just wondering what some of us collect that we consider the screwiest > ourselves. For example, for reasons I can't fathom I have started > collecting Apple logo AC power cords, and have a couple dozen of various > styles now. I never think of my collections screwey, but other (mundane souls) may have problems with that. Here are my top must-grabs: * Commodore stuff (Micros, Monitors, Literature, am kinda looking for a C= filing cabinet now.) * Wierd Movies (Plan 9 from Outer Space, Dr. Caligari, stuff by Troma and other videos of 'unique' quality.) mainstream is getting too gross and violent. * Computer related books and movies (like reading good computer history and tales in fiction; though nowadays it is hard to find 'good' stuff in all the crud being made.) * BASIC program/programming books, mainly 8-Bit BASIC stuff (I was surprised to find a single player chess game in BASIC in one). -- 01000011 01001111 01001101 01001101 01001111 01000100 01001111 01010010 01000101 Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (209) 754-1363 300-2400 baud Commodore 8-bit page at: http://www.jps.net/foxnhare/commodore.html 01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01010101 01010100 01000101 01010010 01010011

26 years, 7 months

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[OT] They're restarting Chernobyl?

by classiccmp＠mrynet.com

> At 11:48 AM 11/27/99 -0800, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > >Slashdot has a link to an MSNBC story about the Russians restarting reactor > >#3 at the Chernobyl plant in the Ukraine. They need the power but can't > >afford a new reactor. > > The reactor that had the fire was (and is) irretrievable. The new reactor > was one that was in process to go on line before the disaster and has never > been run. > > There are several interesting reports about Chernobyl but perhaps the one > most sobering is that during its time of operation, _including_ the > meltdown, it has generated more power and killed fewer people and done less > harm to the environment than the coal fired plants in Michigan. The damage > those plants have done include dumping so much sulphur and other chemicals > into the air that they have killed vast tracts of forest and made some > lakes and streams completely devoid of life. If you add the number of > people killed in coal mining accidents and getting black lung disease the > numbers are even worse. > > Consider it flame bait if you like, but if you run the numbers this country > would be a lot better off (fewer people killed generating the power, fewer > natural resources destroyed) with a nuclear power infrastructure than it > would be with a fossil fuel powered one. The issue is not one of nuclear power vs fossil fuel (or otherwise). It is one of mismanagement, disregard, spitefulness (towards the IMF and others, in paraphrase, "If you don't pay us to shut it down, we won't."), and the continued use of poor technology and less-than-marginal safeguards. The recommendations and subsequent agreement in decision to shut the plant down was for safety reasons. It was not simply because its sister plant failed that it was shut down--the fundamental design for operation and containment are flawed. It is sad you compare this Soviet-era technology to that of the U.S. or even other modern installations. The number of casualties in Ukraine alone are in the thousands for the first months after the accident there. Well over 150,000 people have now died as a result. This from a single incident. The numbers are staggering. There are still tens of thousands of people suffering and dying from thyroid cancer. There are towns for a hundred miles surrounding the plant that have been evacuated and are now off-limits. The radiation is still there. The radiation is still killing people. The radiation will not go away soon. Let's not confuse a world-wide coal-fueled industry (dare you imply the U.S. of being alone here) to the Chernobyl installation which has proven design flaws. Whether the sister reactor had been brought online or not (which I won't bother going into, since your information is wrong there as well), the fact remains: they are of the same design and the same generation. The reason the reactor is being brought online is political. It is not one of dire necessity. It is purely political, and economic as well. Here again the callousness towards humanity comes into play. The Soviet Legacy prevails. People, if you need to, search the web. Get educated, or at least informed. The world has forgotten the true nature and impact of the Chernobyl accident. These innocent dead and dying people don't deserve to be forgotten and this should not be repeated by arrogance. I believe the simple act of taking just a few minutes to type into a web search engine, "chernobyl dead," will elighten people much more than what they think they know about the issue. The Western press is infamous for its minimal reporting, and then only when the subject is current, topical, and fantastic enough to gain readership. You simply must find out from more than one source and without the Media Fantasy bias. Respectfully, Scott G. Taylor -- Scott G. Akmentins-Taylor InterNet: staylor(a)mrynet.com MRY Systems staylor(a)mrynet.lv (Skots Gregorijs Akmentins-Teilors -- just call me "Skots") ----- Labak miris neka sarkans -----

26 years, 7 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by edick＠idcomm.com

Yes, that part of the task is quite clear. However, if you have an ACB4070 with, say, a 60 MB drive attached to its other side with some very specific number of cylinders, heads, and sectors, there's yet another task to handle. It would really be slick to figure out some combination of partitioning, simple arithmetic, and some form of sleight of hand, to map the sector number and track number you get from the BDOS into the physical drive layout directly, then derive a parameter for the benefit of the SCSI side of the controller to munch while fetching the appropriate block. The DR-supplied code (DEBLOCK.ASM) will handle the selection of the right 128-byte block easily enough. Barry Watzman was kind enough to root through his BDOS listings to assure me that while the sample BIOS's in every case use only a byte for the sector number and track number, those are developed to 16-bits and passed as such in and from the BDOS and to the BIOS. This means one has to make no concessions to CP/M about contiguous block numbering. It gets ugly, though, if you want to fit those nice, neat numbers into a scheme supporting 7 heads, 1117 cylinders, and 26 sectors of 512 bytes into it. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 9:40 PM Subject: Re: CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ??? > ><It would be interesting to see SOMETHING for the 33C93, but what puzzles m ><more than anything else is the question of how to cook up a quick and dirt ><translation from the CP/M drive/track/sector specification to a logical ><block structure as is used on SCSI/SASI devices. CP/M 2.2 is so much nice > >This is real easy, first remember you going to be limited to 8mb unless you >used something like P2DOS or ZRdos. > >With that said and done... > >This means there will be 65536 sectors to a logical disk (CP/M-80 V2). > > SPT set that to some handy number like 64, that means tracks will be > expressed as 64 sector chunks. > > That means there has to be 1024 tracks. This will be the bios passed > numbers for track and sector. > > Of course thats logical sectors (128bytes) this will have to be grouped > 2 or 4 per physical sector (256 or 512bytes). Deblocking will be done > locally on the host and all reads and writes will be at the disk physical > level. > > Offset (reserved tracks) is sized as logical tracks (what ever sector > amount has been set up) > > of course there is more work but those are the clues. > >By using binary sizes for sectors, them math to concatenate tracks and >sectors into "blocks" is a matter of a few right or left shifts. > ><if you have a maximal TPA which won't happen if one's using table lookups ><and stuff in place of computations to determine which block contains what ><the OS is in sector ss of track tt on drive x. You see, if this is ><implemented on a bridge controller which talks SCSI to the system, but whos ><drives are ST-506 interfaced, there are good ways and bad ways to allocate ><blocks. It's simple enough to do one layer, but if you have to deal with ><two, how you do one will have substantial impact on how the other works out > >This is hard to follow but the bios does not have to be large and the real >space grabber is the ALLOC vector. If the system has banking even a 4k or >16k bank in low memory can easily swallow the various host buffers and >Allocation storage which can be large. > >Allison >

26 years, 7 months

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GRiDcase batteries

by diplodocus1＠worldnet.att.net

I don't know if this has been already mentioned on this thread, since I have just discovered this site, but I operate my 1520 from a 12 V battery on my sailboat without any apparent problem. I've used it mainly to get radio weatherfaxes. I just bought a 22 mm female plug from Radio Shack, wired it to the 12 V power supply and stuck it into the jack on the back of the GRiD (next to the battery pack). One trhing that bothers me when receiving faxes is the screen going dark after a fes seconds. Anybody knows how to disable this battery-saving function ? (which I don't need since the 1520 consumes only 1 Ah, which is peanuts for a 100 A deep cycle battery). john

26 years, 7 months

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[OT] They're restarting Chernobyl?

by edick＠idcomm.com

I agree, fundamentally, with what you say. I just don't see how letting what's essentially becoming a third-world nation after fifty years of being a technological leader, freeze because it displeases US for them to run their flawed reactor, for which they've already paid, is gong to help anyone, especially since they can't just build a replacement with any technology. Surviving to get there is more important than having a pristine "there" to get. It doesn't matter if we're all surely going to die if we're already dead. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [OT] They're restarting Chernobyl? ><It's just a different outlook, doncha know . . . they're looking at a reall ><cold winter for which they need the power to survive. If they don't ><survive, it's not going to help them that their grandchildren will have a ><cleaner planet, since their grandchildren will freeze too. > >Well, what you don't know. Chernobyl is 4 plants, one crashed due to >operator error. It was a hell of a mess that will take a long time to >disappear. In the meantime people are cold and hungry. Maybe it's not >right but, neither is sick people. Right now that country is trying to >make it as something other than communist I think they have enough right >at that. > >Allison >

26 years, 7 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<It would be interesting to see SOMETHING for the 33C93, but what puzzles m <more than anything else is the question of how to cook up a quick and dirt <translation from the CP/M drive/track/sector specification to a logical <block structure as is used on SCSI/SASI devices. CP/M 2.2 is so much nice This is real easy, first remember you going to be limited to 8mb unless you used something like P2DOS or ZRdos. With that said and done... This means there will be 65536 sectors to a logical disk (CP/M-80 V2). SPT set that to some handy number like 64, that means tracks will be expressed as 64 sector chunks. That means there has to be 1024 tracks. This will be the bios passed numbers for track and sector. Of course thats logical sectors (128bytes) this will have to be grouped 2 or 4 per physical sector (256 or 512bytes). Deblocking will be done locally on the host and all reads and writes will be at the disk physical level. Offset (reserved tracks) is sized as logical tracks (what ever sector amount has been set up) of course there is more work but those are the clues. By using binary sizes for sectors, them math to concatenate tracks and sectors into "blocks" is a matter of a few right or left shifts. <if you have a maximal TPA which won't happen if one's using table lookups <and stuff in place of computations to determine which block contains what <the OS is in sector ss of track tt on drive x. You see, if this is <implemented on a bridge controller which talks SCSI to the system, but whos <drives are ST-506 interfaced, there are good ways and bad ways to allocate <blocks. It's simple enough to do one layer, but if you have to deal with <two, how you do one will have substantial impact on how the other works out This is hard to follow but the bios does not have to be large and the real space grabber is the ALLOC vector. If the system has banking even a 4k or 16k bank in low memory can easily swallow the various host buffers and Allocation storage which can be large. Allison

26 years, 7 months

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hey, have old computer stuff for sale, have to make some room here

by Maddog1331＠aol.com

Hey all, I have a bunch of old comptuer stuff that I need to move to make room here in the apartment...argh....I have some up for auction on EBAY, you can look at those auctions if you wish at: http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&u… id=maddog1331&include=0&since=-1&sort=2&rows=25 Here is the other stuff I have here at the house, not yet up for auction. Please let me know if any of you are interested. Here is the stuff that I have, sorry, its in no particular order, and also it is just one item unless otherwise specified. All this stuff is untested as of yet, so if you are interested in anything here, I will test it for you if I can :-) Also any drives listed, except Amdek, are the big 5.25...the Amdeks are a weird size drive, like takes 3 in disks or something. Another thing, these are in order by what box I put them in...lol...it was a quick easy filing system...had to get the stuff sorted as best I could. Box 1 Intellivision II Atari 800 3 Atari 825 4 Unknown Floppy Disk Drives U-SCI Drive Rana Systems 1000 Drive Mirco Stuffer Printer Buffer Amdesk III unit, has no drives in it. 4 Atari 1020 Joystick controller thingy, its a Wico Command Control Tandy Joystick 2 Printer replacement parts, I think for the small Atari printer...these are metal bar looking things Atari 822 Atari 1027 Box 2 Atari 1029 Atari 820 2 Atari 65 XE Atari 800 XL (says 256k Rambo EX on a home made label on it...an upgrade maybe?) Atari 835 2 Big Blue Printers Percom Data Drive Epson Letter Jet Printer Amdek Amdisk III Dual Floppy Atari 1050 Alphacom Printer Atari 825 Atari CX85 Keypad Box 3 Atari 810 Amdek Amdisk III, no drives in it Universal Data Systems Model 212LP Atari 1027 4 Atari 1020 Percom Data Drive Unknown Dual Floppy Atari 800 2 Motherboards, I think...not sure what they go to...one is huge, the other is small. Power Supply, I think....its a board type thingy..dunno Replacement Keyboards: 2 510 ASCII, 6 other Various ones, Atari maybe? Some still in shrinkwrap. Box 4 TRS 80 Disk Video Interface Commodore 128 Radio Shack TRS 80 Color Computer 2 Atari Portfolio Boxed Smart Parallell Interface Model HPC-101. Box is rough, but all looks to be there Casadapter - Casette interface for all Atari computers (or so it says) De Re Atari Anno Domini MCMLXXXI: A Guide to effective programming for Atari 400-800 computers Boxed Star Raiders w/touchpad, for Atari 2600 Madness & the Minotaur TRS-80 Casette 2 Atari joystick sketchpad casette programs, casette only 16k Ram Board, Atari? not sure Parallell Printer Cable for Atari 850 Boxed, but box is rough Boxed Rampage (rough) 3.5 disk 2 Ribbons for Diablo Hytype II Daisywheel Printer TI 99 Speech Synthesizer NCR Keyboard Apricot Keyboard (looks like its remote controlled even, has a place for batteries) ApricotF2 Dual Disk drive, this is the system unit maybe? I am not sure Riteman LQ Printer CypherBowl Atari 16K casette game in Box, looks to be completel Book: Writing in the Computer age, 1983 Plotter Pens, Injector ink, various 24 Unknown casettes Spectra Strip Ribbon Cable (small box, but heavy as heck! Did they make these out of lead or something?! lol) Atari Personal Financial Management System Manual ( its Heavy also) 20+ Casette tapes, Some from Magatari Magazine, dunno about the others tho, but there are programs on one side of them according to the labels...they say Issue 44 or whatever number on the other side..I am thinking they are maybe all Magatari Magazine issues on casette, maybe they just got fancy with the labels in the later years..I think that there are Magatari casettes 1-12 in here, plus the others. Book-Executive Computing Loose stuff Boxed Riteman LQ Printer, looks new Boxed Alphacom 81 80 Column Printer, Also looks good. I also have various monitors, but dont have them stored here though...as soon as I can get to where they are I will get the info on them...I think 2 are Tandy monitors. Also, I have 2 fax machines, and a really really HUGE dot matrix printer stored with the monitors...I will go through and catalog that stuff as soon as I can. Mark

26 years, 7 months

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PDP11 spotted today in Sunnyvale CA for SALE

by aek＠spies.com

">Weird Stuff Warehouse still exists??? Indeed they do. They're one of my regular annual scrounge-stops. They've long since moved from their original location across from Fly's, but they're still there. " A bit of history.. Many years ago, Richard Anderson (currently RA Enterprises) met an engineer that was just left Shugart named Chuck Schuetz and started Weird Stuff in Milpitas (next to Atari Games). It was an amazing place, problem is they wanted too much for most of the stuff, and it ended up getting sold for metal scrap after sitting around for months. The city was hassling them for running a retail operation in the area, so they did a HUGE downsizing, moved some stuff to a small warehouse in Sunnyvale, and set up shop at the place on Laurence Expr. Richard got out of the partnership around the time they moved, and started another place called A-Z Electronics on Bascom with Lila Zinter, who mostly deals in office stuff. A-Z moved to Milpitas into the same building that eventually became Surplus Stuff (Curtis Trading, mostly different folks except for Ron, the tech who used to work at Weird Stuff). Richard started a different place, called RA Enterprises, which was on De La Cruz Blvd in Santa Clara until a year ago, when it moved to Walsh (about a mile away). Latest word is Richard has sold the place to some folks working for him, and is going to retire (well, he says he's just going to broker test equipment now..) after doing this for over 25 years. ..oh, almost forgot about the little place Richard used to have in San Jose when he met Chuck... There are lots of little stories like this in the valley..

26 years, 7 months

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[OT] They're restarting Chernobyl?

by edick＠idcomm.com

That's no secret, by the way. A few months ago public TV had a long program dealing with the misconceptions about nuclear power generation and how the press distorted all the "facts" surrounding 3-mile island and it's incident back in the '70's. They even stated that the dirt right around the nuclear power plant had the lowest radioactivity of any area within some substantial radius, since that's a coal-bearing area and normal ambient radiation levels are actually quite high. What's really important here, in the U.S. is that you have to get the GOV to keep the industry straight, but not get into the industry's pocket. The same sloppy work and corruption that caused the Chernobyl problem is what scares most of those who follow the truths of the situation. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Carlos Murillo-Sanchez <cem14(a)cornell.edu> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [OT] They're restarting Chernobyl? >Chuck McManis wrote: >> >> Consider it flame bait if you like, but if you run the numbers this country >> would be a lot better off (fewer people killed generating the power, fewer >> natural resources destroyed) with a nuclear power infrastructure than it >> would be with a fossil fuel powered one. >> >> --Chuck > >and, if you consider the possibility of catastrophic climate >change from global warming resulting by past and >present burning (the blame falling disproportionately on the US), >the number of casualties might be in the billions, due to >starvation. I know, nobody really knows what _could_ happen, >but nobody can deny that the possibility exists either. Well, >maybe some people deny it, but by and large they are linked to >the oil companies. > >To keep this on topic, I have been comparing daily electric load >profiles from 40, 30 and 20 years ago to the present ones. >Starting 40 years ago, profiles became bimodal (one peak at >11:00 AM, another (larger) around 5-6:00PM in winter, or 8:00PM >in the summer). So, turning the lights >on at home after work (and for preparing dinner) meant the >largest load. This second peak slowly evolved to an earlier >hour (2:00PM-4:00PM), while the earlier peak grew to a size >comparable to that of the second one in winter, and only slightly >smaller in the summer. Only two factors at work here: computers >and air conditioning. > >-- >Carlos Murillo-Sanchez email: cem14(a)cornell.edu >428 Phillips Hall, Electrical Engineering Department >Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853

26 years, 7 months

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Wow, great way to get pictures of boards!

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

I was just wanting to make some notes on a picture of one of the Omnibus boards I'm trying to troubleshoot. I don't know if anyone has tried this, but I just carefully placed a Omnibus board on my scanner, and scanned it in. Had to adjust the brightness and contrast of the resulting image, but the results are fantastic! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 7 months

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OT: Sony VAIO

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

This is fairly off topic but I just had to share it with a group that would appreciate a nice hack. On my new Sony VAIO laptop the wall paper is a picture of water with the VAIO logo floating above it (reflecting in the water). When I turned it on the first time it was a really cool night scene with stars and everything. When I turned it on this afternoon the scene was filled with virtual sunlight! The picture is synchronized with the clock to show the correct lighting based on the local time. Very clever... --Chuck

26 years, 7 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I haven't heard about the bugs, though the device has been pretty much <obsolete since WD stopped selling chips and went to making drives instead. <If you have drivers for the 5380, I would appreciate a look at them as well <I've never looked at a BIOS using SCSI or SASI, both of which are <block-oriented rather than being cyl/hd/sector based. The best 5380 bios out there is the AmproLB, check the FTP sites first as wrapping them up to send them is a bit of a pain on this crate. Another systems that did SASI/SCSI is the VISUAL 1050. Of course the 5380 code is in Linux and MINIX sources, maybe 33C93 as well. Allison

26 years, 7 months

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[OT] They're restarting Chernobyl?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<It's just a different outlook, doncha know . . . they're looking at a reall <cold winter for which they need the power to survive. If they don't <survive, it's not going to help them that their grandchildren will have a <cleaner planet, since their grandchildren will freeze too. Well, what you don't know. Chernobyl is 4 plants, one crashed due to operator error. It was a hell of a mess that will take a long time to disappear. In the meantime people are cold and hungry. Maybe it's not right but, neither is sick people. Right now that country is trying to make it as something other than communist I think they have enough right at that. Allison

26 years, 7 months

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[OT] They're restarting Chernobyl?

by edick＠idcomm.com

Actually, the worst damage possible has already occurred. If it happens again, it won't do much additional damage, aside from loss of in-plant life. The surrounding area is already lethally contaminated. A fossil-fuel powered plant would create as much environmental damage over the six or seven years between major incidents, so I don't see this as a major risk to us. Now, if I lived nearby, I might feel differently. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Daniel A. Seagraves <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [OT] They're restarting Chernobyl? >[Nukes are safer] > >True. Nukes are safer and better in the long run that fossil fuel stuff. >It's just the unknowns of nukes and the complexity that boggles people. > >Imagine me in charge of a nuke plant, with my attitdue about stuff. >(Namely, if it don't work, fuck with it until it does) >I bet that would cause some trouble. (What happens if I open this valve? >let's find out... *BOOM* > >Could be worse. Imagine a microsoftie there. ^_^ >(Meltdown imminent? This don't sound good. Reboot it!) > >Ignore my typoes and incoherency here. ^_^ I'm in a funny mood today. > >(The russians: "Okay, is #3 ready? Yes? Okay, boot that sucker!" > [Image: Windows CE logo] "Where do you want to glow today?") > >-------

26 years, 7 months

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PDP11 spotted today in Sunnyvale CA for SALE

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Sat, 27 Nov 1999 09:34:39 -0500 (EST) rhudson(a)ix.netcom.com writes: >Wierd Stuff has a PDP 11 in their "AS-IS" room, CPU with 3 disk drives >on a pallet, with the >backdoor badly dented. They are asking 500 for it. The start switch >and one other have been >broken. *Snort*. SOunds like a ripoff to me, but typical of how stuff is priced in that joint. They put these really unreasonable price tags on stuff, and when they don't sell, instead of lowering the price, they pitch it! I watched a whole pallet load of 8" FDD's for example trashed because no one wanted to pay $25 apiece. But then, theres this stuff that they totally don't have a clue about, that's like, *really* valuable, they sell at give-away prices. Wierd. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 7 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by edick＠idcomm.com

OOOHH! N-scale! Nice stuff, even for the apartment dweller. Dick -----Original Message----- From: LordTyran <a2k(a)one.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 9:20 PM Subject: Re: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? >Trains. My Grandfather used to do quite a bit of traveling after he >retired (delivering automobiles I believe). Whatever he saw a model >store, he'd pop in and buy a few cars or an engine or two. He never put >them together or told my Grandma about it. When he was dying of cancer he >gave them to me. I've gone through some of them.. must be about 15 N-scale >engines, 100+ cars, plus all the Lionel stuff I haven't gone through yet. >Also lots of buildings and little people. > >Oh, and to keep this semi-on topic: Every times I typed the word "cars" >I automatically typed "card" the first time ;) > >Kevin > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > >"It's you isn't it? THE BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL!" > >"In the flesh, on the phone and in your account..." > >-- BOFH #3 > >

26 years, 7 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by edick＠idcomm.com

It would be interesting to see SOMETHING for the 33C93, but what puzzles me more than anything else is the question of how to cook up a quick and dirty translation from the CP/M drive/track/sector specification to a logical block structure as is used on SCSI/SASI devices. CP/M 2.2 is so much nicer if you have a maximal TPA which won't happen if one's using table lookups and stuff in place of computations to determine which block contains what the OS is in sector ss of track tt on drive x. You see, if this is implemented on a bridge controller which talks SCSI to the system, but whose drives are ST-506 interfaced, there are good ways and bad ways to allocate blocks. It's simple enough to do one layer, but if you have to deal with two, how you do one will have substantial impact on how the other works out. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 3:43 PM Subject: Re: CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ??? > > >--- Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> wrote: >> I've heard the 33C93 is a really buggy chip. > >Early versions have their (well documented) problems. Commodode elected to >use the WD33C93 with the autobooting SCSI cards - A2091 and up including >the A500 slap-on A590 (either SCSI _or_ XT-IDE drives would work on it owing >to Commodore's custom controller chip between the Amiga and the 33C93) and >on the motherboard of the Amiga 3000. > >The wisdom in the Amiga arena is that even though C= shipped rev 02 and >rev 04 chips, you need the last version ever produced (rev 08?) to take >advantage of proper disconnect/reconnect operations and to have a full >7-device chain. The older chips work OK if you have one or two disk >devices, but have problems with four or five disks, a CD-ROM and a tape >drive. > > >There is example code for the WD33C93, not for CP/M, but for (Net|Free)BSD >on the Amiga. > >Also, if anyone is looking for a few rev 02 chips, I have a tube of them >that I'm keeping as Amiga spares. I could let a couple go, depending on >how much over shipping I'm offered. > >-ethan > > > >===== >Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >Please send all replies to > > erd(a)iname.com >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. >Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

26 years, 7 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<>Has anybody got a CP/M-80 BIOS driver example for the WD33C93 SCSI <>controller? I'd surely like to look at one or two. Format utility stuff <>would be good, too. The only SCSI drivers I've seen for CPM-80 are for discrete (SASI) and NCR 5380 chips. I've heard the 33C93 is a really buggy chip. Allison

26 years, 7 months

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Grrrrrr (IBM 5288 MANUALS and FDDS available)

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

> Most others aren't worth the cost of shipping. >" > >Fine, but if you scrap a machine, try to at least get the documentation and >software to someone that can use it. Many times these items are separatated >from the computers as they're being disposed of. These items are much smaller >and are also practical to ship, and are vital to restoring the other machines >around the world that haven't been parted out. I fully agree Is what I've made with a IBM 5288 Since the machine was already dismantled, I've picked up its manual and the 8'' FDDS. In case anyone has the machine and needs them, please write and I'll be happy to ship them. Ciao Riccardo Romagnoli Riccardo Romagnoli Classic Computer Collector <chemif(a)mbox.queen.it> I-47100 Forl?

26 years, 7 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> wrote: > I've heard the 33C93 is a really buggy chip. Early versions have their (well documented) problems. Commodode elected to use the WD33C93 with the autobooting SCSI cards - A2091 and up including the A500 slap-on A590 (either SCSI _or_ XT-IDE drives would work on it owing to Commodore's custom controller chip between the Amiga and the 33C93) and on the motherboard of the Amiga 3000. The wisdom in the Amiga arena is that even though C= shipped rev 02 and rev 04 chips, you need the last version ever produced (rev 08?) to take advantage of proper disconnect/reconnect operations and to have a full 7-device chain. The older chips work OK if you have one or two disk devices, but have problems with four or five disks, a CD-ROM and a tape drive. There is example code for the WD33C93, not for CP/M, but for (Net|Free)BSD on the Amiga. Also, if anyone is looking for a few rev 02 chips, I have a tube of them that I'm keeping as Amiga spares. I could let a couple go, depending on how much over shipping I'm offered. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

26 years, 7 months

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PDP-8 toggle-in diags (was Re: LET'S (old topic)/and PDP-8I code/update)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: > >> I am going to put up a bunch of little programs on my webpage so folks > >> can test devices without trying to get a paper tape up... > > Your welcome. I think they will help a lot of people out as *most./all* of > the 8 has to be running to get MAINDECs fed in.I will have the programs up > on the page by Monday morning. I look forward to it. > I am having to restore PDP-8s *really* fast > so I have to be able to find problems quickly. I'm back in the swing myself... I worked on the -8/e for several hours last night (and gave a tour to friends). I even powered up a couple of -8/L's to see how they were (mis) behaving. One has a bad M220 card (can't load one of the MA bits from the switch register, but incrementing the address does work), neither works perfectly (and a third is sans core :-( ) I'm taking my Tek 465 and a TTL/CMOS IC tester out to the computer barn to further my efforts. I built a cable with a DIP header on one end and a DIP test clip on the other so I can quickly test M-series flip chip (at least the simple ones like the M111, M113, M216, etc.) I have to scope out the complicated ones like the M706/M707 I/O cards, the M220 register cards, etc. > The most important useful <1 page programs I have had to write (over the > past day) are: > tty continuous output generator (character selected on SR) Ah... I just wrote one of those... BTW, your mem test program has a typo... the 7064 instruction (LAS) should be 7604. It threw me for a while until I could get things sqare. I'm still re-learning machine code. I didn't notice that 7064 _couldn't_ be the LAS instruction (wrong group). My TTY banger has an extra feature for the -8/e - it counts characters in the MQ register: 0200 7604 CLA OSR ; Clear AC and OR in switch register 0201 6046 TLS ; Output char and clear transmit flag 0202 6041 TSF ; Skip on TTY flag 0203 5202 JMP 0202 ; Jump back repeat TTY flag test 0204 7521 SWP ; Exchange AC and MQ 0205 7001 IAC ; Increment AC 0206 7521 SWP ; Exchange AC and MQ again 0207 5200 JMP 0200 ; Repeat entire exercise While I'm on the topic of ONMIBUS TTY cards, does the M8650 *require* hardware handshake? -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

26 years, 7 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by edick＠idcomm.com

I haven't heard about the bugs, though the device has been pretty much obsolete since WD stopped selling chips and went to making drives instead. If you have drivers for the 5380, I would appreciate a look at them as well. I've never looked at a BIOS using SCSI or SASI, both of which are block-oriented rather than being cyl/hd/sector based. I guess it's time I learned how that works . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 2:39 PM Subject: Re: CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ??? ><>Has anybody got a CP/M-80 BIOS driver example for the WD33C93 SCSI ><>controller? I'd surely like to look at one or two. Format utility stuff ><>would be good, too. > >The only SCSI drivers I've seen for CPM-80 are for discrete (SASI) and >NCR 5380 chips. > >I've heard the 33C93 is a really buggy chip. > >Allison >

26 years, 7 months

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[OT] They're restarting Chernobyl?

by edick＠idcomm.com

It's just a different outlook, doncha know . . . they're looking at a really cold winter for which they need the power to survive. If they don't survive, it's not going to help them that their grandchildren will have a cleaner planet, since their grandchildren will freeze too. There's this old military addage, that "where you sit determines what you see." It certainly applies here. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Classic Computer Mailing List <classiccmp(a)mrynet.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 1:06 PM Subject: Re: [OT] They're restarting Chernobyl? >> Slashdot has a link to an MSNBC story about the Russians restarting reactor >> #3 at the Chernobyl plant in the Ukraine. They need the power but can't >> afford a new reactor. >> >> Sounds like a fun place to work, eh? ^_^ > >Yobanoye sovetskoe naslesdtvo. > >The Ukranian, Byelorussian and Russian governments continue to be engaged >in their Soviet legacy -- Absolute lack of concern for the environment, >the people, and their neighbours. You can follow this legacy on the >RFE/RL (Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty) web page and mailing list >at http://www.rferl.org. > >regards, > -skots >-- >Scott G. Akmentins-Taylor InterNet: staylor(a)mrynet.com >MRY Systems staylor(a)mrynet.lv > (Skots Gregorijs Akmentins-Teilors -- just call me "Skots") > ----- Labak miris neka sarkans -----

26 years, 7 months

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PDP11 spotted today in Sunnyvale CA for SALE

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Sat, 27 Nov 1999 08:58:54 -0500 "John B" <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> writes: >Weird Stuff Warehouse still exists??? > >I ordered our SMD-SCSI adaptec board there (back in 90).... everyone >was >laughing at me when I put the order through Supply and Services. Back then, they were a good supplier. We used to get our ACB-4000's, 4070's, and 4525's from them. While I was living in San Jose a few years back, they started carrying mostly peecee stuff. I got boring to go there after that. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 7 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Sat, 27 Nov 1999 04:30:26 -0500 Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> writes: >On Sat, 27 Nov 1999, B'ichela wrote: >>On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com wrote: >> >>> as for myself, beer cans and antique outboard motors 1960 and >earlier. >>> >> I collect old Records and 8 track tapes I activly listen to >both >>formats. > > Ok, *now* I'm scared. ;) Be *very* scared. I do the same thing. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 7 months

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DG house numbered part xref/help with what *looks* like a mux...

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Pat of this is prompted by a part (not *yet* suspect) I ran >across on a Nova 800 CPU1 board. From the prints it looks >like it's a a quad 2-input mux like a 74158, but the >pinouts are completely different and it's got wired-or >outputs suggesting OC outputs. Select and enable are on >9 and 7 (I may have those switched); 1 = i0a, 2 = i0b, >3 = ya, 4 = yb, 5 = i1b, 6= i1a, 10 = i2a, 11 = i2b, >12 = yc, 13 = yd, 15 = i3a, 14 = i3b > >Of course, that's just the way it's drawn. It could be somewhat >different :-) We're pretty sure you're talking about the 8234, and this is what's said about it in the Nova 800 Technical Manual: Truth table: S0 S1 FN 0 0 !B 1 0 !A 0 1 !B 1 1 1 Pinout: 1 A0 2 B0 3 F0 4 F1 5 B1 6 A1 7 S1 8 Gnd 9 S0 10 A2 11 B2 12 F2 13 F3 14 B3 15 A3 16 Vcc Does this make any sense? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 7 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by edick＠idcomm.com

IMHO, it makes little sense to retain media for washing-machine-sized disk drives if you don't retain the drives and maintain them in order to retain the value of the media. Hindsight is always 20/20, but wouldn't it make sense to archive data/software on an archival medium, likely, we hope, to remain useable over time, rather than to store it on what's intended for on-line storage, and is likely to become obsolete within a couple of years of when it was developed? The reason these gargantuan drives are no longer around is because it was costly and laborious to maintain them in useable condition, with a routine failure frequency of more than one per week. If you're ever able to recover your data, you can probably store all the software that ever existed for that system on a single 8mm cartridge which will fit in your shirt pocket. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Al Kossow <aek(a)spies.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 12:26 PM Subject: Re: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? >> Something I've been wondering about. These boards look to have been used >> to convert ESDI to SCSI for stuff like Apollo's and Sun's. Could they be >> used to convert a SCSI drive to work on an ESDI controller? > > >This is actually a subset of a much more interesting general problem, using >modern storage devices as substitutes for older ones. This is a serious issue >for systems that use 'washing machine' disc drives (pre-SMDs, like Trident or >Memorex interfaces) where, unless you were REALLY careful, you'd end up with >a big pile of crashed heads and aluminum dust the first time you spun up a >disc drive that has been sitting in some warehouse for 20+ years. > >I have several dozen 80 and 300 meg disc packs that I've had for over 10 years >now that I'm scared to put into a drive, for fear of losing everything that's >on them... > >The past month or so, I started calling all the old 'data recovery' places, and >even THEY threw out the equipment to fly a head over these old packs.. >

26 years, 7 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by aek＠spies.com

> Something I've been wondering about. These boards look to have been used > to convert ESDI to SCSI for stuff like Apollo's and Sun's. Could they be > used to convert a SCSI drive to work on an ESDI controller? This is actually a subset of a much more interesting general problem, using modern storage devices as substitutes for older ones. This is a serious issue for systems that use 'washing machine' disc drives (pre-SMDs, like Trident or Memorex interfaces) where, unless you were REALLY careful, you'd end up with a big pile of crashed heads and aluminum dust the first time you spun up a disc drive that has been sitting in some warehouse for 20+ years. I have several dozen 80 and 300 meg disc packs that I've had for over 10 years now that I'm scared to put into a drive, for fear of losing everything that's on them... The past month or so, I started calling all the old 'data recovery' places, and even THEY threw out the equipment to fly a head over these old packs..

26 years, 7 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

I collect bridge boards. I can't help it-- I have a fetish for bridge boards. All makes: Emulex, DTC, Xebec, WD, Adaptec, etc. All kinds of configurations: Cpu<->MFM (ala wd-1000), SASI<->MFM, SCSI<->ESDI, SASI<->QIC30, all kinds. The SCSI<->SMD configuration still eludes me, however. I know they exist (Adaptec ACB-55xx), though I've never seen one. Docs are *really* hard to get. Still looking for the docs for the Emulex MD-23, possibly the best darned SCSI<->ESDI bridge ever made: Handles four drives at up to 24MHz data rate. Smokin'. 8" drives are interesting to me too, but I haven't seen too many in this neck of the woods. On Thu, 25 Nov 1999 23:48:11 -0800 Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> writes: >I am just wondering what some of us collect that we consider the >screwiest >ourselves. For example, for reasons I can't fathom I have started >collecting Apple logo AC power cords, and have a couple dozen of >various >styles now. > > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 7 months

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I have a tashiba 5100

by jdtoys＠progressivetel.com

I need a boot disk for an old laptop computer? Allen Mason

26 years, 7 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by edick＠idcomm.com

The databook's not the problem. I've got a couple of those. It's the fact that I'm looking at a one-of, and would prefer not to generate a whole code set if someone already has done work they' be willing to share. Since I have a plurality of these chips on hand, and since they'll drive the cable directly, requiring very few parts to complete the job, I'd like to use this device for the current task as a prelude to using it in the future. I've never had to write drivers for the thing myself, so I haven't any archived code I can go back to study. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 9:57 AM Subject: Re: CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ??? >At 00:03 27-11-1999 -0700, you wrote: > >>Has anybody got a CP/M-80 BIOS driver example for the WD33C93 SCSI >>controller? I'd surely like to look at one or two. Format utility stuff >>would be good, too. > > I'm pretty sure I have the databook that covered the 33C93. Would you like >me to run off some copies of the datasheets? > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com >Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our >own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

26 years, 7 months

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DG house numbered part xref/help with what *looks* like a mux...

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I was wondering if anyone has a DG house number to generic >part cross reference somewhere (if not I suppose I'll start one). Actually, yes, there is such a reference. It's a few hundred pages, and has pinouts for many "custom" DG chips. My copy is out on permanent loan, but if you get me the house number on the chip I'll have the current holder look it up for you. >Pat of this is prompted by a part (not *yet* suspect) I ran >across on a Nova 800 CPU1 board. From the prints it looks >like it's a a quad 2-input mux like a 74158, but the >pinouts are completely different and it's got wired-or >outputs suggesting OC outputs. Select and enable are on >9 and 7 (I may have those switched); 1 = i0a, 2 = i0b, >3 = ya, 4 = yb, 5 = i1b, 6= i1a, 10 = i2a, 11 = i2b, >12 = yc, 13 = yd, 15 = i3a, 14 = i3b > >Of course, that's just the way it's drawn. It could be somewhat >different :-) > >Does this part sound familiar to anyone? Um, what *is* the DG house number on this chip? If you had a time machine you could go back 20 years and buy a bunch of rejected versions of this chip, complete with DG house number, from Poly-Paks, I bet :-). -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 7 months

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CP/M-80 drivers for WD33C93 ???

by edick＠idcomm.com

Has anybody got a CP/M-80 BIOS driver example for the WD33C93 SCSI controller? I'd surely like to look at one or two. Format utility stuff would be good, too. Any source code will be eagerly looked at. thanx Dick -----Original Message----- From: B'ichela <mdalene(a)home.ctol.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 11:39 PM Subject: Re: do you still need XT parts? >On Fri, 26 Nov 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > >> [...] >> >> > I will summarise the pieces I am looking for below in detail: >> >> [...] >> >> > 1 Cassette cable for the IBM-PC computer >> >> I believe this is the same cable as is used with most models of TRS-80 >> (1/3/4/CoCo/M100/etc). So you could use one of those (which I assume are >> fairly easy to find) if you can't get the official IBM cable (did it exist?) >> >> -tony >> > Having both a Model 102 and a Tandy Coco 1,2 and 3 I have two of >those cassette cables you mentioned. now I only need to save some money to >buy a working cassette recorder. > Reguarding this. If I could find the basica.com file for the Xt on >a pcdos disk. does this wrapper/patcher allow the support of the cassette >unit in addittion to the disks or only the disks? If by default basica.com >only patched the rom basic to use disks. how do you port files from >cassette tape to disk? > > A pearl of wisdom from the y2K newsgroups: >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Y2K appears to be the Baby Boomers mid-life crisis, and it has the >potential to be a dandy. > -- Anonymnous -- >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > B'ichela > >

26 years, 7 months

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PDP11 spotted today in Sunnyvale CA for SALE

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

Weird Stuff Warehouse still exists??? I ordered our SMD-SCSI adaptec board there (back in 90).... everyone was laughing at me when I put the order through Supply and Services. PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com -----Original Message----- From: rhudson(a)ix.netcom.com <rhudson(a)ix.netcom.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 9:35 AM Subject: PDP11 spotted today in Sunnyvale CA for SALE >Wierd Stuff has a PDP 11 in their "AS-IS" room, CPU with 3 disk drives on a pallet, with the >backdoor badly dented. They are asking 500 for it. The start switch and one other have been >broken. > >Wierd Stuff is in Sunnyvale, CA (650 area code) > >I am not connected with Wierd Stuff warehouse in any way, I just buy other old "Weird stuff" >there. > >ron. > >

26 years, 7 months

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PDP11 spotted today in Sunnyvale CA for SALE

by rhudson＠ix.netcom.com

Wierd Stuff has a PDP 11 in their "AS-IS" room, CPU with 3 disk drives on a pallet, with the backdoor badly dented. They are asking 500 for it. The start switch and one other have been broken. Wierd Stuff is in Sunnyvale, CA (650 area code) I am not connected with Wierd Stuff warehouse in any way, I just buy other old "Weird stuff" there. ron.

26 years, 7 months

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PDP11 spotted today in Sunnyvale CA for SALE

by rhudson＠ix.netcom.com

On 11/27/99 08:58:54 you wrote: > >Weird Stuff Warehouse still exists??? > >I ordered our SMD-SCSI adaptec board there (back in 90).... everyone was >laughing at me when I put the order through Supply and Services. > > > >PDP-8 and other rare mini computers > >http://www.pdp8.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: rhudson(a)ix.netcom.com <rhudson(a)ix.netcom.com> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 9:35 AM >Subject: PDP11 spotted today in Sunnyvale CA for SALE > yup still there, but now they have moved to the other side of 101, back in Moffat Park. > >>Wierd Stuff has a PDP 11 in their "AS-IS" room, CPU with 3 disk drives on a >pallet, with the >>backdoor badly dented. They are asking 500 for it. The start switch and one >other have been >>broken. >> >>Wierd Stuff is in Sunnyvale, CA (650 area code) >> >>I am not connected with Wierd Stuff warehouse in any way, I just buy other >old "Weird stuff" >>there. >> >>ron. >> >> > >

26 years, 7 months

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Whats the screwiest thing you collect?

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 14:57:44 -0800 Al Kossow <aek(a)spies.com> writes: >"The SASI ones I never expected to work: They don't support >the 'IDENT' command (among other things) >" > >or disconnect/reconnect > >sounds like the unix drivers are expecting to be talking to a >SCSI Common Command Set board. But that's what's screwy-- The adaptec docs claim theat the 4525 *is* CCS compliant. MS-DOS seems to agree. BUt not UNIX. ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 7 months

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