- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Nostalgic note [Was: Re: Amiga 500, 2000 serial ports: The same?]

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- "Charles P. Hobbs" <transit(a)primenet.com> wrote: > I first heard about the Amiga in 1984 (it was called "Lorraine" back then > and not quite ready). I ran across one in 1985 at Ohio State. fresh out of the crate. I knew I wanted one. > I eventually got an A1000 in 1987, and used it until 1993. I got my A1000 in 1986 and an 8-bit ISA adapter called The Wedge in 1987 to attach a WD-WX-1 w/ST225 disk - 20Mb for $500; it beat the $1000 that a "real" disk was going for. I later went from using The Wedge to using the "Golden Gate II" card in my A3000 for Ethernet - it's a Zorro<->ISA bridge card to let you use IBM cards with Unix and AmigaDOS. Eventually, I bought the design and made a bunch of them under the name "GG2 Bus+". > At that time, I thought about getting an A3000 w/Emplant (so I could > run Mac DTP programs), but decided on a Mac LC III instead. . . I went with the A3000/A-Max route - Localtalk for the Amiga and I could hook my computer right up to a Mac-compatible laserprinter. It's still set up at my right elbow, but I don't use it much anymore :-( I've gone >from M$ Word on an emulated Mac to M$ Word on a Windoze box. Foo. This is not progress. I just went to our Amiga club's December meeting/party... a dozen people. At one point, AmiCON, the third registered Amiga user group in the U.S., had over 300 members. It was a real world example of how far the Amiga has faded away. If there are any Amiga users out there who are still using their machines for "useful work", I still make the "GG2 Bus+" card. It comes with Ethernet, IDE, serial and printer drivers and is *very* well supported under BSD-flavors of Unix on the Amiga. Write me off the list for details. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

26 years, 7 months

2
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V.23 protocol

by hofer＠wgh.ch

Hello, I am looking for specifications of the old V.23 protocol, or general informations about this. Would someone know some hints ? Thanks. -- J.-P. Hofer hofer(a)wgh.ch __________________________________________________________________ Jean-Pierre Hofer Telephone : + 41 1 251 07 31 Ingenieur-conseil Case postale 3126 E-mail : hofer(a)wgh.ch CH - 8021 Zuerich __________________________________________________________________

26 years, 7 months

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Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything.

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: > >--- John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: > >> BTW: Has anyone heard of a PDP-8/A500 ??? what is that? > > > >I wrote: > >It happens to be the first model I ever laid hands on... KK8A, KM8A, DKC8AA > >(the standard -8/a stuff), 12-slot box (the 20-slot box was for stuff like > >the PDP-8/a 620). I am pretty sure (it's been a while) that the -8/a 500 > >has a core-capable power supply. > > I was told this mini was filled with core memory, has a bunch of RK05 packs, > an rx01 and another thing they called a "panel box"- expander? Well - that confirms the PSU question. I don't know what a "panel box" might be, but it was possible to hook an older ONMIBUS cabinet to an -8/a with a pair of cables that superficially resembled UNIBUS cables. Want to sell the RK8E? I have a couple of drives, but I'd need at least one 16-sector pack, preferably a couple. I don't really need any hex-height OMNIBUS core; I've got a KT8-A and a 128Kw MOS board. I'm still looking for a programmers console, BTW. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

26 years, 7 months

1
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Radio reporter in San Diego looking for vintage computer geeks

by siconic＠jasmine.psyber.com

This reporter is looking for vintage computer geeks in San Diego to interview. Please respond directly to <shorsley(a)kpbs.org>. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 10:20:27 -0800 From: Scott Horsley <shorsley(a)kpbs.org> To: vcf(a)vintage.org Hi. I'm a radio reporter working on a story about vintage computer users. If you know of any in the San Diego area who'd like to be interviewed about their vintage machines, please have them contact me at shorsley(a)kpbs.org, or by phone at 619/594-8130. Thanks. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF East? VCF Europe!? YOU BETCHA!! Stay tuned for more information or contact me to find out how you can participate http://www.vintage.org

26 years, 7 months

1
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V.23 protocol

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 6, 18:21, Jean-Pierre Hofer wrote: > I am looking for specifications of the old V.23 protocol, or general > informations about this. It's a CCITT modem standard for half-duplex asynchronous communication at 600 or 1200 baud (one direction, on the forward channel) with a 75 baud back channel. Because the back channel is not just used for signalling, it somtimes used to be called "asymmetric duplex". It's an FSK system, the forward channel uses 1300Hz/1700Hz tones for 600 baud, or 1300Hz/2100Hz tones for 1200 baud; the back channel uses 390Hz/450Hz. The lower frequency is used for MARK and the higher for SPACE. The standard also specifies the answer tone frequency (2100Hz) and some timing but I can't remember the details. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 7 months

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DEC LA-180 and PDP8e/LC8-E

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> wrote: > > I recently got my hands on a classic DEC LA-180 RO... I didn't know the LA180 ever came with a keyboard. My knowledge of the LA180 is that it was badged "DECprinter I" and came with a 40-pin parallel interface. > You need a KL8-E or the like, not an LC8-E. The LC8-E is a parallel > interface, and the LA180 is a serial device. I have the OMNIBUS card for the LA180; I'd check the handle number, but I'm not where it is. It is most assuredly a parallel device. Perhaps you are thinking of the LA120? It was badged "DECwriter III". It _was_ serial, with a four-digit LED display by the keyboard for set-up and status info. I got my first LA180 because Newman Computer Exchange sent me a ticket for free shipping on my next order. I figured that an LA180 was the heaviest thing I would ever want from them. The printer came in handy a couple of years later when I was doing PDP-11 contract work in my basement - PDP-11/23, RLV11, LPV11 and a bunch of my old PDP-8 peripherals. Made my living for nearly two years off that stuff. Out-of-pocket expense in 1988: $300 for the PDP-11 (salvage from my day job), $100 for the RLV11 (used from a reseller). Very cost effective to me. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

26 years, 7 months

3
3
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Nostalgic note [Was: Re: Amiga 500, 2000 serial ports: The same?]

by yoda＠isr.ist.utl.pt

I can't help commenting on this: I was a big Amiga computers fan, I used them for a long time, they felt like an interersing alternative to the PC/DOS/Windows hegemony. I believed they had a superior technological background. But as the years went by, I had to recognize that it was no longer a fact, and that the PC/Linux combination advanced at a much higher rate, than the Amiga, that basically remained still, both in hardware and software terms. I can't help feeling nostalgic for reading posts about Amiga computers in this Classical Computers mailing list... Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt> *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and MSc Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585

26 years, 7 months

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Looking for...

by netsurfer_x1＠hotmail.com

I am looking for the following items. (Get ready, this is going to be a pretty varied list!) ----Pictures of Computers---- Commodore Hyperion (looks like a Dynalogic Hyperion, & could be the same thing?) TI-99/7 (Proposed, but never released. May never have entered the prototype stage.) TI-99/4B (not a typo! See above comment.) Commodore PC-5 (Predecessor of the [in]famous PC-10 series, no other information known.) Commodore TOI (also known to be called the Commodore 8033 or the Color PET.) ----Software---- If somebody could provide me with cpoies of the following software, , e-mail me ASAP! SmoothTalker, from First Byte, for Macintosh (on an 800K disk only!) Elite for Commodore 64. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 7 months

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Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything.

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 7:48 PM Subject: Re: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. > > >--- John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: >> BTW: Has anyone heard of a PDP-8/A500 ??? what is that? > >It happens to be the first model I ever laid hands on... KK8A, KM8A, DKC8AA >(the standard -8/a stuff), 12-slot box (the 20-slot box was for stuff like >the PDP-8/a 620). I am pretty sure (it's been a while) that the -8/a 500 >has a core-capable power supply. Lower stuff, like the -8/a 320, could only >take MOS memory (MS8C, et al.) > >I've only ever seen the 12-slot PDP-8/a boxes myself, but a couple of >flavors of them. I was told this mini was filled with core memory, has a bunch of RK05 packs, an rx01 and another thing they called a "panel box"- expander? > >-ethan > > >===== >Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >Please send all replies to > > erd(a)iname.com >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. >Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com >

26 years, 7 months

1
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Scrap value of machines (was Re: ebay feedback)

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 7:16 PM Subject: Re: Scrap value of machines (was Re: ebay feedback) >It's pretty obvious, then, isn't it, that the place to be is on their side >rather than bidding against them? Even if you have to pay a little more or I wish that would work but *most* of them don't care if you are going to put down a few thousand on a mini. (notice the few thousand now)... They deal in volume and don't care what you are looking for.. well, at least the big guys. >work a little more, it's better to be in a position to call the guy up on a >free morning and ask whether he's got anything new that you'd like to look >at, isn't it? > This works with smaller scrappers but they rare;y get the juicy stuff. I like a scrapper that goes into an old factory and levels it. The big scrappers get cool toys all the time. >Dick >-----Original Message----- >From: Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 9:07 AM >Subject: Re: Scrap value of machines (was Re: ebay feedback) > > >>Upon the date 12:58 AM 12/6/99 -0800, Mike Ford said something like: >>>>Where can you find out what the gold/aluminum/steel value of a >>>>computer at? The obvious solution is to know what a scrapper is >>>>willing to pay, and add $10 to your bid. A scrapper will never >>>>spend more to buy something than it is worth, a collector will. >>> >>>Not a good assumption. A scrapper might be willing to spend whatever it >>>took to make you never get a winning bid and just go away. >> >>Yes, an appropriate correlation is that if they can crush computers (before >>shredding the carcass) then they can cru$h you. >> >>Their profits drop corresponding with losses of bids so they're going to >>spend extra in the short term to protect their profits in the long term. >> >>Regards, Chris >>-- -- >>Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >>Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net >> Member of Antique Wireless Association >> URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ > >

26 years, 7 months

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Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything.

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- John B <dylanb(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: > BTW: Has anyone heard of a PDP-8/A500 ??? what is that? It happens to be the first model I ever laid hands on... KK8A, KM8A, DKC8AA (the standard -8/a stuff), 12-slot box (the 20-slot box was for stuff like the PDP-8/a 620). I am pretty sure (it's been a while) that the -8/a 500 has a core-capable power supply. Lower stuff, like the -8/a 320, could only take MOS memory (MS8C, et al.) I've only ever seen the 12-slot PDP-8/a boxes myself, but a couple of flavors of them. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

26 years, 7 months

1
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Any GRID experts out there?

by edick＠idcomm.com

I went through the same exercise after finding that their connector was different from the "standard" dot martix displays they listed, or some other obvious deviation from the norm. I got nowhere. I checked with GRID, since they were still alive then, and, likewise, got nowhere. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Arfon Gryffydd <arfonrg(a)texas.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 2:44 PM Subject: Re: Any GRID experts out there? >>I bought this thing to use as a display for a test intstrument I was >>developing as a mental masturbation exercise, but quickly went back to a CRT >>after running into trouble getting any kind of definitive interface spec. I >>might still use it for something some day if the data comes my way, but I'm >>really not looking for more projects. >> >>Have you got any interface specifications for this beastie, or do you know >>where they might be available? > > >I contacted several offices of Hitachi because at the time, I thought my >GRiD was irrepairable. I can tell you that after spending many corporate >dollars (for my personal project (Thanks, LiteOn!)), if Hitachi has specs >on that beastie, they are not releasing them. I contacted the division >that handles those displays and though I called them repeatedly, they never >returned any of my calls. > >If you can ever find the spec.s, I would sure like a copy! > >A >---------------------------------------- > Tired of Micro$oft??? > > Move up to a REAL OS... >######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # >#####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## >####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### >###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### >##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### ># ###### > ("LINUX" for those of you > without fixed-width fonts) >---------------------------------------- >Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com > >Slackware Mailing List: >http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html

26 years, 7 months

3
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DEC LA-180 and PDP8e/LC8-E

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Rick Bensene <rickb(a)bensene.com> wrote: > Hello, all, > > I recently got my hands on a classic DEC LA-180 RO (receive > only) printer. > There's a second board, that connects to the main electronics > board via a ribbon cable. This board has an old AY5-1013 UART > chip, and a bunch more TTL on it, and appears to be a serial > interface. Ah. This paragraph wasn't copied in the other message I just replied to... I've never seen this option, but, with something like this in place, that explains the questions about serial. > I want to try to connect this up to my PDP8/e system as print device. > The LC8-E card has a Berg connector that is identical to the Berg > connector on the printer electronics board of the LA-180. Check which pins are in use. DEC used the 40-pin Berg connector in just about everything. > I'm wondering if the 'parallel' interface of the LA-180 is compatible > with the LC8-E card... It's a pretty simple interface. According to the 1978 Microcomputer Handbook, the parallel out on the DKC8AA can be used to drive an LA180 with two caveats: the data is inverted, and the IOP instructions are different. Electrically, though, they are compatible. It's little more than 8-bits, a couple of handshake lines and a couple of status lines. > ...I don't have printsets for the > LC8-E card, so I don't know the pinout of the connector for the > printer, nor do I have any information at all on the LA-180 in > terms of the 'parallel' port interface of the printer. I don't have any prints on my ONMIBUS LA180 parallel card, but I do have prints for the LA180 (and the DKC8AA) > Obviously, I'm not going to just plug it in and see what happens :-) If all is TTL, nothing *bad* should happen, but your caution is reasonable. > Anyone out there know if this will work? If so, is a special > cable needed, or will a 'straight through' cable work? *If* the LC8-E is the LA180 parallel interface, a straight cable is what you want. I'd check the handle number of my own card, but I can't do that until tomorrow night. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

26 years, 7 months

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Any GRID experts out there?

by edick＠idcomm.com

Yes, it's about that size. (One can interpret the "size" in quite a number of ways.) I bought this thing to use as a display for a test intstrument I was developing as a mental masturbation exercise, but quickly went back to a CRT after running into trouble getting any kind of definitive interface spec. I might still use it for something some day if the data comes my way, but I'm really not looking for more projects. Have you got any interface specifications for this beastie, or do you know where they might be available? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Arfon Gryffydd <arfonrg(a)texas.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 12:42 PM Subject: Re: Any GRID experts out there? >It sounds like my GRiD 1530 display... Made by hitachi... two slider pots >(on the sides)... Monochrome... Dose it have about a 10.5" (diagonal) >display area??? > >At 09:08 AM 12/4/1999 -0700, you wrote: >>This thing has got to be at least 10 years old, but, here goes . . . I was >>scrounging through some boxes in my basement this morning . . . and found a >>flat-panel display module, probably monochrome, with the label LM758CXAGNR >>and the HITACHI brand name emblazoned on it. It has a couple of slide pots >>hanging from it, each bearing the name GRID in its silkscreen. >> >>Is any of you folks familiar enough with devices of this type or familar >>enough with GRID to steer me onto some information about how one might use >>this display panel for something useful? >> >>thanx >> >>Dick >> >> >> >---------------------------------------- > Tired of Micro$oft??? > > Move up to a REAL OS... >######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # >#####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## >####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### >###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### >##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### ># ###### > ("LINUX" for those of you > without fixed-width fonts) >---------------------------------------- >Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com > >Slackware Mailing List: >http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html

26 years, 7 months

2
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Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything.

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, December 03, 1999 3:51 PM Subject: Re: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. >As with anything, the higher your are the more you see. > >To someone who just sits down in my office and sees the PDP-8/E sitting on >my shelf (sometimes running, sometimes not :-) it seems *impossible* to >find a PDP-8. Then when you start looking you find the fringes of the >"surplus" marketplace where things appear from time to time. Then you find Speaking of which.. it looks like I have some read trips before XMAS. I have a couple of PDP-8As, some 8es, (6 in all I think).. Only reason I am travelling rather than shipping is because every unit has 32K of core..hmmmmmm.core...., some with RK05s and the rest with RX01/2s.. These units are getting harder to find.. I am really working the scrappers and factories.... looks like I might not reach my goal of 120 PDP-8(s-plural) by next fall... but I am flying out to Mr. Gold on Wednesday/Thursday. BTW: Has anyone heard of a PDP-8/A500 ??? what is that? >the liquidators, then you find the scrappers. And then, in John's case, you >find one *huge* scrapper. > >The key is that now we know about them we may be able to save some stuff. > Things are looking good.. just a little slow to start. PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com >--Chuck > >

26 years, 7 months

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Tube experts! - I T WORKS!

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, December 04, 1999 7:57 PM Subject: Re: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! >> >> ITS WORKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >Excellent....!! > >> Special thanks to Tony's idea of hooking up an isolation transformer (6.3V >> but rated to 3000V).. >> >> Okay, I did some of Christians tests and I found that the Transformer indeed >> was arching into the main supply. (I won two of these scopes on EBay). >> >> Here is the funny part.. I rarely go into surplus stores but tonight I made >> an exception. I told the guy at the counter what my problem was and he had a >> box full of 6.3Volt isolation transformers rated to 3000KV > >I wish I had access to suprlus stores like that. The few I know over here >have bits of battered transistor radios and not much else. I ship stuff to the UK all the time. If you have something you are in desparate need of (like that transformer).. please email me. If I see it I can pick it up and ship it. > >> HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH.. I could not believe it. I bought a few and tried one out. >> The scope now has a perfect trace. On XY the dot is crisp and very stable. I >> have to align the scope.. but will do so after I get all brand new tubes in >> it. > >A word of warning. There is _NO POINT_ in replacing all the valves in a >Tektronix 'scope -- most of them will be fine even after many years of >use (as an example, my 555 has had only a couple of valves replaced since >new). You _will_ cause problems if you replace valves indiscriminatately. >And you will have to do a full calibration (which is not as easy as it >looks). Some valves are probably 'Tektronix Tested Tubes', which are >essentially selected or matched ones. Replace those with ordinary valves >and you'll have a long day ahead of you trying to make it meet the specs. > Okay.. (my lack of tube knowledge talking)... a TV repair guy I know who use to do a lot of tube work told me tubes only last a couple of years. I did not want to have to recalibrate this scope everytime a tube drops out. Also, I will be reselling quite a few of the tubescopes with PDP-8s and don't want the scopes going south a month after they get them. I've ordered the spare but first I'll see how long the scope will last with the ones it has now. Are there particular tubes that will go regularly and should I replace those? >The best thing to do is to run through the calibration making as few >adjustments as possible. If some adjustment won't set up properly, then >debug the circuit. Don't necessarily replace the valve, which may well >_not_ be the problem (I've actually replaced more transistors than valves >in old Tektronix 500-series over the years!). > This one has 4 transistors in it. I am checking the caps right now. >Oh, and don't trust valve testers either. Certainly not simple 'emission >testers', which certainly won't show how a valve will perform in the >circuit. But even a mutual conductance tester, like my Avo Mk 4 won't >necessarily tell you how the valve will work under the conditions used in >the 'scope. The best test for a valve in one of these units is 'Does the >stage perform correctly'. > Yes. >So, buy spares if you want to, but don't replace parts unnecessarily. > Okay. > >> The only reason I don't like tubes is because they are very flakey in old >> mini computers.. From what I have heard from people who use to support them >> every power cycles was a nightmare. I am trying to stick to minis that can > >This may well have been true when you have a _lot_ of valves. But I can >assure you it's much less of a problem in these 'scopes... > >> Okay. >> I know.. What scares the hell out of me is I am hooking this thing up to my >> 8/S.. I am going to put some highvoltage diodes between the 8/S,8I and the >> scope to make sure if the scope goes bananas I don't blow a few hundred >> transistors in the minis. > >Reminds me of what can happen when the CRT in an HP9100 develops an >internal short. It blows transistors all over one of the deflection >boards, and then applies about 220V to the outputs from the processor >chassis. This generally wipes out a number of diodes on the gating board, >and if you're unlucky kills some transistors on a flip-flop board, some >transistors on the ROM address decoder, etc. > My point exactly.. there is no way I am going to let anything over +-10V hit the PDP-8s(plural) >> http://www.vacuumtubes.com/ has all the tubes in stock (all new in the >> box).. It is costing me over $300 for three sets of the tubes though :-( >> >> 6DJ8 Amperex tubes are over $30 each :-( > >Any reason that you think they're defective? Other than they're old >(which is no good reason!). > No, they work fine. I just don't want to have to recalibrate the scope every time one decides to die. If that's not an issue then I will leave them alone. john -- http://www.pdp8.com/ >-tony > >

26 years, 7 months

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Scrap value of machines (was Re: ebay feedback)

by edick＠idcomm.com

It's pretty obvious, then, isn't it, that the place to be is on their side rather than bidding against them? Even if you have to pay a little more or work a little more, it's better to be in a position to call the guy up on a free morning and ask whether he's got anything new that you'd like to look at, isn't it? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 9:07 AM Subject: Re: Scrap value of machines (was Re: ebay feedback) >Upon the date 12:58 AM 12/6/99 -0800, Mike Ford said something like: >>>Where can you find out what the gold/aluminum/steel value of a >>>computer at? The obvious solution is to know what a scrapper is >>>willing to pay, and add $10 to your bid. A scrapper will never >>>spend more to buy something than it is worth, a collector will. >> >>Not a good assumption. A scrapper might be willing to spend whatever it >>took to make you never get a winning bid and just go away. > >Yes, an appropriate correlation is that if they can crush computers (before >shredding the carcass) then they can cru$h you. > >Their profits drop corresponding with losses of bids so they're going to >spend extra in the short term to protect their profits in the long term. > >Regards, Chris >-- -- >Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net > Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/

26 years, 7 months

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documentation

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

Two things. First, if the person who acquired a Sun 1 last summer could contact me, I have a set of unused and probably in the shrinkwrap set of SunOS 1.1 manuals that they might be interested in. Also, I might be able to get some old HP documentation. 9000 series 200/300 if i recall (and primarily for 200). These are the old HP's with 5.25" floppy drives that we had back in the early 80's in the computer science department. The problem is, there is a lot of this HP doc, but its all in the sub-basement, and its rather difficult to justify getting a key to gain access to the sub-basement. There is a chance I will get getting the key once more, because we're trying to have a new phone line pulled through conduit down there. I also have a pair of IBM DOS 3.3 in shrinkwrap. These are in the standard book/slipcase style, and say they come with both 5.25" and 3.5" disks. There were also copies of TopView and some IBM network software in the same condition as the DOS, ie, book/slipcase, and shrinkwrapped. Still in the sub-basement though. For myself, I now have 12 wide, and 2 narrow 'placeholders' or whatever you call them, for 19" DEC racks. You know what I mean, those black with yellowish edges placeholders for filling in the spots on the 19" rack that are currently empty... *Big Grin* I'm always open to trade offers... -Lawrence LeMay

26 years, 7 months

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Intel Intellec 8 computer?????

by edick＠idcomm.com

26 years, 7 months

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DecMate III problem

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

While I'm at it... I've got a DecMate III that doesn't want to play. On power up, it displays "32" at the center of the screen. I've got WPS diskettes, and if they are in the disk drive it seems to glance at them, but still just shows "32" on the screen. If I unplug the keyboard and boot, then it shows "48". Sounds to me like a bitmask; missing keyboard is the "16" bit. Can anyone tell me what the "32" means? If it is a bitmask, can you also tell the meanings of the other bits? Please cc: the answer directly to me, as I've temporarily unsubscribed. Thanks! Bill.

26 years, 7 months

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Free NCR tower in Miami FL.

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

I've got a line on an NCR tower in Miami FL. If you are interested in picking up or paying shipping, let me know. Please e-mail to me directly, as I've temporarily unsubscribed (can't handle the volume). Cheers, Bill.

26 years, 7 months

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Any GRID experts out there?

by edick＠idcomm.com

This thing has got to be at least 10 years old, but, here goes . . . I was scrounging through some boxes in my basement this morning . . . and found a flat-panel display module, probably monochrome, with the label LM758CXAGNR and the HITACHI brand name emblazoned on it. It has a couple of slide pots hanging from it, each bearing the name GRID in its silkscreen. Is any of you folks familiar enough with devices of this type or familar enough with GRID to steer me onto some information about how one might use this display panel for something useful? thanx Dick

26 years, 7 months

2
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Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything.

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, December 02, 1999 9:18 PM Subject: Re: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. >>FWIW: If he's under an "assured destruct" contract, and you're buying from >>him, >>then you both can be in a lot of hot water if the wrong people find out. > >OTHOH I have gotten things that were scrapped under "assured destruct" >contracts because the definition of "destruct" is "cannot be reconstituted >to work in the original application." under those terms taking the PDP-8/M >out of a machine tool "destroys" the machine tool because without its brain >it won't work anymore. But the PDP-8 still does :-) > Thanks for that info Chuck. Most of the minis/boards I am pulling out I will try and restrict to University/Factory systems. I don't want to get in any trouble... but.. How the heck does he know which system should be destroyed or not?? (If you saw the place you would understand). If I do get the nerve to purchase a *huge* supercomputer from him (if it comes from a manufacturer) then I really can't resell it... >--Chuck > >

26 years, 7 months

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Tube experts! - I T WORKS!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Okay.. (my lack of tube knowledge talking)... a TV repair guy I know who us <to do a lot of tube work told me tubes only last a couple of years. I did In TVs where the tubes are low end and not always run at their best operating points that may be true. In Qualtity test equipment that is rarely the case. <not want to have to recalibrate this scope everytime a tube drops out. Also <I will be reselling quite a few of the tubescopes with PDP-8s and don't wan Mechanical shock and power cycling tends to ruin tubes faster. Generally tubes have good lifetimes and can be considered reliable (excluding the effects of heat on surrounding parts) . <the scopes going south a month after they get them. I've ordered the spare <but first I'll see how long the scope will last with the ones it has now. Best to leave be unless there is a direct indication one may be soft. Don't forget with the exception of open filements or shorts from mechanical shock tubes tend to fail slowly and soft. <This one has 4 transistors in it. I am checking the caps right now. Good idea s those (caps) do fail. <>> The only reason I don't like tubes is because they are very flakey in ol <>> mini computers.. From what I have heard from people who use to support <them <>> every power cycles was a nightmare. I am trying to stick to minis that That is true, usually they get filiment failures and those are easy to spot. Power cycles tend to accelerate that. then again I had a tube organ (some 80+ tubes) and only had one failure in 8 years. <>> 8/S.. I am going to put some highvoltage diodes between the 8/S,8I and <>> scope to make sure if the scope goes bananas I don't blow a few hundred <>> transistors in the minis. ???? Why? The scope is an enclosed system that would be hard pressed to emit high voltages back into the system it's hooked to. It's not like the HP9100 in that respect. For the RM503 to do that the HV lead would have to fall on one of the input lines! As I remember the series 8 Display scopes were driven off a pair of D/As and some single bit output to blank the beam. If you have something different I'd like to hear about that. Allison

26 years, 7 months

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Tube experts! - I T WORKS!

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 10:30 PM Subject: Re: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! >Upon the date 02:16 PM 12/5/99 -0500, John B said something like: >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> > -- snip -- >>>???? Why? The scope is an enclosed system that would be hard pressed to >>>emit high voltages back into the system it's hooked to. It's not like the >>>HP9100 in that respect. For the RM503 to do that the HV lead would have to >>>fall on one of the input lines! As I remember the series 8 Display scopes >>>were driven off a pair of D/As and some single bit output to blank the >>>beam. If you have something different I'd like to hear about that. > >I agree with Allison. Without knowing exactly the mods done by DEC that you >mention below, I'm still assuming the output of the D/As is connected right >into the SO-239 style front panel input connectors. In that case, the input >circuitry is isolated from any HV. The inputs go directly to the vertical >and horizontal amplifier tube grids (the 6DJ8's) after passing thru their >respective attenuator switch assemblies. > They did not hook up to the front panel inputs. They used 3 connectors on the back of the scope (x,y,z). All went into the amplifiers (except for Z of course). >> >>Three D/As. 1 12 bit for x, 1 12 bit for y, and 1 3 bit for intensity. When >>the transformer went in this RM503 it raised the regular voltages throughout >>the scope to 500+ volts... in some places over 1000. That was present right > >Ouch. I hope bypass capacitors and some coupling caps haven't had their >dielectric damaged. Most of the ceramic caps and poly caps have ratings of >500 and 600 volts DC respectively and 1KV is pushing or exceeding their >surge voltage rating. > No, I tested it for very short times. I don't bother cycling power when I see stuff like that. >>through to the input. I am protecting the D/A converters as I don't need the >>PDPs taking major beatings in the future. All the supplies inside the scope >>(-100,100,250,85,-3000 were going nuts). The other RM503 I have has the same >>problem. I am going to put an isolation transformer on every RM503,RM560 >>scope I get to solve the problem ahead of time. > >The other one has same problem? Interesting coincidence or possibly a >common failure mode of this scope. I *was* going to put a benchtop style >503 on my 'hunt for' list as it looks to be an excellent X-Y scope for my >bench but I'll do some further thinking on that I guess. > Yes it does. But don't worry... I like this 503 and with an isolation transformer inside that problem will never happen again. >> >>The 8 Display controllers have the intensity option :-) (for spacewars of >>course). The AX08 (XR option) and the 34D (standard) had a 3 bit intensity >>D/A output for the scope. The RM503s were modified by DEC for intensity >>control. > >That manual you said you have, is it from DEC or Tek? I'm curious about the Both, one from Tek and the LAB-8/34D interface manual from dec. >mods. If you have a vanilla Tek manual like I have you can see that there >are a pair of binding posts on the back of the unit which may be labeled >"CRT GRID" and "GND." The GRID connection goes directly to the CRT grid >through a 0.001 mfd capacitor. > >Now if DEC has done some fancy stuff to the 'scope by intrusively >interfacing the PDP8 display controller directly to the deflection >amplifier circuits in some manner then yes, I'd be leery of potential >damage to the PDP circuits. Same for the intensity modulation (aka Z-axis >modulation) circuit. > Yes they did... and I will do the same with some isolation added. This scope is surprisingly stable... I just finished building a flip chip tester and will be populating the 34D tonight... I hope it *lights* up. john http://www.pdp8.com/ >Regards, Chris >-- -- >Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net > Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ >

26 years, 7 months

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Got the oscilloscope interface running on the 8/S!

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

It's rather comical.. poor thing.. The 8/s wasn't exactly a super computer but it is having a little difficulty printing a line of 32 characters (5X7 bits). I can read the text but by the time it finishes drawing the end of the line, the first few characters start disappearing. I will try and post some pictures over the next couple of days. It is pretty cool to see this unit draw on an oscilloscope. I will try some video games (some were written for the 8/s) and post some pictures of that as well. john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com -----Original Message----- From: Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 4:09 AM Subject: Re: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! >>> The tube newsgroup recently has been talking about buying old scopes just >>> to harvest the tubes. When you get a good look at what good quality tubes >> >>Is it just me, or is this as distasteful as scrapping classic computers >>for gold? Old 'scopes have a perfectly good use already -- to display >>waveforms > >I have a Dumont 304a I tried to get $10 for without success. Pulling the >tubes will increase the value nicely. Its just like the 1130, if nobody is >willing to pay some premium over the value of the gold, then nobody wants >it very much. > > >

26 years, 7 months

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ebay feedback

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Innfogra(a)aol.com <Innfogra(a)aol.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 2:03 PM Subject: ebay feedback >In a message dated 12/5/1999 10:22:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, >rigdonj(a)intellistar.net writes: > >> > >> >Can you list negative feedback for a person even if you had no dealings >> >with them??? >> >No you can't anymore. If you detect or suspect fraud then anyone can report >that to Safe Harbor, the customer service department. I have done that, and >like keeping up with spares, if you have a good reason for suspicions you >should report it. > >The old adage still holds, "If it is too good to be true then it generally >isn't." Some frauds are easy to detect. > >The "IBM MF' guy is just stupid. I bet his item gets no bids. Stupid people >don't deserve a response. > >The DEC card in France. I don't think I would send cash up front to him. >However he could just be a low budget person, this may be just fine. Scrap >value on that card is about $8.00 in todays market. > David Winter (the guy in France) has bid on some of my items and always paid quickly. He seems to collect boards but does not buy entire systems. >I don't think any IBM 1130 is worth more than a couple of hundred in scrap by >the way. I suspect less than that. > Then I guess the scrappers will be outbidding you..... The larger 1960 mini computers had a lot more gold in them than the '70s models as the gold was plated thicker in the '60s. The 1130 (from what I can remember) has more than $100US in aluminum in it (just cpu + printer). I don't know what the gold content is.. (I'll find out.. I know a company that does).. BTW I just lost an IBM 360 to a gold scrapper [bid more than me]. Some of the metal scrappers I know never bothered to look at gold content.. what's scaring the hell out of me are these guys that know to the penny what they can extract out of it and generally bid a lot higher than most. john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com >Paxton >

26 years, 7 months

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Adopt a scrapper and paper tape punches.

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/4/1999 10:05:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, mrdos(a)swbell.net writes: > would take it seriously. It's really not a bad idea, and I'm sure our fellow > collectors would go for it. We really need an organization to preserve old > computers. I go to scrap yards and see classic machines ripped apart all the > ti While I like the idea of an organization to preserve old computers I suspect there are already several. This list actually works well for rescues. The biggest problem is that the scrappers are rarely computer literate. If they are they are already selling on ebay and the Internet. Most scrappers are metals oriented. Even if they are recyclers the bottom line is the value of the metals. Volume is the problem, you must scrap or get buried in it. The best answer is to make friends with a scrapper. Anyone who will pay twice the scrap value consistently will be a welcome customer. In the long run you may get systems set aside for you to look at. Ask for particular brands or items but don't become a pest. They need to know what you are looking for. Check on a regular basis. Don't ask them to call you unless you are willing to offer significant money. They are busy and you are not a major part of their business. I bet there are enough people on the list to cover the major scrappers in each city. If each person adopted one we could flood this list with equipment. And probably dump enough on ebay to depress prices. I am adopting one here in Portland. And that brings up paper tape punches. He has a REMEX paper tape punch and reader set. It is shrink wrapped on a pallet and I have not had a chance to look at it yet. He wants $250 but may be open to offers. He sells a lot of stuff to Western Numerical Controls. They are old and extremely heavy, I would say late 70s but that is a guess. If anyone is interested please email me off the list. Paxton

26 years, 7 months

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Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 9:07 PM Subject: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback >Upon the date 01:07 PM 12/5/99 -0500, John B said something like: >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Innfogra(a)aol.com <Innfogra(a)aol.com> > > -- snip -- >>>I don't think any IBM 1130 is worth more than a couple of hundred in scrap >>by >>>the way. I suspect less than that. >>> >> >>Then I guess the scrappers will be outbidding you..... The larger 1960 mini >>computers had a lot more gold in them than the '70s models as the gold was >>plated thicker in the '60s. The 1130 (from what I can remember) has more >>than $100US in aluminum in it (just cpu + printer). I don't know what the >>gold content is.. (I'll find out.. I know a company that does).. BTW I just > >Gold was a lot cheaper per ounce back in those days compared to now even >when considering inflation. US$35 an ounce I think I recall in the late >60's/early 70's before it really shot up in price. Was up to US$700 or so >for a short time a couple of decades ago. Around US$300 per ounce now I >think. So it would be probable to find connectors, circuit card >connections, etc. with a heavier layer of gold on a 60's-vintage machine >like the 1130. Also, there was a whole *heap* more connections in such a >machine vs. the highly integrated mainframes/minis of rather recent times. >This gives a better perspective of what those scrappers will pay for a >machine. But $4K for an 1130 as John reported hearing still seems high. >Other really precious metals inside of it? Platinum? Goo-gobs of silver (at >about US$3 an ounce)? I thought he was out of his tree when he told me what he was paying for the mainframes. I didn't believe it until I saw a fax on a piece of equipment in the warehouse which showed he bid $8000 on an IBM 30 series mainframe (water cooled) THAT WAS ONLY THE CPU!. He had other bids on the other parts. He looks at each piece, puts a price on it and then totals it on the bottom. I believe he said the Hitachi supers used Platinum [not sure, he did mention one metal other than silver or gold). BTW: The sick &*^*&*(^ offered to buy the two Fujitsus I have coming in for a decent $$$ due to gold content. He also asked me if I was interested in selling any of my 1960's minis for gold as well. As I will probably be sending the Vax 6000 I get to him (hey! I can't pull minis out of him without sending some...), I will ask him to quote me on: Fujitsu Super computer (I'll list the items as I saw them on his fax). The Vax 6000/610 with drives, etc... An IBM360 and a PDP-8/S I want to know what kind of $$$ he is actually going to offer. I do get a lot of sites willing to accept $1-3K for *many systems* but I hate to compete with this kind of company without knowing what I should be offering. > >>lost an IBM 360 to a gold scrapper [bid more than me]. Some of the metal >>scrappers I know never bothered to look at gold content.. what's scaring the >>hell out of me are these guys that know to the penny what they can extract >>out of it and generally bid a lot higher than most. > >Sounds like they have a network or something in which they describe (or >boast about) what they've salvaged. > This guy did 13 million pounds last year. I am sure he knows how much $$$ in metal is in ever mini/mainframe/super computer on the planet.. He even knows the contents for Apple IIcs [don't laugh.. he had a skid full of them] and IBM PS/2 XXX series. john http://www.pdp8.com/ >Regards, Chris >-- -- >Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net > Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ >

26 years, 7 months

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V4.7 and VMS vs MicroVMS

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I was going thru some drives and tapes yesterday while trying to >resurrect my MVII and came across a v4.7 distribution I din't know I >had. This leads me to ask, one, if the person looking for same a few >days back (Enrico?) found one. And a second, stupid question. Stupid >because most of you probably know the answer. But as a PDP11 type >relatively new to the VAXworld I'd like to know what is the >difference/Is there a difference between VMS, MicroVMS? The tape I found >is labeled MicroVMS v4.7 bin. In the late V4 days, there were two kinds of VMS distribution kits: "full VMS", as you would install on a 11/730, 11/750, or 11/780, or 8600, or..., and there was "MicroVMS", which is what you put on your Microvax I or II. "MicroVMS" distribution kits were on huge stacks of floppies (RX50 or RX33 depending on what flavor you needed) and TK50 carts. MicroVMS is a "trimmed-down" VMS distribution, with the parts that aren't necessary (like Big-VAX support) or aren't usable on a Microvax (like the RSX-compatibility mode stuff) taken out. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 7 months

3
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Clarification

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Hi, Dave and the list, It occurred to me tonight that my comments to the list regarding the moron posting some old PC as a mainframe on E-bay could have been misinterpreted where AOL was concerned. When I mentioned that the guy's posting from an AOL address 'wasn't likely to help,' I was merely referring to the popular stereotype that many techies I've met seem to have regarding AOL users. This stereotype holds that most AOL users have no clue about how computers, or any type of electronics, do what they do, can barely find the power switch unassisted, and that they wouldn't know a mainframe from a toaster oven. My comments were in reference to the fact that anyone even the slightest bit hardware-literate would likely be suspicious of the auction because it was posted using an AOL contact address. Now, my own view is that this stereotype is a big bunch of meadow muffins. You are living proof of that. AOL may not be my provider of choice, but that doesn't mean that others will see it that way. I try not to make a judgment call one way or another until I've actually seen free-form questions or writings from the user in question. Translation: No offense meant. I was merely making an observation based on popular stereotypes. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

26 years, 7 months

1
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HP stuff

by donm＠cts.com

For the benefit of the various HP hunters, there will be an auction in San Diego on Saturday, Dec 11th at 10 AM. Site is at 9389 Dowdy Drive off Miramar Road. Inspection Thurs 2PM-8PM and Sat 8 AM until start of auction. Equipment is purportedly from Pacific Bell Concord CA facility. Over 30 HP 9000 controllers as well as Digital controllers and drives, Gandalf controllers ... Contact A-1 Auction Liquidators 858-689-2324 Voice 858-689-2334 Fax - don

26 years, 7 months

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Tube experts! - I T WORKS!

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 3:06 PM Subject: Re: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! ><Okay.. (my lack of tube knowledge talking)... a TV repair guy I know who us ><to do a lot of tube work told me tubes only last a couple of years. I did > >In TVs where the tubes are low end and not always run at their best >operating points that may be true. In Qualtity test equipment that is >rarely the case. > ><not want to have to recalibrate this scope everytime a tube drops out. Also ><I will be reselling quite a few of the tubescopes with PDP-8s and don't wan > >Mechanical shock and power cycling tends to ruin tubes faster. Generally >tubes have good lifetimes and can be considered reliable (excluding the >effects of heat on surrounding parts) . > ><the scopes going south a month after they get them. I've ordered the spare ><but first I'll see how long the scope will last with the ones it has now. > >Best to leave be unless there is a direct indication one may be soft. >Don't forget with the exception of open filements or shorts from mechanical >shock tubes tend to fail slowly and soft. > ><This one has 4 transistors in it. I am checking the caps right now. > >Good idea s those (caps) do fail. > ><>> The only reason I don't like tubes is because they are very flakey in ol ><>> mini computers.. From what I have heard from people who use to support ><them ><>> every power cycles was a nightmare. I am trying to stick to minis that > >That is true, usually they get filiment failures and those are easy to >spot. Power cycles tend to accelerate that. then again I had a tube >organ (some 80+ tubes) and only had one failure in 8 years. > ><>> 8/S.. I am going to put some highvoltage diodes between the 8/S,8I and ><>> scope to make sure if the scope goes bananas I don't blow a few hundred ><>> transistors in the minis. > >???? Why? The scope is an enclosed system that would be hard pressed to >emit high voltages back into the system it's hooked to. It's not like the >HP9100 in that respect. For the RM503 to do that the HV lead would have to >fall on one of the input lines! As I remember the series 8 Display scopes >were driven off a pair of D/As and some single bit output to blank the >beam. If you have something different I'd like to hear about that. Three D/As. 1 12 bit for x, 1 12 bit for y, and 1 3 bit for intensity. When the transformer went in this RM503 it raised the regular voltages throughout the scope to 500+ volts... in some places over 1000. That was present right through to the input. I am protecting the D/A converters as I don't need the PDPs taking major beatings in the future. All the supplies inside the scope (-100,100,250,85,-3000 were going nuts). The other RM503 I have has the same problem. I am going to put an isolation transformer on every RM503,RM560 scope I get to solve the problem ahead of time. The 8 Display controllers have the intensity option :-) (for spacewars of course). The AX08 (XR option) and the 34D (standard) had a 3 bit intensity D/A output for the scope. The RM503s were modified by DEC for intensity control. john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com > >Allison > > >

26 years, 7 months

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AOL members 2nd class citizens? (was Re: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/5/99 2:53:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, Glenatacme(a)aol.com writes: > Bruce Lane wrote: > > In a message dated 12/05/1999 12:08:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, > kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com writes: > > > The guy's an absolute moron, as is clearly evidenced > > by his poor spelling. The fact that he's posting from an AOL address, and > > that he has no feedback listed whatsoever, won't help either. > > Umm, just out of curiosity, why do you consider an AOL address "unhelpful?" > > Glen Goodwin > 0/0 well, its a very old and popular stereotype that aolosers are very new to computers and dont have a clue as to what the big picture is. DB Young coming in 2000: www.nothingtodo.org ! --> this message printed on recycled disk space view the computers of yesteryear at http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm (now accepting donations!)

26 years, 7 months

3
2
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Scrap value of machines (was Re: ebay feedback)

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Clint Wolff (VAX collector) <vaxman(a)uswest.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 10:38 PM Subject: Scrap value of machines (was Re: ebay feedback) > > > >On Sun, 5 Dec 1999, John B wrote: > >> >> David Winter (the guy in France) has bid on some of my items and always paid >> quickly. He seems to collect boards but does not buy entire systems. >> >> >I don't think any IBM 1130 is worth more than a couple of hundred in scrap >> by >> >the way. I suspect less than that. >> > >> >> Then I guess the scrappers will be outbidding you..... The larger 1960 mini >> computers had a lot more gold in them than the '70s models as the gold was >> plated thicker in the '60s. The 1130 (from what I can remember) has more >> than $100US in aluminum in it (just cpu + printer). I don't know what the >> gold content is.. (I'll find out.. I know a company that does).. BTW I just >> lost an IBM 360 to a gold scrapper [bid more than me]. Some of the metal >> scrappers I know never bothered to look at gold content.. what's scaring the >> hell out of me are these guys that know to the penny what they can extract >> out of it and generally bid a lot higher than most. >> > >Where can you find out what the gold/aluminum/steel value of a >computer at? The obvious solution is to know what a scrapper is >willing to pay, and add $10 to your bid. A scrapper will never >spend more to buy something than it is worth, a collector will. The problem is: *some* minis/mainframes his company is willing to pay more for than it is worth in it's unrestored condition. Ie: What can I resell a Fujitsu super computer for, restored??? Unfortunately, it looks like it's worth more in gold. I can justify paying higher dollars for 1950/60s minis but I won't pay $8000 for something that is 7 years old. Please remember this is "profit talking"... Maybe there might be someone who *really* wants a Fujitsu... but are they willing to compete with a scrapper at $8K? I am lucky in that I still have a lot of paper mills/factories he is not into yet so I can grab huge racks of minis for a couple thousand. Gotta hand it to the *sneaky* guy.. He even offered to go to the sites I purchase from to pick up and deliver what I want and pick up what I don't... and I am sure to add his name to the bidders list :-( john http://www.pdp8.com/ > >Clint > > >

26 years, 7 months

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Adopt a scrapper and paper tape punches.

by mbg＠world.std.com

>The best answer is to make friends with a scrapper. Anyone who will pay >twice the scrap value consistently will be a welcome customer. In the >long run you may get systems set aside for you to look at. Ask for >particular brands or items but don't become a pest. They need to know >what you are looking for. Check on a regular basis. Don't ask them to >call you unless you are willing to offer significant money. They are busy >and you are not a major part of their business. I like the idea... my only question is, Where does one find such a scrapper? Is it as simple as checking the Yellow Pages under Scrapper or metal recovery? How do you know they deal with computers without calling? I'd hate to get off to a bad start with one... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 7 months

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Adding 4116 to memory board was This guy needs a *LART*... :-/

by allisonp＠world.std.com

I strongly advise against sockets. The height and the added capacitance tends to affect array behavour. Also Some sockets are more trouble than bad memory. Allison

26 years, 7 months

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WORKSLATE System on eBay

by larsenl＠rhtc.net

I have placed a Convergent Technologies WorkSlate system on eBay under Computers: Vintage #214549606 I believe this is a complete system. Starts at $200

26 years, 7 months

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AOL members 2nd class citizens? (was Re: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/)

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

Bruce Lane wrote: In a message dated 12/05/1999 12:08:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com writes: > The guy's an absolute moron, as is clearly evidenced > by his poor spelling. The fact that he's posting from an AOL address, and > that he has no feedback listed whatsoever, won't help either. Umm, just out of curiosity, why do you consider an AOL address "unhelpful?" Glen Goodwin 0/0

26 years, 7 months

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ebay feedback

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/5/1999 10:22:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, rigdonj(a)intellistar.net writes: > > > >Can you list negative feedback for a person even if you had no dealings > >with them??? > No you can't anymore. If you detect or suspect fraud then anyone can report that to Safe Harbor, the customer service department. I have done that, and like keeping up with spares, if you have a good reason for suspicions you should report it. The old adage still holds, "If it is too good to be true then it generally isn't." Some frauds are easy to detect. The "IBM MF' guy is just stupid. I bet his item gets no bids. Stupid people don't deserve a response. The DEC card in France. I don't think I would send cash up front to him. However he could just be a low budget person, this may be just fine. Scrap value on that card is about $8.00 in todays market. I don't think any IBM 1130 is worth more than a couple of hundred in scrap by the way. I suspect less than that. Paxton

26 years, 7 months

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Minor VAX peripheral woes ...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<* I'd really like to add a 3.5-inch diskette drive (RX26? RX33 ?) RX23 < I've not had any luck searching for used RX?? drives on the net < (plus I'd need the bezel, mounting bracket, etc). Suggestions < on where I should be looking instead ??? <Thanks !-> The reson for that is you need either the SCSIfied version or the earlier plain 3.5" with a SCSI bridge board. Both will be hard to find. <* I bought a 3rd party SCSI CD-ROM (Pioneer DR-506S 32x) and have < it in an external enclosure. I have the 2048/512-byte per block There are plenty of SCSI Cdroms that work fine. < Curiously, if I attach the same drive & cable to an Alpha 600au < workstation running OpenVMS 7.1-h2, the drive works fine. Hence < I suspect that the OpenVMS 7.2 SCSI driver on the VAX is somehow < to blame ... anyone know of any patches(?), or SCSI CD-ROM drivers I did SCSI Cdrom load of the 7.2kit on my 3100 using a sony unit I had laying around. Works just fine. May be a drive interface problem like termination or cabling. Allison

26 years, 7 months

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RA73s and the BA123

by oliv555＠arrl.net

Has anyone done a succesful install of the later RA drives into the BA123 enclosure? I recently picked up a pair of RA73s with the idea of installing them in my MVII, actually now upgraded to MVIII+. I've got the correct cabling for the controller side but have been unable to locate the cables (or part numbers) for the drive end. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Nick

26 years, 7 months

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Ugh, PC0 + PDP-8I problem.

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

I have just started to look at this problem but I don't like it already. Here we go: If I load a RIM paper tape into my 8I using (single step) it loads in fine. If I load in a RIM paper tape into my 8I running (no manual steps).. the data loaded is garbage , and may not even be in the right place. If I toggle in a program to test the "all 1s" paper tape it passes (both single step and running) If I toggle in a program to test the "all 0s" paper tape it passes (both single step and running) If I toggle in a *larger* program to read a "1s and 0s paper tape" it passes (both single step and running). [this is ones and zeros alternating] I have checked the strobe line with my scope at it appears normal. I have checked and re-aligned the paper tape reader and data coming out of it (in step mode) is okay. My next move will be to try and load 32 bytes from the paper tape reader into core (not the RIM loader, my own quick program). and Write a quick program to write various numbers to core and make sure the are written correctly. There are no other devices connected. It could be the data is improperly strobed at high speed (adjacent holes on either side of the actual byte being read in are allowing enough light through to trigger the photo detector). I have the gain up quite a bit to strobe the feed hole.... but not enough to screw up the above three tests. Any suggestions???????????????? john

26 years, 7 months

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Minor VAX peripheral woes ...

by slwmbox2＠pacbell.net

Hi -- I'm the original owner of a VAXstation 4000 model 60 which is still going strong with OpenVMS 7.2 (thanks to the DECUS hobbyist program) ... but I'm having a little trouble keeping up with the trailing edge of technology on two fronts: * I'd really like to add a 3.5-inch diskette drive (RX26? RX33 ?) to this system. I recently discovered both the GNU "MTOOLS" and Madgoat "PCX" software pacakges for VMS (which read/write MS-DOS disk formats ... MTOOLS will also read/write DOS files from an external SCSI 100Mb ZIP-drive connected to a VAX), but usually it would be much more convenient to use 3.5-inch diskettes (which is a common demonator among almost all PCs) rather than ZIP-100s. I've not had any luck searching for used RX?? drives on the net (plus I'd need the bezel, mounting bracket, etc). Suggestions on where I should be looking instead ??? <Thanks !-> * I bought a 3rd party SCSI CD-ROM (Pioneer DR-506S 32x) and have it in an external enclosure. I have the 2048/512-byte per block jumper on the drive "off" for 512-bytes per block. The drive is visible and reported properly from the console firmware, before booting to VMS, there are no SCSI-id conflicts, and my SCSI cable lengths are short. But when I attempt to mount a disk under VMS 7.2, a "medium offline" error message is returned. Curiously, if I attach the same drive & cable to an Alpha 600au workstation running OpenVMS 7.1-h2, the drive works fine. Hence I suspect that the OpenVMS 7.2 SCSI driver on the VAX is somehow to blame ... anyone know of any patches(?), or SCSI CD-ROM drivers from earlier VMS/VAX versions which might work ? Or what about exchanging the Pioneer DR-506S CD-ROM for some other 3rd party (i.e., affordable) SCSI drive which folks have used successfully with OpenVMS/VAX 7.2 ? Any suggestions would be appreciated. A few months back I'd put this question to the folks at "Accorn Software" who'd written a software utility/driver "MODISK" to enable older versions of OpenVMS/VAX to operate 3rd party CD-ROM drives ... but their product isn't supported (doesn't run) under OpenVMS versions 7.0 and beyond ... they didn't think it needed, as this functionality "should" now be part of the baseline OS. Anyway, I'd appreciate hearing from anyone with ideas on these items. Thanks much, -- Jim McCarthy jkmccarthy(a)pacbell.net

26 years, 7 months

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Basic Source for Super Star Trek

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> Does anyone have a copy of the Basic source for Super StarTrek? It's >>included in the book "BASIC Computer Games" by David H. Ahl (Creative >>Computing). >> >> I probably won't win the eOverPay auction, so I'm trying to search out a >>copy of the game, since AFAIK, it's the only program of interest in book >>anyway. >Sure, I've got it, it's on one of the four 8" floppies that Creative >Computing was selling in 1977 or so with all the "BASIC Computer >Games" on them. > >If you want to see the original floppies and documentation cards, check >out > > http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/flop1.jpg > http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/flop2.jpg > http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/sheet1a.gif > http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/sheet2a.gif And for the source code listing (as opposed to Tokenized .BAS file), see http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/startrek.txt -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 7 months

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V4.7 and VMS vs MicroVMS

by oliv555＠arrl.net

I was going thru some drives and tapes yesterday while trying to resurrect my MVII and came across a v4.7 distribution I din't know I had. This leads me to ask, one, if the person looking for same a few days back (Enrico?) found one. And a second, stupid question. Stupid because most of you probably know the answer. But as a PDP11 type relatively new to the VAXworld I'd like to know what is the difference/Is there a difference between VMS, MicroVMS? The tape I found is labeled MicroVMS v4.7 bin. Both of my Qbus machines are down right now so I cant verify this tape. If there is still the need for this maybe someone in the Houston area on list can check it out. Nick

26 years, 7 months

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Basic Source for Super Star Trek

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> Does anyone have a copy of the Basic source for Super StarTrek? It's >>included in the book "BASIC Computer Games" by David H. Ahl (Creative >>Computing). >> >> I probably won't win the eOverPay auction, so I'm trying to search out a >>copy of the game, since AFAIK, it's the only program of interest in book >>anyway. >Sure, I've got it, it's on one of the four 8" floppies that Creative >Computing was selling in 1977 or so with all the "BASIC Computer >Games" on them. > >If you want to see the original floppies and documentation cards, check >out > > http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/flop1.jpg > http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/flop2.jpg > http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/sheet1a.gif > http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/sheet2a.gif And here's the actual game in progress - running on my S-100 crate >from the above 8" floppies: CompuPro Systems 56K CP/M 2.2H A>BASIC52 STARTREK BASIC-80 Rev. 5.2 [CP/M Version] Copyright 1977, 78, 79, 80 (C) by Microsoft Created: 14-Jul-80 24134 Bytes free YOUR ORDERS ARE AS FOLLOWS: -------------------------- DESTROY THE 19 KLINGON WARSHIPS WHICH HAVE INVADED THE GALAXY BEFORE THEY CAN ATTACK FEDERATION HEADQUARTERS ON STARDATE 2428. THIS GIVES YOU 28 DAYS. THERE ARE 3 STARBASES IN THE GALAXY FOR RESUPPLYING YOUR SHIP. ARE YOU READY TO ACCEPT COMMAND ('N' FOR INSTRUCTIONS)?Y YOUR MISSION BEGINS WITH YOUR STARSHIP LOCATED IN THE GALACTIC QUADRANT, 'CAPELLA I'. COMMAND? LRS LONG RANGE SCAN FOR QUADRANT 2, 6 ------------------- | 008 | 105 | 007 | ------------------- | 003 | 003 | 101 | ------------------- | 008 | 003 | 007 | ------------------- COMMAND? SRS +--1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8-+ 1 | | 1 STARDATE 2400.0 2 | * | 2 CONDITION GREEN 3 | | 3 QUADRANT 2, 6 4 | | 4 SECTOR 7, 7 5 | | 5 PHOTON TORPEDOES 10 6 | * * | 6 TOTAL ENERGY 2950 7 | <E> | 7 SHIELDS 1000 8 | | 8 KLINGONS REMAINING 19 +--1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8-+ COMMAND? NAV COURSE (0-9)? 1 WARP FACTOR (0-8)? .2 NOW ENTERING DENEB III QUADRANT . . . COMBAT AREA CONDITION RED +--1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8-+ 1 | | 1 STARDATE 2401.0 2 | | 2 CONDITION *RED* 3 | +K+ | 3 QUADRANT 2, 7 4 | | 4 SECTOR 7, 1 5 | | 5 PHOTON TORPEDOES 10 6 | | 6 TOTAL ENERGY 2938 7 | <E> | 7 SHIELDS 1000 8 | * | 8 KLINGONS REMAINING 19 +--1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8-+ COMMAND? PHA PHASERS LOCKED ON TARGET; ENERGY AVAILABLE = 1938 UNITS NUMBER OF UNITS TO FIRE? 350 121 UNIT HIT ON KLINGON AT SECTOR 3, 7. (SENSORS SHOW 115.412 UNITS REMAINING) 42 UNIT HIT ON ENTERPRISE FROM SECTOR 3, 7. <SHIELDS DOWN TO 958 UNITS> COMMAND? PHA PHASERS LOCKED ON TARGET; ENERGY AVAILABLE = 1588 UNITS NUMBER OF UNITS TO FIRE? 350 117 UNIT HIT ON KLINGON AT SECTOR 3, 7. *** KLINGON DESTROYED *** COMMAND? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 7 months

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compag

by allanph＠email.msn.com

I have a compaq 386/20 . model-2670 portable. I need info and drivers for plasma screen. THANKS-allanph(a)msn.com

26 years, 7 months

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This guy needs a *LART*... :-/

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)30below.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, December 04, 1999 11:27 PM Subject: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ >Check out this ebay auction under Computers:Mainframe... > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=210172793 > >What an absolute, unadulterated jerk. > >Can you list negative feedback for a person even if you had no dealings >with them??? > Only if you are the high bidder on one of his items.. Otherwise it has to be neutral. john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com >Growling mad, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger >-- >Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers >Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > >If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead >disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. >

26 years, 7 months

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Adopt a scrapper and paper tape punches.

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Innfogra(a)aol.com <Innfogra(a)aol.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 3:28 AM Subject: Adopt a scrapper and paper tape punches. >In a message dated 12/4/1999 10:05:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, >mrdos(a)swbell.net writes: > >> would take it seriously. It's really not a bad idea, and I'm sure our fellow >> collectors would go for it. We really need an organization to preserve old >> computers. I go to scrap yards and see classic machines ripped apart all >the >> ti >While I like the idea of an organization to preserve old computers I suspect >there are already several. This list actually works well for rescues. > >The biggest problem is that the scrappers are rarely computer literate. If >they are they are already selling on ebay and the Internet. Most scrappers Some might have kept core memory and stuff like that but for the most part these guys don't have time to play on EBay.. The volume is so high they can't afford the time. Gold content (and other metals) are high so all they have to do is keep stripping the stuff down. >are metals oriented. Even if they are recyclers the bottom line is the value >of the metals. Volume is the problem, you must scrap or get buried in it. > >The best answer is to make friends with a scrapper. Anyone who will pay twice >the scrap value consistently will be a welcome customer. In the long run you Scrap value to a gold reclaimer is *alot*more than you think. The place I visited routinely offers $8-10K for IBM 30 series. (water cooled CPU)... As a lot of the older minis have less gold I can get them for a lor less. If an IBM 360 comes up be prepared that there is a lot of gold in that machine and it will cost a lot of money. Don't forget, they won't accept "scrap price", they will want "raw materials" price... and for some large super computers/large mainframes that can be quite expensive. >may get systems set aside for you to look at. Ask for particular brands or >items but don't become a pest. They need to know what you are looking for. They don't care. The don't understand the stuff. They just know IBM1130 = pay $4K as scrap, get $7 in raw materials back. >Check on a regular basis. Don't ask them to call you unless you are willing >to offer significant money. They are busy and you are not a major part of >their business. > They won't call. (maybe smaller ones might). The guy I just visited was soo busy I had to wait in line to ask simple questions. >I bet there are enough people on the list to cover the major scrappers in >each city. If each person adopted one we could flood this list with >equipment. And probably dump enough on ebay to depress prices. john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com > >I am adopting one here in Portland. And that brings up paper tape punches. He >has a REMEX paper tape punch and reader set. It is shrink wrapped on a pallet >and I have not had a chance to look at it yet. He wants $250 but may be open >to offers. He sells a lot of stuff to Western Numerical Controls. They are >old and extremely heavy, I would say late 70s but that is a guess. If anyone >is interested please email me off the list. > >Paxton > >

26 years, 7 months

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