- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Manual Available: Penril Corporation 300/1200 Data Modem

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

Same deal, contact the person offering this, not me. I think I translated the dimensions correctly, blasted MS! Another example of where Eudora couldn't read the garbage MS OE spewed. He included a scan of the cover that I can forward to anyone that wants it, it's got a little more info, I'm on a fast line, so forwarding it isn't a problem for me. Zane From: "J. Darren Peterson" <jdarren(a)ala.net> I'd like to find a home for this book instead of trashing it. I'll send it to anyone for the cost of shipping. Penril Corporation 300/1200 Data Modem Operations Manual, December 1982 The manual is 8.5-inches x 11-inches in size, .5-inch thick, soft cover, in very good condition, and has five sections and two appendices. The sections are (1) Introduction, (2) Installation, (3) Operating Instructions, (4) Maintenance, and (5) Fault Isolation and Diagnostic Tests. The appendices are (1) Selectable Options Descriptions and (2) Functional Notes. | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 4 months

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Pomona CA hamfest, Sat (now) ASR33

by mikeford＠socal.rr.com

Last month at the Cal Poly Pomona hamfest I noticed one of the hams had a sign on the back of his car "Teletype 33 forsale", never found him at his spot though for any details, and the spot watcher didn't know anything. 3rd Saturday of the month, TODAY, is the hamfest at Cal Poly Pomona in soCal. I will be on a short leash, arriving a little after 7, and scheduled to be shot if I am not gone shortly after 9 am. Look for a big nerd with a bucket, stupid hat is optional (mine, not yours).

26 years, 4 months

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YASBC Update

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: I've posted the schematics and the beginnings of a kernel tonight. The c ode is not to a point where I can simulate it yet, but I have the reset, NMI , and IRQ routines done, as well as necessary modifications to Chris Ward's ACIA and Dallas RTC code. Please look at the schematics. There are 9 PDF files containing the 8 sc hematics and a component mask. I appologize in advance for using PDFs for sc hematics, but I've found that it's easier to print from EDWin to the PDF Wri ter driver and then to the printer than directly to the printer itself. See if there is anything glaring that I've missed. At this point, the My 6502 feature set is "frozen", but I'm open to circuit optimization ideas. I' ve gotten the board down to 6.5" x 7.5". When you look at it, you'll see tha t it's stuffed. Enjoy it and let me know what you think. Rich [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW1 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ <================ reply separator =================>

26 years, 4 months

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WTB: 5 1/4" Magneto Optical Cartridges

by mark_k＠iname.com

On Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:09:39 Joe wrote: > >>Jerome, > >> > >> What are you going to use the MO drive on? Just curious. I have a > >>SMO-501 also. It's SLOW!! The transfer rate and access time are WORSE > >>than a floppy drive. > > > >They weren't that slow. > > Mine is. The access time is something close to 100ms. The transfer rate > is about 2/3 that of a floppy drive. There is probably something wrong with your drive or disks. Try cleaning the surface of your disks, and if that doesn't help you might want to clean the drive lens. For this you can either obtain the appropriate lens cleaning cartridge (I can find the part number for this if necessary), or disassemble the drive to expose the lens and clean it manually. Using a cleaning cartridge is be less risky. If your disks are old, low-level format them after cleaning. >From memory, the (read) data transfer rate of my SMO-S501-11 drive with 600MB media is about 600K/sec; similar to a quad-speed CD-ROM. To put the access time into perspective, it is similar to that of a modern DVD-RAM drive. -- Mark

26 years, 4 months

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scroungers -- a new chalenge

by edick＠idcomm.com

There's a tool made specifically for attaching ICD connectors that costs only $15-16. That's quite a bit less than what the fixe-grips cost. They're a parallel-jawed arrangement made of cleverly formed black sheet metal with a yellow plastic seat that fits in the jaws, hinged at the end, like a nutcracker, and which works MUCH better, faster, and more easily than a vise, plier, even a parallel-jawed pair, as they're usually too small. That seat is almost perfect, but it has a relief for the index tab in the middle of the odd-numbered side of most IDC connectors, but it won't take the ones with two such tabs. I've never seen one of these blister-packed wonders cost more than $19.95, and bought mine for $15 or so. Dick -----Original Message----- From: John Wilson <wilson(a)dbit.dbit.com> To: classiccmp <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Friday, February 18, 2000 7:28 PM Subject: Re: scroungers -- a new chalenge >On Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 06:00:51PM -0700, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: >> IDC cables are pretty easy to crimp with a panavise, or bench vise and >> nylon jaws. > >Or a "duckbill" vice grip, available at welding supply shops and some auto >parts shops. Works nicely, and not too strong... A vice is OK but you >have to be really careful to listen for the clicks, the first one is the >connector seating, the second one is the connector shattering! > >John Wilson >D Bit

26 years, 4 months

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TC11, TU56, was :(Re: WTB: 5 1/4" Magneto Optical Cartridges

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: John Wilson <wilson(a)dbit.dbit.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Friday, February 18, 2000 1:01 PM Subject: Re: WTB: 5 1/4" Magneto Optical Cartridges >On Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 10:56:44AM -0500, John B wrote: >> If you had said DECTape drives then I probably would have taken you up on >> it. I can *now* truly appreciate why many dec engineers, field service, and >> prior dec employees all call them junk. Many have been guilty of using >> Luttig's name in vane... now, me too! >> >> I wonder if TU56s float? > >What do you mean? Just because they break down a lot and have an ECO list a >mile long? Doesn't matter! Doesn't matter? People generally rate an old piece of equipment by the way it performed.. Most tape drives in the late 1960's were *not* that bad. > They're one of the coolest peripherals around >anyway! It's amazing the lengths DEC went to, to have a cheap removable >medium that only *slightly* pre-dated floppy disks. They made DECTape type drives since '62.. (555), TU55, then (after one would *think* they would get it right)... the TU56. > But then again they had >no choice... My only complaint is that the TC11 backplane has a full-height >bracket on only one side, if you take it out of the rack then the two halves >of the other side of the backplane is being held together by the wire wrap >wire alone. Solution -- don't ever take it out of the rack! That was not a blunder - it was a feature. DEC *knew* the drives were horrible so it only seemed fair to implement an upgrade strategy for the customer. One too many breakdowns... customer pulls the left side of the TC11 down and... presto! customer now has a valid reason to replace the entire tape system. I am working on a TC11 this very minute :-( I have a few to restore > And only DEC >would make a pretty lights 'n switches control panel and then hide it behind >a black block-out panel. DEC did a good job creating flashing light panels ... but, how many times did DEC want to light up a customers computer room with ENDZ, PAR, and other fault lights? This is the *only* lightbulb status panel they ever hid, wasn't it? > >Anyway I promise you TU56s don't float, not by a long shot! I know many DEC customers tried. Some also tried extreme heat or pressure... or both! ;-) I really feel sorry for the field service guy now... to take abuse from a customer looking over his shoulder while trying to repair *another* bad DECTape drive... BTW: Do you have a TC11 _working_ ? john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com > >John Wilson >D Bit >

26 years, 4 months

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Software Results Corp Unibus 68000 board?

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com wrote: > >> I just found a "Software Results Corporation" Unibus board... > > > Cool. > > Even cooler that you know all about it :-). There aren't many people in the world who know more than I (at this point, probably nobody ;-) I never expected anyone to ever want to use this stuff ever again. > > Out of perverse curiosity, what's the S/N? > > SN 1245, Rev 3.0. I almost certainly made that board. I started there around 700-800. I even seem to remember that particular one. When I get around to snarfing up the backup tapes and sticking them on CD, I'll be sure to look that one up. It really does ring a bell. We only made that model up to around 1300-1400, IIRC (yes, starting at "1"; I still have some working Rev 1 boards with double digit serial numbers). The dates of the chips do _not_ reflect the manufacturing date, BTW. At one point, we had several *years* supplies of certain ICs due to aggressive overbuying by our comptroller to avoid the shortages that plagued us in the early days. It's why we had *tubes* of 50256 DRAMs that bought at $80 per chip that didn't get used until the price had fallen to $35 per chip. :-( Some of those same chips later ended up in my Amiga when I salvaged an engineering prototype from the dumpster. I know which ones they are by the hand-drawn "U number" identifying labels still stuck to the tops. > >I have all the software, firmware, schematics, wire-wrap prototypes... > > In that case, would anyone else on the list want to grab it? I haven't exactly agreed to post this stuff. It's a massive clot of MACRO, 68K assembler and C code that while not exactly commercially viable would be a major pain on my part to package up to be useful to anyone. As an employee, it took me weeks on the clock to get things to the point where I could build the software from scratch. Also, the C compiler used by the COMBOARD-I products is *not* VAX-C, it's Whitesmith's C and AFAIK I don't have the power to grant those licenses (SRC did, but the corporation dissolved years ago). We never ported our older products to VAX-C, only the newer Qbus and VAX-BI products. There was no point - the customer received binaries and _we_ had no problem using a 12-year-old compiler for 12-year-old code. It was ancient tools, but to the final days, I could incorporate changes to the source and have a new production tree ready to ship in 5 hours of disk thrashing (from typing *one* build command, I might add!) In short, it's possibly of archeological use, but unless you *really* want to speak Bisync to some IBM hardware with VMS 4.5 - 5.4, I don't know how useful any of it would be. There is source code for PDP-11 products, but I am even less confident of being able to even make a working binary distribution tape. I _have_ all the stuff but I haven't done a single thing with it since 1994. The original Unibus board is historically fascinating, but not very extensible. There's a later Unibus board, the COMBOARD-II, that has an entirely different and incompatible DMA interface (transparent to the user because those details are hidden in the driver) with 128K of 4164 DRAMs, but the same printer interface and COM5025. For me, at least, our final products, the COMBOARD-Q (Qbus w/Z8530 Dual SIO and 512K RAM) or the COMBOARD-BI (10Mhz 68010, BI interface, 2Mb RAM and Z8530) are the ones most likely to be turned into something interesting. Unfortunately, the worlds supply of available Q-boards (as we called them in-house) is approximately two, and one of *those* was removed from the walls of the trade show booth, and is lacking in the basic ECOs to be operational. I have crates of COMBOARD-I and COMBOARD-II models, but I do not have a working test bed since my DWBUA BI-to-Unibus adapter board smoked. :-( The VAX 8300 works just fine, but I have no way to test Unibus boards beyond basic boot functions in a PDP-11 test bed (with that Fluke 9010 that's been mentioned in the other thread). Sorry to rain on your parade, but given the freeze-dried nature of the software, you'd have to present a pretty convincing argument for me to divert the tens of hours it would take to whip up something useful and even then, you'd need at least another COMBOARD and modem-eliminator to do as much as demonstrate it (we used to use two COMBOARDs, of any variety, to move files between VAXen - SRC never evolved to using any sort of modern LAN technology like Ethernet - we had point-to-point Bisync links, at cost, between any machines we cared to have). > >Unless I am seriously misinformed, this board was the first single-board > >DMA device for the Unibus. > > The RL11 and RX211 both date from 1978 or so and do DMA from a single Unibus > slot. Seeing how the date on this 68000 board is 1982, does this mean that > a predecessor to this board was being made in 1978 or earlier? Well... The PCB you have is Rev 3. The Rev 1 boards are dated 1979, and the initial prototype originally had a .6" wide socket for the XC68000 processor because it was designed from the preliminary spec sheets from Motorola. It was quite a surprise to the COMBOARD-I designers when they learned that the chip was 1" wide! What may have happened is that the COMBOARD-I was designed before the RL11 or RX211 were available to the public, creating the external appearance that they were first. I am pretty certain that SRC had dual-height grant cards before DEC did because we had our own part number for them. The older, tiny DEC cards were GC727 cards and we called ours the "GC747" card because it was bigger (like Boeing airplanes). I've described the GC747 on the list before - the PCB itself had a built-in curved T-handle at the top and was stencilled in red with a face of a dinosaur and was called the "Grantasaurus Rex". It even made an appearance in a photo in "The DEC Professional", but there's no way I could cite issue and page numbers. As soon as I get my flatbed scanner back from loan, I'll slap it and the COMBOARD line on it and make some scans for the Field Guide. I at least have time to do that. I did find the "COMBOARD PROGRAMMER'S AND MAINTENANCE MANUAL" and the "COMBOARD HARDWARE SELF-INSTALLATION SUPPLIMENT" guides (35 double-sided pages, combined). I'd pass them along for the cost of duplicating/shipping. I could scan them, too, if anyone _really_ wanted to put third-party docs up on a web page. Trivia note: COMBOARDs met VAXen when a customer of DEC who was also a customer of Software Results Corp declined to buy a VAX unless it could talk to the IBM mainframe as well as the PDP-11 he already had. Because DEC wanted to migrate their customer base, one of the founders of Software Results went to Maynard to port the software. I'm told that he used VAX-11/780 S/N 6 for his efforts, a DEC in-house sales demo machine. Our hero was apparently puzzled that the sales staff was upset that he kept crashing the machine during driver development *while they were attempting customer demos* On most of our boards, there was our 800 number for service - 1-800-SRC-DATA. Up until a couple of years ago, it rang to my home office number. I finally disconnected it when I had no more paying customers and was tired of getting billed for other people calling the wrong number. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

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Fluke 9010 Micro-System Troubleshooter ??

by aek＠spies.com

"Has anyone else got one other than Al and Jeff?" Yes, there are a bunch of arcade game collectors that have them. "Has anyone ever tried to built the probe for one?" Not that I know of. The probes always get separated from the units (along with the docs and pods). The probes are going for big bucks on eBay ($75-$100). Popular pods (6502,6809,Z80,68K) sell pretty high there as well. Of course, what this stuff sells for on eBay is LOW compared to what the used test equipment scalpers want for them ($250 and up for pods). 9010s are very useful when you're trying to debug embedded hardware (like video game boards) that have no I/O "Has anyone ever tried to repair the tape drive capstans on them?" They are Braemar mini-data cassette drives, you may still be able to get parts from them, and cassettes (which are NOT the same as mini dictation cassettes)

26 years, 4 months

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HP 3000 MPE V: notes on Y2K Safe release

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> wrote: > Since it's not too far away, I was thinking about grabbing the > system. So, can I use my 3000/42 FOS tapes to reinstall the OS on > the 37? Stan Sieler got me to re-read one of my manuals. I'm still not sure what it looks like on the tape, but it looks like a bootable tape can contain multiple WCS loads for different models of CPU and still support the models that have microcode in ROM. So this can work, if the /37 microcode is in its place on the FOS tape, and I think that's pretty likely for a (probably mass-produced) FOS tape. -Frank McConnell

26 years, 4 months

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WTB: 5 1/4" Magneto Optical Cartridges

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Thursday, February 17, 2000 2:28 PM Subject: Re: WTB: 5 1/4" Magneto Optical Cartridges >At 11:16 AM 2/17/00 -0500, John B wrote: >>I am looking to buy one again now. I would like to back up all this dec >>software on them. I know the data won't be lost if it goes on one of those >>drives. I feel bad now because I chucked it in the garbage a couple of years >>ago.... It had a carrying case and 12 platters :-( > >I'll trade you a couple of MO drives for a PDP 11/20 with 8K of core :-) >--Chuck > Cute Chuck! I got quite a bit of interest for a "straight-11".. more than I thought. I know you indicated interest in one. When I know how many I will have total (first week in March) then I will set aside a couple for list members.. No idea what to trade or how much yet. But............................. If you had said DECTape drives then I probably would have taken you up on it. I can *now* truly appreciate why many dec engineers, field service, and prior dec employees all call them junk. Many have been guilty of using Luttig's name in vane... now, me too! I wonder if TU56s float? john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com >

26 years, 4 months

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Source code for BASIC

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Looking at the tape, I see that the words "END OF FILE BAS65.PTP" >are punched at the end of the tape in sort of pseudo dot-matrix >characters. Does the "PTP" extension tell us anything? "Paper TaPe" in DEC-ese. > Looking at >the start of the tape: >"MICRO-SOFT BAS65.PTP [2601,1260] 29-JUL-77 15:27:58" That makes sense, Microsoft was cross-assembling on PDP-10's at the time, and [2601,1260] would be the PPN code for an account. For the first couple of years Microsoft was using the hyphenated form. >Looking through the first few feet of "real data"... > >No high bits, the first few bytes are: >00111011 x3b ';' (was hoping for the start of an assembly comment) >00110010 x32 '2' (nope, looks like some sort of hex...) >00110000 x30 '0' >01000001 x41 'A' >00110000 x30 '0' >00110000 x30 '0' >00110000 x30 '0' >00110011 x33 '3' >00111001 x39 '9' >01000001 x41 'A' That makes some sense, "20" is the 6502 opcode for a JSR (jump to subroutine). The next two bytes are presumably the subroutine's address, and "39" is the 6502 opcode for an AND abolute,Y instruction. Tim.

26 years, 4 months

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Dumpster stories!

by Innfogra＠aol.com

The best dumpster I ever hit was a ComputerLand in San Mateo when they went out of business in the early 90s. I went to their going out of business sale and realized they would have lots of leftovers. After the sale I filled my Honda car two nights in a row, spending about 3 to 4 hrs a night burrowing >from one end of their dumpster to the other. The second night I had so much jammed into the Honda there was barely room for me. The passenger seat was so full it towered over me as I was driving. I barely made it back over the bridge to Hayward, where I was staying. I had to use one hand to keep the stuff from collapsing on me. All PC stuff of course. After they realized that someone was dumpster diving they broke every card they put in. >From 1990 to 1992 I regularly checked Microware's Beaverton, OR dumpster. They were a major west coast distributor until they had financial trouble >from expanding too fast. Ross-Dove held a huge liquidation auction which had some very good trash. I pulled quite a few brand new motherboards, cards and hard drives in boxes from that dumpster. Also in the early 90s Mentor Graphics was liquidating lots of Apollo 100, 300, 400 and 600 boxes. I pulled a bunch of circuit cards and software from the dumpster at their auxiliary storage. It was so interesting I started checking their main plant until security chased me away. My recommendation is to check computer businesses going out of business. Computer manufacturers going out of business or downsizing are also good. Check the major auctions like Ross Dove that happen in your area. Computer distributors often have good dumpsters also. My favorite story though is one of my scrapper friends. He had some Chinese buyers visiting him. They had gone through his yard in Bend and were on their way to Portland. Cruising through the industrial area of Albany he spotted a dumpster full of good scrap wire. While he wanted to look he wasn't sure of how these Chinese businessmen would take it. He decided what the hell and pulled his truck up beside the dumpster. Needless to say the Chinese were the first on top of the dumpster happily yarding the scrap into the truck. They were having a great time until the local police showed up and made them put all the wire back in the dumpster. I bet it made for great stories back home. Dumpster diving is lots of fun. Especially if you just dive in. Paxton

26 years, 4 months

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Macintosh Portable problems

by netsurfer_x1＠hotmail.com

>I assume you used sealed lead-acid batteries? > >-Mike Yep, I uesd the exact type of batteries ("Cyclon" 2V, 5.0 Ah cells) that were originally in it. They are new cells. I am tempted to believe that the AC Adaptor/Charger has gone south on me. ____________________________________________________________ David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, Double FDD, GeoRAM 512, Okimate 20. "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. ____________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 4 months

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HP 3000 MPE V: notes on Y2K Safe release

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

On Tuesday, February 15, 2000 11:29 PM, Joe [SMTP:rigdonj@intellistar.net] wrote: > Hi, > > I spotted a HP 3000 system 37 today in a scrap place. It has two HP 7963 > drives and a bunch of other stuff that I don't recognize. Can anyone tell > me something about them? > Question for the HP gurus: Since it's not too far away, I was thinking about grabbing the system. So, can I use my 3000/42 FOS tapes to reinstall the OS on the 37? Thanks. Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 4 months

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Software Results Corp Unibus 68000 board?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> I just found a "Software Results Corporation" Unibus >> (hex-height) board with an array of 32 2114 memory chips and >> a big fat 68000 chip on it. There's a COM5025 (UART?) and two >> 40-pin headers on the edge. >Yup. Cool. Even cooler that you know all about it :-). > Out of perverse curiosity, what's the S/N? I can eventually >look it up and tell you who used to own it. I might have even been the >guy that pulled the parts from inventory and tested the finished product. SN 1245, Rev 3.0. There's a handwritten "O" before the "CBD-X31" designation on the board. >I have all the software, firmware, schematics, wire-wrap prototypes, >*everything* for them. Unless you want to speak 3780 or HASP to some other >device from your Unibus PDP-11 or VAX, that board is useless. In that case, would anyone else on the list want to grab it? >Unless I am seriously misinformed, this board was the first single-board >DMA device for the Unibus. The RL11 and RX211 both date from 1978 or so and do DMA from a single Unibus slot. Seeing how the date on this 68000 board is 1982, does this mean that a predecessor to this board was being made in 1978 or earlier? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

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Fluke 9010 Micro-System Troubleshooter ??

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Al Kossow <aek(a)spies.com> wrote: > "Has anyone else got one other than Al and Jeff?" > > Yes, there are a bunch of arcade game collectors that have them. Me. > "Has anyone ever tried to built the probe for one?" No. > Not that I know of. The probes always get separated from the > units (along with the docs and pods). The probes are going for > big bucks on eBay ($75-$100). Popular pods (6502,6809,Z80,68K) > sell pretty high there as well. I have only the 68000 pod. I'd *love* to land a 6502 pod. I would get some serious use. Mine came from Software Results Corp. (see other thread) and was used for testing COMBOARDs. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

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Software Results Corp Unibus 68000 board?

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com wrote: > Hi folks, > > I just found a "Software Results Corporation" Unibus > (hex-height) board with an array of 32 2114 memory chips and > a big fat 68000 chip on it. There's a COM5025 (UART?) and two > 40-pin headers on the edge. Yup. Cool. Out of perverse curiosity, what's the S/N? I can eventually look it up and tell you who used to own it. I might have even been the guy that pulled the parts from inventory and tested the finished product. > Date codes are from early 1984, > and there's a surprising amount of 54LS (and no 74LS) logic on the > board, leading me to think that this may have been intended for the > military market. Nope... the company got tired of snooping down bad chips. The boards were a couple of grand, customer cost, so MIL-SPEC chips were not a horrible cut into the profit margin and were, at the time, individually tested. It saved enough on labor to be worth the expense. > Is this, by any chance, a coprocessor type board, or is it a > "master" CPU? It is an intellegent synchronous serial card with onboard line-printer capability. On a RSTS/E system, you could avoid spooling jobs through the system line printer queue, saving many CPU cycles. We used to hang LA-180's right off of the printer port or sell a printer adapter for Dataproducts interfaced printers. > Am I imagining things, or has "Software Results Corporation" > been mentioned on this list recently? Yes. I was hired there in 1984 and eventually bought the name and rights to the software/hardware/customer list and provided service between 1993 and 1995 to all the customers who bought them in the 1980s (by 1990 sales were effectively non-existant except for upgrades). Coincidentally, SRC was the company that took out the full page back ad on "CPU Wars", now on the web at http://www.e-pix.com/CPUWARS/cpuwars.html I have all the software, firmware, schematics, wire-wrap prototypes, *everything* for them. Unless you want to speak 3780 or HASP to some other device from your Unibus PDP-11 or VAX, that board is useless. The dual 6309 PROMs are only smart enough to feed more complicated programs through a CSR window into the 16K of SRAM. Even simple diagnostics are downloaded at runtime, character by character. In its protocol emulation mode, it uses 16-bit DMA to feed buffers back and forth. Unless I am seriously misinformed, this board was the first single-board DMA device for the Unibus. Software Results pioneered the removal of the NPR jumper to allow such things to work (prior to this, DMA devices were one _backplane_ that broke grant between the input and output Unibus cables). We had to ship dual-height grant cards to accomodate the absence of the board when it was removed for diagnostic or repair purposes. More trivia: this board uses SRAM because of two early DRAM problems. Intel RAM was having higher than expected single bit errors (thought at first to be cosmic rays, but later proven to be stray alpha particles emitted from the minute quantities of radioactive materials in the ceramic packages). Additionally, the first batch of 68K CPU chips (my old boss still has XC68000 S/N 424, yes, there is a serial number engraved on the lid) had microcode glitches that caused longer than advertised bus cycles. For those designers that borrowed/copied/migrated existing Z-80 refresh schemes, the outages were long enough to interfere in some cases, causing catastrophic memory loss. SRC went with 2114s for reliability. ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

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Fluke 9010 Micro-System Troubleshooter ??

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<What do you think of them? Has anyone ever tried to repair the tape drive <capstans on them? Has anyone ever tried to built the probe for one? BTW <these date from around 1981 and are powered by Z-80s so they're on-topic. Simple fix. Scrape off the black goo or orange goo. then use a little superglue to anchor some plastic or rubber tubing over the metal hub to get the original diameter (some error is acceptable). I do this on TU58s all the time. Allison

26 years, 4 months

1
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TOUCH for DOS/Windows

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

If anyone wants this utility, I can put a copy on my highgate machine for general access. Kevin On Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:58:04 EST classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org wrote: > "Richard A. Cini, Jr." <rcini(a)msn.com> asked: > > > Is there a DOS or Windows utility similar to the Unix TOUCH utility?? > > Borland included TOUCH with their Turbo Pascal and Turbo C packages. > > Also there was a version available thru PC Magazine, created circa 1988 > by Michael J. Mefford. If your like most, you probably got some floppies > full of utilities that PCMag was always putting out. > > Here is the syntax for the PCMag version: > > TOUCH filespec [/D date] [/T time] > date = month-day-year > time = hour[:minutes[:seconds]] > Default is system date and time. > > Mike

26 years, 4 months

2
1
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Software Results Corp Unibus 68000 board?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

Hi folks, I just found a "Software Results Corporation" Unibus (hex-height) board with an array of 32 2114 memory chips and a big fat 68000 chip on it. There's a COM5025 (UART?) and two 40-pin headers on the edge. Date codes are from early 1984, and there's a surprising amount of 54LS (and no 74LS) logic on the board, leading me to think that this may have been intended for the military market. Is this, by any chance, a coprocessor type board, or is it a "master" CPU? Am I imagining things, or has "Software Results Corporation" been mentioned on this list recently? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

1
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Source code for BASIC

by rcini＠msn.com

Here's another question...does anyone have a pointer to the source code for a 6502-based BASIC interpreter that's ROMable? Rich [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW1 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ <================ reply separator =================>

26 years, 4 months

6
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4 - TK50 Drives Available

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Hi Group: I have four TK50 tape drives available as surplus. All were working spares from a local DEC installation. I already have too many and have to get rid of these. Here's the deal. A nominal amount (US$10 ea), and you pay shipping. Please email me directly if you're interested in one or more. Kevin

26 years, 4 months

1
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Send/Receive (BAUDOT) in GWBASIC (was Ham Stats)

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

On Thu, 17 Feb 2000 18:29:59 +0000 (GMT) classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org wrote: > A word of warning for anyone trying to use the code that was below on a PC. > Firstly the PCjr serial port is at 0x2F8 (==COM2 on most PCs). Secondly, > and more importantly, the master clock fed to the chip in the PCjr is > different to that used in PCs (and PC/XTs, PC/ATs, etc). Therefore you'll > need to recalculate the baud rate divisors if you want to use it on a PC. I calculated the divisors in the program by hand, extrapolating from the values given in the technical reference for standard, higher baud rates. Kevin

26 years, 4 months

2
1
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WTB: 5 1/4" Magneto Optical Cartridges

by dylanb＠sympatico.ca

-----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Thursday, February 17, 2000 11:45 AM Subject: Re: WTB: 5 1/4" Magneto Optical Cartridges >Jerome, > > What are you going to use the MO drive on? Just curious. I have a >SMO-501 also. It's SLOW!! The transfer rate and access time are WORSE than >a floppy drive. They weren't that slow. We got some Beta units at the leg. for our Mac platform. I used one as my *primary* drive for years. Was nice as I could swap my development platters (MPW versions, other test junk) instantly. I never lost data and they were very reliable... more reliable than the hard drives at the time! I am looking to buy one again now. I would like to back up all this dec software on them. I know the data won't be lost if it goes on one of those drives. I feel bad now because I chucked it in the garbage a couple of years ago.... It had a carrying case and 12 platters :-( john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com

26 years, 4 months

3
2
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Honeywell 316s? Re: Honeywell Level 6 Mainframe

by aek＠spies.com

IBM developed the front loading 2315 disc drive in the 60's, and is the basis for Diablo 31, Wanco, Pertec, HP 7900, and DEC RK05 2.5Mb single platter removable disc drives. >Pertec Blue, I would suspect someone would want them for their Altair 8800b's No, these aren't floppy drives. I know.. take a look at the Pertec adds in Byte in the early 80's, and there should be pictures of these drives in configurations with late MITS systems after MITS was bought by Pertec. Plessey also sold Pertec drives with their clone of the RK-11 disc controller.

26 years, 4 months

2
1
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Subject: Re: TOUCH for DOS/Windows

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

"Richard A. Cini, Jr." <rcini(a)msn.com> asked: > Is there a DOS or Windows utility similar to the Unix TOUCH utility?? Borland included TOUCH with their Turbo Pascal and Turbo C packages. Also there was a version available thru PC Magazine, created circa 1988 by Michael J. Mefford. If your like most, you probably got some floppies full of utilities that PCMag was always putting out. Here is the syntax for the PCMag version: TOUCH filespec [/D date] [/T time] date = month-day-year time = hour[:minutes[:seconds]] Default is system date and time. Mike

26 years, 4 months

1
0
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Harddisk DEC DSP3210S

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

"J.-P. Hofer" <hofer(a)wgh.ch> wrote: > I am looking for technical information about a SCSI harddisk > DEC DSP3210S. > Does anyone have some details about jumper settings, capacity and > other specifications ? Physical-Log. Modes UNFORMAT WIDTH PLs CYLS CYLS INTERFACE AVG. CACHE PIO MODEL NUMBER FORMAT'D HGT. HDs PRCP HDs REC.METH. TK-TK RPM DMA HA. S/T L-ZN S/T COMMENTS AND ADITIONAL INFO. REV ============================================================================= 2688.0MB 3.50 8 3045 SCSI-2F 10ms 1024KB 2148.0MB 41.4 16 NONE (1,7)RLL 1.0ms 5,400 DSP3210 VC MZ AUTO R/S ECC, 59-119 SECTORS/TRACK _____________________________________________________________________________

26 years, 4 months

1
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HP 3000 MPE V: notes on Y2K Safe release

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> wrote: > On Tuesday, February 15, 2000 11:29 PM, Joe [SMTP:rigdonj@intellistar.net] wrote: > > I spotted a HP 3000 system 37 today in a scrap place. It has two HP 7963 > > Question for the HP gurus: > > Since it's not too far away, I was thinking about grabbing the > system. So, can I use my 3000/42 FOS tapes to reinstall the OS on > the 37? Good question. I'm not sure. The 37 has writable control store and so when it boots from tape I think it will want to find a WCS image in the SYSDUMP prefix on the tape. Would the 42 FOS tapes have that WCS image? I suspect there need to be at least two different types of MPE V/E FOS tapes to boot all 3000s supporting MPE V/E: one for 37s (and maybe for the various Micro 3000s -- do they use the same microinstructions and WCS images?), one for 64?/68/70s, and maybe one for the non-WCS 3000s. -Frank McConnell

26 years, 4 months

1
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TOUCH for DOS/Windows

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: Is there a DOS or Windows utility similar to the Unix TOUCH utility?? Rich [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW1 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ <================ reply separator =================>

26 years, 4 months

5
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HP 3000 MPE V: notes on Y2K Safe release

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

On Tuesday, February 08, 2000 7:33 PM, Stan Sieler [SMTP:ss@allegro.com] wrote: > Hi, > > If you have a Classic HP 3000 (any two-digit model #), > and if you received the "Y2K Safe" release of MPE recently, > and if you haven't installed it yet, > I have some notes that you should find interesting. > > (If you didn't get your Y2K Safe MPE V (which was free!), > email Allan Hertling at allan_hertling(a)hp.com) > > Thanks for the info Stan, I sent an email to Allan asking about the upgrade and he was EXTREMELY helpful. My system (HP 3000/42 Classic) did not have any patches applied for a very long time so, he's gonna send the whole package. The best part is it's absolutely FREE! All in all, HP has been extremely helpful in providing upgrades for my 3000 and 9000s. Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 4 months

3
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WTB: 5 1/4" Magneto Optical Cartridges

by edick＠idcomm.com

A friend of mine and I had about a dozen of those SMO-501's back in about '89 or '90. We cleaned and upgraded them. Their performance on a PC of that era was comparable to the previous generation of PC-based SCSI hard disks. It was not impressive, but it wasn't terribly slow. We had so much trouble keeping them at $1k each that I never used one myself at all. They were just too valuable to keep. From what I remember, their performance was more or less comparable to my Iomega 8" Bernoulli Boxes, though they were MUCH larger in capacity. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:53 AM Subject: Re: WTB: 5 1/4" Magneto Optical Cartridges >Jerome, > > What are you going to use the MO drive on? Just curious. I have a >SMO-501 also. It's SLOW!! The transfer rate and access time are WORSE than >a floppy drive. > > Joe > >At 03:10 PM 2/16/00 -0500, you wrote: >>I am looking for a source for the 600 Mbyte magneto optical >>5 1/4" cartridges with 512 byte per sector. Tim Shoppa >>has mentioned in the past that he might know where I can >>find some. Does anyone else? These will be used in a >>SONY SMO S-501 5 1/4" magneto optical disk drive. >> >>I have checked eBay, but they are usually sold as is? >> >>Sincerely yours, >> >>Jerome Fine >> >> >

26 years, 4 months

1
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WTB: 5 1/4" Magneto Optical Cartridges

by jhfine＠idirect.com

I am looking for a source for the 600 Mbyte magneto optical 5 1/4" cartridges with 512 byte per sector. Tim Shoppa has mentioned in the past that he might know where I can find some. Does anyone else? These will be used in a SONY SMO S-501 5 1/4" magneto optical disk drive. I have checked eBay, but they are usually sold as is? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine

26 years, 4 months

3
3
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Send/Receive (BAUDOT) in GWBASIC (was Ham Stats)

by kees.stravers＠iae.nl

On 2000-02-16 classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org said to kees.stravers(a)iae.nl cl>Hi Gang: cl>Further to this discussion of 5 bit characters on a DL11, this was cl>also possible on the PCjr. I wrote a BASIC send/receive RTTY cl>program for the PCjr in 1985. It used an esoteric mode of the cl>particular serial chip on the PCjr, to support 5 data bits and 1.5 cl>stop bits. The DTR pin of the serial port was used to toggle the cl>radio from transmit to receive. My modem was homebrew, built around cl>an XR2211 (IIRC) chip. I still have the modem buried in the cl>crawlspace somewhere. This was also possible with the serial port of a regular PC. I have been running a RTTY BBS on 144 MHz for 10 years, based on a TRS-80 Model I program I ported to the PC and extended. My program even had an interface to the nearest packet radio BBS, so RTTY users could exchange mail with packet users, and later the system could also communicate in CW (morse code) so you could send emails without having a computer. But nobody uses RTTY anymore, and even CW is on the decline, so I have taken the BBS down, no more users. Kees -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers(a)iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ My home page http://www.vaxarchive.org/ Info on old DEC VAX computers Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered

26 years, 4 months

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virtual hamfest was Re: couple of books, spring cleaning

by wrm＠ccii.co.za

Ack! I said: >dahdidit dit dahdahdidah dididit didahdahdahdah dahdidah dit >didahdidahdit dahdidah. And of course it should be dahdahdidit dididit, d?mmit! Shows you how long ago I've played with my radios! Wouter "Where's QS1 anyway" ZS1KE

26 years, 4 months

1
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Ham population stats

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- John Wilson <wilson(a)dbit.dbit.com> wrote: > On Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 06:44:14PM +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > > Hmmm.. I've tried to learn morse several times, and failed every single > > time. I don't know why, but it just doesn't seem to 'click' with me. > > Well, having an actual use for it makes it a lot easier to remember. My > best friend and I learned Morse code in 6th grade so that we could pass > notes in class that no one could understand. Naturally that later fizzled, > the 7th grade teacher was a ham and the 8th grade teacher was a radio > operator in the Norwegian underground in WW2, so much for that idea! My younger brother did that as a kid, too. The teacher tapped back "cut it out" when they tried it during a test. > I *always* wanted to do that, I actually bought a DUP11 years ago for this > purpose but never dug up documentation on it until recently. You'd need to > build some kind of external clock (PLL really I guess) that synchronized to > the bit transitions of AX.25, shouldn't be a very big deal though. My knowledge of sync serial comes from years of working with third party devices on DEC equipment, but here goes... If the DUP-11 has a COM5025 serial chip on it then what it's expecting is something like a "standard" bit-rate on its input connector. With the right cable, I'd expect to feed it clocking through pins 15 and 17 on a DB-25 at EIA levels (+/- 12VDC). We used to have racks of "modem eliminators" that were effectively null-modem devices that would provide clocks to DTE equipment on both sides. There were typically various options to set as well, bit rate being chief among them. Most of ours were set to between 9600 and 56Kbps with a couple set to 64kpbs and one to 128kbps for reproducing environments of our European customers. Sync serial has no start bits, no stop bits, just bits. With protocols like SDLC, there's a "flag byte" of 0x7E (0111 1110) that the receiving hardware uses to determine the start and stop of a packet. One efficiency of sync hardware is you aren't trasmitting 10 bits to communicate 8. The downside is extra hardware on both ends and slightly more expensive cables to send it all. If I'm confusing the DUP-11 with other DEC cards that use the COM5025, sorry. The original Software Results Corp. COMBOARD used that chip because it was identical to whatever Qbus card we used to use when we were shipping the HASPBOX (a PDP-11 with sync serial and a DPV-11 to communicate via parallel to a PDP-11/70 or VAX-11/7xx). > Stupid question: what comes out of the other side of a ham TNC these days? > It used to be Bell 202 modem tones at 1200 baud HDX, over an FM voice signal, > it *can't* still be that easy though can it? In the 2 meter band in the U.S., at least, Hams are restricted to 1200 baud. AFAIK, it is that simple. There are "pocket TNCs" that are little more than audio modulator circuits that depend on the CPU in your PeeCee to produce a valid AX.25 bitstream. I've seen it work with an HP-95LX - "pocket packet". -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

5
5
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FW: DigiData 9-tracker, I/F, and software for sale

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Found this fellow advertising in a ham radio group. I've given him some correction on that, and offered to forward what he has to the list. I'm no DigiData expert, but he tells me that the driver software that comes with the drive is DOS-based. This tells me it's either SCSI or Pertec (SCSI most likely), and decent SCSI 9-trackers are rare. He's in Durham, NC, and I doubt he'd be looking for a mint on this thing. Whoever wants a crack at this, please contact him directly. -=-=- <break> -=-=- >>For Sale, best offer: >> >>9-track tape drive, rack-mount >>Digidata Corp, model 1749-86-4-120-FD-UL >>w/ software, 8-10"reels, 6-8" reels >>in good working condition "Chris Slacke" <drivetime(a)mindspring.com> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

26 years, 4 months

1
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Source code for BASIC

by paulrsm＠ameritech.net

The Merlin assembler for the Apple II came with a demo program that would disassemble the Applesoft BASIC ROMs, with comments. I can provide this disassembly to you. I think Microsoft sold their 6502 BASIC to Commodore, complete with source code. Commodore was then able to change the code as needed for their various 6502 computers. ---------- > From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. <rcini(a)msn.com> > To: ClassCompList <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> > Subject: Source code for BASIC > Date: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 08:42 PM > > Here's another question...does anyone have a pointer to the source code for > a 6502-based BASIC interpreter that's ROMable?

26 years, 4 months

1
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WTB: 5 1/4" Magneto Optical Cartridges

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

Jerome, Well if you need 1.3 GB ones, I have 90-something, mostly used but a few are new... all are rewriteable MO disks, all are HP Will J ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 4 months

1
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Ham population stats

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- "Shawn T. Rutledge" <rutledge(a)cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> wrote: > On Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 04:31:51PM -0800, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > In the 2 meter band in the U.S., at least, Hams are restricted to 1200 > baud. > > No, not exactly. But we are limited to the same bandwidth as an FM > voice channel, so there is a practical limit. 9600 baud fits into the > permissible deviation well enough and is commonly used on 2 meters. I guess things changed when I wasn't looking. Thanks for the update. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

1
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Macintosh Portable problems

by netsurfer_x1＠hotmail.com

Finally got my Mac Portable battery rebuilt, the thing runs great! But I think I have a problem. Whenever I check the "Battery" DA or the battery gauge on the menu bar, the batteries never seem to be charged up more than half way. Anybody got any ideas? ____________________________________________________________ David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, Double FDD, GeoRam 512, Okimate 20. "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. ____________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 4 months

2
1
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Source code for BASIC

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<My earliest Intel SBC's have room for 4 24-pin EPROMs, each of which can <hold 4K, and, if you use a jumpering arrangement derived from the schemati <rather than from the manual, you can use the 8K parts from MOT. That give <you 32KB. Isn't that enough to support a customized version of the BASIC I have 8k rom Basic (actually about 7.25k in size) from Netronics for the 8085 SBC. That was very complete Microsoft Basic-80 cassette basic. It reqired 1k of ram for the most minimal of programs. IO was vis the SBCs 2k monitor rom. Another good basic with FP is LLL basic, about 5k (of 8080 code) with floats. 32k would be Ms disk basic + most of CPM! So size is not an issue. Often most SBC users only need integer math plus control strutures so they can run things. <wouldn't you? There are some public-domain CP/M-compatible I/O handlers <which use some of the CP/M i/o calls. Naturally, it's a lot of work, but <you can do it, given you have the source code. You can fit CPM with BIOS in 8k easily (CCP-2k, BDOS-3.5k, Bios 2.5k)! If your really lazy yu only need ram to copy it to from a rom so a boot device is not required. I have a little SBC I did that has two 32k ram (000-F7FFh), 2k Eprom at F800 and several IO ports that runs SPM via romdisk (27010 x2 on a 8255 parallel port device). Everything runs from ram. If storage is needed I have a bit of bios code that routes drive B: to the serial port and a host system fakes a disk. It's on a 6x4" card no SMT and common stuff using 8085 running at 5mhz. Everything but the bios is stock code and the bios is nothing fancy (nearly textbook actually). Allison

26 years, 4 months

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Source code for BASIC

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<If someone's looking for a BASIC to run on their SBC, I think I'd go <with one of the Tiny BASIC's out there myself that comes with sources. <Oak.oakland.edu or another good old Simtel mirror would be a good place <to start a search. MSbasic is ok but there were better. Personally the PTbasic and NS* were better featured for their size. the dunfields.com site has a few small Basics as well to look at. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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Dumpster stories!

by edick＠idcomm.com

Yes, that's true, but it's through no action or inaction (I hesitate to say "fault") of you're own that you're all still in one piece. I'd agree that allowing the masses the freedom to kill or maim themselves or others is probably sound Darwin theory, the fact that people, despite their poor judgement are left to boast about having survived despite the cited obviously imprudent actions is adequate evidence that sound judgement isn't a requirement for survival. The fact that my two boys, neither of whom was either taught or allowed to engage in such actions are still around also serves to point that out. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Christopher Finney <af-list(a)wfi-inc.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Thursday, February 10, 2000 3:34 PM Subject: Re: Dumpster stories! > > >On Thu, 10 Feb 2000, John Wilson wrote: > >> On Thu, Feb 10, 2000 at 06:35:26PM -0000, Eric Smith wrote: >> > I suppose people are going to think I'm a jerk for saying such a thing, >> > but IMNSHO the tragedy here isn't that the kids were killed, but that >> > they hadn't been taught not to do such things. >> >> I agree... My parents covered all this stuff -- they told us not to dig inside >> snowbanks because a plow might come, we all wore seat belts way before there >> was a law (bicycle helmets too), our parents strictly enforced what we could > >Never a bicycle helmet, threw heavy rocks on the ice to see if it would >break (then made the biggest kid go out there first), built forts in >snowplow drifts, threw rocks at bees nests, climbed high trees, had B-B >gun fights, etc. Had enough money to buy bottle rockets and firecrackers. >Made lawn-chair pipe bombs with pyrodex. So did all of my friends. > >We're still alive, and each of us still have 10 fingers and two eyes >apiece. >

26 years, 4 months

9
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Source code for BASIC

by edick＠idcomm.com

No, I don't get the point. The TINY BASIC with which I worked back in the mid-'70's required more ascii because it was necessary to build the features normally contained in the "full-up" version. If one were to have access to the source code for the interpreter, one could then migrate various function classes to external libraries which would be incorporated into the ROM set only if they were needed. If you didn't need the FP library or the high-precision math library, or the file I/O library, you'd simply leave it out. However, it's MUCH easier to add enough ROM code space by using a couple already present sockets, if you do need string processing or floating point functions, it's MUCH easier to use them within the framework of BASIC than to roll-yer-own implementation of a public domain FP package. If you put the ascii basic code in one ROM and put the interpreter in another, it makes a big difference whether you use TINY basic rather than a product like MSBasic v5.11. TINY is OK for some applications, but it doesn't do a lot of the nie things the "real" basic does. That's why you have to use more code to build the functions. If you use them often, these little functions can become large and burdensome. The BASIC source, meaning the stuff you write and feed to the interpreter, is often MUCH easier to fit into a small system's ROM for a given task than the equivalent TINY BASIC implementation simply because it's less verbose than Tiny BASIC code for the same task. YMMV, of course, but IF you write an interface to an LCD so that PRINT uses it, just being able enter '?' as a token already saves space. Of course, if you happened to have a tokenizer for the basic, or, for that matter, TINY BASIC, you'll save space. Unfortunately, I've never had a tokenized TINY BASIC. That, basically, (no pun intended) is the reason a REAL source for a REAL basic interpreter would be interesting. After all, that's one of the features that's made FORTH as popular as it is. Dick -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 2:32 PM Subject: Re: Source code for BASIC >>Just exactly why would you recommend a TINY BASIC as opposed to a full-up >>interpreter? Most SBC's support huge amounts of RAM, far in excess of what >>the basic interpreter should require. > >Heck, we can get SBC's of just a few square inches with a Pentium Pro, 128 >Mbytes of RAM, SVGA output, and a hard drive interface, why not just install >Windows NT on the SBC so you can run the latest and greatest Visual BASIC++++? > >Well, I took your argument there a little too far, but I hope you get the >point: Use the tools appropriate to the job. And for most SBC applications, >the floating point capabilities and libraries as well as the file I/O >facilities of a "full-up" BASIC are overkill. OTOH most Tiny Basic >implementations are perfect for the bit-banging and input/output that a >SBC is often called upon to do. > >(And yes, I know of other cases where Windows NT and 128 Mbytes of RAM on >the SBC are appropriate, but I don't think any of us want to go down that >road!) > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 >

26 years, 4 months

1
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Source code for BASIC

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Just exactly why would you recommend a TINY BASIC as opposed to a full-up >interpreter? Most SBC's support huge amounts of RAM, far in excess of what >the basic interpreter should require. Heck, we can get SBC's of just a few square inches with a Pentium Pro, 128 Mbytes of RAM, SVGA output, and a hard drive interface, why not just install Windows NT on the SBC so you can run the latest and greatest Visual BASIC++++? Well, I took your argument there a little too far, but I hope you get the point: Use the tools appropriate to the job. And for most SBC applications, the floating point capabilities and libraries as well as the file I/O facilities of a "full-up" BASIC are overkill. OTOH most Tiny Basic implementations are perfect for the bit-banging and input/output that a SBC is often called upon to do. (And yes, I know of other cases where Windows NT and 128 Mbytes of RAM on the SBC are appropriate, but I don't think any of us want to go down that road!) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

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Source code for BASIC

by edick＠idcomm.com

Just exactly why would you recommend a TINY BASIC as opposed to a full-up interpreter? Most SBC's support huge amounts of RAM, far in excess of what the basic interpreter should require. My earliest Intel SBC's have room for 4 24-pin EPROMs, each of which can hold 4K, and, if you use a jumpering arrangement derived from the schematic rather than from the manual, you can use the 8K parts from MOT. That gives you 32KB. Isn't that enough to support a customized version of the BASIC interpreter in addition to the required driver code? You do have to modify the I/O hooks to fit into your SBC, but you'd have to do that anyway, wouldn't you? There are some public-domain CP/M-compatible I/O handlers which use some of the CP/M i/o calls. Naturally, it's a lot of work, but you can do it, given you have the source code. Dick -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 11:48 AM Subject: RE: Source code for BASIC >>Tim Shoppa mentioned having some early MS source on AFC. >>What exactly do you have, Tim? > >I've got MBASIC 5.11 sources. This is relatively late in >MBASIC's life (about the time it was being ported to the 8086) but there >are comments in there referring back to 1975. > >I've also got home-grown disassemblies of several other Microsoft products from >the late 1970's, though these are hardly "official". > >If someone's looking for a BASIC to run on their SBC, I think I'd go >with one of the Tiny BASIC's out there myself that comes with sources. >Oak.oakland.edu or another good old Simtel mirror would be a good place >to start a search. > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 >

26 years, 4 months

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virtual hamfest

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On February 16, Mark Tapley wrote: > Howdy. I'm utterly inactive but I do actually have (had? I'd better > check, may have expired) technician KB6UOH. > My wife was listening to me struggling to work up to 5 WPM code, > using our Mac Plus (am I on-topic now?) as a random code generator. She > thought it sounded kind of neat, tried it out, and was doing 10 WPM in a > few days. (grrrr!). On the way down to the test I taught her Ohm's law and > a few frequencies and talked her into taking the test. She took clean code > (and the volunteers there were begging her to try out the general code > test) and squeaked by the multiple-choice stuff and got license KB6UOI > (awww, how sweet, consecutive numbers...). > Now if we'd just get a radio and get on the air..... She thought CW sounded neat? Does she have a sister? ;) -Dave McGuire

26 years, 4 months

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Source code for BASIC

by edick＠idcomm.com

So . . . where did this set of MBASIC v5.11 sources turn up for you to snag? Are the associated files available? Dick -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 11:48 AM Subject: RE: Source code for BASIC >>Tim Shoppa mentioned having some early MS source on AFC. >>What exactly do you have, Tim? > >I've got MBASIC 5.11 sources. This is relatively late in >MBASIC's life (about the time it was being ported to the 8086) but there >are comments in there referring back to 1975. > >I've also got home-grown disassemblies of several other Microsoft products from >the late 1970's, though these are hardly "official". > >If someone's looking for a BASIC to run on their SBC, I think I'd go >with one of the Tiny BASIC's out there myself that comes with sources. >Oak.oakland.edu or another good old Simtel mirror would be a good place >to start a search. > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 >

26 years, 4 months

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Source code for BASIC

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Tim Shoppa mentioned having some early MS source on AFC. >What exactly do you have, Tim? I've got MBASIC 5.11 sources. This is relatively late in MBASIC's life (about the time it was being ported to the 8086) but there are comments in there referring back to 1975. I've also got home-grown disassemblies of several other Microsoft products from the late 1970's, though these are hardly "official". If someone's looking for a BASIC to run on their SBC, I think I'd go with one of the Tiny BASIC's out there myself that comes with sources. Oak.oakland.edu or another good old Simtel mirror would be a good place to start a search. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

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KB9IUA

by kla＠helios.augustana.edu

For the record, I'm KB9IUA (Amateur Extra Class and 99% CW Morse op only). Cheers/73. Kevin * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Kevin L. Anderson Ph.D., Geography Department, Augustana College Rock Island, Illinois 61201-2296, USA phone: (309) 794-7325 e-mail: kla(a)helios.augustana.edu -or- gganderson(a)augustana.edu * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent the administration of Augustana College.

26 years, 4 months

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