- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

FS: Datanumerics, well a whole lot, really

by adavie＠taswegian.com

Hi to everyone. I'm no longer a member of the list, but some of you will remember me :)) For personal reasons, I'm currenlty offering my entire collection of collections for sale. I have some quite interesting vintage computers - including the beautiful Datanumerics DL-8A (a front-panel switch 8080 beast) and a homebrew S100 system with a Signetics 2650 processor emulating 8080. Also, rare home computers such as the Hanimex Pencil II. I am also selling my entire collection of Soviet Calculators (some 100 units), but only as a whole collection. I will be delighted to do photographs for any interested purchasers. Thanks for your interest - the URL is in my signature, below. Cheers A -- Andrew Davie adavie(a)taswegian.com or adavie(a)mad.scientist.com I'm selling my vintage computers, calculators, and video games... list at http://www.taswegian.com/TwoHeaded/forsale.html see my award-winning Museum of Soviet Calculators http://www.taswegian.com/MOSCOW/soviet.html

26 years, 4 months

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info hunt on some S100 boards...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

I just aquired and IMS inc multiuser S100 system the suize of a coffe table. To restore it I need docs/info. It appears to be a complete system. It has 4 Commercial Dynamics Z80 slaves {SCPU MK4cr ISS 1} 1 IMS cpu card {A644} 1 IMS 64k dynamic ram card with parity. {c00464} 1 floppy card 8" 765/8257 based, S8000 floppy control {c00401} 1 WD controller for 8" wini (IMS) {A821 2562-1} 1 IMS I/O board, 2 serial using 8250, parallel using 8255 {A631} Anyone with docs for any of the boards I'd like to talk to them. Allison

26 years, 4 months

3
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PDP emulation

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> I tried swapping my M8186 (11/23) for M8192 (11/73) but it doesn't run. >> Maybe I need to rebuild the kernel (I've got an original distribution, not >> one of the images from PUPS), but perhaps it would work with more memory or >> by swapping RLV11 for RLV12. >Cpu doesn't run or doesn't run V7? The image I have only wants some 256k >of ram out of all teh installed ram. I get the impression it was >configured for an 11/34 or similar and that is mostly a 11/23 save for the >11/23 mmu can go to 22 bits. The V6 and V7 images currently available have device drivers that were built for Unibus systems. They expect a Unibus Map to be present for accessing memory above 256Kbytes (many of the drivers were built to always expect a Unibus map). The "safe" thing to do on a Q-bus system (or an emulated Q-bus system, like Supnik's emulator) is to run with 256Kbytes or less. (Even that isn't perfectly safe, some of the tape drivers simply refuse to work with a Unibus map no matter how much/little memory is there.) (And yes, I know there are Q-bus systems with Unibus maps, but I'm ignoring those right now.) Tim.

26 years, 4 months

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PDP emulation

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Mar 5, 18:11, Allison J Parent wrote: > I forget if V7 needed I&D space or 2.11 meaning the 11/23 was not enough. > The 11/73 has the added I&D bits where 11/23 only has user registers and > MMU. BSD2.11 does need separate I&D, but V7 doesn't. If you don't have separate I&D, ISTR you need to build it for "small machine", and it runs a bit slower. > Got it onto a RL02 pack. It's the supnick emulator V7 binary image for > RL02 and it will run from RL02 IF the pack is a RL02k-DC (no defects). > The reason for that is the image is for a theoretical perfect disk and > it's bad block map is zero defects. > > The hardware is 11/73(KA11J-A), 2MB ram, DLV11-F, DLV11J, RLV21/RL02, > RXV12/RX02, RQDX3/RD52(x2)/RX33, TQK50. It's a very stuffed BA11N box > with a CD/CD (18 slots) backplane. I tried swapping my M8186 (11/23) for M8192 (11/73) but it doesn't run. Maybe I need to rebuild the kernel (I've got an original distribution, not one of the images from PUPS), but perhaps it would work with more memory or by swapping RLV11 for RLV12. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 4 months

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Richard Didday/Matrix Publishers/Dilithium Press?

by bill_r＠inetnebr.com

While moving and sorting through the last of the books and magazines from our old house, I found my long-lost copy of "Finite State Fantasies", a semi-educational computer cartoon book that I bought in a Byte Shoppe about 25 years ago. It's kind of cool and funny, and I would like to scan it and put it up on my web site for others to enjoy, but I don't want to whiz in anyone's Cheerios in terms of copyrights. I have done some web searching, but couldn't find any current contact information for Richard Didday (is he still around?), Matrix Publications (whose name appears on the copyright statement), or Dilithium Press (who, based on my searches, seems to either have been the precursor or the successor of Matrix). Does anyone have any information on any of these folks, so I can try to get their permission to scan and share this strange book? -Bill Richman (bill_r(a)inetnebr.com) Web Page: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities.

26 years, 4 months

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PDP emulation

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Cool! I've got an 11/23 that is very close to that config (swap the RXV11 <for a pair of LPV11's and you have my config), I think I might have to see LPV11s??? driving a LN01 or LP2x? ;) You need a RLV11 or RLV21 for a RL02 as that is what the V7 binary image is for. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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PDP emulation

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Mar 5, 13:48, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Peter Turnbull wrote: > >it. Present setup is 11/23, 256KW, 2 x DLV11J, RLV11 + 2 x RL02, RXV11 > >workalike, IBV11, BDV11. > > > >Allison, can you remind me what you did to make it work on an 11/73? > > Cool! I've got an 11/23 that is very close to that config (swap the RXV11 > for a pair of LPV11's and you have my config), I think I might have to see > about getting it into a state where it will boot something and then see > about getting the SCO license. I'm pretty sure one of the binary images at PUPS is suitable for an 11/23 with RL02s. Warren has some notes on how to download an image and copy it to a real drive. > It would be nice to finally have a use for the system besides a rack shelf :^) that's exactly what one of my 11/73s was being used for when I first saw it :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 4 months

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PDP emulation

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> >V7 runs nice on E-11. Runs nice on my 11/73 too. <> > <> >Allison. <> <> REALLY?!?! What are the hardware requirements for V7? I thought they <>were a lot more restrictive than that. I'm assuming that it does not <>support MSCP disks. No MSCP, RL02. ;) I'd need to run 2.11 to get MSCP. <No, it doesn't, but it does run on any Q-bus machine with an MMU and <suitable disks. I've had it running on an 11/23 for the best part of ten I forget if V7 needed I&D space or 2.11 meaning the 11/23 was not enough. The 11/73 has the added I&D bits where 11/23 only has user registers and MMU. <years, and it was installed on the same machine almost as long before I go <it. Present setup is 11/23, 256KW, 2 x DLV11J, RLV11 + 2 x RL02, RXV11 <workalike, IBV11, BDV11. <Allison, can you remind me what you did to make it work on an 11/73? You and Tim Both helped get it going as I could not make at that time the pack needed. I don't run it often as Unix is less than really interesting to me but being an RL02 pack I can run it on a whim. Got it onto a RL02 pack. It's the supnick emulator V7 binary image for RL02 and it will run from RL02 IF the pack is a RL02k-DC (no defects). The reason for that is the image is for a theoretical perfect disk and it's bad block map is zero defects. The hardware is 11/73(KA11J-A), 2MB ram, DLV11-F, DLV11J, RLV21/RL02, RXV12/RX02, RQDX3/RD52(x2)/RX33, TQK50. It's a very stuffed BA11N box with a CD/CD (18 slots) backplane. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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KIM-1 OOOPS

by acierno＠mindspring.com

I forgot to ask if anyone know of a good assembler or cross-assembler for the KIM-1? mark ------- ICQ 40439199 http://www2.msstate.edu/~mja2

26 years, 4 months

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PDP emulation

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Mar 5, 10:56, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >V7 runs nice on E-11. Runs nice on my 11/73 too. > > > >Allison. > > REALLY?!?! What are the hardware requirements for V7? I thought they were > a lot more restrictive than that. I'm assuming that it does not support > MSCP disks. No, it doesn't, but it does run on any Q-bus machine with an MMU and suitable disks. I've had it running on an 11/23 for the best part of ten years, and it was installed on the same machine almost as long before I got it. Present setup is 11/23, 256KW, 2 x DLV11J, RLV11 + 2 x RL02, RXV11 workalike, IBV11, BDV11. Allison, can you remind me what you did to make it work on an 11/73? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 4 months

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KIM-1 OOOPS

by edick＠idcomm.com

You haven't visited www.6502.org yet, have you? Dick -----Original Message----- From: mark acierno <acierno(a)mindspring.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Sunday, March 05, 2000 12:18 PM Subject: KIM-1 OOOPS >I forgot to ask if anyone know of a good assembler or cross-assembler for >the KIM-1? > > >mark > >------- > >ICQ 40439199 >http://www2.msstate.edu/~mja2 > >

26 years, 4 months

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PDP emulation

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Come on now, everyone on the list should know by now that I wouldn't even <think of the possibilty of running UNIX on a PDP-11 or a VAX :^) Unix is not my favorite but for PDP-11s, it's historical. ;) <Note, amazingly I'm not opposed to running UNIX on a PDP-11 like I am to <running it on VAXen. I just don't have the hardware to run the versions <I'd be most interested in running (and don't have the room for it anyway). V7 runs nice on E-11. Runs nice on my 11/73 too. Allison.

26 years, 4 months

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SWC0166 transistor (HP9100B ROM assy)

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

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26 years, 4 months

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KIM-1

by edick＠idcomm.com

There's no telling what you'll find, but why not take a look at <www.6502.org> and see if there isn't a pointer you can use. Dick -----Original Message----- From: mark acierno <acierno(a)mindspring.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Sunday, March 05, 2000 11:28 AM Subject: KIM-1 >I just got a kim-1 (with KIMEX expansion board) was wondering if anyone >still had a copy of tiny basic ( for KIM) arround in any format (text, >tape, ect.) or knew where there was a copy on the web. > >I know this is a long shot! > > >mark > >------- > >ICQ 40439199 >http://www2.msstate.edu/~mja2 > >

26 years, 4 months

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KIM-1

by acierno＠mindspring.com

I just got a kim-1 (with KIMEX expansion board) was wondering if anyone still had a copy of tiny basic ( for KIM) arround in any format (text, tape, ect.) or knew where there was a copy on the web. I know this is a long shot! mark ------- ICQ 40439199 http://www2.msstate.edu/~mja2

26 years, 4 months

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PDP emulation

by bobstek＠ix.netcom.com

This may be old news to most. I have never been exposed to the PDP-11 series, but I know a lot of you are big fans. I accidently came across another RPI alum who offers his PDP emulator free for non-commercial use, so I though Id post some info about it: D Bit Developer of Ersatz-11, a software PDP-11 emulator for MS-DOS PCs giving emulation speed far faster than the PDP-11/93. The free demo version may be used for 30-day commercial evaluation, or unlimited personal/hobby use. Information about commercial versions is available here. Take a live RSX11M+ V4.5 system for a test drive here. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- PDP-11 Emulation System Try out a live RSX11M+ V4.5 demo system Ersatz-11 emulates an entire PDP-11 system in software while running on low-cost PC hardware. It outperforms all of the hardware PDP-11 replacements on the market, outstripping them by a particularly wide margin in disk-intensive applications. Hardware PDP-11 replacements that use a Q-bus, Unibus, or ISA bus for I/O can't come close to Ersatz-11's disk performance because they are limited to the speed of the I/O bus for all disk transfers, regardless of actual disk (or disk cache) speed. Ersatz-11 avoids this bottleneck since it uses the PC's main memory and takes advantage of the tight disk-to-memory coupling in modern PCs. Ersatz-11 is by far the least expensive PDP-11 replacement product on the market. It quickly pays for itself in reduced maintenance, power, and climate control costs. Since its CPU is powered by the PC's processor and not a special-purpose processor card, there's no expensive custom hardware to maintain, and future upgrades to the PC's processor will make its PDP-11 emulation even faster. Orders for Ersatz-11 are usually shipped out the same day. Ersatz-11 features (Note: not all are available in Demo version) Processor emulation: PDP-11/23, PDP-11/24, PDP-11/34a, PDP-11/40, PDP-11/44, PDP-11/45, PDP-11/53, PDP-11/70, PDP-11/73, PDP-11/83, PDP-11/84, PDP-11/93, or PDP-11/94 CPU with individually selectable CPU features FP11/FPF11/FPJ11 floating point processor 4 MB main memory (248-400 KB in Demo and Lite versions) KW11L line clock (50/60 Hz, settable) Display register (using special hardware) Disk devices: UDA50,RQDX3/RAxx,RDxx,RXxx MSCP disks; number limited by available memory (not present in Demo version) RK11D/RK02,RK05 disk drives; up to 8 per controller RL11,RLV11,RLV12/RL01-02 disk drives; up to 4 per controller RK611/RK06-07 disk drives; up to 8 per controller RP11C/RP02,RP03 pack drives; up to 8 per controller RX211/RX02, RX11/RX01, or RXT11/RX01 dual 8" floppies RH11,RH70/RM02/03/05/80/RP04/05/06 removable pack disk drives; up to 8 per Massbus (full version only) RH11,RH70/RS03-04 fixed-head disk drives; up to 8 per Massbus RF11/RS11 fixed-head disk drives; up to 8 per controller RC11/RS64 fixed-head disk drives; up to 4 per controller Tape devices: KLESI,TQK50,TQK70/TU81,TKxx TMSCP tapes; number limited by available memory (not present in Demo version) RH11,RH70/TM03/TE16,TU45,TU77 magtape drives; up to 64 per Massbus TM11/TU10 magtape drives; up to 8 per controller TS11,TSU05,TSV05,M7454,TQK25/TS04,TS05,TU80,TK25 magtape drives; up to 8 per controller (most configurations use just one) TA11/TU60 dual cassette tape drive TC11/TU56 DECtape drives; up to 8 per controller PC11 paper tape reader/punch Communications devices: DL11 terminal ports; console and up to 31 others (16 total in Demo and Lite versions) DHQ11,DHU11,DHV11 serial multiplexers (full version only) DZ11,DZV11 serial multiplexers (full version only) LP11 printer ports; up to 4 DELUA Ethernet ports; up to 4 DEQNA Ethernet ports; up to 2 (not in Demo version) Other features: Versatile command language for controlling and monitoring emulation Configuration may be modified without halting or rebooting emulator Extensive logging facilities for capturing controller commands, terminal and line printer output, and Ethernet traffic Automatic configuration of floating CSR/vector addresses Automatic selection of controller types based on emulated CPU type (for devices such as the RL11/RLV12 whose Q-bus and Unibus versions have programming differences) PC hardware support Block devices: Disk images contained in DOS files Raw SCSI disk drives (full version only) Raw floppy drives (directly compatible with many types of DEC media) 8" drives may be attached using the D Bit FDADAP floppy disk adapter board. RAM disks in DPMI memory (full version only) Tape devices: Tape images contained in DOS files Raw SCSI tape drives (full version only) RAM tapes in DPMI memory (full version only) Character devices: (see comparison of multi-serial boards) Emulated VT100 on SVGA -- can flip between up to 12 virtual screens, VESA and Trident 132-column modes are supported; keyboard is fully customizable using scripts for each key, default keyscripts emulate VT100 keyboard including keypad COM ports (FIFOs supported if available, including 16C650A etc.) LPT ports Comtrol RocketPort/PCI multi-serial boards (full version only) Chase Research PCI-FAST multi-serial boards (full version only) Boca multi-serial boards (full version only) Digi AccelePort Xe (and older PC/Xe) multi-serial boards (full version only) Sound Blaster MIDI port Network devices: Any Ethernet interface with a packet driver NE2000 clones, ISA or PCI (built-in driver) Bus adapters:(note PCI vendor change) H & L Associates model UPG3600-PIO ISA/Unibus bridge (full version only, limited support now, full support in a future update) The Logical Company model BCI-2103 PCI/Q22 bridge (full version only) The Logical Company model BCI-2003 PCI/Unibus bridge (full version only) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- For more information contact info(a)dbit.com D Bit 11 Bank Street Troy, NY 12180 Voice: +1 (518) 271-6824 FAX: +1 (518) 272-3853 I have no idea if this is new - no idea if the product is good, bad or indifferent. Just thought somebody might be interested. Bob Stek Saver of Lost SOLs bobstek(a)ix.netcom.com

26 years, 4 months

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FW: S/36 help needed

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

Please contact this person direct, not me. If he's just starting to get into classics he me join the list, else he may be interested int rading the stuff out or selling it.... ------------------------------------------- Rich shinebarger <richme1047(a)yahoo.com> wellsville, ny usa - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 09:27:33 i need info on an old ibm system/34 it is operational and i have terminals for it but they wont connect to it. also i need to know how i can hook a DOS computer to a win95/98 network and i have an old iomega disk drive that takes 20meg 8 1/2 inch cassettes i need drivers or info on how to set it up

26 years, 4 months

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PDP emulation

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Y2K compatible dir listing including the TSX+ time stamp, but doesn't <support all those innumerable switches yet), PIP.SAV and DUP.SAV would be <some work but not impossible at all, and also I've always meant to flesh <my puny FORTH mini-OS into something real. Cause what I'd really like to <see is something you can legally run on a real PDP-11 w/o any "hobbyist" <restrictions, since you never know when you might actually make some money <by accident with these old machines. Media conversion, consulting, whateve <For a lot of us it's a really fine line between job and hobby! One possibility is to not try to make DEC compatable utilites and develope a set of basic utilities so people could develope with and on fuzzball. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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New additions

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Had a pretty good Saturday got the following items: 1. Mac Powerbook 170 with adapter needs a little work but was 29 dollars. 2. Sear Tele-Games Super Video Arcade game with 12 cartridges and 2 paddles. 3. 22- Atari 2600 cartridges, two were new to me. Gateway to Apshai and Haunted House. 4. A Grid 286 and 386 notebooks. 5. About 25 books and manuals for the collection. 6. New in the numeric keypad for the Apple II by The Keyboard Company. 7. Several new mouse pads for that part of the collection. 8. About 10 new cups to add to that part of my collection also. All in all it was a good day since I also picked up several other items that are 10 years old yet but were too good to pass up.

26 years, 4 months

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Disk-2-Disk for Amiga

by mark_k＠iname.com

Hi, Disk-2-Disk is an old commercial program for the Amiga by Central Coast Software. There is a demo of it on Aminet (misc/emu/D2D_Demo.lha). D2D can be used to read data from C64 disks in an unmodified Amiga 5.25" floppy drive. According to the documentation in the demo archive, reading from tracks 1-17 is really slow because the program must do some tricks to account for real 1541 drives having variable speed. (There is a program on Aminet, misc/emu/1541.lha, which can read 1541 disks but this requires that the Amiga drive's speed be reduced.) Does anyone have an original copy of Disk-2-Disk that they would be willing to sell? If you do, please contact me. Regards, -- Mark

26 years, 4 months

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PDP emulation

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<John has also been a list member for a few months :^) Downside of his is <you have to *OWN* a copy of the OS to use it legally. You can't use the <Hobbyist Emulator license. That only applies to Bob Supniks emulator. You can use it to run some of the unix binaries available fromthe PUPS archive. Though for $100 you can get a source license too. Allison

26 years, 4 months

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Need help with big DEC haul in Oakland

by af-list＠wfi-inc.com

Here's the deal; I've been offered some PDP stuff in Oakland (details in forwarded message below) and am trying to negotiate pickup. I'd originally contacted the company searching for documentation on an obsolete product, and got much, much more... I'm in LA and the trip would be exceedingly difficult to arrange for myself. Anyone in the Bay Area who is interested in anything he's got and can give me a hand let me know; if worse comes to worse, I'll fly up and ship it back. Cheers, Aaron ---------------Original Forwarded Message Below--------------------- Hi, We have a fair amount of info on that board - I will see what I can dig up and let you know. Do you or your group have any interest in more LSI-11 related documents, boards (CPUs, serial boards, disk controllers, etc) ST506 drives (36-200 MB) etc? Also, a bunch of DEC blocks and PCBs (I think we still have those) for building backplanes. We have quite a bit of this stuff lying around and I haven't been abe to bring myself to throw it all away. New, of course, it was worth a lot, but now it isn't worth anything except to the knowledgeable. It would be a regular treasure trove. It's too bad - I have already gotten rid of the BA11 boxes and things like that, but there are lots of boards, drives, misc h/w, s/w, etc. Also, a really nice HP plotter, a Pacific Page plotter, and a few goodies like that. A bunch of 300w power supplies that are good for building machines up. Any - lots of surplus stuff that would be appreciated by a group that needs such things. If you want it, and would give it a good home (whatever that means), I would be delighted to give it to you. Maybe somebody could drive a pickup up here sometime and we can load it up. If you don't, but know someone who is a real DEC '11 freak, please pass this mail on. I hate the idea of giving it to the garbage man, but I need the space for other things. At 09:20 PM 3/3/00 -0800, you wrote: >Hi, > >I spoke with someone several months ago about possibly obtaining any >information I possibly could on one of your obsolete products, the VRG-Q11 >q-bus display card for the PDP-11. The card has a 10-pin berg header on >the top edge, to which was attached a single bnc-type connector. > >I'd be really interested in being able to do *something* with this card, >and any information you could find on it at all would be very much >appreciated, even if it was just a clue as to an appropriate display to >use with it. > >Representing the San Gabriel Valley Classic Computer Enthusiasts group, I >must say the the particular machine that this card is in is one of our >most interesting pieces, and one of our biggest mysteries. It is a Plessey >clone that is made up of entirely (cpu excluded) non-DEC modules. Imagine >the fun we've had trying to dig up printsets for these cards! > >Either way, whether there's info available on it on some dusty shelf or >not, I'd really appreciate hearing from you. > >Regards, > >Aaron Finney > > >{=------------------------------------+------------------------------=} >| Aaron Finney | Voice: 626-857-5599 x314 | >| Manager, Information Systems | Fax: 626-857-0455 | >| Western Field Investigations, Inc | Email: A_Finney(a)wfi-inc.com | >{=------------------------------------+------------------------------=} > > > Victor Gold Peritek Corp 5550 Redwood Road Oakland, CA 94619 (510) 531-6500 FAX (510) 530-8563 email: victor(a)peritek.com

26 years, 4 months

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wanted; DECwriter

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

Anybody know where I can pick up a DECwriter? (central Texas area preferred...) -- +---------------+-------------------+ | Bill Bradford | mrbill(a)mrbill.net | +-------BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-------+-----------------------------------+ | Version: 3.12 | | GCS d- s:++ a- C++++ US++++ P+ L- E--- W+++ N++ o K+++ w--- O- M-- V- | | PS PE+ Y+ PGP t+ 5 X- R-- tv+++ b++++ DI++++ D++ G++ e++ h r++ y+ | +-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----------------------------------------------+

26 years, 4 months

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FS: NEC PC-8201A 'Personal Application' kit

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

This one made me chuckle when I rescued it. It's a "Personal Application Kit" for the NEC PC-8201A handheld computer. It consists of a single data cassette (yes, a cassette -- looks just like an audio cassette, too) that's still in unbroken shrink-wrap and a user's manual. It's vintage 1983, based on the copyright, and contains the following apps. Memory Calculator Text Formatter Investment Portfolio Linear Forecaster Loan Evaluation Schedule Keeper Character Definer Bank Backup Bank Transfer Bank Accessor (these latter three seem to have something to do with internal memory). Terminal Mode Selector Bar Code Reader Music Programs Tank Game Snake Game First person to offer me $8.20 ($5.00 + Priority Mail shipping) takes it. First-come, first-served, based on E-mail time/date stamp. Thanks much! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

26 years, 4 months

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Mott in New Jersey?

by Anthony.Eros＠compaq.com

No, but I'm right next door in Delaware, so I'd sure like to meet him! -- Tony > ---------- > From: Mike Ford[SMTP:mikeford@socal.rr.com] > Reply To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 5:11 PM > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Mott in New Jersey? > > In a conversation at a surplus joint yesterday someone told me about a guy > in New Jersey called "Mott" that is a big dealer in PDP11 type stuff. > Anybody know more? (just curious really) > >

26 years, 4 months

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Early Mac Clones

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Mark Gregory <mgregory(a)vantageresearch.com> wrote: > One notable emulator/clone they missed was the Amax by ReadySoft for the > Amiga. It was a slim grey box that contained sockets for the Mac 512K ROMs And available later as an internal board with the same ROM sockets, a pair of 34-pin connectors and external mini-DIN connectors. The 34-pin connectors were there to place the A-Max-II+ board between the floppy drive and the motherboard, allowing the Amiga's internal floppy to read/write 800K Mac disks. The mini-DIN connectors were for LocalTalk. I still use my A-3000 bought in 1990 to run M$ Word under A-Max and then print via LocalTalk to my HP LJ/4ML. It works great as a turbo B&W Mac. > I believe it was fairly successful - it went through at least 4 hardware > versions that I'm aware of, ending with the Amax IV. I only have the "A-Max II+". The IV had an upgraded PAL (security bit blown, unfortunately; I checked) and new software. > I was an early purchaser, and I always enjoyed showing off my Amiga with > DeluxePaint II open in one window, WordPerfect for DOS in another window (I > had an XT bridgeboard), and the Mac desktop in a third window. > The best of all worlds, almost. I had one way back, too. I used to use Mac System 3.5 with it. There's another Amiga-based Mac implementation: Shapeshifter. It is software only. I sent the author a Zilog data book so he could support the A-MaxII+ card (Z8530, just like the Mac and old Suns, a *great* serial chip if you knew about its register access time limitations). My favorite demonstration with Shapeshifter was to fire off System 7 on the Mac side, connect up to a nearby Mac server and mount a share, switch back to the Amiga side, open up AMosaic and browse the web while copying files on the Mac. For an added touch, since there is no Netscape browser for AmigaDOS, shut down the TCP/IP stack on the Amiga side, then launch Netscape for the Mac. Those who saw the demo were usually stunned. This was all on a 25Mhz 68030 w/18Mb RAM (16Mb "FAST", 2Mb "CHIP" (kinda like video RAM but more versatile)) Most recently, I took a CD of several hundred Apple QuickTake 150 pictures that I shot over several months in Antarctica. My extensive research showed that there was no way with UNIX or Windows to convert these files to any other format. They are "Quicktime Compressed PICTs". The PBM utilities can parse them, but they get to the meat of the picture and declare that there is an unknown tag and skip the picture data. Anyway, I needed a Mac running the QuickTake 150 extensions to interpret these 1200 pictures. My fastest real Mac was a Mac SE/30. Running Picture Convert, it was 20-30 seconds to load an image and save it as a compressed TIFF; fortunately, there's a batch mode. Some of the pictures had developed bit rot, 10 in all. I couldn't just fire it off and go to bed; I had to supervise the batch. I loaded the stuff all up on to a 4Gb SCSI disk, hung it off my A4000 (25Mhz 68040) and ran ShapeShifter. It was now more like 5 seconds per picture, thus, my fastest Mac was really an Amiga. Last month when I picked up the MacIIci for $5, I passed on a Quadra 605 for $25 because it had no Ethernet and was only a 25Mhz 68040. I figured I already had that much and there was no reason to clutter up with one more box. I think, eventually, when the University surpluses something faster, I'll upgrade, but for now, the Amiga reigns supreme amongst my Mac collection. For me, it wasn't just being able to run Mac programs that was great; it was running them in a networked environment that was really awesome. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain goes away on 15 March. See http://www.infinet.com/ for details. Please update your address lists to reflect my new address: erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

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Stone Knives and Bear Skins

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

If anyone has a .GIF or .JPG of Spock in _The City on the Edge of Forever_ constructing a "primitive mnemonic memory device" from what he terms as "stone knives and bear skins", I'd love to have that to put on my reverse-engineering web page. None of my reverse-engineering aids yet involve a Jacob's ladder or a 3-foot-long breadboard (back when they were really wood!) filled with glowing tubes, but the idea is so appealing that I might try :-). I suspect that for many of us who grew up watching Star Trek, *nothing* is as cool as Spock or Scotty working on a circuit that's throwing sparks. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

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Early Mac Clones

by owad＠applefritter.com

>One interesting thing about the Outbound, IIRC, was that not only >was it introduced before the Portable came out, but it was way >better than the Portable. So much better that Apple, who >apparently hadn't quite agreed to license the rom's, gave them a >choice: either you give us your computer, or we sue the pants off of >you and we'll get it anyway. > >The Outbound then became the PowerBook. Might as well let >someone else do your R&D for you..... That story is new to me, and rather contradicts what I've heard. The Outbounds were completely legal, and I don't believe Apple ever attempted to sue them. Outbound was still around when the Powerbooks came out, and from what I've read, its the _competition_ that drove them out of business. With Apple making cost-effective laptops, it was no longer economical to buy a clone and Mac ROMs. The Outbound Notebook uses IDE hard drives and camcorder batteries and really doesn't come across at all like the Powerbook 1xx. You can find additional pictures and information at: http://www.applefritter.com/macclones/outbound/laptop/ http://www.applefritter.com/macclones/outbound/notebook/ And information on Mac clones in general at: http://www.applefritter.com/macclones/ Tom Owad ------------------------------Applefritter------------------------------ Apple Prototypes, Clones, & Hacks - The obscure, unusual, & exceptional. ---------------------<http://www.applefritter.com/>---------------------

26 years, 4 months

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How to Reverse Engineer a Non-Stated Programmable Logic Device Using Stone Knives and Bear Skins

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>This looks like it could be quite helpful in demysifying a decoder. >However, not all devices have negative-going enables and it leaves a gap >there. In a PAL it would be just as easy to use to create a decoder that >uses positive enables, e.g. as found on 6821's and the like. This isn't >common but I've run into it just in the last couple of weeks. Thanks, the next edition of "part A" will note that if the PAL output is the other polarity, you want to invert it before using it to gate the oscillator. >On most of the "old" bipolar PALs, pin 11 was used as the global output >enable, since most of the 16 and 20 input 20 and 24-pin PALs were capable of >generating tristate outputs on every macrocell. The easy way to test for >these is to use a weak pullup, driven by a single driver, together with an >equally weak pull-down resistor array. This can be the same one if your >resistor is on the order of 20K. When your device-under-test is disabled, >it should follow the signal driving the resistors. Monitoring this requires >you use no TTL in the monitoring circuit, since its inputs source current >and will drive up an output. Tri-stated outputs will be covered in an addendum at some point. I think I've been pretty plain that *my* first priority was reverse-engineering some address decoder PAL's, so I didn't have to worry about this the first time around. >One other thing that could stand to be circumvented is that the 'LS93 is a >ripple counter which, with PAL speeds as high as they are, could generate >internal glitches long enough set or clear a latch (normally implemented as >a combinatorial loop in an 'L8 or the like). True. I've noticed no such ripple glitches in my breadboarded circuits with 5 LS93's, but I'm certain you're right and that at the nanosecond level that they're there. >That might warrant the use of a synchronous counter at least in newly built >devices. For a synchronous counter I like the 'LS590 because it's an 8-bit >counter and has an extra internal register to which the count can be Good recommendation, but the LS590 isn't quite as available as the 74LS93. Ready availability of parts is vital to the "stone knives and bearskins" mindset I'm adopting here. >Also, for newly built devices, it's about as easy as anything to use a CMOS >Schmidt trigger, e.g. 74HC132 as an oscillator. You need merely put about a >1 MEG pot in feedback across the device, with inputs tied together to form >an inverter, and hang a capacitor, say, 0.01 or 0.1, or whatever else is >handy, and then tweak he pot to set the frequency. That way you don't have >to admit you have used a 555. Again in my neck of the woods 555's are more available, certainly there are lots of other ways to make clock pulses too. Many of the deglitching concerns of yours will be addressed with Part B, which discusses a simple computer interface for scanning. The computer simply waits a few hundred nanoseconds while between sending a clock pulse and looking at the PAL output. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

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Update to Cipher Docs

by af-list＠wfi-inc.com

Due to a few requests, I've posted PDF (Adobe Acrobat) files along side the TIFF files for the Cipher F880 docs. Enjoy! Aaron

26 years, 4 months

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Stone Knives and Bear Skins

by bill_r＠inetnebr.com

Psssst... http://kcohn.simplenet.com/alidarjarok/originalseries/thecityontheedgeoffore ver/index2.html >If anyone has a .GIF or .JPG of Spock in _The City on the Edge of >Forever_ constructing a "primitive mnemonic memory device" from what >he terms as "stone knives and bear skins", I'd love to have that >to put on my reverse-engineering web page. > >None of my reverse-engineering aids yet involve a Jacob's ladder or >a 3-foot-long breadboard (back when they were really wood!) filled with >glowing tubes, but the idea is so appealing that I might try :-). > >I suspect that for many of us who grew up watching Star Trek, *nothing* >is as cool as Spock or Scotty working on a circuit that's throwing >sparks. > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 > > Bill Richman http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf microcomputer simulator!)

26 years, 4 months

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RE Paxton - Anything heavy need to go to CA today from PDX

by Innfogra＠aol.com

Hi; I made connections. We arranging a rescue of a good IBM 3880 & 3350. They are going to CA today by truck. Does anyone in the PDX area have anything heavy that needs to go to CA. There is room on the truck. It is in Seattle at the moment. Thanks. Paxton

26 years, 4 months

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teletype photos wanted

by eric＠brouhaha.com

Someone recently emailed asking me for help identifying a teletype, but unfortunately didn't supply any useful information. I thought maybe I could find some photos online, but ask.com and google didn't turn up anything. Has anyone seen an online collection of photos? I'm sure there are some good ASR-33 photos somewhere, but ideally it would be nice to find photos of other models as well. Thanks! Eric

26 years, 4 months

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Early Mac Clones

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Aaron Christopher Finney <af-list(a)wfi-inc.com> wrote: > > > On Fri, 3 Mar 2000, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > Last month when I picked up the MacIIci for $5... > > There's a guy at TRW sometimes with MacII's for $5...as-is, obviously. > I'd be happy to pick one up for you, if you're interested at all. I > grabbed one a few months ago that had an 8*24GC card and an Asante NIC in > it. All said and done, $20 landed me a IIfx (40mhz/68030) that does > 1280x1024 in 16bit mode. Thanks, but no need. My $5 IIci was similarly equipped. Even though it's a tad slower than a IIfx, I prefer the IIci because it uses ordinary 30-pin SIMMs (I pulled out the 8Mb and dropped in 32Mb for playing with my pictures in their native enviroment in preparation for cutting some Mac HFS CD-ROMs for long-term backup). Another bit of fun is that I'm using a Linux box as an Appleshare File Server. It even mounts and shares HFS CD-ROMs. No magic - just the netatalk package, follow the directions and share away! -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain goes away on 15 March. See http://www.infinet.com/ for details. Please update your address lists to reflect my new address: erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

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How to Reverse Engineer a Non-Stated Programmable Logic Device Using Stone Knives and Bear Skins

by edick＠idcomm.com

This looks like it could be quite helpful in demysifying a decoder. However, not all devices have negative-going enables and it leaves a gap there. In a PAL it would be just as easy to use to create a decoder that uses positive enables, e.g. as found on 6821's and the like. This isn't common but I've run into it just in the last couple of weeks. On most of the "old" bipolar PALs, pin 11 was used as the global output enable, since most of the 16 and 20 input 20 and 24-pin PALs were capable of generating tristate outputs on every macrocell. The easy way to test for these is to use a weak pullup, driven by a single driver, together with an equally weak pull-down resistor array. This can be the same one if your resistor is on the order of 20K. When your device-under-test is disabled, it should follow the signal driving the resistors. Monitoring this requires you use no TTL in the monitoring circuit, since its inputs source current and will drive up an output. One other thing that could stand to be circumvented is that the 'LS93 is a ripple counter which, with PAL speeds as high as they are, could generate internal glitches long enough set or clear a latch (normally implemented as a combinatorial loop in an 'L8 or the like). That might warrant the use of a synchronous counter at least in newly built devices. For a synchronous counter I like the 'LS590 because it's an 8-bit counter and has an extra internal register to which the count can be transferred in parallel, thereby eliminating risk of all but the shortest output glitches. If you concatenate, say, three of these, their output registers can be clocked from the complement of the counter clock. That way they are out of phase with the count clock, hence will not generate internal races which could result in incorrectly latched data. Also, for newly built devices, it's about as easy as anything to use a CMOS Schmidt trigger, e.g. 74HC132 as an oscillator. You need merely put about a 1 MEG pot in feedback across the device, with inputs tied together to form an inverter, and hang a capacitor, say, 0.01 or 0.1, or whatever else is handy, and then tweak he pot to set the frequency. That way you don't have to admit you have used a 555. These measures should result in less wiring effort for the cases where a new gadget is being built. Just my $.02's worth . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com> To: CLASSICCMP(a)classiccmp.org <CLASSICCMP(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Friday, March 03, 2000 10:12 AM Subject: How to Reverse Engineer a Non-Stated Programmable Logic Device Using Stone Knives and Bear Skins >Here's part A of my promised document on reverse engineering programmable >logic devices. I suspect that it's too technically complex for about 49% >of the audience, too technically simplistic for 50% of the audience, and >right on target for only about 1% of the audience. Well, that's how >the dice fall! > >I'm sure that my circuit-design techniques will be viciously attacked here >too. My emphasis was on using commonly available parts, and even >though I happened to use my time-tested favorites, I'm sure some folks will >despise me because I happened to stoop as low as using a 555 in a circuit. >Please take into account that I know that the hardware I'm using here >is primitive (thus the "stone knives and bear skins" in the title) and >that I'm very much aiming at circuits that others will learn from and >adapt for their own uses. > >Soon I'll publish part B, computer-assisted scanning, after I get that >written up. That will be followed by part C, determining logic equations, >and part D, reconstructing an equivalent fuse map. These documents, >as they're revised, will be available over the web at > > http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/reverse-engineer/ > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 > > >How to Reverse Engineer a Non-Stated Programmable Logic Device Using >Nothing but Stone Knives and Bear Skins. > >Revision 0.1 / 3-Mar-2000 >Tim Shoppa, shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com > > INTRODUCTION > >Computer collectors often come across programmable logic devices >(bipolar PROMs, PALs, GALs, etc.) in their hardware. They may want >knowledge of the device to improve, customize, or modify it, they may >want to know what it is doing purely out of curiosity, or they might >want to simply be able to replace device in the future in case of >hardware failure. As the original manufacturer of the equipment has >almost always disavowed all support and knowledge of the programmed >devices, here I tell how you can determine the function of the device, >even if it has had (for example) a security fuse blown. > > ASSUMPTIONS > >Here I assume the following: > >1. The reader of this document has at least a little bit of >familiarity with electronics - enough to wire up simple logic circuits >on solderless breadboards, and use a logic probe or multimeter, and >find pin 1 on an IC. Those who aren't familiar with electronics should >start elsewhere for the very basics - I strongly recommend Don Lancaster's >_TTL Cookbook_ and Horowitz and Hill's _The Art of Electronics_. > >2. The device to be reverse-engineered is easily removed from its >circuit for testing. Very often, bipolar PROM's and many PAL's >are already socketed for easy removal. While it is undoubtedly possible >to apply the techniques I describe here to in-circuit testing, >there are complications of in-circuit testing that I'm not ready to >discuss in general. > >3. The device to be reverse-engineered doesn't have any internal "state". >Again, the principles discussed here can also be used with, for example, >registered PAL's, but interpreting the results and ensuring that all internal >states are exercised is not discussed here. > >4. Here I also assume that device being reverse-engineered doesn't have >any tri-stated outputs. The techniques discussed here *do* allow for devices >which have pins that are fuse-programmable for input only or output only. > > STEP 1: DETERMININING DEVICE POWER CONNECTIONS > >For many programmable devices (especially PALs and GALs, and many >bipolar PROMs) the Vcc and Ground power connections follow the >"standard" TTL conventions - i.e. for a 14 pin device, Vcc is at >pin 14, ground is at pin 7. For a 20 pin device, Vcc is at pin 20, >ground is at pin 10. usw. > >Not all programmable devices follow these conventions. Usually some >simple testing with an ohmmeter, checking for connection to +5V and >Ground at some known IC or connector on the circuit board, will reveal the >actual connections. > >It's vitally important that you are sure about the Vcc and ground connections. >IC's don't like having power applied backwards across them. Seeing as >how you've already decided that the part in question is worth reverse >engineering - probably because it's irreplacable - it's wise to be very >careful about this phase. > >OK, now that we know which pins are Vcc and ground, put the device on >your favorite solderless breadboard and apply power. Be sure to bypass >Vcc to ground near the device with an appropriate bypass capacitor >(say, 0.001 to 0.01 uF). > > STEP 2: DETERMINING INS AND OUTS > >If you've got a good logic probe - one that can distinguish a high >from a low from an open circuit - this stage is easy. Just use the >logic probe to test each unknown pin - if it's definitely high or low, >then it's an output. If it's open circuit or high impedance, it's probably >an input. > >My logic probe is a $7.99 device I bought at a local electronics store >many years ago. It detects high, low, and open circuits, and also has >a pulse stretcher for making very brief output pulses visible. >I recommend that anyone doing anything even remotely >related to digital electronics have such a tool. But for those who don't >have such a tool, you can use a milliameter to do the equivalent thing. >Attach one end of a milliameter to Vcc through a 1K resistor, and scan >through all the unknown pins on the device with the other end of the >milliameter. If you see a current of 3-5 mA, you've found an output >which is low. Now attach one end of the milliameter to ground with >a 1K resistor, and scan through the remaining unknown pins with the other >end of the milliameter. If you see a current of 2-5 mA on any pin, you've >found an output which is high. Any remaining pins that didn't show >appreciable current flow through either pass with the milliameter is >now known to be an input. > > STEP 3: SCAN THROUGH ALL THE INPUTS > >OK, now we fall back on one of my favorite methods of all: Brute Force. >Say we started out with a 24-pin device, and found two of the pins to be >Vcc and Ground, and found three other pins which tested to be outputs. >That leaves 19 pins as inputs. There are 2^19, or about half a million, >possible input patterns to this device. That might sound like a lot, but >it really isn't - by using our friend, the 74LS93, to scan through the >inputs we can scan through this in under a second if we want. > >The 74LS93 is a 4-bit binary counter. We're going to chain as many >as necessary together (in the example above, 5 74LS93's gives us a >20-bit counter, enough to scan through 2^20 or a million input states) >to scan our device under test. I bought 5 74LS93's at a local electronic >store in a 5-unit "Jim-Pak" for under $3.00. > >Each 74LS93 stage is wired together according to the following >schematic: > Qa Qd Clk Qc Qd > Out Out Out Out Out > ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ > | | | | | > | | | | | > /----------------* *----/ | | > | | | | | > | Clk | | | | > | in | | Gnd | | > | ^ | | ^ | | > | | | | | | | > | | | | | | | > | --------------------------------------- > | | 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 | > | | | > | | | > | | | > | | | > | ) 74LS93 | > | | | > | | | > | | | > | | | > | | | > | | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 | > | --------------------------------------- > | | | | | > | | | | | > \------/ \----* v > | Vcc > v > RESET > IN > >Note that the 74LS93 doesn't follow the TTL convention of putting >ground in the lower right and Vcc on the upper left! Again, we're >dealing with clocked logic here, so to prevent output changes from making >power supply glitches that feed into nearby stages it's good practice >to bypass Vcc to ground near each IC with a bypass capacitor. > >To chain the above counters together, run clock out from the first >74LS93 to clock in on the second 74LS93, clock out from the second >74LS93 to clock in on the third 74LS93, etc. > >The "RESET IN" connection to each counting stage should be tied low >for normal counting, and momentarily tied high to reset all the counters. >I tied all the reset ins together on my solderless breadboard and >hooked them to ground for normal operation. To reset the counters, >I move the wire to Vcc briefly and back. > > STEP 4: NON-COMPUTER ASSISTED SCANNING > >OK, now we tie Qa-Qd from each counting stage to "input" pins on the >device to be scanned. I also like to watch the most significant counting >bit cycle, so I hook it (through a 1K or so resistor) to a LED whose >anode is hooked to +5V. And we also need a clock to step the counters >through all the possible patterns. I used a 555 (again, a part that >ought to be available everywhere) to make a simple oscillator: > > Gnd > ^ > | > | C1 > Vcc _____ > ^ _____ > | | > *-- /-- *-----------------\ > | \ | \ | Gnd | > | /R | /R | ^ | > | \1 | \2 | | C2 | > | / | / | _____ | > | ---* ---* _____ | > | | | | | > | | | | | > /-----------------------------\ | > | 8 7 6 5 | | > | | | > | | | > | | | > | | | > ) 555 | | > | | | > | | | > | | | > | | | > | | | > | 1 2 3 4 | | > \-----------------------------/ | > | | | | | > | | | | | > v | | v | > Gnd | v Vcc | > | Clk | > | Out | > | | > \-----------------------/ > > >C2 is a 0.01 uF capacitor to bypass the threshold divider to ground. >It's non-critical, and the circuit will probably work without it. > >The resistor and capacitor values are noncritical; I happened to >use R1=R2=220 ohms, and C1=0.047 uF, to get a clock rate of somewhere >around 30 kHz for initial testing. Making C ten times smaller will up >the clock rate by a factor of ten; making it ten times larger will slow down >the clock rate by a factor of ten. The clock rate you choose will depend >on how large of a space you have to scan. > >OK, now feed Clk Out from the 555 to Clk In on the first 74LS93 stage. >With a logic probe, you'll see high-frequency pulses coming out of the >first stages of the counter, and on the last stages you'll see the pulse >rate divided down by however many stages of divide-by-2 you have wired in. >If you've wired a LED to the most significant bit, you'll see it cycle >on-off-on as you go through all the possible binary output patterns. > >Now move the logic probe to an output of the programmable device. With >any luck, you'll see output pulses here flashing in a repeating cycle >that coincides with the MSB LED hooked to the last counter stage. > > STEP 5: DETERMINING WHICH INPUTS GIVE > INTERESTING OUTPUTS > >OK, now suppose that our logic probe has told us that the output from our >PAL under test is "high" almost all the time, but goes low only a few times >per input cycle. If the PAL was used as an address decoder - as many of >the ones I deal with are used - then this is a very likely case. > >So to find the input that causes the output to go low, we gate the >clock signal from the 555 with the PAL output through a NAND gate. >When the PAL output goes low, the clock pulses will no longer be applied >to the counter, and the counters will stop at the input which caused >the PAL output to go low. > > (1/4 of a 74LS00 NAND) > > |------- > Clk out from 555 ---------------| ) > | )O------- Clk in to first 74LS93 > Out from PAL ---------------| ) > |------- > >When the counters stop, just use a logic probe to read off the logic >states that produce the interesting "input" state. > >To continue scanning, momentarily lift the "out from PAL" signal from the >74LS00. This input will float high, and the counters will start scanning again. >If you suspect that there might be other "PAL output low" combinations, >it may be worthwhile to slow down or stop the 555 clock signal while >you momentarily lift the "out from PAL" signal. For this purpose, >I keep a largish electrolytic around to plug in parallel across the the >capacitor that sets the 555 time constant. > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 >

26 years, 4 months

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Contact info for Paxton?

by chris＠mainecoon.com

[Sorry for blasting the list with this, but I've got a logistical nightmare that I'm trying to solve in the next few hours] If anyone knows how to contact Paxton in an expedient fashion (i.e., on the phone) I'd appreciate it if they could do so and tell him to check his mail -- I've just received a call from the trucking company that's supposed to be collecting the 3880 and 3350 that he dug up; their some four hours away and looking for information on where they're supposed to collect the stuff. Again, my apologies for broadcasting this, but I'm kinda desperate just now... -- Chris Kennedy chris(a)mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97

26 years, 4 months

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How to Reverse Engineer a Non-Stated Programmable Logic Device Using Stone Knives and Bear Skins

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

Here's part A of my promised document on reverse engineering programmable logic devices. I suspect that it's too technically complex for about 49% of the audience, too technically simplistic for 50% of the audience, and right on target for only about 1% of the audience. Well, that's how the dice fall! I'm sure that my circuit-design techniques will be viciously attacked here too. My emphasis was on using commonly available parts, and even though I happened to use my time-tested favorites, I'm sure some folks will despise me because I happened to stoop as low as using a 555 in a circuit. Please take into account that I know that the hardware I'm using here is primitive (thus the "stone knives and bear skins" in the title) and that I'm very much aiming at circuits that others will learn from and adapt for their own uses. Soon I'll publish part B, computer-assisted scanning, after I get that written up. That will be followed by part C, determining logic equations, and part D, reconstructing an equivalent fuse map. These documents, as they're revised, will be available over the web at http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/reverse-engineer/ -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 How to Reverse Engineer a Non-Stated Programmable Logic Device Using Nothing but Stone Knives and Bear Skins. Revision 0.1 / 3-Mar-2000 Tim Shoppa, shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com INTRODUCTION Computer collectors often come across programmable logic devices (bipolar PROMs, PALs, GALs, etc.) in their hardware. They may want knowledge of the device to improve, customize, or modify it, they may want to know what it is doing purely out of curiosity, or they might want to simply be able to replace device in the future in case of hardware failure. As the original manufacturer of the equipment has almost always disavowed all support and knowledge of the programmed devices, here I tell how you can determine the function of the device, even if it has had (for example) a security fuse blown. ASSUMPTIONS Here I assume the following: 1. The reader of this document has at least a little bit of familiarity with electronics - enough to wire up simple logic circuits on solderless breadboards, and use a logic probe or multimeter, and find pin 1 on an IC. Those who aren't familiar with electronics should start elsewhere for the very basics - I strongly recommend Don Lancaster's _TTL Cookbook_ and Horowitz and Hill's _The Art of Electronics_. 2. The device to be reverse-engineered is easily removed from its circuit for testing. Very often, bipolar PROM's and many PAL's are already socketed for easy removal. While it is undoubtedly possible to apply the techniques I describe here to in-circuit testing, there are complications of in-circuit testing that I'm not ready to discuss in general. 3. The device to be reverse-engineered doesn't have any internal "state". Again, the principles discussed here can also be used with, for example, registered PAL's, but interpreting the results and ensuring that all internal states are exercised is not discussed here. 4. Here I also assume that device being reverse-engineered doesn't have any tri-stated outputs. The techniques discussed here *do* allow for devices which have pins that are fuse-programmable for input only or output only. STEP 1: DETERMININING DEVICE POWER CONNECTIONS For many programmable devices (especially PALs and GALs, and many bipolar PROMs) the Vcc and Ground power connections follow the "standard" TTL conventions - i.e. for a 14 pin device, Vcc is at pin 14, ground is at pin 7. For a 20 pin device, Vcc is at pin 20, ground is at pin 10. usw. Not all programmable devices follow these conventions. Usually some simple testing with an ohmmeter, checking for connection to +5V and Ground at some known IC or connector on the circuit board, will reveal the actual connections. It's vitally important that you are sure about the Vcc and ground connections. IC's don't like having power applied backwards across them. Seeing as how you've already decided that the part in question is worth reverse engineering - probably because it's irreplacable - it's wise to be very careful about this phase. OK, now that we know which pins are Vcc and ground, put the device on your favorite solderless breadboard and apply power. Be sure to bypass Vcc to ground near the device with an appropriate bypass capacitor (say, 0.001 to 0.01 uF). STEP 2: DETERMINING INS AND OUTS If you've got a good logic probe - one that can distinguish a high >from a low from an open circuit - this stage is easy. Just use the logic probe to test each unknown pin - if it's definitely high or low, then it's an output. If it's open circuit or high impedance, it's probably an input. My logic probe is a $7.99 device I bought at a local electronics store many years ago. It detects high, low, and open circuits, and also has a pulse stretcher for making very brief output pulses visible. I recommend that anyone doing anything even remotely related to digital electronics have such a tool. But for those who don't have such a tool, you can use a milliameter to do the equivalent thing. Attach one end of a milliameter to Vcc through a 1K resistor, and scan through all the unknown pins on the device with the other end of the milliameter. If you see a current of 3-5 mA, you've found an output which is low. Now attach one end of the milliameter to ground with a 1K resistor, and scan through the remaining unknown pins with the other end of the milliameter. If you see a current of 2-5 mA on any pin, you've found an output which is high. Any remaining pins that didn't show appreciable current flow through either pass with the milliameter is now known to be an input. STEP 3: SCAN THROUGH ALL THE INPUTS OK, now we fall back on one of my favorite methods of all: Brute Force. Say we started out with a 24-pin device, and found two of the pins to be Vcc and Ground, and found three other pins which tested to be outputs. That leaves 19 pins as inputs. There are 2^19, or about half a million, possible input patterns to this device. That might sound like a lot, but it really isn't - by using our friend, the 74LS93, to scan through the inputs we can scan through this in under a second if we want. The 74LS93 is a 4-bit binary counter. We're going to chain as many as necessary together (in the example above, 5 74LS93's gives us a 20-bit counter, enough to scan through 2^20 or a million input states) to scan our device under test. I bought 5 74LS93's at a local electronic store in a 5-unit "Jim-Pak" for under $3.00. Each 74LS93 stage is wired together according to the following schematic: Qa Qd Clk Qc Qd Out Out Out Out Out ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ | | | | | | | | | | /----------------* *----/ | | | | | | | | Clk | | | | | in | | Gnd | | | ^ | | ^ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | --------------------------------------- | | 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ) 74LS93 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 | | --------------------------------------- | | | | | | | | | | \------/ \----* v | Vcc v RESET IN Note that the 74LS93 doesn't follow the TTL convention of putting ground in the lower right and Vcc on the upper left! Again, we're dealing with clocked logic here, so to prevent output changes from making power supply glitches that feed into nearby stages it's good practice to bypass Vcc to ground near each IC with a bypass capacitor. To chain the above counters together, run clock out from the first 74LS93 to clock in on the second 74LS93, clock out from the second 74LS93 to clock in on the third 74LS93, etc. The "RESET IN" connection to each counting stage should be tied low for normal counting, and momentarily tied high to reset all the counters. I tied all the reset ins together on my solderless breadboard and hooked them to ground for normal operation. To reset the counters, I move the wire to Vcc briefly and back. STEP 4: NON-COMPUTER ASSISTED SCANNING OK, now we tie Qa-Qd from each counting stage to "input" pins on the device to be scanned. I also like to watch the most significant counting bit cycle, so I hook it (through a 1K or so resistor) to a LED whose anode is hooked to +5V. And we also need a clock to step the counters through all the possible patterns. I used a 555 (again, a part that ought to be available everywhere) to make a simple oscillator: Gnd ^ | | C1 Vcc _____ ^ _____ | | *-- /-- *-----------------\ | \ | \ | Gnd | | /R | /R | ^ | | \1 | \2 | | C2 | | / | / | _____ | | ---* ---* _____ | | | | | | | | | | | /-----------------------------\ | | 8 7 6 5 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ) 555 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 1 2 3 4 | | \-----------------------------/ | | | | | | | | | | | v | | v | Gnd | v Vcc | | Clk | | Out | | | \-----------------------/ C2 is a 0.01 uF capacitor to bypass the threshold divider to ground. It's non-critical, and the circuit will probably work without it. The resistor and capacitor values are noncritical; I happened to use R1=R2=220 ohms, and C1=0.047 uF, to get a clock rate of somewhere around 30 kHz for initial testing. Making C ten times smaller will up the clock rate by a factor of ten; making it ten times larger will slow down the clock rate by a factor of ten. The clock rate you choose will depend on how large of a space you have to scan. OK, now feed Clk Out from the 555 to Clk In on the first 74LS93 stage. With a logic probe, you'll see high-frequency pulses coming out of the first stages of the counter, and on the last stages you'll see the pulse rate divided down by however many stages of divide-by-2 you have wired in. If you've wired a LED to the most significant bit, you'll see it cycle on-off-on as you go through all the possible binary output patterns. Now move the logic probe to an output of the programmable device. With any luck, you'll see output pulses here flashing in a repeating cycle that coincides with the MSB LED hooked to the last counter stage. STEP 5: DETERMINING WHICH INPUTS GIVE INTERESTING OUTPUTS OK, now suppose that our logic probe has told us that the output from our PAL under test is "high" almost all the time, but goes low only a few times per input cycle. If the PAL was used as an address decoder - as many of the ones I deal with are used - then this is a very likely case. So to find the input that causes the output to go low, we gate the clock signal from the 555 with the PAL output through a NAND gate. When the PAL output goes low, the clock pulses will no longer be applied to the counter, and the counters will stop at the input which caused the PAL output to go low. (1/4 of a 74LS00 NAND) |------- Clk out from 555 ---------------| ) | )O------- Clk in to first 74LS93 Out from PAL ---------------| ) |------- When the counters stop, just use a logic probe to read off the logic states that produce the interesting "input" state. To continue scanning, momentarily lift the "out from PAL" signal from the 74LS00. This input will float high, and the counters will start scanning again. If you suspect that there might be other "PAL output low" combinations, it may be worthwhile to slow down or stop the 555 clock signal while you momentarily lift the "out from PAL" signal. For this purpose, I keep a largish electrolytic around to plug in parallel across the the capacitor that sets the 555 time constant. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

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PDP-11/55s avail

by oliv555＠arrl.net

Got a message at work about four 11/55s available due to an upgrade. These are not freebies, in fact they are asking some big $$$ and come with the expensive Fastbus bipolar memory. I did not get permission to repost so if your site has need for these contact me off-list and I will provide the contact info. Nick

26 years, 4 months

1
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Early Mac Clones

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

While trying to dig up some info on some Mac hardware, I ran across the following web page of early mac clones (over 10 years old). Some interesting stuff there. http://lowendmac.net/firstclones.shtml Unitron Mac512, circa 1985 McMobile, 1986-89 Outbound Laptop, Portable, 1989-91 Atari ST & Magic Sac Colby WalkMac, circa 1989 Dynamac, 1988-89 Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 4 months

2
1
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decayed capstan in Archive QIC

by edick＠idcomm.com

Tough it can require some disassembly, another trick might be to apply 'SILASTIC' to the metal post which supports the roller and to which it's fastened. It takes a bit more patience, but less force, and, once cured, the 'SILASTIC' can be worked with a DREMEL tool to reduce its diameter or to shape it as needed. I made a couple of these in a lathe and ground them true and flat with a toolpost grinder. You can even make a capstan that way, since the stuff is really quite hard when cured, yet more forgiving than other materials often used in these drives. Silastic is not particularly prone to creep or abrade and it's quite inert, chemically. If the temperature varies much, there will be a bit of dimensional change, so try to measure it when it's at nominally room temperature. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Technoid(a)cheta.net <Technoid(a)cheta.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 7:15 PM Subject: Re: decayed capstan in Archive QIC >I fixed my qic tape drive this way: > >Open the drive and scrape away the goo that used to be what I called the >drive bogy from the shaft it is on. > >Find a roller from a printer. I used an output roller from my Epson >Actionprinter 3250. The inside diameter is MUCH smaller than the drive's >driveshaft. Don't worry. Cut the length of the replacement roller to the >correct length or it will cause the drive to bind and that is not good. > >Take a ballpoint pen of the kind you can remove the business end from. I >used a cheap, non retractable bic. I streached the roller over the body >of the pen using the nose of the pen as a starter beacuse the diameter of >the roller is so tiny. Once you get the roller past the removable end and >it is fully on the body of the pen, remove the nose from the pen. > >Clean the drive's driveshaft with alcohol or fingernail polish remover to >remove any traces of the old gooey roller. Fingernail polish remover is >great stuff for dissolving the rubber goo but remember that they put stuff >in it to make it 'good for you' like vitamin E. Clean the shaft >thoroughly with alcohol after useing the remover or if you are more >organized than I am, you will have some ACETONE around which is the same >thing without the gook added. > >Place the now blunt end of the pen against the face of the driveshaft and >slide the streached roller onto the shaft. Once it is on, check to make >sure it is of the correct width so as not to contact the case of the tape >or the tape its'self. it should only contact the drive bogey on the tape >when the tape is inserted in the drive. > >You are done and the roller will last at least months as mine has if not >for years. > >Good luck. This took me about two hours to conceive of and accomplish and >my Data General 6311 tape drive has had many many happy hours of >shoeshining tapes without fail since. My drive is a bit larger than most >of the little qic (DC2000 type) drives but I was scoping those drives for >a replacement roller and noticed that the bogeys are about the same size >on all of them. > >Technoid Mutant at your service > >-- >----------------------------------------------------------- >Jeffrey S. Worley >Technical Services >Bits & Bytes Computer Services Inc. >1979B Hendersonville Road >Asheville, NC 28803 >828-684-8953 - voice 0900-1700 five days >828-687-9284 - 24hr fax >Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk? >Technoid(a)Cheta.net >----------------------------------------------------------- >

26 years, 4 months

2
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All Cipher F880 Docs online

by af-list＠wfi-inc.com

Ok, I got the rest of these done today (schematics and engineering drawings). I experimented with many combos of resolution/bit-depth, and the best quality with a managable size ended up being 300dpi/8-bit greyscale/PDF format/JPEG compression. I think they average around 3megs each for 11" x 17" pages. This was the only format that would pick up things like component numbers on schematics/etc. Everything is available at www.retrobytes.org. BTW, if anyone has any suggestions on a better format for these, I'd be happy to try something else! But until then, the quality looks great to me... Cheers, Aaron

26 years, 4 months

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Reverse-engineering for the computer collector

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Mar 2, 16:19, Tim Shoppa wrote: > I've recently put some effort into reverse engineering several > PAL's and other (slightly) more complex programmable logic devices > that have had their security fuse blown. Would folks here be > interested in a general summary of the methods, pointers to > tools and hardware, etc? I certainly would -- I have a couple of small PALs to make backups of, and whilst I could design some gubbins to read them, this would save me some time and effort. And of course give me the incentive to get off my butt and do something about them :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 4 months

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Reverse-engineering for the computer collector

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

I've recently put some effort into reverse engineering several PAL's and other (slightly) more complex programmable logic devices that have had their security fuse blown. Would folks here be interested in a general summary of the methods, pointers to tools and hardware, etc? This *isn't* rocket science, and it isn't putting the device in the output end of a particle accelerator either :-). What I've done here so far involves simple scanning circuits constructed from common-as-dirt parts, and software to process the results of the scans. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

3
2
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teletype photos wanted

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>ASCII models (realize that hams weren't allowed to use ASCII over the >air until sometime in the 1980's). Before anyone corrects me, I now realize that I should've said "US hams" :-) Tim.

26 years, 4 months

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teletype photos wanted

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>But it would still be nice to find a collection of photos of teletypes. >And for that matter, Flexowriters, Creeds, DECwriters, etc. The ARRL used to have a book that dealt with RTTY equipment. I believe the title was something along the lines of "Special Communications Techniques for the Radio Amateur". The 1960's and 1970's editions of this book had good info on the various Teletype and Creed machines, specifically on the Baudot models, and also some information on the ASCII models (realize that hams weren't allowed to use ASCII over the air until sometime in the 1980's). The pictures weren't top-notch (they were generally pretty poor halftones) but there were some. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

1
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Reverse-engineering for the computer collector

by edick＠idcomm.com

Yes, I'd certainly be interested in seeing what you've done. I've put some effort into this sort of thing as well, though I've done it with the printer port on an ad-hoc basis alone. Dick -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com> To: CLASSICCMP(a)classiccmp.org <CLASSICCMP(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Thursday, March 02, 2000 2:31 PM Subject: Reverse-engineering for the computer collector >I've recently put some effort into reverse engineering several >PAL's and other (slightly) more complex programmable logic devices >that have had their security fuse blown. Would folks here be >interested in a general summary of the methods, pointers to >tools and hardware, etc? > >This *isn't* rocket science, and it isn't putting the device in the >output end of a particle accelerator either :-). What I've done >here so far involves simple scanning circuits constructed from >common-as-dirt parts, and software to process the results of the scans. > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

1
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Announcing the San Gabriel Valley Classic Computer Enthusiasts Group!

by af-list＠wfi-inc.com

Hello listers, I am very proud to announce that I have fulfilled one of my goals for the new year, which was the creation of a local enthusiasts group dedicated to restoring and preserving classic technology. Presenting... The San Gabriel Valley Classic Computer Enthusiasts! Please visit us at: http://www.retrobytes.org Since this is mostly my effort at this time, much of the immediate content is directly copied from my personal site (pinout collection, hacks, repair tips, scans of documentation). But I, and our few charter members, are looking forward to being able to provide both a valuable online resource to the classic computer collecting community and a base of contact and fellowship for our local (southern california) collectors/enthusiasts. I just wanted to also say thank you to the members of this list for helping me develop a hobby that has been not only educational, but extremely rewarding and fun to boot. I owe much to you all and deeply appreciate the willingness to freely share knowledge and advice that defines this group. Cheers, Aaron

26 years, 4 months

4
7
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INTERSIL ICL7601CPD info needed

by wrm＠ccii.co.za

>I just obtained a box of goodies, and these Intersil ICL7601CPD 14 pin >ceramic dips were in the lot. I can't seem to locate any information on >them. Can anyone give me a clue? ICL 7600/7601 Commutating Auto-Zero (CAZ) Operational Amplifier Now you know as much as I do :-) Apparently its two op-amps and a bunch of switches, and you switch between the two amps, the inactive one being auto-zeroed while the active one is working. Or something. Beats me :-) Wouter

26 years, 4 months

2
1
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old threaded languages, was Re: Symbolics

by allisonp＠world.std.com

To drag this in a different direction since the LISP discussion brought a few memory frags to the surface... Forth, LISP, PostScript and a few others I'll leave others to name were all similar in that they were stack oriented languages. I never worked with them much save for Postscript (it's core is Forth to me). Now, I vaguely remember a series of articles in Kilobaud, Dr Dobbs or maybe Byte on constructing your own forth like language in the early 80s. Anyone remember these? Are there copies? Allison

26 years, 4 months

4
3
0 0

Early Mac Clones

by mgregory＠vantageresearch.com

One notable emulator/clone they missed was the Amax by ReadySoft for the Amiga. It was a slim grey box that contained sockets for the Mac 512K ROMs (not included) and connected to the Amiga's parallel port (IIRC). It also had a Mac floppy drive connector on the box, so you could attach Mac drives. The early versions were very finicky about the Mac drives that were used. Early 400K drives didn't work, and non-Apple 800K drives didn't work either. When running, it could use all of the Amiga drives and common peripherals (printers, modems, etc.) I believe it was fairly successful - it went through at least 4 hardware versions that I'm aware of, ending with the Amax IV. I was an early purchaser, and I always enjoyed showing off my Amiga with DeluxePaint II open in one window, WordPerfect for DOS in another window (I had an XT bridgeboard), and the Mac desktop in a third window. The best of all worlds, almost. Cheers, Mark. -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Thursday, March 02, 2000 12:45 PM Subject: Early Mac Clones >While trying to dig up some info on some Mac hardware, I ran across the >following web page of early mac clones (over 10 years old). Some >interesting stuff there. > >http://lowendmac.net/firstclones.shtml >Unitron Mac512, circa 1985 >McMobile, 1986-89 >Outbound Laptop, Portable, 1989-91 >Atari ST & Magic Sac >Colby WalkMac, circa 1989 >Dynamac, 1988-89 > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | >

26 years, 4 months

1
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