- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by jwest＠mppw.com

Greetings and salutations; We're in the process of upgrading our mailservers, including the one that hosts the classiccmp mailing list. We're building a new machine with a newer version of the OS (FreeBSD 4.1), and a newer version of majordomo (1.94.5), and then moving the services off the old one and onto the new one. Once done, the hostname, ip address, and all identity of the old machine will be taken over by the new machine (ie. no differences [we hope]). We will do our best to ensure there are no service interruptions, but the following issues are possible: 1) There may be some delays in list traffic during the upgrade 2) Once moved to the new system there may be some "features" that need to be worked out 3) There may be delays in updating the mailing list archives at www.classiccmp.org during the transition Please email me with any problems you may notice to both jlwest(a)tseinc.com and west(a)tseinc.com Thanks! Jay West

25 years, 8 months

29
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Microvax II boards

by ncherry＠home.net

OK, I have my Microvax II KA-630 (thanks Carlos) and I now need to completely understand it. I have discovered the follow boards are in it: KA-630 (CPU w/FPU and 1 Meg RAM) Nemonix NXII-16 (half filled, Meg of RAM) M7608 RAM (4Meg I think) M7516 (DELQA Ethernet adapter) M7555 (2x MFM Disk controller) SI Part # 981-4617 (ESDI board? SCD-RQD11/EC) RCI - Recognition Concepts INC. NO 100220 - Has a TRW 1007J1C3 8451/AP (Analog?) M5976-SA KZQSA (SCSI) Ok this machine has 1 MFM drive (~50M) and another drive (which I haven't kooed up yet). I hope to build the IDE interface in the next few months to save money on the drives. I can get a 760M ESDI drive for ~$300(US). Now the SCSI is borrowed from a BA213 (hence the SA) I intend on knocking out the rivets and making it usable in both machines. I may also upgrade the Nemonix to 15M to get a full 16M. I already have 3 2.5G SCSI (and a 9G SCSI-3 drive, yea I know ...). Does anyone recognize the SI board or the RCI board? What is the minimum size drive for loading VMS 7.2? Any other thoughts? My fingers are itching to learn VMS? One other question, what command do I need to remount the drives on a Microvax II? My machines go off line and I don't know what commands to type to get them back. Thanks. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)

25 years, 8 months

5
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volunteers requested (was Re: Beginner into Micros, etc.)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Jerome asks: > > I guess I pay too much attention to details, but which single computer is it > > you are going to pick up. > > A PDP-10 (KL10) system. Oh holy bat guano, Eric... nice rescue! When was the last time it was operational? Somewhere, I may still have the Macro-10 source code for RWATCH, a superuser hack that floated around the University of Louisville for years. -dq

25 years, 8 months

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Drop the Microsoft & OS Discussion!

by epgroot＠ucdavis.edu

I vote to drop-kick this weeks discussion/useless rant on Windows and other OS's and other pokes to list members. Get back to you classic computers, VAXen, boxen, whatever-you-have-en, which this list is meant for! Anyone with me on this? Edwin

25 years, 8 months

5
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Beginner into Micros, etc.

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> wrote: > Mzthompson(a)aol.com wrote: > > > The answer just came to me: "To be the winner of the contest: He who > > dies with the most 'puters wins." > > > > My latest haul included over 100 machines of the same brand. I had to > > rent a space at a local U-Store-It place. I must be crazy. More on > > this haul later. > > You've got some catching up to do. My 4-bedroom condo, 2-car garage, > and several *thousand* square feet of rental space are filled up with > old computers, documentation, etc. Darn, don't you just hate when we get into a size enumeration contest. Remember what they say "Size doesn't matter." Actually Eric, I had to rent the storage space, the three car garage which also contains two other rooms 8x20 & 8x10, and a good size loft were already full. And although there is still room in the 30x40 barn with its loft, I only use it for the stuff that is probably destined for the recyclers/scrappers. I would like to have had it closer so I could test this stuff easier, but had no choice. And then Gary Hildebrand <ghldbrd(a)ccp.com> wrote: > You very well might be crazy. Not many others have that many computers on > hand, except maybe Best Buy, or Office Depot. > Remember, your addiction could be cars, or ships too, so count your > blessings --- all 100 of them. Thank you, Gary. You need not look farther than Iowa to find words of wisdom and the good side of the situation. If only my SO could see the silver lining. ;-) Mike

25 years, 8 months

2
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MMJ Info

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

Info on the MMJ connector found on various DEC terminals & computers. --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- DEC uses an MMJ (Modified Modular Jack) connector on its equipment for serial data communications. DEC calls the mating plug on the cable an MMP (Modified Modular Plug), only the term is not used as often and most of the time is just simply referred to as MMJ. It is like a modular telephone connector, only the key on the connector is offset, not in the center like a standard telco connector. Looking at the back of a VT320 for example the MMJ looks something like this. -------------------- | * * * * * * | -------------- -- |____| 1 2 3 4 5 6 are the pinout numbers --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- The signals are: # I/0 Desc 1 > DTR Data Terminal Ready 2 > TXD Transmit Data 3 - TXD- (ie Gnd) 4 - RXD- (ie Gnd) 5 < RXD Receive Data 6 < DSR Data Set Ready > = terminal or computer output signal < = terminal or computer input signal --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- DEC's part number for the cable is BC16E-xx, with the xx being the length. The cable is made so that the connector on one end is mounted 'right side up' and the other end 'upside down'. In other words, the key tabs on the connector are on opposite sides of the flat cable. // ---- ---- | |---------------------------------------| | ---- ---- // That is effect causes the signal lines to cross-connect or as I like to say 'turn over' from one end to the other. MMJ port on DEC MMJ port on DEC VT320 terminal computer or DECserver DTR 1 --->-------------->----------------->--- 6 DSR TXD 2 --->-------------->----------------->--- 5 RXD 3 ---------------------------------------- 4 4 ---------------------------------------- 3 RXD 5 ---<--------------<-----------------<--- 2 TXD DSR 6 ---<--------------<-----------------<--- 1 DTR --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- I had a DEC MMP cable that someone cut one end off so I wired it to a female 9-pin D connector to use with a PC 9-pin serial port. Wired as follows: MMJ DE9 1 6 2 2 3 5 4 5 5 3 6 4 This was to use a PC as the console on a DECsystem 5500 and/or one of the ports on a DECstation 3100. I actually did not connect DE9-6 to MMJ-1. It worked fine without it. I later made a breakout box with two 9 pin D connectors and an MMJ socket along with the means to disconnect and rewire as needed. I found that it works fine without DE9-4 being wired to MMJ-6. In other words, using only the two data lines and ground. Your mileage may vary, depending on how things are setup. --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- DEC makes several adapters to adapt the MMJ to 9/25-pin D connectors. The H8571-A and H8575-A are MMJ to DB25 (female) and are wired as follows: MMJ DB25 1 20 2 2 3 7 4 7 5 3 6 6 & 8 Also pins 4 & 5 of the DB25 are tied together I have used the above using a standard DEC BC16E cable to connect to a PC 25-pin serial port to use the PC as a terminal. --------------- The H8571-C and H8571-F are MMJ to DB25 (male) and are wired as follows: MMJ DB25 1 6 2 3 3 7 4 7 5 2 6 20 --------------- The H8571-B an MMJ to DE9 (female) and is supposedly wired as follows: MMJ DE9 1 5 2 2 3 7 4 7 5 3 6 6 & maybe 8 (depending on which DEC manual you read) I have never seen one, so have not actually checked how it is wired. It should be noted that this is not wired correctly for PC 9-pin serial ports, besides the gender of the 9-pin connector is wrong. DEC says that this is used for connecting to 9-pin printer ports. --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- And here is a summary on how the various signal lines match up to each other on the different connectors. Term Term MMJ MMJ port on DEC DB25 DE9 computer or Decserver 20 4 1 --->-------------->----------------->--- 6 2 3 2 --->-------------->----------------->--- 5 7 5 3 ---------------------------------------- 4 7 5 4 ---------------------------------------- 3 3 2 5 ---<--------------<-----------------<--- 2 6 6 6 ---<--------------<-----------------<--- 1 --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- ---------------

25 years, 8 months

3
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Cold storage

by fauradon＠mn.mediaone.net

Yeah I do not inted to operate any of them in the shed (no juice there). I do not have the storage parameters for most of them so I'm looking for a generality. I will pull out all batteries and desolder the ones I can desolder. Where can I find dessicant? Francois -----Original Message----- From: Jim Arnott <jrasite(a)eoni.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Saturday, October 21, 2000 10:24 AM Subject: Re: Cold storage >Thoughts... > >Should be okay if: > >you pull the cmos/pram batteries >you seal in plastic with dessicant > >Of course, I could be wrong. You might also check the typical >'environmental conditions' for the systems though I believe that >that's operational parameters... > >Jim Arnott

25 years, 8 months

3
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Cold storage

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> I think so but I'd put each one in a plastic bad adn seal it first to >prevent condensation. Add silica gell to keep it dry in the bag. Prevent vermin from attacking it or nesting in it. Cold will generally not hurt anything. Heat can be worse. >>Should I insulate the shed first? Wouldn't hurt but making sure the wildlife don't go in and out all the time is important. Allison

25 years, 8 months

2
1
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Vax Station 3100

by ncherry＠home.net

I just got my VS3100 and it has no drive (I expected that). It has a part number of PM20A-AB. It has ~16M of RAM, a Video ram sim and nothing else. What do I have? What RAM can this beast take? How large a drive can it take? The only other marking are BA42A and CPU KN01. Thanks PS This beast will be the drives for my Microvax ii until I get an IDE card in it. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)

25 years, 8 months

7
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Idiotic people who do not know the value of classic equipment

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

And the sad part is that the idiots are everywhere, including a local instituition of higher learning. I have said it before, and probably even on this forum, that being a member of such an instituition in no way indicates any common sense whatsoever. The latest just proves that it applies to just plain smarts as well. One of my friends who works there (until recently) returned from vacation a few weeks back to find that much documentation had been pitched, including the documentation for the currently in use machines and operating systems. Last year, while he was on vacation, they managed to fill a dumpster with DEC hardware, VAXstations, DECstations, uVAX 2000's to name some. He had already made arrangements for he and I to haul it off and we were just waiting for some warmer weather. He managed to dive and save a few, but the students who did the actual tossing had 'popped' the monitors. It was just to dangerous to dive very deep. There is a good side to this story though. Last month he heard the rumor of the decision to pitch some more and moved on it quickly. We started hauling almost immediately. In addition to the 100 BrandX machines mentioned in another post yesterday, they also allowed us to take a few DEC & SUN machines. He has since then left for greener pastures, but we believe we now have them 'trained' to call us as they retire more DEC in the near future. Only time will tell. Mike

25 years, 8 months

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NatSemi 32000 (Was: RE: Drop the Microsoft & OS Discussion!)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 21, 3:24, Derek Peschel wrote: > Second, I believe Acorn made a 32016 "second processor" box for their BBC > Micro. Those boxes connect to the main machine (2MHz 6502) via a 2MHz bus > (the Tube) with a semi-custom chip (with a couple of FIFOs and some > registers) at each end. I believe the second processor has a stub OS in ROM > with entry points matching the ones in the main machine. The main OS knows > how to process calls from the Tube and how to download software to the Tube. > I thin the OS on the 32016 second processor was TRIPOS. I'm still sorting > out the conflicting docs -- one of them mentions UNIX but that might have > been scrapped. I don't think it was either. I think it was an Acorn proprietary OS called PANOS, which looked vaguely Unix-like. IIRC, it used BCPL rather than C. Somewhere I have all the advertising blurb (but not accessible ATM, if it's where I think it is), and I used to have a complete set of PANOS disks and docs, but I may have given that to someone who actually has a 32016. I never did, though for a while I did have an Acorn Scientific, which was a Beeb and 32016 co-pro integated in a bulky box with colour monitor and hard drive. PANOS, by the way, was names after a certain rather good Greek restaurant in Cambridge, which Acorn staff were later banned from -- not because of the OS, I hasten to add, but allegedly because one night Chris Curry took a swing at Clive Sinclair in there. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 8 months

1
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classiccmp web page traffic report

by west＠tseinc.com

You know, it never dawned on me to tell people about this... i just thought about it and took a look and was suprised at the statistics :) For the traffic report of www.classiccmp.org, go to http://webtrends.tseinc.com/www.classiccmp.org Regards! Jay West PS - I'm still waiting for those two anonymous RK05 drives to show up, but HP 7900A's will do just fine too :)

25 years, 8 months

3
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Semi-OT: "Mining" Web Sites

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

OK, I've got a question that I'm really not sure how to go about looking for the answer to. I know that there used to be commercial products for the Mac that did this several years ago, but I think their long gone. Basically the platform the software runs on doesn't matter as long as it isn't Windows. I'm looking for a software package that can take a snapshot of a website for archival purposes and go 'x' levels deep. I want it to be able to snag stuff such as PDF documents. The problem being that every time I turn around Compaq has managed to loose even more of the old DEC hardware related documentation, and if it's still there it takes ages to find it. I've saved numerous PDF files, but I'm now wanting to do a better job of mirroring the data and preserving it. For an example of the problem good luck figuring out which old PCI video cards are supported by OpenVMS! My thought is to archive specific area's and toss them on CD-R for latter access via a web browser. So something that can update the links to a local disk structure is also needed. I'm sure I'm not the only one experiencing simular problems, or having a desire to do something like this. I'm also fairly sure this kind of a tool is of interest to this group. Zane

25 years, 8 months

5
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NatSemi 32000 (Was: RE: Drop the Microsoft & OS Discussion!)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> I vote to drop-kick this weeks discussion/useless rant > on Windows and other OS's and other pokes to list members. > Get back to you classic computers, VAXen, boxen, > whatever-you-have-en, which this list is meant for! > > Anyone with me on this? I've heard little discussion (since I joined earlier this year) about the National Semiconductor 32000 processor line. IIRC, some (but not all) of the chips in this family were true 3-address machines. Anyone familiar with them? Do any significant assembly language programming on one? -dq

25 years, 8 months

4
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nice paper on Multics emacs

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > http://www.best.com/~thvv/mepap.html > That link could go away if Tom ever chose to re-host the site. He says this link is the permanent one: http://www.multicians.org/mepap.html > As Eric pointed out, it's nice to keep the h/w, but it's even > better if you can keep the s/w! (And, no, I don't know where > to get a copy of Multics emacs...) Two problems: It's written in PL/I and MacLisp. While the source to both of those exist, Bernie has said parts of MacLisp utilize some of the special EIS instructions in the 6180 machine that may or may not have ever been completely documented, so it's really tied to the hardware. But here's a teaser in the form of the comment block from the Multics Emacs Incremental Redisplay module, which was written in Lisp: ;;; ****************************************************** ;;; * * ;;; * * ;;; * Copyright (c) 1978 by Massachusetts Institute of * ;;; * Technology and Honeywell Information Systems, Inc. * ;;; * * ;;; * * ;;; ****************************************************** ;;; ;;; ;;; Multics EMACS Redisplay ;;; Greenberg, March 1978 ;;; 3/6/78 inceptus Luna meo adjutorio. ;;; 4/19/78 duas fenestras feci. ;;; 5/30/78 ^V creavi. ;;; 6/18/78 signum linearum elongatarum, ^0^L, &c ;;; 7/5/78 Cuncta lineae comparandae sunt, quicumque sint. ;;; 7/27/78 Ostendae sunt lineae quae non in textu sunt. ;;; 8/23/78 Dua fenestrae tacebant, atque mundae factae erant. ;;; 9/6/78 Indices linearum originalum per fenestris comparo. ;;; 3/1/79 Quando laboro in medio linearum elongatarum, omnes moveatur. ;;; 4/4/79 Minibuffer in multos divisus est. ;;; 4/12/79 Mille fenestrae florent. ;;; 8/24/79 ^V et ESC-V argumentes dedi. ;;; Septembri 1979 hoc redisplicator Paltere sustenetur. ;;; 2/12/80 tty-no-cleolp impletur, ;;; mode-line-hook & local-display-end-string ;;; 10/23/80 Praefix minibufferis non delendum est. ;;; 1980 Decembri e manibus meis dimissi te ut sole per mundum ambules. ;;; ;;; Welcome to the rosy-fingered dawn of the New Era: ;;; Presenting, at popular demand; ;;; A Comment In English! ;;; ;;; 30 June 1981 Extending local displays, Richard Mark Soley ;;; 1 July 1981 suppress-remarks and minibuffer-clear-all, Richard Soley ;;; 5 November 1981 truncate overlength modelines, Richard Soley ;;; 19 August 1982 fixed inverse-real-world-xcoord for \c lines, ;;; Barry Margolin ;;; 20 August 1982 added CAH's real underlining code, Barry Margolin ;;; 12 October 1982 modified underlining to use constant 400, Barmar ;;; -dq

25 years, 8 months

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Preserving a Multics System

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > > So is anyone archiving the software for this Mulitcs system? > > > > An archive of Multics exists at MIT. If my recent personal > > experiences with 9 track magtape can be considered representative > > and not anecdotal, then I think the tapes will still be readable > > even ten years from now. > > > What kind of 9-Track tape drives can read these tapes though? IIRC, the > drives we had on the DPS-8's were pretty much bog-standard 9-Tracks (I > remember writting a tape to be read on a Sun box). Well, these tapes were written by Multics tape_archive command (the granddaddy of tar). Back in '93, someone at MIT used what I presume was tar on some Un*x to restore the archive to the MIT Andrew File System. However, tar seems not to have handled the Multics symbolic links occuring on the tape before the objects to which they pointed, so not everything got restored. In particular, the portion of the archive that should have included the running binaries was not restored. This would mean recompiling the system and generating the boot image, but there's a worse problem... The most serious problem with the archive, though, was that MIT never had the source to the later Multics PL/I compiler, though they did at one time have the source to the earlier one. But of course the existing Multics source relies on the later compiler. So, assuming the restored archive contains all the pieces of the OS at the time the snapshot was taken, you'd still need to get or reimplement a PL/I compiler for the Level 68 architecture (a plain DPS-8 is a Level 61, IIRC, while the DPS-8/M is a level 68 machine, the original implementation of which was for the Honeywell 6180 machine). Ultimately, for a proper preservation, permission would have to be secured from Bull to run the OS, have the source, etc. What exists at MIT is valuable for some research on how a Multics was put together, but as a basis for a museum system would leave many many man-years of reprogramming left to be done. As a programmer, for me, that would be the fun part. But I intend on contacting TPTB at MIT to see whether I could donate the labor to attempt a second, more proper restoration of the archive, by using GNU TAR and making whatever changes need to be made to it so that it does the job right. Current plans are to contact them this time next year. -dq

25 years, 8 months

1
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Cold storage

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 10/21/00 10:42:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, fauradon(a)mn.mediaone.net writes: > Should I move to the shed and store the computers in the bedroom? hmm, the answer seems obvious here... DB Young ICQ: 29427634 hurry, hurry, step right up! see the computers you used as a kid! http://www.nothingtodo.org/classiccmp/museum.htm

25 years, 8 months

1
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Semi-OT: "Mining" Web Sites

by LFessen106＠aol.com

In a message dated Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:21:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, healyzh(a)aracnet.com writes: << OK, I've got a question that I'm really not sure how to go about looking for the answer to. I know that there used to be commercial products for the Mac that did this several years ago, but I think their long gone. Basically the platform the software runs on doesn't matter as long as it isn't Windows. I'm looking for a software package that can take a snapshot of a website for archival purposes and go 'x' levels deep. I want it to be able to snag stuff such as PDF documents. Zane >> You are looking for "wget" for Linux and it's (of course) free. -Linc Fessenden

25 years, 8 months

1
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95LX Connectivity Software

by spectre＠stockholm.ptloma.edu

Well, I got the HP 95LX Connectivity software for DOS and it doesn't work! (The disk says "Packed file is corrupt" when I run the install program. DOS 6.0 on a 486 laptop.) Does anyone have an install disk they can zip up and send me? I do have the disks, but they just don't work. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu -- All things are possible, except skiing through a revolving door. -----------

25 years, 8 months

2
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MMJ Info

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

On Thu, 19 Oct 2000, Jerome Fine wrote: > > [Snip] > > The H8571-A and H8575-A are MMJ to DB25 (female) and are wired as follows: > > MMJ DB25 > > 1 20 > > 2 2 > > 3 7 > > 4 7 > > 5 3 > > 6 6 & 8 > > Also pins 4 & 5 of the DB25 are tied together > > I have used the above using a standard DEC BC16E cable to connect to > > a PC 25-pin serial port to use the PC as a terminal. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I have one of the H8575-A, but have not yet done a continuity check to verify > the connections that you state. But I assume that you are correct. One of these > days I will attempt to verify that all of the above works with a VT320. Thank you. These adapters are listed in a few DEC manuals, so that is the primary source of the info. In most cases I have verified the info as well. > Any suggestions on how to verify the above? Can a simple tester do this? A simple VOM. The hard part is staying connected to the pins. To make that a little easier I use some adapters I picked up years ago. These are banana jacks to D connector pins & sockets. You can roll your own, but they are made by Pomona Electronics, p/n's 3560 & 3561. > > The H8571-C and H8571-F are MMJ to DB25 (male) and are wired as follows: > > MMJ DB25 > > 1 6 > > 2 3 > > 3 7 > > 4 7 > > 5 2 > > 6 20 > > I have an H8571-F as well. When I pried apart the DB25 from the housing, > that was what I found. I'm not one to say I told you so, but..... ;-) > > And here is a summary on how the various signal lines match up to > > each other on the different connectors. > > Term Term MMJ MMJ port on DEC > > DB25 DE9 computer or Decserver > > 20 4 1 --->-------------->----------------->--- 6 > > 2 3 2 --->-------------->----------------->--- 5 > > 7 5 3 ---------------------------------------- 4 > > 7 5 4 ---------------------------------------- 3 > > 3 2 5 ---<--------------<-----------------<--- 2 > > 6 6 6 ---<--------------<-----------------<--- 1 > > Seems very reasonable. And it does work since I also connected up two > VT320 terminals using two cables and one female DB25 and one male > DB25 (i.e. one H8575-A and one H8571-F) after I had used just a > single BC16E cable. > > However, I have two more VT320 terminals which I want to connect > and I don't have at least one H8571-F. I assume you meant "I don't have more than one H8571-F" If you need, I got a couple spares. > So here is the question. Since we have both found the cost of the H8575-A > and the H8571-F DB25 MMJ to DB25 connectors to be a bit high in the > price (i.e. more than we want to pay), would it be reasonable to cut the > cable in half and put an ordinary RJ11 phone connector on each cut > end to produce TWO cables? I also happen to have a couple of RJ11 > to DB25 connectors (male) to which I could then connect the newly mated > RJ11 normal style. That way, I would not need to have the DEC MMJ > connectors. However, there is one minor problem - you note that both > pins 3 and 4 are connected to DB25 pin 7! Must that be done? The problem > is that the RJ11 end has all 6 pins connected to 6 individual male components > and it will be a hassle to attempt to connect both of pins 3 and 4 of the RJ11 > to DB25 pin 7 - to say the least. May one be omitted and if so which one? I'll use the standard engineering answer. It depends. That is to say it depends on what you are trying to do. There are times where you only need certain lines, and there are times when you hook up all lines and it still won't work. I have had good luck in using just the transmit and receive data leads (MMJ 2 & 5 to DB25 pins 2 & 3, and of course ground) to use for example a PC as a terminal hooked to a DEC machine. If your going to hook a DEC machine up to a modem then you are going to need the control lines as well. On the other end, I attempted to use a Compaq portable one time as a terminal and it did not work. I figured the serial port was bad. Later when I tried again, I found that the port was fine, but still would not interface with a DEC machine. I decided the reason had to be due to the voltage levels. A standard serial (if it exists) as defined by RS232C should have a voltage swing from +15 (0) volts to -15 volts (1). Granted you will find it implemented at +/- 12v, +/- 9v, etc. These all work as the spec defines the threshold as 5v, between +5 and -5 is undefined and considered the transition zone. Now look at DEC, which uses DEC-423 which I assume is a derivative of RS423. The voltage swing for 423 is +6 to -6 volts with the threshold being 200 mv. I checked the DEC machine and sure enough it was running at 6v. I concluded the the Compaq was possibly designed with a higher threshold volatge, and was not going to recognize the 6v coming from the DEC machine. > I think that this should be possible since I also happened to find another > MMJ DB25 female connector which has the "funny" DEC offset, but > without the DEC name. In this case, I was also to pry the DB25 off the > housing and found that pin 3 in the MMJ side was left hanging and not > connected to anything. That's OK. Pin 3 & 4 are both ground on the MMJ. I'll bet MMJ-4 is connected to DB25-7, so there is the ground connection. > In addition, on the DB25 side, pin 6 was not > connected to pin 8. That should be OK, 6 - DSR Data Set Ready, 8 - Data Carrier Detect. Here again we are getting into modem control lines and may not be needed depending on what you are trying to connect. > I have not had a chance to test with both the DEC > (H8575-A) and the non-DEC DB25 female connectors with a VT320 > at each end, so I am not sure if the non-DEC version can be used. But > since the non-DEC (i.e. without the DEC label) has the "funny" DEC > offset, I feel I can assume that it will probably work - in point of fact, > I might have used that one when I did the VT320 to VT320 test. > > If my suggestion is possible, then it should be very easy to convert any > DEC BC16E cable into two cables with one end being used at the > VT320 and the other (after being fitted with a standard RJ11 connector) > to be used with a normal RJ11 to DB25 connector. Tongue in cheek. Oh my, he's gonna cut a BC16E cable into two pieces. What's next, testing chain saws on Mac's, or removing spare parts from heavy metal VAXen's with a propane torch. ;) > Just though I would ask for some advice and suggestion. Also, if anyone > has already done this, and it worked, then I would know it is going to be > OK. If there was something I should be aware of and it has already be > figured out, that would be helpful to know. Note that the VT320 terminals > will be used without a modem, so if all DEC parts were used, the BC16E > cable with an H8571-F would first be used to convert to a standard > DB25 male interface. Then a null modem cable would be used to connect > the DB25 male to the standard DB25 male on a DEC computer. The > key point is to attempt to become independent of the DEC "funny" offset > within the first cable connected to the VT320. The annoying part is that > I have a number of RJ11 to DB25 convertors without the "funny" DEC > offset plus a small amount of 6 and 8 wire cable that I can't use since > I first have to overcome the "funny" DEC offset. Jerome, it sounds like a plan. But I have to ask, why the mindset about the "funny" DEC offset? Is my perspective askew? By that I mean am I living near the land of plenty? I have gleened one building after a computer outfit moved out and hauled cables out in multiple 30 gallon garbage bags. Not all were MMJ cables, but got enough to do my thing. OTOH I understand, I have concocted my share of workarounds over the years. Mike

25 years, 8 months

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nice paper on Multics emacs

by mac＠Wireless.Com

http://www.best.com/~thvv/mepap.html As Eric pointed out, it's nice to keep the h/w, but it's even better if you can keep the s/w! (And, no, I don't know where to get a copy of Multics emacs...) -Mike C

25 years, 8 months

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Preserving a Multics System

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Here's an interesting datapoint about the cost of running a preserved/rescued Multics: > "NO UCE" <nouce(a)multics.ruserved.com> wrote in message > news:8s1ltb$sco$1@multics.ruserved.com... > > So how much would it cost to 'mothball' the hardware and store it? > > > > I'd ask how much it would cost to run a minimal system, 1 CPU, RAM, > > disk, etc, but I'm afraid of what the answer might be. > > > > The 1 CPU DPS-8/70M with 4 MW, 1 IMU, 1 18x FNP, 2 FIPS tapes, 3 FIPS D and > 1 FIPS E disk that we ran at CGI/Perigon/ACTC consumed around 1.1 MWhr of > electricity a day running mostly the idle program. Based on current utility > rates in Calgary, that translates to about $2,000 CDN per month. This > included the AC load added to the room. The configuration cited is not the > minimal. This is why emulators are needed for the really old stuff, even if it does still run. regards, -dq

25 years, 8 months

6
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NatSemi 32000

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

I know a guy who worked on designing the Tektronics machine that used the NS32K family.. I've always wanted to ask him about the machine, design process, etc.. I also have the preliminary info on TI's 32000 products, since they second-sourced it.. I have the NS 32000 databook also.. Will J _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.

25 years, 8 months

2
1
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Preserving a Multics System

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > This is why emulators are needed for the really old stuff, even if > > it does still run. > > Yes, but for the emulator to be useful, someone has to *save* > the software to run on it, and the documentation. > > Even though this seems obvious, it's *amazing* how often it > doesn't happen. > > So is anyone archiving the software for this Mulitcs system? An archive of Multics exists at MIT. If my recent personal experiences with 9 track magtape can be considered representative and not anecdotal, then I think the tapes will still be readable even ten years from now. regards, -doug q

25 years, 8 months

2
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Last (or next to last) Multics System to be Decommissioned

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> And someone is going to acquire this hardware for posterity I assume?? Doubtful... this was a military machine, and although it didn't handle classified data, they didn't grant accounts to outsiders, which even the NSA did with the DOCKMASTER system until it was decomissioned in 1998. But maybe if someone with deep enough pockets and good Canadian connections tries, who knows what might be possible... -dq

25 years, 8 months

3
3
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Preserving a Multics System

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Does anyone even know of any good DPS-8 information pages > anywhere on the net? There's a little bit on it at http://www.multicians.org but that's mostly covering the DPS-8/M. Actually, this site, managed by Tom Van Vleck (an original Multician), is a great example of how to organize a site to preserve info about a vintage platform. It's mostly simply text web pages, with links to some that have pictures. But the pages load quickly, and I think you'll be impressed by the volume of information. -doug q

25 years, 8 months

1
0
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OS for AT&T 6300

by tarsi＠binhost.com

Well, an update on my AT&T 6300. First of all, thank you VERY much to everyone who responded with information on this little machine. It's quite fun. The machine (now named "Jon") has a new low-level formatted drive (the debug command was g=c800:5, fyi) and is humming along merrily on MSDOS 6.22. Unfortunately, my backup of the hard drive before format resulted in a bad backup, so I'm working to restore that but doubt I will be able to. On that note, what sort of OS do you recommend I run on it? Right now, I'm running DOS 6.22 and the program Conex which allows me to use it as a terminal for my Linux box via a serial cable. Is there a UNIX-ish type OS I could run? If so, does anyone have a copy to sell me? I thought about looking for an 8-bit ethernet card so I can get it online, but not sure if it is worth it...well, it's always worth it to get it online, but... :) Thanks, again, for all your help. Tarsi 210

25 years, 8 months

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Last (or next to last) Multics System to be Decommissioned

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On October 20, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > And someone is going to acquire this hardware for posterity I assume?? > > Doubtful... this was a military machine, and although it didn't handle > classified data, they didn't grant accounts to outsiders, which even > the NSA did with the DOCKMASTER system until it was decomissioned in > 1998. > > But maybe if someone with deep enough pockets and good Canadian > connections tries, who knows what might be possible... It seems a huge shame to let a machine like this get scrapped. Surely *someone* can save it? -Dave McGuire

25 years, 8 months

1
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MS Laugh-In

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Jerome Fine replies: > > I thought I might as well continue this line of thought - I > DON'T HAVE A > PRINTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Can I mail in the monitor screen? ROFL!

25 years, 8 months

2
1
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Alright you Linux-heads...

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> I've got a couple of 486 boxen (25 mHz, 8-megs of Ram, 1.2 gig > hard drive) sitting around the house. I'd like to make one of them > into a Linux-based firewall for my cable modem. (I also have a copy > of Turbo Linux available for this project) > > Currently I use both a PC and a Mac, and switch between them via > a KVM switch. Both are equipped with Ethernet cards to connect into > the cable modem. I've tried using an Ethernet cable switch to > select either the PC or the Mac, but it didn't quite work the way I > expected it to. As in you have to boot fresh after switching? > At the very minimum, I would like to be able to > * have both the PC and Mac be able to access the internet at the same time > * do the usual firewall stuff (e.g. keep the bad guy out. I currently > use ZoneAlarm on the pc, and it does a decent job) What we use here is Vicom Internet Gateway (now SoftRouter) on a Mac to connect our 40 Windows systems to the Internet. However, since you started this thread with wanting to do it with Linux, you need the IP masquerading stuff for Linux; I never got that far with Linux, so someone else will hopefully chime in here. > I'd also like to go further, and have the Mac and PC read each other's > hard drives (still, while keeping outside users out) Ouch... you didn't mention what runs on the PC... assuming Windows, I don't know of any freeware AppleShare clients for the PC. You can use PC MacLAN, but it's just under $200. Maybe NFS? Regards, -doug q

25 years, 8 months

2
1
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TU56 on PDP8/A (M8315)

by jos.mar＠bluewin.ch

A question to better informed people than me : Will a TD8/E board work correctly on a PDP8/A with a kk8/A (M8315) CPU ? The pdp8/a minprocessor handbook doesn't give any limitations on this, but the pdp8/A operator's handbook states that the TD8/E only works with the 8/E CPU. Does anyone have a definitive answer to this (i.e. has tried this ) Thanks, Jos Dreesen

25 years, 8 months

1
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Drop the Microsoft & OS Discussion!

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

I'm with ya there. For the last few weeks, I've been deleting virtually all the messages from this group. I'm sure I've missed some good stuff but, I'm sick and tired of wading through all the MS and Ebay BS to get the messages of on-topic interest. Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Edwin P. Groot [mailto:epgroot@ucdavis.edu] > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 1:40 PM > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Drop the Microsoft & OS Discussion! > > > I vote to drop-kick this weeks discussion/useless rant > on Windows and > other OS's and other pokes to list members. > Get back to you classic computers, VAXen, boxen, > whatever-you-have-en, > which this list is meant for! > > Anyone with me on this? > Edwin >

25 years, 8 months

2
1
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Last (or next to last) Multics System to be Decommissioned

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Forwarded from alt.os.multics: From: "R. Barry Walker" <rbwalker(a)dgs.drenet.dnd.ca> Subject: Impending Shutdown - DND-H Multics System Date: 09 Oct 2000 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <8rtsc8$b9c$1(a)news.drenet.dnd.ca> Organization: DREnet News Server NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Oct 2000 01:45:44 GMT Newsgroups: alt.os.multics After some 18 years of service, the DND-H Multics system will shut down on or about 1100 Atlantic Standard Time 31 Oct. 2000. All of the unique applications we wrote for it have been moved over to a series of Unix, Linux and even NT servers. It survived the Year 2000 switchover, and now it's time to move on. Sic transit historia multicis... Barry Walker

25 years, 8 months

2
1
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forklift rental in San Jose, CA?

by Innfogra＠aol.com

When you are renting a truck look for a Rail Gate rather than a lift gate. They are bigger and will carry a heavier load. The lift goes up and down on a more horizontal plane. Produce trucks use these because the lift heavy pallets with a power lift jack and they need to carry the weight. Check with the Business truck rental places like Ryder. Look for an independent Truck rental that has heavy trucks. No one will rent one way. If it is a long haul check with a computer moving company or freight forwarder to ship the gear. If you buy space by the square yard or partial truck load rather than by weight it is cheaper. You will need a forklift or loading dock to load these trailers. If you are picking something up in an industrial park or area there are usually lots of Forklifts in the area. Talking to a neighboring business will usually get you a lift truck and an operator for a reasonable price. Be ready for them to move, they don't like waiting. Good luck. What are you picking up? Paxton

25 years, 8 months

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Idiotic people who do not know the value of classic equipment

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

I'd say it'd be worth it. -Dave McGuire On October 20, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > > The worst thing about this is that I cant even dumpster dive as they do > a lot of different government contracts. The whole area is pretty much > off limits. If I do dumpster dive, I wouldnt be suprised if a bunch of > FBI agents take me away for questioning... > > > > I'm amazed at what perfectly good stuff management sees fit to toss. When > > my company closed the office I worked out of at my last job, my former > > boss had the minions throw out all kinds of useful and valuable stuff in > > my absence. I found out about it and ended up spending the evening inside > > a grimy dumpster retrieving several thousand dollars of useful equipment. > > > > A lot of it has since served me very well :) > > > > Sorry about your story, Ram. That bites. > > > >

25 years, 8 months

2
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Looking for: Extended Mass Storage ROM for HP 87

by ss＠allegro.com

Hi, The recent discussions of the HP 8x machines reminded me: I'm looking for an Extended Mass Storage ROM for an HP 87 (and for an HP 85, for that matter). The part number is: HP 00087-15013 Extended Mass Storage ROM for HP-86/87 HP 00085-15013 Extended Mass Storage ROM for HP-83/85 I could probably find some 8x stuff to trade for one. thanks, Stan Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler

25 years, 8 months

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Idiotic people who do not know the value of classic equipment

by rmeenaks＠olf.com

Hi, A friend of mine works for a robotics engineering firm who were heavy users of transputers. Well, the moved away from transputers a while back and are using PCs to do all their vision calculations, etc. I asked him to hold on to all of the unwanted transputer equipment (T801 trams with 4Megs of memory, B008s, PowerPC Trams, etc, etc) and he agreed to it. Well, when he was on vacation, the company decided to clean up their old equipment and throw away all of their so-called junk. They threw away graphics board that were brand-new still in the box, tons of UPSs still new, i860 processors, C004s, trams, tram boards, etc, etc. All really good and quite expensive stuff. He promised me he will look for other transputer stuff that may be lying around after the cleanup, but this really really BITES! Ram

25 years, 8 months

3
4
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Recovering Sysadmin

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> There's no such thing as a recovering sysadmin. > It's not like alcoholism... > It's a fatal disorder... > > One more late night I'm coming home and my wife's gonna kill me... Closest comparison I can make is that the dog spends a _long_ time sniffing me each night to see who I am... -dq

25 years, 8 months

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forklift rental in San Jose, CA?

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

Moving large cabinets and racks can be a pain. One of my friends had RP04's moved disguised in boxes as a washer and dryer. I think we all need to rephrase the problem of moving a computer from lift trucks, hydraulic lift gates, and cranes to many bodies and a universal solvent, BEER. I once saw several doctors, lawyers, teachers, engineers move a large power boat that was upside down in a yard back into the lake for free beer. Of course I moved an entire 20 X 24 roofed boat dock by taking it into small pieces, carrying it down the hill and assembling it. I bet if you placed a case of beer on top of the computer you could find somebody to move the whole thing. Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

25 years, 8 months

1
0
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MS Laugh-In

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

>this rant just came to me: > > "Windows Me" > Rant #n+1 Win98 was supposed to be the end of the line with W2000 being the replacer... then it was Win98se now win98me (yes it's w98!). I take it the market doesn't yet trust W2000 and SP3 will be a while yet. Allison

25 years, 8 months

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Enough already! (was: Re: MS Laugh-In)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > On Thu, 19 Oct 2000, Ernest wrote: > > > > > I humbly apologize for so deeply, deeply hurting you, Sellam, with my > > > > Thanks. Now apologize for annoying me. > > > > > Life goes on, Sellam, and someday you'll look back at this and think, > > > "Gosh, maybe I over reacted just a little bit," and that's OK. We all > > > grow up at our own pace. > > > > Mmmmm, probably not. > > > > Sellam, why do I have the strongest feeling that you're either a sysadmin > or a recovering sysadmin? *grin* Hey! Some of us resemble that remark... ;-) -dq

25 years, 8 months

2
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Varian 620/L-100 Maintenance Manual for sale

by jdarren＠ala.net

original vendor (1973) issue in near-unused condition. $40 plus preferred shipping. Chapters ---------- 1. Introduction 1-1. specifications 1-2. technical manuals 2. Installation 2-1. system layout and planning 2-2. physical description 2-3. system interconnection 2-4. system interrupt priority 3. Operation 3-1. control panel operation 3-2. manual operations 3-3. preliminary operating procedures 4. CPU 4-1. functional description 4-2. theory of operation 4-3. maintenance 5.Memory 5-1. functional description 5-2. theory of operation 5-3. maintenance 6. DMA Interrupts 6-1. functional description 6-2. interface data 6-3. theory of operation 6-4. maintenance 7. Power Supply 7-1. theory of operation 7-2. maintenance 8. Mnemonics 9. Waveforms 10. Multiply/Divide and Extended Addressing 10-1. introduction 10-2. operation 10-3. theory of operation 10-4. maintenance plus 8 appendices

25 years, 8 months

1
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Honeywell and other books for sale

by jdarren＠ala.net

all original vendor manuals in good shape. $12 each, plus shipping. 1. Honeywell Series 16 Software - Program Interrupt Structure, 06/1971 2. Honeywell System 700 Software - Verification Service Library, 03/1972 3. Honeywell Series 16 Software - O16-XREF, SSUP, And MAC Source Language Processors 4. Honeywell Wirelist - 516 Memory, 1974 5. Honeywell Wirelist - Series 16 IOBCU, 1974 6. Honeywell Series 16 Hardware Documentation - DDP-516 Memory Expansion, Models 516-05/06, Instruction Manual, 1973 7. Honeywell Wirelist - 516-20 Direct Multplex Control, 1974 8. Honeywell Wirelist - X5B Mainframe, 1974 9. Honeywell Series 200 214-1/214-2 Card Reader/Punch Theory of Operation Manual, 1968 10. Teletype Model 35 ASR Technical Manual, 1971

25 years, 8 months

1
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Who remembers CDC Plato?...run it again on a cyber at home... could it be done?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> The OS that ran on the system was called KRONOS. It was a multi-user > multi-executive OS that did both interactive and batch processing. There > were a number of RJE stations around the campus that had punch card > readers and printers that users could submit their F77 (Fortran 77) > and PASCAL jobs to remotely. How pleasant to find someone else who worked at a Kronos site instead of the more usual SCOPE sites. We had Kronos at IU on a CDC 6600/Cyber 174 Multi-Mainframe system (using some code >from Cambridge University and some Z-80 based disk controllers designed by a guy named Steel at Purdue). > > What are my chances of fiding one? > > Next to nil, I would guess. They were loaded with precious metals (gold!) > and lots of good scrap metal too. The scrappers loved 'em. There are still some 64-bit era Cybers in service; Syntegra (the remnants of CDC) still support NOS (nee Kronos), NOS/BE (nee SCOPE), and NOS/VE (the 64-bit OS). -dq

25 years, 8 months

2
1
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Operating systems / Best in "isolation"

by tarsi＠binhost.com

At 08:59 AM 10/20/00 -0500, you wrote: >I don't know how to state this, so I will blunder in -- > >I have been trying to follow this wide-ranging discussions >about the woes of Microsoft products, of Linux, and so on. > >This may sound anti-Internet, but I see two themes in the >back of these discussions -- > >1. The need to be isolated > >2. consumerism (or vender vs. user choice) > >For the first, with computers so widespread and the ease >to communicate between users so prevalent these days, maybe >we need the exact opposite -- for each of us to be isolated >from one another and not see the other's toys. As I think >Ernest recently said, he was happy with his first Commodore 64 >until someone told him otherwise. If we would instead just >cherish what we have, and <grin> otherwise sit in Dilbert-like >mini-cubicles without the ability to see your neighbor, >then we wouldn't know what we are missing... > >(For you software developers and hardware techs of yore -- >did you complain about the software and hardware 20 years >ago in the same fashion as I hear complaining today? I suspect >so, it is just that we didn't hear it so often as we were >isolated. But then again I can dream that it was better then...) > >For the second, I would like to think that our need to upgrade >should be driven by *our* needs to fix something. I dislike it >when the direction comes from the other end -- that is from the >vender or developer telling me I must upgrade and/or replace something. >When the needs are not truly user driven, then we are in a >marketing situation only, and you know the group of people >that is intended to benefit from that...it doesn't include me. > >I am not exactly thrilled with Microsoft products, and would >rather not buy them. But then again BSD won't serve my family's >needs. Just what is available as a viable alternative for the >"average Joe"? Not much from what I can see. So maybe we shouldn't >be using computers -- they aren't essential, after all <grin> -- >societies flourished for many centuries before the present (and >there is no promise that this society won't "die" just like others >in the past have). > >Just pondering on a Friday -- Luddism and communism in the >morning. Grins.. >Have a good weekend everyone and simmer down. > >Cheers/TTFN, >Kevin Anderson, Bismarck, North Dakota (where I can see the frontier, >and there are unfortunately no PDP 8s or 11s in sight....) >home: K9IUA(a)juno.com >alt: kla(a)helios.augustana.edu

25 years, 8 months

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Operating systems / Best in "isolation"

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> For the first, with computers so widespread and the ease > to communicate between users so prevalent these days, maybe > we need the exact opposite -- for each of us to be isolated > from one another and not see the other's toys. As I think > Ernest recently said, he was happy with his first Commodore 64 > until someone told him otherwise. If we would instead just > cherish what we have, and <grin> otherwise sit in Dilbert-like > mini-cubicles without the ability to see your neighbor, > then we wouldn't know what we are missing... I don't think any of us really want to be isolated, we just don't want to suffer from undesirable connectivity. > (For you software developers and hardware techs of yore -- > did you complain about the software and hardware 20 years > ago in the same fashion as I hear complaining today? I suspect > so, it is just that we didn't hear it so often as we were > isolated. But then again I can dream that it was better then...) 20 years ago, I was a systems programmer on a pair of Prime minis. As with most Prime sites in those days, we had the source code to every release of Primos (the OS) that came out, and we had things we thought we could improve on, and did. Since we could just get in there and change it, we didn't think to complain. That included having the source code to the compilers (except now that I think of it, the COBOL compiler), so we could at least find out *why* what we were trying to do didn't work. Prior to that, while in college, I had access to the source code for the CDC Kronos OS, and most of its compilers. I didn't have similar access on the DEC-10 or the IBM 370/158 AP, but on the DEC-10, we had RWATCH in source code form, which let us do almost anything the system operator could do. > For the second, I would like to think that our need to upgrade > should be driven by *our* needs to fix something. I dislike it > when the direction comes from the other end -- that is from the > vender or developer telling me I must upgrade and/or replace > something. Hey, that's called supply-side economics, supposedly a Good Thing. ;-) -dq

25 years, 8 months

1
0
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Operating systems / Best in "isolation"

by kla＠helios.augustana.edu

I don't know how to state this, so I will blunder in -- I have been trying to follow this wide-ranging discussions about the woes of Microsoft products, of Linux, and so on. This may sound anti-Internet, but I see two themes in the back of these discussions -- 1. The need to be isolated 2. consumerism (or vender vs. user choice) For the first, with computers so widespread and the ease to communicate between users so prevalent these days, maybe we need the exact opposite -- for each of us to be isolated >from one another and not see the other's toys. As I think Ernest recently said, he was happy with his first Commodore 64 until someone told him otherwise. If we would instead just cherish what we have, and <grin> otherwise sit in Dilbert-like mini-cubicles without the ability to see your neighbor, then we wouldn't know what we are missing... (For you software developers and hardware techs of yore -- did you complain about the software and hardware 20 years ago in the same fashion as I hear complaining today? I suspect so, it is just that we didn't hear it so often as we were isolated. But then again I can dream that it was better then...) For the second, I would like to think that our need to upgrade should be driven by *our* needs to fix something. I dislike it when the direction comes from the other end -- that is from the vender or developer telling me I must upgrade and/or replace something. When the needs are not truly user driven, then we are in a marketing situation only, and you know the group of people that is intended to benefit from that...it doesn't include me. I am not exactly thrilled with Microsoft products, and would rather not buy them. But then again BSD won't serve my family's needs. Just what is available as a viable alternative for the "average Joe"? Not much from what I can see. So maybe we shouldn't be using computers -- they aren't essential, after all <grin> -- societies flourished for many centuries before the present (and there is no promise that this society won't "die" just like others in the past have). Just pondering on a Friday -- Luddism and communism in the morning. Grins.. Have a good weekend everyone and simmer down. Cheers/TTFN, Kevin Anderson, Bismarck, North Dakota (where I can see the frontier, and there are unfortunately no PDP 8s or 11s in sight....) home: K9IUA(a)juno.com alt: kla(a)helios.augustana.edu

25 years, 8 months

2
1
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Mac II question

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> At 05:23 PM 10/19/00 -0400, you wrote: > > > >> There is also one 72 pin SIMM socket in the mainboard next to the > >> cache slot (which is where the accelerator goes). I > wonder what it is > >> for... > > > >It was meant to be used for ROM upgrades, but Apple never issued any. > > > >-dq > > Oh, so that was it. Thanks for the info! > > One thing that I am wondering is how you expanded the memory beyond > 32 MB. Did Apple sell >4MB 30pin SIMMS? If there are any, they must > be incredibly rare... I've never even _heard_ of them. The Mac IIci was designed to use either parity or non-parity simms... the need for parity simms was for A/UX, Apple's version of Unix. So any set of 4 16MB 30-pin SIMMs from a PC will work just fine. There may be a jumper on the MB for this- can't recall. regards, -dq

25 years, 8 months

1
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Who remembers CDC Plato?...run it again on a cyber at home... could it be done?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Now I never the saw the hardware running Plato. I only know > that it used a CDC cyber. So I am thinking... > > What Cyber ran plato? Well, it would run on anything from a CDC 6600 up to (I think) the Cyber 850. However, Northwestern University created a Plato clone, also using the Tutor language, that could handle more terminal types than the classic Halloween terminal. I used to have the source code (in COMPASS) for MultiTutor... hopefully, the ex-so didn't trash it in '81 when she trashed a bunch of my stuff; it may be in the possession of a comrade. > How big were they?(I heard of huge! Did not find any pics on the > internet of one...) Look for CDC / Control Data instead... here's a link to a small pic of a Cyber 73: http://members.iglou.com/dougq/cyber73.gif > What are my chances of fiding one? CDC 6600 Serial Number 1, formerly owned by the Lawrence Livermore Labs, is now at the Computer Museum of History (or is that Computer History Musem) at Moffet Field in Kalifornia. Syntegra (the remnants of CDC) are still supporting NOS, NOS/BE, and NOS/VE, so I'm sure they've got one of the later Cybers running. > And the plato software? (slim I guess...) Among other platforms, Plato was ported to the TI99/A. > If I remember well, there was a emulator for the IBMPC to run a plato > terminal....no touch screen but still...anybody remember this?...that > could save me from having to look for an old "plasma" terminal like they > called them back then... Well, I want one of the Halloween terminals (called that because the plasma display was orange on black) anyway, just to have. There have been a few incomplete attempts at starting an emulator for the CDC/Cyber machines... so far, they implement only the 60-bit modes of the early machines and not the later 64-bit mode needed to run NOS/VE. But someone needs to bring these disparate efforts together. This one will be *much* easier to do than the Multics emulator we often talk about on alt.multics.org. You might also post question in the USENET newsgroup comp.sys.cdc; it hasn't seen much activity lately, so go light a fire! regards, -dq

25 years, 8 months

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Enough already! (was: Re: MS Laugh-In)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> I had the same problem on my servers, killed the audio in the bios > and it persisted. The 4mb Trident AGP video driver was bad news. I used to like Trident, but I consider them foul now, and have exorcised them from almost every machine that had them. > The audio and video drivers in NT4 live in ring zero (low protection) > to make the gamers happy. NT3.51 didn't do this and was far less > prone. Better video and audio drivers often solve the problem. MS has implemented something they call the MHQL for testing drivers (if submitted) for Windows 2000; this contributes greatly to its stability. I haven't seen a BSOD yet, although I had to remove NAI VirusScan, as it caused spontaneous reboots upon logon. > My solution is keep the games, audio and high end video off the > NT box I want it robust. Put those things on a W9x crate and > play there. Again, you really ought to try getting a copy of Win2k, at least for your workstation, so you can evaluate it. I think you'll be surprised and pleased. -dq

25 years, 8 months

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test-drb