- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

DEC VT-180 "Robin" system / finding a DEC VT-100

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

-----Original Message----- From: Claude <claudew(a)sprint.ca> >I have been offered the components for a Dec "Robin" system. Person says >he has everything except the VT-100... A DEC VT180 (Aka Robin) without VT100 is just a disk box, a VT180 board and the cables and connectors to insert it in vt100. What it is is a Z80 /64k board with 4 serial ports and FDC. You basic CP/M engine. What it needs to work, power, interface to terminal, reset from vt100. The VT100 supplies power, reset and the interface between the two. That board can be made to run standalone with any standard DEC tube or similar. As CP/M systems go it was a decent one. It's weaknesses were, only single sided drives and bios was for DD 40 tracks (172k per drive). The upside was it was a soild machine and fast {for the time} at 4mhz. >Anybody wanna speculate what are my chances of finding a clean no screen >burn VT100 terminal/keyboard these days...and in Canada...??? Good possibility. Allison

25 years, 6 months

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DEC VT-180 "Robin" system / finding a DEC VT-100

by claudew＠sprint.ca

Hi I have been offered the components for a Dec "Robin" system. Person says he has everything except the VT-100... Anybody wanna speculate what are my chances of finding a clean no screen burn VT100 terminal/keyboard these days...and in Canada...??? Thanks Claude

25 years, 6 months

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Slashdot story-Atari 800XL used in Czech hospital

by passerm＠umkc.edu

The article and discussion at this URL: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/12/17/148227&mode=nested discuss a cassette-based Atari 800 in a medical application in the Czech Republic. Some of the pictures are mirrored at these URLs: http://www.ecf.utoronto.ca/~chengj/temp/hosp01.jpg http://www.ecf.utoronto.ca/~chengj/temp/hosp03.jpg http://www.ecf.utoronto.ca/~chengj/temp/hosp04.jpg http://www.ecf.utoronto.ca/~chengj/temp/hosp06.jpg http://www.ecf.utoronto.ca/~chengj/temp/hosp10.jpg http://www.ecf.utoronto.ca/~chengj/temp/hosp11.jpg --Mike

25 years, 6 months

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The debate on what per say is a mini...

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

Personally, I consider all VAXen minicomputers, except for the 9000's, which I definetly agree are mainframes (use MCM technology, can be serviced without bringing down the whole system, etc.). But then again, I'd call just about any dedicated UNIX box (aka "workstation") a minicomputer too... I personally make the distinctions based not so much on physical size, but on the architecture, software, etc. For example, the smallest VAX is still a minicomputer to me because it uses a bus used only by DEC, a DEC processor, and runs a DEC-created operating system (I'm only talking about the OS that it was originally meant to run, please don't think I'm trying to leave out UNIX, BSD, or Idris, to name a few). Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

25 years, 6 months

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Unix and 2038

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

UNIX dates and 2038. I'm willing to bet that there will be people looking at atmospheric, rainfall, snow cover, and other long term datasets that were created long ago :), 40 years, and some of there data formats are probably platform dependent. There are people still running IBM emulators that run old emulator code that runs old code that probably controls missiles and planes. The problem is not going away, everybody is hoping not to spend money for data their company will probably loose or discard before 2038. It all comes down to a question of self interest. Most company managers plan not to be in business in 20 years and their compensation is tied to this quarter. 1. If I were an astute computer manager I would convince my company that it was actually intelligent to outsource all my computing and problems and then quit before the ramifications are known. 2. I would then go to work for somebody else and convince them to insource the computing because of security risks associated by outsourcing. 3. I would then quit and go to work as a consultant and lecturer on the perils and pitfalls of computing. 4. I would then write a book on the theoretically best system, which is of course doesn't exist. 5. Finally I would write a book on my life in the golden age of computing. I know that I will have computers in 2038 that I have now. Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

25 years, 6 months

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The debate on what per say is a mini...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 16, 16:50, Mike Kenzie wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pete Turnbull" <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> > To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> > Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 8:27 PM > Subject: Re: The debate on what per say is a mini... > > > In the end, we found it better to switch one off. > > Moral: there is such a thing as overkill, and such a thing as > > over-engineering. > The second machine when it detected trouble with the primary > would power off the first machine (Shoot The Other Node In > The Head). It was quit impressive but had me thinking of > VMS and MVS and wishing everyone would talk to each other > instead of reinventing the wheel. Yes, I must admit when we sat down to discuss the supposedly-failsafe servers at a meeting, I couldn't help thinking "VAX" and "cluster". -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 6 months

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Online reference to 11/34 console?

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Is there an online reference anywhere that describes how to use the 11/34 console? (either the octal keypad console or the monitor?) --Chuck

25 years, 6 months

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The debate on what per say is a mini...

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

Minicomputers = a class of computers now referred to as "midrange", except that people tend to class some random Intel-based garbage in there sometimes _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

25 years, 6 months

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Kaypro-4 differences

by rdd＠smart.net

Greetings, Today I collected a Kaypro-4 that I notice is different from my present Kaypro-4. If it makes any difference, there's a rounf "84" sticker following Kaypro-4... is this a Kaypro-4 "84", whatever that is? In addition to two serial, and one parallel, ports, has a reset button and a fan in the back panel. Haven't time to open it up and look inside yet, but I wonder what other differences I'll discover - >from what I could quickly tell with a flashlight, it didn't appear too unusual. Alas, it didn't come with floppies. Other finds: an Apple Macintosn LC with an RGB monitor and an IBM PC Aptiva model S15 (I know, this doesn't qualify as a classic... I think it was made in 1994), which I bought primarily since the price was lower than the value of the Soundblaster-16 board, WD Caviar 2700 hard drive and 4x CD-ROM. Didn't determine the CPU in it yet, as the silicone between the IC and heat-sink was covering it up. -- Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to rdd(a)perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a horse into something like http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD

25 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/34 questions

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

I got another PDP-11/34 today, this one is a bit more modern but with less stuff in it. It has an RL11 interface connected to an RL02 drive. It has the newer switching PSU (vs the original boat anchor PSU) and I powered it up with some SLU's installed for load. It came up fine and all the voltages are spot on. I put all the cards back in and confirmed I could start and stop the CPU >from the control panel. However I don't know enough about operating the 11/34's operator panel to be able to input a program. CNTRL/BOOT starts the bootstrap. I opened up the RL02 drive and it has a pack marked "RSX-11M 3.2SYS" in it. I vacuumed out all the dust I could, checked around and it seems fine. So I buttoned it back up and tried to load the pack. It powers on (the fan blows) but popping the LOAD switch has no effect. No lights (not even fault) light up and the drive doesn't seem to spin at all. (yes it is terminated) So my first question is, what to check on the RL02 to see why it may not be spinning up? The console SLU has a male DB25 on it. Since I didn't have a compatible terminal where it was I don't know yet what the output, if any is, to the serial line. Suggestions? Steps for entering a simple program into the programmers console? --Chuck

25 years, 6 months

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G4IDE and ][GS disks

by agraham＠ccat.co.uk

> Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 20:20:52 +0000 (GMT) > From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: Apricot & G4IDE > > The other possibility is that this is some kind of timing card (the > counters would give that impression) and that the audio > signal from the > radio receiver is fed into the Cassette Input of the ZX81. > You may have > the complete unit apart from the software. > > Have you considered looking him up in the callbook (assuming > he's in it) > and writing to him to ask what the unit is? I did a google search for him and found him in Boston, Lincs. It IS a timing card but it's for the Spectrum, not ZX81, despite the edge connector. The software was called RTTY and he can't remember that much about it since it was so long ago, but it received weather FAX data by radio and RTTY graphed it up on a Speccy......cool :) As an aside I've just won an Apple 5 1/4 drive (still in its plastic bag :) that will go nicely on my Woz GS. The problem I now have is getting the disk images off one of my Macs and onto a 5 1/4" disk! Any clues? I don't yet have a suitable drive on the PC but getting one won't be too difficult....... adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum

25 years, 6 months

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Fortune Systems / freezer trick for hard drives

by kapteynr＠cboe.com

Seriously, the freezer trick might be worth trying :-) The spindle bearings on my drive make weird noises that change pitch as the drive heats up. After a while, it gets really loud and the drive stops working. I think when the drive is cold, the bearings tighten a little -- due to themal contraction. If the head actually crashed, I don't think there is any hope, however. I have a little thermoelectric cooler/fan for a CPU chip. I have thought about sticking it to the drive with some heat-sink compound. Continuing on the other topic -- Data interchange with my Fortune is a pain because the 5-1/4 floppies have their own unique format which nothing else will read. Last time I looked at my floppies, it looked like they had a very thin layer of mold growing on them. (I think I had them in a damp place for a while) Anyone have experience reading moldy floppies ? -Rob -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail [SMTP:foo@siconic.com] Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 1:43 PM To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: Anyone else with an interest in Fortune Systems ? On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Rob Kapteyn wrote: > My Fortune is complete and basically works, except that it has a > really flaky hard drive. (It makes lots of noise and runs about 15 > minutes before warms up and quits working). Sounds like you need to stick it in the freezer :) Try adding some more fans to the box to help keep the drive cool. It'll probably run stably for great lengths of time (until it just up and crashes). I have a Fortune 32:16 as well. The only one I've ever seen. I guess that makes it uncommon too, by my own standards :) The floppy mechanism on mine needs work. I have a Fortune terminal but I don't think it's the special kind that was mentioned was required to interface with it. I don't have a keyboard either. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org

25 years, 6 months

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VCF East Survey

by LFessen106＠aol.com

<<Sellam has a very good idea! I know that there are several members on the list in the Central NJ area. Anyone care for an impromtu meeting after the Holidays? We might want to take this off list.>> Eastern PA here.. May want to come out myself! -Linc Fessenden

25 years, 6 months

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The debate on what per say is a mini...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 15, 11:51, Sellam Ismail wrote: > You can also get fairly robust PCs, with dual hot-swap power supplies, > dual (or more) CPUs, mirrored hard drives (or RAID), error-correcting > RAM, etc. Indeed. I can tell you a story about that... A few years ago, our Department tendered for a Novell server, to act as file and mail server for our student network. The tender was won by A Well-Known PC Company with 4 letters in their name (how appropriate, as it turned out) who supplied the hardware and on-site maintenance. Well, the on-site maintenance came in the form of trained monkeys who were moderately capabable of, say, swapping a disk drive, and not very good at solving problems when the system went wrong -- as it did, rather frequently. So frequently, in fact, that for a while the Department insisted a rota for support staff "on call", something which as far as I know, has never been done before. After many "discussions" with the trained monkeys and their management, who insisted that our experienced and qualified staff must not taper with "their" hardware, we stopped calling them, and did some tests. Basically, the power supply couldn't cope with the sum of the disks and RAM. To solve the problem properly (after adding a second PSU and moving all the disks to separate housings) it was decided that we'd buy a replacement system, from another Computer Company of high repute (this one with six letters in its name). The new, overkill, spec was for dual-processor, two banks of ECC RAM, triple redundant hot-swappable power supplies, hot-swappable RAID disks, two network interfaces, and a UPS. And just for good measure, we wanted a pair of these, linked directly by a crossover cable on the second network interfaces, and running some smart software that allowed one to mirror the other. In theory, if the "live" server failed, the other would adopt its IP address and take over. In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are different. In practice, our network turns out not to like duplicate IP addresses, that is, two devices with different MAC addresses but using the same IP address -- and the second machine was not always perfectly silent. In practice, the backup server was always a bit too enthusiastic. The live server would see a glitch on the RAID disks and report it, and the backup would try to take over. But the live one wouldn't let go, and they'd fight. Almost daily, partly because the RAID system was perfectly capable of correcting errors much of time, but its controller was perfectly capable of generating them as well. In the end, we found it better to switch one off. The live one fails only occasionally, usually when doing an overnight backup. And we have a heavy box to prop open the machine room door. Or run VMware from time to time. Moral: there is such a thing as overkill, and such a thing as over-engineering. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 6 months

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The debate on what per say is a mini...

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

I just spec'd a new fileserver for our office: Dell PowerEdge 2400 Dual hot-swap power supplies 6-bay hot-swappable drives RAID 1 & 5 512MB ECC SDRAM My boss will sh*t when he finds out we're buying a mainframe... :-) -dq > ---------- > From: Sellam Ismail > Reply To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 2:51 PM > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: The debate on what per say is a mini... > > On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Jim Strickland wrote: > > > in the world for modern mainframes - IBM still makes them - because > > some jobs require more computing horsepower and reliability than > > modern pcs can deliver, and hooking one clydsdale to a big job instead > > of 400 squirrels is alot easier and cost effective to manage. > > I think it would be much more entertaining to watch 400 squirrels. Put my > vote in for the squirrels :) > > > And as for reliability, let me draw my line in the sand and say that I > > think using PCs for mission critical servers is not a good idea. > > Even if you put a decent OS on them - Linux, Solaris, FreeBSD, etc, > > they're not designed or supported the way a real mini or mainframe is. > > 'course the flip side is you can keep another machine around for a > > spare for a reasonable cost... > > You can also get fairly robust PCs, with dual hot-swap power supplies, > dual (or more) CPUs, mirrored hard drives (or RAID), error-correcting > RAM, etc. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org >

25 years, 6 months

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Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker enough...

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

When I was a grad student at Caltech I heard some professors offering some similar worries as much as 10 years ago.... See the full article at http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/stories/news/0,4164,2659964,00.html An excerpt: And then, someone shouted, "Let's put a computer together with all this stuff!" But could they? Could a handful of engineering majors, circa 2000, actually make a computer out of assorted parts? It's a question that has professors tossing and turning at night. It also has many of them rethinking basic college curriculum, trying to prepare a new breed of students for a new economy screaming for high-tech talent. Used to be, engineering majors would come to college fresh from childhoods of tinkering with car engines and taking apart and putting together radios. No more. "Students have never taken a toaster oven apart, certainly never built a radio," said Lynn Abbott, associate professor of computer and electrical engineering at Virginia Tech. "They've never changed the oil in the car, never seem to have gotten their hands dirty with how things work. That has had an impact on how we have to teach the courses." Tim. (who was weaned on big bags of parts from Poly Paks, anxiously ordered from ads in the back of _Radio-Electronics_...)

25 years, 6 months

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Anyone else with an interest in Fortune Systems ?

by kapteynr＠cboe.com

David: I am not sure that you saw my earlier response, which I only sent to the mailing list. My Fortune is complete and basically works, except that it has a really flaky hard drive. (It makes lots of noise and runs about 15 minutes before warms up and quits working). I would be very interested your parts machine, if it had a compatible harddrive and especially if it had an ethernet card. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: Rob Kapteyn [SMTP:kapteynr@cboe.com] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 7:24 PM To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: Anyone else with an interest in Fortune Systems ? Hi: I retired mine when the Miniscribe 10MB hard drive gave too many errors to be useful. But otherwise, I have everything complete with manuals and disks. The only "extras" I ever got were some extra Unix utilities and a Fortran compiler. The "special terminal" is actually just a low-resolution monochrome monitor connected with an RJ-45 type connector. (Character based, no graphics) The keyboard plugs into a similar connector on the front. Later models had a keyswitch, mine does not. Fortune made very nice stuff at an acceptable price for their day, but they crippled everything by making it non-standard to try to control their market. If you wanted a cheap computer to do Fortran programming, like I did, the only competition was the original IBM PC, which was brand new back then. The fact that the Fortune ran Unix made me choose the Fortune. I have no time for my collection either, but with an economic recession on the way, I might soon find myself with lots of spare time :-) In your "parts" machine, you wouldn't happen to have an ethernet card, would you ? I know that they sold them, but they were too expensive for me back then. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: David Williams [SMTP:dlw@trailingedge.com] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 4:55 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Anyone else with an interest in Fortune Systems ? Hi, I've always been interested in them. I was hired back in the early 80s to pick a multi-user system for a business and that was one of the boxs we looked at. I have 2 of them and a third in parts along with some doc but don't have the special terminal to work with it. Thus I have never been able to bring them up. They seem to need some special key when trying to access these and I have no idea what sequence it sends so I could mimic it on another terminal. One day I plan on scanning the doc but haven't had the time. But since I've dropped one side job recently maybe now I'll have more time for my collection. David ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat You can learn to like the life you live or live the life you like. dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

25 years, 6 months

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GS disks an' that.

by agraham＠ccat.co.uk

> -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp-digest(a)classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org] > Sent: 14 December 2000 02:08 > To: classiccmp-digest(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #455 > > > > classiccmp-digest Wednesday, December 13 2000 Volume > 01 : Number 455 > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 17:41:23 -0700 > Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 12:13:31 -0800 > From: "Henry Broekhuyse" <broekh(a)interchange.ubc.ca> > Subject: RE: G4IDE and ][GS disks (slightly off topic) > > If you don't have one already, get a 3.5" floppy drive for > your GS (even on > ebay these rarely cost more than $10). A Mac is able to read and write > ProDOS formatted 3.5" floppies, making this a convenient means of > transferring files. I'd kind of hoped the 800k external Mac drive could do that but it won't. > controller. If you must use a PC, the "easiest to implement" > method of file > transfer with an Apple II series computer is via a "null modem" serial > connection. Dammit :) I'd kind of hoped there was some Apple ][ flavour of a program like TransMac - read/write Mac disks on a PC. To get a null modem connection going though I need some sort of operating environment on the GS. Varying experiments with keypresses at powerup have got me into the control panel but that's about it. Is it possible to boot to BASIC? It must be since the ROM has Micro$oft written on it :) > Date: 14 Dec 00 00:26:28 +0100 > From: "Iggy Drougge" <optimus(a)canit.se> > Subject: RE: First personal computer nostalgia > > I'm sorry, but I feel it's nitpicking time... > I've never heard of an Atari 1050ST before, nor of a 1 MB > hard drive fitted to > an ST. OTOH, there is the Atari 1040ST, which had 1 MB of RAM. And you *could* get HDs for them too; can't remember their product designation OTTOMH but a swift look at the Atari Historical Society should tell you. Maybe it was a Falcon! > Date: 14 Dec 00 01:26:27 +0100 > From: "Iggy Drougge" <optimus(a)canit.se> > Subject: Re: amiga 500 > http://www.hardwarebook.net/ (everyone should have it > bookmarked) has got the > pinouts. Getting the D23 might be problematic, but I know > several sources > around here. > You'll get just about every 15KHz monitor to work, both > analogue and digital. > Possible models: Commodore 1081, 1084, 1085, 1940, 1942; Nec > Multisync II, 3D. I've got a spare Amiga -> CVBS cable if needs be...... adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum

25 years, 6 months

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PDP-11/34 questions

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 15, 19:31, Chuck McManis wrote: > I opened up the RL02 drive and it has a pack marked "RSX-11M 3.2SYS" in it. > I vacuumed out all the dust I could, checked around and it seems fine. So I > buttoned it back up and tried to load the pack. It powers on (the fan > blows) but popping the LOAD switch has no effect. No lights (not even > fault) light up and the drive doesn't seem to spin at all. (yes it is > terminated) > > So my first question is, what to check on the RL02 to see why it may not be > spinning up? You did remember to put the pack cover back in the drive, yes? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York

25 years, 6 months

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Z80 Datasheets

by r_beaudry＠hotmail.com

Hello all, With the recent discussion on Z80 datasheets, I thought I'd chime in... There's a site, www.freetradezone.com, that has a 12,000,000 component database, and has datasheets for many of them. The site is a free registration, but it does take forever for them to mail you a password. Please note that I have no stake in this site... I snagged the complete Z80 datasheet set. If anyone has a spot that can handle the bandwidth on downloads, I'll gladly send them along. They are all in .PDF format... Also, If anyone is looking for a datasheet on some odd part that hasn't been made in 20 yrs., send me an email... I can't guarantee instant (or even slow :-) ) response, but I will look it up, and fire off the datasheet if it's not too big... Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

25 years, 6 months

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A couple of quick SGI Personal Iris/Power Series questions...

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

OK, having today found a Power Series 4D/210VGX in a twin tower enclosure that I plan on buying, (not sure how much to offer though, but hey), I got motivated to mess with my dear old doorstop, err I mean Personal Iris 4D/35... Except I discovered that it's a 4D/25, and that therefore it was dumb of me to just assume the 2 PI's that were at the place I got it were the same... I chose the one I have because it had a nicer case, and I stole the little top door from the other one because the one I got was missing it.. and guess what, the door says "Personal Iris 4D/35".. so here's the second question.. does anyone have a 4D/25 door they'd part with? (Or for that matter skins for an Origin 200? but thats OT).. Now on to the next question.. I also accquired a 950-0801 keyboard and before risking the poor little PI I want to be sure this is the correct keyboard... Finally, does anyone have a copy of IRIX 5.3 they'd part with/copy, preferrably on QIC tapes? Oh yeah, if anyone has any PI manuals or manuals for that Power Series, I could use those too.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

25 years, 6 months

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storage media

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 06:28 PM 12/15/00 +0000, Miller Scott Contr 30CS/FTI wrote: >Speaking of VICE, in a fit of boredom I set up an AlphaStation with VNC to >launch remote C-64 emulation sessions, sort of a C-64 ASP. You just fire up >your VNC client, point it at the server, and you get an emulated C-64 with a >bunch of old game disks. I haven't had it running since I moved over the >summer, but if anyone's interested I can fire it up and publish the address. An Alphastation running which OS? And VNC doesn't handle sound, does it? Hmm, maybe it should. And you know about the built-in VNC web server, right? You don't even need a client, just a browser. Emulation ASP not only sounds like fun, but it's probably a more meaty business model than your average dot-com. - John

25 years, 6 months

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No subject

by null＠domain2.bigpond.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CAHFPJCA.EXE Type: application/octet-stream Size: 24064 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001215/a34ab665/CA…

25 years, 6 months

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Antigen found W32/Hybris-B virus

by ANTIGEN_EXCHANGE-SMTP＠cmh.edu

Antigen for Exchange found CAHFPJCA.EXE infected with W32/Hybris-B virus. The file is currently Deleted. The message, "classiccmp-digest V1 #457", was sent from owner-classiccmp-digest(a)classiccmp.org (classiccmp-digest) and was discovered in IMC Queues\Inbound located at CMHMAIL/CMHMAIL/EXCHANGE-SMTP.

25 years, 6 months

2
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Virus/worm?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

'Smatter of fact, so do I, for my _personal_ e-mail... Actually, I don't always end up "previewing" my mail with Pine, but lately, I have been. Ultimately, if I don't delete the messages from Pine, I download the remaining messages with Pegasus Mail, which similarly seems immune to all these Lookout virii. BTW, I'm using Pine (4.31?) under Solaris (my ISP says they'll always provide shell access, and I'm one of the few people who turned off the Lynx-based menu system for the shell (Korn). I like Bash, perhaps I should switch shells... dang, I'm drifting OT again. C Ya! -dq > ---------- > From: Sellam Ismail > Reply To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 2:48 PM > To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Virus/worm? > > On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > Strange... my trace of the addresses didn't point to a site in Crete... > > > > Seriously, I never even received it- Groupshield Exchange always detects > > this stuff and puts it in quarantine; the original attachment was > replaced > > by a message alerting me to what happened. > > > > Of course, as the sysadmin, I'd already received a "ticket" informing me > > that an infected message had come in and was taken care of. > > > > Buggy, and difficult to administer, but the NAI Total Virus Defense > > package hasn't slipped and let anything through yet... > > I read my mail using PINE on my linux server over a telnet session. It has > automatic anti-virus features built-in :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org >

25 years, 6 months

3
2
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Anyone know this guy

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

In Wednesday's USA Today there was a article on Silicon Valley and it talked about a guy named Gordon Bell and the fact that he is helping create a computer history museum in the valley. The paper says he works for Microsoft Research and is doing this on the side. It then goes on tell about some of the collection that he has in his warehouse. Short but nice article. John Keys

25 years, 6 months

5
4
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Vintage computers in movies

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

Almost a computer system :) If I remember correctly Robert Redford was reading the output from a Decwriter III in "Three Days of the Condor". Supposedly the computer system did automatic language translation. I don't remember what the rest of the system looked like. Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

25 years, 6 months

2
1
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TI MicroProcessor Learning System ???

by PeksaDO＠Cardiff.ac.uk

I have something very similar (if not identical) to the black box with white top and metal toggle switches. Mine is a microprogrammer (as visible on the picture) LCM-1001. I have nothing to plug into the expansion socket but do have a paperback book containing diagrams similar to those on the cover of the hardback book shown in the picture. It might be the same book in paperback - I'll have to check. My microprogrammer still works happily on its original NiCads - not bad for something over twenty years old. I still have the original box. Also have the mains adapter/charger. Doug.

25 years, 6 months

1
0
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The debate on what per say is a mini...

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

Yeah, the mainframe is obsolete... riiiight... Gee, that hasn't been said before in the last 30 years has it? Sure, maybe the role of the mainframe has diminished to a large degree, but they still are useful and powerful machines. If you want to run a huge website without it crashing, and have thousands and thousands of people accessing it, buy a mainframe. There was recently an article in VARBusiness I believe about .com businesses replacing Suns and the like with mainframes because of the need for reliability and the fact that they went from many many boxes to only one.. An example that I remember was a company that replaced around 500 NT servers with a single System/390.. And while I haven't seen the newest IBM mainframes in person, I have seen a fairly recent System/390, and the whole thing is only about 5' x 5' or so, and not all that tall either... Compared to my 4381, that's a huge shrinkage, since just the processor takes up more space than that almost! And mainframes now use standard disk drives, instead of things like my IBM 3880, which is, like the 4381, 6' tall, 6' wide, and 4' deep, and weighs in at around 1000 or more pounds. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

25 years, 6 months

1
0
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Virus/worm?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> I received the same attachment this morning but it was from a hotmail > address. This is a shame that a Cretan has to cause this disruption. Strange... my trace of the addresses didn't point to a site in Crete... Seriously, I never even received it- Groupshield Exchange always detects this stuff and puts it in quarantine; the original attachment was replaced by a message alerting me to what happened. Of course, as the sysadmin, I'd already received a "ticket" informing me that an infected message had come in and was taken care of. Buggy, and difficult to administer, but the NAI Total Virus Defense package hasn't slipped and let anything through yet... regards all, -dq

25 years, 6 months

2
1
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Mac IIfx and IEEE-488 interface

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 14, Jeff Hellige wrote: > I was checking out some Mac IIfx machines today and they had > what appeared to be boards with a single IEEE-488 connector on them. > To the best of my knowledge, all the machines were used as graphics > workstations. I've never seen that interface on a Mac before > though...any ideas what it might have been used for? Well, National Instruments does make a few NuBus IEEE-488 cards...crack open one of the machines and see who made it. If memory serves, though, they also made a card that *looks* like an IEEE interface but isn't. I've never actually seen one of those, but I have several of the real IEEE-488 NuBus boards. -Dave McGuire

25 years, 6 months

2
1
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storage media

by mbg＠world.std.com

>"IBM used to send out its salesmen with little 1/24 > models of their Mainframe installations to do site > planning on the desktop first before bringing in the > actual HW. With Moore's Law and the progress of > miniaturization, you could Build a system that big > now that actually works." > >Only with more power. Imagine putting together a little model of, say, the PDP-10 system on the back cover of one of the PDP-10 reference manuals, but build an imbedded x86 machine into the model, with one serial line... run linux on the the embedded machine and Timothy Stark's pdp-10 emulator running TOPS-10... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

25 years, 6 months

4
3
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Virus/worm?

by LFessen106＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/15/00 10:11:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, rmeenaks(a)olf.com writes: > Apparently a virus as NAV responded: > > Sender of the infected attachment: null(a)domain2.bigpond.com > Subject of the message: > One or more attachments were quarantined. > Attachment CAHFPJCA.EXE was Quarantined for the following reasons: > Virus W95.Hybris.gen was found. > > Ram > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Arnott" <jrasite(a)eoni.com> > To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> > Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 1:51 AM > Subject: Virus/worm? > > > > This morning I received a post to classiccmp from > > 'null(a)domain2.bigpond.com' containing an executable entitled > > 'CAHFPJCA.EXE'. I run a Mac, so it's no threat to me, but folks > > running the 90% solution might want to be careful... > > > > Jim > One of the many reasons I run Linux as my OS of choice is so I can chuckle robustly at these virus attachments. -Linc Fessenden

25 years, 6 months

2
2
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TV cards/WOZ disks

by agraham＠ccat.co.uk

> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:20:43 -0800 (PST) > From: Cameron Kaiser <spectre(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Subject: Re: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) > > You probably have a PeeCee, but I bought a Formac PCI tuner > card for my > PowerMac. After I had a mild brain fart getting the RF input I wish I had the cash to buy a PowerMac! Believe it or not our little one uses a Color Classic at school so she's right into Apples ATM :) She's only 4 1/2 but had no bother navigating her way round a Performer 475 last weekend! > > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:06:44 -0700 (MST) > From: Jim Strickland <jim(a)calico.litterbox.com> > Subject: Re: GS disks an' that. > > The easiest (and IMHO best) solution to this problem is to go > to www.allelec.com > and for $69 purchase the focusdrive IIgs, which has system > 6.0.1 already > on it. These drives are great. You'll need at least a 4 mb > memory expander > to run it though. Ah, but that's money :) I'd rather spend the cash on saving more machines >from the skip...... > > I've got a spare Amiga -> CVBS cable if needs be...... > > What does this do? Perhaps we could trade amiga hardware for > GS hardware? It's the official C= D23 to red/white/yellow RCA type connectors to plug into a 1084 monitor or any CVBS supporting monitor like the Philips CM8833. > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:21:00 -0500 > From: THETechnoid(a)home.com > Subject: Re: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) > > My friend Mark of Skyforward Productions uses a Mirrovideo dc30 series > card that does both video standards. I think it might also do > PAL/M and > Secam. You will have to research the newer-model cards as his is no > longer made. thanks! I'll do a swift google search and see what I turn up. > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:21:27 -0500 > From: Jeff Hellige <jhellige(a)earthlink.net> > Subject: Re: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) > > For an older PC using PCI slots for the video card, the Real > 3D Starfighter had a version that had both inputs and outputs that > could work with both PAL and NTSC. It's a 3D card based on the i860 > and it has 16meg of RAM onboard. I used to see these on eBay quite a > bit. 'Tis a pity my primary card is a AGP Nvidia GeForce 2......thanks anyway. > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 23:59:42 +0100 (CET) > From: kees.stravers(a)iae.nl > Subject: Re: TV Tuner cards (Correction) > > The Matrox Marvel G400-TV can record and playback in both PAL > and NTSC. > Kees. Can it? I didn't know that......I might be able to get one of these locally. > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:57:27 -0800 > From: "Henry Broekhuyse" <broekh(a)interchange.ubc.ca> > Subject: RE: GS disks an' that. > > The original posting on this topic was from someone with an > original "Woz" GS. Many "Woz" GSs were of the "ROM 00" type (the later > versions were ROM 01 and ROM 03). Apparently all versions of GS/OS require a > minimum version of ROM 01. Actually, mine isn't an original "Woz edition" per se. It's a normal GS that's been signed by the man himself and dedicated to the previous owner underneath the hood ("Richard, love a bug" it says - the previous owner was the man behind the Apple Retrospective website and he has a thing about VW beetles). I was looking at it last week trying to find out what version ROM it has and I drew a blank. I'll check the FAQ, but I think the core thing I must do is get a 3.5" floppy that will actually work. > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:32:53 +0000 > From: Jim Arnott <jrasite(a)eoni.com> > Subject: Re: GS disks an' that. > > WHile we're on the subject of GS's... The local thrift store has a > complete IIgs system (CPU, monitor, external 3.5" drive, Imagewriter > II, cables, power supplies, software) that they're asking $25 for. > Anyone interested? Claim that it fires up just fine. (shipping would > be from 97883) And therefore too expensive to get to the UK. I don't suppose you could just buy the floppy drive for me could you? :o)) cheers folks adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum

25 years, 6 months

3
2
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TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :)

by Scott.Miller＠vandenberg.af.mil

I just picked up a Pinnacle Systems Studio PCTVpro at Office Depot for about $80. It does NTSC, PAL, and SECAM. Or at least it says it does... I don't have anything besides NTSC to test it with. Scott -----Original Message----- From: Adrian Graham [mailto:agraham@ccat.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 7:12 AM To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' Subject: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) Hi folks, I thought I had a great idea the other day. Since the number of NTSC machines in my collection is growing and my little NTSC portable isn't the best of things to look at (3" screen!) I thought I'd get a TV tuner card for my PC that would allow me to connect up my PAL machines and my NTSC machines. Amongst other things this would let me do screen grabs of uncommon machine boot screens and the like for the museum. Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does anyone know of a card that does BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live happily together in the same box? cheers adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum

25 years, 6 months

1
0
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Z80 SIO programming

by ncherry＠home.net

I've been unable to find a programing manual for the Z80 SIO. Does anyone have a link for it, the PIO and CTC? I'm begining to think the search engines are broken. I've been finding a lot less on the 'net lately. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)

25 years, 6 months

4
5
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Virus/worm?

by dburrows＠netpath.net

I just sent a complaint to the appropriate abuse department of the sender. It is infected with W95.HYBRIS.GEN virus. What I also found interesting is my incoming filters did not move it to the classic -cmp directory like it does for everything else. Dan >This morning I received a post to classiccmp from >'null(a)domain2.bigpond.com' containing an executable entitled >'CAHFPJCA.EXE'. I run a Mac, so it's no threat to me, but folks >running the 90% solution might want to be careful... > >Jim

25 years, 6 months

1
0
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Vintage computers in movies

by mbg＠world.std.com

>> PDP-8 in 3 days of the condor > ><anal retentive mode> Which model PDP-8? B^} </anal retentive mode> I'll have to watch it again to find out... I've forgotten. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

25 years, 6 months

3
2
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TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :)

by agraham＠ccat.co.uk

Hi folks, I thought I had a great idea the other day. Since the number of NTSC machines in my collection is growing and my little NTSC portable isn't the best of things to look at (3" screen!) I thought I'd get a TV tuner card for my PC that would allow me to connect up my PAL machines and my NTSC machines. Amongst other things this would let me do screen grabs of uncommon machine boot screens and the like for the museum. Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does anyone know of a card that does BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live happily together in the same box? cheers adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum

25 years, 6 months

9
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Question about Delphi

by vcf＠siconic.com

Does anyone know what mainframes the online service Delphi ran on? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org

25 years, 6 months

6
5
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Looking for adm3a

by clp＠flange.com

I'm looking for 2 Lear-Seigler adm3a's (the ones with lower case). Please help me save these! Thanks. - Chuck

25 years, 6 months

1
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Mac IIfx and IEEE-488 interface

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 14, Mike Ford wrote: > I've seen at least one high end Kodak photo printer that used a 488 > interface with a Mac, but this is a heck of a guessing game compared to > just firing up the mac and running something like TattleTech that reads the > rom on the cards. Yes, that's right, I had almost forgotten. The XL-7700 and XLT-7720 both use IEEE-488, though at least the 7720 can have a SCSI board. I use a 7720 interfaced to my Mac via SCSI. Gorgeous output; indistinguishable from mainstream photographs. -Dave McGuire

25 years, 6 months

1
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Question about Delphi

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Neil Cherry <ncherry(a)home.net> >Most VAX are mini's (at least in my Opinion). I'm not sure exactly what >decides that a machine is a Main frame, a mini and a micro (yes I know >most desktops are micro's). A MicrovaxII in a BA32 is a mini. I VAX6440 is a super mini. VAX9000 certainly qualifies as MAINFRAME. The '80s blurred mini/mainframe and VAX and AS400 type machines were doing their best to foster that. The VAX (11/780!) was originally called a superminicomputer. Then again a 8250 with a disk farm was anything but mini. Allison

25 years, 6 months

2
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Vintage computers in movies

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 13, Ernest wrote: > >Televideo TS-802 -Pretty in Pink > >AT&T 6300 -Secret to My Success > >IMSAI -Wargames > >HP-150 -Real Genius > >GE Differential Analyzer (UCLA) -When Worlds Collide > >Thinking Machines CM-5 -Jurrasic Park > >Memotech FDX500 or MTX512 -Weird Science > >Mac Plus -Star Trek IV > >VAX 11/750 with IBM 3290 plasma display panels -some independant film (?) > > It's kind of cool to be able to spot a vintage computer that you recognize > in a movie. I never noticed the computers in "Secret to my Success" until I > found a AT&T 6300, and then the computers on the desks might as well of had > flashing red lights on them. "Hey! I've got one of those." Wait a minute...Wasn't it a 7300, not a 6300, in the "Secret of my Success"? -Dave McGuire

25 years, 6 months

3
2
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DEC CR05/ Peripheral Dynamics 2022H card reader

by djg＠drs-esg.com

I think this got lost in the server rearrange: Anybody have information on this card reader? It says DEC CR05 on the outside but seems to be made by Peripheral Dynamics, made in 1981. I just acquired it and would like to figure out the I/O etc. Thanks, David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Old computers with blinkenlights

25 years, 6 months

1
0
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Apple II SCSI card firmware rev C wanted

by eric＠brouhaha.com

I have an Apple II SCSI card (the original, not the "High-Speed") that I just discovered has firmware too old for use with GS/OS. On boot, GS/OS (System 6.0.1) tells me that I need version C or newer. Anyone have an image of the Rev C (or newer) EPROM? Thanks! Eric

25 years, 6 months

1
1
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Vintage computers in movies

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> It may have been a said on the list in the > earlier thread that the Sage debuted(sp) in > "Desk Set" and came back in "Dear Bridgett" > and then later in "What a Way to Go". Was "Desk Set" the Tracy-Hepburn film with him as an efficiency expert, to her girl-from- small-town-working-in-the-big-city? I also recall a late 60s/early 70s film, that I think starred Patrick McGoohan, with him playing a mathematician/codebreaking expert, who employed a large number of beautiful women who actually did the codebusting; but they used a computer to check the results. I think we saw a shot of the computer, but I wasn't kind to my memory organ back in those days... ring any bells? -dq

25 years, 6 months

2
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Anyone else with an interest in Fortune Systems ?

by kapteynr＠cboe.com

Hi: I retired mine when the Miniscribe 10MB hard drive gave too many errors to be useful. But otherwise, I have everything complete with manuals and disks. The only "extras" I ever got were some extra Unix utilities and a Fortran compiler. The "special terminal" is actually just a low-resolution monochrome monitor connected with an RJ-45 type connector. (Character based, no graphics) The keyboard plugs into a similar connector on the front. Later models had a keyswitch, mine does not. Fortune made very nice stuff at an acceptable price for their day, but they crippled everything by making it non-standard to try to control their market. If you wanted a cheap computer to do Fortran programming, like I did, the only competition was the original IBM PC, which was brand new back then. The fact that the Fortune ran Unix made me choose the Fortune. I have no time for my collection either, but with an economic recession on the way, I might soon find myself with lots of spare time :-) In your "parts" machine, you wouldn't happen to have an ethernet card, would you ? I know that they sold them, but they were too expensive for me back then. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: David Williams [SMTP:dlw@trailingedge.com] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 4:55 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Anyone else with an interest in Fortune Systems ? Hi, I've always been interested in them. I was hired back in the early 80s to pick a multi-user system for a business and that was one of the boxs we looked at. I have 2 of them and a third in parts along with some doc but don't have the special terminal to work with it. Thus I have never been able to bring them up. They seem to need some special key when trying to access these and I have no idea what sequence it sends so I could mimic it on another terminal. One day I plan on scanning the doc but haven't had the time. But since I've dropped one side job recently maybe now I'll have more time for my collection. David ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat You can learn to like the life you live or live the life you like. dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

25 years, 6 months

1
0
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First personal computer nostalgia

by markp＠wccls.lib.or.us

-----Original Message----- From: Iggy Drougge [mailto:optimus@canit.se] Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 3:26 PM To: Mark Price Subject: RE: First personal computer nostalgia [snip!] >I'm sorry, but I feel it's nitpicking time... >I've never heard of an Atari 1050ST before, nor of a 1 MB hard drive fitted to >an ST. OTOH, there is the Atari 1040ST, which had 1 MB of RAM. You are correct, sir. My 5 should've been a 4. Nit well picked. ============================== Mark Price, Library Computer Specialist Washington County Cooperative Library Services e-mail: markp(a)wccls.lib.or.us voice: 503-846-3230 fax: 503-846-3220

25 years, 6 months

1
0
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Vintage computers in movies

by markp＠wccls.lib.or.us

-----Original Message----- From: Ernest [mailto:ernestls@home.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 10:47 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Vintage computers in movies >Televideo TS-802 -Pretty in Pink >AT&T 6300 -Secret to My Success >IMSAI -Wargames >HP-150 -Real Genius >GE Differential Analyzer (UCLA) -When Worlds Collide >Thinking Machines CM-5 -Jurrasic Park >Memotech FDX500 or MTX512 -Weird Science >Mac Plus -Star Trek IV >VAX 11/750 with IBM 3290 plasma display panels -some independant film (?) IBM XT or AT -Stand by Me (1986) Richard Dreyfuss is the grown-up writer whose coming-of-age story we see portrayed in the film. At the end, he's sitting there at his XT or AT (I haven't seen it in a while) and regards with satisfaction the novel he's just finished writing on his amazing menu-free, rulerless word processor. His kids are calling him, so he reaches up and--oh, no--shuts off the computer?? Aacckk!! YOU DIDN'T SAVE YOUR WORK, RICHARD! But maybe he was just shutting off the monitor to avoid screen-burn. Yeah, that's it. (I squirm every time I see that scene.) And does this one count? In This Island Earth (1954), made great fun of in Mystery Science Theater 3000: The Movie (1996), Dr. Jeff Meachum gets a computer kit from the planet Metaluna. Like most computer kits, this one takes him and his PhD. buddy utilizing an entire university physics lab just to get it put together, BUT they end up with an "Interocetor," I believe it was called, a very cool mini that ran on a single glass bead and was controlled by a single colorful plastic wheel. It featured a large triangular monitor and--a heat ray! (Much more effective than a screen-saver at keeping gawkers from looking at your work.) Apparently, not many Interocetor kits were sold in the U.S. because for one thing Metaluna was soon destroyed in an interstellar war before they could open any plants in Mexico, and for another, there's nobody bumming Interocetor documentation on this list. Too bad, the monitor heat ray could be very handy. I have a flickering Vivitron at home that feels like it fries my retina, but it's just not the same... ============================== Mark Price, Library Computer Specialist Washington County Cooperative Library Services e-mail: markp(a)wccls.lib.or.us voice: 503-846-3230 fax: 503-846-3220

25 years, 6 months

1
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