- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 12, 14:14, ajp166 wrote: > What your havent tried is differnt controllers and different drives. > > I found an old 486 or 386 machine to be less troublesome and also > has fewer preconceived notions of the world. Also I ran dos not > windows(any version)! > > I was able to make Venix disks for my Pro many years ago and also > OS278 (also rx50). What I had to do however was to play with the > jumpers on a TEAC FD55GFV (the verseion with many jumpers) > to lock out the 1.2mb mode. Which leads me to think about a tangentially-related problem -- I recall that some FDCs insist upon the index mark at the start of the track, and some don't, but I can't remember which FDCs do/don't (I think WD 37C65 etc need it but NatSemi DP8473 and WD 1770/1772 don't care). Also, I recall that some FDCs are more likely to work with 8" drives than others, and some are more likely to work at single density than others (at least, some PC ISA controllers are unlikely to work at SD because the relevant components are not there). I want to set up a PC to use with 8" drives, including single density, mostly with 22DISK. I have a choice of 386/486/Pentium motherboards, and a selection of ISA controllers, with an assortment of 765, 8272, 37C65, and 8473 FDCs (I haven't checked, but I'm pretty sure I have at least one of each). What is most likely to work? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

25 years, 1 month

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Vintageness ( was Re: Serious Request For Moderation (On

by foo＠siconic.com

On 12 May 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > >Silly argument, but I'll humor you by saying they would at least be highly > >collectable (and highly valued), as they were used to paint the Mona Lisa. > >Are you starting to see the connection here? > > Of course they would be highly valued, but my point is not whether they are, > but whether they should. You say "of course they would be highly valued" then as whether they should. That's for you to decide. I would highly value them. > >Abstractly, yes. The original is a tangible product of the man, hence > >it's value relative to copies. > > Are copies less tangible? No, but they don't offer a direct connection to Da Vinci. I would prefer something Da Vinci himself had a hand in creating rather than some 3rd rate art school schlub, or even a 1st rate renowned painter (unless I happen to be fond of the 3rd rate schlub or the 1st rate painter). Again, the connection is with the creator. And you've been arguing this for so long now that you've forgotten that we are not judging the work in and of itself. The work stands alone for judgement whether it be an old computer or a painting. But the original was a direct part of someone's life, and in that regard it is "tangible", whereas a new reproduction or copy is not (not tangible to anyone elses life besides now your own). > >> But of course it can! It's built from the same plans and offers the > >> same functionality. > > >And it has all the historical significance that everything "Made in > >Taiwan" has. Yes, of course! > > It doesn't matter whether it's built in Taiwan or the Czech republic > as long as it's according to the plans. And if all you're after is functionality then your point is well taken. However, if you're after historical context then the original is obviously preferred. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org

25 years, 1 month

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DRV11-WA info

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> >Bus Address Register (puts this address on the Bus) and yes there are two >more bits in the CSR for XAD16 and XAD17 to tell it the upper two bits of >the address (16 + 2 = 18) but no word on if there are four more bits >squirrelled around somewhere to do it right for the 22 bit back planes. I Nope only 18bit. Thats an old card. >Another idea I had was to hook up perhaps some M7941s to some solenoids, >light bulbs, etc and have the local high school kids see what sort of >effects they can create. Yes, good appication. or a matrix of leds and switches for a simple game. Allison

25 years, 1 month

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DRV11-WA info

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Well, wandering through my handbook collection for something that might be interesting I came across the Microcomputer Products Handbook from 1985. This is a 'Q-bus products overview' book. And lo' and behold we find the tech sheet for the DRV11-WA which is the replacement for the mature DRV11-B. That being said, I'm now on the hunt for DEC document EK-DRVWA-UG the DRV11-WA Users Guide. I'll happily trade a DELQUA users guide or a DHV11 users guide for it. I even found a cab kit for it in my box of misc cab kits. What I haven't yet figured out is how it DMAs into a 22bit address space with a 16 bit Bus Address register. Perhaps there are some bits in the CSR to set bits 18 through 21. In processing a google search I discovered that the DECUS.org archives are now not where they used to be (I couldn't find them easily) Perhaps the coolest thing I've seen so far is that you can almost use this thing to create a front panel for an LSI-11 system. You can certainly deposit and examine memory and start and stop the processor :-) --Chuck

25 years, 1 month

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Docs for DRV-11?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> >I didn't know it was practical to use mass storage devices under VMS without >using the MSCP. Gee ... I didn't think I'd ever learn anything more about DEC MSCP was not the only mass storage interface. IT was most commonly used on smaller Qbus VAXen. The 780, 750, 730, MV2000, 3100s and many others didn't use it or didn't even provide for it. FYI: The grey wall provides the basic information and even examples for doing device drivers. The best example was some russian chap that did a PIO interface (simple) for a PDP-11 or Microvax (qbus). Even had drivers for both if memory is working. It was not the fastest way to go but cheap. >experience, though not DEC's fault. It's too bad the PC folks didn't think of a >way to hook an external device to the PC internals without direct access to the >bus the way this board does things. That allows you to aviod the "broken" I/O >device from making the system "broken" as well. I still have the doc's for that >I/O board around somewhere. ADAC and CSC to name a few make boards very similar to DRV11 some 8255 based, others Z80 PIO or TTL.. I've used several to hang custom IO on PCs without doing a bus interface. Allison

25 years, 1 month

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Apple Lisa 2 conversion back to Lisa 1

by radioantique1＠sympatico.ca

I have several Lisa 2's and a pair of twiggy floppies plus a old Lisa CPU board with Lisa 1 ROM's on it. When boot system get 2 drive icon. Is it possible to convert the Lisa 2's back to Lisa 1 with this CPU board and the two twiggy drives?. Does anybody have doc's for the twiggy drives. I am lucking enough to have a new floppy for them. thanks

25 years, 1 month

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FDCs -- was Re: TELEDISK Problem

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> >Which leads me to think about a tangentially-related problem -- I recall >that some FDCs insist upon the index mark at the start of the track, and >some don't, but I can't remember which FDCs do/don't (I think WD 37C65 etc >need it but NatSemi DP8473 and WD 1770/1772 don't care). They all do save for the WD. However without index you may have other problems. >Also, I recall that some FDCs are more likely to work with 8" drives than >others, and some are more likely to work at single density than others (at WD had a few that were speed limited but all the 765 and later based on that core cared less what siase save for many PC implmentations didn't provide the adaquately fast clocks needed to run 8". that was not a chip problem but was a board (controller) problem. >least, some PC ISA controllers are unlikely to work at SD because the >relevant components are not there). I want to set up a PC to use with 8" Some yes, other would easily do 8" single but not double or the reverse case. The older 765 PC controller designs were often PC centric, minimalist and limited. The 37C65 if it had the 9.6 and 16mhz external clocks would do all modes if programmed properly. >drives, including single density, mostly with 22DISK. I have a choice of >386/486/Pentium motherboards, and a selection of ISA controllers, with an >assortment of 765, 8272, 37C65, and 8473 FDCs (I haven't checked, but I'm >pretty sure I have at least one of each). What is most likely to work? I'd go with the 37C65 board IF it has the clock logic for both 9.6 mhz (1.2mb) and 16 mhz (all other 3.5, 5.25 and 8 inch formats). FYI the 8272 is a 765 so no difference at all. The 8743 is a 765 core with some of the external logic the older 765 didnt contain on the same silicon. SMC did some 765 core with clock and data sep like WD37c65. In the end you'll find most PC controllers do not support the full 8" singnal set, missing are TG43, ready/fault and a few other lesser ones. Allison

25 years, 1 month

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Power supply question

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: ip500 <ip500(a)home.com> > Would a "modern" switching supply ie: a cheap, generic PC supply >have enough output to run a vintage machine? I had considered doing that At best the answer is maybe. Reason is I have no idea of the specific vintage machines power needs. For example the average PC power supply can run from 145-350 watts and that alone covers a lot of ground. Ther other problem is most of the PC power supplies outout is +5 and some +12, some of the vintage machines may have heavier needs for +12 or maybe -12. Another example is the PDP-8/f I have, a 250W PC supply would easily satisfy the +5v needs but would fail badly as the PDP-8 wants +15 and -15 something a PC supply cannot do. >faulty memory] the HP drew about 20 amps or so on the +5 line. Shouldn't >be too hard to pull a couple of the faulty cards to make room for the >much smaller [physically] supply. Might be a problem with lack of decent >air circulation for cooling though. > Again from memory ... even the CE's really didn't want to fool with >repairing the PS units on these. When I bought a bunch of HP gear there >were 8 or 10 dead supplies that had been stashed away to maybe fix >"someday'. Many people are scared of PS units. Switch mode PSUs are harder to fix than linear. Then again I fixed a BA123 supply by replacing a failed internal fuse! So first testing and deciding how bad the failed unit is likely first order of the day. Allison

25 years, 1 month

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Docs for DRV-11?

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Does anyone have docs on a DRV-11? (16 bit Parallel I/O). I bought one on Ebay (perhaps it will help in my quest to kludge a cheap SCSI controller for Q-bus vaxen :-) and now I need some docs for it... I'll check the handbook when I get home too. --Chuck

25 years, 1 month

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DRV11-WA info

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> >things into memory where the BAR register is pointing. Changing the BAR >from the edge connector is going to be a challenge unless you had two and >the second one was set up to DMA into the BAR of the other :-) Since the DEC chipset used made getting at the DMA address and DMA counters impossible from the card edge (it was a bus interface) it's awkward at best. Allison

25 years, 1 month

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DRV11-WA info

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> >The LSI-11 is "out of the loop" in this case. The DRV11-WA can take over >the Q-bus and hold off the processor while it reads or writes memory >locations. That gives you the ability to deposit and examine stuff in Hard way to go. ;) >What we're missing is a way to load the PC on the LSI 11 externally, but we >can do some of that using an interrupt vector and by manipulating one of >the vector locations to have the PC where you want the system to start. two locations 04 and 24 are candidates. If memory serves 24 is powerfail restart. >Yes, its a kludge on a major scale, but its blinkenlights :-) Yes, blinkin lights are cool but even in 1977 they were considered a PITA rather than an aid save for special cases. I busted enough fingers on 8s, 11s and altairs/imsais to keep me unhappy. I see putting blinkin lights on machines that never had them to be a guilding the Lilly pointlessness. Allison

25 years, 1 month

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TELEDISK Problem

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> > I swapped my 1.2mb drive for a Teac 360k drive. No difference. I >tried both BIOS and Direct settings with no difference. I'm running MS_DOS >and rebooted with NO drivers or TSRs but nothing helps. The one odd thing That will not work. RX50 is 96tpi and ALL 360k drivs are 48TPI, a non starter. The TEAC FD55GFV is the same drive DEC used (RX33) which is 1.2mb and RX50 (400k single sided) compatable. The trick is getting the controller and drive to interface right and the software should follow. >know it seems to be working for nearly everyone else but Teledisk simply >will not work for me! My only guess at this point is that perhaps it's >incompatible with my FD controller IC. But BIOS should isolate it from >that, so who knows. Some FDCs cannot do the 10 sector format, end game. Actually most 765 based designs are not best suited as the GAPs and IRGs are very small (below reasonable). The DEC designs Pro, Rainbow, Decmate, VT180 used WD1793 (not used on PCs) and only the PDP-11/VAX designs used a 765 biased (SMC9224) design for the MSCP controller (RQDX) which could format and read/write the RX50. Hoep that helps some. Me I'd try a different (meaning secondary) disk controller in the same 486/100 box.

25 years, 1 month

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TELEDISK Problem

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> >>What your havent tried is differnt controllers and different drives. > > > I have tried it with two 1.2Mb drives and one 360k drive. I haven't >changed the controller since my video card, HD controller and ports are all >on the same card. I would have to rebuild the system to replace that card. Which 1.2mb drive? First of RX50 is not 1.2 compatable, it's 96tpi (as most 1.2mb drives are) and would corrspond to a 360k formatted 5.25 (single sided). A 360k drive is NOT useable for RX50 format. The usual 360k media is fine however. > Absolutely! I run everything that I can in DOS mode. Also I'm using >a 486-100. FWIW I've run lots of other weird file conversion SW should >as the HP LIF utilities with no problems. I also used a lot of odd >interfaces (on occasion) in it and I've had no problem with them. Doesnt rule out bios/hardware though. > I have a couple more old PCs laying around for parts. I need to try >Teledisk on them but I'm so discusted with it that I haven't bothered. maybe. I found that the standard teac FD55GFR in my system had to be jumpered correctly to work right. The likely reason was the TEAC I used came from a DEC system (also called RX33) so I know TEAC are compatable at the drive level for the media (rx50). Allison

25 years, 1 month

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TELEDISK Problem

by dittman＠dittman.net

I'm trying to write some RX50 disk images using Teledisk. I can use 22DISK and PUTR to format the floppies, but Teledisk will not write to them. I get an error that the drive or controller is returning an unsupported status. Since Teledisk has been acquired by the Ministry of Disinformation I can't buy a commercial copy (I've tried 2.12, which locked up my system, and 2.15, which just give the errors an quits). Is there any other program that will write Teledisk image files? -- Eric Dittman dittman(a)dittman.net

25 years, 1 month

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TELEDISK Problem

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> >the same kind of errors that you're getting. I've tried Teledisk with at >least 50 different disks (most KNOWN good) and at least 6 different data >formats but the ONLY thing it will copy is MS_DOS disks. I've given up on >it. I've already tried everything that everyone has suggested and I'm fed What your havent tried is differnt controllers and different drives. I found an old 486 or 386 machine to be less troublesome and also has fewer preconceived notions of the world. Also I ran dos not windows(any version)! I was able to make Venix disks for my Pro many years ago and also OS278 (also rx50). What I had to do however was to play with the jumpers on a TEAC FD55GFV (the verseion with many jumpers) to lock out the 1.2mb mode. I may add My experience is with the older (must be at least 6 years old) copy of the freeware version of teledisk not the full bore commercial. Allison

25 years, 1 month

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board id/finds

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On May 11, Chuck McManis wrote: > However, one of the other things was an Emulex board that I'm trying to > identify. It has these numbers: > K12S12/500W > SN: AAG6933 CM > Assy #: QS0910201-02 > > Then four high density 36 pin honda connectors on an Sbox handle. There is > also a small three position switch labeled 'norm', 'reset', and 'setup.' > I'm guessing it is some sort of async port. Anyone know for sure? Does > anyone know the actual Emulex model number and if cables are available? If > its a 32 port serial card it would be pretty cool. Emulex QS09: 16 port async mux. -Dave McGuire

25 years, 1 month

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DRV11-WA info

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

>>Perhaps the coolest thing I've seen so far is that you can almost use this >>thing to create a front panel for an LSI-11 system. You can certainly >>deposit and examine memory and start and stop the processor :-) Really? LSI-11 never stops, it idles in a microcode loop. Also LSI-11 has microcode ODT, that is the front pannel. Allison

25 years, 1 month

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KIM envy

by AugustineUdoh＠aol.com

Does anyone out there get manuals for HP5036A microprocessor trainer kit? Please let me because I am looking for this manual. Please reply to augustineudoh(a)aol.com. Thanks A. Udoh

25 years, 1 month

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TELEDISK Problem

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Eric Dittman <dittman(a)dittman.net> >I'm trying to write some RX50 disk images >using Teledisk. I can use 22DISK and PUTR >to format the floppies, but Teledisk will >not write to them. I get an error that >the drive or controller is returning an >unsupported status. The MSDOS floppies MUST be bulk erased first PRIOR to formatting. I have had poor results otherwise. Allison

25 years, 1 month

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TELEDISK Problem

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Eric Dittman <dittman(a)dittman.net> >> > I'm trying to write some RX50 disk images >> > using Teledisk. I can use 22DISK and PUTR >> > to format the floppies, but Teledisk will >> > not write to them. I get an error that >> > the drive or controller is returning an >> > unsupported status. >> >> What happens if you format them as MS-DOS floppies, and then try to get >> Teledisk to write to them? I believe that is the way Teledisk expects them >> to be. > >I'll try that and see. Dont bother. MSdos formats as 9 sectors of 512bytes, RX50 format is 10 sectors of 512bytes. Putr I think will do that as would some DEC diagnostics. RX50 format is: 10 sectors, 512bytes 96 TPI, 80 tracks single sided, double density (250kbs) Allison

25 years, 1 month

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Pro380 Ethernet Adapter

by dittman＠dittman.net

Since I've now got my Pro380 reloaded from scratch and working, I'm now looking for a DECNA Ethernet interface card so I can connect the Pro380 to my network. If anyone has a spare they'd be willing to sell, please let me know. -- Eric Dittman dittman(a)dittman.net

25 years, 1 month

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PDP-8's; classiccmp-digest V1 #597

by brian＠quarterbyte.com

Hi Michael, When I read your post about a pallet of ten PDP-8's, it reminded me of an old Far Side cartoon, which had something to do with two cats watching the scene of a truck crash between "Bob's Small Furry Rodents" and ... I don't remember what the other truck said. Anyway, I imagine your message set off salivation glands around the world. I saw a PDP-8 bring in $800 on e-bay a couple of weeks ago. Someone on this list said that a year or two ago, they were going for upwards of $2K. I don't know what they go for at swaps/ hobbyist fairs. In any case, the supply of them is very scarce, due, no doubt, to electronics shop owners who've hoarded them by the pallet load. Whatever you pay for them, I don't think you'll have any trouble getting rid of the ones you can't keep. I'm not yet a collector but have recently started looking for a PDP-8 and a PDP-11. I learned programming on these things and I'd really like to have one to restore and maintain. Whatever happens with this pallet, could you let me know if and when one becomes available? I'd really appreciate it. Thanks Brian Knittel

25 years, 1 month

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Converting TTL monitor to Analog

by Lee.Davison＠merlincommunications.com

well, the boxes with intended for multidrop or high-bandwidth serialized compressed digital video are not on topic for this thread. We're trying to establish whether there really are digital interfaces to the old (get it...classic computers... over 10-years old ... using interfaces of that era) Sorry but digital video wasn't new when I started in broadcasting in the early 80s. The BBC used digital for distribution and moving captions were stored digitally (remember the translucent spinning globe? Megabytes of data compressed into a 600kbyte EPROM store). So you'be suggesting 5 bnc's? three for video and two for sync signals? No, one. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses, by Star Internet, delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. For further information visit: http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp

25 years, 1 month

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McI*netting

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 12, 8:23, John Allain wrote: > I't just that an RJ45 didn't Have to be ethernet, so I had to check. Indeed, it could be a serial connector, a phone jack, ISDN, or even (if you were looking at an Asante FriendlyNet adaptor) the AUI side of a transceiver. > Also, it was small enough that I wasn't even thinking it was a > transciever, so thanks Pete T. Most modern networking cards > pin out at 10bT anyway, wonder what the native signals are here > (Quadra)? Well, I'm assuming that what you have is a small box with an RJ45 socket, and a short cable with something that looks like a tiny Centronics printer plug, but with fewer pins? That's the AAUI (Apple Attachment Unit Interface) connector. > Also I wasn't thinging of the cost angle. > Oh, Apple! Yeah that costs. :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

25 years, 1 month

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In search of 20ma to eia converter

by dburrows＠netpath.net

Take a look at ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan/20ma.gif Dan -----Original Message----- From: Megan <mbg(a)world.std.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Thursday, May 10, 2001 11:35 PM Subject: In search of 20ma to eia converter I have an old serial paper tape reader which runs with 20ma and would like to use it to archive all my pdp-11 (and some pdp-8) paper tapes. But I need a converter... Can anyone help? Any pointers to a simple schematic? Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

25 years, 1 month

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TELEDISK Problem

by dittman＠dittman.net

> > What happens if you format them as MS-DOS floppies, and then try to get > > Teledisk to write to them? I believe that is the way Teledisk expects them > > to be. > > I tried to format them as MSDOS floppies. Track 0 > writes okay, but then Teledisk fails with the message > that Track 1 Side 0 Sector 10 can't be found. I searched around and found another Teledisk 2.15 archive. This archive had two different sets of Teledisk, one of which used the BIOS and the other a direct method to access the floppies. I'm now able to write using the direct method. -- Eric Dittman dittman(a)dittman.net

25 years, 1 month

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Converting TTL monitor to Analog

by Lee.Davison＠merlincommunications.com

If it's serialized then it's really moving along! if you've got 1K pixels at a nominally 65 MHz pixel rate with 24 bits per pixel ... I assume the designers at least use three channels, one for each color, so as to reduce that to 8 bits per pixel, right? Use lossless compression, then even hires displays rarely get over 20Mb/s For most applications, the distance from the "box" to the display isn't far at all, but I can see the benefit where a large display might be desirable, as in a classroom or demonstration environment. Or multi drop. Nevertheless, aside from relatively small signal losses, there isn't a big advantage, aside from the fact that every display manufacturer can process the signal however he prefers. Cheaper connectors, cheaper cable, no mismatch artifacts... What sort of connector is used for the serialized digital arrangement? BNC mostly. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses, by Star Internet, delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. For further information visit: http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp

25 years, 1 month

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Vintage

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Russ Blakeman" <rhblake(a)bigfoot.com> wrote: > Much like the term "collectable" - what wide open term. Hell anything is > collectable since you can collect it, even trash. The local dump has all _Everything In Entire World Now Collectible_ http://www.theonion.com/onion3710/everything_collectible.html "According to a report issued Monday by the North American Collector's Association, every single thing currently being manufactured is officially categorized as a collectible." -Frank McConnell

25 years, 1 month

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Converting TTL monitor to Analog

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Not only that going from TTL to analog you will over dirve in the input amps and likely get ringing or saturation effects. All look bad. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Friday, May 11, 2001 9:26 PM Subject: Re: Converting TTL monitor to Analog >Well, I'm not sure you're entirely wrong here, but the ghosting is probably more >a result of poor signal termination than anything else, and the magnitude of the >reflection from a full-swing digital signal is much more likely to show up than >what you'd get form a 1-volt p-p analog signal. Moreover, since you've got much >smaller transitions on the analog video signal, and since you've got an >automatic gain control in the monitor to offset the losses, the line losses >aren't as much a factor as they'd be without it. Digital signaling was OK back >in the text-only and monochrome era, but once things went to full-spectrum >color, it was necessary to present them in analog. The EGA had 16 (?) colors >(maybe that was 16 shades of each of three colors), which already required some >digital=>analog processing at some stage in the process, and, from what I've >observed, it had to be on the adapter board, since the signal from there to the >monitor was already a small-swing analog signal. > >Gosting is another problem that's never plagued me in this arena. Normally it >can be dealt with by proper termination of the video signal. Some monitors rely >on a 150-ohm resistor in the line and only provide that same amount themselves, >while other have a 75-ohm to ground/return. To accompany this some adapters >have a divider rather than simply a series resistor to the output. It depends >on what's in the combination, how well it will work, but I've not been >sufficiently bothered by any mismatch to warrant hacking either circuit. > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Iggy Drougge" <optimus(a)canit.se> >To: "Richard Erlacher" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 5:26 PM >Subject: Re: Converting TTL monitor to Analog > > >> Richard Erlacher skrev: >> >> >What sort of digital interface would such devices use? They'd have to have >> >lots of wires, e.g. 26 or so pairs, if the thing is using 24-bit color. >> >Perish the thought someone would use more color depth than that! It's hard >> >to imagine they'd do that. The number of wires that have to transport >> >high-frequency signal is the reason the analog is still so difficult to >> >surpass. >> >> >After all, a 26-pair shielded cable with an appropriate connector, made in >> >the US, would immediately become the most costly component in a computer >> >system. I doubt a computer maker would go for that, as the 20" monitor >> >(@~$300-$400) is presently the most costly component. That would essentially >> >make the 20" display and cable more than 2/3 the cost of the computer. >> >> But isn't the digital signal less dependent on absolute signal integrity? >> After all, if there can only be two levels, making out the difference can't be >> all that difficult. This also seems to hold true WRT my successful use of >> long, thin, unshielded cables for EGA and CGA monitors without any ghosting. >> >> -- >> En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. >> >> I dunno, I dream in Perl sometimes... >> --Larry Wall in <8538(a)jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV> >> >> >

25 years, 1 month

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In search of 20ma to eia converter

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

If your systems have a DL(V)11E/f your set with the right cable. That means a PDP-11 (Q or U) or Qbus Vaxen (maybe a U bus). Allison -----Original Message----- From: Megan <mbg(a)world.std.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Friday, May 11, 2001 9:38 PM Subject: Re: In search of 20ma to eia converter > >>Which PTR do you have thats 20ma? > >I don't have it in front of me right now, but I think it is the PRS01, >a small reader (6x12x8) which is a table-top unit. > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ >| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | >| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | >| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | >| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | >| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | >| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

25 years, 1 month

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Mac HD using floppy interface

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

SOmebody said they were looking for one of these, please contact me off-list. Thanks Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

25 years, 1 month

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Converting TTL monitor to Analog

by RCini＠congressfinancial.com

Hello, all: I have an old CGA monitor that's working now, but I can envision it someday soon not working. So, I was wondering if anyone has built a converter so that they can use a standard VGA monitor (analog) on a CGA output (TTL)? Rich

25 years, 1 month

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VAXstation claimed

by bsa3＠cornell.edu

The VAXstation 3500 has been claimed. -- Brad Ackerman N1MNB "[John Howard] hasn't emerged from the 1950s, bsa3(a)cornell.edu and he seems rather resentful of anyone who has." http://skaro.pair.com/ -- Bill Leek, _Australia: Beyond the Fatal Shore_

25 years, 1 month

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In search of 20ma to eia converter

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Which PTR do you have thats 20ma? I don't have it in front of me right now, but I think it is the PRS01, a small reader (6x12x8) which is a table-top unit. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

25 years, 1 month

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board id/finds

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Sigh, I've been going through my stuff, paring it down 'cuz I have to move it :-), and this has given me incentive to actually go through some of the systems I've bought but had 'staged' for later analysis. One is a MicroVAX 3600 in the H9644 cabinet. This is a pretty big VAX for the Q-bus series. I've seen custom configs done bigger with the BA23's in a tall corporate rack but as a unit, this was one of the larger Q-bus VAXen around. Now normally these things had the BA213 mounted in the lower part of the rack and a big RA81 or RA82 mounted in the top. One of the things that excited me about this machine was that the RA82 has been removed and replaced with a case filled with 4 SCSI drives and an 8MM DAT drive. SCSI drives normally imply a SCSI interface, but alas, I opened it up and there is one open slot in the backplane and no bus grant jumper. I can guess what used to be there. Oh well. However, one of the other things was an Emulex board that I'm trying to identify. It has these numbers: K12S12/500W SN: AAG6933 CM Assy #: QS0910201-02 Then four high density 36 pin honda connectors on an Sbox handle. There is also a small three position switch labeled 'norm', 'reset', and 'setup.' I'm guessing it is some sort of async port. Anyone know for sure? Does anyone know the actual Emulex model number and if cables are available? If its a 32 port serial card it would be pretty cool. --Chuck

25 years, 1 month

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VAXstation 3500 available (Boston)

by bsa3＠cornell.edu

Available immediately, a VAXstation 3500 with: TQK70 tape controller KDA50 SDI adapter VCD02 frame buffer (4-plane) DSV11 2-line sync SLU DESQA Ethernet adapter, thick/thin MS650 8MB memory board (x2) KA650 CPU board (MicroVAX III) plus a VR290-DA colour monitor (some ghosting), LK-401 keyboard, VSXXX-AA mouse, the keyboard/mouse breakout box, and the power cable. Storage devices installed are a TK70 (control panel indicates a fault of some sort; all three LEDs on the drive blink) and an SID hard drive (c. 270 MB[1]). Also appears to need a new clock battery. Free to a good home; currently located in Somerville, Massachusetts, USA near I-93 exit 30. [1] If I'm reading the output of SHOW DEVICE DUA0: /FULL correctly. -- Brad Ackerman N1MNB "Now some of you may bring up the Tekken OVA. bsa3(a)cornell.edu In response, I'd tend to simply bring up my lunch." PGP: 0x62D6B223 -- His Lordship Chaos http://skaro.pair.com/ from http://www.animeondvd.com/

25 years, 1 month

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VAXstation 3500 available (Boston)

by Demon02554＠aol.com

hmm... i have a friend who may be able to pick it up for me and ship it to Virginia if you are unable to do so yourself.... well that depends how big it is....if nothing else my grandmother is goin to Cape Cod in a little bit also so i could get her to pick it up and then lug it back you have a picture of it? also can i get your address? thanks, Robert Cobbins

25 years, 1 month

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McI*netting

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 11, 18:30, John Allain wrote: > Since McI's were being discussed. > I picked up what I thought was a 10bT adaptor > for Mac this weekend. It fits the quadra and had > an RJ45, but... It's marked 'Dayna EasyNet'. > Could this be right? Thought it would/should be > an Apple product, being such a basic need. Yes, it's a 10baseT transceiver. Lots of companies made transceivers to fit Macs, because the Apple ones were expensive. I've got ones made by Asante and Farallon. Allied Telesyn made the best (IMHO) ones, and had a whole range including fibre transceivers. There are some made by Sun that look the same -- but they only work on Sun workstations (different pinout). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

25 years, 1 month

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In search of 20ma to eia converter

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Which PTR do you have thats 20ma? Allison -----Original Message----- From: Megan <mbg(a)world.std.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Thursday, May 10, 2001 11:49 PM Subject: In search of 20ma to eia converter > >I have an old serial paper tape reader which runs with >20ma and would like to use it to archive all my pdp-11 >(and some pdp-8) paper tapes. But I need a converter... > >Can anyone help? Any pointers to a simple schematic? > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ >| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | >| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | >| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | >| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | >| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | >| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

25 years, 1 month

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Looking for PDP 11 or Vax 11/7xx

by msell＠ontimesupport.com

If anyone here has a PDP 11 (such as a 44/84/34) or Vax 11/750 or 11/780 for sale, or know someone who does, could you let me know? I checked on a Vax 11/780 for disposal in Ohio but it went to the landfill already. * Sigh * I really appreciate it. Thanks! - Matthew Sell "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...

25 years, 1 month

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FlipChips and data sheets

by tony.eros＠machm.org

I just got back from a trip and found a box of DEC FlipChips in my front hall! There's a fair number of them that appear to be new -- they're in little plastic bags, still stapled shut. Here's what I've counted so far: 1 A704 -10V power supply (double size) 3 B113 unused 3 B200 unused, 1 used 1 B401 1 B405 unused 4 A601 unused 1 A604 unused 1 R002 1 R107 unused, 1 used 4 R111 3 R113 2 R123 unused, 2 used 9 R141 5 R202 5 R203 6 R204 unused, 1 used 1 R302 1 R401 1 R405 1 R601 2 R603 unused 3 R650 1 S111 1 W650 There are also a bunch of "Flip Chip Modules Test Specs" data sheets with specs and schematics on them. I'll scan them and post a URL to the list. -- Tony

25 years, 1 month

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PDP-8e question

by celt＠chisp.net

A local electronics surplus store that I have frequented for years is going out of business next week (sigh). During this week's visit, the proprietor offered me a pallet of 10 'complete, working and loaded' PDP 8e's. When I asked what he wanted for them, his response was the typical 'make me an offer'. I got the feeling that if I passed, they'd end up on ePay. My collection is mostly 80s-era 8-bit micros (Apple, Commodore, etc), and Heathkit test kits; the only piece of DEC-ware I currently have is VAXstation 3100, so I have no idea what the PDPs are worth. If I take these things off his hands, what would be a fair offer? Cosmetically, they seem to be in great shape, and he powered a couple of them up for me (blinkenlights and such). I opened several of them up, and they were all filled with various cards. Space considerations probably will only allow me to keep two or three; I'll offer the rest here - whatever doesn't get claimed will be put on ePay. - Mike

25 years, 1 month

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Converting TTL monitor to Analog ( Screen Flicker)(Human visu al response OT)

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

Actually the human visual response in variable depending on what part of the field of vision is used. I can and many people can see flicker using your peripheral vision. Pointing your head away from the screen about 60 degrees and looking at the screen from the corner of you eye you can commonly see flicker. Rods and cones in you eye respond differently to color, flicker, and light levels. There are whole books on human visual response and lots of study of the field when looking at Radiological images. The new "hot topic" is Radiology is "soft-copy" reading of medical images, skip the film use a computer monitor. The problem is that clinical quality monitors cost $10,000-$20,000. Everybody want consumer grade monitors with the associated low cost. Brightness variability across the screen is routinely 25%. Examining images for lung cancer nodules or mammography lesions are examples. There is a huge equation that lists visual response which is tied to brightness, apparent contrast, wavelength, and size. Lots of human response is below the "threshold of awareness". If you can obviously see the lung nodule then your chances of treatment and 5 year longevity are reduced. Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

25 years, 1 month

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Micro Integration 5250 Gateway

by mikeford＠socal.rr.com

It may be too late for me to get more, but I found a case of Micro Integration 5250 Gateway products, looks like an ISA card and software for a PC to talk to a twinax AS400 system. I have a couple, may be able to dig out more, any interest? ************ Note the correction the company is Micro Integration, and I will dig and see if I can get a few more since there seems to be some interest. The boxes contain an ISA card, software, and a short adapter to TwinAx from something like a RJ45 I think. Some mental blur exists.

25 years, 1 month

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'Machine that Changed the World'

by brian.roth＠firstniagarabank.com

John, This is actually where I started my search. This has now become a quest for me. I did get a response from someone on the list who said they had the whole series on one tape but I haven't heard back from him. A friend of mine who besides being a VMS guru does audio/video editing, said his father had connections at a local PBS station and he would see what he could find for me. If I do find it, I will definitely make it available to the list. Brian. John Allain wrote: While refusing to believe that the video tape of this is unavailable, I Still couldn't find one for retail. I did however just find this, which you might like: The Machine That Changed the World http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/TMTCTW.html John A. Brian Roth Network Services First Niagara Bank (716) 625-7500 X2186 Brian.Roth(a)FirstNiagaraBank.com

25 years, 1 month

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Converting TTL monitor to Analog

by Lee.Davison＠merlincommunications.com

What sort of digital interface would such devices use? They'd have to have lots of wires, e.g. 26 or so pairs, if the thing is using 24-bit color. Perish the thought someone would use more color depth than that! It's hard to imagine they'd do that. The number of wires that have to transport high-frequency signal is the reason the analog is still so difficult to surpass. Not if a serial video bitstream were used. It's actually easier to use this than an analogue feed over any significant distance. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses, by Star Internet, delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. For further information visit: http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp

25 years, 1 month

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Converting TTL monitor to Analog

by Lee.Davison＠merlincommunications.com

>> which defines where you can display pixels. If you attempt to display more >> pixels on a line than there are holes in the mask, then you will get >> banding artifacts. > > I've seen no evidence of this. If this were the case, then the fact that many > display systems use inexpensive 1000 ppm oscillators would cause enough > variation that it would be obvious on those monitors having this feature. I have, many times. It's not so visible on modern monitors but is clearly visible on domestic receivers when a frequency graticule is displayed. It's sometimes refered to as Moire effect. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses, by Star Internet, delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. For further information visit: http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp

25 years, 1 month

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System 36 Rescue?

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

Its cousin is *not* the AS/400... the AS/400 and System/38 are cousins, not the S/36... The S/36 is, to quote IBM, "an enhanced S/34 instruction processor with up to 7MB of main storage." It is a damn nifty, bulletproof box though, I own 3 of them and parts of at least 3 others.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

25 years, 1 month

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Free stuff, Round 2

by r_beaudry＠hotmail.com

Hello all, After the success of my first batch of goodies, I have unearthed the following, and offer it up, free, but you pay shipping. I realize on some of these items it may only be a couple of bucks, but multiply that times the number of items, and it comes out to a number I don't want to pay :-). The drill is, they go to the first taker, then I will calculate shipping, and you can pay by Money Order (International Money Order in US $ for overseas), or PayPal. I will ship to any address that the US Postal Service will ship to... Some of this stuff is not quite 10+ years old, but it is at least computer-related... Also, reply to me OFF-LIST, so as not to clog the list, and since I get the digest, I wouldn't see your replies until sometime tomorrow... Without further ado: Books - Zilog Z8 Microcontrollers User's Manual - Zilog Discrete Z8 Microcontrollers Product Specifications Databook - The C Programming Language (yes, it's K&R!) - A Postscript Cookbook (author: Barry Thomas) - Radio Shack: Understanding Solid-State Electronics - Microprocessor Programming for Computer Hobbyists (All examples written in a language based on PL/M) - Motorola MC68307 User's Manual - Motorola MC68HC705K1 Technical Data - Motorola MC68HC705J1A Technical Data - Motorola MC68HC705P9 Technical Data (2 copies) - Motorola MC68HC705C8 Technical Data - Making CP/M-80 Work for You (mostly a user's guide, no programming info) - Seagate Wren 7 ST41200N (94601-12G) Product Manual - Digital Microcomputer Processors 1978-1979 (covers LSI-11 and PDP-11) - Digital Microcomputer Interfaces handbook 1980 - Introduction to the PDP-11 and it's Assembly Language (Author: Thomas S. Frank) - Marshall McLuhan "War and Peace in the Global Village" (Wired reprint) - Marshall McLuhan "The Medium is the Massage" (Wired reprint) - Radio Shack: Building Power Supplies - Michael Abrash "Zen of Code Optimization" - Java Threads (O'Reilly -- older, covers Java 1.0.2, but applicable to 1.1) - Java Beans (O'Reilly -- older, covers 1.1) - Java Network Programming (O'Reilly -- older, covers 1.1) Hardware - Tandy Portable Computer Acoustic Coupler 2 (Cat. No. 26-3818) - Tandy (I think) cable -- 8 pin DIN to two modular phone plugs - Compaq memory board, "32-bit 6-socket memory expansion board". Proprietary slot, 4 of the 6 sockets filled. Silkscreen says "spare No. 116803-001", and "diagram no. 001377", and "assembly no 001376". Back is silk-screened "Board no. 001378-001 A/W Rev E Fab Rev E"

25 years, 1 month

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NEC Color Graphics Board for early multi-synch

by harryb＠charter.net

I've been reading the various threads with some interest for the past few weeks. I've been working in the field since the mid-80's, but no programming experience, sadly. I have always been an equipment junkie, and something of a packrat. Which leads to this: can someone make use of an early NEC Multisynch Color Graphics Board (GB-1)? It is complete with a daughter board containing a Z80, and the memory appears to be fully populated. Also have the manual and a copy of Dr Halo with manual. Three disks (51/4 naturally) appear to have all the files. It's a full size board, with Tseng processor chips. I'd like to get a few bucks for the lot, to pay for storage, or whatever. Mailing would be from MA. The board has the nine pin connector people here have mentioned, in addition to two "reserved" jacks. Manual is quite complete, with pinouts, etc. The daughterboard is the CMII, which gave the board full Hercules compatibility. Unfortunately, the unit is untested, as I have no equipment available to try it out. Any sale would be as-is. Interesting item, and I bet it was expensive. Also have an Imagraph SCGA6 board with matching cable and manual. Anyone know what this was used with? If I ever knew, have forgotten... Harry

25 years, 1 month

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