- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by avickers＠solutionengineers.com

As I sit here at work, watching a program I have written consume memory at the rate of 100k/sec, it strikes me that a mere 15 years ago, I was writing programs which fit into just 16k of RAM *including* variable space... How times change... I guess I was lucky (?) to miss the really early days when a few hundred bytes were all that was available... Ah, nostalgia! -- Cheers, Ade.

24 years, 10 months

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^X (was: an odd question

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > On Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 08:13:20PM -0600, Mark Green wrote: > > > The CDC Cyber series had many different character sets, which was a > > > major pain in the ass for anyone maintaining software for them. I > > > spent several years working on the Pascal compiler for the CDC > > > machines (the orignal implementation from ETH). > > > > Ah, back at the U of Minn, we used CDC mainframes for our programming > > classes. I tried using as much lower case as the Pascal books did, > > and that did not make things happy. > > If I remember correctly the compiler was never modified to > handle lower case letters, but I think the run-time support > could handle them. I worked on the run-time part of the > system, and I recall dealing with the various characters sets. > I also put in the ability to call PPU programs from Pacal > programs. This could also be done directly in Pascal, but > required a fair amount of knowldege and several compiler > cheats, so it wasn't recommended (which is why I did it that > way most of the time). The CDC machines were the first ones > that I used that had real parallelism, learned a hell of a > lot the hard way! I was granted access to the source for the CDC BASIC 2.1 compiler, and added ASC() and CHR() to it. I specifically coded it to handle both types of ASCII support that CDC provided- the 76 octal prefix version in which characters that mapped to display code equivalents were 6 bits, and those that didn't map to D.C. got six bits in the form of the 76 prefix and then another six bits specifying the character. The TELEX timesharing subsystem also provided another mode, that was straight ASCII, albeit 8 bits right-justified in a 12-bit byte. You'd prefix a block of data with 4000 octal and then a stream of this type of ASCII; if anything interrupted the stream while being output, TELEX would not realize it was ASCII and would just puke out display code until it saw another 4000 code. All this work was to support a cursor-addressed Star Trek game that needed to run on at least a dozen different terminal types. Regards, -dq

24 years, 10 months

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^X (was: an odd question

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >I may be wrong but didn't the use of Control and a key begin with teletypes >and long before the arrival of computers? I know the control something was >used to ring the bell on the recieving system. Control something else Ding ding ding, you win. ^G rings the bell. However the original question was the notion of "Control and G" keys contracted to CTRL-G (tty nomenclature) to ^G. >generated the DC 1 and DC 2 codes that could be used to switch off and on >special devices on the recieving system. That too. Actually there were some 32 possible control codes, many were used. FYI that PDP-8 was an i version and the console was a tty! Allison

24 years, 10 months

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Telex 1186, Laser 128, and a hello

by glindsey＠ssinc.com

First, I'd like to say hi, as I've just joined this list after researching my old Telex 1186 and coming across archives that were almost exactly two years old. I've always had an affinity for classic systems, so I decided it made a lot of sense to join up, eh? Too bad I didn't realize how much I liked them earlier... I might've been able to stop my parents from junking an old CBM 4032 I used to play with. Anyways, the 1186 in question was the first computer I ever had, bought used for me when I was in third grade or so. A recent bout of nostalgia hit me, and I've been wondering if anyone else has had any luck finding one, or even some pictures of one on the Net... searches for "Telex 1186" only give me the aforementioned ClassicCmp archives, perusing the VCF's links list has proved fruitless, and looking for "MAD Computer" only gets me a bunch of sci-fi links. I would *love* to get one of those in my possession again; it holds a lot of great memories for me. Unfortunately, my dad sold it when we upgraded to a 286. *grumble* If I had known then that it was an 80186 machine, I might've been more inclined to keep it... but probably not, as I was about ten... Finally, would anyone be able to give me a general idea of the rarity of the Laser 128 Apple II clone? The info I've found has led me to believe it's not a particularly rare system... Thanks a lot for any help you might be able to give! I really appreciate it! GSL ***** Gregory S. Lindsey SSI Embedded Systems Programming

24 years, 10 months

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My local Goodwill

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On August 9, Arthur E. Clark wrote: > Well, I checked out my local Goodwill stores. What a waste. When I asked > about old Apples, the computer supervisor said "we refuse those." When I > asked about Sun and DEC, they looked at me like I was speaking an alien > language. A few extremely overpriced 486 & Pentium 75 systems, that's it. Here's an idea. Maybe it would be useful for some of us to leave our contact info with these places, so when they "refuse" decent stuff, they can say "but there's this person here who might be interested..." What do you think? (They refuse (or don't know anything about) the real computers and redistribute the crappy ones. Go figure.) -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD

24 years, 10 months

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My local Goodwill

by LFessen106＠aol.com

In a message dated 8/10/01 12:50:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, foo(a)siconic.com writes: > > Goodwills and Salvation Army's are really only good for old (and cheap) > computer books. > Actually the Salvation Army stores that I have found around PA have been quite good! One can usually find Apple, Tandy, Commodore, and the usual misc PC stuff there. A lot of it is over priced (Commodore 1541 $100???) but there are times when you can find a good deal like the Apple //e I picked up with a color monitor and 2 drives for $9.99.. Never had any luck with Goodwill either. -Linc Fessenden In The Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... Calculating in binary code is as easy as 01,10,11.

24 years, 10 months

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PDP-12s, anyone?

by geoff＠pkworks.com

>I finally found time to start opening up the 3 boxes of DEC docs >that were awaiting me (3 more on the way, the guy tells me), and >found a treasure trove (well, thats what I called it) of PDP-12 >documentation. Looks like a fairly complete set of marketing >brochures, specs and options lists, promotional materials, etc. >All in that nice green color. Even the DEC warranty/service card that >was supposed to be stuck on the back of the machine. Looks like >almost-complete (I havent had time to go through them thoroughly) >sets of users and system manuals as well. > >(this is all formerly from the U. of Arizona Medical Center) > >Once I get this scanned, I'll definitely want these docs to go >somewhere that has a (preferrably operational) PDP-12 and will >give these docs a good home alongside a machine.. > >Also have VR14 manual (Megan, i think this was already marked for >you? I've got multiple copies now) and a VT50 manual. Two more >boxes on my porch to go through, and three more on the way... > >Will completely catalog and post a list on decdocs.org this weekend. > >Bill > >-- >Bill Bradford >mrbill(a)mrbill.net >Austin, TX > The Retro-Computing Society of Rhode Island ( www.osfn.org/rcs ) has an operational PDP-12 - it was running Spacewar at the Vintage Computer Festival East 1.0 a couple of week ago - and we'd be delighted to make a home for those docs. I've copied this message to Mike Umbricht mikeu(a)shrimp.osfn.org ) and Carl Friend ( mikeu(a)shrimp.osfn.org ) of the RCS/RI, as they are the folks there most intimately involved with the PDP-12. For scanning the docs, consider Al Kossow's Bitsavers Project ( aek(a)spies.com , www.spies.com/~aek ), wherein he is scanning all manner of computer documentation to preserve it. If you are interested, I can coordinate the finding of the new home at the RCS/RI with scanning through Bitsavers, having done so for other things in the past.

24 years, 10 months

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DOS for S-100?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > >There was a Zenith MS-DOS 3.31+ that ran on the Z-150/Z-151; > > > >I can probably scare it up... > > > > > > Thanks for the offer but the 150 and higher models are completely > > > different machines from the Z-100. They use the ISA buss and are 100% IBM > > > compatible so the OS is basicly PC DOS. > > > > They're not *quite* 100% IBM compatible, e.g. power supply, and non- > > Zenith keyboard use eventually causes the CPU board to no longer > > recognize a Zenith keyboard. > > Eventually? I don't really know anything about these systems, but it seems > strange that something like that would happen only after a while of such > use. Maybe it draws more power and eventually burns out components? Please > elaborate. :-) Hey, I'm a programmer, that's a hardware question, ask Tony... Seriously, I don't know, I assumed precisely what you suggest. -dq

24 years, 10 months

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VAX - DRV11 Problem

by erice＠CAE.COM

Hi, I am working on a CF-18 simulator which is based on a VAX (No need to mention that the sim is old!). I am developing some hardware to allow some automatic testing of MC (mission Computer) OFP (Operational Flight Program) software. Anyway, I am working with a DRV11 card (DMA interface for the VAX), to communicate to an FPGA (APEX20K) board which I have built. The setup is shown below. |------------------| |-----------------------| |-----------------------| | Keypad | | | | | | & |--------------------------------------| My board |-----------------------| Serial | | display | | | | Controller | |------------------| |-----------------------| |-----------------------| | | | |-----------------------| | | | VAX | | | |-----------------------| Normally the keypad and display would be connected directly, but now I can contol the data via my board. What the board does depends on the VAX commands sent to it. This way, the board can become transparent, pump data in 1 direction or the other, or just plain monitor the data. The vax can then validate that everything that is supposed to happen does, and it will become possible to write scripts to press buttons on the keypad rather than having someone push the actual button! Anyway, my problem is with the DRV11 card. (Actually I am using a DRV1-SF) I have taken the DEC supplied example driver for this card and modified it for my needs. (this works fine... I think!) The problem is that if I send several QIO calls back to back, there is a huge amount of time between the DMA transfers. What makes this even wierder, is that the delay between transfers seems to follow a pattern as follows: -- xfer data -- wait 200 us -- xfer data -- wait 1 ms -- xfer data -- wait 200 us -- xfer data -- wait 1 ms --xfer data -- wait 200 us -- ... Another quirk I seem to have is that if I pulse the ATTN line at some random time, I enter the ISR and everything runs smoothly. However, if I pulse the ATTN line just after a transfer ( within a few micro seconds) I enter the ISR for the completion interrupt, but I seem to miss the interrupt from the ATTN line if the transfer was smaller than 3 words!! I have no idea why it works for larger transfers and not for small transfers... Further if I examine the saved CSR value after an ATTN pulse was sent, I should see th ATTN bit latched, but it is not! can anyone explain this? I tried 2 cards and they both do the same thing. Anyway, any help at all would be appreciated... Eric Everton Avionics Simulation Specialist Dept. 49 Eric.Everton(a)cae.com (450) 476-4484

24 years, 10 months

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^X (was: an odd question

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> -kb, the Kent who also once opened a comment before column 76 and > didn't close another comment before column 76 for many lines, causing > the intervening lines to be silently dropped. > > > P.S. Circa 1980 we even did one assignment on a punch card machine. > The physical reader was a relatively svelt machine (at least compared > to the central beasts we students could not touch), and it talked to > an impressive looking, floppy-equipped PDP-11/34, bootstrapped via the > front panel and everything. (Did they call the whole thing a Remote > Job Entry Station?) What *was* that record separator card? A 6-7-8 > overpunch? What was the job separator card?? On the Cybers, 6/7/8 was EOR (end-of-record), and 6/7/8/9 was EOI (end-of-information). I suppose that's what you mean by "job separator"). -dq

24 years, 10 months

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My local Goodwill

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 8/10/01 12:59:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, foo(a)siconic.com writes: << On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Tom Owad wrote: > About three years ago I got a really nice TI-99/4a with the expansion > box and several boxes of books, software, and accessories at the > Goodwill in York for around $30, but that was all I ever got there. > > The Salvation Army in York used to get Apple and 8 bit micro stuff > pretty regularly, but now have absolutely nothing worth looking at. > > There are two Goodwills in Harrisburg that I've been to (both only > once). > One was pretty poor, but the other might be worth looking at as they > had a good shelf of computer books and manuals. (I wish I could > remember which store was which.) In my experience, the only thrift stores worth going to for hardware are the chains, like Thrift Town, Thrift Center, etc. At least that is the case here in California and also in Raleigh, NC, where I spent a lot of time a couple years ago. Sellam Ismail >> Unfortunately, here in raleigh, things have pretty much dried up as well. I remember I used to find neat stuff, like my PCRT and platinum apple //e system. I did find an atari 1200xl in the box some time ago that I hid, and was going to get later, but somehow someone beat me to it. My latest addition was my IBM S/36 pc and 5150 controller but that was in the spring. Even my favourite IBM PS/2s are getting hard to find. -- DB Young Team OS/2 old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: www.nothingtodo.org

24 years, 10 months

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overwhelmed with paper tapes

by pjschilling＠gcstech.net

Bill, I have a tape reader and if you don't mind it taking a little while, I would run those through. I am swamped and may take a couple of weeks to a month to get done. Phil -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bill Bradford Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 2:55 AM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: overwhelmed with paper tapes Couldnt sleep, so I dug into the other two boxes. Looks like a complete doc set for at least one version of RSX-11, more MAINDECs, and lots more paper tapes. I've got at least five full translucent blue trays full of various paper tapes at this point. Anybody out there have a paper tape reader, and would be willing to run these through and produce some kind of binary file that would be usable with various software emulators (or useful to someone who wanted to punch their own copies of these tapes)? I dont want them to languish around in my garage when someone somewhere could be putting them to use. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net Austin, TX

24 years, 10 months

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overwhelmed with paper tapes

by CAA007216＠mail.ono.es

I'd like to work over some of this stuff with the objective you mention, but sadly I haven't (yet) one paper tape reader. Regards Sergio > Anybody out there have a paper tape reader, and would be willing to > run these through and produce some kind of binary file that would be > usable with various software emulators (or useful to someone who > wanted to punch their own copies of these tapes)? I dont want them > to languish around in my garage when someone somewhere could be > puttingthem to use.

24 years, 10 months

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overwhelmed with paper tapes

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

Couldnt sleep, so I dug into the other two boxes. Looks like a complete doc set for at least one version of RSX-11, more MAINDECs, and lots more paper tapes. I've got at least five full translucent blue trays full of various paper tapes at this point. Anybody out there have a paper tape reader, and would be willing to run these through and produce some kind of binary file that would be usable with various software emulators (or useful to someone who wanted to punch their own copies of these tapes)? I dont want them to languish around in my garage when someone somewhere could be putting them to use. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net Austin, TX

24 years, 10 months

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PDP-12s, anyone?

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

I finally found time to start opening up the 3 boxes of DEC docs that were awaiting me (3 more on the way, the guy tells me), and found a treasure trove (well, thats what I called it) of PDP-12 documentation. Looks like a fairly complete set of marketing brochures, specs and options lists, promotional materials, etc. All in that nice green color. Even the DEC warranty/service card that was supposed to be stuck on the back of the machine. Looks like almost-complete (I havent had time to go through them thoroughly) sets of users and system manuals as well. (this is all formerly from the U. of Arizona Medical Center) Once I get this scanned, I'll definitely want these docs to go somewhere that has a (preferrably operational) PDP-12 and will give these docs a good home alongside a machine.. Also have VR14 manual (Megan, i think this was already marked for you? I've got multiple copies now) and a VT50 manual. Two more boxes on my porch to go through, and three more on the way... Will completely catalog and post a list on decdocs.org this weekend. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net Austin, TX

24 years, 10 months

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UC04 configuration

by CAA007216＠mail.ono.es

> If it works in a vax it should work in a PDP. > --Chuck Yes :-) In fact it does (I think). My problem is that I haven't documentation for this board. The docs related with the UC07-08 appears to be useful, but there is a point where I can't advance. The practical object of study is the installation of Unix 2.11BSD into my PDP-11/23 PLUS. The lights in the board tells me that the disk is being accessed by the Unix Installation Program. But, when I tells Unix to install over ra(0,0,0) device, it takes a little time while the lights in the board bright during a few seconds, an finally... nothing: no lights, etc. The device appears that could be addressable and works in the PDP machine, right, but I'm stopped. I believe it could be neeeded to access some kind of formatting program in the rom of the board. I saw how to do it with one UC07-08 in one Vax environment, but I'll very happy if anybody knows how to manage the UC04 in this way. Thanks and Best Regards Sergio

24 years, 10 months

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an odd question

by dtwright＠uiuc.edu

not sure if this is exactly on-topic, but I figure if anyone would know, it would be this bunch... where did the convention of using "^x" to represent "Ctrl-x" come from? I wonder because you see that convention everywhere, but it's totally non-intuitave -- i.e. why does the carat symbol mean "hold control while pressing the following key"? I think this came up because someone pointed out that using pine the first time was really hard until they figured out what "^" meant. so, anyone know where that convention came from? - Dan Wright (dtwright(a)uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan

24 years, 10 months

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an odd question

by lance＠costanzo.net

At 09:25 AM 8/9/01 -0500, John F wrote: >At 09:15 AM 8/9/01 -0500, Messick, Gary wrote: >>I know some of the older software such as MBASIC for CP/M, and maybe even >>earlier stuff, used to OUTPUT a ^C when the user type a Ctrl-C. > >I remember RSTS timesharing systems doing that >even before CP/M. I thought I remembered it from RSTS/E, and maybe even before that with CDC ITS, but things blend together from those days... It may be a pseudo-mathematical symbolism from some programming languages; 3^2 = 9, i.e. you're raising the C key. (You're bluffing, I'll ^ you 10).

24 years, 10 months

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UC04 configuration

by CAA007216＠mail.ono.es

Hello. Somebody knows how to configure one Emulex UC04 (with one SCSI disk of 1GB connected) to work in one PDP-11/23 PLUS ? Thanks in advance. Greetings and Best Regards from Spain Sergio

24 years, 10 months

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Unix Quote (was: Re: building a PDP11 from the things you

by dittman＠dittman.net

> Zane: Yes, it is true that many people think that modern OS's should > follow Unix' path. I'll agree with you in that Unix is not the only > sensible model, and I'll even concede that OpenVMS is another such > model. But you'll have to work to persuade me that DCL is cool. DCL is a very complete command language. There's a lot that can be done directly that require external programs in Unix shells. -- Eric Dittman dittman(a)dittman.net School Zones: Man's attempt to thwart natural selection.

24 years, 10 months

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an odd question

by uban＠ubanproductions.com

The unix shell has used the ^C nomenclature since I can remember, which goes back to version 6 on PDP 11s. --tom > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Wright [mailto:dtwright@uiuc.edu] > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 8:47 AM > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: an odd question > > > not sure if this is exactly on-topic, but I figure if anyone > would know, it > would be this bunch... where did the convention of using > "^x" to represent > "Ctrl-x" come from? I wonder because you see that convention > everywhere, but > it's totally non-intuitave -- i.e. why does the carat symbol > mean "hold control > while pressing the following key"? I think this came up > because someone > pointed out that using pine the first time was really hard > until they figured > out what "^" meant. so, anyone know where that convention came from? > > - Dan Wright > (dtwright(a)uiuc.edu) > (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) > > -] ------------------------------ [-] > -------------------------------- [- > ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with > holy dread, > For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' > Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan >

24 years, 10 months

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LISP machine is GONE

by ip500＠home.com

A semi-local list member snagged it tonight. Going to a good home! Craig

24 years, 10 months

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LISP machine for sale

by ip500＠home.com

Anyone interested in a TI Explorer II machine? It's complete and running .. includes the keyboard [marked as a special LISP model], monitor and two outboard disk drives. Way to heavy to ship at a reasonable price [but it is probably shippable] .. pickup strongly prefered in the Roanoke, VA area. It came as part of a sealed bid lot ..I figure I've got about $100 in it. Craig Smith

24 years, 10 months

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Central Florida Computer Junk Fest !

by ken＠seefried.com

It's a bit of a drive, but I'm in Atlanta. That might be fun. Ken

24 years, 10 months

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What's your coolest ISA card?

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 14:51:02 GMT "Ken Seefried" <ken(a)seefried.com> writes: > A company called Opus made a number of ISA cards with interesting > coprocessors. I used to have an Opus 32000 ISA card, a National > Semi 32016 coprocessor. It unfortunately got tossed out by a careless > girlfriend a decade ago Stoppit! Stoppit! I can't take this anymore!! I'm gonna absolutely *die* if I hear about another 32k system *tossed*! There was another 32k coprocessor effort featured in the Micro Cornucopia in 1986. I *so* wanted one of these, but the project died on the vine . . . > (along with my unbuilt PC532 kit...sigh). AHHHGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

24 years, 10 months

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Unix Quote (was: Re: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home)

by ken＠seefried.com

From: Carlos Murillo <cmurillo(a)emtelsa.multi.net.co> > "He who doesn't comprehend UNIX is destined to redesign it poorly." > Does anybody know the origin of this quote? Henry Spencer. He also said "If you lie to the compiler, it will get its revenge", which I think is pretty funny, too. Oh, yeah...and his 10 Commandments of C Programmers is gospel. Helluva guy. Ken

24 years, 10 months

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What's your coolest ISA card?

by fmc＠reanimators.org

joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote (after someone else): > > > Stoppit! Stoppit! I can't take this anymore!! I'm gonna absolutely *die* > > > if I hear about another 32k system *tossed*! > > Rumor has it that Steve is going to bring his AT&T 3B2s to the junk > fest in Orlando. I think they have 32k CPUs. No, they have Western Electric...umm, 32100? processors. Not National Semi. -Frank McConnell

24 years, 10 months

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DOS for S-100?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> >There was a Zenith MS-DOS 3.31+ that ran on the Z-150/Z-151; > >I can probably scare it up... > > > Thanks for the offer but the 150 and higher models are completely > different machines from the Z-100. They use the ISA buss and are 100% IBM > compatible so the OS is basicly PC DOS. They're not *quite* 100% IBM compatible, e.g. power supply, and non- Zenith keyboard use eventually causes the CPU board to no longer recognize a Zenith keyboard. But that would be picking nits... -dq

24 years, 10 months

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IBM SIMMS question

by csclement＠mediaone.net

p/n 68x6356 is a 32mbsimm that is all i know it isnot 4mb according to where i confirmed

24 years, 10 months

1
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3270 emulation hardware

by red＠bears.org

Hi; I have a few IBM 3270 emulation cards which sport BNC cable attachments. What cabling standard does this describe, and how can I connect it to my existing twinaxial cable plant? ok r.

24 years, 10 months

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DOS for S-100?

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 07:02 PM 8/8/01 -0400, you wrote: > > At 01:10 PM 8/7/01 -0700, you wrote: > > >On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, joe wrote: > > > > FWIW You could get MS-DOS versions 1.25, 2.1(something) and 3.1 >for > > > > the Zenith Z-100. There's also a guy out there that wrote a program to > > > > patch PC-DOS 4.0 to run on the Z-100. > > > > > >Is there a 3.31 available for it? > > > > > > Not that I know of. MS-DOS 3.1 was the highest version that Zenith > > released for it. The PC-DOs 4 is a private effort by John Beyers > > <http://members.home.net/johnbeyers/hz100.htm>. > > > >There was a Zenith MS-DOS 3.31+ that ran on the Z-150/Z-151; >I can probably scare it up... Thanks for the offer but the 150 and higher models are completely different machines from the Z-100. They use the ISA buss and are 100% IBM compatible so the OS is basicly PC DOS. Joe >-dq

24 years, 10 months

2
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an odd question

by kapteynr＠cboe.com

I don't have the detailed history available to me now, but -- didn't WordStar run under CP/M long before MS-DOS was created ? -----Original Message----- From: Master of all that Sucks [SMTP:vance@ikickass.org] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 9:56 AM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: an odd question Well, MS-DOS 1.0 was doing it long before WordStar. Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > on 8/9/01 9:47 AM, Dan Wright at dtwright(a)uiuc.edu wrote: > > not sure if this is exactly on-topic, but I figure if anyone would know, it > > would be this bunch... where did the convention of using "^x" to represent > > "Ctrl-x" come from? I wonder because you see that convention everywhere, but > > it's totally non-intuitave -- i.e. why does the carat symbol mean "hold > > control > > while pressing the following key"? I think this came up because someone > > pointed out that using pine the first time was really hard until they figured > > out what "^" meant. so, anyone know where that convention came from? > > I believe Wordstar used to display the control sequences for cut and > pasting and other block move type commands in that format in it's menus. > I'm almost positive that versions of Worstar I was using on XT-clones in the > mid-80's were like that. At the time, quite a large number of text editors, > including those included with programs such as TurboBasic, used the Wordstar > commands and conventions as well. > > Jeff >

24 years, 10 months

4
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Wanted ASR-33 in Washington DC area

by bills＠adrenaline.com

Since this tactic seems to have worked for Kent Borg in Boston... I'd really like to get an ASR-33 myself, as that was my first encounter with a computer. I've tried a number of hamfests etc. ... no dice. I have a fair collection of "vintage" hardware... I might even consider parting with a few bits of OSI gear. Thanks, Bill Sudbrink

24 years, 10 months

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an odd question

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 09:15 AM 8/9/01 -0500, Messick, Gary wrote: >I know some of the older software such as MBASIC for CP/M, and maybe even >earlier stuff, used to OUTPUT a ^C when the user type a Ctrl-C. I sent a note to Tom Jennings about this. Perhaps he has an answer. For his delightfully detailed history of character sets, visit http://www.wps.com/texts/codes/index.html . - John

24 years, 10 months

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DOS for S-100?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> At 01:10 PM 8/7/01 -0700, you wrote: > >On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, joe wrote: > > > FWIW You could get MS-DOS versions 1.25, 2.1(something) and 3.1 for > > > the Zenith Z-100. There's also a guy out there that wrote a program to > > > patch PC-DOS 4.0 to run on the Z-100. > > > >Is there a 3.31 available for it? > > > Not that I know of. MS-DOS 3.1 was the highest version that Zenith > released for it. The PC-DOs 4 is a private effort by John Beyers > <http://members.home.net/johnbeyers/hz100.htm>. > There was a Zenith MS-DOS 3.31+ that ran on the Z-150/Z-151; I can probably scare it up... -dq

24 years, 10 months

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Now *this* is cool

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, Gunther Schadow wrote: > > > > Re-implementations of PDPs, VAXen or other computers are one thing, > > also new IO modules for old computers are another > interesting use are > > conceivable. > > That's right. For each part, there will come a time when there are no > more original, functioning instances. Our ability to continue the > tradition will then lie in our ability to put something else in their > place. Right, Jeff. And this was a conversation I meant to finish with Tony Duell. I made a remark about the speed I was seeing in a particular simulator of old iron as run on a 233MHz Pentium-1 PC. Tony remarked that he didn't have a machine of the host class (the Pentium-1 PC), so the simulator was therefore not available to him, but that it didn't matter much to him because he prefers the *real* original iron anyway. And that's fine... I too, would love to own a Cyber 172, but even if I ever find one (doubtfull), I wouldn't be able to afford to turn it on even one time. So I wouldn't be able to enjoy it as a *computer*, but rather as an *object* (d'art or whatever). I suppose for someone who didn't have a history with a particular machine, that is, an old beast like a CDC 6600 or similar, that being able to recreate the *software* environment by having a simulator just doesn't mean much. But for mean, it means everything. The operating system and the language translators and utilities were my points of familiarity as a programmer; again, had I been an engineer on one of these systems, having something I could bootstrap might be less important. Now, the FPGA route is even better than a simulator, of course, because it's faster. Also, getting real old peripherals to work with a re- implemented CPU is also promising- in many cases, the FPGA board could be set in open space in old iron and the system be made to appear operational even if not! Oops, time for more coffee... -dq

24 years, 10 months

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an odd question

by Gary.Messick＠itt.com

I think Wordstar pre-dates MS-DOS by more than a few years ;) Gary > -----Original Message----- > From: Master of all that Sucks [mailto:vance@ikickass.org] > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 9:56 AM > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: an odd question > > > > Well, MS-DOS 1.0 was doing it long before WordStar. > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > on 8/9/01 9:47 AM, Dan Wright at dtwright(a)uiuc.edu wrote: > > > not sure if this is exactly on-topic, but I figure if > anyone would know, it > > > would be this bunch... where did the convention of using > "^x" to represent > > > "Ctrl-x" come from? I wonder because you see that > convention everywhere, but > > > it's totally non-intuitave -- i.e. why does the carat > symbol mean "hold > > > control > > > while pressing the following key"? I think this came up > because someone > > > pointed out that using pine the first time was really > hard until they figured > > > out what "^" meant. so, anyone know where that > convention came from? > > > > I believe Wordstar used to display the control > sequences for cut and > > pasting and other block move type commands in that format > in it's menus. > > I'm almost positive that versions of Worstar I was using on > XT-clones in the > > mid-80's were like that. At the time, quite a large number > of text editors, > > including those included with programs such as TurboBasic, > used the Wordstar > > commands and conventions as well. > > > > Jeff > > >

24 years, 10 months

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HP 9000/226

by optimus＠canit.se

Went to the junkyard with a mate today and found (well, stepped on) an ugly HP something. It's a HP 9000 (Yay!) 226 (?h?), which is a clumsy box with a small CRT and a 5?" floppy as well as an integrated keyboard. This unit had been retired from the telemonopoly (well, all the stickers date back to that time), which ad apparently modified it into some kind of luggable workstation by putting a biug brass handle which seems to have come off a door on one side of the unit. Apart from the handle, it has been equipped with an RS-232 interface and additional memory cards, adding up to roughly 1,7 MB. The unit powers up fine, the screen looks nice, but the keyboard has been massacred, with five or six keys missing. But now what? The system is looking for a system. What system does it run, and is software obtainable anywhere? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Computer programmers know how to use their hardware.

24 years, 10 months

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NS32000 & PC532 (was: Re: What's your coolest ISA card?)

by ken＠seefried.com

Very educational thread. Didn't know that BBC had a 32000 coprocessor. I mildly collect old 32000 gear, so if you want to see them go to a good home, let me know. Especially an MG-1 (:-)), although I'd really like to find a Ceres-2 or Ceres-3 (built at ETH Switzerland, used by Niklaus Wirth for a lot of the development of Oberon). Oh, yeah...and another Heurikon VME532 or parts of same would *really* help out a bunch! From: Jeff L Kaneko <jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com> >> (along with my unbuilt PC532 kit...sigh). > AHHHGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! You aren't kindding. It only took me a decade to replace that box (only a few months ago). I'd like to find another one. From: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> > I still have one of these Opus cards. What's it worth?? Do you still have the software? From: Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com> > No, but I've got an 32016 S-100 CPU board :) Ouch! That fired a long dormant brain cell. I remember that board. From: "Iggy Drougge" <optimus(a)canit.se> > All right, let's educate the ignorant; what exactly is a PC532? It's a completely public domain computer design done by two NS engineers, George Scolaro and Dave Rand, in the late '80s. 25MHz 32532 processor (MMU built in), 32381 FPU, 8 serial ports, 2 scsi busses, expansion bus. They published the complete hardware & software specs, and put together a few hundred kits and sold them to folks to build (a la Heathkit). I saved a bunch of pennies to buy mine. It orignally ran a port of Minix, but many of the survivors now run NetBSD. A Google search will turn up what little info survives. Ken

24 years, 10 months

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Central Florida Computer Junk Fest !

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

Load 'em up. I've probably got a whole truckload of stuff looking for an new home and I don't expect to haul ANY of it home. Once I get it sorted out, I'll send a list of what's available. Let us know what kinda stuff your interested in and you might get lucky. I'm primarily interested in HP minicomputers, STD BUS systems, and Z80 development thingys. We haven't decided on a place or time yet. Obviously, we'd like to accomodate as many local collectors as possible. SteveRob >From: "Mike" <dogas(a)bellsouth.net> >Reply-To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: Central Florida Computer Junk Fest ! >Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 10:59:08 -0400 > > > From Joe: > > Steve Robertson said "Why don't you send out an invitation to the > > "Central Florida Computer Junk Fest". > > > >Hey, this is close enough for me to pack up a carload of 8-bitters too if >anyone wants some... > >;) >- Mike: dogas(a)bellsouth.net > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

24 years, 10 months

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an odd question

by Gary.Messick＠itt.com

I know some of the older software such as MBASIC for CP/M, and maybe even earlier stuff, used to OUTPUT a ^C when the user type a Ctrl-C. Gary > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Wright [mailto:dtwright@uiuc.edu] > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 8:47 AM > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: an odd question > > > not sure if this is exactly on-topic, but I figure if anyone > would know, it > would be this bunch... where did the convention of using > "^x" to represent > "Ctrl-x" come from? I wonder because you see that convention > everywhere, but > it's totally non-intuitave -- i.e. why does the carat symbol > mean "hold control > while pressing the following key"? I think this came up > because someone > pointed out that using pine the first time was really hard > until they figured > out what "^" meant. so, anyone know where that convention came from? > > - Dan Wright > (dtwright(a)uiuc.edu) > (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) > > -] ------------------------------ [-] > -------------------------------- [- > ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with > holy dread, > For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' > Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan >

24 years, 10 months

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an odd question

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 09:15 AM 8/9/01 -0500, Messick, Gary wrote: >I know some of the older software such as MBASIC for CP/M, and maybe even >earlier stuff, used to OUTPUT a ^C when the user type a Ctrl-C. I remember RSTS timesharing systems doing that even before CP/M. - John

24 years, 10 months

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Central Florida Computer Junk Fest !

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

Louis, Since it's in Joe's backyard, I'll let him pick the location. This time of year a parking lot is probably not the best choice. I'm thinking maybe a public park or at the very least a place with some shade! Not sure but, I gotta feeling the folks at Skycraft would take exception to us posting flyers there. SteveRob >From: "Louis Schulman" <louiss(a)gate.net> >Reply-To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >To: "classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>, "Steve >Robertson" <steven_j_robertson(a)hotmail.com> >Subject: Re: Central Florida Computer Junk Fest ! >Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 18:46:59 -0400 (EDT) > >Hi Steve, > >The Wife says: Great idea! Go on the 8th! How many tables do you >want??? > >May I suggest, that to promote more buyers to make the trip, we keep >the Saturday time and pick a location somewhere near Skycraft >Electronics? Maybe even get some flyers over there? For those of you >who don't know, Skycraft in Orlando is one of the last old-time amazing >electronics surplus stores. A real tourist destination for electronics >junkies. > >Louis > >On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 13:45:56 -0400, Steve Robertson wrote: > >#Louis, ># >#Welcome aboard. ># >#Joe's and several other collectors are in Orlando. I live in the Ft. >#Lauderdale area but will be in Orlando that weekend. Once we get a >little >#feedback, we'll set a time and place. ># >#Is Saturday September 8th OK for you? ># >#Steverob ># ># >#>From: "Louis Schulman" <louiss(a)gate.net> >#>Reply-To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >#>To: "classiccmp-classiccmp.org" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>, >"joe" >#><rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> >#>CC: "Glenatacme-aol.com" <Glenatacme(a)aol.com>, >#>"musicman38-mindspring.com" <musicman38(a)mindspring.com> >#>Subject: Re: Central Florida Computer Junk Fest ! >#>Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 13:25:03 -0400 (EDT) >#> >#>Hey! I am in Tampa! My wife says: You have way too much computer >#>junk! Get rid of it! >#> >#>So, count me in! You guys are in Orlando? >#> >#>Louis Schulman >#> >#>On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 09:15:11 -0400, joe wrote: >#> >#># >#># Steve Robertson said "Why don't you send out an invitation to >the >#>#"Central Florida Computer Junk Fest". ># ># >#_________________________________________________________________ >#Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ># > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

24 years, 11 months

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ST Microelectronics

by Alan.Pearson＠cramersystems.com

> The same French/Italian company that bought INMOS and the > transputer. They now build the ST6 range of > microcontrollers The ST20 range (now dead?) was basically the transputer core minus the links. I don't know how long they kept that range going though, at the time that I left (mid 96) the T450 had been renamed ST20450 and was being used in a set-top box. I forget who the box was for though :-/ It's probably fair to say that the ST20450 was the last of the "real" transputers, by the time it was released to market the T9000 was still under development (did it *ever* make it out the door as a product?). I'm not sure it if was that widely used - it wasn't exactly promoted with a fanfare :-) I got the impression that ST didn't really want the ST20 though, it didn't sit well with their other microcontrollers and they were more interested in developing graphics chips at ST Bristol by the time I left. Shame. --al

24 years, 11 months

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Two NICs in one machine - how?

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

Curious if any ethernet experts are out there - I finally got my PS/2 9595-OPT server out of storage and built with WinNT4.0 and originally wanted to put two NICs in - one is a 3Com 3C523 with AUI/Coax and the other is a 3C529TP with AUI/RJ45 - both ethernet though. NT finds thema nd seems to agree with them and I am able to give each a TCP/IP address but the network never comes up. If I pull the 523 (or even the 529) it does. Where's the conflict coming from? What's the easiest way to correct this? I've had token ring and ethernet in at the same time int he past fine but the problem seems to be due to the same type of network topology being duplicated.

24 years, 11 months

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Two NICs in one machine - how?

by technos＠nerdland.org

I dealt with a similar prob.. Came down to both cards were factory set to hard IO/IRQ assignment. Just grab the 3Com config tools, set them to 0x280 and 0x300 IRQ 10 and 11(or whatever you have free). Mine were both 529 tho.. Jim On Wednesday, August 08, 2001 6:26 PM, Russ Blakeman [SMTP:rhblake@bigfoot.com] wrote: > Curious if any ethernet experts are out there - I finally got my PS/2 > 9595-OPT server out of storage and built with WinNT4.0 and originally > wanted > to put two NICs in - one is a 3Com 3C523 with AUI/Coax and the other > is a > 3C529TP with AUI/RJ45 - both ethernet though. NT finds thema nd seems > to > agree with them and I am able to give each a TCP/IP address but the > network > never comes up. If I pull the 523 (or even the 529) it does. Where's > the > conflict coming from? What's the easiest way to correct this? I've had > token > ring and ethernet in at the same time int he past fine but the problem > seems > to be due to the same type of network topology being duplicated. > << File: ATT00001.html >>

24 years, 11 months

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PDP-11 assembly language reference

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> To: R. D. Davis <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >R. D. Davis skrev: > >>Several years ago, I began writing an assembly language reference >>manual for PDP-11 computers that was modeled after notes from a VAX >>assembly language class that I took. A few minutes ago, I discovered >>it amongst other files in my PDP-11 files archive and an idea crossed >>my mind: it's not doing anyone any good just sitting there on one of >>my systems' hard drives, so, if anyone's interested in it, or >>interested in completing it, let me know. > >By all means, release it. > >I like your "licence", BTW. ^_- The first really interesting thing to _not_ get deleted in weeks on the list. Allison

24 years, 11 months

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Two NICs in one machine - how?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 8/8/01 6:50:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, zmerch(a)30below.com writes: << Rumor has it that Russ Blakeman may have mentioned these words: >>>> Curious if any ethernet experts are out there - I finally got my PS/2 9595-OPT server out of storage and built with WinNT4.0 and originally wanted to put two NICs in - one is a 3Com 3C523 with AUI/Coax and the other is a 3C529TP with AUI/RJ45 - both ethernet though. NT finds thema nd seems to agree with them and I am able to give each a TCP/IP address but the network never comes up. If I pull the 523 (or even the 529) it does. Where's the conflict coming from? What's the easiest way to correct this? I've had token ring and ethernet in at the same time int he past fine but the problem seems to be due to the same type of network topology being duplicated. <<<< As they're both 3Com nic's my guess would be is that they're trying to grab the same IRQ (and/or DMA if they use DMA) and there's IRQ conficts with both of them in the machine. The only thing I can think of is if you have some DOS-based 3Com NIC setup software, boot the box with a dos boot disk with 1 of the NICs in the machine, and configure the card to use a different IRQ (like, say, IRQ 5 if you only have one printer port) then shutdown, insert the 2nd card & see if it boots OK. >> we're talking microchannel here, so the machine will have whatever settings it needs to configure the NICs from the.adf files it loads in. To verify, boot into the IML partition and choose the option to view configuration. If there's a splat (*) beside any of the resources listed for the NICs, there is indeed a resource conflict. that can be changed by choosing the option to change configuration and seeing if there are relevant options to choose. you got NT service pack 3 or higher installed? -- DB Young Team OS/2 old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: www.nothingtodo.org

24 years, 11 months

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ASR-33

by kentborg＠borg.org

Anyone know where I might find an ASR-33 Teletype (good condition, reasonable price, etc.) in the Boston area? -kb, the Kent who started out on an ASR-33.

24 years, 11 months

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PDP-11 assembly language reference

by rdd＠smart.net

Several years ago, I began writing an assembly language reference manual for PDP-11 computers that was modeled after notes from a VAX assembly language class that I took. A few minutes ago, I discovered it amongst other files in my PDP-11 files archive and an idea crossed my mind: it's not doing anyone any good just sitting there on one of my systems' hard drives, so, if anyone's interested in it, or interested in completing it, let me know. I wrote it for processing by IDOCS Mint on a PERQ, which I've heard is similar to Scribe; anyone who's familiar with writing documents in LaTeX should have no trouble re-writing it in LaTeX. There's one condition to my releasing it: anyone who wants to revise it must do so in LaTeX on something other than a system running software from Microsoft. So, needless to say, you can't use Mickeysoft Wurd for this, or a system running MS-Windows. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd(a)rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.

24 years, 11 months

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