- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Aug 22, 9:18, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > BASF also made a 2/3 height floppy (could get 3 into a double bay). It > was the first 5.25" drive smaller than "full height" that I saw. It also > was the first one that I saw that had a D.O.A. failure rate of more than > 50%. The door on it was not very obvious - you push on the door and then > let it pop open. I recommend pushing on that door with a very large > mallet. I remember those -- the RML380Z used them. Canon also made a 2/3 drive -- a 40/80 switchable, and a rather better device than the BASF. I've got one here, with some extra switches so it can emulate the peculiarities of an RX50. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 10 months

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Inquiry into Wang Computers

by LennyT＠aol.com

I have a question on Speed language on a Wang computer???? Len Turnbull

24 years, 10 months

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Apple II software, system discs, blank disks? Help!!

by CELang＠worldnet.att.net

Shaun, If this is a ][ or a ][+, I can help. Assuming, of course, I can locate my blank 5.25 disks. I *think* I have some left. Frankly, I lack the experience with the "c", "e", and "gs" to know if this stuff will work with them. Please let me know what flavor of Apple you've got. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Shaun Stephenson <marino13(a)btinternet.com> To: Classic Computers List <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Thursday, August 23, 2001 4:24 AM Subject: Apple II software, system discs, blank disks? Help!! >I just aquired an Apple II but havent got any software. Does anyone have >any discs they could lend/copy for me (just thinking of old games, PD >stuff, whatever), or know of a good source? Also I need some system >discs desperately... again can anyone help me out on this? Finally, does >anyone know a good source of 5 1/4" blank discs? > >Ta! >Shaun > > >

24 years, 10 months

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SS1 ethernet MAC address...

by cmcmanis＠netapp.com

>FWIW I haven't been able to determine any significant relationship between >the serial number of the machine and its hostid, or even between the >latter and the barcode on top of the NVRAM itself. The hostid does however indicate processor type and some versions of solaris will try to guess what packages you want based on the architecture. --Chuck

24 years, 10 months

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Fwd: Re: Room for Collections

by msell＠ontimesupport.com

>Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:42:55 -0500 >To: Master of all that Sucks <vance(a)ikickass.org> >From: Matthew Sell <msell(a)ontimesupport.com> >Subject: Re: Room for Collections > > >Although technically you are correct - I consider anything that weighs >over 1000 lbs, takes a kilowatt or two to operate, and more than oner >person to move - as a mainframe. > >It's big and made of steel. Big iron? : ) > > >As a discussion - what technically makes the difference between a >mainframe and a mini? Are there physical comparisons to be made or performance? > > > - Matt > > > >At 03:32 PM 8/21/01 -0400, you wrote: >>On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Matthew Sell wrote: >> >> > My wife feels lucky that she is able to contain my mainframes (now 2 VAX >> > 11/780's) to one room in the house. >> >>A VAX 11/780 isn't a mainframe. My IBM S/390 9672 G5's CPU (OT, >>incidentally) takes up two seven foot tall racks all by itself. A fully >>outfitted S/390 9672 G1 (on-topic, bipolar logic, water cooled, loads o' >>power) CPU alone takes up between 7 and 10 seven foot tall racks all by >>itself, in a typical configuration. IfA VAX 11/780 is a minicomputer. >> >> > I also collect full-size arcade games. >> >>I wish I could. My VAXen and my mainframes take up too much time money >>power and space. >> >> > I never accused her of being intolerant to my hobbies.... : ) >> > >> > >> > - Matt > > >"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad >"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > >Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...

24 years, 10 months

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Apple II software, system discs, blank disks? Help!!

by r_beaudry＠hotmail.com

>Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:47:18 +0100 >From: Shaun Stephenson <marino13(a)btinternet.com> >Subject: Apple II software, system discs, blank disks? Help!! >I just acquired an Apple II but haven't got any software. Shaun, and anyone else looking, I recently acquired a decent stash of Apple II stuff, including a IIc+, and lots of software. I have a DOS 3.3 Master Disk, and a ProDOS User's Disk for the IIe (not sure of the exact ProDOS version, but I can check). I also have AppleWriter II, a few games, and other misc. software. Contact me off-list, and we can work out the details. As to a source of 5.25" disks, I hate to mention it, but eBay is actually good for this. Bargains can actually be had... Rich B.

24 years, 10 months

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Room for Collections

by r_beaudry＠hotmail.com

James Rice <jrice(a)texoma.net> said: >Does anyone else keep their collection set up and functioning? Partially :-( I have room for a single rack, a small workbench to fix stuff, a small workbench to build stuff, and a few tables for the computer of the week, which rotates often. I also have some space in the garage to smoke test new stuff, and organize/clean it before it enters the house. >Does your SO understand? Partially :-) See below >I've told my wife she is kind of lucky. At least I don't collect mainframes. HEY! That's MY excuse! I always claim she's lucky I don't need 3-phase power and permanent air conditioning to run my stuff. She just shrugs, smiles, and walks away... I just moved into a new house a few months ago, and I now have a finished basement to set some stuff up. I also have been granted permission to the loft above the 2-car garage. Now all I have to do is run power, and make a few windows, and I'm golden :-) Right now it's storage for the collection that doesn't fit in the basement. Once I get it fixed up, it'll be a neat space... Rich B.

24 years, 10 months

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Need capacitor value translated

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

Ok you people that use this everyday - I have a ceramic disk capacitor from a power supply that went south - brown and cracked. I can read the etched value on it though but it's been a long time since I've seen this type of marking. It has as follows: (first line unreadable, looks like MDE) 2200M X7B or X78 1KV I see it as 1 kilovolt, that's obvious but I've been using the new system that is in picofarads and not sure if that is supposed to mean 2200 uF or if it is some old way of marking 2200 pF. Also what would be the current marking number system equivelant (ie 222, 224, etc) for replacement. Most of my "junk box" parts are new system markings and I am not in the mood for a fire or replacement of other items if I get it wrong. When put on a cap tester I get 100pf which I feel is wrong and may be due to a shorted state or something. Capacitors have never been my strong point in identification.

24 years, 10 months

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SS1 ethernet MAC address...

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On August 22, Gene Buckle wrote: > I've got an SS1 with a dead NVRAM chip. From the FAQs I've read, it's > trivial to set the MAC address after the chip dies and it's set to > FF:FF:FF:FF:FF:FF. Providing I use the Sun "standard" of 08:00:20 as the > first three bytes of the MAC address, is there any real issue with me > choosing a random value for the last three bytes? Alternately, if I call Real issues? No. I do it all the time. > Sun and give them the serial number of the machine, can they provide me > with it's original MAC address? Probably not...but I wouldn't bother in any case. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD

24 years, 10 months

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Apple II software, system discs, blank disks? Help!!

by marino13＠btinternet.com

I just aquired an Apple II but havent got any software. Does anyone have any discs they could lend/copy for me (just thinking of old games, PD stuff, whatever), or know of a good source? Also I need some system discs desperately... again can anyone help me out on this? Finally, does anyone know a good source of 5 1/4" blank discs? Ta! Shaun

24 years, 10 months

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A Modest Proposal (NOTICE FROM THE LIST HOST)

by ken＠seefried.com

It would be a shame to impose the burden of moderation, especially when you could probably remove 95% of the noise on the list with a few simple steps: 1) Ban discussion of eBay. Much like deciding who was the best athlete of all time, continued arguing is unlikely to change anyones opinion. ;-) 2) Remove our friendly (sic) neighborhood troll from the list. I don't think I need to name names, or initials for that matter. It has to be a troll. He has produced a remarkably consistent stream of unabashed ignorance, xenophobia, condescension, and complete contempt for anyone who has the audacity to hold a dissenting opinion, no matter how well founded, supported or sane the dissention might be. Such people are usually only found on lists devoted to abortion or gun control or similar wastelands. Clearly, this is someone getting their jollies from the negative reactions of others, like a flasher. He's had his fun. It's time to get back to computers. 3) Remind anyone else who decides to drag the list through their own intellectual cesspool, that trolling and personal vendettas are not what the list is for. There are plenty of other platforms if you need to grandstand. 4) Counsel the small handful of folks lacking the maturity to ignore the kind of chum the above (and, vastly less often, others) spills on the list that unless they curb their predilection for knee-jerk responses to any and all real or perceived insult, that they, too, can be removed. 5) Gently remind those who go off in the weeds to wander back to the herd. The vast majority will take the hint. That's just my opinion...I could be wrong... Ken

24 years, 10 months

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Pet

by jason.roger＠sghambros.com

Does anyone have a commodore pet for sale. ************************************************************************************************* This email and any attachments are confidential. They may contain privileged information and are intended for the named addressee(s) only. They must not be distributed without our consent. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately and do not disclose, distribute, or retain this email or any part of it. Unless expressly stated, opinions in this email are those of the individual sender, and not of SG Hambros Bank & Trust Group. We believe but do not warrant that this e-mail and any attachments are virus free. You must therefore take full responsibility for virus checking. Societe Generale and its subsidiaries reserve the right to monitor all email communications through their networks. ************************************************************************************************

24 years, 10 months

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LIST OT RESOLUTION

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

Thanks Jay :-) SteveRob >From: "Jay West" <jlwest(a)tseinc.com> >Reply-To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >Subject: LIST OT RESOLUTION >Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:36:03 -0500 > >Okay, I'm sure some won't like it but here's my response: > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

24 years, 10 months

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LIST OT RESOLUTION

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

Okay, I'm sure some won't like it but here's my response: Let me say that I have never considered myself the "owner" of this list, just the host. I'm not hinting that I won't "take the bull by the horns", in fact I will. But that is why I've been slow to handle this issue (read: not feeling 'authorized' to deal with it as I see fit). I like to believe the list isn't "owned", it's everyones - obviously that mentality isn't working as of late. I read all the messages with regards to moderating the list. I also think that is a great idea. However, I'm glad that several posters noted the fact that doing so would put more burden on me time-wise when in fact the (utopian) solution is to approach this from the bottom-up, rather than the top-down (ie. people need to be responsible for their own actions). It is with much distaste that I see even my request for keeping things on topic turned into a thread that is exactly the type of thing I was complaining about. Two people (you know who you are) just don't seem to be able to act like adults and excercise one iota of decorum - being instead more concerned with "one-upmanship". I have received a flood of messages demanding the most extreme of actions to deal with both of them. Probably much to everyone's dismay I'm not going to take that particular action today, but only because it would be unfair to do that now given the solution I am going to put into effect. I will start working on an updated FAQ for the list over the weekend, and post it to the list when I'm done. I will also post it to the list monthly, as well as posting it as a gentle reminder (with the subject of the offending diatribe) when things start getting "out of hand". Yes, this makes me feel like a censor, but at this point - so be it. In the FAQ will be an unambiguous, objective, strictly enforced set of guidelines for someone getting unsubscribed from the list. I will take advice from all the recent postings to the list as to what these criteria should be, and strive to mold them into something that is far from subjective. To those who feel that extreme repeated obscenity, personal attacks, or inflamatory off-topic rhetoric is acceptable - take this as your notice; it will not be tolerated anymore, you will be unsubscribed if it continues. Lastly - I ask that THIS post not turn into a long discussion on the list either. If you want to send me suggestions as to what should go into the FAQ (not only as to the unsubscribing criteria but just helpfull information) please send that to me in private email. I'd love as much input as possible. If you want to send your sentiments of agreement and thanks, that is also welcome - in private email. If you feel my handling of this issue is inane and want to rant or attack me personally - you're entitled to that, but please just send it to me in private email. Regards, Jay West

24 years, 10 months

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NOTICE FROM THE LIST HOST -- a vote in favor of limited moderation

by mjsnodgr＠rockwellcollins.com

I'd have to agree wholeheartedly. After being gone for a couple days, I've read 5 of the several hundred (mostly OT) classiccmp e-mails, the rest are immediately deleted. I like the list, but due to the sheer volume of OT riff-raff, I"ve been trying to switch to digest mode so I can get a little more work done. Hmmm... So if we became a 95% on topic list... I could still recieve all the wonderfully classic (legitimate) mail throughout the day, and not have to weed through religion (cars) and politics. I like it Mr. Mayor, I like it. - M.S. Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org>@classiccmp.org on 08/22/2001 11:51:07 AM Please respond to classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Sent by: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org cc: Subject: Re: NOTICE FROM THE LIST HOST -- a vote in favor of limited moderation Hear, hear!!!! I too have taken to scanning the top line of each message and end up basically deleting them with the decision made in about .2 seconds. I used to read everything but there is just too much garbage to do that anymore with my limited time. I do not favor moderation, but I do favor responsible posting. Jonathan Engdahl wrote: > > Jay: > > I vote for the selective moderation idea. A monthly FAQ is also a good idea. > There are three things that need to be corrected on this list: > > - off topic volume is way too high > - we need to eliminate insults, personal attacks, and language that is > obviously intended to offend > - subject lines need to correctly identify the content of the message when > the topic has drifted > > Perhaps a warning to offenders, and the knowledge that you *could* put them > on the moderated senders list, might be enough to correct the majority of > the problem posts. > > I don't know why, but the other classic computer related lists I am > subscribed to have almost none of these problems. On the others, I at least > glance at each message. On this list, I have been forced to scan for > messages that seem to have relevant subject lines, and delete 97% of the > rest without even looking at them. Effectively, the garbage-senders have > crowded me out of full participation in the list. > > On the other hand, I remain subscribed because it is the most active, and > has the highest likelihood of being helpful in a short time when someone > comes up with a question. > > -- > Jonathan Engdahl???????????????? Rockwell Automation > Principal Research Engineer????? 24800 Tungsten Road > Advanced Technology????????????? Euclid, OH 44117, USA > Euclid Labs????????????????????? engdahl(a)cle.ab.com 216-266-6409

24 years, 10 months

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'HELLO' on the ENIAC

by jpl15＠panix.com

Someone, perhaps having a little more time (and a lot more skill) than I, might take up a little exercise I thought of while deleti^H^H^H^H^H perusing all the "hello world on modern platforms" thread: There exists a freeware ENIAC emulator for Wintel boxen... I have it on my old machine which is lying dormant in a closet here, so I don't have the URL handy, but Google is your friend in this instance. It might be retro-cool to try coding 'Hello World' on the ENIAC... one could recieve output on the TTY, or, if one were excruciatingly clever, cause it to scroll by on the Mercury Tank Register display CRT. Cheers John

24 years, 10 months

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TRS80 help needed

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Aug 22, 17:24, Don Maslin wrote: > On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > I remember those -- the RML380Z used them. Canon also made a 2/3 drive -- > > a 40/80 switchable > Pete, were those the ones that also had a `touch latch' door on them? > Some of the Otrona Attache's used such drives, but I had no idea that > they were 40/80 switchable! Do you have any jumper information for > them? They actually made two or three models, so yours may not be switchable. I do have the jumper information somewhere, and I'll look for it this evening. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 10 months

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[laroche@aracor.com: Surplus VAX]

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

Free 11/750; contact him directly please. Bill ----- Forwarded message from Denis LaRoche <laroche(a)aracor.com> ----- Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:26:10 -0700 From: Denis LaRoche <laroche(a)aracor.com> To: mrbill(a)decvax.org Subject: Surplus VAX Hello, Our company has a VAX 11/750 that we want to dispose of. We would like to give it to someone who could use it versus giving it to a scrap dealer. Along with the VAX is a Kennedy model 9401 tape drive with lots of tape, a CSPI minimap Plus 4 array processor and Ramtek video. We consider it a package deal. We are in need of disposing of the system quickly so a quick response will be appreciated. Thanks for the help. Denis LaRoche Purchasing Manager ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bill Bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net Austin, TX

24 years, 10 months

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Curricula ...

by mbbrutman＠magnaspeed.net

This is quite an interesting discussion on computer science curricula. My 2 cents, for what it's worth. I started with BASIC on a PCjr. The coding style was attrocious, and I couldn't make it perform. Such is the tragedy of a strictly interpreted language with a run-time that owns the entire environment. Performance tips for interpreted BASIC actually had you shorten variable names, use literals instead of constant variables, strip comments, and put multiple statements on a line. These are all things we learned to abhor. Early on I figured out the need for speed and structure. I bought Zbasic. That gave me functions, procedures, and it was a compiler, not a wussy interpreter. It also gave me the ability to do inline machine code. Zbasic opened lots of new paths for me. Best of all, I still had to live within the confines of a 64KB code segment. On my bigger programs (a BBS system) I had to use overlays. By the time the BBS project was done, I knew the 8250 UART and RS232 signals, and the Hayes command sent in and out. I had also learned to program really tight. In high school we did Pascal. Pascal gave me pointers, in return for locking me up in a straight-jacket. Pointers were powerful and alluring though. This led to self-study on C. At State University of New York (Oswego) ten years ago, I learned the classics - assembler, Fortran, COBOL, Modula-2, and C. I didn't become proficient at assembler, Fortran or Cobol - I just needed to be aware that they existed, and to understand the school of thought >from which they came. C was the language of choice, because I was interested in networking and operating systems. (Use the right tool for the job.) C++ just started coming out then .. in my last year I dove into that, and picked up a new programming paradigm. (I hate that word.) Professionally I had to learn PL/MP, which was IBM's internal language for programming in the OS on an AS/400. My first job was porting SNA comm code from one dialect of PL/MP to a newer one. Pain is good; it builds character. Then I had to learn to port PL/MP to C, and to do PowerPC assembly - I now owned some interrupt vectors. C and C++ were the languages of choice. We only used assembly when raw performance was necessary, or when we needed to perform voodoo that we could not code using the compiler. (We would often manipulate stack frames and other data structures outside the confines of the compiler.) Good programmers are too expensive and schedules are too tight to do most things in assembler. Only the lowest levels of the OS use assembler, and even then it is a mix of C and assembler. After eight years in the hole, I decided to move up into application space. Java is a much different environment. I've never been so productive when writing code - the runtime and library support are extensive. Java is deceptive though - lots of people can program in Java, but few can do it well. I constantly struggle to guess the performance characteristics of what I am writing; with a C++ program, I could change some listing options and look at the generated assembler. Now I'm kind of blind - I have to the design through very carefully as I write, because I can't see the generated assembly as easily. I don't know how a student with a four year degree can be called a professional programmer. It's only after 17 years of programming (with 10 years of professional experience) that I now consider myself armed and dangerous. I loved taking graduate classes as an older student - it was so easy to crush the competition because of the depth of experience and exposure that I had. ;-) You can get somebody to do Java and VB in four years with a fair level of competence. If you want a professional programmer, those are a different breed. Without the languages background, the OS classes and the compiler classes, it's all a black box. Understanding the black box is key to utilizing it. And I've so much to learn ... I've not forayed into LISP yet. Mike

24 years, 10 months

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Disk format for Altair88DSK

by rcini＠optonline.net

Hello, all: Now that I have the terminal support and Altair BASIC running in the Altair32 emulator, I need to get the diskette emulation working. To make sure that I'm getting this right, I need to get the docs on the 88DSK controller. I may have I posted this previously but now I'm at the point of the project where I could use them. Kind soles contact me off-list. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/

24 years, 10 months

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NOTICE FROM THE LIST HOST (re: recent political commentary)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

My $.02 or less. OT stuff has been interesting at time and sometimes way too far off topic. Too many mee tooo postings. Foul language, so what. It tends to label the user and may be archived somehwere to bit them later. As to politics; if the topic is how Alan Turning was treated while alive its on topic, maybe. If it what the {pick your non favorite) is doing today it's NOT classic and OFF TOPIC. In the end though,... when my mail from here exceeds seventy or more messages a day all usually deleted on sight it's time for me to consider exiting the list as it's no longer useful and far to much work to read and possibly post to. Right now I'm fairly maxed out and doing mail management for that many messages from one source with an added very high noise to signal suggests it's time to pull the plug. I think far to much has been said and the best, easiest and fastest solution is to simply stop replying to OT threads. If by chance a OT thread has some valid content copy it to a new on topic thread and get on with it. Allison

24 years, 10 months

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Switching PS for S-100 Computer?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Rich Beaudry <r_beaudry(a)hotmail.com> >I would like to ask if any of you know of an existing, available, commercial >switching power supply that could be used to power an S-100 computer? WHY???? The bus voltages for S100 are UNREGULATED. >I realize I could get a +5V and +/- 12V supply, and just remove the >regulation circuitry on the cards, but given the amount of them that I have, >that gets very labor-intensive, and I'd rather not have to hack out parts of >these cards... Only if its an old LINEAR supply as SMPS designs mostly will not dot it. The S100 power supply is terminally simple. Three transformers {8,16, 16 V AC}, three bridge rectifiers and three caps... thats all folks. FYI there were "improved" S100 supplies that did some preregulation using CVCs or transistors but they are not essential. Allison

24 years, 10 months

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PC11 & 11/20 Questions

by jss＠subatomix.com

Well, I've now acquired a PC05 high-speed paper tape reader/punch for the PDP-11/20 I'm currently restoring. I still lack the PC11 board, though. Megan's list says the following: M781 PC11 U PC11 control board for KA11 M7810 PC11 U Paper tape reader/punch controller Do I *have* to use the M781 version, or can I also use the M7810 if it's all that I can find? What is the actual difference between the two boards? Next: why were the backplane modules mounted at the top of the BA11, wire wrap up, in the 11/20? It's easy to flip the thing over while it's not in a rack, but when it's in a rack... Some trivia: the two partial 11/20's from which this one is being built have serial numbers 786 and 1102. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss(a)subatomix.com

24 years, 10 months

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NOTICE FROM THE LIST HOST (re: recent political commentary)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Aug 21, 10:53, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > > Maintain two lists of subscribed people: A moderated list and an > > unmoderated list. Normally people are on the unmoderated list of > > subscribers. When someone posts offtopic enough to warrant it, they > > get moved to the moderated list of subscribers, and then (and only > > then) their posts have to be OKed to make it to the list. > > What a great idea. I also think it's a good idea. I get pretty fed up with long off-topic threads especially those of a political nature, though I don't mind the occasional off-topic post. Deleting a few OT posts is fine, wading thorugh dozens isn't something I enjoy. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 10 months

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SemiOT: Mourning for Classic Computing

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > No, I disagree. Leanring programming is not the same as learning a > programming language (the latter is much easier, even for a beginner). > You should learn to think about the problem long before you ever write a > single line of code. I'll take this even one step further... learning programming isn't learning how to construct applications. They didn't teach how to construct applications when I was in school; and now, with RAD/IDE and class libraries/frameworks, most people never learn. Since constructing applications is (generally) platform-dependent, it might never have been/be appropriate to cover in a college course. Fortunately, my career path put me in the position of maintaining systems constructed (or *not* constructed) by others. I found that I learned how to conceive a large system and implement it by factoring by immersing myself in a previous system that someone else wrote, and while immersing myself, watching out for bad habits to be avoided. Regards, -dq

24 years, 10 months

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SemiOT: Mourning for Classic Computing

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> But then is Pascal that bad? Bad? Bad at what? bad *for* what? > Whenever I think of BASIC, and I don't think this applies only to me, I think > of a cosy 40-column TV screen on a micro with 64 k of addressable memory. > Other languages just don't seem as cosy. Must be because of the environment. > If the eight-bitters had booted into Pascal, perhaps things would have looked > differently? Most likely you're correct, but then I associate BASIC with a full compiler that could generate 132-column headered listings complete with symbol table and assembly language output for each statement. Some 8-bitters *did* boot directly into Pascal... at least I never saw a copy of UCSD Pascal that was anything other than language environment *AND* operating system combined... And as for booting directly into a language environment, any old FORTH programmers here? At one time, I thought FORTH would rule the world.

24 years, 10 months

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NOTICE FROM ....... -- NO HTML please! --

by sipke＠wxs.nl

One of the rules that would make sense to me would be that people would stick to plain text mail, rather than fancy large letters etc. NO HTML PLEASE (so of us can't even read it !) As an example I've recoded the offending posting ..... Sipke de Wal --------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx --------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 6:51 PM Subject: Re: NOTICE FROM THE LIST HOST -- a vote in favor of limited moderation Hear, hear!!!! I too have taken to scanning the top line of each message and end up basically deleting them with the decision made in about .2 seconds. I used to read everything but there is just too much garbage to do that anymore with my limited time. I do not favor moderation, but I do favor responsible posting. Jonathan Engdahl wrote: > > Jay: > > I vote for the selective moderation idea. A monthly FAQ is also a good idea. > There are three things that need to be corrected on this list: > > - off topic volume is way too high > - we need to eliminate insults, personal attacks, and language that is > obviously intended to offend > - subject lines need to correctly identify the content of the message when > the topic has drifted > > Perhaps a warning to offenders, and the knowledge that you *could* put them > on the moderated senders list, might be enough to correct the majority of > the problem posts. > > I don't know why, but the other classic computer related lists I am > subscribed to have almost none of these problems. On the others, I at least > glance at each message. On this list, I have been forced to scan for > messages that seem to have relevant subject lines, and delete 97% of the > rest without even looking at them. Effectively, the garbage-senders have > crowded me out of full participation in the list. > > On the other hand, I remain subscribed because it is the most active, and > has the highest likelihood of being helpful in a short time when someone > comes up with a question. > > -- > Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation > Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road > Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117, USA > Euclid Labs engdahl(a)cle.ab.com 216-266-6409

24 years, 10 months

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Who reads their email the most Classically?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> "Curt Vendel" <curt(a)atari-history.com> wrote: > > Is anyone running any internet connected lynx servers with dialup > > capability??? I've wanted to do this myself as many older Atari 8-bit > > groups would like access for email and newsgroup reading to stay connected > > with the online Atari communities. > > They're called "shell accounts". Yes, they exist as commercial > offerings. For example, Panix in NYC (http://www.panix.com/) and a2i > communications in the San Francisco Bay Area (http://www.rahul.net/). And IgLou (Internet Gateway of Louisville) in Louisville, KY metro area, Cincinnati metro area, Lexington Ky, and Memphis, TN. How they missed Nashville I've yet to figure out... -dq

24 years, 10 months

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OT: Need Source for Sharp LCD Screens

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Hey Y'all... My Sharp PC-3040 notebook has suffered psychedelic screen death... likely cause being one too many episode of rough handling. Does anyone know of a source for these things? Regards, -doug q

24 years, 10 months

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Exidy Sorcerr - IT WORKS

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Aug 20, 19:09, Louis Schulman wrote: > I would like to report that after 3 months of probing, poking, desoldering, soldering, studying schematics, > reading data sheets, etc., etc., my Exidy Sorcerer WORKS! > In any event, I want to publicly thank Pete Turnbull, without whose help and encouragement this project > would not have been possible. Thanks for the acknowledgement, but I have to say that it was Louis's own perseverance and hard work that got the machine going :-) No mean feat, considering he didn't know much about logic circuits before he started, and this machine actually had several faults! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 10 months

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Room for Collections

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Aug 22, 13:29, James Carter wrote: > the two main obstacles to the collection are the space, it is a very > small room and there is barely room for a chair left, and the stairs, > which are steep and narrow. getting some of the heavier stuff up there > is, err, interesting, isn't it, pete? Yes, though I don't think "interesting" was quite what we said while we were moving the 3/160 :-) > my partner is very good about it all. i do try not to anagonise her too > much by keeping all the machine in one room.. mostly. She liked that NeXT on the dining room table, though :-) > i got her to agree > in principle to using a module from an sgi o2000 as a coffee table in > the living room though - quite impressive, i thought. Now all we need are those modules :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 10 months

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CBM 8032 SK

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Aug 22, 9:58, Adrian Vickers wrote: > At 11:39 pm 21/08/2001 GMT, Pete Turnbull wrote: > >Yes to both parts -- on the 8032, the ROMs can be replaced by Texas 2532 > >EPROMs (that's from memory but I might be able to look it up), and I have > >dumps of the ROMs from my 8032 (which I sold a while ago). I checked the pinouts -- the EPROMs do need to be TMS2532. Ordinary 2732 EPROMs won't do (the chip select and A11 address line are in the wrong places). > I've already got the ROM dumps (they are available on funet), what I don't > have is the means to burn EPROMs. Still, that's fixable - Maplin do EPROM > burners. If you get stuck, I can burn them for you, if you send me blanks. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 10 months

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Room for Collections

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

> I'm using a Belkin that was given to me and it's fairly nice, but > sometimes it doesn't register the keystrokes to switch screens (Scroll-lock > twice, then it beeps, then another key sequence to select the machine). > Also, there seems to be some problems using the mouse and Linux (but you may > have to play around with that). > > -spc (The Belkins can also be chained together, which is nice if you > have an insane number of machines 8-) The Belkin I have seems to have had the ability to switch screens from the keyboard 'burned out'. It quite working after I tried mulitiple times to switch to a nonexistant system (oops). Other than that I really like mine. I've used it with PC's and DEC Alpha's, and the only problem I've had is with having the Alpha's keyboard plugged in, the KVM would forget that there is a keyboard on the KVM, not just for the Alpha, but for everything. Still as nice as it is, it's even nicer to have multiple monitors (of course that requires you to have the desktop realestate and the monitors. Just stay away from the mechanical switches if you're going to be running anything modernish. They seem to ghost unless you've a very slow refresh. Zane

24 years, 10 months

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IBM 5150 PC

by model6226＠hotmail.com

HI , Do anyone know where I can find an IBM 5150 pc for sale. thanks rami. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

24 years, 10 months

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TRS80 help needed

by foxvideo＠wincom.net

I have just been given a Model One (which I haven't got into yet,) and a Model 4, along with some manuals and drives. One of the external drives is a BASF Model 6106, would this by chance be an early hard drive? It is built like a full height floppy, but there is no place to put one! Any information on it would be much appreciated. The Model 4 is suffering from a bad keyboard, (dead except for reset button,) and is working with one borrowed from another Model 4. Does anyone have information on it? It is not covered in the 4 technical reference manual. I haven't been able to get the 4 to recognize drive "1". I have five full height floppies on hand, and all will work OK as drive "0", but not as drive "1". I have checked the cable and it has the required missing contacts, "12, 14, 32" for "0" and "10, 14, 32" for "1", but still no action. I can't find any jumpers on the Texas Peripherals drives, am I missing something? Thanks Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo(a)wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com

24 years, 10 months

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Curricula (was: Assembly vs. Everything Else

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

With the new genetic engineering maybe we should genetically engineer and breed programmers in categories. 1. Fast twitch, code before they think 2. Slow twitch, think then code A. Accurate code on first try B. Approximate code on first try y. Mission critical code is goal z. entertainment quality code is goal I think I'll order a 2Az for my next child. Intended to be humor, but I get acknowledgement, patent rights and a Nobel Prize if it actually comes to pass. Mike

24 years, 10 months

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New Find

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

Hey gang, I recently found a small computer in a junkyard and was wondering if anyone can help to identify it. All I got was the backplane and a handful of cards. No disks, no cabinent, no power supply, and no markings on any of the cards. The cards are approximately 4" x 5" and have a 56 pin edge connector with .156" spacing. At first I thought it might be STD bus but, STD uses .125" spacing so, that's not correct. Also the cards are smaller than STD and are mounted "sideways" (long side has the edge connector). The CPU card has a RCA 1802ACE processor, a 2M crystal oscillator, and some glue. There are a couple of I/O cards, identifiable by the existance of optoisolators on the cards. There's a ROM card populated with 8 x 2764's. Not sure but, that seems like a *lot* of ROM for this system. There's also a RAM card with a minimal amount of RAM and another card with a MC14034B keyboard encoder. I don't have any other 1802 stuff and would like to see if I could get it to do anything. If anyone has any ideas as to what this might be, I'd appreciate some info. SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

24 years, 10 months

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Early internetworking connections

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> [[ and I doubt I could do it anymore, but I could *whistle* the characters > Q & R into the handset while the modem was connected... Needless to say, > back then that "talent" still didn't attract the chicks! ;-) ]] I can still whistle a carrier into an acoustic coupler, and get it to hold until my breath runs out... this is with an Anderson- Jacobsen model... BTW: the breath *does* run out faster now, than it used to... -dq

24 years, 10 months

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[jjc@mac.com: pdp11 stuff]

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

Another request for help - contact him directly if you can assist. Bill ----- Forwarded message from jjc(a)mac.com ----- From: jjc(a)mac.com Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:17:16 -0300 To: mrbill(a)pdp11.org Subject: pdp11 stuff Hi, I have some RK05 and RL02 media that I need data from. I would be glad to donate it to anyone who could retrieve the data. In addition, I believe that I may have some original PDP 11/23 (and 03) manuals, and miscellaneous non working parts. Please put me in contact with someone who I can trust to retrieve my data. John Christie (Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS) ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bill Bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net Austin, TX

24 years, 10 months

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[eric@gts-i.com: RE: pdp11]

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

Can someone help this guy? Needs some 5.25" or 8" floppies formatted, and is willing to pay... Mail him directly. Bill ----- Forwarded message from Eric Gilbert <eric(a)gts-i.com> ----- From: "Eric Gilbert" <eric(a)gts-i.com> To: "Bill Bradford" <mrbill(a)mrbill.net> Subject: RE: pdp11 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:23:10 -0700 Hello Bill, Thanks again for the help. I have a business client that needs formated disks for a DEC machine used in a production environment. He can't/won't use this machine for formating disks, and I don't have a system. So I either need to buy a cheap machine to format disks or pay someone to do it. My preferance is to send some boxes of disks and money to somebody who can do it. Eric Gilbert ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bill Bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net Austin, TX

24 years, 10 months

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SemiOT: Mourning for Classic Computing

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

Postscript I seem to remember that the different things you could do with postscript and display postscript were both very very CPU intensive. You needed to have the full page in memory to manipulate the bitmap. Most laser printers had so many milliseconds for the page commands to be interpreted, rasterized and produced before timeout. We used Xerox 2700 and 3700's and found that the with the timeout we ended up with 2 pages each with 1/2 of the image. All of the connections were either parallel or serial and that was also a limitation. We tried early non-storage Tektronix terminals did graphics list processing. Lots of primitives, simple fonts. Later ones the memory prices were cheap enough to have an entire page. Gordon Zaft wrote: > Isn't that basically the idea of display Postscript? Whatever >happened to that? > >GZ > >Gordon Zaft >zaft(a)azstarnet.com Mike

24 years, 10 months

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new acquisition - Rockell AIM 65/40

by tosteve＠yahoo.com

Hey, I've recently come across a Rockwell AIM 65/40, which is not the original AIM 65. This is a newer version that came out a few years later, it seems. Here are some pictures: http://members.home.net/obsoletetechnology/AIM-65-40.html Anyway, I can't find any information what-so-ever on the web, and it comes without a user manual. If anyone has any good information that I can add to my website, please let me know! Thanks! Steve. tosteve(a)yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

24 years, 10 months

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[ot?] request for comment

by rhudson＠cnonline.net

I was going to write a simulator for Bell Labs "Cardiac" (cardboard slide the slides and move bits be the cpu your self) computer, but all I can find is the Instruction Set, none of how the instructions are implemented. So, I decieded to write my own... Here is the instruction set, I thought it best to consult with you all before beginning to code. What do you think? Opcodes 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Z N o1 o2 o3 ================================================================= Z N 0 0 1 i r r get copy (indirect) register rr to acx Z N 0 1 0 i r r put copy (indirect) acx to register rr Z N 0 1 1 o o o Mathop 0 0 0 nop 0 0 1 add acx + acy ==> acx 0 1 0 sub acx - acy ==> acx 0 1 1 and acx & acy ==> acx 1 0 0 exor acx xor acy ==> acx 1 0 1 or acx | acy ==> acx 1 1 0 cmp acx cmp acy set Z and N 1 1 1 cpz acx cmp 0 set Z and N Z N 1 0 0 p p p inp copy port ppp ==> acx Z N 1 0 1 p p p out copy acx ==> port ppp Z N 1 1 0 i r r swp acx ==> (ind) Rn == > acx Z N 1 1 1 0 o o acx op group 0 0 0 not r1 <== ! r1 0 0 1 shl Shift left 0 1 0 shr Shift right 0 1 1 inc Increment r1 <== r1 + 1 Z N 1 1 1 1 o o Jump Group 1 0 0 jmp ind [pc] pc <== [pc] 1 0 1 jsr ind [pc] R2 <== pc , pc <== [pc] 1 1 0 rtn pc <== R2 1 1 1 Halt,reset [pc] <== 0 Zero and Negative flags On execution of the cmp and cpz instructions the Z and N flags are set, following instructions can test these flags and choose to execute or not. Z N Meaning 0 0 Execute if acx was positive on test (acx > 0 / acx > acy) 0 1 Execute if acx was negative on test (acx < 0 / acx < acy) 1 0 Execute if acx was zeron on test (acx = 0 / acx = acy) 1 1 Always execute Registers 00 r0 acx 1st operand 01 r1 acy 2nd operand 10 r2 ptr Pointer register 11 r3 pc Program Counter here is an example of an assembled program.... Assembly of a simple program org $10 ; program starts at 10 10 get ind pc ; load value1 acy 10 11001111 00010000 adr value1 11 00011001 00010001 swp acy 12 11110110 00010010 get ind pc ; load value2 acx 13 11001111 00010011 adr value2 14 00011010 00010100 add ; sum values 15 11011001 00010101 put ind pc ; store sum 16 11010111 00010110 adr sum 17 00011011 00010111 hlt ; end of program 18 11111111 00011000 value1 byt 19 00011001 value2 byt 1A 00011010 sum byt 1B 00011011 end ; end of code I know, it only has 256 words of 8 bit memory, but isn't this as much as some of the early machines?

24 years, 10 months

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NOTICE FROM THE LIST HOST (re: recent political commentary)

by allain＠panix.com

I hit a sort on Jay West's name and only came up with his single, important post. I take this to mean that all other related messages are more rants or nearly so. There are 90 new messages in less than a day. This will likely make me hit the (A cursory look at Richards posts lately show OnTopicism--thanks) hit the delete key fast and loose. Why a thread like "GW Bush Cancelled VCF 5.0 VCF" didn't halt immediately is a mystery. If noone said it already, here's me: Moderation takes time. If there is no-one to do it this MAY lead to list shutdown --Bad! Self moderation saves time --everyone else's. Thanks to those that do it. John A.

24 years, 10 months

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an odd question

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

weird characters, cursor control, bells and whistles I believe the "\n", "\t" and other conventions are linked to the printf function in C. For example if you want to a print a non scrolling list of lines processed you could send out lines to printf a 5 character number and then use "\b\b\b\b\b" to reposition the cursor at the start of the number so that the next print command overwrites it. The effect is handy with terminals kind of a pain on a LA34 where the printing is overwritten on the paper Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

24 years, 10 months

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MPP Possibility (Was: Notice)

by vance＠ikickass.org

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Adrian Vickers wrote: > >This leads to one mind-boggling possibility. If one etches custom boards > >with eight Z80s each, and pumps all eight each clock, and one takes > >several thousand of these boards, wouldn't that be a rather interesting > >MPP supercomputer? Would it be more or less money than one made with, > >say, IBM POWER4s, or Alphas, or StrongARMs? > > Heh! I like it... The chips would be cheaper in bulk as well, and with a > bit of heatsinking it should be possible to overclock them somewhat. How hot do Z80s get under normal operation? Would you be able to overclock them using heatsinks without fans? That would simplify things a bit. > Mind you, even with discounts you're looking at twenty grand just to sort > out your processor farm; and you still need the i/o logic... Yes, but how fast a computer would you get for $20,000? Would it be faster than other machines at that price? I don't think the I/O would be a big deal. You could use off-the-shelf components to do it. > Still, 8000 Z80s running at 4MHz could theoretically yield the equivalent > of 1 Z80 running at 32GHz. That's assuming that the task you're running can be parallelized to that degree. And plus, if you were to run each of these hypothetical 8-Z80 boards as a single CPU, you would have a 64-bit system. Peace... Sridhar > Would Manic Miner be playable at that speed? ;) > Cheers! > Ade. > -- > B-Racing: B where it's at :-) > http://www.b-racing.co.uk >

24 years, 10 months

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ancient LaserJet's

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

Richard Erlacher was inquiring about ancient LaserJet IID's. Here is some info stored in my overloaded brain, maybe slightly garbled. In duplex mode the HP LaserJet IID printed the paper on one side then ejected the paper out the rear and then reinserted the paper to print the other side. It was kind of a triangular contraption that held the paper on the way out and then allowed it to be pulled back in. >From about 1988-1995 we didn't use MSWindows, only DOS. Ours were connected via parallel interfaces and downloading fonts took memory and time, the font cartridges offered the chance to have "standard" fonts already installed. The other problem was that occasionally somebody would send/download non HP fonts to the printer and then garbage would print for 20-50 pages. It was also difficult to track whose fonts were in the printer at any one time. We always reset between jobs. We also didn't install lots of printer memory. We later got a HP 2000 printer but we had nothing but problems, There were barcode fonts, graphic fonts, foreign languages, and line drawing fonts. I personally owned a IID and was given another but I donated them to the local not-for-profit computer surplus. Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

24 years, 10 months

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Switching PS for S-100 Computer?

by r_beaudry＠hotmail.com

Hello all, I have a few S-100 motherboards that I'd like to make use of, but I have no decent linear power supply for them. I have little experience designing power supplies, so I hesitate to try to build a linear supply. Also, the cost of the transformer alone would most likely be prohibitive. Then there's the heat issues, big caps that go boom when my design fails, etc. I would like to ask if any of you know of an existing, available, commercial switching power supply that could be used to power an S-100 computer? Here's the wrinkle: S-100 requires around +8V and around +/- 16V. The "around" is because traditionally S-100 computers were supplied by unregulated linear supplies of these voltages, and the S-100 cards themselves carried the voltage regulators necessary to regulate the supply voltages to +5V and +/- 12V. Also, the current must be high on the +8V side (say 20+ amps, especially for a 20-slot motherboard), and about 5+ amps on +/- 16V. I realize I could get a +5V and +/- 12V supply, and just remove the regulation circuitry on the cards, but given the amount of them that I have, that gets very labor-intensive, and I'd rather not have to hack out parts of these cards... Thanks for any pointers... Rich B.

24 years, 10 months

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Fwd: Re: Room for Collections

by vance＠ikickass.org

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Kent Borg wrote: > On Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 06:10:37PM -0400, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > I think the distinction between supercomputers and mainframes is even > > deeper than that. Supercomputers are designed to do things very very > > fast. Mainframes are designed to do many many things at once. The two > > goals frequently aren't convergent. > > Very much so. Maybe a supercomputer is to a dragster as a mainframe > is to an 18-wheeler. Both might have roughly the same magnatude > engine with the dragster doing somewhat more power (I am making this > up--don't fault me on the specifics), but the intended uses are very > different. Your analogy is quite good. If we continue this analogy, we can say that your proverbial dragster has a lot more horsepower than the tractor-trailer, and the semi has a lot more torque than the dragster. You could force a supercomputer to act like a mainframe, or vice versa, but it wouldn't work very well. > > Mainframes are very good at serving thousands, if not hundreds of > > thousands of *simultaneous* transactions. > > Yes, though earlier mainframes were doing batch jobs with cards and > later mag tape. But always mainframes are big iron for business and > that makes them very different from the shortlived big thoroughbred > iron of supercomputers. They were still sitting there chugging away doing many simultaneous (not very quickly) with data obtained from mag tape or punched card. There were, of course exceptions to this paradigm, but I still think it's a good way of looking at it. > -kb, the micro-oriented Kent who used to be puzzled over what made > mainframes different, and though he still doesn't know that much about > mainframe architecture, he at least understands their function is > quite different. > Peace... Sridhar

24 years, 10 months

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Room for Collections

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Aug 21, 12:16, James Rice wrote: > On another list, there has been a long thread about SO's and room for > the hobby. Does anyone else keep their collection set up and > functioning? Does your SO understand? Mine isn't all up and running, but in the office I have: SGI Indy R5000 (always on, it does mail, NFS, backups, etc) Acorn Archimedes A440 (always on) Sparcstation 1+ (rarely on!) ancient PC (occasionally on, for proprietary data CDs and Word docs) BBC B with floppies, hard drive, various extras Exidy Sorcerer (for Galaxians etc) SGI Indigo and an ISDN router, managed hub, HP1600CM colour inkjet which are also always on, and a laser printer which is turned on when needed. Next door, my wife has an SGI Indigo Elan which she uses for mail, surfing, etc. There are few oddments on shelves, such as a Microwriter AgendA, a Z88, a Psion Organiser, a 2901 microcode tutor, and some others. There are two more Indys in the workshop, one of which is usually on, and another BBC and another PC (used for Linux and 22Disk). There's also another managed hub and another router (Ethernet and FDDI), a GatorBox, a couple of terminal servers, ... Most of the working part of the collection is in the workshop: PDP-11/23 in office rack with 2 x RL02, running 7th Edition Unix or RT11 microPDP-11/83 running BSD 2.11 microVAX-II running VMS somthing-or-other (at least it was, last time I looked) 6' DEC rack containing an 11/34, two 11/73's, front-loading 1/2" magtape unit, large Fujitsu winchester, RX02, and a couple of other 8" floppies. These run RSX-11 and RT-11. There's a pair of shelf bays which have the following set up and runnable: Apple Mac IIvx Sage II Dragon 32 2 more Indigos, one XZ, one basic LG graphics (Song and Dance Machine, if you know what that is) Atari Mega ST VT/78 microfiche reader and 'fiche boxes Acorn R260 Amiga 500 Commodore PET 2001-8K (except it's only 7K since one chip went) Commodore 8050 dual drive for the PET KIM-1 home-grown Z8-based SBC Amstrad PCW 8512 Sinclair Spectrum Sinclair QL Acorn Atom Nascom (not strictly runnable, it needs some work) Apple ][ Europlus Apple //e Apple Mac Plus and hard drive NeXTstation Vaxstation 3100 Around the workshop, there are a few terminals, an Epson FX100, a laptop, and various oddments, along with my test gear, spares, etc. The rest of the collection languishes in the attic, including more Sinclair stuff, Acorn Electron, C128, Vic-20, Sharp MZ80K, Acorn Archimedes A310, another Acorn R260, ... I'm not sure about "understanding", but Liz is reasonably tolerant, providing the collection remains in designated areas. Which it does, most of the time (there's another 11/23 reputedly with TSX-11 installed, and a VT100, and a large Eurocard cage in the garage at the moment). She'd rather have a modern PC than an Indigo on her desk, but there's no way I'm putting a full-time Windows machine on my network :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 10 months

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