- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

Sorry to bother the list but, has anyone heard from Joe? I'm trying to make final plans for the CFCJF (Central Florida computer Junk fest) and need to speak with him. I know his service was down. Not sure if he has a ETA on getting back online. Thanks, SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

24 years, 10 months

1
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SS1 ethernet MAC address... (and my collection!)

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! I've got an SS1 with a dead NVRAM chip. From the FAQs I've read, it's ! trivial to set the MAC address after the chip dies and it's set to ! FF:FF:FF:FF:FF:FF. Providing I use the Sun "standard" of ! 08:00:20 as the ! first three bytes of the MAC address, is there any real issue with me ! choosing a random value for the last three bytes? You might want to check out this web page... "SUN NVRAM/hostid FAQ" http://www.squirrel.com/squirrel/sun-nvram-hostid.faq.html ..it talks about how to change the MAC address, as well as changing the battery in the NVRAM chip. I haven't tried resetting the MAC addresses on my 2 SparcStation 1+ and SparcStation 2 yet, haven't had the chance. BTW, talking about collections, besides the 3 Sparcs, I also have... - Sun SparcStation LX (w/ 20" monitor, and optical mouse) - DEC VaxStation 3100 M38 (32MB RAM) - DEC 3000/400 (with the 20" color monitor) - AlphaStation 200 4/100 (dead power supply, and I think the mainboard might be dead too.) - various 68k Macs (LCII, LCIII, SE30, SE HDFD, Classic, IIci) some for sale/trade - 2 HP ScanJet flatbeds (for sale/trade) The Macs are in the basement at home, and the big stuff is in my office at work :-) --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years, 10 months

3
2
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hardware problem in HP framebuffer?

by cmurillo＠emtelsa.multi.net.co

Gang: I asked a question regarding what I thought was a software problem in Usenet; now it seems that this might actually be an odd hardware problem in the framebuffer or monitor that I am using with my HP735. I think that I might actually get better advice on this list. I am including the posts below; they appear in reverse chronological order; please start reading at the bottom. carlos. From: cem14(a)cornell.edu (Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez) Subject: Re: Some fonts fuzzy/blurry in 10.20 CDE apps Date: Wed, 29 Aug 01 11:51:53 GMT Organization: Cornell University Electrical Engineering Oh-oh. You are right, I have just looked at the image in another system and it looks fine. Now, this is _very_ hard to understand: why would some fonts (even some with very small/narrow features) be displayed fine by the CRX24Z and others not? Since thist now seems to a hardware problem, I have cross-posted to comp.sys.hp.hardware. One more clue: when an improperly displayed font is against a light background and you proceed to highlight it such that it becomes white font over black background, it looks fine! But if the highlighting is white over some lighter background (such as yellow in Netscape) the problem remains. In article <3B8C5279.DD0D1B79(a)hp.com>, Chuck Slivkoff <charles_slivkoff(a)hp.com> wrote: >Carlos, > >I looked at both your screen captures and I don't see anything >that looks bad. The font used in the buttons across the top of the >docs site have been smoothed (anti-aliased), but those are bitmap >images which will look the same on any display. I don't see any >problems at all with the other. Perhaps you can edit the images >and circle some examples of which fonts are causing you the problem. > >Can you take a look at your captures from another system? Do they >look the same? If not, I suspect that you may have a hardware >problem, most likely with the graphics adapter. > >-chuck > >Carlos Murillo wrote: >> >> I am having a problem with some of the fonts displayed by >> X apps; they appear washed out, with some of the normally >> dark pixels appearing in white. Hardware: 735/99, CRX24Z; HPUX 10.20 . >> I have changed most settings accessible via SAM on the X server, >> as well as the font sizes in the CDE settings. Nothing happens. >> Note that not all fonts are rendered improperly; just some of them. >> >> I have posted sample screen captures at >> >> http://jimulco.autonoma.edu.co/~carlos/hpux/capture1.tif (60k) >> >> http://jimulco.autonoma.edu.co/~carlos/hpux/capture2.tif (26k) >> >> I have also searched the HP IT Resource Center, but I did not >> find anything relevant. >> >> Does anybody know how to correct this? My eyes are hurting... >> >> carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org

24 years, 10 months

1
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california digital

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

> IIRC, those things ( the TTY model 40's) WEIGH a TON! I had something like > that, including the printer, and I think the only part I could lift by myself > was the modem, which was a Bell 202. Not to be negative, but ... $49 might be > OK, but freight will be quite a bit more. In that case since the page says they were made for the US Navy they're probably TEMPEST. In looking at them my concern was, what would support them? Zane

24 years, 10 months

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Heurikon (was: RE: Solbourne VME Boards)

by ken＠seefried.com

From: "McFadden, Mike" <mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu> > There used to be a www.heurikon.com page. They are at http://www.artesyncp.com/. They've changed "corporate focus", so support for things like my V532 (NS32532) and Nitro260 (MC68060) are not a priority, although their support folks have really done all they can to help me out. Nice people. Ken

24 years, 10 months

1
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S-100 Power Supplies: thanks!

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Rich, If you need a S100 PS I have one free for picking up. That transformer is far to heavy to ship. FYI this one has the regulators for 8" drives. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Rich Beaudry <r_beaudry(a)hotmail.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:06 AM Subject: S-100 Power Supplies: thanks! >Hello all, > >Thanks to all those who replied to my message regarding S-100 power >supplies, and thanks especially to Dick Erlacher, who offered to sell me >some cheap. I got a private email reply from someone offering the same >thing, and I took him up on it first. So to Dick, I'll pass but thanks >anyway... > >The main problem in all of this was not ever the design. As Allison pointed >out, an unregulated supply is dead simple to design. Even looking at some >commercially designed/built S-100 supplies, you can see it's not rocket >science. The problem nowadays is finding one part -- the transformer. Most >all computers are +5V, +/-12V now, and of course transformer manufacturers >gear towards those. Even some of the surplus places I've gone to on the web >only have "common" voltages (+5V, +/- 12V, +24V, etc). That's why I wanted >to see if there was an SMPS that would do the trick. After looking at SMPS >prices, however, I've decided no to go that route. I'm sure they're >bullet-proof, and would function admirably, but I'm not going to plunk down >$200+ for one :-) (remember, we're talking high current here, not just the >little 1A switcher). > >Anyway, thanks to all ... > >Rich B. >

24 years, 10 months

1
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Plessey "PDP-11"

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

I've acquired a Plessey PDP-11 clone, which has a KDJ11-AC and a bunch of Plessey boards (no other original DEC parts). I was interested in it because it has a full install of RT11 V4.00 and TSX-11, and it has a SCSI (or maybe just SASI) card in it. However, it has no documentation :-( It also has no floppy, just a winchester and an ancient QIC tape drive. Has anyone got any information on the Plessey cards in this machine? Here's the layout: [ DEC KDJ11-AC ] [.....empty.....] [.....empty.....] [ 705919-001 "MIN 1360" 1MB RAM ] [.....empty.....] [ 703755-600E ] [ 703330-100L ] [.....empty.....] [ 703330-100L ] [ 703330-100B ] [.....empty.....] [ 703330-100C ] [.....empty.....] [.....empty.....] [.....empty.....] [.....empty.....] [.....empty.....] [.....empty.....] [.....empty.....] [.....empty.....] [.....empty.....] [.....empty.....] [.....empty.....] [ 705200-300E ] [ 703365-100J ] [.....empty.....] 705919-001 is 1MB DRAM. The board is 1/4 populated, with 36 DRAMs. 703755-600 is a tape controller. It's connected by a 50-way ribbon cable to an Archive Corporation Cartridge Tape Drive, Model 9020L-2. QIC02? QIC36? 703330-100 is a DLV11-J lookalike. Links and switch settings unknown! I could probably work out the address and vector switch settings without too much trouble, since I have four of them set for consecutive addresses, but I don't know about the rest. 705200-300 is a SCSI (SASI?) disk controller. It appears to emulate an RLV21 with 4 x RL02, and has a Wren-2 43MB drive on it. It has a couple of PROMs, one labeled "UK5" and the other "335-100A". 703365-100 has a serial line for the console terminal, connections to the front panel switches, terminators, a bootstrap (?) made up of 4 x TBP28L22 PROMs, three 8-pole DIL switches and several wire-wrap posts. Any info/docs welcome, as would be formatting software (or instructions, if it's built in) for the disk controller... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 10 months

3
2
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Altair documentation

by mranalog＠home.com

Hi, Does anyone know how to contact Steve Shepard in Albuquerque? Has anyone talked to him lately or know if he still sell copies of Altair manuals? It's been a couple of years since I talked to him and I don't think I ever did have his email address. Regards, --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog =========================================

24 years, 10 months

1
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Corvus OmniNet Protocol???

by aek＠spies.com

The basic transporter was a Motorola synchronous serial interface chip, a 68xx microcontroller, and a Corvus ASIC. NEC built an integrated device for them later. The service manuals for some of the early peripheral controllers described it in detail, unfortunately the only person that still has that information is Eric Lander, and I have no good contact info for him any more. The Macintosh version of the Constellation software just used the SCC I assume in HDLC mode.

24 years, 10 months

1
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Solbourne VME Boards

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

Several types of Heurikon boards are listed in the VME bus FAQ. About 1988 we used to build Heurikon based Unix systems for medical image processing. We used the Multibus variety not VME. 400MB Fujitsu eagles 800/1600 bpi Kennedy tape drives 40MB QIC tape drives Hyperchannel Network RAMTEK color monitor 512X512 Megascan BW Monitor 2500 X 2000 Later we added 12" LMSI WORM drives Each image was 10MB and I put 4 per tape. There used to be a www.heurikon.com page. Mike mmcfadden@com

24 years, 10 months

1
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Opening a Z-19: Thanks!

by r_beaudry＠hotmail.com

Hello all, Thanks to those who answered my inquiry on opening a Z-19. You were spot on, and the case opened quite easily! There were no physical signs of damage, so I replaced the cut-off power cord, and fired it up. Unfortunately, the same problem as my Osborne I -- no CRT glow from the neck, and nothing on the screen. Twiddling the brightness did nothing. Oh well, one more thing to fix. I did pull it from a dumpster, so what can I expect, right? :-) I'm not going to ask for docs or information at this time, as I have two other major projects to dive into (the Northstar and the Osborne). When those are done, I will revisit the Z-19. Thanks again to all who helped me "crack the case" :-) hahahahhaha Rich B.

24 years, 10 months

2
1
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Are office people really that, umm shall we say...slow?

by Gary.Messick＠itt.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 7:48 PM > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Are office people really that, umm shall we say...slow? > <snip> > > The most amusing (after the event) version of that was the idiot who > connected the BNC on the back of a VT220 to a thinwire > ethernet network. > No, it didn't do any lasting damage, but needless to say the > network went > down... > > [for the uninitiated, the BNC socket on a VT220 is a composite video > output...] > <snip> We had a secretary do that once on an early Novel network, didn't bring it down, just made it VERY SLOW. (The only thing we could figure was that it allowed data during the re-trace(?). Gary

24 years, 10 months

3
2
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Plastic or Ceramic?

by avickers＠solutionengineers.com

I need a new 6502 for my Commodore 8032 (see posts passim); and it looks like there's a couple of options available, both CMOS and at a variety of speeds from 1-6MHz. However, both DIL variants are available in in plastic or ceramic carriers - what is the advantage/disadvantage of either of those?

24 years, 10 months

5
5
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Culture Shock

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

Hey Group -- Recently a post apperaed here wherein someone was wanting to give away a VAX 11/750. Since I like free stuff :>) but have no experience outside of microcomputers, I did a Google search, and this looks like an interesting machine, and a good intro to minis for a micro person. Especially appealing is the number of operating systems which it will run, and the variety of programming languages available for it. I have a spare room at the shop, so space is not a problem. I'd like to save this machine, but I have a couple of questions: It looks ablout 3.5 feet tall, and the specs put it at 180+ kilograms. How can it weigh that much? What's in it, lead? (yes, I know solder has lead in it , , ,) How much does the tape unit weigh? Another 180 kilos?? What is the total power consumption for the 11/750 and the tape unit? Am I crazy for wanting to rescue this critter, since I don't know the first thing about it? I'll probably break my back moving it and spend the next 10 years learning how to use it and collecting disability benefits at the same time. TIA, Glen 0/0

24 years, 10 months

5
4
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Decoding Nazi Secrets

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

The TV show, man. ---------- > From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Decoding Nazi Secrets > Date: Monday, August 27, 2001 11:58 PM > > > That's the Nova this week, for people who > > don't necessarily tune in otherwise. > > > > John A. > > Huh? > > Zane

24 years, 10 months

2
1
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(doh!) Re: Amusing contest idea...

by mjsnodgr＠rockwellcollins.com

Doh! Next time I'll read all my new mail before responding to something. - M.S. Gene Buckle <geneb(a)deltasoft.com>@classiccmp.org on 08/27/2001 03:06:49 PM Please respond to classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Sent by: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org To: "'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org'" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> cc: Subject: Amusing contest idea... > Well, like someone else said, we would have done much better if we > had the box in front of us, even without opening it. Also, I would not have > hooked anything up without first finding out what ports were what... (Gotta > preserve the magic!) > You know, this sounds like a really fun contest to run at the VCF. "Guess The Configuration". :) g.

24 years, 10 months

1
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Need Freon TF Substitute for Head Cleaning

by ransell＠tmcindustries.com

Gentleman, If any of you have a waste stream of HFE 7100 I would like to purchase the dirty material from you. I will buy anywhere from 1-100 drums at this point in time. Best regards, Robert Ansell TMC Industries, Inc. 800-255-5789

24 years, 10 months

1
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Just curious about injection molding or casting

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

<<<<<clipped>>>>>> ! Building your own spare parts is not easy. For that reason, ! if you do it, ! particularly if you turn out a really successful replica, let ! the rest of us ! know about it, since that means that you have the tooling ! worked out and can ! save us the effort of replicating your hard work. If you've ! done that, you ! deserve appropriate compensation, well above the "normal" ! price of a part, for ! making the otherwise impossible-to-replace part available once more. In other (shorter) words, if you're really good at it, people will pay you well for (re)making obsolete parts... :-) --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years, 10 months

2
1
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Apple II Stuff for Sale

by r_beaudry＠hotmail.com

Hello all, I finally went through all of the Apple II stuff from that school (I still have to test the TRS-80 stuff). Rather than go through some long drawn out auction process, everything has a fixed price. I figured this would be easier on you, and especially on me :-) All prices are in US $, and you also pay shipping. I accept PayPal, or Money Order. I live in Westminster, MA, USA. My zip code for shipping estimates is 01473. I ship EXCLUSIVELY by US Postal Service. Please do NOT ask for another carrier. I live in a somewhat rural area, and UPS, FedEx, etc., are 1/2-hour in each direction from me. The post office is 3 minutes :-) I will gladly ship internationally, but of course, shipping may be expensive. Also, you will need to pay by international money order or PayPal, in US $. Also, if there are more takers than I have of a particular item, I will put names in a hat and draw them out. This is the most fair way to do it, especially for those who get the digest. I will accept orders until 08:00 USA eastern time Thursday, August 30th. Soon after that, I will notify people of what they got. PLEASE include a ZIP code in your order. Not your whole address, just a ZIP code, so I can estimate shipping. Here we go: HARDWARE - IIc, dirty keyboard, yellowed, school markings on bottom, $2.00 - IIc, yellowed, sticker residue, name engraved on top, bad keyboard, but replacement keyboard included, $2.00 - IIc, top and side very yellow, rest OK, no markings, good keyboard, $5.00 - IIc, very little yellowing, clean, good keyboard, no markings, $5.00 - Imagewriter II, w/ power cord, and two black ribbons, still sealed. Tested and working, NO Manual, and NO serial cable, HEAVY!, $10.00 - Apple Monitor III -- Green-screen, tested and working, with stand/power cord, $5.00 - Apple IIc Power Supplies, Qty. 3, tested and working, $5.00 EACH - Laser 128 EX w/ external 5.25", external 3.5", power supply, and manual (User's Guide, BASIC Manual), $20.00 BOOK/ETC - DataStar user's guide -- Manual only, for AII w/ Z80 card and CP/M, $2.00 - SAMS Computerfacts CC1 -- Apple II, II+ -- Schematics, troubleshooting, etc., $10.00 - Apple IIc User's Guide -- commercial , 3rd party book, NOT original Apple manual, by Lon Poole, missing cover, otherwise OK, $2.00 - Basic Apple BASIC, by James S. Coan, $2.00 SOFTWARE - Micro Cookbook software, recipe manager, manual and disk, no box., $2.00 - Championship Lode Runner, manual and disk, no box, $2.00 - Personal Newsletter, manuals, disks, box, $2.00 - Archon game, with disk, manual, reg. card, and box, $2.00 - SkyFox game, with disk, manual, and original box, $2.00

24 years, 10 months

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vintage computers (Forward From kees.stravers@iae.nl)

by kees.stravers＠iae.nl

Please reply to Termtech(a)digitalputty.com, not to me. Let's make sure these machines won't go to waste! On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:05:42, Termtech(a)digitalputty.com said: >Dear Sir > >My company has been repairing and maintaining computer systems since >1977. > >I now find myself with approx. 1000 square feet of very vintage >equipment, repair parts, test equipment and service manuals. > >We saved this equipment with the hope of starting a computer museum at >some time in the future. > >I now find myself in a position where this is no longer possible and I >am looking to find a buyer for this collection who can put it to good >use. > >I am working on a complete list of material and would like to sell the >entire warehouse with fixtures. > >The equipment and manuals cover the spectrum from early DEC pdp 8, 11 >and VAX mini's thru CPM 8bit systems including vector graphics and >Eagle systems and more current IBM and clones. > >Please Let me know if you or anyone you know would be interested. > >Thank You > >Ken Slusser >U.S.A. >termtech(a)digitalputty.com >805.489.2161 -- kees.stravers(a)iae.nl http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia http://www.vaxarchive.org

24 years, 10 months

5
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Just curious about injection molding or casting

by west＠tseinc.com

Don't recall this ever coming up before. I don't need to do it with anything now, but might in the future so thought I'd solicit any ideas from the listmembers. For small plastic parts, say - switches and actuators and the like - that get broken or are missing from systems or peripherals. Is it within the realm of the home hobbiest to forge duplicate parts? For example - a switch on a DEC PC04 where you have 3 switches but are missing one. Can it easily be done to make a casting of the part in some kind of clay, then work with dyes to get the color right and pour in a plastic or resin and thus create another identical switch? I'm sure there's a lot of side issues that come up. Some parts need to be hard, some ever so slightly flexible. Others need to be a solid material, and still others would need to be somewhat opaque to let light shine through. I'm thinking of like front panel switches or light covers. Anyone ever try this route or is it silly to even attempt non-professionally? Jay West

24 years, 10 months

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Pictures from VCF East 1.0

by vcf＠siconic.com

Here is a photo gallery of the VCF East 1.0 exhibit: http://www.vintage.org/gallery.php?grouptag=VCFEAST10&event=VCF%20East%201.0 Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org

24 years, 10 months

2
1
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Decoding Nazi Secrets

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

> That's the Nova this week, for people who > don't necessarily tune in otherwise. > > John A. Huh? Zane

24 years, 10 months

2
1
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Amusing contest idea...

by technos＠nerdland.org

> That sounds like fun.... I would suggest sticking to a PC chassis and > > having a mix of standard (known video adapters, for example) and > obscure > (really obscure) cards. > Ummm.. No.. I have some cards lying around here so unusual I couldn't identify them even with the case open, let alone by physical inspection of the back panel, and a few I couldn't identify even with the card in my hand.. For example, what would you expect a double width card in the ISA portion of the board sporting a pair of DB9 to be a video card, especially after seeing onboard VGA? Jim

24 years, 10 months

1
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Amusing contest idea...

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On August 28, Tony Duell wrote: > Not that many. I think about the best was the nickel delay line memory > (which has a coil of nickel wire with transducers on the ends. Some > 'genius' thought it was some kind of clockwork UPS.... I have one of those. It is *really* neat. :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD

24 years, 10 months

1
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HP-85B service manual

by jspp＠bol.com.br

Does anyone knows were I find a service manual to Hewellet Packard 85-B microcomputers ? Thank's.

24 years, 10 months

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Important Message About VCF 5.0

by vcf＠siconic.com

This is an important message about the upcoming Vintage Computer Festival 5.0. Due to budget constraints, VCF 5.0 has been restructured. The event will begin as scheduled with lectures beginning at 10:00am on Saturday, September 15 at Parkside Hall in San Jose. All lectures will be given on Saturday, ending at 3:00pm. At 4:00pm, the event moves to The Computer Museum History Center at Moffett Field in Mountain View. There, the Museum staff will host a tour and reception of the Museum's "Visible Storage" warehouse. The tour and reception will last approximately 3 hours. After that time, attendees are welcome to return to Parkside Hall to attend the California Extreme classic arcade show at a discount VCF rate of $20 after 5:00PM or $15 after 7:00PM (with your VCF badge). Please note that attendees wishing to visit The Computer Museum History Center must register in advance in order to be allowed through the security gate at Moffett Field, which is a United States military base. Please continue reading for instructions on registering. On Sunday, September 16, VCF 5.0 will continue at the Alameda County Computer Resource Center (ACCRC) in Oakland, California. The ACCRC is a non-profit organization that accepts donations of computers and computer equipment, refurbishes old systems that are then donated to schools and charities, and recycles the remainder to help protect our environment. All exhibits and vendors will be set up at the ACCRC's facility. The ACCRC will also be selling a large amount of vintage computers that they have accumulated over the years, as well as modern day PC and Mac parts in their inventory. There will be tours of the facility to demonstrate the various community projects that the ACCRC conducts. The ACCRC is currently undergoing a budget crisis, so your attendance on Sunday will help this fine organization that serves a worldwide community keep its operation viable. All admission fees on Sunday will be donated to the ACCRC. All paying attendees will receive a donation receipt for their admission. Admission for the lectures on Saturday is $12 per person at the door. Tickets for a shuttle bus which will take attendees to The Computer Museum History Center will be sold separately for $5 per person. The bus is mostly intended to assist out of town guests without their own transportation but any guest is welcome to ride the bus as well. However, seats are limited and priority will be given to out of town guests. Tickets will be issued on a first come, first served basis. Please continue reading for information on how to reserve a seat in advance. Admission to the exhibit and marketplace on Sunday, September 16, at the ACCRC is $10 per person at the door for adults. Kids 17 and under will be admitted free of charge. Parking is ample and free, but we want to encourage attendees to use public transportation such as BART to get to the event. The BART station nearest the ACCRC is the Colesium/Oakland Airport station. Shuttle transportation between the station and the ACCRC will be running every 15 minutes. Out of town guests who will be staying in the San Jose area can use the bus to get to the nearest BART station. If you wish to receive help in planning the trip, please send e-mail to <vcf(a)vintage.org>. Here is a breakdown of the new VCF 5.0 schedule: Saturday, September 15 Time Where What ------- ------------------------------ ----------------------- 10:00AM Parkside Hall in San Jose Lectures until 3:00PM 4:00PM The Computer Museum History A wonderful display of Center in Mountain View historic computers and computing artifacts 7:00PM Parkside Hall in San Jose Lots of fun at the California Extreme classic arcade show Sunday, September 16 Time Where What ------- ------------------------------ ----------------------- 10:00AM Alameda County Computer Classic computer and Resource Center in Oakland ACCRC exhibits, old computer marketplace 5:00PM VCF 5.0 ends To register for the tour at The Computer Museum History Center, please visit this address: http://www.vintage.org/2001/main/tcmhc.php For more information about The Computer Museum History Center, please visit: http://www.computerhistory.org/ For more information about the Alameda County Computer Resource Center, including directions to their location in Oakland, please visit: http://www.accrc.org/ For information about the California Extreme 2001 classic arcade show, please visit: http://www.caextreme.org/ For information on local bus routes and schedules, visit the Santa Clara Valley Transportation Authority website at: http://www.vta.org/ For information on BART schedules and stations, please visit: http://www.bart.gov/ The changes in this year's Vintage Computer Festival are the result of budgetary constraints brought on in part by the sluggish Silicon Valley economy. We hope to be back to normal next year. But for this year, we believe we have put together an event that will still satisfy our loyal VCF fans as well as first-time attendees. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions about this year's event, please do send them to <vcf(a)vintage.org>. We hope to see you at this year's Vintage Computer Festival! And remember, tell a friend! A printable flyer in Word format can be downloaded here: http://www.vintage.org/2001/main/vcf50.doc Vintage Computer Festival 5.0 September 15th and 16th, 2001 http://www.vintage.org/2001/main/

24 years, 10 months

4
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Amusing contest idea...

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! The answers given for some of those were totally amazing, BTW... Do you remember any of the answers? I'm curious... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years, 10 months

2
1
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3 chip video output (OT, I guess)

by Lee.Davison＠merlincommunications.com

> If you can get the SAA5246 you can do either PAL or NTSC video > rates (software selectable). SOunds interesting. The SAA5243 is much easier to find in the UK, I think. It is, I've had five 5243s and no 5246s from scrap TV's recently. How compatible are the 5243 and 5246 in software (as in register bit allocations, etc). Wildly different? A couple of extra bits in the registers to set PAL/NTSC and free run (VCO) and a bit for VCR which was a pin on the 5231. Also a new register with status bits for sync type (525/625), data quality and signal quality. Software for the 5243 should run on the 5246 if you set all the unused bits as per the data sheet. It does, it also has the video output drivers on board so needs far fewer external components. Adding the SAA5231 to an SAA5243-based display is overkill unless you need the genlock capability or you also want to decode teletext data. A As all my teletext chips come from scrap TVs I don't bother removing the 5231, only the Safari control processor if it's fitted. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service.

24 years, 10 months

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Fwd: 5 1/4 Diskettes

by jhellige＠earthlink.net

Here's a note posted to another email list that I thought some of you might be interested in: Jeff >Status: U >Sender: fufu-l(a)telia.com >Reply-To: fufu-l(a)telia.com >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:17:09 -0400 >From: "Bill Fisher" <wefisher1(a)home.com> >To: Multiple recipients of fufu-l <fufu-l(a)telia.com> >Subject: 5 1/4 Diskettes > >I seemed to recall someone needing a supply of 5 1/4" diskettes. Radio Shack >(corporate) has instructed all of their stores that they can price their >existing supplies of 5 1/4" HD (1.2MB) floppies (10 pack with plastic >storage case) at $1.97. If you need this very rare item, here's a great way >to get some at a decent price. >I bought 6 packs incase the person who wanted them cant get any. I will ship >them to whoever needs them. Please be kind enough to advise. > >Bill Fisher in Pittsburgh wefisher1(a)home.com >-- >FLEX & UniFLEX Users' mailing List >http://www.flexusergroup.com/ >http://w1.503.telia.com/~u50302970/ > > -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

24 years, 10 months

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3 chip video output (OT, I guess)

by Lee.Davison＠merlincommunications.com

1) An SAA5243 (for the UK/Europe -- I think the 60Hz-vertical version is the SAA5245) This is actually a teletext display IC for televisions, and is controlled via an I2C bus (2 wires). The nice feature is that the If you can get the SAA5246 you can do either PAL or NTSC video rates (software selectable). 3) Some way of generating a 6MHz clock. A 74LS04 + a crystal, for example. The 5246 has an onboard clock generator so you only need a 27MHz xtal. You get a 40*25 text display (upper and lower case) with teletext-style block graphics and serial colour attributes. Not bad for 3 chips and 2 port lines. You can, with the 5243 or 5246, have either 8 pages of 25x40 or four pages of 27x40. Another advantage is that the 5246 has the video processor (SAA5231) integrated so you can genlock your display. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service.

24 years, 10 months

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Tek 465 as a hobby scope?

by dlinder＠uiuc.edu

I found a Tektronix 465 o-scope today for $50 - it's missing probes, and the owner was going to look for the manual, but I'm wondering if this would be a good scope for hobby purposes? The previous owner feels that it probably needs a good cleaning, like some of the knobs. Any insights? - Dan Dan Linder / dlinder @ uiuc.edu Graduate Student, College of Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science - Dept. of Computer Science Teaching Assistant - DRES Computer Accessibility Researcher

24 years, 10 months

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Paint Curing WAS:Re:Room for Collections

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Aug 27, 10:36, Pete Rickard wrote: > > "Iggy Drougge" <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote: > > The device in the kitchen for baking small spray-painted articles > > can be used for pizza and muffins. [Pete Turnbull] > I read in Electronic Musician, or some similar mag, of a way to get a > professional enamel finish on metal 19" rack plates: the author said > to place the spray-painted piece into an oven set at 200 deg F, turning > off the heat after closing the door. Do you have any experiences on > getting a smooth, durable finish, etc. ? As an aside, real "stove enamel" is a ceramic, fired onto the surface of steel. "Enamel paint" gets its name because it was supposed to be nearly as durable (though it isn't, of course). Professional sprayers do "stove" or "oven" the paint to improve the hardness; on cars, they use a temperature of about 70deg C (which is about 160deg F) -- much higher can damage the electronics -- but for small parts I use a bit more, around 80deg C. It does make the finish tougher, but it won't improve poor visual finish significantly. It just hastens the drying process, which otherwise would take several days to be complete. Of course, all this only applies to cellulose paint. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 10 months

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Paint Curing WAS:Re:Room for Collections

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On August 27, Pete Rickard wrote: > I read in Electronic Musician, or some similar mag, of a way to get a > professional enamel finish on metal 19" rack plates: the author said > to place the spray-painted piece into an oven set at 200 deg F, turning > off the heat after closing the door. Do you have any experiences on > getting a smooth, durable finish, etc. ? I have done this on those nice cast-aluminum Bud chassis. It works well. Be careful not to over-heat them, though, and check them frequently. The 50's style "crinkle finish" can be achieved by evenly preheating the metal in an oven to a slightly higher temperature (250-300 or so) and then applying the paint. Ham operators have been using these techniques for homebrew equipment for many years. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD

24 years, 10 months

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Are office people really that, umm shall we say...slow?

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! ... Perhaps I should have said that there's a real card in ! every slot. No ! blanking plates only. Ah-ha! Trick questions in this quiz! I should've know that! :-) ! > So, how did we do? ! ! Well, I am impressed people have guessed the hard disk ! controller (it was ! one of the obscure ones). On the other hand, some of the incorrect ! guesses would let out magic smoke... Well, like someone else said, we would have done much better if we had the box in front of us, even without opening it. Also, I would not have hooked anything up without first finding out what ports were what... (Gotta preserve the magic!) --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years, 10 months

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[rescue] Re: Solbourne VME Boards

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On August 27, Zach Malone wrote: > I managed to find the silk screened board name on the Keurikon board. Its > an HK68/V10. > "HK68 68000 128K UNIX ?? 84" > Quoted from > http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/1997-05/0519.html > So it is in fact a SBC. I don't have a clue as to why it is inserted in the > Solbourne box, it is of the era of the Solbourne date wise (the Solbourne > 5/600 I have has November 1990 stamped over its original label of 1988, the > HK/68 was originally built in 1984, and mine is copywrite 1989). You > originally found the machine, any clue as to what governmental branch it was > originally under? It was in use at DISA. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD

24 years, 10 months

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[rescue] Re: Solbourne VME Boards

by Diff＠Mac.com

I managed to find the silk screened board name on the Keurikon board. Its an HK68/V10. "HK68 68000 128K UNIX ?? 84" Quoted from http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/1997-05/0519.html So it is in fact a SBC. I don't have a clue as to why it is inserted in the Solbourne box, it is of the era of the Solbourne date wise (the Solbourne 5/600 I have has November 1990 stamped over its original label of 1988, the HK/68 was originally built in 1984, and mine is copywrite 1989). You originally found the machine, any clue as to what governmental branch it was originally under? Zach ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> To: "Zach Malone" <Diff(a)Mac.com> Cc: <rescue(a)sunhelp.org> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 3:02 PM Subject: Re: [rescue] Re: Solbourne VME Boards > On August 27, Zach Malone wrote: > > Heurikon sold a lot of 680x0 based SBC VME cards. Upon furhter thought, I > > would imagine that it is a 680x0 computer and the 4 VME boards which have no > > external ports are all RAM. > > Sure, but why would there be a 68K SBC in the VME I/O backplane of a > Solbourne server? > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire > Laurel, MD > _______________________________________________ > rescue maillist - rescue(a)sunhelp.org > http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

24 years, 10 months

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Tek 465 as a hobby scope?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On August 27, Dan Linder wrote: > Yes, the mental discipline I have. Here is the situation: > > grad student + beginning of the year(books, fees) + mortgage on own place > = no scope. :( Ahh, that's why I didn't go to college. I like money far too much. :) > The pricetag on this 465 was the real selling point. I shall lement this > for many days. So... anyone besides tek? I've always used Tektronix > scopes (well, a few heathkits too) and have always been impressed, but > I've never used anyone else's. HP makes good scopes...but Tek is really the one you want, IMO. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD

24 years, 10 months

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Tek 465 as a hobby scope?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On August 27, Dan Linder wrote: > Alas - I lost out on it. The Fates decided it should not be so. Very bad news... :-( > For the future, what are some good scopes (sort of in the Tek 465 > quality/feature range)? Tek 453, 454, 465, 475...453/454 has a smaller CRT but is very sharp and nice...If you can afford a newer scope, many of the 22xx family are cheaply made (still good, but not the same quality as the older scopes)...the 24xx are VERY nice. I used a 2445 at work about ten years ago; I loved it. I picked up a like-new 2465A on eBay for about $1100 a few months ago, from a reputable dealer with a warranty. It is a truly wonderful scope. If portability isn't a concern, the 7000 series mainframe-based scopes are of very high quality, and the plugins are very easy to find. You can even get things like spectrum analyzer and logic analyer plugins for them. I like the 7704 and 7904...the second digit is the bandwidth (7904 is like 500MHz if memory serves) and the last digit is the number of slots for plugins...the 4-slotters can generally take two horizontal and two vertical plugins. The spectrum and logic analyzer plugins take up two or three slots. The displays are nice and sharp, and the construction is solid...just keep the plugin contacts clean. > This results from me not taking money to a HAMfest - trying to curb my > spending, since i never find anything great - until the scope that I lost > out on. Call me opinionated (hell, who wouldn't!) but mental discipline is the answer here...alwyas bring as much money as you can, and if you don't find a killer deal, let your MIND keep you from spending...not the absence of cash. Of course, developing that level of discipline is difficult. I *always* leave a hamfest with an empty wallet. 8-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD

24 years, 10 months

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Just curious about injection molding or casting

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

Yes, model railroaders sometimes make molds (usuall using silicon RTV) and castings of small parts. Check your local hobby shop or www.micromark.com (also a good source of small tools for the hobby). -----Original Message----- From: McFadden, Mike [mailto:mmcfadden@cmh.edu] Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 12:28 PM To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' Subject: RE:Just curious about injection molding or casting Plastic/metal replacement computer parts, I'll bet the train hobbyists have some knowledge about recreating metal/plastic parts for computers. I have seen articles about how they have created/machined/cast entire trains from raw materials. Pointer to site for manufacturer of miniature machine tools. http://www.sherline.com/ Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

24 years, 10 months

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Okay, not exactly within timeframe for classic, but...

by mbg＠world.std.com

does anyone know how to tell if an I-Opener is of the kind which can be hacked? Can one tell from the serial number of does the machine physically have to be opened? Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

24 years, 10 months

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Solbourne VME Boards

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On August 27, Zach Malone wrote: > first board is labled Heurikon on both of its tabs, and has the following > lables over its connectors: Serial, FPI, FMS 1 2 3 4 (over a set of LEDs), > reset, and SCSI. It seems to be a Motorola M68000 board of some sort as it > has two small chips on it which are labled MC68000R10 and MC68450RC10, with Not sure what this one is...likely a SCSI host adapter but perhaps more. The 68450 is a DMA controller. > further markings below them. Board number two is a 6U VME card with 4 large > AMD branded chips on it, and two sub boards which lie flat on the VME card, > it has a 10 pin plug on the back (just pins, it is 5x2) which extends from a > daughter card which has an AMD chip labled Am29000 - 16GC, a minidin > connector, 2 small LEDs, and then 4 large bulb like objects, which are > alternatingly black, and red, the connectors for those are labled AT&T. I This is a FDDI interface...Interphase 4211, most likely. The bulblike objects are rubber covers over ST fiber connectors. > then have 4 boards which are covered with chips, the majority of which are > TI or Philips (?) branded. The ones which are in sockets have MX07?? or > MX7?? (with ? representing any number) on them. These boards have no > external connectors, nor back plates. Finally, I have a board with the Not sure what this one is. > Solbourne logo on one tab, and MUX on the other, and it then has 3 50 pin > cables along the rear. It seems highly likely to me that this is a Xylogics > 781 16-port MUX. That sounds correct. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD

24 years, 10 months

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miniscribes 3085

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

Pointer to miniscribe 3085 http://www.thetechpage.com/cgi-bin/db/db.cgi?displayItem=1832 heads 7 cylinders 1170 sectors 17 Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

24 years, 10 months

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Solbourne VME Boards

by Diff＠Mac.com

Hello, I was just working on my Solbourne 5/600, and I decided to take a look at its VME boards. Unfortunatly, the Solbourne Shack webpage offers little information on identifying boards, and the few images of VME boards are no longer availible. So here are some of the boards I am curious about. The first board is labled Heurikon on both of its tabs, and has the following lables over its connectors: Serial, FPI, FMS 1 2 3 4 (over a set of LEDs), reset, and SCSI. It seems to be a Motorola M68000 board of some sort as it has two small chips on it which are labled MC68000R10 and MC68450RC10, with further markings below them. Board number two is a 6U VME card with 4 large AMD branded chips on it, and two sub boards which lie flat on the VME card, it has a 10 pin plug on the back (just pins, it is 5x2) which extends from a daughter card which has an AMD chip labled Am29000 - 16GC, a minidin connector, 2 small LEDs, and then 4 large bulb like objects, which are alternatingly black, and red, the connectors for those are labled AT&T. I then have 4 boards which are covered with chips, the majority of which are TI or Philips (?) branded. The ones which are in sockets have MX07?? or MX7?? (with ? representing any number) on them. These boards have no external connectors, nor back plates. Finally, I have a board with the Solbourne logo on one tab, and MUX on the other, and it then has 3 50 pin cables along the rear. It seems highly likely to me that this is a Xylogics 781 16-port MUX. Anyone know what these cards are? Zach Malone

24 years, 10 months

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Are office people really that, umm shall we say...slow?

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

Here's a little help, I think :-) ... ! > For those of you who think it's unneccessary, let's see how ! > you do with ! > the connectors on the PC/XT on my desk : ! ! I'll try, but I don't know what a DA or DC is. Are they the proper ! names for what many people would still call a db connector? ! ! > ! > Slot 1 : Female DA15, Female DB25 ! ! don't know 15 - joystick port, 25 is printer port, and I bet these go to the same card as slot 5, the DB 9 and DB25 serial ports... ! > Slot 2 : 6 Ribbon cables come out (a) ending in a male ! > DC37, (b,c) ending ! > in female DB25s, (d,e) ending in male DB25s (narrower ! > ribbon cables than ! > b,c), (f) ending in a female DC37 ! ! No idea, but from you, probably something homemade :-) Hard drive controller? ! > ! > Slot 3 : Pushbutton switch, Mini-DIN 6 ! ! The switch might be a reset, but no idea on the mini-din 6, ! M$ bus mouse ! perhaps? ! ! > ! > Slot 4 : RCA phono socket, female DE9 ! ! That's your video card I think. ! ! > ! > Slot 5 : Female DE9, female DB25 ! ! serial ports ! ! > ! > Slot 6 : Female DC37 ! ! again, I 'm not sure what a DC connector is.... is it a floppy ! controller? I can't recall the pin count. ! ! > Slot 7 : Male DB25 ! ! parallel port? ! > ! > Slot 8 : Female DC37 ! ! a second floppy controller? ! ! > ! > Also on the back : another male DB25, female 5 pin DIN, ! male and female ! > IEC mains connectors. ! ! The DB25 could be another parallel port, the din 5 your ! keyboard, and I ! don't know what IEC is, but since you say mains I assume that's your ! power cord and monitor power points. ! ! > I'll be impressed if anyone identifies all of the above. ! ! I might do a better jon, if I actually had the computer in ! front of me, ! even if I didn't pop the top. ! ! Chad Fernandez So, how did we do? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years, 10 months

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3 chip video output (OT, I guess)

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

This is great, Tony, thanks! I will try to find a handful of those SAA5245 chips. I work primarily with PICs, so an I2C interface is very handy for me. You rock. -Dave On August 27, Tony Duell wrote: > I forgot to answer an earlier message asking just what the 3 chips were > that you could use to get video output from a microcontroller system > > 1) An SAA5243 (for the UK/Europe -- I think the 60Hz-vertical version is > the SAA5245) This is actually a teletext display IC for televisions, and > is controlled via an I2C bus (2 wires). The nice feature is that the > display memory can be read/written via the I2C bus, so it can be used as > a general-purpose video display. Actually, this chips is probably > discontinued, but there are more recent chips with the same features, and > anyway the SAA5243 is easy to get either from scrap TVs (the > Thomson/Ferguson ICC5 chassis, for example) or from TV spares places. > > 2) An 8K*8 static RAM, like a 6264 > > 3) Some way of generating a 6MHz clock. A 74LS04 + a crystal, for example. > > You might want to put some kind of buffer chip on the outputs of the > SAA5243 (I used a 74LS541 when I built something like this) which would > increase the chip count to 4 chips. > > The I2C bus needs 2 lines from the microcontroller (clock and data). Each > line should be capable of being driven as an open-collector output, and > read as an input. The port lines on a PIC are fine. You don't need access > to the microcontroller bus. > > You get a 40*25 text display (upper and lower case) with teletext-style > block graphics and serial colour attributes. Not bad for 3 chips and 2 > port lines. > > There was an article on doing this in Datafile (HPCC (UK HP calculator > user club) journal) in 1998/1999 (either the last issue of 1998 or the > first issue of 1999 I think). > > -tony -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD

24 years, 10 months

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Just curious about injection molding or casting

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

Plastic/metal replacement computer parts, I'll bet the train hobbyists have some knowledge about recreating metal/plastic parts for computers. I have seen articles about how they have created/machined/cast entire trains from raw materials. Pointer to site for manufacturer of miniature machine tools. http://www.sherline.com/ Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

24 years, 10 months

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Paint Curing WAS:Re:Room for Collections

by pete.rickard＠carlingtech.com

"Iggy Drougge" <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote: > The device in the kitchen for baking small spray-painted articles > can be used for pizza and muffins. [Pete Turnbull] I read in Electronic Musician, or some similar mag, of a way to get a professional enamel finish on metal 19" rack plates: the author said to place the spray-painted piece into an oven set at 200 deg F, turning off the heat after closing the door. Do you have any experiences on getting a smooth, durable finish, etc. ? TIA, -Pete - - - - - Pete Rickard Carling Technologies Plainville CT [USA]

24 years, 10 months

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Finds in Houston

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

I spent the last 4 days down in Houston and had a chance to shop for about 2 hours during the trip. I picked up the following: 1. Commodore CBM Model 8032 2. Commodore CBM Model 4040s Dual drive floppy disk unit. 3. Itellivision Computer adapter model 4182 with attached keyboard. 4. IBM 3299-002 5. AMIGA 1010 ext. 3.5 FD 6. Timex Sinclair 2068 in the box 7. Sega-CD model 1690 There were a couple more items but they are not yet 10 so I will list them another time. I wish I had a little more time to look on this trip every store I went into found something. Keep computing.

24 years, 10 months

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more PDP-11 / PDP-12 scans up

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

Various PDP-12/LINC brochures: http://www.decdocs.org/docs/pdp12 An 11/23 brochure: http://www.decdocs.org/docs/11-23-brochure More stuff on the way (price lists, etc). This is just what I got done the other night. 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net Austin, TX

24 years, 10 months

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