- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> >Also, not every programmer produced from personal computing is a bad > >programmer. I've seen quite a number of such people that should be > >forbidden from ever invoking a text editor, but we're not all that way. > >I may not have a lot of field experience (I'm not even out of college > >yet), but I'm a damn good programmer. > > As Iggy mentioned a bit ago, Demo programmers still practice > assembler. I would imagine that there are quite a few talented > programmers in that field. I do not mind that programmers vote Democratic... Seriously, what's a demo programmer? A programmer who writes only demo software? As in mock-ups? Prototypes? And I hate to pick nits, but no one can "practice assembler" anymore than they can "practice compiler". They _write_ assembly language; if it must be shortened, it should be to "assembly", not "assembler". But if I'm stumbling into a British usage vs. American usage, please forgive me, I pick nits, but prefer not to be an errant pedant. And I would not consider people writing in assembly language to be at the bottom rungs, at least not by virture of the language they're using. In fact, I am locally renknowned as one of if not the best assembly language programmer available (again, locally). Too bad the demand has dried up. Regards, -dq

24 years, 9 months

36
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Two classic sightings

by spectre＠stockholm.ptloma.edu

Spotted a TRS-80 CoCo of some kind in the rehab centre at Loma Linda University. It apparently was (is?) used for EMG testing to check peripheral nerve impulses. Also, from the MCA reissue of Steely Dan's "Gaucho", in the liner notes: "That's when the business with the computer started. Roger Nichols had this toy -- we thought of it as a toy -- but one day he came to work and told us that the toy had become a man ... who, in the absence of a useable track after a zillion tries with 'real bands' could nicely simulate the most elusive elements of the basic track that we would need to bring our little song into the world, i.e., drums and maybe a simple keyboard part of some sort, and that's all. Because, once we had that -- the toy, the man, the track-- we could do all the rest with little or no problemo, thank you very much. Unfortunately, at this primitive stage of the evolution of the computer and its requisite software, even the most minute event had to be programmed in the gnarly and unforgiving 8085 assembly language, in which all relevant parameters had to be described in its baffling hexagesimal [sic -- guess they were too stoned to count properly ;-)] base system, which ultimately became the only language Roger Nichols spoke or understood, at least for a time ... And so was born the era of sampled drums and sequenced music -- 'the birth of the cruel' as we now call it. History, read it and weep." (Don Fagen [lead vocals] and Walter Becker) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Work harder! Millions on welfare depend on you! ----------------------------

24 years, 9 months

3
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TANDEM CYCLONE for sale

by gunther＠aurora.regenstrief.org

Hi, I know a place where they're selling a TANDEM CYCLONE mainframe: * Description: Clycone Mainframe Computer Cabinets with Himalaya K series Disk drives. Data Files and hard drives have been removed. * MFG: TANDEM * Model: CYCLONE * Condition: Used - Good * Size: 24x24x50 * Weight: 700 * Year of Manufacture: 1993 it's in Kansas City, MO. Starting bid is $50, increment $50, reserve not yet met :-(. 8 days to go. No, it's not ebay. Don't bid against each other. I'm not interested myself, neither in the computer nor in the sale of it. Just thought it may be a good deal. Let me know if you're interested. cheers, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org

24 years, 9 months

1
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Apple II 800K Diskettes?

by mythtech＠Mac.com

> It will work fine as long as it's an older Mac. Most of your >PPC based Mac's, especially those running OS 8.6 and newer, have >trouble with the 400k and 800k formats. I have had some formating problems on PPC macs and 800k disk. The format seems to work, but the disk is usually unreadable in an older 800k drive (1.4mb drives seem ok). Reading and writing to a preformatted 800k disk has never been a problem. So I either format a disk in an older non PPC machine, or I also have a blank 800k disk image that I can copy to a disk, that always seems to work fine (the image was created off a disk that was formatted on a non PPC mac). 400k is a totally different issue. A: I believe the drives themselves may be incapable of working with 400k, but more importantly B: starting with OS 8.0 (I think it was 8.0), MFS file support was dropped. No MFS, no 400k disks. 800k disks use HFS so there isn't a problem there. Of course, I keep a handy dandy LC kicking around for just this very issue (the LC connects nicely to my ethernet network, and runs 7.1 so it will read and write 400, 800, 1.4mb, DOS and ProDOS disks, giving me access to all of the above on my iMac). -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 9 months

1
0
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Icom Attache up for auction

by r_beaudry＠hotmail.com

Hello all, I never thought I'd say this here, but then I also never thought I'd see what I saw on 09/11... My ICOM Attache is up for auction on eBay. It is an "Auction for America" item, which means that I do not see a single penny of proceeds. I have elected for the winning bid to be donated to the September 11th Fund. The Attache is NOT complete, so see the description and pictures for more details... It does include some documentation and schematics http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1278512829 It was hard to give this up, but it was a cakewalk compared to what others have lost. Bidding was already up to $202.50 this morning, but I hope someone will go higher... Also, some of you might consider doing the same. I didn't have a spare $202 in cash, but I did have this computer to donate the proceeds... Rich B.

24 years, 9 months

1
0
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Zilog 8000

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On September 24, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I used to have a terminal like the one in the picture. I had it before > I knew much about computers. Mid to late 80s, I think. I found it in a > trash dump, on a farm, while my dad and I were putting up a tree stand, > on some property owned by the father, of a lady at church. I wish I > still had it, at least then I could document exactly what it was. Hmm...They look like Lear-Siegler ADM-3A terminals to me... -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD

24 years, 9 months

2
1
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HP & Compaq

by dittman＠dittman.net

> So what's everyone think about the newest merger, between HP > and Compaq? It sure explains why Compaq killed Alpha. -- Eric Dittman dittman(a)dittman.net

24 years, 9 months

19
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Apple II 800K Diskettes?

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>I just acquired an Apple IIgs (thanks Rich!) and am anxious to try it out. I >have downloaded the system software from the Apple site but an unsure how to >go about making 800K disks for use on the IIgs as none of my local computer >stores stock 800K floppies. Is it possible to cover over the hole that tells >the drive that it is a HD disk and format it as an 800K disk? Will the 800K >drive on the IIgs be able to read it? Or do I have to find a source for real >800K media? I have used HDs as DDs before (specifically on the Mac, so it is relivant to your situation, as it is dealing with going from 1.4 to 800 or 400k). I can tell you that it does work, but not reliably. The data seems to fail over time, not so much length of time, but read/write time. Unfortuantly, the length varies greatly (and seems format dependant, not disk dependant). Sometimes they work for a dozen or so uses, other times they might work for 100 or so. Once they start to fail, reformatting them seems to refresh the usability. I have learned that it simply isn't reliable enough except to use for short term temporary work. HOWEVER, the good news is, MEI Micro still seems to sell DD disks. They only sell them in a 500 pack for $50, which is kind of a bummer, but at least they can be bought. You can find them on MEI's web site (but not in their print catalog) at http://www.mei-microcenter.com. I have used their floppy disks in the past and have never had any problems with them. Last time I bought their disks, I believe they were actually generic labeled Sony's, but that was some years ago, and I would guess they get their's >from lowest cost suppliers, so that might have changed by now. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 9 months

1
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Ohio Scientific computer rescue underway

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

Got an email from someone saying he saw my OSI C1P in my online collection and he's got 4 of them in various configurations he will be sending to me. I can't wait to see what I've got. Would be cool if they had disk drives and such. I think they are all basic C1P models though.

24 years, 9 months

1
0
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Archiving floppies?

by kees.stravers＠iae.nl

On 2001-09-22 classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org said to kees.stravers(a)iae.nl >Does anyone have any recommendations on software (preferably free) >for archiving old DOS floppies? What I'd like to do is to be able >to make disk images of all (okay, maybe just 'many') of the old DOS >floppies I have so that if they disks get trashed or the bits fall >off I can remake 'em. The DISKCOPY command from DRDOS 6 and 7 can do this, e.g. DISKCOPY A: C:\FLOPPY.IMG and the other way around works too of course. The DRDOS DISKCOPY command exe file also works under msdos. Kees -- kees.stravers(a)iae.nl http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ http://www.vaxarchive.org Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered

24 years, 9 months

2
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Source for technical manuals?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Sep 24, 9:00, Tony Eros wrote: > I'm trying to remember a web site I used to visit that had a number of old > computer and instrument service guides for sale. I bought a Heathkit EC-1 > assembly manual from them. Now, I can't seem to recall the name of the > place -- doesn't look like I saved the address in my browser bookmarks, > either. I know it's not abebooks or alibris -- any suggestions? This rings a bell, and I thought I had something of the sort bookmarked. These may not be exactly what you're looking for but they may help: http://www.manualserver.com/ http://njcc.com/~hjohnson/ http://www.instruction-manuals.co.uk/cattable.htm http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~itda/ http://w3.trib.com/~rollo/index.html or http://www.bomarc.org/ http://www.accesscom.com/~gamba/manuals2.html http://www.sarasota-electronics.com/samsrch.htm http://members.tripod.com/NRWILLIAMSON/HEATHMAN.htm http://www.circuitarchive.co.uk/heath.htm http://www.manualman.com/products.htm I expect a web search would turn up lots more. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 9 months

1
0
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microcoding a PC into a PDP-11 (was: RE: Classic Computers vs. Classic Computing)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Sep 14, 19:03, Jonathan Engdahl wrote: [ Pete wrote : ] > > Why not burn it into (EP)ROM? 64K for the opcode jump table fits in a > > 27512, you maybe want about the same again for the code, and that > > would fit > > in some devices used for BIOS ROMs these days. Or put it on a SIMM or > > DIMM. > That actually was my first idea. That way, the hacked PC would be almost > indistinguishable from a real PDP-11. The hard drive would contain an exact > image of a PDP-11 disk, with no underlay of PC-ish partitioning. > > But I'm not sure how much ROM space is available on modern PC mainboards. Does it matter very much? There's at least 64K bytes for the BIOS ROM and often twice that or more. Besides, that's why I suggested a SIMM or DIMM. What I had in mind was a bootstrap in the "BIOS" ROM socket and an EPROM or two on a home-made SIMM/DIMM with the main code. > You can probably tell my x86 coding skills are really rusty. Most of my x86 > programming has been either on an 80188 (many years ago) or in C. But, you > get the idea. Mine are worse :-) 80x86 is one of the few common architectures I've never written any amount of assembly language for. > Lots of detail unresolved: condition codes, for example. My suggestion, > forget about them until you get to a branch instruction. Use the native x86 > condition codes. The architectures are probably sufficiently similar. In the > example above you might have to insert "and bx,bx" or whatever the x86 > equivalent is after the MOV to set the condition codes PDP-11 style. (I > think MOV sets the N and Z flag, right?) Sets N and Z according to the value left in the destination, clears V, leaves C unaffected. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 9 months

25
65
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Zilog 8000

by Diff＠Mac.com

Hello, A friend of mine recently offered to get me a Zilog System 8000 system that he says is currently acting as a plant stand. Does anyone have any information on these systems, and if it is not a larger machine (I am interested in workstation and mini class machines), would anyone have an interest in this box? Zach

24 years, 9 months

4
3
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FYI: Proper flag uses per Public Law 93-344

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On September 23, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Just for those who aren't aware of the proper uses and display of the US > flag in this moment of everyone just having to display it lately, here's a > well done resource for reference. This is a guideline made from US Public > Law 93-344 and done in a layman's format so it's easy to grasp and use. It > might even be a good idea for local newspapers to print a variation of this > once to inform people that don't know that they may be "doing it wrong" > > http://www.state.wi.us/agencies/dva/museum/flaguse.html For those who think our government isn't overstaffed and overflowing with people who have too much free time on their hands...this should erase all doubt once and for all. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD

24 years, 9 months

5
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Archiving floppies?

by RCini＠congressfinancial.com

Gordon: I use two tools. 2FILE/2FLOPPY, a freeware utility from PC Magazine and written in the early 90's. Alternatively, I use Microsoft's READIMG/WRITIMG programs. The Microsoft programs I don't believe are available publicly -- I got them from one of the early Chicago beta CDs I think. I'm sure that there are other more modern utilities available on shareware.com or download.com. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: Gordon Zaft [mailto:zaft@azstarnet.com] Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2001 5:52 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Archiving floppies? Does anyone have any recommendations on software (preferably free) for archiving old DOS floppies? What I'd like to do is to be able to make disk images of all (okay, maybe just 'many') of the old DOS floppies I have so that if they disks get trashed or the bits fall off I can remake 'em. I'm assuming I'd probably be making these archives from a Windoze box although DOS or even FreeBSD or Linux is a possibility. Thanks in advance. GZ

24 years, 9 months

1
0
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CPU design at the gate level

by alan.pearson＠cramer.com

Thanks to all who replied with book refs for bitslice processors & CPU design, time for a trip to the city library this lunchtime :) Cheers Al.

24 years, 9 months

1
0
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Archiving Floppies

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

Michael B. Brutman wrote: > For copyprotected diskettes I'm using Teledisk, although I don't > trust it entirely. Teledisk is also good for damaged diskettes, I stopped trusting TD once I found that it would not restore 5-1/4" 360k floppies on my machine - if only I'd found out before archiving 50-odd of them that way. It seemed OK with the 3-1/2" floppies, but I'd stopped trusting it by then! > which the raw binary formats can't handle. (The damage looks like > copy protection.) The downside to teledisk is the portability ... > I'll need a DOS machine forever to read the data. I don't have this > problem with the raw binary images. Exactly. I'd prefer a program that was able to cope with any MS-DOS floppy and had a documented "image" format. I'm still looking, although the DR-DOS DISKCOPY is probably what I will use once I start again. Antonio

24 years, 9 months

1
0
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OT: Anybody have a rom image of a modern TI graphing calculator?

by fernande＠internet1.net

I want to run a TI calculator emulator on my Windows computer. I need a rom image for the specific calculator I want to emulate to do that. You're supposed to download the rom from your own calculator. My main reason for wanting to run the emulator, However, is to try out one of TI's newer calculators BEFORE I buy one. I have an 85, but I'd like to try out a 86, or a 92/92Plus. Do any of you already run emulators and have a rom image you could send? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA

24 years, 9 months

4
5
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Zilog 8000

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On September 23, Zach Malone wrote: > A friend of mine recently offered to get me a Zilog System 8000 system > that he says is currently acting as a plant stand. Does anyone have any > information on these systems, and if it is not a larger machine (I am > interested in workstation and mini class machines), would anyone have an > interest in this box? I ran one for years. Whaddya wanna know? If you don't take it, I certainly will. I regret having sold mine about 10-12 years ago. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD

24 years, 9 months

2
1
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FYI: Proper flag uses per Public Law 93-344

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On September 23, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Why? You think we shouldn't have guidelines for the flag? It's not > like the flag police are going to come and inspect your flag. That's not the problem. The problem is the fact that we PAID some idiot suit to come up with this crock. I've always maintained that people like this (with too much free time and the need to look like they're "doing something") need some REAL problems to deal with. Now that they've GOT some real problems, the idiots who can't figure out what to do are just going to make even bigger asses of themselves. -Dave PS - No, I'm actually in a great mood today. -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD

24 years, 9 months

3
2
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Archiving Floppies

by mbbrutman＠magnaspeed.net

For DOS floppies, I make a disk image and store the files to zip. The disk image is in case I missed anything, or if the diskette is bootable. The zip file is for normal file manipulation. With CD-ROM space so cheap, why not do both? The particular archiver I use is dd under linux, or fdimage, loaddskf, or any other archiver that makes a binary image of the diskette. No compression or meta data ... I can tell what type of disk it was by the resulting size, and I can compress with zip or gzip. The raw binary images are mountable under Linux. For copyprotected diskettes I'm using Teledisk, although I don't trust it entirely. Teledisk is also good for damaged diskettes, which the raw binary formats can't handle. (The damage looks like copy protection.) The downside to teledisk is the portability ... I'll need a DOS machine forever to read the data. I don't have this problem with the raw binary images. Has anybody used CopyIIPC and Snatchit? That's supposed to work too. It's an old pirating technique, but it is applicable to archiving copyprotected disks.

24 years, 9 months

2
1
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updated panels page

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

I've updated the panels page at the House of VAX <http://www.mcmanis.com/chuck/computers/vaxen/> (about 1/3 down the page is the link to the panels) to include the VAX 4000/300,400,500,... panel. So if you're wondering what the things do on this panel here is a handy reference. --Chuck

24 years, 9 months

1
0
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Bringing Tektronix 4051s back to life

by gessler＠ucla.edu

All you Tekkies out there... I just pulled my old Tektronix 4051 out of the garage (no I don't want to sell it), plugged it in, turned it on and ... and ... and ... Well all the lights lit, the memory CRT bloomed, and that was that. Screen wouldn't clear and the machine wouldn't respond to any keystrokes. It's frozen... Well it worked fine when I put it in storage and I was wondering if anyone had any experience getting these to work after years without juice? I seem to recall that the machine goes through a self-test on power up: the "busy" and "i/o" lights light and after a few seconds they go out and a square cursor appears on the screen. Does anyone remember what the self-test looks for? I'm thinking it may try to trigger the tape to rewind and wait for the results. I don't know why any electronic part would fail after years of storage but would seem likely that a tape drive motor might seize up and stop the machine from completing its test. It would be an easy matter to free up a motor and a more difficult matter to diagnose a parts failure. Any ideas before I take the thing apart? Thanks in advance... Nick Nicholas Gessler gessler(a)ucla.edu Box 706, 22148 Monte Vista Drive Topanga, CA 90290-0706 310.455.1630 (home office) 310.825.4728 (UCLA office) 310.825.7428 (UCLA fax) Special Projects, UCLA Center for Digital Humanities Founding Co-Director, UCLA Center for Social Complexity (a.k.a. Center for Computational Social Science) Founding Co-Director, UCLA Social Interfaces & Networks / Advanced Programmable Simulations & Environments (SINAPSE) Instructor, Geography, Computational Geography Track: Simulations, Cartography, Artificial Culture In preparation - "Artificial Culture - Experiments in Synthetic Anthropology." Web Portal: http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~gessler

24 years, 9 months

3
2
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Central Point Option Board vs Deluxe Option Board

by mark_k＠totalise.co.uk

Hi, A couple of people requested the Option Board Software. I created image files of the original floppies and uploaded them to http://www.btinternet.com/~mark_k/Option_Board_v5.4_3.5.bin.gz http://www.btinternet.com/~mark_k/Option_Board_v5.4_5.25.bin.gz After downloading decompress using gzip, then use your favourite disk-image- writing program to write to a (formatted) floppy disk. -- Mark

24 years, 9 months

1
0
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FYI: Proper flag uses per Public Law 93-344

by rhblakeman＠kih.net

Just for those who aren't aware of the proper uses and display of the US flag in this moment of everyone just having to display it lately, here's a well done resource for reference. This is a guideline made from US Public Law 93-344 and done in a layman's format so it's easy to grasp and use. It might even be a good idea for local newspapers to print a variation of this once to inform people that don't know that they may be "doing it wrong" http://www.state.wi.us/agencies/dva/museum/flaguse.html

24 years, 9 months

1
0
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Report from CARA Hamfest

by wh.sudbrink＠verizon.net

Went to the Columbia (Maryland) ARA hamfest this morning. By far, the most successful, in vintage computer terms, hamfest I've ever been to. Arrived at 6am. Dark... Walked around through the little bit of fog, squinting at the tailgating stuff already out. Silly me, forgot to bring a flashlight. Talked to some people and got a line, maybe two, on an ASR 33. As the sky gradually brightened, made my first score, a box of S-100 cards and motherboards. The guy wanted $20. I was so amazed to find anything that interesting that I forgot to haggle and handed him a twenty. Next I found a large pile of 50 pin twisted pair rainbow wire (perfect for 8 inch floppy cables) for $1. It quickly got lighter and the fog burned off. Now I could see the following of classiccmp interest (all of which I passed on): A pile of 20 or so Commodore 64s with a sign "2 for $5" A large collection of SGI boxes, Indigos, etc. A large collection of Sun boxes and monitors. A number of Atari boxes of various makes. A table with 10 or so old Mac boxes and a Next slab. A couple of CoCos. A lot of tailgaters were still setting up, but it was 8:30 and I had to leave. On my way out, a flash of "S-100 blue" caught my eye. In an unattended box labeled "project enclosures, $5 for the box, slip money in drivers side window" was a really nice, clean NorthStar 5 1/4" disk enclosure with power supply, but no drive. I didn't need all the other Radio Shack style project boxes that were also in the box, so I just took the N* box and put $2 in the window. I hope some other CC'ers made it to this one, I'll definitely be back next year.

24 years, 9 months

1
0
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changing Aviion monitor refresh setting

by red＠bears.org

1) Power on the machine. 2) Wait approximately ten minutes. 3) Press 'reset'. 4) Wait a further thirty seconds. 5) Type <CTRL>-V on the console keyboard. The machine should beep. 6) Type '1' to set the video system to 70 Hz sync or '2' for 60 Hz. additionally, the default mode for the serial console (which the system will automatically use if there is no keyboard plugged in at power-on) is: 9600-E-7-1 Good luck. Hopefully this will help somebody get his Aviion going. ok r.

24 years, 9 months

2
5
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Organization tips?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On September 19, Chuck McManis wrote: > So does anyone have a preferred way in which they organize all the many > hundreds of bits of stuff you need when you are keeping older computers alive? For storing stuff in boxes...I avoid cardboard nowadays...I've been replacing them with those plastic "tubs" that one can purchase at discount stores. They last longer, are waterproof, and more stackable. They've also considerably cut down on the dust level in the house. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD

24 years, 9 months

6
5
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Mild OT: fixing an eMate

by spectre＠stockholm.ptloma.edu

I'm looking for parts to repair a dead? eMate 300. The screen is basically cracked in half! Fortunately, the rest of the unit is intact. For those who don't know what one is, this is basically a Newton-based laptop and a very nice little machine. I'm scoping around for parts but was wondering if someone had a dead one with an intact LCD they might be willing to part with. Ironically, it was damaged in a classroom demonstration of how difficult to break it was. The professor nailed it the first time. :-/ -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu -- In memory of Howard Caine --------------------------------------------------

24 years, 9 months

1
0
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Mainframe stuff...

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On September 19, jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > BTW a stupid question: What is a 8700? Is it SBI based like the > 11/78[05] and 86[05]0, or is it XMI / VAXBI like the 85x0 or 6k VAXen? > I asume that a 8700 is a 8600 in a biger enclosure? The 8700 and the 8600 are very different machines. The 8700 uses VAXBI, and is mounted in a chasiss similar in size to that of the 8600. I don't think there's any XMI in there. Incidentally, the 8700 can be turned into an 8800 by plugging a second CPU card set into the machine. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD

24 years, 9 months

9
13
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Address Decoding for Dummies! (was: SPDT Dip Switches...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Sep 22, 13:11, Roger Merchberger wrote: > I did mention that I was primarily a softee-ware guy -- and when > dealing with chips I have a tendency to think of them *as software* -- > like: if you try to write to a ROM, what happens? Nothing. (duh...) Well, not unless you use "more interesting" voltages :-) > I > looked at the chip specs for the demux, and you have inputs & outputs... In > my mind (at first), your suggestion was "ramming 5V down an output port" > and sometimes I have to stop & think that "those ports are just a bunch of > gates jammed together on a chip to serve one purpose" and doing stuff like > that is not a "Bad Thing (TM)." :-) > My board isn't a "complete" board -- it's to be designed to make > experimenting much easier by having flexible on-board address decoding, and > (at least for my purposes) I want "one address per switch", so I'm not sure > if the MUX suggestion is what I want. As of right now (but I'm still > researching CoCo memory maps) I'm looking to have an 8K ROM socket at the > "normal" location ($C000-DFFF) w/jumper as to whether or not it will > auto-start (jumpering the Cart signal to the Q line) and I'm looking at > having the address decoding for my I/O ports at $FF50-3 & $FF60-3, but if I > want *just* $FF51 & $FF53 to be decoded & $FF50 & $FF52 to be ignored, I > want to be able to switch them individually. > (Originally, my design was just going to have 1 address decoded from each > "bank", but then I realized that if I wanted to interface "most anything" > like a PIA, UART or a FDC that it wouldn't work.) Let's see if I'm interpreting this correctly. I think you want to be able to decode addresses, but sometimes you want to be able to provide (let's say) two "enable" outputs, each active for a separate group of addresses (maybe two different ranges of four addresses each), and sometimes you want to be able to provide more finely selected enables (maybe responding to only one address in each range). I can see why you'd want to that if one day you are using a UART that needs four addresses and another time you use a a PIO or VIA that needs 8 or 16 addresses. A couple of ideas that come to mind are using a PROM or PAL to do the decoding. A PAL or GAL would probably operate faster than a PROM, but it might be easier to program a PROM (depending on how used you are to building tables for PROMs, logic rules for PALs, and what programming tolls you have access to). For example, suppose you have a PROM with 8 address and 4 data outputs. You could fill it with data such that certain data outputs were at the appropriate "active" level if (and only if) 6 of the address lines were in a certain state, ie were driven with a certain address(es). By tailoring the data appropriately, you could arrange it so that the outputs took account of all 6 address bits, or just (say) four). The other two address bits I'd use as a function selector: if both are low, the output is active for a range of addresses (only 4 bits significant); if one is high, respond to the first two addresses in the range; if the other is high, respond to the upper part of the range; if both high, respond only to the highest single address in the range. Or something like that, to suit the job in hand. Depending on the exact requirement, you might still be able to do this with a MUX or two. A multiplexer is a very useful general-purpose logic element, widely used as a circuit building block, not just for the obvious "if the clock phase is high, select the refresh/video addresses; if low, select the CPU addresses" sort of operation. > For anyone here who does their own hardware designing, what software do you > use? I've tried "Protel 99 SE" and CircuitMaker 6 (student version) -- and > a few others, and I must say that I'm not keen on most anything I've tried > compared to "good ol' AutoCad". I use an assortment. Often I use the drawing package from RISC OS on one of my Acorn machines. From time to time I've used 'pcb' on a Unix system. > Oh, I've found a really good site to purchase all manners of circuit board > "stuff" w/really good prices, too: > http://www.web-tronics.com/printed-circuit-board-supplies.html That's encouraging. Completely home-made PCBs seem to be a relativley rare occurrence in the US, at least compared to here. Over here, almost every secondary school, college, and university makes PCBs and there are still magazines publishing designs which enthusiasts photocopy onto film (OHP acetates, aka viewgraph foils for you colonials) and then apply to photoresist copperclad board. In the USA, as far as I can see, most people tend to pass the artwork or plotfiles to professional PCB houses to be made up. Lots of people do that here too (I'd probably not try to etch my own board for a really densely packed device using PGAs, for example) but there's still a strong tradition of using your own ferric chloride (not in the wife's best stainless steel sink, though). While there's nothing at all wrong with either method, I'd caution anyone trying it, that layout software (or dry transfers) tends to be suited to one or the other but not both. For the professional house, you are more likely to want nice round pads and not too many different sizes. You can use thin tracks, and pads with fairly small margins of copper round the holes. However, for truly homemade, handetched boards, there's usually more variation in the quality of the image transferred to the board, so very fine tracks are not such a good idea. Moreover, they won't normally have plated-through holes, so it's wise to use larger pads which won't come unstuck too easily -- often oval pads for ICs, which have a relatively large copper area yet are still narrow enough to leave a gap to get tracks between the pins. Lots of PCB layput software isn't capable of doing anything other than simple round (or square or symmetric octagonal) pads and is therefore much less useful for home-etched PCBs. No offence intended Roger, but I think your IC pads on the CoCo board are smaller than I'd personally be happy with for a home-etched and -drilled board without plated holes. (See http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/tmp/coco_pcb.jpg for a modified fragment) BTW, did you notice the tracks going through the pins on pins 13 and 14 of the leftmost LS244? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 9 months

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Excess Merchandise

by close＠2wongs.com

An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010922/b1fea9d0/at…

24 years, 9 months

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DEC Cables BC18Z BC23J

by KenzieM＠sympatico.ca

I finally found a cable and monitor for my VAXstation II/GPX! I haul it home then notice the label on the cable is BC23J not the BC18Z I was expecting. Is the BC23J just a newer version of the BC18Z? Or did my 3100 just get a colour monitor? I also picked up a DEC Multia today with Schematics! Collector of Vintage Computers (www.ncf.ca/~ba600)

24 years, 9 months

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Central Point Option Board vs Deluxe Option Board

by mark_k＠totalise.co.uk

Hi, I recently acquired a couple of Central Point Deluxe Option Boards with v5.4 of the software, plus manuals. (I haven't tested either card yet though.) This card allows protected and wierd-format disks to be read and written using a standard PC floppy drive. The supplied software supports Mac and Amiga disks as well as Apple II and Commodore. I guess the hardware is functionally similar to the Catweasel ISA card. Anyway, relating to that a few points: - If anyone needs disk images of the software (3?" 720K or 5?" 360K), I can upload them. My disks have not been written to since new. - What was the last version of the software? I read a newsgroup posting from 1997 that mentioned versions 5.5 and 6.0. - What differences are there between the Option Board and Deluxe Option Board? Looking at a picture in an eBay auction listing, the Option Board card appears to use quite a few discrete (TTL?) ICs, whereas the Deluxe card (or at least, the cards I have), uses an ASIC made by Toshiba. Does the ASIC simply replicate the discrete ICs, or contain extra functionality? - Has anyone reverse-engineered the hardware? Only the discrete-IC version would be feasible, I guess. In combination with disassembling the software, that should provide sufficient info to allow new software that accesses the Option Board to be written. - Has anyone reverse-engineered the disk image file format used by the software? I know someone has written a program to convert image files created from Apple II disks to plain disk images for use with Apple emulators; see http://www.ece.nwu.edu/~cbachmann/apple.html There is a description of some of the file format on that page. - Ideally, I'd like to contact someone who was involved with the development of either the hardware or software; maybe they could provide info on how it works. - On a similar note, what was the last version of Central Point's Copy II PC software? That program could be used to copy some protected PC disks without needing extra hardware. -- Mark

24 years, 9 months

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Archiving floppies?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On September 22, Gordon Zaft wrote: > Does anyone have any recommendations on software (preferably free) for > archiving old DOS floppies? What I'd like to do is to be able to make disk > images of all (okay, maybe just 'many') of the old DOS floppies I have so > that if they disks get trashed or the bits fall off I can remake 'em. I'm > assuming I'd probably be making these archives from a Windoze box although > DOS or even FreeBSD or Linux is a possibility. I'd just dd(1) them from to a file, gzip them, and save the disk images. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD

24 years, 9 months

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Announcing Aftermath Technologies

by vcf＠vintage.org

As a favor to the Alameda County Computer Resource Center in Oakland, California, who is hosting the VCF Archives as well as the upcoming VCF 5.0 (still to be rescheduled) I'm announcing their relatively new retail venture, Aftermath Technologies. Basically, anything they have in their warehouse is up for sale. They've taken pictures of a whole lot of stuff and have thrown them up on their website. Some of it is priced, most of it is "make an offer". They've got everything under the sun: all kinds of computers, peripherals, hard drives, disk drives, monitors, keyboards, mice, routers, hubs, chassis, printers, modems, scanners, cables, connectors, phones, VCRs, video equipment, books, manuals, software, random crap... Most of it is modern or semi-modern. Some of it is classic (lots of Apple ][s, TRS-80s, older Macs, etc). There's also lots of eclectic stuff in there too. These folks get in truckloads of gear every week. What doesn't get placed in schools and charities or sold gets shipped off to China for recycling. Your patronage contributes to a very good cause! Anything you buy will help them carry on their mission to refurbish old computers that get donated to schools and charities. Help educate the next generation! The URL is http://www.aftermathtechnologies.com. Make sure to check out the "Featured Items" catalog, as there are some gems in there. Don't be scared by the high pricing of some stuff. They just don't know what to ask for most of it. I tried to help them price some of the classic stuff but the changes have apparently not made it to the website yet. So go and DIG!!! There is lots and lots of stuff. If you are looking for just past modern PC or Mac bits then this is the place to go buy it from. http://www.aftermathtechnologies.com/ Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org

24 years, 9 months

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Moving VMS

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> >Now, I've got three functioning VMS 5.5 disks. And we've got a MicroVAX 3100 >without system disks. Would it be possible to just connect one of my spare >disks to the SCSI bus on the ?VAX or would the system crash and burn when it >couldn't find any graphics hardware and perhaps not the exact same peripheral >systems (these are disks from a VAXstation 3100, so they're close relatives)? Should not be a problem as I've dont it here. The better way is to start from a working system with a drive that is blank (for use in the target vax) and invoking VMSbuild to create a copy of VMS on the target disk. Then that target disk can be booted and proceed as if it was a regular VMSinstall. We used this trick years ago to put VMS on RD54s to install on new microvaxen (MV-II) faster than using TK50 ot MOP. Allison

24 years, 9 months

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microcoding a PC into a PDP-11 (was: RE: Classic Computers vs.

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Bob Shannon <bshannon(a)tiac.net> > >I understand your confusion here, but in this case there already is something >defined as microcode. Simply adding another layer of complexity does not change >the underlaying microcode that runs directly on the hardware, its still the microcode >of the engine. This underlaying microcode still implements the instruction set of >the physical CPU hardware. Because what your calling a microcoded engine is really running as your microcode something that used to be called macrocoding. IE: your "microcode" engine a Pentium understands yet another lower level code (internal pentium microcode). In the end what you have been decribing is emulation. If your pentium drove hardware that was <registers and ALU> say 36 bits wide and ran code to drive it as say a KL-10A then the pentium would be a fully macrocoded microengine. It's does not say a Pentium running dedicated code to emulate any machine in such a way as to hide the pentium completely is not a useful device. The terminology of microcomputers was laid down a long time ago and if you change meanings or the application of said meanings you invoke confusion. Allison

24 years, 9 months

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CPU design at the gate level

by uban＠ubanproductions.com

The book: "Computer Organization & Design, The Hardware/Software Interface", by David A. Patterson and John L. Hennessy is a pretty thorough modern book. I don't know where to find a bit-slice design book these days. --tom At 09:18 AM 9/21/01 +0100, you wrote: >Tony Duell wrote: > >> I've not come across it, but if it stops with registers and >> the ALU, I don't think I'd call it a 'good book'. >> >> A CPU can be divided into 2 parts. The Data Path (registers, ALU, the >> multiplexers between them, etc) and the Control (instruction decoder, >> microcode + sequencer, condition logic, etc) > >True, I don't recall covering much in the way of control logic - only >very basic stuff like telling the ALU whether to add or subtract, plus >implementing a few flags like zero and carry. Once we got to that stage >they threw us at the 29xx series to look at microcoding, which was all >the rage at the time. > >Unfortunately I've lost most of my college notes now, I guess I've moved >too many times :-/ I've been looking for a replacement for the Thewlis >book - can you recommend any which cover CPU logic from the basics of >how to build registers out of gates up to instruction fetching & decoding? >I'm also very keen to get hold of a book covering the bitslice processors >(29xx), any ideas? I can't imagine there's anything left in print now, but >with an author/title or ISBN I might be able to track down a second-hand >copy. > >-al > >

24 years, 9 months

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FS: IBM style mini-centronics 68 SCSI cables

by rhblakeman＠kih.net

Contact me via DIRECT EMAIL on these... Here's some hard to find cables for IBM PS/2 and RS/6000 systems for SCSI external hookup. All are high quality black, like new, except for the first batch of 1 ft cables that are beige: 1 ft Centronics 50male to Centronics 50 male "jumpers" - great for case to case stringers. $3.99 each, have 24 of them. 3 ft mini-centronics 68 male to high-density 50 male (clip type) $6.99 each, have 4. 5 ft mini-centronics 68 male to high-density 50 male (clip type) $14.99 each, have 11 3 ft mini-centronics 68 male to standard Centronics 50 male - $6.99 each, have 7 5 ft mini-centronics 68 maile to standard Centronics 50 male - $14.99 each, have 10 10 ft mini-centronics 68 male to high density 68 male (screw type) $21.99 each, have 3. The above does NOT include shipping. I don't charge for slamming it in a box and taking it to the post office either, just the rounded postage (regular or priority) with delivery confirmation. Shipping is from zip 42726 in KY. I may also work out pickups for locals in the evenings/weekends if desired. Right now I *will* ship to USA, APO/FPO and Canada but will ship to others if I don't get stuck doing a ton of paperwork. US funds only, can take money orders or Paypal. Paypal ships out the same/next day as payment is made. Money orders when it's recieved. Now the kicker - I'm posting any not spoken for (serious buyer only) on ebay on 9/27 for the general PS2 and RS6000 crowd to have a shot at. Anyone that has me hold one/some for them MUST make payment in reasonable time, say a week to 1 days after they have me hold some for them. If they stand me up I'll just put those cables on ebay later on but they certainly will be remembered for future offerings and I'm just getting started with the opening of my stash of IBM stuff.

24 years, 9 months

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SPDT Dip Switches (was: Solomon Splitting the list...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Sep 15, 14:42, Roger Merchberger wrote: > My idea: A 2-4 decoder/demux. tied to A0 & A1, with the outputs going to > one side of a SPDT DIP switch, the other side of the switch pulled to +5, > then all four of the switch outputs going into a 4-input AND gate. That > way, you could switch any of the four addresses on or off, so that you'd > have access to more than one memory location for CE/ to implement UARTS & > stuff that require more than one address to function. (It can be done > easily without the switches -- I could use a jumper block without > heartburn, but the switches would look neater, and wouldn't have the chance > for floating inputs/outputs...) In other words, this: _____ ____ +5V - ---| \ _____ | - ---| & \_____ | |__ _ o - ---| / A0 ------| 2 |__ _ ----o----------------|____/ | to |__ _ o A1 ------| 4 |_________| |_____| Wouldn't this be easier and do the same thing? ____ +5V | \ 4 x 1k0 pullup / _____ _____ \ - ---| \ | |__ _ / - ---| & \_____ A0 ------| 2 |__ _ | - ---| / | to |__ _ ----o----------------|____/ A1 ------| 4 |_________o |_____| I've just seen Tony's reply, and his suggestion using a MUX would have been my next suggestion too. It's also easier to extend to more address bits (fewer switches required). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 9 months

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Anybody have a rom image of a modern TI graphing calculator?

by strzecha＠kis.p.lodz.pl

Press: [2nd][Mode][Alpha][S]. Then press any key except [ENTER], if you dont want to erase calculator memory. Krzysztof "Blair J. Miller" wrote: > It's been so long since I've dealt with these things... how do I get the ROM > version again? > > Blair > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Krzysztof Strzecha" <strzecha(a)kis.p.lodz.pl> > To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 11:21 AM > Subject: Re: Anybody have a rom image of a modern TI graphing calculator? > > > "Blair J. Miller" wrote: > > > > > I have an 86 if you want me to create a ROM image of it... but you'll > > have > > > to instruct me on how to do it... I have the serial link cable. > > > > > > Blair > > > > > > > Hi > > I am author of TI-81, TI-85 and TI-86 drivers for MESS > > (http://mess.emuverse.com) multiemulator. What version of rom do you > > have in > > your TI-86 ? I was able to found only version: 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 and 1.6. If > > it is > > diffrent I am also interested in image of this rom. > > > > Krzysztof Strzecha > > > > > > > >

24 years, 9 months

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Moving VMS

by optimus＠canit.se

First of all, I'm lagging far behind with my mail reading, and I don't think I've managed to thank those who provided me with the necessary help for cracking my VAXstation. Now I'm fumbling around in VMS. What a queer system, I'm totally lost, but some manual reading will probably provide necessary orientation. Anyway, thank you, Jochen (?) et al. Now, I've got three functioning VMS 5.5 disks. And we've got a MicroVAX 3100 without system disks. Would it be possible to just connect one of my spare disks to the SCSI bus on the ?VAX or would the system crash and burn when it couldn't find any graphics hardware and perhaps not the exact same peripheral systems (these are disks from a VAXstation 3100, so they're close relatives)? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "Real life is full of idiots, and tons of ads. I don't see how IRC is any different, other than a lot more people want to have sex with you." -- m3000

24 years, 9 months

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LCD repair

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

To whom were you replying? I'd posted about looking for an LCD screen for my Sharp laptop a while back... Unfortunately for me, mine has suffered fragmentation (it's physically cracked). Replacement is the only option... -dq > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven Spence [mailto:sspence@avimages.com] > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 7:43 PM > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: LCD repair > > > Don't know if you found the problem with your lcd yet but I > am a tech on > such and if you carefully fub the glued ribbon cables feeding into the > lcd panel sometimes this corrects those lines otherwise you > might get it > repaired by one of the online lcd repair shops. > > Steven Spence >

24 years, 9 months

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Free 8-inch floppies and drives, Wash DC area

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

Free, available immediately, in suburban MD just inside the I-495 beltway: Over a thousand used 8-inch floppies, mostly in plastic storage boxes, mostly with CP/M filesystems and SW. Also, some Shugart 8" floppy drives, very similar to the SA800 but requiring a little bit wider mounting space. Email me at "shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com" if interested. First to set up a pick-up time this weekend gets them all (no picking and choosing, you take them all!) Tim.

24 years, 9 months

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Free Apple II (and //e and //c) stuff, DC area

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

Free to whoever wants to pick it up. I'm in suburban MD, just inside the I-495 DC beltway: Free Apple //c Free Apple II+ Free Apple Disk II drives Free random Apple docs and magazines Please E-mail me at "shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com" if interested. First person to set a definite pick-up time for this weekend gets them. Tim.

24 years, 9 months

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Organization tips?

by technos＠nerdland.org

On Friday, September 21, 2001 9:56 PM, Paul Thompson [SMTP:thompson@mail.athenet.net] wrote: > On Fri, 21 Sep 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > On September 19, Chuck McManis wrote: > > > So does anyone have a preferred way in which they organize all the > > > many > > > hundreds of bits of stuff you need when you are keeping older > > > computers alive? > > > > For storing stuff in boxes...I avoid cardboard nowadays...I've > > been > > replacing them with those plastic "tubs" that one can purchase at > > discount stores. They last longer, are waterproof, and more > > stackable. They've also considerably cut down on the dust level in > > the house. > > I have an Army surplus ammo case for my spare hard drives (filled > layers > of bubble wrap.) The thing is airtight and actually hisses from the > pressure change when opened after being kept closed for some time. > > I ran out of room in it and turned out some of my smaller capacity > drives > to normal storage. > > > -- Good idea. Myself, I use cases from IBM procs. Take the spacer foam out, fit 8 standard HD. For laptop drives leave the foam in, fit 20. Jim

24 years, 9 months

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Organization tips?

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

So does anyone have a preferred way in which they organize all the many hundreds of bits of stuff you need when you are keeping older computers alive? --Chuck

24 years, 9 months

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Altair32 update

by rcini＠optonline.net

Hello, all: For those interested, I hit a major milestone this evening. After a momentary flash of brillance (which come too few and far between I'm afraid :-)) I made some minor tweaks to the code relating to diskette images. Then, I loaded up an image of CP/M 2.2 for the Altair and fired it up. Well, don't you know it works! I got CP/M to boot on the emulator!!! I now have to try Altair Disk BASIC and Altair DOS. It's dog slow and for some reason I can see CP/M console output but it doesn't appear to receive console input. So, I'm stuck at the "A>" prompt. I guess it's time to slow the front panel updating again or try to optimize the processor code. I feel a 2.1 release coming... Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/

24 years, 9 months

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Intriguing proposal

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

> Absurdly Obtuse wrote: > >Is it possible to put a Laserbus PCI Hose from an AlphaServer 8400 in my >VAX 7000? The concept boggles the mind. Also, does anyone know where I I don't know what the differences are between the TurboLaser bus (as in the AS 8400) and the Laserbus (on the VAX 7000/DEC 7000). If it works you will have the pleasure of writing some VAX drivers for PCI. Don;t forget that some LSB modules had Alpha-only firmware: I presume they had carnal knowledge of Alpha MMG data structures which are different on VAX. So just because it does not smoke when you drop it in the slot does not mean it is useful! >can find TXXX XMI/BI, EXXX Laserbus, and other reference numbers for >boards? For VAXBI, VAXft and XMI you can start here: http://www.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au/vax/ There are various "field guides" dotted around the net that cover Omnibus, Qbus and UNIBUS. I've got a list somewhere of LSB and FBUS stuff. Is there anything specific you wanted? Antonio

24 years, 9 months

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