- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On November 9, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > >Adam was made in God's own image, not that of a monkey. > > > > Adam who? > > > > Can't believe anybody really believes that Adam and Eve existed. > > I can't believe there is anybody who doesn't believe in God. I can't believe there's anybody who can't be tolerant of the fact that different people may have different beliefs. And yes dammit, before you flame me, I believe in God! -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL

24 years, 7 months

2
1
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Cable and connector source

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 10, 0:36, Don McClure wrote: > PS/2 doesn't use a ground pin, or pin 2, IIRC. It does use ground, on pin 3. From (ironically) the IRIX manpage for pckeyboard: ------ / 5 3 \ | --- 1 | | --- 2 | \ 6 4 / ------ _____________________ |__Pin_Assignments___| |Pin | Description | |____|_______________| | 1 | Data | | 2 | Reserved | | 3 | Signal Ground | | 4 | Power +5V | | 5 | Clock | |_6__|_Reserved______| > So I'm going to find small female crimp on connectors to fasten to the pins > on a Radio Shack mini-DIN plug, when I can get to an electronics supply > store. Radio Shack doesn't seem to have them. I just don't solder often > enough to become proficient at it. I can think of somee alternatives. The first is to buy a cable with 6-pin miniDIN to bare ends; these usually have all 6 wires connected. Second, an old SGI or Sun cable, or any other 6-pin miniDIN cable you can cut one end off, in order to solder a 9-pin D. Thirdly, you can get heatshrink sleeves that contain solder. I'm not sure those would be very good to connect straight onto miniDIN plug pins, because the heat required might melt the plastic, but it might be OK, and neater and easier than a crimp. They're called "One-Step(TM) Solder Sleeve(TM)" terminals, and they're made by Tyco/Raychem. You can get them in the UK from Farnell (http://www.farnell.com) and probably from various US suppliers (including Farnell, I expect). Or just buy a cable from one of the SGI resellers, such as Greg Douglas (www.reputable.com)? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 7 months

1
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STOP THE OT RANTS! This List is sliding off again

by sipke＠wxs.nl

About a month ago we were promised guidelines about how to behave on this list! Now I don't mind a few diversions about food practices in different regions around the world. But ....... "Nuke Redmond" is worse cause it's about computer religions.............. And RANTS about religion (or politics for that matter) are likely to inflame the spirits om many on this list. PLEASE no more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I too have strong opions on this subject but the list is no place to shout-over strong opions that will ultimately regress to mudslinging or worse. May the listmaster come up with his guidelines RSN. Regards, Sipke de Wal 'Religious and political list-rants should be regarded virri. They seem selfpropagating enough. So everyone who starts one should be branded a Digital Bio-Terrorist" ----------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx -----------------------------------------------------

24 years, 7 months

1
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absurdity

by LFessen106＠aol.com

In a message dated Fri, 9 Nov 2001 5:03:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, Gene Ehrich <gehrich(a)tampabay.rr.com> writes: > First of all we should not be having this conversation but your comments > demand an answer. Politics and religion should only be discussed on lists > with that allowed. But since it needs an answer: > > More than half of the worlds population does not believe in a god. > Believing in one is certainly ones right but it is absurd. The highest form > of life in the universe is man. > > Now lets drop the conversation or make it private. First I have seen of this conversation, but like you said - YOUR comments need an answer... I am quite sure that hell will be full of people who agreed that there was no God while they were alive. Unfortunaltely it'll be too late then for them to change their mind. Now you may disagree with me, but I have one question to ask you and you can keep the reply to yourself..... Do you really want to take that chance? Rev. Linc Fessenden

24 years, 7 months

7
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(fwd) Mass liquidation of Microchannel hardware in the Washington, D.C. area.

by optimus＠canit.se

-- forwarded message -- Path: dos.canit.se!news.netg.se!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.md.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Joshua E. Rodd <jerodd_atsign(a)rodds.dot.net> Subject: Mass liquidation of Microchannel hardware in the Washington, D.C. area. Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware Lines: 36 Message-ID: <ZyyF7.999$Ze5.872309(a)news1.rdc1.md.home.com> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 15:50:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.1.135.172 X-Complaints-To: abuse(a)home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.md.home.com 1004975417 65.1.135.172 (Mon, 05 Nov 2001 07:50:17 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 07:50:17 PST Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Xref: dos.canit.se comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware:95480 I have assorted old Microchannel hardware I'd like to get rid of. It's all free for the ttaking--you just have to come over to my house and get it, because I couldn't be bothered to actually try shipping any of this stuff. The more you take with you, the better. Remove the .dot. and _atsign in my e-mail address to reach me and coordinate a pickup time. I have (roughly): 8580-121 (heavily modified, 80386DX 20MHz) - 8MB 8573-121 (P70 80386DX 20MHZ) - 8MB/120MB 8573-401 (P75 80486DX 33MHz) - 16MB/400MB Assorted small (under 1GB) SCSI disks Assorted options, such as: SCSI adapters XGA-2 Display Adapter Image-Adapter/A (3MB) with Print/Scan Option Serial port options IBM-specific SCSI cabling ActionMedia II Display Adapter and Capture Option with cables Three long M-Audio Capture and Playback Adapter/A and one short M-ACPA/A All kinds of other things I forgot about Piles of Token Ring network cards, Microchannel and ISA, 16/4. Two Token Ring 8228s (not sure if they work) Type 1 Token Ring cabling and dozens of Type 1 to RJ-45 baluns Intel EtherExpress 16 and Cabletron E2100 Ethernet adapters I am located in Alexandria, Virginia, near the Seminary Road exit (exit 4) of I-395. All the hardware is in working condition, for the most part. Please respond by e-mail as I may not have a chance to read the newsgroup on a regular basis. Looking forward to sending this stuff to a better home, Joshua Rodd -- end of forwarded message -- -- Vi m?ste vara r?dda om varandra - det ?r det enda reciproka pronomen vi har.

24 years, 7 months

2
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OT: food

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! ... Of course, I am the guy the puts ! powdered sugar on french fries,... Powdered suger on french fries? Sounds... wierd... but tasty. I'll have to try it. Well, you _can_ go to a carnival and get fried dough with powdered sugar on it, so I guess it's not that much of a stretch... But I have to admit, McDonalds french fries in thier choclate shake is pretty good too. --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years, 7 months

15
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Cable and connector source

by mcclure3＠home.com

on 11/9/01 6:04 PM, classiccmp-digest at owner-classiccmp-digest(a)classiccmp.org wrote: > I wouldn't try to solder a mini-DIN if I didn't have to. I'd rather just cut > up a cable and solder the right end to it. > There are some tricks to soldering mini-DINs in an AppleGuide file called > "L?ten am Mac". I think one of them involves getting crimp-on solder shoes > (I'm not aware of the proper English nomenclature). I tried cutting up a PS/2 keyboard cable, but of course the pins are wired different: Personal Iris 4D/2x Keyboard Cable Mini-DIN Pin connects to DB-9 Pin ------------- -------- 1 Keybd Recv 2 2 Mouse Recv 5 3 Ground 6 4 +V 7 5 Keybd Xmit 8 6 N/C PS/2 doesn't use a ground pin, or pin 2, IIRC. So I'm going to find small female crimp on connectors to fasten to the pins on a Radio Shack mini-DIN plug, when I can get to an electronics supply store. Radio Shack doesn't seem to have them. I just don't solder often enough to become proficient at it. Unless somebody has one of those cables... ;) Don McClure Bel Air, MD

24 years, 7 months

1
0
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Nutella

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On November 10, Geoff Roberts wrote: > Most Yanks consider it child abuse to force this on children, however the > kids LIKE it > and we think the same about (Peanut Butter and Jelly- or in English, Peanut > Paste and Jam) Erk. > I like vegemite (having been raised on it). I also like Peanut paste, I like > various jams too, but peanut and > jam together is a needle pinner on the yuckometer. Really? Wow, I really like them together, so do most people (Americans, that is) I know. But then, I was raised on it. > Kids don't go thru this, some parents put it on kids dummies when they are > younger. By the time they are 2 or 3 they have it on toast at least daily. What would be the American English translation of "dummies" in this context? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL

24 years, 7 months

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1
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absurdity

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 11/9/2001 10:35:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, gehrich(a)tampabay.rr.com writes: << >First I have seen of this conversation, but like you said - YOUR comments >need an answer... I am quite sure that hell will be full of people who >agreed that there was no God while they were alive. Unfortunaltely it'll >be too late then for them to change their mind. Now you may disagree with >me, but I have one question to ask you and you can keep the reply to >yourself..... Do you really want to take that chance? Take a chance on what? It's not taking a chance at all. I'll ask you the same type of question? When you lose a tooth do you want to take a chance of not putting it under your pillow for the tooth fairy. One is as likely as the other. >> what the hell is all this bullshit? food and now religion. get ontopic!

24 years, 7 months

1
0
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absurdity

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>The highest form >of life in the universe is man. Actually, I dispute that, not because of a belief in god, but in the fact that it is arrogant to think that there is no other intelligent life ANYWHERE in the universe. Sheer mathematical odds almost demand that there is at least life similar to human kind SOMEWHERE else in the universe (discounting freaky but possible Quantum reality theories that would dictate an infinite number of alternate versions of us). -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 7 months

4
3
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Windows, std OS in Hell

by pechter＠ureach.com

---- On Fri, 09 Nov 2001, Geoff Reed (geoffr(a)zipcon.net) wrote: > At 01:20 AM 11/9/01 -0800, you wrote: > > >What confused me for a long time, and is currently scheduled for > again this > > >evening, is that Apple printers in many cases are NOT TCP/IP, but > ethertalk > > >(same physical layer, different protocol). Some of the bridges and > routers > > >pass TCP/IP or EtherTalk, but not both, then add to that the native > network > > >blind character of a Wintel box and I am walking in a foggy forest. > > > > > >Tonights fun, Apple Laserwriter 16/600 vs W98se, film at 11. > > > >I've been digging at this problem for a few weeks, and I almost don't > >believe the answer. Windows machines apparently won't print directly > to > >network printers. (obviously NT will, ditto maybe w2k, but not 95 or > 98). > >The story I hear is that Microsoft wanted to sell more NT servers, so > they > >pulled the support for standard protocols like LPR (something like > that) > >forcing users to print from a workstation to a NT server, which > contains > >the protocols to talk to the network printers directly. Why did > windows > >users allow MicroSoft to get away with crap like that? > > > >BTW the sane alternative appears to be SAMBA, but it still is really > wrong. > >HP has wizard software that gets around this somehow, but Apple can't > even > >remember it was in the printer business 4 years ago. > > Nope, WFW3.11, Win95 and Win98 were designed as "small office / home > operating systems" and were never given support for LPR protocol as you > > weren't expected to see that in a SOHO / Workgroup or Home setting. > (In > yet another previous incarnation I was a support tech for POS at > Microsoft > [Personal Operating Systems] ) > > > > There are lpr drivers available as shareware or commercial products for Win3.x, Win95 and higher. Most of the third party add on printer servers come with an lpr capability for Win9x and there's a shareware one on Simtel for Windows 3.x with a winsock. Lan Workplace also had one from Novell. Bill -- Bill Pechter Systems Administrator uReach Technologies 732-335-5432 (Work) 877-661-2126 (Fax)

24 years, 7 months

2
1
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DECserver 700

by vance＠ikickass.org

What kind/speed of flash cards are used by the DECserver 700? Peace... Sridhar

24 years, 7 months

2
1
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Anyone know of an Intel iPDS for sale?

by dmabry＠mich.com

Just trying to help out someone who needs CP/M for an Intel MDS and I needed to get some files off a 5 1/4" diskette from my iPDS, and damn! It was dead. I will work on it when I have time, but in the mean time, if anyone might have an old Intel iPDS taking up space and might want to sell it...please contact me. I'm in the Detroit area. Thanks. Dave -- Dave Mabry dmabry(a)mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093

24 years, 7 months

1
0
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food

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > Mmm, greens and a juicy steak burned to a crisp. > > > Poor steak... :( *IMHO*, steak is only good served blue rare... After the first time I ate a steak rare, I came to understand what the creators of steak sauces appear to be trying to re-create... the actual taste of meat. But I want mine cooked enough that it's hot inside... I cut into it and detect cold temperature, the steak goes back. -dq

24 years, 7 months

4
3
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absurdity

by LFessen106＠aol.com

In a message dated Fri, 9 Nov 2001 7:14:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> writes: > It could also be argued that there's something wrong with the idea of > believing in God purely to keep oneself out of hell > > -Dave Yeah It can indeed, but you have to start somewhere right? :-) Anyhow Dave, did you finally get settled down there? I see you're finally getting to your emails again! -Linc. (the Troll - I guess?)

24 years, 7 months

1
0
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absurdity (TROLL - ignore please)

by LFessen106＠aol.com

In a message dated Fri, 9 Nov 2001 7:10:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, Spam Abuse <abusespam(a)home.com> writes: > This is a Troll Message. In the interest of keeping on topic, please don't > respond. > > > on 11/9/01 6:00 PM, LFessen106(a)aol.com at LFessen106(a)aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated Fri, 9 Nov 2001 5:03:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, Gene > > Ehrich <gehrich(a)tampabay.rr.com> writes: > > > >> First of all we should not be having this conversation but your comments > >> demand an answer. Politics and religion should only be discussed on lists > >> with that allowed. But since it needs an answer: > >> > >> More than half of the worlds population does not believe in a god. > >> Believing in one is certainly ones right but it is absurd. The highest form > >> of life in the universe is man. > >> > >> Now lets drop the conversation or make it private. > > > > First I have seen of this conversation, but like you said - YOUR comments need > > an answer... I am quite sure that hell will be full of people who agreed that > > there was no God while they were alive. Unfortunaltely it'll be too late then > > for them to change their mind. Now you may disagree with me, but I have one > > question to ask you and you can keep the reply to yourself..... Do you really > > want to take that chance? > > > > Rev. Linc Fessenden > > Actually it's not a troll at all. I am responding legitimately to a post on a list I have been subscribed to for years. If you notice in my post above I asked for no responce myself. I find it interesting that you all can banter back and fourth about God, but as soon as a Christian says something I am labeled a "Troll".. Hmmm.?

24 years, 7 months

1
0
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BC18Z & BC19S

by KenzieM＠sympatico.ca

Are these interchangeable? I found one reference that says the BC19s connects a 3100 to a VR290 and that the BC18z connects the Vaxstation to the vr290. Are the pinouts the same for these VAXen Collector of Vintage Computers (www.ncf.ca/~ba600)

24 years, 7 months

1
0
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Atari ST cartridge port

by optimus＠canit.se

Does anyone know where one might get a hold of 2 mm spaced (not 2,54 mm) card- edge connectors? The Atari ST cartridge port is using that spacing, which doesn't seem very popular. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Min andra dator ?r en VAX.

24 years, 7 months

5
7
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Missing was Re: OS9 or Flex09 on 8" disk needed

by mranalog＠home.com

Ben Franchuk wrote: > I thought try this ... > "The Missing 6809 UniFLEX Archive" http://www.rtmx.com/UniFLEX/ > but the webpage is now missing! Does anybody know what happened to it? > This very bad when old information vanishes with out a trace on the web. Too offen I find web pages that I count on turn up missing, so I have started trying out a program called WebZIP. http://www.spidersoft.com/default.asp ----- Start Quote ------- Use WebZIP to download web pages or entire web sites, including images, sounds and other media files to your hard drive, so you can browse them offline. Using the new FAR add-in tool for WebZIP, you can compile your downloaded content to HTML-Help. WebZIP also gives you the option of saving your captured web content into a single compressed Zip file - a great way to archive Web sites, or distribute them to friends and coleagues. WebZIP's powerful Task Editor gives you total control over what and how much of a Web site is downloaded. It lets you specify the file types, depth and scope of retrieval in addition to giving you powerful URL and location filters and allowing you scheduling your download for any time of the day. ------ End Quote -------- And of course it has the option for you to save a web site WITHOUT the banner ads. Regards, --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog =========================================

24 years, 7 months

7
8
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Osborne floppy drives (was Apple Floppy Drives)

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

Interesting how peoples experiences differ. (1) I never had any problems with the drives on my Osborne under moderate to heavy use, but I did have a DD upgrade done. I purchased it in Feb of 1981 and it had a fairly low serial number. (2) I found Elephant disks to be the _worst_ brand I used. I ended up tossing them all out (a box or two). I had much better luck with Maxell and Dysan. -----Original Message----- From: Louis Schulman [mailto:louiss@gate.net] Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 2:34 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Osborne floppy drives (was Apple Floppy Drives) I am happy to hear that. That Osborne was evidently "very low mileage". And, while I don't remember exactly, I may have aligned the drives on that machine, or swapped drives with another to get a pair of dirves that worked together. For some reason, drives that won't work correctly in one Osborne sometimes will in a different machine, even though this would appear to not make sense. Louis On Fri, 9 Nov 2001 01:21:09 -0500, Glen Goodwin wrote: #> From: Louis Schulman <louiss(a)gate.net> # #> What about the single board CP/M machines? I have them too. The disk #drives on the Osborne were, #> based on extensive experience, the least reliable ever made. If one #drive could read what another had #> written, it was a gift from God. And with the double density upgrade, it #was much worse. # #Really?? The Osborne 1 I got from you works perfectly. I've used it to #copy boatloads of disks, and have also used my Kaypro 10 and my Wintel PC #to make disks for it, without fail. # #Glen #0/0 #

24 years, 7 months

1
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food

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On Fri, 9 Nov 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > My personal favorite burger > > > > > > 1. Texas toast > > > 2. barbecue sauce > > > 3. fried onion ring > > > 4. bacon > > > 5. melted cheddar cheese > > > 6. extra well-done meat patty > > > 7. barbecue sauce > > > 8. Texas toast > > > > Yeah... but don't try the Burger King version of this > > I've found the closest thing thus far at Sonic. Yeah, I agree... I just wish Sonic made burgers that were at least as large as the bread they're on... -dq

24 years, 7 months

1
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food

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On Fri, 9 Nov 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > Our good friend Jeffrey Sharp first said: > > > All right, all right. The poor Okie needs an education. > > > What the hell is Nutella? > > > > Then, shortly thereafter: > > > > > On Thu, 8 Nov 2001, Chris wrote: > > > > > > > My family has direct ancestry to settlers on some of the first ships > > > > [...] How far back is one supposed to go to decide their "heritage" > > > > 100 years? > > > > > > I was born in America. I'm an American. That's how I see it. > > > > So, which is it? > > Yes. A fine answer in the Richard Feynman tradition! In addition to being a Hoosier, I'm a Paver, but that's a State of Mind. -dq

24 years, 7 months

1
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0 0

Cromemco landmarks

by pechter＠ureach.com

---- On 9 Nov 2001 21:12:12, Iggy Drougge (optimus(a)canit.se) wrote: > M H Stein skrev: > > Just for the record, I've never heard of Cromemco. > > >As to the performance figures vs. DEC, they were taken from Datamation > & Unix > >World magazines and a UNIX USENET study, this being in late 1986. > >Interestingly enough, Dhrystone benchmarks are: > > >Cromix CS420: 3703 > >VAX11/785 2136 > >VAX11/780 1662 > >MicroVAX-II 1612 > >VAX11/750 1091 > >IBM RT 1333 > > >While the Whetstone scores make the MicroVAX look a lot better: > > >CS420 1,050,000 > >MicroVAX II 877,000 > >VAX11/780 476,000 > >IBM RT 200,000 > >Cromemco Z80 7,000 > > Isn't this rather odd? The MicroVAX II is supposed to be 0,5 VUP, right? > So > what have the DEC engineers done to make it just as fast in the > Dhrystone and > even faster than the 11/780 in the Whetstone benchmarks? > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > "I'm all man underneath my skirt." > Boy George > > IIRC the MicroVaxII was 0.9 VUP. -- Bill Pechter Systems Administrator uReach Technologies 732-335-5432 (Work) 877-661-2126 (Fax)

24 years, 7 months

1
0
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Missing was Re: OS9 or Flex09 on 8" disk needed

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> >> I tend to use wget. Runs on everything. The only problem is, it's a GNU > >> program, and that's a big problem. > > >Why would that be a problem? I tend to use wget a lot and it does a > >pretty good job. > > The problem with GNU programs is that they're so difficult to use. Wow, I'm drawing a real blank here too... Are they difficult because they are (or tend to be) command-line programs? If so, that really isn't a GNU characteristic, it's a UNIX characteristic... and true, a shell interface isn't for everyone. -dq

24 years, 7 months

3
2
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Osborne floppy drives (was Apple Floppy Drives)

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Louis Schulman <louiss(a)gate.net> > What about the single board CP/M machines? I have them too. The disk drives on the Osborne were, > based on extensive experience, the least reliable ever made. If one drive could read what another had > written, it was a gift from God. And with the double density upgrade, it was much worse. Really?? The Osborne 1 I got from you works perfectly. I've used it to copy boatloads of disks, and have also used my Kaypro 10 and my Wintel PC to make disks for it, without fail. Glen 0/0

24 years, 7 months

2
1
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food

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Our good friend Jeffrey Sharp first said: > All right, all right. The poor Okie needs an education. > What the hell is Nutella? Then, shortly thereafter: > On Thu, 8 Nov 2001, Chris wrote: > > > My family has direct ancestry to settlers on some of the first ships > > [...] How far back is one supposed to go to decide their "heritage" > > 100 years? > > I was born in America. I'm an American. That's how I see it. So, which is it? Sorry to pick on ya Jeff, but this here Hoosier is just plain bored... ;-)

24 years, 7 months

2
1
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Cromemco landmarks

by mhstein＠usa.net

------------Original Message------------- Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 08:27:15 -0500 From: "Allison" <ajp166(a)bellatlantic.net> Subject: Re: Cromemco landmarks >-The first Z-80 micro Nope. >-The first micro with a Winchester HD Nope. >-The first micro color graphics system Yes and significant. >-The first micro implementation of I/O channel processors Nope, IMSAI had a 8080 in the FDC. >-The first micro to boot from ROM without front panel switches Nope, NS* and a slew of others. First was likely the Poly 88. >-The first micro with integrated floppy disks Not hardly. Nice claims, put dates and supporting evidence up. Cromemco is best known for The Dazzler color display, RF tight systems in solid boxes and generally good systems. Allison ----------------------- Well, as I said, I'm only quoting their literature; interesting facts or amusing hyperbole, your choice. But they do indeed quite specifically make those claims, after this introduction: - "All of us who use Cromemco systems have, at one time or another, had to deal with the situation where someone asks you what kind of computer you have, and when you tell them you hear, "CROMEMCO? Never heard of them." Well, next time you hear that you can rattle off a few of the following first-time technical contributions that Cromemco has made to the microcomputer industry:"... - Having heard the "Never heard of them" myself often enough, even on this august forum, I thought I'd share the list with you. Quibble over details if you will, but to the best of my knowledge they were one of the few companies whose micros were credible enough to seriously compete with the minis of the day in large government & institutional settings. As you say, all they seem to be known for is the dazzler and the Sherman-tank-grade archaic 16 K Z-2's & CS3's, not the "big iron" of later years or the various innovations along the way, and that was my point, that there was more to Cromemco than most people seem to be aware of. But AFAIK, last I heard Harry Garland (one of the founders) is still around doing research for Canon, if you want to email & ask him to back up their claims... Or, since you're challenging, why not put up some dates & supporting evidence yourself? I'm not arguing or flaming, but I assume that for you to say 'Nope' so authoritatively & so often you must have some supporting facts of your own, which would be interesting indeed. Who did market a commercial micro with an integrated Winchester before Cromemco in '79, for example? If ads are any indication, at the time Cromemco announced the Z-2H the only other HD's I can find in my old Bytes is Corvus's add-on external version, and Ohio's Challenger and various add-on drives using cartridge modules, not Winchesters, although Altos announced one a few months after Cromemco. As to the performance figures vs. DEC, they were taken from Datamation & Unix World magazines and a UNIX USENET study, this being in late 1986. Interestingly enough, Dhrystone benchmarks are: Cromix CS420: 3703 VAX11/785 2136 VAX11/780 1662 MicroVAX-II 1612 VAX11/750 1091 IBM RT 1333 While the Whetstone scores make the MicroVAX look a lot better: CS420 1,050,000 MicroVAX II 877,000 VAX11/780 476,000 IBM RT 200,000 Cromemco Z80 7,000 Cromemco never claimed to be the fastest, just that they, using the S-100 bus, "... can clearly outperform even some of the most capable mini-computers, and do so at a price/performance point unequalled by any other technology in the industry." How much did a '780 or '785 and a MicroVAX cost in '86? I'll be the first to admit that I know zip about DEC and the only other literature I had with prices just went off to Norm in SF (has it arrived yet, Norm?) And I think they meant I/O channel processors in the mini/mainframe sense, not an intelligent(?) floppy drive; there's something categorically different between an IOP CBUS I/O controller and a PET FDD, even with its 2 CPU's... Raises an interesting point though; what is considered an authoritative source for who did what and when, if we don't trust ads or company literature, especially as it becomes scarcer & memories begin to fade? Certainly is a lot of incorrect information on the various 'Web sites purporting to be accurate time lines, although if that can be trusted the Poly88 came out in '77 while the Cromemco was definitely around at least in '76... And I swore I'd never get drawn into one of these discussions :)... leave it with ya... m

24 years, 7 months

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food

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> My personal favorite burger > > 1. Texas toast > 2. barbecue sauce > 3. fried onion ring > 4. bacon > 5. melted cheddar cheese > 6. extra well-done meat patty > 7. barbecue sauce > 8. Texas toast Yeah... but don't try the Burger King version of this, they just use regular buns, and the cheese is, well, most likely not cheese... -dq

24 years, 7 months

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food

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>You forgor the 80's..... hamburger chains WITH salad bars! Wendys was >the longest running, well into the 90s, but Burger King had one for a >short while too, maybe even McDonalds too... I don't recall. If you can FIND a roy rogers, they STILL have a salad bar... sort of, they call it a "fixin's bar", but you can make a salad out of the contents (at least you could when there was still a roy's near me, now they are down to ONE on the turnpike, all the others are either abondoned, or bought out by wendy's) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 7 months

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Nutella

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On November 9, Bryan Pope wrote: > Now why do you like Vegemite as opposed to Marmite? HA.. This could start > an interesting flame was between the Aussies and Brits over which one is the > best.. ;) I enjoy Marmite when I can get it. It's a very interesting flavor. > It sounds like you are describing the mustard they serve in Chineses > restaurants... It has that exact same effect with *very* little eaten. > (And I like this type of stuff... I put lots of wasabi on my sushi for the > sinus cleansing, brain blasting effects...) ...and hot Chinese mustard is *wonderful*! -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL

24 years, 7 months

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Cable and connector source

by mcclure3＠home.com

Yes, I am learning to hate them too. I ruined two mini-DINs when trying to solder them up. I'm going to try again using crimp connectors instead, when I locate some. And keeping the cable connections straight makes my brain hurt. Anybody have a Personal Iris 4D/2x keyboard cable lying around? DB9M to 6 pin mini-DIN male. Ouch. Don McClure Bel Air, MD > I hate mini-DINs. They're OK for portable systems, but they don't belong on > desktops or anything else. They're hellish to solder. And it gets even more > stupid when they're used for AC adaptors. It's just a way to force the user > into using only branded transformers. Especially if they're only using two > pins on the mini-DIN. > > - -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > Ky?suke: Jag heter Kurre, Kurre Carlsson! > Jag: Det heter du inte alls!

24 years, 7 months

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8 inch floppy drives

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Sep 8, 7:55, Curt Vendel wrote: > You can get PAL to work on NTSC, but I don't think you can do it in reverse > since the PAL chips don't have the bandwidth for the extra resolution. Eh? Normally PAL is the higher resolution, 625 vertical lines rather than 525, and 6.5MHz bandwidth rather than whatever NTSC normally uses (5.something, IIRC). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 7 months

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food

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > Where would they find gators? > > Since the Cherokee were native to the American southeast, I would guess > they found them nearly everywhere there was water. The story of how they > got to where the reservations are is both tragic and one of the more shameful > portions of our national history. And reason enough in my mind to want Jackson's face taken off our currency... -dq

24 years, 7 months

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food

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Don't discount the possibility that Adam and Eve may, in > fact, have been monkeys, or very nearly so. It's my understanding that some Southern Baptitst coming to terms with evolution have proposed this... reminds me of some of what I recall from The Urantia Book... -dq

24 years, 7 months

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Nutella

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On a related topic, does anyone know where I can get proper > mustard? I'm talking about traditionally hot, sinus-melting > English mustard. I have a friend who brings jars back from > Oz, but the supply is spotty at best... No, but I've been thinking of trying to substitute wasabi sauce for it, wow, talk about opening your sinuses... -dq

24 years, 7 months

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food

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> You forgor the 80's..... hamburger chains WITH salad bars! Wendys was > the longest running, well into the 90s, but Burger King had one for a > short while too, maybe even McDonalds too... I don't recall. Burger Queen was my favorite... buffalo wings, potato wedges, meatloaf, along woth the usual salad stuff. When BQ became Druthers, they kept them for a while... maybe until '91? -dq

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OT - Re: food

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > > > >Can you get that variety where you live? > > > > Certainly. And Mongolian BBQ, too. =) > > > > I can walk to one. Yum! Sounds dog-gone good! -dq

24 years, 7 months

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Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > To which you should have responded: > > Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls But Viloet Gave Willingly Around here, we subsituted "ravage"... sounds better, really isn't... -dq

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Clearly OT (but what the hell...) (was: food

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > > It varies. Which night would you like? :-) > > > Any night whose name ends in the letter 'Y' and which > > occurs once each week... but Chris already informed me > > this is merely a yearly affair... one I'm sure to look > > forward to if I have to wait a year for a wee dram! > > But the drinking part and eating part, and indeed most other parts needn't > only be annual. Only the Burn's Night title part is annual :-) Um, you do > have to listen to bagpipes, though, if it's Burn's Night. Sign me up... I love the drone! Worked for a publishing company, and one of the VP's played the pipes. He'd go up on the roof of the building at lunch at least once a week to play. While returning from an early lunch, I was approaching the building, enjoying his jamming, when an older women exiting the building heard the sound, looked up, then looked at me and said "My, I do *love* the sound of the saxophone"... <sheesh> -dq

24 years, 7 months

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Nuke Redmond!

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Too bad people [companies] can't be sued for being incompetent > schmucks. This is America- you can sure for anything. Winning and getting the loser to ante up is the trick... -dq

24 years, 7 months

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Paging Jay West

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Jay- I'm sure you're just busy, but drop me a line when you can... Regards, -doug q

24 years, 7 months

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OT: food

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> McDonald's ALSO adds a "beef extract" to their fries! > Some Hindus and vegetarians were quite upset to find out. > But the McDonald's spokesperson said, "We NEVER said that our > fries were vegetable." They've stopped adding that at the McDonalds' in India... I think they also replace the "Big mac" with The Big Foghorn Leghorn"... -dq

24 years, 7 months

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Refilling Toner Carts (was RE: Rubber Restorer...)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> >> About the only common material that sodium hydroxide will attack is > >> aluminium, and then only when concentrated or exposure is reasonably long; > >> it has no effect on copper, steel, etc. > > >Yeah, I've relied on this as a way to make satin-finish aluminum front > >panels for equipment. As the reaction progresses, the NAO2 (?) solution > >has to be preiodlically replaced. It generally took me about two days to > >get the desired look. > > A bead blaster would give you that satin finish in no time flat... True, at the cost of more real-estate... but when I'm done soaking a panel, the Tupperware went back to the kitchen cabinets, awaiting the making of the next Jello Salad... I never got as much flack for that as I did using Mom's roasting pan for oil changes. ;) -dq

24 years, 7 months

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Nutella

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On November 9, Chris Kennedy wrote: > Nah. "Hot" Chinese mustard is positively wimpy next to the stuff I'm > talking about. This reminds me of a bottle of hot sauce given to me by a friend recently. It's called "Jerry's Mustard Gas Hot Sauce". It seems like hot Chinese mustard mixed with chili pepper oil. 8-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL

24 years, 7 months

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Windows, std OS in Hell

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

Ben Franchuk: > Dateline 2035 > M$ has finally perfected windows. It now crashes before the install is > complete. Been there done that. Well, sort of. I have had Windows looking for things on the CD-ROM before it's gotten far enough in the install to have the CD-ROM drivers loaded. Grumble, grumble, grumble. That's why there's a /win98 directory on my wife's machine containing a copy of the install CD-ROM. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

24 years, 7 months

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blinkenlights for everybody - status update

by GOOI＠oce.nl

Hi all. I am making progress with the project. The core board is nearly finished, I hope to burn the simple monitor software in EPROM this weekend. See http://home.hetnet.nl/~tshaj/pdpsite/homebrew/startframe.html which is updated. If you wonder "how could he write the software that fast?" : simple; I had that already running in my SpaceShip Simulator. "What's that", you are wondering now... Have a look at http://home.hetnet.nl/~tshaj and click on the starfield picture .... (I am not forbidding you to click on the PDP-11/35 console ...) Have a nice weekend, - Henk.

24 years, 7 months

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Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> wrote: > On Thu, 8 Nov 2001, Feldman, Robert wrote: > > (BTW, my 14-year old son has three slide rules and was quite interested in > > the giant one up on the wall in a hall at his high school.) > > A friend of mine has one of those. I'm envious. All you slide rule fans know about the Oughtred Society, right? Just in case: http://www.oughtred.org/ -Frank McConnell

24 years, 7 months

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head-positioners - (was Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers))

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

The O1 used either Siemens or MPI drives (according to my O1 Technical Manual). The electronics board was, however, replaced with an Osborne-designed board. The Tech Manual has a layout diagram and a schematic for this board. -----Original Message----- From: Eric Chomko [mailto:vze2wsvr@verizon.net] Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 9:46 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: head-positioners - (was Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers)) <snip> Wasn't the Osborne I floppies Siemens? Eric <snip>

24 years, 7 months

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blinkenlights for everybody - status update

by uban＠ubanproductions.com

Very cool Henk! I wish that I had as much spare time as you seem to have... Thanks for sharing with us! --tom At 12:00 PM 11/9/01 +0100, you wrote: >Hi all. > >I am making progress with the project. >The core board is nearly finished, I hope to burn the simple >monitor software in EPROM this weekend. See > >http://home.hetnet.nl/~tshaj/pdpsite/homebrew/startframe.html > >which is updated. >If you wonder "how could he write the software that fast?" : >simple; I had that already running in my SpaceShip Simulator. >"What's that", you are wondering now... >Have a look at > >http://home.hetnet.nl/~tshaj > >and click on the starfield picture .... >(I am not forbidding you to click on the PDP-11/35 console ...) > >Have a nice weekend, > >- Henk. > > > >

24 years, 7 months

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Cromemco landmarks

by mhstein＠usa.net

-------------Original Message------------- Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 09:25:22 -0500 (EST) From: One Without Reason <vance(a)ikickass.org> Subject: Re: Cromemco landmarks On Thu, 8 Nov 2001, Allison wrote: > From: M H Stein <mhstein(a)usa.net> > > >And that in 1987 an XXU equipped system was almost twice as fast as a > >VAX 11/780, which cost over four times as much as the largest Cromemco > >system at the time. > > Sounds impressive...save for in 1987 the VAX11/780 was 9 years old and > out of widespread use!! By 1987 the microVAX had been around for a while, > the midrange VAX was 4x-8x faster than the 780 and easily 1/3 the size! That, and there were much faster machines than VAXen back then. Peace... Sridhar > Cromemco was pretty neat but first, fastest not hardly. > > Allison > > --------------------------- Geez, they didn't say that they were the fastest or that the '780 was the fastest either, so why argue non-points. They were just trying to create awareness among people who thought only minis and mainframes could do 'serious' stuff that S-100 micros had come a long way since the Altair and might do the same job reliably, as fast or faster, and for less money. Judging by the still prevailing notion that they only made a great graphics card and some solid but humdrum systems, they apparently didn't do a very good job... mike

24 years, 7 months

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