- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

FreeTradeZone site moving to subscription-only for older part s

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

> >Wget. > > I thought you did not like wget. > Regardless of whether he likes it or not, since you have to get past the initial form where you type your search query, there is no simple way to download their whole database. I believe that they used to make some CDs available (presumably for a fee). It might be easier to get hold of those (assuming the old scanned manuals and datasheets are on there!). Antonio

24 years, 7 months

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Radio Shack abandons components

by jpl15＠panix.com

I have seen several posts on other fora bemoaning the fact that our beloved Radio Shack is rapidly phasing out it's sales of carded components, resistors, caps, diodes, etc. I imagine this to be the case... and another blow to Enginerds and parts-level hobbyists not lucky enough to be near a Fry's or other still-functioning small-quantity parts outlet. Experimenters: Time to stock up! Cheers John

24 years, 7 months

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Mac Restore CDs/Manuals

by r_beaudry＠hotmail.com

Hello all.... I recently picked up an LC 630 DOS Compatible Macintosh. Nice machine, with SCSI CD, the DOS card, A/V card, and TV tuner card, but no disks or manuals. I know it's off-topic but someone here already mentioned a restore CD, and I believe it was for the LC 630. If so, could you contact me off-list mailto:r_beaudry@hotmail.com ) so I could get a copy? I'll gladly pay for postage and media costs.. Same for hardcopy manuals. I have some .PDFs, but they're so clumsy ... If anyone has spare copies of manuals for this machine, especially any tech references or service manuals, I'll gladly pay postage, and some extra, for them.... Thanks! Rich B.

24 years, 7 months

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OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > Richard Erlacher skrev: > > > > >Well, that's good, but the ultimate end user has no Netscape experience, and > > >I've got not even enough to be dangerous. I never liked Nestcape because you > > >had to buy that %$#@! Trumpet Winsock to make it work, and that crapped up a > > buy!? In the day when we had to use Trumpet Winsock, it came free when you > signed up for an internet account. But this was on Windows 3.1. Ditto that. -dq

24 years, 7 months

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RA60 drives anywhere? And stuff...

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On Tue, 20 Nov 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Last time I was in a PC shop, they were selling 'line printer > > paper'... What was it? Poor-ish quality A4 sheets, like you'd use in > > a laser printer or copier. Not fanfold, not sproketed, certainly not > > greenbar. > > I bought a box of wide, greenbar paper at my local OfficeMax. They had > quite a few boxes in inventory. Yup. Box of 20lb greenbar set me back US$38 at Office Despot. -dq

24 years, 7 months

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SCB68430 DMA controller data sheets etc.

by zaft＠azstarnet.com

Anyone know of a source for data sheets and app notes for the SCB68430 DMA controller? I couldn't find anything via Google. GZ

24 years, 7 months

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panasonic hhc

by Golemancd＠aol.com

hey thanks hans i pulled up a webb site on it mentioning the basic in rom wonder if if have that and how to program with it. i got about six chips with it. i cant find them right now but i think i may have thrown them out. silly me Joe.

24 years, 7 months

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OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa?

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>I've drawn the conclusion that the only real memory-hog is the Netscape >browser. >A couple of folks have advised me to install a 32MB simm for that purpose >alone. >It would certainly be a shame to make the system buckle when browsing just >because it lacks RAM. I would give iCab a try (www.icab.de), it is free, and works extremely well. It uses way less RAM than Netscape, so it should work with just 8mb installed (4mb might be tight). I am running the latest version right now and it is taking up just 2.9mb of RAM. It is also faster and more stable than Netscape in my experience... and it is actively under development even for the 68k version, something you won't get with Netscape (the 68k version is dead in the water for Netscape). -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 7 months

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PDP-8 backplane -- was Re: PDP-8 case

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 20, 0:53, Tony Duell wrote: > Since you can put options with top connectors anywhere in the backplane, > there would seem to be little point in having special foam over the front > slots only. That reminds me... supplementary question: The machine had gaps between some of the cards. It's over 20 years since I used a PDP-8 for real, and in those days I wasn't usually allowed at the innards. The gaps don't matter, do they? There's no grant chain like in a Unibus, AFAIR. The -8/E is an Omnibus machine, of course. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 7 months

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OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa?

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > It's the "quite a bit of extra work" that concerns me, as the > boys at M$ haven't > managed to do it right yet, and they've been at it to the > tune of 100K man hours > per year for a decade or so. Recording a bitwise image of Well, I haven't got much faith in them to begin with. They could work for 1000 years on a 20 minute job and still mess it up. I'm not saying that it might not actually take that long, just that m$ aren't competent enough to be a good indicator. > what you receive from > the disk may or may not give you all the information you need > to recreate the > files, since you may or may not know how the OS deals with > them. What's more, I was assuming you'd know the filesystem type at the time of the backup. I don't suppose it would be absolutely necessary. You might also recognize a filesystem by magic number/signature, or the like. [snip] > which you write such an image must be an EXACT duplicate of > the one from which > the image was recorded. The second drive may otherwise claim > to be identical > but have a different number of sectors per physical track, > use different mapping > arrangements, etc, and, especially, have different bad > blocks. Since you're Well, "otherwise identical" is dangerous territory at any rate. :) You're right, though, in that depending on the way the software components interact with the drive, one or more of these things might really screw things up. I suppose that would require one to know the internals of each system with which you plan to use this method. > going to send data that goes to where the drive sends it and > not necessarily to > the same physical location from which you got it because the ... which may be ok, depending on how the system interacts with the device in question. Of course, if you find that the system depends on the data being in some physical location, rather than in a logical location, you'd have to correct for that or _just not do it_ ;) [snip] > sent, you may be disappointed with the results because IDE > drives hide too many > details from the end-user. Yep. Tell me about it. [snip] > absolutely for certain, what > the drive does with the data you send it, and what the OS > does to process data > to and from the drive, you're on thin ice. That depends. For instance (This will now get very hypothetical), if the O/S handles data in logical blocks, and doesn't care too much the actual geometry of the drive, you might be ok with not knowing about the device. That is, with the exception of bad blocks. (Really I guess I'm talking about faking a standard interface even when it doesn't exist here) [snip] > all. Since SCSI is well established as to how it operates > its data management, > it yields more hope that you can process an image, though the > vagaries of the OS > are still a limiting factor. On the other hand, as some friends of mine are wont to say: "Neither S in SCSI means standard." > Image recording should work fine with MFM- and RLL-encoded > drives, even on a > track-by-track basis, and those offer some hope that one > could substitute one > sort of drive for another but hte ones which use BOTH CHS and > LBA addressing > won't tolerate the sort of operations to which an > incrementally developed OS > like Windows could create. Can't argue with that. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 7 months

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1771 floppy controller questions

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Yes, I have a few of them. the part is nearly the same as the 372 with some minor tweeks and differences. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 3:27 PM Subject: Re: 1771 floppy controller questions >Yeah ... I wasn't sure about that, though I know they sold their Intel-numbered >version of the WD HDC chips (1010 and 2010). > >Didn't NEC also make a uPD371 that was for small tape drives? I know they made >something on that order, but I never got to play with them. > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Allison" <ajp166(a)bellatlantic.net> >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:56 AM >Subject: Re: 1771 floppy controller questions > > >> Intel never did a 1771 compatable chip. They did do the 8271 that was >> FM only but totally incompatable with the 1771 socket. >> >> The second source that did ship parts is SMC. The other supplier was >> National Semi. >> >> NEC Started with the D372, that was a hard/soft sector single density >> controller that did find it's way into the first version of the IMSAI floppy >> controller. >> >> Allison >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> >> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >> Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:05 PM >> Subject: Re: 1771 floppy controller questions >> >> >> >I don't know right offhand of any second sources, except for Intel, which >> did, >> >IIRC, make a 1771-equivalent/compatible for a time. They went the NEC >> route >> >when MFM became popular, however. >> > >> >WD also made a 1781 which was M2FM capable, and, as some folks will tell >> you, >> >THAT's a hard modulation scheme to support. >> > >> >As I mentioned before, it might be worthwhile to communicate with Tony >> Duell >> >regarding the expansion interface, as he recently admitted he'd actually >> made >> >the model-1 disk interface work as it was designed to work. A lot of >> folks >> >couldn't get reasonable reliability until they bought a third-party >> enhancment >> >for the floppy interface. >> > >> >Dick >> > >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Tothwolf" <tothwolf(a)concentric.net> >> >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >> >Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 8:51 AM >> >Subject: Re: 1771 floppy controller questions >> > >> > >> >> On Tue, 20 Nov 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: >> >> > From: "Tothwolf" <tothwolf(a)concentric.net> >> >> > > On Tue, 20 Nov 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > > > What is it that makes you believe that the 1771 s the problem? >> >> > > >> >> > > Well, I accidentally plugged the chip in backward when >> troubleshooting the >> >> > > floppy interface right after I got it. It turned out that the floppy >> >> > > ribbon was bad, just due to age I guess. I don't think the chip let >> out >> >> > > its magic smoke, but it certainly does not work now ;) >> >> > >> >> > OK ... I can believe you'd reach that conclusion from what you >> describe. >> >I've >> >> > done that on one of those "late nights" on more than one occasion. >> It's >> >> > reasonable to assume the part is toast, given that there are several >> >supplies, >> >> > each of which has been applied to the wrong pins. Too bad ... >> >> >> >> I'm really not too worried about it, since the 1771 does seem to be >> >> available and I have the technical reference book for the expansion >> >> interface. I don't think there are any unusual or proprietary chips used >> >> in the expansion interface with the exception of the floppy controller. >> If >> >> it took out any other logic chips with it, I should be able to replace >> >> those easily. >> >> >> >> It appears that my local vendor may have just assumed the part he has in >> >> stock is a National, since I can't find any references to National ever >> >> manufacturing a 1771, and the -B01 is a WD suffix. >> >> >> >> -Toth >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >

24 years, 7 months

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OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa?

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Ewing [mailto:greg@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz] > Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com>: > > Of course, MAC OS may not be so virus friendly, but I don't know > > about that. > But even then, the virus can't jump *off* the disk onto a previously > clean system without running something from the disk, and that won't > happen unless you explicitly tell it to. If there's some way for that > to happen on Windows, then Windows is definitely more virus-friendly! There's at least one worm that takes advantage of a Quicktime feature (why on earth did they put this in Quicktime?!) that will automatically run some program on a volume when the volume is mounted. Don't remember the name of this "feature," but it is akin to the windows "autorun," and just as bad. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 7 months

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1771 floppy controller questions

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Intel never did a 1771 compatable chip. They did do the 8271 that was FM only but totally incompatable with the 1771 socket. The second source that did ship parts is SMC. The other supplier was National Semi. NEC Started with the D372, that was a hard/soft sector single density controller that did find it's way into the first version of the IMSAI floppy controller. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:05 PM Subject: Re: 1771 floppy controller questions >I don't know right offhand of any second sources, except for Intel, which did, >IIRC, make a 1771-equivalent/compatible for a time. They went the NEC route >when MFM became popular, however. > >WD also made a 1781 which was M2FM capable, and, as some folks will tell you, >THAT's a hard modulation scheme to support. > >As I mentioned before, it might be worthwhile to communicate with Tony Duell >regarding the expansion interface, as he recently admitted he'd actually made >the model-1 disk interface work as it was designed to work. A lot of folks >couldn't get reasonable reliability until they bought a third-party enhancment >for the floppy interface. > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tothwolf" <tothwolf(a)concentric.net> >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 8:51 AM >Subject: Re: 1771 floppy controller questions > > >> On Tue, 20 Nov 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: >> > From: "Tothwolf" <tothwolf(a)concentric.net> >> > > On Tue, 20 Nov 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: >> > > >> > > > What is it that makes you believe that the 1771 s the problem? >> > > >> > > Well, I accidentally plugged the chip in backward when troubleshooting the >> > > floppy interface right after I got it. It turned out that the floppy >> > > ribbon was bad, just due to age I guess. I don't think the chip let out >> > > its magic smoke, but it certainly does not work now ;) >> > >> > OK ... I can believe you'd reach that conclusion from what you describe. >I've >> > done that on one of those "late nights" on more than one occasion. It's >> > reasonable to assume the part is toast, given that there are several >supplies, >> > each of which has been applied to the wrong pins. Too bad ... >> >> I'm really not too worried about it, since the 1771 does seem to be >> available and I have the technical reference book for the expansion >> interface. I don't think there are any unusual or proprietary chips used >> in the expansion interface with the exception of the floppy controller. If >> it took out any other logic chips with it, I should be able to replace >> those easily. >> >> It appears that my local vendor may have just assumed the part he has in >> stock is a National, since I can't find any references to National ever >> manufacturing a 1771, and the -B01 is a WD suffix. >> >> -Toth >> >> >

24 years, 7 months

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radio shack

by Golemancd＠aol.com

am listening to a radio shack conference call from july on aol right now most of what they r talking about is parts sales and how that is there main business pride and joy. pillar of the business . hummm Joe

24 years, 7 months

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OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa?

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > medium, and subsequently writing them back to a physically > identical (not just > logically identical) target, without consideration for Why not just logically identical, then? ... assuming, of course, the same o/s would handle devices which are logically identical in an identical manner. (This may not be a safe assumption) [snip] > The bitwise image transfer from disk=>tape can be done > without knowledge of > either the compression scheme or of the OS/file system used > on it. It does > require, however, that the entire image be recorded so it can > be restored in its > entirety. The result is that you can use a different OS to > do that task though > it's not required, and the penalty is that you have no access > to the file data, > though you could, I guess, go to the trouble of deciphering > the bitwise image > into a logical file system if one originally existed. You > can do that under any > circumstances, but it's a lot of trouble and requires you > know a great deal > about the low-level processes of converting the data on the > orginal drive into > the files comprising it. I think you've just summed up my previous point. That being, of course, that if you can record a bit-by-bit image, you should also be able to interpret this image (with quite a bit of extra work), and find the component files. In fact, I'd add that depending on the amount of extra work you're willing to do, you can likely restore the image in a "logical" fashion to a volume that is completely different from the one on which it originally resided. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 7 months

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Radio Shack abandons components

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Digi-key always seemed to expensive for my tastes -- at least for > everything that I need, Mouser seems a lot less expensive & I can attest > that they have *very* helpful and quite clueful staff, but when you need > that *weird* part, JDR & Jameco seem to keep a lot of older stuff in stock... I love the way Digi-Key kits their parts. That plus, 7805 and 7812 regulators sold by Rat Shack have a tendency to pop quicker when presented with too-great a load... -dq

24 years, 7 months

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Radio Shack abandons components

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Radio Shack has been slowly diminishing the individual parts and goin for > the glamour sales of consumer electronics mostly anymore. Won't be long and > the days of RS/Lafayette/Olson being in the nearby neighborhood strip malls > for those that want to "do it themselves" will be totally gone. Now you gone and done it. I'll be up all night reading my nearly 30-year old Lafayette catalogs tonight... I don't think any of the Olson catalogs survived. We never had a Lafayette store here, but we did have a Tape Centre that merged with Olson... -dq

24 years, 7 months

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panasonic hhc

by Golemancd＠aol.com

i was in a pawn shop a couple of years ago and the guy behind the counter had a calculator type deal on the counter and he just said i could have it. he said someone just left it there. it has a full keyboard with a small lcd and a printer attachment. panasonic hhc anyone know about this . joe

24 years, 7 months

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OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa?

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > drive are to be found in the tape image, I'd submit it would > be a mite tedious. Well, I didn't say it would be easy ;) It's one of those things that is theoretically simple. > physically identical to the one you started with, i.e. same > number of heads, > cylinders, sectors, etc, PHYSICALLY, else things fall apart, > since we don't know > how the drive firmware deals with translating from the > block-level commands the > OS may choose to send it, though it doesn't have to, to the > buffers-full of data > that the drive coughs up. There must be a method of block-by-block access that will give you the sequence of data you need. Otherwise things would have already fallen apart, and disks would be write-only devices. :) It probably helps to think of the filesystem as a data set, rather than a device-dependant entity. The data is the same, up to a point, no matter what you write it to. Of course, whether the amount of translation you'd need to do to find that essential data set is too much work, is arguable.... > potentially, to > deal with the data to be transferred to the newly cleaned > drive in the same way > that this particular OS deals with it. Of course, the OS > doesn't know what > you're doing, and doesn't know how to read the data on the > disk, except as raw > data, dealt with in buffer-fulls, and than only using the > code you've written. I'm not sure I follow your train of thought here. It's early, though. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 7 months

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Update: Hello, and please help with RSX-11M/PDP parts

by csmith＠amdocs.com

Due to popular demand (by pretty much everyone who's answered this post. :) I've gotten the version of RSX, as close as I can manage, and everything else that the system tells me. For those of you who missed it, I'm trying to get this machine to log me in as some privileged user so that I can -- among other things -- back the drive up. The startup sequence on the console port looks like this: 2J5;0H Testing in progress - Please wait 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Starting system DEVICE TT005: NOT IN CONFIGURATION At this point the console port does nothing more, however, on another port at the time, we see: RSX-11M V4.2 BL38D 512.K MAPPED >RED DU:=SY: >RED DU:=LB: >MOV DU:DF370B >@DU:[1,2]STARTUP >* Please enter time and date (HR:MN DD-MMM-YY) [S]: At this point if one enters a time/date, they will be rewarded with a > prompt, and logged in as [10,10]. If you hit ^Z, the exact same thing happens. :) Any more ideas? Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 7 months

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Radio Shack abandons components

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Experimenters: Time to stock up! Nah... Long Live Jameco & Digi-Key! -dq

24 years, 7 months

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FreeTradeZone site moving to subscription-only for older parts

by mark_k＠totalise.co.uk

Hi, Some of you have probably used the PartMiner/FreeTradeZone web site at http://www.freetradezone.com/ to download datasheets for older, discontinued chips. This has been very useful to me. For discontinued products (which I guess is what most of us are interested in), they are moving to a subscription-only system. Subscription cost is a whopping US$299 per month (introductory; the normal cost is supposedly US$375), so future access will only be viable for most people if you need it for your job. I don't know when the change is being made, or if it has happened already. If it hasn't, better download datasheets that you need while you still can. -- Mark

24 years, 7 months

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SCB68430 DMA controller data sheets etc.

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

> >It's available on http:\\www.freetradezone.com . There are > two versions > >of the sheet, D0194930.pdf is the 1988 version, D0191623.pdf is the > >earlier 1996 version. > > Thanks! I was able to find it and a lot of other stuff too. I've just had an email from them indicating that they are about to start charging for *some* of their service. It's not clear whether you will soon have to pay to get access to datasheets for out-of-production parts. Antonio arcarlini(a)iee.org

24 years, 7 months

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OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa?

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Ewing [mailto:greg@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz] > Christopher Smith <csmith(a)amdocs.com>: > > > Finder is the Macintosh shell. Best not to confuse the > users with terms > > like "file manager," "shell," "interface," "front-end," > Those are such dry, boring, Microsoft-sounding names. > Finder is so much cooler! Actually, those "dry" names mostly come from long before bill gates had even thought of writing a bad basic interpreter. > And it's not so much of a misnomer if you think of it > the right way. It lets *you* find things -- i.e. browse > the file system. Also, it finds an appropriate application > to launch for you when you open a document. I don't know if I can agree there. For instance, by allowing you to "browse the file system" and to manage your files, it will let you loose things as easily as find them. Might as well call it the "loser." ;) Now, regarding "finding" an application to run: What it actually does is read the location of the appropriate application >from the desktop file, by looking it up based on a type/creator attribute stored in the files resource fork. I don't think it has to "find" anything for that. > By the way, System 7 and later Finders do have a > "Find..." command that will let you search for files > by name. Took them long enough, didn't it? :) I can agree here. This command really does allow one to "find" things, but it's a small part of the functionality of the program. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 7 months

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OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa?

by edick＠idcomm.com

This was misrouted and returned to me, I know not why or where ... Let's try again ... Dick > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > Sent: 20 November 2001 01:08 > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa? > > > If you're meaning operating on the tape contents, you're talking about weeks > to > months. The bits of a file are scattered around the disk, since it's random > access, albeit in "clusters" or whatever you choose to call them, and in > blocks, > as the data buffer stores them, but unless you KNOW where the directory is > in > the bitwise image of the disk, and unless you know where all the pieces of > the > drive are to be found in the tape image, I'd submit it would be a mite > tedious. > The problem, of course, with image backup, is that the bits have to be > extracted > from the drive at the raw data level, i.e. with controller commands you > normally > don't deal with, and they can't be faithfully restored to a drive that's not > physically identical to the one you started with, i.e. same number of heads, > cylinders, sectors, etc, PHYSICALLY, else things fall apart, since we don't > know > how the drive firmware deals with translating from the block-level commands > the > OS may choose to send it, though it doesn't have to, to the buffers-full of > data > that the drive coughs up. > > Remember, when you restart the system, it has no OS other than what you can > load > from a floppy. IF that's the same, which certainly isn't the case under > WIndows, as what you used to do the backup, then you're able, potentially, > to > deal with the data to be transferred to the newly cleaned drive in the same > way > that this particular OS deals with it. Of course, the OS doesn't know what > you're doing, and doesn't know how to read the data on the disk, except as > raw > data, dealt with in buffer-fulls, and than only using the code you've > written. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christopher Smith" <csmith(a)amdocs.com> > To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 4:00 PM > Subject: RE: OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > > > > > If your recorded "backup" is a bit-for-bit image of the disk contents, > > > transferred to and from tape, there's no interpretation of > > > the contents into > > > files that can take place, is there? > > > > That's an interesting way to phrase this particular question, since the > > contents are already in the form of "files" -- that is, if you ask the set > > of drivers that got them to the disk in the first place. :) > > > > I believe it's possible (though it would be slow) to interpret a > bit-for-bit > > image directly on a tape and extract any given file, along with > attributes, > > etc. In fact, any operation that would be possible on a disk, in this > case, > > could be handled on a tape. The clincher is that it would involve a lot > of > > seek/rewind/seek/etc/etc.. > > > > The underlying O/S need not even know the difference between the disk and > > tape, except to know that the tape is removable (...that's not absolutely > > required), and perhaps that it's incredibly slow. > > > > The worst that would be required is a device abstraction layer or the > like. > > You could write one yourself which would make the tape device "look" like > a > > disk device, for systems which don't have such a thing, and that would be > > enough. > > > > How would you like to be able to mount your backup tape, and use a > > file-manager on it? ;) > > > > > The Microsoft Backup that came with DOS, (a) never really was > > > a backup, but, > > > rather, was just a copy, and (b) never worked together with > > > its "restore" > > > function. Under DOS, copies were adequate, since the context > > > didn't matter. > > > > If you mean that it didn't store attributes, or that sort of thing, you > may > > be right (never paid attention.) On the other hand, you're also right to > > say that it wouldn't particularly matter under MS-DOS. > > > > Regards, > > > > Chris > > > > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > > ' > > > > > > > >

24 years, 7 months

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Eltron 16VAC adapters

by angela＠holybears.com

I would like to get one or more of those adapters if you have any left.

24 years, 7 months

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OT: List features - table of contents?

by rcini＠optonline.net

While scanning the digest this morning (I'm on vacation) I remembered back to a long time ago when the list digest had a table of contents of the messages at the top of the digest. Is this a subscription option or a feature of the list manager software that we can have back? Oh, Sam...email me. I have that DayGlo yellow 8080 you were looking for. Only one made you know :-) Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/

24 years, 7 months

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HP 3000 No More (legacy)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Noteably the Bridgeport company consumed some 100,000 LSI-11 card sets for their NC systems. Later I think Falcon(T11) cards were also used and I've seena fair number of PDP-8s mated to the larger vertical mills. Thats not even close to exhaustive list. Other cpus (HP, Cincinatti Millichron, Z80 based, 6800 and 6502 as well). Allison -----Original Message----- From: Ian Koller <vze2mnvr(a)verizon.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 4:46 AM Subject: Re: HP 3000 No More (legacy) > > >ajp166 wrote: >> For those CNC tools with PDP-8 or PDP11s running them > >What mfg. model CNC machines run on PDP's? > > > >ajp166 wrote: >> >> From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> >> >> >On November 17, Stan Sieler wrote: >> >> PA-RISC is dead/dying ... HP has said so. IA-64 killed it. >> > >> > [knee-jerk reaction to a pet peeve follows] >> > >> > Well, as long as "dead" can be defined as "salespeople don't want to >> >sell you a new one". For me, it can't. I can pick up the phone and >> >buy PDP8 equipment from a commercial vendor. How long ago was THAT >> >architecture discontinued? >> > >> > For me, something is "dead" (or "obsolete" or whatever you want to >> >call it) when it can no longer do its job adequately and >> >> Dead to me is broken. Obsolete is when it cant forfill the intesded task >> or when it has reached a level of repair difficulty where replacement is >> an option. For those CNC tools with PDP-8 or PDP11s running them >> that number is still over $50,000 to upgrade and 100s of thousands of >> dollars to replace. In the face of that the PDP-8 that still makes good >> flanges is cheap at $2000 for a working cold spare. >> >> For example I was given three working 386(mono) and 486(color) laptops >> as too weak to be useful. Fully working machines with Xircom network >> adaptors and all! >> >> Allison >

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PDP-8 backplane -- was Re: PDP-8 case

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Omnibus dones not have a unibus/qbus grant chain. the general organisation is anywhere it fits generally works save for cards that have over the top connections. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 3:52 AM Subject: PDP-8 backplane -- was Re: PDP-8 case >On Nov 20, 0:53, Tony Duell wrote: >> Since you can put options with top connectors anywhere in the backplane, >> there would seem to be little point in having special foam over the front >> slots only. > >That reminds me... supplementary question: The machine had gaps between >some of the cards. It's over 20 years since I used a PDP-8 for real, and >in those days I wasn't usually allowed at the innards. The gaps don't >matter, do they? There's no grant chain like in a Unibus, AFAIR. The >-8/E is an Omnibus machine, of course. > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York >

24 years, 7 months

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OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> WDEF could do this, but it was rendered dead by System 7 (it infected the > System 6 and earlier desktop database, so when a disk was inserted, it > could spread to any uninfected desktop databases) This caused me much grief, as I had a customized WDEF routine I'd edit into every System file; it was Andy's source, modified to do the Lisa-styled titlebar and widgets. But anti-virus software of the day gave false positives for my WDEF. -dq

24 years, 7 months

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OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa?

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>They both have Claris Works loaded, but since >there's no CD and no doc, I have to say it's got to be flushed. NO NO NO NO... Claris Works shipped with EVERY performa... but since it was an Apple product, it was tied into that damn Backup program, and no install disks were supplied. (There should be a simple manual, but the previous owners may have lost it). Don't flush it, it is legal (and again, I can supply you with a replacement copy if need be, it came with Claris Works version 2.1) >One has a Stylewriter II and the other has a Color >Stylewriter 2400, not that I know what the differences are. The 2400 is the better of the two. Check Apple's web site for specs. The goofy catch with the 2400 is, it has no direct printer driver, you need to use the driver for the 2500 (go figure) > They have >essentially useless (2400 Baud) GV Teleport Bronze modems, which I guess I'll >upgrade in order to make the system useful for internet browsing If you are dumping the GV Bronze modems, I would be interested in aquiring them from you. They are FANTASTIC fax modems, so I use them on old Mac SE's as fax stations. >I'm still in the throes of figuring out how, exactly to equip these things >with >"legal" software Accordng to Apple, the 630CD comes with a Restore CD. Run that, and you will get all the shipped "legal" software the machine came with. The 630CD shipped with the following software: Performa 630CD - M3424LL/A ? ? ? ? ? Includes ClarisWorks 2.1, American ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Heritage Dictionary 3rd Edition, Quicken ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?4, MacLink Translators, Mac Gallery Clip ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Art, Click Art Performa Collection, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?KidWorks 2, Thinkin' Things, The Writing ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Center, Spectre Challenger, Spin Doctor ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Lite, TelePort Fax Send, At Ease 2.0, PC ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Exchange, and eWorld. It also orginally shipped with System 7.1, but 7.5.5 is now free off Apple's web site, so you can upgrade to it without legal fear. If you don't have the restore CD, let me know, I can look and see if I have one. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 7 months

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Altair32 Emulator - StarTrek Runs!

by rcini＠optonline.net

Hello, all: Another minor success. With the help of Mike Dogas, I was able to get Altair BASIC 4.0 (8K BASIC) running in the emulator. With that comes support for strings. With strings, Super StarTrek. Whoo, hoo! Thanks Mike! Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/

24 years, 7 months

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Intel C8080A chip brings $565 on EBAY

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: John Galt <gmphillips(a)earthlink.net> >There's a rather small community of chip collectors. > >However, there are a few collectors who have been >collecting for over 10 years now who have put togather >pretty vast collections of literally thousands of chips. My only concern is they may be collecting junk, IE: chips that look good, may be rare but are DEAD/useless electronically. >It would be the same as if suddenly someone found >two Intelec bit slice 3002 computers dated 1975 in a closet or something. >Sure, there might could be more, but if they were common, you guys would >have already seen one. These were quite common and the basic chipset on an experimentors board was around $495 in 1977. Most were used then relagated to the engineering junk box. So I'd presume when you say rare, your referring to actively traded survivors as SBC colltors like me may already have one (not yet!). >As far as the color, chip collectors refer to that color >chip as "purple". If you look at it next to a normal >"gray" CerDIP, you can see the difference. Besides, >it would not have mattered had it been black. The fact >is, it's not the white/gold color of a normal Intel >C8080A. The printing on the chip is also somewhat different. My guess is >it's a late run C8080A that was It's very late run ceramic. Ceramic for chip substrates only comes from a few vendors one being a beer maker in the rockies a few in the far east and Europe. It was part of the reason why ceramic parts were more expensive and also a near must if the part was required to pass tests for hermetic sealing (military, space or other high stress apps). Ceramic aging/dating: Starting with the 1960s ceramic was white. early White examples were early military Flatpacks(RTL/DTL/TTL) 1101, 1103 ram 1702 eprom first brown parts I'd seen were 2708s brown (light) later dark brown Gray Gray with brownish cast Gray with purplish cast Those were the most common. Eproms were generaltionally in the common ceramic of the time. Allison

24 years, 7 months

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OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa?

by Joanne.Renardson＠grangewintringham.com

This came to me in error. Regards, Jo. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] Sent: 20 November 2001 01:08 To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa? If you're meaning operating on the tape contents, you're talking about weeks to months. The bits of a file are scattered around the disk, since it's random access, albeit in "clusters" or whatever you choose to call them, and in blocks, as the data buffer stores them, but unless you KNOW where the directory is in the bitwise image of the disk, and unless you know where all the pieces of the drive are to be found in the tape image, I'd submit it would be a mite tedious. The problem, of course, with image backup, is that the bits have to be extracted >from the drive at the raw data level, i.e. with controller commands you normally don't deal with, and they can't be faithfully restored to a drive that's not physically identical to the one you started with, i.e. same number of heads, cylinders, sectors, etc, PHYSICALLY, else things fall apart, since we don't know how the drive firmware deals with translating from the block-level commands the OS may choose to send it, though it doesn't have to, to the buffers-full of data that the drive coughs up. Remember, when you restart the system, it has no OS other than what you can load >from a floppy. IF that's the same, which certainly isn't the case under WIndows, as what you used to do the backup, then you're able, potentially, to deal with the data to be transferred to the newly cleaned drive in the same way that this particular OS deals with it. Of course, the OS doesn't know what you're doing, and doesn't know how to read the data on the disk, except as raw data, dealt with in buffer-fulls, and than only using the code you've written. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Smith" <csmith(a)amdocs.com> To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 4:00 PM Subject: RE: OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa? > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > > > If your recorded "backup" is a bit-for-bit image of the disk contents, > > transferred to and from tape, there's no interpretation of > > the contents into > > files that can take place, is there? > > That's an interesting way to phrase this particular question, since the > contents are already in the form of "files" -- that is, if you ask the set > of drivers that got them to the disk in the first place. :) > > I believe it's possible (though it would be slow) to interpret a bit-for-bit > image directly on a tape and extract any given file, along with attributes, > etc. In fact, any operation that would be possible on a disk, in this case, > could be handled on a tape. The clincher is that it would involve a lot of > seek/rewind/seek/etc/etc.. > > The underlying O/S need not even know the difference between the disk and > tape, except to know that the tape is removable (...that's not absolutely > required), and perhaps that it's incredibly slow. > > The worst that would be required is a device abstraction layer or the like. > You could write one yourself which would make the tape device "look" like a > disk device, for systems which don't have such a thing, and that would be > enough. > > How would you like to be able to mount your backup tape, and use a > file-manager on it? ;) > > > The Microsoft Backup that came with DOS, (a) never really was > > a backup, but, > > rather, was just a copy, and (b) never worked together with > > its "restore" > > function. Under DOS, copies were adequate, since the context > > didn't matter. > > If you mean that it didn't store attributes, or that sort of thing, you may > be right (never paid attention.) On the other hand, you're also right to > say that it wouldn't particularly matter under MS-DOS. > > Regards, > > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > >

24 years, 7 months

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HP 3000 No More (legacy)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> >On November 17, Stan Sieler wrote: >> PA-RISC is dead/dying ... HP has said so. IA-64 killed it. > > [knee-jerk reaction to a pet peeve follows] > > Well, as long as "dead" can be defined as "salespeople don't want to >sell you a new one". For me, it can't. I can pick up the phone and >buy PDP8 equipment from a commercial vendor. How long ago was THAT >architecture discontinued? > > For me, something is "dead" (or "obsolete" or whatever you want to >call it) when it can no longer do its job adequately and Dead to me is broken. Obsolete is when it cant forfill the intesded task or when it has reached a level of repair difficulty where replacement is an option. For those CNC tools with PDP-8 or PDP11s running them that number is still over $50,000 to upgrade and 100s of thousands of dollars to replace. In the face of that the PDP-8 that still makes good flanges is cheap at $2000 for a working cold spare. For example I was given three working 386(mono) and 486(color) laptops as too weak to be useful. Fully working machines with Xircom network adaptors and all! Allison

24 years, 7 months

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Dead Intel MDS controller board

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 19, 20:52, Dave Mabry wrote: > I have that manual (98-422A) and that is the correct one for the > SBC-202. I think Intel just gave the 202 name to that board set when it > was bought for integration into an application. > > I am anxious to try to troubleshoot this, but I'm not sure how to go > about it. [...] > FWIW, this seems to be the exact failure mode I've seen in every one > I've had fail. > Note to list: Should we take this private or do you all want to see it? I'd say "let's see it". You might get more than onme opinion, and in any case if the fault is relatively common, there's a good chance someone else can make use of the information later. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 7 months

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PDP-8 case

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 19, 18:35, Richard Erlacher wrote: > From: "Greg Ewing" <greg(a)cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> > > I think so-called "conductive" foam actually has quite > > a high resistance. If that's so, it would be unlikely > > to upset any ordinary logic circuit. > ISTR something about megohms per linear inch... > I doubt that will bother PDP-8 circuits much. Resistivity is normally measured "per square" (if it's linear, how wide should the strip be?) And this stuff is about 25 megohms per square, according to my measurements. So, no, I don't see how it could bother 7400 TTL. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 7 months

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PDP-8 case

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 20, 0:53, Tony Duell wrote: > > I've been cleaning up my recently-acquired PDP-8/E, and I've had to remove > > the plastic foam from the inside of the lid, which was fairly horrible. > > Yes, that's a very common problem... Makes a right mess on a the backplane... This hadn't reached the completely crumbly stage, but it did smell of cat :-( > I have never seen conductive foam used on PDP8/e machines. There's > nothing particularly static-sensitive in there anyway (the CPU is all > fairly large-junction bipolar chips (TTL, etc). Mine just had the normal > brown foam throughout. > > Since you can put options with top connectors anywhere in the backplane, > there would seem to be little point in having special foam over the front > slots only. > > But the leakage on conducive foam is not that high, and I doubt that > using it would cause many problems (TTL inputs are fairly low impedance). > It might have an effect if used over core memory units, but actually I > doubt it. I didn't really think it would make much difference, but I can clearly see the impression made by the connectors for the core stack, which is reputedly not working. The machine had modern semiconductor memory in it when I got it -- the 1995 board I mentioned in another post -- and I've not tried the core for myself yet. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 7 months

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sought: SunPC 3.1b software

by red＠bears.org

I just found a SunPC Accelerator DX in a box of junk at a recycler's. Does anybody have a copy of SunPC 3.1b so I can try to use this on my Solaris 1.1.2 box? Supposedly it was distributed on CD; a disc image or a copy of its contents would be more than sufficient. TIA ok r.

24 years, 7 months

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What is a RL02K-DC?

by kurok002＠tc.umn.edu

I recently found a RL02K-DC cartridge in storage here at work. I was just curious to know if they are worth anything today? Are they still being used?? -- University of Minnesota Cancer Center 590 CCRB MMC 494 420 Delaware Street S.E. Minneapolis,MN 55455 E-mail:kurok002@tc.umn.edu Phone: (612)626-4323 Fax:(612)624-3913

24 years, 7 months

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H7140 PDP 11/24 Power Supply Advice

by cube1＠home.com

I have had a PDP-11/24 for some years, working just fine (last time I had it on was about last May). Yesterday it decided not to work. Looks like the H7140 supply. The +300V on the voltage doubler is there, but the +13V in the Bias/Interface board reads about +7V. I suspect this is central to the problem. (The +12V Bias is also reading about +7V). When I turn the console power switch, I can hear the contactor in the power control unit in the rack, so I don't think it is the switch itself. When I flip the breaker on, I can hear a "chirp" as though an oscillator starts up. If I flip the breaker off, then about 10s later I can hear the chirp of an oscillator shutting down. Any words of advice? Does anyone have a technical description of the H7140? I have schematics (and can read them at the component level), but power supplies are hardly my strong point -- it would be useful to have some description of just how this animal goes thru a power up sequence. Plus, blind diagnosis will be slow -- there aren't any test points, and one needs to make sure the +300V from the doubler has been bled off before yanking cards to solder test tails at strategic points. It would be helpful if someone could give me some guidance so I knew more about how this thing works. Jay Jaeger --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1(a)home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection

24 years, 7 months

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Qbus & Unibus cards avalable

by Innfogra＠aol.com

I have the following Qbus & Unibus card that I want to offer to the list first before offering them on ebay. Please contact me off list at: whoagiii(a)aol.com Dilog MQ696 - This is a current 22 bit Disk Controller Qbus card. It is a 20 MHz ESDI controller for two drives. It also supports two SA450 floppy drives. It supports RX33/50s and MSCP. It is a nice looking design. M5903 Drive Transceiver M7607AP/AH MS630A 1 Meg MicroVAX II Memory - Have 2 M7946 RXV11 LSI11 RX01 Controller M7940 Serial Line Unit M7941 DRV11 16 bit Parallel Line Unit M8029 RXV21 LSI11 RX02 Controller M8186 Rev 202 D0 11/23 CPU M8958 TM78 Translator Unibus - Tape? M9202 Unibus Connector Inverted have 2 M9400 YE LSI11 Ref Boot Cable Conn Netcom NDLV-11 700 0055 MDB DRV11C Program I/O module Plessey 705113-100B Looks like a three serial port card Sandwich board set which occupies 2 sets of slots Andromeda Systems MSI11-2 2 serial port card handwritten serial numbers Have 2 Andromeda Systems MSI11 4 serial port card Rubber stamp SN 304 Codar Tech Has three batteries so I think it has clock functions. There is a 34 pin connector and a 10 pin jumper block? Digital Pathways TCU - 50 Real Time Clock card settable to normal or leap year Address-76077X Don't know its 2000 compatibility. Feel free to ask questions, preferably off list. I have pictures if needed. Paxton Astoria, OR

24 years, 7 months

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Slightly OT: Atari 2600s game collecting on "Antiques Road Show" on PBS TV

by claudew＠videotron.ca

Its not computer collecting on TV but very close... I tune in to PBS antiques road show (that TV show that goes around US and Canada towns and people bring their antiques to get them evaluated and info on them...) tonight and there was a short (2 mins?) segment on Atari 2600 cart collecting and they showed some examples of sought after carts...and some "values"...explaining this was very "hot collectibles" Do they know about computer collecting also? Claude http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector

24 years, 7 months

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Intel C8080A chip brings $565 on EBAY

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

That only applied to some of the darker ceramics and early parts were the white. They still had to remove or reduce the gold used in the bond wire and lead frames even for plastic. What drove the price of ceramic way up is ram and cpu prodution rates really jumped up from 1978 to 1984 and the production of ceramic packages could not keep pace. Plastic was always used for ram, and lower in cost. The problem was the early gray silicone plastics were far from hermetic. There would be several generations of the black stuff in an attempt to make the plastic less absorptive of moisture while trying better methods of passivating the die. Then there was the matter of disapating the heat. Even as late as 1984 the failure rates for the D416/4116 dynamic and 2114 and 2167 static parts was noteably higher for plastic than ceramic. I use those cases as they were mature parts by then and still plastic was viewed as less reliable though far lower in cost. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Bob Shannon <bshannon(a)tiac.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Monday, November 19, 2001 10:22 PM Subject: Re: Intel C8080A chip brings $565 on EBAY >In my experiance, very early chips used a purple ceramic with a high thorium >content causing the distinctive color. Unfortunatley, this thorium emits low >level >particles that cause soft errors, which became apparent in the early days of DRAM. > >This drove a change in ceramic processing and costs, pointing the way towards >todays plastic packages. > >Sellam Ismail wrote: > >> On Mon, 19 Nov 2001, John Galt wrote: >> >> > As far as the color, chip collectors refer to that color chip as >> > "purple". If you look at it next to a normal "gray" CerDIP, you can >> > see the difference. Besides, it would not have mattered had it been >> > black. The fact is, it's not the white/gold color of a normal Intel >> > C8080A. The printing on the chip is also somewhat different. My >> > guess is it's a late run C8080A that was put in the same package they >> > used for some of the later C8085AH's. >> >> My questions is: why does this matter? Will researchers 50 years from now >> find the Purple one useful for any sort of study? What makes the Purple >> one special beyond just being a pretty if not questionable shade of >> purple? >> >> Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- >> International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org >

24 years, 7 months

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Slightly OT: Atari 2600s game collecting on "Antiques Road Show" on PBS TV

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>I tune in to PBS antiques road show (that TV show that goes around US and >Canada towns and people bring their antiques to get them evaluated and info >on them...) tonight and there was a short (2 mins?) segment on Atari 2600 >cart collecting and they showed some examples of sought after carts...and >some "values"...explaining this was very "hot collectibles" And what were some of the wanted carts? Not that I will ever part with any of mine, but it is always nice to know if you have something of monitary value (although, in my case, most of it will be "I had that!", since a "friend" walked off with most of my good ones years ago... kind of like all the first series star wars action figures I blew up with firecrackers in my youth) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 7 months

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OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa?

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>I can't think of a way for a virus to jump onto a disk on a Mac simply >by the disk being there, without any virus-infected program >running. Unless a virus has attacked the Finder or the OS itself, >which is a possibility, I suppose. WDEF could do this, but it was rendered dead by System 7 (it infected the System 6 and earlier desktop database, so when a disk was inserted, it could spread to any uninfected desktop databases) >But even then, the virus can't jump *off* the disk onto a previously >clean system without running something from the disk, and that won't >happen unless you explicitly tell it to. If there's some way for that >to happen on Windows, then Windows is definitely more virus-friendly! Auto-Start worms, but then, you are really sort of running something off the disk (the worm), and these can be stopped by turning off the auto run on insert in the QuickTime control panel. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 7 months

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Slightly OT: Atari 2600s game collecting on "Antiques Road Show" on PBS TV

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In Oregon it is on in 40 minutes, at 8:00 PM PBS. I look forward to it. Paxton Astoria, OR

24 years, 7 months

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OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa?

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>Of course, MAC OS may not be so virus friendly, but I don't know about that. >The "spare" HD would have to be a SCSI drive, right? How does the MAC go >about >recognizing a valid SCSI device? What has to be done to a JAZ platter to >make >it (the MAC) recognize it. The MacOS is technically no more or less virus friendly than Windows. You just don't have some of the obvious security flaws (like VBScript). But the main reason viri aren't as rampant on the mac as they are on the PC is simply, if you are going to write a virus you are probably trying to hit as many computers as possible... so why write for a 5% market share when you can write for a 90% market share. As for recognizing SCSI devices. The Mac will recognize that a device is connected (if you have some kind of a scsi probe, you can see that the mac knows it is there), but depending on the device, it may or may not be usable without additional software. In the case of tape drives, you need software that will talk to them (like retrospect), Zip and Jaz drives have a small extension that will let the OS see them and treat them like high capacity floppy drives (and I think that extension may have been rolled into OS 9.x but I'm not positive). CDs are similar, they have a driver with the OS, (although that driver tends to only want to support Apple approved CDs, so there are 3rd party drivers like FWB's CD Toolkit, and Toast's CD Reader). Hard Drive support is built into the OS (low level formating and partitioning may need 3rd party software if it isn't an "Apple" drive). Most everything else needs 3rd party software (like scanners, SCSI->Ethernet adaptors, etc.), but usually, the software/drivers are free, and will come with the device (like my Umax scanner software is available free from Umax's web site... but it only works with their scanners) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 7 months

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Dead Intel MDS controller board

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 11/19/01 6:01:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, dmabry(a)mich.com writes: > Note to list: Should we take this private or do you all want to see it? > Please keep it on the list. I find it very interesting. Now if I could find my Multibus 1 cards I could follow along. I think I have a 202 somewhere in there. Paxton Astoria, OR

24 years, 7 months

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Nortel yard sale

by KenzieM＠sympatico.ca

I don't know how much classic stuff there may be but it anyone is interested: > > Anyone know about this: > > > > Item in Canadian Business magazine, November 26, 2001, p. 11. > > > > "If you like poking around garage sales, you won't wanna miss this. On Nov. > > 28 and 29 in Ottawa, Nortel will hold the first of a series of sales to try > > to raise $100 million to offset some of the billions lost in the past year. > > Globally, it hopes to unload more than 20,000 pieces of used equipment, some > > for less than 20% of original cost."

24 years, 7 months

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